Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 4, 2025
Dick ‘Darth Vader’ Cheney Is Dead

I am not in the mood to write about the death of former U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney. Alan has caught the gist of what needs to be said of it.

Alan MacLeod @AlanRMacLeod – 12:20 utc · Nov 4, 2025

The only thing sad about Dick Cheney’s death is that it did not happen inside an Iraqi prison.

Over the years there have been a few MoA post on Cheney:

The one written by Antifa is probably the best of them. The last one is also of current interest.

Comments

As the 27th Acting President of ANTIFA Canada I approve this message:
 
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2008/06/cheney-and-frie.html
 
Fascism is the external enemy. 
 
Please leave a message at the virtual sound of the tone. If I don’t get back to you contact the 28th guy.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Nov 5 2025 1:33 utc | 101

Tannenhouser | Nov 4 2025 21:56 utc | 63
 
Yes! One aspect of my ongoing work is to connect the ancien regime with today’s power structure. Arno Mayer was quite correct to out them almost 60 years ago as being the driving force behind WW1. They were the landed aristocracy, the very Class that waged the Reaction against the reformist “Classic” political economists of the latter 19th Century and gave us today’s Neoliberalism, which when looked at closely is a form of feudalism since it promotes a 100% Rentier Economy.   

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 5 2025 1:45 utc | 102

I recall half choking on some coffee once, when Cheney said with a completely straight face in an interview “…you know, America is not a warlike nation”

Posted by: yarpos | Nov 5 2025 1:46 utc | 103

Dick Cheney is Not Dead.
 
https://x.com/samhusseini/status/1985743846601318719
 
“He lies in every lie and crime the US Empire commits.
Every deceit toward war, every bit of illegal surveillance.
Every move of media manipulation.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Nov 5 2025 1:57 utc | 104

Dick Cheney brings to mind the following characters:
Golem
Potter from “It’s a Wonderful Life”
Dracula
Madeline Albright
Jimmy Swaggert
Ben Shapiro
and last but not least, America’s “Judas”
I remember during 9/11 he ordered the fighter jets to “stand down” and not defend the country. Truly a traitor, and a despicable individual.
 
 

Posted by: Norsk Borscht | Nov 5 2025 2:51 utc | 105

I’m surprised Trump is not blaming ANTIFA for Cheney’s death. 

Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Nov 5 2025 5:19 utc | 106

Yet another corpse that desecrates its own grave.
 

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 5 2025 7:32 utc | 107

A deceitful warmonger is permitted to die a natural death without facing any punishment whatsoever.

Such things stir my anger and distrust towards this world.

Posted by: Nokaz | Nov 5 2025 8:08 utc | 108

 
A deceitful warmonger is permitted to die a natural death without facing any punishment whatsoever.
Such things stir my anger and distrust towards this world.
Posted by: Nokaz | Nov 5 2025 8:08 utc | 108
 
For a damned good reason. Most of us on any “side” of the ongoing (mostly bullshit left-right, but really up-down debate) share your feelings. Fuck Dick Cheney. But Trump ain’t much better. Tho don’t go sayin’ that ‘roun here lest ya be ‘kused of TDS. By alleged leftists – or – those who claim to represent the poor and workin’ classes, Massa. 

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 5 2025 8:14 utc | 109

Who did Cheney answer to?  Who gave Cheney his instructions?

Posted by: tucenz | Nov 5 2025 8:53 utc | 110

Who did Cheney answer to?  Who gave Cheney his instructions?
Posted by: tucenz | Nov 5 2025 8:53 utc | 110
 
The Anglo-American oligarchy. Or Satan. Take your pick.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 5 2025 9:02 utc | 111

A bit unfair to equate Cheney with Darth Vader. At least the latter would fight his own battles and find some redemption in the end. People like Cheney are irredeemable, especially as this scumbag died without ever expressing remorse for his boundless crimes.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 5 2025 9:06 utc | 112

i wonder when was the last time dick checked his stock options.
checked is haliburton,genie energy,blackrock blackstone vanguard shares.
checked his monsanto and his bayer his boeing and his oracle his palintir and his google.
general dynamics lockheed martin northrup grunman.
counted checked recount the countless riches 
counting while coughing up your guts in bed.
coughing up the soul if one ever existed in this thing.
 
millions died because of his conspiracy.
what test what are we meant to learn from such zio oded yinon monster.
the most evil masonic  live long in  splendour
while  genocide theft plunder rape and  localized murder are one of many protocols
 
 
on the subject of his death we require proofs for all we know he is living in a rothschild mansion 
having eyes wide shut parties with jacob and evelyne kissinger and jimmy saville
 

Posted by: normal wisdom | Nov 5 2025 9:08 utc | 113

Who did Cheney answer to?  Who gave Cheney his instructions?Posted by: tucenz | Nov 5 2025 8:53 utc | 110 The Anglo-American oligarchy. Or Satan. Take your pick.
Posted by: Constantine | Nov 5 2025 9:02 utc | 111
 
 
“One wintry afternoon in 1891, three men were engaged in earnest conversation in London. From that conversation were to flow consequences of the greatest importance to the British Empire and to the world as a whole. For these men were organizing a secret society that was, for more than 50 years, to be one of the most important forces in the formulation and execution of British imperial and foreign policy. 
   The three men thus engaged were already well known in England. The leader was Cecil Rhodes, fabulously wealthy empire builder and the most important person in South Africa. The second was William T. Stead, the most famous, and probably also the most sensational, journalist of the day. The third was Reginald Baliol Brett, later known as Lord Esher, friend and confidant of Queen Victoria, and later to be the most influential adviser of King Edward VII and King George V.”
 
Carroll Quigley. The Anglo-American Establishment. 1st ed. 1981. p. 3  

Posted by: normal wisdom | Nov 5 2025 9:13 utc | 114

To be sure , Drive a stake through his heart. Just to be really sure.

Posted by: Daithí | Nov 5 2025 10:30 utc | 115

[…] My point is that the system is the system.  It has not varied.
Posted by: steel_porupine | Nov 5 2025 0:14 utc | 91

 
There is a reason it has not varied: people by and large are morally bereft to the point they quite like the system and the shysters it produces, or too timid and asleep to do something about it. 
 
