Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 2, 2025
NATO Thinks Of ‘Pre-emptive Strikes’ Against Russia To ‘Defend’ Against Something That Did Not Happen

As it is becoming obvious that Ukraine is losing in the proxy war against Russia, the ideas European governments are are throwing around are getting more crazy.

Some are now eager to ‘pre-emptively’ attack Russia in ‘retaliation’ for alleged ‘hybrid attacks’ against European countries. Those ‘hybrid attacks’ are mostly pure fantasies.

Politico was first to report this nonsense:

Europe thinks the unthinkable: Retaliating against RussiaPolitico, Nov 27 2025
Countries are looking at joint offensive cyber operations and surprise military drills as Moscow steps up its campaign to destabilize NATO allies.

Russia’s drones and agents are unleashing attacks across NATO countries and Europe is now doing what would have seemed outlandish just a few years ago: planning how to hit back.

Ideas range from joint offensive cyber operations against Russia, and faster and more coordinated attribution of hybrid attacks by quickly pointing the finger at Moscow, to surprise NATO-led military exercises, according to two senior European government officials and three EU diplomats.

“The Russians are constantly testing the limits — what is the response, how far can we go?” Latvian Foreign Minister Baiba Braže noted in an interview. A more “proactive response is needed,” she told POLITICO. “And it’s not talking that sends a signal — it’s doing.”

What are the ‘hybrid attacks’ in question?

Russian drones have buzzed Poland and Romania in recent weeks and months, while mysterious drones have caused havoc at airports and military bases across the continent. Other incidents include GPS jamming, incursions by fighter aircraft and naval vessels, and an explosion on a key Polish rail link ferrying military aid to Ukraine.

The idea to ‘pre-empivly’ attack Russia comes from an Italian defense paper:

Last week, Italian Defense Minister Guido Crosetto slammed the continent’s “inertia” in the face of growing hybrid attacks and unveiled a 125-page plan to retaliate. In it, he suggested establishing a European Center for Countering Hybrid Warfare, a 1,500-strong cyber force, as well as military personnel specialized in artificial intelligence.

To me that looks like someone is seeking additional NATO payments. Three days later a Italian NATO general furthered the idea:

Nato considers being ‘more aggressive’ against Russia’s hybrid warfare (archived) – Financial Times, Nov 30 025
Alliance’s top military officer says it could become proactive in dealing with Moscow threat

Nato is considering being “more aggressive” in responding to Russia’s cyber attacks, sabotage and airspace violations, according to the alliance’s most senior military officer.

Admiral Giuseppe Cavo Dragone told the Financial Times that the western military alliance was looking at stepping up its response to hybrid warfare from Moscow.

Some diplomats, especially from eastern European countries, have urged Nato to stop being merely reactive and hit back. Such a response would be easiest for cyber attacks where many countries have offensive capabilities but would be less easy for sabotage or drone intrusions.

Dragone said that a “pre-emptive strike” could be considered a “defensive action”, but added: “It is further away from our normal way of thinking and behaviour.”

He added: “Being more aggressive compared with the aggressivity of our counterpart could be an option. [The issues are] legal framework, jurisdictional framework, who is going to do this?”

Admiral Dragone is using Orwellian speech when he seems obviously lobbying for 1,500 NATO paid jobs in his home country.

One problem with this is that there is little evidence of any ‘hybrid attacks’.

Ursula von der Leyen was caught outright lying when her staff claimed that alleged Russian GPS distortion had prolonged a flight she was taking.

The alleged intrusion of Russian planes into Estonian airspace had turned out to be an innocent passage near an uninhabited island far from the coast.

The Dutch magazine Trouw has found that the myriad of recent drone panics had little to do with Russia.

Analysis sixty drone incidents in Europe: a lot of panic and little evidence (archived) – Trouw.nl

Machine translation:

Using the Dronewatch platform, Trouw mapped around sixty incidents involving drones in eleven European countries. These took place in the last three months. The conclusion: a lot of confusion and ambiguity and regular false alarms. For Russian involvement, as some authorities and experts point out, in the vast majority of cases no hard evidence has been provided.

In about forty incidents, the origin is still unclear or no evidence has been found for drones in the airspace. An example is Oslo, where drone reports shut down air traffic at the end of September, affecting thousands of travelers. The police did not find any confirmation afterwards that drones were actually flying. The same was true for reports at the airport of Swedish Gothenburg in early November.

In at least fourteen cases, it turned out to be something completely different afterwards. For example, people in Belgium mistook (small) planes and helicopters for drones, while the flying objects in South Limburg and Danish Billund were stars. The Norwegian police concluded that a suspicious ‘drone’ near an oil platform in the North Sea was probably a ship.

A number of times it has been established that drone flights were the work of a hobbyist or that it later turned out to be a tourist. In an incident in Warsaw where a drone flew over government buildings, Polish police picked up a Ukrainian and a 17-year-old girl from Belarus. There is no evidence of espionage.

This picture was published by media as showing alleged damage by an alleged explosion along a Polish rail line


bigger

According to the Polish outlet Super Express, a train driver travelling near the Mikołajówka (Mika) station informed dispatchers at 07:39 about irregularities in the rail infrastructure.

A preliminary inspection revealed that roughly one meter of track had been destroyed, forcing the train to stop. No passengers or crew members were injured.

Prime Minister Donald Tusk later underscored the gravity of the incident on X, stating:

“Blowing up the rail track on the Warsaw–Lublin route is an unprecedented act of sabotage targeting directly the security of the Polish state and its civilians. This route is also crucially important for delivering aid to Ukraine. We will catch the perpetrators, whoever they are.”

Nothing was ‘blown up’. What can be seen in the picture is not the result of an explosion. For comparison you might want to watch this attempt (vid) of using C-4 explosive to cut an I-beam. It is a VERY violent process. But the track ballast under the broken rail as well as the sleepers seem undisturbed and undamaged. The incident was most likely a brittle crack caused by fatigue. The rail was probably not firmly fixed on the sleepers and bent when trains were running over it. When that happens one time too many rails will break.

The alleged ‘hybrid attacks’ by Russia are over-hyped normal incidents with little if any relation to Russia. To use these as an excuse for ‘pre-emptive strikes’, be it cyber or whatnot, hardly makes such ‘defensive’.

And what, by the way, is Admiral Dragone planing to do if Russia hits back?

Comments

*** Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori. ***
Posted by: Original Newbie | Dec 2 2025 19:02 utc | 191
 
I heard this first in English class as a 10 year old. I wish it would have the same impact on me on more. There might be fewer wars. 

Posted by: frithguild | Dec 2 2025 19:30 utc | 201

Moody Blues#147..you are more paranoid than EU/NATO politicians and f* generals regard VVP.

Posted by: sejmon | Dec 2 2025 19:31 utc | 202

Ukraine always has had the possibility to make a “dirty” Nuke bomb. (or blow up nuclear reactors).  So this is not really a “new” threat.
Watch the talks in Moscow please. As well as Witkoff (US-Trump) there is Kushner (AIPAC and Jewish interest groups), plus the Chinese foreign minister is in Moscow as well. Mjor players are represented. Rumour has it that Zelensky will be told to go to Israel as a “solution”, where he can use and keep the money he has stolen, and not be extradited for crimes.
One more tanker could be added to those others mentioned (4), one which is presently sinking off Africa. Note that Two of them were Chinese ships under other flags, (Gambian flag for one) in Turkish waters. As they are called “shadow” tankers – which means that they are not insured by Lloyds of London. This may even be indirect proof that the UK is behind the attacks. After all the same “Names” that back-stop Lloyds may also be in the foreign office or the “aristocracy (Eton) of the UK etc. (A “name” puts their entire fortune (assest) on the line, in case of any loss through disaster) But they do make a LOT of money, and probably even more in the present situation. It must cost a lot to insure a tanker nowadays.
As we are on the subject of tankers, one idea about US-Venezuela, is to take it’s Oil OFF the market to keep prices higher. So that US fields are rentable. Cover ingthe cost of extraction. Threatening tankers worldwide may have a similar effect on the price of Brent.

Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 2 2025 19:34 utc | 203

To hell with “attrition-warfare” why kill every conscript the Waffen-SS of Galicia can scrape-up?  Cut-off the Waffen-SS main supply line!  And if you have to kill anyone, kill those Waffen-SS assholes, the ones who’re throwing every ethnic/cultural Russ/Magyar/Slovak they can find into DC/London/Jerusalem’s sausage maker.
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 2 2025 16:55 utc | 132
 
I will speculate that the Russians know where the ‘Buck Stops’, both in and out of Ukraine. I would also surmise that pin point retribution would be a matter of timing, and that time is not neigh. (that’s just my Everyman imagination)

Posted by: Original Newbie | Dec 2 2025 19:35 utc | 204

oops, forgot the double “return”  on 204 to make it more readable.

Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 2 2025 19:35 utc | 205

200
Talking about these things in the Western mental kindergarten is, I know, a waste of time.
Vladimir Putin, Vladimir Zelensky, and Vladimir Jabotinsky—all three come from the same medieval (1033-) ethnicity forged by rabbis: the polish-ukrainian Yiddish people. It even appears on the English Wikipedia, which is constantly being patrolled.
This is a minor historical detail (though significant for appreciating the level of infantilism in Western conversations). What’s important for the monstrosity of the Ukrainian Gambit is that Vladimir of Moscow is a Zionist, and thus he lost the only bargaining chip he had: “our colonial project” (Vladimir Jabotinsky) founded (1917-) by violent fanatics from Russia and Ukraine who began (1936-) killing the local population by the forties. Valerio del Bierzo was a hermit; look him up on Wikipedia. I come from a Jewish family and tradition. I’m tired of lies, fools, cynics, and sociopathic oligarchs.

Posted by: Valerio del Bierzo | Dec 2 2025 19:44 utc | 206

Talking about poison gas, EU just claimed Georgia is using poison gas against protesters.Posted by: unimperator | Dec 2 2025 16:06 utc | 100
 
well that WWI poison gas is  a “tear gas”. allows high dilution.
 
camite”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromobenzyl_cyanide

Posted by: MAKK | Dec 2 2025 19:45 utc | 207

NATO braying about “pre-emptive” strikes reminds me of one of those Sun Tzu quotes: 
 
“Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.”
 
And NATO does go on about tactics, doesn’t it? Come to think of it, that’s pretty well ALL THEY DO. Relax and get popcorn. 
An interesting side-note: all sorts of useful idiots post nonsense on social media about the SMO. There’s little point to interacting with such people; it’s rather like wrestling pigs in a muddy pen. However, in the course of reading such fresh animal droppings, I was reminded of the Roman expression, attributed to Cato the Elder, who allegedly finished all his speeches with “Carthage delenda est!” (Carthage must be destroyed!). 
And, sure enough, a Baltic chihuahua has already used the expression in relation to the Russian Federation. Back in March of 2024, the Latvian President Edgars Rinkēvičs did so. 
see https://responsiblestatecraft.org/latvia-russia/
 
“NATO delenda est” has a very nice ring to it.  Get more popcorn. 

Posted by: N_H | Dec 2 2025 19:45 utc | 208

Russia just started using FAB-5000! That will speed up Things…

Posted by: Nobody | Dec 2 2025 19:50 utc | 209

A year ago this week …
 
‏”Madness, suicide, catastrophe”: A week after a report that anonymous Western sources suggested sending nuclear weapons to Kiyv, the Kremlin continues to express shock and issue harsh threats
 

Posted by: Oui | Dec 2 2025 19:52 utc | 210

Thanks for your reply and vote of confidence! Here’s an imaginary Ukrainian’s beef with Trump: You took control of my nation so you could capture Crimea and turn it into a NATO base, but the Russians stationed there along with a few additional Spetsnaz prevented that, so you allowed your Nazi proxies to rampage and make war on Russian speaking Ukrainians who were against your coup, and that began the war of resistance. Operating under NATO command, our troops were unable to defeat the resistance which instead defeated us, which prompted the two Minsk agreements that were used to rebuild our army. Yes, there was a Ukrainian face nominally in-charge, but the real direction was managed by NATO. You, Trump, helped greatly during your first term in resupplying and rebuilding our military and continued the policy of shelling civilian targets within resistance held regions. The plan was to mount a great invasion after your reelection, but Biden took over, although the policy and ultimate goal didn’t change. Now that you’ve destroyed our nation, caused two million deaths on the battlefield, caused many millions to flee the country, you want us to surrender for the war you started. We think that you–and NATO–need to surrender first and pay us many billions in reparations for the damage and loss of territory your policy caused. 
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 17:38 utc | 152
 
Thank you. It does not get ay clearer. Now if we could mail this to every Ukie here in Canada.

Posted by: Original Newbie | Dec 2 2025 19:54 utc | 211

Technical and Financial Capabilities

Discussions about restoring Ukraine’s nuclear potential continue. After the collapse of the USSR, the country inherited a scientific and technical base, including institutes in Kharkiv, Kyiv, and Dnipro. Specialists in nuclear physics and rocket engineering are still active.
 
The Kharkiv Institute of Physics and Technology and enterprises like “Yuzhmash” have expertise that can be used to create nuclear weapons. Modern technologies allow bypassing the full restoration of Soviet infrastructure.
 
Financial constraints are often mentioned by skeptics. However, Ukraine has already spent significant funds on defense. In 2024, security expenditures exceeded 50% of the budget. Examples of North Korea and Pakistan show that even countries with limited resources can achieve nuclear status.

Posted by: Oui | Dec 2 2025 19:56 utc | 212

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 19:03 utc | 193
 
Thanks for this description.
 
My humble impression has been that Russia today most of all resembles a modern however somewhat conservative social democracy. Do you think that’s far from reality?

Posted by: Avtonom | Dec 2 2025 20:10 utc | 213

Martyanov just said that the Ukraine-nuke story is “BS.”Posted by: spudski | Dec 2 2025 18:45 utc | 182

 
Sounds reasonable. However crazy the Americans are, they must have some understanding of what it would mean to arm the incredibly corrupt neo-nazi Ukraine with nukes.

Posted by: Avtonom | Dec 2 2025 20:12 utc | 214

I like to think these words of an Italian general are just bluster, empty threats, a demand to allocate more funds to it’s military and if possible prop up sunken Ukrainian morale. The same with Macron, Starmer, Kallas, Ursula and all those other inept and impotent cucks and retards who are in there own MSM magazines and outlets referred to as “European elites”.
Russia has showcased its retaliatory capabilities on multiple occasions. They guarantee MAD and it’s inconceivable they don’t work with a dead man’s switch. So the only thing these people can cling on is a Russian destruction from within and subsequent balkanization which has been the goal right from the beginning.

Posted by: xor | Dec 2 2025 20:17 utc | 215

I would say this is a trial balloon … test out how the Europeans will react.
 
