Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 7, 2026
Why A U.S. Wealth Tax Is Needed

I find this more than disturbing:

  • The average (mean) of wealth per adult in the U.S. (2025) is US$ 696,777.
  • The median (half have more, half have less) of wealth per adult in the U.S. (2025) is US$ 68,998.

Interpretation: There are a small number of very, very rich people and a big mass of relatively poor ones.

This is not healthy.

The difference is, compared to other countries, extremely stark.

For France the numbers are 341,359 average to 121,898 median.
For the UK the numbers are 292,808 average to 125,335 median.


bigger
Source: USB Global Wealth Report 2026 (pdf)

The U.S. will need some kind of wealth tax to level this out.

Comments

I support malenkov in ending tax exemption for churches , then maybe they will learn bitcoin and anonymity in giving again 🙂 

Posted by: E | Jul 7 2026 19:35 utc | 101

Posted by: Keme
what percentage of GDP should be consumed by gov‘t ?

Posted by: Exile | Jul 7 2026 19:37 utc | 102

TaChad McDougal | Jul 7 2026 17:57 utc | 36
***  Taxing the wealth and then blowing it on a politician’s whims won’t really make the poor people richer, so I’ll go with wealth tax evasion if they attempt to impose such a thing on me. ***
 
The whims of a politician put into place by the wealthy and their corrupt institutions.
Therefore, the whims of sectors of the wealthy. Or to be more accurate, the stinking rich as fronted by the Epstein Class in general and political toxins such as Mandelson, Biden, Cameron, Bush, Macron, Graham, Gore, Obama, Clinton, Blair and Trump.
 
Sectors which might even genuinely (though more likely opportunistically) disagree with each other on some matters — for instance in ID politics, wokism, global-warmist cultism and bogus “free market” economic jargon — but are, however,  collectively “the wealthy” and firmly intend  themselves to remain in that comparatively advantaged status. Class identity even if some aren’t consciously aware of it.
 
All that the majority of the population will ever be allowed to choose between, are these preferences held by sections of the Establishment. The Overclass with its personal and corporate Oligarchy rules …. so no real choice detrimental to its overall power and control will be offered, or permitted.
 
So just what are the “whims” to which you refer — and don’t they actually reside within that one-and-only Establishment’s  “permitted for imposition” category?
 

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 7 2026 19:37 utc | 103

Putting the cart before the horse in discussing taxation before the financial and monetary systems never mind the digital prisons that seem to be continually built upon!

Posted by: E | Jul 7 2026 19:38 utc | 104

A wealth tax? Oh, hell no! Sure, it sounds good on its surface, but if you are figuring out how to claw something back after the fact, you’re too damned LATE! You should have stopped it BEFORE it got to those bank accounts.
 
No new taxes (or other such bright ideas) are needed. Just go back to the tax structure we had in the 50’s, and ELIMINATE all the carve-outs, loopholes, tax shelters, and all the rest of the nonsense that have been added on since. THAT’S what the problem is. But neither party will ever do that, because they BOTH use those cute little tricks to amass their own wealth, that’s why they added them on over many decades.
 
Now they want you to cheerlead for outright confiscation, but not of THEIR wealth, oh no! Just those ‘other guys’, you know, the oligarchs who they want you to believe are hoarding what should rightfully be yours.  The idea has a cheap appeal to those who are pissed off over the ridiculous wealth disparities that have resulted from THEIR LEADERS OWN POLICIES!
 
And just who gets to value those assets to determine their ‘value’ for tax purposes? Many folks who have worked hard to own something are not cash-rich, but may own something, a house, an antique inherited from family, a piece of artwork that, through no fault of their own, has suddenly increased in value. Why should they be penalized for owning it? If they sell it, fine, take your cut then, but they shouldn’t be forced to sell because of some ‘wealth tax’.
 
And do NOT tell me that this will only apply to people like Bezos, Musk, etc. That is codswallop, and you know it! They said the EXACT SAME THING about the income tax…”only gonna hit the wealthy, yada, yada, yada”. And we all know how THAT worked out. These grifters were taxing TIPS on waitresses, for chrissakes! Not exactly ‘the wealthy’ now, are they? And during that same time, those wealthy have seen their wealth increase many times over. So, that ‘great idea’ of an income tax didn’t actually work out as it was sold…and now you want to buy another?
 
Our current ‘oligarchs’ are not the problem here, they are simply opportunists who took advantage of rule tweaks and changes put in place by our corrupt leadership class in order to enrich themselves. And that leadership class has no problem with that as long as opportunists play the game and go along, don’t make waves, don’t rock the boat.  Because it is very handy to have a group of folks you can throw under the bus when your own grifting starts to get attention.
 
So, no thanks to any ‘wealth taxing’. Any ‘wealth’ of mine has been earned, bought and paid for (with money I was also taxed on!).  It, and its perceived ‘value’, isn’t anyone’s concern UNTIL I may choose to sell it, and then I will pay any taxes owed on any profit AT THAT TIME. Not before. And the value will be determined by the actual selling price, NOT the assessed valuation of some govt ‘appraiser’.
 
 

Posted by: Bemused Observer | Jul 7 2026 19:39 utc | 105

OK, so now go to the next step:
 
How would that tax be implemented?
 
Tax code
 
 
Where would the proceeds be spent?
 
let the people who pay the taxes decide.
 
 
What would guarantee that the proceeds benefitted those who needed them the most?
 
I think most would like their taxes spent on healthcare, social infrastructure, schools, living conditions ect ect. So tldr see #2
What would prevent the über–rich from circumventing the whole shebang and continuing their greedy depredations?
 
Socialization of their assets if the wanna play profit prophet games.
 
How bout you george any thoughts?
 
 
Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 18:57 utc | 81

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jul 7 2026 19:39 utc | 106

And so…….
If they the leaders arent keeping their part of the agreement, then why should we ?
 
Time to get the tumberals rolling.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 19:39 utc | 107

Should the Clinton Foundation be tac exempt ? The Gates Foundation ? Ron Lauder‘s Charity ? AIPAC ? Kars for Kids ? 

Posted by: Exile | Jul 7 2026 19:40 utc | 108

Interesting study, but I need more information than I can find in the report.  What is this study considering “wealth”?  How do they obtain the information?  What are they considering an adult – 18 or 21 or something else?

Posted by: Belle | Jul 7 2026 19:40 utc | 109

No. A wealth tax won’t stop until its paid by everyone owning any asset. Poor people too.
 
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jul 7 2026 16:32 utc | 1
More importantly, with a Zio Imperialist government completely under the control and direction of the billionaire oligarchy, the idea of imposing such a tax is just more reformist petty bourgeois pie in the sky bullshit.  It’s a question of class power, theirs v. ours.  Only in a state of by for the working class, can the myriad problems and contradictions be solved.  From Imperialist war to the environment, well just keep lurching from crisis to crisis under the rule of Zio Imperialist Capitalism.  In our epoch, the only solution is revolution.  

