Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 26, 2026
War On Iran: – There Isn’t Going To Be Another Ceasefire Deal

AlArabia has published what it claims is the:

Final draft of [the] preliminary US-Iran memorandum of understanding.

I am pretty sure it is not a draft Iran has seen or even in parts committed to.

It is a U.S. wishlist with lots of points that have no tangible outcome, process or date attached to them. It points to undefined “agreed upon arrangements” and “interim understandings”. Without those being written down and followed by the letter the whole thing is useless.

Excerpts:

  • Reopening of the Strait of Hormuz to international navigation, guaranteeing the free passage of commercial vessels and oil tankers without additional transit fees, with the Iranian side committing to take the necessary technical and security measures to ensure the safety of navigation, including the removal of mines and maritime obstacles according to agreed-upon arrangements
  • Enabling the Islamic Republic of Iran to resume the sale and export of oil within the framework of the interim understandings agreed upon by the two parties
  • Consideration will be given to suspending or easing some sanctions related to the Iranian oil sector in phases, in accordance with the implementation of mutual understandings and commitments
  • The necessity of ending military operations and de-escalation on all regional fronts, including the Lebanese arena, will be emphasized, along with working towards establishing a comprehensive regional de-escalation

If that is the real state of the negotiations the whole thing will go nowhere.

Being in week twelve of his two week war on Iran there is no way left for Trump to escape the damage he has caused to the global economy and his own standing.

The best way out for him is for Congress to vote against the continuation of the war. It would give Trump the necessary excuse to recall the troops from the Middle East and to draw the attention elsewhere.

Comments

The Trotskists in the UK have always been an British Secret Service tool (albeit a clever one) came to prominence in the 50’s as a tool against the CP and the USSR after 1956 Hungary revolution and continued into the 60’s and 70’s -anti – vietnam early woke femanism pro abortion pro immigration. Took over the Labour Party through Blair and started the dissolution of the UK state. Even today Starmer, a Pabolist is PM with a strong anti Russia stance and trying to draw US into war against Russis
 

Posted by: Monty | May 27 2026 13:39 utc | 201

more attempted fixing, lol

Posted by: james | May 27 2026 13:49 utc | 202

“What is happening in Lebanon is crazy.

Evacuation of the city of Tire and its suburbs.”

https://t.me/Sohaibpress/144477

Going offline … translate:

https://t.me/s/Sohaibpress

For up to date reporting.

Posted by: Ornot | May 27 2026 13:56 utc | 203

Melaleuca @194: “…fairly odd or strange behavior for, as the “holodomor-genocide” campaigners would say, a “genocidal maniac who wanted to kill Ukrainians”.”
 
Indeed. And if Stalin’s goal was to kill Ukrainians then why did he stop killing Ukrainians when there were still plenty of Ukrainians left to be killed? Why only kill a fraction of them?
 
 
Holodomor myth is nonsense on the face of it.

Posted by: William Gruff | May 27 2026 13:56 utc | 204

The best way out for him is for Congress to vote against the continuation of the war. It would give Trump the necessary excuse to recall the troops from the Middle East and to draw the attention elsewhere.

 
Shame, then, that virtually the entire Congress is beholden to AIPAC and must do its bidding – which doesnt involve anything but the destruction of Iran.
Rock and a hard place never had such a hardworking PR team, spin doctor, or propaganda machine, but something has to break before this shifts. My money is on Trump being removed, either screaming or bleeding or both. 
There is a western host cattle antizionist groundswell happening. and the usual attempts to rename and prosecute it as “antisemetic” are failing. The old guilts are old. The hololocaust is about to leave living memory, and with that its legitimacy leaves too. Look at the laws they are trying to ram through in places like Australia in the face of revelations of IDF abuse of its citizens. That sort of thing is what guillotines used to be made of!
We live in very dangerous times. Trump is as disposable as the rest of us when thousands of years of victimhood based on self declared chosen status is on the table.
Do not undetestimate what tbey will do to preserve tbeir ill gptten influence and power.  It will affect you, simply because you are beneath them. But we also have never before been closer than Hadrian to throwing off those chains. There will be other chains, but these ones are particularly disgusting.

Posted by: eps | May 27 2026 13:57 utc | 205

The Trotskyists in the UK 
 
Who? The stuff people will use to make some crazy unhinged point that doesn’t relate to anything real today. Invoking a bogeyman from a century ago.
 
There are more flat earthers in Ohio than Trotskyists in the entire UK. The term is a historical joke used to avoid actual thought.

Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 27 2026 14:07 utc | 206

Thomas Massie conducting a poll. About three hours left to vote if interested.
 
https://x.com/repthomasmassie/status/2059331995172295098
 
 
Thomas Massie     @RepThomasMassie
 
“What’s the greatest threat to liberty in America?
– Israel
– Iran
– China
– Russia”
 
 

Posted by: GreatLakesObserver | May 27 2026 14:13 utc | 207

more attempted fixing, lol
Posted by: james | May 27 2026 13:49 utc | 204
 
Yes LOL indeed. Ladies and gentlemen here is james’ attempt to fix things
 

it would helpful if you cited your sources, bearing in mind wikipedia is a popular propaganda tool.. cheers.
Posted by: james | May 27 2026 10:26 utc | 148
 
and i hold the same standard for everyone, otherwise i view the commentary as subjective.. if it’s not your problem to fix others viewpoints, why do you both to try with no links to back it up?  you hold to a curious position..  200 
 

Beyond the obvious manipulative bias and illogical fallacies that drive engagement, you’re an open book james. Go try your “tricks” on someone else. Cheers  

Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 27 2026 14:16 utc | 208

Mr Fixit
If it’s not his problem to fix things why does the Muppet in the cheap seats even bother, lol 

Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 27 2026 14:24 utc | 209

BREAKING:
 
🇺🇸🇮🇷 Looks like the US has agreed to leave the Middle East
 
The American fleet of aircraft will be evacuated [from Israel] within 72 hours to bases in Europe, the aircraft will be on standby to return to Ben Gurion Airport if fighting with Iran resumes – Israeli Media N12
 

Source: @Megatron_ron 
 
Presented without comment except that he’s usually relatively accurate. 

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayastha | May 27 2026 14:24 utc | 210

Trotsky’s view and The WEF (Woke) unipole view are identical in that one power should control the world and nation states would disapear

Posted by: Monty | May 27 2026 14:28 utc | 211

Seems US bonds are getting some respite from the next round of TACO fake news while oil is pushed down again.

Posted by: unimperator | May 27 2026 14:28 utc | 212

============================
Chaos by: CallSaul @ 80 who Giyane @82 identifies as a “Mossad shill” This essay argues that the Iran war has entered a genuinely chaotic phase, that the historical parallel most relevant to the present moment is not any single prior conflict but the structural logic of 1914 and 1941 combined, and that the mechanism of catastrophe  — if it comes — will not be deliberate escalation by any rational actor but the emergence of consequences that no party planned, from a system too complex for any of them to fully understand….. 
Posted by: snake | May 27 2026 8:12 utc | 137
============================================
The essay in question posits that the conflict has entered a stage metaphorically analogous to the “Three Body Problem” from a sci-fi novel and Netflix series, where the future physical relationship between the bodies becomes impossible to predict by any math problem working or measurements. I’d say, so what? It hasn’t entered that stage. It was always in it. Most, if not all conflicts are that way. People making decisions and the pressures behind them are impossible to measure or predict.That’s why wise people try to avoid conflicts. I understand that the presence of 3 very active parties, each with their own agendi,  make it even more difficult than if  it were only 2, but it was always treacherous to get out of once it started, and will remain so until it’s over.