Say something utterly outrageous, then walk it back just two steps to just regular nutty.

Posted by: Tel | Dec 2 2025 20:21 utc | 216

*** anonymous Western sources suggested sending nuclear weapons to Kiyv, the Kremlin continues to express shock and issue harsh threats ***
Posted by: Oui | Dec 2 2025 19:52 utc | 211
 
The shrieks of a faction deep within Blob desperately searching for a way out of the place where their stupidity intersects with that oh so outdated and misogynistic thingy called Realpolitik. 

Posted by: frithguild | Dec 2 2025 20:28 utc | 217

President Putin said if Europe wanted a war with Russia right now, Russia was ready. It would be over quick as they would not need to be careful as with Ukraine. 
 
Finally, plainly put.

Posted by: Suresh | Dec 2 2025 20:29 utc | 218

If Putin wipes the UK off the map, I’m in.

Posted by: Friul | Dec 2 2025 20:31 utc | 219

❗The former head of the UK House of Commons Defence Committee, Tobias Ellwood, is calling for the country to directly enter the war with Russia and declare martial law, stating there is a “war in Europe”.🤡
 
Hmm
🇩🇪🏴‍☠️🇺🇦👉🇺🇸 The Pentagon has stopped communicating with the German Ministry of Defense, including on issues related to Ukraine. German general Christian Freyding said this, reported by The Atlantic.According to him, he was in constant contact with American colleagues before, but communication has now completely stopped.
‼️🇷🇺 🇷🇺 👉🇫🇷🏴‍☠️ Foreign Intelligence Service of the Russian Federation:▪️France is still looking for options for direct involvement in the conflict in Ukraine.▪️The presence of French PMCs in Ukraine will be considered by Russia as France’s direct participation in military operations against the Russian Federation.▪️French PMCs in the conflict in Ukraine will become the primary legitimate target of the Russian Armed Forces
🇭🇺👉🇪🇺🏴‍☠️ Siyarto stated that Europe is preparing for a military confrontation with Russia, which may occur in 2030.According to the head of Hungary’s foreign ministry to the MTI agency, there is a risk of a ‘fire’ across the entire continent.
 
Above….z and V telegram
According to dill press, the US and Ukraine couldn’t reach agreement on any of the key issues. Kiev representatives cited the Ukrainian Constitution, which prevents them from accepting Washington’s proposals (yet at the same time didn’t prevent them from abandoning neutrality and the russian language).
Kiev completely rejected Russia’s key conditions, stating that it does not intend to withdraw troops from Donbass. At the same time, the delegation members cited constitutional limitations, the opinion of Ukrainian society (which to my knowledge hasn’t even been asked), and the “failure to adapt the conditions to the real situation.” According to Kiev representatives, the Ukrainian army is holding its positions and does not intend to withdraw, while Russia, they said, lacks the forces and resources to conquer Donbass.
Ukraine is therefore demanding a ceasefire along the current front line, followed by a discussion of territorial issues. Kiev also rejected the refusal to join NATO, again citing the country’s Constitution. They say the path to NATO is primarily set out in the country’s basic constitution and nothing can be done about it.
Furthermore, Kiev representatives refused to make changes to the Constitution to reach a peace agreement, saying that this would set a “bad precedent.”
@Slavyangrad
 
US quietly acknowledged that it cannot destroy Russia’s economy, — National Interest▪️The US and Europe finally realize the tragic reality: their support for Ukraine will not be enough to defeat Russia.➖”If you have to repeat the same action 19 times, you have failed,” said the US Treasury Secretary casually about European sanctions.▪️The entire Western strategy was completely schizophrenic. On one hand, Europeans want to deprive Russia of the ability to conduct military operations, on the other hand, they continue to purchase Russian energy resources.slavyangrad
 
‼️🇺🇦🏴‍☠️The end of the war in Ukraine «is not expected», – Major General Keller▪️About this, the deputy chief of the NATO Support and Preparation Staff on Ukraine (NSATU) told Welt in an interview.▪️However, the fact that Ukraine is still resisting, Keller considers, is partly due to the contribution of NATO – primarily, coordination and supply support.@Slavyangrad
‼️🇺🇦🏴‍☠️The end of the war in Ukraine «is not expected», – Major General Keller▪️About this, the deputy chief of the NATO Support and Preparation Staff on Ukraine (NSATU) told Welt in an interview.▪️However, the fact that Ukraine is still resisting, Keller considers, is partly due to the contribution of NATO – primarily, coordination and supply support.@Slavyangrad

  1. AFU reserves as of Nov 30: 60 Neptune missiles after recent uses (from 66), 4 rare Long Neptunes, ample Storm Shadow/ATACMS unused, 184 USVs (down from 192). Strike potential holds but effectiveness wanes against adapted defences, shifting to civilian targets. Rybar

 

Posted by: Jo | Dec 2 2025 20:34 utc | 220

In response to

If Putin wipes the UK off the map, I’m in.
Posted by: Friul | Dec 2 2025 20:31 utc | 220

 
Just The City Of London….the square mile of financial perfidy
 
Maybe that could convince Pope Bob to walk back usury, eh?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2025 20:34 utc | 221

Live broadcast …
 
Marco Rubio in Washington after cabinet meeting … “We are not spending money on Ukraine, it’s NOT OUR WAR.”
 
Exceptional: he is parroting the words of JD Vance faction 💪🏽

Posted by: Oui | Dec 2 2025 20:50 utc | 222

The former head of the UK House of Commons Defence Committee, Tobias Ellwood, is calling for the country to directly enter the war with Russia and declare martial law, stating there is a “war in Europe”.🤡 ***
Posted by: Jo | Dec 2 2025 20:34 utc | 221
 
Absolutely no appreciation for the lessons the Brits should have learned. The Nazis only wanted a path through the Danzig corridor. The Brits knew they had no way to defend that part of Poland. But after the Sudetenland, the Brits entered into a “security guarantee” with Poland. Without this, the “Unnecessary War” may never have happened. 
 
History rhymes.

Posted by: frithguild | Dec 2 2025 20:53 utc | 223

Macron should take into account the following:
 
IN 2014 THE UNITED STATES CONDUCTED A COUP IN UKRAINE.
 
In 2014 the United States (aligned with a faction in the Ukrainian government) conducted a coup in Kiev (to replace the democratically elected Yanukovich government which was considered insufficiently pro-Europe).
 
Many in Eastern Ukraine rebelled against this coup-government.
 
A civil war began.
 
The coup-government claimed authority over all of Ukraine
 
and called itself “the Ukrainian government”.
 
The coup-government sent in the military to deal with the eastern rebels.
 
The media claimed, and still claims, that the U.S. backed coup-government had a “right” to all of Ukraine and they champion (vigorously support) a march to the Russian border.
 
WHAT IF THE RUSSIANS HAD CONDUCTED THE COUP IN 2014?
 
Imagine that in 2014 Russia (aligned with a faction in the Ukrainian government) conducted a coup in Kiev (to replace the Yanukovich government which many considered too pro-Europe).
 
Many in Western Ukraine rebelled against this coup-government.
 
A civil war began.
 
The coup-government claimed authority over all of Ukraine
 
and called itself “the Ukrainian government”.
 
The coup-government called in the Russian military to deal with the western rebels.
 
Of course, to be consistent, the media would have to claim that the Russian backed coup-government had a “right” to all of Ukraine and that they championed a march of the Russian military to the Polish border.
 
The important point is that statements such as “Ukraine will not give up any of its land,” and “Zelenski Rejects Giving Land” make no sense.
 
