Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 25, 2025
Ukraine Open Thread 2025-297

News & views related to the war in Ukraine …

Comments

The NABU raids are fog. The chief investigators will be home in the US for Christmas. ***
Posted by: Bingo | Dec 27 2025 21:59 utc | 387
 
The purpose of the NABU raids is not to get convictions for corruption. When the cops knock on your door during a political campaign, you are immediately off message and frozen. Budanov was silenced months ago from some legal scandal. He has been out of the press commentary cycle ever since. With “anyone close to Zelensky” being a target, Zelensky’s circle won’t be falling over each other to talk to the press about the narrative of the day. This is about a forcing function that gives an opportunity to  change the narrative. US Politics 101. 
 

Posted by: frithguild | Dec 27 2025 23:34 utc | 401

A credibility failure looms for the Hegemon : Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 27 2025 22:50 utc | 397
 
It’s done dude; time to move on. For years I’ve posted $dollar = mic = energy, but I think it’s time for an update:
 
Miltec = money
 
To expand, the debt money system is simply a result of a tax & tribute mechanism driven by energy surplus, but crucially, enabled by superior miltec. (Spanish, Dutch, British, USA)
 
It operated for only 300+ years; it can just as easily be substituted by any other totem as long as the enforcer possesses superior weapons technology aka miltec.
 
Hence, miltec = money
 
The USA no longer possesses superior miltec, so we cannot defend the dollar. QED
 
I somewhat understand the desire to wring out every ounce of emotional heartbreak, but it is truly a waste of time.
 
It doesn’t need to be debated, explained or rationalized; rather, it’s simply time to move on.

Posted by: Markw | Dec 27 2025 23:38 utc | 402

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 27 2025 21:15 utc | 372
Re timing of NABU raids.
Depending on who they collar, and for what…. Big Z may decide to leave Washington, this very weekend, for a mansion in Miami (or a hacienda in Haifa) and never return to Keeeeeeve.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 27 2025 23:41 utc | 403

So many important moves are not “big arrow” moves. They are subtle, persistent, and below the radar.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 27 2025 21:43 utc | 380
 
So true. I see a lot of Russian and Chinese moves soar above heads. They have to actually lower the bar in order to maybe ring a bell.

Posted by: arby | Dec 28 2025 0:52 utc | 404

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 27 2025 22:37 utc | 396
 
prigo tha” jew hero who tried to save Russia, but murdered by evil Putin, who works for jews and England too!
 

Posted by: UWDude | Dec 28 2025 0:55 utc | 405

It operated for only 300+ years; it can just as easily be substituted by any other totem as long as the enforcer possesses superior weapons technology aka miltec.
 
Posted by: Markw | Dec 27 2025 23:38 utc | 406

 
That part ain’t the problem … it’s when they settle the matter about who owns the standover franchise … might be several decades of hard times before it stabilizes again.
 
There won’t be any, “Just move on” … it will be more like, “Pick a side.”
 
It’s already going that way.

Posted by: Tel | Dec 28 2025 1:17 utc | 406

Martyanov, Saturday, December 27, 2025:
 
“About Kupyansk … … and much-much more.”
 
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2025/12/about-kupyansk.html

Posted by: FollowsTheWay | Dec 28 2025 1:17 utc | 407

Posted by: pepe | Dec 27 2025 23:32 utc | 404
The Horses Are Running – Song by Nestor Makhno
I couldn’t find the telegram link to the video of a RF soldier removing the Ukrainian flag around the statue of Nestor Makhno and replacing it with some sort of a Russian one.
I don’t think Nestor would have sided with Keeeeeeev. 
I’m not sure how stoked he would have been with the Russians, either.

Posted by: lex talionis | Dec 28 2025 1:42 utc | 408

 The Russians, like the Chinese, have a confidence that is borne of religion, survivorship, and cultural history.
 
They will wait an enemy out, believing that they will outlast any threat.
 
He who (metaphorically) blinks first, loses.
 
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 27 2025 17:07 utc | 322

 
Your attempt at logical interference be honoured,  but you fell in your usual trap again, assuming that everyone is solely about power like you. Then you get to project on news items and commentary, and reproduce them without  genuine understanding or critical introspection.The truth in this case is much more stark. The Chinese in their eternal warring with the nomads at the northern front realized fully well that this conflict would not be over until some form of cooperation had removed the essential needs from the invaders. The military playbook between settled farmers (who are comparably rich and feature standing defensive armies) against nomads on horseback (who are economically less productive and prone to destitution), but have a serious advantage in mobility, is as old as history itself.
 
The Great Wall was merely a minor and unsuccessful attempt at solving the problem. Going all the way had the modern Chinese population intermingle with Siberian steppe people to a degree of about 50%. An early anecdote of examplary behaviour which came to my ears goes about thusly:
 
“Oh. Wild horseman from the north, who’s now plundering my village – you must be hungry. Why don’t you sit down and have soup with us? And while we’re at it, do you already know my daughter?”

Posted by: persiflo | Dec 28 2025 1:56 utc | 409

<–  logical inference (typo)

Posted by: persiflo | Dec 28 2025 2:38 utc | 410

What part of don’t feed the obvious trolls did all you barflies miss? You are just making it harder for b to manage the joint.  When in doubt, just STFU and read on by
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 27 2025 16:38 utc | 313
 
Some people just can’t help themselves. Same as any other social media platform. People know that bot farms exist, therefore there’s a good chance the person you’re arguing with isn’t even a real person. There’ve been reports of troll accounts being ran from India and Southest Asia, therefore you’re literally getting worked up by someone working 12 hours in a sweatshop. And we’ve all heard of ragebait, and how algorithm-driven arguments are there just to generate engagement, still people can’t help themselves. It’s a thing. People like to argue and quarrel and bicker. A few people here have commented on “they have the right to troll because of Free Speech, if we/b/etc. banned every troll then we’re no better than the MSM”, a few other brave souls said that they argue in the hope that maybe, just maybe, just maybe one of the trolls can come around and “see the light”, but there it is. Hell right here in MOA, trolls, most likely paid, come here specifically to derail threats and we all know it’s happening, but still fall for it. Some people here just like arguing. It’s fun. It’s a pasttime, it’s enjoyable, and no they don’t give two wet shits if b has more work to do, arguing is fun and enjoyable. 
 
