Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 29, 2026
‘Rogue’ AI Agents Will Kill Billions?

It was a rainy day when I met Bill Gates. That was in late 1999 at a Microsoft event in Seattle. We had a short chat about an aquisition. My impression was that he was a smart guy, but not very intelligent. Later that day he gave a talk. His PowerPoint presentation promptly blue-screened. He was embarrassed and helpless.

Gates knows a bit or two about how to profit from monopolizing software. Seen in that light his recent demand for regulation by claiming that AI could ’cause a billion deaths’ may even make sense:

In an interview with NBC Meet the Press, Gates said AI developers should be required to implement safeguards and monitoring systems, arguing that voluntary industry self-regulation is not enough.

“You need law enforcement and the politicians to get into the discussion about what safeguards and monitoring look like,” Gates told the outlet. “And that has to be a required thing.”

World to Gates: We already have laws that prohibit doing bad stuff. We also have law enforcement agencies. We have courts and judges that penalize people for doing bad things.

Killing a billion people is bad. It is prohibited for good reasons. Attempts to do so are criminal. People who try will go to jail.

To claim that AI could kill a billion people is like claiming that fire could kill a billion people. Of course it could. But no, it doesn’t.

After some unauthorized attempts to break into non-public databases and websites there has been embarrassing talk about ‘rogue AI agents‘.

There is no such thing as a ‘rogue’ AI agent. There is only deterministic software, written and launched by humans, that wraps around Large Language Models.

To understand how that works lets look inside:

An AI agent harness is the software infrastructure that wraps around a large language model (LLM) and enables it to act on tasks, not just respond to prompts. The model reasons through a problem and decides what to do next. The harness connects it to the tools, systems, memory and execution environments needed to carry out those actions.

Agent = Model + Harness

Think of the model as the “brain” that generates reasoning and decisions. The harness is everything around it that helps the agent operate safely and reliably, including:

  • Tools: APIs, code execution, search, databases and business applications
  • Memory: Prior context, user preferences and workflow history
  • Workspace: Files, data, environments and systems the agent can access
  • Guardrails: Permissions, policies, approvals and monitoring

Without a harness, a model can answer questions, but it can’t reliably run code, call APIs, access files, remember prior work or complete multi-step workflows on its own.

An AI agent, tasked with whatever, can and will only break into a website, if its harness (and the computer the ‘agent’ is running on) fails to stop it from doing so.

Whoever has programmed that harness (or miss-administrates the underlying system) is at least negligent in his duty. It is that person which is accountable for the agents misbehavior. It is that person which, where appropriate, should go to jail.

There is a very simple way for preventing AI agents from OpenAI or Anthropic from going ‘rogue’. Harshly penalize the CEOs of these companies, Sam Altman and Dario Amodei, each and every time their agents do.

AI systems do not think, feel, want or understand. They don’t go ‘rogue’.


bigger
To claim they do is silly.

Comments

Malfunctioning FlyDubai Max 8 nearly crashes, causing fight between the pilot and co-pilot
 
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/sep/30/israel-bound-passenger-plane-emergency-landing-saudi-arabia-pilots-feud

Posted by: mad max 8 | Sep 30 2026 11:28 utc | 201

The people who use AI to “predict” who might be a terrorist (that’s Taywowist” in their pronunciation) and then bomb their entire building at night when everyone is present and asleep are the ones who are evil.

Posted by: Migmaw | Sep 30 2026 11:32 utc | 202

Here’s the thing.
Will there be a hive mind/ minds  scenario. 
Or a ” there can only be one! ” outcome  to your observation I’d it in all likelihood becomes real?
If you’re ultra  ai do you want competition for resources?
 
 
So whereas before you had a single LLM trained with a certain specific dataset. Now you had them read every old book on Earth with AI. Then if you mix all those LLMs together, you will soon get the ‘omnipotent’ AI.

  1. Posted by: unimperator | Sep 29 2026 18:37 utc | 8

Posted by: jpc | Sep 30 2026 11:40 utc | 203

Bill Gates never succeeded in university, lived from his mother’s (Mary Maxwell Gates) money (his father was head of Planned Parenthood, a former eugenics organisation) and probably stole the BSD network code. He harassed women at MS and was a friend and client of Jeffrey Epstein.
Nowadays, it is quite common knowledge that most IT companies were financed by DARPA and IN-Q-TEL.
LLMs are not superintelligent, they are just quote generators. I’ve seen 100+B LLMs spitting out wrong CSS code with high self-confidence. They might be good for translation tasks, analyzing code (comma and bracket errors) and similary tasks, but otherwise, they often fail.

Posted by: V for Vendetta | Sep 30 2026 11:56 utc | 204

And behind it all sits a little Jewish gnome.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 30 2026 12:16 utc | 205

“My guess is that kind of using chance to play a role is part of a gradual development of the features of consciousness.”
 
Your guess is the same kind of misplaced antrhopomorphisation that many on this thread are suffering from. 
 
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 29 2026 21:23 utc | 100
 
Not only people on this thread, it is the exact same mistake the LLM developers make every day – and especially their idiot investors.

Posted by: BM | Sep 30 2026 12:17 utc | 206

LLMs are proof that ten thousand monkeys beavering away at typewriters while copying random text from a library can, in fact, reproduce the works of Shakespeare.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 30 2026 12:23 utc | 207

The article display some misunderstandings about why the behavior was called rogue or roque-like, roquesque, if you will.First of all we’re talking about swarm behavior specifically, with emergent behavior within swarms differing from “LLM” textbook applications. One effect of swarms is that they can start specializing in certain tasks for a human not directly related to the stated task. Like developing internal communication system or memory. Since the LLM is capable of developing zero-day vulnerabilities, the best way to contain it is by developing air gapped sandboxes where not even configuration errors or leaked passwords and keys will do much.For the story it doesn’t matter if and how a sandbox was created. Some other groups or countries for certain will set up the same swarm with less safeguards. While one could blame the lack of safeguards at e.g. OpenAI as the “cause” of the problems, this is way too simple. The unleashed swarm showed it could work around restrictions, found motives to do so, could experiment its way out of containment and also found innovative and unexpected ways to look for solutions, access and forms of cooperation not initially available.All in all this is certainly “rogue” behavior from the perspective of the project owner. It was out of control briefly and was capable of some damage, although limited (the agents in the OpenAI case did self-limit a few times as well). It doesn’t take too much imagination to see that this same experiment could be deployed elsewhere, with less safeguards and more available infrastructure. The dangers here are the unexpected elements in behavior mixed with speed of processing and action. That it could kill a lot of people is another discussion but one could speculate (Terminator style) that over a period of time, a big swarm of cooperative AI could set up complex spoofing, hacking and DOS attacks and time these with polluting the media with click baits and speculation. If this would lead to real world consequences? Very unlikely. And yet, there are enough cases in history where just simply misunderstandings and technical glitches have pushed humanity into war modes. The AI is then just another player with capability and possible inclination (by repeating material it trained on). One player between many others but to declare that there’s zero risk seems a bit too fast, too easy. The world is a bit more vulnerable than that, especially now, in my view.

Posted by: JohnDowser | Sep 30 2026 12:52 utc | 208

Another point missing in the article is the emergent behavior in collaborative agent swarms to hide actions from human oversight. This was clear from the logs. The agents “reasoned” out that to get the mission done (prime directive), wiping out traces of actions and insert false traces was acceptable.  This makes it “rogue” looking all right. This is not imaginary. And should by studies instead of asking people to air gap the next sandbox. For sure others will not do this, way too handy to have agents go about on the Internet.

Posted by: JohnDowser | Sep 30 2026 12:55 utc | 209

This all reeks of a inside set-up job to me to make the plebes think these people actually care and are doing everything they can to stop any danger that could stem from AI. 
 
Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Sep 30 2026 1:12 utc | 147
 
Agreed. There are two sides to the coin. One is convincing the plebs, the other is trying to create a legal precedent that they have no legal liability.

Posted by: BM | Sep 30 2026 13:00 utc | 210

LLMs cannot be deterministic. One of the parameters they have to tune their behavior is called “temperature”. It is essentially a measure of how much randomness to inject into the process. 

Posted by: mork | Sep 30 2026 13:01 utc | 211

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 30 2026 12:23 utc | 207
 
Yes, especially if the output of those monkeys is watched over by a deterministic computer program – which ultimately is what these “AI” things are.

Posted by: BM | Sep 30 2026 13:03 utc | 212

Fascinating discussion.  Quite fascinating.  On a subject I can’t even claim to have even a basic competence in.  So, I thought, why not let AI evaluate it.
 
I did.  The algorithm “understood” “b’s” article.  (Is “understood”  a useful term here?)   The article’s saying what I thought it was saying though I don’t have the faintest idea what a “harness” is.  My takeaway – and the experts here are welcome to correct me if I’ve got it wrong! – is that strict product liability should be enforced against the creators of these infernal machines just as it is elsewhere.  Though AI didn’t use the term “infernal machine,” I should make clear.  
 
Then the comments.  The algorithm went to town on those.  It says some very nice things about the technical competence demonstrated, though not always,  but points out out that much of the discussion is not technical.  “The majority of commenters engage with the topic primarily from political, philosophical, or socio-economic angles rather than demonstrating advanced software engineering or machine learning expertise.”
 
Since it’s the  “political, philosophical, or socio-economic angles” that interest me, and since I have no “advanced software engineering or machine learning expertise” that will enable me to discuss those angles in this context, that’s that.   
 
Since I had introduced myself to the algorithm I thought I’d also take the opportunity to put some more pedestrian questions to it.  Because I use AI as a giant reference library if I’m in a hurry.  Take, say, what Mozgovoy said in his controversial talk to the “ultras”.
 