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 7 2026 19:46 utc | 110

The US had the same outrageous wealth inequality in the roaring 90s, 1890s.   Back then people were class conscious and agitated for actual revolution.
So the US passed an income tax in 2013 that only applied to the top 3% of Americans.   BUT they could avoid the income tax by setting up foundations.  So they did.  And thus began the institutionalization of the ability of the ruling class to control the minds of the people.  They could before, as Marx pointed out decades before that, but now they could hire people to do it directly.
Obviously, that didn’t help and the US economy crashed in 1929.   FDR came in with a plan, and there was a big improvement in the daily lives of the majority of the people, not to mention the improvement in basic infrastructure like running water, sewers, and electricity.   Unions were legalized and the top tax rate was 93%.
 
Cut to the 80s, when the Evil Reagan came in, also with a plan.  Since then the wealth discrepancy in the US has massively skyrocketed, especially when after the 2008 crash they monetized the debts of Wall Street, putting the gambling debt onto the public debt.
 
The wealth of the US is largely that gambling debt, redefined as wealth.   But the skimming off of that wealth allows the 1% to live very well, while a big portion of Americans are either literally homeless, as in living on the street or in cars, or half-homeless, as in living with friends and relatives.
 
The wealthy now have so much control over the minds of the average American that you can see Americans strenuously objecting to trying to even out the wealth pump.  
 
We have Trump come in with a plan, also, the Heritage Foundation’s 2025 Plan, and he has jumped right in to turning all public wealth and land over to the 1%.
 
IMO, we need to stop the wealth transfer immediately.  No more comping the Wall Street gamblers.  Let capitalism do what capitalism does – crash.
 
But have a plan in place to immediately deal with the fallout for the 99%.  Screw the 1%, they can fall out of windows again.
 
Cancel the debt.  Then switch to Treasury issued money, interest free, and use it to improve America, the way the New Deal did.
 
Put people to work, paying them with that Treasury-issued money, but this time not on infrastructure building.  Regenerative farming, housing repair, water systems repair, restoring trolleys, trains, and other public transportation.   Make life better for all without wasting more energy and resources, by fixing what has already been built, but has been degraded. 
 
There is plenty of work to do.  Yes, we have too many people for everyone to work 40 hours a week, but instead of having some work and some not,  go to a 32 hour week for all.
 
We live in casino capitalism, funded by the general public debt.  That has to stop.  But let it stop naturally instead of putting another tax that the wealthy will avoid or put onto the general public.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jul 7 2026 19:48 utc | 111

Lets just stop paying tax.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 19:49 utc | 112

 
“The community which has neither poverty nor riches will always have the noblest principles.”  – Plato
 

Posted by: michaelj72 | Jul 7 2026 19:54 utc | 113

Currently, the western world is not forced to compete for the hearts and minds of it’s own population or for that matter the world’s.  The policy of mass immigration is used to placate the 2nd/3rd world while the citizens of western countries have very little choice in the matter.
 
Russia, China and Iran could have linked themselves more tightly and created their own competitive ecosystem but they chose not to…making themselves much easier to pick off piece-meal.  It’s still an option bu the elite in each country, particularly Russia, are dead set against any such arrangement.
 
Lacking an alternative system that forces western countries to compete for hearts and minds they continue down the road to perdition.  I note for the record,  I’ve known wealthy Scandinavians and they were, to an individual, experts on hiding income/wealth from their respective country’s tax man.  There less of a need for that in the US hence the skewed numbers.

Posted by: S Brennan | Jul 7 2026 19:58 utc | 114

Keme | Jul 7 2026 19:34 utc | 100
 
There’s never been “universal prosperity” in the USA–never. 

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 7 2026 20:03 utc | 115

I meant to link to this UK article responding to what seems to be an effort by the 1% there to drum up more money for their gambling by getting workers to voluntarily tithe part of each paycheck, the way American workers do for Larry Fink with their 401Ks.
That is a great scam, better than a Ponzi scam, with relies on investors actually receiving dividends.  With the 401K scam, they promise workers Pie In The Sky, Shortly Before You Die, but in the 40 years before that, receiving not one dime, as the Larry Finks of the world skim off fees the entire 40 years.   
And then the market crashes and the 401K is worth nothing, but Larry Fink has lived high on the hog in the meantime.
Oh, and the psychological benefits are also very worthwhile to the ruling class  Listen to Trump and Karoline Leavitt telling the workers with 401Ks that  the increases in the gambling debt  are benefiting them.   Don’t think that people are too smart to fall for that obvious bullshit.  They are not.
 
https://new-wayland.com/blog/state-and-the-casino-pension-crisis-manufactured/

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jul 7 2026 20:03 utc | 116

Posted by: bevin | Jul 7 2026 17:56 utc | 35

Neoliberalism was used to end progressive taxation, end a strong financial regulatory regime, and propagate the idea the rich use their surplus incomes to invest in new production which creates jobs. ‘Neoliberalism’ was the label given to the type of economy Milton Freidman said would unleash the productive forces of the economy by providing windfall profits to capitalists who would then invest in greater productivity. Freidman’s advice was to deregulate and cut taxes and when this new political economy was implemented it did regenerate corporate profits but those profits fueled investment in financial speculation and lobbying to cut taxes and regulations further. The result of neoliberalism is found in the chart posted and increased GINI measure. 
bevin is correct that the increased wealth of the oligarchs leads directly to fascism as a response to maintain governing power by the elites. Increased inequality of incomes leads to the propagation of emotional issues like immigration and the need for wars in pursuit of national supremacy, which appeals to the revolting masses, who are easily mislead by subjection. 
 
 

Posted by: Keme | Jul 7 2026 20:08 utc | 117

A capital idea is to begin the wealth tax with capital removal. 
 
Zeus strikes the tall trees. Off with their heads.

Posted by: duck n cover | Jul 7 2026 20:17 utc | 118

Exile 
I will try to explain why your comment is crazy.
 
First think local. Your street needs potholes fixed.  9 of yor neighbours voluntarily join to pay for it to be fixed. One does not.  You either carry the freeloader or use force to stop them using the road or force them to pay up.
 
Then rubbish collection. Sure most will pay a private collector but what of those with no money or wish. The rubbish piles up. Rats breed and before long they are eating you wiring.
 
Then there is clean water.  Voluntary taxes would mean each house holder would need to organise their own delivery of water or accept that many will not pay for the collective system or cut off the non payers. The result of the last option would be people using the street for their bodily waste probably in the front if your home. 
 
These are just the obvious local issues. 