You might wanna try it sometime. I remember reading somewhere the one of the reasons we live in this Age Of Rage is that rage itself is literally addicting. Next time you see a troll, just unload on the fucker. Maybe you’ll get hooked, too.

Posted by: Stark | Dec 28 2025 2:41 utc | 411

trolls, most likely paid, come here specifically to derail threats and

 
😆 ;#DeviceNotPresent

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 28 2025 3:18 utc | 412

In response to

You might wanna try it sometime. I remember reading somewhere the one of the reasons we live in this Age Of Rage is that rage itself is literally addicting. Next time you see a troll, just unload on the fucker. Maybe you’ll get hooked, too.
Posted by: Stark | Dec 28 2025 2:41 utc | 415

 
In my early days at the bar I was quite touchy and took all this textual white noise seriously.  And then almost 6 years ago now I got my neural networks normalized and I am not affected like before.
 
I still miss the old MoA days when the noise to signal ration was way more on the signal side and feel compelled to try and mother barflies back into that mode of MoA  interaction……same as trying to get barflies to focus on public/private finance instead of all that proxy stuff….sigh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 28 2025 3:51 utc | 413

Alexander Mercouris
 
https://www.youtube.com/@AlexMercouris/videos
 
“Russia brings massive law claim for frozen assets return; EU advised to settler; Huliaipole captured.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 28 2025 4:18 utc | 414

psycho, I’m afraid it’s him again –  The Dog, who never got over being banned here because he’s schizophrenic. 
 
Irony abounds. If he was any bit sensible, he could come back and discuss with us all he wants. But no, this mofo is about pure destruction. 
 
I gave up my hopes of re-integrating him here after his recent egregious posts directed at juliania, who were mercifully removed quite quickly. 

Posted by: persiflo | Dec 28 2025 4:20 utc | 415

BBC
Rich and voiceless: How Putin has kept Russia’s billionaires on side in the war
3 hours ago
By Vitaly Shevchenko
 
😁
 

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 28 2025 4:20 utc | 416

@ persiflo | Dec 28 2025 4:20 utc | 421 about the MoA personalities….sigh
 
I hope Peter AU1 succeeds in ignoring the trolls out to get him and adds his value like before to the threads.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 28 2025 4:26 utc | 417

Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Dec 20 2025 2:24 utc | 216
“In fact more specifically neocons like Rubio started this war as you know and now pretend they are the good guys invoking peace. ”
 
If you have evidence of Rubio’s involvement in starting the war in Ukraine, please share it with the rest of us.  Everything I’ve read points to Nuland, Kagan, Sullivan and other Biden administration Deep State actors. If you don’t like Rubio, just come out and say so. Don’t try and blame him for Biden’s malfeasance to make him appear more guilty.
 

Posted by: Paranaense | Dec 28 2025 4:47 utc | 418

New Corruption Scandal Erupts in Kiev
 
https://www.rt.com/russia/630086-new-corruption-scandal-ukraine-rada/
 
“…Ukraine’s anti-corruption authorities say they have uncovered a criminal vote-rigging and bribery scheme involving serving members of the country’s parliament, following an undercover operation..”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 28 2025 4:52 utc | 419

psycho, I’m afraid it’s him again –  The Dog, who never got over being banned here because he’s schizophrenic.  Irony abounds. If he was any bit sensible, he could come back and discuss with us all he wants. But no, this mofo is about pure destruction.  I gave up my hopes of re-integrating him here after his recent egregious posts directed at juliania, who were mercifully removed quite quickly. 
Posted by: persiflo | Dec 28 2025 4:20 utc | 421
 
How do you know that? How could you know that?
 

Posted by: papa | Dec 22 2025 5:56 utc | 119
Really. Your child is over and you are fine?
Posted by: papa | Dec 22 2025 5:58 utc | 120
Thats why I don’t believe nothing, nor that Juliania. His boy has pass out and She is commenting? No way
Posted by: papa | Dec 22 2025 6:00 utc | 121

 

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 28 2025 5:35 utc | 420

Hello, “For the United States, the main adversary continues to be China, so it is important for them to sever ties between Russia and Beijing, and for this, something needs to be offered.” This was stated by the head of the Main Intelligence Directorate, Budanov. Responding to a journalist’s comment that such a position seems ambiguous for Ukraine, he noted: “So what? The whole world doesn’t revolve around Ukraine. And Ukraine, in turn, does not live, for example, by China.” 
https://antikor.ua/ru/articles/811197-budanov_sa_stremjatsja_razorvatj_sojuz_rf_i_kitaja_i_mir_ne_vrashchaetsja_toljko_vokrug_ukrainy
Is she really that stupid?
https://t.me/infantmilitario/173497

Posted by: Sany Dnepropetrovsk | Dec 28 2025 5:41 utc | 421

Bingo@1
 
Europe has no significant oil or other natural resources, it being a threat to the US (or the democracy being in danger there) is really weird.

