Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 25, 2025
Executive Order Provides For Bailout Of Overextended AI Companies

In December 2024 President Donald Trump named venture capitalist David O. Sacks as the “White House A.I. & Crypto Czar.”

Sacks is set to guide the administration’s policies for artificial intelligence and cryptocurrency.

AI-researcher Gary Markus is wondering how two recent tweets by Gary Sacks relate to each other:

One theory of capitalism holds that every company should be left to their own devices, with state intervention kept a minimum. This view was well articulated just a few weeks ago, by White House AI and Crypto Czar and well-known podcaster, David O. Sacks:

David Sacks @DavidSacks – 16:52 UTC · Nov 6, 2025

There will be no federal bailout for AI. The U.S. has at least 5 major frontier model companies. If one fails, others will take its place.

The other theory of capitalism, if we can indeed call it that, holds that we should bailout important companies or industries that might overextend themselves. Quite the opposite from the above.

This latter theory, almost a form of safety-net socialism for overextended companies, seemed to be implied today, in a tweet that seemed to be laying the groundwork for bailout, by none other than … White House AI and Crypto Czar and well-known podcaster, David O. Sacks:

David Sacks @DavidSacks – 17:34 UTC · Nov 24, 2025

According to today’s WSJ, AI-related investment accounts for half of GDP growth. A reversal would risk recession. We can’t afford to go backwards.

The WSJ report Sacks mentions, archived here, is indeed gloomy:

The economy’s dependence on AI comes with risks. Stock price/earnings ratios are near record highs. If lofty profit predictions prove wrong, share prices may tumble and investment could slow. The S&P 500 fell about 2% last week on concerns about a bubble, despite rallying 1% on Friday.

Falling stocks could trigger a reverse wealth effect: Americans would consume less, which would tend to depress sales, profits and, potentially, employment.

If AI investment stopped growing, that could knock another 0.5 point off growth, Millar estimates. If it went to zero, that would knock a full percentage point off.

Another risk relates to the growing scale of AI-related borrowing.

If the revenue necessary to service that debt doesn’t materialize, lenders could take a hit, spilling over into debt markets, said Berezin.

China is letting the first type of capitalism reign their Artificial Intelligence efforts:

Rather than pick winners and losers, China states the policy objective and hundreds of commercial initiatives compete using diverse strategies to fulfil the ambition. Instead of a ‘winner takes all subsidies’ China gets a diverse, agile, ecosystem growing in parallel to its rapidly innovative economy.

Many Chinese models are published as open source and can be run on smaller clusters.

The U.S. has however decided to let the second form of capitalism rule its AI endeavors. There are only a few companies working on large AI projects. Their models are private and blocked from scrutiny. They are promising too much and are spending a huge amount of money. They are in need of ‘safety-net socialism for overextended companies’.

To provide for this the White House issued an Executive Order on:

LAUNCHING THE GENESIS MISSION

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered:

Section 1. Purpose. From the founding of our Republic, scientific discovery and technological innovation have driven American progress and prosperity. Today, America is in a race for global technology dominance in the development of artificial intelligence (AI), an important frontier of scientific discovery and economic growth. To that end, my Administration has taken a number of actions to win that race, including issuing multiple Executive Orders and implementing America’s AI Action Plan, which recognizes the need to invest in AI-enabled science to accelerate scientific advancement. In this pivotal moment, the challenges we face require a historic national effort, comparable in urgency and ambition to the Manhattan Project that was instrumental to our victory in World War II and was a critical basis for the foundation of the Department of Energy (DOE) and its national laboratories.

The Department of Energy is ordered to direct the initiative combining federal laboratories and ‘industry partners’:

Within 90 days of the date of this order, the Secretary shall identify Federal computing, storage, and networking resources available to support the Mission, including both DOE on-premises and cloud-based high-performance computing systems, and resources available through industry partners. The Secretary shall also identify any additional partnerships or infrastructure enhancements that could support the computational foundation for the Platform.

The federal government will of course have to pay for those private resources.

Research with the help of AI will be done in six high priority fields. The timeline provided in the Executive Order is extremely ambitious.

Besides providing the instruments for a bailout the Executive Order is also creating the means of central control over AI and its application:

If you strip away the branding, Genesis is the U.S. government building a national AI backbone inside the Department of Energy and then inviting the biggest private sector AI players to plug into it.

But underneath, it centralizes the AI stack. Instead of letting the highest end compute and model capabilities drift entirely into the private sector, Genesis pulls them back into a structured federal environment. Access becomes conditional: follow the safety rules, share the data, integrate into the platform and you get to operate at the frontier. Don’t, and you’re on the outside looking in.

Genesis is the beginning of a nationalized AI infrastructure strategy. It will function as the bridge between government compute and private sector models, letting Washington influence which companies sit closest to the frontier and which capabilities get priority. It will speed up real scientific breakthroughs, but it will also quietly define the rules of the AI race on who participates, who gets access, and how the most powerful systems are directed.

By allowing for a bailout of over extended AI companies via ‘Manhattan Project’ sized federal spending Trump is also attempting to prevent a stock market slump that would cost the Republicans the majority in the House.

Comments

You mean, in the West, right?
 
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 19:14 utc | 98
 

 
Eigenvalues work the same way everywhere.  Hokum?  Not so much.
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 25 2025 19:19 utc | 101

Modern definitions of fascism refer to a centralised power structure, however the traditional symbology only sometimes included an axe. Other times it was a bundle of arrows, etc.

The idea of fasci is simple, a grouping is more resistant than the individual. That would apply to many forms of society, for example.

It is up to reader to discern why negative conotation was applied, or why the term was appropriated in that way, as a modern definition.

Fasci, hence fascism, were being created well before Mussolini’s time in 19th century Italy. One example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasci_Siciliani

Which were democrat/anarchist/socialist/workers gatherings.

No point arguing definitions though, various exist and they all refer to different things. The above is the simplest or most straightforward or deconflicted.

Posted by: Ornot | Nov 25 2025 19:20 utc | 102

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 25 2025 19:05 utc | 93
 
######
 
Profit can be understood in multiple ways.
 
Most people mean financial profit. Dollars and cents.
 
Others see profit as “success”. To have a profitable workout, to have a profitable strategy. To have a profitable relationship.
The issue in the West, IMO, is that profit is not the well-being of their neighbors and family. It is all financial. Not compassionate, loyal, or cooperative.
 
Every living creature seeks “profit”. Flowers bend towards the sun, seeking more energy “profit”.
 
Without goals, life would be aimless. To achieve rational action (where the means align with the desired ends), goals are necessary.
 
Sane people generally don’t undertake significant action without a profit motive.
 
The West’s problem is the problem of libertarianism. Profit is only defined as individual wealth, not as community, growth, knowledge, peace, etc.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 19:21 utc | 103

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/11/25/onek-n25.htmlTrump’s Department of Education strips “professional” status from teaching, nursing and other essential fields
—-
My GP, I discovered recently, is using AI, ChatGPT i believe, to help write case notes to alleviate all the paperwork. When I was asked for permission, I replied, “Sure, I don’t care, as long as you know the goal of your employer, United Healthcare, is to replace you, the MD, with that machine you are feeding.” doctor no likey. after all that slaving away and debt for med school for years, to be tossed aside? indeed. the horror, to be treated like a common serviceworker and not at all as part of the “knowledge economy.” i hear massage parlors are hiring.

