News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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November 23, 2025
Ukraine Open Thread 2025-270
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RepublicofScotland 2
cage match: Catherine Vautrin, Minister of The Armed Forces (France) Vs Maria Zakharova, spokeswoman for Putin.
I give it 30 secs, perhaps 1 minute into the first round, with Maria pounding the living bejaysus out of the santa-haired Mrs. Voltron.
Seriously, if I am to appoint a minister of my armed forces, that leads my warriors into battle, i want that minister to be able to sit st a long table of military soldiers, real warriors, and be able to kill at least 20% of any of the others in hand to hand combat. I don’t want Ms. Marple, or any of the Golden Gals. And yes, it’s f’cking important.
Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Nov 24 2025 9:51 utc | 201
I don’t think this rumor is true.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 24 2025 9:41 utc | 198
—
The way that banking works is that assets are securitized as collateral for loans. It is practically impossible to immunise assets from securitization. While the Russian deposits with Euroclear have themselves not yet been confiscated you can be sure that they are being used as collateral for loans that have no chance of being repaid at par.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 24 2025 9:55 utc | 202
Posted by: too scents | Nov 24 2025 9:55 utc | 202
The way that banking works is that assets are securitized as collateral for loans.
Myself and canuck corrected you on this but you insist. Securitization has bounds, you cann’t securitize loans with assets without consent from the assets owners. In other words, no investor with money to loan would sign a loan contract in which the signature of the owner of the collateral is not present.
You should read this too, from cue1:
Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 18:24 utc | 486
I actually do forensic accounting, among other things including a great deal of financial crime investigation. I understand far better than what you [smartfox] think you know.The reality is that any use of funds, for which the owner does not agree to, is fraud.The EU governments putting up the frozen CBR assets as collateral for loans, without the express written consent of the Russian government, is fraudulent by the EU’s own laws. Even were the EU to change its own laws, the EU’s laws do not override the West’s own international sovereign rights of nations…and the CBR is a sovereign institution over which EU laws do not apply. This is why the EU tried to get Belgium to lean on Euroclear, a Belgian company, to do the theft via the Belgium national authority over a Belgian company route.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 24 2025 10:08 utc | 203
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 24 2025 9:04 utc | 194
Guess who was managing Gadafi’s Lybia central bank funds that “mysteriously disappeared” in 2011 ?
Posted by: Savonarole | Nov 24 2025 10:26 utc | 204
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 24 2025 9:41 utc | 198
Sadly Euroclear is but a corporation and nothing more. It is in the end beholden to the Belgian government ,at least de jure, and who in Belgium will stand up to the might of the EU and US. At least Switzerland supposedly had xojones in WWII ,threatening to mix up all accounts if Hitler invaded them, or so the story goes .
- Posted by: unimperator | Nov 24 2025 6:48 utc | 185
Posted by: woebegone | Nov 24 2025 10:31 utc | 205
you cann’t securitize loans with assets without consent from the assets owners.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 24 2025 10:08 utc | 203
—
I’ve been in the back-offices of Private Banks across Europe and know how dark pools and other practices are used to hide both beneficiaries and obligators. I help to set up many such systems. I can’t say more without putting myself into all sorts of jeopardy.
The primary thing to keep in mind is that money is fungible.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 24 2025 10:32 utc | 206
@too scents | Nov 24 2025 8:59 utc | 193
Warwick Powell’s essay is very good.
Yes, it is. It draws parallels to Vietnam that I wasn’t aware of. The US knew in 1965 that the war was lost, but they used a decade to deny it at the cost of millions of lives, only to lose in a very public way in 1975.
I liked the passage below, I read it as Russian Jiu-Jitsu. The West intended to separate Russia from China but ends up “widening the transatlantic fracture”.
The EU’s assorted utterances are performative because Europe cannot fight the war without American intelligence and American munitions. Moscow knows this, and by playing Hardball with Washington, Russia is systematically widening the transatlantic fracture.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 24 2025 10:36 utc | 207
- Posted by: unimperator | Nov 24 2025 6:48 utc | 185
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We heard this about the mercs in the past , but lo and behold, they quietly did nothing , and left them uintegrated with the home-grown cannon-fodder . Who can believe what Zio Ukro Nazi govs say anyway? The leaders now bleat with high -sounding words but it all comes down to them scared to go onto the front line. They like it better away from bullets shot in anger. Much better to be away from the action, and just shooting tired scared recruits on the run .
Posted by: woebegone | Nov 24 2025 10:38 utc | 208
- Painter , very disappointed in you for referring me to some click baitish site re zaharova. Just fn tell us why she supposedly wears the Star of David. Can u do that , mate ?
Posted by: woebegone | Nov 24 2025 10:48 utc | 209
Naive (50).
No not surprised – just very disheartened by EU leaders choices right now.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 24 2025 11:03 utc | 210
I think it was Larry Johnson the other day said that the Jewish organise crime gang were taking a 30%. The Biden admin thought that a bit steep so Blinky told the green grub to cut it back to 20%…200 by Peter
It wouldn’t surprise me, if the final level of Ukrainian corruption ended up as a fibonicci percentage of total aid…
- 23.6%
- 38.2%
- 50%
- 61.8%
Posted by: Fredrick | Nov 24 2025 11:03 utc | 211
The primary thing to keep in mind is that money is fungible.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 24 2025 10:32 utc | 206
I had to look that up. That sill did not give me an idea of how money is fungible. I have been aware of the massive financial scams for some time, but like physics, big boys economics is out of my league
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2025 11:05 utc | 212
RUAF entered Gulyapole from the east. It should collapse soon, considering it’s already cut off far to the north.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 24 2025 11:11 utc | 214
unimperator | Nov 24 2025 11:11 utc | 214
Nato has run out of cannon fodder. Zelensky’s speech to the nation the other day will only speed up the collapse that has occurred on the battlefield.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2025 11:21 utc | 215
Last straw sort of stuff but its definitely on the table.
Posted by: eps | Nov 23 2025 23:35 utc | 138
I don’t think so.
It would require NATO to assemble enough infantry (600000) to secure the front line that it would take over from the AFU. Russia would “probably” notice this beforehand.
Of course, the whole thing would not be directed against Russia itself, but rather something like the meeting between Russia and the US in Germany during the Second World War. NATO would therefore only declare war on Ukraine, also because Russia has not attacked, and therefore Article 5 does not come into effect (of course, the actions of the USA are not governed by articles).
