Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 17, 2025
Ukraine Is Buying Fighter Jets With Money It Does Not Have?

Over the next two years Ukraine plans to spend some €140 billion ($162b) it does not have to continue its war with Russia. There is serious doubt that the European Union, which has already shuffled €180 billion ($216b) to Ukraine, will be able to pay even a fraction of that.

Despite Ukraine’s lack of money it acting president Vladimir Zelenski is announcing deals to procure expensive military aircraft at an unprecedented scale.

In late October he went to Sweden to buy JAS 39 Gripen-E multi-role fighter jets build by Saab:

Ukraine could get 150 advanced Swedish fighter jets under just-signed dealCNN, Oct 23 2025

New NATO member Sweden has said it is willing to sell Ukraine up to 150 of its most advanced fighter jets, the first offer from a member of the alliance to supply significant numbers of jets to Kyiv, which is seeking to upgrade its small and ageing air force.

The deal signed on Wednesday by Volodymyr Zelensky and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson is a letter of understanding, meaning exact terms, costs and delivery dates for 100 to 150 Saab Gripen-E jets are yet to be determined.

But both leaders said it has the potential to be a game changer, not only for Ukraine – which desperately needs more air combat capabilities in its fight against Russia – but for NATO and European security overall.

The planes ain’t cheap:

[T]he most recent known deal was Thailand’s late-August 2025 contract for four additional Gripens (three single-seat Gripen E and one twin-seat Gripen F). The announced fixed price was about 5.3 billion Swedish kronor — approximately $553 million, or $138.25 million per aircraft.

However, Thailand is already an existing Gripen operator and therefore did not need to purchase additional ground equipment, spare parts, or other infrastructure. For comparison, Peru, which has also expressed interest in the Swedish fighter, estimates the cost at around $145.8 million per aircraft.

It should also be noted that these figures do not include weapons, which must be purchased separately.

The total price tag for the fighter jets is more than $20+ billion. The price is likely to increase because it will take many years to build the planes:

Even for Sweden’s own Air Force, Saab plans to complete its 60-aircraft order only by 2030.

Currently, Saab’s production facilities in Linköping can manufacture about 12 aircraft per year. However, the company aims to significantly increase this rate through localization in other countries.

Not even a month later Zelenski visits France to buy the even more expensive Rafale jets:

Ukraine to buy ‘up to 100’ French fighter jets, Elysee Palace announcesCNN, Nov 17 2025

Ukraine will purchase “up to 100” French-made Rafale fighter jets as well as anti-air defenses and drones from France, the Elysee Palace confirmed, as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky visited Paris on Monday.

The Elysee Palace said that the purchases covered by the letter of intent would span the next 10 years.

The real price for Rafale jets is not known but it has two engines while the Gripen-E is a one engine plane. Rafale is said to be the second most expensive jet fighter flying in western air forces.

When those just ordered planes would arrive is also not known. The capacity to build them is already sold out for the next five years:

The French aviation firm behind the Rafale, Dassault, is looking to boost its production output to four fighter jets per month and the company said it has 233 jets still on order, as of October 7.

The agreement signed Monday is merely a letter of intent, still a way off a concrete purchase, spurring questions as to how Ukraine will pay for the French jets when Ukraine signed a letter of understanding for 100-150 Swedish-made Gripen jets in October.

I wonder about the strategy behind announcing deals that involve such large sums of money Ukraine does not have for planes that will not even be build during the next five years.

What impression does this give to citizens in Europe who get asked to take on more debt for financing the war in Ukraine:

EU leaders agreed last month to meet Ukraine’s “pressing financial needs” for the next two years but stopped short of endorsing a plan to use frozen Russian assets to fund a giant loan to Kyiv, due to concerns raised by Belgium.

Leaders from all EU countries except Hungary asked the Commission to come up with options for financially supporting Ukraine.

“We have identified three main options, i.e. support to be financed by Member States via grants, a limited recourse loan funded by the Union borrowing on the financial markets, or a limited recourse loan linked to the cash balances of immobilised assets,” von der Leyen said in the letter, seen by Reuters.

There are of course more options than continuing to finance the war. But v.d. Leyen rejects to even identify those.

The mentioning of ‘limited recourse‘ by vdL a word game hiding the fact that Ukraine will never repay any loans:

Limited recourse debt is a type of debt that gives the creditor a claim on some but not all of a borrower’s assets if they default on a loan. It sits between full recourse debt and non-recourse debt in terms of the creditor’s ability to seize any of the borrower’s assets beyond the collateral backing the loan.

It is obvious that Ukraine will never be able to pay back such large sums of money. What assets is Ukraine offering as collateral to back up a limited recourse loan? I haven’t heard anyone else mentioning those.