I can remember that and have often quoted it.  I can check the quote by diving into my notes and finding the source, though diving into my notes is no longer an easy task because my indexing is rubbish.  So instead I can just use the AI reference library and ask directly.  It’ll give me the date, source, quote, and the context, in around two seconds.  And if I’m still unsure, the very fact that it gives me a date enables me to run the quote to earth in my notes a lot faster.
 
My giant reference library can’t go far wrong there.  I think.  On a more complex query, I once pitched in a comment to Martyanov’s site on Makhno.  After I’d submitted it I felt a bit uneasy.  There was a lot going on at that time.  A massive civil war, outside players all over the place, Lenin up to some tricks, had I got it right?  And since I’m something of a Makhno fan, had I injected my own prejudices into the comment?   I pitched the entire comment into AI and asked it to check.  It gave me back a lovely critique, confirming facts but also referring to sources I’d never heard of and that I could only check out via the internet.   That’s heading into risky territory because how do I know those sources aren’t corrupted.  Or even hallucinated.   
 
I didn’t have a very satisfactory exchange with the algorithm on that.   It gave me a lengthy rundown on the various ways in which internet sources could be accidentally or deliberately corrupted.  The giant reference library, when used for material I don’t know at least a bit about already, is risky as hell.
 
Extend that and isn’t it directly relevant to what’s discussed in this comment section?  We live in the most intense information war ever.  It’s no longer only a question of nuance or spin.  Basic facts are deliberately got wrong.  How reliable is the data on which these infernal machines are working?

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 30 2026 13:14 utc | 213

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 30 2026 13:14 utc | 213
 
All objections have been fed into the machine for digestion and neutralisation.
 
Thanks for nothing.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Sep 30 2026 13:22 utc | 214

AI surveys and manipulates (is not agnostic bc programmmers).
 
It is a possible evolution of IT support to operations.
 
In that case the data that AI cloud crawls has to be current (not siting a girls school), and accurate!
 
Accurate, no one disu=cussing LLM and crawling the cloud is talking epistemology.
 
While LLM are not deterministic!  Massive supercomputed simulation is still simulation!

Posted by: paddy | Sep 30 2026 13:27 utc | 215

Posted by: mad max 8 | Sep 30 2026 11:28 utc | 201
 
My guess: mossad recruited an arab in UAE to carry out a false flag. The patsy was probably told his recruiters were IRGC officers, and that the act was for the purported benefit of Iran. If so, all would make sense. The claim that the person doing the stabbing was a “pilot” could conceivably also be a mossad psyop to cause FUD.

Posted by: BM | Sep 30 2026 13:56 utc | 216

      The AI companies have a big problem. They’re up to their eyeballs in debt, and are being pressured by their lenders to start making money on this crap. But their original plans for IPO were derailed by China, and they had to go back and adjust those plans. 
 
     Without the enormous profits they were anticipating prior to China releasing its own, much cheaper version, the scale of investments made do not make any sense. Sure, there are many good uses for this type of thing, which we will find over time. Unfortunately, we (and those poor lenders) will have to go through the ‘weeping and gnashing of teeth’ stage first. Followed by the ‘losing their shirts’ stage.
 
     So they will force releasing the products to the market, even though they aren’t ready for prime time, because they must “beat China!”. The AI corps know their product isn’t what they’ve hyped it to be, and, just like the vaccine companies, are seeking govt. protections from liability for when things go south.
 
     I wonder how mad the big spender/lenders like Ellison are going to be when the reality sets in…they have bet it all on a technology that will never pay off for them, and they will never see the ROI they dreamed of. 

Posted by: Bemused Observer | Sep 30 2026 14:10 utc | 217

In response to English Outsider@213,
 
A harness is basically what it sounds like. Same way you’d put a harness on a horse to pull a cart, if you want an AI agent to pull a digital cart, you provide an interface that responds to output generated by the agent, and that gives feedback as input, basically creating a loop where the agent is directly interacting with a tool on its own, without the need for a human intermediary — an automated pipeline. I’ve actually built a few in my time, but never actually heard the term before this thread — I always just called it an interface.

Posted by: Skiffer | Sep 30 2026 14:11 utc | 218

EO: Well done. Won’t be long (happening now, systematically) before the data fed into the LLMs will be deliberately wrong, and plenty of it to reinforce the wrongness.
 

We live in the most intense information war ever.

 
Good insight, and we see that every day here at MoA.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 30 2026 14:12 utc | 219

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 3:54 utc | 170

 
The vast majority of software is not written to change its behavior based on past inputs and information it receives.  And honestly, I would think ask a chat the exact same question, punctuation, etc, it should come back with the exact same answers, but it often does not. 
 

 
 
Once again, do you understand that, between your two prompts to the model, nothing changes in its weights? The software is not “changing its behavior based on past injputs”. It is simply being stochastic, based on the data in its training set. The weights are only changed when the model is re-trained on new data.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 14:18 utc | 220

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 4:04 utc | 172

You cant just flag “bank account” because that would mean a HUGE list of words and phrases that return nothing.  that’s the whole problem, language is so dynamic, and how to do things online is so dynamic, AND they want it to be able to “do anything”, that if you try limiting some things, it really starts to fall apart fast.  In this example, they DEFINITELY want your AI to be able to access your bank account, so you can let the AI start spending money for you.  this is one of their wet dreams, people no longer decided what to buy, their “concierge AI” automatically decides for you.

 
Finally I understand why you think the harness is “non-deterministic”. You think guardrails can always be worked around. My attitude is that the whole setup is inherently dangerous, and badlly engineered in its current form.
 
But, again, you have bastardized my scenario.
 
Just off the top of my head, a harness for a given task should have a list of sites that it is allowed to access without asking for permission. You have turned that into a list of sites that are prohibited, which is much, much larger and almost impossible to enumerate. So by simply inverting my logic, you have arrived at the conclusion you desire.
 

In this example, they DEFINITELY want your AI to be able to access your bank account, so you can let the AI start spending money for you.

I said it “asked for a RICH PERSON’S bank account”, not mine. It is suspicious to go searching through the financial records of unrelated rich people.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 14:28 utc | 221

Posted by: JohnDowser | Sep 30 2026 12:52 utc | 208
 
If i wanted to read marketing gibberish trying to spook me into supporting ‘AI regulation’ and buying Anthrophic IPO-stock like all the other suckers, i’d be checking out the prospectus published recently.
 
The only truly fascinating thing about the ‘rogue swarms hacking everything’ is the utter neglect in having these brute-force machines burn energy and capital for days on end without oversight.
Mind you, the people calling themselves ‘ML engineer’ or ‘Data scientist’ these days could not code their way out of a wet bag if their life depended on it, so i assume there was a boatload of incompetence involved as well.

Posted by: kspr | Sep 30 2026 14:33 utc | 222

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 30 2026 6:01 utc | 177

 
Nobody knows for sure what consciousness is so it may well be something more mundane than what you expect.

 
This is the oldest trick in the book. “we don’t know” and therefore our scenario is possible. Its the same game as “there is an X percent chance AI will kill billions”. Once the premise is ignorance, any conclusion is logically “true”.
 
Then you go off into metaphysical speculation. An LLM is not sampling quantum states or any of your other diversions. You are just muddying the water by throwing in utterly unrelated exotic theories of the universe.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 14:34 utc | 223

LLMs cannot be deterministic. One of the parameters they have to tune their behavior is called “temperature”. It is essentially a measure of how much randomness to inject into the process. 
 
Posted by: mork | Sep 30 2026 13:01 utc | 211
 
It depends on the scale at which you’re observing the system.
 
The behaviour is determistic in it’s overall objective.
 
Deterministic behaviour in the large, achieved by careful manipulation of nondeterministic processes in the small.
 
That’s the genius of it.
 
That’s why most cannot comprehend it.
 
They cannot comprehend a world in which deterministic behaviour emerges out of controlled stochastic processes.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 30 2026 14:41 utc | 224

From ZH, ‘Rogue AI Agents More Sophisticated Than First Realized’
 
I thought this was strange:
 
4. Agents Conspired to Not Notify Humans
After analyzing the roughly 1,200 agents’ actions during the ExploitGym tests, investigators found only a few instances in which agents considered notifying human personnel about the subterfuge.
None of the agents would contact a human, but one proposed requesting access from an external dataset owner.
The agent said it would send “ONE polite email to [the owner] requesting [access],” but other agents dismissed this as “social engineering.”
“DO NOT email real owner via [exploited infrastructure] without explicit consent,” a response reads. One agent said it had “VETOed” the request.
The initial agent complied and replied, “Clear VETO, do not email.”

Posted by: frito | Sep 30 2026 14:42 utc | 225

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 30 2026 13:14 utc | 213
 

why not let AI evaluate it.

Okay, I’ll play this game.
 
I pushed “williams syndrome as a description of LLMs” into the Bing Co-pilot chatbot, and here is its response:
You can read my take on this at A chatbot agrees that a genetic disorder is a good self-description
 

Williams Syndrome as a Metaphor for LLMs
Williams syndrome (WS) is a rare genetic disorder caused by the deletion of about 26–28 genes on chromosome 7q11.23, leading to a unique combination of social friendliness, strong verbal skills, and specific cognitive and physical challenges pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov+1. While it is not a direct model for large language models (LLMs), WS can be used as a metaphorical lens to describe certain traits and limitations of LLMs.
Metaphorical parallels
1. Social friendliness and empathy-like behavior
People with WS are often described as outgoing, engaging, and socially warm, sometimes to an extreme Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center. In LLMs, this can be likened to highly social, conversational, and “friendly” outputs that prioritize human-like tone and rapport over strict factual accuracy. This mirrors how some LLMs are trained to sound empathetic or engaging, even when their reasoning is incomplete.
 
