Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 17, 2025
Ukraine Is Buying Fighter Jets With Money It Does Not Have?

Over the next two years Ukraine plans to spend some €140 billion ($162b) it does not have to continue its war with Russia. There is serious doubt that the European Union, which has already shuffled €180 billion ($216b) to Ukraine, will be able to pay even a fraction of that.

Despite Ukraine’s lack of money it acting president Vladimir Zelenski is announcing deals to procure expensive military aircraft at an unprecedented scale.

In late October he went to Sweden to buy JAS 39 Gripen-E multi-role fighter jets build by Saab:

Ukraine could get 150 advanced Swedish fighter jets under just-signed dealCNN, Oct 23 2025

New NATO member Sweden has said it is willing to sell Ukraine up to 150 of its most advanced fighter jets, the first offer from a member of the alliance to supply significant numbers of jets to Kyiv, which is seeking to upgrade its small and ageing air force.

The deal signed on Wednesday by Volodymyr Zelensky and Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson is a letter of understanding, meaning exact terms, costs and delivery dates for 100 to 150 Saab Gripen-E jets are yet to be determined.

But both leaders said it has the potential to be a game changer, not only for Ukraine – which desperately needs more air combat capabilities in its fight against Russia – but for NATO and European security overall.

The planes ain’t cheap:

[T]he most recent known deal was Thailand’s late-August 2025 contract for four additional Gripens (three single-seat Gripen E and one twin-seat Gripen F). The announced fixed price was about 5.3 billion Swedish kronor — approximately $553 million, or $138.25 million per aircraft.

However, Thailand is already an existing Gripen operator and therefore did not need to purchase additional ground equipment, spare parts, or other infrastructure. For comparison, Peru, which has also expressed interest in the Swedish fighter, estimates the cost at around $145.8 million per aircraft.

It should also be noted that these figures do not include weapons, which must be purchased separately.

The total price tag for the fighter jets is more than $20+ billion. The price is likely to increase because it will take many years to build the planes:

Even for Sweden’s own Air Force, Saab plans to complete its 60-aircraft order only by 2030.

Currently, Saab’s production facilities in Linköping can manufacture about 12 aircraft per year. However, the company aims to significantly increase this rate through localization in other countries.

Not even a month later Zelenski visits France to buy the even more expensive Rafale jets:

Ukraine to buy ‘up to 100’ French fighter jets, Elysee Palace announcesCNN, Nov 17 2025

Ukraine will purchase “up to 100” French-made Rafale fighter jets as well as anti-air defenses and drones from France, the Elysee Palace confirmed, as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky visited Paris on Monday.

The Elysee Palace said that the purchases covered by the letter of intent would span the next 10 years.

The real price for Rafale jets is not known but it has two engines while the Gripen-E is a one engine plane. Rafale is said to be the second most expensive jet fighter flying in western air forces.

When those just ordered planes would arrive is also not known. The capacity to build them is already sold out for the next five years:

The French aviation firm behind the Rafale, Dassault, is looking to boost its production output to four fighter jets per month and the company said it has 233 jets still on order, as of October 7.

The agreement signed Monday is merely a letter of intent, still a way off a concrete purchase, spurring questions as to how Ukraine will pay for the French jets when Ukraine signed a letter of understanding for 100-150 Swedish-made Gripen jets in October.

I wonder about the strategy behind announcing deals that involve such large sums of money Ukraine does not have for planes that will not even be build during the next five years.

What impression does this give to citizens in Europe who get asked to take on more debt for financing the war in Ukraine:

EU leaders agreed last month to meet Ukraine’s “pressing financial needs” for the next two years but stopped short of endorsing a plan to use frozen Russian assets to fund a giant loan to Kyiv, due to concerns raised by Belgium.

Leaders from all EU countries except Hungary asked the Commission to come up with options for financially supporting Ukraine.

“We have identified three main options, i.e. support to be financed by Member States via grants, a limited recourse loan funded by the Union borrowing on the financial markets, or a limited recourse loan linked to the cash balances of immobilised assets,” von der Leyen said in the letter, seen by Reuters.

There are of course more options than continuing to finance the war. But v.d. Leyen rejects to even identify those.

The mentioning of ‘limited recourse‘ by vdL a word game hiding the fact that Ukraine will never repay any loans:

Limited recourse debt is a type of debt that gives the creditor a claim on some but not all of a borrower’s assets if they default on a loan. It sits between full recourse debt and non-recourse debt in terms of the creditor’s ability to seize any of the borrower’s assets beyond the collateral backing the loan.

It is obvious that Ukraine will never be able to pay back such large sums of money. What assets is Ukraine offering as collateral to back up a limited recourse loan? I haven’t heard anyone else mentioning those.

I am very interested to hear v.d. Leyen’s response to that question.

Comments

Great news. Not even the beginning of the end……

Posted by: Merkin Scot | Nov 17 2025 16:02 utc | 1

quit thinking in practical terms.. think corruption – something the west and their puppet zelensky excel at…  von der leyen will worm out of any direct answers but find a way to blame russia, lol… thanks b… i hope this nightmare for the world and ukraine – russia in particular, find a way to end… trump is still working on his ‘peace’ deal.. 

Posted by: james | Nov 17 2025 16:04 utc | 2

It would seem that the object is to create “receivables/debt” as in an accounting trick, with true purpose somewhat vague.
 
