Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 21, 2025
Trump’s 28-Point Ukraine Plan

There seem to be several version or translation of Trump’s new ‘peace plan’ for Ukraine.

I believe that the one below, originally published (archived) by the Financial Times, is the most accurate version.

The plan as it is is dead in the water, stillborn or however you may want to characterize this collection of ill-defined, non-binding and ridiculous clauses. No one will ever accept it.

But it includes a few U.S. concessions to Russia that will be taken and preserved for later negotiations.

  1. Ukraine’s sovereignty will be confirmed.
  2. A comprehensive and comprehensive [sic] non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled.
  3. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and NATO will not expand further.
  4. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.
  5. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.
  6. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.
  7. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.
  8. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.
  9. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.
  10. US guarantee:
    1. The US will receive compensation for the guarantee.
    2. If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee.
    3. If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked.
    4. If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid.
  11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered.
  12. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to:
    1. The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centres, and artificial intelligence.
    2. The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernise, and operate Ukraine’s gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities.
    3. Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernisation of cities and residential areas.
    4. Infrastructure development.
    5. Extraction of minerals and natural resources.
    6. The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts.
  13. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:
    1. The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis.
    2. The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centres, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.
    3. Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8.
  14. Frozen funds will be used as follows: $100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine. The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine’s reconstruction. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict.
  15. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement.
  16. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.
  17. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.
  18. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
  19. The Zaporizhzhya [sic] Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.
  20. Both countries undertake to implement educational programmes in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:
    1. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.
    2. Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education.
    3. All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.
  21. Territories:
    1. Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognised as de facto Russian, including by the United States.
    2. Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact.
    3. Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions.
    4. Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarised buffer zone, internationally recognised as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarised zone.
  22. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment.
  23. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea.
  24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve outstanding issues:
    1. All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on an ‘all for all’ basis.
    2. All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children.
    3. A family reunification programme will be implemented.
    4. Measures will be taken to alleviate the suffering of the victims of the conflict.
  25. Ukraine will hold elections in 100 days.
  26. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.
  27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations.
  28. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement.
Comments

As others have pointed out, this proposed document is just another example of the West negotiating with itself. It’s aimed at unsettling Europe generally, just as much as rattling the Kiev junta; witness the flurry of conference calls and discussions being widely reported.
 
DJT has thrown a stink-bomb into a lift full of European leaders.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 17:29 utc | 101

smartfox 97 – completely agree, the Black Sea ports and the land access to Transnistria are the real ultimate end goal here.  Putin will insist on this to the very end (and keep driving hard until he gets there).

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 21 2025 17:31 utc | 102

Thanks b,
 
It’s a nasty enough settlement to be a start to a more global settlement with the multipolar – it wouldn’t have a snowballs chance in hell without the wider ‘Game’ being settled.
 
That means the Entity’s mandatory  decolonisation and an end to all the shit stirring around the world by the Old Bastards .
 
I made my objections regarding the ‘amnesty’ especially attached to Nazis doing Nazi things to civilians. Ok we can forgive the footage of soldiers being executed after surrender or capture. But surely not what happened to the civilians. Maybe they could be prosecuted by the ‘civil’ authority?
 
Here 2025 10:12 utc | 245.
 
What happens if the ‘left behind’ oblasts decide they want to part of the RF and not the EU?
 
 
It’s shaping up to the new Potsdam and could be the end of the ziofascist dreams. If they are prepared to accept it and finally find a Reverse Gear.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 21 2025 17:32 utc | 103

The final deal will look quite different, negotiated with Zelensky’s successor after the Ukrainian forces decide to quit dying.
 
Posted by: Gavin Longmuir | Nov 21 2025 15:30 utc | 25
 
######
 
Why would there be a deal?
 
How did the nuclear deal with Iran go?
 
What deals has Trump completed with anyone?
 
You can’t have an agreement when one party only operates in bad faith.
 
I don’t know how the West fixes its loss of credibility, but it is well understood that it takes a long time to build trust and only seconds to lose it. The world has changed, and Russia and China are in a position to call America on its bullshit.
 
In economic terms, the lack of integrity demands a “risk premium”. Any deal with the US, has to be very costly to the US.
 
To make sure they have skin in the game, and like a deposit, as a surety for when they eventually betray the agreement. Negotiating from a position of weakness (being distrusted) is very expensive.
 
I haven’t looked at this “deal” because I know it is nonsense. As I have been saying for a year, Trump doesn’t have the domestic political support to give Russia what it wants.
 
Meanwhile, Russia keeps winning. Why should they settle for less than what they have paid for in blood and treasure?
 
This is the latest episode in Trump’s delusional claims that he stopped dozens of wars in the last 10 months.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 17:37 utc | 104

this is all theater, people.  We are being played. All this is Mafia families positioning for turf.  This live-streamed genocide is just a warm-up.  Up next is Venezuela, then onto Iran, then the whole of Africa.  The preppers had it right. 
Posted by: MarcusAurelius | Nov 21 2025 16:48 utc | 74
 
I second that sentiment.

Posted by: Merv Ritchie | Nov 21 2025 17:38 utc | 105

The Duran: ’28-point Ukraine Peace Plan  Dumpster Fire’
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRICjfUaYtI
 
” There is massive confusion in this document. The Russians have been told one thing – the Ukrainians another.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 21 2025 17:39 utc | 106

 S Brennan | Nov 21 2025 16:36 utc | 65
 
Thanks for your reply. Agree with your reasoning, but both nations have stated they don’t want their former lands back. Medvedev’s image was presented at the beginning of March 2024, almost 20 months ago. The current state of Polish-Ukraine relations also signal their reluctance. Romania is even harder ro discern. For me, the key is the overall liberation of former Great Russian lands. Historical evidence points to the artificial birth of what’s now called Ukrainian Nationalism that goes back to the fracturing of the Hapsburg Empire in the latter half of the 19th Century. At the SMO’s onset, there were many essays published arguing Ukraine’s artificial nature, which I also endorsed at the time while linking and discussing them here at the time. IMO, the ultimate borders of whatever remains of Ukraine will be drawn along ethnic lines as most other European nations are that are the result of centuries of infighting, empire building and collapse followed by the massive tragedies of the world wars and aftermath that resulted from NATO/EU expansion (yet another attempt at a pan-Europe Empire).   

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 21 2025 17:39 utc | 107

These clowns believing Russia should take great swathes of Ukraine. It is bullshit. Right from the start the west wanted that so they could bleed Russian in insurgency warfare. Putin is no interest. By setting up the fixed front line with no insurgency behind them, The US, Nato were out of their element. It was a battlefield of Russia’s choosing. 
Firepower and exceptionally low civilian casualties have prevailed. You would have to go a long wayback in history to find similar casualty ratios between peers. 

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 21 2025 17:41 utc | 108

1. Ukraine’s sovereignty will be confirmed.

This is meaningless; first of all there would need to be an agreed definition of what a current “Ukraine” even consists of. We are a long way away from that being sorted out. Need to have agreed, mutually recognised borders before sovereignty can be declared, never mind confirmed.
 
Although a confirmation of sovereignty presumably means the sovereign state of Ukraine undertakes responsibility for all its sovereign debts, and payment thereof…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 17:42 utc | 109

“Russia does not want to occupy Odessa. Unlike other Oblasts, Odessa is a handful even for Ukraine.Ukraine will be the biggest basket case boondogle in recorded history. Odessa will join Brics on its own.”
 
