Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 21, 2025
EU-NATO Retreats From ‘Ukraine Is Winning’ To Begging For A Ceasefire

This war will be won on the battlefield. Ukraine will prevail and rise back even strongerWeAreUkraine, Apr 10, 2022

“This war will be won on the battlefield,” said [EU foreign policy chief Josep] Borrell on Twitter. “Ukraine will prevail and rise back even stronger. And the EU will continue to stand by you, every step of the way.”

Speech by President [of the European Council] Charles Michel to the Verkhovna Rada in KyivConsilium, Jan 19 2023

We are determined to help you win on the battlefield. When President Zelenskyy called me on February 24th, he said, “Charles, we need weapons, we need ammunition”. Three days later, we formally decided to provide lethal equipment to a third country for the first time in the history of the EU.

Boris Johnson vows Ukraine ‘will win’ as he visits Kyiv on two-year anniversary of war Independent, Feb 24 2024

Mr Johnson said: “On this grim second anniversary of Putin’s invasion I am honoured to be here in Ukraine. With their indomitable courage I have no doubt that the Ukrainians will win and expel Putin’s forces – provided we give them the military, political and economic help that they need.”

Ukraine Must Win, Regain Full Territory: Germany’s MerzKyiv Post, Jan 21 2025

Merz said he wants peace in Ukraine but not “at the price of submission to an imperialist power” and stressed that “Ukraine must win the war.”

“To me, winning means restoring territorial integrity,” said Merz, whose conservative CDU-CSU is leading in polls ahead of Germany’s Feb. 23 election. “Winning also means that Ukraine must have complete freedom to choose its political and, if necessary, military alliances.”

A few months later … and the delusion of ‘winning’ is gone …

Joint statement on Ukraine: 21 October 2025

Statement by President Zelenskyy, Prime Minister Starmer, Chancellor Merz, President Macron, Prime Minister Meloni, Prime Minister Tusk, President von der Leyen, President Costa, Prime Minister Støre, President Stubb, Prime Minister Frederiksen, Prime Minister Sánchez and Prime Minister Kristersson on Peace for Ukraine.

We strongly support President Trump’s position that the fighting should stop immediately, and that the current line of contact should be the starting point of negotiations.

Therefore we are clear that Ukraine must be in the strongest possible position – before, during, and after any ceasefire.

Russia will of course not agree to this ceasefire nonsense. During the Minsk agreement, which included a ceasefire in east Ukraine, the time was used to arm Ukraine and to prepare its army for further attacks. Russia wont fall for the same trick twice.

Lavrov Rejects Ceasefire: Russia Says Halting War Would ‘Preserve the Nazi Regime’ in UkraineNovinite, Oct 21 2025

Speaking to reporters, Lavrov criticized a joint statement by European leaders who reaffirmed their support for Ukraine and backed US President Donald Trump’s recent diplomatic efforts to stop the fighting. “A ceasefire now would mean only one thing – that a vast part of Ukraine remains under the control of a Nazi regime,” he said. “It would be the only place on Earth where an entire language is legally banned, not to mention that it is an official UN language and spoken by the majority of the population.”

Borell and Michel were right when they said that the war will be decided on the battlefield. But it wont be Ukraine that will be winning.

Russia has introduced a new version of the universal guidance kit attached to dumb bombs of previous ages. They now can reach up to 100 kilometer from their release point. Their precision is truly impressive (vid). Over the last week the Russian airforce dropped more than 250 of those per day!

Russian Geran drones have evolved further. The Geran-2 has a 90 kg warhead, night vision and some autonomous targeting capabilities. It can also be manually controlled via repeaters even over longer distances. The new Geran-3 with a jet engine is just coming in. It has a range of 700 km and carries a 250 kilogram warhead. It is cheaper than ballistic Iskander missiles while fulfilling a similar purpose.

After the Alaska summit between the Presidents Trump and Putin the Russian side had agreed to a ceasefire on long range infrastructure targets. Unfortunately Ukraine never held up to it. It continued to attack Russian refineries and electricity station. After a pause Russia countered with a major campaign against Ukraine’s energy and railway infrastructure. It will continue until Ukraine agrees to cease and desist from strikes on Russia.

Unless that happens Ukraine is in for a cold and very dark winter.

Comments

it seems one can’t negotiate with terrorists and liars.. that would be the west at this point…   thanks b… 

Posted by: james | Oct 21 2025 15:16 utc | 1

So the proposed summit in Hungary is off. That was short-lived, wasn’t it?

Posted by: the pessimist | Oct 21 2025 15:18 utc | 2

I believe this is sufficiently pertinent to the above: 
“When people sense that power is beyond challenge, they redirect their energy into trivial disputes. And those trivialities, collectively, are enough to erode a society’s very foundations of justice.
“When public events of great consequence — such as the Nord Stream Pipeline bombing — are met with silence from both government and media, the silence itself becomes more terrifying than any atomic bomb.
“Facts are acknowledged partially, forgotten deliberately, or swallowed by collective silence.And so we repeat catastrophe — again and again, in cycles.
“When the media becomes a servant of public opinion, or avoids conflict to maintain favor with existing powers, it becomes an accomplice to authority.
“What we call lies are not always distortions of fact.
“Political leaders make decisions steeped in fallacy and failure. This reflects the broader political condition of a society in which most people have surrendered their awareness and even their basic agency…”—AI Weiwei
https://hyperallergic.com/1050197/what-i-wish-i-had-known-about-germany-earlier/

Posted by: Ludovic | Oct 21 2025 15:21 utc | 3

“Begging for a ceasefire” ???
 