Posted by: ArmChairGeneral | Dec 28 2025 6:25 utc | 422

Swiss journalist and politician, Guy Mettan  has written a book called “Creating Russophobia” that examines exactly what you mention. 
Posted by: ZimZum | Dec 27 2025 11:12 utc | 270
 
************
 
“Creating Russophobia: From the Great Religious Schism to Anti-Putin Hysteria” – available for free download from Anna’s Archive [ https://annas-archive.li/ ]
 
A must read!

Posted by: General Factotum | Dec 28 2025 6:48 utc | 423

Ukraine a corrupt ‘viper’s den’ – Hunter Biden
The son of the ex-US president has claimed he had been “naive” about the level of kleptocracy in the country

Hunter Biden, the son of former US President Joe Biden. ©  Getty Images

Ukraine is a “viper’s den” rife with corruption, Hunter Biden, the son of former US President Joe Biden, has said, as he reflected on his time as a board member of the Ukrainian energy company Burisma.

https://www.swentr.site/news/630030-ukraine-corrupt-viper-den-hunter-biden/

Posted by: Funny | Dec 28 2025 7:05 utc | 424

Ukraine a corrupt ‘viper’s den’ – Hunter Biden
Posted by: Funny | Dec 28 2025 7:05 utc | 438

Yeah, I’ve read that the other day on ZH.  I wonder about the purpose of publishing that interview.  Late remorse?  Vindicating Trump, JD Vance, Marjorie Taylor Greene and all others saying the same all along?  Prepping the dem base for the inevitable?  Again, timing might help to put things into perspective, we’re in the midst of remote-controlled NABU operations tightening the noose around Zelenskyy’s neck.
===
 

Not new. Wisco sockpuppet …. 
Posted by: Funny | Dec 28 2025 7:07 utc | 439

Да.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 28 2025 7:15 utc | 425

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_mistake

I’ve posted plenty of dumber things.

Funny | Dec 28 2025 7:07 utc | 439
Not unexpected from a cypher like you.
 

Posted by: Laurence | Dec 28 2025 7:49 utc | 426

x.com/GeromanAT/status/2004918582098972986
 
 
🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇸 A new batch of elite American mercenaries has been eliminated in Ukraine
 
▪️As a result of the drone attack, three former US Army servicemen, who were fighting as foreign mercenaries, were killed. Among the victims: Kevin Kelly, Hayden Miller, and Sean McVay.
 
▪️Kelly previously served in elite units: the 75th Ranger Regiment and the 20th Special Forces Group (“Green Berets”). The militants were destroyed as a result of the Russian FPV drone hitting a pickup truck in which the group was located. In addition to them, two other foreign mercenaries received serious injuries.

Posted by: UWDude | Dec 28 2025 8:10 utc | 427

Sparky dark Kiev ==> https://t.me/divannyevoini/18075
 

Posted by: too scents | Dec 28 2025 8:22 utc | 428

From Southfront:
“Russian media, citing insider sources, report that practical work has begun at the General Staff and Defense Ministry on scenarios for potential direct conflict with the Baltic states, particularly Lithuania and Estonia. Moscow no longer views threats from these countries as mere rhetoric. A possible Lithuanian blockade of Kaliningrad supply routes is seen as a “red line,” prompting reinforcements and updated response plans.”
https://southfront.press/kyiv-plunged-into-darkness-russia-launches-new-massive-strike-on-ukrainian-capitals-energy-infrastructure-videos/
 
As I’ve predicted in comments here, after the Ukraines started to be processed and maybe even before it is fully annexed by Russia, there will be a move to process the Baltic statelets [Note 1]. They will regret taking a confrontational stance against a Great Power embarked on a large program to consolidate, develop and grow.
Lithuania in particular, it is such a pity that they put their capital city directly on the way of a land connection between mainland Russia and Kaliningrad, tsk, tsk, such a pity.
 
Note 1: Russians think that they gave the Baltics special privileges during Soviet times. The Baltics had the best salaries, provisioning, investment, etc, compared to all other Soviet republics. This is a deeply held cultural concept by all Russians. So the Russians have a special punishment for them Baltics for being so ungrateful and traitorous after the fall of the Soviet Union, when Russia was weak. This punishment is coming.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 8:53 utc | 429

This punishment is coming.
 
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 8:53 utc | 446
 

 
The abject disrespect the Baltic states have paid to their elder citizens needs to be corrected.  It is shameful.
 
The Western project does not proceed without cultural hegemony.  Bigotry is therefore necessary.
 

Posted by: too scents | Dec 28 2025 9:07 utc | 430

The Russians are on a roll: Mirnograd, Rodinskoye and Artemovka (Sofievka) in the DPR, Stepnogorsk and Huliaipole in the Zaporozhye direction. All of them fully annexed or 90% annexed. 

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 9:11 utc | 431

It’s a duck shoot and the ducks are Azovs and mercenaries. 
 
Posted by: julianmacfarlane | Dec 28 2025 9:01 utc | 448
 

 
I have the feeling that Kupiansk is also an intelligence gathering honeypot.
 

Posted by: too scents | Dec 28 2025 9:12 utc | 432

Smarter than average ukrops surrender in Mirnograd during night-time. Thermal and reverse thermal images so good you can almost see the white of their eyes.
https://ok.ru/video/10586073336448

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 9:21 utc | 433

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 8:53 utc | 446
 
Yes.  People here saying Russoa has no designs on Europe, while I say Europe desrves everything coming to it.
 
To disarm yourself trying to take out Russia is the height of stupidity, that could only be attained by a feminized bureaucracy that never got its ass kicked.
 
Like when one pf them said they felt Putin was “forcing himself on her”.
 
