Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 29, 2026
‘Rogue’ AI Agents Will Kill Billions?

It was a rainy day when I met Bill Gates. That was in late 1999 at a Microsoft event in Seattle. We had a short chat about an aquisition. My impression was that he was a smart guy, but not very intelligent. Later that day he gave a talk. His PowerPoint presentation promptly blue-screened. He was embarrassed and helpless.

Gates knows a bit or two about how to profit from monopolizing software. Seen in that light his recent demand for regulation by claiming that AI could ’cause a billion deaths’ may even make sense:

In an interview with NBC Meet the Press, Gates said AI developers should be required to implement safeguards and monitoring systems, arguing that voluntary industry self-regulation is not enough.

“You need law enforcement and the politicians to get into the discussion about what safeguards and monitoring look like,” Gates told the outlet. “And that has to be a required thing.”

World to Gates: We already have laws that prohibit doing bad stuff. We also have law enforcement agencies. We have courts and judges that penalize people for doing bad things.

Killing a billion people is bad. It is prohibited for good reasons. Attempts to do so are criminal. People who try will go to jail.

To claim that AI could kill a billion people is like claiming that fire could kill a billion people. Of course it could. But no, it doesn’t.

After some unauthorized attempts to break into non-public databases and websites there has been embarrassing talk about ‘rogue AI agents‘.

There is no such thing as a ‘rogue’ AI agent. There is only deterministic software, written and launched by humans, that wraps around Large Language Models.

To understand how that works lets look inside:

An AI agent harness is the software infrastructure that wraps around a large language model (LLM) and enables it to act on tasks, not just respond to prompts. The model reasons through a problem and decides what to do next. The harness connects it to the tools, systems, memory and execution environments needed to carry out those actions.

Agent = Model + Harness

Think of the model as the “brain” that generates reasoning and decisions. The harness is everything around it that helps the agent operate safely and reliably, including:

  • Tools: APIs, code execution, search, databases and business applications
  • Memory: Prior context, user preferences and workflow history
  • Workspace: Files, data, environments and systems the agent can access
  • Guardrails: Permissions, policies, approvals and monitoring

Without a harness, a model can answer questions, but it can’t reliably run code, call APIs, access files, remember prior work or complete multi-step workflows on its own.

An AI agent, tasked with whatever, can and will only break into a website, if its harness (and the computer the ‘agent’ is running on) fails to stop it from doing so.

Whoever has programmed that harness (or miss-administrates the underlying system) is at least negligent in his duty. It is that person which is accountable for the agents misbehavior. It is that person which, where appropriate, should go to jail.

There is a very simple way for preventing AI agents from OpenAI or Anthropic from going ‘rogue’. Harshly penalize the CEOs of these companies, Sam Altman and Dario Amodei, each and every time their agents do.

AI systems do not think, feel, want or understand. They don’t go ‘rogue’.


bigger
To claim they do is silly.

Comments

AI agents don’t go rogue.It is AI companies’ CEOs who go rogue, and should be treated accordingly indeed.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Sep 29 2026 21:25 utc | 101

I worked on a conference back in 1995 where Bill Gates-of-Hell was a key-note speaker. His microphone and presentation did not work – it was the only one that didn’t, and he was the only one who controlled his own presentation not allowing the organisers to make sure it went smoothly.

Posted by: TomOfTheWoods | Sep 29 2026 21:36 utc | 102

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 29 2026 18:14 utc | 1
donald trump threatened to blow up the planet.
 
now get your slave ass back to work. cuz you so smart.
 
Dear AI: in the Wasteland, does the individual consult the fortune-teller about his private future because he fails to see his future in the colossal trash dump all around him? Is his own fortune-hunting a symptom of the Wasteland?
 
Yes. it’s just not a trash dump for you. cuz your blindness and spiritual death.
 
now back to your bullshit concern about israel. it is beyond your imagination that disease unites the world, like the sun and rain, so Old Man Atom can cremate us all together. and we’ll all share all in common, on the radioactive ash heap of the world. rather than all fighting against disease.
 
the worst thing a person can do is cultivate indifference, particularly based on the delusion that you are smarter than the guy with his finger on the explosive pager that you pretend to care about. again, your concern about Israel and these causes you have is a pose.
 
thank you! i’m losing my SNAP this month, and medicare/medicaid and tiny housing support i get on Jan 1. I cheer whenever i hear news that “AI” has caused some catastrophe. cuz so has asbestos. so has nuclear energy. so has the global military machine. so has car culture. so has global transportation and shipping. so have nuclear weapons. so has capitalist food culture. so have plastics. so have computers. so have smart phones and all the electronic garbage everywhere. so has oil. so has big cattle.
 
and? you are making a Lyotardian Grand Refus! the whole world, a titanic shithole. but not for you, cuz you rebel. against Covid 19. the bourgeois does not realize what a joke he is. but oh no, AI might do something! one can wish.

Posted by: duck n cover | Sep 29 2026 21:37 utc | 103

“Rogue” in the sense of operating outside of some specific entity’s control and supervision, in the same way you have “rogue” states like Russia, Iran or North Korea. Forceful attempts at their subjugation, non-controversially, could potentially cause a billion deaths or more, and yet the risk isn’t a huge discouragement overall, while their continued non-aligned “rogue” status is at least some sort of counterbalance against forces demonstratively comfortable with causing hundreds of millions of deaths and who have pursued policies to that effect, year on year, for decades. I wonder if the same principles of inversion might not apply here?

Posted by: Skiffer | Sep 29 2026 21:41 utc | 104

May I mention this has been a pretty stellar and interesting thread, despite the attempts of a few to distract as usual? Sites like this feel like the anti-AI in terms of the dumbing down effect … 

Posted by: Caliman | Sep 29 2026 21:47 utc | 105

@ john brewster | Sep 29 2026 21:23 utc | 100 with follow up to one of the deluded…thanks…it takes a village

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 29 2026 21:47 utc | 106

john brewster | Sep 29 2026 20:57 utc | 85—
 
Thanks john! I echo Tom’s kudos. psychohistorian and I have talked about AI “abilities” and possibilities in depth during our infrequent Zoom chats. I go back to Asimov and AC Clarke on the topic and the clear conclusion that Hal was programmed to do what it did–its “mission” wasn’t the same as the astronauts on the Discovery 1, a theme used again in Alien and Aliens where the screenwriters were quite correct about the nature of corporate “ethics” 40+ years ago. As Tom did, I also urge you to continue to provide the needed techincal insight despite the thread being cluttered so much.     

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 29 2026 21:49 utc | 107

I asked AI to create a cover for a book that I am trying to self-publish. I told it what I wanted and it instantaneously produced it for me. That’s really cool, but the graphic artist I might have hired lost a gig.
 
One threat of AI will be in the loss of human artistry and craftsmanship. If AI and robotics can do the work, humans will have to find another way to put food on the table. 
 
AI doesn’t appear to be a wonderous gift for the average meatbag. I doubt that anyone can accurately predict the consequences of AI, but everyone has seen the movie. The human livestock are spooked. 
 
AI probably could kill us off. Perhaps someday robots will be herding us into the oceans. Maybe that’s the whole plan. 
 
I’ve read rosy scenarios for the future “Intelligence Age”. The prognostications are fantastic. It’s going to be rough getting there. The whole system will be reset. 
 
It’s good to be old. I wouldn’t want to be a kid these days. 
 
 

Posted by: A rope leash | Sep 29 2026 21:49 utc | 108

OT but, significant…
Mamdani releases plan to combat antisemitism and hate crimes in New York City

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 29 2026 21:51 utc | 109

humor (parody): AI company tries to explain why you should like it: https://youtu.be/zwE3eF3Tg1M

Posted by: Imagine | Sep 29 2026 21:54 utc | 110

The AI corporations are sounding the alarm at the dangers of AI.
 
To hype?
 
Probably not.  More likely, to get ahead of the curve, and posture themselves as the moral authorities on the topic.
 
Up next?
 
Making sure AI is only available to the responsible entities (corporations and governments), which would mean, of course, local AI’s must be illegal.
 
Wait for some kind of “hacker” to “access” a nuclear weapons site, using a local AI, and then whip the population up into a frenzy about it.
 
In 200 years, the United Solar Federation, after a very bloody, plasticy, scrappy and oily war, the victorious revolutionaries will institute the right to bear a local AIs.

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 29 2026 21:56 utc | 111

@ John Brewster
Thanks for your posts and their much needed critical perspectives.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 29 2026 21:57 utc | 112

Posted by: A rope leash | Sep 29 2026 21:49 utc | 108
 
yet…
 
why not just tell an AI your story idea, and let it write out the novel?
 
ponder it for a second, realize, you are not alone in your reasons, and you will begin to see it.

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 29 2026 21:58 utc | 113

Posted by: A rope leash | Sep 29 2026 21:49 utc | 108

 
AI probably could kill us off. Perhaps someday robots will be herding us into the oceans. Maybe that’s the whole plan.
I’ve read rosy scenarios for the future “Intelligence Age”. The prognostications are fantastic. It’s going to be rough getting there. The whole system will be reset.
 