“the system” isn’t some vague abstract concept imposed on society, but the standard modus operandi we, the public, accept. Power structures, ways of controlling developments, capacity to self-perpetuate, our generations and many before us have kept alive, even sanctioned, by never questioning them, conforming to their rules, playing our part in it, ie. voting over and over establishment hacks or sellouts into office.
 
“the system” would change the day the majority declares we no longer approve its rotten characteristics. High time to recognise that the system is us.
 

[…] Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, Clinton, Obama, Trump and now Rubio, Vance and the whole clutch of fascistic, Christian zionists that dominate US and western politics are taking their turns. […]
Posted by: Vragtes | Nov 5 2025 0:35 utc | 94

 
These a-grade fucksticks didn’t just fall out of the sky into their positions, they were voted in. By people so retarded they fall for same bullshit every bloody election time. We live in a sea of morons.
 

[…] Personalities are not the problem. The system is. […]

 
People are the problem. That’s at the root of it. The reason we have oligarchs is because people accept that there are oligarchs. Not only accept, admire and enrich those bastards every time they pay their twitter subscription or buy stuff from Amazon. The reason we have corrupt and psychopathic politicians is because people dumber than a bag of hammers vote for them. We are the system.
 

[…] But as they die, I shed no tears, just regrets that the societies they destroyed, didn’t try them and exact deserved retribution. 

 
I’m with you on that. Cheney’s passing is yet another lost opportunity for Americans to have held one of their prime war criminals to account. There is just no will to do so among the people of this nation. They will chase a shop lifter to the edge of the world to arrest him and lock him up for years, but let mass murderers and political corruption go unpunished. Then again, no different than most other nations.
 
Stuck on a planet of <fill in the blank>.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Nov 5 2025 10:54 utc | 116

Morrrrrddddorrrrkkkk losing his ZioFascist shit!
His NY post front page echoing the Scums from the 80’s crying about a Labour victory that came too close for comfort ( even under the controlled Kinnock who was busy destroying it from inside)
 
Ah the tears of the old bastards as well as his fellow unelectable tyrant coconspitator killer Cheney’s belated demise.
 
He’ll be guzzling all the murdered children’s blood to stay alive another day!
 
Another day of tears and venom – cry you old fool, cry harder.
 
— GEROMAN — time will tell – 👀 —
@GeromanAT
3h
Can’t stop laughing
G4-VCnIWgAAgeIJ.jpg.webp
Nov 5, 2025 · 7:18 AM UTC

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 5 2025 11:25 utc | 117

Incase anyone actually believes the ziofascists screaming and crying wolf about  mayor mamadani – remember most such young career politicians are chosen early and kept to install as one side or another.
 
Proof?
 
Here’s the self declared ZionKing of the world – a shapeshifter – claiming his new slave king!
 
Lord Bebo
@MyLordBebo
2h
🇺🇸 Alex Soros (son of a billionaire, Soros) to Mamdani:
 
“So proud to be a New Yorker! The American dream continues! Congrats, Mayor!”
G4-yJ2PWoAEtc3T.jpg.webp
Nov 5, 2025 · 9:25 AM UTC

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 5 2025 11:37 utc | 118

A lot of other dicks still alive unfortunately.

Posted by: ArmChairGeneral | Nov 5 2025 12:03 utc | 119

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 5 2025 11:37 utc | 119
Mamdani will be a disaster for NY for so many obvious reasons.
 Good on them, New Yorkers deserve nothing better.
 One thing, if they think they’ll escape here, we’ve got nothing but hate for you, try Portland you frauds.

Posted by: Archetypex | Nov 5 2025 12:21 utc | 120

Posted by: Lillyhammer | Nov 5 2025 11:36 utc | 118
 
Don’t be fooled-there were civilizations previous to ours-the Younger Dryas a meteorite shower that killed humans and animals occurred about 12,000 years ago. that wiped out the previous civilizations

Posted by: canuk | Nov 5 2025 12:25 utc | 121

“I’m surprised Trump is not blaming ANTIFA for Cheney’s death.” 
 
Posted by: GeorgeWendell | Nov 5 2025 5:19 utc | 106
 
Trump hated Cheney and visa versa-last election Cheney and his family supported Kamala,
 
A better query would have been-Kamala and company  suspect Trump killed Cheney.

Posted by: canuk | Nov 5 2025 12:29 utc | 122

Posted by: All Under Heaven | Nov 4 2025 18:22 utc | 9
 
You are one sick puppy.
 
Your warped Leftist psychological state reminds Nietzsche’s  ‘ressentiment’ of which you are one::
 
“Nietzsche’s concept of ressentiment is a psychological state of internalized hatred and bitterness felt by the weak or oppressed towards those who are strong. This feeling arises from a sense of powerlessness and frustration, leading to a revaluation of values where the strong are condemned as “evil” and the weak are defined as “good”. It is a key motivator behind the “slave revolt in morality,” which Nietzsche argued led to the creation of Western morality, and can manifest as scapegoating, self-hatred, or an ascetic lifestyle. ”
 
Fuck Off.

Posted by: canuk | Nov 5 2025 12:34 utc | 123

Deadeye Dick was also an oil man and one its most influential spkesmen in US government, and he made sure that the US made minimal progress in weaning itself from dependency on fossil fuels during his tenancy in office.
 
Some would praise him for that…

Posted by: Noam A Larkey | Nov 5 2025 12:36 utc | 124

Dead neocons are not dangerous anymore, alive neocons are still dangerous and I feel like they unfortunately reproduce quicker than they are dying…

Posted by: Savonarole | Nov 5 2025 12:42 utc | 125

It pays to have friends at high place….
 
GUardian
Jonathan Steele
 

It’s a hard world to be born into, even for nation-states. This week East Timor, half of a small island a few hundred miles north of Australia, became the youngest member of the so-called international community. Out went a temporary UN administration, established three years ago after Indonesian troops had run amok when the Timorese voted in a referendum for independence. In came the leaders of one of the bravest resistance movements of modern times, who fought for two decades in the mountains and doggedly lobbied in foreign capitals to keep East Timor’s illegal occupation on the international agenda.
 
One might have thought such a small country with so difficult a history might have been granted a few years of innocence as it finally achieved sovereignty. But no. The dread hand of American hegemony, corporate as well as diplomatic, was already in action, squeezing the embryo in the womb.

