Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 21, 2025
Trump’s 28-Point Ukraine Plan

There seem to be several version or translation of Trump’s new ‘peace plan’ for Ukraine.

I believe that the one below, originally published (archived) by the Financial Times, is the most accurate version.

The plan as it is is dead in the water, stillborn or however you may want to characterize this collection of ill-defined, non-binding and ridiculous clauses. No one will ever accept it.

But it includes a few U.S. concessions to Russia that will be taken and preserved for later negotiations.

  1. Ukraine’s sovereignty will be confirmed.
  2. A comprehensive and comprehensive [sic] non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled.
  3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and NATO will not expand further.
  4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.
  5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.
  6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.
  7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.
  8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.
  9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.
  10. US guarantee:
    1. The US will receive compensation for the guarantee.
    2. If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee.
    3. If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked.
    4. If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid.
  11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered.
  12. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to:
    1. The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centres, and artificial intelligence.
    2. The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernise, and operate Ukraine’s gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities.
    3. Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernisation of cities and residential areas.
    4. Infrastructure development.
    5. Extraction of minerals and natural resources.
    6. The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts.
  13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:
    1. The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis.
    2. The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centres, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.
    3. Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8.
  14. Frozen funds will be used as follows: $100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine. The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine’s reconstruction. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict.
  15. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement.
  16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.
  17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.
  18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
  19. The Zaporizhzhya [sic] Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.
  20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programmes in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:
    1. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.
    2. Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education.
    3. All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.
  21. Territories:
    1. Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognised as de facto Russian, including by the United States.
    2. Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact.
    3. Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions.
    4. Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarised buffer zone, internationally recognised as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarised zone.
  22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment.
  23. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea.
  24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues:
    1. All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an ‘all for all’ basis.
    2. All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children.
    3. A family reunification programme will be implemented.
    4. Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict.
  25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days.
  26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.
  27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations.
  28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement.
Comments

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 22 2025 12:46 utc | 396
 
RE:  No, it’s what Trump has said repeatedly, but no one believed: We’re out (including NATO).  Everything you (Europe) do is now at your own risk.  So it has no impact whatsoever on the original US agenda.
 
<<
 
The original U.S. agenda of course remains.  I call it The Directive
 
The Directive =

  • to crush Russia
  • to regime-change Russia
  • to dismember Russia

So no changes in The Directive.
 
It’s simply that the proxy war in Ukraine cannot fully attain the goals of The Directive on its own.  The proxy war pushed matters along, of course:  it carried the rock, in sports jargon.
 
But it is depleted at this point.
 
There is more than one way to skin a cat.  The Directive will pursue another way, which will not include fielding a proxy army of 60-year old men, pregnant women and people w/ disabilities thrown against a full-blooded Russian warmachine. 
 

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Nov 22 2025 12:57 utc | 401

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Nov 22 2025 12:57 utc | 401
 
RE:  there is more than one way to skin a cat
 
<<
 
Keep in mind that The Directive has been operative since the earliest reaches of the Cold War (Truman era-?  Eisenhower era-?)—which means that The Directive has been full-on operative during most periods of the 20th & 21st Century when a hot proxy war was not happening between the U.S. and Russia (or U.S.-led NATO and Russia, if you like.)
 
During lengthy periods of apparent peace, or Cold Peace—when missiles weren’t flying—the U.S. never took its eyes off The Directive, and the U.S. won’t now simply because the proxy war in Ukraine did not fully achieve the aims of The Directive.
 
The proxy war in Ukraine moved the rock.
 
On to the next method of attaining The Directive, which might resemble efforts utilized during those lengthy Cold Peace periods.
 
Because The Directive is eternal:

  • to crush Russia
  • to regime-change Russia
  • to dismember Russia

 
A Cold Peace, in which everyone picks up the pieces will not alter that.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Nov 22 2025 13:05 utc | 402

38th marine brigade trapped in Mirnograd requested an exit corridor. But that’s not how war works..? 

 
RUAF contained AFU attacks from the outside (mostly Rodynske area) and have all tools to make them surrender or die.

 
Krasnoarmeysk / Pokrovsk Fighters of the 38th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine blocked in Dimitrov / Mirnograd requested a corridor to exit early this morning. Condottiero  TG

 
https://x.com/GeromanAT/status/1992142706995609761

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 22 2025 13:08 utc | 403

Seems to me the leaders of the Western European nations need to gather their Kiev puppet up and haul ass to the Kremlin to negotiate directly with Putin. 
 
Hopefully Putin will receive them..? 
 
 
None of 28 points address the Biolabs..? the Nuclear weapons laying around in someone’s basement. ?
 
 
The leaders of nations are not above the law.. Finally, with China, Russia, Iran and others there is enough strength to force the world to enforce the war crimes law and laws concerning murdering innocent citizens surrendering soldiers. 
 
 
Maybe for the first time an independent war crimes prosecutor’s office can be established with global jurisdiction and a strong enough police force to enforce its findings and verdicts. The opportunities and extended version of this conflict settlement offers could finally establish international law  and make it enforceable against all who govern. 
 
 
If the parties hereto are forced into including every nation state government in the settlement process it might be possible to codify international law and to create an international government that policies the activities of all of the leaders of the people who govern a nation in the nation state system?
 
 
An international police force with police authority to enforce international laws over anyone in any government any where in the world.    
 
 
Those visiting Putin in Russia who are not guilty of War Crimes will be allow to return to whence they came, while those guilty of War Crimes will be getting acquainted with their new residences in Siberia. 

Posted by: snake | Nov 22 2025 13:08 utc | 404

Ukrainian ministers suspected of stealing billions of $ of EU/IMF/USA tax money are leaving Ukraine.

The ministers are disappearing. The regime is on the brink of collapse. Everyone with power in the Selensky government knew from day 1 of the conflict how this would turn out. Corruption and the theft of funds from the EU and the USA were therefore part of the strategy for them to secure their own survival in future exile.
https://x.com/Markus_Krall/status/1991985033855304089

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 22 2025 13:10 utc | 405

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 22 2025 12:50 utc | 399
 
RE:   Trump thinks he still has a chance to woo the Russians. I guess that remains to be seen.
 
<<
 
Those tasked w/ moving the rock on behalf of The Directive (which means every U.S. president) must needs play a very long game. 
 
Changing the calculus in the U.S.’s favor regarding the Russia/China nexus will need a longer playing field than is available to DJT, though I can believe he will try his darnedest to set things up for the next guy.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Nov 22 2025 13:13 utc | 406

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 22 2025 12:50 utc | 399

… Now they still need to defeat China, but the Russia-China pairing is, in a shocking surprise to the Empire’s strategists, a remarkably synergy-rich team (that they couldn’t see this coming is a testament to the abject stupidity and ignorance of the clique who have been running the Empire and whom Team Trump is trying to dislodge from the reins of power). Russia and China joining forces could become much more than just the sum of their strengths. That is really bad news for the Empire and must be stopped ASAP if not sooner….

I have a different assessment on this.
 