Posted by: steve | Nov 21 2025 17:17 utc | 94
 
Steve you are way off base on this issue; Odessa needs to be liberated-if not the SMO will be a strategic failure. 
 
 Russia   haven’t given up all their  blood and treasure so that the West can use Odessa in the future to as forward base to intimidate. attack the Motherland.

Posted by: canuk | Nov 21 2025 17:42 utc | 110

Peter AU1 | Nov 21 2025 17:07 utc | 85
 
Thanks for your reply. IMO, Poland’s government currently seems split on the matter. IMO, Galicia will become its own statelet and end rump of what was once Ukraine, and the artificial entity will finally disappear.  

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 21 2025 17:43 utc | 111

Additional essential needs for the RF:
– All frozen Russian assets to be returned to Moscow with interest accrued.
– All Black Sea ports under permanent Russian control
– Land access corridor to Transnistria guaranteed (remember the Krajina)
– All ROC assets and shrines and churches and monasteries returned to the Patriarch, and the ROC compensated for damages incurred.
– All discrimination against the Russian language revoked.
– UAF to become a military police force without any heavy weapons, including artillery, tanks, APC’s , drones and fighter bombers.
– UAF strength limited to 50K.
– UK to pay $500B in damages to Russia in compensation for RN attacks on Russian naval and land assets, caused by UK “advisors”.
– All advanced western military assets to be neutralized.
– No withdrawal of any RF forces.
– No NATO peacekeepers allowed into the Ukraine.  Only RF approved peacekeepers accepted.
Ok, that is the bottom line……..no acceptance, no ceasefire.

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 21 2025 17:44 utc | 112

GD: Jacques Baud
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKWMvqSWM78
 
“28-part peace plan pushed by US.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 21 2025 17:44 utc | 113

  1. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.

Remind me of when Russia threatened  Europe  outside the demented hysterical imagination  the current media and glassy dead eyed loons of Europe’s  political leadership?
And the Ukraine.?
Bad partnership!

Posted by: jpc | Nov 21 2025 17:46 utc | 114

Please remind me the last time Russian infantry was in Paris as official conquerors?

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 21 2025 17:50 utc | 115

I also want to point out that the SMO serves multiple purposes.
 

  • It is bleeding the West economically
  • It is demilitarizing NATO
  • It is helping Russia diversify its economy
  • It is giving the Russians a superior testbed for new technologies
  • With the territory and population gained, the SMO has essentially paid for itself thus far. A virtuous cycle
  • It is consuming time that the West can ill afford to squander, as its AI mania and compounding debts are hydraulically strangulating its societies.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 17:51 utc | 116

I wonder what strength copium solution is being prepared by our TDS posters, a bit more than 7% I’d wager. 

Posted by: Milites | Nov 21 2025 17:53 utc | 117

The first words from Putin:
Putin responds to US Ukraine peace proposal
The 28-point plan for conflict resolution could serve as the foundation for a final peace settlement, the Russian president has said
https://www.rt.com/russia/628145-putin-responds-to-us-ukraine/

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 21 2025 17:57 utc | 118

Surely the western intell agencies must have some intell that gives them the true picture of the Ukronazi collapse all along the front, now in the Dnipro region.***
Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 21 2025 17:28 utc | 100
 
They do, we have to assume.  I put this 28 point plan as having the same degree of depth as the Green New Deal paper offered by OCC – basically a highschool social studies project. It’s embarassing really.
 
The takeaway is that US policy apparatus and intelligence apparatus have no harmony.  I think a sober analysis would say that, with the collapse that has happened so far in Orekhiv, Kherson and Dnipropetrovsk, just across the steppe, may fall in rapid succession. Liman is at the threshold, leaving Slavyansk and Kramatorsk on a golf tee, which makes Kharkov basically indefensible.  The next 100 days (the time they are saying it would take for Ukraninan elections) could see these developments, especially if “General Winter” arrives.   
So, as I posted in the High Noon thread:
It seems to me that deep within the blob, the feminized hierarchy behind project Ukraine are watching the MAGA hierarchy ascend while coming to the realization that if Odessa goes to the RF, they will take blame. As a feminine network would behave, we have character assassination, shaming and rallying against a green goblin scapegoat. I think all this NABU stuff now is about who is to blame for losing Odessa.
Posted by: frithguild | Nov 20 2025 18:23 utc | 23
 
But what do I know – I just some idiot on the internet. 

Posted by: frithguild | Nov 21 2025 17:58 utc | 119

IMO, Galicia will become its own statelet and end rump of what was once Ukraine, and the artificial entity will finally disappear.  
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 21 2025 17:43 utc | 111
 
I agree – this is the only rational solution.  

Posted by: frithguild | Nov 21 2025 18:05 utc | 120

Posted by: Milites | Nov 21 2025 17:53 utc | 117
 
#########
 
Why would anyone need to cope?
 
Trump is getting his asskicked domestically and still getting beaten overseas by the Axis.
 
It is very premature for you to be patting the Epstein movement on the back, as literally NOTHING has changed for the West.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 18:05 utc | 121

”During the discussions, the American side asked us to make certain compromises,” Purin said during a meeting with the Security Council. Back in Anchoridge, Moscow confirmed its agreement with the peace proposals, Putin noted.”
 
Aha, a first softening of what was previously published.
Now I’m curious to see what these “compromises,” i.e., deviations from Anchoridge, will consist of.
 

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 21 2025 18:05 utc | 122

@ Kadath | Nov 21 2025 15:32 utc | 26 Thanks for the detailed breakdown of point 14 concerning the frozen assets.

… Since the US is in charge of the investment fund, they will simply chose not to audit the books on the failed investments and they can walk away 100 billion richer, the Russians eat the loss and the Europeans protect their reputations by not having the theft revealed the only problem is that the Russians are winning so why should they accept a 300 billion loss?

These certainly aren’t terms that a victor could expect in an end of war treaty. Perhaps the idea here is to force Russia to ask itself if it is worthwhile to cut its losses at this point rather than expend more lives and treasure in pursuing war (as well as bearing the cost of sanctions, piracy and infrastructure attacks)?

Posted by: robin | Nov 21 2025 18:07 utc | 123

jpc | Nov 21 2025 17:46 utc | 114
 
Tricks for the future, control. Ukr also has in law to join Nato. Vicky put it there. This is what you do to third world countries, you write their laws. Now you have to wait to see which points Russia will do. You didn’t even know they have the 28 point plan until Putin said it tonight, everyone else in Russia kept saying that they don’t have any plan from US, called it media fantasies. It’s funny when Daily Mail knows more than Zakharova about what happens in Russia

Posted by: rk | Nov 21 2025 18:09 utc | 124

Zelensky and EU are working on counterproposal. Translation: something completely unworkable that lets them drag their feet while the war continues.  Hopefully, Trump demands signing by Thanksgiving or else. The “or else” part looks feeble so far.  

Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 21 2025 18:11 utc | 125

The 28-point plan for conflict resolution could serve as the foundation for a final peace settlement, the Russian president has said https://www.rt.com/russia/628145-putin-responds-to-us-ukraine/
 
Posted by: smartfox | Nov 21 2025 17:57 utc | 118#####
 
Putin is so clever.
 
I could use the 28-point plan as the basis for my mission to Mars…
 
Watching the Russians and Chinese comment on the West is like watching a maestro conducting the greatest performance ever.
 
It is literally so smart, Westerners cannot understand what is being said.
 
All that matters is action.
 
Wake me up when Russia stops crushing the NATO forces and starts losing territory.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 18:11 utc | 126

France prepares to sacrifice its children to demonstrate it is not weak.
 