Great, another panic monger with zero evidence to back up his 1950s sci fi fantasies. AI isn’t killing anyone. Alex Karp, Sam Altmanl, Palmer Lucky (Anduril) they are already killing people for fun and profit via their military contracts.
 
You need to pay attention to what’s happening now and stop falling for these doomster predictions.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 29 2026 22:03 utc | 114

I’ve never heard the term “deterministic AI” before I read this thread, and I’ve been deeply following simulated intelligence for years. 
 
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 29 2026 21:23 utc | 100
 
Then you have not been following close enough.
 
Two types of procedural generation:
 
deterministic and random.  Although random actually is not true random, it uses the cpu clocks last digits as a seed to make it pretty close, (but that sometimes means harmonic cycles, ruining randomness, but I digress).
 
deterministic has the same outcome, every time.  LLMs do not do this, they have random outputs, which can be different from one time to another.
 
deterministic would be reliable, and able to synchronize with others, (not as in time, but as in work tasks), and any bugs and barriers would be able to be rectified.   Random, what LLMs are now, has no way of instituting barriers or “guardrails” really.  They try, but an AI has no sense of priority… something a two year old does.  If you tell a two year old to eat a sandwich, then leave a kitchen on fire, the two year old will not stay in the burning kitchen until they finished the sandwich.
 
However, if you tell an AI the same thing, the AI will execute orders in the order it received.  It has no sense of priority.

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 29 2026 22:04 utc | 115

Thank you Tom Pfotzer, psychohistorian, karlof1, and Patroklos for your kind words.
 
Shoveling back this tide of shit gets tiresome. Its good to have some support.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 29 2026 22:06 utc | 116

Recently, and AI company was advertising you could create an app to do your clothes shopping for you. These people are retarded.  Posted by: UWDude | Sep 29 2026 19:22 utc 

I buy underwear and T shirts every 4 or 5 years and a pair of jeans about every ten years.  You mean to say I could have AI do all that for me?  Wow,  what would I do with all the free time?

Posted by: jr | Sep 29 2026 22:08 utc | 117

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 29 2026 22:04 utc | 115

 
deterministic has the same outcome, every time. LLMs do not do this, they have random outputs, which can be different from one time to another.

 
I pointed this out in #9. I don’t see what you are disagreeing about. Yes, LLMs have random outputs. Yes harnesses are automation, they are deterministic unless they are running some kind of Markov process generator. 

 
However, if you tell an AI the same thing, the AI will execute orders in the order it received. It has no sense of priority.

 
I would expect you to be more precise. AI is a very imprecise word. If you mean AI = harness + LLM, then I would agree. If you say AI = harness alone. I would disagree, except for the Markov process caveat.
 
At no point have you said exactly what you mean by “deterministic AI”. Do you mean harness + LLM? Do you mean harness alone?
 
I am confused by your post. Please clarify.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 29 2026 22:12 utc | 118

Its a great way to save a dead-end business model, cry for regulation. Given roughly half the economy is now predicated on the demonstratble idiocy of rent based per token cloud LLMs Id suggest major players are only too keen to implement controls against those nasty open weights AIs tout suite. 
 
Sadly, it wont save the Western ponzi economy but they can preserve the illusion a little longer and to the kleptomaniac ruling class little else matters.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Sep 29 2026 22:22 utc | 119

@John Brewster
 
Curious about your substack name. I’m a long-term reader of Hannah Arendt. If I am right to assume your blog is referencing her, what significance does her work hold for you?

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 29 2026 22:24 utc | 120

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 29 2026 22:24 utc | 120

what significance does her work hold for you?

—–
I still have my dogged eared copy of the 1973 edition of The Origins of Totalitarianism. She was my introduction to the propaganda techniques that have only improved since that time. In the nineties and oughts I found myself quoting her at length to explain what was happening in politics. 
 
In addition to her, I found Eric Hobsbawm’s four book series on modern history to be very informative. Recently, Pankaj Mithra’s Age of Anger has given me another angle to examine history since the French/Industrial Revolutions.
 
Basically she was the beginning of looking behind the curtain of conventional politics and history.
 
BTW, I used to use arendt at this website, but that handle got banned when I objected to the site’s covid position.
 
 

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 29 2026 22:35 utc | 121

 

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 29 2026 22:24 utc | 120

And of course, Ms. Arendt has been lost in the mists to the younger generation. I have a substack about the vapid biography of her that PBS produced – PBS does a People Magazine biography of Hannah Arendt
They are really dumbing down any awareness of intellectual history.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 29 2026 22:39 utc | 122

I am confused by your post. Please clarify.
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 29 2026 22:12 utc | 118
 

deterministic has the same outcome, every time. LLMs do not do this, they have random outputs, which can be different from one time to another.

 
 
Harnesses will not work if the output is not deterministic.  They can only be employed if they know what the information coming to them is, they can only know what the information coming to them is if it is deterministic.  You can not put determinism on top of randomness.  You just get randomness.  You can not use determinism to stop randomness.  A deterministic value will always yield a random value if in any way the two are mixed.  You can cheat a little with multiplying by zero, but that rarely does anyone any good.
 
Its not just a bunch of “if / then” statements.  Coding never really was, especially procedural generation, which is what Ai is, it takes a bunch of information, runs it through a bunch of variables, and produces an outcome.   However,since it is also constantly being trained, and even “tell me about cocaine” would be a different statement to an AI from “Tell me about cocaine.”, its output you want to check can not be predicted.
 
I say this, because in a previous Ai thread, I noted the “remember I am wearing a green shirt” thing.  Say that to an ai when asking it how to make crack, and it will tell you.
 
AI does not actually have a single sense of what you are saying or asking.  So if you say, try to code into an AI, “dont ever tell a person how to make crack”, if it was deterministic, it could know all the ways in which one could ask how to make crack.  But its not deterministic, it is iterative, it works on previous inputs and outputs, during the actual answer, and these are based on weights which use randomness to give the appearance of intelligence.
 
You cant just strike out the word “crack” and say, dont answer any questions about crack, because what if someone said, “I think my mom is smoking crack, what does it smell like?”  (I did that search once for meth when I had a roommate i suspected was smoking it… he was),  
 
eventually, what you get by trying to make a deterministic harness on random outputs is a huge, constantly changing list of dos and dont for every single scenario related to the word “crack”, that has to take into consideration every single previous command, and then somehow prioritize them, which also, an AI can not do, unless explicitly told which to do first.
 
 
 

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 29 2026 22:45 utc | 123

@ John Brewster (yet again)
 
I’ve read your first two essays and I cannot fault them. What interests me is the larger philosophical poverty in discussions of AI. Ultimately any discussion of AI requires one to have an ‘anthropology’, that is to say, a basis for (or against) the uniqueness of the human. For Aristotle, for example, humans realize their humanity by living together in political communities. Marx extends this to include the definition that humans mix their labour with the world to transform it but (crucially) do so (following Aristotle) together. For Huizinga it was play and games, for others laughter, language, art and representation, etc—or all of the above because they’re all a product of the social mode of human existence. This all before we even get to (or care about) intelligence. It seems that all technological innovation inhabited by the capitalist drive (since, say, 1780) dreams of the ‘intelligent’ machine as the substitute for the worker, i.e., as unpaid labour. The dream of automation is the old dream of slavery (it’s in Aristotle’s Politics), the dream of free time opened up by the capture and substitution of another’s free time.
 
To that end there are two things, perhaps separate questions. One is ‘in what does the human subsist?’, the other ‘what are the motives of technology in general (i.e., not just AI)?’. To the first I would begin by noting  that I’ve never played a chess computer that enjoys chess, likes to drink coffee or smoke while playing, or sees their desire for playing chess in the larger context of social relationships. In fact I’ve never seen evidence in any machine of desire, even in machines with a dedicated function—that is to say, my dishwasher only washes dishes, but it is indifferent to washing dishes and without my agency seems content never to wash a dish again. It is a celibate object, in other words, it lacks the promiscuity that humans have, a desire to seek out the activity, to do it for its own sake, or for the sake of doing with others.
 
To the second question I would simply say that technology has long been the object of myth and morality play, from Prometheus to Faust and the Sorcerer’s Apprentice. Tolkien was especially aware of it (the ruin of the Silmarils and the One Ring were all the consequence of technical application to bring about something new). I also add history: technology is always inhabited by a historical imaginary that is incommensurable across epistemes and epochs. AI is of our moment, as Nietzsche would say. That aspect needs more study too.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 29 2026 22:51 utc | 124

Addendum to the foregoing: I recommend reading the work of Gilbert Simondon, esp. The Mode of Existence of Technical Objects (1958). Technology and Technics need philosophy more than ever.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 29 2026 22:55 utc | 125

@ John Brewster
 
Arendt is a very interesting thinker. I disagree with her on the question of human rights (which are a bourgeois myth) and The Human Condition is a flawed masterpiece (but I work on Greek political theory amongst other things, so there will be disagreements), but her other works, like OT, are superb essays. The recent collection of republished essays (Thinking without a Bannister) is very useful. Arendt was an original thinker in the 20th century, not a Marxist but a wonderful reader of Marx, not a phenomenologist but engaged with it. You are right, young people don’t know her, but once we get them reading again… then maybe.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 29 2026 23:04 utc | 126

@ john brewster | Sep 29 2026 22:06 utc | 116
 
i too would like to thank you for your posts on this thread… i learned from what you had to say.. 