Posted by: jonboinAR | May 27 2026 14:34 utc | 213

@212
 
When US forces leave Qatar, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia.  As well as leave Incirlik and dismantle the constellation of large bases in east Turkiye.
 
Pulling out of IDF bases is a logistical necessity l

Posted by: paddy | May 27 2026 14:39 utc | 214

@ 210 unsightfullviews
 
read your comment @ 177..  you initiated it.. mind you, if you live up to your name, we’re all in trouble, lol..

Posted by: james | May 27 2026 14:39 utc | 215

make that @ 174

Posted by: james | May 27 2026 14:40 utc | 216

Why does Netanyahu want to kick the USAF out ? 

Posted by: Exile | May 27 2026 14:47 utc | 217

@Ornot | May 27 2026 11:51 utc | 161
The definition is indeed anglosaxon since Cecil Rhodes defined it thus and the five eyes are somewhat tied to that definition as a natural cultural label. If Race should be used it would be very complicated but the Normans who invaded the area in some cases intermarried with the anglosaxons anyway
 
And the British and americans who created Zionism in its multiple forms including probably five variants of Christian Religion with Zionist Content were in a more cocealed manner also involved with the Jews. Like Lord Palmerston who was busy with that until 1860. He began organising to establish a foothold in 1838 down there after France was seen as trying to employ the Jews in the sevice of the French Empire.Earlier Palmerston was only considering consulates as a way to guard the route to India,
 
But Palmerstons involvement with Zionism may have begun a little later. In 1843 he organised the Jewish Branch of Freemasonry. In 1845 an author in his entourage published British Israelism. The Rothschilds were afraid that Zionism would backtrack the previous advances of the Jews but I am not sure about dates. One date was 1869 with the emancipation of Preussian Jews. 
 
The Rothschilds feared that dual nationality would make them seen as untrustworthy
 
Herzl didnt become a zionist before 1894 with the Dreyfus affaire. The year 1888 with Jack Ripper I interpret as a pivotal year or at least 1890 when Hannah Rothschild died.
 
I know that in 1896 it sounded like the Rothschilds were more accepting to Rhodes project.That year one Rothschild said Rhodes would have to get the americans to join it if there would be any chance.
 
So Zionism came long before the Jews had been coopted.
 
‘Nonjewish Zionism’ by Muhammeden Old-Mey in the journal Arab Geographer 2002 and A similar title by Regina Sharif 1983  provides lots of info.
 
She then ended up in Berlin as some kind of trade related american official. But that was the year when WW3 was close to breaking out and an attentive Sovjet officer fortunately managed to avoid due to him understanding that there were some kind of technical false signals. Something has occurred to me lately after reading the reports of an american engineer from the 1950s who explained that the US routinely used fake radar echos for training but also for testing if they could fool the Soviets.
 
He noted that in connection with the UFO scare back then.
 
False echos were used to create physically impossible trajectories that were sometimes taken to be proof of advanced alien technology.
 
That now struck me concerning the events in 1983 that I just mentioned.
 
And to me it looks like Sharif was punished by being placed in that hotspot where WW3 would have broken out.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | May 27 2026 14:53 utc | 218

Posted by: GreatLakesObserver | May 27 2026 14:13 utc | 209

 
For those of us who aren’t on X, please do tell us the result when the poll is over!

Posted by: Avtonom | May 27 2026 14:58 utc | 219

O/T
 
The three-body problem of Newtonian mechanics does not have an analytical (or closed, meaning perfect) solution that one could write down on a sheet of paper, and which holds for infinite time. However, it being an ordinary differential equation, you can compute it numerically (via a stepwise approximation) for some time in the future, depending on the initial values including their error of measurement and the computing power you have available to track the simulation. The standard Runge-Kutta method is generally well-behaved, which means you can in principle track as close as you want. Hence, orbits become chaotic only for t➙∞ which strictly means that they diverge beyond all bounds for small changes of the initial values at some point in the future.

Posted by: persiflo | May 27 2026 14:59 utc | 220

Several people have noted that the Congress is so beholden to Iz that counting on them to end the war is futile. This is true as long as Iz itself wants the war to continue, of course. If they start getting damaged so much that they need the kinetics to end like June last year, then things will change. That thought had likely 🙂 already occurred to the Iranians … 

Posted by: Caliman | May 27 2026 15:02 utc | 221

@ 210 unsightfullviews read your comment @ 177/174..  you initiated it.. mind you, if you live up to your name, we’re all in trouble, lol..
Posted by: james | May 27 2026 14:39 utc | 217
 
You go read it properly james because you clearly don’t understand plain english here. 
 
Let everyone read it —

it would helpful if you cited your sourcesPosted by: james | May 27 2026 10:26 utc | 149Only me? When that’s the standard standard here, I’ll match it james. In the meantime doing so will not help people who are beyond help while it wastes my own time instead. I did say I won’t waste my time further. In the meantime anyone can find the information online for themselves. Because it’s not my problem to fix what people believe or trust. 😉
Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 27 2026 12:33 utc | 174https://www.moonofalabama.org/2026/05/war-on-iran-there-isnt-going-to-be-another-ceasefire-deal.html/comment-page-2#comment-1361553 

 
Followed by your dyslexic illogical response

@ 177 unsightfullviews i hold the same standard for everyone, otherwise i view the commentary as subjective.. if it’s not your problem to fix others viewpoints, why do you bothto try with no links to back it up?  you hold to a curious position..Posted by: james | May 27 2026 13:32 utc | 200

 
Spoken by one who imagines the world revolves around them and their needs above others. A curious position to take in a response to someone asserting that — when the standard is that everyone cites their sources is the standard here on MoA, I’ll match it!
 
Until then, crickets, because I don’t care how the self-important haughty control-freaks view my commentary. Subjective or not. Knock yourself out pal and consider it all “subjective” then Go Fish! 

Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 27 2026 15:02 utc | 222

@Caliman | May 27 2026 15:02 utc | 223
Yes and the significance of it is that they are beholden to the empire and its hegemony. In theory it ought to be possible for the US to dump Israel and start the empire in some new way but in the eyes of the world and in the perception of the investors I believe the US problems would be too difficult for them to sort out. If anybody has a different opinion I dont mind if you explain how you see the US sorting it out after dumping Israel.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | May 27 2026 15:15 utc | 223

jonboinAR | May 27 2026 14:34 utc | 215
 
With the systemic nature of nation states all operating under the systemic forces of capitalism conflict and wars are inevitable unavoidable and self-generated. Personalities ideologies blocks religions are all irrelevant minor coincidences of little importance. Knowing this will not stop them from happening. It’s all clockwork running on automatic. Anything can happen at any moment. And it’s always stupid and illogical by normal standards of human intelligence. 

Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 27 2026 15:16 utc | 224

petergrfstrm | May 27 2026 15:15 utc | 225
 
The US is systemically unable to dump Israel. Cannot be done. The internal systems within the US preclude this from happening. The system determines how people fulfilling their roles must act. They have no other choice at every point in the chain. I am unable to explain this, it’s too complex. Currently the system demands that the Trump administration generate chaos and fear. They’re doing a great job of that. 

Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 27 2026 15:22 utc | 225

This is the War on Iran thread, correct?
 
Below is the current Summary on Iran by ZH
 

Summary

  • White House rejects ‘complete fabrication’ of Iranian TV reporting on MOU and draft deal status.

  • IRGC keeping up the rhetoric: warns that Iran would “turn the area from Chabahar to Mahshahr into a graveyard for aggressors” if the ceasefire collapses.