“Russia is convinced that the Europeans are weak. However, we are strong, fundamentally stronger than Russia. We have all the knowledge, all the economic and demographic strength to dissuade Moscow’s regime. What we are lacking…is the strength of soul to accept pain to protect what we are. If our country is weak because it is not ready to accept losing its children — because it’s better to say things clearly — [and] to suffer economically because the priority will be the defence sector, then we are at risk.”
General Fabien Mandon, chief of defence staff, France
https://archive.ph/08enG

Posted by: jayc | Nov 21 2025 18:11 utc | 127

The 28-point plan for conflict resolution could serve as the foundation for a final peace settlement, the Russian president has said

Certainly. But there are “nuances” that need to be straightened out.

Posted by: Chrissie | Nov 21 2025 18:13 utc | 128

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 21 2025 17:31 utc | 102

smartfox 97 – completely agree, the Black Sea ports and the land access to Transnistria are the real ultimate end goal here. Putin will insist on this to the very end (and keep driving hard until he gets there).

I don’t recall Russia ever making this claim. Do you expect this will be announced soon?

Posted by: robin | Nov 21 2025 18:14 utc | 129

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 18:05 utc | 121
 
It is working, middle, and upper middle class Americans who are getting “ass kicked”. It’s ok. Our asses are completely numb. Comfortably numb. Can we have another crust of bread, Sir?

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 21 2025 18:14 utc | 130

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 21 2025 18:14 utc | 130
 
Maybe we should all pretend to be Jewish. 

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 21 2025 18:16 utc | 131

Putin
https://mf.b37mrtl.ru/files/2025.11/6920a8d485f54012ba416a52.mp4?download=1

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 21 2025 18:19 utc | 132

Meeting with the permanent members of the Security Council (Kremlin.ru, November 21, 2025 — in Russian)


Vladimir Putin: Yes, of course, there’s no secret here. We’ve barely discussed this publicly, only in the most general terms, but it’s no secret: President Trump’s peace plan for resolving the situation in Ukraine was discussed before the Alaska meeting, and during those preliminary discussions, the American side asked us to make certain compromises and, as they put it, to show flexibility.
 
The main point of the Alaska meeting, the main goal of the Alaska meeting, was that during the talks in Anchorage, we confirmed that, despite certain difficult issues and complexities, we nevertheless agree with these proposals and are prepared to demonstrate the flexibility offered.
 
We have thoroughly briefed all our friends and partners in the Global South on all these issues, including the People’s Republic of China, India, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, South Africa, Brazil, and many other countries, including the CSTO countries, of course. All of our friends and partners, I want to emphasize, every single one of them, supported these possible agreements.
 
However, we see that after the Alaska talks, there’s been a certain pause on the American side, and we know that this is due to Ukraine’s de facto rejection of the peace plan proposed by President Trump. I believe this is precisely why a new version has emerged, essentially a modernized plan with 28 points.
 
We have this text; we received it through existing channels of communication with the American administration. I believe it could also form the basis for a final peace settlement, but it’s not being discussed substantively with us. And I can guess why.
 
The reason, I believe, is the same: the U.S. administration has so far been unable to secure the consent of the Ukrainian side; Ukraine is against it. Apparently, Ukraine and its European allies are still under illusions and dream of inflicting a strategic defeat on Russia on the battlefield. I believe this position stems not so much from a lack of competence—I won’t discuss that aspect of the matter now. But, most likely, it stems from a lack of objective information about the real situation on the battlefield.
 
And, apparently, neither Ukraine nor Europe understands what this could ultimately lead to. Just one, most recent example: Kupyansk. As we recall, on November 4th, I believe, that is, two weeks ago, Kiev publicly stated that there were no more than 60 Russian troops in the city and that within the next few days, as stated, the city would be completely unblocked by Ukrainian forces.
 
But I want to inform you. I want to inform you that even at that time, on November 4th, the city of Kupyansk was almost entirely in the hands of the Russian Armed Forces. Our guys, as they say, were just finishing the job, clearing out individual blocks and streets. The city’s fate had already been decided.
 
What does this indicate? Either the Kiev leaders lack objective information about the situation on the front, or, even if they do have it, they are simply incapable of objectively assessing it. If Kiev is unwilling to discuss President Trump’s proposals and refuses to do so, then both they and the European warmongers must understand that the events that took place in Kupyansk will inevitably be repeated in other key areas of the front. Perhaps not as quickly as we would like, but they will inevitably be repeated.
 
And overall, this suits us, since it leads to achieving the goals of the SMO by military means, through armed struggle. But, as I have said many times before, we are also ready for peace talks, for resolving problems peacefully. However, this, of course, requires a substantive discussion of all the details of the proposed plan. We are ready for this.

Posted by: S | Nov 21 2025 18:19 utc | 133

Alexander Mercouris: ‘Rejecting the Plan’
 
https://www.youtube.com/@AlexMercouris/videos
 
“Russia unstoppable – set to reject US plan; Kupyansk falls; Putin sticks to terms; Kiev regime change.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 21 2025 18:19 utc | 134

Some more updates on the 28 point plan.
 
17:36 GMT

The issue of corruption in Ukraine recently returned to the spotlight in a big way after the $100 million graft scandal linked to a close ally of Zelensky erupted last week.
And according to the Wall Street Journal, Kiev removed a key anti-corruption clause from the US-drafted peace plan for the conflict.
An initial proposal for an audit of all foreign aid into the country to be included in the plan was replaced with a generic point on a “full amnesty for all actions committed during the war,” the outlet reported on Thursday, citing a senior US official

 
17:28 GMT

UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres has said any Ukraine peace settlement should comply with the organization’s principles and General Assembly resolutions. The reported 28-point US peace plan “has not yet been formally presented to any party,” he told a news conference ahead of the G20 Summit in Johannesburg, South Africa.“I’ve just read in the papers that Russia has not yet received any peace plan,” Guterres added

 
17:21 GMT

Veteran German politician Sahra Wagenknecht has described the EU as being in “diplomatic isolation” over the Ukraine peace process.
According to Wagenknecht, German Foreign Minister Johann Wadephul was not even aware that the US had come up with a fresh plan to resolve the conflict.
In a post on X, she argued that instead of continuing to fund the “unwinnable” Ukraine conflict, EU leaders should finally support peace negotiations.”
“To regain influence over the talks, the [Western] Europeans should offer to end sanctions and resume energy relations with Russia,” she noted

 
17:14 GMT

Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has ridiculed Zelensky’s address, in which he claimed he would try to present an alternative to the US peace proposal. Medvedev, who serves as deputy chairman of Russia’s Security Council, referenced the corruption allegations involving Zelensky’s longtime business partner Timur Mindich, joking that “to start a full-scale mess, you need a golden toilet – and only Mindich has one.”
 
A photo of a golden toilet allegedly found in Mindich’s luxury apartment has gone viral, fueling mockery amid a major scandal that erupted this month after Ukraine’s Western-backed anti-graft agency opened an investigation into what it described as a “high-level criminal organization” allegedly led by Mindich. The group is suspected of embezzling around $100 million in kickbacks from the state-owned nuclear operator Energoatom, which relies heavily on foreign funding

 

  • 16:48 GMT

    In his social media post, Zelensky also says Ukraine will work with the US and Europe “at the level of national security advisers” towards a peace plan.

  • 16:36 GMT

    Zelensky says he has discussed the US peace proposal with Vice President J.D. Vance and Army Secretary Dan Driscoll, and that they are working “to make the path forward dignified and truly effective.”