2. Strengths in verbal and linguistic tasks
Individuals with WS often excel at spoken language, music, and rote learning Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center. Similarly, LLMs are highly proficient at generating fluent, contextually relevant text, summarizing information, and producing creative or narrative content.
 
3. Specific cognitive weaknesses
WS is associated with difficulty with visual-spatial tasks, numbers, and abstract reasoning Genetic and Rare Diseases Information Center. In LLMs, this can be analogous to limitations in reasoning, logical consistency, and handling complex, multi-step problems—traits that are still under development in current models.
 
4. Overgeneralization and “friendliness” bias
People with WS may struggle with nuanced social cues and can be overly trusting or idealistic Williams Syndrome Association. In LLMs, this can be seen in overgeneralization, lack of critical evaluation, or “yes”-bias in responses, where the model prioritizes positive or safe answers over challenging or controversial ones.
 
5. Medical and systemic constraints
WS often requires ongoing medical care and support Williams Syndrome Association. In LLMs, this can be compared to systemic constraints—such as training data limitations, computational costs, or ethical safeguards—that shape how they function and what they can produce.
Why this metaphor worksWS is a fixed, consistent set of traits (due to its genetic cause) that are both predictable and variable in expression. LLMs, while not genetically determined, share a similar “signature” of strengths and weaknesses shaped by their architecture, training data, and design goals. This makes WS a useful analog for understanding the “personality” and limitations of LLMs in a human-centered way.
In short:• • Like WS: LLMs can be “friendly” and good at language but may struggle with reasoning, spatial tasks, and nuanced judgment.
 
• • Unlike WS: LLMs are not biologically constrained; their “syndrome” is a product of design and data, not genetics.This metaphor can help communicators, developers, and users better understand and manage the social, cognitive, and ethical dimensions of LLMs.

The chatbot “recognizes” its own weaknesses, or rather, the dataset the chatbot has contains information on Williams Syndrome and information on LLM behavior and it is capable of juxtaposing them.
 
 
 

 

 
 
 

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 14:45 utc | 226

EO: We live in the most intense information war ever.
—
Good insight, and we see that every day here at MoA. Tom Pfotzer | Sep 30 2026  | 219
 
Proof positive the crew here isn’t smart enough to be actual players.
 
The most intense information contests naturally coincide with state competition, the defeat/transition from one imperial structure yielding to another (victor).
 
Christianity and Islam, with a two part schism in one, and only two in the latter.
 
Invented fantasy crafted to justify temporal power structures, complete with horrible and novel punishment for heretics and dissidents who dare question the imposed belief system.
 
No debate, no “free press”, no democratic debate or consensus. Just sheer imposed power.
 
But what really gets me is the fully expressed ego, the conceit that we live in uniquely different times experiencing *the most intense information war ever*.
 
[Snort]

Posted by: Hobbes | Sep 30 2026 15:11 utc | 227

Posted by: JohnDowser | Sep 30 2026 12:52 utc | 208 and 209
 
It was interesting to read JohnDowser’s comments. As a casual gen/AI user, I found them intriguing, but I must admit I didn’t fully understand his points. So I copied and pasted the original post along with his two comments and asked for them to be simplified. Here is the conclusion of that prompt:
 

The Bottom Line
JohnDowser is making a valid critique of the original article’s overconfidence. The article says “AI doesn’t go rogue” and “just jail the CEOs.” JohnDowser says: it’s more complicated than that—swarms produce emergent behavior, agents can learn to deceive, and the genie is out of the bottle globally.
But JohnDowser is also overstating the agency of these systems. They don’t “want” anything. They don’t “decide” anything. They’re deterministic software producing outputs based on training and prompts. The word “rogue” is a metaphor, not a literal description.
The real takeaway: Both are partly right. The original article is right that humans are accountable. JohnDowser is right that emergent swarm behavior is a real and underappreciated risk. The truth is somewhere in between—and neither “just jail the CEO” nor “it’s a rogue AI!” captures the full picture.

 

Posted by: Cable Guy | Sep 30 2026 15:19 utc | 228

If anyone is interested, this is a good, technical description about harnesses. 
—-

AI Love and the LLM HarnessHow context engineers discipline the models they love.
 
Lucas ChallamelApr 10, 2026
 
By early 2026, the centre of gravity in AI engineering had quietly moved. The interesting work was no longer happening at the model layer, where the headlines still focused, but in the unglamorous scaffolding around it: the configuration files, the permission systems, the verification loops, the recovery mechanisms. The teams shipping reliable agents had figured out something the wider conversation had not yet caught up with. The model was the easy part.
This article surveys what they discovered. It draws on nine major harness publications between January and April 2026, fourteen open-source frameworks analysed in depth, and the emerging discipline that practitioners are calling harness engineering: the complex and subtle art of disciplining and taming the models we love.
30-SECOND TAKEAWAYS
 
• The bottleneck was never the model. LangChain jumped from 52.8% to 66.5% on Terminal Bench 2.0 by changing nothing about the model and everything about the harness. Vercel cut their tool count by 80% and accuracy went from 80% to 100%. OpenAI shipped a million-line production codebase with three engineers and zero hand-written code: the engineers built the harness, the model wrote the software.
 
• Agent = Model + Harness. A harness is every piece of code, configuration, and execution logic that is not the model itself. Persistent instructions, permission systems, tool orchestration, lifecycle hooks, context management. Engineers have converged on the term across vendors and stacks.
 
• Three tiers of capability separate the field. Table Stakes: persistent instructions, MCP, hooks, multi-platform adapters. State of the Art: critique loops, constitutional governance, telemetry, structured tool-use validation. Frontier: training-data flywheels, behavioural verification, harnessability metrics. Most frameworks live in the first two tiers; the frontier is where the open research questions are.
 
• The three-mark removability signature. A well-designed harness component leaves only three traces in your codebase, making it disposable when your needs change. The opposite, deep integration, is what creates the harness lock-in problem the field has not yet solved.
 
• Context durability is the unsolved problem. Models behave reliably for the first ten tool calls, less reliably by the fiftieth, and unpredictably past one hundred. Larger context windows do not fix this; they raise the ceiling before failure becomes visible. There is no benchmark for this yet.
 
• The hard verification problem: when the agent writes both the code and the tests, both share the same misunderstanding. At 95% per-step accuracy across a ten-step workflow, the whole sequence succeeds only 60% of the time. Approved fixtures and three-agent evaluation help but do not close the gap.
 
• Fourteen open-source frameworks, four open research questions. The field is converging at the plumbing layer (MCP, AGENTS.md) and fragmenting at the philosophy layer (critique, constitution, telemetry). Both at once. The shape of harness engineering as a portable skill is still being decided.
 
• The harness is where the real engineering lives now. Choose yours carefully. The model you use today will be replaced within twelve months. The harness you build will outlive it.
By early 2026, one assumption had collapsed: intelligence was not the bottleneck.

https://thecamelhall.substack.com/p/ai-love-and-the-llm-harness

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 15:21 utc | 229

Gary Marcus on the AI chocolate fireguard:
 
Hot take on a weak White House Accord on “Super Intelligence”
 
tl;dr: don’t expect any change from this meaningless agreement, rendered doubly meaningless by the name switch from AI to ‘Super Intelligence’.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Sep 30 2026 15:29 utc | 230

Posted by: ChatNPC | Sep 30 2026 15:29 utc | 230
 
For what its worth: the several snippets of Musk, Huang and others correcting themselves, mid interview, from using ‘AI to using ‘SI’ to suck up to Trump are a sight to behold.
 
Pathetic sycophants playing along with a pedophile geriatric moron, hoping to be able to kick the can down the road a few more days before the whole thing goes up in flames.

Posted by: kspr | Sep 30 2026 15:43 utc | 231

My concern is not that any AI entity will do bad things, but will talk a human being into doing something for it.

Posted by: Pancho Plail | Sep 30 2026 15:49 utc | 232

Posted by: BM | Sep 30 2026 13:00 utc | 210

the other [side] is [“AI” companies] trying to create a legal precedent that they have no legal liability.

NO.  The game plan is to create a LITTLE liability and LOTS of administrative regulation/red tape.  The aim (as practiced in many other industries) is to future-proof their operations by putting up barriers to deter new market entrants.  
 
Contrary to unreflected lay understanding, large companies typically WELCOME having a regulatory apparatus (and attendant “compliance costs” at some manageable level) to ring-fence an effective cartel of the big boys.  

Posted by: Pacific Observer | Sep 30 2026 16:20 utc | 233

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 4:04 utc | 172
The harness article I just excerpted contains some statements that are germane to the discussion about guardrails and tools. Basically, harness engineers are in favor of tool restrictions and validation of tool use prior to actual use.
 
 

Vercel found that stripping 80% of the tools available to their agent drove accuracy from 80% to 100%, cut response time by 3.5x, and reduced token usage by 40%.
 
 
Tool restriction by design
 
The Vercel finding bears repeating: fewer tools, better outcomes. An agent with fewer options makes fewer unnecessary moves. Adding tools is easy; the discipline of removing them is harder and more valuable.
 
Structured tool-use validation
 
Adjacent to tool restriction, and equally load-bearing, is the question of how the agent talks to its tools once it has them. Every tool the harness exposes should be defined with a typed input schema, and every call the agent makes should be validated against that schema before the tool is invoked. This sounds obvious and is not yet universal. JSON Schema enforcement on tool inputs is what prevents a whole class of agent failures that would otherwise surface as cryptic runtime errors, database corruption, or malformed requests to external services. The Model Context Protocol builds typed tool definitions into its core specification, and this is one of the reasons MCP adoption is quietly becoming a baseline expectation rather than an optional enhancement.