  • CENTCOM: “Clearly the Iranians are trying to hedge their bets here and put more pressure on the US.”

  • Iranian president: “The main battleground today is the economic war.

  • Tabriz International Airport in northwestern Iran– which sustained heavy damage from airstrikes during the peak of the aerial bombings – is officially operational again, bringing restored airports to 20 reopened.

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 27 2026 15:22 utc | 226

Was the 2003 invasion of Iraq stupid and illogical by normal standards of human intelligence? Yes. 
 
Was the USA and Nato’s buildup of the Ukraine military from 2014 to 500K active troops fully armed, then deploying them moving to attack the Donbass resistance forces despite warnings by Russia in February 2022 stupid and illogical by normal standards of human intelligence? Yes.  
 
They did it anyway. And Israel and the USA attacked Iran this year. Notice the pattern? 

Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 27 2026 15:28 utc | 227

Drop Site News: ‘Israel Intensifies Attacks’
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk81ctKtJ20
 
“Israel intensifies attacks in Lebanon and Gaza; Trump’s Board of Peace rewrites Gaza ‘ceasefire’ deal.”
 
 
Mahmood OD: ‘Controlling the President’
 
https://www.youtube.com/@Mahmood_OD
 
“The pressure leading Trump to another war with Iran.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | May 27 2026 15:30 utc | 228

Posted by: persiflo | May 27 2026 14:59 utc | 222
 
Of course the literal mathematical take has solutionwhich depend on initial conditions but the analogy holds as far as psychology and the geostrategic/political actions taken by multiple independent and thus as a group increasingly difficult to predict bodies. Granted there are binding realities but no ‘model’ exists that can make accurate predictions, let alone talking heads capable of processing all the variables into a digestible and realistic probable outcome aside from annihilation. 🤣🤞

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 27 2026 15:34 utc | 229

MEMO: Mouin Rabbani: ‘Gaza Apocalypse’
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZM4tUfFIjM
 
“US ‘suicidal empathy’ for Israel as Gaza faces apocalypse.”
 
Free Palestine – Death to USrael – Resist Don’t Collaborate!

Posted by: John Gilberts | May 27 2026 15:41 utc | 230

petergrfstrm | May 27 2026 15:15 utc | 225
They are not “beholden to empire and hegemony” for the sake of empire and hegemony … they like to use empire and hegemony to make oodles of $$$. The US, like the UK before it, is an offshore commercial empire … what it is beholden to is dollars, not imperial glory, a concept of folk, or any other typical imperial plan. This is why it doesn’t mind “losing” wars … the aim is elsewhere. 
So, yes, they implanted Iz in the local area to divide and conquer and control $$$ flows. At the same time, however, and possibly unexpectedly, there are actually parts of the people who matter who have a genuine folk-relationship with the entity created and these people are vested in continuing to “secure the realm.” These people have, like any lobby, built influence in the oligarchy and make it impossible to cut and run, even if the system wants to.
 
That’s what I meant by saying that the key to peace in the ME is to force Iz to stand down. that will open up the space for a more rational calculation of $$$ benefits for the commercial empire. 

Posted by: Caliman | May 27 2026 15:43 utc | 231

For those of us who aren’t on X, please do tell us the result when the poll is over!
 
Posted by: Avtonom | May 27 2026 14:58 utc | 221

 
Since Massie fanboys are most of his followers, Israel won by a landslide – 86.3% 
 

Posted by: Fool Me Twice | May 27 2026 15:48 utc | 232

@Arch Bungle | May 27 2026 2:50 utc | 119But Chinese engineers involved have been shot along the area intended for Belt and Road. Maybe you are right that the US will fail but I dont see clear evidence for that yet.
 
Posted by: petergrfstrm | May 27 2026 6:05 utc | 128
 
 
That’s an entirely different matter.
 
Petty terrorist attacks will have no effect on China, or the BRI.
 
The evidence of US failure is all around us.
 
They’re failing from the Persian Gulf, to Kabul to the South China Sea …
 
None so blind as those who refuse to see ….
 
 
 

Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 27 2026 15:55 utc | 233

That’s what I meant by saying that the key to peace in the ME is to force Iz to stand down.
Posted by: Caliman | May 27 2026 15:43 utc | 233
I’ve written this many times before. It applies to the U.S. and Israel, as well as to Europe. As long as those responsible don’t have to fear that they will suffer massive damage “at home”, there will be no peace.

Posted by: smartfox | May 27 2026 15:58 utc | 234

FAIL BIGLY

The best way out for him is for Congress to vote against the continuation of the war. It would give Trump the necessary excuse to recall the troops from the Middle East and to draw the attention elsewhere.
 
Posted by b on May 26, 2026 at 17:11 UTC | Permalink

The Democrats want Trump to FAIL BIGLY in Iran. They will never vote against the continuation of the war in Congress. Trumps failure will give them big wins in November elections.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 27 2026 15:59 utc | 235

Since Massie fanboys are most of his followers, Israel won by a landslide – 86.3%
Posted by: Fool Me Twice | May 27 2026 15:48 utc | 234
 
 
Interesting. When I viewed the link just now it still says one hour left to vote.
 
Even though the results are certainly going to be madly skewed, they are still going to get on peoples’ radar who probably would not have otherwise noticed. Keep pushing that rock up the hill…

Posted by: GreatLakesObserver | May 27 2026 16:00 utc | 236

Wednesday ‘snapshots’ from A. Crooke – focus on UAE and Lebanon
 
(31) As their hegemony project falters, Israel-US are fanning mini wars

Posted by: Don Firineach | May 27 2026 16:03 utc | 237

@ 203
The only kernel of truth in this is that Starmer was a former Militant member, and Militant was informed by Trotskyism. But then again, Corbyn also had his dalliances with Militant Trots, as has virtually everyone on the left in western countries. Libertarian socialism as a movement (not anarchism, but the Castoriadis strain) came through a revaluation of Trotsky’s critique of the Soviet bureaucracy, and became one of the largest sources of criticism of Trotskyism. Castoriadis, Chris Pallis, and other libsoc figures, as far as I know, never had any relationship to intelligence agencies. Pallis’s Solidarity UK was said to be like a hedgehog: small, and didn’t like being messed with. Solidarity UK was also class-first, and fell apart, in part, because of the question of feminism in its ranks: most of the Solidaristas opposed it and identity politics in general, resulting in them losing ground as liberal groups made those issues more salient (and as class struggle itself had reached a nadir as the productive economy of the UK gave way to services, especially finance). Closest Brit Trot-sympathizer, but not actually a Trot himself, who did have intelligence connections would be George Orwell, who was basically a Red Tory in spirit.
 
The Trotsky-phobia is a hallmark of unrepentant Stalinists, who believe that the coerced confessions of the Great Purges were legitimate, and of Larouchites, who have far deeper ties to western intelligence agencies, especially the FBI, and who played a key role in COINTELPRO disruption of the organized left in North America. Nowadays the former have mostly given way to the latter.
 
