Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 26, 2026
There Is No Justification -But Hype- For Current AI Investment

I have previously written some bits about the AI-bubble:

I lamented that the much hyped Large Language Models (LLMs), as proffered by OpenAI and Anthropic, are mostly unreliable search engines. There are only a few real use cases for these. That is why I argue that these do not justify the current AI investments.

But the AI companies (and those who promote them) want lots of money. As their is no real use for their very expensive models they always point to future cases. When asked about current use gains, they divert and point to science fiction.

A master of this tactic is Scam Altman, the head of OpenAI.

In a recent interview of him he was asked how he personally is using his company’s product. That is of course a softball question. It is like asking the CEO of Mercedes why he loves to drive his company’s cars. Any reasonable salesperson would catch the softball and laud his products.

Altman, however, veers off (@20:25):

Q: How are you using ChatGPT? How are you using it every day and what’s that look like?

Altman: Ahem- let me answer a more interesting question than that. How I would like to use it.

I think we are close to a world where you can have like a descendant of ChatGPT watch your computer screen all the time, watch every meeting you are in, like record every call, everything like that, have perfect context of your whole life, everything you see …

When I watched that blubber I had two questions:

  1. Who the hell would want such a thing?
  2. Why doesn’t Altman say how he is using his product?

A second softball interview with Altman, published three days ago, answers the second question.

Sam Altman is not using ChatGPT (@5:58) or Codecs, his company’s other product.

Altman: I have for 20 years been using computers the same way. I now have a magic thing called codecs. So do you. So does everybody.

That means I should completely be using my computer in a different way. I should not be clicking around uh you know pasting from one messaging app to another. I should not be scrolling mindlessly through my emails and trying to figure out which one is like least painful for me to open and respond when I don’t want to be dealing with it. I should not be like keeping a to-do list and doing sort of this like these wrote computer tasks in the same way that I have for so long.

And yet there’s like something in my mind that is encoded that like doing this kind of stuff is what it means to work and what it means to be productive.

What Altman is really saying here is that his company’s product is not useful for what he does every day. It could be useful, he say, if …, if … and if …. But it currently isn’t. At least not for him.

But still he is out there to hustle for more money to be thrown into ever bigger OpenAI models which will add nothing of value.

It is no wonder then that the rats are leaving his ship:

OpenAI’s Head of Data Centers Has Left the Company (archived) – WSJ

A key executive overseeing OpenAI’s data-center build-out, Chris Malone, left the company last week, according to people familiar with the matter, joining a wave of leadership departures ahead of a planned public offering.

His departure comes amid a broader exodus at the firm, which is working toward an IPO that is expected in 2027 and racing to catch up to rival Anthropic in sales to business customers. In recent weeks, Chief Revenue Officer Denise Dresser, Chief Operating Officer Brad Lightcap, and Fidji Simo, who served as second-in-command to Chief Executive Sam Altman, have all left.

OpenAI is on its death bed. Its demise will likely cause a larger crash. Then Microsoft will swallow its carcass.

Its main competitor, Anthropic, is just as lunatic (archived) and will also go down:

SpaceX’s record-breaking IPO tested the limits of an obscure financial metric. Anthropic’s could push it even further.

The maker of Claude is likely to tell investors its potential revenue opportunities are above $30 trillion, topping SpaceX’s $28.5 trillion estimate, according to people familiar with the matter.

Tech startups or other growing companies going public often estimate their “total addressable markets,” or TAMs, to show investors they have ample room to grow. Such figures estimate the amount of annual revenue a company could theoretically capture if it achieved 100% market-share using inputs ranging from industry data to bankers’ models.

To put its more than $30 trillion vision in context, the 191 technology companies in the S&P 1500 brought in $2.4 trillion in revenue last year

The evaluations thrown around by these companies, and the hundreds of billions being invested into data centers to keep them going, are absurd when compared to the potential revenue these companies might make.

Imagine a product which is so good that every household in North America and Europe is willing to spend some $20 per month to use it. Those are 400 million households for a total revenue of $48 billion per year. That is a laughable sum when compared to the ~$1.1 trillion contracted by OpenAI and Anthropic with Microsoft, Amazon and Oracle for current and future compute.

There is no AI product in sight (but hype) and no revenue, that can justify such investments.

BCA Research (via Ed Zitron) agrees:

AI companies may need to ultimately generate $10 trillion per year in revenue to justify their capex. Barring a massive increase in productivity growth, this will be very difficult to achieve.

The capital expenditure that is currently put into LLMs/AI has no relation to its potential future revenue. It is wasted money.

There has yet to be any ‘productive growth’ due to AI. Within companies AI projects notoriously fail. On a personal use level just ask Scam Altman, who hasn’t seen any personal productivity gain yet during his work day.

The scare mongering about AI leading to job losses is also nonsense. It is a marketing device to argue for more capital investment. In the real world AI job losses are a myth.

Large Language Models are reasonably good, though still defective, semantic search engines. With some functionality added on top of them they can be used for text, code, picture or video generation.  But as these models are inherently unreliable all of their outputs need human supervision.

There is only so much money people are willing to pay for what LLMs do. The costs of training new models exceeds their potential revenue by a wide margin. The underlying algorithms of current LLMs (transformer models) are compute intensive and make their use expensive.

There is nothing that justifies enormous investments in them.

