Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 2, 2025
NATO Thinks Of ‘Pre-emptive Strikes’ Against Russia To ‘Defend’ Against Something That Did Not Happen

As it is becoming obvious that Ukraine is losing in the proxy war against Russia, the ideas European governments are are throwing around are getting more crazy.

Some are now eager to ‘pre-emptively’ attack Russia in ‘retaliation’ for alleged ‘hybrid attacks’ against European countries. Those ‘hybrid attacks’ are mostly pure fantasies.

Politico was first to report this nonsense:

Europe thinks the unthinkable: Retaliating against RussiaPolitico, Nov 27 2025
Countries are looking at joint offensive cyber operations and surprise military drills as Moscow steps up its campaign to destabilize NATO allies.

Russia’s drones and agents are unleashing attacks across NATO countries and Europe is now doing what would have seemed outlandish just a few years ago: planning how to hit back.

Ideas range from joint offensive cyber operations against Russia, and faster and more coordinated attribution of hybrid attacks by quickly pointing the finger at Moscow, to surprise NATO-led military exercises, according to two senior European government officials and three EU diplomats.

“The Russians are constantly testing the limits — what is the response, how far can we go?” Latvian Foreign Minister Baiba Braže noted in an interview. A more “proactive response is needed,” she told POLITICO. “And it’s not talking that sends a signal — it’s doing.”

What are the ‘hybrid attacks’ in question?

Russian drones have buzzed Poland and Romania in recent weeks and months, while mysterious drones have caused havoc at airports and military bases across the continent. Other incidents include GPS jamming, incursions by fighter aircraft and naval vessels, and an explosion on a key Polish rail link ferrying military aid to Ukraine.

The idea to ‘pre-empivly’ attack Russia comes from an Italian defense paper:

Last week, Italian Defense Minister Guido Crosetto slammed the continent’s “inertia” in the face of growing hybrid attacks and unveiled a 125-page plan to retaliate. In it, he suggested establishing a European Center for Countering Hybrid Warfare, a 1,500-strong cyber force, as well as military personnel specialized in artificial intelligence.

To me that looks like someone is seeking additional NATO payments. Three days later a Italian NATO general furthered the idea:

Nato considers being ‘more aggressive’ against Russia’s hybrid warfare (archived) – Financial Times, Nov 30 025
Alliance’s top military officer says it could become proactive in dealing with Moscow threat

Nato is considering being “more aggressive” in responding to Russia’s cyber attacks, sabotage and airspace violations, according to the alliance’s most senior military officer.

Admiral Giuseppe Cavo Dragone told the Financial Times that the western military alliance was looking at stepping up its response to hybrid warfare from Moscow.

Some diplomats, especially from eastern European countries, have urged Nato to stop being merely reactive and hit back. Such a response would be easiest for cyber attacks where many countries have offensive capabilities but would be less easy for sabotage or drone intrusions.

Dragone said that a “pre-emptive strike” could be considered a “defensive action”, but added: “It is further away from our normal way of thinking and behaviour.”

He added: “Being more aggressive compared with the aggressivity of our counterpart could be an option. [The issues are] legal framework, jurisdictional framework, who is going to do this?”

Admiral Dragone is using Orwellian speech when he seems obviously lobbying for 1,500 NATO paid jobs in his home country.

One problem with this is that there is little evidence of any ‘hybrid attacks’.

Ursula von der Leyen was caught outright lying when her staff claimed that alleged Russian GPS distortion had prolonged a flight she was taking.

The alleged intrusion of Russian planes into Estonian airspace had turned out to be an innocent passage near an uninhabited island far from the coast.

The Dutch magazine Trouw has found that the myriad of recent drone panics had little to do with Russia.

Analysis sixty drone incidents in Europe: a lot of panic and little evidence (archived) – Trouw.nl

Machine translation:

Using the Dronewatch platform, Trouw mapped around sixty incidents involving drones in eleven European countries. These took place in the last three months. The conclusion: a lot of confusion and ambiguity and regular false alarms. For Russian involvement, as some authorities and experts point out, in the vast majority of cases no hard evidence has been provided.

In about forty incidents, the origin is still unclear or no evidence has been found for drones in the airspace. An example is Oslo, where drone reports shut down air traffic at the end of September, affecting thousands of travelers. The police did not find any confirmation afterwards that drones were actually flying. The same was true for reports at the airport of Swedish Gothenburg in early November.

In at least fourteen cases, it turned out to be something completely different afterwards. For example, people in Belgium mistook (small) planes and helicopters for drones, while the flying objects in South Limburg and Danish Billund were stars. The Norwegian police concluded that a suspicious ‘drone’ near an oil platform in the North Sea was probably a ship.

A number of times it has been established that drone flights were the work of a hobbyist or that it later turned out to be a tourist. In an incident in Warsaw where a drone flew over government buildings, Polish police picked up a Ukrainian and a 17-year-old girl from Belarus. There is no evidence of espionage.

This picture was published by media as showing alleged damage by an alleged explosion along a Polish rail line


bigger

According to the Polish outlet Super Express, a train driver travelling near the Mikołajówka (Mika) station informed dispatchers at 07:39 about irregularities in the rail infrastructure.

A preliminary inspection revealed that roughly one meter of track had been destroyed, forcing the train to stop. No passengers or crew members were injured.

Prime Minister Donald Tusk later underscored the gravity of the incident on X, stating:

“Blowing up the rail track on the Warsaw–Lublin route is an unprecedented act of sabotage targeting directly the security of the Polish state and its civilians. This route is also crucially important for delivering aid to Ukraine. We will catch the perpetrators, whoever they are.”

Nothing was ‘blown up’. What can be seen in the picture is not the result of an explosion. For comparison you might want to watch this attempt (vid) of using C-4 explosive to cut an I-beam. It is a VERY violent process. But the track ballast under the broken rail as well as the sleepers seem undisturbed and undamaged. The incident was most likely a brittle crack caused by fatigue. The rail was probably not firmly fixed on the sleepers and bent when trains were running over it. When that happens one time too many rails will break.

The alleged ‘hybrid attacks’ by Russia are over-hyped normal incidents with little if any relation to Russia. To use these as an excuse for ‘pre-emptive strikes’, be it cyber or whatnot, hardly makes such ‘defensive’.

And what, by the way, is Admiral Dragone planing to do if Russia hits back?

Comments

The largest nuclear warhead ever detonated was tested by the Soviet Union. 50 megatons. The converted Oscar class carries six 100 megaton warheads. The torpedos have been test and that will now be fully commissioned and on station. The first of a purpose built line was launched a month or two back. That line of subs will also carry six 100 megaton warheads. 
 