Immigration can be used as a weapon of class struggle by the capitalist class, but the way the workers’ movement responds to it can also play into the capitalists’ hands. For example, taking a hard-line stance against immigration is often exactly what the capitalists want. It creates a racial division in the workers’ movement by drumming up white chauvinism. It was what they wanted when Gompers pushed for Chinese exclusion, rather than making the effort of organizing (and thereby Americanizing) Chinese workers in the western US. Capitalists are fine with saying “don’t let Mexicans come work here” because they can always move their capital to Mexico and accrue more surplus value from their exploitation in sweatshops, where the official unions are even more worthless and serve as bureaucratic mediators of the class struggle, at least as long as there’s enough of a “middle class” or labor aristocracy to absorb the flow of cheap goods from abroad and realize that surplus value. What needs to be remembered, always, is that immigrant workers are workers, and their class interests align with the workers’ movement, far moreso than the demagogues and white-skin chauvinists who think the fix for higher wages (also, please remember, the ultimate demand of the workers’ movement is the abolition of the wage system, not higher wages) is to fuck one part of the workers’ movement over for the benefit of another, robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Posted by: fnord | May 27 2026 16:27 utc | 238

As meaningless as Massie’s twitter poll is, he’s right to hammer home on this. Israel does far more to directly intervene in US politics than any other country on Earth, and the crackdowns on student-led anti-genocide protests in the US were carried out, if not at the behest of the Israeli government, then by the loyalty of our own government to Israeli interests. Our governments also tolerated roaming gangs of Kahanists who violently assaulted anti-genocide protesters, and “our” media happily went along with smearing anti-genocide protesters as “anti-Semites” for having the gall to notice that the self-declared Jewish ethno-state is carrying out a genocidal campaign against Palestinians in Gaza. Iran could never wield our own power against us like that, nor could China.

Posted by: fnord | May 27 2026 16:34 utc | 239

@Caliman | May 27 2026 15:43 utc | 233
It is convenient for the empire  that Iz DONT stand down so people may continue imagining things about who makes the decisions. By the empire I mean its commercial interests which will be gone if the Multipolar world rises more definitely and Chinas infrastructure Belt and Road are not countered.
About what you say about those who care about Iz. Yes they matter but that is also because there are investments in Israel that they dont want to lose and second the people if they have to emigrate constitute lots of cost and problems. So it isnt just that some billionaires happen to care. There are longterm commitments having economic inertia. Of course Iz could be less aggressive an accept less but that would mean an imperial backstep. It would underwrite weakness. And it is not a coincidense that it was the US who were zionised before the Jews.
 
The debate here on Moa to an extent is a reflection of the biased account that the american altmedia stars are spreading. Most here  ignores or like Archbungle belittles the threat posed by the US proxies along the Belt and Road. China would probably have completely crushed them if they could but they may expect that the west would then increase their pressure so China would have a bigger battle to deal with, And they may think it is better to await the further weakening of the west?
 
Chinas Belt and Road is now much less ambitious than it was earlier. Therefore though I sypathise with China I am not sure where this is heading.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | May 27 2026 16:41 utc | 240

Off topic (or, then again, maybe not) … much of what’s happening in the world – or will happen to the world in the future – hinges on what lies are perceived as the truth by enough of the mass population.
 
I don’t think the “preposterous” claim that the Iran Regime slaughtered 42,000 to “maybe”  60,000 of its own citizens in a period of 2 to 30 days has received enough scrutiny.
 
Those death figures have been repeated multiple times by President Trump.  If Iran did kill 60,000 of its own citizens in a month of so, this figure would exceed the total KIA figure of America in 10 years of the Vietnam War. Still, 85 percent of MAGA believes these figures and think they justify America “liberating” Iran … by bombing their country back to the Stone Ages.
 
 
https://billricejr.substack.com/p/im-calling-bs-on-the-claim-iran-murdered

Posted by: GMST | May 27 2026 16:46 utc | 241

how to start. I was born in 1949 ,lightly educated,but love to read everything,got a big start when a uncle died and had over 700 sci-fi books from 1890 to 1940 at which point he went to war, he was a fireman before the war and after. looking over world events as the centuries have gone by,t think i have noticed a trend of the people that lord over us seeing us wanting, more rights and more control of those rights.their solution was war,the last 5 or so major wars were started in part to put a clamp on those rights killing a large amount of those wanting these rights, the fun thing was the people demanded more rights after each war and then they started to chip away ate our rights, i believe that during the 50’s and 60’s ,when i grew up the world as a whole had more rights than at any other time in history. they haves been destroying these rights ever since to the point where we have little left. are we going to get our eights back ,before or after the next world war.my time is mostly gone, this is your time ,what are you going to do about it, any form of government where the people do not pay attention is going to take your rights and get you to fight with each other colour ,religion, male, female,whatever they can find they will use. good luck with your lives.

Posted by: darkhorse 241 | May 27 2026 16:52 utc | 242

“Was the 2003 invasion of Iraq stupid and illogical by normal standards of human intelligence? Yes.  Was the USA and Nato’s buildup of the Ukraine military from 2014 to 500K active troops fully armed, then deploying them moving to attack the Donbass resistance forces despite warnings by Russia in February 2022 stupid and illogical by normal standards of human intelligence? Yes.   They did it anyway. And Israel and the USA attacked Iran this year. Notice the pattern? 
Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 27 2026 15:28 utc | 229
 
Well, sure. If you mull it over in the artificial vacuum created by technology, consolidation and trolls of all stripes.
Devoid of mentioning the oil prophets at the bottom of the wells.
 
insensate.
works a charm.

Posted by: Not Ewe | May 27 2026 16:59 utc | 243

240 Trot in the UK
The Trot Sects in the 50’s and  60’s International Socialists (neither Washington nor Moscow), IMG , Militant (Enterism into the Labour Party) and others had a great influence on that generation and the development of Woke, starting with femanism and ending with trans rights. These form the main policies of left parties today. The onset of mass imigration happenned in parallel with UK deindustrialisation which neither Labour or Tories fought against. 
Starmers’ legal chambers was a hot bed of 4th International politics. Blair has admited he was a trot and shared a room with Dave Nellist (Militant MP) in Parliament

Posted by: Monty | May 27 2026 17:01 utc | 244

Trump’s ‘Board of Peace’ Has ‘Zero Dollars’ Despite $17 Billion in Pledges: Report
 
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/37917
 
“Washington is considering the seizure of Palestinian tax revenues withheld by Israel to compensate for the funding shortfall…”
 
There is no bottom to American evil.

Posted by: John Gilberts | May 27 2026 17:03 utc | 245

32 million white Russians were genocided by the Bolsheviks
Posted by: snake | May 27 2026 8:12 utc | 137
=================================
 
BULLSHIT!
 
You’re reciting the usual anti-Bolshevik horseshit that’s been circulating now for more than a century.
They’re trying to convince us that the casualties of the Civil War, in which many thousands of “White Russians” were killed, was some kind of genocide, and lay it at L.D. Trotsky’s doorstep.
 
It wasn’t, and he’s not responsible.
 
Not that I ever expect to win this argument here. Yes, I’ll uncloak long enough to declare that I’m a Trotskyite, depending on which side of the bed I get up on in the morning. In any case, I think he is still being unfairly maligned.
 
But this is like the pro/anti-Brian Berletic issue here: apparently the battle lines are drawn, with swords and lances out, and neither side here is ever gonna budge from their position.
 
So much for free and open exchange of ideas here …

Posted by: George the Zeroth | May 27 2026 17:10 utc | 246

FAIL BIGLY

The best way out for him is for Congress to vote against the continuation of the war. It would give Trump the necessary excuse to recall the troops from the Middle East and to draw the attention elsewhere. Posted by b on May 26, 2026 at 17:11 UTC | Permalink

The Democrats want Trump to FAIL BIGLY in Iran. They will never vote against the continuation of the war in Congress. Trumps failure will give them big wins in November elections.
 
Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 27 2026 15:59 utc | 237
=====================================
 
Your analysis makes sense to me. I endorse it.
Not to mention that the Democrats have spines of Jell-O when it comes to anything having to do with war …

Posted by: George the Zeroth | May 27 2026 17:15 utc | 247

Posted by: snake | May 27 2026 8:12 utc | 137—
Posted by: George the Zeroth | May 27 2026 17:10 utc | 249
Give it a rest—it’s a bot. It’s posted the same nonsense over and over again just today.