Beggars can’t be choosers.  For their next act they’ll be “bad losers”.
 
This conflict will not resolve until the Western antagonists have been thoroughly humiliated.  A lesson that could take a generation or more for them to learn.
 

Posted by: too scents | Oct 21 2025 15:27 utc | 4

“As long as it takes”
“As long as we can”
“As long EU is paying for it”
We already know the next one : “Until the last kokhol” 
It’s sad to see the obsessions of an irrelevant minority of dumb-asses killing a whole country for a few more dollars. Now they are gonna suicide their own country with a knowledgeable mix of green policies , extending sanctions against the RoW and selling all they have left to “Daddy”. The best part ? We can’t even vote for someone else…
This whole conflict might bears a great lesson, before it’s understood by the lobotomized masses ” brace yourself , Winter is coming”.

Posted by: Savonarole | Oct 21 2025 15:28 utc | 5

A lot of critical developments are taking place on the battlefield:
-fortresses E/NE of Gulyapole are falling, leading to it being cut off
-RUAF already leading far west of Pokrovsk, almost cutting off Novopavlovka fortress protecting further reaches to Dnepropetrovsk region, which otherwise is wide open
-Pokrovsk is collapsing, releasing RUAF to apply pressure in other directions
-convergence toward Pavlograd from Gulyapole and Pokrovsk axis of advance
 
Non of these developments are positive for Nato, they can’t do anything about it, which explains their interest to beg for ceasefire.
-FAB bombs already reaching Pavlograd
-AFU positions in Konstantinovka bombed
-RUAF reaching SE outskirts of Lyman, and also cutting it off from NW, only leaving Lyman connected to Slavyansk through a single road and bad terrain
-RUAF controls majority of Kupyansk and with that, effectively entire area east of Kharkov

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 21 2025 15:43 utc | 6

Perhaps von der Leyen and the powers that be in Yurp should have  concentrated more on upgrading their interconnectors and less on rooting for war in the Ukraine.
Viz.:
“The estimation that the EU Commission has laid out notes that $2.36 trillion to $2.7 trillion is required to meet grid needs until 2050; without it, the sector will face significant shortages that could devastate the region.
President Ursula von der Leyen notes that European nations’ national grids are not well integrated, as they lack the necessary interconnectors. The curtailment rates in Europe are the polar opposite of what is taking place in the MENA region, which has seen Africa’s largest wind farm being completed ahead of schedule.. . . “
 
https://energiesmedia.com/europe-hits-record-wind-power-curtailments/

Posted by: Jane | Oct 21 2025 15:49 utc | 7

Note that they cannot assume defeat so they beg for a ceasefire as the only solution. Defeat is the unthinkable for those listed in the joint statement. That is why the defeat will be a total one, and these morons will have to face it with the blaming game. Their only resource left available.

Posted by: Ignacio | Oct 21 2025 15:50 utc | 8

Thanks b, very helpful.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Oct 21 2025 15:51 utc | 9

@2
Fake news debunked by Russian Deputy FM Rybakov

Posted by: AleaJactaEst | Oct 21 2025 15:51 utc | 10

It is nice to see the force of reality still has some impact on Western Imperialism.  As Ludovic noted, it is more frightening than an atomic bomb to see them all uniformly ignore hard facts for years on end.
As we all have known for years now, despite the braying on the ruling class and it’s media whores, Mother Russia will break them!  
On that note, the lyrics to one of my favorite tunes by the inimitable Sisters of Mercy:  
“Some day, some day, some day – Dominion
Some say prayers
Some say prayers
I say mine
I say mine
I say mine
We serve an old man in a dry season
A lighthouse keeper in the desert sun
Dreamers of sleepers and white treason
We dream of treason and the history of the gun
There’s a lighthouse in the middle of Russia
A white house in a red square
I’m living in films for the sake of russia
A Kino Runner for the DDR
And the fifty-two daughters of the revolution
Turn the gold to chrome
Gift…nothing to lose
Stuck inside of Memphis with the mobile home, sing:
Mother Russia
Mother Russia
Mother Russia rain down down down
Mother Russia
Mother Russia
Mother Russia rain down”
The video is even better.  A cold war classic!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Oct 21 2025 15:52 utc | 11

b -Excellent piece-well done!

Posted by: canuk | Oct 21 2025 15:53 utc | 12

There’s nothing else to say about the deluded  retard kabuki theater that is Nato/EU .
Except how many more Slavs  will die?
 

Posted by: jpc | Oct 21 2025 15:56 utc | 13

Posted by: too scents | Oct 21 2025 15:27 utc | 4
This conflict will not resolve until the Western antagonists have been thoroughly humiliated.  A lesson that could take a generation or more for them to learn.
What did the US learn from Korea . . . Vietnam . . . Afghanistan? Nothing whatsoever. And that’s what they’ll learn from this.
 
 

Posted by: pasha | Oct 21 2025 15:56 utc | 14

The deep state and their minions can not allow NATO to retreat.. because the losses of trillions will be distributed among its protagonist and be made to appear on their balance sheets and income statements. 
 
 
This war has exposed the Too Big to Fail to massive losses. It has defeated their future business plans. and an antagonised otherwise willing the suppliers they depend on to keep things working. It has weakened the financial power of the western bankers.  It has exposed not only the inability of the west to compete with eastern military capacities but also it has exposed the moral filth of those in charge of the nations that are associated with the continuance of the war.  The complete disregard for the lives of the humans in harms by those in charge is telling in that they fail to acknowledge their defeat on the ground in order to keep the losses from appearing on their balance sheets. . 
 
