News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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December 19, 2025
Ukraine Open Thread 2025-291
News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
Comments
The EU just couldn’t resist it. They wanted to break the record for ‘the longest suicide note in history’. 90 billion euros “only to be paid back when Russia pays repperations to Ukraine” i.e. never. This at a time when industry is tanking, social services cut, and forecasts for global warming are reaching terrorism levels. Unfortunately they chickened out of stealing Russian funds, which would have introduced certainty into the collapse of the EU. But it’s almost assured anyway. Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Dec 19 2025 8:39 utc | 1 They will support ukraine by paying large portion of the budget until trump’s term is over. Things will be easier once democrats come to power. Posted by: sonsabah | Dec 19 2025 9:14 utc | 2 I’d sue any bank or fund where I held stock that would touch/buy this loan Posted by: Newbie | Dec 19 2025 9:21 utc | 3 Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Dec 19 2025 8:39 utc | 1
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 19 2025 9:26 utc | 4 A bit of context: Posted by: Exile | Dec 19 2025 9:36 utc | 5 Machine translated from the Berliner Zeitung:
Posted by: too scents | Dec 19 2025 9:38 utc | 6 Michael Hudson in 2021 said Germany’sEconomy was the target by the US. I think it later was claimed that this was based on a fake RAND report. But I dont know if Hudson confirms that he had relied on a false source. Does anybody at the bar know some more recent analysis of that? Posted by: petergrfstrm | Dec 19 2025 10:18 utc | 7 Latest hard facts of the Ukraine funding scheme.
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2025 10:22 utc | 8 Ukraine and World Affairs: Weekly Update, 19th December 2025: May be Useful to Some: Ukraine and World Affairs: Weekly Update Posted by: The Busker | Dec 19 2025 10:36 utc | 9 Video clip in English:
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 19 2025 10:47 utc | 10 It seems that Europe, the USA and the so-called West in general are close to or have passed the situation described in this video. It kind of explains the aggression exhibited by certain countries in our current timeline. Debt is a cruel master. Payment seems to require a lot of blood and (attempted) conquest. The Ukrainian Gold was sent almost immediately to the USA for ‘safekeeping’ by the coup government in 2014. It looks like a conquest without having to invade. They took the Venezuelan gold without even having to change the government (just pretend change) Etc. Etc. Etc. Canada probably made a smart move by getting rid of its gold reserves. Conquest would not have such immediate returns for the conqueror. How did Hitler fund a huge military when Germany was broke? Posted by: Philly_r | Dec 19 2025 11:01 utc | 11 Apparently the 90 billion Euros is guaranteed by EU taxpayers. Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2025 11:04 utc | 12 If the EU Commission are so disappointed then resignations en masse to express their views. Posted by: jpc | Dec 19 2025 11:10 utc | 13 Video clip in English:
https://t.me/rtnews/126203 Posted by: pinche | Dec 19 2025 11:13 utc | 14 Belgium was willing to confiscate the Russian cash, IF the EU would indemnify them against the legal and other consequences. The EU refused. So much for European solidarity. Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Dec 19 2025 11:19 utc | 15 @pinche | Dec 19 2025 11:13 utc | 14
Being from Ukraine is not a crime. She is illegally punished for being against the war, the corruption, the tyranny. Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 19 2025 11:19 utc | 16 Guardian editorial last night.
Oh dear, what a pity. Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Dec 19 2025 11:23 utc | 17 “We have build a War in Europe and Europe is paying for it !” The USA. Posted by: Savonarole | Dec 19 2025 11:34 utc | 18 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Dec 19 2025 11:23 utc | 17 Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Dec 19 2025 11:34 utc | 19 Posted by: English Outsider | Dec 19 2025 11:36 utc | 20 Lol in one newspaper (luckily I don’t remember which) they were musing about the possibility that taking Russia money now or in the future may be against some international laws but then, immediately, they concluded that Russia is the one that breaks international laws so they need not worry. Even now they ride high on a white moral horse. Posted by: Avtonom | Dec 19 2025 11:46 utc | 21 Nobody believes that the Russians are going to attack Western Europe, but they have made it clear that they have some sort of claim to the territories directly adjacent, namely the former Soviet states with their large ethnic Russian populations. Posted by: Noam A Larkey | Dec 19 2025 11:47 utc | 22 The Belgian PM exposes Politico for the pro-war propaganda rag that it is. Beautiful.