In other news, a Russian drone apparently hit a Turkish LPG tanker in the still operating port of Odessa.  Globalist-ghouls are hoping that the incident will cause Turkey to close the Bosporus straight.  Turkey and China are the big winners in the never ending War Against Russia [WAR], I very much doubt either will do anything that is decisive…they have too much to lose if the war were to suddenly end.

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 17 2025 16:04 utc | 3

Don’t kid yourself. One way or another, the aircraft or the money will be made to appear.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 17 2025 16:05 utc | 4

That Odessa port remains open is a testament to Russian dithering. 

Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 17 2025 16:06 utc | 5

I presume Zelensky will pay the EU back by the sale of solid golden toilets taken from various Ukrainian Ministers’ holiday homes.
 
…..  or something.
*****
I think this must be seen in the light of VdL trying to get €800 billion from us (me; I pay taxes in the EU). The idea is to give some form of control by Brussels over individual EU States’ future finances and their debt “obligations”. (as according to Brussels).  Is Zele taking on debt FOR the EU, that the EU will then expect to be covered by his “collateral”? (Uke land or hypothetical seized  Russian assets).
 
I may not have got the scam entirely accurately, but chances are that there is one.
 

Posted by: Stonebird | Nov 17 2025 16:09 utc | 6

They can expose many EU countries to a debt so gigantic that there is no other option than to steal the blocked Russian money.  
 

Posted by: Ed Bernays | Nov 17 2025 16:09 utc | 7

A former colleague of mine said when he proposed an expensive project: Finance it from the deficit.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 17 2025 16:13 utc | 9

😐 A president without election is acting without agency to place a Swedish planes order of a supply not yet in existence with money it does not have for a country that is evaporating to the applause of abetting Western nations without openly invested stakes from populaces without their consent. 😐
 
 
😀 It’s like the movie “Inception” watching a dream unravel before your eyes. A waking nightmare of hubris and delusion. It’s time for the rest of the dreamers to pinch themselves awake or at least intervene and command this dream back into their own lucid creation. Peaceful sleep is yours if you truly want it, just release your inhibition to speak and act out in judicious defense of your love.
 
 
🙂 Pleasant dreams.
/cheep from deep in the tree canopy

Posted by: titmouse | Nov 17 2025 16:15 utc | 10

Who, What, When, Where, Why, and How are all good questions about delivering combat aircraft to Ukraine.
 
But, that is not the real final question…
 
The real final question is, “Who is going to fly these combat aircraft?”

Posted by: MRDMK | Nov 17 2025 16:18 utc | 11

What assets is Ukraine offering as collateral. They have opened their borders for young people to migrate to Europe.  Their older people are of little use and can as well die at the front. When Russia capture Ukraine, nothing of value should remain, certainly not young people.

Posted by: hubert | Nov 17 2025 16:18 utc | 12

That Odessa port remains open is a testament to Russian dithering
–  Feral Finster  5

 
No..no..no, the priority is not cutting off supply lines!  That’s just silly thinking!  Russia needs the conscripts to receive their uniforms, rations & weapons so that they can be sent to the front to die in an attritional war.  Yeah sure…that makes no sense but hey, every cheerleader here will tell you that cutting off supply lines in war is passe and worse yet gauche.  C’mon Feral, try to keep up with the times.

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 17 2025 16:20 utc | 13

Producing new planes is not an option , Dassault backlog is full until 2028 with cash paying customer. (India , Malaysia , Greece etc …)
On the other hand, Macron did already not hesitated to “sell” the Frenchs Air Force last old Mirage2000F5 (without any replacement until 2028 at least by Rafale Block4).
What an unpopular President without any electoral agenda can do is already an uncertainty .. don’t even think about what two unpopular presidents without any electoral agenda can do …

Posted by: Savonarole | Nov 17 2025 16:23 utc | 14

Alice in Wonderland has nothing on these deals…The Ukraine, which has no money and likely won’t even exist as a military power in 2 years, orders planes that can’t be delivered for many years, wouldn’t make a difference if they were delivered tomorrow, and its order isn’t ignored and laughed at….

Posted by: pyrrhus | Nov 17 2025 16:27 utc | 15

@titmouse | Nov 17 2025 16:15 utc | 10
It is a fantasy deal, remember this from June?

Ukraine and Norway to Co-Develop Domestic Missiles for NASAMS Air Defense
In a landmark move for Ukraine’s defense sovereignty, Norway and its premier defense contractor, Kongsberg, are partnering with Kyiv to develop and produce indigenous missiles for the crucial NASAMS air defense system. This collaboration, marked by the opening of a Kongsberg office in Ukraine, signals a strategic shift from dependency to partnership.

It never happened, and yes the CEO of Kongsberg was fired.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 17 2025 16:27 utc | 16

john helmer article from today focuses on the corruption and more.. some here might want to read it..

Posted by: james | Nov 17 2025 16:27 utc | 17

Fantasy Land is where these proposals live. First, there’s no money to pay for them. Second, the products won’t be made until the next decade when it’s highly doubtful Ukraine will still exist. Or perhaps they’ll be for the Ukrainian air force in exile? If Sweden can only build one plane per month as production for its own use indicates, the order amount of 100-150 will take that many months to produce after the Swedish order is done in 2030. 

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 17 2025 16:31 utc | 18

First, there’s no money to pay for them. Second, the products won’t be made until the next decade when it’s highly doubtful Ukraine will still exist.
 
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 17 2025 16:31 utc | 18
 

 
Third, China has a veto over weapons supply chains.
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 17 2025 16:38 utc | 19

Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 17 2025 16:06 utc 
Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 17 2025 16:20 utc
Yes, I don’t understand this at all.