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 25 2025 19:23 utc | 104

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/11/25/onek-n25.html
(link fixed)

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 25 2025 19:24 utc | 105

Profit can be understood in multiple ways.
 
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 19:21 utc | 103
 

 
The proper way to understand profit is as surplus labour.  
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 25 2025 19:28 utc | 106

“corporations that do innovative work in that sector receive tax breaks-hence”
  – Canuk 64

The problem with the “tax-incentive” model is…wait for it…you have to be already making money for this to be of value to the creative team and as I pointed out, that’s rarely the case. 
 
Then too, if the enterprise is bought for pennies on the dollar why should the carpetbagging-buyer get a tax break for ripping off the most productive portion of our society?

Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 25 2025 19:28 utc | 107

psychohistorian | Nov 25 2025 19:05 utc | 93
 
I began reading the linked report and immediately had to guffaw at Energy Secretary Chris Wright’s remarks about the Manhattan Project “that brought World War II to an early and successful end,” which is 100% bullshit. Here’s another BigLie:
 

White House AI and Crypto Czar Michael Kratsios framed the mission as a historic power surge, noting “It’s a huge opportunity for the United States to continue to outpace the world in scientific discovery and innovation… the largest marshaling of the federal government scientific apparatus since the Apollo Project.” [My Emphasis]

 
And where is the Congressional appropriation of funding for this massive Apolloesque project?There was more nonsense spouted by various administration hacks that others can read at the article you linked. 

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 25 2025 19:29 utc | 108

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 19:21 utc | 103
 
-> Profit can be understood in different ways.
Yes
-> Most people mean financial profit. Dollars and cents.
I have no empirical data on whether “most” is accurate or just your subjective view.
In any case, it depends on the context what is meant in each case, and labeling the word alone is definitely wrong.

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 25 2025 19:33 utc | 109

It seems as infrequently happens I am in violent agreement with both the general thrust of comments and b’s informative article. Only to add that AI as we define it..Large Language Models..have specific use cases that are fantastic and measurably more accurate than human systems, famously for example if you train one on brain.scans they become more accurate than neurologists in early identification of tumors. These are excellent pattern matching systems. What they are decidedly not though is intelligent nor will LLMs lead to intelligent ‘machines’. They are your phones autocomplete on steroids. The AI crash is inevitable, the US government doesn’t have the dosh to bail them out.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 25 2025 19:34 utc | 110

Seems like the government is letting the private sector run amok – suddenly this moderately interesting concept is existential and we must spendly wildly beyond our means and build stuff which far exceeds our capability and if we dont commit to doing this right now then we will cease to exist as a free people. And if we do succeed we should not expect to have employment and will rely on the generosity of large corporporations and government.
Hope I am not exaggerating wildly. I fell like I saw this movie before.

Posted by: jared | Nov 25 2025 19:37 utc | 111

Excellent b,
 
The gold bugs fall for the same farce. Always been on the wrong side of the debate and especially when they call themselves populists.
 
 
It’s a lot more important than the 2 distinctions in the article . It’s  all.about SKILLS and REAL RESOURCES. Who gets to use them first.
 
 
Where a nation has its own currency, runs its own central bank, floats its currency on the currency markets and has no material state-owned debt in any other denomination, the government controlling the currency is in charge and sets the rules of the game.
Government can command any resources available for sale in its currency and can use its sovereign power to force those resources to be freed up so it can purchase them for the public good.
You can determine that business and banks are servants of the people. Government can take first choice of resources for the public purpose, then allow business and banks to work with what is left, before hoovering up any left over resources with a National Job Guarantee on a living wage.
 
The public wrap of the private system provides a containment vessel around the nuclear power of capitalism. We can draw its power without the boom. We can fuel it with public investment and improve the power output.
 
Or
 
That government is just another organisation in the system that has to compete for resources by price. Business and banks always get first choice of resources and government has to make do with the scraps. They believe the bankers and businesses should be in charge and that the population are just factors of production to be shifted around, like ingots of steel, as business requires.
 
 
Of course, how do you reign in the ” speculation industry” run by the  banks ?
 
At source of course…
 
https://new-wayland.com/blog/zirp-primer-summary/
 

Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Nov 25 2025 19:39 utc | 112

European Defense Stocks Take a Nosedive
Peace is bad for business

 

https://www.amerikanets.com/p/european-defense-stocks-take-a-nosedive

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 25 2025 19:40 utc | 113

An OT note. At today’s presser in Minsk, Lavrov said the following: 

So far, we have not received from our American colleagues..

 
 
If Lavrov thinks that the US are Russia’s “partners” then Russia is done for. JCoaPS, the US has had an 80 year project going to destroy Russia and take all its stuff. Someone needs to bring Lavrov into the twentieth(sic) century.

Posted by: acementhead | Nov 25 2025 19:41 utc | 114

I find it a bit ironic that one of the better investment in the market today is seen to be Palantir where by we can invest in our own enslavement.

Posted by: jared | Nov 25 2025 19:42 utc | 115

@Canuck:
Total nonsense.  Having an industrial policy is not fascism, it is just good sense:A-Model-Evaluation-Framework-for-Industrial-Policy-in-Canada.pdf

Posted by: Marian Ruccius | Nov 25 2025 19:43 utc | 116

measurably more accurate than human systems
 
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 25 2025 19:34 utc | 110
 

 
This is a falsehood, perhaps based upon shoddy statistics or purposely misleading statistics.
 
An AI system can only approach the accuracy of its training set, which is a human system.  It cannot exceed it as there is no “ground truth” against which it could then be measured.
 
Furthermore generative AI systems can go off the rails in ways that are very bad.
 
To see how bad search “adversarial AI input”.
 
https://www.google.com/search?q=adversarial+AI+input&udm=14
 

Posted by: too scents | Nov 25 2025 19:45 utc | 117

The Censorship Network: Regulation and Repression in Germany Today
https://liber-net.org/germany/
 

Posted by: smartfox | Nov 25 2025 19:46 utc | 118

Saab and Dassault suggested creating fighter production facilities in Ukraine. Surely those would be long-lived.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 25 2025 19:47 utc | 119

As soon as you look at it via the correct lens. As long as you are still able to still think for yourself and free yourself from the complete utter bullshit coming out of conservative and liberal propaganda outlets of the last 50 years.
 
You simply can’t miss what it is all about. That is SKILLS and REAL RESOURCES. Who gets to use them. Public purpose or private sector rent seeking.
 
https://new-wayland.com/blog/great-fiscal-sleight-of-hand/
 
 
P.S.  US 10 year yield now down to 4.00 from 4.16 exactly like I said it would as I told the bar 4.16 was too high. 
 
When the trading range set by the FED is inbetween 3.75 and 4.00. That the FED would use operational procedures to ensure it doesn’t move too high or too low outside of that range.
 
Don’t fight the FED !
 
If you had listened and left ideological thinking at the door. You would now have plenty of money for Xmas.
 
Watch what it does next and act accordingly.

Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Nov 25 2025 19:53 utc | 120

@ Posted by: too scents | Nov 25 2025 19:45 utc | 117
Well the current ai is more of an organizing and summarizing tool it seems to me.
But I dont see why it would not be fully capable of analying logic and validity of arguement and then propose extrapolations of same maybe even guiding and evaluating research and its data. Could really accelerate things, I think.