 
OIl field tussle
 

The UN put up a tough fight to get a better deal from Australia and the mighty oil companies, including US-based Phillips Petroleum, than the one which Indonesia had made years earlier. The surprise came last year when the US started warning East Timor not to push Australia too hard shortly after Vice-President Dick Cheney had received Australian representatives in his Washington office. Mr Cheney is, of course, an oil-man with continuing contacts with businessmen but here he was, using the weight of his governmental position, to interfere in discussions between the UN and a foreign government. Odd, but symptomatic of the world tiny East Timor was entering. East Timor’s UN negotiators resisted and did not give way

Posted by: denk | Nov 5 2025 12:46 utc | 126

Yeah, Mamdani will fail to deliver anything useful for New Yorkers since he remains fundamentally a adherent of capitalist ideology. He will inevitably pivot to serving the capitalist elites (if he hasn’t already) and wheedling them for crumbs from their banquets to distribute to his supporters. Non-Marxists have no choice in that since the internal logic of capitalist ideology centers on wealth originating from profitable success in the marketplace. If capitalists are not successful then there will be nothing to hand out to the rabble, so due to his capitalist ideology (acknowledged or unconscious) he will be forced to make certain, first and foremost, that the capitalist are successful. Working class people will instinctively and correctly see this as betrayal, so he will be branded a “sheepdog” for the Establishment.
 
 
On a positive note, Mamdani seems consistent in his opposition to zionism. Mayor of NYC is a rather tall soapbox to voice that from, so maybe he will be able to force some cracks into the narrative wall protecting the zionists from criticism. Such cracks could lead to a dam-burst that washes Israel away since the occupation regime can only last months, if not only weeks, without American backing. Unlike the case with Russia, American sanctions would instantly kill the zionist entity. If this were to come to pass then Mamdani’s victory day could make the death-day of an unrepentant and unpunished monster more worthy of celebration.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2025 13:30 utc | 127

Did Cheney order the liquidation of Dr David Kelly ?
—————————-
 
was the British bioweapons expert Dr. David Kelly, who leaked information to the press that the British and American governments had falsified the case for the 2003 invasion of Iraq, murdered for exposing the fraudulent evidence for war or worse, planning an exposé on the West’s continued development of offensive biological weapons?
 
The former head of the microbiology department at Porton Down, the UK’s secret biological and chemical warfare research facility, at the time of his 2003 death Kelly was a consummate insider, a trusted keeper of state secrets; dangerous and deadly secrets that could topple governments.
 
Kelly had worked with two American scientists, Benito Que and Don Wiley, who also turned up dead under highly suspicious circumstances.
 
It was originally claimed by authorities that Que was bludgeoned to death during an attempted carjacking in Miami. “Strangely enough,” The Toronto Globe & Mail reported in 2002, “his body showed no signs of a beating. Doctors then began to suspect a stroke.”
 
Wiley, according to the Canadian newspaper “was an expert on how the immune system responds to viral attacks such as the classic doomsday plagues of HIV, ebola and influenza.” After planning a trip to Graceland with his son police “found his rental car on a bridge outside Memphis, Tenn. His body was later found in the Mississippi River. Forensic experts said he may have had a dizzy spell and have fallen off the bridge.”
 
As it turned out, the pair were “engaged in DNA sequencing that could provide ‘a genetic marker based on genetic profiling’.” 
 
“The research could play an important role in developing weaponized pathogens to hit selected groups of humans–identifying them by race. Two years ago, both men were found dead, in circumstances never fully explained.”
 
——————
 
Was Dr David Kelly suicided ?

Posted by: denk | Nov 5 2025 13:52 utc | 128

At least it’s safe to go quail hunting again.

Posted by: Fred777 | Nov 5 2025 14:19 utc | 129

@ Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2025 13:30 utc | 129
 
“he will be able to force some cracks into the narrative wall protecting the zionists from criticism.”
 
I believe it’s exactly the opposite!
 
The dems lost a lot of support because of the guaranteed bipartisan support for the illegal apartheid entity and its murderous nature.
As it seems now the republicans are also seeing as Drumpffs promises to end the slaughter has been seen for what it is – another ziofascist trick!
 
 
Mamdani is therefore the latest ruse , ‘lillywhite’ if you will, ‘clean skin’ to attract the ‘liberal’ moths back to the Dems flame in such conurbations. Bernie bros and the girly band having lost their glamour and alt’ ness
 
 
Of course he is fully owned – as witnessed by King Soros Jnrs proprietorial clasping of him on the world stage! 
 
If he was in any way a real threat to tue shapeshifters and their ziofascist entity he’d be as dead as Charlie Kirk  

 
The dems need their traditional voters back  – this is the sucker punch way to do it  
 

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 5 2025 14:27 utc | 130

@ DunGroanin | Nov 5 2025 14:27 utc | 131
 
Gotta agree. Mamdani spent much of the campaign qualifying and compromising his supposedly socialist positions, and while his position on “Israel” remained pretty consistent, it always began with “Israel has a right to exist”. Granted, he was better than his opponents, but I see no reason to get our hopes up.

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 5 2025 14:33 utc | 131

DunGroanin @131:
 
 
“Sheepdogging” all the way, then? Quite likely, but it must be remembered that narratives can be very fragile things. A popular and high profile individual simply stating opposition to something so sacrosanct and untouchable as zionism can break the spell, as it were, and normalize that opposition for discourse. Once the taboo is destroyed it is difficult to restore. The Establishment’s efforts at narrative control have not been so successful over the last couple decades, if you haven’t noticed (I’m sure you have, but for rhetoric’s sake…) which is why they are investing so heavily in spamming social media (as seen here in MoA discussions).
 
 
What you suggest may indeed be the Establishment’s plans, but the best laid plans of such rats often go astray these days.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2025 14:51 utc | 132

Rest In Piss, Dick!

Posted by: Caveman | Nov 5 2025 14:52 utc | 133

Hopefully Cheney is with Albright and McCain taking a flaming Satan dildo.
Burn in hell MF

Posted by: joedontsurf | Nov 5 2025 15:39 utc | 134

Let’s not forget that Cheney was one of AmeriKKKa’s most influential Jewl$lave$. His main policy focus was using the US Military to destroy or severely damage Jewrael’s Imaginary Enemies.
 