Posted by: Watcher | Jul 7 2026 20:18 utc | 119

Posted by: malenkov | Jul 7 2026 19:02 utc | 85
Instead, I’d suggest a tax on any transaction involving stocks (including options) as well as commodities futures. I’d also forbid compensation in the form of options.

there is already a tax on transfers of intangible assets.. its called capital gains .. intangible assets are stocks remember Accounts /Receivables, copyrights, patents, goodwill, license deals, investments in currency, franchises, and the like are all untaxed <=until sold at a profit and they represent the balance sheets of most wealthy people and according to those who report such things (i.e. Ocean Tomo) >90% of the balance sheet of public companies are intangible properties.  Intangibles on a persons or an entities balance sheet should be taxed at 50% of value each year. Not only would a 50% tax on intangibles provide income from taxes but it would destroy much monopoly power which would move the nation from you cannot compete monopolism back toward competitive capitalism.  Remember when America was Great its economic system was competitive capitalism.  The justice department did a fair job of breaking up monopoly powers.. until about 1960s.. It all started with the continental shelf act 1954 and the Scranton Commission about 1948 and Truman’s proclaimation that the USA owned all of the land under the sea and 20 miles inland worldwide.. That’s when things went south..  
someone asked what should be done with the taxes collected.. I suggest the money collected from taxes be retired [reduce the outstanding national debt) and be taken out of service..  In that way, the national debt can be retired or at least kept in bounds of rationality. 
Have a look at the changes in the tax laws since the Epstein class took over.. 
U.S. “max” statutory tax rates (selected years), with individual top marginal rate including surtaxes/add-ons

Year
Max individual income tax rate (incl. surtaxes/add-ons)
Max corporate income tax rate (taxable entities)
Max estate tax rate
Max gift tax rate

1950
91%
42%
77%
30%

1960
91%
52%
77%
30%

1970
70%
49.2%
70%
32%

1980
70%
46%
70%
32%

1990
31%*
34%
60%
60%

2000
39.6%*
35%
60%
50%

2010*
35%
35%*
35%
35%

2020
37%
21%
40%*
40%

Posted by: snake | Jul 7 2026 20:23 utc | 120

How about this for a lovely bit of music, to go along with the topic….
Search….
 
The theme song to robin hood.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 20:23 utc | 121

wagelaborer | Jul 7 2026 19:48 utc | 111
 
Some good ideas in your comment, the most important being the negating of private control of finance and money issuance. Then there’s the issue of controlling the means of production. Tied into all of that is the nature of government and the national economy. Knowing how we got into the mess the West is in helps and can provide direction. Marx tried to do just that, and Hudson has provided an excellent series of follow-ups. Russia, China, Korea, Vietnam, and Cuba all had revolutions that eliminated the financial class and instituted government control over that vital sector. All those nations also do long-term economic planning that informs how the state will go about investing in the economy. Most of those nations now have some form of private business ownership, but they must conform to the demands of society to share. If you don’t share, the public will punish you in the market by not buying your products. 
 
The problem plaguing Western nations that haven’t had a revolution that completely overturned the ruling elite and their institutions is they all have a massive educational deficit–they don’t know how they became the way they are–and are incapable of attaining solidarity for a variety of divide and rule reasons. All of that is revealed in this thread.     

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 7 2026 20:27 utc | 122

Does there actually need to be an expansion of taxation? How about properly enforcing the tax regulations that already exist?
 
Close the loopholes, make being a taxation lawyer about as popular as a leper, could even start naming and shaming.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Jul 7 2026 20:27 utc | 123

Beware the oligarchs.
 
Beware the oligarchies.
 
All of them.
 
 

Posted by: John Gilberts | Jul 7 2026 20:31 utc | 124

The US apparently is not interested in socialism but the problem is war is socialized but health care is not . 

Posted by: Cheryl | Jul 7 2026 20:32 utc | 125

the commies take over New York City and soon the buildings start to collapse. and you want to give them *more* of Wall Street’s hard-earned money?
 
anyway, of the Fortune 100 (or 500) companies, which ones are directly developed by the USG itself and then privatized, which are basically gov’t subcontractors, which have 50% or more of their revenue coming from gov’t contracts? what % of GDP is “financial services,” ie, a bunch of BS?
 
there is a zero percent chance of any meaningful “wealth tax” under the existing social order. and by military budget increases, the other NATO powers will only more and more resemble the US.
 
let’s all strain at the gnat of Trump’s crimes and disorders while a camel is being shoved up our collective asses. a two-humped camel.

Posted by: duck n cover | Jul 7 2026 20:32 utc | 126

Another slant on this: admittedly a bit naive, but anyhow, here goes:
 
Two approaches to the problem of wealth distribution (which assumes that one is interested in achieving something like fairness in that, not pouring more slop in the über-rich’s troughs):

  1. Alleviating or ameliorating the problem by tinkering with the tax system and other financial mechanisms, like the “wealth tax” being discussed here. This would transfer some $$$ from the wealthy to the bottom non-wealthy, but does nothing to change the structural problems that create wealth inequality in the first place: the fact that the poor even exist. It’s similar to the “solution” of using church (which believes “the poor will always be with us”) and charity to try to even things out, kinda sorta.This is basically the preferred neoliberal fix. Basically apply a band-aid and kick the can down the road.
  2. Fixing the problem at its root cause: namely, by total revolution. The Bolshevik/Chinese/Cuban/Nicaraguan/Venezuelan solution. Communism, in one form or another. A complete revision of class relations and a true leveling, so far as is possible on the planet, of wealth distribution.

I’ve pointed out the problems with the first choice.
 
The revolutionary choice comes with its own set of problems. I’m a fan of socialism/communism, but I’m not naive enough to deny just how badly they’ve been implemented, in each and every case, and in some cases made the economic situation far worse.
 
So if we’re thinking about the revolutionary choice, the crucial thing is: how do we accomplish this without recreating the fuck-ups of the past that led to such excesses as the Gulag, the Cultural Revolution, the clampdowns on human rights?
 
Is that even possible?
 
Just a trivial little problem.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 20:38 utc | 127

duck n cover | Jul 7 2026 20:32 utc | 126
 
“the commies take over New York City and soon the buildings start to collapse. and you want to give them *more* of Wall Street’s hard-earned money?”
 
Too funny!! That was already done by the Neoliberals which is why Mamdani was elected. 

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 7 2026 20:40 utc | 128

the commies take over New York City and soon the buildings start to collapse. and you want to give them *more* of Wall Street’s hard-earned money?
 
Posted by: duck n cover | Jul 7 2026 20:32 utc | 126
====================================
 
That sounds like an excellent argument in favor of Trump capitalism.
 
After all, he made his name and early success by large-scale construction and rehabilitation in NYC, something that he was told couldn’t be done. But he contributed bigly to the “cleaning up” of that city’s core.
 
Now you want to remove any and all safeguards against the downsides and depredations of that crony capitalism.
 
Just watched an excellent film on the subject, The Apprentice, which shows his rise through real estate in NYC. Explains a lot.
 
I can see why you chose that username.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 20:43 utc | 129

Posted by: duck n cover | Jul 7 2026 20:32 utc | 126
====================================
 
Unless you’re being so sarcastic that it pegged my irony meter and I disregarded its reading.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 20:45 utc | 130

Does there actually need to be an expansion of taxation?
 
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Jul 7 2026 20:27 utc | 123
 

 
Yes!  Capital isn’t adequately taxed.
 
Things are now so out of wack that tax rates will need to be punitive to re-balance the economy.
 
Alternatively, do nothing and let the US debt market collapse.  Money always finds  home, its moving East.
 

Posted by: too scents | Jul 7 2026 20:47 utc | 131

George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 20:38 utc | 127
 
The Gulag was an already existing institution. Mao wasn’t an economist and very few of his comrades had read Marx. Similar problem with the Soviets. However, a commonality with all was the recognition that education was the key to progress. Another shared problem was the crusade led by Capitalist nations to destroy those seeking equality, a crusade that continues today.  