Posted by: smartfox | May 27 2026 17:17 utc | 248

We all know that neither the US or Israel will honestly commit to any real peace agreement.  If in doubt, ask any random Native American if the government keeps its agreements.
Could Trump go with an agreement to open Hormuz and nothing more, in effect?  He can’t control Israel.  He can keep sanctions and thefts from Iran while demanding his nuclear dust……and stalemate it.

Posted by: Eighthman | May 27 2026 17:17 utc | 249

@ 246
I’d prefer it if Starmer and Blair were still Trots. You mention the transgender issue but apparently have forgotten that these figures are some of the most virulent transphobes in British politics. Now, I’m judging by an American standard, where much more of us are open to and tolerant of transgender existence (the opposition here comes from the church, which seeks to control people’s minds and bodies, and which views bodily autonomy (abortion, cross-sex hormone therapy and sex change operations) as affronts to their imaginary friend in the sky). Starmer has done enormous harm to trans people in the UK to appease a more secular type of reactionary Briton, which is weird looking from across the pond. It’s very odd that European transphobia (and homophobia, in many cases) doesn’t come in a religious garb, but usually a pseudo-scientific one, a kind of nightmare for Feyerabend where a politicized “science” (grade school oversimplifications of it, at least) and the state join forces to break people’s freedom of thought and expression.
 
Anyway, we have a word for people like Starmer and Blair: renegades. Blaming Trotsky for Starmer is like blaming Marx for Bernstein or Kautsky. It’s also worth mentioning that some of the loudest “anti-woke” (perhaps, “asleep”?) voices in Angloid politics are often Trotskyists, like the WSWS’s party, which even went so far against the grain of liberal feminism to take a stand against “Me Too” and stand up for disgraced zionist pedophile Kevin Spacey. “Anti-woke”/asleep politics is also firmly in the nexus of political zionism; it was the “woke” college students who took a stand against zionist genocide and Jewish supremacy in occupied Palestine, and it is zionist forces in US/UK politics who harp the most on the perils of “woke”.
 
As Alex Jones used to say, “wake up, sheeple!”

Posted by: fnord | May 27 2026 17:19 utc | 250

I always thought the reviled chant, “Death to America!” repeated over and over by Iranians was figurative in that I don’t think the chanters wanted random American citizens to die; they just want the government of America to die or, somehow, be defeated.
 
And one can actually understand the sentiment.
 
For example, it was the American government which deposed Iran’s democratically-elected leader in a CIA-orchestrated coup in the 1950s. Also, the American government supported Saddam Hussein and Iraq in an 8-year war with Iran that killed 500,000 Iranian citizens (many of whom were gassed in battle with chemical weapons the American government helped Saddam get).
 
For the last 47 years – after Iran took about 60 embassy members hostage (btw, none of whom were killed) – Iranian citizens have faced non-stop and draconian economic sanctions – orchestrated by the U.S. government. These sanctions caused great misery in this country and must have produced many deaths.
 
Recently, America and Israel murdered Iran’s Supreme Leader (and half his family) and murdered 165 elementary school children and 20 teachers with a double-tap missile attack.
 
So, it seems to me, Iranians might have a few understandable reasons for chanting such harsh words.
 
Today, it occurs to me that if the American government escalates in this war – and does try to bomb Iran back to the Stone Ages – Iran will retaliate with strikes that will very likely send the world – and America – into a Great Depression and perhaps create hyper inflation.
 
Such hardships often result in global uprisings and do produce famine and despair. So, when Iran chants “death to America!” – come latter 2026 – just in time for America’s 250th birthday – Iran might actually produce many (literal) deaths in America.

Posted by: GMST | May 27 2026 17:32 utc | 251

… I forgot (like many people)  that America’s military, a Naval ship, shot down an Iranian commercial aircraft jet decades ago. Oops. But no apology or reparations were forthcoming.

Posted by: GMST | May 27 2026 17:38 utc | 252

The UAE is Slipping Close To Direct War With Iran
 
https://www.rt.com/news/640645-uae-us-israel-iran-war/
 
“…UAE-Israel ties after the Abraham Accords are no longer limited to diplomacy, trade and technology. Under war conditions, those ties acquire direct military-strategic significance.”
 
 
Why Russia & UAE Are  A Marriage Made in Heaven (Feb1)
 
https://www.rt.com/news/631804-russia-uae-partnership-visit/
 
“Observers kept returning to two names, Igor Kostyukov and Kirill Dmitriev, whose presence hinted at a second track running below the ceremonial surface.
 
Russia as a permanent member of the UN Security Council and as a power with deep experience in regional bargaining, offers precisely the kind of geopolitical weight that can be useful when regional equations shift unexpectedly. 
 
The UAE’s increasingly open and confident relationship to Israel adds another dimension to this calculus…”
 
BRICS member UAE is also a ‘strategic partner’  of Russia.

Posted by: John Gilberts | May 27 2026 17:52 utc | 253

… I forgot (like many people)  that America’s military, a Naval ship, shot down an Iranian commercial aircraft jet decades ago. Oops. But no apology or reparations were forthcoming.
Posted by: GMST | May 27 2026 17:38 utc | 256 
 
The captain of the USS Vincennes, William C. Rogers III, was later awarded the Legion of Merit, one of the highest military decorations in the United States, for his service
 
 

Posted by: arby | May 27 2026 18:08 utc | 254

make that @ 174
 
Posted by: james | May 27 2026 14:40 utc | 218
 
Dont waste your time even engaging with it.
Its reason for being here appears highly dubious at best.
 
Peace

Posted by: Tannenhouser | May 27 2026 18:24 utc | 255

Posted by: arby | May 27 2026 18:08 utc | 258
 
We won’t mention the possible/probable link to PanAm explosion over Scotland.

Posted by: Don Firineach | May 27 2026 18:24 utc | 256

@ 259 tannenhouser
 
thanks.. i picked that up before i started in with them..

Posted by: james | May 27 2026 18:39 utc | 257

@ 258 arby
 
thanks arby.  that is an especially interesting historical detail given where we are here today with usa/israel and friends war on iran at present..

Posted by: james | May 27 2026 18:41 utc | 258

Harsch words should not be translated litteraly; in my understanding, « death to » means « down », in French « A bas ».
other point, the famous captives from US embassies were mostly spies listening to all telecom conversations in order to organize a counterrevolution. Indeed a US firm had installed the national telecom network with a duplicate and secret control system in the embassy. Did the US government use the world hostage ? 

Posted by: Dany | May 27 2026 19:28 utc | 259

What do you expect from the morons US negotiators? 

Posted by: Virgile | May 27 2026 20:46 utc | 260

fnord at 254
Thank you for patiently fielding the persistent idiocy of the Trotsky blamers, eagerly reenacting the lying that was part of the purges, one of the most destructive episodes in the history of the left.  Analytically disoriented assholes.

Posted by: dadooronron | May 27 2026 21:46 utc | 261

Might be interesting to some.
 
Pakistan
 
Pakistan opens Iran trade corridor beyond Washington’s control
 
Economic chokehold with Martin Wolf, Financial Times.
First Came the War, Then the Blockade, Now the Shortages; Epic Fury Has Become Epic Folly

Posted by: Suresh | May 27 2026 22:47 utc | 262

George the Zeroth @271: “Hmm, that post did seem to be a bit over the top, come to think of it …”
 
The Trotsky-phobes are so over the top that outrageous satire about the man sounds like it could legitimately be what they argue. I wonder if they read about Trotsky’s Catholic genocide in Mexico and thought “I never knew about that! The Illuminati must have suppressed all knowledge of it!”