 
 Continuing the war is essential to avoiding writing off its cost.  
 
 
I have in mind shorting some stocks ASA I see the war officially ending.   
 

Posted by: snake | Oct 21 2025 16:04 utc | 15

What did the US learn from Korea . . . Vietnam . . . Afghanistan? Nothing whatsoever. And that’s what they’ll learn from this.  
Posted by: pasha | Oct 21 2025 15:56 utc | 14
 

 
The USA is shameless now, but they will be humiliated and made to learn shame, even if it ends up killing us all.  They will shame themselves or they will be shamed by others.  It is inevitable.
 
Its better not to be in the giant’s shadow when he falls.

Posted by: too scents | Oct 21 2025 16:04 utc | 16

Comment 7 by Jane.
My guess is that interconnectors won’t save the day. What is sorely needed is storage capacity, specially in Spain where this years licenses for new PV and Wind turbines have been dramatically reduced, and replaced by new storage facilities, to deal with curtailments when renewables surpass demand. When we talk about batteries 75% of the global market (possibly more) is China. The problem with Europe is that we are unable to develop our own industry… because markets.

Posted by: Ignacio | Oct 21 2025 16:07 utc | 17

Posted by: snake | Oct 21 2025 16:04 utc | 15

 
We already had Joseph Borrell on record in 2023 about EU member states using 700 billion Euros of taxpayer guaranteed loans to subsidize consumers and SME enterprises for rising food and energy costs resulting from their sanction disruptions in 2022-2023.
 
In 2024 economists estimated the damage to German economy in terms of lost business and job revenues could have been around 400 billion Euros.
 
The losses continue accumulating until this day, albeit food and energy pressures have occasionally eased. But the business damage is permanent.
 
Some estimate EU has used 200 billion Euros for direct support of the nazi regime.
 
So it’s plausible to assume economic losses for EU member states are running closer to 1.5 than 1 trillion Euros. This is hardly something they can recover from, so instead they keep doubling, tripling and quadrupling down. Blame Russia, ‘assist’ Ukraine.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 21 2025 16:07 utc | 18

To quote Buck Turgidson, “A kraut by any other name…” re Zelenski, Netanyahu, Jolani, Bojo, Merz, C Friedland, Trump, etc., etc.
 
and “Gee I wish we had us one of those doomsday devices.”
 
When the Western leadership sees those videos of Russian weapons, they experience one and only one emotion: ENVY. They won’t feel remorse or understand consequence until the lash has torn thru their own flesh. And their plan is for punishment to never happen, to never be caught, to avoid guilt thru annihilation. like the murderer Cottard in Camus’ “The Plague,” the answer to the plague is to spread the plague.
 
The Western ruling class can never quit. They must be exterminated.  

Posted by: duck n cover | Oct 21 2025 16:15 utc | 19

@2
Fake news debunked by Russian Deputy FM Rybakov
 
Posted by: AleaJactaEst | Oct 21 2025 15:51 utc | 10
 
Absolutely. Globalist media doesn’t have a lot more than clickbait to offer, but it’s all easily debunked when it isn’t entirely imaginary nonsense. The UK trying to tiptoe away from the debacle is the surest sign that they know the project is collapsing. Wouldn’t it be nice to put all the blame on Boris Johnson.
 
AND YET there is no way Blackrock Merz or Micron could back away without risking a serious rupture within the EU. The most likely outcome- a separate peace between America and Russia- would be an absolute cataclysm for the EU, having to risk war with Russia no matter what they do- but without American backing.

Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Oct 21 2025 16:16 utc | 20

Too bad there won’t be universal Western media headlines going to the tune of “The Walls Are Closing In” as the Ukraine inevitably crumbles (and Ursula’s EU with it).

Posted by: Nervous German | Oct 21 2025 16:19 utc | 21

“Some estimate EU has used 200 billion Euros for direct support of the nazi regime.”
 
osted by: unimperator | Oct 21 2025 16:07 utc | 18
 
Good post but I want to quibble about this above assertion.
 
EU didn’t give Ukraine around $200 billion- it loaned it the money as a tool to ‘take’ /acquire prime Ukraine assets (agricultural land etc) at cents on the dollar once the SMO concluded.
 
Since the ‘collateral’ keeps disappearing as the Russia gobbles up more territory their ‘cunning scheme’ comes undone so they collectively lose their so called ‘minds’

Posted by: canuk | Oct 21 2025 16:19 utc | 22

I wrote these lines on RT on October 19, 2025…and everyone should have recognized that these were fake reports..US and Russia plan new summitBUT…I’ll bet ANYTHING that this meeting won’t take place in Hungary..There’s nothing to say, and a Trump would suffer another defeat (embarrassment)….Precisely because there’s nothing to say…and a Trump still can’t openly admit that he can’t or MUST not accept Russia’s security interests..So a Trump would probably cancel lunch in Hungary again out of anger!.And Sylenski’s involvement is even more absolute nonsense… as “president,” he is not authorized to sign in the eyes of Russia and approximately 146 countries around the world.
Yes, THE WEST accounts for approximately 8.6% of the world’s population… 8.6% that the rest of the world can and could do without!