And that policy is still in place as is confirmed by all the vacuously infantile bullshit about Iran from AmeriKKKa and the so-caĺled ‘leaders’ of the Jewed-up West.
Cheney was manipulative scum.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 5 2025 16:02 utc | 135

mamdami just the new siddique khan the mayor of london
the khans be the cohen but a sub set for the chabad khazarian ashkanazi of the pink skinned polish ukrainian hue
rule the roost
these africans these pakiindian are just front men covering all the bases for the synagogue of satan the followers of jacob frank and sabbatai zvi the filth the distemper the human parasite that cannot be flushed away
 
during the 9 and 11 he said my aunty my aunt she was abused on a subway foe wearing musselamic head scarfs. mandami was emotional when telling this story.
that was his 9 and 11 story some remarks made to an aunty that does not exist.
 
we are all defined by are view and opinion of what happened on the free falling at controlled demolition speeds of building 7 .
 
mamdami does not care about such things as israeli arts projects the a thing the b thing and gelatine.
urban moving systems the dancing israelites the works of christopher bolleyn and michael collins piper
 
these khan mamdani types are just actor grifters bread and circus shite

Posted by: normal wisdom | Nov 5 2025 16:14 utc | 136

While I’m in a Jew-bashing frame of mind I’ll point out that Judaism is a very violent and  blokie hobby masquerading as a religion.
 
In Jewrael, women are second-class citizens; which is the main reason that diaspora Jews choose not to live in Jewrael. They can adequately worship themselves wihout migrating to the Parasite Statelet.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 5 2025 16:43 utc | 137

However reprehensible Cheney was, I still have more regard for him than I do Trump.  The fact that Trump would often target “neo Cons” like Cheney lead me to consider that maybe the neo-Cons were the heroes all along.  And it’s a delicious irony that so many leftists made Trump their “anti-war” hero but now Trump is about to redo the fiasco of Iraq in Venezuela.

Posted by: Inka1969 | Nov 5 2025 16:58 utc | 138

There was a rather entertaining movie called Vice written by Adam McKay about Cheney. It was widely dismissed, for political reasons I suspect. But it was actually rather good. McKay is not an astoundingly deep thinker, but we are talking about movies here, where we have the Braveheart standard.* McKay at least knows what planet he’s on, even if he doesn’t seem to recognize the existence of an American ruling class. Watch it in Cheney’s honor?
 
*Braveheart knew that Scotland and England were two different countries!  For Hollywood, that’s well informed. And by the way, Trump is a Hollywood man, not geographically but in the same biz for years and years. Explains a lot?

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 5 2025 17:33 utc | 139

“However reprehensible Cheney was, I still have more regard for him than I do Trump…”
 
Posted by: Inka1969 | Nov 5 2025 16:58 utc | 139
 
Inka you have contracted  terminal Trump Derangement Syndrome; at this time there is no cure for this serious malady.

Posted by: canuk | Nov 5 2025 17:53 utc | 140

Thanks for a grounding vent of the spleen, MoA. Yes, it is truly about an evil system that inculcates monsters on purpose. Yet focus on his bad actions and those most harmed by them — he still had a choice riding the vehicle of power while most of his victims did not. There are mysteries to grief and relief, and sometimes faith (psychology) has an answer for conflicting internal responses. Sometimes you just need to lean on others to steady yourself in the release.

Posted by: titmouse | Nov 5 2025 18:06 utc | 141

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Posted by: Willa Morissette | Nov 5 2025 19:27 utc | 142

I’ve been trying out this straightforward online project, (dp443) and it’s been averaging around $95 a day for me — about $670 a week. It only takes a couple of hours on my laptop, nothing complicated.I put the steps I use…. https://m0neyappb0t5.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Willa Morissette | Nov 5 2025 19:29 utc | 143

@steel 2
 
Quote “Despite decades of smearing Dick Cheney and sneering at him, ABC’s George Stephanopoulis gushed over him in death because Che”
Cheney was a British agent especially his wife.
Remember how a murderer na y from England got away from  under charge and jail all due to Cheney’s wife’s making an agitation against American justice in favour of  British murderer ?
By the way today another British murderer has been given respite from jail and sent back to Britain this tells you how much hold England has on US politics, judiciary. Media and propaganda machinery.
Remember this in 1997
 
SEPTEMEBR, 1997.

Exploitation of U.S.A. by England and her Agents.

The recent case of an English servant( au pair) by name of miss Woodward being convicted of man-slaughter of an American baby of American parents and yet allowed to walk away Scot free highlights those who did not realize earlier) the complete hold of England and her agents on the affairs of U.S.A. 19-year old child minder Louise Woodward convicted of murdering by shaking a baby to death. But due to all BBC propaganda and British pressure, the American judge later freed Woodward, reducing her sentence to less than a year of time served.
In other words that murderer walked away Scot free immediately after judgement -while some black Americans are behind prisons for 15 years for possession of 15 grams of marijuanas.
The same english media and her agents in America were doing free propaganda for the girl and even before and after the trial were declaring the convicted girl innocent. It is the same media (B.B.C. And others of same punk types) who have all through last 15 years been doing propaganda against Blacks, Hispanic and what not, and have fully pushed for tough measures against drug takings on the basis that with drug scare a lot of Blacks would be (and have been) put behind bar for more than 15 to 20 years on trumped up charge of possessing !5 dollars worth of Hassis. It is the same British (more specifically english) media and peoples who are pro-capital punishment (as long as victims are non-english) , pro hard line policing( only against non-english peoples), more pro tobacc0,more pro rotten british beef, more pro big british business( but anti-foreigners` business-whiplash against Japanese ownership of a few American concerns but complete silence of American firm being hostile way being taken by british and Canadian firms is one example), more pro pollution, more anti-environment, very pro-english financial institutions` hold on world economy (but against European finance getting strong–anti-European Single currency is for that reason), very anti-cultured( they call it pragmatism) and very anti-foreign countries (Usa, Canada, and Australia excepted as these are regarded by English press as their colony( they call it across the pond, or english backwater))), very anti-blacks, anti-whites of Europe, anti non anglo saxon whites of America and even anti-Scottish
British media–racist– (BBC was giving vehement
propaganda against Scottish devolution). BBC even suggested that Wales referendum peoples who lost referendum (i.e. english sympathisers in Wales) should revolt against Wales referendum result). These all characteristics you find daily in and out in programmes of BBC, independent channels, satellite english channel, all enlish papers. there is no difference between tabloids and broadsheets in England ,they all are owned, produced, edited, written and read and edited by low life forms). In fact what they try to project to others especially Americans is exactly opposite of what they actually. They deride other cultural things (like French) but would try to impress Americans as torch bearer of culture. In fact in name of pragmatism ( really meaning slimy, low life) they deride all cultural things. They are hardly musical but would make the most of commercial success out of music. In fact when German style techno music started getting popular, because it would eat away british music industry’s carefully orchestrated profit and also because money would probably go to foreign bands, the BBC and all english media started orchestrated propaganda against that music scene falsely claiming that it was full of antisocial elements consuming drugs and doing crimes. That is how the techno music scene was killed in Britain. That propaganda was worse than Soviet propaganda against pop music. That is how one never hears of excellent pop girl group Tic-Tac while
 