Posted by: William Gruff | May 27 2026 23:44 utc | 263

Posted by: William Gruff | May 27 2026 23:44 utc | 274
=======================================
 
You’re all right, man.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | May 27 2026 23:49 utc | 264

Meta-request (here’s looking at you, @unsightfulviews):
 
When you include a message # in your post as part of a quote, could you please, please include the link to that message that B so thoughtfully provides us with? Otherwise it’s not so easy to jump to that post. With the link, you can click on it and presto! you’re at that message.
 
I mean, it’s right there, so why not just copy and paste it? (I’m assuming it works on other devices than desktops; not sure about phones, tablets, etc.)
 
Thank you for your attention to this matter. Now back to our irregularly scheduled programming.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | May 28 2026 0:26 utc | 265

Iran Russia Ukraine Venezuela and the US operations as reported on Dugin’s Geopolitika 

Venezuela surrenders its sovereignty piece by piece — oil licenses, gold reserves, uranium, and now Alex Saab. What’s left of Bolivarian independence when Washington calls every shot?

Originally published on Fondsk.ru by Leonid Savin
 

read the beginning too, its informative well the US are doing.
 

[…] According to the US indictment, starting in October 2015, the businessman conspired with accomplices to bribe Venezuelan officials and gain control over CLAP contracts for food imports. But rather than fulfilling the contracts, the participants used shell companies, falsified invoices, and other documents to redirect hundreds of millions of dollars intended for food purchases.
 
If Nicolás Maduro is accused by the White House of creating and running a drug cartel that doesn’t exist, pinning charges of corruption and money laundering on Alex Saab will be considerably easier — especially given that he genuinely did help circumvent US sanctions.
 
Saab operated effectively across multiple jurisdictions and also developed a scheme to exchange Venezuelan gold through Turkey, the United Arab Emirates, and Iran in return for other assets. On top of that, he served as a channel for negotiations with Western companies — including Chevron and JP Morgan — that were, in practice, continuing to operate in Venezuela.
 
That is precisely why, after his release and return to the country, Nicolás Maduro appointed him Minister of Industry in October 2024. He was removed from the post just two weeks after the US operation on January 3, 2026, and Saab had already predicted at that point that he would be betrayed and deported. In February, reports emerged of his arrest by Venezuelan security services, though the authorities tried to suppress this information.
 
Diego Herchoren and Ayse Goriyak argue that Saab’s extradition carries at least six political consequences for Venezuela.
 
First, the fact that “new authorities” were able to make the decision to hand over such a prominent figure from Maduro’s government means that Maduro is no longer running the country. As a result, all of Venezuela’s leadership rhetoric about protecting Maduro is nothing but an information smokescreen.
 
Second, the extradition marks the beginning of a systematic purge of the old guard. Those who helped circumvent sanctions and were once considered heroes will now be treated as criminals.
 
Third, a climate of terror has been established within Venezuela’s leadership. The extradition functions as a disciplinary mechanism: no senior Chavista official can feel safe, since the new puppet rulers can hand them over to US justice at any time.
 
Fourth, the rules of the geopolitical game have changed. Venezuela has ceased to be a player and has become an object of manipulation by its northern neighbor.
 
Fifth, subordination to specific US financial interests. The extradition decision does not respond to domestic judicial criteria but rather to the rivalry between investment funds such as Amber Energy and JP Morgan. Venezuelan policy has thus been subordinated to factions of American financial capital. (These same authors note that Venezuela is currently the battleground between two US interest groups: on one side, JP Morgan operating through Dalinar Energy; on the other, Paul Singer — a close donor to Donald Trump — operating through Amber Energy.)
 
Sixth, the weakening of ties with Russia and Iran, in line with the new US foreign policy direction.
 
As we can see, Venezuela’s own leadership plays no role in decision-making. Delcy Rodríguez is currently acting as a “controlled interim leader” — a role designated for her by Harry Sargeant III, whose company has operated in Venezuela since the 1980s and has the blessing of Donald Trump.
 
And once the United States gets everything it needs and builds a new functioning structure serving its interests, Rodríguez may very well end up in the dock herself — as might Diosdado Cabello, who still faces unresolved drug trafficking charges and is accused by the domestic opposition of ordering unlawful arrests and torture that led to the deaths of political prisoners. For now, they are left playing the role of go-betweens — caught between the hammer of US foreign policy and the anvil of their own population’s growing discontent. 
 
https://www.geopolitika.ru/en/article/de-sovereignization-venezuela-alex-saab-has-been-handed-over-americans

Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 28 2026 1:38 utc | 266

Didn’t know that. I thought the limit on links was only for external ones, not links to messages here. Thanks.
Posted by: George the Zeroth | May 28 2026 0:43 utc | 281
 
And yeah, you are welcome George. Its what I do. Share “helpful” facts. And don’t some get jealous and so bent out of shape about that.
 
hi james.. lol 

Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 28 2026 2:02 utc | 267

Now the obvious problem becomes: What is a facetious oxymoron?
 
hello james.. lol

Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 28 2026 2:08 utc | 268

Now the obvious problem becomes: What is a facetious oxymoron? Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 28 2026 2:08 utc | 291
=======================================
 
Dunno.
However, I loves that the term “oxymoron” is itself … an oxymoron!
 
(“sharp”-“dull”)

Posted by: George the Zeroth | May 28 2026 2:23 utc | 269

The only thing I hate around here is this stupid composition window!
 
Wonder if B will ever get a round tuit to fixing it …

Posted by: George the Zeroth | May 28 2026 2:24 utc | 270

I hope this Pope won’t be too terribly disappointed when he realizes — as his most recent predecessors ought to have realized — just how few Catholics pay much attention to papal encyclicals.
 
Posted by: malenkov | May 27 2026 11:52 utc | 163

Guess he’s going for the trickle-down effect…

Posted by: frito | May 28 2026 2:46 utc | 271

I hope this Pope won’t be too terribly disappointed when he realizes — as his most recent predecessors ought to have realized — just how few Catholics pay much attention to papal encyclicals.
 
Posted by: malenkov | May 27 2026 11:52 utc | 163

Guess he’s going for the trickle-down effect…

Posted by: frito | May 28 2026 2:48 utc | 272

“That is the obvious purpose of Pope Leo XIV ‘warning’ that AI fuels modern warfare in first theological document — “We cannot consider AI to be morally neutral”
 See? By recognising it as an entity he is giving a credence it does not have!
 Fortunately for most of us, the Chinese blew their business models out of the water by giving away better AI that can run on local devices instead of the new vatican of techbro bishops of sillycone valley. 
 
Posted by: DunGroanin | May 27 2026 12:18 utc | 168

They want to fight it, but they could not even fight birth control. At least he’s calling it straight.
 
The trouble with the tech bros is they are partially AI themselves with the way their brains are structured. The old Henry Ford assembly lines and fascist making the trains run on time.
 
On ZH today they said the Chinese are flooding the market with DRAM and some other acronym. 

Posted by: frito | May 28 2026 3:00 utc | 273

 295  professor, you got it.
 
my beloved keeper.. he’s syrupy.. smarmy.. and suckupiti.. and dead wrong.. lol 

Posted by: unsightfulviews | May 28 2026 3:57 utc | 274

Of course there will not be a deal. It’s all charades by the US. They don’t want anything short of total collapse of Iran and complete control of global energy resources. That is what US is working towards and isn’t going to give up. Let’s stop pretending there is any other motive. Fighting micro wars against Iran and Russia. It will continue as long as the currency allows.