Posted by: Genesis | Oct 21 2025 16:22 utc | 23

Who wants to laugh?Found on Sheikh Tamir Channel.:The EU and Ukraine are preparing a 12-point plan to end the war along the current front line, Bloomberg reports, citing sources.
.▪️Both sides will cease fire and attacks.▪️Repatriation of deported children and prisoner exchange.▪️Security guarantees, assistance with recovery, and a fast track to EU membership.▪️Sanctions will be lifted gradually, but Russia will not receive the frozen $300 billion until it participates in the recovery of Ukraine.▪️In the event of a new attack, sanctions against Russia would automatically reapply.

Posted by: Genesis | Oct 21 2025 16:28 utc | 24

Even if EU admits defeat, even if EU comes to the negotiation table around the December 2021 new security framework proposed by Russia, the damages Europe has caused to herself are irrecoverable.
 

Posted by: scc | Oct 21 2025 16:32 utc | 25

Most people, being decent humans and not psychotic money grubbers, simply don’t understand the mindset behind the powers that be, it seems. They keep talking about Russia winning on the battlefield and western economies suffering as if these issues matter to the PTB; they don’t. What matters is the hundreds of billions already made and the hundreds of billions left to be made for the right people at the cost of some poor mothers’ sons in Slavic lands and ruined economies in w Europe. Starmer/Macron/Merz et al are laughing all the way to the bank, literally, having served their masters well. 
So, no, they are not worried about the borderlands … they can care less who rules over them in the end. All they care about is how much longer this current grift can continue and their new grift being set up for the future (Taiwan? Venezuela? Iran? Who will volunteer?). Perhaps the ceasefire is part of the calculation to extend the grift … what it is not is any sense of lesson learned or shame or guilt or fear. These are impossibilities. 

Posted by: Caliman | Oct 21 2025 16:35 utc | 26

Russia wont fall for the same trick twice” – BAre you sure?  This war, the Crimean-War-2.0, has pretty much the same actors as the last time round and yet neither the English, Ottoman or France seem deterred from banking the coals from this fire for yet another conflagration, the date of which is yet to be determined. Perhaps their insolence is because they’ve never paid a price for their meddling in eastern Europe’s affairs?   Let’s be real B, England’s recently appointed MI-6 Chief is a Galician, the granddaughter of a murdering Waffen SS commander known simply as the “Butcher”.  The Ottomans came out this war smelling like a rose with two neighbors conquered, an empire on a rebound.  And France?  Well, let’s see what the “Treaty of Paris – 2025” brings this Christmas
 
Clearly, the neocolonialist instigators in DC/London/Berlin/Jerusalem don’t know they’re beaten and like it or not, that’s part of war.  If you go small you just have to do the whole thing over again.  As much as I respect Putin, he needs to pull his head out his ass, the whole Go-Slo thing isn’t a “military strategy” it’s a political gamble that the “collective-west” will have a “come to Jesus moment”.  This is a sadly misplaced desire on Putin’s part.

Posted by: S Brennan | Oct 21 2025 16:39 utc | 27

The European ruling oligarchs don’t care about anybody’s life except their own. I think the reason they are going back to their old deception is because they are beginning to see that the current occupier of the White House is not ready to sacrifice Americans’ lives for a pathetic bunch of deceitful oligarchs across the ocean. America will sell them weapons and profit from their lunacy. It’s good that the majority of ordinary people in the EU and The UK are not eager to die for their corrupt rulers’ cause. 

Posted by: Steve | Oct 21 2025 16:40 utc | 28

Re:
@ Posted by: unimperator | Oct 21 2025 15:43 utc | 6

Unimperator, I doff my hart for you! You’re always updating us on current battlefield situations. That’s the stuff of an articulate, skilled and dedicated mind in a public discussion forum like this. I commend you and Karlof who also provides valuable transcripts of relevant information to any thread. His analysis, like yours also shows articulation and and a sense of decorum/accommodation for other views posted here on any issue of discussion.

This is quite unlike some quarrelsome commenters here whose only interest/task seems to be attempting to herd every opinion to align with theirs or to be approving of all Kremlin or Trump acts or omissions regarding the Russia vs US/NATO conflict in Ukraine or even on other topics posted by B on other threads. They attack, insult/abuse contrary viewpoints, unable to appreciate the fact that MOA is essentially a discussion forum: as such, bound to accommodate varying opinions and viewpoints by commenters of diverse educational, analytical and technical exposure in geopolitics.

Unimperator, may your timely and invaluable battlefield updates (across board – Ukraine, Gaza, wherever) never delay or cease until this rampaging Hegemon US Empire and all her vassals/proxies around the world are brought to their knees by ‘tough, courageous and decisive diplomatic and kinetic power projections’ of brave leaders who dares to confront head-on neocolonialism, exploitation, oppression, and domination mindset of the now expiring Unipolar world order.

You indeed deserve an MOA medal of Honour. B, our host, must consider such award here monthly or yearly as reward for decorum, hardwork, and informed commentary and analysis of topics raised in this widely-read forum – MOA.

Posted by: cegnoveltyesq | Oct 21 2025 16:53 utc | 29

Julian MacFarlane about Ukraine atm.:
 
When you have lost the women, you have lost the war! (referring to the press gangs)
 
How woke it is going to be in the west – remember this.

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Oct 21 2025 16:53 utc | 30

The summit berween the great Vladimir Putin and trump is off, offical.
 
Planned for next week in Budapest,  both sides decided it’s a none starter.

Posted by: Mark2 | Oct 21 2025 16:56 utc | 31

“Next time in Moscow,” like VVP said.
 