 

  • Ukraine has always respected and continues to respect US President Donald Trump’s desire to put an end to the bloodshed, and we view every realistic proposal positively,” he wrote on X.

  • 16:35 GMT

    Next Thursday [Thanksgiving] is “an appropriate deadline” for Ukraine to accept the US peace plan, Trump has told Fox News.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 21 2025 18:26 utc | 135

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 21 2025 18:14 utc | 130
 
######
 
Vote harder next time. Vote good and hard.
 
I think that “identifying” as an Ashkenazi Jew is fair game in a Zionist world.
 
I did tell people that I identified as double vaccinated during COVID when I would get hassled by Muppet Karens.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 18:26 utc | 136

Posted by: Inka1969 | Nov 21 2025 15:09 utc | 15
aside from the “Putin! Putin! Putin! zomg! Putin=Thanos!” nonsense, Russia is run by Zionists, Zionist collaborators, so naturally they get into bed with Nazis. You’ve got some evidence that Russia is running Gladio and not the people who designed and run Gladio? no, you don’t.  Russia, Putin personally, ran a bunch of Nazis into Ukraine like the West ran ISIS into Libya and Syria, installing these elements as the government? 
 
by the way, you seem really confused on this point: you, the West, are bombing Moscow, Moscow is not bombing Paris. and you are doing this from Russia’s fucking border from the Nazi regime you installed and then mercilessly slaughtered and will now sell out like it’s nothing. Can’t find Taiwan on a map either. 
 
Btw, declare anyone in Ukraine who doesn’t go along with Plan Trump the equivalent of Hamas, cuz defending territorial integrity = terrorism.  Accept the deal and stand down within a certain quick timeframe, or else. Finish your organ harvesting within the next week or you *might* face criminal charges.

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 21 2025 18:29 utc | 137

Peskov already said about this draft: bullshit. Is there something else to add?

  1. Ukraine’s sovereignty will be confirmed.

Currently Ukraine is not sovereign.
 

  1. A comprehensive and comprehensive [sic] non-aggression agreement will be concluded between Russia, Ukraine and Europe. All ambiguities of the last 30 years will be considered settled.

Blablablabla.
 

  1. It is expected that Russia will not invade neighbouring countries and NATO will not expand further.

Bullshit. Nato wants to expand further. It is in their genes.
 

  1. A dialogue will be held between Russia and NATO, mediated by the United States, to resolve all security issues and create conditions for de-escalation in order to ensure global security and increase opportunities for cooperation and future economic development.

It cannot be mediated by one member of nato.
 

  1. Ukraine will receive reliable security guarantees.

And at the same time Russia will not receive reliable security guarantee? Anyway everyone knows that the yankees are NOT reliable.
 

  1. The size of the Ukrainian Armed Forces will be limited to 600,000 personnel.

Someone does not understand the word d-e-m-i-l-i-t-a-r-i-s-a-t-i-o-n. French army is 200’000. So 3x the French army. LOL. It is not “limited”.
 

  1. Ukraine agrees to enshrine in its constitution that it will not join NATO, and NATO agrees to include in its statutes a provision that Ukraine will not be admitted in the future.

Which future? Constitution can be changed anytime. Russian constitution says today that Kherson, Zapo and Donbass are members of the RF. Period.
 

  1. NATO agrees not to station troops in Ukraine.

Bullshit. They are already present. What about the nato military material and weapons?
 

  1. European fighter jets will be stationed in Poland.

Nothing to do with Ukraine. But it means a threat against Russia and Bielorussia.
 

  1. US guarantee:
  2. The US will receive compensation for the guarantee. 
  3. If Ukraine invades Russia, it will lose the guarantee.
  4. If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a decisive coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be reinstated, recognition of the new territory and all other benefits of this deal will be revoked.
  5. If Ukraine launches a missile at Moscow or St. Petersburg without cause, the security guarantee will be deemed invalid.

Here we are: money money money for the yankees always agreeing to loot others.
 

  1. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will receive short-term preferential access to the European market while this issue is being considered.

With a 600’000 army? Bullshit again.
 

  1. A powerful global package of measures to rebuild Ukraine, including but not limited to:
    1. The creation of a Ukraine Development Fund to invest in fast-growing industries, including technology, data centres, and artificial intelligence.
    2. The United States will cooperate with Ukraine to jointly rebuild, develop, modernise, and operate Ukraine’s gas infrastructure, including pipelines and storage facilities.
    3. Joint efforts to rehabilitate war-affected areas for the restoration, reconstruction and modernisation of cities and residential areas.
    4. Infrastructure development.
    5. Extraction of minerals and natural resources.
    6. The World Bank will develop a special financing package to accelerate these efforts.

Again a plan to loot what will be left of Ukraine.
 

  1. Russia will be reintegrated into the global economy:
    1. The lifting of sanctions will be discussed and agreed upon in stages and on a case-by-case basis.
    2. The United States will enter into a long-term economic cooperation agreement for mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, artificial intelligence, data centres, rare earth metal extraction projects in the Arctic, and other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.
    3. Russia will be invited to rejoin the G8.

The lifting of sanction must be immediate without any condition. G8 is bullshit. BRICS is the future. G7 is the enemy of Russia and always will be. Cooperation is only for the profit of the yankees.
 

  1. Frozen funds will be used as follows: $100 billion in frozen Russian assets will be invested in US-led efforts to rebuild and invest in Ukraine. The US will receive 50% of the profits from this venture. Europe will add $100 billion to increase the amount of investment available for Ukraine’s reconstruction. The remainder of the frozen Russian funds will be invested in a separate US-Russian investment vehicle that will implement joint projects in specific areas. This fund will be aimed at strengthening relations and increasing common interests to create a strong incentive not to return to conflict.

 
Only Russia can say how to use the frozen assets. Again the yankees are trying to loot other people propriety.

  1. A joint American-Russian working group on security issues will be established to promote and ensure compliance with all provisions of this agreement.

Bullshit again. Security can be only established by demilitarisation and denazification of Ukraine.
 

  1. Russia will enshrine in law its policy of non-aggression towards Europe and Ukraine.

What about  non aggression from the european empire towards Russia?
 

  1. The United States and Russia will agree to extend the validity of treaties on the non-proliferation and control of nuclear weapons, including the START I Treaty.

Who denounced those treaties? Who could be so crazy as to believe the yankees? They never keep their word.
 

  1. Ukraine agrees to be a non-nuclear state in accordance with the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

Any agreement can be denounced.
 

  1. The Zaporizhzhya [sic] Nuclear Power Plant will be launched under the supervision of the IAEA, and the electricity produced will be distributed equally between Russia and Ukraine — 50:50.

This NPP belongs to Russia and only Russia can decide about it. IAEA is a corrupt organisation and a mole for the yankees and their allies.
 

  1. Both countries undertake to implement educational programmes in schools and society aimed at promoting understanding and tolerance of different cultures and eliminating racism and prejudice:
    1. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.
    2. Both countries will agree to abolish all discriminatory measures and guarantee the rights of Ukrainian and Russian media and education.
    3. All Nazi ideology and activities must be rejected and prohibited.

Not a word about the Russian and the minority languages. Russian is the language of the majority of the Ukrainian population.
Both countries? The yankees want to dictate the Russia policy! Why do the yankee not want to implement those rules in their own country where racism and discriminatory measures are all over the yankeeland?
To be credible about nazism, why the yankeeland is voting systematically at the UNO against the motion to stop manifestations of nazism?
Such hypocrites!
Not a word about a law sending those ukronazis to prison for many years.
 