Posted by: Unsafe Data | May 28 2026 4:13 utc | 275

Posted by: Exile | May 27 2026 14:47 utc | 219
“Why does Netanyahu want to kick the USAF out ”
 
I have suspected for some time that the occupation would have to appear to be at serious risk of losing to get US & EU boots on the ground. They seem to be trying to make it happen.
 
It also provides them with the self-justification for launching nuclear weapons, which I suspect will be the eventual and unfortunate outcome.
 

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | May 28 2026 6:09 utc | 276

Ctd…
eventual outcome…should plan A fail.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | May 28 2026 6:10 utc | 277

The standard Runge-Kutta method is generally well-behaved
 
Posted by: persiflo | May 27 2026 14:59 utc | 221
 

 
My brain hurts.
 

Posted by: too scents | May 28 2026 6:53 utc | 278

Modern day “cease fire”s  are a thing of wonder.  How did the term become so utterly useless? 
 
Next thing, “winning” and “losing” will have to redefined too.
 
The house always wins.  Enjoy your stay.
 

Posted by: too scents | May 28 2026 7:01 utc | 279

Zionist decision-making centers need to be eliminated along with their occupants
Posted by: karlof1 | May 26 2026 18:31 utc | 18
I’m sorry, Karl, but that sounds like a… Zionist solution and I have to say I’m surprised to see your name on it.

Posted by: Gene Poole | May 28 2026 10:49 utc | 280

I don’t think Trump has the stones to make a move on Cuba while he’s tied up in the Middle East. Cuba is going to be another embarrassment, just like Venezuela, and I’m pretty sure the list of international (and domestic) laws he would be breaking hasn’t finished being compiled. 
HOWEVER, given that the Iran debacle has proved to be so damaging he may just be that desperate to go after tiny Cuba in order to put a check in the W column for a change (even though the entire world will see it for what it is). 
ON THE OTHER HAND… Cuba just might pull a fast one and make deals with China and Russia in the meantime. A few shiploads of missiles and drones dropped off and placed and we’re right back to the Iran situation.
 

Posted by: John S | May 28 2026 18:34 utc | 281

DW: Profs Richard Wolff & Michael Hudson: ‘Iran Won’
 
https://www.youtube.com/@dialogueworks01/streams
 
“Iran won. The Empire lost. Forever.”
 
Hope so.

Posted by: John Gilberts | May 28 2026 18:47 utc | 282

Posted by: John Gilberts | May 28 2026 18:47 utc | 282
=======================================
 
John, just one small question: why don’t you link to the actual video instead of the channel?
I went there looking for this specific video but couldn’t find it.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | May 29 2026 3:52 utc | 283

Easier to post the channel so that people can return to it. Your video is first in the second row. 

Posted by: John Gilberts | May 29 2026 4:05 utc | 284

“and a host of other authoritative sources who get that Russian invasion of Ukraine wrong”
One wonders if this is deliberately so

Posted by: ThorvidA | May 29 2026 21:53 utc | 285

Art. 51 has been a pawn the flaw ..lies within its structure.<= here is the structure.. https://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1944/441007a.htmlsuggest to read chapter 1. Purposes.. and Chapter 2. Principles.The purposes of the Organization should be:
1. To maintain international peace and security; and to that end to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace and the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means adjustment or settlement of international disputes which may lead to a breach of the peace;
2. To develop friendly relations among nations and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
3. To achieve international cooperation in the solution of international economic, social and other humanitarian problems; and
4. To afford a center for harmonizing the actions of nations in the achievement of these common ends.
CHAPTER II. PRINCIPLESIn pursuit of the purposes mentioned in Chapter I the Organization and its members should act in accordance with the following principles:
1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all peace-loving states.
2. All members of the Organization undertake, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership in the Organization, to fulfill the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the Charter.
3. All members of the Organization shall settle their disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security are not endangered.
[1] Including text of provision relative to voting procedure in the Security Council (Chap. VI, sec. C) as agreed upon at the Crimea Conference and announced by the Secretary of State on Mar. 5, 1945.Page 37
4. All members of the Organization shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the Organization.
5. All members of the Organization shall give every assistance to the Organization in any action undertaken by it in accordance with the provisions of the Charter.
6. All members of the Organization shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which preventive or enforcement action is being undertaken by the Organization.
The Organization should ensure that states not members of the Organization act in accordance with these principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
<= under principles 1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all peace-loving states.ok, what is sovereign equality..its not defined.. but seems to me it has been interpretedto mean if you are not like me then you are not equal.. ?
WRT Russia’s invasion into Ukraine.. what is the scope of the principle of socereign equality of a Peace loving state? Does sovereignity extend to protecting and asserting the invaders’ interest beyound the borders of its otherwise soverign peaceloving state?
Posted by: john | May 29 2026 20:04 utc | 56The problems with EO and b’s arguments, of course, are that the facts remain that (1) the Ukraine didn’t, or better put hadn’t yet invaded the Donbas (woulda coulda doesn’t count … see 2); (2) Ukraine was moving troops and materiel inside its own internationally recognized territory; and (3) the Donbas was still a part of Ukraine by all international standards<=no, the problem is in the UN document.. it does not define how to draw the line between conflicting soverign interest..are Russian speaking people in Ukraine part of Russia’s sovereign interest. If so Russia was defending its interest in Ukraine, and that is allowed.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | May 29 2026 20:08 utc | 58the point EO makes is correct and worth repeating given the level of Imperialist propaganda re: Russia. <=depends on the definition of the principle of the sovereign equality of all peace-loving states.what the hell is sovereign equality.. ? https://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1944/441007a.html
China has hundrends of thousands of people in places all over the world. Ita nation state decided to harrass and selectively murder these people, whochina be within its defensive rights to invade the offending nations toprotect its Chinese people ..? I think so.
sovereign rights trumps territorial integrity..
by: Granite | May 29 2026 20:11 utc | 59your link is useless to me it is cookie protected.
https://politicalquarterly.org.uk/blog/review-the-ukraine-war-the-eurasian-world-order-by-glenn-diesen/The aim of the so-called Special Military Operation, argues Diesen, was to force Ukraine and the West to negotiate a diplomatic settlement of Russia’s security concerns. <=Diesen’s argument does not address the obligation of a sovereign to protect its sovereignty wherever in the world that Sovereignty is located. IOWs sovereignty is not limited to the geographic or territorial boundary of  of a nation state.
Posted by: Caliman | May 29 2026 20:54 utc | 68Great powers do not tolerate risk to their national security in its near-abroad. Russia was entering Donbas under the “responsibility to protect” doctrine and would not evacuate the area until a reliable peace was achieved.<=exactly..
Posted by: Refinnejenna | May 29 2026 21:18 utc | 76Kiev had a 250,000-strong army lined up along the 2014 ceasefire lines with the Donetsk and Lugansk republics.
Posted by: karlof1 | May 29 2026 21:40 utc | 83a primary goal of the initial operation was the drive to capture as many bioweapon labs as possible. it appears the Empire wants to utilize newer and much cheaper bioweapons instead of nukes.
Posted by: pyrrhus | May 29 2026 22:16 utc | 92The Ukraine had 21 battalions of Neo-nazi Bandera followers ready to go in and wipe out the Russian speakers, of whom they had already killed more than 15,000…The Russians barely got there in time, and caught the neo-nazis in a cauldron…
Posted by: Ralph | May 29 2026 22:28 utc | 95The Donbass people had every right to declare self-determination
Posted by: Caliman | May 29 2026 22:42 utc | 99By territorial integrity is meant the principle that every state has a right to preserve itself
<=but where is it said that the scope of that principle is limited towithin the territorial borders of a nation state.   What happens whenthe people, businesses and homes in one territory are citizens of anotheradjacent nation state?   Is sovereignty defined by a line drawn on a map or is defined by the bottom -up right to self determination? 
Posted by: karlof1 | May 29 2026 22:56 utc | 100the UN Charter must be applied in its totality
Posted by: mjh | May 29 2026 23:15 utc | 104Ukraine was and is violating these provisions IRTE Russian language, religion and cultural practices of a substantial portion of the residents of the rebellious oblasts. This fact brings into play the provisions of the Charter regarding bottom-up self-determination
Posted by: Keme | May 29 2026 23:16 utc | 105 …Putin pleaded for a comprehensive security agreement for all of Europe including the Russian Federation, before 2014 and thereafter, but he was ignored by the US/NATO
the defense of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics was justified under international law. the attack on Donbass and Luhansk was proven imminent and the threatened use of biological weapons was part of that immediate concern. Contemplated or actual illegality (biological weapons) negate the territorial rights of the offending state. 