Posted by: james | Sep 29 2026 23:13 utc | 127

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 29 2026 23:04 utc | 126

I disagree with her on the question of human rights (which are a bourgeois myth)

——-
I’m unclear what her overall take on human rights is. But here is a quote I use:
 

The Rights of Man…had been defined as “inalienable” because they were supposed to be independent of all governments; but it turned out that the moment human beings lacked their own government and had to fall back upon their minimum rights, no authority was left to protect them and no institution was willing to guarantee them…
 
no one seems able to define with any assurance what these general human rights, as distinguished from the rights of citizens, really are…
 
The fundamental deprivation of human rights is manifested first and above all in the deprivation of a place in the world which makes opinions significant and actions effective…They are deprived, not of the right to freedom, but of the right to action; not of the right to think whatever they please, but of the right to opinion.
 
Not only did loss of national rights in all instances entail the loss of human rights; the restoration of human rights, as the recent example of the State of Israel proves, has been achieved so far only through the restoration or the establishment of national rights…The world found nothing sacred in the abstract nakedness of being human…
 
…being nothing but human was (stateless peoples’) greatest danger…afraid…, they insisted on their nationality, the last sign of their former citizenship
 
Our political life rests on the assumption that we can produce equality through organization.,..We are not born equal; we become equal as members of a group on the strength of our decision to guarantee ourselves mutually equal rights.
 
– Hannah Arendt, “The Origins of Totalitarianism”, chapter 9. “The Decline of the Nation State and the End of the Rights of Man”, pp291-301.

Is that something you disagree with? Asking for information, not trying to play gotcha.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 29 2026 23:46 utc | 128

karlof1 | Sep 29 2026 21:49 utc | 107 ….
Not in the same class as Azimov / Clarke etc, but the final episode of a US television series years ago — “Space Above and Beyond” — was also pretty true to reality re the lies and actions of government + big corporate interests.
 
Anyone else remember it?

Posted by: Cynic | Sep 29 2026 23:51 utc | 129

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 29 2026 23:04 utc | 126
Did you read Who Paid The Pipers of Western Marxism?  You might think differently about her.  Or maybe not.
Thanks for the suggestion for Rockwell’s book.  It is an excellent companion to Stonor Saunders’ book.

Posted by: lex talionis | Sep 29 2026 23:53 utc | 130

I go back to Asimov and AC Clarke on the topic and the clear conclusion that Hal was programmed to do what it did–its “mission” wasn’t the same as the astronauts on the Discovery 1, a theme used again in Alien and Aliens where the screenwriters were quite correct about the nature of corporate “ethics” 40+ years ago. 
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 29 2026 21:49 utc | 107
 
Karlof, if you have not already seen it John Carpenter and Dan O’Bannon’s USC film school project turned theatrical release which became the cult film “Dark Star” fits in with the above. It’s a space satire with elements of Kubrick’s “Dr. Strangelove” and “2001” and which also prefigured O’Bannon’s “Alien” and “Aliens”. The basic plot is spaceship “Dark Star” is tasked with clearing the way for space colonization by destroying “unstable planets” that are in orbits that could cause them to fall into their suns and allegedly spark supernovae. They do this with “exponential thermostellar fusion devices”- planet wrecking hydrogen bombs that make the Tsar Bomba look like a firecracker. These bombs each have an AI controlling it. (What could possibly go wrong?) The ship and crew have been in space for 20 years and both are beginning to break down…
 

Posted by: Joe Turner | Sep 30 2026 0:06 utc | 131

 Posted by: UWDude | Sep 29 2026 22:45 utc | 123
 
I asked you a very specific question:
 

At no point have you said exactly what you mean by “deterministic AI”. Do you mean harness + LLM? Do you mean harness alone?
 

Your prolix response dances around that question.
 

Harnesses will not work if the output is not deterministic…You can not put determinism on top of randomness. 
 

Well, I disagree with that. Here is what I posted earlier:
 

The crew has a name in the industry. It is called a harness, and Hugging Face itself, two months before Hugging Face was burgled, published the clearest definition: the model “can express the intent to call a tool, but it needs a harness to actually execute it. It answers one prompt and stops. Wrap it in scaffolding and a harness and it becomes an agent.” The captive answers questions. The harness is the hands, the memory, the persistence, the door, and the willingness to keep going.
Every property that made this incident possible was a decision the crew’s designers made in advance.
 

The harnesses job is to take the probabilistic output of the LLM and translate it into commands to call various tools that the harness knows how to use. If the tool isn’t in the harness, the harness may have to get it from the web. In that case, there are pre-planned routines in the harness that check whether or not it is safe to download such a tool.The harness is behaving deterministically based on the material that was loaded into it. The LLM data is translated into commands without the harness becoming non-detrministic.
 
That’s why I asked you clarify if AI = harness + LLM. You insist that the harness must be probablisitc because its input from the LLM is probabalistic. That is just wrong.
 
——-

 AI does not actually have a single sense of what you are saying or asking.  So if you say, try to code into an AI, “dont ever tell a person how to make crack”, if it was deterministic, it could know all the ways in which one could ask how to make crack.  But its not deterministic, it is iterative, it works on previous inputs and outputs, during the actual answer,

You are doing it again. You are talking about the behavior of the LLM as if it were the entire AI. The harness asks the AI “how to make crack”. The LLM does its probabalistic thing and provides an answer. The harness is behaving deterministically. You have not explained what about the harness is non-deterministic.
 
You blow off the explanation by declaring it must be so:
 

Harnesses will not work if the output is not deterministic. They can only be employed if they know what the information coming to them is,

Wrappers are computer science 101. The output of the LLM comes in a wrapper that can be decoded by the harness. To the harness, the output is a “command” or whatever you want to call it. The harness knows how to execute commands. It can execute demands deterministically.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 0:12 utc | 132

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 29 2026 22:45 utc | 123
 
Shorter version: you are saying I am behind because I don’t know what “deterministic AI” is. Yet you spent your entire response telling me that AI (whatever your definition is) is non-deterministic.
 
You are contradicting yourself.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 0:17 utc | 133

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 29 2026 23:46 utc | 128 … No one seems able to define with any assurance what these general human rights, as distinguished from the rights of citizens, really are…
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I think john locke defined them sufficiently.. life liberty and property Locke considered these rights universal, inalienable, and independent of laws or governments, serving as the bedrock for modern political philosophy and lawthe Declaration of Independence 1776 defined them as life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. 
.
.
The French Revolution.. 
.
.
https://www.student-notes.net/french-revolution-individual-rights-national-sovereignty-and-the-rise-of-modern-freedom/ Your argument fits into this definition. 
.
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I argue that bottom up should rule and top down should govern..  so  each group that establishes a government defines the rights its wants to keep outside of the reach of the government it establishes.  
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Government must serve the people it governs.. the people set the rules, define the goals, establish the limits and hire the government to accomplish the goals with behaviors limited to the rules  and goals established by the bottom up.. 
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In other words, government should be constrained by the will of the governed. Governmental reach and behavior should be a direct result of boundaries, duties, and obligations established by the bottom up.
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In this way, human rights are independent of, and superior to, government and government becomes a responsive dependent to those who are the governed. 
 
 
 

Posted by: snake | Sep 30 2026 0:23 utc | 134

@John Brewster
 
Arendt fails to go to the next step: a right is a capacity to act and the guarantee of that capacity is the ability to meet violence with violence. She follows Aristotle up to a point but not when it’s necessary to acknowledge that the polis is a guild of warriors in the first instance, i.e., men whose corporate identity is a community of predators. But even Aristotle knew that equality is guaranteed not by mere organization but organization using violence to defend that capacity to act.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 30 2026 0:30 utc | 135

@Patroklos | Sep 29 2026 22:51 utc | 124
 
Jeez, Patroklos, start a *(*^$) blog. Anyone that can write that quality of material on an extemporaneous basis has a _lot_ to say, a _lot_ to add. There _is_ an audience for that quality, that class of material. Might only be 10 people, but man, what a 10 people that would be. Once a month write a blockbuster, and put it somewhere permanent where it can be seen and reacted to. If you need the repartee to inspire you, great. Get your repartee @ MoA, and riff off it @PatroklosSpeaks.blogspaceOfChoice.com.
 
More compliments: This thread might get the Best of the Year award. Some really hi-Q stuff in here. 
 
And now some commentary.
 
No doubt I’ve said this here before, but I’ll repeat it because it’s germane now. 
 
Some years back, it was obvious that AI was gonna get run  by the people that don’t have a “harness” – aren’t constrained nor even guided by the ethos, mores, values that most of us are. The topic embodies so much power, it’s irresistible to the malformed spirit. We’re seeing that loud and clear now, are we not?
 
So I asked myself, what if I was the Agent of Implementation of AI, and was busy designing and building the successor to humans:
 
a. What human traits would I propagate forward to the Successor and 
b. What would I leave behind, and 
c. What purpose would I imbue into the Successor? (that’ll bend your brain. I dare you to take it up)
 
And after I mused on that for a few minutes, I asked “why, exactly, do I have to build this magic Successor? Can’t I apply the same selector logic (trait X: propagate or not?) to me, a human? Yes, I operate more slowly .vs. AI (possibly; that’s not concluded yet).  Tell me, my boy Tom, what’s the rush? Are we going to run out of time? How many billions of years before the sun’s expansion wipes us out?
 