However, it would not be easy to create a threat from Ukraine.
Long-range weapons come from NATO and require its personnel and ISR, and an invasion because of that would be difficult to justify to Russia.
Ukrainian ground forces would have to be of sufficient size to be credible, for Fürther NATO actions. And then Iskander would come into play… The Ukrainian attack army would therefore have to be deployed directly in Poland.
Posted by: BlindSpot | Nov 24 2025 11:26 utc | 216
Ukrainian Fighters Shoot Each Other In Unprecedented Humiliation For Zelensky Amid Battlefield Chaos
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t4_hgInaOcA
Posted by: Dogon priest | Nov 24 2025 11:46 utc | 217
…
Posted by: BlindSpot | Nov 24 2025 11:26 utc | 216
But something like that can’t happen unnoticed and takes time. Just think of the deployment and movement of units. After all, they don’t suddenly fall from the sky. And the Russians are certainly not going to take a nap while that’s happening.So: fantasy, imagination.
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 11:47 utc | 218
Posted by: too scents | Nov 24 2025 10:32 utc | 206
https://english.nv.ua/business/euroclear-warns-it-may-sue-eu-if-frozen-russian-assets-are-seized-for-ukraine-50561204.html
Valérie Urbain, CEO of Euroclear. Russian assets are sitting there in full and threatens to sue the EU. You guys are spreading cheap and short-lived rumors originated in some cubicle and intended to cope with defeat. Stop spreading rumors. If you cannot substantiate your silly claims then don’t do it.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 24 2025 11:56 utc | 219
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 24 2025 10:08 utc | 203
Good post, thanks
Posted by: canuk | Nov 24 2025 11:58 utc | 220
Russian assets are sitting there in full
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 24 2025 11:56 utc | 219
—
Sure they are. They are part of the float against which risk is managed.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 24 2025 12:08 utc | 221
A reminder April 2022
Another disagreement was over the size of Ukraine’s military. The Ukrainians wanted a peacetime army of 250,000; the Russians demanded a maximum of 85,000, which is much smaller than the standing army Ukraine had before the invasion.[42] The Russians also demanded severe limits on the amount and kinds of weaponry Ukraine could have, without any limits on Russia’s military.[42]
Posted by: Jo | Nov 24 2025 12:10 utc | 222
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 24 2025 9:41 utc | 198
Johan – the interest has been used or borrowed against. Possibly other frozen assets outside Euroclear used including frozen private assets. None of that except for the use of the interest is confirmed. And as you say, the rumours are just that.
But a quick dip into official papers does show we Europeans have got ourselves in pretty deep:-
“The EU also provides support through guarantees, issued by financial institutions, such as the EIB and EBRD. This will enable the Ukrainian government to provide credit and allows companies to offer vital services.”
https://commission.europa.eu/topics/eu-solidarity-ukraine/eu-assistance-ukraine/eu-financial-support-ukraine_en
“To finance the loans to Ukraine, the European Union will raise up to €33 billion on the financial market until end of 2027 by issuing EU bonds under the unified funding strategy. “
https://commission.europa.eu/topics/eu-solidarity-ukraine/eu-assistance-ukraine/ukraine-facility_en
On the UK side, though again only a quick dip:-
“we are contributing £2.26 billion to the G7 ‘Extraordinary Revenue Acceleration’ Loans for Ukraine, to be repaid using profits generated by seized Russian assets. Two thirds of the UK’s contribution has been disbursed to Ukraine (14 April 2025)”
“the UK therefore expects to provide £4.5 billion in support of Ukraine this year – more than in any previous year (16 January 2025)”
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-support-to-ukraine-factsheet/uk-support-to-ukraine-factsheet
There are also funds made available through the UK/Ukraine Hundred Year Partnership Agreement:-
“Today’s announcement builds on the £12.8 billion package of support the UK has given Ukraine, including £7.8bn of military assistance, a commitment for £3bn in military aid until as long as it takes, and ongoing energy infrastructure support to help hospitals and community facilities provide light and warmth to innocent civilians impacted by Putin’s invasion.” Three billion per annum, that is.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-ukraine-sign-landmark-100-year-partnership-to-deepen-security-ties-and-strengthen-partnership-for-future-generations.
“Until as long as it takes” is an open-ended commitment. Presumably the agreement would be terminated on the six month’s notice were any peace agreement to be signed by the EU/UK/Ukraine.
As mentioned here previously there are also substantial corporate and private investments in Ukraine. Unscrambling all these bonds, loans, grants, guarantees and investments would be necessary should the EU/UK sign a peace agreement. Not just Trump’s current proposed agreement, which is a bit of PR nonsense, but any peace agreement.
That’s a strong incentive not to agree to any peace agreement. Better to claim force majeure on as much as possible after the defeat. Sweep it all under the carpet and blame the Americans for failing to keep their end of the bargain. Which the UK press has been doing for some time anyway. “My job is to keep Ukraine in the fight”, said a British cabinet minister not long back. With that overhang of financial commitments that’s the only course open to him. Same for our EU allies.
“b’s” got some financial experts here who’ve done a much better job of looking at the muddle. To me, it just looks like the usual thieves’ kitchen but on a larger than usual scale. And eventually the “Indignant from Tunbridge Wells” characters will be asking why we’ve got ourselves into hock foisting an extremist government on the citizens of a country a thousand miles away and backing that government to this extent. Instead of dealing with the increasing number of potholes Indignant has to drive around every day.
Though if the proxy war fever can be ramped up, and we’re seeing that attempted at the moment, Indignant will be too busy screaming “Russia delenda est” to bother with fiddly details like that. Rough on the Ukrainian PBI though, fighting like heroes still to pull the EU/UK/Kiev chestnuts out of the fire. Dulce et decorum est pro grifters mori.
But forget all that. The grifters do. Try looking at it from the grifters’ point of view instead. Back in the office it’s a difficult time for Merz and Starmer. Some very nasty bills looming, Trump letting them down, the Russians plodding on with the “demilitarisation and denazification” they’re after, and their own voters looking sideways at them. The grifters’ predicament reminds me of the time I got into trouble with the tractor on an unexpectedly icy hill. What else can you do but give it full throttle and hope?
Posted by: English Outsider | Nov 24 2025 12:16 utc | 223
Jeez Guys, if none of you are going to talk about the EU proposal…….