Posted by: spudski | Nov 17 2025 16:42 utc | 20

Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 17 2025 16:06 utc 
Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 17 2025 16:20 utc
Yes, I don’t understand this at all.

Posted by: spudski | Nov 17 2025 16:42 utc | 21

This seems like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic
 
How/when does all this crazy stop?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 17 2025 16:48 utc | 22

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 17 2025 16:20 utc | 13

A full analysis can only be completed once the SMO is over. That said, the strategy certainly appears to have confounded NATO and fucked over the American led ‘rules based order’, and with it, the dollar. I sense an increasingly shrill sense of desperation from the West. When youre asking ‘why is is 20 bucks to eat at McDonalds?’ thank your leaders idiocy in sticking their dick into the steel jawed bear trap labelled ‘fuck with Russia’ they thought said ‘wet ready pussy’. 
If only the Russians had adopted the way of losing wars like Americans ..aka shock and awe…then we could mock them like we do the US. Too bad they’re a bit more thoughtful than that. Cagey, them Ruskies. Chess players while Ameribros play checkers. Still in Syria, you say? Funny that. 
Now, what has happened to your dick, Americans? You’re gonna try and jam it in Venezeula too? Seems ill advised.
Its quite amusing to watch Americans who never seem to fight a war they dont lose advise other countries on strategy. This is your cue for telling me how the US didn’t really lose in Vietnam, it didnt pull the dollar off the gold standard and setup the first cracks in the short lived American Empire of finance colonialism.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 17 2025 16:52 utc | 23

The French foreign minister has already stated that Ukraine cannot repay the loans. So it’s a gift, based on the principle of “let future governments worry about it.”The whole thing is primarily a PR stunt. In the media, and this is what matters here, the only thing being reported is “loan secured with Russian money.” The only purpose is to feed the arms manufacturing industry and verbally “scare” Russia. It also justifies all kinds of cuts in social services, i.e., for middle- and low-income earners. This will work to a certain extent until Russia sends a hazelnut.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 17 2025 16:53 utc | 24

pyrrhus | Nov 17 2025 16:27 utc | 15 – post of the day for me … 
James #2 – Indeed and that’s the whole point of the war at this point, right? The transfer of wealth from the western population’s 99% to the 1% through these weapons and other grifts? 
Btw, now we begin to understand why Sweden went for Nato membership , no? Made them an offer the Swedish oligarchs could not refuse. Easy money … why not? Join the rest of the west in looting your own people. 

Posted by: Caliman | Nov 17 2025 16:54 utc | 25

Another way to look at it is perhaps this is a ploy to make sure that in the event that a pro-Russia government comes to power in Ukraine, that government would be drowned in debt. Or maybe the Swedish deal is a covert donation to the UkroNazis. 

Posted by: Steve | Nov 17 2025 16:57 utc | 26

Buying weapons that don’t exist with money they don’t have, can never earn nor repay.
The same kind of circular fantasy financial fuckery that is keeping the AI bubble inflated.
Popcorn and wait for a loud pop.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Nov 17 2025 16:59 utc | 27

It would seem that the object is to create “receivables/debt” as in an accounting trick, with true purpose somewhat vague. …
Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 17 2025 16:04 utc | 3
 
Simple answer: a “currency reform” is already being planned for the EU. That means inflation, then printing money, issuing new currency. After all, they want to introduce the “digital euro,” which will make everything very easy.

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 17 2025 17:00 utc | 28

My guess is what will happen is they the Ukies will get some Saab fighter jets, but they will be the older well worn models already in existence from Swedish af and other export partners, while the Swedes and export partners get the brand new ones – similar to the F16 for F35 swap ( Dutch and other nato countries gave up some of their f16’s because they are getting F35’s)
Sweden is trying very hard to ramp up fighter jet production (close to signing production deal with Canadian bombardair) and selling the latest model to countries with money (Columbia just ordered 15)  – likely as alternative modem weapons system provider to countries the US doesn’t want sell top level stuff like F-35’s too but keep them in the nato sphere.
i doubt Ukraine is actually going to to pay for anything, as there is high probability they would be destroyed quickly by the RF like the F-16 were destroyed.

Posted by: Drsmith | Nov 17 2025 17:03 utc | 29

Remember this from September 2024?

Swedish Officers Died in Poltava – The Foreign Minister Resigns and the Swedish Armed Forces Deny
A Russian missile attack on a military training center in Ukraine killed up to 190 people and injured 600, according to Ukrainian media and Telegram. The Swedish Defense and Government deny any killed Swedes, but just hours after the attack, the Swedish Foreign Minister Tobias Billström resigned.

That was SAAB.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 17 2025 17:11 utc | 30

It all falls into place when one comprehends that the “West” is, first and foremost, an Empire of Narrative.
What matters most is “keeping up appearances” with the gullible plebes at home, so they don’t get any thoughts of getting into the guillotine making business…

Posted by: ThirdWorldDude | Nov 17 2025 17:11 utc | 31

Ukraine is buying fighter jets with money Germany does not have!

Posted by: Lew | Nov 17 2025 17:16 utc | 32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlC7XBayj0s
 [trailer for “The Bridge on the River Quai”]
 
History doesn’t repeat, but it does rhyme!