The waves those things will create will sweep the earth down to bedrock, drowning the rats in their ratholes. That converted Oscar class I suspect is stationed to take out London. 
Russia has been attacked by Europe many times over the last millenia. If they attack again, it will be their last.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 10:33 utc | 401

🇺🇸The mysterious misspell on Secretary of War Hegseth’s card printed at the White House
❓Is it really just misspell? Or it is truth about which is forbidden to talk?

https://t.me/ukraine_watch/51810
 
See and judge for yourself

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 3 2025 10:42 utc | 402

Zelensky is returning home

🇺🇦🇺🇸Zelensky and Witkoff’s meeting in Brussels is cancelled
Zelensky’s planned meeting with Witkoff and Kushnir in Brussels has been canceled, Euronews journalist Alex Raofoglu has reported on social media.
After talks with Putin in the Kremlin, the Americans “promised” that they would go directly to Washington.
The plane of the Trump representative has not stopped in Europe and has already flown to Canada.
Earlier it was reported that the American delegation would meet with Zelensky after the meeting with Putin. The reason for the cancellation was not specified.
Nobody wants to meet with the servants.

https://t.me/ukraine_watch/51813
 
 

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 3 2025 10:45 utc | 403

Johan Kaspar | Dec 3 2025 10:21 utc | 403
 
I do not read Simplicius but the quote is very similar to my thoughts. I doubt Russia intends to annex the hole of Ukraine. Russia does want a neutral buffer state. In time, they may form a union similar to the Russia Belarus union.
 
To counter the Bandera tendency, as many neutral regions as possibly need to be left in the rump Ukraine. If the Brits keep up their attacks on shipping, Russia may well take Odessa. Russia would rather not do that as any bridgehead will cost blood, but if it has to, Russia will do it.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 10:49 utc | 404

Back in the day I couldn’t wait to read MOA, because it was informative and I often learned something.
 
For several years now the comments are generally garbage, maybe 1 or 2 out of a hundred are genuinely worthwhile reading. The same 10-20 people commenting 10 or more times on every thread, saying the same thing everyday. I didn’t count, but I suspect that a single poster is responsible for approximately 10% of the comments in this thread.
 
WTF is wrong with you people?
 
WTF is wrong with me? I keep coming here hoping that I’ll experience the old MOA, and I leave frustrated every time, and yet I keep coming back. My guess is all the old commenters have been run off by the serial spammers posting here.

Posted by: David F | Dec 3 2025 11:39 utc | 405

Posted by: David F | Dec 3 2025 11:39 utc | 408
——————
Irrespective of the posters comments, you can find here information that does not exist in the mainstream media or that would ask you painful search to recover.
 
Be happy

Posted by: scc | Dec 3 2025 11:43 utc | 406

I’m not going to start spamming up the thread, but to be clear, I was not referring to “b’s” posts, but only to the comment section.

Posted by: David F | Dec 3 2025 11:49 utc | 407

David F | Dec 3 2025 11:39 utc | 408
 
I think this is because more and more people are linking to things they read elsewhere, even if they are already here, because they don’t read here first. So a lot of things are posted multiple times, resulting in over 500 posts, 400 of which are duplicate posts.
On the other hand, some people may not have access to everything. For example, I can’t view most videos on YouTube properly and I can’t set up an account on Telegram because I don’t receive the verification email with the code and the QR code workaround doesn’t work. I have no idea why. But a lot is blocked here anyway. That’s Europe for you.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 11:55 utc | 408

Posted by: David F | Dec 3 2025 11:49 utc | 410
————————-
I was addressing exactly the section comments. Many posters give info from sites that are no longer accessible in Europe or from telegram channels.

Posted by: scc | Dec 3 2025 12:02 utc | 409

@ David F | Dec 3 2025 11:39 utc | 408
 
If you controlled the MSM and wanted to stop the alt media info flow, one way to do it would be to pollute every decent comment section available to people looking for the truth.  I suspect we’re see that at the best blogs now.  So you can do what they want – stop coming here for the truth – or you can weed through the 90% bad/redundant posts to find the ones with value.
 
The other thing the oligarchy love to do is to get the plebs fighting amongst themselves.  Too many comment threads descend into something resembling a high school cafeteria food fight..  Either ignore it or enjoy the entertainment value(even if it resembles a Jerry Springer talk show episode).
 
Finally, it’s human nature for people to want to boost their self importance.  Also to fall in love with their own thoughts(guilty as charged!).  A comment section is a bit like life – some good and some bad.  Best to seek the positives and let the negatives slide.

Posted by: EoinW | Dec 3 2025 12:25 utc | 410

David F
 
The world has also changed greatly in the last decade. It has narrowed to the big three backed by pure military power. In that regard, US is now the runt of the three.  Latte sippers whispering sweet nothings? The world is what it is.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 12:27 utc | 411

@David F | Dec 3 2025 11:39 utc | 408
 
If you have something to contribute … show it.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 3 2025 12:28 utc | 412

 EoinW | Dec 3 2025 12:25 utc | 413
 
Truth. A word very much like democracy and gay. How many here sit in on a meeting of the security council at the Kremlin, how many are flys on the wall at similar meetings in China and US.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 12:34 utc | 413

Am starting to think more that the corruption scandal in Brussels is more like of a smoke screen for collapsing Ukraine. Well, scratch that, a collapsing Nato!!
People who said Nato and EU tied their fate at the hip to Kiev regime weren’t wrong.

Scott Bessent said something remarkable on Fox News yesterday. If Russia attacked Europe, he said, the US would… sell us weapons – but no troops. NATO kaput, in other words. Should this not be headline news across Europe? Is it not a sign of EU brain death that it is not?

 

https://x.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1996146585307144312

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 3 2025 12:42 utc | 414

This is a completely childish site, like the entire Western mental kindergarten. Even the English Wikipedia shows that Vladimir is the son of “Shelomova” Shalom-ova, a minor historical detail, but a clear sign that any contact with reality beyond fantasy is unwelcome. Because the question is no the ethnic origin of VP but his ideologuical Position: VP is a zionist like Joe “Iam a zionist” Biden and like Donald Likud Trump

Posted by: Valerio del Bierzo | Dec 3 2025 12:44 utc | 415

EoinW
 
Truth and honesty are entirely different words. The dumb fox called me a liar earlier. That sort of thing is generally projection. I guess if somebody said Russia builds weapons, that could be considered the truth as it is an undisputable fact.
 
Will Putin use those weapons if push comes to shove? I believe he will, others believe he won’t. But on this question, there are no indisputible facts. My belief is Putin is a man who does not bluff.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 12:49 utc | 416

Russian soldiers, Ukrainian soldiers, Europeans, Palestinians, Americans… we all share the same fate: we are cattle, and at best, powerless medieval peasants.