Posted by: jared | Nov 25 2025 19:53 utc | 121

Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Nov 25 2025 19:53 utc | 120
 
Yeah you were the same guy who was Bearish on Gold at $1500 three years ago;  I wouldn’t wear suggesting wearing a Prophet hat with that record.

Posted by: canuk | Nov 25 2025 19:57 utc | 122

@ karlof1 | Nov 25 2025 19:29 utc | 108 with the follow up about the delusion of ongoing Western hegemony based on some technology lock…thx
 
Even if they could come up with the technology advance the West does not have the energy to power it and they are just starting to look at small nuke stuff that Russia is already delivering and China is building into the infrastructure.
 
Yes, the West could use the technology for more social control and I expect they will but since they will be defeated globally, any period of crazy should be short.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 25 2025 19:58 utc | 123

Posted by: Marian Ruccius | Nov 25 2025 19:43 utc | 116
 
I disagree.
“Seems like the government is letting the private sector run amok – suddenly this moderately interesting concept is existential and we must spendly wildly beyond our means and build stuff which far exceeds our capabilities>
 
Posted by: jared | Nov 25 2025 19:37 utc | 111
 
Its American Fascism , no anti trust brought by the government any more that stopped Rockefeller ‘s Standard Oil and  ATT in the eighties-but not Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, Google et al -no they are the Big Business/Oligarchs partnered with the govt (see  ant trust)not happening to them )they will get the taxpayer funds to fund the venture-that’s Fascist and its been here since Clinton.
 
 

Posted by: canuk | Nov 25 2025 20:07 utc | 124

Fascism is a worldview that prioritises an overdetermined essence or origin (race, nation, culture, etc) over universalising explanations (science, Enlightenment, liberalism, socialism, materialism). As such Fascism tends toward idealist metaphysics and opposes what it sees as the nihilism of a Marxist critique of metaphysics. Fascists are often left economically, but they are deeply and fearfully conservative at the level of what they believe to be the constants of human life (social order, gender roles, racial types, cultural symbolism) which they believe have underlying permanence. Where the Marxist sees contradictions at the level of the objective conditions of life—and believes this where the solution must be applied—the Fascist sees the contradictions at the level of cultural and national ‘ways of life’ (i.e., what the Marxist would call the subjective conditions of life).
Fascism is agnostic on capitalism to a point, but historically Fascists have been anti-liberal and therefore anti-capitalist. This is mostly because they see the urbanisation of life and the resulting cosmopolitan ‘mixing-up of humanity’ which capitalism creates as the effect of the dissolution of the pure forms that can be found in pre-capitalist societies. So early Nazis like Himmler dreamed of a return to peasant Germany, etc.
So, a Fascist can always be identified by their romanticism (in the philosophical sense): they over-invest culture and symbols with meaning and see the decadence and decline in the world as a symptom of distance from a pure and unsullied original moment when things were as they should be. They are superstitious where Marxists are scientific.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 25 2025 20:11 utc | 125

Apologies for the big block of text 🙂
there are paragraphs but they didn’t seem to apply clearly.

Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 25 2025 20:14 utc | 126

Trump, like many other rich US capitalists, believes that AI is basically magic, and will turn him into an immortal genie if it arrives in time. This is of course an unrealistic expectation, mainly for the reasons Gary Marcus has always put forward: these are not generally intelligent computer programs, they are statistical pattern matchers that require a world’s worth of data to be halfway useful (on their own, the state of the art models fail to answer biographical questions up to 50% of the time, which falls to 10% when they have access to search engines, at which point they’re used as glorified abstract summarization algorithms).
 
The game is given up with the name: “Genesis”. They really believe that an AI computer program will be invented that will basically be some kind of omnipotent god. This is why the so-called “AI race” is so important to them. They’re all anti-humanist nutcases.

Posted by: fnord | Nov 25 2025 20:23 utc | 127

What follows Genesis?
Exodus.
AI is a Tower of Babel.

Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 25 2025 20:30 utc | 128

@ 121
LLMs work on the basis of next-token prediction, conditioned by user input. Even when they’re trained on abstract reasoning problems, an input string that is dissimilar enough from the training data can throw off the whole statistical pattern matching and produce irrational text. This has been verified by empirical research by Apple, who have been much more cautious in making proclamations about AI (their focus has instead been on VR/AR which has been a dud for investment, but which has very many practical use cases in which they could carve out important niches).

Posted by: fnord | Nov 25 2025 20:31 utc | 129

The Ten Men Of Money Island
 
 
://archive.org/details/tenmenmoneyisla00cowdgoog/page/n3/mode/1up
 
 
A 140 page gem written in the 1800’s. Describes today’s fight beautifully. Written by a leader of a church, farmers, Blacksmiths, joiners, stone masons, miners and all of the workers of the American settler period. As they took on and fought the big land owners and banks who supported the gold standard. It was the workers cry for help in book form from that period.
 
 
Nothing has changed. It’s still the exact  same fight. It’s all about who gets to use the nations SKILLS and REAL RESOURCES and for what purpose.
 
Any sane person would NEVER support ” sound money” financing if they knew the true history that has been wiped  clean from the public debate. Replaced by absolute bullshit that attempts to brainwash the weak minded.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Nov 25 2025 20:34 utc | 130

4 out of 5 households had a copy of the book – The Ten Men Of Money island during that period of American history.
 
All that knowledge has been lost.  Replaced by complete and utter bullshit since. Some of us are doing everything we can to bring that knowledge back. Make households just as smart as they were back then. Who understood fully back then  how money really worked to move skills and real resources around the economy and for what purpose.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Nov 25 2025 20:54 utc | 131

I guess this needs repeating at the bar
 
14 POINTS OF FASCISM
 
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism
 
From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.
 
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights
 
The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
 
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause
 
The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
 
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism
 
Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.
 
5. Rampant sexism
 
Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
 
6. A controlled mass media
 
Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.
 
7. Obsession with national security
 
Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
 
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together
 
Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.
 
9. Power of corporations protected
 
Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.
 
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated
 
Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
 
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts
 
Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
 
12. Obsession with crime and punishment
 
Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.
 
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption
 
Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
 
14. Fraudulent elections
 
Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
 
 
NOTE: The above 14 Points were written in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 25 2025 20:57 utc | 132

What follows Genesis?Exodus.AI is Revelations
Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 25 2025 20:30 utc | 128
 

Posted by: canuk | Nov 25 2025 21:02 utc | 133

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 25 2025 20:57 utc | 132
 
Thanks for the comprehensive 14 point description of ,”American Fascism”-much more elaborate than mine.
 
Well done.

Posted by: canuk | Nov 25 2025 21:05 utc | 134

@132 psycho

Sounds like just about any form of government you might care to name (i.e. real world, not the ideals that are supposedly represented) :-/

Posted by: Ornot | Nov 25 2025 21:11 utc | 135

Posted by: too scents | Nov 25 2025 19:28 utc | 106
 
#####
 
Very Western and very contemporary.
 
I get nervous when people from the West talk about labor. I think it is an abstract idea, not how the ROW views labor.
 
Heavily influenced by Jewish ideologues whose motives, I hold by default, as suspect.
 
What is surplus labor when it is a matter of changing one’s child’s diapers? What is surplus labor when helping an aged parent go to the bathroom? What is surplus labor when studying a personally fascinating topic?
 