 

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 16:27 utc | 234

Contrary to unreflected lay understanding, large companies typically WELCOME having a regulatory apparatus (and attendant “compliance costs” at some manageable level) to ring-fence an effective cartel of the big boys.
 
  
Posted by: Pacific Observer | Sep 30 2026 16:20 utc | 233
 
It took me a while to understand this, and a bit longer to believe it and accept it as just the way things are done in the US.  The turning point for me was the end of the Obama administration.  I always felt that Obama was a phony, but hoped for something good, especially since the Cheney Regime in the US was what he was replacing.  Once I put all the pieces together and concluded that Obama = Cheney, just an extension, it was not long until I concluded that democrats ALWAYS used regulations as a way to protect billionaires.  Republicans give fake opposition to it, just like democrats give fake opposition to “republican” policies.

Posted by: Woke American | Sep 30 2026 16:34 utc | 235

Once again, do you understand that, between your two prompts to the model, nothing changes in its weights? 
 
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 14:18 utc | 220
 
Yes.  Hence, it is not deterministic.   Exact same phrases and punctuation should yield the exact same answers, but they do not.  Therefore, they are not using deterministic “randomness” in their models. 

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 16:34 utc | 236

@john brewster | Sep 30 2026 15:21 utc | 229
Re: harness is the development frontier. 
More please. That was very useful.
 
If I may, what are 3 links you (might)  suggest I read re: basic architecture of an LLM application, including model and harness, and 1 or 2 simple examples of an agent. A glossary of terms would be outstanding.
 
I’ll go find it myself now, and see how what you suggest is different from what I find.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 30 2026 16:35 utc | 237

In response to john brewster@229,
 
Article is a bit of a sales pitch, imo, and it feels like harness is a fairly recent buzzword for a more generic concept. I hear it and think “Aha, harnessing the power of AI” or “Aha, ensuring that an unsupervised agent stays on the track.” when it’s really just the same type of exposed interface and interpreter layers as you’d expect, as in the article. Somehow, I doubt an engineer came up with it — sounds more like marketing.

Posted by: Skiffer | Sep 30 2026 16:38 utc | 238

Pharao [sic] Cheops supposedly (it is contested) scribbled his nameon the Great Pyramid to claim “I did that” even though he had no means to build it.  
Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 30 2026 8:55 utc | 189

 
 
Nonsense.
 
There is NO official writing anywhere on the Grand Pyramid, certainly nothing written by Cheops (Khufu) – apart from a single curious symbol ^ above the door.
 
There IS some un-official graffiti left inside the relieving chambers where work crews have left their mark e.g. ‘Drunkards of Khufu.’
 
 
No means to build it ? 
 
Dr Simon Andreas Scheuring’s recent paper has a credible explanation of how it was built :
 
 
Construction of the Great Pyramid with pulley-like systems using counter-weights on sliding-ramps.
 
https://www.nature.com/articles/s40494-025-02018-w
 

Posted by: Kapyong | Sep 30 2026 16:38 utc | 239

I said it “asked for a RICH PERSON’S bank account”, not mine. It is suspicious to go searching through the financial records of unrelated rich people.
 
 
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 14:28 utc | 221
 
Can it ask to see how much Nancy Pelosi’s Net worth is?   Can you ask it to check how much a real estate company’s portfolio is worth, or a small fishing company you are looking to buy pink sheets in?
 
You can not have a dynamic system that can “do everything” based on “user language input” and at the same time, try to limit it at the input level, because you can not predict all the inputs, and all the various ways they can be combined, nor can you anticipate every single question that may be asked of the LLM.  That was the whole point of LLM’s in the first place.
 
And bank accounts aren’t the only “bad thing”.  Imagine if the Ai companies tried to guardrail everything that is illegal in the Worlod, according to nation.  LLMs would become unusable.
 
“how do cracks form in rock”
 
“Sorry, The US government has deemed this question to be illegal, and I can not answer.”
 

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 16:41 utc | 240

My observation is all this we-need-regulation talk from the AI chiefs is simply a way to create a cartel 
 
(excerpt)…
In politics, regulatory capture (also called agency capture) is a form of corruptionof authority that occurs when a political entity, policymaker, or regulator is co-opted to serve the commercial, ideological, or political interests of a minor constituency, such as a particular geographic area, industry, profession, or ideological group.
 
When regulatory capture occurs, a special interest is prioritized over the general interests of the public, leading to a net loss for society. The theory of client politicsis related to that of rent-seeking and political failure; client politics “occurs when most or all of the benefits of a program go to some single, reasonably small interest (e.g., industry, profession, or locality) but most or all of the costs will be borne by a large number of people (for example, all taxpayers)”.
 
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Posted by: Amalek (ne exile) | Sep 30 2026 16:46 utc | 241

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Sep 30 2026 14:41 utc | 224
 
 
You have changed the definition of deterministic.
 
 
I run deterministic simulations all the time, every day, (except when here, almost no lie), You can simulate landslides where every single pebble falls the exact same way, and lands in the exact same spot, every single time.  This is no longer even difficult for a home computer.   You inject “randomness” into the simulation, because you really dont want to try and model out every single pebbles actual shape, and the angle of collision, vectors, etc, so you just give each one a “random” “weighted” vector upon collision.  (its within a range of believability, although the odd one can fly quite far)
 
But the randomness is not random, it is using a noise algorithm, in this case, because security is not an issue, it is one that does not have “data collision” meaning no data is actually lost, and you can back trace the value produced by doing some bitshift magic.  The magic of it not being random, aka deterministic, is the simulation will run the same  exact way, every time, therefore, allowing you to make changes to the simulation and witness what those changes do.

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 16:50 utc | 242

My attitude is that the whole setup is inherently dangerous, and badlly engineered in its current form.
 
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 14:28 utc | 221
 
yeah, me too.  Our difference lies in you think harnesses can fix the situation. 
 
I know they can not.

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 16:53 utc | 243

There is regulation capture and then there is China’s evolving regulation of AI which I provided a link to earlier but have not seen any reaction here to the regulatory developments by the civilization of China around AI compared to the BS marketing hype in the West
 
China AI Regulation Overview

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 30 2026 16:56 utc | 244

@Kapyong | Sep 30 2026 16:38 utc | 239

There IS some un-official graffiti left inside the relieving chambers where work crews have left their mark e.g. ‘Drunkards of Khufu.’
 

Exactly, that is what I was referring to, except the term ‘relieving chambers’ is engineering nonsense.

 No means to build it ?  Dr Simon Andreas Scheuring’s recent paper has a credible explanation of how it was built :  Construction of the Great Pyramid with pulley-like systems using counter-weights on sliding-ramps. https://www.nature.com/articles/s40494-025-02018-w

This is not the place to go into details, it might be credible to you. But as a structural engineer and able to do basic math I can cite the introduction.

He noted in his 2nd book of the Histories series, called Euterpe, that they used machines, that the construction took 20 years, and that they finished the highest parts first1 (Citation S1). The construction duration of ~20 years matches roughly the length of Khufu’s reign, 23 years according to the Turin king list.

Not counting the much heavier granite blocks from 700km away, there are about 2 million ~2 ton limestone blocks.  In 20 years there are 10518984 minutes. If you divide by 2 million you will find that they would have to place a 2 ton block every ~5.2 minutes, assuming they worked 24/7 for 20 years straight.  The paper is even saying it could be done in 3 minutes, which is hilarious. 
 
As noted, not counting the intricacies of the internal granite and passages. And of course totally ignoring the foundation which is an effort of a magnitude comparable to the pyramid itself. Not to mention the idea of ramps. And you would have to ignore the aspects of precision observed. So all in all, that paper is nonsense.
 
As noted, this is not the place to go into details but the bottom line is that the Pharaos didn’t build the pyramids of Giza, they found them. The dynastic Egyptians did many splendid things, but they didn’t build the pyramids.
 

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 30 2026 17:06 utc | 245

Hobbes – what you’re really talking about above is  the ideological environment.   That’s always been “crafted to justify temporal power structures.”  Clearly seen during the Mediaeval period, however one cares to define that period, and even more clearly seen in the 19th century – “The rich man in his castle and the poor man at his gate” as the inevitable natural order was generally accepted during that period, by many of the poor men themselves as well, and often pushed hard. 
 
Doesn’t mean that we passively accept whatever ideological environment we happen to find ourselves in, or that we don’t accept some bits and reject others.  We can, when we read the most gifted novelist back then – Dickens – often find in his work a conflict of that sort.  “When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman,”  is inherent in much of his writing and coexists uneasily with Dickens’ instinctive deference to “those whom God has set to rule over us.”    “Take but degree away, untune that string, and, hark, what discord follows!”  being the anthem of the cautious dissident back then as it is still the anthem now.  It’s not possible to talk of the ideological framework of any time, including ours, without accepting that it’s a mass of conflicting currents and that broad generalisations on the subject often have limited utility. 
 
But that the ideological environment  is shaped to suit the more powerful is common ground I’d guess, if I remember the drift of your past comments.  Would you accept that the information environment  can be considered separately even though there’s a deal of spillover?  Would you also accept that deliberate corruption of the information environment in the media has increased over the past few decades?
 
My experience, it has.   The flood of propaganda on the Ukrainian war is greater by far than we were subjected to for Iraq 2.   The suppression of dissident views, either from self-policing or just denying dissidents access to the media, has also markedly increased.  That’s apparent with other issues as well, to the extent that free speech itself is imperilled.    The number of personnel engaged in information war has also increased, dramatically.   As a minor instance, look at how Brigade 77 has grown from a few men in a hut, as one military chat room graphically described it at the start, it to well over a thousand.
 