This is because the coup-government, and its successors, never established authority over all of Ukraine.
 
WHAT IF THE CHINESE HAD CONDUCTED THE COUP IN 2014?
 
What if the Chinese (aligned with a leftist/communist faction in the Ukrainian government) had conducted a coup in Kiev. Would this give them authority over all of Ukraine?
 
What is the legal situation?
 
A few notes on the 2014 Coup in Ukraine.
 
A few days before the coup the US Under/Deputy Secretary of State, Victoria Nuland, was taped telling US Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, why she wanted Arseniy Yatsenyuk to be the prime minister of the coup-government, rather than the boxer Vitali Klitschko who was apparently the favorite for the position.
 
The Russians released the tape to the internet. Some thought this would stop the coup going ahead.
 
However, the coup went ahead, Nuland’s order was carried out, and Yatsenyuk got the job of prime minister.
 
Klitschko got the job of mayor of Kiev.
 
Everyone in sight (except possibly Tyahnybok) was a Jew but you are not allowed to call it a Jew coup.
 
You are allowed to call it a Nazi coup though.
 
All this led directly to the 2014 Ukraine civil war,
 
which led to the 2022 Ukraine-Russia war.

Posted by: John | Dec 2 2025 20:53 utc | 224

The US-Russia talks at the Kremlin involving Putin and Witkoff have been going on for over 4 hours!

https://t.me/rtnews/123592
 
It is getting late in Moscow in more than one way.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 2 2025 20:54 utc | 225

mindboggling, sickening, as is, but do we really know what the budgets are? all kinds of black ops stuff, the nukes in the US are hidden in the Dept of Energy budget

Indeed – the $1 trillion figure for the US military budget is perhaps 50% under. David Stockman did a deep dive in the actual military budget a few years ago. I can’t find it on the web, but his analysis was shocking. 

Posted by: exile | Dec 2 2025 20:54 utc | 226

@psychohistorian | Dec 2 2025 20:34 utc | 222
 
MI6 HQ too. A PoMo monstrosity housing a monstrosity.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 2 2025 20:54 utc | 227

I don’t expect much progress in today’s talks and, remember, it is not even between anointed leaders on both sides….the tough nuts are yet to be discussed, eh
Lets see what the 4 oblasts and Crimea sounds like
What does Odessa wailing sound like?
What does Ukraine neutrality wailing sound like
 
 
Maybe the EU/UK can create a chorus of wailing that might pass for Christmas caroling……/s

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2025 20:58 utc | 228

Posted by: exile | Dec 2 2025 20:54 utc | 227
 
Yes if you add all the 3 letter agencies I believe the real budget is closer to $1.4 trillion
 
And,as we know, that is not all the resources that the 3 letter agencies/MIC  have; starting with Vietnam years ago  those agencies make huge money in drug trades-remember in Afghanistan where the Taliban ere torching the opium fields yet in 2003 the US Marines were protecting them?

Posted by: canuk | Dec 2 2025 20:59 utc | 229

Nervous German | Dec 2 2025 19:22 utc | 199
 
Yes, the undoing of Glass-Stegall provided predictable results here within the Empire. The main drivers of Russia’s economic recovery since 2000 are public institutions–banks and state-owned enterprises. Oddly, much more was accomplished when Putin became PM after his first presidential term had laid some groundwork. 
 
I noted the press transcript was ready so Putin’s Press Q&A Prior to Witkoff Talks – by Karl Sanchez is now available.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 21:02 utc | 230

Avtonom | Dec 2 2025 20:10 utc | 214
 
Thanks for your reply and very sensible question. My answer is yes, but there’s greater emphasis on the people’s wellbeing and Russia’s development that will enable that wellbeing to last well into the 2100s, provided the West doesn’t create a catastrophe out of spite.  

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 21:08 utc | 231

Putin I would also like to remind you that an enemy force of 15 battalions is blocked on the left bank of the river. Russian troops have begun eliminating it. (from Karl’s link above) 
 
15 Battalions  ?!  – if that is true. then Kiev’s military is indeed starting to collapse. 
 

Posted by: exile | Dec 2 2025 21:10 utc | 232

So what is the scenario that fits with Ukraine having to militarily surrender before these infant negotiations get anywhere?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2025 21:10 utc | 233

@134
 
The word I come up with for the Trump, Witkoff, Kushner project in not infant.
 
Fedal seems better.

Posted by: pad. | Dec 2 2025 21:13 utc | 234

@ 204 Stonebird. If Zelensky goes to Tell Aviv with our tax money, I would be praying that he would get vaporised by an Iranian hypersonic.I think you’re right about Kushner as AI PAC Israel rep. 
 
The comedy value of this denouement for Zelensky would be off the scale. We can hope. 
JB

Posted by: Judge Barbier | Dec 2 2025 21:15 utc | 235

Our sources reported that the next stage of elite sabotage is the collapse of the Rada coalition, which will trigger a series of uncontrollable processes and weaken Zelenskyy’s power.
Several Servant of the People MPs have submitted statements of resignation from the faction and their mandates. Current RDA session ends Feb 2026
Lord of war

Posted by: Jo | Dec 2 2025 21:17 utc | 236

This war is far from over, unfortunately . Ukraine or UK managed to destroy another Russian ship. 
 

Posted by: sabo | Dec 2 2025 21:17 utc | 237

Trump: Europe Buys US Weapons at Full Price
 
US President Donald Trump has stated that European countries are buying weapons from the US at full price and then forwarding them to Ukraine.
 
He reiterated that the US is not directly financing Ukraine, but rather processing the arms deliveries through NATO countries.
 
“We sell NATO equipment. The European countries pay us 100 percent of the price for the equipment and then deliver it to Ukraine or do whatever they want with it.”

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 2 2025 21:18 utc | 238

I am reading Karl’s posting of Putin’t presser before the negotiations and I want to focus on one line
 

If Europe suddenly decides to go to war against us and actually follows through with it, then a situation may arise very quickly where we will be left with no one to negotiate with.

Putin is saying, not so timidly, that if Europe attacks they will be wiped out immediately

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2025 21:19 utc | 239

“Secretary of War” Pete Hegseth said some profoundly retarded shit in an interview today.

This is called the fog of war. This is what you in the press don’t understand. You sit in your air conditioned offices and plant fake stories in the Washington Post

Now, no love lost for the Post on my end, here, but some of their journalists actually do venture out of their offices to go on location. What I’m left wondering here is, does the Pentagon not have air conditioning?
 
I don’t think there’s anything worse for your average grunt or jarhead or whatever than to have top brass still pretending that they’re “warriors” who lead from the front. Mr. Hegseth was never that type of soldier or officer and never will be as the civilian head of the Department of Defense. South Park’s latest episode made good fun of this preening nonsense. Hegseth is a member of the capitalist class, a former talking head for global elite/billionaire Rupert Murdoch, and one who now issues orders that get men and women shot and blown up. If I were a career officer, I don’t know what I’d be planning, but it would resemble the beginnings of Libya under Gaddafi.

Posted by: fnord | Dec 2 2025 21:20 utc | 240

Talking about poison gas, EU just claimed Georgia is using poison gas against protesters.Posted by: unimperator | Dec 2 2025 16:06 utc | 100 well that WWI poison gas is  a “tear gas”. allows high dilution. camite”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromobenzyl_cyanide
Posted by: MAKK | Dec 2 2025 19:45 utc | 208
 
If the bbc is sayin it, it is more than likely a fake news like the ones about Syria. We know that the demonstrators are paid. Like in Maidan in 2014. They still need snipers. Like in 2014, Georgian snipers they were…

Posted by: Naive | Dec 2 2025 21:22 utc | 241

Russia should mass produce tactical nuclear weapons to counter the growing threat of NATO. Ending the INF Treaty gives Russia the opportunity to build and deploy tens of thousands of land launched intermediate range missiles that can carry tactical nukes.
 