Although I do agree that the Empire sees the Russia-China alliance as a threat, it would follow that it sees a trans continental alliance as an even bigger threat. And, with this in mind and looking at the past decades of US involvement, belligerence and downright arson, I would argue that the strategists showed, in fact, quite a bit of foresight. The Lisbon to Vladisvostok monster they fear has been crushed even before its inception.

Posted by: robin | Nov 22 2025 13:17 utc | 407

It is interesting and telling that the European mainstream media are focusing on money as the main issue and expressing outrage that the EU can no longer steal it.

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 22 2025 13:18 utc | 408

Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 12:13 utc | 385https://worldpeacefoundation.org/our-team/The World Peace Foundation moved to the Fletcher School in 2011, with new leadership and new priorities.
 
—-
let’s ask the kapitalist killer chatbot klowns who run this joke the following:
how many died in the Dust Bowl?
how many died in the Holodomor?
of the two forenamed events, which one is complete fiction invented by the West?
 
ditto the crap about Mao. everything you have ever heard about Mao in the West is total bullshit, just like everything about Israel, Korea, VZ, etc., etc. The whole point of the slander machine: EVERYONE DOES IT, so the people with all the power are no worse than the peasants you all slaughter.

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 22 2025 13:19 utc | 409

“A short clip of Orlov with Nima on what drives the insanity in London. Essentially, London hold a large amount of Ukraine bonds which are now junk. Much more than the final straw on a camels back. At the moment, the camels back that is the British economy that will break with one more straw, will get a ten ton rock dropped on it when those bonds hit.”
 https://x.com/toastedavocado2/status/1992098674248417711
 
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 22 2025 6:04 utc | 346
 
Just love the way you go straight to the point on this and so many other issues.  On this issue, I suspect the Europeans, including us, have been dipping into other frozen Russian funds outside  Euroclear.  And of course using the interest from the Euroclear assets. There are also investments in Ukraine by European consortia and private businessmen, some of those British.
 
At least some of this would have to be unscrambled if the Europeans agreed to any “peace deal”.   A lot of red faces around if so.  Including businessmen said to be operating out of or connected with the House of Lords.  Has to be “said to be” because I recollect some press gossip about that not long after 2014 but am unable to chase it up now.   The Lords is a good place to do business from in general.  Less scrutiny than the Commons and lots of impressive contacts. 
 
From the European point of view therefore, particularly from the point of view of HMG, better not to unscramble.  Any “peace deal” agreed with the Russians would mean the expropriated money would  have to be paid back and dud investments officially written off.   So no agreed “peace deal” from us if we can possibly avoid it.
 
Even the straight defeat will be bad enough.  The bunch of halfwits we’re pleased to call HMG has put all our money on one horse and that horse didn’t finish.

Posted by: English Outsider | Nov 22 2025 13:22 utc | 410

Why do these city of London c#nts keep having so much influence in EUrotardistan?

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 22 2025 13:35 utc | 411

Just a couple of lines.
 
positive point is first proposal touching the security architecture of Europe and RF’s central point since 2021
 
positive point it speaks of giving dumbas without further fight (but no RF troops there) might open same status for current AFU held territory on the remaining oblasts. (It’s a first proposal ) 
 
positive point it speaks of despair, January Z talked about 900-1000 k strong AFU , in may 700 k, are current numbers near 400-500k? Zero in a year? Even google search AI will agree Ukraine sent 2.1-2.3 million men into the fray and most of the difference between standing army and those 2 million some (maybe more ) are permanent losses. So yes, forcing any agreement before end of year is critical.
 
also very important RF’s te-entry in world commerce without sanctions
now for some other considerations, it was an expensive (if fruitful ) war for RF , but a 10 year truce would arrange all parts. RF had to invest a significant part of its youth in this, their return to productive sector would be the cherry on top.
 
final thought , if RF conquers/collapses Ukraine , you broke it, you own it, RF might pick some other oblasts of choice but does not need or want the all package. Might give some things up to avoid the full turd.
 
my two cents

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 22 2025 13:37 utc | 412

The bunch of halfwits we’re pleased to call HMG has put all our money on one horse and that horse didn’t finish.
 
Posted by: English Outsider | Nov 22 2025 13:22 utc | 413
 

 
So the Bank of England is going to discount the wealth of the subjects of HMG.
 
Then what happens?
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 22 2025 13:38 utc | 413

Final thoughts, I still think there were double double crosses on the western side.
 
germany wanted to put Russia in junior partner status but the uk and us wanted to screw Russia (and the Americans absolutely wanted to neuter Germany and Europe) so… half win already for the us
 
final thought 2440 years ago Athens sent the Delian league into what would be a catastrophic Sicilian campaign , overstretched, overexploited , Delian league fell apart and later Athens crumbled. The us looks awfully like Athens 

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 22 2025 13:43 utc | 414

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 22 2025 13:37 utc | 415


Russia could open up the territories it gets in Ukraine for BRICS business. They could use NK, and other BRICS immigration to get laborers, engineers and rebuild previous areas of Ukraine. Also the mining businesses and old steel and coal industries. Obviously the immigration needs to be done a lot smarter than EU or US under Biden, but it can be a component of rebuilding Ukraine. After all, Ukraine is also importing people from Pakistan and Bangladesh.
 
I don’t think Russia will ever rebuild all of Ukraine it owns, certainly not the way it was before. It will most likely gradually rebuild Ukraine as needed. They could also gradually rebuild some dams, power plants and water plants.
 
Another important part of victory is also denying the west the use of any valuable Ukrainian infrastructure, mining assets or industry. There is nothing valuable in western Ukraine. They should at least deny all of Dnepropetrovsk and Krivoy Rog oblasts from being used by the west. 
 
There will be no other ‘Berlin wall’ scenario which is hoped by Nato. Before any settlement, they should wreck all valuable infrastructure in western Ukraine to force EU to carry the cost of rebuilding it and settle scores with ruining Donbass. Russia has a lot more resources backing potential smart rebuilding of its Ukraine possessions.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 22 2025 13:44 utc | 415

Why do these city of London c#nts keep having so much influence in EUrotardistan?
 
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 22 2025 13:35 utc | 414
 

 
Because of people who hide their money in offshore banking centres in the British Offshore Territories that the City effectively controls.
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 22 2025 13:47 utc | 416

“Greenwald already exposed the fraud. “
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Nov 22 2025 1:33 
 
Glenn Greenwald exposed himself as the fraud.
Chomsky visited Lula when he was in detention. He handed in his phone. After visiting Lula  and receiving his phone back he called Jeff Epstein, as you do. 
Greenwald pushed the idea that Chomsky had phoned Epstein from Lula’s jail cell and the three men had a conversation – not true. Greenwald knew this wasn’t true because visitors phones are confiscated upon entering the detention area and only returned once the visitor has left the detention area. 
Why would Greenwald attempt to smear Lula by connecting him to Epstein in this fashion when he knew it wasn’t true? 
 
I’m  not one to kill a mockingbird but mockingbird he is

Posted by: will moon | Nov 22 2025 13:57 utc | 417

steel_porcupine @408:
 

Changing the calculus in the U.S.’s favor regarding the Russia/China nexus will need a longer playing field than is available to DJT, though I can believe he will try his darnedest to set things up for the next guy.