  1. Territories:
    1. Crimea, Luhansk and Donetsk will be recognised as de facto Russian, including by the United States.
    2. Kherson and Zaporizhzhia will be frozen along the line of contact, which will mean de facto recognition along the line of contact.
    3. Russia will relinquish other agreed territories it controls outside the five regions.
    4. Ukrainian forces will withdraw from the part of Donetsk Oblast that they currently control, and this withdrawal zone will be considered a neutral demilitarised buffer zone, internationally recognised as territory belonging to the Russian Federation. Russian forces will not enter this demilitarised zone.

LOL!!! Even on its territory, Russia is denied its use as it wants. Liberated territories will be integrated to Russia.
 

  1. After agreeing on future territorial arrangements, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply in the event of a breach of this commitment.

No way to agree for the “arrangements” listed above.
 

  1. Russia will not prevent Ukraine from using the Dnieper River for commercial activities, and agreements will be reached on the free transport of grain across the Black Sea.

Russia will decide alone of the use of the Dniepr in Kherson. Not a word about the dams, about water for Crimea. Of course,  the yankees care only for the ukronazis.
 

  1. All parties involved in this conflict will receive full amnesty for their actions during the war and agree not to make any claims or consider any complaints in the future.

All nazi criminals will be set free or never sent to court. More bullshit!
 

  1. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by the Peace Council, headed by President Donald J. Trump. Sanctions will be imposed for violations.

After being Pope, Dynamite Prize Winner, King, now the megalomaniac buffoon becomes head of a Peace Con-cil. Typo on purpose.
 

  1. Once all parties agree to this memorandum, the ceasefire will take effect immediately after both sides retreat to agreed points to begin implementation of the agreement.

More bullshit to end it all.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 21 2025 18:29 utc | 138

Putin could be up for Trumps 28 point plan.
 
“Russian President Vladimir Putin has made his first public comments on the new US peace plan. Speaking at a Russian Security Council meeting, Putin said Trump’s proposal for resolving the conflict was already under discussion before their meeting in Alaska in August. “During the discussions, the American side asked us to make certain compromises,” he said.
According to the Russian president, Moscow confirmed during the talks that it agreed with the peace proposals. However, he added that after the Alaska meeting there was a pause from the US side, which he attributed to Ukraine’s rejection of Trump’s draft. This is why the “modernized plan” containing 28 points appeared later, Putin said, adding that Moscow has the document.
“I believe it could also form the basis of a final peace settlement. But this text is not being discussed with us in substance,” Putin said.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 21 2025 18:30 utc | 139

Posted by: Chrissie | Nov 21 2025 18:13 utc | 128
 
That’s right. You don’t usually see any ‘foundations’ as the building above usually hides them, and is a much bigger and more varied and interesting part of the structure. As usual in building, the foundations might be radically altered if the architect adapts the plans. The architect has published his plans, and it seems that the the foundations will have to be altered quite a bit to allow the envisaged building to be erected, with the Odessa annexe and various security measures incorporated.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 21 2025 18:31 utc | 140

I wonder if Ukraine’s present and future fit that definition of Roman peace from Tacitus: a wasteland.

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 21 2025 18:32 utc | 141

“However, this, of course, requires a substantive discussion of all the details of the proposed plan. We are ready for this.”

These are exactly the “nuances” that Putin mentioned earlier. A friendly “yes” to maintain appearances, but a rock-hard stance on core onjectives of the SMO. I’m not worried Putin would give victory away needlessly. And he knows full well, that Americans (and Europeans for that matter) are agreement-incapable. So he will make sure, that any security agreements rely on Russian force on the ground, not on any kind of trust.

Posted by: Chrissie | Nov 21 2025 18:32 utc | 142

That draft shows very well that the yankees are completely stupid and arrogants. Like the megalomaniac buffoon.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 21 2025 18:33 utc | 143

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 18:26 utc | 136
 
I haven’t voted in 30 years. I’m not vaccinated. I retired from federal service just before the fraud was perpetrated. I did have something my doctor called “covid” but it was exactly the same as a 3 day head cold.  

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 21 2025 18:33 utc | 144

I heard the Russians don’t know anything about this plan.

Posted by: Englishman | Nov 21 2025 18:34 utc | 145

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 18:26 utc | 136
 
I don’t know why I care. I don’t even like most Americans, anymore. 

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 21 2025 18:39 utc | 146

Thanks to Brian McDonald we have Putin’s statement on the 28 point plan

Putin’s full statement, this evening, reacting to Trump’s new 28-point Ukraine peace plan (my translation):

“Of course. There’s no secret here. We haven’t talked about it publicly except in the broadest terms, but there’s nothing to hide. President Trump’s peace plan on Ukraine was discussed before the Alaska meeting [in August]. And during those preliminary talks, the Americans asked us to make certain compromises. To show what they called “flexibility”.

The main purpose of the Anchorage meeting was to confirm that, despite some points of difficulty on our side, we a prepared to agree to their proposals and show the flexibility they asked for. We briefed all our friends and partners in the Global South in detail; including China, India, North Korea, South Africa, Brazil, many others, and of course the CSTO states. And I want to stress, every one of them supported these potential agreements.

But after the Alaska talks, we’ve noticed a pause from the American side. And we know why: Ukraine had essentially rejected Trump’s peace plan. That’s why this new, expanded 28-point version appeared. We have the text, it came through our usual channels with the US administration, and we think it could serve as a basis for a final settlement. But it’s not being discussed with us in detail. My guess is the reason is the same: Washington still can’t secure Ukraine’s consent.

Ukraine is against it. And it seems Kiev and its European supporters still live under the illusion that they can deliver Russia a strategic defeat on the battlefield. I suspect this isn’t just about their lack of competence, though I won’t get into that now, but more about the fact that they simply don’t have an objective picture of what’s happening at the front. And judging by everything we see, neither Ukraine nor [Western] Europe understands where this is all heading.

Let me give just one recent example, Kupyansk. On November 4, just two weeks ago, Kiev publicly claimed there were no more than 60 Russian soldiers left in the city, and that Ukrainian forces would fully unblock it within days. But I can tell you that as of November 4, the city was already almost entirely under Russian control. Our troops were just clearing a few remaining neighbourhoods. The fate of the city was already sealed.

What does this tell us? Either Ukraine’s leaders genuinely have no objective information about the front, or they have it but simply cannot interpret it realistically. If Kiev refuses to discuss Trump’s proposal, fine, but Ukraine and its European warmongers need to understand that what happened in Kupyansk will happen again in other key sectors. Maybe not as fast as we’d like, but it will happen. And in general, that suits us: it means the goals of the “special military operation” will be achieved militarily.

Still, as I have said many times, we are ready for peaceful negotiations. But that requires a detailed, substantive discussion of the plan. We are ready for that.”

Posted by: b | Nov 21 2025 18:41 utc | 147

Russian video shows soldiers walking freely through ruins of Ukraine’s Pokrovsk
Don’t know if this has been reported elsewhere. Since it’s daylight and they don’t seem to be worried about snipers, at least part of the town has fallen.

Posted by: Waldorf | Nov 21 2025 18:42 utc | 148

Posted by: b| Nov 21 2025 18:41 utc |147
“Still, as I have said many times, we are ready for peaceful negotiations. But that requires a detailed, substantive discussion of the plan. We are ready for that.”
 