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 7 2026 20:47 utc | 132

Posted by: malenkov | Jul 7 2026 19:23 utc | 92
 
Speaking of dreaming, one often hears about how badly we need an Article V Constitutional Convention to replace the (woefully inadequate and obsolescent) United States Constitution. The only problem with that is that it would be the oligarchs who would buy the Convention. It’s no coincidence that the last real push for such a Convention came from various front groups for the Koch Brothers.

 
Thanks for your reply malenkov. However, I believe you need to read the link I posted at #41, because it explains how america’s ‘revolutionary war’ wasn’t revolutionary whatsoever. Should the american people ever rise again to actually fight a revolutionary war, to form a more perfect union, the oligarchy would be the first to disappear.
 
I too liked your reply to Mark2’s idea of taxing political contributions, but I particularly liked your dream of taxing religious entities. Long overdue. 
 

Posted by: aye, myself & me | Jul 7 2026 20:48 utc | 133

Thank you much for your assistance George the Zeroth!

Posted by: aye, myself & me | Jul 7 2026 20:50 utc | 134

 
Have a look at the changes in the tax laws since the Epstein class took over.. second try to get format that works. 
U.S. “max” statutory tax rates (selected years), with individual top marginal rate including surtaxes/add-ons

……………MAX TAX RATE BY SELECTED YEARS………….. Yr………individual…Corporate…Estate……. Gift Yr………. income….Income……..Tax…………TaxYr………..tax rate….tax rate…….Rate……….Rate1950  …..91.0%……42.0%……..77.0%……30.0%…..1960  …..91.0%……52.0%……..77.0%……30.0%…..1970  …..70.0%……49.2%……..70.0%……32.0%…..1980  …..70.0%……46.0%……..70.0%……32.0%…..1990  …..31.0%*…..34.0%……..60.0%……60.0%…..2000  …..39.6%*…..35.0%…….60.0%……50.0%…..2010* …..35.0%……35.0%*……35.0%……35.0%…..2020  …..37.0%…….21.0%…….40.0%*…..40.0%……

Posted by: snake | Jul 7 2026 20:52 utc | 135

Probably a violation of the 4th ammendment, but most certainly a violation of the “taking clause” as most of the so-called wealth is not money (cash, bonds) rather ownership of tangibles (land, equipment, resources, and their representations (stocks)..  SCOTUS expanded real property definition long ago to include corporate assets, so ……… unless wealth is to be defined as a crime.

Posted by: seenitbefore | Jul 7 2026 20:54 utc | 136

A wealth tax? Are you kidding me? We are so far beyond that, we might as well be in a different universe. What we need is a revolution that includes firing squads for these people. 
People need to wake up. A wealth tax is never going to happen. They control the governing regime, and are too entitled to allow such a tax to come into existence. These people use the state to vacuum resources from all of us to enrich themselves and they use the state (police) to instill terror and attack and imprison anyone that dares complain about their most violent proclivities. The state will never seek justice against them. The only means of bringing justice to the western world is for the people to rise up, tear down the state, destroy this class of people, and start over with a better system. 
Literal law-of-the-jungle chaos would be better than what we have, because at least then we could gather up our neighbors and protect each other. Under the current regime these people are attacking us via social murder and stealing from us via their top down organization of the economy to siphon away any wealth/resources any of us peasants manage to attain in any way. 
A wealth tax is just more milquetoast BS that amounts to virtue signalling. Calling for a wealth tax is equivalent to calling for a two state solution. 

Posted by: Arkady Bogdanov | Jul 7 2026 20:54 utc | 137

 
Have a look at the changes in the tax laws since the Epstein class took over.. third try to get format that works. 
U.S. “max” statutory tax rates (selected years), with individual top marginal rate including surtaxes/add-ons

……………MAX TAX RATE BY SELECTED YEARS………….. Yr………individual…Corporate…Estate……. Gift….. 
Yr………. income….Income……..Tax…………Tax…..
Yr………..tax rate….tax rate…….Rate……….Rate…..
1950  …..91.0%……42.0%……..77.0%……30.0%…..
1960  …..91.0%……52.0%……..77.0%……30.0%…..
1970  …..70.0%……49.2%……..70.0%……32.0%…..
1980  …..70.0%……46.0%……..70.0%……32.0%…..
1990  …..31.0%*…..34.0%……..60.0%……60.0%…..
2000  …..39.6%*…..35.0%…….60.0%……50.0%…..
2010* …..35.0%……35.0%*……35.0%……35.0%…..
2020  …..37.0%…….21.0%…….40.0%*…..40.0%……
 

Posted by: snake | Jul 7 2026 20:54 utc | 138

The Gulag was an already existing institution. Mao wasn’t an economist and very few of his comrades had read Marx. Similar problem with the Soviets.
 
Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 7 2026 20:47 utc | 132
===============================
 
I agree about the Soviets, but only insofar as Stalin’s leadership forward was concerned.
 
It’s true that Lenin and Trotsky weren’t trained economists, but their grasp of Russia’s existential situation and what remedies might work to achieve their egalitarian goals was pretty damn good. Despite the obvious mistakes they made, like the NEP.
 
I saw the same dynamic at work in Nicaragua when I visited there in 1988; the Sandinistas were, so far as I could tell, earnestly acting in good faith in trying to level the economic playing field. But they didn’t have a good grasp of basic economic policy: I remember going through the markets in Managua and Masaya, where there was plenty of food that was really expensive.
 
And of course, as you point out, every true socialist or communist project has had an uphill battle due to the never-ending attacks by … the usual suspects.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 20:55 utc | 139

Posted by: Arkady Bogdanov | Jul 7 2026 20:54 utc | 137
=======================================
 
Yes. +10.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 20:58 utc | 140

Posted by: Exile | Jul 7 2026 19:37 utc | 102

Enough to spend the surplus capital accrued by the bourgeois. 

Posted by: Keme | Jul 7 2026 20:58 utc | 141

A wealth tax that goes to the government will not go to the poor. The government does not need more income. 

Posted by: Kansas | Jul 7 2026 20:59 utc | 142

Should the american people ever rise again to actually fight a revolutionary war, to form a more perfect union, the oligarchy would be the first to disappear.
 
Posted by: aye, myself & me | Jul 7 2026 20:48 utc | 133

 
If only … but no, “libruls” and various despised minorities would be the first to disappear, because they’d be vastly outgunned by federal, state, and local law enforcement, augmented by the “militias” and other 2A fanatics — all of which skew greatly to the right. 

Posted by: malenkov | Jul 7 2026 21:05 utc | 143

My attempt at formatting. Dunno if it’ll work ’cause I used spaces instead of periods.
 
MAX TAX RATE BY SELECTED YEARS
 
                Individual    Corporate    Estate      Gift
                income          income        tax            tax
Year        tax rate         tax rate        rate           rate
==================================
1950        91.0%           42.0%           77.0%       30.0%
1960       91.0%            52.0%           77.0%       30.0%
1970        70.0%          49.2%            70.0%       32.0%
1980        70.0%         46.0%            70.0%       32.0%
1990        31.0%*        34.0%           60.0%        60.0%
2000       39.6%*        35.0%           60.0%        50.0%
2010*      35.0%          35.0%*         35.0%        35.0%
2020        37.0%         21.0%            40.0%*      40.0%

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 21:07 utc | 144

Not bad.
Use spaces and line everything up as best you can.
 