Comments

In a nutshell it is just a Ponzi scheme.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 26 2026 17:55 utc | 1

I highly recommend watching the Tucker Carlson interview of Sam Altman. These tech oligarchs are soulless

Posted by: Chris N | Aug 26 2026 17:55 utc | 2

thanks b… as norwegian notes – a ponzi scheme…. in fact it is the most blatant and obvious ponzi scheme that seems to mark the top and end of the usa empire here… that is my take…
 
gary marcus has a good post up on substack some might want to read…
 
Excellent new Bill Gates essay on the urgency of having a coherent AI plan
The time to tame Silicon Valley has come
 
i wonder if bill gates is trying to atone for his daughters dilemma?? 

Posted by: james | Aug 26 2026 18:04 utc | 3

Follow Ed Zitron, and Gary Marcus among others.
 
One them reported a big customer left Claude to use a Chinese open weight based AI, cheaters less slop, and it is buying the capability rather leasing from the ever costly, delusional hyperscalers.
 
Cheaper math, less energy swilling chips, and more competition in open where customers are not tied to expensive “training”.
 
Of course, NVDA subsidizes the over costly data centers.
 
Zitron makes the case the big hyperscalers have fake business plans and act as they have permanent monopoly on AI….

Posted by: paddy | Aug 26 2026 18:06 utc | 4

mind you the intel agencies seem to be in love with AI, so there is that to contend with…

Posted by: james | Aug 26 2026 18:06 utc | 5

FWIW I find Gab.ai to be a force multiplier for what I do, and it has  better LLMs (for my purposes) and no guardrails, except for the 3rd party agents it uses, i.e. image gen. Plus it’s baseline worldview is closer to reality than most, if not all, of the others.

Posted by: xLemming | Aug 26 2026 18:12 utc | 6

It is wasted money.

Destruction of assets and surplus capital precedes renewal of profitability. A renewal of profitability which will require sacrifice from the labor which adds value to goods and services which generate the revenues. The AI bubble is going to destroy a lot surpluses but produce the most important – surplus labor. 

Posted by: Keme | Aug 26 2026 18:12 utc | 7

@5
 
Visual recognition is a use for the excessive wattage GPU chips.  It may be the only use, until cheaper chips and processing comes along.
 
Note computers have been recognizing objects for decades, it is merely getting faster.  Good enough image recognizing has been here for 20 years and loaded on smart bombs w/o tether to gigawatts data centers.

Posted by: paddy | Aug 26 2026 18:13 utc | 8

I agree there may be a big correction (not a crash) due to increasing bond yields plus other macroeconomic factors but I disagree with your argument about AI models being useless. 
AI has been a genuine game changer for me. It has made such a huge difference to my life that I would struggle without it. Remember the early days of the internet era? The biggest difference is that the biggest AI firms are profitable. I can’t imagine what the next five years of AI are going to change for all of us. 

Posted by: Justin | Aug 26 2026 18:17 utc | 9

Yahoo email without any user input added an AI feature to every account.   This can’t-live-without enhancement automatically summarizes the email for you.  It is incredible…..it gets almost everything wrong, inside out, backward.  Who is selling and who is buying…ass backwards.   What is being sold/bought….damn near random.  How the buy/seller is to pay for the wrong/right item is incomprehensible.  Fortunately, the AI email enhancement feature can be disabled with some stressful mental effort and most of a six pack.  This AI stuff is best thought of as Digital Devolution…….

Posted by: 24ouncer | Aug 26 2026 18:21 utc | 10

What’s great about this grift is that it goes all the way up the chain. When you have POTUS declaring AI a matter of national security, and Lutnick and Bessent riding shotgun, there is truly no reverse gear. Forget about guardrails.

Posted by: Johnathan Birks | Aug 26 2026 18:22 utc | 11

Posted by: Chris N | Aug 26 2026 17:55 utc | 2
 
San Altman is scary evil. Its shocking that people subscribe to his AI platform.  

Posted by: Exile | Aug 26 2026 18:30 utc | 12

“The scare mongering about AI leading to job losses is also nonsense. It is a marketing device to argue for more capital investment.”
While I agree with the above quote and the thrust of b’s article that the AI hype is overblown, I think AI is beginning to cause some job restructuring.  The other day I came across the below article, which highlights some effects of AI on employment in China.  I would agree the below linked article is part of the dominant scare mongering meme, but there have been and will be some real effects of AI on employment:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/workers-in-china-worry-over-being-replaced-as-they-adapt-to-the-growing-impact-of-ai-on-jobs
 

Posted by: mjh | Aug 26 2026 18:34 utc | 13

If the PayPal Tech Bros are so smart why aren’t they leading the 2nd World Humanoid Robot Games?
 
They are afraid to attend because of cowardice and shame.
 
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 18:34 utc | 14

Microsoft pushing AI (copilot) into every possible and impossible corner of Windows has contributed greatly to an unprecedented rise in Linux desktop installations, it is now  ~10% in the US. So we must agree it does have its use.

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 26 2026 18:36 utc | 15

Posted by: 24ouncer | Aug 26 2026 18:21 utc | 10
We Are Devo

Posted by: lex talionis | Aug 26 2026 18:41 utc | 16

I can’t imagine what the next five years of AI are going to change for all of us. 
Posted by: Justin | Aug 26 2026 18:17 utc | 9
 
…yeah, funny that…
 
i can’t imagine that you are for real, or that anyone serious believes any of this jive.
 
meanwhile: money, land, water, electricity, silicon all being grabbed and blackholed.
 
curious!

Posted by: bongholder | Aug 26 2026 18:42 utc | 17

@ Norwegian | Aug 26 2026 18:36 utc | 15
 
lol… good point!