Posted by: juliania | Nov 17 2025 17:17 utc | 33

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 17 2025 17:11 utc | 30

 
Just today SAAB announced the deal to sell 17 Gripen E/F to… wait for it… Colombia!  🙂
 
Funniest thing about the whole affair is the absence of Swedish SAAB-salesman cum acting prime minister Milhouse Van Kristersson, unlike the drums-and-fanfare ceremony upon signing the MoA with Mr. PenisPianoPlayer a few weeks ago. You think it might have something to do with the Empire’s ongoing feud with the Latinamerican country? Poor Milhouse, I hope he doesn’t end up Olofpalme-ed…   LMFAO

Posted by: ThirdWorldDude | Nov 17 2025 17:23 utc | 34

It seems to me that very few people understand the actual finance: THERE IS NO RUSSIAN MONEY TO BE GIVEN TO UKRAINE!!!! 
Russian assets frozen in EU are not liquid money…. Assets are securities (euro bonds, government bonds, etc…) – and so called Ukraine cannot buy anything for that. That is why all talk is about the “loan based on Russian assets” – and other contortions to make a liquid cash for steal. That is also why, to date, only accrued interest (liquid cash) have been pilfered. Euroclear is not a bank and does not hold money (that could conceivably be shipped, airlifted or given).
Fact is, that great part of EU held Russian securities are not matured yet. Even for matured securities, debtor countries are happy that they do not have to fulfil their obligations while the assets are frozen. Once that assets are unblocked – US and EU debtors (not Russia) will have to pay liquid money for those maturing assets. 
     

Posted by: kokopelli | Nov 17 2025 17:25 utc | 35

@ karlof1 | Nov 17 2025 16:31 utc | 18
Do you know the “WEF” and the thinking of “The Great Reset“? That it is. What sounds like fantasy is real planing, in long times thinking.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Reset
And money? You don’t need it in western system. You only need paper (promise) that other do trust or pretend to trust. (It will increase their power (against the other)
 

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 17 2025 17:28 utc | 36

Alice in Wonderland has nothing on these deals…The Ukraine, which has no money and likely won’t even exist as a military power in 2 years, orders planes that can’t be delivered for many years, wouldn’t make a difference if they were delivered tomorrow, and its order isn’t ignored and laughed at….
Posted by: pyrrhus | Nov 17 2025 16:27 utc | 15
 
This. The levels of delusion are almost unbelievable. The UK and many of the EU countries have gone insane. 

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 17 2025 17:34 utc | 37

A former colleague of mine said when he proposed an expensive project: Finance it from the deficit.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 17 2025 16:13 utc | 9
 
Other than quantum evaporation, nothing escapes from a black hole.

Posted by: pasha | Nov 17 2025 17:42 utc | 38

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 17 2025 16:20 utc | 13
 
It becomes too obvious that you are a troll.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 17 2025 17:46 utc | 39

Posted by: hubert | Nov 17 2025 16:18 utc | 12
 
RE:   When Russia capture Ukraine, nothing of value should remain, certainly not young people.
 
<<
 
#Buy
 
Ukraine is self-scuttling.
 

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Nov 17 2025 17:56 utc | 40

A president without election is acting without agency to place a Swedish planes order of a supply not yet in existence with money it does not have for a country that is evaporating to the applause of abetting Western nations without openly invested stakes from populaces without their consent.
Posted by: titmouse | Nov 17 2025 16:15 utc | 10

 
Wonderfully accurate. And at the same time, reads like a poem. Thanks a lot!

Posted by: Avtonom | Nov 17 2025 17:59 utc | 41

EU defense manufacturers are trying to take/squeeze advantage of getting more sales through the Ukrainian money laundromat (everything is ultimately paid by EU members and citizens).
I don’t believe EUs militarization attempts will succeed in the long run, beyond some short term profits. Every single economic factor is playing against it.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 17 2025 18:01 utc | 42

for countless years hollywoodland weird has been laundry for war zones spoils of war laundromat
like hollyweird ukrainia is laundry for the crime cartels that run the macron drumpf trumped boris johnsons tory blairs. mertz von der liars 
all rottenchilds frakensteins  the followers of jacob frank and sabbattai zvi  baal moloch child sacrifice satanist.
 
ukraine is being emptied out same sickos working overtime in gaza syria 
oded yinon grows every day
 
putin looks like a zion  partner day by day 
 
he was in on the covid scam and the space scam so why not this.
 
has he once in syria or ukrainia paraded captured kiwi,aussie canuck brit,german,norwegian or polack or cia
 
the shoah must go on
the laundromat never stops

Posted by: normal wisdom | Nov 17 2025 18:03 utc | 43

Ukraine buys jets that won’t exist for years with money it doesn’t have.
 
This seems absurd. A PR stunt at best.
 
But maybe, in the context of heavy reluctance by several EU states to seize (steal) Russian state assets, tens of billions worth contracts might swing the fearfuls, the timids.
Basically, a bribe, a cut from the theft.
 

Posted by: Saracene’s Head | Nov 17 2025 18:05 utc | 44

Ursula VDL announced that over next 2 years EU member states will have to dish out 135 billion Euros to Ukraine. And this is surely but the tip of the iceberg, beyond all the other indirect costs.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 17 2025 18:07 utc | 45

Why is Friedrich Merz mobilizing billions of borrowed Euros for military spending? Because he wants to make Germany the leading European military power (at least he said so). Macron, in turn, wants to integrate all European efforts  into forming a common European alliance that would, one day, be able to replace NATO. While such Gaullist ideas would, if they were feasible, have my applause, it does not look very sovereign if all the new weapons you need must be purchased in Washington.
 
Ulf Kristersson now carries Macron’s idea a  step foreward by delivering to Ukraine weapons (like a good boy) , but (like a sovereign country) weapons of European make. And Zelenski encourages the idea and gains some sympathy points in Sweden.
 