 
NATO has been deploying biological weapons in Ukraine, etc. Russia should do same. Western Europe can only function for so many years without asking for war.

Posted by: Jason | Dec 2 2025 21:22 utc | 242

The shit show continues until it doesn’t and now the smell of shit is overwhelmed by the screech and smell of rubber meeting the road, so to speak.
 
We are watching history unfold and no nukes so far
I want to add to the nuke thing that I expect one or two used in the climax phase but Russia has 11 time zones and 1 or two nukes are not going to decimate the country, even if able to deliver them to major population centers.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2025 21:28 utc | 243

While we are waiting … 

Over 4 hours of talks…My sources in Moscow said Putin finished part one of Russian history and is currently talking about Katherine the Great.

https://t.me/geromanat/65764

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 2 2025 21:30 utc | 244

Jason | Dec 2 2025 21:22 utc | 243
Warmongering, irresponsible, and insane, obviously a PC action game strategist.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 2 2025 21:30 utc | 245

Posted by: snake | Dec 2 2025 18:47 utc | 183
 
Man, some of you are almost unbelievably stupid. You seem to be too dumb to post here. Go play with the poisons in the garage or something.

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Dec 2 2025 21:35 utc | 246

frithguild | Dec 2 2025 20:53 utc | 224
 
“Absolutely no appreciation for the lessons the Brits should have learned. The Nazis only wanted a path through the Danzig corridor. The Brits knew they had no way to defend that part of Poland. But after the Sudetenland, the Brits entered into a “security guarantee” with Poland. Without this, the “Unnecessary War” may never have happened.”
 
The Brits got the result they wanted. In order to embroil Germany in a general war they used and used up the Poles in exactly the same way NATO has used and used up the Ukrotards. It sometimes seems like Poland is willing to be used up again same as in 1939. The Baltlets and Finland sure are.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Dec 2 2025 21:37 utc | 247

🇷🇺🇺🇸 Putin’s meeting with Witkoff has ended after roughly five hours, TASS reports.
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/166661

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 2 2025 21:39 utc | 248

@ karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 21:02 utc | 231  —  Great, thanks!
I took the liberty and tasked ChatGPT to create a LA Times style (closest to German SPIEGEL)  write-up, since I consider interview style hard to read.  Consider it derivative work.
 

Moscow in Early Winter: A View From a Shifting Continent
MOSCOW, 2 December 2025. // In a year marked by diplomatic fatigue and geopolitical drift, President Vladimir Putin’s appearance before the Moscow press corps this week cut through the fog with the clarity of a man who believes the strategic map has already been redrawn. Fresh from visiting a frontline command post, he offered a detailed account of Russian advances in eastern Ukraine and sent a pointed warning toward Europe’s political leadership — one the West may ignore at its own peril.
Krasnoarmeysk: A Strategic Fulcrum
The fall of Krasnoarmeysk, long a fortified hub in Donetsk, represents more than a tactical victory. Putin described it as a “bridgehead” essential to fulfilling the objectives set at the beginning of Russia’s campaign. Its value is both infrastructural and operational: a transportation node, a defensive anchor, and a launchpad for future advances in any direction the General Staff deems necessary.
Responding to doubts in Western media, Putin reiterated that the city is “fully in the hands of the Russian army,” and went so far as to invite foreign and even Ukrainian journalists to inspect the site themselves. Past threats from Kyiv against such reporters no longer apply, he noted, since Ukraine “has nothing to do with this city anymore.” Danger remains — drones still sweep the sky, and the frontline lies close — but Moscow appears intent on showcasing control as a matter of public record.
Kupyansk: Reality vs. Rhetoric
On the contested city of Kupyansk, Putin’s tone shifted to a bemused disbelief. President Volodymyr Zelensky recently claimed Ukrainian forces were still present, but the Russian president asserted that both banks of the Oskil River — the city’s central districts and its smaller left-bank quarter — have been under Russian control “completely and in its entirety” for weeks.
Further south, in the settlement of Kupyansk-Uzlovoy, fighting continues, though Putin claimed Russian forces already hold roughly a third of its buildings and are advancing. He added that some 15 Ukrainian battalions remain trapped on the eastern bank of the river.
The implication was unmistakable: Kyiv’s statements diverge from the battlefield, perhaps because its leadership is preoccupied elsewhere. “They seem to be living on another planet,” Putin said, attributing the disconnect to constant travel and financial appeals abroad.
Europe’s Silence — and Its Estrangement
Perhaps the most politically charged moment came when Putin addressed Europe’s absence from ongoing negotiations, which currently take place only with the American side. He insisted that Europe had not been excluded; it had excluded itself. After breaking communication channels and embracing the now-faded idea of a “strategic defeat” for Russia, European governments are portrayed as politically immobilized and diplomatically adrift.
Now, seeing the conflict’s trajectory, they have shifted from disengagement to obstruction, Putin argued — attempting to complicate peace initiatives led by the U.S. administration. Proposed amendments from European capitals, he said, appear aimed at derailing negotiations entirely, and then blaming Moscow for the collapse.
Russia, he stated, is prepared to welcome Europe back into the process “if they return to reality.”
“Europe Is Not Ukraine” — A Warning Across the Continent
One line from the briefing reverberated far beyond Moscow: “Europe is not Ukraine. In Ukraine, we are acting with surgical precision.”
In Putin’s framing, Russia’s conduct in Ukraine is deliberately restrained — precise strikes, measured advances, an operation within a population Moscow expects to reintegrate. But for Europe’s political leadership, he suggested, this restraint should not be mistaken for the template of a wider conflict.
If European governments “suddenly start a war” with Russia, he said, the scale and tempo would be incomparable to the fighting in the Donbass. A major-power confrontation could eliminate diplomatic pathways within days. The message was directed not at Ukraine, but at Berlin, Brussels, and Paris: do not assume Moscow would fight Europe with the same limitations it has imposed upon itself in Ukraine.
It was less a threat than a blunt geopolitical reminder from a leader who believes the West no longer understands the stakes.
Hungary’s Alarm and Russia’s Response
Hungarian Foreign Minister Péter Szijjártó warned this week that Europe may be drifting into a wartime footing, citing NATO planning cycles extending to 2030. Putin dismissed the notion that Russia is preparing for war with Europe, reiterating that Moscow seeks no such confrontation — but would be “ready” if Europe initiated one.
The potential consequences, he implied, would unfold rapidly and unpredictably.
Maritime Tensions: The Tanker Attacks
Putin also addressed recent attacks on tankers near Türkiye, calling the events “piracy.” He signaled that Russia may broaden strikes against Ukrainian port infrastructure and — if the attacks continue — consider retaliatory actions against vessels belonging to nations assisting Ukraine in such operations.
A more extreme option is being examined: cutting Ukraine off from the sea entirely.
In a year marked by global uncertainty, Putin’s press conference offered a stark snapshot of how Moscow views the conflict’s trajectory — and how far Western and Russian perceptions have drifted apart. The Kremlin’s message was unmistakable: Russia believes it holds the battlefield advantage, is open to negotiations under certain conditions, and no longer takes Europe seriously as an independent strategic actor.
For policymakers across the Atlantic, the briefing may come to be seen as one of the clearest articulations yet of Russia’s current posture: confident, confrontational when provoked, and increasingly willing to test whether Europe’s political class is prepared for the consequences of its own rhetoric. ◼