Posted by: Valerio del Bierzo | Dec 3 2025 12:51 utc | 417

unimperator | Dec 3 2025 12:42 utc | 417
 
Its all happening unimperator. I think Europe fucked up big time in trying to hobble or oust Trump. 

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 12:53 utc | 418

Posted by: EoinW | Dec 3 2025 12:25 utc | 413
 
This site is not important enough for anyone to bother spending money to “counter” it. The vast majority of the people in the world aren’t even aware of this site, and nothing discussed here is a threat to the TPTB. Nobody is “subverting” this site.
 
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 3 2025 12:28 utc | 415
 
I often don’t feel I have a worthwhile comment on a given topic, and hence, I refrain from commenting on it, instead of saying the same thing on every thread. IF more people were to act this way we would have here a discussion based upon what b posted that might be interesting and informative.
 
Both of you have been around for a while. Do you really enjoy wading through all the crap trying to find something worth reading?
 

Posted by: David F | Dec 3 2025 12:54 utc | 419

395 Norwegian ..heating…UK proudly announced another Million to help Ukraine with it’s heating problems…sighs. Mind you I got 200£ winter fuel allowance…..

Posted by: Jo | Dec 3 2025 12:54 utc | 420

@David F | Dec 3 2025 11:39 utc | 408
 If you have something to contribute … show it.
 
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 3 2025 12:28 utc | 415
 
_______
 
Surely David F, what with his long familiarity with this site, would know that his complaint belongs on an Open Thread and not here.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 3 2025 13:01 utc | 421

Russian soldiers, Ukrainian soldiers, Europeans, Palestinians, Americans… we all share the same fate: we are cattle, and at best, powerless medieval peasants.
Posted by: Valerio del Bierzo | Dec 3 2025 12:51 utc | 420
No, we are not. Neither the peasants nor the cattle had / have internet access. The former probably could not read and write. The latter probably cannot write even today.   On the other hand…. yes, YES, you are most certainly right.  You are cattle, you are a medieval peasant.
 
You cannot read, you cannot write, you have no Internet access. You cannot post at Moon of Alabama. Obviously.

Posted by: Martina | Dec 3 2025 13:02 utc | 422

The European Union wants to “save Ukraine” and continue the war at the expense of Russia
▪️The board of the European Commission has approved a potential loan for Ukraine at the expense of Russian assets, Ursula von der Leyen said. ▪️Ukraine needs €135 billion by the end of 2027 to continue hostilities and keep the state working. ▪️The expropriation of Russian assets in the EU does not require a compromise, but will be approved by a “qualified majority of votes.” ▪️The European Commission intends to ban the enforcement of foreign court decisions within the EU as part of Russia’s response to the expropriation of assets. ▪️The EC also proposed an alternative to the expropriation of Russian assets in the form of a €90 billion euro loan, which will cover two-thirds of Kyiv’s needs at the expense of Europe.
https://t.me/RVvoenkor/104977

Posted by: unnamed | Dec 3 2025 13:07 utc | 423

The Ukrainian Gambit (1997-, 2008-) sacrificing Ukrainian pawns, was an utterly irresistible temptation for the Anglo-Imperial Zionist oligarchy. And it was a risk-free gamble because VP is a Zionist and prefers to sacrifice thousands of russian soldiers rather than disturb the Anglo-Imperial Zionist oligarchy in its private hunting ground: “Our colonial project” (Vladimir Jabotinsky) founded with the help of the British Empire (1917-) by violent fanatics from Russia and Ukraine under the command of Vladimir Jabotinsky. Vladimir Putin, Vladimir Zelensky, and Vladimir Jabotinsky all come from the same medieval (1033-) ethnicity forged by rabbis: the Polish-Ukrainian Yiddish people.

Posted by: Valerio del Bierzo | Dec 3 2025 13:07 utc | 424

At risk of repeating my self….
What revised proposal was given by ukraine to Russia via US negotiaters in Moscow  ?
 
This is extremly relevent, given the post talks media bias.
 
I want answers,   and i want them now  !

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 3 2025 13:09 utc | 425

@David F | Dec 3 2025 12:54 utc | 422

 I refrain from commenting on it, instead of saying the same thing on every thread. 

This is the second time you are making this comment. You are contradicting yourself and this meta debate does not contribute anything to the topic. Continue like that and it will be understood as noise.
If you want improved signal to noise, contribute signal not noise.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 3 2025 13:14 utc | 426

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 3 2025 9:51 utc | 400
 
Johan –  I find I agree with you on most points that matter but could I put in a word for the Ukrainians?  We can’t dump the shame of this war on them.
 
 The Ukrainians as were elected Zelensky because he stood on a peace platform.  The majority was large everywhere except the Western oblasts.  The Donbass would likely have voted for peace as well had the people there been asked.  The Ukrainians were fooled when they voted for Zelensky.  That isn’t unusual for any of us, being fooled.  Many Americans were fooled dramatically by Obama.  How many of them thought at that time of hope and change that they were voting for a man  who was to cosset the financial interest groups?  That they were voting for a man of peace who was to become the “Drone King”?   Many were later fooled by Trump.   He was another man of peace who blew it.   As for how often we’ve been fooled in England,  it’d take too long to set that out!   The average Ukrainian is no more responsible for the present government in Kiev than am I and my fellows responsible for the actions of Johnson and Starmer.
 
And I’d be most surprised if there were any ordinary voters in Germany who knew what Scholz and Merz, and Merkel before them, were brewing up for the Russians before 2022.  I know and know of none.
 
Not forgetting that the Ukrainians were on a loser long before 2022.  The country was a mess of corruption and bad governance from the ’90’s on, more than likely before.   It had had an ultra-nationalist extremist faction pitchforked into power by the West in 2014.  We have been fostering those elements in Ukraine ever since.  These are not circumstances in which “We the People” get much of a look in when it comes to how their country’s run.  Even less when some of our Western politicians have been, by the sound of it,  quite as ready to gain what profit they can from the corruption as theirs. 
 
And of course the Ukrainians, most of them, are fighting the Russians!   If there’s a war on you don’t sit around debating the whys and wherefores.  It’s a natural reaction for most of us to join up or help as best we can.  The crime is not that the Ukrainians are fighting the war.  The crime is down to our Western politicians who deliberately set that war up
 
Our proxies  have suffered far worse from that war then we have or are likely too.   OK, their ultras and their politicians are revolting.  But set those few aside and the average Ukrainian deserves no reproach.  This war was the biggest politicians’ scam ever.  If we can’t control and see through our own politicians, and that in far more favourable circumstances, how should we expect the Ukrainians to control  and see through theirs?