I am very interested to hear v.d. Leyen’s response to that question.

Comments

Tom Pfotzer | Nov 19 2025 13:48 utc | 202
 
The poverty or property of people depends solely on leadership. Mechanisation brought increasing property. Automation in the digital world should also. In the American west, prosperity is not shared.
 
Watching how quickly average prosperity grows in China is quite amazing.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 19 2025 14:14 utc | 201

 “Ukraine plans $44 billion claim against Russia for wartime emissions
 

Ukraine plans to seek nearly $44 billion from Russia for the damage linked to an increase in climate-warming emissions from the ongoing war, a government minister told Reuters.
 

 
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 19 2025 1:13 utc | 195
 
Talk about, ‘clutching at straws”.

Posted by: canuk | Nov 19 2025 14:18 utc | 202

Peter:
 
It’ll be some decades before the West has what  China built over centuries: their culture.
 
Their economic design, the somewhat-more-level wealth sharing, etc. is the  product of their culture.
 
There’s going to be a loooong, slow grinding war in the West, with all the trimmings, before the sharing you advocate for happens.
 
We’re not going to get good leadership for a long time. Please rebut.
 
Unless, of course, we stop expecting top-down leadership, and start delivering bottom-up leadership. 
 
Then things can change.
 
So I say “start where we  are, and work outwards / forwards”. Every minute we waste waiting for Godot (Moses, “leader”, etc.) is another moment not spent digging out.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Nov 19 2025 14:52 utc | 203

Tom Pfotzer | Nov 19 2025 14:52 utc | 206
 
Yes. Thinking about the culture part, the west started losing its culture around the time the US ran out of gold and created the petro-dollar.
The communist revolutions also added a lot to the Chinese and Russian cultures. The commune part of Marx and Engles communism, was I believe, unworkable for most nations, but the socialist aspects are quite good and that is the part both countries have kept.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 19 2025 15:08 utc | 204

At what point does providing for your household trump production-efficiency?
 
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Nov 19 2025 13:48 utc | 202
 
######
 
They are connected. Not everyone, and certainly not most women want to do things by hand rather than have the convenience of mass production.
 
All sentient creatures conserve energy as a priority. That is hardwired survival.
 
Making our own stuff, where does it begin and where does it end?
 
I’m not against it but most are not wired like me.
 
Most would rather use their time to sleep or engage in entertainment, and will follow whoever is going to create those conditions for them.
 
I want to say, I love that you frame much of your thinking with questions.
 
The Socratic method benefits the speaker and the listener, IMO.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 19 2025 15:21 utc | 205

“The Socratic method benefits the speaker and the listener, IMO.”
 
Posted by: LoveDumbass | Nov 19 2025 15:21 utc | 208
 
And yet you call Greek philosophers ‘pederasts’ and intellectually useless.
 
You hypocrisy is mind boggling.

Posted by: canuk | Nov 19 2025 15:43 utc | 206

Posted by: canuk | Nov 19 2025 15:43 utc | 209
 
#####
 
It is accepted fact that the Greek elite had a culture of being pedos. Grown men exploiting young men in sodomy.
 
That you can’t handle that is about you, not me.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 19 2025 15:48 utc | 207

I never said the Greeks were useless but I do believe that rotten trees rarely yield healthy fruit.
 
Btw, how does one know that “Greek” ideas are original or unique?
 
Is it not possible that for every Greek thought there is a correlating Confucian, Islamic, or African idea?
 
But no, Zionists can’t imagine that non-whites could produce anything… 😂😂😂

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 19 2025 15:52 utc | 208

Posted by: LoveDumbass | Nov 19 2025 15:48 utc | 210
 
No, that’s not what I wrote-when I showed you how tragedy as described by Aristotle  could be cathartic (you called tragedy, ‘evil’)  you pooh poohed the explanation because the ancient Greeks philosophers were pederasts.
 
Yet  you championed the Socratic method just now.  
 
So what it is your POV on the topic , dinkhead?   The former or the latter?  I don’t think you know.
 
The problem is you  post so ubiquitously you cannot but chronically contradict yourself As I have diagnosed previously you  are part , Bullshit Anonymous-you can’t take your fingers off the typewriter long enough to read, think and ponder as you are so enamored of your own voice you can’t stop the drink of continuous Bullshit.,.which is never documented-and you have been caught plagiarizing before…
 
Pathetic

Posted by: canuk | Nov 19 2025 16:01 utc | 209

Tom Pfotzer @206
thank you, sharply said.  re: waiting for godot—a quick perusal of the cast list, gives the plot away. 