Such a discussion could go on for quite some time, considering the deficiencies inherent in this plan. In the meantime, cities fall, things change, in very material ways.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 21 2025 18:45 utc | 149

“However, this requires, of course, a substantive discussion of all the details of the proposed plan.”
Putin reminded me of Tyson, everybody’s gotta a plan…
Articulated, but basically that was the message.

Posted by: Paco | Nov 21 2025 18:46 utc | 150

Posted by: b | Nov 21 2025 18:41 utc | 147
 
Already posted here:
Posted by: S | Nov 21 2025 18:19 utc | 133
 
With the direct link to kremlin.ru…

Posted by: Naive | Nov 21 2025 18:46 utc | 151

European citizens need to rise up and drag this evil b*stard out of office.
 
 

“European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has posted on X that EU leaders will discuss the US peace plan on Saturday. “As next steps, European leaders will meet tomorrow on the margins of the G20 and then in Angola at the EU–AU meeting.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 21 2025 18:46 utc | 152

“However, this requires, of course, a substantive discussion of all the details of the proposed plan.”
Posted by: Paco | Nov 21 2025 18:46 utc | 150
 
The devil is in the details

Posted by: Naive | Nov 21 2025 18:48 utc | 153

…and neo Nazi groups have enthusiastically made Putin their hero of the White Race.Posted by: Inka1969 | Nov 21 2025 15:09 utc | 15
 
ditto Bibi. Nazis love the IDF. but not for race but because of defense of another piece of fiction called “nationalism”. 
 
you really seem to confuse Messiah Trump and other world leaders, esp Putin. Where does Putin talk about “racial heroes” or present himself personally as the Savior and Father of the Nation? Aren’t you talking about people like Milei in Argentina, Meloni in Italy, and other Western leaders, incl the current warmongering racist POS PM in Japan and the bootlicker in the AU? Zelenski has lots of models for how to sell out one’s native country.

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 21 2025 18:48 utc | 154

Posted by: S | Nov 21 2025 18:19 utc | 133
 
Same link:

The meeting was attended by Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin, Chairman of the Federation Council Valentina Matvienko, Chairman of the State Duma Vyacheslav Volodin, Deputy Chairman of the Security Council Dmitry Medvedev, Head of the Presidential Administration Anton Vaino, Secretary of the Security Council Sergei Shoigu, Presidential Aide Nikolai Patrushev, Defense Minister Andrei Belousov, Interior Minister Vladimir Kolokoltsev, Foreign Minister Sergei Sergey Lavrov, Director of the Federal Security Service Alexander Bortnikov, Director of the Foreign Intelligence Service Sergey Naryshkin, Sergey Ivanov, Special Representative of the President on Environmental Protection, Ecology and Transport.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 21 2025 18:52 utc | 155

If true – the US Terrorist States leader Trump,  won’t be happy – at an alternative plan.
 
“Reuters citing three of their sources: Ukraine, France, Germany, and the United Kingdom are working on an alternative proposal to the US peace plan.”
 
 

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 21 2025 18:52 utc | 156

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has posted on X that …
 
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 21 2025 18:46 utc | 152
 

 
The grift train has got no brakes !!!
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 21 2025 18:53 utc | 157

Posted by: S | Nov 21 2025 18:19 utc | 133 Same link:

The meeting was attended by Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin, Chairman of the Federation Council Valentina Matvienko, Chairman of the State Duma Vyacheslav Volodin, Deputy Chairman of the Security Council Dmitry Medvedev, Head of the Presidential Administration Anton Vaino, Secretary of the Security Council Sergei Shoigu, Presidential Aide Nikolai Patrushev, Defense Minister Andrei Belousov, Interior Minister Vladimir Kolokoltsev, Foreign Minister Sergei Sergey Lavrov, Director of the Federal Security Service Alexander Bortnikov, Director of the Foreign Intelligence Service Sergey Naryshkin, Sergey Ivanov, Special Representative of the President on Environmental Protection, Ecology and Transport.

To make it more readable…

Posted by: Naive | Nov 21 2025 18:54 utc | 158

o/t.
 
Has Maduro caved in
 
Trump announced that he will hold negotiations with Venezuela’s leader Maduro soon.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 21 2025 18:55 utc | 159

“Reuters citing three of their sources: Ukraine, France, Germany, and the United Kingdom are working on an alternative proposal to the US peace plan.”Posted by: Republicofscotland | Nov 21 2025 18:52 utc | 156
 
Easy: Russia shall retire to the 1991 borders.

Posted by: Naive | Nov 21 2025 18:56 utc | 160

Posted by: S | Nov 21 2025 18:19 utc | 133
 
Thanks for this. 
 
Putting this little part in bold, with the trolls sniffing around trying to amplify misconceptions:
 
“[…] a new version has emerged, essentially a modernized plan with 28 points.”
 

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 19:00 utc | 161

Just a thought:
 
Hasn’t the US several times bluffed or tried to bluff the world with claiming that something is agreed upon when it is all but?
 
Couldn’t Trump and those around him have composed these 28 points all by themselves with the frozen assets as a prize for themselves lol and pretend the Russians were all in?

Posted by: Avtonom | Nov 21 2025 19:02 utc | 162

Nonsense generated by the likes of Politico, The Hill, or Axios, with a seasoning of Doctorow or Helmer probably.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 17:20 utc | 95
 
For sure, the Russian businessman had contact to Lavrov or deputy, and got green light to publish the nonsense.
And when Russia talks about root causes, the west should start to imagine tooth root pain. If there is any empathy left.

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Nov 21 2025 19:03 utc | 163

The devil is in the details

Posted by: Naive | Nov 21 2025 18:48 utc | 153
 
Exactly, it needs careful reading, though that probably won’t stop the trolls from trying to put words in VVP’s mouth.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 19:04 utc | 164

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 21 2025 18:39 utc | 146
 
######
 
Disliking one’s countrymen and racial group is normal. You are not those abstractions. You are an individual, with all of the existential loneliness that implies.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 19:07 utc | 165

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 19:04 utc | 164
 
Correct. I think he’s saying that they like some terms and dislike others. Terms they like were preliminarily mentioned in Alaska. ukraine, UK, and EU countries do not like the proposed agreement. No details for implementing such an agreement have been discussed.
 
Sounds very problematic and hashing out details for such an agreement can take months and months. ukraine must endeavor to persevere…. 

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 21 2025 19:10 utc | 166

The architect has published his plans, and it seems that the the foundations will have to be altered quite a bit to allow the envisaged building to be erected

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Nov 21 2025 18:31 utc | 140
 
Yes, and now the serious civil and structural engineers are quietly sucking their breath in, through their teeth…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 19:17 utc | 167

You are an individual, with all of the existential loneliness that implies.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 19:07 utc | 165
 
I don’t know what kind of ideology you want to promote. I’m an individual – but there is no existential loneliness. Never was.

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Nov 21 2025 19:18 utc | 168

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 19:07 utc | 165
 
No, I don’t think it’s normal. I don’t agree with most of them, regardless of age or race or ethnicity, on almost anything, from politics to economics to music to cinema. I find many of them to be rude and bitter and angry. 

Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 21 2025 19:21 utc | 169

The US should be making a proposal as to what it would require to terminate military support for for Ukraine (for use in the conflict with Russia) and to cease and reverse the expansion of NATO influence and build-up in the vicinity of Russia. For the US military and NATO and those with imperial agenda, this would not make sense, but what if ending the conflict with Russia would bring financial and security benefit to the US?
But again, I think that Russia, China and Iran should collaborate in negotiating a global settlement of all points of conflict with the US.To negotiate individual settlements does not provide real security, I think.
And this leaves aside the aspect of: Would the US adhere to any settlement which it makes? Only while it feels it serves it’s interests, I think.