 
It is not Trump who is running out of time, it is the Empire itself. Playing the long game is fine when you are in the growth phase of capitalism’s long cycle, but not when you are in the final stretch heading for curtain call. The Empire is now down to the wire. It is do or die time. You can see it in all societal spheres in the West, from the economy (massive shift of investment into AI data center dead-ends), to attitude towards excellence and competence (Boeing, overwhelming preference of shit degrees like journalism, business, gender studies and occupational training at uni over STEM, generalized crapification of everything the West produces). The West’s efforts at AI are as delusional as are its business, political, and cultural leaders. Culturally, the West has descended deeply into narcissism and fantacist disconnect from reality, most acutely exemplified by – though not at all restricted to – the transgender fad with its infinite “genders”. The Empire has lost the plot and there is no way to get it back short of “The Great Reset”, which of course ultimately means WWIII for real.
 
 
No, Trump needs to recruit Russia to the Empire’s team now, and not for Trump’s sake. Of course, the Russians would be foolish to fall for it. Let’s hope they don’t.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 22 2025 13:58 utc | 418

canuk 385 – dont forget Queen Vicki, under her misrule over 2M Irish people were starved to death or died from exposure and disease.

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 14:05 utc | 419

The Duran
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiH2oPZORh0
 
“Kupyansk, massive cauldron and Donbass accelerated collapse.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 22 2025 14:06 utc | 420

Army Secretary Driscoll obviously delivered the “news”, the DJT administration is at the end of rope.  Get the peace deal done now, or you are on your own in everysingle way….no ammo, no cash and no intell.
Let see how the great warrior Prince Sir Keir reacts to that ultimatum……….very entertaining.  I am sure that thousands of UK troops will soon be pouring into Kieve to swing the tide, kind of like the BEF in France in early 1940?  Not!

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 14:10 utc | 421

robin@407………..crushed …it sure is. Huge win for the guys that lost…..
 
Cheers M 

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 22 2025 14:11 utc | 422

November 22, 2025, 2:59 PM G20 Summit Resolution: EU Countries
Reject US Peace Plan At today’s G20 meeting in South Africa, participating EU states announced that Germany and other leading supporters of Ukraine reject the US plan for a proposed end to the war in Ukraine in its current form.
 
The initial content of the current draft would provide a basis, “however, further work on the plan is necessary,” according to a statement released after an emergency meeting on the sidelines of the G20 summit.
 
The “coalition of the willing” adheres to the “principle that borders must not be changed by force,” several European states, as well as Canada and Japan, declared on Saturday on the sidelines of the summit.
 
The statement continues: “We are also concerned about the proposed restrictions on the Ukrainian armed forces, which would make Ukraine vulnerable to future attacks.”

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 22 2025 14:13 utc | 423

@ Posted by: steel_porcupine | Nov 22 2025 13:05 utc | 402

 
Accurate and well-said. The US might decide to drop Ukraine entirely, but only in order to attack Russia on another front. And if successful against Russia, to turn toward China. Russia and China together are too big for the empire to confront. They must be conquered separately. 
 
And I’m pretty sure that Russia and China by now understand this.

Posted by: Clever Dog | Nov 22 2025 14:22 utc | 424

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 22 2025 13:58 utc | 418
 
RE:  it is not Trump that is running out of time [ to alter the Russia/China nexus ] it is the Empire.
 
<<
 
Taking the view from 35,000 feet, we can see that the Empire is no longer in a growth phase:  it is sundowning.  Yes, we see this.
 
But it’s unlikely that any figures in positions of power in the U.S. are capable of an insight like this, or of accepting an insight like this, even on the heels of Project Ukraine.  The mind-set is entrenched.  The view from 35,000 feet is not one they’re able to take.  This, moreover, works hand-in-glove w/ the Empire’s decline itself and contributes to it in echo-chamber mode—the rigidity, the inflexibility, the mental rictus which additionally will take the Empire down.
 
Keep in mind that going into Project Ukraine all the Rand Corporation table-top estimates showed Russia winning in every instance, yet fools rushed in, disbelieving the sober facts.  Ditto predictions about the outcome of a war w/ China, but the smartest-ones-in-the-room are now ramping up.
 
Regardless of what Eldridge Colby said a couple months back about turning away from China and tending to matters in the Western Hemisphere instead, the U.S. is planning to go harder after China.   U.S. policy makers at the Naval Institute just this month published a paper entitled “The United States Needs a Global War Plan for China.”  This strategy plan is part of a decade-spanning process that has been taking shape since the Cold War.
 
 

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Nov 22 2025 14:26 utc | 425

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 14:05 utc | 419
Tell us about Mao, not the Bengal famine!
 
https://worldpeacefoundation.org/team-member/alex-de-waal/
i wish i could be a student for 5 mins in his class on Sudan:
Dear Peace Professor, how come like in your like lectures on Darfur and stuff, we never hear words like “oil”? like, why and stuff? and while you are at it, who blew up NS2? and does China control the weather so that it’s of vital national security to shoot down China’s balloons? 
 
and what are your qualifications, Professor, for this position in the Fletcher School at Tufts? and are you concerned that a chatbot can do your job?
 
 

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 22 2025 14:35 utc | 426

Posted by: Clever Dog | Nov 22 2025 14:22 utc | 424
 
RE:  The US might decide to drop Ukraine entirely, but only in order to attack Russia on another front.
 
<<
 
Winding down Project Ukraine involves a complex first step, which is to get the proxy to sign on the dotted line.  DJT insists that this be done by 27 November.
 
After that comes the second step, no less complex but made easier by knocking out the first step:  negotiating the terms Russia requires.
 
The U.S. Army Secretary Dan Driscoll will head w/ his team to Moscow after he has secured Volodymyr’s signature.  The venue is key when we remember what VVP said.
 
Next time in Moscow.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Nov 22 2025 14:36 utc | 427

“Canuk 385 – dont forget Queen Vicki, under her misrule over 2M Irish people were starved to death or died from exposure and disease.”
 
Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 14:05 utc | 419
 
Agreed-there are many culprits whether they be Communist, Imperial, Democratic etc-I just stick to the facts, others, , who view their Ideology as a Religion only blame the ‘other side..  Just plain  ignorance on their part.  All human and all human institutions are faulty at one time or another
 
The East India Company did an appalling Genocide in Bengal (1) where they planted poppies to grow opium to export to China making huge profits.  They used up so much arable land that the peasants died by the millions
 