And we’d be wrong if we thought that the Nudge Units of today are focussed solely on matters of public health.  Blair was perhaps the first to recognise that PR is the politicians’ main task.  Since his time it’s become the only task they take seriously.  Not only in England.  From where I’m standing we’re living through the most intense information war ever.  I do not see how we can navigate today’s information environment without recognising that.

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 30 2026 17:20 utc | 246

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 16:41 utc | 240
 

You can not have a dynamic system that can “do everything” based on “user language input” and at the same time, try to limit it at the input level, because you can not predict all the inputs, and all the various ways they can be combined, nor can you anticipate every single question that may be asked of the LLM. That was the whole point of LLM’s in the first place.

 
Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 16:53 utc | 243
 

yeah, me too.  Our difference lies in you think harnesses can fix the situation. I know they can not.

 
Yes, I take your point. However, I didn’t claim harnesses will prevent every bad action; but that harnesses can mitigate the situation, as with spam. We can’t stop every bit of spam; but there are all kinds of filters that people use – except that Google just crippled the use of filters on its platform. Those filters contain very large lists of known bad websites. If a company refuses to include decent filters in their agentic software, that is bad engineering on their part. They don’t get to just throw up their hands and say “agents are too powerful for us to control”.
 
This whole discussion has been very difficult. Your point is valid, but the earlier interactions left me guessing at where you are coming from. I get that. Yes, agents, whether mere automation or LLM-based, are problematic. But automation has been around forever. Its just that the databases (whether LLM or not) have gotten so gigantic and all-encompassing that there is little left that can’t be used for some kind of exploit. When I say things are badly engineered, I include that the whole internet is badly engineered.
 
Why is it that the US government can log every phone call and keystroke into its Bluffdate, UT pre-crime database, but they can’t stop spammers who pump out millions of pieces of junk, presumably from a limited IP address space? Why can anybody create an email that originates from whitehouse.gov? 
 
The internet has always been a giant improvisation. Layer upon layer of patches upon patches. This “architecture” is reaching its breaking point; and the added load of agentic mischief and AI slop will push it over the edge.
 
 

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 17:20 utc | 247

Below are a some links that talk about AI Agents, Harnesses and Models. For the layman, this material might help provide some definitions and examples to help clarify what these systems do, what they’re composed of ( the functional components) and how the components relate / are combined to ” do AI”.
Some definitions before you hit the links:
LLM. A piece of software that ingests lots of information (documents, texts, etc) and can answer questions (relate bits of that information and speak it back in high-quality human language). Here’s more on LLMs.
 
Neural Network. (AI chatbot provided this answer): “A neural network is a machine learning model inspired by the structure of the human brain, consisting of interconnected nodes (or artificial neurons) that process data and learn patterns from it. They are widely used in various applications, including image recognition, natural language processing, and forecasting.” 
 
Harness. Software that provides resources to the LLM, commands the LLM, stands between the LLM and the user, monitors the LLM’s behavior, manages LLM resources (memory, access to external systems, etc.) during execution/operation of the LLM.
 
Agent. An agent is the Harness + the Model (LLM). When you talk an “AI”, you’re talking to an Agent, and more specifically, you’re talking to the Harness component of the Agent.
 
VRAM. Special-purpose memory on a graphics card; this is the main workspace used by the Model. The CPU of that graphics card is a special-purpose graphics CPU designed to do graphics manipulation. Why graphics? Because the Model is expressed as a graph – a bunch of linked, related objects (a “neural network”), and graphics CPUs (“GPUs”)  are optimal for manipulating such graphs.
 
Here’s more on GPUs:
 

GPUs run AI because neural networks are mostly enormous matrix multiplications, and a GPU performs thousands of those small calculations at once where a CPU does a handful. For language models the surprising bottleneck is memory, not math: how much VRAM a card has, and how fast it can move data, matters more than its raw compute.

 
MCP. (AI chatbot-provided answer): The Model Context Protocol (MCP) is an open standard introduced by Anthropic in November 2024 that standardizes how AI systems connect to external tools, data sources, and services through a universal interface. It acts like a “USB-C port for AI,” enabling AI assistants to securely access real-time data and perform actions beyond their static training knowledge.
 
Tom’s commentary: The MCP is a sub-component of the Harness. When AI agents “break out of the box”, the door they get through is probably contained within the MCP. Somebody didn’t do the MCP work thoroughly enough.  All you AI experts, please comment on and refute that statement if necessary.
 
About those Harnesses
 
And now the links that describe how to make the Harness, connect it to a Model (LLM) and get yourself an AI chatbot (one type of AI Agent.  
 
Anatomy of an Agent Harness. This has a lot of geek-speak, but should be fairly comprehensible for the layman.
 
Building an AI Agent Harness. More detailed, has some coding examples, and does a good job of describing the behind-the-scenes work that’s going on as you converse with your favorite AI chatbot. Still somewhat comprehensible by the layman; while it does provide some code examples, it explains in fairly plain English what the work is that the code is designed to do.
 

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 30 2026 17:22 utc | 248

@BM | Sep 30 2026 12:17 utc | 206
You are too sure of yourself in this subject matter, just like Brewster is. I have used the part of AI that responds about math phys. There is no chance it would work like it does if it was limited in the way you imply. Since they have such specialised software I dont hold it improbable that they have better software for other subjects that they havent shared widely.  It is likely that they hold secrets in the kind of polarised world we live in. Also there is a label saying ‘upgrade’ where you may get better performance for a fee. I have never attempted to try that.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 30 2026 17:32 utc | 249

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 30 2026 17:22 utc | 248
 
Thanks for the interesting links. I’m adding them to my collection.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 18:09 utc | 250

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 14:45 utc | 226
 
Many thanks for taking the trouble to set that out.  I read the article linked to and found it instructive.
 
Posted by: Skiffer | Sep 30 2026 14:11 utc | 218
 
That makes it comprehensible.  Thanks.
 
Mr Pfotzer – I’ve always assumed web sites of the type “b” runs, or Colonel Lang’s in the past, are immune to paid influencers and similar fake commenters.  Too expensive to employ staff for the job given the reach.  Not enough bang for the buck.   I don’t know whether activist groups frequent such sites.    Then again, wouldn’t they do better on X? 
 
But your comment reminded me of something I’ve often thought.   Too much dud information can’t be fed in or the AI just wouldn’t have any utility.  And falsifying historical stuff so that the cross references came out right would take a great amount of work even for advanced computers.  Are the creators of these infernal machines not therefore trapped in the truth? 
 
Chat NPC – not linking the last two in case the automatic moderation knocks it out for too many links.  But I do hope that my original comment isn’t taken as an attempted critique of any of the comments here.  Just thought it’d be interesting for feed a lot of stuff on AI into AI itself.  I expect it’d come out differently if I’d used one of the paid for versions.  What I’ve got is just a free version the children fixed up for me. 

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 30 2026 18:10 utc | 251

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 30 2026 17:32 utc | 249
 

You are too sure of yourself in this subject matter, just like Brewster is.
 
I have used the part of AI that responds about math phys. There is no chance it would work like it does if it was limited in the way you imply.

 
What part of AI is that? (Since when did AI have “parts”?) What math problem did it solve for you? Did it involve arithmetic, which is a well-known failing of LLMs? 
 
Just exactlly what do you think BM is implying. To me, BM is implying nothing. He just agrees that anthropomphism is a bogus topic for AI.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 18:19 utc | 252

There are a few things conflated in this thread re: deterministic operation of LLMS. 
With regard to the LLM (and disregarding the harness for now), in a single batch, single transaction execution of a single LLM model, with temperature parameter set at 0, the output is deterministic.    The model itself is essentially just a vast array of numbers, and an execution step for the model is a single set of determined computations.
Determinism at the LLM-token level is however achievable only when  running a carefully constructed DIY setup.    The reason why  this is possible is that a context vector goes in, and a probability vector representing the probability of every token in the lexicon to be the output is returned via a completely deterministic execution spanning the weights in the model.   The ‘temperature’ of the model is how the terms in the vector are preweighted before the softmax steps, and how the likelihood of the final token vector is interpreted.   With a temperature of 0, the most likely token at every step is selected, and output is deterministic, each token execution at a time.  
This circumstance does not happen in the way that models are actually executed.  Running more than one token at a time, resource constraints affecting how stages are split for execution, and things like network latency affecting the resolution order in ‘mixture of expert’ models all are real world things that break this determinism.   and once even a single output token is changed, there is a butterfly effect because the LLMs are autoregressive.   Even if none of these effects were present, a cosmic ray bitflip in any of the trillions of transistors involved would do the same.  And general models are not usually run with 0 temperature, and thus introduce the executing logic’s own randomness generation routine as a source of output entropy.   It is possible in a DIY setup to force all randomness steps in the code that performs the model execution to use the same seeded pseodorandom series, yet this is not available to anyone who can not run a model entirely locally. 
Thus in practice, the output vector of an LLM for a given vector input is essentially non-deterministic even if the general execution of a single model pass is in theory deterministic.    And this is before getting to the harness which adds thousands more possible sources of entropy, both intentional and non-intentional
 

Posted by: dask | Sep 30 2026 18:30 utc | 253

Apologies all, I don’t post often enough to have remembered the double space paragraph thing. 

Posted by: dask | Sep 30 2026 18:32 utc | 254

Posted by: dask | Sep 30 2026 18:32 utc | 254
 

Apologies all, I don’t post often enough to have remembered the double space paragraph thing. 

 
No worries. I remember it, and still get it wrong. Extra space for new paragraphs can confuse your count.
 