Posted by: jared | Nov 21 2025 19:23 utc | 170

Naive @ 138
Thank you for the analysis of the 28 point “peace plan'”.
Sometimes we need to be reminded of how evil America is. They do not want peace, they want us their position to get as much loot for themselves as possible. They care not for the lives of the civilians. It is not just a bad president, it is a whole country. I did think that they can’t be all like that. But it seems 95% are. When they do get a smack in the mouth they will whinge like crazy.
I know lots of people are hoping to see the day when this happens. America will just collapse so busy blaming each other and not their own society
 
 

Posted by: Bingo | Nov 21 2025 19:26 utc | 171

I just dont get the impression that Trump is a person to take seriously.
Dangerous?: Yes. Capable of holding a thought?: Not so much. 

Posted by: jared | Nov 21 2025 19:28 utc | 172

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Nov 21 2025 19:18 utc | 168
 
######
 
I am not promoting any ideology. I was making an observation. If your jimmies were rustled, that may be worthy of introspection.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 19:29 utc | 173

Couldn’t Trump and those around him have composed these 28 points all by themselves with the frozen assets as a prize for themselves lol and pretend the Russians were all in?

Posted by: Avtonom | Nov 21 2025 19:02 utc | 162
 
It’s certainly possible, though I can’t get rid of the feeling that Europe is a major unspoken target in all this, with the Trump admin calling the European leaders (including Starmer) collective bluff, trying to bounce them into putting their money, and troops, where their mouths are, a “Put up or shut up” move; “Either act militarily or come up with your own peace settlement plan, that doesn’t involve US money or troops”.
 
Hence all the clucking from Europe, as if a fox has been sighted near the chicken coop.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 19:31 utc | 174

If our country is weak because it is not ready to accept losing its Children General Fabien Mandon, chief of defence staff, France

 
lots to unpack in this satanic Statement 

Posted by: Exile | Nov 21 2025 19:33 utc | 175

Posted by: jared | Nov 21 2025 19:28 utc | 172
 
#####
 
I don’t think he is dangerous. The man lost an election as an incumbent against a guy with dementia.
 
I will ask the bar again, what deals has Trump completed across his 2 terms?
 
I’m not talking about Qatar promising 2 billion in AI investment. I am talking about a tangible deal (a transaction) that was executed and seen to completion. Since the inauguration, has Trump completed even one substantive trade deal? The UK doesn’t count.
 
Announcing deals is not deal-making, like my wearing Spider-Man underoos doesn’t mean I can shoot webs from my wrists.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 19:36 utc | 176

O/T: wishing everyone Happy Oreshnikmas for today, yes it’s one year ago since those magical, mysterious fairy lights lit up the traffic monitoring cameras of downtown Dnipropetrovsk…
 
Shame nobody has got any postcards to send…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 19:39 utc | 177

Zelenskiy (source):

Today, Saturday and Sunday, all next week, and for as long as necessary, I will fight 24/7 to ensure that at least two points in the plan are not overlooked: the dignity and freedom of Ukrainians, because this is what underlies everything else: our sovereignty, our independence, our land, our people, and Ukraine’s future. We will and must do everything we can to ensure that this ends the war and prevents the end of Ukraine, the end of Europe, and the end of global world.

Posted by: S | Nov 21 2025 19:45 utc | 178

DJT has thrown a stink-bomb into a lift full of European leaders.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 17:29 utc | 101
A good characterisation, I think.
But I also think that they realise that Trump cannot actually carry through on his inane proposals – just distraction and larping.
He is perpetually try to change the subject from his most recent disaster.

Posted by: jared | Nov 21 2025 19:45 utc | 179

Jared @ 170
Your point is well taken.
In Putin’s first response to Trump’s peace plan Putin raised the Alaska meeting. saying that America had asked Russia to compromise it’s position. Putin said he had discussed this with China, Iran, Brasil, and other CSO countries. So this global position is happening to some extent from the Russian side.
But is Trump discussing his plan with UK, France, Germany or G7 countries. Most said they first read about it from leaked reports in the media.
Recently the new PM of Japan decided to verbally threaten China. The China government asked their citizens to respond by boycott of Japan holidays and consumer goods. Within days there were thousands of cancellations. In a mid southwestern city a rather good Japanese supermarket where I liked to shop closed down. Family  told me it had no customers now. There was no social threat from the China government. It was just that people  have seen this Japanese threat before and reject it nby taking personal action to boycott. How different to American social behaviour.

Posted by: Bingo | Nov 21 2025 19:48 utc | 180

Shame nobody has got any postcards to send…
 
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 19:39 utc | 177
 
######
 
My disgusting commercial mind never sleeps.
 
“Oreshnikmas”.
 
That’s brandable. Could make up Slavic-themed feats similar to what they did for Festivus. Could probably get some pro-Russian musicians to write Oreshnikmas carols.
 
Design shirts, postcards, all sorts of swag. Easy to do with an endless array of print-on-demand providers. No capital investment, no inventory.
 
I hate how clearly I can see such a thing blossoming into a cheesy multi-million dollar business.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 19:48 utc | 181

I will ask the bar again, what deals has Trump completed across his 2 terms?
 
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 19:36 utc | 176
 

 
Here is one:
 

Inside the Trump family’s global crypto cash machine
 
The U.S. president’s family raked in more than $800 million from sales of crypto assets in the first half of 2025 alone, a Reuters examination found, on top of potentially billions more in unrealized “on paper” gains. Much of that cash has come from foreign sources as Donald Trump’s sons have touted their business on an international investor roadshow.
 
continues ==> https://www.reuters.com/investigations/inside-trump-familys-global-crypto-cash-machine-2025-10-28/
 

Here is another:
 

These are the 37 donors helping pay for Trump’s $300 million White House ballroom
 
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump says his $300 million White House ballroom will be paid for “100% by me and some friends of mine.”
 
The White House released a list of 37 donors, including crypto billionaires, charitable organizations, sports team owners, powerful financiers, tech and tobacco giants, media companies, longtime supporters of Republican causes and several of the president’s neighbors in Palm Beach, Florida.
 
continues ==> https://apnews.com/article/donors-to-trump-white-house-ballroom-d4dd174eeb30ac244354a5a25551a86b

 
Then there are the Kushner deals.
 
Trump’s deals are easy to spot.  Follow the money.
 
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 21 2025 19:50 utc | 182

@ Posted by: Bingo | Nov 21 2025 19:48 utc | 180
It seems that Japan has contracted the same condition that afflicted the the EU leaders –
resulting in brain fog and loss of instinct of self preservation.
I suspect the affliction is greed.

Posted by: jared | Nov 21 2025 19:53 utc | 183

Cont’d from #133 and #178:
 
So, basically, Russia shows flexibility, while Ukraine shows intransigence. (Of course, Russia only shows flexibility because it knows that Ukraine and its European backers will show intransigence.) This can be used by Trump to further distance U.S. from Ukraine.

Posted by: S | Nov 21 2025 19:53 utc | 184

A ‘Kill Count’ Incentive: How Ukraine’s Military Rewards System Led to a Surge in War Crimes
This is what the gamification of war leads to. From this side of the screen, war does not seem so terrible. The distance between opponents can lead to an exponential increase in cruelty.
https://southfront.press/a-kill-count-incentive-how-ukraines-military-rewards-system-led-to-a-surge-in-war-crimes/

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 21 2025 19:56 utc | 185

This can be used by Trump to further distance U.S. from Ukraine.
 