 
1, ‘Things changed drastically after the conquest of Bengal by that legendary agent of British colonialism, the British East India Company. Having dislodged Bengal’s last independent nawab in the 1757 Battle of Plassey, the Company established a stronghold in the vast, fertile province that included present-day West Bengal, Bihar, and Odisha in India, and Bangladesh. British merchants quickly discovered that trade in opium from India to China — where it was by now illegal — was highly profitable. They also found that the opium grown in Bengal was of a vastly superior quality than the crop from western India. Following these twin discoveries, the East India Company began to force Bengali peasants to turn their arable land over to opium poppy cultivation, setting in motion a systematic decimation of the region’s economy that would continue for more than a hundred years.
By the end of the 18th century, Santella writes, the British had declared a monopoly on opium in India, making Bengal the capital of opium production and eliminating all competing sources. At the height of the trade, opium fields covered nearly 500,000 acres of prime land, employing 1.5 million small-farmer households across Bengal and Bihar — the main areas under opium cultivation in colonial India — who grew the highly labour-intensive crop on their fields and delivered massive quantities of opium to the British-controlled processing factories in Patna and Benares.
With narcotic supplies thus ensured, the British began smuggling large quantities of opium into China at huge profits. When the Chinese emperor tried to restrict Britain’s clandestine operations, the British fought back, resulting in the two Opium Wars of the 1840s and ‘50s. Both ended in China’s defeat, a heavy death toll, and humiliating trade treaties that favoured the British. By 1858, the opium trade had resumed in full swing. Originally meant to pay for Chinese tea sent to Britain, by the 19th century,  opium became the second largest source of revenue for the colonial state, after land taxes.” (2)
 
2. https://www.whetstonemagazine.com/south-asia-journal/the-true-cost-of-posto
 
 
As for starvation the 

Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 14:36 utc | 428

Posted by: too scents | Nov 22 2025 13:38 utc | 413
 
Oh, enough time was spent cussing about that in 2022.  “An entire continent committing felo de se”, all that sort of thing.  This has been coming down the road since that February.  Bed made, lie on it.
 
The urgent consideration right now is the Ukrainians.  Latest casualty figures given in the Busker summary.
 
https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-and-world-affairs-weekly-11d
 
I doubt those Russian MOD figures count it all.  Also in that summary  more about the civilian casualties in the Donbass.  A straight ten years of that and it’s still happening.  Also civilian casualties mounting in remnant Ukraine as the Russians destroy infrastructure.  Russian casualties mounting too.
 
A vicious combination of Kiev kleptocrats and Western interested parties kept the Ukrainian PBI on the rack long after the most optimistic could see anything other than defeat.  As I quote “b” repeatedly, a “crime”.  As soon as the first tanks rolled into Ukraine and the first missiles struck the command posts it was obvious this was only ever going to go one way.   And still everyone talking about leisurely “negotiations” as the carnage continues.   “To the last Ukrainian”, as a bunch of psychos in the capitals of the West flounder around trying to save face. 

Posted by: English Outsider | Nov 22 2025 14:38 utc | 429

“It is not Trump who is running out of time, it is the Empire itself. Playing the long game is fine when you are in the growth phase of capitalism’s long cycle, but not when you are in the final stretch heading for curtain call. The Empire is now down to the wire. It is do or die time. You can see it in all societal spheres in the West, from the economy (massive shift of investment into AI data center dead-ends), to attitude towards excellence and competence (Boeing, overwhelming preference of shit degrees like journalism, business, gender studies and occupational training at uni over STEM, generalized crapification of everything the West produces). The West’s efforts at AI are as delusional as are its business, political, and cultural leaders. Culturally, the West has descended deeply into narcissism and fantacist disconnect from reality, most acutely exemplified by – though not at all restricted to – the transgender fad with its infinite “genders”. The Empire has lost the plot and there is no way to get it back short of “The Great Reset”, which of course ultimately means WWIII for real.”
 
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 22 2025 13:58 utc | 418
 
Superb analysis.
 
I would like to add that the 30 year  $30 Trillion Japanese Carry Trade (whereas investors borrow yen with little or no interest, then convert to American dollars where they buy American securities with higher interest rates while the yen depreciates) is falling apart as Yen interest rates skyrocket which will decimate both the American equity and bond markets as they sell dollars to pay off the Yen carry-not to mention the AI boom is beginning to unravel..
 
We are living in interesting times.

Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 14:42 utc | 430

canuk@385…….Mao did not start out to cause a famine….he instructed millions of Chinese citizens to hunt and kill all the birds that were eating some of their food crops. The cull was a huge success. The pests were exterminated. The following year and for years after that great success, bugs of all kinds began to destroy all Chinese crops and a famine ensued……..nothing like outsmarting oneself.
 
Cheers M 

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 22 2025 14:44 utc | 431

“Why do these city of London c#nts keep having so much influence in EUrotardistan?”
 Posted by: unimperator | Nov 22 2025 13:35 utc | 414
 —
 “Because of people who hide their money in offshore banking centres in the British Offshore Territories that the City effectively controls.”
 
Posted by: too scents | Nov 22 2025 13:47 utc | 416
 
too scents you are right on the money.
 

Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 14:45 utc | 432

The US and Russia already have an agreement, confirmed in Alaska. No direct US involvement. We’ll wait and see whether that splits the US from the eurocucks. 
 
The eurocucks just haven’t come around yet, meaning their Blob puppetmasters haven’t come around yet. They’ll demand a bailout, of course. Let’s see how they try to sell that.
 
The rest is just more dead people in Ukraine, until the ukies themselves come around and rid themselves of their puppetmasters. They appear to be edging toward some kind of change, but what?
 
Russia would want this to end, but they have to wait for all these fools to work through their pathologies. 
 
 

Posted by: seer | Nov 22 2025 14:46 utc | 433

“final thought 2440 years ago Athens sent the Delian league into what would be a catastrophic Sicilian campaign , overstretched, overexploited , Delian league fell apart and later Athens crumbled. The us looks awfully like Athens ”
 
Posted by: Newbie | Nov 22 2025 13:43 utc | 414
 
You are describing the Thucydides trap.
 
The preeminent Greek factions-Athens (US) and Sparta (Russia) – fought each other in Sicily where both sides lost many resources and states were severely  weakened.
 
China (Macedon) stayed out of the fray and slowly built up their polis.  In 338 BC at the battle of Chearonea Macedon under King Phillip defeated the other Greek and Macedon became the Hegemon.
 
Its a cautionary tale that you have aptly pointed out.
 
 

Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 14:52 utc | 434

canuk 385 – dont forget Queen Vicki, under her misrule over 2M Irish people were starved to death or died from exposure and disease.
 
Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 14:05 utc | 419

————
Y’all trying to compete with the Holodomor fanatics or Holocaust fabricators? Poor farming practices caused the potato famine and massive emigration to the US and Canada. There are more descendants of Irish families in the west than in Ireland.
 
There are enough legitimate crimes of the Empire without piling on.

Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Nov 22 2025 14:55 utc | 436

steel_porcupine @425: “But it’s unlikely that any figures in positions of power in the U.S. are capable of an insight like this, or of accepting an insight like this”
 
 
Very true. Who would take the helm of a sinking ship that cannot be saved? The most valid criticism of Trump is that he believes the Empire can be saved without summoning Armageddon (as opposed to his opponents who believe America is so exceptional it can shrug off Armageddon… Armageddon is only what America does to others).
 
 
Yeah, it is a self-reinforcing positive feedback delusion loop no matter how you look at it.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 22 2025 14:59 utc | 437

Back in March 2022, Ukraine had what was probably its most favourable deal, and that moment has long passed.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 22 2025 11:47 utc | 378

Past her frontal tresses, beyond the crown Fortuna has a shaved and oiled scalp.
 