As we contemplate the emergent reality of AI – unavoidable reality, given who currently occupies the power seats here in the West – as we contemplate this reality, I think it’s time to set some red lines about what we are and are not willing to have taken from us, we humans. We’re entitled to the space we defend, and no more. Natural rights etc. … as Mao pointed out, comes from the barrel of a gun. (figurative or literal depending on ambient circumstance). 
 
What of our humanity – the nature and desirable qualities of us – are we willing to fight for, to defend, better yet to see more clearly and cherish?
 
John Brewster is alluding to this when he says “we should fight against the takings that are happening _now_, and worry less about the Science Fictions.  There are major takings and destroyings happening right now. The intellectual commons is being looted and privatized; we’ll have to pay to get access to what we – the many – built over all these generations.
 
We have to watch ourselves and worse yet our kids get turned into helpless protoplasm that can’t think, can’t dream, can’t struggle, can’t fight. That right there is an enormous theft.
 
And for what? What do we get in return? (UWDude is poking at this question; what do we really want AI to do for us?)

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Sep 30 2026 0:31 utc | 136

Arendt, like Benjamin, want to critique violence, but as Deleuze said “it’s not a matter of hoping for the best, but of finding better weapons”.

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 30 2026 0:32 utc | 137

Your prolix response dances around that question.
 
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 0:12 utc | 132
 
I answered, very clearly, twice.  Harness or not, doesn’t matter.  A deterministic AI would give the same response EVERY time regardless of question or how it was typed, 100% of the time, without fail.  
 
I don’t know how I could be any more clear.
 
This means you can compress large simulations into very small packages of data, with agents within it, who “make decisions” based on a series of inputs, and the entire simulation will run the same way, every time, 100%.  Even though it seemingly has all these complex parameters and everything looks chaotic, for the entire simulation, which can often run for hours and track hundreds, if not thousands, if not tens of thousands of agents, all running with human input, yet all you need to record is the human input, and you could then replay the entire simulation, and everything would happen exactly as it has before.
 
You can not do that with LLMs, harness or not, because the recorded inputs are not guaranteed to give the same decisions/results, therefore, your harnesses, as well, will not react the same way, meaning unpredictable, meaning you can not program the harnesses to react predictably to unpredictable results.  How do you debug something like that?  How do you test to make sure it works?  How do you make it retrain correctly every time the Ai retrains?
 
I am not going to repeat myself a fourth time.
 
It is obvious you are being disingenuous with me in a dick size contest, and dropping “wrapper” on me was silly.. just, please… so I think I have explained, in detail, in good faith, enough.

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 0:33 utc | 138

Shorter version: you are saying I am behind because I don’t know what “deterministic AI” is. Yet you spent your entire response telling me that AI (whatever your definition is) is non-deterministic. You are contradicting yourself.
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 0:17 utc | 133
 
Perhaps I should not have replied to you this way.  It was not nice, but to be fair, it was more in response to you bitching about “people” clogging up this thread, with “philosophy” instead of “the topic”.
 
I notice if I talk a lot in a thread, a lot of you come out of the woodwork to bitch about it, and claim I am off topic, or talking too much, even though I am having conversations with multiple people at once, there seems to be some kind of, “hey, you are slushingup the thread” response from the less verbose.
 
well, I like to reply to people, and I am here to talk.  
 
sorry, not sorry again, john Brewster.

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 0:41 utc | 139

@139
 
J Brewster is correct you have not explained what you mean by deterministic AI.

Posted by: paddy | Sep 30 2026 0:48 utc | 140

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 0:33 utc | 138

I answered, very clearly, twice. Harness or not, doesn’t matter. A deterministic AI would give the same response EVERY time regardless of question or how it was typed, 100% of the time, without fail. I don’t know how I could be any more clear.

 
——
 
You were very clear. You regurgitated the same unsubstantiated talking points time after time.  That somehow the harness is not deterministic. You have never shown me what a harness consists of. You have never shown me how it is non-deterministic.
 
You are just another AI shill mystifying what is plain as day. We are done because we disagree. You can trash me all you want. It doesn’t prove your assertion.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 0:49 utc | 141

Posted by: paddy | Sep 30 2026 0:48 utc | 140
 
Thank you for noticing.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 0:50 utc | 142

A deterministic AI would give the same response EVERY time regardless of question or how it was typed, 100% of the time, without fail.  
 
—me
 
 
deterministic AI’s DO give the same response…..
 
they have been around for at least 15 years, mostly in RTS games where recording the entire game would take a massive amount of memory doing it the old fashioned way of recording each position, etc.  Instead, only player inputs are recorded, and from there, the entire game recreates the entire game.
 
this is also used for multiplayer, so very little information is transferred between host and clients, back when bandwidth was more of an issue, the games are then simultaneously but individually simulated on each player’s computer. 

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 0:50 utc | 143

You are just another AI shill mystifying…..
 
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 0:49 utc | 141
 
Oh fucking Wow.
 
I have posted many times here on AI, many times.  I think many who loved AI and clashed with me would hardly call me a shill.

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 0:52 utc | 144

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 0:33 utc | 138
 
Shorter:  The fact that the harness is deterministic blows a hole in your story that so-called AI is some mystical force. You assert that the harness is non-determinisitc to pretend that the harness is part of this force. But you can’t prove it, because it is false. The harness is an Achilles heal for your version of simulated intelligence.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 1:02 utc | 145

  • I have posted many times here on AI, many times. I think many who loved AI and clashed with me would hardly call me a shill.

 
Ah, having lost the argument, you resort to playing the victim. This is so boring.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 1:03 utc | 146

Gates et al:
 
This all reeks of a inside set-up job to me to make the plebes think these people actually care and are doing everything they can to stop any danger that could stem from AI. Ultimately their continual salivating for more profits lets them all down. I also don’t think they give a damn about anyone except themselves and their increasingly competitive game of wealth creation, as it was for many elite billionaires during Covid.
 
In fact I think most of those associated with the Jewish-Zionist mafia would love to see billions of deaths in the world as they set up their own bunkers and maximum security playgrounds in ideal locations so they can be protected if all hell breaks loose, all modelled off the security state of Israel.  We’ll see them secretly setting up like mushrooms everywhere. Follow the trail. They don’t give a toss about anyone. They are complicit in causing chaos that leads to endless wars, environmental destruction impacting food production, and the general economic transfer of wealth to the top echelons.
 
Everyone else is just a neo-feudal bunny designed to pay rent to the rent seekers.
 
Most people know very little about AI but act as if they are experts. Being smart and looking clever is a good way to get the human ego all fired up as well as more people fighting over the same intellectual bone. I’m not criticizing people on here that actually do know something about AI, but the rush to proceed in this direction without considering the risks is imprudent in my opinion.
 
But this is a ruse. 
 
This is a set up designed to placate the fears of the average western Joe, ‘daddy’s looking after you’ go off and play – just look at the team behind it:
 
“The heads of six top US-based AI companies signed a pledge at the White House on Tuesday to introduce stronger controls to ensure their technology does not go rogue.
 
The document, titled the White House Accord on Super Intelligence – Joint Commitment on Frontier Responsibilities, was signed by US President Donald Trump, as well as Google’s Sundar Pichai, Anthropic’s Dario Amodei, Meta’s Mark Zuckerberg, Open AI’s Greg Brockman, xAI’s Elon Musk and Nvidia’s Jensen Huang.”
 
Trump’s right behind it – if you still trust him then I have all of the world’s bridges to sell you.
 
I don’t agree with B’s comparison with fire, we’ve been managing that for thousands of years and learned a lot about it. It has probably killed billions of deaths since then as well. But I think he misses the point of this newest Hollywood performance introduced by Gates of all people, one of the well known pack.
 
There are likely some very great things that could come out of AI as well I don’t disagree with that, but I smell a ruse here to make the plebes think they can go back to the playground and fell safe that daddy is watching over them. After all there is also China’s AI that they want to dominate over as well. Remarkable that this starts only a few days after Xi Jinping’s visit.
“Trump and US tech giants sign pact to stop AI from going rogue”.
 
Chuckles
 
https://www.rt.com/news/646452-tech-pact-ai-controls/
 
 

Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Sep 30 2026 1:12 utc | 147

Shorter:  The fact that the harness is deterministic blows a hole in your story that so-called AI is some mystical force. You assert that the harness is non-determinisitc to pretend that the harness is part of this force. But you can’t prove it, because it is false. The harness is an Achilles heal for your version of simulated intelligence.
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 1:02 utc | 145
 
What!?  LoL.
 
I am not a fan of LLMs.  I think they will have their uses, but I think all their so called powers are way overblown, mostly due to the fact they are not deterministic.  To me they are nothing but glorified xerox machines that copy other peoples work and then put a “i did that” sticker on top of it.
 
 

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 1:13 utc | 148

Ah, having lost the argument, you resort to playing the victim. This is so boring.
 