Posted by: james | Aug 26 2026 18:43 utc | 18

AI and bitcoin are wonderful things, but only for the following reason — they are soaking up trillions of clownbux, acting like a magic liquidity destroyer.  

Posted by: Adriatic Hillbilly | Aug 26 2026 18:48 utc | 19

@9
 
Alphabet recent quarter was very profitable, and it had a negative $7 billion free cash balance.
 
Firms run on a lot most expenses than EBITDA 

Posted by: paddyCOMPC | Aug 26 2026 18:49 utc | 20

Posted by: mjh | Aug 26 2026 18:34 utc | 13
 
you do realize that PBS News Hour is full on regimist disinformation, don‘t you ?

Posted by: Exile | Aug 26 2026 18:57 utc | 21

Small correction – $20/month x 400 million households is $96 billion per year. The point still holds though. Even if each household was willing to pay$50/month it would still only total $240 billion per year. Even with the commercial use that the AI hucksters tell us is inevitable it would take a miracle to get to $1 trillion. Especially with the presence of cheaper alternative AI models available.

Posted by: Lone Plateau | Aug 26 2026 18:57 utc | 22

AI is really good at the appearance of productivity, which kind of covers what you need in the modern economy. 

Posted by: CallSaul | Aug 26 2026 18:58 utc | 23

IMO, the Eurasian AI business model will prevail, and the Western one will die. Yes, a blanket statement but backed by a multitude of facts provided by many examining the two systems and their overall ecosystems. One podcast providing a few of those facts is between Carl Zha and Warwick Powell. And I again suggest “(Almost) everyone hates data centers. And the economics are bad. But they also can’t get equipment to build them.” 
 
A valueless ponzi scheme is the Western AI business plan.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2026 19:05 utc | 24

I also wanted to hype one of Warwick Powell’s latest essays, “A Sunlit Path to Hydrogen Sovereignty?” China’s development of its “Green Hydrogen Economy” is very important and one reason why the Hormuz closure isn’t as critical for China’s economy.  
 

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2026 19:10 utc | 25

The biggest difference is that the biggest AI firms are profitable.

Hahaha. No. They are certainly not. I tire of this kind of mindless propaganda. Only Anthropic showed a profit, a heavily caveated one of 26 million on 11 billion or so in revenue. Financial data showing “profitability” has been intentionally leaked during funding and pre-IPO windows to change the narrative from “AI is a cash incinerator” to “AI is a viable business”.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 26 2026 19:22 utc | 26

The market is somewhat larger than the 400 million x $20 x 12 months as companies are paying far more than that to give access to their employees. And there is Europe and Asia to factor in for the TAM.
.
Has anyone followed the story of Block after they got rid of about 1/2 of their employees?  We likely need a few more quarters to see how that unfolds.  But they are still in business.

Posted by: ed4 | Aug 26 2026 19:23 utc | 27

This AI hype is not a first. Note what Casey Muratori says about an 1968 IBM ad for the PL/I programming language
 
Casey Muratori – The Root of The Root of All Evil – BSC 2026
 
https://youtu.be/hpj6r6CjJf8?t=1333
 

Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 26 2026 19:25 utc | 28

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 26 2026 19:22 utc | 26  “Hahaha. No. They are certainly not”
.
Google?  Meta? or they don’t count as one of the biggest AI firms as AI is only part of what they do?

Posted by: ed4 | Aug 26 2026 19:25 utc | 29

IBM ad for the PL/I programming language
 
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 26 2026 19:25 utc | 28
 

 
Back in the day I had an IBM 2741 with an APL typeball.
 
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 19:36 utc | 30

Google? Meta? or they don’t count as one of the biggest AI firms as AI is only part of what they do?
 
Posted by: ed4 | Aug 26 2026 19:25 utc | 29

The preexisting companies with massive revenue streams from advertising and SaaS whose revenues been heavily impacted by their AI hyperscaling efforts? They were profitable despite AI not because of it.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 26 2026 19:36 utc | 31

Git hub all Twitter instances are down. No nitter , x-cancel etc  
 
I’m almost bereft! 
 
 
what’s plan c, d, e…?
 
 
am never going to register with fat slob Twat Elon the king clown of Mars!
 
I’ll head to back up at telegram 
 

Posted by: DunGroanin | Aug 26 2026 19:38 utc | 32

2. Why doesn’t Altman say how he is using his product?

 
Maybe he uses his models for sexual roleplay? Or maybe they make his business decisions for him? I mean, it is a boilerplate question, as was his evasive answer to some extent, but any straight answer is complicated, being either underwhelming or subject to ridicule. Maybe he was evasive because he doesn’t approve of the term “use” for his models, preferring to see it as companionship or a meeting of minds. His actual answer, of a future where ChatGPT is ever-present in every process and facet of life, aware of the state of your underwear and your deepest fears — the two not necessarily related — doesn’t exactly sound like he relates to his product as a mere search-engine. 

Posted by: Skiffer | Aug 26 2026 19:40 utc | 33

Calling google and meta ‘AI firms’ is sophistry..branding. deliberately moving the goalposts to make an argument that simply.cannot be.made. will LLms be useful, yes. Will they use the Western pay as you go token conceptualization?
 
Hell no. They will be a commodity, the Eastern model, another open source tool. Noone can afford to pay per transaction when you cannot reliably reproduce results or accuracy even with the exact same query parameters.
 