Posted by: emersonreturn | Nov 19 2025 16:04 utc | 210

Posted by: canuk | Nov 19 2025 16:01 utc | 212
 
######
 
As usual, you’re wrong.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 19 2025 16:05 utc | 211

Sigh. @LoveDonbass. Why can’t you accept that some people in the bar disagree with some of the things you say? Why do you have to splash your sour drink over us all, all the time? Why do you have to constantly be the loudest and most pestering barfly? No, you don’t need to reply to this. Just, please, relax a bit.

Posted by: Avtonom | Nov 19 2025 17:38 utc | 212

Posted by: Avtonom | Nov 19 2025 17:38 utc | 215
 
Yes, LB never replies to a direct discussion as you can perceive in our last exchange; instead of supporting why he called , ‘Tragedy evil’,  against mine and Aristotle’s idea that it is, ‘cathartic’; LB  simply replies, ‘You are wrong.”
 
Dumbass cannot respond intellectually to an argument, he just has to be the ‘loudest and superior’ poster. without ever employing ‘good faith’ discussion to prove his intellectual points-he only barks back irrelevant ad hominens.
 
In my case he has called me,  innumerable times, a ‘pedophile and a Zionist ‘ ;  and gullible  posters wonder why I stand up to the “Intellectual Barbarian’ (TM).
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Posted by: canuk | Nov 20 2025 17:44 utc | 213

Posted by: canuk | Nov 20 2025 17:44 utc | 216
 
When one (LD) has all the answer’s, supplied by a belief system, the rest of us are just intellectual bottom feeders. 
Thanks for your continued resistance.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Nov 20 2025 19:01 utc | 214

Re: Posted by: Gerhardt G. | Nov 18 2025 2:42 utc | 144

There’s a part of me that thinks Putin may settle the SMO compassionately, allowing Kiev a trading sea port on strict pacifist terms — or else! Sort of like a reverse Sevastopol lease!!! But he’ll have to have Kiev fully by the balls to do it … so that’s a fair way down the road. And IF … IF … he can get eventually get a Rada he likes after the SMO, Odessa may not be the thorn in RF security that many imagine. I mean, I dunno. We are all just guessing about the end and results of the SMO. VVP will sort it!

 
 
 
Gestures of “good will” with an implacable and “AGREEMENT INCAPABLE” enemy are pointless and signs of weakness.
 
 If he perceives such gestures as good ideas – like slowing the Jihadis to congregate in Idlib (for instance) rather than wipe them out – he is a foolish man’s fool.

Posted by: Julian | Nov 27 2025 10:50 utc | 215

Those contracts would make for very interesting reading.
Non refundable deposits, “commissions” etc.. will be a way to spend money in bulk no doubt.
It’s hard to imagine ‘z’ making such a deliberately provocative gesture towards a POTUS who already dislikes him – to buy French and Swedish fighters instead of American.

Posted by: O’Doshutup | Nov 27 2025 14:31 utc | 216

Posted by: Avtonom | Nov 19 2025 17:38 utc | 215
 
######
 
I want people to disagree. I want great counter-arguments I want someone to push my ideas better with the things I missed and to highlight my sloppiness.
 
Instead, I get canuk and his endless army of socks. Honestly, some days, I think that MoA is canuk talking to himself under different names.
 
I am fine with people disliking my posts. I am fine with differences of opinion. I am not ok with a turd who changes names and has made dozens of empty “you have won the xxxx award” posts. Someone who blatantly copies Wikipedia without citation, someone who covertly utilizes AI content, while simultaneously pushing a colonized worldview.
 
By all means, dislike my posting. That’s great. I am not here to be loved or to make friends. I am here to exchange ideas. 
 
If colonized minds approved of me, that would suck. That would be a massive failure on my part.
 
As always, I post at MoA with the grace of b. The moment he doesn’t want it, I won’t reinvent myself as canuck did. I will show respect to the community and seek knowledge elsewhere.
 
Sometimes, I truly wonder what bothers people more, that I write with conviction, or that I see evil and say evil, or that my analysis tends to be spot on.
 
It doesn’t matter because I can only be me. I can’t be what others want. That’s a kind of death.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 27 2025 14:55 utc | 217

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Nov 20 2025 19:01 utc | 217
 
#######
 
I was posting like this 20 years ago.
 
When you are convicted, it’s a different energy.
 
My belief system is as good as I can understand it.
 
If you feel I am wrong, by all means indicate how.
 
Attacking “my belief system” is side-stepping the argument. Surely you have specific issues with things I have written. Confront those. Humble me. Expose my errors.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 27 2025 15:02 utc | 218