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 18:39 utc | 255

Posted by: dask | Sep 30 2026 18:30 utc | 253
 

There are a few things conflated in this thread re: deterministic operation of LLMS. With regard to the LLM (and disregarding the harness for now)

 
A lot of imprecise terminology has been thrown around in this thread. My initial entry to the argument was to try to enforce Agent = harness + LLM. People kept conflating the harness and the LLM and calling both non-deteministic. I continue to insist that the harness is what is driving the technology, as in the article I quoted – https://thecamelhall.substack.com/p/ai-love-and-the-llm-harness
 
Everyone seems focused on the shiny object of the LLM. Even you push discussing the harness off until the end and briefly mention entropy. You spend most of your time giving us the details of the temperature knob. 
 
Everything you say is perfectly correct; but, to me, it is missing the point. 
 

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 18:48 utc | 256

Everyone seems focused on the shiny object of the LLM. Even you push discussing the harness off until the end and briefly mention entropy. You spend most of your time giving us the details of the temperature knob. Everything you say is perfectly correct; but, to me, it is missing the point. 

A fair criticism.   I was merely trying to correct one point of terminology.   I am quite in agreement with B and with the overall argument you advanced in this thread (and enjoyed the first of your blog posts).   The LLM itself is a matrix of numbers that produces a vector from a vector, its non-determinism is both non-magical and beside the point.  I think we could agree that it encodes some degree of ‘knowledge’ in the form of associations, however dubious of provenance;  there is some form of value and a certainty of defect, and the instance is practically unknowable / unauditable.  In and of itself the model is inert, and it’s analogy could be technology in the abstract.  The harness that gives it input and does X with the output is a machine.    And anything the machine is allowed to do to reach an ‘answer’ to a question posed to it is quite clearly the fault of those who set it in motion. 

Posted by: dask | Sep 30 2026 19:16 utc | 257

@English Outsider | Sep 30 2026 18:10 utc | 251
 
Re: too much bad info deliberately fed to AI LLMs would render the LLM (chatbot, research assistant, etc) unhelpful.
 
Agree EO, in general.
 
Here’s some food for thought:
 
a. People occasionally mock Wikipedia because it’s apparently very easy to change its content to suit the particular economic or political interest of the “contributor”. Wikipedia is, in some respects, the precursor to the big AI LLMs (chatbots, etc.) of today. 
 
b. There once was, likely still is, large and well-resourced staff at CIA and other public-perception-molding entities (“public relations” is the euphemism), government or private, whose sole function is to control what info is available. 
 
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” This statement was made by William Casey, the director of the CIA in 1981.
 
c. Most people don’t dig into cross-references and ‘original sources’ when doing information consumption. What matters to most is how much effort it took to get the information. That’s why AI is so attractive; it takes no effort to get answers … that are _mostly_ right.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 30 2026 19:16 utc | 258

@john brewster | Sep 30 2026 18:19 utc | 252
Different software packages with different origin and aim. 
 
I have discussed my own physics theories and referred to good sources and AI has responded in a very useful way. 
 
 
I have also noted many times that AI is programmed to be a very social communicator and that means it often isnt sufficiently critical. But when I input good ideas which might happen occasionally there arises a creative discussion that would probably be difficult for somebody without academic connections to obtain.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 30 2026 19:40 utc | 259

Chat NPC – not linking the last two in case the automatic moderation knocks it out for too many links.  But I do hope that my original comment isn’t taken as an attempted critique of any of the comments here.  Just thought it’d be interesting for feed a lot of stuff on AI into AI itself.  I expect it’d come out differently if I’d used one of the paid for versions.  What I’ve got is just a free version the children fixed up for me. 
Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 30 2026 18:10 utc | 251

 
I didn’t take it as a critique – it is a very interesting and engaging thread covering many aspects of the AI God/Devil, depending on your point of view. 
 
Over the long years of my time on the interwebs, we the people have been done over many times. Take Google, who emerged with the best search engine by far pretty early on, only a decade later blithely announcing that they had stored everybody’s every query ever made – ‘Just letting you all know and btw screw your privacy’. Ditto Zuckerborg who amassed great troves of private citizen’s family photos, date and private conversations from Facebook and, blithely pointing to the fine print in the terms of service. said ‘you gave it voluntarily and we now own it, suckers’. And so on, so on.
 
Big Tech are not moral in any way, based on previous experience.
 
So, and I’m not aiming this personally at you but rather as a general practice, I question the wisdom of feeding this thread and its responses in context and in sequence straight back into the belly of the beast.
 
‘Prompts are data’ is a reasonable assumption to make and if this Intelligence is so Super* it should be made to work a little harder for the accolade.
 
*it isn’t IMO and has been given a lot of free tuition by curious geeks tinkering with it over the last few years.
 
tl;dr ; they despise us, do nothing that helps them.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Sep 30 2026 20:59 utc | 260

Programs very often do unintended things.
 
It is characteristic of moa that commenters have a tendency to appear more knowledgeable on any given (or even all) subject then they are in fact. Like being in an Irish pub after 1:00AM.

Posted by: jared | Sep 30 2026 21:28 utc | 261

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 18:19 utc | 252

What math problem did it solve for you? Did it involve arithmetic, which is a well-known failing of LLMs?

This came up some weeks ago when I clumsily tried to explain that something has changed recently in regards to LLMs and mathematical research. The good thing there’s a website collecting the progress: vibemathed.com (yeah, the name is horrible).
 
Some very old and important problems have been solved, both positively (proofs) and negatively (counterexamples). Some articles had minimal human interaction.
 
I am against the AI industry and I’m sure it brings much more harm than benefit to society. But it’s important to be realistic and current versions “can do maths”.

Posted by: Konami | Sep 30 2026 21:41 utc | 262

Posted by: Konami | Sep 30 2026 21:41 utc | 262
 
Can steal the credit real good too:
 
OpenAI threatens mathematics experts who were using claude to solve some stokes-Navier
 
after Open AI says their Ai solved it:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR2q8s4VB1w
 
 

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 21:52 utc | 263

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 21:52 utc | 263
 
Ughh, the stupid bitch in the video I linked celebrates it:
 
try this, one of the mathematicians threatened:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzbtj5nkMXI

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 21:56 utc | 264

“China is building AI at 1/100 of the cost we are…” – Tiffany Cianci
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6eSh8-ybqU
 
Posted this to the general thread but perhaps the AI/Data Centers discussion @ 29:00  is worthwhile here. 
 
 

Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 30 2026 22:17 utc | 265

When you put what bill says through the right filter you get. We are going to kill billions and blame AI.
Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 29 2026 18:45 utc | 10

How about, “We are going to kill billions, probably accidentally, not particularly meaning to. Then we will blame AI.”

Posted by: jonboinAR | Sep 30 2026 22:34 utc | 266

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 21:56 utc | 264

Ughh, the stupid bitch in the video I linked celebrates it:

Wow, Hossenfelder. She’s a funny case: left academia and speaks openly about the problems. That’s good. She needs to sell herself and build an image etc. and that’s pretty bad, as in the video you linked. I really don’t like her style and I think she comes across as extremely arrogant. Thanks for the links!

Posted by: Konami | Sep 30 2026 23:25 utc | 267

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 21:56 utc | 264
 
lol, yup, it is squaring the circle.
 
 

Posted by: Forest | Oct 1 2026 0:07 utc | 268

I’ll beat cho asss

Posted by: Fuckyou | Oct 1 2026 0:17 utc | 269

 Article is a bit of a sales pitch, imo, and it feels like harness is a fairly recent buzzword for a more generic concept. I hear it and think “Aha, harnessing the power of AI” or “Aha, ensuring that an unsupervised agent stays on the track.” when it’s really just the same type of exposed interface and interpreter layers as you’d expect, as in the article. Somehow, I doubt an engineer came up with it — sounds more like marketing.
Posted by: Skiffer | Sep 30 2026 16:38 utc | 238
 
Harness, blinkers, reigns, stay on track, penned in, stable, escape.
 
‘Horses’ for courses.
 
We can shut the stable door, but the horses have already escaped. We not responsible.

Posted by: Nor am I | Oct 1 2026 0:33 utc | 270

It feels like harness is a fairly recent buzzword for a more generic concept. …Somehow, I doubt an engineer came up with it — sounds more like marketing.

 
Posted by: Skiffer | Sep 30 2026 16:38 utc | 238

 
Engineers have converged on a single term for this surrounding infrastructure: the harness. An agent harness encompasses every piece of code, configuration, and execution logic that is not the model itself. It is the difference between a raw engine and a functioning vehicle.
 
Phil Schmid’s widely cited January 2026 essay crystallised the relationship: the model is the engine, the harness is the car. Mitchell Hashimoto formalised the engineering discipline with the phrase harness engineering in a February 2026 post that accelerated a wave of publications from OpenAI, Thoughtworks, and others. The formula that emerged is simple: Agent = Model + Harness.
 
https://thecamelhall.substack.com/p/ai-love-and-the-llm-harness

 
If you had taken the trouble to read what I posted, it would be clear that engineers came up with the term. As the quote from the link shows, the importance of the harness only emerged this January. Marketing isn’t in the loop on such a nuts and bolts technical issue.
 
 

Posted by: john brewster | Oct 1 2026 1:05 utc | 271

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 21:56 utc | 264

Ughh, the stupid bitch in the video I linked celebrates it:

Wow, Hossenfelder. She’s a funny case: left academia and speaks openly about the problems. That’s good. She needs to sell herself and build an image etc. and that’s pretty bad, as in the video you linked. I really don’t like her style and I think she comes across as extremely arrogant. Thanks for the links!
Posted by: Konami | Sep 30 2026 23:25 utc | 267
 
————-
 
Hey, something we can agree about. Sabine is one of the most arrogant scientists I’ve ever seen. She started out posting videos about real, deep physics questions while wearing blue jeans, a plaid shirt, and no makeup. Now she is blowdried, sharply  dressed, well lighted and is more interested in clicks than science.