And remember to use the proper # of blank lines for line breaks.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 21:08 utc | 145

because they’d be vastly outgunned by federal, state, and local law enforcement
 
Posted by: malenkov | Jul 7 2026 21:05 utc | 143
 

 
I’m pretty sure if there ever is a US American uprising it will be fought with spoons and not with guns.
 

Posted by: too scents | Jul 7 2026 21:08 utc | 146

I’m pretty sure if there ever is a US American uprising it will be fought with spoons and not with guns. 
Posted by: too scents | Jul 7 2026 21:08 utc | 146
=================================
 
Gotta get them guns in the hands of the Socialists and other “lefties”. (But first you’ll have to cure them of their aversion to owning and using firearms.)
 
Most, not all, of the 2A crowd ain’t gonna do anything remotely egalitarian here.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 21:12 utc | 147

Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 19:49 utc | 112
*** Lets just stop paying tax. ***
 
Except that’s a practical impossibility — for instance, VAT.
Part of the Political Establishment’s cultist “economics” myth is that within a population there are people (classed by the system as) being “economically inactive”. When actually, there aren’t — not even the dead.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 7 2026 21:16 utc | 148

Their power is but an illusion.
 
“We are the many they are the few” …
Shelly.
 
And jerimy Corbin.  Granted it did’nt work out for Corbyn.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 21:16 utc | 149

the 2A crowd ain’t gonna do anything remotely egalitarian here.
 
Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 21:12 utc | 147
 

 
What are they going to do when their MREs run out?  Order take out?
 

Posted by: too scents | Jul 7 2026 21:19 utc | 150

Their power is but an illusion. “We are the many they are the few” …
Shelly.
 
Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 21:16 utc | 149
===============================
 
Mark, Mark, Mark:
You obviously haven’t really thought this through.
 
If the “many” are totally pwned by the system, maybe they grumble but they go along with the system in the end, drive their SUVs around their suburban malls, but the “few” are the ones with their hands on the levers of power, then there’ll be no revolution, no real change. Just a whole lot of societal division, like what we got today. Which puts the lie to that convincing-sounding quote.
 
Sure, there’s the “many”, and they (we) do have the power should they (we) choose to wield it.
But will they (we)?
 
Beware of convincing-sounding quotes.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 21:22 utc | 151

the 2A crowd ain’t gonna do anything remotely egalitarian here. Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 21:12 utc | 147 — What are they going to do when their MREs run out?  Order take out?
 
Posted by: too scents | Jul 7 2026 21:19 utc | 150
=================================
 
Admittedly a good question.

  • Hunt local wildlife populations to extinction
  • Shoot their non-prepper neighbors and seize their provisions
  • Shoot their neighbors and eat them
  • Master off-grid farming/gardening
  • Shoot themselves

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 21:26 utc | 152

when their MREs run out
 
Posted by: too scents | Jul 7 2026 21:19 utc | 150
 

 

Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Declares an Emergency and Authorizes the Temporary Suspension of Certain Duties on Phosphate Fertilizer from Morocco
 
The White House

June 29, 2026

PROTECTING AMERICA’S FOOD SUPPLY: Today, President Donald J. Trump took action to safeguard America’s food supply and support domestic agricultural production by authorizing the temporary suspension of certain duties on phosphate fertilizer imported from Morocco, helping ensure an adequate supply of phosphate fertilizer for American Farmers.

  • The proclamation declares an emergency regarding threats to the availability of sufficient supplies of fertilizers to meet America’s agricultural demand.

continues ==> https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2026/06/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-trump-declares-an-emergency-and-authorizes-the-temporary-suspension-of-certain-duties-on-phosphate-fertilizer-from-morocco/
 

Posted by: too scents | Jul 7 2026 21:26 utc | 153

In Australia, under the superannuation guarantee, employers must pay super contributions of 12% of an employee’s qualifying earnings as well as a 10% GST, and taxes on earnings.
 
The major benefit is Medicare and public hospitals give Australians access to health care at low or no cost.

Posted by: Menz | Jul 7 2026 21:27 utc | 154

A lot of plans, a lot of thinking of plans but, the dirty work of enacting them, not fantasy, the brass tacks…the reality?  Not so much.  The mechanism that can actually coerce change is the root problem.  As a man said above, and I paraphrase, what’s a law without enforcement?

Posted by: S Brennan | Jul 7 2026 21:27 utc | 155

Cynic @ 148
Of course your right. But….
I took b’s original post as mainly hypothtical, as are the majority of the comments, we can aspire to an ideal fair world, but as you say all our suggestions are easyer said than put into action or reality.
As was my ill thought out… lets stop paying tax.
 
Look at it as a thought provoking aid. In this exelent post and comment thread.
Respect.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 21:29 utc | 156

‘Calling for a wealth tax is equivalent to calling for a two state solution.’

So Jeffrey Sachs probably supports it 😉

A problem we have is some of the heroes they present to us aren’t at all on our side when it comes to ‘material benefits’.

George of Zeroth and I had a somewhat extensive back-and-forth the other day regarding Julian Mendax Assange.

I don’t want to delve into that again too much other than to ask what Assange’s opinion on this might be?

I don’t think it lines up with most of us here who want a better ‘distribution of resources.’

Assange rarely talked about the wealth divide when it should be front and center all the time.

Every second of every day.

The retort to this would probably be that he was too busy with the all-important work of fighting for govt transparency to which I would respond that is thoroughly ridiculous when we little people out here are told the fight is always multidimensional and we have to fight many battles all at once.

We have to walk and chew gum but they don’t.

Here is what the vaunted freedom-loving Ed Snowden thinks about social safety nets and the like:

https://archive.ph/hRPe2#selection-2607.0-2607.26

https://archive.ph/hRPe2#selection-2873.0-2873.11

Please read the entire article. The case I have been making is that these hero personalities are not who we thought they were.

They are using our legitimate fear of our freedoms and liberties being even further eroded against us to in fact further erode both our freedoms and especially our living standards.

I do not believe that we will all be on the same page with everything, obviously.

But when there is such a vast chasm between the ‘right-libertarian’ ideas of freedom and ours, we simply cannot have these people in our camp as they quite clearly don’t care about the same most basic human needs as we do.

Ed Snowden is a repulsive piece of shit.

We never needed him and we never needed Assange and we don’t need any of these hero personalities going forward.

Are we going to blindly follow the next hero they dangle in front of us even after everything we know now…?

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 21:30 utc | 157

*** Freidman’s advice was to deregulate and cut taxes and when this new political economy was implemented it did regenerate corporate profits but those profits fueled investment in financial speculation and lobbying to cut taxes and regulations further. ***
Posted by: Keme | Jul 7 2026 20:08 utc | 117
 
This never happened on the planet where I lived, Mr. Keme. Tip O’Neil preside over this? C’mon.  

Posted by: frithguild | Jul 7 2026 21:33 utc | 158

The mechanism that can actually coerce change is the root problem.  As a man said above, and I paraphrase, what’s a law without enforcement?
 
Posted by: S Brennan | Jul 7 2026 21:27 utc | 155
==================================
 
With that I heartily agree.
 