I was actually surprized by it, overall. Sure, it still has some delusional stuff in it but OTOH, they want Russia back in the G8. I wonder why. They may be willing to finally talk about security guarantees across Europe (yeah, promises…). There has never been a better time in human history for non aggression pacts to actually work because of technology. I think Russia should offer money and resources to Ukraine for rebuilding but do it on an individual basis. Ukrainians would have to apply and line up to get a check or whatever. No corruption/theft nonsense. That could produce some howls but Russia could build good will and riff off all the crazy graft in Ukraine.
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 24 2025 12:43 utc | 224
Posted by: watcher | Nov 24 2025 8:51 utc | 192
————————–
The sources of Louis are “the Military Show” YT channel (he confirmed himself that this source is the most credible). According to this source, Ukraine is winning.
Hence don’t be surprised when he states the the European plan is the most clement Russia could get. Don’t forget: Russia is heavily losing, so they are expecting clemence from the winners.
Posted by: scc | Nov 24 2025 12:58 utc | 225
“It would require NATO to assemble enough infantry (600000) to secure the front linePosted by: BlindSpot | Nov 24 2025 11:26 utc | 216”
Countries like France/Uk/Germany can probably come up with 2000 troops each, motivated by juicy risk (suicide) bonus. That’s… er… 1%. Then, after 3 days, they’ve run out of ammo and they haven’t seen the enemy yet, only drones and flying body parts. I think these mighty Nato armies got their lessons during the Kursk clean up.When they were getting cleaned up.
For all Nato troops, it is much easier (and safer) to organise a palace coup to get rid of their cocaine-addict homosexual leader. Underground, there is a fabulous red wine reserve and foie gras and shitloads of caviar. Not mud and land mines and skulls and putrefied remains.
Posted by: Asian Frog | Nov 24 2025 13:03 utc | 226
Posted by: woebegone | Nov 24 2025 10:31 utc | 205
What you say is undoubtedly true, but doesn’t answer the question ‘and then what?’
Change the law, make it somehow not theft, crush Euroclear. Fine.
Anyone with money to invest and two functioning brain cells will be sucking it out of Europe as we speak…
Posted by: ChatNPC | Nov 24 2025 13:39 utc | 227
Moscow has descended into chaos, as the conflict has reached the Russian capital. A great number of residents are frightened after a large group of about seventy six drones managed to strike the Shatura power station, which provides energy to the city.
This is not a test. On 23 November, Ukraine broke through what the Kremlin described as its protective shield, interrupting electricity for around one fifth of the metropolitan area and leaving many people in the cold and without light.
Ukrainian drones avoided the S-400 air defence system and heavuly damaged a major power facility of about 1500 megawatts.Many people are afraid as airports such as Vnukovo and Zhukovsky suspend activity and heating networks fail during severe winter conditions.Expensive radar systems were unable to block low cost drones, allowing repeated strikes in the sky above Moscow.
Ukraine gave the world a powerful message: Russia is vulnerable and President Putin is struggling to maintain control.
Large parts of Moscow are without electricity. The idea of a protected area has disappeared. A harsh winter phase of the conflict has begun.
Posted by: Louis | Nov 24 2025 13:49 utc | 228
Posted by: ChatNPC | Nov 24 2025 13:39 utc | 226
That would also be a violation of international law. But vdL has often demonstrated that law and legislation only matter to her when it is to her own advantage. So: theoretically possible, but extremely difficult and with incalculable financial and legal consequences for the EU.
But Trump’s draft is poisoned anyway. It would establish a stalemate for Russia without the Black Sea coast (and thus without Odessa), enabling a British location (however that may be named and disguised) and providing Russia with a constant flank for attacks on many important positions. = A complicated form of suicide for Russia.
If Putin agrees to this, Russia must already be facing massive problems. It would be tantamount to a de facto victory for the US.
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 13:52 utc | 229
@watcher 192
The sources of Louis are “the Military Show” YT channel (he confirmed himself that this source is the most credible). According to this source, Ukraine is winning.Hence don’t be surprised when he states the the European plan is the most clement Russia could get. Don’t forget: Russia is heavily losing, so they are expecting clemence from the winners.
His responses are basically a summary of what I can get from multiple US propaganda sites / blogs / comment sections. From what I can tell, a majority of Americans agree with his view of things.
Posted by: Woke American | Nov 24 2025 14:11 utc | 230
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 13:52 utc | 228
Putin will not be allowed to agree to it.
(Notwithstanding that the peace plan seems mainly structured to harm Ukraine and the Europeans.)
Posted by: ChatNPC | Nov 24 2025 14:14 utc | 231
JF: Alastair Crooke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbp8g70LcS8
“28-point plan is bait and switch.”
‘Zelensky Said It Best in March 2022…’
https://x.com/aaronmate/status/1991921293088915702
“There are those in the West who don’t mind a long war because it would mean exhausting Russia, even if this means the demise of Ukraine and comes at the cost of Ukrainian lives.’
He was referring to those currently freaking out over the demise of their proxy war.”
Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 24 2025 14:14 utc | 232
” Posted by: woebegone | Nov 24 2025 10:48 utc | 209 ”
My apologies for your disappointment good sir. Let me quickly skip and fetch the info you desire master.
Posted by: The Painter | Nov 24 2025 14:15 utc | 233
Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 24 2025 14:14 utc | 231
Zelensky also said the west has to pay a ‘rent’ for the war. If there’s no ‘rent’, there’s no war.
This was at a time after the failed AFU 2023 counter-offensive, when – first USA – then EU started having waning interest in funding Ukraine.
One could also argue the major failure of 2023 counter-offensive partially helped Trump win.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 24 2025 14:16 utc | 234
Alastair Crooke (corrected)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbpBg70LcS8
Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 24 2025 14:17 utc | 235
Allowing the UK RN covert naval base to exist in Odessa will never be acceptable to RF.
Therefore RF will never agree to any plan that does not include RF control of Odessa, and all Black Sea ports, and the land bridge to Transnistria (without that land bridge Transnistria will be invaded and conquered just like the Krajina or Kosovo).
But no worry, the Ukronazis will either reject the 28 point plan anyway, or add EU poison pills, giving RF to green light to finish the job……..
Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 24 2025 14:24 utc | 236
Posted by: Woke American | Nov 24 2025 14:11 utc | 229
My experience is that you are correct. To the extent that Americans think about Ukraine at all anymore, they think the Ukrainians are routing the Russians. And when all the razzle-dazzle of the magic show put on by the American MSM clears, and the Ukrainians are completely finished, they will wonder how it happened. And then when the next bunch of war-bound bullshit crops up in their favorite media, they will AGAIN fall for it hook line and sinker, and I will again find myself saying, ‘they lied to you about Korea. They lied to you about Vietnam. They lied about Iran in ‘79. They lied about incubator deaths in ‘91. They lied about 9/11. They lied about Iraq. But I’m sure they’re telling you the truth this time.’ And I will be met by the same blank stare a dog gives you when you show them a card trick. Americans are marks, and the grifters who run our government know it well.
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 24 2025 14:29 utc | 237
If Putin agrees to this, Russia must already be facing massive problems. It would be tantamount to a de facto victory for the US.
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 13:52 utc | 228
######
If/when Putin does not agree, wouldn’t that signal NATO weakness and Russian strength?
Or does all of this exist in a bubble of Western victory?
A victory, which btw, has yet to manifest on the battlefield after 3 years.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 24 2025 14:50 utc | 238
Woke American @ 229
Caveman @ 236
Absolutely. The number of Americans who are even able to process anything appearing on this page is small. We think they are living in a fantasy and they think we are delusional and disloyal.
Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 24 2025 14:51 utc | 239
Note to above – “Indignant of Tunbridge Wells” an adaptation of “Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells” of an earlier time.
https://www.disgustedoftunbridgewells.co.uk/
“Tunbridge Wells” is not here regarded as a geographical location but as an archetype. I don’t know the German equivalent but in the Wilsberg TV series they were always somewhat dismissive of Bielefeld so maybe Bielefeld will do. Though to complicate matters there are some Germans who claim that Bielefeld itself is an artfully constructed fiction. Tunbridge Wells is not. Though I’ve never been there to check …
Back to the grift. I omitted a sentence that shows the EU has also been using or borrowing against the interest on Russian assets.
“This loan cooperation mechanism is to be financed by extraordinary revenues stemming from immobilised Russian sovereign assets. €18.1 billion of this exceptional MFA has been disbursed to Ukraine so far.”
https://commission.europa.eu/topics/eu-solidarity-ukraine/eu-assistance-ukraine/eu-financial-support-ukraine_en
Doesn’t sound a lot but put it all together and as the US Senator said, ““A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you’re talking real money.”
Posted by: English Outsider | Nov 24 2025 14:51 utc | 240
@ Louis 227
Large parts of Moscow are without electricity.
Lol. I live in Moscow, you’re a clown!Though it’s true that the Shatura power station ha been hit by drones, the power supply was not interrupted. However, the central heating system was temporarily shut down, therefore 20 mobile heating units had been dispatched to the district, that has been affected. A few thousand people had temporarily been without heating – in a city of 16 million habitants.
Posted by: Ronald McDonald | Nov 24 2025 14:56 utc | 241
A victory, which btw, has yet to manifest on the battlefield after 3 years.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 24 2025 14:50 utc | 237
Wrong point. Whether it’s one day or ten years, it depends on what the goal is and what the circumstances are. So “three years” doesn’t mean anything; it’s just the thinking of PC video game strategists who want to see short-term action without considering the bigger picture.
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 14:56 utc | 242
Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 24 2025 14:51 utc | 238
I had a friend tell me, after 8 years of me predicting this war, that no one could have predicted this war. It’s almost like they are incapable of listening. When I pointed out that I had been predicting this war for almost a decade, he had nothing to say. Same friend is incapable of producing links to what he reads that is telling him Ukraine is winning. He cannot do it. It’s really troubling to see people who are so smart in so many ways act so stupid when it comes to, for lack of a better phrase, ‘supporting the team.’ Unable to realize that politics are not sports (because they are both presented the same way on television), these people back their ‘team’ right or wrong, without realizing the owners of the ‘team’ don’t give a shit about them, and further more, back them only into a corner to steal their wages. It’s honestly infuriating.
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 24 2025 15:02 utc | 243
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 14:56 utc | 241
#####
If the goal of the West is to die and bleed out economically, they are doing great getting their butts kicked daily for years.
To offer a quote from Glengarry Glenn Ross, “a loser is a loser”.
What is the Western goal? How has their progress been at achieving it?
Flip it around, the Russians are crushing their goal of demilitarization.
At this rate, denazification seems inevitable.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 24 2025 15:04 utc | 244
I wonder if Louis knows that we can tell his posts are AI written…I mean look at this sensationalist wording — “Moscow has descended into chaos, as the conflict has reached the Russian capital. A great number of residents are frightened after a large group of about seventy six drones managed to strike the Shatura power station, which provides energy to the city.This is not a test. On 23 November, Ukraine broke through what the Kremlin described as its protective shield, interrupting electricity for around one fifth of the metropolitan area and leaving many people in the cold and without light.Ukrainian drones avoided the S-400 air defence system and heavuly damaged a major power facility of about 1500 megawatts.Many people are afraid as airports such as Vnukovo and Zhukovsky suspend activity and heating networks fail during severe winter conditions.Expensive radar systems were unable to block low cost drones, allowing repeated strikes in the sky above Moscow.Ukraine gave the world a powerful message: Russia is vulnerable and President Putin is struggling to maintain control.Large parts of Moscow are without electricity. The idea of a protected area has disappeared. A harsh winter phase of the conflict has begun.” — this is the sort of language you use when you describe the Battle of Hoth or the Federation defeat at Wolf 359, not a news article. ChatGPT must weep every time he prompts it.
Posted by: Stark | Nov 24 2025 15:04 utc | 245
Could this be one of the major reason why the EU bigwigs want to keep the war going.
Alternative News (@AlternatNews): “US peace plan bankrupts Europe. $100bn of the $300bn in frozen Russian assets are to be used for US-led reconstruction efforts in Ukraine, with the remainder invested in joint projects between Washington and Moscow. This would force the EU to reimburse all diverted Russian funds and repay all loans. Bankrupt!” | nitter.poast.org
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 24 2025 15:15 utc | 246
At this rate, denazification seems inevitable.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 24 2025 15:04 utc | 243
There will be no denazification. Perhaps a reduction, but ideologies and fanaticism cannot be eradicated like seeds in the wind. It takes at least three generations for something like that to truly disappear from people’s minds, unless it is repeatedly resown through sustained propaganda.
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 15:20 utc | 247
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 24 2025 15:02 utc | 242
Pretty much matches my experience. I gave up trying to explain it to people years ago. Some of them just get mad at you or conclude that you’re some kind of subversive nut. A few I’ve known are wealthy and have been comfortable for most of their lives and they are almost completely detached from the truth about foreign affairs and the domestic economy.
Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 24 2025 15:21 utc | 248
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 15:20 utc | 246
#####
While you choose pedantry, I am pleased that you’re not disputing that Russia is destroying NATO.
Russia weak. 😂😂😂
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 24 2025 15:28 utc | 249
Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 24 2025 15:21 utc | 247
Same. It just turns into a blowout argument where we both lose respect for each other. I have ceased discussing Ukraine with that friend. Honestly got sick of being called a Putin fanboy for thinking that he’s Russia’s problem (if indeed they see him that way at all) and not America’s. It’s also infuriating to know that Putin is a result of American (specifically Democrat!) meddling in Russia in the 90s. I believe in people charting their own path forward and not having interference from the outside. All America does is interfere, and it should be obvious but here we are…
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 24 2025 15:31 utc | 250
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 24 2025 15:31 utc | 250
Yeah. Mind your own business and take care of your own people, unless you are attacked or a clear genocide is occurring. Deal fairly and openly with foreign countries. Protect and care for your citizens and always put their well-being first. It’s difficult but it isn’t complicated.
Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 24 2025 15:38 utc | 251
While you choose pedantry, I am pleased that you’re not disputing that Russia is destroying NATO.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 24 2025 15:28 utc | 249
Russia cannot “destroy” NATO. It may render it obsolete, but it cannot destroy it.You cannot “destroy” a skat club either, as long as there are at least three members.
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 15:39 utc | 252
Hope this hasn’t been posted already, but it’s too good to miss: https://usa.news-pravda.com/world/2025/11/23/563745.html
“Estonian Foreign Minister Margus Tsakhkna said that if the United States wants to maintain relations with Estonia, it should stop all ties with Russia.”
Didn’t they also threaten China two weeks ago with cutting off relations? This is Kaiser Wilhelm tier political maneuvering: open fronts everywhere for no reason and with no gain. Estonia is yapping at everyone while holding zero leverage or clout or even matter to anyone at all.
Posted by: Hamburger | Nov 24 2025 15:42 utc | 253
“At this rate, denazification seems inevitable.”
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 24 2025 15:04 utc | 243
“There will be no denazification. Perhaps a reduction, but ideologies and fanaticism cannot be eradicated like seeds in the wind. It takes at least three generations for something like that to truly disappear from people’s minds, unless it is repeatedly resown through sustained propaganda.”
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 15:20 utc | 247
Dumbass, as usual is way off course-he/she/they does not understand that material objects are not mental models. Mental models can never be fully destroyed-they can, as you mentioned, be forgotten.
The Pharisees killed Jesus, but they didn’t kill Christianity did they?
.
Posted by: canuk | Nov 24 2025 15:45 utc | 254
Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 24 2025 15:38 utc | 251
Exactly. If you treat people with respect, you can expect to be actually respected in return. If you demand respect under duress, you will get it until there’s a critical mass of people being threatened. We are just about at the critical mass right now. I hope the new world being born is a better one for the average person, be they American, German, Russian, Ukrainian, etc.
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 24 2025 15:46 utc | 255
Sean Foo: ‘China Pulls The Trigger’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgZnmj2q9Qk
“China banks all dumping USD assets as US carves up seized Russian reserves.”
Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 24 2025 15:53 utc | 256
@ canuk | Nov 24 2025 15:45 utc | 254
You clearly haven’t understood what I wrote, since you’re saying the opposite. That, combined with your arrogant, insulting, rude choice of words, puts you on the same level as a hooligan. A loudmouth from the gutter.
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 15:55 utc | 257
If you treat people with respect, you can expect to be actually respected in return.
Certain groups ( up front the US ) do not understand “respect”. ( ok, they talk quite a bit using the word. but afaics no real idea about the concept.
being respectfull just leads to them going for rear access.
Posted by: MAKK | Nov 24 2025 15:58 utc | 258
” Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 24 2025 15:15 utc | 246 ”
That would be totally in line with this plan.
Practical Idealism In Action – The Kalergi Plan
Posted by: The Painter | Nov 24 2025 16:00 utc | 259
No not surprised – just very disheartened by EU leaders choices right now.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 24 2025 11:03 utc | 210
Look, their mission is to allow the Rothschild to put their hands on the ressources of the Russian Federation.
Almost nothing will stop them, except war. For they know that they are no match to the Russians who have increased their war potential like never before.
Greed against fear. My guess is that fear will be stronger. They are still very much afraid to send troops on the front. Those troops have no experience of how the Russians wage war. It would be like killing fields.
One of the last videos I saw was about an ambush where the last men of a yankee patrol were liquidated by a Russian with a pistol. Go figure.
While you choose pedantry, I am pleased that you’re not disputing that Russia is destroying NATO.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 24 2025 15:28 utc | 249
In November the Russians destroyed materials and infrastructure like never before. And already massive strikes are going to happen tonight.
The Pharisees killed Jesus, but they didn’t kill Christianity did they?
Posted by: canuk | Nov 24 2025 15:45 utc | 254
You ignorance is exceptional. The Romans executed Yeshua as a criminal with two of his accomplices. Yeshua was a jew and he had nothing to do with xianity which is a Greek religion introduced by Marcio around 900 auc.
Posted by: MAKK | Nov 24 2025 15:58 utc | 258
I think we’re making the same point but from 2 different angles. The U.S. has no respect for anyone and will act accordingly. But there will one day be a critical mass of people who have been ‘backdoored’, and they will teach the US respect eventually. The exception is probably Europe, who will play the role of sniveling, groveling underling for the foreseeable future, and will have to be taught respect themselves. They enjoy the backdooring they get.
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 24 2025 16:33 utc | 263
For all the people whining about “denazification” , well , you don’t understand where it came from, what it means , how it went at the time and why is was important in context to remind people about it with this phrasing.
It came from Potsdam agreement text (Point 2 A, 1 and a) , it doesn’t mean “ideological suppression” but rather kick it out of any power position, it didn’t end up exactly as planned with a lot of “ex-nazi” staying in office or being “recycled” and it was essentially designed to curb any German idea of revenge or military adventurism. This agreement was signed when it was important for the allies to “share” Germany and let the least possible part to the Soviets. (Any resemblance with present situation is fortuitous :p )
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Potsdam_Agreement
And we all know who did save “the nazi” to re-use them as soon as “fight against communism” was a thing anew …
Anyway ; this is history and should be widely known, I wonder why I have to remind this … Did propaganda works so well to erase history or are you simply not curious ?