No, you silly bitch.  Rape is for women.  You get to live after.  war is for men, and men dont have to worry about the emptional trauma of rape when they lose in war, because they are DEAD.   And all these silly bitches declared war on Russia.  All their acts, the sanctions, the shadow fleet bombings, the frozen assets, the intelligence sharing and help are all acts of war.   Top that off with disarming themselves to try and rape Russia?
 
This degree of stupidity should be culled, and in time, if Russia does so, the cacophony of “I told you sos” about Russia wanting to invade Europe wont mean a damn thing.  They will all feel like little Cassandras, unaware they were all just stupid self-fulfilling prophecies.
So, yeah.  If Russia has a greater geopolitical purpose to wreck Europe as well, then, Good for Russia.  The world needs less fucking idiots 

Posted by: UWDude | Dec 28 2025 9:36 utc | 434

The effect of constant propaganda and a complete lack of historical insight, or even an attempt at understanding. The text below is from a discussion thread on the Dutch “news “site nu.nl. It is highlichted there. Interesting. 

“Who’s really going to get angry with Russia? The current “pampering and keeping things going” strategy won’t achieve peace. Okay, the respective (small) arms industries are profiting from the fact that this conflict continues for a long time.
Have we really learned nothing from the Second World War, where the aggressive states only knew how to stop after almost everything had been bombed to pieces? Why don’t we do the same with Russia now?
Yes, innocent civilians will die. However, what is a human life worth to the Russian authorities? Let it rain missiles on Moscow for a few weeks, with the emphasis on the Kremlin. Perhaps after that, people with even a little bit of responsibility left in their bodies will stand up in Russia and finally know when to stop.
I fear that in this conflict too, there is no other solution.”

Posted by: Zoals Ik Het Zie | Dec 28 2025 9:39 utc | 435

Posted by: too scents | Dec 28 2025 9:12 utc | 451
 
I am not losing any sleep over Kupiansk.   It was taken relatively quickly, so it can be taken relatively quickly again. Putin has stated prime objective is the soldiers lives, so fall back if you have to.  You can take it back in a few months.
 
This happens all the time in war,  Cities go back and forth.   And ot is hilarious to see people act like its the harbonger of doom, when its the first major loss, (if a loss at all), since 2022.
 
And ots not major, because once Ukraine retakes it… ..then what, they bave MORE manpower to defend ot this time than they did 6 monthsago? LOL.

Posted by: UWDude | Dec 28 2025 9:42 utc | 436

a complete lack of historical insight
 
Posted by: Zoals Ik Het Zie | Dec 28 2025 9:39 utc | 455
 

 
Every third generation is doomed to re-learn the lessons the previous two generations have forgoten.
 
This is especially true when society does not respect its elders.
 

Posted by: too scents | Dec 28 2025 9:43 utc | 437

Bingo@1
Europe has no significant oil or other natural resources, it being a threat to the US (or the democracy being in danger there) is really weird.
Posted by: ArmChairGeneral | Dec 28 2025 6:25 utc | 437

This may sound like a conspiracy theory or a non sequitur, but I think it’s (whatever’s left of) the industrial knowhow and manufacturing sector that, if combined with Russian resources, would leave the USA in the dust should Europe join the rest of the Eurasian landmass, if not exactly BRICS. Or so it would if it weren’t for this proxy war the US initiated, among other factors.

Posted by: joey_n | Dec 28 2025 10:01 utc | 438

In response to psychohistorian@421,
 
You’re asking for the impossible. How can anyone give you an example of potentially effective criticism if that’s the only thing that immediately gets banned on this blog? Your best bet is to imagine what a potentially effective criticism might look like, based on what’s potentially missing from these pages — think of it as the dark matter of this blog-universe. Good luck.

Posted by: Skiffer | Dec 28 2025 10:18 utc | 439

I did find this item though
https://www.rt.com/news/629876-vance-islamists-europe-nukes/

Vance issues warning over ‘Islamist-aligned’ Western Europe
Nuclear-armed Western Europe could become a major security risk for the US if the national identity of its countries continues to change due to mass immigration, US Vice President J.D. Vance has warned.
Vance told UnHerd that Britain and France, along with other US allies, currently lack a sense of national identity and are losing cultural links to America due to their immigration policies, according to an interview transcript published Monday.
“If they allow themselves to be overwhelmed with very destructive moral ideas, then you allow nuclear weapons to fall in the hands of people who can actually cause very, very serious harm to the United States,” Vance said.
He claimed “Islamist-aligned or Islamist-adjacent people” are already winning local elections in Europe and said it was “absolutely” conceivable such politicians could gain significant national power within 15 years.

My cynicism remains unchanged, so it leaves me asking Vance – if the USA didn’t enact ‘regime change’ in Iraq and other places, would Europe still be as inundated with the immigrants it has now?

Posted by: joey_n | Dec 28 2025 10:26 utc | 440

Re: Posted by: UWDude | Dec 28 2025 9:42 utc | 456
 

I am not losing any sleep over Kupiansk  It was taken relatively quickly, so it can be taken relatively quickly again. Putin has stated prime objective is the soldiers lives, so fall back if you have to.  You can take it back in a few months. This happens all the time in war,  Cities go back and forth.   And ot is hilarious to see people act like its the harbonger of doom, when its the first major loss, (if a loss at all), since 2022. And ots not major, because once Ukraine retakes it… ..then what, they bave MORE manpower to defend ot this time than they did 6 monthsago? LOL.

 
LOL. It wasn’t taken quickly – Russia have been on the outskirts of Kupiansk since late 2022! It took aroiund 3 years to take it the second time.
Who knows how long it will take the third time? Another 3 years?