Posted by: English Outsider | Dec 3 2025 13:23 utc | 427

The European Commission intends to ban the enforcement of foreign court decisions within the EU as part of Russia’s response to the expropriation of assets

Cue a few trillion in financial assets slowly exiting  EU banks. 

Posted by: Exile | Dec 3 2025 13:23 utc | 428

David F | Dec 3 2025 12:54 utc | 422
I generally don’t keep up with the current topic threads anymore. But if all were like you, this place would be like a pub with no beer. Sip a latte and dry your tears then you will feel better.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 13:24 utc | 429

Suspect David F is Hasbara

Posted by: Exile | Dec 3 2025 13:25 utc | 430

Posted by: unnamed | Dec 3 2025 13:07 utc | 426


So they made the loan based with Euroclear assets acting as collateral. 
 
Watch out for major mayhem and fireworks in Eurozone financial systems over the coming year.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 3 2025 13:25 utc | 431

Pentagon has reportedly stopped contact with German defense ministry.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 3 2025 13:28 utc | 432

SMH. Idiots.

Posted by: David F | Dec 3 2025 13:29 utc | 433

Is it possible that the alleged repetition on this site is related more to outstanding issues that form a kind of political loop 
unless and until those issues are resolved the commentariat here are just reinforcing the fact that the extant issues need to be resolved before the debate can move on  

Posted by: Night Tripper | Dec 3 2025 13:30 utc | 434

Video clip:

🇺🇦Ukrainian troops from the encircled Mirnograd garrison are surrendering in groups. The battle is effectively over
These Ukrainian soldiers have made a right choice.

https://t.me/ukraine_watch/51825

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 3 2025 13:34 utc | 435

Potus Pilate and his merrymen are doing the tail between the legs skidadle that is now the established motif of every US , Ziofascist owned, ‘war’ anywhere on the planet!
(And even space!)
 
The fat lady singing ! 
 
 
 
I love the sight and sound of a disorganised trouserless farce retreat – it’s self humiliation, as an excuse to not be chased all the way back to the grotto full of treasure and human meat.
 
 
 
After all how can you ride to the rescue,in the ‘here comes the cavalry’ bs,  if it’s the cavalry itself that is caught by its short and curlies,  where they should not have been in the first place? 
(I don’t know if many USAians even know what curlies are nowadays since they have made the world into prepubescent body hairless paedo worship through Hollywood over the century) 
 
 
Keeping America In, Germany Down and Russia Out – as the Great Gamers of Whitehall and D.C. and every ziofascist Banker global robber barons and their khazarian shapeshifters dynasties – appears to finally have reached its inevitable collapse as the grand strategy.
 
 
The only way to ever ‘take Russia’ as any decent game players would have long realised is not from without or within but by letting it take us and allow us to become them! 
 
 
 
I guess that will come in a century as Europe melts back into its correct EurAsia continental reality.
 
Make sure the kids and grandkids learn Russian and Chinese and real ancient EurAsian history, so they finally understand their onenesss as Eurasians  – not the fake ziominions we have been for a millenia.
 
 
 
Keep the fake cavalry OUT, Germany free to be friends with Russia and we may eventually regain the trust and resources and CHEAP energy that we are deprived of now  in exchange for some USAian ziobastards quadruple priced alternative we have no choice about.
 
 
Dedicating this comment to Dave F  – hope you enjoyed that at least! no apologies for my repetition of my personal opinion.
 
 

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 3 2025 13:38 utc | 436

🇪🇺Ursula von der Leyen has given an ultimatum to the EU countries: either they will sponsor Ukraine from their own budgets, or they will steal Russian assets.

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/166695
 
This looks like the end of the EU to me.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 3 2025 13:43 utc | 437

Khairullin says Ukrainian FPV drone operators are now taking more losses than the infantry. A Rostec engineer claims they have solved the tracking problem for drone control equipment. FAB bombs have a great accuracy of 10-15m.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 3 2025 13:49 utc | 438

No apologies from you are required. 
 
English Outsiders post, your post … you both put into words what I cannot.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 13:49 utc | 439

@ unnamed | Dec 3 2025 13:07 utc | 426
@ unimperator | Dec 3 2025 13:25 utc | 434
@ Norwegian | Dec 3 2025 13:43 utc | 440
 
At the very least, this is going to set up an institutional tug-of-war with the ECB, who are the ones ultimately responsible for managing the consequences for the € currency. I can’t see the Bank standing by while the Union plays what could be aptly called “Russian roulette” with the future of the currency.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 3 2025 13:50 utc | 440

This looks like the end of the EU to me.
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 3 2025 13:43 utc | 440
 
No, ending the EU would be extremely complicated; no one would dare to do that, just think of Brexit.But the question is what the media would say about it, because that could lead to major unrest in all EU countries. The question is, what if not all EU countries participate?(The side issue that expropriation is only possible under the respective national law can be ignored; vdL ignores laws anyway). In any case, this shows how much NATO (and the EU) is in dire straits and how little law applies in the EU/NATO.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 13:55 utc | 441

Kapodistrias | Dec 3 2025 13:49 utc | 443
 
Gidgee. Brings back memories of calculator. When he dropped his head in the thick gidgee, it was game on.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 13:59 utc | 442

Often problem w posts is regurgitation of old news …. covered in posts a few pages before or earlier thread … I have little problem w that … a bit more scanning instead of reading. Many astute bloggers and useful links 😊
 
Scott Bessent’s warning is clear: Europe must defend itself | 28 Sept 2025 |

Scott Bessent insisted earlier this week that a Russian incursion into Nato territory would not trigger US intervention, and that America’s role would be confined to selling arms to Europe.

 

Posted by: Oui | Dec 3 2025 14:02 utc | 443

English Outdider@430……….ah, you get it, Johan, not so much. Perhaps sending Mr Putin some pictures, use Kodak not crayon, showing the faces of the evil politicians that torment them……not sure if it’ll help, Mr Putin knows he’d choke on the words if he ever mumbled England……..
 
Cheers M 
 
….has he ever even mentioned the King and all his meetings with the Dominion minions….uttered a word about the English saying they are at war with Russia…….?
 
 

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 3 2025 14:11 utc | 444

<em>Keeping America In, Germany Down and Russia Out</em>
 
The Founding principle of NATO as the USSR exploded its first atomic weapon.
 
Lord Ismay, NATO, and the Old-New World Order

NATO’s Original Purpose: Double Containment of the Soviet Union and “Resurgent” Germany
 
French Told U.S. that West Germany Could Join NATO as Long as There Was “No Independent Wehrmacht”

Posted by: Oui | Dec 3 2025 14:12 utc | 445

If I were Euroclear I’d be urgently speaking to my lawyers, to see if a court injunction could be obtained, at Belgian national court level, to at least temporarily stay the seizure of the assets, then let the appeals processes play out.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 3 2025 14:19 utc | 446

Unofficially, the bomb would later become known as “Tsar Bomba” and “Kuzka’s mother” (Кузькина мать, Kuz’kina mat’). The name Tsar Bomba (loosely translated as Emperor of Bombs) comes from an allusion to two other Russian historical artifacts.
 