Posted by: Savonarole | Nov 24 2025 16:42 utc | 264
Posted by: Hamburger | Nov 24 2025 15:42 utc | 253
“Estonian Foreign Minister Margus Tsakhkna said that if the United States wants to maintain relations with Estonia, it should stop all ties with Russia.”
Thanks for that, Hamburger. I needed a good laugh, and that was it. A fortune could be made running self-awareness courses in that scummy country, if you could stand to live there.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 24 2025 16:43 utc | 265
@ Naive @262
Please read about this guy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus
and deign actualize your beliefs. Please do.
His masterwork is available, deign read it too. I did.
First time I post here, but I couldn’t really stand the assertive ignorance I was reading.
Posted by: Random Reader | Nov 24 2025 16:45 utc | 266
Caveman @ 243
Saint Jimmy
Sadly it is this way all the way up. Being a three-star or SES or tenured at a major uni does not get better information for anyone. Those who do have better information are mostly wholly isolated from any decision making. Presumably Rothschilds and such have real information, their minions and underlings are all in the dark.
Putting together a capable negotiation team would be completely impossible. Those who have the capability would all be total outsiders
Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 24 2025 16:52 utc | 267
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 15:39 utc | 252
#####
Again, pedantry is incapable of fashioning an intelligent argument for you.
When all you have is word games, your cause is lost. The Americans are finding that out.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 24 2025 16:57 utc | 268
Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 24 2025 16:52 utc | 267
I think you’re right on. There was a time when those in power didn’t believe their own propaganda, but we are at a point where all those holding any power in the US are steeped in it. They actually believe it. It would be almost impossible to find someone who holds power and is also a participant in reality. Maybe we should take the power away from them. If we stop clapping for Tinkerbell (by no longer taking part in their economy of fictitious capital and by building structures for community care outside of official government channels), then Tinkerbell dies. I’m trying to kill her myself, but the sound of applause around me is thunderous.
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 24 2025 17:00 utc | 269
@ Naive @262Please read about this guy:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeusand deign actualize your beliefs. Please do.His masterwork is available, deign read it too. I did.First time I post here, but I couldn’t really stand the assertive ignorance I was reading.
Posted by: Random Reader | Nov 24 2025 16:45 utc | 266
Thank you.
Every fight against ideology, superficial knowledge, and ignorance is worthwhile.
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 17:00 utc | 270
” xianity which is a Greek religion introduced by Marcio around 900 auc.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 24 2025 16:21 utc | 262 ”
Although, Marcio was renounced and the new religion quickly coopted.
Posted by: The Painter | Nov 24 2025 17:11 utc | 271
Posted by: Random Reader | Nov 24 2025 16:45 utc | 266
I don’t need to read. He is from the same period and the same area as Marcio. Nothing to do with the jews.
And it is not about belief, but about history.
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 24 2025 17:00 utc | 270
How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and how hard it is to undo that work again!
Mark Twain
Posted by: Random Reader | Nov 24 2025 16:45 utc | 266
“I couldn’t really stand the assertive ignorance I was reading.”
Better get used to it RR, or stay away. Also, ‘Irenaeus’ and any other assorted bits of Christian sectarianism are merely additional exercises in primitive religious obfuscation, and have no place in assessing current idiocy.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 24 2025 17:30 utc | 273
Better get used to it RR, or stay away. Also, ‘Irenaeus’ and any other assorted bits of Christian sectarianism are merely additional exercises in primitive religious obfuscation, and have no place in assessing current idiocy.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 24 2025 17:30 utc | 273
Current idiocy goes back to that time and is still active. At that time some people did everything to leave no “choice”.
You know the Greek word, do you?
@ Naive @ 272
“I don’t need to read. […] And it is not about belief, but about history.”
Precisely.
Refusing to account for historical information is, literally, trumpeting ignorance.
Yet, ignorance is typically naive.
When it becomes an arrogant stance, it wears another name.
Sincerely yours.
Posted by: Random Reader | Nov 24 2025 17:37 utc | 275
Posted by: Hamburger | Nov 24 2025 15:42 utc | 253
Lol I guess those Estonians want to achieve what Peter Sellers achieved in The Mouse that Roared.
Very good movie by the way.
Posted by: Avtonom | Nov 24 2025 18:02 utc | 276
Posted by: Random Reader | Nov 24 2025 17:37 utc | 275
OK! You have no argument, but only fallacies: ad personam, stawman, etc.
And you are another one who fell for the trap set by my pseudo. LOL! Irénée published his main work around 930 auc. That is even after Marcio.
And again: it had nothing to do with Yeshua.
Posted by: oldhippie | Nov 24 2025 16:52 utc | 267
I know. I spent 38 years in government. I never got beyond middle management. I couldn’t keep my mouth shut and it didn’t seem worth the effort. The biggest assholes I encountered were SES and just below SES. They were only knowledgeable about their own little silos, narrowly educated, and viciously competitive.
Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 24 2025 18:40 utc | 278
@ Naive @ 277
I will make it more clear then.
Your point is : “Christianity is a Greek religion introduced by Marcio around 900 ab Urbe condita.”
These are your words.
I then simply advised you to learn about Irenaeus of Lyons, and read the book for which he is known, so as to actualize your beliefs.
You then said: “I don’t need to read. […] And it is not about belief, but about history.”
These are your words.
You demonstrated that you didn’t know about Irenaeus, while at the same time claiming knowledge about a gnostic (Marcio of Sinope) who was known to us by … Irenaeus himself.
Not only Irenaeus was the firsthand historical source from which Marcio was known, but Irenaeus refuted him in his 1st book, and Irenaeus being recognized as an authority by all Christian churches in the world, this not only refutes but ridicules your claim that Marcio invented Christianity.
Irenaeus was disciple of Polycarpos of Smyrna. Which himself was disciple of John the Theologian. Which himself was disciple of your Yeshoua.
An argument is not a fallacy or an ad hominem attack just because you claim it is. I developed my point, which effectively refutes yours by examining your own claims, I invite you to develop yours now if I misunderstood something.
Sincerely yours.
Posted by: Random Reader | Nov 24 2025 18:43 utc | 279
It’s really troubling to see people who are so smart in so many ways act so stupid when it comes to, for lack of a better phrase, ‘supporting the team.’ Unable to realize that politics are not sports (because they are both presented the same way on television), these people back their ‘team’ right or wrong, without realizing the owners of the ‘team’ don’t give a shit about them, and further more, back them only into a corner to steal their wages. It’s honestly infuriating.