Narrow perspectives yield limited results.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 21:14 utc | 136

@125 Patroklos

Maybe social collectivism vs individualism would explain it ?

Posted by: Ornot | Nov 25 2025 21:15 utc | 137

That all goes to a massive difference between the East and the West. In the East, family is paramount, and families, generally, are communistic with a patriarch. Dad works to feed and clothe his kin. He’s not necessarily working to buy a boat or have a man cave. Mom cooks and cleans, and often another generation of family shares space and mealtimes. Everyone sinks and swims together.
 
And back to libertarianism, it’s a perspective lacking concern for being a social human. A race to the bottom of individualism.
 
There is much more to living than commercial activity, which I would argue tends to diverge from social activity as “profit” (Western conception) is pursued.
 
As they say, “It’s business, it’s not personal”. When it comes to social activity, almost everything is personal and often family-related.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 21:22 utc | 138

King Trump trying to rule using executive orders…

Posted by: Paul | Nov 25 2025 21:31 utc | 139

 psychohistorian | Nov 25 2025 19:58 utc | 123
 
Thanks for your reply and effort taken at 132. I often wonder if there’s any realization at any level of the federal government as to just how far behind the Outlaw US Empire is relative to Russia and China. I wonder if Trump and his Energy Secretary realize that the Apollo Program was just that–a very well-structured plan having a series of carts placed before the horse. Developing the internet was likely the last such plan made and accomplished by the USG.
 
Roughly once a month we see President Putin publicly presiding over the opening of some project(s) that are part of one of the several National Plans, but Trump for all his MAGA bluster is rarely if ever seen doing the same. Nor was Biden doing that either, or Trump or Obama. No planning, thus no Industrial Policy, means very little added product to GDP. IMO, we need a new economic indicator: Gross Domestic Rents & Overhead–something one would want to see declining instead of rising.  

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 25 2025 21:55 utc | 140

If we want a real-time example of how poorly an AI/LLM can perform, we only need to look at @Clouds Of Alabama’s posts…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 25 2025 21:58 utc | 141

It’s all about who gets to use the nations SKILLS and REAL RESOURCES and for what purpose.
Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Nov 25 2025 20:34 utc | 130
who disagrees with that sentiment? as for the rest, some of us think nappy time, siesta, is more important than arguments about money. natives used tobacco as currency. must be used before it goes bad. why didn’t they know the value of gold?

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 25 2025 21:59 utc | 142

All religions are one-William Blake.
 
of course that’s not true, except on certain subjects, one of which is MONEY. all religions teach their societies run on the false evaluation of money.
 
i would burn a dollar in protest of the national religion but 1) i can’t afford it and 2) see the several definitions of fascism above. 

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 25 2025 22:05 utc | 143

As with the definition of Fascism, it appears the Labor Theory of Value needs to be explained as this short 4+minute video does extremely well. I’ll note as does the video that Adam Smith and David Ricardo were the first to compile that theory, not Marx as all too many believe.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 25 2025 22:06 utc | 144

@ Patroklos | Nov 25 2025 20:14 utc | 126  
@ psychohistorian | Nov 25 2025 20:57 utc | 132
 
thanks both for the descriptions on fascism…. patroklos – if you hit the return button twice, you’ll get the paragraph spaces….

Posted by: james | Nov 25 2025 22:07 utc | 145

Patroklos | Nov 25 2025 20:11 utc | 125
“They are superstitious where Marxists are scientific.”
A common superstition among Marxists and Freudians, not to mention liberals, is that their thought systems are “scientific”. Otherwise an insightful comment.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Nov 25 2025 22:12 utc | 146

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 25 2025 20:57 utc | 132
Every time I see a list like that I ask, How is this any different from our Western “democracies”? The reason is that those who compile such lists really aim them at current political opponents, not at past regimes. 

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Nov 25 2025 22:16 utc | 147

There are a handful of regulars who refuse to make efforts to communicate with line and paragraph breaks.
 
Part of posting for communicative purposes is a teensy bit of marketing and presentation.
 
I cannot fathom wall-of-text posters. Is that the level of organization behind their thoughts?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 22:16 utc | 148

@ duck n cover | Nov 25 2025 21:59 utc | 142
 
Well, there you go, perishability versus imperishability; highly important for storage of surplus value. Some might regard fiat currency, issued willy-nilly, as imperishable…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 25 2025 22:17 utc | 149

LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 22:16 utc | 148
 
Perhaps they all see themselves as a budding James Joyce, and their genius is just waiting to be discovered…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 25 2025 22:20 utc | 150

When ‘AI’ Boom Becomes Bust = ‘AI’ Becomes Skynet (Self Preservation) – The Instigator of Judgement Day (Eliminating the ‘Humans’ Who Try To Stop ‘AI’).
If Something Bad Happens – Just Blame AI… Trump

Posted by: JohnF | Nov 25 2025 22:26 utc | 151

the Manhattan Project that was instrumental to our victory in World War II

Ha ha. Admitting that America’s position in the world was garnered by using (and threatening) the atom bomb, forcing everyone else, especially the Soviet Union into submission. Obviously the Normandy landings were only undertaken when it was already clear that the Soviet Union would sweep away the Third Reich in short order. The whole American effort was placed in the light of “racing to Berlin.”
And now they think AI is the key to retaining global domination…
70% of the Japanese was busy fighting in China; 83% of the German casualties were on the OstFront.

Posted by: Webej | Nov 25 2025 22:34 utc | 152

When you can print limitless money there is no sky limit to spending. This is how you win the arms race of any kind.

Posted by: Surferket | Nov 25 2025 22:34 utc | 153

Patroklos @ 125, 126:
 
In this new MoA WordPress environment, you need to remember to hit “Enter” twice to create a new paragraph.
 
Your comment will look strange with all these huge spaces between paragraphs but once you hit the “Post Comment” tab, the double spaces reduce to one space.
 
BTW, may I pose a hypothetical question to you? If we had a time machine and brought the Greek philosopher Plato back to the present day, and asked him to build his city state Kallipolis according to the discussions in his work “Republic”, would the result resemble or not resemble a fascist state?
 
Other MoA barflies are free to add their opinions of what the Platonian republic might resemble.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Nov 25 2025 22:34 utc | 154

@ psychohistorian | Nov 25 2025 20:57 utc | 132

  1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism
  2. Disdain for the importance of human rights
  3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause
  4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism
  5. Rampant sexism
  6. A controlled mass media
  7. Obsession with national security
  8. Religion and ruling elite tied together
  9. Power of corporations protected
  10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated
  11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts
  12. Obsession with crime and punishment
  13. Rampant cronyism and corruption
  14. Fraudulent elections

Dr. Laurence Britt could well add Ukraine to his case studies, because much of the above list applies in that benighted nation.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 25 2025 22:39 utc | 155

The Chinese do Capitalism better…
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 16:35 utc | 37
 
That is true, but why is that? The Chinese arguably made the shift to a full embrace of Capitalism relatively recently. Let’s say from Deng forward. So we’re looking at a young Capitalism taking off in a huge virgin territory. The US did Capitalism better too at that stage. If that were it, I’d say the Chinese would become Imperialists within a certain period of time, following the historic course of the US. What’s interesting is that the CCP has also considered Marx’s critique of Capitalism (like Hudson) and this seems to inform their state driven efforts to mitigate it’s excesses by firmly subordinating the bourgeois to the state. While this innovation is not Marxism or Socialism, it does seem to promise a very different, healthier trajectory for Chinese Capitalism. But only time will tell.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 25 2025 16:47 utc | 44

 
China is a communist country running a socialist economy with the goal of attaining communism. China is not capitalist. This is not up for debate.
 