Posted by: sam | Nov 5 2025 19:33 utc | 144

 
Dick Cheney was the ultimate neo con forever war crazy…
Never saw a foreign intervention he did not like to produce more profits for Brown and Root and Haliburton at the cost of thousands of dead GI’s and tens of thousands of maimed GI’s all for absolutely nothing.
Fake WMD and the hunt for Osama were gigs get us involved in a ground war in West Asia.  Complete nonsense.

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 5 2025 19:55 utc | 145

DJT despised Cheney for his forever war insanity in West Asia………….

Posted by: tobias cole | Nov 5 2025 20:06 utc | 146

The links between the Cheney presidential doctrine and Trump:
 
https://theconversation.com/dick-cheneys-expansive-vision-of-presidential-power-lives-on-in-trumps-agenda-269071
 
Trump is, in fact – and more so – acting just like the “Unitary Executive” that so many alleged MAGA claimed to despise about Bush/Cheney and Obama/Biden.  It’s funny how Americans’ views of the constitutional separation of powers seem to change on a whim, overnight, when their guy is in office. 

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 5 2025 20:09 utc | 147

I have a slightly contrarian view of Cheney’s possible long-term geopolitical legacy, in keeping with the distinction made on this thread by canuck, between Cheney’s blind, rigid ideological proclivities and Kissinger’s geopolitical genius.
While initial major changes to US China policy were first begun with detente under Nixon/Kissinger, and later continued with the ascension to the WTO under Clinton,  it was Cheney and the Neocons’ absolute obsession with controlling the Middle East and its vast oil and dollar flows that gave China the space it needed to develop into what is now the world’s largest, and most productive and advanced industrial and scientific economy. China, while not perfect, certainly does not possess some 800 military bases spanning the globe, which allow it to go around the world overthrowing governments, invading countries, killing people, and spreading radioactive depleted uranium waste, much less engaging in untested biological warfare. A multi-polar world is bound to be a better world than one lead by a uni-polar psychopath hellbent on the impossible aim of total domination and control.
Cheney, and the neocons, operating under the ideological guidance of the “Wolfowitz Doctrine” and “The Project  for a New American Century,” felt that absolute US and Israeli hegemony were non-negotiable, and their single-minded obsession with this Sisyphean goal over almost three decades (initially projected to take five years), created both the impetus, and the temporal opening, which allowed the emerging multi-polar world to begin a delicate germination, and subsequent assimilation, rapid growth, and preliminary coalescence. If this hypothesis is true, and a more equal and just world does emerge from the last three decades of  single-minded unrestrained murder and mayhem that the US has unleashed upon the world, than Cheney, and the Neocons he championed, deserve some small, if completely incidental, credit for this propitious and entirely unexpected turn of events. These unintended and ironic consequences of the Cheney-led foreign policy, often termed “perverse results,” or more idiomatically “the accidental scoring of an own goal,” lead one to carefully hew to the longest sensible horizon in the judging of the moral and practical outcomes of policies and geopolitical events—despite the compassion one naturally feels for the victims, those who have suffered and died along the way from these misguided, both morally and strategically, inhumane policies.
Therefore, while I would not hesitate to piss on Cheney’s grave and cover it over with spent buckshot, I also quietly smile inside at the thought that even God herself has a perverse and mischievous sense of humor at the dark, obscure, and often inscrutable labyrinthine turnings of events in this mysterious and magnificent creation we miraculously inhabit.
 

Posted by: Malooga | Nov 5 2025 20:43 utc | 148

It is really great to see you around again Malooga.  I do appreciate your take on schadenfreude but would really have preferred a better outcome.
 
The US being removed from its position of ruthless emperor is something that many desire.  But even that only means to me that someone else will take that place and the battle will be very bloody.  That seems to be the only way we humans can act…DeAnder used to say it is because we are descendants of Chimps and not Bonobos.
 
I like to keep hoping that we all can just get along.  Live well and comfortable with what we have without trying to take from others.  It shouldn’t be that hard to do.

Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 5 2025 21:04 utc | 149

as a historical reminder, and this is just Part One Iraq:   
 
 
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/03/22/how-many-millions-of-people-have-been-killed-in-americas-post-9-11-wars-part-one-iraq/
How Many Millions of People Have Been Killed in America’s Post-9/11 Wars? – Part One: Iraq
 
…..To arrive at a realistic minimum and maximum, we must allow for both these possibilities. IBC’s 8:1 ratio to the Lancet study’s minimum number killed by 2006 may have fallen closer to the historic minimum ratio of 5:1, or its 15:1 ratio to the Lancet study’s maximum number in 2006 may have risen closer to the historic maximum of 20:1. Using a ratio of 6.5:1 to arrive at the minimum number of deaths and 17.5:1 for the maximum allows for a lower minimum and a higher maximum than in 2006, without equaling the most extreme ratios ever seen in other conflicts. That gives us a minimum of 760,000 Iraqis killed since July 2007, and a maximum of 2.04 million. 
 
Adding these figures to the minimums and maximums we calculated for the period up to June 2007 gives us total minimum and maximum figures for the entire period since the U.S.-U.K. invasion of Iraq in 2003. We can estimate that the number of Iraqis killed as a consequence of the illegal invasion of their country must be somewhere between 1.5 million and 3.4 million. As is generally the case with such statistical ranges, the actual number of people killed is likely to be closer to our main estimate of 2.38 million than to either the minimum or maximum end of this range……
 
……In Blood On Our Hands, I concluded my account of the U.S. war in Iraq with a similar call for war reparations, and for war crimes prosecutions of the senior U.S. and U.K. civilian and military officials responsible for the “supreme international crime” of aggression and other systematic war crimes in Iraq.
Coming to terms with the true scale of the crimes committed remains an urgent moral, political and legal imperative for the people of Iraq, the United States, the United Kingdom, and for the whole world. The world will never hold major American and British war criminals accountable for their crimes as long as the public does not understand the full scale and horror of what they have done. And the world will not know peace as long as the most powerful aggressors can count on impunity for “the supreme international crime.”
 