Needless to say that neither Merz nor Macron nor Kristersson will ever achieve their goals given the situation in Ukraine. It is hard to comprehend how our top people can act so delusional.

Posted by: grunzt | Nov 17 2025 18:18 utc | 46

It seems like a case of western countries “loaning” Ukraine money to buy crap at inflated prices.
I wonder who will be left holding that bag of crap when it blows-up?
This is pretty much SOP, I think.
But they claim that Ukraine is corrupt.

Posted by: jared | Nov 17 2025 18:20 utc | 47

It is hard to comprehend how our top people can act so delusional.

Posted by: grunzt | Nov 17 2025 18:18 utc | 46
These western “leaders” are not dumb nor delusional – they are paid actors.
It is the people who interpret their behavior as if they were real people performing a service to their nation that need a competency check – it’s like reading the NY Times to learn what is happening in the world.

Posted by: jared | Nov 17 2025 18:25 utc | 48

EU member states will have to dish out 135 billion Euros to Ukraine. 
 
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 17 2025 18:07 utc | 45
 

 
Watching this fire consume everything around it is pure schadenfreude.  Ursula will be given all the fuel she wants.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fire_Raisers_(play)
 
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 17 2025 18:26 utc | 49

EU member states will have to dish out 135 billion Euros to Ukraine.  Posted by: unimperator | Nov 17 2025 18:07 utc | 45
Bear in mind, they simply print the stuff – not like real money.

Posted by: jared | Nov 17 2025 18:28 utc | 50

No money you say? All G7 countries have not only legislated for bank bail-ins but have active, operational regimes. A bank bail-in is a rescue mechanism for a failing bank where the bank’s own creditors and depositors (above the insured threshold) absorb losses by having a portion of their debts written off or converted into equity (ownership shares of the bank). Therefore all plans are in place to “convert” all depositors monies held in G7 banks over insured limits into shares in the bank, so as they say “hold onto your wallets”!

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Nov 17 2025 18:32 utc | 51

Bear in mind, they simply print the stuff – not like real money.
Posted by: jared | Nov 17 2025 18:28 utc | 50
 
That it is. Because that they have unlimited money and buy all / pay for all, as long as the other does accept this paper.

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 17 2025 18:34 utc | 52

Another way to look at it is perhaps this is a ploy to make sure that in the event that a pro-Russia government comes to power in Ukraine, that government would be drowned in debt. Or maybe the Swedish deal is a covert donation to the UkroNazis. 
 
Posted by: Steve | Nov 17 2025 16:57 utc | 26
 
Silly. If a Russian-aligned government takes over in the main body of Ukraine, their first step is to immediately default on all debts previously owed to the collective West. The West knows this, which is why Ukraine will never be “given” the frozen Russian assets. While VVP would certainly be open to rebuilding a friendly Ukraine, this becomes more expensive with more people.
Which explains a lot about Russian strategy.

Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Nov 17 2025 18:34 utc | 53

Apparently the small print in the Rafale contract says the jets will be purchased by 2035.
 
https://x.com/simpatico771/status/1990447495617659269

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 17 2025 18:40 utc | 54

It’s a little bit of a puzzle as to why this post? The long-run issues of how these are supposed to work are correctly analyzed by our host. The point of the deals is not a serious investment in the future, it is the pretense that now is profitable, for the Swedish aircraft manufacturer and EU foreign office and pretending Ukraine as of today has a likely future. In that respect, it is very much like Trump’s investment deals where he gets verbal promises of massive investments into something entirely undefined at some date undisclosed in locations unknown….but he pretends to have earned all that money, even to the point he pretends he can spend it on cash bribes (aka so-called rebate checks.) In other words, it is more or less trendy standard operating procedure in the world of Trumpery. The only peculiar thing is the notion that the real criticism of military Trumpery is selling aircraft to deadbeats. The real criticism in my view is that arming for a war with Russia, or for WWIII generally, is crazy, even if Trump orders massive military spending.
 
Cutting the social spending to pay for military spending is on the agenda I suspect. And that will be true even if Sweden never delivers a single jet to Ukraine. So in my eyes arguing that trying to sell to a loser who can’t pay is bad business may be true in a trivial way. But it’s not a very useful criticism. 

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 17 2025 18:41 utc | 55

Another way to look at it is perhaps this is a ploy to make sure that in the event that a pro-Russia government comes to power in Ukraine, that government would be drowned in debt. Or maybe the Swedish deal is a covert donation to the UkroNazis. Posted by: Steve | Nov 17 2025 16:57 utc | 26
 
Bu**sh*** – You have no idea what currency and money is.

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 17 2025 18:44 utc | 56

Posted by: Steve | Nov 17 2025 16:57 utc | 26 “Silly. If a Russian-aligned government takes over in the main body of Ukraine, their first step is to immediately default on all debts previously owed to the collective West. The West knows this, which is why Ukraine will never be “given” the frozen Russian assets. While VVP would certainly be open to rebuilding a friendly Ukraine, this becomes more expensive with more people.Which explains a lot about Russian strategy.”
 
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Nov 17 2025 18:34 utc | 53
 
Exactly right.
 
That is why England pushed/marioneted  by the City of London will never quit.

Posted by: canuk | Nov 17 2025 18:47 utc | 57

“Yes we have no Grippens, we have no Grippens today.”
 
Letters of intent are worth bananas, we have none today.
 
This episode is another ploy to get Zelensky out of Kiev and safe for a few hours.