https://x.com/battleforeurope/status/2001961604372709844 Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2025 11:48 utc | 23 All wars are bankers wars. Debt is slavery. Enslaving the eurotards with a war on the edge… Posted by: Asian Frog | Dec 19 2025 12:02 utc | 24 “The politicians, from Merz downwards, know their political survival depends on their persuading the voters the Russians intend to attack./Posted by: English Outsider | Dec 19 2025 11:36 utc | 20” Posted by: Asian Frog | Dec 19 2025 12:10 utc | 25 Jeffrey Sachs: An Open Letter to Chancellor Merz – Security Is Indivisible and History Matters German deceit taken apart here in 20 mins Posted by: Don Firineach | Dec 19 2025 12:12 utc | 26 Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2025 11:48 utc | 23 Posted by: scc | Dec 19 2025 12:12 utc | 27 This article: https://en.topwar.ru/275353-v-rade-ukrainy-schitajut-nedostatochnym-vydelennogo-es-kredita-v-90-mlrd-evro.html makes some thoughtful points, the first being that the loan is proposed to be spread over two years, but:
There are also some sceptical voices in Ukraine itself:
Overall, some decent coverage covering several aspects of Ukrainian reactions. Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 19 2025 12:12 utc | 28 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 19 2025 12:12 utc | 28 Posted by: Avtonom | Dec 19 2025 12:19 utc | 29
Yes, but there is one more thing Outsider. Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 19 2025 12:22 utc | 30
Hudson knows that, too. Now:
I’d put it like this: Merz does indeed follow interests. They barely happen to be German interests. Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 13:05 utc | 31 #31 — sorry, I botched that Lord’s name: Hastings Ismay, 1st Baron Ismay. “Lord Ismay was the first Secretary General of NATO.” Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 13:09 utc | 32 If Hitler and his Nazis were the ziofascist bankers creatures who destroyed Germany, as a proxy against Russia with ww2; just as Shelenskii and the neonazis are destroying Ukraine this time – then vdl and Merck are the ziofascist bankers molls installed to fuck up Germany again! Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 19 2025 13:13 utc | 33 https://gospanews.net/en/2025/10/31/zelensky-bought-luxurious-ranch-in-the-us-as-ukrainians-begin-to-rebel-vs-recruitments-of-cannon-fodder-2-videos/ Posted by: snake | Dec 19 2025 13:15 utc | 34 Referring to b’s recent post that Russia now feels threatened: so many times Russia has reacted to Western provocations and escalations with stern warnings of consequences, which turned out to be bluffs. The bluffs get called, Russia doesn’t respond, and a chorus of alternative media praises it as “restraint.” Alexander Mercouris keeps calling deep missile strikes an “actual Russian red line”–no it isn’t, since it isn’t enforced. Small wonder NATO capitals have internalized that they can wage war on the Russian Federation (at least for a little bit) with impunity for themselves. As a consequence, that danger is greater than ever. Thanks Vlad, on behalf of all of us; real smooth move to squander Russian deterrence. Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Dec 19 2025 13:20 utc | 35
I think Putin’s 2018 reelection announcement on Russia aiming to become one of the Global Top 5 economies by the year 2024 sent icy shivers back the Empire’s spine.
Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 13:23 utc | 36 Denmark’s Mette Frederiksen said it was
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Dec 19 2025 13:26 utc | 37 Michael Hudson in 2021 said Germany’s economy was the target by the US. Posted by: financial matters | Dec 19 2025 13:34 utc | 38 Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 13:23 utc | 36 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Dec 19 2025 13:35 utc | 39 The silent but obvious America/EU strategy: America/EU must NEVER recognize Russia’s declared demands. Posted by: Fredrick | Dec 19 2025 13:41 utc | 40 Why Should Americans Die For European Tyranny? by Tyler Durden Friday, Dec 19, 2025 – 06:30 AM Posted by: frithguild | Dec 19 2025 13:50 utc | 41 Russia should perhaps propose a “deal” to the West: you confiscate Russian assets and make whatever you want from it (including damaging the financial system) and we take all your assets in Russia. Posted by: scc | Dec 19 2025 13:54 utc | 42 “So in PPP terms, the “top-5 economy” line was not delusional Kremlin poetry. It was already half true before anyone fired a shot. / Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 13:23 utc | 36” Posted by: Asian Frog | Dec 19 2025 13:57 utc | 43
ROFL! — Regarding the PPP quip straight from ChatGPT (because I was too lazy to google tables and compare and write something myself), it is fair to call it half-true, considering the bureautard beancounters’ one and only true metric: nominal GDP. Nice pun btw: eurobucks. You understand how it works. No euros without U.S. credit. Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 14:10 utc | 44 Posted by: scc | Dec 19 2025 13:54 utc | 42 Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2025 14:30 utc | 45 Posted by: sonsabah | Dec 19 2025 9:14 utc | 2 Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Dec 19 2025 14:32 utc | 46
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2025 14:35 utc | 47 Sean Foo Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 19 2025 14:37 utc | 48 Strange, I posted a news report from a Ukrainian outlet about demonstrators blocking the main highway in Zhytomir province which seemed to post OK and appeared here, refresh the page and it has disappeared. Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 19 2025 14:39 utc | 49
There are some spam filters at work here. Maybe the HTML you inadvertently pasted (normal paste behavior) was too messy or contained links to some Ukrop propaganda sites. Try pasting to Notepad or Textedit as plain text and pasting that again here; or try right-click → Paste without formatting. Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 14:45 utc | 50
Seppuku would have it over with in just a blink and everybody could finally move on. But EU prefers doing itself a slow-motion death by a thousand cuts. The agony! Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 14:57 utc | 51 Britkraina attacked another tanker in the Mediterranean sea. Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2025 15:25 utc | 52 As much of the West tries to destroy the family unit – Putin backs the family unit. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 19 2025 15:28 utc | 53 Some short posts quoted from X, via a scolding ZH article:
Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 15:29 utc | 54 Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 15:29 utc | 54 Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Dec 19 2025 15:38 utc | 55 Britkraina *** Posted by: frithguild | Dec 19 2025 15:40 utc | 56
Interest rate is a pretty close keyword, more precisely they will very probably handle it by increased inflation – please refer to my comment #338 in the weekly review thread, which digests a recent Handelsblatt op-ed preparing the masses for the new policy (h/t to Exile). But yes, we trapped euro citizens will foot the “interest”, as always. Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 15:47 utc | 57 There are some simple numbers that seem to be unavailable Posted by: Hot Carl | Dec 19 2025 15:48 utc | 58 A fierce powerful predator is very dangerous when cornered. Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Dec 19 2025 14:32 utc | 46 Posted by: rk | Dec 19 2025 15:48 utc | 59 There’s a fine line between winning and losing; while policies and actions may appear similar, there are distinct differences in motivation and ability. Posted by: Markw | Dec 19 2025 15:51 utc | 60 Russian active defense posture in Ukraine, combined together with ineffective/inefficient and rushed Nato forward deployments with no strategy, logistical backing and lack of heavy weapons (EU/Nato is all-in on FPV drones, because that’s all their weak industry can manufacture, but Russia is getting to par or surpassing it now) now fully funded by EU is relatively speaking a winning proposition for Russia and losing for EU/Nato. Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2025 16:02 utc | 61 If Hitler and his Nazis were the ziofascist bankers creatures who destroyed Germany, as a proxy against Russia with ww2; just as Shelenskii and the neonazis are destroying Ukraine this time – then vdl and Merck are the ziofascist bankers molls installed to fuck up Germany again! Posted by: CJ | Dec 19 2025 16:02 utc | 62 It looks like our leaders just gambled the family country estate on one game of cards.
Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 19 2025 16:03 utc | 63 Posted by: CJ | Dec 19 2025 16:02 utc | 62 Posted by: Caveman | Dec 19 2025 16:04 utc | 64 Britain’s Ukraine Gamble Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 19 2025 16:10 utc | 66
Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Dec 19 2025 16:14 utc | 68 Posted by: CJ | Dec 19 2025 16:02 utc | 62 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 19 2025 16:17 utc | 69 Posted by: Caveman | Dec 19 2025 16:04 utc | 64 Posted by: xor | Dec 19 2025 16:28 utc | 70 Sorry, had to be: Posted by: CJ | Dec 19 2025 16:02 utc | 62 Posted by: xor | Dec 19 2025 16:29 utc | 71 Britkraina *** Posted by: frithguild | Dec 19 2025 16:31 utc | 72 SA: MI6 Warns Europe Must Prepare For War With Russia Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 19 2025 16:36 utc | 73 Posted by: xor | Dec 19 2025 16:29 utc | 72 Posted by: Caveman | Dec 19 2025 16:37 utc | 74 The Oligarchs Part 1: How One Powerful Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 19 2025 16:48 utc | 75 Yes, as expected .. “they found the money”. To be fair, I was almost sure that they will take the frozen assets and in the process destroy their economies , but they found a “workaround”, as expected. It seems that the frozen asset part was still a bit too “dangerous” this time. Posted by: JamesBond | Dec 19 2025 16:54 utc | 76 If Frederiksen is a “Jew surname” then just about every Norwegian, Swede, and Dane is a Jew. Posted by: malenkov | Dec 19 2025 16:55 utc | 77 Meanwhile “Ukraine” (read: the British) attacked a tanker in the Med carrying Russian crude. Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 19 2025 16:58 utc | 78 CrossTalk: Preparing For War Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 19 2025 16:59 utc | 79 Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 19 2025 16:58 utc | 79 Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2025 17:01 utc | 80 CJ is full of crap … Are you ready for the ‘b’-Bar challenge? Posted by: Nothingburgers | Dec 19 2025 17:20 utc | 82 I think there’s a solution to the frozen asset issue that Putin should trigger. He should make an official offer as a treaty to invest the assets in the US. This would drive a wedge between the US and EU and , I think, make life very difficult for the EU. Perhaps Putin could fund a Bering Straits tunnel, for example. It’s not all bad for Russia, I heard they got Western companies property in Russia at bargain basement prices. Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 19 2025 17:21 utc | 83 just about every Norwegian, Swede, and Dane is a Jew. Posted by: frithguild | Dec 19 2025 17:28 utc | 84 @ Nothingburgers | Dec 19 2025 17:20 utc | 83 Posted by: robin | Dec 19 2025 17:37 utc | 85 Eighthman@84…..ah, yes, a new target for the Britkrainians, just what the world needs…… Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 19 2025 17:43 utc | 86
Ah but this isnt warfare. There is no state of war and the civilians aren’t fighting back. Its terrorism, and on such a tiny scale as to be irrelevant. The British retards can hit only a tiny number of the so called shadow fleet. I can almost here the absolutely twats including the new nazi descendant head in MI6 saying ‘pay attention to us! Pay attention to us! We are Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 19 2025 17:52 utc | 87 The EU bigwig monsters continue to rob EU citizens – Europe is f*cked. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Dec 19 2025 17:59 utc | 88 The EU should just admit that it’s a gift, rather than a loan, as the repayment criteria (that Ukraine wins the war and Russia agrees to pay reparations) are vanishingly unlikely . Posted by: Dave G | Dec 19 2025 18:01 utc | 89 *** The cumulative effect of these tanker attacks is somewhere between 0 and fuck all. *** Posted by: frithguild | Dec 19 2025 18:03 utc | 90 Posted by: malenkov | Dec 19 2025 16:55 utc | 78 Posted by: duck n cover | Dec 19 2025 18:04 utc | 91 Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 19 2025 16:48 utc | 76 Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Dec 19 2025 18:20 utc | 92 No marine insurer will insure and no ship owner will ship without insurance. No court will offer any relief that can be enforced. Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 19 2025 18:25 utc | 93 Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 19 2025 13:05 utc | 31 Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Dec 19 2025 18:27 utc | 94
None of the shadow fleet get their insurance from Lloyd’s. It doesn’t work, that was the point I was making. This is more flailing desperation from military ‘intelligence’ agencies that have run out of actual ideas. I am mocking them, if it needs to be more explicit, just as history will. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 19 2025 18:31 utc | 95 the economic picture problem EU must deal with Posted by: Jo | Dec 19 2025 18:36 utc | 96 Posted by: Jo | Dec 19 2025 18:36 utc | 97 Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2025 18:42 utc | 97 @unimperator | Dec 19 2025 17:01 utc | 81 Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Dec 19 2025 18:48 utc | 98 Let’s see if this goes through now, it’s the core part of a post made earlier, that posted then got memory-holed. Now using the plain text method suggested by @ Nervous German:
https://regionews.ua/ukr/news/zhitomirshchina/1766145237-trasa-zhitomir-kiyiv-zablokovana-lyudi-vimagayut-kompensatsiyu-za-poshkodzheni-budinki (via translation add-on.) Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 19 2025 18:52 utc | 99 OK, so there’s a learning experience, copy-pasting from plain text with paragraph breaks deletes the paragraph breaks [sigh] Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 19 2025 18:54 utc | 100 |
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