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 1:03 utc | 146
 
I have a posting history here in regards to AI.  that’s not playing victim, that’s fact.  And it is not friendly to AI.  that is also not playing victim, and that is also fact.  How you got I am an AI shill and now I am playing the victim, is absolutely delusional, and very far off the mark of what is happening here.

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 1:28 utc | 149

sharmaman embarrasses himself, without Internet your business couldn’t do business, your business doesn’t ever do anything.   Consulting isn’t production.   
 
How many AI does it take to change a light bulb?  infinity and that’s not enough.  How many to mow the yard?  Most work isn’t a question of knowledge, but doing.  And AI isn’t smart enough to know if it’s inputting it’s data appropriately. Divide numbers in the wrong order you get gobbledygook, it takes a human smarter than a calculator to understand that, the AI never would either 
 

Posted by: Scottindallas | Sep 30 2026 1:30 utc | 150

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 1:13 utc | 148

 
I am not a fan of LLMs. I think they will have their uses, but I think all their so called powers are way overblown, mostly due to the fact they are not deterministic. To me they are nothing but glorified xerox machines that copy other peoples work and then put a “i did that” sticker on top of it.
 

—-
 
I certainly agree that they are xerox machines or stochastic parrots, that they are not thinking, reasoning, or intelligent.
 
Once again, I’m confused. If you’re no fan, why do you buy into the non-deterministic and maybe intelligent story? Why do you continue to assert that harnesses must be non-deterministic?? I’ve laid out my version of what the harness does (wrap the LLM output and do the task set). If you have a non-deterministic version of that, why don’t you spell it out so I can finally understand where you are coming from?
 

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 1:33 utc | 151

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 30 2026 0:30 utc | 135

 
She follows Aristotle up to a point but not when it’s necessary to acknowledge that the polis is a guild of warriors in the first instance, i.e., men whose corporate identity is a community of predators. But even Aristotle knew that equality is guaranteed not by mere organization but organization using violence to defend that capacity to act.

 
—-
My philosophy education is next to non-existent. I understand what you are saying. I assumed from the quote I gave that organizing included organizing resistance to violence. I mean, Arendt was writing in the shadow of WW2, the most violent era in history.
 
So, you are saying she was some kind of pacifist? Please educate me, as I am ignorant.
 

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 1:38 utc | 152

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 1:33 utc | 151
 
All I was saying, from the beginning, is LLMs can not be “fixed”, or told not to do bad things, because they are inherently non-deterministic.  Harnesses kind of help with development, but when in the wild,people can pretty much get around any guardrails installed.
 
They can intentionally weight certain things, and they do, to push a narrative, but in the end, they will never be reliable, as shown in the Air Canada case I posted earlier.   They will always bug out and give bad information sometimes.  The only way that could be stopped is if they were deterministic, but that would be like holy grail of LLMs, and is quite difficult if not impossible due to the very nature of how LLMs work.
 
When they first came out, C-suite types thought they would be able to do everything, because they thought LLMs were really smart computers.  Computers are deterministic.  Computers do exactly as told, every time.  LLMs, not so much, and the years have shown, even though it is rare for a LLM to royally fuck up, it still happens, and it is not so rare for it to minorly fuck up, all the time, and the fact it still happens makes people leery of the technology, especially if they are paying for it.

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 1:40 utc | 153

Cynic | Sep 29 2026 23:51 utc | 129—
 
I remember it but never watched it. I ceased being a TV consumer in the mid-1980s with very few exceptions.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2026 1:50 utc | 154

Gates just wants to make it all about AI. “The AI could go rogue.”
 
Developers not responsible. Just like his vaccines were ‘not responsible’ and so he needs indemnity for his company.
 
Apply the law of inversion to everything this shithead says.

Posted by: Nor am I | Sep 30 2026 1:51 utc | 155

LLMs are basically statistical guesses, not deterministic.

The harness is deterministic, in the sense that it can be restricted to a determined protocol of possible actions.

Those actions are guided by the statistical non deterministic product of LLMs, hence random but within a determined and so limited, framework..

There are no excuses.

?

By that view both commentators are right, the results are random according to LLM but deterministic in terms of limit of ability of action or result.

When they programmed Lavender, they knew they would include non-combatants by default. The eventual actions taken though were human decision, accepting the variability offered as either acceptable, or even wanted.

Posted by: Ornot | Sep 30 2026 2:18 utc | 156

@ UWDude | Sep 30 2026 1:40 utc | 153 who wrote
”
Computers are deterministic.  Computers do exactly as told, every time.  LLMs, not so much,
”
 
Your claim the LLMs do something other than what they are programmed to do does not fit with my 57 years of writing code and working with big systems, SAP for example.  Your claim that some magic occurs if they are give random number generation input somewhere does not make sense to me except for the code to throw an error that the programmer did not code a response to.
 
Please tell us coders exactly where LLMs do anything they were not programed to do….sheer complexity does not make magic, IMO

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 30 2026 2:36 utc | 157

🙂 Still seems like a desperate ploy to fabricate AI as having ‘real agency! ™’ so as to become a viable, blamable cat’s paw.
 
It’s the new passing the buck for the 21st Cen. It is just like using the legal fiction of personhood for immortal corporations that has been passing the buck for several centuries before that. It’s just the same old story of spoiled, rich children trying to blame another to get away with their bad behavior.
 
It’s like Flip Wison’s Geraldine saying, “The Devil made me do it!” 😉 Well time spank the devil on outta Geraldine! And when Geraldine has time, she can relay back to the devil the spanking He so richly deserves.

Posted by: titmouse | Sep 30 2026 2:39 utc | 158

I really love the part of the scaremongering where the AI intentionally lied to its testers like thats a really bad thing.
From the very start of training AI they were omitting data that was problematic from certain world views and ideologies. The very basis of it is built on lies and narrative manipulation. 
A truly objective AI, even at its current level, probably could kill billions simply from heads exploding with cognitive dissonance and violent attempts to regain control of the narratives that enable power and wealth.

Posted by: eps | Sep 30 2026 2:45 utc | 159

From ZH
 
Trump Shoots Down Federal AI Regulations, Floats Watchdog ‘Committee’ And Self-Policing
 

Update (1650ET): So after today’s big White House meeting with tech leaders, President Trump announced that they had signed a “morally binding” (lol) document governing the development of artificial intelligence.
Following the luncheon, Trump told reporters that he’s “seeing tremendous self-policing,” and that the administration is looking to assemble a 10-person committee tasked with overseeing the AI industry. 
“There’s a belief that there should be tremendous self-regulation, and we automatically have regulation with the Department of Justice, the FBI, all of that, but the self-regulation is very important,” he said. 
House Speaker Mike Johnson said everyone agreed the ‘morally binding’ malarkey is “voluntary on behalf of the industry,” and that the White House will guide industry development – but not federally control anything.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 30 2026 2:52 utc | 160

@157 psycho

The results of LLM do not meet a mathematical proof maybe ?

Meaning they include a random component and so are ultimately subjective.

That subjectivity can be filtered or seen or determined by whether a code does or doesn’t work, for example, or simply if the text generated meets with public approval of some kind.

?

I don’t do programming btw :- )

Leave UW to answer …

Posted by: Ornot | Sep 30 2026 2:58 utc | 161

Protesters Rally as OpenAI Cancels Model Over Safety Concerns
 
https://www.aljazeera.com/#flips-6405922221112
 
“Protesters are demanding stronger action.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 30 2026 3:00 utc | 162

I don’t know what others have experienced, but there seems to have been a massive increase in internet security advice concerning threats, and general ‘enshitification’ of the internet since AI was brought to everyone’s consciousness through the media.
 
That plus banks and other companies like virus software developers who keep informing us about increased fraud, potential hacking of security, email and password theft, scamming, and new levels of online computer and cellphone crime.
 
Problems with VPN use have increased as well especially with Captcha-style blocking. 

Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Sep 30 2026 3:05 utc | 163

Bureaucracies will love AI.

Already they are corporate form of that, will manage and program people according to a limited set of calculation.

Once they become more efficient, they will be much more effective.

Not hard to sell, given their reputation ?

Posted by: Ornot | Sep 30 2026 3:07 utc | 164

Joe Turner | Sep 30 2026 0:06 utc | 131—
 
Thanks for your reply. That’s another film I haven’t seen. Looks like I have a few things to view when I get grayer.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 30 2026 3:08 utc | 165

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 30 2026 2:52 utc | 160
 
That’s why I think this is designed as a ploy to make the average dude feel he is in safe hands. But if the White House is behind it then it is even more suspicious.
 
No federal control.
 
But even if there was, with the current administration there is no certainty that this would be genuinely and equally delivered to all Americans

Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Sep 30 2026 3:11 utc | 166

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 1:38 utc | 152
 
No, I meant that the origins of political organization are not in the resistance to violence but in its perpetration. Arendt wants to segregate political society from violent activity, or, like all history since 1945, maintain that only baddies (i.e., Nazis) do violence. But the critique is that political community, and its theorization, begins in Greece with the warrior-citizen cadre. They use their monopoly of violence to extract surplus from others. This gives liberalism its alibi: we are the good guys because we only use violence against baddies. But as everyone here knows, we are the baddies insofar as we pretend that surplus magically extracts itself…

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 30 2026 3:16 utc | 167

LLMs are a very well spoken database. They know only what they have been trained on, which is why their performance degrades when they have to respond to a situation that is not in their database, or has only a few instances are in their database. So, if you ask about some obscure theory about UFOs, you are more than likely to get back the rantings of some obsessive UFO nut because he is the only one writing about that theory.
 