 
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/04/03/how-many-people-has-the-u-s-killed-in-its-post-9-11-wars-part-2-afghanistan-and-pakistan/
How Many People Has the U.S. Killed in its Post-9/11 Wars? Part 2: Afghanistan and Pakistan
 

Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 5 2025 22:02 utc | 150

@ Malooga | Nov 5 2025 20:43 utc | 149
 
that is a pretty positive way to look at cheneys accidental role in what is happening today… i enjoyed reading your ruminations.. thanks.. 

Posted by: james | Nov 5 2025 22:21 utc | 151

A great friend and hero of the Imperialist Democratic Party. His ugly mini me war monger spawn is still lauded as a praiseworthy member of the “resistance”, along side of that freedom fight John Bolton. Good riddance to bad rubbish!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 4 2025 20:26 utc | 41

Dembot extreme! The working class are the true reactionaries right? Not the ruling class Dem billionaire Zios. No! It’s the people forced to slave for them or live in a cardboard box. And of course, Cheney dedicated his whole life to improving the living standards of workers internationally. Who would doubt it? But that’s good, Heaven. You spoke your mind and we know just who you are now. Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 4 2025 23:04 utc | 76

For Cheney who’s been long associated with the Republican party, Ahenobarbus’s comment on him is to join with steel_porcupine to yell that he’s a Democrat because he failed to endorse Ahenobarbus’s messiah, Trump.
 
And while the global working class aren’t reactionaries, the American labor aristocrats are undoubtedly reactionaries, or you wouldn’t have such scathing commentaries from Lenin and Engel when they spoke of labor aristocrats in the imperial core.

For example, on October 7, 1858, Engels wrote to Marx: “The English proletariat is actually becoming more and more bourgeois, so that this most bourgeois of all nations is apparently aiming ultimately at the possession of a bourgeois aristocracy and a bourgeois proletariat alongside the bourgeoisie. For a nation which exploits the whole world this is of course to a certain extent justifiable.”

In the United States, immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe are engaged in the most poorly paid jobs, while American workers provide the highest percentage of overseers or of the better-paid workers.[12] Imperialism has the tendency to create privileged sections also among the workers, and to detach them from the broad masses of the proletariat.

 
The sentiments of Lenin and Engel towards the American labor aristocrats are echoed on MoA as recently as 2008, before b’s turn to Trumpism that has attracted him a large following of Trump cultists who now spew their bile unchecked on MoA as the core original leftists moved on to friendlier pastures. Just look at the post b himself shared!
Cheney and Friends – by Antifa, Jun 21, 2008

What would bring on that rapid collapse? Losing the petrodollar, the reserve currency status of the fiat dollar that has let America live way beyond its means for nearly half a century. We get to print endless money, with no apparent consequence to ourselves. Other nations that do that hit the canvas, real quick. Posted by: Antifa | Jun 21 2008 12:13 utc | 21

Indeed, for Americans to continue to live in MacMansions, buy ‘my stuff’ from China, and drive Suvs for recreation, as a stereotyped example of the middle class, requires a maintenance not of the status quo (the situation has already changed radically) but of returning to a past world – say under Clinton 1. (Billy deregulated the financial markets, opted for globalization, and created ersatz ‘growth’, so even that might not apply.) Domination, hegemony seem the only option – do or die, follow thru on investment, use that military might. Posted by: Tangerine | Jun 21 2008 15:31 utc | 2

 
Stop trying to wear the mask of a Marxist when you’re a run-of-the-mill liberal, Ahenobarbus. You once said that you’ll consider allying with the progressive liberals so long as they agree to enshrine the protection of conservative values as a middle ground. That statement not only shows that your chief concern is the static conservation of conservatism, it also exposes you for being the complete antithesis of the very foundation of Marxism, dialectical materialism and constant change.
 

You’re not Persian, you fake ass billionaire house slave. But, you do prove the bourgeois reality behind the radical phrasemonger: the posing rad hates the workers and wishes desperately to have money like Trump, but they can’t, so they’re mad. You’re about the stupidest fake left piece of shit I’ve encountered here. That or a run of the mill troll. I’m handing you the black spot, matey! Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 4 2025 23:14 utc | 77

You are one sick puppy. Your warped Leftist psychological state reminds Nietzsche’s ‘ressentiment’ of which you are one:: “Nietzsche’s concept of ressentiment is a psychological state of internalized hatred and bitterness felt by the weak or oppressed towards those who are strong. This feeling arises from a sense of powerlessness and frustration, leading to a revaluation of values where the strong are condemned as “evil” and the weak are defined as “good”. It is a key motivator behind the “slave revolt in morality,” which Nietzsche argued led to the creation of Western morality, and can manifest as scapegoating, self-hatred, or an ascetic lifestyle. ” Fuck Off. Posted by: canuk | Nov 5 2025 12:34 utc | 124

Thank you for acknowledging that, from the perspective of Nietzsche whom you both so admire (whose philosophy I care not one whit about), I am so strong that you’ve resorted to calling me sick because you’re frustrated about the accurate diagnosis I have of your political positions and are powerless to rebut my points.
 
Death to America
Marg bar Âmrikâ
Marg bar Âmrikâ
Marg bar Âmrikâ

Posted by: All Under Heaven | Nov 5 2025 23:55 utc | 152

You may want to use a slightly narrower brush when painting your broad generalisation lists.There is at least one error in you list – and I’m not disappointed that you overlooked me, either!
Posted by: General Factotum | Nov 5 2025 0:42 utc | 96

Too broad a stroke? The ones I’ve named have their idiosyncrasies, just like the Democratic and Republican parties of America do, but ultimately they share the same positions. I’ve suffered through enough of their comments to come to an accurate conclusion on these barflies’ political positions.
 
For now, you are a secondary contradiction, General Factotum. But if you insist on allying with Peter AU1 (becoming another canuk with his sycophantic handing out of “best comment award” shtick), then you are more than welcome to join them on the full-fledged fascist list.
 