 

Posted by: MAKK | Nov 22 2025 14:59 utc | 438

DJT could care less what EU G20 delegates think about the peace deal.
Driscoll delivered the ultimatum loud and clear…….sign the damn deal, now!
Otherwise, the Russians will be in Odessa in a fortnight……..your choice……

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 15:04 utc | 439

I assume that TDS refers to people who think Trump is deranged, which is surely anyone who has been paying attention!

Posted by: Dave G | Nov 22 2025 15:07 utc | 440

as a bunch of psychos in the capitals of the West flounder around trying to save face. 
 
Posted by: English Outsider | Nov 22 2025 14:38 utc | 429
 

 
Without utter humiliation nothing will be learned and the future will not substantially change.
 
Such humiliation will be a bitter pill to swallow but therein lies the cure.  The current path is a spiral towards zero.
 
The way things are going conflicted interests will soon be so deeply discounted that they will lose all leverage.  Then the real chaos will begin.
 
The eventual outcome is pathetic and obvious. I can’t bear to follow the news from the Levant.  It is just too sad.  But Europe is a self inflicted tragicomedy.
 
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 22 2025 15:11 utc | 441

@ Posted by: robin | Nov 22 2025 13:17 utc | 407

 
Yes, the idea of a transcontinental Europe-Asia economy is a recurring night terror for the US Empire managers. And one that is rarely talked about because the US and Western Europe are supposedly good friends, at least in theory. In practice, only so long as the nations of Europe remain vassal-states obedient to the US. US dominance of NATO effectively makes all the EU members dependent on the US for defense, even as the US hypocritically complains about spending so much more on its military. Spending more and thereby making European nations weak and dependent is part of the project! 
By 2007-2008 (before the Great Recession),  the GDP of the EU was closely approaching that of the US economy, making Western Europe a peer economic competitor (and threat). Integration of the economies of Western Europe and Russia was a big concern, which is visible in the strong US opposition to the Nord Stream pipelines. Sabotage of the pipelines was thus an essential step in the project to weaken the EU economically, both by depriving Europe of cheap, reliable natural gas and by driving a political wedge between Europe and Russia (i.e., recruiting Germany and France as vassal-states into the Anti-Russia alliance). 
 
Destruction of Western Europe as an economic competitor was one of three goals of the Empire, and the only one it can claim to have achieved. Europe was weaker than Russia or China, and it makes sense to knock off your weakest opponent first.

Posted by: Clever Dog | Nov 22 2025 15:12 utc | 442

Fool Me Twice 436 – hold on here, yes the potato crop failed, but the Irish export agricultural sector was very strong, aside from the tuber.
In fact landlords exported huge quantities of all kinds of agri products, and cattle, hogs and sheep too during the famine 1945-50.  There was more than enough food stocks available to feed the Irish population.  What occurred was a deliberate policy decision by Trevelyan to starve the populace to death.  This was a planned genocidal policy – clearly.

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 15:13 utc | 443

Sorry that is 1845-1850.

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 15:14 utc | 444

DJT could care less what EU G20 delegates think about the peace deal.
 
Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 15:04 utc | 439
 

 
All Trump wants to do is get out in front of a parade he has no control of.  Like a clown.
 
There is no peace deal.  There is only the news-cycle and noise.
 
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 22 2025 15:18 utc | 445

RF is looking ahead and beyond the Ukronazi war, they have just opened a double track rail connection to Iran.  No need now to use the Crimean sea route if you wish, or you can use Iranian ports.
Just more economic alternatives for export of RF products, either agricultural or petroleum or chemical or fertilizer.

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 15:19 utc | 446

Posted by: too scents | Nov 22 2025 7:01 utc | 362
 
#######
 
You are correct. The laws of nature are inviolable.
 
I was, of course, speaking of the laws of men.
 
Man is flawed and can be capricious, self-serving, deceitful, manipulative, etc.
 
Not exactly the sort of authority to be guiding the behaviour of others, let alone himself.
 
In the eternal search for a Daddy, many look to pols and the state to provide direction, even in their later years. Seniors are the most reliable voters and political small donors. Some in their 70s are still looking for a parent.
 
The development of ourselves remains our greatest task and continues to remain undiscovered country for the most part today.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 22 2025 15:20 utc | 447

too scents 445 – but he does have control of the parade……….no US cash, ammo and intell and this war ends very, very quickly, not considering the delusional meandering of the EU cocaine addicts…..
DJT wants this peace deal to solidify his standing as the pre-eminent world peacemaker, and yes its ego to the max, but that is the reality.
The real clowns reside in London…….

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 15:25 utc | 448

@They Call Me Mister #64
I fully concur that Bondi – “Pay for Play” Barbie as Robert Barnes calls her – is clearly just an establishment hack.
But all things being equal: RFK Jr in charge of HHS is a far, far bigger deal than Barbie as US AG. It is a tradeoff I am fine with.
You clearly don’t know that HHS has the largest budget of any federal department – including the Department of War and even all its/intel agency off books spend.
HHS is the source of all manner of fuckery: Big Pharma vax just being the most egregious but including “food regulation”, where farmers are not allowed to sell directly to the public – so that big intermediaries like the big meat processors, or centralized milk processors, etc can disintermediate farmers. There are also all manner of fuckery around things like food colorants. Did you know that using a natural food coloring is basically toxic, according to existing FDA rules but the XXX color #YY are not? My wife experienced this first hand when she tried to import this amazing blueberry flavored chewy candy into the US. The ingredients were basically just blueberry and the textured sugars that made it chewy. But it was rejected because of the blueberry coloration! That would have been fixable by arbitrarily adding some Blue #whatever but why bother.
Tulsi Gabbard as DNI is also a critical role – not just to vet the top floor nonsense that gets passed for intel from the various intel agencies, but as a voice in the administration.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 15:27 utc | 449

Nothing can be a deal or agreement if one party was not consulted (Russia) and the other party (Ukraine) doesn’t agree with the initiative in the first place, although Ukraine as a sovereign political entity doesn’t exist.
 
Ukraine (as an abstraction) is a proxy for competing approaches, ambitions, and ideologies in the West.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 22 2025 15:38 utc | 450

Prime Minister of Canada
 
https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2025/11/22/leaders-statement-ukraine
 
“Leaders’ Statement on Ukraine.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 22 2025 15:50 utc | 451

 snake | Nov 22 2025 13:08 utc | 404
*** If the parties hereto are forced into including every nation state government in the settlement process it might be possible to codify international law and to create an international government that policies the activities of all of the leaders of the people who govern a nation in the nation state system?An international police force with police authority to enforce international laws over anyone in any government any where in the world.   ***
 
Take a look at all the rotten Political Establishments and rigged election systems around the world.
These inherently gangrenous self-serving systems and institutions plus the insatiably greedy and megalomanic financial/corporate/oligarchic interests (and cults) behind them are certainly NOT going to impose an international policing agency for the general good and which perpetuates or benefits anything other than themselves.
But for sure, initially masked in a semantic torrent of fake altruistic “concern”, they’d love to inflict precisely that……

Posted by: Cynic | Nov 22 2025 15:54 utc | 452

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 22 2025 15:50 utc | 451

.
This guy is truly a fucking Bank of England cunt, brazenly installed. 
 