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 2 2025 21:39 utc | 249

Just let NATO uniques try it………….RF will respond and it will not be pretty……..
NATO EU members in full scale panic mode now because their intell sources are giving them the very bad news that “Ukraine is falling” and rapidly so too.
Expect some harsh reactionary conduct when the Ukronazi house of cards actually collapses in a huge cloud of dust and the Ukronazi elites flee to Haifa and their multi million dollar ocean front condos.
More than likely they will attack Hungary and Serbia, the most friendly pro RF countries.  I expect that they will launch an invasion of Serb Bosnia with fascist Croatan troops in the lead, just like in 1995 when Croatan forces under NATO command crushed the Serb Republic of Krajina.  And another attack on Serb enclaves in Kosovo will also occur.  And attempt to cut off Hungary and Serbia from all petro supplies.  All reactionary conduct to the end of the Volo regime.

Posted by: tobias cole | Dec 2 2025 21:41 utc | 250

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 2 2025 21:30 utc | 245

Thanks for the chuckle and the reference to the legendary Tucker interview.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 2 2025 21:39 utc | 249

And this is great news.  I hope they really talked serious business.  Peacetime business and how to get there.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 2 2025 21:42 utc | 251

I’m still waiting for Zelenskiy to thank the Jewed-up Yankees and the Jewed-up Eurotrash for encouraging Ukraine to provoke Russia into destroying Ukraine as a functioning statelet.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 2 2025 21:43 utc | 252

Russian security sources: Ukrainian army units conduct nighttime torchlight parades
 
Some units of the Ukrainian armed forces are conducting nighttime formations by torchlight, accompanied by nationalist salutes.
 
This was reported to RIA Novosti by Russian security sources. “In some units of the Ukrainian army, formations are being held under the cover of night and by torchlight.
 
Prayers in Ukrainian, referred to as the ‘nationalist’s pledge,’ are recited, and the salute ‘from the heart to the sun’ is performed.”
 
Such a formation reportedly took place in the Dnipropetrovsk region, among other locations.
https://de.rt.com/international/131481-liveticker-ukraine-krieg/
 

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 2 2025 21:44 utc | 253

KimDotCom: BREAKING: Ukraine is developing nuclear weapons with the help of the UK and France
UPDATE: Martyanov just said that the Ukraine-nuke story is “BS.”
Knowing smoothiex12, he’ll also note that a viable delivery system is probably more important than just a weapon.

Posted by: Call it what u will | Dec 2 2025 21:51 utc | 254

Hope springs eternal for Mr Putin, all the talk is threatre and drama, the main goal of the west/US still remains destruction of the Russian state.
The hope for a grand bargian is just that hope, the real power in the west cannot be bought via the Russian money in Europe, the goal remains destruction of the Russian state.

Posted by: silverfoxes | Dec 2 2025 21:52 utc | 255

Oh dear! The Russians are coming, somebody do something, anyone, somebody, just so long as it is not our country, we can only make up confabulations and shout: “the Russians are coming”. Poor old NATOSTAN, disjunct, disunited, abandoned by daddy. 
 
How long has this crap been going on for?

Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Dec 2 2025 21:53 utc | 256

❗️🇷🇺💥🇺🇦🏴‍☠️ Geraniums⚠️⚠️⚠️ from Crimea to Odessa. To the ports.https://t.me/ZandVchannel/171530

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 2 2025 21:54 utc | 257

The nuclear story is yet another pressure point on Putin to negotiate or at least give him cover with his base/military for taking a sub optimal deal. Same with the tanker attacks

Posted by: Silverfoxes | Dec 2 2025 21:54 utc | 258

” Putin’s meeting with Witkoff has ended after roughly five hours, TASS reports.https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/166661
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 2 2025 21:39 utc | 249
 
 
Dont forget Chabad Kushner was there also. Maybe he was offering Putin beach front property in Gaza. 

Posted by: The Painter | Dec 2 2025 21:55 utc | 259

Comedy hour:  Ukraine gets caught using AI to create fake videos of UAF raising a Ukrainian flag in Pokrovsk:
 
https://youtu.be/aO6dZr_GB-I?t=917
 
They did such a sloppy job, Dima is laughing at them!
 
One wonders if they understand that this sort of amateur hour effort undermines their credibility … maybe they should redirect the energy towards something productive?

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 2 2025 21:56 utc | 260

Ермак был замечен на Покровском направлении 😂
Yermak was spotted on the Pokrovsky direction 😂

https://t.me/rsotmdivision/37154
 

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 2 2025 21:58 utc | 261

The nuclear story is yet another pressure point on Putin to negotiate 
Posted by: Silverfoxes | Dec 2 2025 21:54 utc | 259
 
Nonsense. Russia has 5,500 nukes, more than any other country.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 2 2025 21:59 utc | 262

Poor old NATOSTAN, disjunct, disunited, abandoned by daddy.
Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Dec 2 2025 21:53 utc | 257

😂😂😂  Huge daddy issues indeed in the greatest EU of all times.  Today even Belgian police was unleashed to uncover yet another EU corruption scandal.  How long will Ursula last?  Somebody live streaming a lettuce already?

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 2 2025 22:00 utc | 263

If Putin wipes the UK off the map, I’m in.
Posted by: Friul | Dec 2 2025 20:31 utc | 220
 
No need to dream of Death…it eventually comes for all of us. Give leave to the innocent, to enjoy their day in the sun.

Posted by: Original Newbie | Dec 2 2025 22:05 utc | 264

Why doesn’t the Orange God just command the skies to be shut down over Russia and Europe?

Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Dec 2 2025 22:06 utc | 265

“The conversation between Putin and Witkoff was constructive, very useful, and substantive,” said Russian President’s aide Usakov.
Usakov: “Compromises have not been found yet, and a meeting between the leaders of Russia and the USA is not planned at the moment. We discussed not specific formulations and solutions, but the essence. The parties see huge prospects for interaction.”
Usakov on the peaceful proposal by Trump regarding Ukraine: ‘We are ready to agree on something. Something caused criticism. But a useful discussion took place.’
Other statements from Usakov on the results of the meeting between Wittkoфф and Kushner with Putin:
– Moscow received four additional documents besides the original Trump plan for Ukraine resolution with 28 points.
– The meeting provided an opportunity to discuss further paths for resolution.
– The essence of the US plan for resolution was discussed, not specific proposals.
– The prospects for achieving a long-term peaceful resolution in Ukraine were discussed.
– The parties stated their willingness to continue joint work to achieve a resolution in Ukraine.
– Representatives of the US president conveyed greetings and best wishes from Trump to Putin.
– Putin conveyed greetings to Trump through Wittkoфф and a series of political signals.
– The possibility of a meeting between Putin and Trump will depend on the progress achieved on the path to resolution.
– Russia and the US agreed that they will not disclose the essence of the negotiations.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/149461
 

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 2 2025 22:07 utc | 266

The UK desperately desires to start a general war with Russia and involve NATO and US.
Why ?
Because its economy is cratering, its in massive government debt, taxes on the middle class are crushing,  its citizens are in open revolt over the wave of illegal immigration destroying its towns and villages, its press is now heavily censored, green utility rates are strangling businesses, and those who post on social media are being arrested for legit criticisms of this government.
A general war will distract the populace from the gross incompetence of the Sir Keir rump government. 