B is right – the current investment frenzy is based on less than smoke and mirrors. Its a late stage capitalist bull market before it all comes tumbling down. What drives markets?
 
Belief.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 26 2026 19:41 utc | 34

Note computers have been recognizing objects for decades, it is merely getting faster.  Good enough image recognizing has been here for 20 years and loaded on smart bombs w/o tether to gigawatts data centers.
 
Posted by: paddy | Aug 26 2026 18:13 utc | 8

 
Image recognition is not object recognition. 

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 26 2026 19:43 utc | 35

@9 Justin

AI will be self correcting by definition of macroeconomic bond yield factors, useless AI models argue about disagreement. Genuine AI has gamed the changers, different struggles about huge life. 56k remembers the internet early, firmly biggest different AI profits.

I can’t imagine.

AI is going to change all.

Beep.

Posted by: Ornot | Aug 26 2026 19:43 utc | 36

Image recognition is not object recognition. 
 
Posted by: persiflo | Aug 26 2026 19:43 utc | 35
 

 
Maybe duality is unsolvable?
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 19:49 utc | 37

This story of AI (LLMs and search consolidation) is the public/business facing version.
 
The real purpose is more nefarious, the tracking of human behavior with the goal of manipulating and controlling it. As with the previous Social Media boom, people who use AI systems will be far too slow to realize that they are the product.
 
The Internet already knows a big part of inherent bias of everyone who posts on this site. Combine that with all the other places. How long before your consolidated “Social Credit Score” determines what you can and cannot do?

Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Aug 26 2026 19:55 utc | 38

Of course, no one knows for sure. b is great, I have the best opinion of him, but his guessing record is poor, the world is too chaotic for orderly brains.
 
Divide 10 trillion necessary revenues per year by the one billion high income people in rich countries, That is 10k per person per year. A lot, but not impossible, if AI can power a cheap robot that does all chores in every home, including cooking, and just half of customer service jobs (supervisors remain, assisted by AI for sure). You are now doing the work of nurses, day care staff, waiters, cooks, mdchanics, plumbers…
 
It is certainly not impossible. That is not the same as saying AI will make money for anyone.

Posted by: Biochar | Aug 26 2026 20:02 utc | 39

if AI can power a cheap robot that does all chores
 
Posted by: Biochar | Aug 26 2026 20:02 utc | 39
 

 
Value comes from labour, not automation.
 
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 20:04 utc | 40

Value comes from labour, not automation.  Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 20:04 utc |
Thank you too scents, that is intriguing. But it sounds a bit too ideological for me. You can do a lot of labour and get very little value (cleaning jobs, soldiers in reserve battalions, plenty of paper shifting civil servants…) , and the opposite is also true (heart surgery).

Posted by: Biochar | Aug 26 2026 20:18 utc | 41

Image recognition is not object recognition.  — Maybe duality is unsolvable?

 
For sure not in parameter space. The human mind is “more than all infinity” (Fichte).
 

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 26 2026 20:20 utc | 42

“Who the hell would want such a thing?”
Zio Imperialism, of course.  The panopticon of, by, for the billionaire oligarchy has been a long held dream of the bourgeois since the days of Jeremy Bentham.  
And that is what justifies the 30T expense, in their addled minds.  
I appreciate your coverage of this ridiculously over hyped phenomenon.  That said, in my experience the LLMs can be very useful and efficient for specific tasks. 
I see AI like I do firearms: depends who’s holding the gun.  In the hands of the Zios, AI will certainly be used in the most socially destructive manner possible.  China on the other hand may show the real social potential of this new technology at a fraction of the social cost.  
We know what the Zios will do with it, but I say let’s look harder at what China is up to, to the extent possible.  That’s the future of the tech.  

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 26 2026 20:23 utc | 43

Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Aug 26 2026 19:55 utc | 38

Of course I agree that the real purpose here is surveillance and real time reality manipulation eg. Video editing so that one cannot believe ones own eyes. A panopticon is only useful if you can zoom in and discern what the mice are doing and what they have been doing. If its summarized in a chippy, Judy Dench voice alls the better.
 
Like so many other big ideas, some initial success will lead to larger failures. An elite so obsessed with lying and fabrication will attack the very idea of objective truth itself rather than reconcile itself to the reality that truth always exists, even if hidden. Its more folly on folly on folly..its not in fact turtles but greedy assholes all the way down.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Aug 26 2026 20:25 utc | 44

Value comes from labour, not automation. Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 20:04 utc |
Thank you too scents, that is intriguing. But it sounds a bit too ideological for me. You can do a lot of labour and get very little value (cleaning jobs, soldiers in reserve battalions, plenty of paper shifting civil servants…) , and the opposite is also true (heart surgery).
 
Posted by: Biochar | Aug 26 2026 20:18 utc | 41
Two scents is right.  Perhaps if I add this concept: “socially necessary labor time”, you’d understand better.  It’s in Capital (Marx).  Read up!  

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 26 2026 20:25 utc | 45

China looks like they’re going to build themselves another terracotta army.

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 26 2026 20:26 utc | 46

it sounds a bit too ideological for me.
 
Posted by: Biochar | Aug 26 2026 20:18 utc | 41
 

 
Automation is fixed Capital that amplifies labour’s value.
 
All value beyond primitive accumulation is produced by labour.
 
Price is not Value.  It is Exchange Value. 
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 20:28 utc | 47

Posted by: xLemming | Aug 26 2026 18:12 utc | 6
 
Were you by any chance paid by Gab.ai for this message?