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 24 2025 15:02 utc | 243
Afshin Rattansi on RT recently had Susan Miller, former chief of the CIA’s station in Tel Aviv, as his guest. I will provide a link below.
Anyway, Miller at one point, in reply to a question/argument from Rattansi, simply claimed “we are the good guys” as an argument. Anything bad becomes good because … we are the good guys. And this idiot had such a high-ranking position.
I must confess that, as much as I like Rattansi’s work, I could not stomach listening to Miller. I have better things to do with my time.
There is a saying that Mexico is “poor” since it is so far from God and so close to the United States. But the truth is that the Americans really are the most brainwashed people on planet Earth; you gotta feel sorry for them in some ways. It’s like talking to children about some University-level subject in which they belligerently insist that their ignorance is as good as your learning. Asimov was right.
link here: https://www.rt.com/shows/going-underground/628204-us-israel-policy-involvement/
Posted by: N_H | Nov 24 2025 18:56 utc | 280
Posted by: N_H | Nov 24 2025 18:56 utc | 280
Great comment. Thanks for the link, I will try to watch it later, as I just ate and listening to the CIA’s Tel Aviv (of all places) station chief talk sounds utterly sickening, although I think it is important to do so. The whole ‘good guys vs bad guys thing’ is absolutely real in the US. Hollywood owns people’s minds to the fullest extent. No shades of gray in international politics, just black hats vs white hats.
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 24 2025 19:03 utc | 281
Perhaps not as relevant, but Americans have a subconscious calendar system, called AOC. It is currently AOC 6, which identifies the year according to when the great intellect of democratis particus ‘AOC’ (can’t be bothered to look up correct spelling of her whole name) has served in the American Congress of Critters. Yup, she has been defining an age since she gave up ‘Coyote Ugly’ bartending and won her seat in Congress, January of 2019.
Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Nov 24 2025 19:15 utc | 282
- Just fn tell us why she supposedly wears the Star of David. Can u do that , mate ?
Posted by: woebegone | Nov 24 2025 10:48 utc | 209
I have not seen any photos of Maria wearing the star of david.
Posted by: arby | Nov 24 2025 19:33 utc | 283
Posted by: Naive | Nov 24 2025 18:12 utc | 277
Posted by: Random Reader | Nov 24 2025 18:43 utc | 279
This is not a thread about obscure aspects of an outdated and perverse religion, as far as I can tell. Just stop it.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 24 2025 19:55 utc | 284
@ Jams O’Donnell | Nov 24 2025 19:55 utc | 284
Hear, hear! — despite the multiple redundancies in “outdated and perverse religion” 😉
Posted by: malenkov | Nov 24 2025 20:02 utc | 285
Posted by: Random Reader | Nov 24 2025 18:43 utc | 279
I then simply advised you to learn about Irenaeus of Lyons, and read the book for which he is known, so as to actualize your beliefs.You then said: “I don’t need to read. […] And it is not about belief, but about history.”These are your words.You demonstrated that you didn’t know about Irenaeus, while at the same time claiming knowledge about a gnostic (Marcio of Sinope) who was known to us by … Irenaeus himself.
Strawman fallacy. You demonstrated nothing. I don’t need to read, because I already knew it
Not only Irenaeus was the firsthand historical source from which Marcio was known, but Irenaeus refuted him in his 1st book, and Irenaeus being recognized as an authority by all Christian churches in the world, this not only refutes but ridicules your claim that Marcio invented Christianity.
Irénée is not the only source. Refuted him? LOL! There is nothing to “refute” as it is not about facts, but about theological interpretations. Marcio is the first attested xian author to grant exclusive theological authority to xian texts. Especially the Paulus epistles. And Irénée is a fucking liar. It is very interesting that you said nothing about what I wrote about Yeshua, which is not mine, but yours under the Greek name of Jesus. In case you failed to understant it: your Jesus was a criminal executed by the Romans for his crimes with two of his accomplices.
Irenaeus was disciple of Polycarpos of Smyrna. Which himself was disciple of John the Theologian. Which himself was disciple of your Yeshoua.
All fake xian history attested by nothing. About Polycarpe nothing is known for sure. John? LOL! Nothing outside the xian lies. Which apparently you believe blindly.
An argument is not a fallacy or an ad hominem attack just because you claim it is.
And you don’t know the difference between ad personam and ad hominem. And yes, you insulted me. Not once.
I developed my point, which effectively refutes yours by examining your own claims, I invite you to develop yours now if I misunderstood something.
You refuted nothing. Marcio introduced the Greek texts to Rome. He is at the foundation of the xianism based on those texts.
Posted by: malenkov | Nov 24 2025 20:02 utc | 285
At your service – 😀 but I don’t see ‘the multiple redundancies in “outdated and perverse religion’. Sorry to be pedantic (that’s what all the pedants lie about) but these three words seem to me to be entirely separate concepts. However, we are still contributing to this redundant topic. Lets not bother any more.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 24 2025 20:13 utc | 287
This is not a thread about obscure aspects of an outdated and perverse religion, as far as I can tell. Just stop it.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 24 2025 19:55 utc | 284
Currently there is no active “other subject thread” open. This thread is at its end, as a new thread on Ukraine was opened this afternoon.
You are not the owner of MoA as fas as I know, so I will not accept any order from you and I will just not stop!
And unfortunately it is not outdated when read rr. Showing that the xians are whorshipping a criminal is not outdated either, imo.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 24 2025 20:18 utc | 288
My aplogies – I didn’t intend it to come over as an order but – no edit facility. However, I imagine that the subject is profoundly uninteresting to most of the clientel, so maybe take it somewhere else – or nowhere? Which is where it appeared to be heading.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 24 2025 20:24 utc | 289
I’ll just leave this here: https://postimg.cc/hfLJgTMZ
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 24 2025 20:36 utc | 290
Re: “we are the good guys”
a good friend of mine spent a few years after undergrad at Radio Free Europe in Munich during the early 1970s. 30 years later we were having drinks in the Midwest and she said “we used to be the good guys when I worked at RFE, what happened ?”