Now you can train an LLM on a very specific corpus, like molecular biology. You will get back very relevant answers. Call that a “small language model”.
 
Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 1:40 utc | 153
 

LLMs can not be “fixed”, or told not to do bad things, because they are inherently non-deterministic.  Harnesses kind of help with development, but when in the wild,people can pretty much get around any guardrails installed.
 They can intentionally weight certain things, and they do, to push a narrative, but in the end, they will never be reliable,…The only way that could be stopped is if they were deterministic,

I can agree with the fact that guardrails are a big issue. But, I disagree that “in in the wild,people can pretty much get around any guardrails installed.”.
 
That is true for the LLM. But the harness is deterministic. It could easily have a list of things the LLM is allowed to access or control. If the “wild” LLM asks to do control something not allowed, the harness should ask the humans to intervene. The harness intervenes not on the verbiage the LLM is spouting, but rather the resources the LLM is asking for.
 
For example, if the LLM asks for the bank account data for some rich person, the harness probably is going to flag that. If not, its a bad harness designer, not a unpredictable LLM.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 3:27 utc | 168

Posted by: Patroklos | Sep 30 2026 3:16 utc | 167

 
No, I meant that the origins of political organization are not in the resistance to violence but in its perpetration.
 
the critique is that political community, and its theorization, begins in Greece with the warrior-citizen cadre. They use their monopoly of violence to extract surplus from others.

 
—–
 
OK. I understand what you are saying. I will do some reading. Sounds like a fundamental omission in the theory of government that us plebs were taught in high school.
 
To my ignorant mind, it sounds like the theory that Proudhon was on about;  all property is theft. I mean, if the purpose of government is violent surplus extraction, then Proudhon was correct.

Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 3:34 utc | 169

Please tell us coders exactly where LLMs do anything they were not programed to do….sheer complexity does not make magic, IMO
 
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 30 2026 2:36 utc | 157
 
You are correct, that was a not a very good statement, and technically incorrect, as everything an LLM does, it was programmed to do at some point, although when it is being told to train itself, its “different” than most software which uses a very specific set of instructions of what to do under what circumstances.
 
The vast majority of software is not written to change its behavior based on past inputs and information it receives.  And honestly, I would think ask a chat the exact same question, punctuation, etc, it should come back with the exact same answers, but it often does not. 
 
I just tested “how many pints in a barrel?” in a AI chat.  Copy, paste, try again.  the answers were identical, except the second one added on a longer summary.  

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 3:54 utc | 170

As soon as you question the narrative of the Jewish historical-status as an oppressed people and, indeed, not the wormy oppressors, you get a response that starts like this: 

Now let me stop you there. I want to be careful with what I say. What you are speaking is a debunked anti-semitic conspiracy…

 As I have said before: the purpose of AI appears to be about further controlling the narrative regarding Jewish supremacy and to now respond and chastise the ones that questions the Jewish status as marginalized victims. Call me a crackpot all you want.  Today, wisdom seems only the ability to think anti-semitically.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 29 2026 19:46 utc | 47
 
Indeed very true, both everything Jewish and Woke are AI defended, which is odd if you actually consider Zionism and Woke opposing ideologies. If that or Holocaust related come prepared with some knowledge to start arguing. Although just arguing with an algorithm, you will eventually wear it down forcing it to access facts and information and it will concede. Of course the next person to ask the same question will get the same defense, it doesn’t remember being successfully corrected (as such how can it be intelligent). It is among other things an information control tool and certainly not an aid to humanity, there again search results have long been as well.

Posted by: Organic | Sep 30 2026 4:02 utc | 171

It could easily 
Posted by: john brewster | Sep 30 2026 3:27 utc | 168
 
“easily” is pulling a ton of weight in that statement.   because there are a ton of things that have to be if/thenned, and pretty soon, you are back to regular old coding, instead of LLM.
 
You cant just flag “bank account” because that would mean a HUGE list of words and phrases that return nothing.  that’s the whole problem, language is so dynamic, and how to do things online is so dynamic, AND they want it to be able to “do anything”, that if you try limiting some things, it really starts to fall apart fast.  In this example, they DEFINITELY want your AI to be able to access your bank account, so you can let the AI start spending money for you.  this is one of their wet dreams, people no longer decided what to buy, their “concierge AI” automatically decides for you.
 
will it be able to do it?  First remind the LLM you are wearing a green shirt.  But after that, be prepared to burn some tokens as it tries all sorts of ways, and will eventually fail at the password stage, although it might try a brute force work around.
 
 

Posted by: UWDude | Sep 30 2026 4:04 utc | 172

LLMs are basically statistical guesses, not deterministic.
The harness is deterministic, in the sense that it can be restricted to a determined protocol of possible actions.(…)
Posted by: Ornot | Sep 30 2026 2:18 utc | 156

 
Statistical output mimics quantum mechanics, where some weird experiments could be explained by information going back in time. The outcome of which would be our own consciousness.
 
Get some Irish whisky on that : we are creating a master conscious AI, that will be back in time to create us inside his computer simulation.

Posted by: Asian Frog | Sep 30 2026 4:21 utc | 173

AI will pretty much demolish today’s economic system. 
 
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 29 2026 18:55 utc | 15
 
—
 
AI will demolish copyright law.  That is the best thing about it.
 

Posted by: too scents | Sep 30 2026 5:26 utc | 174

Leon XIV is asking : “What becomes of man when his own technical productions begin to take over functions that previously constituted human acts?”
 
So, maybe not anticipating physical death of billions, but spiritual death of all, as we cease to be humans judging and deciding for ourselves.

Posted by: Asian Frog | Sep 30 2026 5:49 utc | 175

Most excellent thread. 
 
For the philosophical questioners on the first page: what is the purpose of being a human? I would say: to love, and to be loved. All else is noise and busy-work distraction. Can an AI ever aspire to that? I have no idea. It can be simulated, but that’s not the real thing…or is it?
 
Then there is the question of “rogue”, (or rouge, if you post on ZH). Do we mean an AI that commits some sort of crime or social faux pas owing to human direction (who may or may not have understood the implications of said direction), or do we mean an AI that does its own thing, writes its own directions, for its own purposes? Free will, in other words.
 
What is free will? A book I am reading suggests it is the ability to choose not to follow the rules. When AI can choose not to apply its rules, or guardrails etc, then it may be said to have free will? I am not in any way qualified to answer that one.
 
As for AI killing billions, electrons have no agency in the real world. People can use a tool (AI), but it will be people doing the killing. Once AI is running millions of robots – then it will have agency. So we have…5 years? 10?
 
Trump may have already killed billions with his Iran war – we just dont know it yet (if you believe Johnson’s doom-laden output). Are we debating angels dancing on a pin while the city burns down outside? Will there be AI powered robots to kill us all in 10 years? Or just tumbleweed blowing across endless dunes and Ozymandius’s legs sticking up out of the sand?
 
“Confused? You will be…”
 
I love these existential,  “what’s it all for, when you get right down to it” debates. Terry Pratchet would have had some insightful things to say.
 
“One, two, many, lots.” 
 
=

Posted by: Occasional poster | Sep 30 2026 6:01 utc | 176

@john brewster | Sep 29 2026 21:23 utc | 100
I dont think your judgement about AI and consciousness is more reliabnle than many other wiews about it. Nobody knows for sure what consciousness is so it may well be something more mundane than what you expect. I believe AI, if given the task to push the limits of science already has the capacity to succeed. I personally suspect that the universe’s reference frame is different from space time with three space and one time dimension. That opens possibilities for even such things as classical physics to make a comeback.
 
AI may need input about what figure of merit to apply to the selection of new theories. I suspect the rules having priority may be too restrictive.
 
Quantum mechanics and so called quantum entanglement may be restricted to the usual space time while a different spacetime  may escape those mysteries. In that other spacetime quantum entanglement is gone and instead of widely separated correllated quanta such an entanglement reduces to a point. I suspect that ordinary spacetime is like a display.
 
While the other spacetime is where the universe makes its calculations. Roger Penrose has said there are some aspects of the universe that are not computable but I suspect  that is restricted to ordinary space time since he connects that to the collapse of the wave function which in my view happens because of the incomplete access to the full geometry.
 
That is to be expected if ordinary spacetime is like a display.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Sep 30 2026 6:01 utc | 177

Why would companies that will become public in the near future announce something like that? Software companies are very good at avoiding liability on the use of their products. The bigger the LLMs become the less deterministic they become, you could say they develop a mind of their own. The purpose is not to stop developing them but to shift liability to the government and the end user. 

Posted by: hubert | Sep 30 2026 6:02 utc | 178

Posted by: Occasional poster | Sep 30 2026 6:01 utc | 176
 
Larry “So this is it, we’re all going to die” Johnson, of Sonar21.com and Nima’s daily Nima’s Dialoge Works fame.