Posted by: paddy | Nov 17 2025 18:49 utc | 58

Posted by: james | Nov 17 2025 16:27 utc | 17
 
Thank you, james!

Posted by: juliania | Nov 17 2025 18:51 utc | 59

Its obvious.. they intend to stick Russia with the bill for these orders.. 
 
after all Ukraine is soon to be Russia. 
 
and take the money from the impounded reserves.. 

Posted by: snake | Nov 17 2025 18:55 utc | 60

Marta’s brief daily updates are not brief these days.

Posted by: paddy | Nov 17 2025 19:00 utc | 61

The greasy little goblin might as well sign a letter of intent for the purchase of a Death Star.
Of course, the real issue here is the participation of our so-called ‘European leaders’ in this imbecilic clown-dance. If this goes on, the war will not end (for them) with a bang or a whimper – but with the loud and rude rasp of a whoopee cushion. What TOTAL arseholes they are! I wonder when European citizens will finally feel enough shame at the ridiculous spectacle to depose them.

Posted by: Cornelius Pipe | Nov 17 2025 19:00 utc | 62

Don’t kid yourself. One way or another, the aircraft or the money will be made to appear.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 17 2025 16:05 utc | 4
“The money will be made to disappear”. There! Fixed it.

Posted by: madmarc | Nov 17 2025 19:01 utc | 63

Indeed, what is really going on here?  I don’t know and neither do you.
But.  As others have commented, setting up a colossally expensive deal that would be very profitable for a lot of important people, and can only go forward if the Russian assets in Europe are seized, could help to “grease the skids” for confiscation. That at least would make sense.
Or Sweden will start building the jets, Ukraine will be destroyed or not have the funds, and the Swedish military contractors will get bailed out with taxpayer funds (and requiring further cuts to social spending, it’s a feature not a bug), with a lot of slush left over for the usual suspects.  That could work too.
 

Posted by: TG | Nov 17 2025 19:04 utc | 64

“100 rafales, un tournant dans la guerre?”
 
LOL!!!
 
Sooooo… Ukraine will win the war!!!! That is the message delivered to the French public.
Copycat from Louis Ducon and Micron LeTaré.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 17 2025 19:10 utc | 65

Per b, “Limited recourse debt is a type of debt that gives the creditor a claim on some but not all of a borrower’s assets if they default on a loan.”
 
The EU as a bloc will gain custody of fig-leaf Ukraine once it’s clear the failed state can never repay the debt, which is already clear right now but I think they need to put a positive spin on things going in, creating a collectively-held territory which will be the joint responsibility of the EU.
 
It will forever be fig-leaf Ukraine, useful as an unsinkable aircraft carrier from which to launch Swedish fighter jets, a permanently garrisoned zipcode, no matter how tiny a sliver of an oblast even remains of Old Ukraine after the SMO concludes:  think NATO’s Camp Bondsteel in the midst of Kosovo, which practically does not exist as a municipality.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Nov 17 2025 19:11 utc | 66

Particularly pertinent to this discussion and as I have said at MoA for some time. Money is not real. It is an abstraction used to denote supply and demand, scarcity and abundance, thrift and waste. If there is no stuff, designs, or factories, the amount of money promised is irrelevant.
 
One cannot squeeze blood from a stone.
 
FYI, my nation of LoveDonbassia has just signed a contract with the Kree Super Intelligence to supply 100 Accuser-class starships for 500 quadrillion Starbucks as soon as they negotiate mineral delivery from the Albino Space Dwarves of Earth-616 dimension.
 
Stock prices are soaring on the news!!! 😂😂😂

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 17 2025 19:12 utc | 67

It’s pretty obvious that Ukraine is now in the bargaining phase of their battle with the reality on the ground in the war.
 
They could buy 7 or 8 Embraer Super Tucano prop driven CAS planes for the cost of a single Gripen and do so with much less training, lead time and maintenance costs. The Super Tucano would be a better platform against drones and it’s not like the Ukrainians are going to battle for air superiority over Russian skies with these Gripens. 
 
It’s very difficult for Swedish politicians to pull the plug on Ukraine if a big aircraft sale in on the line whether it’s a good idea or even have the money to pay for them.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Nov 17 2025 19:12 utc | 68

Ukraine has no money, and France didn’t produce the planes. It’s a zero-sum game, but it’s a good PR move for two illegitimate presidents.

Posted by: surena | Nov 17 2025 19:13 utc | 69

To remember:
 
Two of the invincible Indian Rafales were shot down by the Pakistanis thanks to Chinese weapons.
 
It’s like the ukronazi cemeteries, they are full of invincible ukronazi soldiers.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 17 2025 19:14 utc | 70

Ukrainian fascist blogger Sternenko is literally screaming in Telegram how southern front is collapsing and may cost the statehood. They seem to be most worried about Zaporozhye, and even Dnepropetrovsk.
I think controlling and/or denying these cities and oblasts from the west will be a strategic Russian victory in itself. Controlled by Russia it will be even a greater victory.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 17 2025 19:17 utc | 71

By the way, Russia can import workers from North Korea, China and India. It may be needed to utilize and develop all the new areas.
Ukraine is doing it too under WEF influence. Russia can also do it but in a way that’s smarter than EU immigration policies.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 17 2025 19:19 utc | 72

Stock prices are soaring on the news!!! 😂😂😂
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 17 2025 19:12 utc | 67
 
How to make money from no money
 

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 17 2025 19:21 utc | 73

Apart from very expensive the air fighters aren’t the “game changer” some dream. The West lives in the past. The present of war is about missiles (particularly the hypersonic ones) and drones (plus AD systems and associated stuff). Air fighters might have some tactical use here and there but these do not win wars.