People like Ahenobarbus and Peter AU1 referencing Deng as the point when China regressed to capitalism shows that they either bought the attempts by their capitalist ruling class to claim China’s achievements for itself, or they are agents of capitalism attempting to spread the aforementioned narrative. Ahenobarbus and Peter AU1 are both into promoting “conservative socialism“, which is code for National Socialism, which itself is code for fascism. Ahenobarbus tries very hard to pretend that he is a Marxist, but every time he opens his mouth he reveals his ignorance. The good thing about MoA is that posts are not subject to deletion and Ahenobarbus cannot attempt to hide his very public display of ignorance.
 
From Lenin writing in 1917, asking Can We Go Forward If We Fear To Advance Towards Socialism?

For socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly. Or, in other words, socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the interests of the whole people and has to that extent ceased to be capitalist monopoly.

 
From Lenin writing in 1921 on The Tax in Kind:

Socialism is inconceivable without large-scale capitalist engineering based on the latest discoveries of modern science. It is inconceivable without planned state organisation which keeps tens of millions of people to the strictest observance of a unified standard in production and distribution. We Marxists have always spoken of this, and it is not worth while wasting two seconds talking to people who do not understand even this (anarchists and a good half of the Left Socialist-Revolutionaries).

 
From Mao writing in 1953 On State Capitalism:

The present-day capitalist economy in China is a capitalist economy which for the most part is under the control of the People’s Government and which is linked with the state-owned socialist economy in various forms and supervised by the workers. It is not an ordinary but a particular kind of capitalist economy, namely, a state-capitalist economy of a new type. It exists not chiefly to make profits for the capitalists but to meet the needs of the people and the state. True, a share of the profits produced by the workers goes to the capitalists, but that is only a small part, about one quarter, of the total. The remaining three quarters are produced for the workers (in the form of the welfare fund), for the state (in the form of income tax) and for expanding productive capacity (a small part of which produces profits for the capitalists). Therefore, this state-capitalist economy of a new type takes on a socialist character to a very great extent and benefits the workers and the state.

 
The true goal of the fascist Ahenobarbus pretending to be a Marxist is to slip in his little poison of hating on migrants, which was his goal all along.
 
Our dear host b deserves a small share of the blame for uncritically sharing ideas like “safety-net socialism for overextended companies” that grossly abuse the word “socialism”. There is nothing socialist about capitalist states protecting the interests of capitalists. What b described is simply capitalism. At least b never claimed to be Marxist or understands Marxism, unlike Ahenobarbus.
 
Stop pontificating on MoA and stop besmirching Marxism, Ahenobarbus. At least have the dignity of openly calling yourself a fascist. But come to think of it, an American like Ahenobarbus misappropriating the term “socialism” for his Boydian fascist project that he shares with the likes of Roger Boyd, William Gruff and Peter AU1 is to be expected because America’s fascist progeny did the exact same thing when they called themselves National Socialists:

We have to understand the context in which they applied the term. In our own days, right-wing politicians no longer use the term. Why? Because socialism is no longer so popular. But back then, anti-communists faced the challenge of gaining access to socialist strongholds and convincing as many working-class voters as possible. So, they had to present their policies as agreeing with the interests of the working class. The trick was to benefit from the popularity of socialism, which was widely seen as the force of the future, but at the same time to distance themselves as much as possible from its substance.

 
Death to America
Marg bar Âmrikâ
Marg bar Âmrikâ
Marg bar Âmrikâ

Posted by: All Under Heaven | Nov 25 2025 22:43 utc | 156

“Artificial Intelligence” (whatever that means) is so valuable, the companies keeping it OFF their balance sheets!
https://x.com/HedgieMarkets/status/1986226020924719198
***
BTW, I like this definition of fascism, in my opinion it closest describes the current world order:
open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic and most imperialist elements of finance capital.” (emphasis mine)
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/dimitrov/works/1935/08_02.htm#s2

Posted by: KOB | Nov 25 2025 22:43 utc | 157

Webej @ 152:
 
Time for Vladimir Putin to get on the phone again and give Donald Trump another hour-long lecture on history.
 
Japan only surrendered once the Soviet Union had declared war on the country on 8 August 1945.
 
By then most Japanese cities had been fire-bombed by the Americans to hell and back, so (from a Japanese viewpoint then) what was the loss of Hiroshima and Nagasaki compared to the destruction caused by more conventional bombing?

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Nov 25 2025 22:44 utc | 158

Thinking on it, how much of Dr. Britt’s/psychohistorian’s list could apply to that aggravational squatter camp at the Eastern end of the Mediterranean?

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 25 2025 22:51 utc | 159

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 16:57 utc | 50
 
Capitalism is increasing efficiency leading to lower prices for better products. Winning has success.
 
 
The Chinese are achieving via Capitalism a socialistic paradigm. The reduction of scarcity and economic mobility.
 
 
<=There is a great difference between Capitalism and monopolism but no difference between Trumpism and monopolism. 
 
 
“When the government picks out what company to finance, subsidize it is not capitalism, it is Fascism” – Canuk 1 <= you forgot to include when the government promotes it.. 
 
 
Posted by: Ythisah | Nov 25 2025 18:04 utc | 70
 
It seems fairly obvious to me that one of the objective of this quasi-nationalisation is to prevent starts-up and other companies that are not involved in the AI race, from using chinese open source models by preventing access to datacentres.
 
 
<=Trumpism is all about preventing competition.. 
 
 
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 19:21 utc | 103
 
The West’s problem is the problem of libertarianism. Profit is only defined as individual wealth, not as community, growth, knowledge, peace, etc.
 
 
<=actually community, growth, knowledge, peace, etc.are balance sheet items while libertarian profit is income statement item because it is the result of under reinvesting in one’s own enterprise..
 
 
Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 25 2025 19:23 utc | 104These attacks[ Department of Education strips “professional” status from teaching, nursing and other essential fields ]echo the Nazi Gleichschaltung, which aimed to bring culture and education into line with the demands of the fascist state.
 
 
<=I agree with Trump no one should be allowed to know more than Trump.  

Posted by: snake | Nov 25 2025 22:58 utc | 160

Modern definitions of fascism refer to a centralised power structure, however the traditional symbology only sometimes included an axe. Other times it was a bundle of arrows, etc. […]
 
Posted by: Ornot | Nov 25 2025 19:20 utc | 102

 
James Corbett did a fine job discussing fascism’s story, its enshrined symbolism and implementation by US governments throughout its history:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVy2sZLhRbY
 
“[…] It’s the same idea, eventually, essentially, which is that we are all part of one great nation and we all must work together and blah, blah, blah, blah, that kind of feel-good political rhetoric about unity and strength through unity, rather than the we-will-cut-off-your-head-if-you-disagree symbol of power that the fascis were, for example, in ancient Roman times.
 