Posted by: Lemming | Aug 26 2026 20:31 utc | 48

@ too scents | Aug 26 2026 20:04 utc | 40
who said:
 

Value comes from labour, not automation.  

Too scents, you make some great contributions here at MoA, but I don’t think this is one of them. It looks like your dogma is interfering with your common sense. (scents?)
 
Automation is doing “labor” without the human. All automation started with a human or an animal doing the work (the labor) and then the machine (physical or abstract like software or AI) supplanted the human. 
 
Here’s a specific case to illustrate. Suppose that the inputs used by and the outputs produced by the human, or the machine that supplanted the human are the same. A loaf of bread produced by a machine is every bit as valuable, nutritious, etc. as one made by a human. 
 
Value doesn’t necessarily come from labor. Value comes from the intrinsic qualities of the object produced, whether it was produced with or without labor.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 26 2026 20:34 utc | 49

Automation is doing “labor” without the human.
 
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 26 2026 20:34 utc | 49
 

 
Automation is an amplifier and not a producer.  It amplifies encapsulated Surplus Value.
 
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 20:36 utc | 50

1. why it is always a jew?
2. why is anyone surprised they are lying and scamming so they can get more money? for them it is always getting the money, there is no other motive.

Posted by: Abe | Aug 26 2026 20:37 utc | 51

Try to keep my take on ai cogent and to the point:
 
So far, I have found it to be a slight extension of utility from existing interweb search engines, in that you can ask a question and it parses myriad (acceptable or what it deems acceptable). 
 
The answers it spits out need to be checked at this point and cross-referenced with your own parsing of the sources and a repeated query on the subject by means of asking the same question although in a slightly different way. 
 
E.g., I have a square body Chevy that I like to keep up on from the 80s. Model variations within the same year can mean a completely different part or method of repair. Deeper dives into forum interactions will yield a better solution, even though the LLMs probably parsed the same source itself. 
 
So for variations within vehicles, make, manufacturer, year, I find these LLMs wanting and I still need to consult YouTube or a specific forum question. 
 
Perhaps these LLMs would be more useful if all widgets were made in the same shop or by the same mind. We do not live in such a world and hopefully will never.
 
I see what people call ai, then, as just a minor extension of the existing search engines, if we are basing ai’s ability on providing reliable answers. It helps to point the way, but you MUST use it as merely one tool amongst many to get yourself across the finish line. 

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 26 2026 20:38 utc | 52

Value comes from the intrinsic qualities of the object produced
 
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 26 2026 20:34 utc | 49
 

 
Yes.  Automation on its own doesn’t create demand.  
 
Ultimately demand is a social construct.
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 20:40 utc | 53

First paragraph should read:
 
“Parses myriad.. sources.”
 
And the thought that follows is: if these LLMs still require you to put in the effort to educate yourself on the subject without blindly trusting the answers they provide, then the idea that AI will replace seems improbable at best.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 26 2026 20:43 utc | 54

It’s really about data collection. What AI is used is/will be for parsing through for CONTROL of the masses.

Posted by: Seer | Aug 26 2026 20:55 utc | 55

Why does Sam Altman have gas masks from the Israeli Defence Force?
 
Are they any good?
 
Made in china?

Posted by: Trond | Aug 26 2026 21:05 utc | 56

It’s really about data collection. What AI is used is/will be for parsing through for CONTROL of the masses.
 
Posted by: Seer | Aug 26 2026 20:55 utc | 55
In the Zio Imperialist West, yes. 

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 26 2026 21:06 utc | 57

Exile@21: ‘You do realize PBS is a full on regimist disinformation, don’t you?
Yes, but you would be wrong to conclude that every word therein is a lie.  Their use of facts may be selective, their conclusions erroneous or exaggerated, but I’m still looking for a source of pure unbiased factual reporting—could it be that facts and conclusions from them are always subject to individual and class biases?  A biased interpretation of a fact’s meaning does not mean the “fact” was an outright lie.  It is a fact that some people are losing jobs from AI—some basic programmers, for example.  But as I said, I agree with b’s interpretation that the size of the potential AI disruption to jobs is overblown.  My point was to say some disruption to employment is occurring—it’s just not the crisis implied by MSM reportage which so far lack any quantitative or even qualitative factuality…

Posted by: mjh | Aug 26 2026 21:07 utc | 58

Value comes from the intrinsic qualities of the object produced
 
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 26 2026 20:34 utc | 49
Yes, if you consider the socially necessary labor time required to produce the “object” (commodity?) intrinsic to the object.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 26 2026 21:08 utc | 59

I’m impressed with two scents today.  Good contributions.  

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 26 2026 21:09 utc | 60

@ Ahenobarbus | Aug 26 2026 21:08 utc | 59
 
You have to be careful with Tom Pfotzer. 
 
He is teachable if he can be lead in a direction that satisfies his own interests.
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 21:12 utc | 61

Value comes from labour, not automation. Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 20:04 utc |
 
Hm!! A little old fashioned but i plan to be more outrageously old fashioned.
 
Value (or real wealth) is based on:

  1. What we grow (minus to cost of growing it) – machinery, seeds, fertilizers, travel to markets.  Things grown for manufacturing products should not be counted directly. This is about food. Not directly counting labour either – more complex. Externality costs should also be included, although difficult to measure – environmental damage and social damage
  2. What we make or build. (again minus the costs of making it) – raw materials eg metal ores, machinery, travel etc
  3.  What we can sell to someone else (surplus to our own requirements). In this case you can include labour and services. It can also include technology or intellectual property

Now I can see no other sources of real wealth. Banking, finance etc are simply costs of production. 
 