[tested on 30 October 1961 at the Novaya Zemlya site – source Wikipedia]

Posted by: Oui | Dec 3 2025 14:21 utc | 447

Little green man. Read between the lines.London is Putins primary target.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 14:22 utc | 448

412: Get Opera Browser. It has Free VPN wich is good enough to visit ” The Forbidden Sites”….🙋‍♀️

Posted by: Nobody | Dec 3 2025 14:25 utc | 449

Not a Done Deal IMO
 
Belgian PM stands firm against EU plans to use frozen Russian assets |  Brussels Times –  3 Dec 2025 |
 

Von der Leyen said that if the loan plan didn’t pass muster, the bloc could borrow the money on international markets in a scheme underpinned by its long-term budget. The problem here, though, is that it would require the approval of all 27 member countries, and Hungary has consistently blocked aid to Ukraine.

Posted by: Oui | Dec 3 2025 14:29 utc | 450

This looks like the end of the EU to me.Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 3 2025 13:43 utc | 440 No, ending the EU would be extremely complicated; no one would dare to do that, just think of Brexit.But the question is what the media would say about it, because that could lead to major unrest in all EU countries. The question is, what if not all EU countries participate?(The side issue that expropriation is only possible under the respective national law can be ignored; vdL ignores laws anyway). In any case, this shows how much NATO (and the EU) is in dire straits and how little law applies in the EU/NATO.
Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 13:55 utc | 445


The more correct statement would be that rationally it WOULD be the end of the EU, if it weren’t an authoritarian/totalitarian sh#thole. So the strings keeping it together are more control, but even those strings may snap getting too tight. Or they will squeeze the life out of everything.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 3 2025 14:29 utc | 451

@ Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 12:49 utc | 419
Fair enough.  Therefore I’ll suggest that people come here seeking truth, or seeking confirmation that others agree with their opinion.
 
Either way it is different from the MSM telling people how to think.

Posted by: EoinW | Dec 3 2025 14:32 utc | 452

So the strings keeping it together are more control, but even those strings may snap getting too tight. 
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 3 2025 14:29 utc | 455
 
This raises the question, “Who are these strings?” and “Who protects vdL?”

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 14:35 utc | 453

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 13:55 utc | 445
Why do you think the “elites” on both side of the Channel basically botched the Brexit (remember Theresa May ? And Bojo who was like “Brexit is Brexit” and didn’t deliver like at all…)
Because ending the EU is not THAT complicated ; it’s just a bunch of treaties and rulings under a raincoat masquerading as a super state. The EU , how many divisions ? 
Any of the net contributor states (Germany, France, Italy, Nederland ..) triggering the outing clause of Maastritch treaty will basically insta-kill the ECB , don’t forget about the massive amount of junk bonds from every states it has written on it’s balance sheets …
Anyway , this won’t happen yet … as anyone wanting to get out of the EU is basically ejected by the system and/or the media on every EU countries ; remember Romanian “”””elections”””” ? (5 quotes are needed , no less) , but not much is needed.
There is also the possibility of a “palace revolution” , see what the ECB answered to the toxic Ursulla. The real powers behind the scene should have more material on the EU corruption cases than what’s needed to shake the institution from the basement to the rooftop. For now they didn’t loose much … but if they are to, be assured there will be blood. 

Posted by: Savonarole | Dec 3 2025 14:37 utc | 454

The gutter trash like dumb fox and david. Why that type of gutter trash bothers to comment here is beyond me. 
 
Not sure what to say now other than trolls stink of fox shit.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 14:43 utc | 455

… The expropriation of Russian assets in the EU does not require a compromise, but will be approved by a “qualified majority of votes.” 
Posted by: unnamed | Dec 3 2025 13:07 utc | 426
 
And that is not legally compliant under EU law.
So vdL wants to undermine all applicable national and international law. All EU countries should protest this, as it would render all laws obsolete. Worse than a dictatorship.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 14:46 utc | 456

So VDL has made 2 legislative proposals.
 

  • 1  Funding the ukraine debacle further with money from member states.

 This requires unanimity.
Hungary alone can block it, if not others since asking again to throw away another 90 000 000 000 EUR for nothing in return will not be popular.  
 
 

  • 2 Funding the ukraine debacle further with stolen Russian money.

 This requires only a qualified majority (55% representing at least 65% of the population)
 
So option 2 is easier and cost nothing (in the eyes of short-sighted politicians)  
VDL,  a career-criminal  is naturally in favor of theft. 
It’s also worth mentioning  she declared that the risk of having to pay back the money later to Russia is very low.
There has been no precedent in history, not even Hitler’s money got stolen, so this is a reckless and speculative statement.
 
Only a broad-based international court would have uncontested authority to deprive Russia of ownership of its reserves, and no corresponding judicial mechanism is available for that at present. Even though there are dissenting opinions among legal scholars, and grey zones abound in international law, chances are that confiscation would breach international and EU principles on sovereign immunity and on the proportionate and reversible nature of countermeasures.
But forget the unavoidable legal consequences.
If the EU decides to boldly disregard international law, then Russia gets carte blanche  to react how they decide.  
It will not end well.
 
 

Posted by: Ed Bernays | Dec 3 2025 14:49 utc | 457

Posted by: English Outsider | Dec 3 2025 13:23 utc | 430
 
If we can’t control and see through our own politicians, and that in far more favourable circumstances, how should we expect the Ukrainians to control  and see through theirs?

 
My good Anglo-outsider, ukrops did not elect a wily, mediocre, ambitious liar politician posing as a serious person, like here in Westeros those that vote (not me) do.
No.
They elected a Jewish comedian pretending to be a politician in a TV show! Lol! How moronic is that?
Would you elect as Chairman of the Board an actor pretending to be a big shot businessman in a TV show?
Would you have heart surgery with an actor pretending to be a surgeon in a TV show?
‘f course not, ’cause you’re not a complete moron, as these ukrops are.
It could only have happened in the Ukraines.
But I’m going to say something about these people to kind of exculpating them a little bit: they lost their moral compass together with their communist ideology and they didn’t have the luck to have a Putin come to rescue them from their stupidity and depravity.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 3 2025 14:49 utc | 458

Johan Kaspar@403…….”saving the female population”……
 
…….the reply I had composed was so fucking rude, I thought the better if it……
 
…… perhaps someone more cultured could compose something more, hmmm, polite…….I am a Garden Gnome in case you had not heard ….plastic so they say ….
 