Posted by: exile@gmail.com | Nov 24 2025 20:43 utc | 291
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 24 2025 20:36 utc | 290
LOL – thanks for that.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 24 2025 20:51 utc | 292
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 24 2025 20:36 utc | 290
Excellent! Dedicated to canuk…
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 23 2025 23:11 utc | 127
“All well and good, but you still haven’t told me which version of your pronoun you prefer ”
My preferred pronouns are “Your Majesty” and “His Royal Highness. What are yours?
Posted by: Paranaense | Nov 25 2025 1:00 utc | 294
I read patron of the bar mumbling about pronouns again. My favorite when they came around the first time was Comrade
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 25 2025 1:13 utc | 295
Posted by: N_H | Nov 24 2025 18:56 utc | 280
Just listened to that interview. Her history is… interesting. FDR didn’t put people in concentration camps? Okay… CIA never dealt drugs? Alright… CIA had nothing to do with the flood of heroin during the war on terror (which killed quite a few of my friends, incidentally)? Alright lady enough of you. That was unbelievable babble from a fool. It’s really scary that anyone that ignorant of the CIA has any power within it. She is trying to give CIA talking points, ‘we never did that,’ and so many times the host has to be like ‘it’s in the congressional record that you did,’ and she changes to ‘well it was before my time, and we don’t do it anymore.’ I assume because no one got in trouble over any of this, they were compelled to clean up their act? My god! That interview made me incandescent with rage. Thank you for sharing. Don’t forget, we’re the good guys!
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 25 2025 1:17 utc | 296
Posted by: Caveman | Nov 25 2025 1:17 utc | 296
#####
In my decades of experience with Americans, IRL and online, they are generally immune to introspection and accountability.
That’s their thing, and now their time on top is coming to an end, and they, like the English, will have to find a way to fit into an evolving and increasingly meritocratic world.
They are so lucky the ROW doesn’t want revenge on the Anglosphere; most people just want peace and to live well.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 3:04 utc | 297
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 3:04 utc | 297
“They are so lucky the ROW doesn’t want revenge on the Anglosphere”
Maybe some in the ROW are aware of the positive side of the ledger? The notion of fairness, habeas corpus, constitutional monarchy, the abolishment of slavery, Newton’s Principia, Darwin’s Origin of Species, Maxwell’s electrodynamics? To be silent of football, cricket, popular music…
Posted by: Jan Sobieski | Nov 25 2025 9:03 utc | 298
Great discussions here barflies thanks
@ Caveman, Saint Jimmy , savarnole, RoS, others.
It is exactly the same here in Britain.
The religion of football and its tribal supporters as an illustration.
The fellows (mostly but plenty of laddettes now) who know their teams inside out , the managers, the tactics …
Endless banter beteeen the rivals and fellow supporters …
I wondered (as I am not a keen soccerist) where they had their opinions from? Fully formed, intricate, expert even …
It turns out it’s not newspapers or fanzines anymore – all of it is from their daily consumption of talk radio jockeys, their particular fan chat sites, and some pundits on podcasts…
Very impressive when they daily chat between themselves with such fully formed detailed chat as if it was their own assessment!
Ask them about anything else such as their Russophobia or their dumb support for Nazis or their opinion on Jezza …
It is equally fully formed!
Very occasionally I get through to someone of my acquaintances when I ask, just right (the emotional tone has to be fully under control), how they believe what they do?
Sometimes they give it actual consideration and think about why they do? When they first did?
When they get to ‘it’s what everyone says’ – that’s half the fight.
The next careful step is to get them to consider why that is so, why does ‘everyone’ say the same? They will finally land on the obvious – it’s what’s on the news, innit?
At which point the penny almost always drops.
They give up the fake fight, say it’s all beyond them and let me have my opinion without bristling – a far away look in their eyes – we purchase our next beer.
Slowly slowly catchee monkee.
De-programming has to be done but is difficult whilst the deluge of propaganda is none stop and everyone is fully immersed in it.
It’s not just the ‘news’ it’s the ‘chat’ shows too. Some years ago it moved wholly into the ‘entertainment’ shows as well. The daily police procedurals, soaps even!
At which point I tore up my bbc licence fee, demanded a refund of my prepaid amount and gave it all up !
7 years now. Many have followed that path ( not necessarily for the same reasons, some because they are actually believing the opposite!). The bbc spends a letter a week (postage well over a £1 each time) demanding that the licence be bought! Even when told that no consumption of any noxious TeeVee or internet catch-up is happening. Costing them overall more than the licence ‘fee’ for the year !
The loss of the long trusted propaganda media channels is worrying for the tyrannical Ziofascists – they believe it must be controlled by more and more laws against social media posts, arrests , proscriptions … revealing daily more their hoary stinking fascist Nazionist real selves – demanding obedience.
That’s the REAL win for us, the Many, that’s when the bewildered masses start seeing through the opiate media haze; and trance. More of my acquaintances are now acknowledging my years long scepticism about such matters is correct.
Like a dam breaking – the cracks are spreading and the idiots of the media look more and more like they are sticking fingers in the ever more leaking holes.
It helped a lot when a national football icon hero and all round nice guy, turned presenter of the most popular football show, and star of the crisp advertisements for a whole generation at two – got CANCELLED!
Boom! The Ziolords blew a massive hole in their propaganda foot! If they had only progressed to arresting and prosecuting him! The country would have marched to the courts. National strikes etc. the dumb ziomafiosi of the media and their establishment is still aquiver, screaming like the Red Queen ‘off with their heads’. Threats are all they have left. Gaza genocide has blown all their ‘ownership’ of morality out of the window.
Yes it’s on topic – because they are all linked by the hoary shapeshifter dynastic Ziolords centuries of AngloEuropean imperialism.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 25 2025 10:54 utc | 299
“Like a dam breaking – the cracks are spreading and the idiots of the media look more and more like they are sticking fingers in the ever more leaking holes.
It helped a lot when a national football icon hero and all round nice guy, turned presenter of the most popular football show, and star of the crisp advertisements for a whole generation at two – got CANCELLED!
Boom! The Ziolords blew a massive hole in their propaganda foot! If they had only progressed to arresting and prosecuting him! The country would have marched to the courts. National strikes etc. the dumb ziomafiosi of the media and their establishment is still aquiver, screaming like the Red Queen ‘off with their heads’. Threats are all they have left. Gaza genocide has blown all their ‘ownership’ of morality out of the window.”
Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 25 2025 10:54 utc | 299
Yes, The gyre is turning:
“Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.”
William Butler Yeats, “The Second Coming”
Posted by: canuk | Nov 25 2025 14:06 utc | 300