What can vary is the way we choose to distribute the wealth we have accrued. This is where labour comes in. We choose currently to distribute wealth via wages and profits, with profits taking the dominant share.  
 
Once we have distributed our wealth we can choose how we spend it – food, clothing, shelter, consumer goods, health care etc
 
We choose (force) everyone to contribute a share of their incomes to a common pool for shared services – military, police, education, health care etc but it was not always like this. Even 250 years ago wealthy people in the UK hired coachmen with guns who were tasked with protection from robbers and others. education and health care were private matters. 
 
However it all comes back to fundamentals – We are only as wealthy as what we can grow or make or sell.

Posted by: watcher | Aug 26 2026 21:15 utc | 62

There’s going to be alot of large empty buildings to rent. Or tear down.

Posted by: Tux | Aug 26 2026 21:17 utc | 63

alot of large empty buildings 
 
Posted by: Tux | Aug 26 2026 21:17 utc | 63
 

 
So many ballrooms.
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 21:20 utc | 64

It’s in Capital (Marx).  Read up!
 
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 26 2026 20:25 utc | 45
 
I’m impressed with two scents today.  Good contributions.
 
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 26 2026 21:09 utc | 60

 
Das Kapital was a great assessment of mid-19th century Capitalism and the early industrial revolution. It is useful only in that it documents an important stage of social and economic development.  The world has moved on and the time wasted reading it would be better spent observing the here and now.

Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Aug 26 2026 21:23 utc | 65

time wasted reading it would be better spent observing the here and now.
 

 
How would you know what you were observing without a foundational benchmark?
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 21:25 utc | 66

Automation, whether it be robotics or AI/LLM, is a blind alley. There is no “surplus value” to be extracted, the costs are what they are; skimp on costs and the production line breaks down, or the AI/LLM subscription expires.
 
Skimping on the costs of a human workforce on the production line is where “surplus value” arises, likely resulting in an impoverished, possibly sullen and bitter workforce, but there is still a workforce.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 26 2026 21:26 utc | 67

How would you know what you were observing without a foundational benchmark?
 
Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 21:25 utc | 66

 
LOL… I read (well skimmed) it in the 1970s.  Plus I live with a former USSR foreign service staffer who was required to memorize it. She (reluctantly) also recognizes that the world has moved on.

Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Aug 26 2026 21:36 utc | 68

Our host: “There is nothing that justifies enormous investments in them.”
 
 
Oh, but there is! These LLMs and their data centers are the modern equivalent of pyramids. In the absence of any better ideas from capitalism’s titans of industry/finance, it gives them something to keep economic gears turning while they hope some better idea occurs to them tomorrow. Western economies would have already crashed and burned by now without the AI bubble driving things and giving the illusion of economic growth for a little bit longer. 
 
 
As for me, I am hoping the bubble holds off on popping until after Elon builds his orbital data centers. While the data centers themselves are meaningless to me, the effort to build them will be accompanied by the development of substantial orbital and off-planet infrastructure that will enable other industrial development possibilities outside the planet’s biosphere. I have some favorite ideas on what some of those possibilities should be, and chatbots and space tourism don’t make the list.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2026 21:38 utc | 69

There is no “surplus value” to be extracted
 
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 26 2026 21:26 utc | 67
 

 
Automation is a fixed cost.  Fixed costs are valueless and should not be a difficult concept to understand.
 
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 21:39 utc | 70

Tux @ 63, Too Scents @ 64:
 
Never mind, DJT can lease out the empty spaces to a new govt agency that works for him or Jared Kushner personally. Or he can find or create a shell company to take over the construction costs and have that company declared bankrupt.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Aug 26 2026 21:40 utc | 71

Das Kapital was a great assessment of mid-19th century Capitalism and the early industrial revolution.
Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Aug 26 2026 21:23 utc | 65
 
So you’ve read it?

Posted by: UWDude | Aug 26 2026 21:41 utc | 72

Look at our fancy new automated production line, fully controlled by AI, it can produce 20,000 widgets per hour. Data analysed by AI from our website online ordering system forecasts demand for 40,000 widgets per hour. 
 
Eighteen months later…
 
Hey, we’re only selling 500 widgets per hour; we were supposing to be depreciating the investment costs over 10 years. 
 
“Ooops!” Said someone somewhere (possibly the accountants)…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 26 2026 21:41 utc | 73

Fixed costs are valueless
 

 
Maybe it would have been more helpful if I had said “Fixed costs are full priced”?
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 21:42 utc | 74

damn sticky key.  “Fixed costs are fully priced”!
 

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 21:44 utc | 75

@69
 
Orbiting clusters of GPU are Musk’s mad enterprise to move Earth higher on the Kardashev scale.
 
More energy high civilization, LLM is the excuse to gain 100 GW on orbit

Posted by: paddyCOMPC | Aug 26 2026 21:44 utc | 76

@74
 
Hyperscalers do not care about depreciation , interest or administrative costs.
 