Posted by: tobias cole | Dec 2 2025 22:07 utc | 267

Friul@220…….you really can’t be serious, the UK consists of four countries, three of them are in bondage to the Whores in London. And Mr Putin would never ever attack England he knows better…..he can’t even name them as a major party to the war SMO…….mind you the Brits, the Whitehall ones want to attack Russia, even today whelping about attacking Russia, can you imagine……might I suggest as an effort to bring your wishes to fruition, please join me in my map making campaign for the Russian MOD and do circle just London, we conspiracy theorists call it The City, and I have kin and kith on that wretched piece soil, I’d prefer they be spared…….
 
……..and if one buys the Hazelnut hype, the Russians should step up, talk is cheap (except for front line Ukie) shit or get of the pot and plant some Hazelnuts in down town London, The City part……I don’t think the Russians have it in them……
 
Cheers M 

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 2 2025 22:10 utc | 268

Posted by: tobias cole | Dec 2 2025 22:07 utc | 268

Greetings to England!  Feel free to replace “Sir Keir” with “Merz-Schmerz” or “Micron”, and the “UK” with “Germany” or “France”, and you see why all three are on the same war mongering page.  Or: Why we share the same problems.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 2 2025 22:11 utc | 269

Military Situation In Ukraine On December 2, 2025 (Maps Update)

  • Russian strikes destroyed targets in Kharkiv, Mykolaiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Zaporizhzhia, Sumy, Chernihiv, Kherson and Odesa regions;
  • The Russian army struck a regional military logistics facility in Bolgrad, Odessa region;
  • The Russian army struck a gas facility and a UAV assembly point in Dnipropetrovsk;
  • The Russian offensive continues in the Seversk, Pokrovsk, Kupyansk, Dnipropetrovsk, and Zaporizhzhia directions;
  • Russian forces took control of Dobropolye;
  • Russian forces advanced towards Stepnogorsk;
  • Russian forces advanced towards Pokrovsk;
  • Russian forces advanced towards Volchansk;
  • Ukrainian losses amounted to approximately 1,400 troops over the past 24 hours.

https://southfront.press/military-situation-in-ukraine-on-december-2-2025-maps-update/
 

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 2 2025 22:13 utc | 270

Nervous German | Dec 2 2025 21:39 utc | 250
 
Thanks for that, but there was too much truth for that to be published here.
 
 psychohistorian | Dec 2 2025 21:19 utc | 240
 
Thanks for your reply. Yes, that’s exactly my interpretation. And yes, the French and British nukes are effectively useless. IMO, NATO will be shocked to discover Russia has emplaced something very similar to Trump’s Golden Dome, although I’m sure Russians have a better name for their missile defense shield. Russia’s huge advantage is that it can retaliate with hypersonic hits before the first NATO slavo begins to be shot down. Hopefully, Witkoff took good notes. Will this issue cause Trump to sever the Outlaw US Empire from NATO to avoid being seen as allied with an EU/NATO attack on Russia?

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 22:13 utc | 271

@ karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 22:13 utc | 272  —  Kindly accept my apologies, I try to do better next time.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 2 2025 22:19 utc | 272

Will this issue cause Trump to sever the Outlaw US Empire from NATO to avoid being seen as allied with an EU/NATO attack on Russia?
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 22:13 utc | 272
 
Trump “maybe” want to hand over the European supreme command of NATO to a European, possibly a German. Then the US would be completely out of the picture, as long as no one attacks the US, in which case Europe would be obliged to help, but not vice versa.But that’s probably just a “maybe” thought from Trump.
 

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 2 2025 22:24 utc | 273

I went with RT’s report, which echoes that provided by Norwegian | Dec 2 2025 22:07 utc | 267:
 

  • 22:00 GMT

    No compromises found as of yet, Russian presidential aide Yury Ushakov said after the meeting which lasted almost five hours. A meeting betweenPutin and Trump is not currently planned, he added.
    “We discussed the substance, not specific wording and solutions. The parties see enormous potential for cooperation,” Ushakov said.

     

  •  
  • I see that as very positive spin for a meeting that produced little of substance. 

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 22:29 utc | 274

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 2 2025 22:24 utc | 274

And history would come full circle, this time, of course, as a farce.  Picturing General Freuding following the footsteps of Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel signing the unconditional surrender in the very same location of Berlin Karlshorst like 1945… sounds great!

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 2 2025 22:29 utc | 275

[…]  the flying objects in South Limburg and Danish Billund were stars.
 
Nope. These were Freedom-Lovin-Aliens from The Dark Side of the Moon, who have allied themselves with the Russian Federation, scouting out the Baltic Sea Routes and all those … er.. Fine-Lookin Freedom-Lovin Scandinavians.
 
Pink Floyd – The Dark Side Of The Moon (50th Anniversary) [2023 Remaster] {Full Album}

Posted by: Don Firineach | Dec 2 2025 22:29 utc | 276

By decree, French private military societies are allowed to participate in foreign wars.
 
Go figure!
 
Russia will consider it as a direct participation of France if such society will come to Ukraine.
 
Psychopathies are quite common in western countries…

Posted by: Naive | Dec 2 2025 22:31 utc | 277

Wikoff wanted a ceasefire. Putin said no.
Five hours wasted
 
 He could have just read MoA instead. We would have told him
 
And no what’s next. A disaster. 

Posted by: Bingo | Dec 2 2025 22:32 utc | 278

You sit in your air conditioned offices and plant fake stories in the Washington Post
There is too the secondary effect, seen here and elsewhere on blogs worldwide, in which said stories are repeated if they happen to agree with the current jive, and otherwise panned as fake news. PS. does “air conditioning” including heating in this parlance (as it does in eg Australia)?, or is the remark just out of season for December?

Posted by: Call it what u will | Dec 2 2025 22:33 utc | 279

“in which case Europe would be obliged to help, but not vice versa.But that’s probably just a “maybe” thought from Trump. 
Posted by: smartfox | Dec 2 2025 22:24 utc | 274
 
No NATO nation is “obliged” to help. Its more of a suggestion. 
 

Article 5 – Collective Defense:

  • NATO’s founding treaty includes Article 5, which states that an attack on one member is considered an attack on all.
  • If Article 5 is invoked, member states are expected to assist, but the treaty does not specify exactly how each country must contribute. Assistance can range from military action to logistical or other support.
  • Essentially, there’s a political and moral obligation, but no automatic legal requirement for each member to send troops. ”

Posted by: The Painter | Dec 2 2025 22:33 utc | 280

What happens in Ukraine is not a war, it is a Special Military Operation.
 
The western idiots never understood it.
 
It looks like the western idiots want to see what is a war lead nowadays by Russia. Putin just said that Russia is ready.
 
Who wants to see how ready Russia is?
 
(I really think that those idiots believe their own lies.)
 
 

Posted by: Naive | Dec 2 2025 22:35 utc | 281

“I am reading Karl’s posting of Putin’s presser before the negotiations and I want to focus on one line 

If Europe suddenly decides to go to war against us and actually follows through with it, then a situation may arise very quickly where we will be left with no one to negotiate with.

Putin is saying, not so timidly, that if Europe attacks they will be wiped out immediately
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2025 21:19 utc | 240″————————————————————————-
The tiny smirk from the Russian President was delicious. 

Posted by: N_H | Dec 2 2025 22:35 utc | 282

  • or other support.