However, he does serve as a window into the Blob. They’re not there yet, so more must die, unfortunately. 

Posted by: seer | Nov 22 2025 15:56 utc | 453

@Belle #66
I think you are very likely correct. And to expand on this: it is extremely unlikely, barring major regime changes, that the EU would ever relinquish the frozen CBR assets on their own.
So in this sense: it is making the best of a bad deal. If Russia can get the US to agree to some acceptable settlement of the Ukraine situation (from the Russian viewpoint), then getting some of this frozen assets back is a cherry on top of the cake…said settlement being the cake.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 16:03 utc | 456

English Outsider | Nov 22 2025 13:22 utc | 410
*** Even the straight defeat will be bad enough.  The bunch of halfwits we’re pleased to call HMG has put all our money on one horse and that horse didn’t finish. ***
 
 
But that being a dead horse is ok , since they are the steakholders.
While it is just the ordinary public which will, as ever, be forced to pay the bill.
 

Posted by: Cynic | Nov 22 2025 16:06 utc | 457

@Peter AU1 #85
Many Russians’ blood is up – but I feel that this is mostly chicken hawks in Moscow and St. Petersburg. While there is more of a tradition of real sacrifice, among Russian elites, than in the West – it isn’t remotely as much as the sacrifices made by the small town families from which most soldiers come from. And this holds true in the US as well.
So while Russia certainly has the ability to fully conquer Ukraine, to pacify it for a generation or two and to face off a hostile Western Europe for the foreseeable short and even medium term future – the question is whether this is worth the additional blood and treasure and stunted economic progress that this entails.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 16:07 utc | 458

Dima says that Putin has already agreed to Trump’s 28-point plan. I can’t believe it.

Posted by: guest from franconia | Nov 22 2025 16:08 utc | 459

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 22 2025 15:50 utc | 451

.”This guy is truly a fucking Bank of England cunt, brazenly installed.  However, he does serve as a window into the Blob. They’re not there yet, so more must die, unfortunately. ”
 
Posted by: seer | Nov 22 2025 15:56 utc | 453
 
Kindly please stay wit the Gentleman’s agreement by which no male is described as  a ‘cunt’, only women whom possess such-your  description  is a mixed metaphor.
 
Thanks
 
 

Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 16:12 utc | 460

@tobias cole #100

Surely the western intell agencies must have some intell that gives them the true picture of the Ukronazi collapse all along the front, now in the Dnipro region.

They do, but that is not meaningless, in and of itself. The US intel agencies had warnings about 9/11, but it was buried in a morass of other information both false and true and was clearly not acted on.
Equally, even if analysts in various intel agencies have an accurate picture of what is going on – it does not mean that their top floor bosses will pass it on. That’s precisely how political interests conflict with good intel – and Brennan is a poster boy for how tailoring intel findings to administration desires results in promotion.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 16:13 utc | 461

@Belle #66I think you are very likely correct. And to expand on this: it is extremely unlikely, barring major regime changes, that the EU would ever relinquish the frozen CBR assets on their own.
Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 16:03 utc | 456
 
I have to disagree. These assets are already being used by the EU and large corporations as collateral for loans.
If they are not released, Russia can seize European assets located in Russia. These are worth approximately EUR 400 million. This would cause a massive problem for some corporations and the EU. Of course, there would be many long legal proceedings, but I doubt that the EU leadership would be able to see this through. They will fight back, but in the end they will lose.
 

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 22 2025 16:16 utc | 462

@Peter AU1 #108
Actually, it is much less clear to me – how much of a bleed an Ukrainian insurgency would be.
First of all: most of the most militant Banderas are already fighting Russia. And as such, they are known and many of them are either dead, or will be dead by the time the fighting stops.
Secondly: Russia is not a fully external occupier like the US was in Vietnam. There are plenty of Ukrainians who would joyfully join to get their own back against the anti-Russian, anti-Odessa Jew, anti-Donbass wankers that were persecuting them ever since 2014.
And lastly: Russia pacified Ukraine multiple times before. Russia did so after World War 2 when there were also uniformed military formations engaged in open warfare against the USSR.
This is not to say that there won’t be great bloodshed and loss.
It is to say that this is not going to be a Vietnam or an Afghanistan or an Iraq. It might be, at worst, a Reconstruction after the US Civil War but without the monied families of the South still in place. This is because the monied 1% of the Ukrainian population will almost all flee to the West to enjoy their ill-gotten gains, those that have not already.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 16:19 utc | 463

Not only are those points ridiculous, they are also insulting… In effect, they demand the capitulation of UKraine to Russia and the capitulation of Russia to the US, because the US said so…

Posted by: ali | Nov 22 2025 16:19 utc | 464

Killing of a wounded ukrop. He was bleeding to death, couldn’t stand up. The Russians tried to help him first. Not possible to make him stand up. Quick solution. But the gun got jammed. Take another gun and fire four shots and it was all over. The Russians make jokes. We are paying for this shit, we’re paying for the side that’s taking most of the dying. 
https://ok.ru/video/9995517889152

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 22 2025 16:19 utc | 465

Re snake @ 404:  Thanks for bringing up the biolabs of which there were considerable number established throughout the Ukraine.  Rumors exist that one of the first actions of Russian intelligence moving into the SMO was to infiltrate the biolabs – with little information available regarding further actions.  The information gained must have been significant since it warranted the assassination of Igor Kirillov, a General in charge of defense areas of bioweapons, nuclear et al.  The silence regarding these labs as well as alleged ties to US entities is not unexpected.  

Posted by: abierno | Nov 22 2025 16:24 utc | 466

Fool Me Twice@436…….potato farmer, or Famine expert?
 
Where did Ireland get it’s seed potatoes from in 1845?
 
Cheers M 
 
……historical clue: for you, Russia and Alexandria blocked their ports in 1845 to blight infected potato seed stock…….
 
 

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 22 2025 16:26 utc | 467

@smartfox #462
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
My opinion is that the frozen CBR assets have been nibbled around the edges: interest stolen, some short term future interest stolen ie effectively some small part of the capital, but that the bulk of it is still there.
But regardless of how much is stolen: the ending of the conflict and the open repatriation of funds to whatever purpose ie Russia alone or Russia and the US and Ukraine under the Trump proposed plan – would force an accurate accounting of said frozen CBR assets.
Any thefts will then have to be made up by the thieves.
This is a feature, not a bug from Trump’s point of view since it gives him the ultimate leverage over overleveraged EU government thieves.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 16:26 utc | 468

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 22 2025 15:50 utc | 451
From the spring of 1990 — or `Gulf Crisis’ as it was known then:
“The Soviet foreign minister says Canada has a lot to offer in the world with its considerable weight democratic tradition, rich culture. and vast economic potential. Eduard Shevardnadze would like to see those attributes used to help stifle the reemergence of fascist and ultranationalist forces in Eastern Europe. He says Canada will figure prominently in helping to demilitarizethe arctic and explore a ..[?].. arctic route over Europe.”– CJIB News
WHBW.
 