……do read between the lines 
 
Cheers M 

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 3 2025 14:53 utc | 459

Savonarole@458…….you are looking at Brexit from a financial point of view perhaps some sovereignty shit……but it was never about that, it was about the SMO and the war that would ensue, we’re almost there. Notice how England is openly at war with Russia but Mr Putin can only threaten the EU, England is not part of the EU……why does he fail repeatedly to mention England, while the rats at Whitehall chew holes in his ships……..??????
 
Cheers M 

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 3 2025 15:02 utc | 460

@unimperator | Dec 3 2025 12:42 utc | 417
I don’t think the US has failed to make sure everybody in 
leading roles in Europe is in their hands and the US may 
be comforted that their inserted traitors are doing such an effective job in carrying out their tasks to do what the US wants done while they  may pretend they are less involved.

  • They are all like Udo Ulfkotte before he blew the whistle

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Dec 3 2025 15:03 utc | 461

Ed Bernays | Dec 3 2025 14:49 utc | 461
This would effectively override the national constitutions of all member states (both variants). The Commission does not have this authority. Any EU parliamentarian who agrees to this is violating their own constitution. Consequently, the entire action is illegal and invalid. Any bank can refuse (and will do so if it does not want to be held liable later).

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 15:04 utc | 462

But I’m going to say something about these people to kind of exculpating them a little bit: they lost their moral compass together with their communist ideology and they didn’t have the luck to have a Putin come to rescue them from their stupidity and depravity.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 3 2025 14:49 utc | 462
 
This has nothing to do with communist ideology. Expulsion, blackmail, and constitutional violations are apparently even more prevalent in “democratic” societies.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 15:07 utc | 463

Slovak Gov’t Mulls Suing EU Over Planned Ban of Russian Gas Imports
 

The Slovak government has discussed the possibility of filing a lawsuit against the European Union over Brussels’ decision to ban Russian gas imports to the bloc, according to a document published on the Slovak cabinet website on Wednesday.
 

In August, Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico instructed the cabinet to study the possibility of appealing the decision of the European Commission to impose a ban on Russian gas imports if Slovakia does not receive an exemption or compensation.

https://sputnikglobe.com/20251203/slovak-govt-mulls-suing-eu-over-planned-ban-of-russian-gas-imports-1123221235.html

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 15:13 utc | 464

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 3 2025 15:02 utc | 464
 Note than the Russians top level don’t even speak about UK or EU nor with the UK or the EU; the speak about NATO and look at “the puppet master”. The only ones bothering to say something about those cunt are Medvedev to troll and taunt them and Zhakarova ; to teach them some history lessons.
 
The US didn’t even bother to send Wittcoff to speak with the Europeans neither, it was little marco’s job … and the UK was not even on his list.
 
What’s the UK now from the Russian POV ? A impoverished island with some shady banks and a limited terrorism capacity ? How is it different from… let’s say Cyprus ?

Posted by: Savonarole | Dec 3 2025 15:15 utc | 465

https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/12/02/russia-more-vehicles/
Another false hope bites the dust. Russia is not running out of tanks

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 3 2025 15:21 utc | 466

I think Peter AU1 was correct earlier in how Russia will respond if the EU starts a war directly with Russia. Listening to Putin’s statement on the matter, he specified as contrast that the conflict with the Ukraine wasn’t really a war, and that it was “surgical”. The implication is that the conflict with Europe, if they choose to start it, will be a real war and will NOT be surgical. 
 
Kinzhals are surgical. Oreshniks are surgical. Putin is not talking about weapons like those that can selectively destroy a target without disturbing the surrounding urbanization. Furthermore, he specified that if such a war were to be started there would quickly be no one for Russia to negotiate with, and again the implication is clear: Not that those with whom Russia would negotiate are no longer worthy of negotiation, but rather such people would simply no longer exist… as in they would become a greasy vapor.
 
Yes, Russian statements tend towards being annoyingly opaque, but I don’t think there is much ambiguity in what Putin said this time. War with Europe will be qualitatively more “kinetic” than the conflict in the Ukraine… an order of magnitude more. That means an atomic scale response from Russia.
 
The West tends to misunderstand Russia’s words and intentions, but I think this time it would be very unfortunate for Europe to not grasp Putin’s full meaning. 

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2025 15:22 utc | 467

Military Situation In Ukraine On December 3, 2025 (Maps Update)

  • Russian strikes destroyed targets in Sumy, Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia, Chernihiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Odesa regions;
  • The Russian army struck military logistics facilities in Dmitrievka and Ternovka, Dnipropetrovsk region;
  • The Russian army struck energy infrastructure in Kryvyi Rih;
  • Russian Geran drones hit port infrastructure in Belyaevka, Odessa region;
  • The Russian offensive continues in the Seversk, Pokrovsk, Kupyansk, Dnipropetrovsk, and Zaporizhzhia directions;
  • Russian forces advanced in the Seversk direction;
  • Russian forces advanced in the Kupyansk direction;
  • Russian forces advanced in Stepnogorsk;
  • Russian forces advanced in the area of Konstantinovka;
  • Ukrainian losses amounted to approximately 1,260 troops over the past 24 hours.

https://southfront.press/military-situation-in-ukraine-on-december-3-2025-maps-update/
 

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 15:22 utc | 468

William Gruff | Dec 3 2025 15:22 utc | 471
 
Putin is not a bloke to fuck about. He pulled Russia up by its bootlaces. Something that has always been strong in me is never attack another mans family. Russia is Putins family.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2025 15:27 utc | 469

That means an atomic scale response from Russia.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2025 15:22 utc | 471
 
Not necessarily. That is purely opinion, not supported by Putin’s statements. Even 50 to 100Kinzhals or other weapons targeting specific points would yield the same result. Nuclear weapons are not necessary for this.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 15:30 utc | 470

why does he fail repeatedly to mention England, while the rats at Whitehall chew holes in his ships……..??????
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 3 2025 15:02 utc | 464

You sound disappinted like you were rejected by a lover. Why does the elephant ignore the barking of dogs? Because they are irrelevant. Power doesnt reside in Whitehall. They also are, militarily and economically, a nonentity. Sorry to burst your bubble, but England and her vassals are not worth worrying about.  
Meanwhile seems to anyone paying attention that all the Wests horses and all the Wests men couldn’t put Ukraine together again. Attacking a handful of oil tankers isnt going to do anything of strategic relevance. As I said, irrelevant. They should bluster and boast and posture less and reflect and consider more. This applies across the West, including our very own commenters.
For ‘David F’ Noone cares, go cry about your lack of original thought elsewhere you nitwit.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 3 2025 15:34 utc | 471

For ‘David F’ Noone cares, go cry about your lack of original thought elsewhere you nitwit.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 3 2025 15:34 utc | 475
 
Why do you have to insult others? Is that what your ego needs? Are you incapable of speaking politely even to someone who disagrees with you? So you’re a hooligan?