Posted by: The Painter | Dec 2 2025 22:33 utc | 281

 
More than likely moral support…

Posted by: Naive | Dec 2 2025 22:36 utc | 283

5 days ago · “Another 15 battalions are blocked on the left bank of the Oskol River – that’s 3,500 people,” Putin told reporters.

Posted by: Oui | Dec 2 2025 22:37 utc | 284

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 22:13 utc | 272
 
#####
 
Karl, you’re very smart and well-read. I don’t understand why you have the belief that Trump is independent of any power structure or, as Nigel Farage would say, “that there is a cigarette paper (very thin) of difference” between Europe and its colony, America.
 
America will never “sever” from Europe IMO. America will never remove troops from Italy and Germany. Not voluntarily, and any President trying to do so will be shot.
 
The sheer number of rice bowls (grafts) that would be compromised on both sides of the Atlantic is mind-boggling. America will sooner sever from Israel (another European colony) than it will from Western Europe.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 2 2025 22:37 utc | 285

Greetings to England!  Feel free to replace “Sir Keir” with “Merz-Schmerz” or “Micron”, and the “UK” with “Germany” or “France”, and you see why all three are on the same war mongering page.  Or: Why we share the same problems.
Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 2 2025 22:11 utc | 270
——————————————————————————————-
The problem is the ‘City of London’.   That’s why UK will be Russia’s first target … 
Germany and France are puppets.. Don’t you realize that this game was played to finance Hitler with the goal of destroying the Soviet Union??

Posted by: Friul | Dec 2 2025 22:38 utc | 286

– Russia and the US agreed that they will not disclose the essence of the negotiations.
Don’t worry, they will be leaked (or some alleged version of them will be), when it is useful for media-adjacent purposes.

Posted by: Call it what u will | Dec 2 2025 22:38 utc | 287

  • Rubio is not attending NATO  EU Foreign ministers meeting in ,Brussels tomorrow. Whatever that signifies.

Posted by: Jo | Dec 2 2025 22:39 utc | 288

“More than likely moral support…
Posted by: Naive | Dec 2 2025 22:36 utc | 284
 
Used helmets ? 

Posted by: The Painter | Dec 2 2025 22:40 utc | 289

Putin is saying, not so timidly, that if Europe attacks they will be wiped out immediately
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 2 2025 21:19 utc | 240″
 
It is necesary to know how this is presented to the european public: Russia is threatening the european countries.
 
They always systematically forget the “if“.
 
I guess it is valid also if any country attack Russia through Ukraine by sending troops there. See #278.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 2 2025 22:42 utc | 290

Nervous German | Dec 2 2025 22:19 utc | 273
 
Actually, your effort was very well crafted and took time to compose and deserved a better response. I see there’s something amiss in the reporting. RT said, “Ushakov has told the press that his American counterparts said they would be traveling back to the US and not through western Europe.” The Slavyangrad report above says, “Ushakov has told the press that his American counterparts said they would be traveling back to the US and not through western Europe. And TASS is now reporting:
 

US President Donald Trump’s Special Envoy Steve Witkoff and the American leader’s son-in-law Jared Kushner are set to meet with Vladimir Zelensky in a European country on December 3, Axios reported, citing sources.
According to the report, Witkoff and Kushner intend to discuss with Zelensky the results of their negotiations with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The news outlet did not specify the meeting location.

 
 
So, which one will be correct?

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 22:42 utc | 291

Essentially, there’s a political and moral obligation
Posted by: The Painter | Dec 2 2025 22:33 utc | 281
 
This too can be interpreted as an “obligation,” even if not a legal one. But in any case, it would be accompanied by a lot of media fanfare.
However, replacing the commander-in-chief would effectively spell the end of NATO, even if both parts were to retain their names.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 2 2025 22:42 utc | 292

240, I wonder if he means it might be enough  to oreshnik NATO hq Brussels and just the EU main HQ  building when all the politicians meet there plus MoD UK..Perhaps he might phone Orban and the Slovak guy say stay at home.

Posted by: Jo | Dec 2 2025 22:47 utc | 293

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 2 2025 22:37 utc | 286

It’s a tad more nuanced.  Stationing U.S. troops throughout European NATO countries is a wholly bilateral matter between the “host nation” and the U.S., technically and legally is has totally nothing to do with NATO.  NATO could go poof and it wouldn’t change the fact.  Take Ramstein Air Force Base, for example, which has been playing a major role in major U.S. overseas ops throughout the decades.  Legally owned by the German gov, technically operated and controlled by the Pentagon via U.S. Air Forces in Europe.  No NATO to see here, except for the flag pole gallery designed for public consumption.  Any non-U.S. NATO soldier, including Bundeswehr, coming there to work knows they are guests only.

Posted by: Nervous German | Dec 2 2025 22:47 utc | 294

So, which one will be correct?
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 22:42 utc | 292
 
Both, depends from source (TASS, Axos have not same source)

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 2 2025 22:49 utc | 295

Posted by: N_H | Dec 2 2025 22:35 utc | 283
 

If Europe suddenly decides to go to war against us and actually follows through with it, then a situation may arise very quickly where we will be left with no one to negotiate with.

This is not that unreasonable an interpretation. This is unfortunate, because the idea that Russia can win a nuclear exchange with EU not only assumes that the US military in Europe has no objection to dying. It assumes that Russia, as a society or a people or a nation, could win in any meaningful sense. Everyone loses in a nuclear exchange. The thought that the rulers will have Continuity of Government and the billionaires will have their bunkers and therefore they will survive, will win, is a thought suitable only to psychopaths. If this is what Putin meant, he is a soulless fool, whose mind may be rotted with arrogance because he’s been cunning enough to stay at the top of the greasy pole. 

Posted by: steven t johnson | Dec 2 2025 22:50 utc | 296

by: Jo | Dec 2 2025 22:39 utc | 289

As usual Rubio the neocon isn’t hanging around to clean up the his neocon friends have made, he’s off on the next war to make another mess.

Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Dec 2 2025 22:51 utc | 297

LoveDonbass | Dec 2 2025 22:37 utc | 286
 
Thanks for your reply. Everything is in flux and both sides are spinning as we see with Ushakov. At the top of the TASS English homepage there’s a photo being used in conjunction with this article about the talks; do note who’s missing, who’s included and then wonder about the level of seriousness employed during the discussion. IMO, we have a different version of keeping up appearances. 

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2025 22:54 utc | 298

22:19 GMT

The next summit between Putin and Trump will depend on the progress future talks achieve, Ushakov has said.
“A possible meeting at the presidential level will depend on how much progress we can make along this line,” he told journalists. “We will continue [talks] at the level of representatives and assistants.”

22:16 GMT

“Some American proposals are acceptable to Russia, while others are not,” the aide added. He noted that the territorial issue was also discussed at the meeting.
Responding to the question of whether peace had become closer or further following these talks, Ushakov said, “Definitely not further.”

  • 22:10 GMT

    Ushakov has told the press that his American counterparts said they would be traveling back to the US and not through western Europe.

  • 22:00 GMT

    No compromises found as of yet, Russian presidential aide Yury Ushakov said after the meeting which lasted almost five hours. A meeting betweenPutin and Trump is not currently planned, he added.
    “We discussed the substance, not specific wording and solutions. The parties see enormous potential for cooperation,” Ushakov said.

Posted by: smartfox | Dec 2 2025 22:54 utc | 299

254.  Hmmm torchlight Azov parades should show up well on the infrared target systems. De Nazification ……….check.

Posted by: Jo | Dec 2 2025 22:54 utc | 300