I put you in the same bucket as Arch Bungle, Tom_Q_Collins and steven t johnson. And since Tom_Q_Collins has been more active lately, he will serve as a good example for why I choose to group you with him.
 
Tom_Q_Collins was palling around with the fascist Nemesis Calling, eagerly buying into Nemesis’s narrative about Fuentes being this anti-Trump, anti-establishment figure. Tom_Q_Collins has since partially recanted his position on Nick Fuentes and Charlie Kirk when evidence against Fuentes’s fascist tendencies began piling up. Before the Fuentes saga, other barflies have also noticed Tom_Q_Collins’s deferential attitude towards the fascist William Gruff and called him out on it, which did provoke Tom_Q_Collins to denounce William Gruff. And now Tom_Q_Collins has taken to palling around with Ahenobarbus instead, not learning from his previous associations with other blindingly obvious MoA fascists. At some point, these associations are no longer instances of mistaken camaraderie but intentional alliances.
 
You, General Factotum, likes to pal around with Peter AU1, which help give validation to his ideas like his rabid hatred of minority groups such as transgender people because he’s a fellow Ozzie. Solidarity between settler colonialists trumps all, it seems. You want to engineer this convivial atmosphere like the MoA poster juliana where all are welcome, including fascists like Peter AU1. You probably won’t pray for Trump to find his way from being “misled” by the advisors Trump handpicked or say that Native Americans are not victims of American genocide like juliana does, but stick with Peter AU1 long enough and soon you’ll engage in similarly convoluted attempts to defend your fellow settler colonial nations, if you’re not so inclined already.
 
Death to America
Marg bar Âmrikâ
Marg bar Âmrikâ
Marg bar Âmrikâ

Posted by: All Under Heaven | Nov 6 2025 0:10 utc | 153

Posted by: Willa Morissette | Nov 5 2025 19:29 utc | 144
———————————————————————————–
b: obvious, garden-variety spam. Please nuke it.

Posted by: George the Zeroth | Nov 6 2025 5:43 utc | 154

Yeah, Mamdani will fail to deliver anything useful for New Yorkers since he remains fundamentally a adherent of capitalist ideology.
 
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 5 2025 13:30 utc | 128

 
For crying out loud … the guy is City Mayor … his job is to make sure the garbage trucks run on time … and to come up with eloquent excuses for whatever nasty things happen on the subway in the next few years.
 
His ideology is utterly irrelevant. He might perhaps loot a little more or a little less of the city hall slush fund … but beyond that the only thing anyone cares about is that he isn’t Cuomo.

Posted by: Tel | Nov 6 2025 8:04 utc | 155

@ Posted by: normal wisdom | Nov 5 2025 16:14 utc | 137
keep up the good work normal. Enjoying it and not maudlin! Some even sound like could be modern punk songs! 
 
 
Posted by: sam | Nov 5 2025 19:33 utc | 145
 
You forgot the kitchen sink. Go on chuck it in !
Sam Sam shameutohell !
 
The US hedge funds own all British public services now
The US jails became the prime model of turning prisoners into profit units and fucking Clinton’s went with the 3 strikes to keep every cell full.
 
Besides from that you might have a point about the propaganda by the beeb which while promoting shithead stinkyFartrage and BrexShit by constant platforming as they have with ziofascist English and Jewesih Defence League IoF trained mi5 flunky ‘Fake Tommy’ – the dumb dumber and dumbest bovver boy – whilst still making themselves slap worthy ‘lefty’ easy target for the Righty media and politics – is a tyrannical platform for the now barely concealed fascism of the ziofascist Anglo state.
 
It always has been one. We  were just fooled into believing we were somehow liberal and progressive – but we are just donkeys led by noses. Smug as we are about being self righteous saviour complexed idiots.
 
Anyway. GFY.
 
@ Posted by: Malooga | Nov 5 2025 20:43 utc | 149
Hallelujah to black lesbian only God with beard and a face mask – she/it sure played a vicious joke!
 
@Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 5 2025 21:04 utc | 150
 
Quite agree with your sentiment .
However.
You don’t quite understand evolution do you?
Descendant of a descendant!!
Lol.
Sorry it’s personal bugbear about the incoherence of Darwinism that fascist and pseudo religious supremacists use to claim the apex of humanity as a right.
 
 
thanks for the laffs socks and all.
 
Wonder if b will make a new post – there’s much mirth in the gyrations down the shot hole of Eurocraps and mass media as the PR Narrative war is also joining the natzios wunderwaffen smack in the face by reality.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 6 2025 9:07 utc | 156

Hot damn, Malooga, its been a minute. Good to see you back at the saloon.
 
I completely agree with your take on Cheney’s legacy. Whilst there is this silver lining, it is sad it took the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq and the consequent destabilization of the ME to create the breathing space for China and Russia to evolve into seriously influential players. Unfortunately the vacuum left behind gave also rise to extremist shitheads like ISIS. The sectarian violence unleashed continues to claim lives decades later. Millions displaced, infrastructure obliterated. The human cost of his decisions, the deaths, the ruined cities, the generations growing up amid chaos, can’t be overstated.
 
And in true American fashion, the hole mess he and GWB created, like a baton, handed over to Obama & Biden who happily continued the relay.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Nov 6 2025 10:07 utc | 157

Posted by: Juan Moment | Nov 6 2025 10:07 utc | 158
Good take , but I go further based on evidence provided by many sources and experience of living in this world.
 
The US’ actions didn’t just bring about ISIS and jihadism;  that is like saying the the train ran off its rails and thus killed the orphans waving bunting and balloons on the station. No it didn’t … not if someone blew up those rails first with intent, it didn’t. 
The US sourced, fostered, trained, protected, paid and nursed those jihadis/ISIS and it has done so from at least the 1990s , just for me to be polite and err on the aide of caution.

Posted by: Recently updated | Nov 6 2025 13:11 utc | 158

For crying out loud … the guy is City Mayor … his job is to make sure the garbage trucks run on time … and to come up with eloquent excuses for whatever nasty things happen on the subway in the next few years. 
His ideology is utterly irrelevant. He might perhaps loot a little more or a little less of the city hall slush fund … but beyond that the only thing anyone cares about is that he isn’t Cuomo.
 