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 15:39 utc | 472

Among those I am aware of Brian Berletic is the only former US military who isn’t avoiding the real US intensions. The rest no matter how much they know pretend it isn’t the US puppeteering the rest

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Dec 3 2025 15:40 utc | 473

Posted by: English Outsider | Dec 3 2025 13:23 utc | 430
 
Is this supposed to be cheap psychological warfare to make Ukraine look bad?
And at the same time, pointing the finger at Germany, a country that’s been occupied since 1945, and seriously claiming that figures like Merkel, Scholz, and Merz are the ones behind the current situation?
Who is supposed to believe that?
It’s like in the Third Reich: a few organized, many participated, some remained silent, and very few resisted.
Ukrainians are not a homogeneous group with whom one can identify. There are destitute, starving pensioners without access to energy and health care, and human sacrificers who shit in golden toilets.
You feel sorry for the former, just like the homeless people in my hometown, whose fate I also share through my political passivity.
Are you now on the Salushny team? Your “we” must include someone, right?
 

Posted by: Blindspot | Dec 3 2025 15:41 utc | 474

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 15:07 utc | 467
[…]
What I said was that communist ethics was working for them (at least as well as liberal ethics was working for us) and then when they lost the communist system they were left with no ethical framework except “anything goes”.
 
This happened in Russia too but smart Putin came and saved them while ukrops still are in the “anything goes” ethical vacuum. Other former soviet republics had Islam and Belarus had Lukashenko so they didn’t go “anything goes”.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 3 2025 15:41 utc | 475

smartfox @474:
 

Even 50 to 100Kinzhals or other weapons targeting specific points would yield the same result. Nuclear weapons are not necessary for this.

 
That would be “surgical” in the extreme. Putin very specifically said that a Russian response to Europe directly attacking Russia would not be surgical.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2025 15:41 utc | 476

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 15:39 utc | 476

Im so sorry I dont suffer fools gladly. Best get some tissues, you passive aggressive nincompoop. Your lack of emotional maturity is marked. My comment is both justified and mild. So piss off, snowflake.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 3 2025 15:43 utc | 477

Posted by: Blindspot | Dec 3 2025 15:41 utc | 478
 
correction
Is this supposed to be cheap psychological warfare to make Ukraine look like the sheep?

Posted by: Blindspot | Dec 3 2025 15:44 utc | 478

Russian soldiers, Ukrainian soldiers, Europeans, Palestinians, Americans… we all share the same fate: we are cattle, and at best, powerless medieval peasants.
 
Posted by: Valerio del Bierzo | Dec 3 2025 12:51 utc | 420
 
#########
 
A cry for meaning and purpose.
 
Family can provide both.
 
Religion can contribute context.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 3 2025 15:45 utc | 479

That would be “surgical” in the extreme. Putin very specifically said that a Russian response to Europe directly attacking Russia would not be surgical.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2025 15:41 utc | 480
 
No. 100 aren’t “surgical” anymore, and atom weapons are an OPTION, not set as automatic. Read the wordings of the origial carefully.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 15:47 utc | 480

LoveDonbass | Dec 3 2025 15:45 utc | 483
 
The difference between a warning and a threat!

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 15:48 utc | 481

Citron/Lemon….”Russians are not played”…. they slowly,methodically destroying UKR/NATO  ..warmachine….1.7+ millions KIA ..destroyed hundreds of billions worth of nato/ukr.military weaponry and in the process economy of Germany/UK/France is gone since 2022…..btw your comment is sour as lemon=citron….

Posted by: sejmon | Dec 3 2025 16:00 utc | 482

Would you elect as Chairman of the Board an actor pretending to be a big shot businessman in a TV show?
 
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 3 2025 14:49 utc | 462
 
######
 
Let’s leave the Americans out of this…

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 3 2025 16:01 utc | 483

QUI#315…C a p i t u l a t i o n .. and exile of Z…

Posted by: sejmon | Dec 3 2025 16:02 utc | 484

smartfox @484: “No. 100 aren’t “surgical” anymore…”
 
Yes, they are. 100, 500, 1000, it doesn’t matter, they are still surgical. You destroy a very specific target without disturbing the surrounding city, that is the perfect example of a surgical strike. To move beyond surgical strikes you must be doing significant damage to the entire city. A hundred kinzhals would not do significant damage to a single large city beyond possibly disabling the water and electricity supply for a portion of the city, and even then the strikes would be surgical. Russia does not have the capacity to do WWII style strategic conventional bombing, so it has to be nuclear.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2025 16:04 utc | 485

#341 George Wendel…Sorry but stick your race  card  where it belong to as*…Somalis did stole thanks to governor around $ 800 millions of welfare benefits..soo stop this racial BS….

Posted by: sejmon | Dec 3 2025 16:07 utc | 486

<em>“Who protects vdL?”</em>
 
No one ‼️
 
Second term … got rid of dissent in the Commission. An elite Prussian … sorry guys. Floats high above the ordinary people … great teachers from visits to Israel (Netanyahu), Negev university Ben Gurion, extreme rightwing think-tanks in USA like Hudson and Hoover Institute. Loves MAGA and Trump. With Donald a gender issue 😄 a bit different than the chairs by Erdoğan
Beyond German authoritarianism … a Bismarck character … unsinkable.

Posted by: Oui | Dec 3 2025 16:08 utc | 487

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2025 16:04 utc | 489
 
nevertheess, as OPTION, not as automatic, so it’s a warning, not a thread

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 16:08 utc | 488

William Gruff | Dec 3 2025 16:04 utc | 489
 
When judging someone else’s statements, there are two possibilities: either they are too stupid to understand the meaning of their own words, or the words have been chosen deliberately. Putin is not stupid.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 16:12 utc | 489

As conditions deteriorate at home, joblessness, lack of housing, deteriorating healthcare, food-bank use through the roof, with ‘all party support’ Carney’s Canada adds another $200 m to the $50b pile of our money thrown down the NATO-Nazi proxy-war shithole against Russia since 2014…
 
Canada Pledges More Than $200 M in Funding For Ukraine at NATO Meeting
 
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/anand-mcguinty-nato-ukraine-9.7001195
 
“Canada is spending more than $200 million on military equipment for Ukraine, making the purchase through an international mechanism set up by NATO and the Trump administration…”
 

Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 3 2025 16:16 utc | 490

smartfox @493:
 

When judging someone else’s statements, there are two possibilities: either they are too stupid to understand the meaning of their own words, or the words have been chosen deliberately. Putin is not stupid.