Posted by: Ignacio | Nov 17 2025 19:28 utc | 74

“A full analysis can only be completed once the SMO is over. That said, the strategy certainly appears to have confounded NATO and fucked over the American led ‘rules based order’, and with it, the dollar. I sense an increasingly shrill sense of desperation from the West. When youre asking ‘why is is 20 bucks to eat at McDonalds?’ thank your leaders idiocy in sticking their dick into the steel jawed bear trap labelled ‘fuck with Russia’ they thought said ‘wet ready pussy’. ”
 
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 17 2025 16:52 utc | 23
 
I had a big chuckle with your paragraph-well done!

Posted by: canuk | Nov 17 2025 19:29 utc | 75

Sounds like stock price manipulation. Zelensky gets kick-backs from publicly agreeing to buy planes which temporarily boosts the profile and stock price. Speculation ensues, spreads are made, Z gets a slice. Given that everyone with a functioning brain knows the war’s lost what else is left but to turn one’s attention to the aftermath? We know Z has Tuscan vineyards (bought from Sting) and billions stashed. All that’s left is to use what little clout he has as president to boost market prices. Corruption is an artisanal skill native to Ukraine and this war has been about grift since forever, especially as cover for the overarching motive which is the wholesale distribution of Western public finance into private hands. Putin’s crime (and China’s), like that of Hussein, Gaddafi, et al., is that he asserted state and public power at the expense of private interests and subordinated the latter to the former (Michael Hudson makes this point). Wars in phases of historical capitalism are realignments of capitals flows by other means (since politics is dead). Russia, Central Asia and China have been slated for Conquista 2.0 since the late 18th century but have resisted through strong centralised states which enforce sovereign regulation on capital (which the west calls ‘authoritarian’ government, haha). Ukraine serves two purposes: as a laundry for distributing public money into private stock, and as the spear point jabbing the bear. Many involved see the former purposes as primary. Z gets it, shit he’s been running it! VDL works for that end too. I guarantee it will be the economic historians analysing market data between 2014-2026 who will have the most to say about whose interests this war serves.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 17 2025 19:29 utc | 76

Few days ago Nafotards were boasting about the hit in Novorrossyisk port. Today videos indicate the loading of Suezmax and Aframax sized tankers is proceeding normally.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 17 2025 19:42 utc | 77

The world saving ahem the money lender 

Posted by: Sadness | Nov 17 2025 19:44 utc | 78

with more money for war, there’s less money for gender reassignment. it’s so terrible. i’ll have to reinlist for 20 just to afford my sex change. meanwhile, my multiple sex partners and all their unwanted immigrant babies will all lose their SNAP benefits….and housing, except in ICE facilities.
 
i think that as long as the workers don’t own the means of production, the ruling class can continue this kind of crap for a while yet. fake numbers about money don’t mean as much as getting actual human bodies in motion to produce more war, all while also trying to eliminate the human factor via automation of war making. self-driving EVs and such retarded crap are experiments to remove human decision-making. anyway, the point is not control of money first, but control of resources, incl above all else human labor.

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 17 2025 19:53 utc | 79

Looks like the elites have switched from cocaine for a while …
 
…. and a bumper magic mushroom season in Europe ….. high as tripping kites ….
 
Sums it up.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 17 2025 19:56 utc | 80

If Canada’s Bombardier partners with SAAB for these planes, I can see Carney promising some planes to Ukraine. The first Canuk made plane will roll of the assembly line by 2030. Canadian Tax payers fork out 240 mil each. Shortly after the Bombardier unit will be sold to the Yanks.
But Ukraine will be rumped by then.

Posted by: Angelo | Nov 17 2025 19:58 utc | 81

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 17 2025 19:29 utc | 76
 
Oh no! Even Stink is a piece of shit… just like “Bono” or “Bonobo” or whatever he calls himself. My oh my. Almost all our pop heroes from long ago are slowly but surely revealing that they really didn’t believe in those wonderful things they sang about. I think there are a few left standing. 

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 17 2025 20:05 utc | 82

@Patroklos | Nov 17 2025 19:29 utc | 76
 
Astute.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Nov 17 2025 20:13 utc | 83

February this year this journal
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/27553-top-10-most-expensive-fighter-jets
listed the costs as
Rafael $125M
Gripen E/F  $85M
But like Bernard writes the price seems to have risen
 

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 17 2025 20:16 utc | 84

It’s very difficult for Swedish politicians to pull the plug on Ukraine if a big aircraft sale in on the line whether it’s a good idea or even have the money to pay for them.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Nov 17 2025 19:12 utc | 68
The old moral super power scthick is all forgotten since joining Nato land!
 
 

Posted by: jpc | Nov 17 2025 20:43 utc | 85

This is likely to be some scam to revolving around the theft of the frozen Russian assets. 
 
France has a lot of debts. Zelensky if he is still about will likely get a solid gold toilet as his cut. Ukraine may be lucky enough to see a few token drones.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 17 2025 20:43 utc | 86

Seems that both the Swedes and the French have laid their eyes on Russia’s stolen assets. The Belgians know that if the chicken with the golden eggs is slaughtered, poverty remains. The Germans having their assets frozen in Russia know they will be used as collateral. The EU starts to resemble a pack of infighting starving hyenas.
 