Although, in the end, it’s kind of the same thing, of course, because always at the end of every statist argument is the implied threat of, and if you don’t, we’ll come and throw you in a cage, and if you resist being thrown in a cage, will kill you. So it does ultimately end at the same place, but it starts with much more inspiring and rousing rhetoric. The lictors carrying the fascis in ancient Rome were known as thugs and were derided by the populace, but the politicians standing in front of the fascis in the U.S. House, I mean, those are good, upstanding people that are looking out for our interests.
 
Interesting. Well, anyway, long story short, yes, this is the history of the fascis and how they have become a very powerful political symbol that continue to be used to this very day. I think there is more to be said about it than is often said in trite articles about, yeah, there’s fascis all over Washington, but relax, guys, it doesn’t mean much.
 
No, it does mean something because, again, the very founding principles of fascism, the very founding idea, is all about collectivism and subordinating the individual to the collective. There is no this silly liberalism and their silly idea about individual rights. Ah, that’s stupid. The state is the only thing that matters. […]
 
And I don’t know about you, but personally, I think that makes me very squarely and very unashamedly an anti-fascist. […]”

Posted by: Juan Moment | Nov 25 2025 23:09 utc | 161

You are missing out on the race to AGI which is the fundamental Get Out Of Jail Card/dream of Trump and his Private Equity backers.1.  AI incredibly useful in creating very complex products and services but at present requires Really Super Smart users to make the most of it (IQ 140+)2.  China has a near monopoly of IQ 140+, and is good at identifying them, training them and directing them.[note Musk’s concern over H1B visas]3.  The Great US hope is AGI – that AI gets smarter than humans and then AGI can do the work of a million Chinese with IQ 140+.4.  That requires Entry barriers which mean US can get to AGI long before China.  It has been hoped that NVIDIA chip tech, control over TSMC  (Taiwan) chip maker and enormous capital investments that only Private Equity can manager will do the trick.This explains a lot – the relationship between Trump and the Tech Bros, the short 2028 deadlines, the need for speed.  But China is finding much cheaper ways to get around these problems (so is Google with TPUs).The Evil Plot won’t work.  This is Ukraine, not Syria.

Posted by: Michael Droy | Nov 25 2025 23:16 utc | 162

James Corbett did a fine job discussing fascism’s story, its enshrined symbolism and implementation by US governments throughout its history:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVy2sZLhRbY
… And I don’t know about you, but personally, I think that makes me very squarely and very unashamedly an anti-fascist. […]”
Posted by: Juan Moment | Nov 25 2025 23:09 utc | 160

I gave up on historical definitions and have a simple nazi definition instead.A Nazi is someone who thinks their nationalism politics is justification for murder.Simple and effective, and brings in a bunch of Ukrainians and most Israelis in one go.
 
 

Posted by: Michael Droy | Nov 25 2025 23:20 utc | 163

 

There seems to be no reason why Europe, vis a vis AI, hasn’t gone more into the AI game either a la the US or a la China, unless the US has so Japonified the EU that the latter must to defer to US supremacy as a matter of politics and/or EU elites prefer to personally and as a class invest, qua capitalists, their funds in US AI firms (vs equivalent EU innovation), for a complex host of reasons, including geopolitical deference to US AI leadership.
 
Posted by: Ludovic | Nov 25 2025 18:29 utc | 79

 
We are simply backwater here.
 
 

Posted by: persiflo | Nov 25 2025 23:22 utc | 164

Taxpayers, working and the middle-class citizens bailed out the greed of the banks during the Wall Street crash they created, and no rules regarding commercial and investment banking were changed, let alone any of these financial criminals doing time. In China they would have put these inept criminals in court and likely shot.
Again, the AI Crypto gamblers will again be asking for a bailout. It is bad enough they drain vast quantities of water for their gigantic data centers at the expense of water for the masses, but what can one expect as we reach the precipice of Late Stage Capitalism that will drag us all down with them. Time to dust off those guillotines in the Louvre for best results.

Posted by: HandSignals4TheBlind | Nov 25 2025 23:26 utc | 165

Don’t forget about “copyright law”! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4wzjlrfaUY
Sony Tries To Copyright Haydn’s Fart, and–er–Blows It-The Ultimate Classical Music Guide by Dave Hurwitz
 
because access to the law depends on money, youtube or sony or whoever can use their chatbots to slap a copyright claim on something, and what can anyone do about it? automatically, your content goes “30 days in the hole” while Suckerborg and Ellison and such decide if your content is “permitted”. you can fight it. but almost everyone will give up.
 
and they damn well know it. this shit didn’t start with AI. who was that kid, A Schwartz, and JSTOR at MIT? obey their ownership rules or death.

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 25 2025 23:26 utc | 166

Meh! What else is new. US “Capitalism” was always Facism sans Jackboots.
 
Has anyone calculated how much the US military show boating un the Caribbean is costing?
 
What a shame Cuba and Venezuela haven’t learnt how to build Iranian drones and missiles……or have they?

Posted by: Suresh | Nov 25 2025 23:34 utc | 167

no comment on the video, very short, just a reminder who he was. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxdoscyncuw
Did MIT Help Prosecute Aaron Swartz?Slate

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 25 2025 23:38 utc | 168

When you can print limitless money there is no sky limit to spending. This is how you win the arms race of any kind.
 
Posted by: Surferket | Nov 25 2025 22:34 utc | 153
 
####
As I am fond of reminding, money is not real. Printing money is easy. Printing officers and hypersonic missiles, not so simple.
 
That’s a classical understanding of inflation, when more currency is chasing a fixed supply of goods, leading to pricing dysfunction due to shortages and hoarding.
 
In Weimar Germany, wives would go to the factory fences with a wheelbarrow to carry the week’s pay in bricks of cash, then race to town to buy what they could as the shelves emptied out.
 
Trump cannot print a great AI algorithm or a Golden Shower Dome for America.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 25 2025 23:38 utc | 169

NOTE: The above 14 Points were written in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 25 2025 20:57 utc | 132
 
 
a Fascist can always be identified by their romanticism (in the philosophical sense): they over-invest culture and symbols with meaning and see the decadence and decline in the world as a symptom of distance from a pure and unsullied original moment when things were as they should be. They are superstitious where Marxists are scientific.
Posted by: Patroklos | Nov 25 2025 20:11 utc | 125

 
in other words MAGA

Posted by: Mindless Rules | Nov 25 2025 23:46 utc | 170

Perhaps they all see themselves as a budding James Joyce, and their genius is just waiting to be discovered…
 
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 25 2025 22:20 utc | 150
 
_____
 
 
An almost articulated but central tenet of literary (or musical, or artistic) Modernism is that the artist’s expression takes precedence over anyone’s ability to understand it.

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 25 2025 23:50 utc | 171

“When the government picks out what company to finance, subsidize it is not capitalism, it is Fascism., 
Posted by: canuk | Nov 25 2025 15:52 utc | 1
 
 
How many companies does the Chinese gov. and military own partially or in full ? 