Why they all have free cash problems 

Posted by: paddyCOMPC | Aug 26 2026 21:46 utc | 77

Too Scents @ 70:
 
The initial hardware investment may be a fixed cost but software upgrades, the technical support and the hardware maintenance required through constant use and the occasional dumb things employees will do – like taking the laptop to the beach to work on (that does happen here in Sydney) – are variable costs.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Aug 26 2026 21:47 utc | 78

The most immediate effect of AI (other than the financial shenanigans) is the drop in hiring of entry-level workers in some fields. This is confirmed by my experience using AI and talking with folks who do hiring of software people, and I think it’s justified based on profit motive. The workers not hired belong to the commons, so they can be ignored, at least for a while. https://arstechnica.com/ai/2026/08/ai-is-hitting-entry-level-jobs-hardest-stanford-study-finds/
Asking AI about the historical consequences of long-term youth unemployment yields a fair bit of interesting day. This passage stuck out to me: 
“High youth unemployment combined with corruption, inequality, weak institutions and a sense that advancement depends on connections rather than merit is considerably more dangerous”.
This comment was related to the so-called Arab Spring, but perhaps a kind of spring might come to other countries and regions? 

Posted by: BillB | Aug 26 2026 21:51 utc | 79

Sorry to intrude: China’s Challenge to the Dollarized International Financial System

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 26 2026 21:52 utc | 80

Tom Pfotzer @49: “Value comes from the intrinsic qualities of the object produced”
 
I happen to know that there is a 10,000 carat flawless diamond some distance below my house. I’ll sell it to you for pennies on the dollar of its intrinsic value.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2026 21:53 utc | 81

https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-ai-haters-manifesto/
 
Can’t beleive nobody mentioned this. 

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 26 2026 21:56 utc | 82

Too Scents @ 70: The initial hardware investment may be a fixed cost but software upgrades, the technical support and the hardware maintenance required through constant use and the occasional dumb things employees will do – like taking the laptop to the beach to work on (that does happen here in Sydney) – are variable costs.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Aug 26 2026 21:47 utc | 78
 
More and more f i x e d costs do not create v a l u e, because

Posted by: Haus Habakuk | Aug 26 2026 21:56 utc | 83

Fixed costs are fully priced

Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 21:44 utc | 75
 
Indeed, fixed costs are, well, fixed; trying to dodge or skimp these costs in a fruitless search for “surplus value” that doesn’t involve the exploitation of human worker bees will not work, despite whatever accounting obfuscations get applied.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 26 2026 21:56 utc | 84

@Posted by: too scents | Aug 26 2026 21:12 utc | 61 Who said:

You have to be careful with Tom Pfotzer.  He is teachable if he can be lead in a direction that satisfies his own interests.

 
Indeed you do have to be careful with Tom Pfotzer.
 
Why? Because I have no problem goring your sacred cows, Too Scents.
 
You’ve got a head full of dogma, and (apparently) not that much actual common sense. I doubt you could invent a product, or run a company profitably (e.g. produce and distribute on a sustainable basis). 
 
@Ahenobarbus | Aug 26 2026 21:08 utc | 59
 
Tom said: Value comes from the intrinsic qualities of the object produced
 
Ahenobarbus replied: Yes, if you consider the socially necessary labor time required to produce the “object” (commodity?) intrinsic to the object.
 
Tom replies: Ahenobarbus, I’m asserting that an object can have value – to a human being – even if it required _no_ labor to create. 
 
I acknowledge that:
 
a. Labor is required to build the apparatus that produces a product (e.g. the  “automation” or the “machinery” … often expressed as “capital”) …  even if that production process requires no labor post-installation. Labor _does_ come before automation. But labor is not necessarily an input to a production process which produces something of value
 
b. It is _much_ more socially desirable to retain labor in the production equation. Too much automation is not a good thing; this is the problem with AI. It seems like it could reduce, devalue, compromise or otherwise remove some of the key redoubts of humanity, e.g. the dignity of work and the power that comes in a paycheck, and of course the joy of creation, 
 
Now back to Too Scents…
 
Too scents, you are trying to name-call and character-demote someone that can effectively refute your dogma. That’s a small-time thing to do, and it’s indicative of your actual powers.
 
Nobody is actually using the pure-form of your Communist teachings, Too Scents.  There are probably hundreds of thousands of people in the world that have read all the great Communist teachings you’re so much enamored of. And – here it is – they’re not using those teachings in the form or even spirit they were written. 
 
As I pointed out the other day, and I’ll note for the record that _you have not refuted the statement_ … there is no country on this Planet is currently using pure-form Communism, or Socialism, or Capitalism. When I say “none”, I mean none that have GDP over a $1 billion, or are doing international trade on any scale. All modern economies are hybrids; the emphasis and the strategy changes from one country to the next, but they are all hybrids. 
 
So get your head out of your textbook, and dispense with the holier-than-thou BS. You wouldn’t survive in the real world of production and marketing for 10 minutes (all 3 “isms” have to do production and marketing)  with those nutty ideas of yours. 

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 26 2026 21:58 utc | 85

Capital provided a clean explanation of where economic value comes from and that remains a fundamental axiom of human society. It is a natural law like the core conservation laws of physics, only applied to human society. This axiom is part of why the AI boom is doomed to bust. 

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2026 22:04 utc | 86

@William Gruff:
 
I assume you’re saying that the diamond is worthless without the labor necessary to retrieve it. How does your example refute the principle that an object can have intrinsic  value even if no labor was utilized to produce it?
 
If the diamond is worth $10 million above ground, and it costs $1 million to retrieve it, then that diamond is worth $9mllion where it is, assuming your treasure map is accurate and the diamond has the qualities that would make it worth $10 million above-ground.
 
I don’t see – at all – how your example refutes the might-have-intrinsic-value-even-if-no-labor-used-to-produce principle.
 