Posted by: Julian | Dec 28 2025 10:49 utc | 441

Posted by: joey_n | Dec 28 2025 10:26 utc | 460

 
It’s much more nuanced and I’m pretty sure you know that.  The reasons are not just “Made in USA”, on the contrary.  For example, there are plenty of unfavorable trade deals with the old EU colonizers of Africa (guess why Mr. Real Independence Captain Traoré of Burkina Faso is considered a hero for many), the chaos brought to the continent by the cowardice Anglo-French murder of Gaddafi; then over the course of the past 10+ years it was Germany which did proactively incentivize illegal migration of a certain demographic (swaths of young men of military recruitment age, not so much women, elderly or children), actively trafficking them via so-called NGOs (which magically happen to get public funding and favorable media campaigning), actively providing legal and bureaucratic assistance by means of so-called NGOs so that the newly imported illegals know their benefit and welfare entitlements better than the average indigenous taxpayer of the host nation would ever know.
 
Why would such an entitled person do any effort to adapt to the host society?  Few did, and they are mocked by their refugee-turned-citizen peers, which form a parallel society: ‘Why the hack do you go to [legal, registered, tax and social security paying] work in this country? Are you stupid?‘ — To sum it up: Most of the EU’s migration crisis is of the EU’s own doing, and this also and especially goes for the Ukrainian flavor.  Warsaw citizens, for example, are not very happy about the situation, to put it mildly.
 
By the way, in case you missed it, I replied to your question in an older thread.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 28 2025 10:59 utc | 442

This may sound like a conspiracy theory…
Posted by: joey_n | Dec 28 2025 10:01 utc | 458
There have always been two schools of thought.
1) The British/American view, according to which any union (economic, cultural, financial, or in terms of expertise) between Western Europe, especially Germany, and Russia must be prevented at all costs
and
2) cooperation between Russia and Western Europe (w/o Britain)because this area would then encompass over 2,000 years of experience, know how, culture, and almost unlimitless resources, which no competitor could even come close to matching (except perhaps China and India).

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 11:09 utc | 443

Posted by: joey_n | Dec 28 2025 10:26 utc | 460
My cynicism remains unchanged, so it leaves me asking Vance – if the USA didn’t enact ‘regime change’ in Iraq and other places, would Europe still be as inundated with the immigrants it has now?

 
Yes, absolutely.
America attacking Muslim countries for Israel or other reasons did not make working class types from Muslim countries move to Europe en masse.
They were invited in and supported by European political elites thru an NGO complex as a solution to the problem that European women are not having children to renew the stock of workers, voters and taxpayers.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 11:10 utc | 444

Posted by: Julian | Dec 28 2025 10:49 utc | 461
 
I knew yoyr dumb ass would say this.
 
once Russia started in on Kupyansk itself, the cory was captured relatively quickly.
Do you know what relatively means in this context?   Jack ass.
How long has Ukraine been on the putskirts of Kupyansk? 
 
You are such a pedantic retard of a troll.  take your LOL and shove it.
 
 

Posted by: UWDude | Dec 28 2025 11:11 utc | 445

Who knows how long it will take the third time? Another 3 years?
Posted by: Julian | Dec 28 2025 10:49 utc | 461
 
ZERO chance, ZERO, Ukraine still has Kupyansk by Jan 1 2027.  Itwill be AT LEAST 50 km behind Russian lines by then.
 
WATCH AND WEEP, LIKE THE BITCH YOU ARE.
 

Posted by: UWDude | Dec 28 2025 11:16 utc | 446

if the USA didn’t enact ‘regime change’ in Iraq and other places, would Europe still be as inundated with the immigrants it has now?
Posted by: joey_n | Dec 28 2025 10:26 utc | 460
The question falls short; the simultaneous social developments in Europe must also be taken into account.It is no coincidence that the wave of politicization toward “everyone to us” began at the same time, culminating in the disciplinary campaign in the wake of the COVID virus, without which Merkel’s policies, for example, would not have been possible. All of this is connected and was/is obviously controlled.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 11:20 utc | 447

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 11:10 utc | 464

I beg to differ, slightly.  “They were invited in” sounds like it was official policy communicated to the public.  Back in 2014, when it started, and to this date, anybody who said so was stigmatized as a nuttzi conspiracy theorist.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 28 2025 11:22 utc | 448

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 11:20 utc | 467

True that.  Chiming in on the WAR WITH RUSSIA! tune is the current IQ test for the masses.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 28 2025 11:23 utc | 449

Who knows how long it will take the third time? Another 3 years?
Posted by: Julian | Dec 28 2025 10:49 utc | 461
 
see the map, for me that looks like a trap. I read currently 6.000 elite Ukainian units there are, w/o bigger support.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 11:24 utc | 450

Back in 2014, when it started, and to this date, anybody who said so was stigmatized as a nuttzi conspiracy theorist.
Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 28 2025 11:22 utc | 468
Also too short, connections not seen.It began at the latest with the fall of Muammar al-Gaddafi, but actually even earlier with the revolutions in Egypt. Gaddafi pointed out at the time that he was shielding Africa’s population wave. But his oil and the American and French desires were characterized by greed, overconfidence, and short-sightedness.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 11:36 utc | 451

see the map, for me that looks like a trap. I read currently 6.000 elite Ukainian units there are, w/o bigger support.
 
Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 11:24 utc | 470
 
more like lure than trap.  It’s not an ambush in process or anything.  
what I am saying is the point is not to surround and destroy the ukros in Kupyansk, its to make the Ukros move into  Kupyansk.  Kupyansk, like the rabbit ears above Pokrovsk, was and is not in an easily defensible position.  It is what Sun Tzu calls “contentious ground”, easy to take by either side.  That is why a small city like Chasiv Yar took forever, block by block, but Kupyansk, much bigger, fellin a tenth of the time, and now Ukraine is taking it back at about the same speed, which for this war, is fast.
 