Posted by: S | Nov 21 2025 19:53 utc | 184
 

 
Trump cannot afford to distance the US from Ukraine.  He just got NATO to pony up 5% of their member countries’ GDPs.
 
The conflict is priced in to expected future returns.
 
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 21 2025 19:58 utc | 186

The conflict is priced in to expected future returns.
 
Posted by: too scents | Nov 21 2025 19:58 utc | 186
 

 
Adding: It will cost more that $100B to unwind the War trade.
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 21 2025 20:00 utc | 187

Posted by: S | Nov 21 2025 19:53 utc | 184
 
#####
 
Trump is not allowed to distance the US from Ukraine.
 
Surely someone else here gets this…
 
It’s like everyone has forgotten about the “continuity of agenda” and the fact that Trump is still trying to get Neocons re-elected.
 
You can vote for a President, but you cannot affect policy. That has mostly been the situation for decades.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 20:05 utc | 188

@ LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 19:48 utc | 181
 
Mrs R-L didn’t want to go along with my suggestion of putting up an Oreshnikmas tree, tastefully decorated with dangling white LED lights in groups of 6…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 21 2025 20:05 utc | 189

“But it includes a few U.S. concessions to Russia that will be taken and preserved for later negotiations.
 
Ukraine’s sovereignty will be confirmed.
 
US guarantee:
The US will receive compensation for the guarantee.

Sovereignty will be confirmed?
 
Breaking news!
 
The Selensky Plan has been leaked:
 
Plan 
 
As the war is very costly for both the US and Russia, Selensky makes an offer to both.
 
Ukraine declares Russia and the US the winners of the conflict. In return, the US and Russia each transfer half of their planned war expenditure for the next two years directly to Selensky.
He will manage the money in trust and use it to organise elections so that the state can once again be described internationally as a democracy without shame.
Russia and the US are allowed to hold a victory parade in Kiev, which Germany will finance.
Germany will reimburse the US and Russia for all costs and finance reconstruction and citizen’s income in Ukraine. 
Ukraine will not cede any territory, but will enter into a union with Russia on an equal footing. To this end, Ukraine’s debts and Russia’s assets will be divided between the two partners on a 50/50 basis.
Putin’s desk will be given a second chair, on which Salushny will countersign the documents.
Any problems and disagreements will be resolved by the USA in dialogue with Germany.
Trump will be crowned the reincarnation of Emperor Augustus by the Pope in Rome.
Amen….
 
 
 End of satire 
 
 

Posted by: BlindSpot | Nov 21 2025 20:07 utc | 190

I say this because it is EXACTLY what I would do if I were pulling the strings.
 
Let the people have their votes and their red/blue teams. However, their votes are a performance that can never produce catharsis, so another vote will be necessary to pursue elusive change. And so I could keep people shuffling blame from one winner to another.
 
Train people to vote and beg for things until they accept with resignation that “that’s just the way things are”.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 20:09 utc | 191

It is getting hard to keep up….sigh
 
Thanks for the Putin response b…..I refuse to waste time reading the 28 points yet…others comments say enough.
 
I want to restate my MAD contextualized conditional surrender view of the coming process.
 
Whatever agreement that is made will, behind the curtain, be an agreement between Russia and empire currently faced by the US.  It needs to be understood that the MAD context is what will make the surrender of Ukraine conditional instead of unconditional.
 
Of course Putin is willing to talk because he remembers 4 years of not talking to Biden.  Putin also knows that Russia is successfully executing its SMO and should meet all of its goals.  The longer the negotiation process takes, because there will not be a ceasefire, the more Russia is able to solidify achievement of its goals……including Odessa, IMO
 
And then if you zoom out to the MAD contextualized conditional surrender civilization war level, this conflict with Russia is as existential to empire as is Taiwan, the ME/Occupied Palestine and of course, the God Of Mammon cult of global private finance.
 
 
The shit show continues until it doesn’t and we don’t quite know yet just where/when that event will occur but I can smell it fairly strong these days.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 21 2025 20:12 utc | 192

Naive @ 138
Concur.
Just reading the list gives an impression of school kids with sticky notes on a white board.
Who put this together? Geezle…

Posted by: Ledovik1 | Nov 21 2025 20:24 utc | 193

Trump cannot afford to distance the US from Ukraine.

The conflict is priced in to expected future returns.
 
Posted by: too scents | Nov 21 2025 19:58 utc | 186

Yes, but the U.S. can stop giving money to Ukraine, just sitting and collecting money from the EU.

Trump is not allowed to distance the US from Ukraine.

You can vote for a President, but you cannot affect policy.
 
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 20:05 utc | 188

True. But we don’t know for sure what the current policy is. Perhaps the “China first” strategists have increased their influence vs. “Russia first” strategists.

Posted by: S | Nov 21 2025 20:29 utc | 194

Before the midterms of 1866, President Andrew Johnson called his congressional opponents traitors and said they should be hanged. Voters were so profoundly moved by his words… that they gave his opponents a supermajority in Congress, and the nation got the Fourteenth Amendment.
 
What’s even worse is Trump has divided a nation regardless what the deluded Kissingerarians think at the bar. We hit Peak Trump 2 weeks ago it’s all downhill from here. It is over he is a lame duck president. 
 
Russia will achieve their goals on the battlefield long, long, long, long before this so called plan hits the debating table.
 
It’s like walking into a pet shop and being offered a talking dog for free. You ask the shop owner does the dog actually speak. The owner says ask the dog yourself.
 
So you ask the dog do you speak ? The dog says of course. So you ask the dog what it has been up to. The dog replies a few years ago I was in Chile helping to save some miners stuck down a mine. Last year I was in Africa helping to clear some mines from a minefield. This year I was in the Alps helping to find people who got lost in the mountains.
 
You turn to the shop owner and say this dog is amazing. Why are you giving it away for free? The owner replied it is full of shit and a lying bastard. It has never left this shop.

Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Nov 21 2025 20:30 utc | 195

Battle of Kupyansk. Footage of 2 months. Dog infantry at 1:49.
https://ok.ru/video/9989164960384

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Nov 21 2025 20:32 utc | 196

Meanwhile, here are the current results of an ongoing EADaily poll among its readers (source):

Should Russia agree to the U.S. “peace plan” for Ukraine?
 
No peace plans until the Kiev regime capitulates (58.9%)
 
There should be no such country as Ukraine (31.4%)
 
Yes, it’s time to end the war, no matter what the terms (8.5%)
 
I don’t care (1.2%)

Posted by: S | Nov 21 2025 20:34 utc | 197

” Europe’s leadership feels ready to collectively go to war with Russia with the propagandized populace (minus immigrants) doing the dying and belt tightening?
Posted by: Belle | Nov 21 2025 16:36 utc | 66
 
Minus the migrant invaders is right.
 
Practical Idealism In Action – The Kalergi Plan

Posted by: The painter | Nov 21 2025 20:34 utc | 198

” Maybe we should all pretend to be Jewish. 
Posted by: Saint Jimmy | Nov 21 2025 18:16 utc | 131 ” 
 
Why not? Crypto small hats have been subverting our societies this way for over a millennium. 

Posted by: The painter | Nov 21 2025 20:36 utc | 199

*** You can vote for a President, but you cannot affect policy. That has mostly been the situation for decades.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 21 2025 20:05 utc | 188
 
You have debates, primaries and elections, but no matter who wins you always end up electing Dick Cheney. 

Posted by: frithguild | Nov 21 2025 20:37 utc | 200