And I like the way you phrased that, because such changes—revolutionary changes—are always, by their nature, coerced. They never flow naturally from any mass changes in attitudes, which starry-eyed idealists imagine will happen if only we can reach that 100th monkey. No, they must be forced—and that means actual, physical force, force that causes pain and dislocation and death. It can never be a gentle process without injuries; that’s just the reality down here on planet Earth.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 21:34 utc | 159

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 21:30 utc | 157
==========================================
 
I’m getting really fucking annoyed with your bullshit concerning Assange, Snowden et al.
 
It seems all you can do is try to take the wind out of the sails of people who are actually trying to do something good in the world; perhaps failing, but at least trying.
 
They’re on our side, for fuck’s sake.
 
Whose side are you on?
 
I don’t know just what your agenda is; it’s obvious you have one, but all I can say is it sucks.
 
It’s just F.U.D. Nothing constructive that I can see.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 21:38 utc | 160

Keme | Jul 7 2026 20:08 utc | 117*** Neoliberalism was used to end progressive taxation, end a strong financial regulatory regime, and propagate the idea the rich use their surplus incomes to invest in new production which creates jobs. “Neoliberalism” was the label given to the type of economy Milton Freidman said would unleash the productive forces of the economy by providing windfall profits to capitalists who would then invest in greater productivity. Freidman’s advice was to deregulate and cut taxes and when this new political economy was implemented it did regenerate corporate profits but those profits fueled investment in financial speculation and lobbying to cut taxes and regulations further. The result of neoliberalism is found in the chart posted and increased GINI measure. Bevin is correct that the increased wealth of the oligarchs leads directly to fascism as a response to maintain governing power by the elites. Increased inequality of incomes leads to the propagation of emotional issues like immigration and the need for wars in pursuit of national supremacy, which appeals to the revolting masses, who are easily mislead by subjection. ***Freidman, Mises and others on their side also stated the need for there to be “basic income”. But– while enthusiastically adopting and imposing all the rip-off and fatcat/speculator enriching parts of “monetarist” and related theory as holy writ — the ideologues, corporate whores and spivs in political power have contrived to ignore and forget the section which recommended that proper provision be made for the non-rich.Much as they and their essentially neoliberal predecessors deliberately ignored the warnings of Adam Smith about the potential threat to the nation and population from big corporate entities.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 7 2026 21:41 utc | 161

Feature, not a bug

Posted by: Newbie | Jul 7 2026 21:41 utc | 162

Keme | Jul 7 2026 20:08 utc | 117
*** Neoliberalism was used to end progressive taxation, end a strong financial regulatory regime, and propagate the idea the rich use their surplus incomes to invest in new production which creates jobs. “Neoliberalism” was the label given to the type of economy Milton Freidman said would unleash the productive forces of the economy by providing windfall profits to capitalists who would then invest in greater productivity. Freidman’s advice was to deregulate and cut taxes and when this new political economy was implemented it did regenerate corporate profits but those profits fueled investment in financial speculation and lobbying to cut taxes and regulations further. The result of neoliberalism is found in the chart posted and increased GINI measure.
Bevin is correct that the increased wealth of the oligarchs leads directly to fascism as a response to maintain governing power by the elites. Increased inequality of incomes leads to the propagation of emotional issues like immigration and the need for wars in pursuit of national supremacy, which appeals to the revolting masses, who are easily mislead by subjection. ***
 
Freidman, Mises and others on their side also stated the need for there to be “basic income”. 
 
But– while enthusiastically adopting and imposing all the rip-off and fatcat/speculator enriching parts of “monetarist” and related theory as holy writ — the ideologues, corporate whores and spivs in political power have contrived to ignore and forget the section which recommended that proper provision be made for the non-rich.
 
Much as they and their essentially neoliberal predecessors deliberately ignored the warnings of Adam Smith about the potential threat to the nation and population from big corporate entities.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 7 2026 21:45 utc | 163

The best way to survive a nucular bomb, is to be some where else.
 
I love the simpicity of that statment.
 
As it happens it perfectly fits this topic. 
 
Just opt out.
 
Or conversily, and no one has suggest it yet, here….
 
Beat them at their own game.
 
Note,   i,v  switched from hypothetical to practical suggestions for the idividual.
Have your very own personal opt out revolution.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 21:46 utc | 164

Change is coming.  It came to Iran, by means of perfidy against its leadership.  We are witnessing that change.  And we hope there will be a trickle down effect, which we already see signs of in New York.  The dam is breaking:  money is not leadership.  I believe the first step will be a change of leadership — how that will happen is up to the people, but only that way can the forces presently controlling the US be faced and shaken.
 
Here’s something from the past to stimulate that process.  Remember, history doesn’t repeat; but it does rhyme:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zk02nzkOlk

Posted by: juliania | Jul 7 2026 21:47 utc | 165

Sorry if I’ve posted the same three times — was trying to sort formatting
and now a posting problem as well.

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 7 2026 21:47 utc | 166

Is this what MoA is now? Naughty FIFA, naughty USA, populist empty solutions that sound like a conversation with an ignorant neighbour (“They should really do something about…!”), or else a random comment (by the same poster) anointed as op-ed.
 
Comments here used to be intellectually challenging. Now one scrolls through drivel looking for a name only to find they can’t really be bothered any more because who reads it, much less understands it? Compare this to 2023 and earlier. My weekly check in is becoming fortnightly, when once it was a daily necessity.
I’m saying it at the risk of the inevitable backlash (but who cares, right?): this old site ain’t what she used to be.

Posted by: Patroklos | Jul 7 2026 21:58 utc | 167

‘They’re on our side, for fuck’s sake.

Whose side are you on?’ George the Zeroth 160

‘Whose side are you on?’

The side of the oppressed.

The grassroots.

The man on the street.

The woman on the street.

The human being whose most basic needs aren’t met through absolutely no fault of their own.

”They’re on our side, for fuck’s sake.’

Oh?

‘The high unemployment rate that was on the way for the US didn’t phase Snowden; those wringing their hands and seeking conventional Keynesian solutions seemed softheaded to him.

Rising unemployment was a mere “correction,” a “necessary part of capitalism.”

Fears that Obama might revive an assault weapons ban didn’t sit well with him as a defender of the Second Amendment.

[I am not anti-gun but I’m not pro assault weapon]

Another sticking point was social security. Snowden was an individualist, even when it was unpopular; he saw little need for a safety net.

Snowden and the gang’s own words:

‘save money? cut this social security bullshit’

‘Somehow, our society managed to make it hundreds of years without social security just fine’

‘you fucking retards’ [to people who care about us]

‘Magically the world changed after the new deal, and old people became made of glass’

‘you don’t think modern medicine has something to do with that? no? it’s social security? wow. I guess I missed that.’

[fascinatingly many of snowden’s ilk are now saying modern medicine has actually increased disease and is largely just a corporate scam at this point…much of which I agree with]

More Snowden:

‘they wouldn’t be fucking helpless if you weren’t sending them fucking checks to sit on their ass and lay in hospitals all day’

‘my grandmother is eighty fucking three this year, and you know what? she still supports herself working as a goddamned hairdresser…she doesn’t approve of social security, either’

And, finally, old Eddie will bring us back where we started with this gem:

‘maybe when you grow up and actually pay taxes, you’ll understand’

So, George of Zeroth, why pray tell do you consider this man to be on your side?