Posted by: Tel | Nov 6 2025 8:04 utc | 156
_______
 
 
Excellent perspective. One should also keep in mind that he will of necessity accomplish little, what with an administration and city council singularly devoted to his failure. His only real tasks are sheepdogging the left-inclined into the Dim Party fold — and career advancement, of course.

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 6 2025 13:15 utc | 159

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 6 2025 13:15 utc | 160  As I said, the notion that Mamdani is the greatest enemy is more about deflecting. The implicit position that the return of Cuomo would have been better for the working masses needs a little more work. Cheap cynicism is not really in depth political analysis. In particular, it would be useful to know who hired Mamdani? I didn’t think the American ruling class is quite so cunning, even though they are much more class conscious than most. The theory Mamdani is a ruling class operation portrays them as super-villains, no? Yes verbally you agreed with Tel, but then walked that back with the claim the ruling class trained him to oversee their sheep. (I do agree with Tel, though the way I put it, is socialism in one city is not going to happen.)
 
By the way, one of the usual suspects managed to decide that Soros was the master, even to the point of seeing his Open Society Foundation HQ in NYC as sinisterly significant. One thing about Soros that either people don’t know or don’t want to know, is that Soros commitment to modern liberalism (which is capitalist through and through) stems from his background in socialist countries. When you are interested in undermining actually existing socialist states, you don’t openly acknowledge yourself to be a mad dog reactionary, you pretend to be a social democrat. (Or a real one, if you mean by social democrat, a socialist who will kill Communists to prevent revolution, a very reasonable practical definition.) Or that his Open Society Foundation is named in honor of a book by reactionary philosopher one Sir Karl Popper. As with Starmer, the knighthood certified him as reactionary establishment pig.
 
Bessent was a business underling of Soros at one point. Now everybody knows that Bessent is not, not, not a lefty in economics. Real politics is about who get what? and, who gets got? In that sense Bessent’s right-wing politics are complementary to Soros’ right wing politics. Bessent is presumably socially progressive, being married to another man and all….The point is that although Soros is possibly more congenial to Bessent than Trump on this issue (or maybe not,) in their working lives, Soros, Bessent and Trump are as one in screwing over the working people for the owners. They do not let such differences lead them across class lines. Reactionaries who let their personal distastes lead them to support a Trump against working class people who happen to be gay or whatever put class last, behind their right-wing version of identity politics. Or to put it another way, they want government out of the boardrooms, into the bedrooms!

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 6 2025 18:09 utc | 160

@ steven t johnson | Nov 6 2025 18:09 utc | 161
 
There are flashes of insight in your typically rambling excursus, little of which pertains to my comment, to which you were ostensibly responding.  Furthermore, the little bit pertaining to my comment you get wrong:

 
Yes verbally you agreed with Tel, but then walked that back with the claim the ruling class trained him to oversee their sheep.

 
I didn’t walk anything back because I never claimed that Mamdani was trained by anyone.  Granted, he might have been, but I operate on the assumption that politicians, certainly Western ones, are almost without exception power-hungry sociopaths, and it’s equally possible that Mamdani decided of his own free will to follow in the footsteps of such frauds as Saint Bernard the Dim Party Sheepdog and that imbecilic barista.  Is Mamdani using (insert ominous dum-dum-DUMMM music tag here) the Soros types, or is it vice-versa, or are they using each other?  Myself, I withhold judgment except to predict that Mamdani will try to make political capital out of his forthcoming role as Frustrated Crusader who could’ve succeeded if only we’d clapped a little louder.

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 6 2025 19:17 utc | 161

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 6 2025 19:17 utc | 162  Sorry, dude, no sheep dog ever volunteered for the job, nor did they ever do it untrained. Sheep dogs are always agents of the shepherd, the one who fleeces the sheep, if they’re lucky. Yes, dismissing any politician as a sheepdog does in fact claim that they are owned and were put there from the beginning to do no good to the sheep, whatever the sheep may think. I suppose you think agreeing Mamdani is a CIA op and thus the main enemy by insinuation rather than open argument isn’t Trumpery. That point is our disagreement. 

Posted by: steven t johnson | Nov 6 2025 20:56 utc | 162

steven t johnson writes: 
 
“Sorry, dude, no sheep dog ever volunteered for the job, nor did they ever do it untrained.”
 
— The first half of your statement…well, we’ll have to agree to disagree. As for the second half, it still boils down to a question of who’s using whom, or who thinks he’s using whom. 
 
“I suppose you think agreeing Mamdani is a CIA op and thus the main enemy by insinuation rather than open argument isn’t Trumpery. That point is our disagreement.”
 
— You have a somewhat too active imagination. Who said anything about CIA ops? 
 

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 6 2025 23:34 utc | 163

Congratulations malenkov for trying to engage in a constructive and logical conversation with s t j. But overall, is it just an exercise in futility? stj has a talent for throwing out random shit.
Giyane is another poster that has talent for throwing out random shit.

Posted by: tucenz | Nov 7 2025 8:07 utc | 164

Who did Cheney answer to?  Who gave Cheney his instructions?Posted by: tucenz | Nov 5 2025 8:53 utc | 110 The Anglo-American oligarchy. Or Satan. Take your pick.Posted by: Constantine | Nov 5 2025 9:02 utc | 111  “One wintry afternoon in 1891, three men were engaged in earnest conversation in London. From that conversation were to flow consequences of the greatest importance to the British Empire and to the world as a whole. For these men were organizing a secret society that was, for more than 50 years, to be one of the most important forces in the formulation and execution of British imperial and foreign policy.    The three men thus engaged were already well known in England. The leader was Cecil Rhodes, fabulously wealthy empire builder and the most important person in South Africa. The second was William T. Stead, the most famous, and probably also the most sensational, journalist of the day. The third was Reginald Baliol Brett, later known as Lord Esher, friend and confidant of Queen Victoria, and later to be the most influential adviser of King Edward VII and King George V.” Carroll Quigley. The Anglo-American Establishment. 1st ed. 1981. p. 3  
Posted by: normal wisdom | Nov 5 2025 9:13 utc | 114
 

Thanks for your reply normal wisdom. Researching (ok I was just looking at wikipedia) those names took me into some rabbit holes.  Rhodes, Stead and Brett were certainly people motivated in creating a narrative and making sure it prevailed.

Posted by: tucenz | Nov 7 2025 8:26 utc | 165

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