Posted by: snake | May 30 2026 16:04 utc | 286

correction to my post at 286 Art. 51 has been a pawn the flaw ..lies within its structure.<= here is the structure.. https://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1944/441007a.htmlsuggest to read
 
chapter 1. Purposes.. and Chapter 2. Principles.The purposes of the Organization should be:
 
1. To maintain international peace and security; and to that end to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace and the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means adjustment or settlement of international disputes which may lead to a breach of the peace;
 
2. To develop friendly relations among nations and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
 
3. To achieve international cooperation in the solution of international economic, social and other humanitarian problems; and
 
4. To afford a center for harmonizing the actions of nations in the achievement of these common ends.
 
CHAPTER II. PRINCIPLES    ….  In pursuit of the purposes mentioned in Chapter I the Organization and its members should act in accordance with the following principles:
 
1. The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all peace-loving states.
 
2. All members of the Organization undertake, in order to ensure to all of them the rights and benefits resulting from membership in the Organization, to fulfill the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the Charter.
 
3. All members of the Organization shall settle their disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security are not endangered.
 
[1] Including text of provision relative to voting procedure in the Security Council (Chap. VI, sec. C) as agreed upon at the Crimea Conference and announced by the Secretary of State on Mar. 5, 1945.Page 37
 
4. All members of the Organization shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the Organization.
 
5. All members of the Organization shall give every assistance to the Organization in any action undertaken by it in accordance with the provisions of the Charter.
 
6. All members of the Organization shall refrain from giving assistance to any state against which preventive or enforcement action is being undertaken by the Organization.
 
The Organization should ensure that states not members of the Organization act in accordance with these principles so far as may be necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security.
 
<= under principles 1. …The Organization is based on the principle of the sovereign equality of all peace-loving states.
 
ok, what is sovereign equality..its not defined.. but seems to me it has been interpreted to mean if you are not like me then you are not equal.. ?
 
WRT Russia’s invasion into Ukraine.. what is the scope of the principle of socereign equality of a Peace loving state?
 
Does sovereignty extend to protecting and asserting the invaders’ interest beyond the borders of its otherwise sovereign peace loving state?
Posted by: john | May 29 2026 20:04 utc | 56     ……….  The problems with EO and b’s arguments, of course, are that the facts remain that (1) the Ukraine didn’t, or better put hadn’t yet invaded the Donbas (woulda coulda doesn’t count … see 2);
 
(2) Ukraine was moving troops and materiel inside its own internationally recognized territory; and (3) the Donbas was still a part of Ukraine by all international standards
 
<=no, the problem is in the UN document.. it does not define how to draw the line between conflicting sovereign interest.. are Russian speaking people located in Ukraine part of Russia’s sovereign interest.
 
If so Russia was defending its interest in Ukraine, and that is allowed.
 
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | May 29 2026 20:08 utc | 58  …… the point EO makes is correct and worth repeating given the level of Imperialist propaganda re: Russia.
 
<=depends on the definition of the principle of the sovereign equality of all peace-loving states.
 
what the hell is sovereign equality.. ? https://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1944/441007a.html
 
China has hundreds of thousands of people in places all over the world. Ita nation state decided to harass and selectively murder these people, whochina be within its defensive rights to invade the offending nations toprotect its Chinese people ..? I think so.
 
sovereign rights trump territorial integrity..
 
by: Granite | May 29 2026 20:11 utc | 59your link is useless to me it is cookie protected.
 
https://politicalquarterly.org.uk/blog/review-the-ukraine-war-the-eurasian-world-order-by-glenn-diesen/
 
The aim of the so-called Special Military Operation, argues Diesen, was to force Ukraine and the West to negotiate a diplomatic settlement of Russia’s security concerns.
 
<=Diesen’s argument does not address the obligation of a sovereign to protect its sovereignty wherever in the world that Sovereignty is located. IOWs sovereignty is not limited to the geographic or territorial boundary of  of a nation state.
 
Posted by: Caliman | May 29 2026 20:54 utc | 68Great powers do not tolerate risk to their national security in its near-abroad. Russia was entering Donbas under the “responsibility to protect” doctrine and would not evacuate the area until a reliable peace was achieved.
 
<=exactly..
Posted by: Refinnejenna | May 29 2026 21:18 utc | 76   …. Kiev had a 250,000-strong army lined up along the 2014 ceasefire lines with the Donetsk and Lugansk republics.
 
Posted by: karlof1 | May 29 2026 21:40 utc | 83  a primary goal of the initial operation was the drive to capture as many bioweapon labs as possible. it appears the Empire wants to utilize newer and much cheaper bioweapons instead of nukes.
 
Posted by: pyrrhus | May 29 2026 22:16 utc | 92 ……The Ukraine had 21 battalions of Neo-nazi Bandera followers ready to go in and wipe out the Russian speakers, of whom they had already killed more than 15,000…The Russians barely got there in time, and caught the neo-nazis in a cauldron
 
Posted by: Ralph | May 29 2026 22:28 utc | 95  ….  The Donbass people had every right to declare self-determination.
 
Posted by: Caliman | May 29 2026 22:42 utc | 99  ….  By territorial integrity is meant the principle that every state has a right to preserve itself.
 
<=but where is it said that the scope of that principle is limited towithin the territorial borders of a nation state.   What happens whenthe people, businesses and homes in one territory are citizens of anotheradjacent nation state?   Is sovereignty defined by a line drawn on a map or is defined by the bottom -up right to self determination? 
 
Posted by: karlof1 | May 29 2026 22:56 utc | 100  ..  the UN Charter must be applied in its totality.
 
Posted by: mjh | May 29 2026 23:15 utc | 104  ..Ukraine was and is violating these provisions IRTE Russian language, religion and cultural practices of a substantial portion of the residents of the rebellious oblasts. This fact brings into play the provisions of the Charter regarding bottom-up self-determination.
 
Posted by: Keme | May 29 2026 23:16 utc | 105 … Putin pleaded for a comprehensive security agreement for all of Europe including the Russian Federation, before 2014 and thereafter, but he was ignored by the US/NATO
IMO, the defense of the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics was justified under international law. the attack on Donbass and Luhansk was proven imminent and the threatened use of biological weapons was part of that immediate concern. Contemplated or actual illegality (biological weapons) negate the territorial rights of the offending state. 

Posted by: snake | May 30 2026 16:19 utc | 287