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 22:05 utc | 168

A list in no particular order:
 
On Our Side             Not On Our Side
==============================
John Mearsheimer     Donald Trump
Glenn Greenwald        Benjamin Netanyahu
Jeffrey Sachs                Volodymyr Zelensky
Nima Alkhorshid          Ben Shapiro
Max Blumenthal          Ursula vol der Leyen
Aaron Maté                   Kaja Kallas
Julian Assange              Ahmed al-Sharaa (al Jolani)
Edward Snowden         Marco Rubio
Daniel Ellesberg            Pete Kegsbreath
Ray McGovern               Jared Kushner
Alexander Mercouris    Mark Carney
Danny Haiphong           Anthony Albanese
John Helmer                  Emmanuel Macron
Craig Murray                  Keir Starmer
George Galloway
Chris Hedges
John Kiriakou
Joe Lauria
Ron Paul
Cenk Uygur
Vladimir Putin
 
… etc., etc., etc.
 
Now I’m not trying to shove this list down people’s throats here, not trying the Marx Brothers’ leg-pull trick here to simulate (or stimulate) agreement. I know some of you seem to hate some of the folks on the left side here; we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.
 
I’ve included some historical figures as well as living persons.
 
Point is there are, roughly speaking, two sides here (as Jeremy of the rhyming slang mentioned here earlier): those who are trying to make life here on Earth better and those who are not.
 
Question is, as the old insurrectionist song in the U.S. in the 30s asked: Which Side are you On?

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 22:08 utc | 169

Patroklos @ 166
A lot of the best commenters have been driven off by the fake name user, and his cohourt, deliberatly, sadly.
 
Plus dont forget, this ‘ world im’ is’nt what she used to be, you cant blame this site for that.
 
Links are much harder to find these days due to algarthyme developents, virtualy no actavist sites,  or opposing news. Just public perseption manigment, and fascism.
 
Dont shoot us mere messingers.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 22:09 utc | 170

George, what do you make of Snowden’s words?

I ask again: Why do you count him on your side?

Are you rich?

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 22:11 utc | 171

More Snowden:
‘they wouldn’t be fucking helpless if you weren’t sending them fucking checks to sit on their ass and lay in hospitals all day’
‘my grandmother is eighty fucking three this year, and you know what? she still supports herself working as a goddamned hairdresser…she doesn’t approve of social security, either’
And, finally, old Eddie will bring us back where we started with this gem:
‘maybe when you grow up and actually pay taxes, you’ll understand’
 
Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 22:05 utc | 167
===========================================
 
Links to those supposed comments? References?
I guess I need to go all Wikipedia on your ass here.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 22:11 utc | 172

Taxation is theft
Volunteerism is the future 

Posted by: PubliusFlavius | Jul 7 2026 22:12 utc | 173

@ Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 22:05 utc | 167
 
Snowden is a libertarian: good when it comes to civil liberties, bad (imho) when it comes to social welfare issues. 
 
He’s a Russian citizen now and unlikely to ever return to the USA.

Posted by: malenkov | Jul 7 2026 22:13 utc | 174

Oops; forgot the link to the Marx Brothers leg-pull routine I meant to include up above.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 22:13 utc | 175

From Imperialist war to the environment, well just keep lurching from crisis to crisis under the rule of Zio Imperialist Capitalism. In our epoch, the only solution is revolution.  
 
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jul 7 2026 19:46 utc | 110

A revolution in our affairs is necessary,  although we’d be on different factions.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jul 7 2026 22:16 utc | 176

‘Links to those supposed comments? References?’

George, you have to calm down. The links were provided at 157.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2026/07/why-a-u-s-wealth-tax-is-needed.html/comment-page-2#comment-1380925

Get a hold of yourself, please.

I know it is difficult to come to terms with this but it is very necessary.

Here is a non-archive version:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/exclusive-in-2009-ed-snowden-said-leakers-should-be-shot-then-he-became-one/

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 22:18 utc | 177

Snowden is a libertarian: good when it comes to civil liberties, bad (imho) when it comes to social welfare issues.
 
Posted by: malenkov | Jul 7 2026 22:13 utc | 173
=================================
 
Yes. And you know what? I can pick and choose:
One from column “A” (nat’l. security whistleblowing), nothing from column “B”, thank you very much.
 
See how that works?
 
The one website I check every damn day, and have for the last 30 years, is Antiwar.com, which is run by—horrors!—antiwar libertarians and Republicans! And yet they regularly host some of those “good guys” I listed above, and have stuck to their principles this whole time.
 
I can still admire Matt Taibbi, whose Substack I used to subscribe to, on the few occasions (very few these days) he hits the nail on the head journalistically speaking on substantive issues, even though I deplore his becoming a MAGA whore the rest of the time and grinding his axe on culture-war bullshit.
 
Sometimes we hope for the best of those who might be our heroes, even if we’re regularly and often disappointed by them.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 22:21 utc | 178

‘He’s a Russian citizen now and unlikely to ever return to the USA.’

I am aware.

Must be nice.

We have to fight on the ground here. I have people I care about here who cannot leave nor can I even if I wanted to.

Is Snowden entirely estranged from his US family – many of whom themselves have military backgrounds?

What gives?

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 22:22 utc | 179

Wealth tax can nail anyone with a small business, or ones who have owned their homes for 30 plus years.   The real problem is the financial class (and I’m including the likes of the tech titans who are mere bagmen).  Bring back depression era  stock market laws.  Also, and I really hate myself even thinking this, up the capital gain tax.   Finally you really need to deal with  salary cutting immigrants.  

Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Jul 7 2026 22:26 utc | 180

I think the fact that Snowden did what he did despite having less-than-stellar social and political beliefs beforehand makes him all the more worthy of praise.
 
Like Tucker Carlson. What do you think of him, “Agonizing”? Do you deplore him because of his Fox News/pro-Trump beliefs back in the day?
 
What about his admission of being wrong then, and doing a 180 on that bad old shit: does that count for nothing?

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 22:28 utc | 181

Bring back depression era  stock market laws.
 
Posted by: Old and Grumpy | Jul 7 2026 22:26 utc | 179
======================================
 
Yes, and for gawd’s sake at least Glass-Steagall, which was done away with by that eminent, empathetic lib’rul Bill Clinton at the behest of Wall St.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 22:30 utc | 182

‘Sometimes we hope for the best of those who might be our heroes, even if we’re regularly and often disappointed by them.’

George, do you support social safety nets of any degree whatsoever yourself?

What is your own financial situation?

If you were working with Snowden on privacy issues and then the conversation turned to issues of the human misery we are discussing and Snowden belched out his extraordinarily intense feelings of deep-seated hatred at the downtrodden…

…you would simply smile and say ‘agree to disagree on this one, Ed, but I love ya otherwise buddy!’

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 22:30 utc | 183

‘Like Tucker Carlson. What do you think of him, “Agonizing”? Do you deplore him because of his Fox News/pro-Trump beliefs back in the day?’

I don’t despise any fo these people.

They aren’t worth the energy.

Hatred is a killer.

As to Carlson versus Snowden it’s not an apples-to-apples situation at all.