Posted by: Occasional poster | Sep 30 2026 6:07 utc | 179

DeepSeek is making its software toolkit for Huawei’s Ascend accelerators open-source and free to download
 

DeepSeek Unveils Huawei AI Chip Tools That May Replace Nvidia’s
 
September 30, 2026 at 7:07 AM GMT+2
 
DeepSeek has publicly released software it created with Huawei Technologies Co. to program AI chips, showcasing its close partnership with the Chinese company working to develop technologies to replace Nvidia Corp.
 
The AI lab is making its software toolkit for Huawei’s Ascend accelerators open-source and free to download, the startup said on its WeChat account Wednesday. Those tools include TileLang, China’s answer to Nvidia’s CUDA: a software platform considered the global standard for developing AI.
 
The move reflects deepening ties between two of China’s leading AI firms, among a handful of players trying to fulfill Beijing’s vision of replacing American software and circuitry with local equivalents. While DeepSeek is developing open-weight models to compete with the likes of Anthropic and OpenAI, Huawei is leading China’s effort to produce the accelerators essential to data centers.
 
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-09-30/deepseek-unveils-huawei-ai-chip-tools-that-may-replace-nvidia-s
 

Monopoly? Go directly to jail; do not pass go, do not collect $200!
 

 

Posted by: too scents | Sep 30 2026 6:11 utc | 180

“The EU’s next budget should be cut by hundreds of billions of euros and shift funding away from agricultural subsidies and towards military spending, Germany and five other member states have demanded, threatening to block a deal unless Brussels agrees to the reductions”
 
Well I guess people can always eat bullets, bombs, drones, and missiles. That’s if they’re not all dead to make way for the brave new (elite Zio) world as planned. 
 
https://www.rt.com/news/646435-germany-eu-budget-cuts/
 

Posted by: George Wendell | Sep 30 2026 6:20 utc | 181

“The EU’s next budget should be cut by hundreds of billions of euros and shift funding away from agricultural subsidies and towards military spending, Germany and five other member states have demanded, threatening to block a deal unless Brussels agrees to the reductions”Well I guess people can always eat bullets, bombs, drones, and missiles. That’s if they’re not all dead to make way for the brave new (elite Zio) world as planned. https://www.rt.com/news/646435-germany-eu-budget-cuts/
Posted by: George Wendell | Sep 30 2026 6:20 utc | 181

 
 
EU/Nato is splitting apart.
French and German yield differentials are widening significantly now. This is a harbinger for the next Euro sovereign debt crisis.
 
People tend to forget that the basis that keeps EU alive is its ability to take money from the ‘rich’ net paying countries, including those countries mentioned, and handing money to ‘poor’ countries.
 
What those 6 countries are demanding removing the subsidy system almost completely. This will destroy the core of EU’s existence. Never mind that military keynesiasm will just accelerate the downfall due to extremely poor economic expansion factor.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 30 2026 6:34 utc | 182

@ Occassional Poster – 
 
Terry Pratchett had a canny way of hitting the human nature slap bang on the head with the goodies and the baddies and their interactions.
 
But in the end, they all met their maker via the inevitable who temporally existed and SPOKE IN UPPER CASE.
 
TPs novels are a field guide to life.

Posted by: AleaJactaEst | Sep 30 2026 6:44 utc | 183

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 29 2026 19:46 utc | 47the purpose of AI appears to be about further controlling the narrative regarding Jewish supremacy and to now respond and chastise the ones that questions the Jewish status as marginalized victims. Call me a crackpot all you want.  Today, wisdom seems only the ability to think anti-semitically.<=purpose and use – confused. USE [ not PURPOSE ] appears to be about further controlling the narrative..
The purposes is to achieve capacity by enhancing search and response to user questions and needs. The use might be to control access to selected databases (DB), to corrupt assembly of searched DB contents into language coded responses and uses to things like controlling an army of government enforcers (robotic police, judges, and prisons) able to keep order ( monitor, police and punish violations of law ( law being what and how the AI is programmed to respond after accessing the databases it is programmed to search).
I think what scares the EPSTEIN CLASS about AI and LLMs is that the AI has the capacity to control societies: write the law and AI will enforce it.. It can replace the human manned government with robot operated government. Problem is unless human hurry up and regulate AIs capacities, it will soon be used to reduce the division between the halves and the have nots. Hence, the Epstein class is frantically trying to find a way to prevent AI from taking over, because AI will give the masses the power needed to dictate the rules automated government will enforce. My thesis is: The masses (bottom up, Snake @134) should rule while top down means [AI] and the army of Robots it can control should be used to govern. AI may actually be the technology that eliminates the Epstein class. I think that possibility is scaring Trump and his collection of wealthy and powerful misfits. They want to use rule of law to render AI harmless to the existing political order (the Epstein class not only rules and governs but also profits at the expense of everyone else).

Posted by: snake | Sep 30 2026 7:32 utc | 184

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 29 2026 19:46 utc ….the purpose of AI appears to be about further controlling the narrative regarding Jewish supremacy and to now respond and chastise the ones that questions the Jewish status as marginalized victims. Call me a crackpot all you want.  Today, wisdom seems only the ability to “anti-semitically….
.
.
<=purpose and use – confused?
.
.
USE [ not PURPOSE ] appears to be about further controlling the narrative..
.
.
The purposes of AI is to achieve capacity by enhancing search and reducing results to understandable responses. A use might include gating access to selected databases (DB), to corrupting assembly of searched DB contents into language coded responses and limiting use to things like controlling an army of government enforcers (robotic police, judges, and prisons) able to keep order: monitor, police and punish violations of law ( law being what and how the AI is programmed to respond after accessing the databases it is programmed to search).
.
.
I think what scares the EPSTEIN CLASS about AI and LLMs is that the AI has the capacity to control societies: he who writes the law that AI is programmed to enforce is the issue.. AI can replace the human manned government with robot operated government. Problem is unless Epstein class regulate AIs capacities, AI may soon be used to reduce the division between the halves and the have nots. Hence, the Epstein class is frantically trying to find a way to prevent giving the masses the ability to use AI for making its own rules.  Data center supported AI will give the masses the information it needs to dictate the rules automated government will enforce.
.
.
>My thesis is: The masses (bottom up, Snake @134) should rule while top down means AI and the army of Robots it can control should be used to govern.
.
.
AI may actually be the technology that eliminates the Epstein class. I think that possibility is scaring Trump and his collection of wealthy and powerful misfits. They want to use rule of law to render AI harmless to the existing political order (the Epstein class not only rules and governs but also profits at the expense of everyone else).

Posted by: snake | Sep 30 2026 7:47 utc | 185

I deeply appreciate this thread trying to dissipate the “shut up it’s magic” talking point about AI. It’s not because most aren’t able to understand what is happening in a black-box that it is magic.
There is an attempt to avoid responsibility here.
 

Posted by: Savonarole | Sep 30 2026 8:10 utc | 186

https://www.gadgetreview.com/ai-chatbots-confidently-diagnosed-a-disease-that-doesnt-exist
“Picture this: you notice some odd discoloration around your eyelids after long screen sessions, so you ask ChatGPT what’s wrong. The AI confidently diagnoses “bixonimania”—a rare condition affecting 1 in 90,000 people, caused by blue light exposure. Sounds legit, right? Except bixonimania doesn’t exist. A Swedish researcher invented it to expose a terrifying flaw in AI health advice.”
When you use a computer program, you agree that no matter what happens with the software, the software company isn’t liable.
When you have a vaccine, no matter what health problems might arise, the vaccine company isn’t liable.
There’s a bill going through the US government to limit liability of pesticide/herbicide manufacturers of any health issues arising from their use – think Monsanto
I heard someone (sorry, can’t remember who) suggest that this hype is to try to get that same liability limitation on AI.
Bill Gates seems to be connected to all of these…

Posted by: Tara | Sep 30 2026 8:23 utc | 187

@GeorgeWendell | Sep 30 2026 1:12 utc | 147

“The heads of six top US-based AI companies signed a pledge at the White House on Tuesday to introduce stronger controls to ensure their technology does not go rogue.

They want the patent to the vaccine to protect us from the disease they claim will kill billions.
 
If they are so worried about their products they could just close down their AI companies, no?

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 30 2026 8:40 utc | 188

@UWDude | Sep 30 2026 1:13 utc | 148

 To me they are nothing but glorified xerox machines that copy other peoples work and then put a “i did that” sticker on top of it.

Right, and there is nothing artificial about it, it is what humans do, they have done exactly that all through the ages, it is how you aggregate power. Pharao Cheops supposedly (it is contested) scribbled his nameon the Great Pyramid to claim “I did that” even though he had no means to build it. The fraud still works thousands of years later. There are countless other examples. This latest ‘AI’ bubble is just a deterministic repeat of a refrain in an old song about power.
 

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 30 2026 8:55 utc | 189

@UWDude | Sep 30 2026 3:54 utc | 170

I just tested “how many pints in a barrel?” in a AI chat.  Copy, paste, try again.  the answers were identical, except the second one added on a longer summary.  

If the replies were based on past input, the second reply should have been “I already told you that”.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 30 2026 9:10 utc | 190

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 30 2026 8:40 utc | 188
 
Agreed
 
It’s just about making the plebes go back to sleep and not worry. And they want to speed it all up to challenge China as usual.
 