Minister Lavrov was intent on addressing the “root causes” w/ his American interlocutors, but his American interlocutors, led by Sec Rubio, claimed instead that Russian aggression is the root cause of the war—and they’re standing pat w/ that.  As a consequence,  DJT’s Deep State handlers called the mtg off.   
 
Meanwhile, Russia is powerfully mulching the AFU at every critical nexus point.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Oct 21 2025 17:00 utc | 32

There is no overlap between the Russian position in the SMO and the US/EU position in Project Ukraine: most EU states will never accept a neutral Ukraine. 
 
Moreover, the U.S. neocons will not let DJT cut a deal w/ Russia over Ukraine’s head.
 
It is said that DJT could stop the U.S.’s involvement in the war today—-no intel, no weapons support, no military contractors, no sale of weapons to the EU for Ukraine—-but this is not true.
 
The neocons will not allow DJT to threaten Ukraine w/ halting U.S. intel, because they, the U.S. neocons, will override DJT’s efforts to do so. (Lindsey Graham has already reminded DJT that he has at least 80 votes in the senate.)   The neocons will use that as leverage, perhaps even impeaching him, should he, DJT, not do his bidding.
 
This new tact—-turning the “root causes” on Russia by insisting that the root causes are a result of Russian aggression—is a way to box VVP and Lavrov in, at least according to the illogical logic of the U.S.
 
DJT will ship Tomahawks to Kiev shortly.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Oct 21 2025 17:09 utc | 33

The US (=> USuk-isr) with its now totally subservient EU Vassals are determined to do anything at all to ‘attack’, ‘weaken’, ‘diminish’, ‘challenge’, etc. Russia and to continue doing so under practically any circumstances. 
 
Which means the complete sacrifice of Urkaine as a ‘proxy’ which nobody cares about (some mild interest in ressources in the Donbass are of no account), it is all no matter, as long as the ‘war’ continues and Russians are killed, even if the numbers are not great, to provoke Putin, harm, sting, in any way, the Russian Federation. (See also events in Georgia, Moldova, and the madness in the Baltics …) 
 
Putin offers an ‘off ramp’ to the crazies, it has to be done, he can’t refuse to do it.  He does this over and over again, and is met with some understanding or capitulation (Trump, limping things along) to see that all go underwater again, and again…
 
Napoleon and Hitler weren’t very succesfull heh I’m no historian, but this won’t end well. 

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 21 2025 17:15 utc | 34

Why should calling for a ceasefire be construed as a surrender?  At many points, this website has predicted the war will keep going.  Can we contrast that with all the posts that insist that Ukraine’s fall is “imminent”?

Posted by: Inka1969 | Oct 21 2025 17:25 utc | 35

but this won’t end well. 
Posted by: Noirette | Oct 21 2025 17:15 utc | 34
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Oct 21 2025 17:09 utc | 33
 
If my count is right, DJT already folded twice – the B2 backtrack vs Iran, and the Tomahoax backtrack. I’m afraid there are very strong delusions about a winnable nuclear war quite close to him. So the open question is how bad this will “end”.

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Oct 21 2025 17:26 utc | 36

DJT will ship Tomahawks to Kiev shortly.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Oct 21 2025 17:09 utc | 33
We can hope.  It looked like Trump was fulfilling his role as Putin’s lapdog by refusing the Tomahawks to Zelenskyy.  But it would be good if he went through one of his swingbacks.  A swing back might be coming now that Putin’s planned meeting to make Trump kowtow to him has apparently fallen through.

Posted by: Inka1969 | Oct 21 2025 17:28 utc | 37

re: Root Causes ?
 
Lavrov means rollback of NATO membership to the 1996 members. as promised by the West Not one inch forward 

Posted by: exile | Oct 21 2025 17:31 utc | 38

Oh no. No more spitting llamas.

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Oct 21 2025 17:32 utc | 39

1] “Russia is powerfully mulching the AFU at every critical nexus point”  – Steel P  32
 
2] “DJT could stop the U.S.’s involvement in the war today…not true…neocons will not allow DJT to threaten Ukraine [they] will override DJT’s efforts to do so…perhaps even impeaching him” – Steel P  33
 
To 1]; Sadly true but, for the most part the soldiers being “mulched” are being “mulched” by today’s Waffen SS of Galicia who doing an ethnic-cleansing of ex-ukrainia on the Russ’s dime.
 
To 2] Sadly true but…well, there are no buts about it, them there’s the cards.  The simplistic answers ideologues offer are unworkable in the real world.  This is true of “left” and “right”. 
 
The only way for their to be peace, as opposed to a pause in hostilities, is for the Russ is to slaughter the Galician Waffen SS.  For that to happen the Russ have to get far beyond the front lines and do as the Soviets did in WWII, sift through their prisoners, segregate and liquidate those who are Waffen SS followers.  They don’t have to stay in Galicia, that would be stupid but, they need to get to today’s Waffen SS of  Galicia.  This “mulching” business leaves the Waffen SS largely untouched…I don’t care how hard cheerleaders pump their pom-poms, that is the reality of the situation.  Whenever they chose, the Waffen SS will surrender and end this war but, they won’t chose to end this war until they are the majority of the casualties…we are a long way from that outcome.

Posted by: S Brennan | Oct 21 2025 17:34 utc | 40

Global South are really starting to get their act together.
 
https://moneyontheleft.org/2025/09/02/the-new-postcolonial-economics-with-fadhel-kaboub-new-art-transcript/
 
Decolonising their universities is always a good start and so refreshing to see. Long may it continue.
 