 
 
Precisely, which is why it is important to understand the distinction Putin is making when he says that any war with Europe will be different from the operation in the Ukraine; that is will not be surgical.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2025 16:20 utc | 491

Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 3 2025 16:16 utc | 494
 
Carnage is bad, bad news; Canada is fucked.

Posted by: canuk | Dec 3 2025 16:21 utc | 492

@471 William Gruff
 
Yes, Russian statements tend towards being annoyingly opaque, but I don’t think there is much ambiguity in what Putin said this time. War with Europe will be qualitatively more “kinetic” than the conflict in the Ukraine… an order of magnitude more. That means an atomic scale response from Russia.
 
 
I agree that it will be all out war against Europe.  I believe that Russia is continually building up its stockpile of missiles that likely have names such as “Frankfurt Oil Depot, 68 hours after start of missile launch”.   It will be more kinetic than the current drone and missile attacks on Ukraine.  Attacks that cause noticeable power shortages.  
 
There is no need to go nuclear.  Russia can do all the damage it needs with conventional weapons.  My estimation of the number of functional port facilities in Europe a day after the missiles start flying will be zero.  The number of operational military facilities and factories in Europe will be low.
 
Presumably the goal would be to be a strong enough attack that the US decides that assisting Europe is useless.  Russia is in it to win the peace afterwards, not just the war.  The last time Russia won a major war and got screwed in the post war peace was 1945.  I do not think that will happen this time.

Posted by: Woke American | Dec 3 2025 16:22 utc | 493

Re: EU Stealing Russian Central Bank Assets ?
 
this will cause all sorts of foreign individuals and entities to (slowly but surely) pull their financial assets from EU Banks. Trillions will eventually leave the EU. 

Posted by: Exile | Dec 3 2025 16:23 utc | 494

Given the fragile state and lack of back-up across much of European infrastructure, “surgical” would also be highly disruptive.
 
From a British perspective, 20 to 30 missiles arriving at key transport and energy nodes would be enough. As an example, a couple of railway signalling control centres – Three Bridges in Sussex covers a wide range of key commuter routes both north and south of London, plus the rail services to Gatwick Airport; the centre at Didcot in Oxfordshire covers the passenger and freight routes west from London all the way to South Wales, plus the route to Heathrow Airport.
 
Knock those two out and 100’s of route-miles are unusable, and there is no back-up. The roads wouldn’t be a great alternative, as the south-western quarter of the M25 motorway struggles to cope as it is, plus there is nothing to stop missiles arriving at major intersections as well.
 
20 to 30 “surgical” missiles would bring this country to a grinding halt, with recovery being long, slow and debt-magnifying.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 3 2025 16:23 utc | 495

When judging someone else’s statements, there are two possibilities: either they are too stupid to understand the meaning of their own words, or the words have been chosen deliberately. Putin is not stupid.
 
Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 16:12 utc | 493
 
#######
 
Why judge?
 
Words are wind.
 
If you’re going to judge, judge action.
 
People lie, they err, things get lost in translation.
 
If Putin does something, or doesn’t do something (also an action), that will trump any speech or statement.
 
So many get their panties in a bunch day after day over throwaway words reported second hand.
 
Who cares what Putin (Trump, VDL, Zelensky, etc) said?
 
What material difference does it make?
 
If he was going to nuke or not nuke, there is nothing you can do about it, and your opinion won’t matter to any survivors if he does.
 
Some of y’all are so engrossed in the shadow puppets on the cave wall. Go outside. Feel the sun on your skin.
 
Touch grass.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 3 2025 16:25 utc | 496

psychohistorian | Dec 3 2025 6:30 utc | 383
 
Thanks for your reply. I find it hard to envision a Ukie military collapse because we don’t know how much remains uncommitted behind the Dnieper, plus there are the Nazi formations that are mostly intact and exist to ensure Nazi government control. In other words, the Ukie government is already quasi-military in nature, except for the Rada. Martial Law is still in force, which to me means military control. Now, I’ve yet to read a detailed assessment by Russia of the overall nature of Ukie government outside of Kiev and who/what is actually in charge, although I’m sure Russia has intel on that which remains mostly secret. All focus is on what is perceived to be the head snake–Zelensky–when he’s judged by many to be a figurehead snake: The Nazi Spokesman. Yermak is gone, but how many more Yermaks are there? And is it even worth speculating on this now? Perhaps we should wait for more corruption fallout to occur as more are sure to follow Yermak.  

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 3 2025 16:33 utc | 497

Let’s do the math.Belarus received 10 Oreschnik after Kaliningrad was finished. I guess Moscow and St. Petersburg had already been supplied.
That means at least 40-50 in 6 weeks from the start of series production, which corresponds to 1 per day with 24-hour operation.
If this estimate is correct, 80-100 are already there.
Mass production for Burevestnik is likely to have started this week. Let’s say in 3 days.
By the time the situation with Europe has escalated to the point where war breaks out, Russia should have enough to be able to do without nuclear weapons.
This would also have the advantage of still having another threat up its sleeve if England and France still have nukes somewhere that could not be neutralized.
Admittedly, this is speculation, but it is reasonable to assume that Russia is currently working flat out on production and that my calculation is realistic.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 3 2025 16:37 utc | 498

The West tends to misunderstand Russia’s words and intentions, but I think this time it would be very unfortunate for Europe to not grasp Putin’s full meaning. 
 
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2025 15:22 utc | 471
 
Things were made clear in 2021 and made crystal clear in february 2022
 
Russia has, god knows why it’s not as if they get invaded each century /s, some security issues
 
Assurances were given, and broken
 
If war is inevitable, it will be on RF’s terms, not as or when  the west planed  (february 2022 should also be considered a qualified statement on that)
 
dear nato, deal with it
 
my 2 cents

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 3 2025 16:38 utc | 499

Woke American
 

Russia can do all the damage it needs with conventional weapons.  My estimation of the number of functional port facilities in Europe a day after the missiles start flying will be zero.

 
Not a chance. Russia doesn’t even have the conventional missile capacity to fully take out the port facilities in Odessa, much less all of the ports in Europe.
 
I’m not concern-trolling about Russia being weak, but rather I think many people are vastly overestimating how much destruction a kinzhal, or even an oreshnik, can do. FABs, of whichever flavor you choose, are more powerful than a kinzhal, as well as being much cheaper and more plentiful. In addition, Russia has only a handful of aircraft that can launch kinzhals, so even if Russia has cranked production up to build a stockpile of thousands (certainly not the case, but for argument’s sake let’s say they have) they can still only launch a few at a time. There will be no swarms of hundreds of kinzhals raining down on targets across Europe. 
 

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 3 2025 16:47 utc | 500