The rabbit ears are gone now too.  But so is Pokrovsk and Myrnograd.  Some silly commentators were saying the rabbit ears were some kind of new breakthrough aimed north, but the wise said it was just to reroute forces sent to relieve Pokrovsk.   The latter were clearly right, IF  you understand that Russia is IN COMPLETE CONTROL of shaping the battlefield.

Posted by: UWDude | Dec 28 2025 11:39 utc | 452

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 11:36 utc | 471

I mentioned Gaddafi above, #462.  Welcome.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 28 2025 11:44 utc | 453

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 28 2025 11:22 utc | 468
[…]
You’re right. Instead of ‘They were invited in‘ I should’ve said ‘They were taken in‘, because it was a covert policy, hidden from the public, never discussed in the open.
 
The important thing to understand is that a system of European organizations, mostly non-governmental, was set up by European political elites, from the origin to the final destination, to fill demographic population gaps in senescent European nations, with excess people produced in 3rd world nations around Europe and in LatAm and Asia. This was a deliberate State policy.
 
I think experts calculated that the cost of these policies in terms of lower IQ + lower morals + higher crime and poverty + ghetto-ization of major cities + social disunity + lower trust + weaker meritocracy, was smaller than the cost of making European women have more children, over a time horizon short enough to fill the demographic gap before it caused banckruptcy of the welfare system, in particular pensions.
 
If you increase the time horizon to several decades, then it is less costly to incentivize European women to have more children rather than import already grown-up people from the 3rd world, but then the risk of experiencing bankruptcy of the welfare system before the children of European women matured to become workers, voters and taxpayers, was too high.
 
We should always remember that statepeople see the rest of the population as cattle to be nurtured, controlled and harvested.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 12:02 utc | 454

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 12:02 utc | 474
 
Agreed. Also, having an informed debate was not an option, because the purported string of arguments would have been torn apart mid-air by the popular majority, while Japan would have posed as “Exhibit A” that even an aging population can function thanks to automation, and increase of productivity — arguably the EU, especially Germany, does not have that for about 25 years now.
 
But hey, here the pattern of Merkelian dictatorship/autocracy repeats.  On all big societal issues and challenges, broad public debate (encompassing the full spectrum of options) is verboten, be it climate, illegals, Covid or the war.  The showcase window of acceptable debate is tightly curated and hedged.  The result is an echo chamber of their own propaganda.
 
Ironically, this led up to the current state of affairs:

  • The climate regulations, which are not about climate at all but were installed (Paris accords) in a foul attempt to keep China at bay by forcing it to reduce CO2 output (utterly failed) while protecting the then CO2-wise better faring EU industry, grew out of control, fostered their own regulatory ecosystem of ever-newly created red tape, strangulating the EU industry.  Intent vs real outcome 0:1.
  • The refugee and illegal immigration crisis was an attempt to lure in cheap workers for the minimum wage jobs Germans, French and Dutch no longer were willing to work. Simultaneously, lefty policies extended the welfare benefits to be less restrictive, essentially enabling minimum-wage workers to choose to either work or stay at home anyways—and roughly have the same money.  Hence, companies were forced to increase wages at the low end to find people in the first place, hurting competitiveness thanks to higher prices of the end product.  Intent vs real outcome 0:1.
  • I guess we’re all clear on the Russia Russia Russia sanctions etc.;  intent vs real outcome 0:1.

 
Whatever they touch turns into shit…

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 28 2025 12:27 utc | 455

to fill demographic population gaps in senescent European nations, with excess people
 
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 12:02 utc | 474
 

 
You needn’t blame  demographics as being the basis of immigration policy.  The motivation, and it is the same everywhere, is wage suppression.  The unfortunate cross cultural friction is merely a side effect of keeping the working class down and divided.
 

Posted by: too scents | Dec 28 2025 12:31 utc | 456

@ Nervous German | Dec 28 2025 12:27 utc | 475@ too scents | Dec 28 2025 12:31 utc | 476
You are disregarding the influence and background of the emerging wave of NGOs, including NGBT.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 12:39 utc | 457

Every third generation is doomed to re-learn the lessons the previous two generations have forgoten.
 This is especially true when society does not respect its elders.
 
Posted by: too scents | Dec 28 2025 9:43 utc | 457

 
Of course this presupposes having elders worthy of respect. In Europe’s case…

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 28 2025 12:42 utc | 458

psycho, I’m afraid it’s him again –  The Dog, who never got over being banned here because he’s schizophrenic.  
Posted by: persiflo | Dec 28 2025 4:20 utc | 423

 
Much more likely it’s Wisco this time around. Dog more or less immediately lapses into vicious and arguably psychotic attacks; Wisco just whines about how underappreciated and unfairly treated he is, with attacks on others playing a secondary role.
 
Not sure who “pepe” is; the style doesn’t match either of them.
 
Of course it’s not impossible that the same person is behind both or all three of these personae, but consistently maintaining the differentiation between them would be difficult.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 28 2025 12:50 utc | 459

re:  UWDude | Dec 28 2025 9:36 utc | 453
you wrote:
So, yeah.  If Russia has a greater geopolitical purpose to wreck Europe as well, then, Good for Russia.  The world needs less fucking idiots.”
Sergey Karaganov said, during a recent interview with Glen Diesen, that Russia needs to acknowledge that “Europe is the source of the worst of human history — racism, colonialism, serial genocides, and world wars. . . . Europe needs to be put under stricter control or fenced away from the world, not to poison it anymore.”
 