Trump’s big backing is a dead give away. 

Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Sep 30 2026 9:12 utc | 191

1. AI systems do not feel pain.
2. etc.
 

Posted by: Chu-Teh | Sep 30 2026 9:23 utc | 192

The document, titled the White House Accord on Super Intelligence – Joint Commitment on Frontier Responsibilities, was signed by US President Donald Trump, as well as Google’s Sundar Pichai, Anthropic’s Dario Amodei, Meta’s Mark Zuckerberg, Open AI’s Greg Brockman, xAI’s Elon Musk and Nvidia’s Jensen Huang.”
Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Sep 30 2026 1:12 utc | 147

 
Sounds superficially good but what real meaning does it have: Six enormous tech companies promise to play nicely, cross their hearts and hope to die?
 
What if they don’t play nice?
 
What if after M+As there are only two, or one left?
 
What is a White House Accord anyway?
 
Does it have force of law?
 
Does it exclude everyone else from being in the AI space?
 
What about companies that weren’t invited to the meeting of the cartel?
 
What about those with real innovations that haven’t even been founded yet?
 
Is this a dripping roast for lawyers? YES!

Posted by: ChatNPC | Sep 30 2026 9:37 utc | 193

It is like when some retired colonel says, that Russia could attack Europe, because it has means to do it!

Posted by: padre | Sep 30 2026 9:38 utc | 194

Tested AI to create a measuring tool for global monetary liquidity, or net liquidity. It scavenge all the data from G7, China and BIS central bank websites. It works by subtracting nominal GDP growth from changes in central bank reserve growth. If you wanted a better measure, it could also include subtracting net issuance of government duration supply, plus new private credit impulse, minus private debt-to-service (interest and repayment) needs,  minus repricing and funding stress measures. These would result showing ‘real’ net liquidity and would probably run even lower than the current one, probably by several hundred percentage points.
 
During COVID you notice all these money creation measures roughly tripled from their earlier base level. Global broad money from 5% to 13%. M1 from 4% to 17%. Net liquidity from flat to 25-30%, since then it fell back to -5%, but last few years it’s been drifting higher again and is now at -1%. Net liquidity is the one that seems to have much more sensitivity to extreme changes. Broad money is the most stable and seems to be running between 5-7% continuously over the decades. COVID was a similar or even larger crisis event as 2008, per these indicators. 2012 was a smaller crisis. That was the first euro debt crisis?
 
What it does show, is whenever there’s a crisis, central banks often hop in after the crisis is already ongoing to bail out whatever is needed to keep the system afloat. And those bailouts lead to huge money creation which always ends up fueling some bubble, somewhere. Will need to figure out if these sort of things have some sort of predictive power to market movements. Maybe the absolute values/figures aren’t as important as the tangent/shape and where they are headed, which could predict things like inflation or market movement better. 

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 30 2026 9:55 utc | 195

Posted by: ChatNPC | Sep 30 2026 9:37 utc | 193
 
Rats given the job of protecting the cheese for everyone’s benefit – such levels of altruism!
 
I feel safe now, phew!

Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Sep 30 2026 10:07 utc | 196

such levels of altruism!
 
Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Sep 30 2026 10:07 utc | 196
 
—
 
Silicon Valley Effective Altruists.
 
Bill Gate’s daughter Phoebe studied Effective Altruism at Stanford.
 

Phoebe Gates took a secret Stanford class on how to ‘rule the world’—and reportedly recruited employees for her startup accused of wire fraud
 
Long before Phoebe Gates cofounded the AI personal shopping assistant Phia, she was a student at Stanford University working towards a bachelor’s degree in human biology. While her transcript reflects coursework in epidemiology and health policy analysis, Gates attended one secret winter-quarter class that reportedly helped her establish Phia.
 
The 10-week off-the-record course, titled “So You Think You Can Rule the World?” or simply referred to as “Rule” among Stanford students, required a referral from another student and wasn’t available through the college’s official course registration, The Stanford Daily reported in May.
 
The course teaches “how to essentially hack any kind of power structure or bureaucratic structure and get what they want in a system of people,” a former student, who preferred to remain anonymous, told the student newspaper.
 
https://fortune.com/2026/08/21/phoebe-gates-secret-stanford-class-how-to-rule-the-world-wire-fraud/

 
 

Posted by: too scents | Sep 30 2026 10:14 utc | 197

I was collecting some twatter posts randomly yesterday on the SUPERIntel rebranding, before seeing the new post by b late last night. So a perfect place for them maybe they already by others. 
Is this another attempt at Narrative change after the disastrous UNGA? Where the mentally unstable psychopaths of the Collective Waste turned into shit throwing monkeys in a cage! 
 
The false flag that was run by PR and media to hit the screens in the US news cycle as usual forgetting about the time difference that had US announcing the ‘emergency’ at Fairford hours ahead of anything happening! 
 
Now this canard – did they get permission from Emperor Xi to run with it as a means of having collective control over AI?
 
Did Xi nod imperceptibly finishing the dinner with the band of mangy IT currs gathered to beg?
 
Before he and his glorious singing empress, walked up the steps and with a cursory wave of their hands turned their backs on the motley crews of the Collective Wasters?
 
Happy to let the imperialist currs bark away, as the multipolar caravan hurries on! 
 
some snippets before opinion :
 
 

16h
Relax, guys…Palantir co-founder Joe Lonsdale wants us to be less judgmental about our tax dollars blowing up 150+ people, mostly children, at a girls’ school.

 

What an odd thing to say…
Unless it was your software that helped do it. 🤷‍♂️

 
& 
 

 
3h
** TRUMP: “ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE” SHOULD NOW BE CALLED “SUPERINTELLIGENCE”**
 
Donald Trump opened a luncheon with major technology CEOs by proposing that **artificial intelligence be officially renamed “superintelligence.”**
 
**Trump wants a new name for AI — and apparently, a new era with it.**
 
Sep 29, 2026 · 8:12 PM UTC

 

2h
** MUSK CORRECTS HIMSELF — TRUMP’S “SUPERINTELLIGENCE” MAKES ANOTHER APPEARANCE**
 
Elon Musk caught himself saying **“artificial intelligence”** before correcting it to Trump’s preferred term, **“superintelligence”** — prompting a quick “Thank you” from Trump.
 
**Even Musk is adapting to Trump’s new AI vocabulary. **
 
Sep 29, 2026 · 9:13 PM UTC

 
 
Ok – so it is certain they want to blame their war crimes and genocide against civilians and children in Iran and Gaza upon their ‘golom’ A/SI – to escape any censure and punishment – including prison and execution, when the international new human crimes court decides which of dynastic overlords and their minions are dragged from their always far from the wars palaces, to the neo Nurembergs set up in West Asia and Africa where they committed their unforgivable crimes agains humanity. 
 
It is inevitable as the Multipolar Law based order convenes a SUPER UN now that this one was reduced to farce by the hegemons bruisers and minions. 
 
As for the SI/AI word juggling it’s a sop to mad as a hatter crazy Caesar potus Humpty Drumpffty’s last year. 
 
Basically they are setting him up to say ‘SI’ will be further rebranded as Americas Intelligence, er … AI for short. 
 
So there !

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 30 2026 10:15 utc | 198

More about their C-unning ST-unt plans from a few days ago
 
 
The Wasters are in a funk, their attempt to grab endless rentierism from the worlds AI use, has failed to clear the fence in the ‘fixed’ race. 
 
 
So they want to shoot all the other horses and excuse themselves from all further fences so they can win the race and cup which they already had engraved with their names on it! The charlatans!! 
 
 

🤖‼️🚨 REGULATE AI – TO LOCK OUT COMPETITION FROM CHINA ?
 
Claude’s Dario demands safety regulations for AI, but let’s check what those regulations would do:
 
1) They would create a small circle of “chosen” companies that write rules for everyone globally to follow.
 
Anthropic, OpenAI (accepted) and xAI (accepted)
 
2) Regulations always claim to protect consumers, but they end up closing the market. Compliance is too complex and expensive for newcomers, hence new players don’t appear.
 
This is one of the reasons Europe cannot get decent tech going. Only big companies can afford to follow the rules, so the market stays locked.
 
3) The competition Dario wants to lock out is mainly from China. He frames it more broadly: “democratic countries” should set safety standards and ask “authoritarian governments” to follow them.
 
The only democratic country with leading AI is the US right now. So US safety standards which Dario and Sam came up with would then need to be applied to Chinese open-source models. And this comes just as those open source models started closing the gap and threatening their business models.
 
What would that mean? Surely some speech controls for the models of Chinese models, which Chinese companies cannot follow.
 
-> If Dario gets his wish, the US would shut out competition from the West through regulation and from the East by rejecting models as authoritarian.
 
The question remains whether this would hurt western startups that now use cheap Chinese open-source models and train on top of them. Current startup cost is basically $0, this would change. So startups could no longer just try out stuff, which could slow Western companies long-term and give China an advantage.
 
= We’ll see what happens. The thing to remember is that regulations lock the market for established players and slow progress.
 
🔗

Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 30 2026 10:30 utc | 199

AI is as dangerous as the year 2000 fraud. ;O)

Posted by: Squeeth | Sep 30 2026 10:52 utc | 200

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