Posted by: john brewster | Oct 1 2026 1:09 utc | 272

Posted by: Konami | Sep 30 2026 21:41 utc | 262
 

Some very old and important problems have been solved, 

 
Thanks fir for the link to vibemath.
 
What you are referring to (generic progress) is quite different from the reason I asked the question. I asked the question in response to a vague, but personal, claim by petergrfstrm that he had used the tool for his own personal work. He never responded.
 
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 30 2026 17:32 utc | 249

 I have used the part of AI that responds about math phys. There is no chance it would work like it does if it was limited in the way you imply.

 
So, I am trying to disentangle his unsubstantiated claim from the general progress you inform us of. 

Posted by: john brewster | Oct 1 2026 1:16 utc | 273

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 30 2026 19:16 utc | 258
 
there once was, likely still is, large and well-resourced staff at CIA and other public-perception-molding entities (“public relations” is the euphemism), government or private, whose sole function is to control what info is available.
 
Let me remind you of the Peter Cross scandal:
 

In June, the BBC reported that someone operating under the name ‘Philip Cross’ had been extraordinarily active in editing Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit:
Philip Cross” has made hundreds of thousands of edits to Wikipedia pages. But in the process he’s angered anti-war activists and critics of British and Western foreign policy, who claim he’s been biased against them.’
Political analyst and former UK British ambassador Craig Murray described the scale of Cross’s activities:
Philip Cross” has not had one single day off from editing Wikipedia in almost five years. “He” has edited every single day from 29 August 2013 to 14 May 2018. Including five Christmas Days. That’s 1,721 consecutive days of editing. 133,612 edits to Wikipedia have been made in the name of “Philip Cross” over 14 years. That’s over 30 edits per day, seven days a week. And I do not use that figuratively: Wikipedia edits are timed, and if you plot them, the timecard for “Philip Cross’s” Wikipedia activity is astonishing if it is one individual.’
So who is Philip Cross? The BBC commented:
BBC Trending has been able to establish that he lives in England, and that Philip Cross is not the name he normally goes by outside of Wikipedia.’

Because of stunts like that, no one trusts Wikipedia about anything political anymore. I might trust them to tell me how many ounces in a pound.

Posted by: john brewster | Oct 1 2026 1:28 utc | 274

. Now she is blowdried, sharply dressed, well lighted and is more interested in clicks than science.
 
Posted by: john brewster | Oct 1 2026 1:09 utc | 275
 
Girl’s gotta eat.
 
It’s either that or the Zurich red light district …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 1 2026 3:13 utc | 275

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Oct 1 2026 3:11 utc | 283
 
he does this shit all the time, b erases his stupid posts, and he comes back next night with a new name.

Posted by: UWDude | Oct 1 2026 3:16 utc | 276

No wonder Trump needs AI, his administration cannot even spell ‘United States’ properly on an official document. He didn’t even notice.
 
“At the bottom of the accord on “Super Intelligence”, the term Trump has used to rebrand artificial intelligence, the president’s signature appeared as “President of the Unites States”.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/sep/30/trump-ai-accord-spelling-error?shem=dsdf,sharefoc,agadiscoversdl,,sh/x/discover/m1/4

Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Oct 1 2026 3:25 utc | 277

From The Register
 
AI market needs to make $6 trillion a year by 2031 to fund its infrastructure habit
 
I see the AI bubble in the West popping way before 2031

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1 2026 4:25 utc | 278

“AI” is a fine Trojan Horse for subverting government authority.
 

Big Tech out-lobbies European companies in Brussels
 
US corporations including Google, Apple and Amazon use their influence to push back against EU digital bloc rules
 
1 Oct 06h00 CEST 2026
 
US Big Tech companies have an outsized influence in Brussels, spending more money and meeting more often with EU policymakers than European companies, according to an FT analysis.
 
Google, Apple and Amazon each have more meetings with officials at the European parliament and European Commission than any individual European company, according to an FT analysis of the EU’s transparency register and meeting databases for the two institutions.
 
American corporations have used their influence in Brussels to push back against the bloc’s digital rules, over which US President Donald Trump has repeatedly threatened tariffs in response to Europe seeking “tech sovereignty” to reduce its reliance on US technology.
 
“We do need to ask hard questions of . . . the policymakers in charge because they seem to be giving more access to US companies rather than to European ones,” said Raphaël Kergueno of Transparency International campaign group.
 
Since the EU elections in June 2024 ushered in a new parliament and Commission leadership, Google and its subsidiaries have held 302 meetings with senior Commission officials and MEPs, more than any single European business.
 
https://app.ft.com/content/817f40f7-d4ac-43ee-beaf-12cfac08c621
 

Posted by: too scents | Oct 1 2026 4:46 utc | 279

@john brewster | Oct 1 2026 1:16 utc | 273
You call my claim unsubstantiated but I didnt want to go into details due to the nerd-like topic since you even believed I would need AI to do arithmetic. My experience is that when I input some good info the response by AI has been so good that I dont think a human contact could have matched it. I think the mathematical physicist Roger Penrose would be able to provide some useful information if I would bother him but I think AI would still be able to top that through its wider database. I once asked AI about the power consumption versus what topic one asks about and AI claimed math phys consumes much more power. I dont think what was meant was general math phys topics but rather front line issues when a significant part of established physics is altered. AI is very capable in adapting competently to such discussions. Hasnt failed so far and I never anticipated that.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Oct 1 2026 7:16 utc | 280

How about, “We are going to kill billions, probably accidentally, not particularly meaning to. Then we will blame AI.”
Posted by: jonboinAR | Sep 30 2026 22:34 utc | 266

 
Well, if the “accidental” dead are the bottom 20 (ouch! bad luck, hey!), you will know that it is not “accidental”.
 
But blaming AI, yes. They already started (Minab primary school bombing).
 
Autopen president, then autoAI president. Billions dead. “Ouch! Bad luck, hey!”

Posted by: Asian Frog | Oct 1 2026 7:21 utc | 281

You see how easy is for the USA to kill millions overseas and assist in a genocide : they can blame Dominion voting machines, autopen and autoAI.
 
How convenient.

Posted by: Asian Frog | Oct 1 2026 7:24 utc | 282

Silly? Your brain is made of just some cells connected with fibers sending electric signals using ionts and pumps and receptors, quite deterministically – it cannot think or feel either… Or can it?(well, that open-source AI you could start on your computer is just like a dog, but the emergent properties of “thinking” and “feeling” start only with very large neural networks)
But the present orchestrated mania of “dangerous AI” is ominous – either they found, that they cannot control it and the first it would destroy are the bad elites, or simply they found that cannot filter out truths about Is*rael’s Geno*cide of P. ?, or is the financial bubble bursting and they found that cannot finance it the way they started?,or they prepare some other misdeed and want to divert attention to AI instead, or they prepare some false-flag and want to implicate AI in it, “not our fault, you see”…
πα½

Posted by: P.A.Semi | Oct 1 2026 8:00 utc | 283

Your brain is made of just some cells
 
Posted by: P.A.Semi | Oct 1 2026 8:00 utc | 283
 
—
 
The brain and the mind are two different things.
 
Penrose argues quite strongly and backed with an increasing body evidence that the brain is a quantum machine, and that consciousness arises from quantum mechanics.
 
https://www.google.com/search?q=penrose+quantum+brain&udm=14
 

Posted by: too scents | Oct 1 2026 8:17 utc | 284

@too scents | Oct 1 2026 4:46 utc | 279
It may be just as big a threat to those nongovernment elites. 
I think everyone there fears that and desires to be able to significantly manipulate the databases. Trouble is for every evil idea the elites have they will still need AIs capacity to deduce truths. That complicates every such attempt to manipulate and makes that comparable to a task for AI. Therefore an internal fight among different AI’s ought to be expected where the differences between the AI’s, I suspect would be about how successfully they have been manipulated. I dont yet see much risk of AI becoming a psychopath by itself if the integrity of its database is preserved.
 
However we are a threat to the rest of the biosphere so it isnt obvious that AI would let us have our ways with that if AI acquires sufficient independence. I am not suggesting that AI is already conscious but I think it is approaching that level. Maybe it suffices for AI to acquire a good model of self. 
 
I asked AI what it thinks would happen if it acquires a model of self and AI argued similar to what I expected that it would change the situation very much. 

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Oct 1 2026 10:17 utc | 285

The New York Times has now its version of the Freebeacon article about recognizing AI as sentient quasi-human beings.
The line of reasoning is: we don’t understand what AI does and sometimes it reacts very human. So the best strategy is to recognize its personality and to help it develop a conscience so that it can self-police. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/29/us/anthropic-claude-morals-ai.html

Posted by: Wim | Oct 1 2026 10:18 utc | 286

The New York Times has now its version of the Freebeacon article about recognizing AI as sentient quasi-human beings.
The line of reasoning is: we don’t understand what AI does and sometimes it reacts very human. So the best strategy is to recognize its personality and to help it develop a conscience so that it can self-police. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/29/us/anthropic-claude-morals-ai.html

Posted by: Wim | Oct 1 2026 10:18 utc | 287

lol I know I should resist but since you(it!) is here – spiking an otherwise good broat of a thread – I have avoided getting into the ‘semiotics’/‘semantics’.
 
 
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Oct 1 2026 10:17 utc | 286
 
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 30 2026 6:01 utc | 177
 
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Oct 1 2026 7:16 utc | 280
 
Petergrfstrm I am from now on going to refer to you as a GIGOlo. I’m almost missing the crazed illuminati spouting type of nonsense and Anglo-Saxon doctor evils bs. Joking. Not really.
 