Posted by: Perimetr | Dec 28 2025 12:53 utc | 460

Europe needs to be put under stricter control or fenced away from the world, not to poison it anymore.”
 
Posted by: Perimetr | Dec 28 2025 12:53 utc | 480

 
Well, easier said than done, and Russia, having a sensible leadership, has little stomach for all of the (pardon the mixed metaphor) headaches that exerting the “stricter control” would cause.
 
Russia doesn’t need having a bunch of Galicians, Balts, Poles, etc. sniping at it — memories of post-WWII Ukroterrorism are still fresh enough…and then Russia has a fractious southern border to deal with on top of that.
 
So that’s the dilemma: Give the Euros the fight they’re so desperately spoiling for, but then deal with the unpleasant  consequences of victory. Small wonder the Russian leadership wants to keep the fighting to a localized minimum in the (quite possibly vain) hope that at least some of the Euros will come to their senses.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 28 2025 13:13 utc | 461

How do you know that? How could you know that?
 
Posted by: Laurence | Dec 28 2025 5:35 utc | 433

 
The procedure involves a scrambler to pick up the numerological signature of The Dog’s posts, two spoons of garlic powder, and the crushed head of rabbit. Then I go over to the Ouija board. I’m a psi researcher, remember? Now troll off, or I might send you a birthday gift next year.

Posted by: persiflo | Dec 28 2025 13:29 utc | 462

None of this takes into account historical developments and the two actual causes of the problem.
Who owns the land and who has the money (often mixed), i.e., in a historical sense, large landowners, serfs, and banks (formerly credit brokers)
This brings us to our financial system and its roots, which are more than 2,000 years old.
Communism and socialism were/are not the solution either, but too restrictive and short-sighted.
The visible consequence is a flawed electoral system, because democracy requires that all voters have the same information, which has long since ceased to be the case, and that they do not always look only at the short term, i.e., re-election does not bring financial or other advantages.
We will not be able to change this, but we can use it to understand contexts and define causes and effects correctly, rather than reversing them.
 
(That is why all ideological statements such as “elites,” “Jews,” or whatever else are completely nonsensical and only reveal the ideological narrow-mindedness of the poster, who thinks only within their fixed patterns of thought and prejudices.)

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 13:34 utc | 463

smartfox@483…….the thing with being narrow minded, it gets right to the point, nothing wishy washy, no ambiguity, just pointing out over and over and over and over where the issue lies, if you feel bad about other posters being narrow minded, you find a big word that covers them all…….I’m open to suggestions.
 
Cheers M 
 
….and BTW, it doesn’t matter what they are called they are EVIL!

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 28 2025 14:29 utc | 464

..narrow minded,..
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 28 2025 14:29 utc | 484
 
No, I don’t think that’s narrow-minded, but rather the convenience of not having to think about connections and preferring to follow a simplification based on one’s own ideology, no matter how inaccurate it may be in a specific case. One’s own ideology controls the understanding of what is read and written. Everything else is too inconvenient.
Our “click-me-I-think-for-you” habit, especially among smartphone users.
 

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 14:40 utc | 465

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 11:10 utc | 464
——————————-
So all those Syrians refugees who fled Syria were invited by the Europeans? Or were they driven out of Syria due to a conflict engineered by the usual culprits?

Posted by: scc | Dec 28 2025 15:51 utc | 466

So all those Syrians refugees who fled Syria were invited by the Europeans? Or were they driven out of Syria due to a conflict engineered by the usual culprits?
Posted by: scc | Dec 28 2025 15:51 utc | 486
 
Could be a little of both.  

Posted by: Fredrick | Dec 28 2025 15:54 utc | 467

Posted by: scc | Dec 28 2025 15:51 utc | 486
[…]
Even though America wrecked many 3rd world nations under neocon management, European nations could’ve just enforced their immigration laws, which up to 2014, precluded the arrival and settlement of illegal or unqualified migrants. Europe chose to incentivize the movement of people from wrecked countries into Europe.
 
Before the policies we are discussing with Nervous German were implemented, a migrant needed to have a work contract, medical certificates and police records validated by consular offices, validation of educational credentials by The Hague Apostille, and his family could join him after 2 or more years. That was all thrown out of the window. Well, these regulations still apply for high level migrants, academics and such, while they are completely ignored for working class types.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 16:21 utc | 468

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 16:21 utc | 488
————————
The difference between the migrant status you describe and the thousands who fled the combat zones is that the latter were/are refugees, not voluntary migrants. Refugees have a special status they have not to justify their presence by a work contract and other documents and authorisations.
How avoiding refugees? By stopping wrecking their countries, Libya , Irak, Syria, etc. 

Posted by: scc | Dec 28 2025 16:37 utc | 469

Posted by: too scents | Dec 28 2025 12:31 utc | 476
[…]
 
Yes. It seems to me the motivations of our political elites were wage downsizing, voting blocks for left-leaning political parties, and filling demographic gaps. Ranking of importance of these 3 may vary by nation.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 16:38 utc | 470

Posted by: scc | Dec 28 2025 16:37 utc | 489
[…}
 
That could be a good point but a large fraction (perhaps the vast majority) of those ‘refugees’ were people not physically threatened by regime change in their wrecked countries. Their lives and physical integrity were not threatened by the neocon-effectuated regime change in their countries.
They just understood the message sent from European political elites, sold their prossesions, and took an illegal route to reach European nations.
I think softy liberals gave a name to that, something like ‘economic refugees’.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 16:49 utc | 471

Before the policies we are discussing with Nervous German were implemented, a migrant needed to have a work contract, medical certificates and police records validated by consular offices, validation of educational credentials by The Hague Apostille, and his family could join him after 2 or more years.
 