But, I would simply say that Carlson has publicly apologized for what it’s worth while I do not believe too many are even aware of Snowden’s beliefs because he is a shadowy figure and always has been – he’s a deep state guy after all.

Carlson has always been more front-facing.

How do you feel when you read those words?

Is that something you yourself would ever say?

Do you hang with people who talk like that?

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 22:36 utc | 184

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 22:18 utc | 176
==========================================
 
Y’know, Ag, if I were to try to diagnose your problem here, I’d say it’s that you place far too much importance on ideology—you know, left/right, liberal/conservative, and not enough on more useful parameters, things that are more particular to a given political situation.
 
Remember Occupy Wall Street? I’m going to assume that whatever else you may have thought of them, whether or not they were actually effective, you probably agreed with their aims and wished them well. (I’m hoping, anyhow.)
 
Well, during that time, I was watching Thom Hartmann, and he drew a Venn diagram; remember those from high-school math class? Two circles that overlapped slightly. The one on the left was “things Occupy Wall street believes”, and the one on the right was “things the Tea Party believes”.
 
The really interesting part of that diagram was, of course, that sliver in the middle where the two circles overlapped.
 
(Hartmann, BTW, went on to become one of the most rabid supporters of Ukraine after this, so I no longer listen to him. But back in the day he had some important stuff to say.)

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 22:39 utc | 185

If you were working with Snowden on privacy issues and then the conversation turned to issues of the human misery we are discussing and Snowden belched out his extraordinarily intense feelings of deep-seated hatred at the downtrodden…
…you would simply smile and say ‘agree to disagree on this one, Ed, but I love ya otherwise buddy!’
 
Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 22:30 utc | 182
==========================================
 
Yeah, pretty much.
 
Unlike you I try not to let the perfect become the enemy of the good.
 
I don’t subject those I follow to extreme purity tests, because I know that ultimately they’ll fail them.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 22:41 utc | 186

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 22:36 utc | 183
===========================================
 
BTW, don’t even fucking think of subjecting me to your god-damned purity tests, Bub.
Ain’t playing that game.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 22:44 utc | 187

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 7 2026 20:03 utc | 115

Using ‘universal prosperity’ was hyperbolic, but compared to today’s dearth of wealth transfers, the era of the Great Society, when hunger was ended in the US, was as close to universal prosperity as the US will ever achieve. 

Posted by: Keme | Jul 7 2026 23:00 utc | 188

‘Y’know, Ag, if I were to try to diagnose your problem here, I’d say it’s that you place far too much importance on ideology’

I didn’t ask you to diagnose any problems, George.

I’m not interested in diagnoses.

‘far too much importance on ideology’

In fact, I asked you the most straightforward non-ideological questions and evidently you are unable to answer them for some reason.

I am not qualified to diagnose why you are having such trouble with the basics here.

I will try again:

What is your own financial situation?

[not specifics – you know what I mean]

And please answer how you would respond to Snowden if you were ever lucky enough to actually be working with the dude and he vomited out his feelings about those of us who struggle a bit and need some help.

I work but I also receive SSDI and it is necessary right now.

Am I happy to be on this? No, in fact I hide the fact.

We’re not asking for much George.

I’d be dead if Snowden et al had their way.

I mean, his statement was that unemployment is a good thing because it’s an integral part of capitalism!

So, he’s not even attempting to make the ‘pure’ right-libertarian case that we’d have full employment without govt interference.

He’s saying who cares if there aren’t enough jobs – it’s necessary for our IDEOLOGY – and also fuck any safety nets in the face of this capitalist misery because they also go against our IDEOLOGY.

You would simply ‘agree to disagree’ on these matters of life and death?

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 23:02 utc | 189

It seems to me we cannot know how those in politics in the US will behave when current circumstances change, as they will change when forces we do not control create opportunities to behave differently.   I know we have been facing very negative pressures as citizens for a long time.   But we have the example of other nations in recent history that have had setbacks of an extreme nature, such as assassinations of leadership.  It makes me think when I see the results there that what brings people together is adversity, and then we may find we are all very similar in how we react.
 
The video I posted is of a different era, different problems, but also largely similar to what the US faces today.  My point was that it took a strong personality and those around him to make the changes that were calling to be made, and the people were responding.  When President Kennedy was assassinated, why did the US not respond as Iran has done?  Perhaps we were too well off; we didn’t realize what we were losing at that time.
 
I’m sorry, Patroklos, if you didn’t think my contribution was worthwhile.  Nobody does, these days, perhaps because I am out of tune with the general despondency.  But somebody has to be, or there won’t be any change at all.

Posted by: juliania | Jul 7 2026 23:03 utc | 190

Posted by: frithguild | Jul 7 2026 21:33 utc | 158

The backstabbing Tip O’Neill did indeed preside over this. That is why today’s (neo)liberal Democrats celebrate O’Neill’s bipartisanship.   

Posted by: Keme | Jul 7 2026 23:06 utc | 191

I recomend …….
 
Veterans Today.org
 
Take a look. 
 
Tics all the boxes

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 23:07 utc | 192

If you were working with Snowden on privacy issues and then the conversation turned to issues of the human misery we are discussing and Snowden belched out his extraordinarily intense feelings of deep-seated hatred at the downtrodden…
…you would simply smile and say ‘agree to disagree on this one, Ed, but I love ya otherwise buddy!’

‘Yeah, pretty much.’ – George of Zeroth

Thank you for your honesty George.

I wish you the best in all your endeavors.

Posted by: Agonizing Reappraisal | Jul 7 2026 23:08 utc | 193

Here’s something from the past to stimulate that process.  Remember, history doesn’t repeat; but it does rhyme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zk02nzkOlk
 
Posted by: juliania | Jul 7 2026 21:47 utc | 164
================================
 
You’re giving us a FDR stump speech as an example of some kind of virtue? How quaint.
 
He was a politician, remember?
 
I don’t mean to offend you, as I’m sure you’re a very nice person, but dayum, you’re naive …

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 23:08 utc | 194

Watch out george he’s got his hand on your arse now.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 23:09 utc | 195

Posted by: Cynic | Jul 7 2026 21:41 utc | 161

Mises and Freidman’s support for universal basic income (ubi) will be implemented as a bare minimum income to keep the proletariat fed, and maybe housed. To me, a model based on the Speenhamland system.   

Posted by: Keme | Jul 7 2026 23:11 utc | 196

Watch out george he’s got his hand on your arse now.
 
Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7 2026 23:09 utc | 194
================================
 
Chuckle scale +2.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Jul 7 2026 23:11 utc | 197

Posted by: Keme | Jul 7 2026 23:06 utc | 190
 
Tip O’Neill presided over deregulation and cutting taxes? We truly live on different planets. Next you’ll say Communism is democratic. 

Posted by: frithguild | Jul 7 2026 23:19 utc | 198

@ Keme | Jul 7 2026 23:11 utc | 195
 
There will be no universal basic income. The poor will be left to fend for themselves.
 
Unless there’s revolution, peaceful or otherwise, but there’s no sign of that on the horizon — unlike the complete dismantling of the social safety net.

Posted by: malenkov | Jul 7 2026 23:19 utc | 199

Nothing a good old stock market correction and debt default wont cure, overnight.

Posted by: Berkleyboy | Jul 7 2026 23:29 utc | 200

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