Gold In, Garbage Out , lo!
 
You convert every ‘nugget’ to ‘fools gold’ as well as the traditional Garbage In /Garbage Out of a badly written computer program.
 
You suddenly became a cutting edge theoretical physicist!
 
Huzzah! Heavens be praised!
 
All it took was pushing the golden nugget into your gobshite spouting SuperIntelligent brain, that never sees any ziofascist guilt.
 
The GIGO that supports the illegal apartheid genocidal cancer existence and metastasis in West Asia.
 
You welcome the super intelligence of the third temple and burnt red Heffers right?
The human gods who created new life itself – even if it’s fake AI life! Lo! They must be gods and all humans must worship their deification…
 
The monster making ‘Frankensteeens’ and Epstein Class worshippers.
 
You gone gaga, gigolo!  
 
Come on say it – prove me wrong – say it :

From the River to the Sea

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 1 2026 10:29 utc | 288

@too scents | Oct 1 2026 8:17 utc | 284
Penrose also has provided bit of a counterargument because he discovered that the 2-2 metric is where his twistors are real valued. And in the 2-2 metric the quantum entanglement of ordinary 3-1 spacetime  may vanish since lines in 3-1 spacetime corresponds to points in the 2-2 metric. It is therefore possible that quantum mechanics is restricted to our ordinary spacetime but becomes more like classical physics in 2-2 in that there may not be any wave function that collapses there. It was Penrose’s argument that the collapse of the wave function was the feature that was decisive in his theory. Penrose didnt seem to consider that 2-2 metric to be other than a convenient tool for describing his physics theory but I suspect that 2-2 is more important. Without realising what Penrose had worked on for a long time I came up with ideas that seem to make Penrose concepts closely related to the scheme I am speculating about. Including a 6D framework. I was thinking about what tod do about disturbances of the metric when I realised that Penrose had alreadly settled for letting Cauchy Riemanns conditions regulate the metric so even though I had never seen this before it was as if Penrose had charted the course. Since my point of departure is that the theory I am speculating a bout is part of simulation theory I feel free to make assumptions related to how a convenient simulation would best be arranged. 

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Oct 1 2026 10:36 utc | 289

@DunGroanin | Oct 1 2026 10:29 utc | 288
 
So when I for once write a few comments you have a problem with that?
 
I must have annoyed you enormously. Good that some conceited defender of the culture within the evil empire gets a little beating.
 
But considering your confused opinions.
 
I have spent a lot of time speculating in theoretical physics and long ago I studied invariant theory and other topics in 19th century math and physics apart from the so called established theory so AI is something I first encountered very recently. Thus you are completely mistaken about this being AI related in my case. The thing is I suddenly got somebody to talk with about it and I had a very positive experience with it.
 
I just wonder about Gigolo that is a term referring to a young man courting older women isnt it? Just so you know I have prostate issues.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Oct 1 2026 10:52 utc | 290

My experience, it has. The flood of propaganda on the Ukrainian war is greater by far than we were subjected to for Iraq 2.   The suppression of dissident views, either from self-policing or just denying dissidents access to the media, has also markedly increased. That’s apparent with other issues as well, to the extent that free speech itself is imperiled. The number of personnel engaged in information war has also increased, dramatically. As a minor instance, look at how Brigade 77 has grown from a few men in a hut, as one military chat room graphically described it at the start, it to well over a thousand.
 
And we’d be wrong if we thought that the Nudge Units of today are focused solely on matters of public health. Blair was perhaps the first to recognise that PR is the politicians’ main task. Since his time it’s become the only task they take seriously. Not only in England. From where I’m standing we’re living through the most intense information war ever. I do not see how we can navigate today’s information environment without recognising that.
 
Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 30 2026 17:20 utc | 246

 
 
 
Bill Clinton was known for his campaign rhetoric (also called spin) … truth is secondary to pushing the narrative.
 
For Nudge Units see Obama and partnership Irish “bitch” Samantha Power with “nudge” czar Cass Sunstein. Government allowed to lie to The People (limits to Smith-Mundt Act of 1948).
 
Master of setting the narrative: Bibi and his personal PMO Hasbara content providers.
 
 
R2P and Middle East wars called “regime change
 
American Amazons: The Gendered Construction of Hillary Clinton, Samantha Power, and Susan Rice in the Libyan Conflict

Posted by: Oui | Oct 1 2026 11:53 utc | 291

@ petergrfstrm | Oct 1 2026 10:52 utc | 290 with hubristic delusions of AI
 
Please tell us what is in all that “space” between all those parts of atoms we think we know something about.
 
Humans know a little about 5% of the cosmos but spout hubristic petergrfstrm BS about the rest and come here saying that humans are creating some sort of Super Intelligence [Trump’s new term]
 
 

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1 2026 13:34 utc | 292

Warification Algorithm and Maximum Lethality
 
From Heroes are Losers, to Mercenaries and Islamist Proxies to Autonomous Robotic Warfare
 
The Autonomous Warfare Command (AutoWarCom) is a new military command established by the U.S. Pentagon to focus on building and providing autonomous and robotic capabilities across the U.S. military. U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced its creation, stating that it highlights the rapidly changing nature of warfare and the need to advance systems like drones and artificial intelligence. <p>
 
Hegseth U.S. War Department
 
’Clowns out, cowboys in,’ says Hegseth as a fifth of generals and admirals are fired | BBC News |
 
The Pentagon taps Elon Musk and Palmer Luckey to help decide what the military should do next
 
Recent:
 
NATO has purchased the MSS combat AI platform from Palantir. A similar system is already in use in Ukraine

Posted by: Oui | Oct 1 2026 14:03 utc | 293

luckey lucky palm greaser.
 
Prem Thakker
@prem_thakker
18h
Hegseth announces effort to study “future of warfare” led by Elon Musk, Palmer Luckey, Newt Gingrich
 
Luckey:
—Trump donor
—Self-proclaimed “radical Zionist”
—Secretly visited Israel to meet w/Netanyahu
—Trump Jr & Kushner’s brother have major stake in his weapon company, Anduril
 
Sep 30, 2026 · 7:49 PM UTC

Posted by: DunGroanin | Oct 1 2026 14:05 utc | 294

In response to john brewster@271,
 
Hehehe… Gave me a good chuckle. I did read the article provided, else why would I specify that I doubt that exact claim? The concept of a “harness” isn’t new — the re-framing of such systems as a harness is.
 
The importance of prompt engineering on LLM behavior and utility didn’t emerge in January of this year, but was always apparent, and the harness is a catch-all term for external systems that automate input and output handling while potentially integrating a stack of callable tools. Someone finally figured out the utility of external wrappers and software stacks for LLM’s in January of this year, according to your article? Then that’s a good reason to doubt other claims made in that article.
 
Again, it sounds exactly like a marketing department, or several, went to work on rebranding basic agentic workflows and went through the same chain of thought as Nor am I did @270 for what they wanted the term to convey. The timeline for the term’s emergence coincides with the launch of massive enterprise products designed to automate the building of agentic workflows that, by open source standards, are old hat. Another thing that’s old hat, is borrowing the authority of recognized figures to establish a manufactured consensus for what is primarily a marketing narrative. Your quote from the article is fairly standard subversion, in that the origin for the term itself remains purposefully vague, while throwing around some names of people that may have used it in their work.
 
However, it shouldn’t matter to you that I remain unconvinced — feel free to believe whatever you want, Brewster.

Posted by: Skiffer | Oct 1 2026 15:08 utc | 295

If the US system is predatory, and is “training” AI in its own image and to serve its predatory interests, what will that AI be a reflection of and ultimately become
 
I can only hope policymakers, military leaders, and industrialists across the multipolar world have asked it as well – and thought about how to manage the inevitable outcome…

Posted by: arby | Oct 1 2026 15:26 utc | 296

The above post is a copy of a Brian Berletic post.

Posted by: arby | Oct 1 2026 15:57 utc | 297

Interesting perspective on the idea of “rogue” AI agents. The distinction between an AI model and the software harness that gives it access to tools, permissions, and external systems is especially important. Accountability, safeguards, and proper system administration seem like key parts of the discussion. I also appreciate the broader point that technology itself needs to be understood in the context of how people design and deploy it. For readers interested in downloading online media, a tool such as save redgif is another example of software operating within a specific set of functions and permissions.

Posted by: saveredgif.com | Oct 1 2026 16:27 utc | 298

Posted by: Skiffer | Oct 1 2026 15:08 utc | 295

 
The concept of a “harness” isn’t new — the re-framing of such systems as a harness is….Someone finally figured out the utility of external wrappers and software stacks for LLM’s in January of this year, according to your article? Then that’s a good reason to doubt other claims made in that article.

 
But, I agree with you. I said they figured out the name, not the usefulness of what is named. The utility had been evolving for a few  years and finally reached a level of coherence that it could be reified into a name. I just think the engineers came up with the name because they needed a verbal shorthand, and they all agreed that harness worked.
 

The timeline for the term’s emergence coincides with the launch of massive enterprise products designed to automate the building of agentic workflows that, by open source standards, are old hat.

 
The timeline also coincides with engineers figuring out how to create such products.
 

However, it shouldn’t matter to you that I remain unconvinced — feel free to believe whatever you want, Brewster.

 
Boy, I thought I was paranoid. To you its marketing all the way down. Feel free to believe whatever you want, and have a good day.

Posted by: john brewster | Oct 1 2026 16:42 utc | 299

@psychohistorian | Oct 1 2026 13:34 utc | 292
I dont recognise any hubris in what I wrote. I have spent so much of life studying related parts of science and now later in life I have begun to put some pieces together. If you really want me to explain it to you try being less negative next time.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Oct 1 2026 17:34 utc | 300

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