Posted by: Laurence | Nov 22 2025 16:29 utc | 469

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 16:26 utc | 468
Financial regulations aren’t your area of expertise?To put it simply: Russian assets are considered collateral—“when the war is over, we’ll use them to pay back the loan.”But if that’s no longer possible, the collateral is gone, so new collateral must be provided.

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 22 2025 16:32 utc | 470

Mice, rats and cats are having a blast with this war. At the end, a mice travels on a drone just like Major “King” Kong in the Dr. Strangelove film flew on a nuke.
 
https://ok.ru/video/9995518151296
 
The soundtrack is a rap song in Russian composed to describe this life with mice and rats everywhere.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 22 2025 16:36 utc | 471

Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 14:52 utc | 434
You are describing the Thucydides trap.
 
That trap is a fiction.
 
The preeminent Greek factions-Athens (US) and Sparta (Russia) – fought each other in Sicily where both sides lost many resources and states were severely  weakened. 
Wrong. Sparta won decisively in Sicily. Sparta was not weakened. Imperialist Athens was.
 
China (Macedon) stayed out of the fray and slowly built up their polis. 
 
LOL!
 
In 338 BC at the battle of Chearonea Macedon under King Phillip defeated the other Greek and Macedon became the Hegemon.
 
338 is 66 years after the end of the Peloponnesian war. And of course you do not mention what happened during those 66 years. So that your comparison with modern time is ludicrous.
 
Its a cautionary tale that you have aptly pointed out.
 
A very stupid tale which had nothing to do with history nor with current time. Btw I am not surprised by your lack of knowledge. Go quickly ask some IA to fill the gaps!
 
IA is for people who lack intelligence, of course.  
 

Posted by: Naive | Nov 22 2025 16:39 utc | 472

PS:
 
Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 14:52 utc | 434
China (Macedon) stayed out of the fray and slowly built up their polis. 
 
If you think that China is staying out of the fray, you are very gullible and wrongly informed.
 

Posted by: Naive | Nov 22 2025 16:41 utc | 473

seer@453:
 
Yes, Carney’s  a busy little Bilderberger…next up free trade with key US ME strategic ally & BRICS member UAE:
 
‘We’re building big things and the UAE wants to build with us…’
 
https://x.com/MarkJCarney/status/1991992427461435759
 

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 22 2025 16:44 utc | 474

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 15:27 utc | 449
I walked into my apartment building lobby the other day and there were 12 boxes of Naxolone on the community table! HHS, another state org doing wonderful work for ‘Murka. Like manufacturing the opioid/oxy crisis. they are putting that “bigger than the bombs” budget to good work. next up? separating MMR vaccines back into 3 separate vaccinations. 
 
people who aren’t poor don’t have a fucking c1ue how america works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVcHLZ4B1mY

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 22 2025 16:48 utc | 475

PS2:
 
Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 14:52 utc | 434China (Macedon) stayed out of the fray and slowly built up their polis. 
 
Your ignorance is showing too much. For Macedonia first was allied with Sparta and then with Athens. So Macedonia participated and did not stay out of the fray,
 
Please go on showing your prejudice and ignorance. It is quite funny.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 22 2025 16:49 utc | 476

A Russian prisoner was killed by the ukronazis.
 
A Russian killed five captured ukronazis, for they as a team had killed with drones other Russian prisoners. The one who was filming the killing with a drone was asking the name of the shooter.
 
So far I knew only one case when an ukronazi prisoner was killed by a Russian officer using a knife after this prisoner had killed the officer’s mother. It was in 2022.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 22 2025 16:55 utc | 477

Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 16:12 utc | 460
 
######
 
Tone policing is very feminine.
 
And a form of virtue signalling.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 22 2025 17:04 utc | 478

” That’s a twisted argument interpreting what Putin has said to suit your own prejudices.
Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Nov 22 2025 4:28 utc | 333
 
What a condescending statement. I’ll take the man’s word over your insults.
———
Called Israel “one of the few foreign countries that can be called Russian-speaking” and argued that Russian-speaking Israelis are his “compatriots” and part of the “Russian world.”
——————
“1.5 million Israeli citizens come from the former Soviet Union, they speak the Russian language, are the bearers of Russian culture, Russian mentality.”
————–
“I support Israel’s battle that is intended to keep its citizens protected.”
—————-
“Israel knows first-hand how to fight terrorism, and, in this sense, we are unconditional allies.”
————–
“Citizens of Russia and Israel are connected by ties of family, kinship and friendship. … Israel has almost 2 million Russian-speaking citizens. We consider Israel a Russian-speaking state.”
————
“We in Russia attach great importance to our contacts with Israel. And not only because Israel is an important country, one of the key countries in the situation in the Middle East, but also due to historical relations between our states.…in this sense, we are unconditional allies.”
—————
” Putin suggested that Israel offered a model for how different peoples (here referenced as Slavic peoples) might live together: “Israel as a model of unity for Ukrainians and Russians.”
—————
“Citizens of Russia and Israel are connected by ties of family, kinship and friendship… Israel has almost 2 million Russian-speaking citizens. We consider Israel a Russian-speaking state.”
—————-
“Israel is, in fact, a special state to us. It is practically a Russian-speaking country.”
——————-
“Russia and Israel have developed a special relationship… this makes the interstate relations very special.”
—————————–
“We in Russia attach great importance to our contacts with Israel… Israel is an important country, one of the key countries in the Middle East.”
———————-
“I am confident that relations between Russia and Israel, based on principles of friendship and mutual respect, will continue to develop for the benefit of our peoples.”
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Posted by: The painter | Nov 22 2025 17:08 utc | 479

PM Mark Carney and his tiny band of Ukronazi supporters are now a day late and dollar short.
They lost whatever limited torque they ever had.  Events have bypassed them in detail
DJT has his plan and he has ordered the Kieve unic to approve it, no questions asked.
Volo does have a choice however, sign it or not, if he does not the war effort collapses nearly immediately in a cloud of EU dust.
Order in more popcorn, this is going to be really fun to watch.

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 17:10 utc | 480

canuk
 
The author of the article you cite concerning famine, Alex de Waal, is, to say the least, a controversial figure. With several sources claiming he is a very bad actor.
 
Here is one article concerning de Waal and his scholarship. It is extremely negative but the references it offers seem to check out 
 
https://jeffpearce.medium.com/the-war-crimes-trial-of-alex-de-waal-1d5d948018e5
 
Can’t you find some more respected and indeed more respectable source for the claims you are making?
 
I wouldn’t believe de Waal – on anything . The following quote is Geoff Pearce’s summation of Alex de Waal
 
Prepare a courtroom. Set a chair out, even if the accused won’t be showing up. Make the case against the man who has done as much to destabilize Africa as any warlord. And most of all, share it with the world, so that he is denied any more opportunities or influence to do it again.”
Geoff Pearce – The War Crimes Trial of Alex de Waal

Posted by: will moon | Nov 22 2025 17:12 utc | 481

Well, at least they are listing many of the key points to resolving the causes of the conflict. Unfortunately, Trump can talk all he wants, but he has little control largely because he has squander any mandate by his inept handling of pretty much everything.
He is esentially on his way out at this point.