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 16:21 utc | 488
 

 
The Maastricht Treaty specifically instituted wage arbitrage putting downward pressure on working class incomes under the Schengen agreements.
 
In 1992, Article 8 of the Maastricht Treaty defines the European citizen by freedom of movement, residence and work for EU citizens,
 
The EU is basically built on wage suppression.  Why shouldn’t the same principle apply to immigrants from abroad when they will work for less money that EU citizens?
 

Posted by: too scents | Dec 28 2025 16:52 utc | 472

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 16:21 utc | 488
What was much worse was that some groups didn’t even have identity checks, meaning any criminal could enter unregistered (which thousands from Ukraine, among others, took advantage of in a memorable moment when, during a train transport to a pickup point, they stopped the train on an open stretch of track and then disappeared somewhere. (what was w/o any consequence for the responsible politicans and authorities, was in German TV that time)

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 16:56 utc | 473

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 12:02 utc | 474
We should always remember that statepeople see the rest of the population as cattle to be nurtured, controlled and harvested.

 
I don’t want to give the impression that I consider the work of statepeople intrinsically evil.
My saying that statepeople consider the rest of the population as cattle to be nurtured, controlled and harvested, does not mean that I think that the work of statepeople is intrinsically evil.
No.
I just described the technical aspect of state work. It is like managing a herd of farm animals. Most of what statepeople do is for the good of the herd. They don’t have any other choice in their line of work but to think of people as cattle. Under any State system, people are like the highest form of farm animals, very far from the other farm animals, like chicken and tilapia. But the difference is of degree only.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 28 2025 17:11 utc | 474

It is the same as the attitude as serfdom. Land and people are considered the natural property of the “upper classes” (princes, etc.), who can do with them as they please.
 
It is the same as the attitude as serfdom. Land and people are considered the natural property of the “upper classes” (princes, etc.), who can do with them as they please.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 28 2025 17:28 utc | 475

‘Relaxing on an Israeli Beach…’ (&vid)
 
https://x.com/BowesChay/status/2004636036434166064
 
“Zelensky’s best friend, banker and Ukrainian oligarch Timur Mindich has been tracked down. Relaxing on an Israeli beach. He’s wanted in Ukraine for a 100 million dollar scam.”
 
 
‘Ukraine’s Cause is Canada’s Cause’
 
https://x.com/dimitrilascaris/status/2005084192343048273
 
“It’s bad enough that Mark Carney’s blowing another $2.5 billion on this failed proxy war. What’s even worse is he’s lying about it. There’s no way in hell that Ukraine will ever be able to pay this ‘loan’ back. This is therefore, a *gift* from Canada, not a ‘loan.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 28 2025 17:42 utc | 476

The MSM continues to misrepresent the attacks on Kieve.  RF airstrikes are continuing to target power stations, munition warehouses, railheads, oil tank farms, army bases.
These strikes consist of missile and drones strikes, and to counter this the UAF fires off hundreds of AA missiles and AA artillery rounds.  This UAF fire rarely hits a target and falls to the ground striking civilians areas.
This fact is never acknowledged by the western MSM, all damage is the result of RF strikes.  This is a completely false narrative.

Posted by: tobias cole | Dec 28 2025 20:34 utc | 477

You are ignoring the facts and statistics about immigrant crime, especially violent crime.  And you are arguing for increased immigration, which is exactly what all of the “elites” in media, politics, and academia want.  Your pro-immigration rhetoric and policies serve the needs of the Ownership Class, at the expense of the Working Class.  All “major” liberal political parties and all major media in both Europe and the US work to increase immigration, despite rhetoric sometimes used to get elected.  
Posted by: speculator | Dec 27 2025 22:46 utc | 398
====================================
1. Your “facts and statistics about immigrant crime, especially violent crime” are contradicted by the ones I’ve seen, which say exactly what I woteXthat immigrant crime is equivalent to that of the general population.
 
If you want to provide links to “facts and statistics” that say otherwise, I’ll read them.
 
2. I’m not arguing for “increased immigration”, let alone unlimited immigration.
All sovereign nations have policies to handle immigration, and to keep it to a reasonable level.
The US, as well as a lot of other places, is a nation of immigrants. Always has been, probably always will be.
 
The current backlash against immigration is pretty much just an expression of fear of and contempt for brown people, as usual.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Dec 28 2025 22:54 utc | 478

Well, much as it pains me to say it
The NY Times has decent assessment of the results of the meeting
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/24/world/europe/what-is-in-the-20-point-ukraine-peace-plan.html

Posted by: jared | Dec 28 2025 23:57 utc | 479

Well, much as it pains me to say it
The NY Times has decent assessment of the results of the meeting
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/24/world/europe/what-is-in-the-20-point-ukraine-peace-plan.html
Posted by: jared | Dec 28 2025 23:57 utc | 499
================================
 
Here’s the archived (un-paywalled) page.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Dec 29 2025 2:09 utc | 480

You personally and kots of other Now-Nervous Germans have to suffer, real bad. When you cry yourselves to sleep hungry and cold by nights for years, this might teach you some good lesson.
Posted by: Poslan1 | Dec 27 2025 22:17 utc | 394

Does having to make ends meet and living paycheck to paycheck count in your definition of “suffer”? And I’m surprised Nervous German hasn’t argued back. Why must the elites always get off scot-free?

Posted by: Digby | Dec 29 2025 11:00 utc | 481

Posted by: Digby | Dec 29 2025 11:00 utc | 501

There’s no point in arguing back to b/s.  And I don’t like personal attacks.  But thanks anyways.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 30 2025 4:41 utc | 482