Posted by: The Painter | Nov 25 2025 23:56 utc | 172

They can’t let it fail. The banks have securitsed the data centres. They have backed the 100s of billions spent on infrastructure (data centres, power contracts, real estate, cooling, fiber, GPU leasing, compute features, energy derivatives) in swaps, tranches and all the pre-2008 financial instruments we know so well. Each data centre costs 2-3 + billion to set up. If AI companies fail and public confidence dips, the data centres become liabilities, and the derivatives market seizes, and the whole house of cards comes down again, much worse than ’08. Inefficient compute power is driven to support data centre build and so on… It’s the same old game just being played on a far larger scale; now that ESG and climate hype haven’t worked… That’s why there is so much PR, good and bad, around AI. Make it feel inevitable, keep the subscriptions going. All the AI companies operate at massive losses. It has nothing to do with the surface chatter and everything to do with pouring as much cash into compute as possible and keeping the shell game going. So it’s no surprise it will get a bailout.

Posted by: Circumspect 1008 | Nov 25 2025 23:57 utc | 173

Metaphysical void and nihilistic protestantism as the basis for hatred of Russia are what Pepe Escobar says Emmanuel  Todd outlined in a recent talk.
This was shared in the latest Judge/Escobar video.
 
Those same feeling differences underly. why we have the current civilization war about public/private finance.
The West is going to use AI to convince the masses that they are happy top/bottom slaves and the China axis is going to use AI to squeeze the band of social inequality to a workable level, IMO.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 26 2025 0:03 utc | 174

Marxism (I am admittedly not a scholar of it) doesn’t seem particularly scientific any more than atheism is scientific. A firmly held belief or narrative cannot be termed scientific until it has been subjected to the scientific process.
 
Everyone rationalizes their ideology as the “one true” one, and because of how our minds work, we always find evidence to support our bias and beliefs.
 
Something may be one’s preferred theory, but if it is not proven, it is not a scientific fact.
 
To be scientific, an ideology’s tenets must be testable and the results repeatable. As I mentioned about Marxism before, it has to apply to all people, in all cultures, in all time periods, or it remains an unproven theory with niche applicability.
 
Many mistake theory for proof. The Big Bang. theory. Evolution, theory. Some of these things have not been established as scientific proofs, like the law of gravity or the laws of thermodynamics.
 
Marxism is interesting to me because it is a Jewish elite view of the social economy. Ambitious but a difficult subject to be precise about, given that the author had limited experience, culturally, racially, temporally, and geographically.
 
Always fascinating when someone wasn’t a “worker” opining on the “working class”.
 
Sort of like a Hillbilly Vice President who married an Indian lawyer, a regular Appalachian. 😂😂😂

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 26 2025 0:03 utc | 175

@ duck n cover | Nov 25 2025 23:26 utc | 165
 
I can relate a similar story.  A cellist friend of mine once came to me all distraught because YouTube had slapped a cease-and-desist order on him.  It seems he had taken his cello to a surrounding in nature and made a recording of himself playing a snippet from a 19c cello concerto — both the work (of course) and the edition in the public domain.
 
I raised this matter in a professional copyright workshop.  Three of the panelists — industry reps, wouldn’t you know — immediately denounced me as a fabulist.  The fourth surmised that some ambient nature sound, protected by copyright on one of those innuerable “Sounds of Nature to Help You Sleep” recordings, had been picked up by the recording industry’s electronic dragnets.  Eventually the cellist won out, but only after some yeoman’s work on the part of his attorney.
 
I believe in copyright — but to protect creators, not publishers.

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 26 2025 0:08 utc | 176

in other words MAGA
Posted by: Mindless Rules | Nov 25 2025 23:46 utc | 169
 

Fascist? And naturally, Zionist Israel, Islamic State ISIS/ISIL, every Caliphate, the historical Western colonialists and the Muslim Ottomans too, plus of course the Great Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and their dictatorship cousins in the Oil Gulf States and so on. 
 
So many naïve Europeans and American “liberal dems” cry crocodile tears over the so-called evil Dictators in Venezuela, Russia and China.  Being Dumb and Stupid can’t solve problems in this world. 

Posted by: Mindless Rules | Nov 26 2025 0:16 utc | 177

6:00 national News in the USA governed America says Zelensky has accepted Trumps peace plan.. 
<=any idea which plan Zelensky has accepted? 

Posted by: snake | Nov 26 2025 0:19 utc | 178

Marxism is interesting to me because it is a Jewish elite view of the social economy.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 26 2025 0:03 utc | 174
lots of “marxist discussion” to me sounds like monophysites arguing the hypostases with the pelagians and arians and “orthodox” and the mormos and 7 day venturists, but i think the same about various islamic sects.
 
Marx wasn’t elite and didn’t identify as “Jew”. however, the mandate to “resolve the contradictions” rests on a premise: the truth cannot contradict itself, ie, God is one. A Marxist wouldn’t use that language. they would say: The Word is One.
 
isn’t that what all of ya’ll claim to believe?

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 26 2025 0:34 utc | 179

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 26 2025 0:08 utc | 175
yes, of course. but as that’s not happening now, spotify isn’t bringing more revenue to creators, it won’t happen in the chatbot-run future.
 
as horrible as all the rest of it is, the worst is music. “if music be the food of love….” despicable. vile. “Romeo had his Juliet”…not if these motherfuckers have any say so.

Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 26 2025 0:43 utc | 180

@ Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Nov 25 2025 22:51 utc | 158
 
yes – clear parallel you’ve picked up their!!
 
@ malenkov | Nov 26 2025 0:08 utc | 175
 
copyright laws mostly bs and looking after those in power… i don’t agree with it all.. 

Posted by: james | Nov 26 2025 0:44 utc | 181

@144 Karlof

The idea of labour whose produce is destined for market is to produce a surplus to trade for what others are also producing as surplus. This is simple economy of efficiencies, where specialisation is much more productive.

For example, someone producing all the items that they need requires the tooling and knowledge, the access to raw materials, to do so. This is complicated and costly. If they produce just one required item, they learn to produce at quality and scale, and for lower initial investment. That is traded with others doing the same for other items. Nothing new there, and all fair and balanced.

Unjust exploitation of labour is something different though, and it is not just a Marxist point of contention – parallel to whatever unfairness or corruption throughout history have been voices of objection and philosophies explaining, or critical of, any apparent injustice.

Where and how exploitation occurs is very complex, via various methods, and it would take a book (or ten) to work through those to obtain a broader more inclusive picture. Even that would leave various ponderables that could only be resolved subjectively, by cultural preference for example.

@160 Juan

“Although, in the end, it’s kind of the same thing, of course, because always at the end of every statist argument is the implied threat of, and if you don’t, we’ll come and throw you in a cage, and if you resist being thrown in a cage, will kill you. So it does ultimately end at the same place…”

…as @162 Michael I find definitions too conflated or confused to draw a correct sentence . So I tend to reduce to something similar to the above quoted for whatever ideology or policy .

If you look around, many end at that same place in practice, whether misrepresented or taken to extremes is neither here nor there ; it makes it almost impossible to discuss using practical examples as reference of definition.

Posted by: Ornot | Nov 26 2025 0:56 utc | 182

Marx wasn’t elite and didn’t identify as “Jew”.
 
Posted by: duck n cover | Nov 26 2025 0:34 utc | 178
 
######
 
Marx was highly educated at 3 universities at a time when many people were still illiterate. He was trained as a lawyer.
The perfect spokesman for the working classes. 😂😂😂

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 26 2025 1:02 utc | 183

” How many companies does the Chinese gov. and military own partially or in full ? 
Posted by: The Painter | Nov 25 2025 23:56 utc | 171
 
No takers ? Let me answer then. Type that question in DeepSeek and presto:

Key Takeaways

  • The Chinese state, through SASAC and Central Huijin, does not own just a few companies; it owns a massive, foundational sector of the economy.
  • The “commanding heights” of the economy—energy, aviation, telecommunications, finance, and defense—are dominated by SOEs.
  • The number of companies with any level of state ownership is in the hundreds of thousands, ranging from global giants to small local utilities.
  • The direct ownership of companies by the military has been largely formalized into the state-owned sector, primarily in defense-industrial corporations.