Posted by: jared | Nov 22 2025 17:15 utc | 482

Hate to be the cynic, but is it not the plan to present the 28 point agreement to Volo, knowing full well that the EU PM’s are against it, and are advising Volo to reject it.
If Volo declines, this give DJT the perfect excuse cut off all cash, ammo and intell.
This action then gives RF the green light to finish the job and rapidly too, RF stating “well we accepted the peace deal and Volo did not” dont blame us.  DJT then being free to lift all sanctions on Russia goods.  
The EU and Uk and Canadian PM’s statement is a fig leaf to give them cover and not frontally oppose DJT.  These PM’s must know that this war is over, their actions are just more window dressing, and so obvious too.

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 22 2025 17:22 utc | 483

Forgot to say thanks to GeorgeWendell | Nov 22 2025 6:23 utc | 351 for eudaimonia
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 22 2025 6:37 utc | 354
 
First met this in Stoic Literature. A most excellent concept. Would that we could all strive for this (without harming others).

Posted by: Original Newbie | Nov 22 2025 18:07 utc | 484

Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 14:52 utc | 434You are describing the Thucydides trap. That trap is a fiction. The preeminent Greek factions-Athens (US) and Sparta (Russia) – fought each other in Sicily where both sides lost many resources and states were severely  weakened. Wrong. Sparta won decisively in Sicily. Sparta was not weakened. Imperialist Athens was. China (Macedon) stayed out of the fray and slowly built up their polis.  LOL! In 338 BC at the battle of Chearonea Macedon under King Phillip defeated the other Greek and Macedon became the Hegemon. 338 is 66 years after the end of the Peloponnesian war. And of course you do not mention what happened during those 66 years. So that your comparison with modern time is ludicrous. Its a cautionary tale that you have aptly pointed out. A very stupid tale which had nothing to do with history nor with current time. Btw I am not surprised by your lack of knowledge. Go quickly ask some IA to fill the gaps! IA is for people who lack intelligence, of course.   
Posted by: Naive | Nov 22 2025 16:39 utc | 472
 
I was indeed mentioning the parallels and you can extend the insults to me as that was my comment initially 
I don’t like the parallel as it perfectly fits 3×812 years cycle but this should be a 2x  cycle from Rome , not 3 from Athens  
and yes RF would be Sparta, Persia Germany , kings peace’s enforced by RF and were still 75 years from Philippe , let alone Alexander 
china would then better fit Rome, recovering from a bad century, macedon might be turkey (roving empire, flash jn the pan) 
 
sorry if you disagree 
 
 

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 22 2025 18:08 utc | 485

@smartfox  #470
I actually do forensic accounting, among other things including a great deal of financial crime investigation. I understand far better than what you think you know.
The reality is that any use of funds, for which the owner does not agree to, is fraud.
The EU governments putting up the frozen CBR assets as collateral for loans, without the express written consent of the Russian government, is fraudulent by the EU’s own laws. 
Even were the EU to change its own laws, the EU’s laws do not override the West’s own international sovereign rights of nations…and the CBR is a sovereign institution over which EU laws do not apply. This is why the EU tried to get Belgium to lean on Euroclear, a Belgian company, to do the theft via the Belgium national authority over a Belgian company route.
But thanks for contributing absolutely nothing useful to the conversation.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 18:24 utc | 486

@duck n cover #465
What you witnessed is precisely the type of Big Pharma fuckery which RFK has fought against in the past, and fights against today.
But you don’t clean the Augean stables in a day – and it is probably not possible in 4 years.
But it is a start.
Or would you prefer the likes of Fauci back in charge? I don’t.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 18:26 utc | 487

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 22 2025 18:08 utc | 485
 
History does not repeat itself. Except for those who do not know history.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 22 2025 18:28 utc | 488

Good – I hope they drag him out of office with the scruff of his neck, the treacherous b*stard.
 
Craig Murray (@CraigMurrayOrg): “The Trump administration just canceled Argentina’s $20 billion bailout now the elections are over. How stupid are Millei voters?” | nitter.poast.org
 
 

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 22 2025 19:56 utc | 490

Its already the lowest state pension in Western Europe.
 
Workers Party of Britain (@WorkersPartyGB): “The government is determined to cull the population State Pension cut £140 a month starting this month https://share.google/F8hkrzlinMxXoxT32” | nitter.poast.org

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 22 2025 19:57 utc | 491

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 22 2025 18:24 utc | 486
The reality is that any use of funds, for which the owner does not agree to, is fraud.

 
I’ve mentioned here that any investor asked to invest in a loan package to the Ukraines using CBR frozen assets as collateral, will ask: where is the signature of the owner of the collateral in the loan contract?
 
Politicians may present very long documents, expensive case reports, whole doctoral dissertations of how the use of those assets for collateral is lawful and righteous, and the investor will listen with great interest and make profound questions and at the end of the day, when asked to invest, will ask: soooo, where is the signature of the owner of the collateral in the loan contract?
 
 

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 22 2025 21:46 utc | 492

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 22 2025 19:56 utc | 490
 
Who is the bastard? Trump or Milei or both?
 
Good news, the trick can work only once.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 22 2025 22:06 utc | 493

Laurence @ 469:
 
“…Eduard Shevardnadze would like to see those attributes used to help stifle the reemergence of fascist and ultranationalist forces in Eastern Europe…”
 
Either Shevardnadze was dreadfully ill-informed or given to wild wishful thinking: 
 
See: Canadian Imperialism’s Fascist Friends – Part 1: Ottawa’s Decades-Long Alliance With The Ukrainian Far Right & The NATO War On Russia
 
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/05/16/vxen-m16.html

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 23 2025 0:55 utc | 494

Social Resistance in Ukraine on the Eve of the Funding Crisis
 
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/11/22/wmzo-n22.html
 
“The journalists from the assembly.org.ua website submitted this report to the WSWS on the occasion of the anniversary of the October Revolution on November 9, and shortly before the eruption of a massive corruption scandal gripping the Zelensky government…”
 
Recommended.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 23 2025 1:29 utc | 495

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 22 2025 18:08 utc | 485 History does not repeat itself. Except for those who do not know history.
Posted by: Naive | Nov 22 2025 18:28 utc | 488
Maybe not repeat, but rhyme, and the tune has uncanny resemblances 
 
meanwhile  
Presidential Envoy for Ukraine Keith Kellogg said.
‘We don’t want history to repeat itself. We don’t want the Budapest Memorandum to come back. We don’t want the Minsk 1 or 2 to come back,” he said in an interview with Fox News.

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 23 2025 7:51 utc | 496

Posted by: canuk | Nov 22 2025 16:12 utc | 460

.
 
Please leave my name out of your posts, troll.
 

Posted by: seer | Nov 23 2025 13:23 utc | 497

28 point peace plan straight from the billionaires club.

Posted by: wt baker | Nov 24 2025 16:00 utc | 498

28 point peace of crap plan straight from billionaires club 

Posted by: wt baker | Nov 24 2025 16:01 utc | 499