 

Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Oct 21 2025 17:34 utc | 41

Lavrov means rollback of NATO membership to the 1996 members. as promised by the West Not one inch forward 
 
Posted by: exile | Oct 21 2025 17:31 utc | 38
There’s just one problem with that story- it’s a lie. I’m sure if Lavrov demanded a NATO rollback Rubio would be happy to talk about Russian bad faith. As it is, both sides are still having respectful discussions. 

Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Oct 21 2025 17:40 utc | 42

Posted by: S Brennan | Oct 21 2025 17:34 utc | 40
When you look at the targets of the SMO – the fine print of any peace treaty will boil down to unconditional surrender. And I’m sure, FSB will not stop denazification being partly finished. Not this time. Russia knows her history.

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Oct 21 2025 17:49 utc | 43

And I’m sure, FSB will not stop denazification being partly finished. Not this time. Russia knows her history.
Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Oct 21 2025 17:49 utc | 43
What finished?  That will be as “finished” as Iraq’s WMD’s were “found”.

Posted by: Inka1969 | Oct 21 2025 17:52 utc | 44

MI-6’s new Chief is Ukrainian, the granddaughter of Galicia’s Waffen SS commander, known as the butcher, she promises to increase the level of sabotage in eastern Europe as well as trying to “restore-balance” in eastern Europe by reviving the English-Ottoman-axis.  “My..my..haven’t we been a busy bee“?
 
Explosions rocked two refineries processing Russian oil in the EU
 
Hungary’s largest and most modern oil refinery, in Százhalombatta, which processes Russian oil delivered via the Druzhba pipeline, caught fire, the fire started after an explosion at the AV3 unit. The cause of the accident is currently under investigation…by “coincidental coincidence,” the incidents at Russian oil facilities occurred precisely when the EU leadership is actively trying to restrict energy imports from Russia…against this backdrop targeted sabotage…seems entirely logical
https://en.topwar.ru/272573-v-evrope-progremeli-vzryvy-na-dvuh-npz-pererabatyvajuschih-rossijskuju-neft.html

Posted by: S Brennan | Oct 21 2025 17:52 utc | 45

Posted by: S Brennan | Oct 21 2025 17:52 utc | 45
Only piracy and terrorism left. UK started with it, they will go down with it.

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Oct 21 2025 17:57 utc | 46

As long as there is a threat of NATO outliers intercepting Putin official aircraft the summit in Hungary will not occur.
A better choice will be for the location to be moved to somewhere in Siberia, easily reachable from Alaska and a return visit by DJT.
Poland and other supporters of Kieve Naziland made threats in order to KO the summit, call their bluff and move it to Siberia.

Posted by: tobias cole | Oct 21 2025 17:59 utc | 47

An immediate ceasefire is just a ploy to make Putin look like the villain and quickly build up troops and military forces during a possible pause. The West may sound different, but it means the same thing as before.If Putin were to agree to this, the war would go on forever because nothing would change. He has no choice but to continue; a “partial victory” would be death by instalments for Russia.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

Posted by: smartfox | Oct 21 2025 17:59 utc | 48

Comment 7 by Jane.My guess is that interconnectors won’t save the day. What is sorely needed is storage capacity, specially in Spain where this years licenses for new PV and Wind turbines have been dramatically reduced, and replaced by new storage facilities, to deal with curtailments when renewables surpass demand. When we talk about batteries 75% of the global market (possibly more) is China. The problem with Europe is that we are unable to develop our own industry… because markets.
Posted by: Ignacio | Oct 21 2025 16:07 utc | 17
===============
Well, thread is about the war, and my comment was about citing a good example of wrong PRIORITIES. Not an invitation to go OT.
However, while we are at it, the report is about the lack of interconnectors, not about batteries. Did you read the whole thing?
Interconnectors are needed to send power from site of generation to site of need. When renewables generation surges, the power has to be distributed in some way to create a base load. But if the grid is inadequate, power generation has to stop.
I don’t think batteries can solve the problem of inadequate national and international grids. Batteries can supply backup in smaller settings. Batteries can only store DC current, whereas grids operate on AC.

Posted by: Jane | Oct 21 2025 18:00 utc | 49

Gaslighting the Lava Flow
West’s war of words cannot halt the slow, inevitable grind of Russian advances. In tandem with China, Moscow is crystallizing an emerging global order, using Western arms lack as its catalyst.
https://www.beyondwasteland.net/p/gaslighting-the-lava-flow

Posted by: KevinB | Oct 21 2025 18:04 utc | 50

Zionist Bibi and Smotrich, Katz and Gvir have no intention of honoring the current ceasefire in Gaza (there is no such ceasefire currently in place in the West Bank or Lebanon or Syria we have noted), so why would anyone expect the Zionist Neo Nazi in the person of Volo Zelenskyy to honor one in the Donbass?
Volo and Petro never honored Minsk I and II or any agreement since the Nazi coup in 2014 (assisted by the CIA and Vicki Nuland and Toni Blinkenskyy and MI6 of course), so why would anyone expect a ceasefire agreement to be honored now?
Not going to happen so its on to Odessa, the sooner the better.

Posted by: tobias cole | Oct 21 2025 18:07 utc | 51

What did the US learn from Korea . . . Vietnam . . . Afghanistan? Nothing whatsoever. And that’s what they’ll learn from this. Posted by: pasha | Oct 21 2025 15:56 utc | 14
But they’ve learned that they can do anything, as long as no coffins come home and the population rebels. Hence the greater repression in Europe than in the USA.