 

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 26 2026 22:04 utc | 87

Ahenobarbus replied: Yes, if you consider the socially necessary labor time required to produce the “object” (commodity?) intrinsic to the object. Tom replies: Ahenobarbus, I’m asserting that an object can have value – to a human being – even if it required _no_ labor to create. 
 
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 26 2026 21:58 utc | 85
 
> How is “value” defined in this case? 
 
> If “value” is something that a (single individual) human being describes or defines for himself, how does the concept of “value” affect the greater group or civilization he is a part of and is this part and parcel to any given economic system? 

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 26 2026 22:08 utc | 88

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 26 2026 22:04 utc | 87
 
How can a diamond or anything other than sunlight, water, safety, food  and shelter (or the ability to obtain those) have “intrinsic value”? 

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 26 2026 22:09 utc | 89

With all the respect to the owner of the bar and the regular posters and their readers.
LLMs are simply great.
They are a tool for creation, e.g., of free software, which otherwise capable people would not write due to lack of interest or financial stimulus. But they are also a great research tool, an accelerator of ideas and cheap co-worker of the level of a master student, in some cases probably beyond.
One more time the buddies from China are going to excel, the Chinese models  offer similar quality at fractional cost.
The price for all this in term of money is highly speculative, but this is part of the capitalism. You call it by the name of the great master Ponzi, likely, for some it is certainly another kind of tool.
The only real danger i see is, that LLMs could easily outperform an ordinary man, and people should be still forced to develop skills and critical thinking outside the LLM bubble. Although critical thinking is one of the last things the ruling class would like to have among its slaves.
 

Posted by: Red, St. John | Aug 26 2026 22:12 utc | 90

The initial hardware investment may be a fixed cost but software upgrades, the technical support and the hardware maintenance required through constant use and the occasional dumb things employees will do – like taking the laptop to the beach to work on (that does happen here in Sydney) – are variable costs.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Aug 26 2026 21:47 utc | 78
 
I think we’re possibly getting cross-purposes over the definition of fixed costs.
 
What you’re describing reads to me as wear and tear, which would fall under the heading of depreciation, in turn making it a fixed cost. Sure, the actual value in the local currency at the time will be variable, but for the balance sheet/P & L accounts it would be absorbed by the overall depreciation charge, which is a fixed cost.
 
Software upgrades are perhaps more tricky, given the hassle they can cause, but unless there is a serious disaster (in which case somebody could well get sued), they won’t cause much variation in the overall fixed cost element of IT hardware/software provision. A cost that does not yield any “surplus value”.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 26 2026 22:13 utc | 91

Interesting article and subject. I think AI Will lead to significant job losses. Big Brother loves it, is already using it extensively and will figure out more ways to surveil and control people.

Posted by: GMST | Aug 26 2026 22:13 utc | 92

Maybe “value” can be set by how much fiat currency one has at one’s disposal?
 
No wonder MMT-ers like currency printing, they’re the ones in a position to benefit..

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 26 2026 22:17 utc | 93

Posted by: Red, St. John | Aug 26 2026 22:12 utc | 90
 
https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-ai-haters-manifesto/
 
That’s kind of the point with respect to China vs. the US’s rollout of “AI” LLMs. They’re fine for basic supervised coding. But they are terrible for society in how they are being rolled out and touted in the US. The Chinese are developing and using them differently.
 
Further, the massive costs to operate the US models and the huge over-leveraged circle jerk business model (and how these companies’ shares have been forced on so many unsuspecting investors) threaten to destroy the economy. 
 
 

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 26 2026 22:17 utc | 94

Posted by: AL | Aug 26 2026 22:13 utc | 92
 
What the hell are you talking about other than pumping your own Substack?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 26 2026 22:19 utc | 95

[Columbo voice on]
 
Just one more thing, ma’am, before I go; all these data-centres supporting LLMs and AI instances, I’m wondering, where does all the heat go? Is that just one of those ‘externalities’, that help towards extracting “surplus value”?
 
[Columbo voice off]

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 26 2026 22:25 utc | 96

“Automation is something new and unique in human history!”
 
Jacquard loom: “What am I to you? A sack of guava?”
 
Automation is a tool like a hammer, nothing more. It is simply the crystallization of human labor like any other form of capital. It cannot produce value on its own any more than a hammer can produce value on its own. Value is a social relation between humans that takes the objective form of a relationship between manufactured things; nevertheless, it remains a characteristic of human relationships and interactions: a social construct of the most fundamental sort. Value cannot exist independent of a human producer and a human consumer, at least until we come across sentient aliens.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2026 22:25 utc | 97

It seems to me that until the “singularity” when AI truly becomes AI and thinks for itself in devising future improved versions of itself, the argument about value is still the classic one and all value added by the machine (AI) is the result of the human labor that went into its creation, training, and maintenance. 
After the singularity, though, if such a thing can be a result of current tech (doubt it), then the AI itself becomes the generator of value, esp if it’s self maintaining and self sufficient. A tall order currently. 

Posted by: Caliman | Aug 26 2026 22:28 utc | 98

off topic w apologies. speaking of ponzis, imagine what will happen in 404 if zelenskyyiii goons start grabbing young women off the streets, sisters, cousins, maybe mothers, 
 
i hope kiev does makes this move.
 
 

Posted by: bugboy | Aug 26 2026 22:33 utc | 99

at least until we come across sentient aliens.

Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 26 2026 22:25 utc | 98
 
There aren’t any sentient aliens left. Just like humans, they invented fiat currency and discovered nuclear fission. After those two developments, they were never heard from again.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 26 2026 22:34 utc | 100

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