The F-22 Raptor is a 5G stealth fighter. In that sense the 4G Rafale is the most expensive jet in its category. And aren’t there cheaper, better alternatives available?!?28.05.2025: Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif said on Wednesday that the country’s air force shot down six Indian fighter jets, including four French-made Rafales, during the latest military conflict with its archrival India.https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/pakistan-shot-down-6-indian-jets-including-4-french-made-rafale-during-conflict-premier-sharif/3582409
 
“We have identified three main options, i.e. support to be financed by Member States via grants, a limited recourse loan funded by the Union borrowing on the financial markets, or a limited recourse loan linked to the cash balances of immobilised assets,” Von der Leyen.
 
The fourth option should be: admit defeat and unconditionally agree to Russia’s terms of peace. And while Von der Leyen is at it, pack her bags and leave for the country you secretly work for. Although a guillotine would be more suitable considering where she all brought us.

Posted by: xor | Nov 17 2025 20:46 utc | 87

Needless to say that neither Merz nor Macron nor Kristersson will ever achieve their goals given the situation in Ukraine. It is hard to comprehend how our top people can act so delusional.
Posted by: grunzt | Nov 17 2025 18:18 utc | 46
Simply put. 
They will never be held to account for anything they have done or enact.
And they know it.
Remember the clown princess  Baerbock?
A job with the un !

Posted by: jpc | Nov 17 2025 20:48 utc | 88

Reuters – “The letter of intent was a political commitment, rather than a purchase deal, which would come later, the Elysee said. The aim was to finance it with EU programmes and the planned use of frozen Russian assets, which the EU still has to agree.”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 17 2025 20:50 utc | 89

It’s NOT an exercise of
Ukraine
buying
jets
from
Sweden.
It’s a money cups and balls game, a narrative to ostensibly thwart Russia’s strategic goals of neutering Ukraine.
 
In my tiny understanding of global defence money, its either/and:
* NATO selling stuff to NATO, but calling it Ukraine’s;
* Industries and governments playing with share prices;
* EU warmongers and Zelensky fearing-up their populii;
*  The US/Pentagon fiddling their black budgets to keep poking the bear for another 20 years,
* The EU saying to Trump “fuck your F35s. We can make our own planes over here”;
* A deluded Zelensky trading his megre national assets for pointless ghost weapons to end up as scrap on the killing fields of Nuovorussia next decade;
* Fuck knows what other nefarious motives are at play.
But it’s certainly NOT about
Ukraine
buying
jets
from
Sweden.

Posted by: Gerhardt G. | Nov 17 2025 20:53 utc | 90

A job with the un !
Posted by: jpc | Nov 17 2025 20:48 utc | 88
 
They get a cushy job. What was with vdL? First corruption in Germany, then EU president.

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 17 2025 20:54 utc | 91

Posted by: xor | Nov 17 2025 20:46 utc | 87
 
#######
 
The thing is, the magnitude of those countries’ financial problems cannot be solved by loot, particularly when it will likely cost Chinese investment in the future. China today is the economic powerhouse of capital generation for growth, study, and development. They are too clever to park their hard-earned wealth (the people’s money) where the Colonizers can steal it.
 
The great bifurcation continues.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 17 2025 20:54 utc | 92

Posted by: Angelo | Nov 17 2025 19:58 utc | 81
 
######
 
Without access to China’s supply chains, no one anywhere is rolling out any new equipment. Not military, not commercial, and not for infrastructure like data centers.
 
All of this is fodder for ignorant discussion. This conversation is as profitable as talking about my hamster’s nuclear-powered skateboard or how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 17 2025 20:59 utc | 93

I think controlling and/or denying these cities and oblasts from the west will be a strategic Russian victory in itself. Controlled by Russia it will be even a greater victory.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 17 2025 19:17 utc | 71
 
Well yes, that was 1 clear goal of the SMO. And sadly,  I think, territorialy, it might just stop  there. But I’d love to see Kharkov, Sumy, Mykolaiv, Odessa gone too.

Posted by: Gerhardt G. | Nov 17 2025 21:05 utc | 94

And sadly, I think, territorialy, it might just stop there. But I’d love to see Kharkov, Sumy, Mykolaiv, Odessa gone too.
Posted by: Gerhardt G. | Nov 17 2025 21:05 utc | 94
 
Odessa, i.e. the entire Black Sea coast, is an indispensable target for Russia. Odessa in Western hands is complicated suicide.
 

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 17 2025 21:09 utc | 95

Hmm. Maybe ukraine buying them is less in your face than say the eu buying them. They 100% aren’t going to ukraine. That or just more insider stock graft.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Nov 17 2025 21:12 utc | 96

Posted by: Angelo | Nov 17 2025 19:58 utc | 81
 
There is a large Bombardier facility within 5 miles of where we live. It has something to do with advanced wing technology, I think. 

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 17 2025 21:24 utc | 97

France is already proposing the after sales service.
 
For instance: why does France come to the front line?
 
Russians must be terrified. LOL!!!

Posted by: Naive | Nov 17 2025 21:25 utc | 98

There will be no seizing of assets. Euroclear has made it known it will challenge and sue to protect commercial interests. 
 
Meanwhile, the frontline is collapsing at an accelerated pace.

Posted by: Suresh | Nov 17 2025 21:27 utc | 99

“Odessa, i.e. the entire Black Sea coast, is an indispensable target for Russia. Odessa in Western hands is complicated suicide.”
 
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 17 2025 21:09 utc | 95
 
Amen,

Posted by: canuk | Nov 17 2025 21:36 utc | 100