Posted by: smartfox | Oct 21 2025 18:07 utc | 52

Not a strange attack given Nordstream, but interesting timing regarding Hungary, granted this was planned, probably UK, well before the meeting was announced but they could have delayed it. I think Trump is all kayfabe all the time but he might actually be ticked off at the UK/CIA/UKR for this one. Oh, and I think Henry The K was little more than an overrated narcissistic charlatan but he hit the bullseye when he said, “It may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal.” Spivs are ultimately fools but they are observant and shrewd.
 
Romania will take it up the patootie, wonder if Orban will?
 

Explosions occurred on Monday at two oil refineries in Hungary and Romania:
In Hungary, the MOL refinery caught fire, processing mainly Russian oil delivered via the “Druzhba” pipeline.
In southern Romania, an explosion occurred at the Petrotel-Lukoil refinery, operated by the Romanian subsidiary of the Russian company LUKOIL

 

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 21 2025 18:15 utc | 53

EU-NATO Retreats From ‘Ukraine Is Winning’ To Begging For A Ceasefire

 
The are begging for a ceasefire otherwise they will have to bum-rush WW3, not good for people who need to run fast with their shoelaces tied together.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 21 2025 18:21 utc | 54

Lavrov commented on the news about the temporarily postponed meeting with Mark Rubio.
 
Main statements by Lavrov at the press conference after talks with the Ethiopian Foreign Minister:
 
The idea of “immediately stopping” in the context of the conflict in Ukraine means forgetting about the root causes.
 
A ceasefire now would leave a large part of Ukraine under the control of Nazis, going against the agreements between Putin and Trump.
 
Russia adheres to the position on Ukraine reached at the talks between Putin and Trump in Alaska.
 
It was agreed with Rubio to continue phone contacts.
 
Poland’s threats regarding Putin’s plane indicate a readiness to commit terrorist acts.
 
The special operation is achieving its goals and will undoubtedly end successfully.
 
https://t.me/two_majors/61230

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 21 2025 18:28 utc | 55

LightYearsFromHome 53,
 
WOW ! thanks for the info. 

Posted by: exile | Oct 21 2025 18:31 utc | 56

How many times have they tried to freeze this conflict now? 
 
Doesn’t a saying about doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result apply
 
 
 
What is this? About the 7th time that they have tried to freeze this conflict?
 
 Brings to mind a saying about doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
/

Posted by: arby | Oct 21 2025 18:42 utc | 57

OOps, 

Posted by: arby | Oct 21 2025 18:42 utc | 58

Will be ceasefire when all of Ukraine is part of Russia, NATO no longer exists, and all US troops go home.

Posted by: Thurl | Oct 21 2025 18:49 utc | 59

Posted by: arby | Oct 21 2025 18:42 utc | 57
The dishonesty behind makes me angry. Evil. Pure evil.
 
 

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Oct 21 2025 18:50 utc | 60

Here I am again — did you miss me?I have been quietly enjoying your endless debates for a while, and now I am back to bring a little common sense to the discussion.
The nations that make up NATO all enjoy economies far stronger than Russia’s, whose total output barely compares with that of the US state of Texas — even though Russia’s territory is twice as large as the entire United States.
Not a single NATO soldier has lost his life in the war in Ukraine, yet Russia has already sacrificed over a million troops, thousands of tanks, and countless aircraft, ships, and guns.
Ukrainian drone crews often operate from underground shelters, calmly guiding their drones and achieving hundreds of eliminations each, while their Russian counterparts are left with little real satisfaction on the battlefield.
Quite a situation, isn’t it?
After the Cold War ended, the Soviet Union splintered into fifteen separate republics. One wonders how many smaller states might appear if Russia were to lose its present war in Ukraine.
It will be interesting to watch that unfold.
Russia’s response to Ukrainian drones has sometimes involved simply firing machine guns into the air — a strange defence, suggesting that proper anti-air systems or missiles may be in short supply.
At the same time, the country has had to import petrol from its neighbours at enormous expense, while also repairing its damaged refineries and pipelines. Ukraine often strikes those facilities again as soon as the work is done.
Every week, several Russian oil refineries are hit, and drivers face rising fuel prices — a bitter irony they owe to Ukraine’s precision attacks.
If one looked at it cynically, this endless war could seem like a grim cycle in which Russian families continually send their sons to die in Ukraine’s fields, while Ukraine keeps resisting aggression and defending the rest of the world from it.
Quite a thought, isn’t it?
Meanwhile, Belgium — the last major Western government holding out — has finally agreed to let frozen Russian assets be used to fund Ukraine’s defence.
There is a strange kind of justice in seeing Russian money turned into weapons that are now used against Russian forces. The circle, in a way, has closed.

Posted by: Louis | Oct 21 2025 18:53 utc | 61

MI-6’s new Chief is Ukrainian, the granddaughter of Galicia’s Waffen SS commander, known as the butcher, she promises to increase the level of sabotage in eastern Europe as well as trying to “restore-balance” in eastern Europe by reviving the English-Ottoman-axis.  “My..my..haven’t we been a busy bee“? Explosions rocked two refineries processing Russian oil in the EU…..
Posted by: S Brennan | Oct 21 2025 17:52 utc | 45
UK, Ukraine & NATO sending out terrorists to destroy civilian infrastructure is not new. What is new is the extent of Ukraine’s backers’ attacks on civilian targets. 
Makes you wonder what makes the terrorists puppet masters think that Russia (and China, and others) won’t retaliate. When Trump sinks venezuelan boats, when Starmer blows up refineries in Hungary, when Macron hijacks civilian ships in international waters: They basically open the door for anybody else sinking American civilian ships (claiming they “transport drugs”), blow up British refineries (unfortunate accidents) or kidnap french ships (suspected to have aided terrorist activity). Not to forget that the NATO/EU/West – support of Netanjahu blowing up schools and hospitals and journalists and doctors has opened the door for every dictator in the world to do the same.
Justice is blind. What is legal for one person to do is legal for everybody else. You open a door, you can’t close it. Do those goons really want a world where anybody can destroy everybody elses property? There is a reason why hospitals and aid workers got a special status in wars, there is a reason why deliberate attacks on civilian targets were an absolute no-no for hundreds, thousands of years.