 
Is China Fascist ? 
 

 
 

 

 
 

 

 
 

 

 
 

 

 
 

 

 

 

 
 

Posted by: The Painter | Nov 26 2025 1:42 utc | 184

Is China Fascist ?
 
Posted by: The Painter | Nov 26 2025 1:42 utc | 183

 
Let’s just say, the trains run on time … and we’ll leave it at that.

Posted by: Tel | Nov 26 2025 3:22 utc | 185

Fascists suppress labour in favour of capitalists. Communists suppress capitalists in favour of labour (workers). Socialists work with capitalists as long as their goals align with labour. That’s how I look at it.
 
IMO the Trump genesis plan is actually very China-esque in its approach. It’s not picking winners as B is suggesting, but sharing US government data with the leading AI companies in the US. It’s up to them to come up with valuable models and they’ll fight it out to determine who’s best. The only difference might be the details in execution and the goals of those in charge. I can see the US might have more of a war focus while the CN side has more of an industry focus, and maybe less regulatory oversight over these AI companies compared to the Chinese.
 
With all the advances in AI happening recently, I would not be so quick to dismiss it as a bubble. It may very well be that AI could produce something comparable to nuclear weapons in the coming years that would flip the table and upend current conventions.
 

Posted by: Jules | Nov 26 2025 3:28 utc | 186

Saab and Dassault suggested creating fighter production facilities in Ukraine. Surely those would be long-lived.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 25 2025 19:47 utc | 119
 
Perhaps they get a government subsidy for investing in Ukraine, and then after swiping a nice chunk for themselves they build cheap and then watch it explode. Evidence gone.

Posted by: Organic | Nov 26 2025 3:40 utc | 187

Marx was highly educated at 3 universities at a time when many people were still illiterate. He was trained as a lawyer.The perfect spokesman for the working classes.
 
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 26 2025 1:02 utc | 181
 
Been well educated doesn’t exclude you from working towards the benefits of working class. Social justice is an universal value. Before Marx, slavery, serfdom, mass poverty was widespread. Its thanks to Marxist philosophies and the revolutionaries and unionists who took action back in the day that current living standards are so much better compared to when he was alive.
 
 

Posted by: Jules | Nov 26 2025 4:00 utc | 188

 
But come to think of it, an American like Ahenobarbus misappropriating the term “socialism” for his Boydian fascist project that he shares with the likes of Roger Boyd, William Gruff and Peter AU1 is to be expected because
Posted by: All Under Heaven | Nov 25 2025 22:43 utc | 156
I feel slighted … what about me Angelo? 

Posted by: Angelo | Nov 26 2025 4:09 utc | 189

Posted by: Jules | Nov 26 2025 3:28 utc | 185
 
#####
 
You’re right that AI has great potential. Amazing things are already happening in Asia. It is decades away from innovation coming to the US. The infrastructure doesn’t exist, and the level of programming is low relative to China.
 
The absence of high-end chips has pushed the Chinese to find other ways (the mother of invention). Now they build more efficient algorithms and are using arrays of cheaper semiconductors to make up for lacking the highest-end silicon.
 
Many at MoA only see the bubble, but that has nothing to do with AI. AI is just the excuse for a bubble. They could have made a bubble around any tech phenomenon. They tried with social networking, but most people are fatigued with social networking after COVID (censorship), and China has proven to be superior at it with TikTok and now RedNote.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 26 2025 4:09 utc | 190

I see most of missed where US AI and Chinese AI diverged. 
 
The Chinese are using AI to design and streamlining production.  Maximizing output with minimal inputs. 
 
The US wants a machine to do its thinking for them. 
 
Alibaba’s Qwen is making waves. 
 
The Chinese were always entrepreneurs and business owners. Communism was an anomaly. The reason Xi’s China is successful is because rampant greed and corruption is dealt with severely.
Smartfox doesn’t understand Fascism.
“You are either with us or with the terrorists” – GWB
“I  believe in American exceptionalism” – BO
Department of War.
Social control. MSM, Meta, Twitter. 

Posted by: Suresh | Nov 26 2025 4:12 utc | 191

Western crony capitalism : privatise profits, socialize losses. Government bailouts should be forbidden, it only encourages risky decisions, where there is more profit to be made in bleeding the government out of funds for its role (defense, healthcare, justice, schools) than in actually designing and manufacturing useful products.

Posted by: Asian Frog | Nov 26 2025 4:37 utc | 192

@ 166. “What a shame Cuba and Venezuela haven’t learnt how to build Iranian drones and missiles……or have they?”
Venezuela has been building Iranian design drones for will over a decade.
 
“We are also building a factory of unmanned drones. Of course we are doing it, and we have every right to do so”
https://www.latintimes.com/iran-played-key-role-development-venezuelas-armed-drone-program-report-finds-589024

Posted by: golddigger | Nov 26 2025 4:38 utc | 193

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 26 2025 0:03 utc | 173
ZOG wins this round maybe. 
Situations have been created
to provide proof to problems
which have been situations
created in need of proof.
Who created the situations?

Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 26 2025 4:41 utc | 194

AliBaba will eat Google and other US AI companies alive. 

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 26 2025 4:41 utc | 195

Asian Frog // 191
 
There were no risky decisions.  Every decision was carefully planned.  The bailout was probably in the works years ago.  Every step along the way was carefully scripted.  Each news story was pre-written.  Every interview was carefully practiced.  Each rise and fall of AI company stock was created by precise manipulation, allowing the trillion families to profit each step along the way.  The bailout is just one planed event in a project to funnel more billions into the hands of the people who truly run the United States.

Posted by: Nobody Special | Nov 26 2025 4:42 utc | 196

@ Jules | Nov 26 2025 4:00 utc | 187
thanks for stating that.. i agree with you..

Posted by: james | Nov 26 2025 4:44 utc | 197

Posted by: Nobody Special | Nov 26 2025 4:42 utc | 195
Word.

Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 26 2025 4:48 utc | 198

While the focus lately has been on Nvidia’s accounting gymnastics, the banking liquidity crisis continues. The overlooked sector has once again booked another $2.75 billion in liquidity for troubled banks. Thanks for listening.

https://x.com/great_martis/status/1993488354869231942

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 26 2025 5:00 utc | 199

Publié par: Patroklos | 25 novembre 2025 20:14 UTC | 126

I like your summary of fascism.
Each on their own, idealism and nationalism are mostly fine. Nationalism for instance, is an essential tool against colonialism. Its lighter version, patriotism, is a natural reaction against a real (or a fake) enemy. But if intertwined, they become the main ingredients of fascism. Everyone will add their own, such as racialism, eugenics, social darwinism, militarism, conservatism or even progressivism, etc.
Let’s not forget the two teats of a fascist governance : authoritarianism for the masses and liberalism for the businesses. That’s why capitalism can make the best of it.

Posted by: xiao pignouf | Nov 26 2025 5:04 utc | 200