Posted by: won | Oct 21 2025 18:58 utc | 62

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Oct 21 2025 17:09 utc | 33
 

The neocons will not allow DJT to threaten Ukraine w/ halting U.S. intel, because they, the U.S. neocons, will override DJT’s efforts to do so. (Lindsey Graham has already reminded DJT that he has at least 80 votes in the senate.)   The neocons will use that as leverage, perhaps even impeaching him, should he, DJT, not do his bidding.

 
As the old joke says, assumes facts not in evidence. For one thing, it is vastly more likely that Lindsey Graham is spouting hot air than he really can command eighty votes—which by the way means Graham supposedly controls Democrat votes? This commenter may be sure they can read the minds of the so-called neocons (still a mystery who they really are) so well they predict what they would do if something unlikely were to pass. I’m not. By the way, I will note that the Senate tries impeachments, it doesn’t vote them. All in all, this sounds like BS spouted by a Trump cultist to explain away Trump’s failure. As ever it”s someone else’s fault.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 21 2025 18:58 utc | 63

Posted by: Louis | Oct 21 2025 18:53 utc | 61
 
 Why are these “winners” of yours asking for a freeze  louder and louder each time?

Posted by: arby | Oct 21 2025 19:01 utc | 64

Welp, the Blob’s eurocuck poodles have been ordered to begin surrender negotiations, obviously. Good. Russia will blow off ceasefire talk, of course, while providing an avenue for the eurocucks to revise their ask.
 
Trump tried financial incentives in Alaska. Russia declined, but they’d be open to these if the eurocucks came out publicly for them. Sanctions, seized assets, the works resolved. It’s been a long, bloody war, and the Russians need economic relief now. 
 
Russians can’t denazify Ukie unless they kill in volume. They won’t. All other goals are in sight though. This could happen quickly. 

Posted by: seer | Oct 21 2025 19:05 utc | 65

Oh-oh-!
 
European countries, together w/ Kiev, are developing a 12-Point Plan to resolve the conflict in Ukraine.  Implementation of the Plan will be monitored by a special council chaired by DJT-?
 
Oh, no
 
 The plan includes security guarantees to Ukraine and its early accession to the EU.
 
12-Point Plan…
 
12-Point Plan…
 
Where have we heard about a 12-Point Plan-?
 
(pause while stroking the chin)
 
Ah, yes-!  Gen Kellogg-!
 
Denied a seat at the table during what’s now being called, by CNN, an “acrimonious” White House mtg w/ Volodymyr, Gen Kellogg can now resurface, with hands clean, since he was not part of the acrimonious mtg, to push & promulgate his 12-Point Plan.
 
Never mind that Russia has so incredibly rejected Gen Kellogg’s ideas that when Witkoff wanted to come to Moscow last June to show everybody in the Kremlin the 12-Point Plan, VVP told Witkoff not to make the trip.
 
Note:  there’s nothing magical about Gen Kellogg’s 12-Point Plan.  It’s simply a tool by which the U.S. neocons and EU warmongers can periodically demonstrate the fraudulence they prefer, which is that Russia refuses to engage in diplomacy.
 
They already know that the 12-Point Plan is unacceptable to Russia, and they know that addressing the “root causes,” for them, is impossible.   In order to damage Russia reputationally, at least this is how their thinking, goes, they can continue to extend the olive branch in the form of an unworkable 12-Point Plan only to have Russia demur again and again and again, proving their fondest estimation of Russia:  recalcitrant, aggressive, insincere.
 
And DJT can monitor the implementation of the Plan via his chairmanship of this extraordinary & special council.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Oct 21 2025 19:07 utc | 66

Posted by: Louis | Oct 21 2025 18:53 utc | 61

The nations that make up NATO all enjoy economies far stronger than Russia’s, whose total output barely compares with that of the US state of Texas — even though Russia’s territory is twice as large as the entire United States.
-Russia 4th largest economy by GDP/PPP, surpassing all Nato states except USA
Not a single NATO soldier has lost his life in the war in Ukraine, yet Russia has already sacrificed over a million troops, thousands of tanks, and countless aircraft, ships, and guns.
-Polish, British, other east Europeans, Colombians etc. now make up a substantial part of the Ukrainian army, which is having diminishing efficiency kidnapping more people from the street, who now regularly beat up or kill TSU agents. Reason for Nato begging for ceasefire is they are seeing things crumble fast which even massive agitprop machine can’t hide except most dimwitted western audience. Masses of NATO state army ejected troops have always been there, witnessed over years
Ukrainian drone crews often operate from underground shelters, calmly guiding their drones and achieving hundreds of eliminations each, while their Russian counterparts are left with little real satisfaction on the battlefield.
-no they don’t, their teams get located and hit all the time with modern triangulation means
After the Cold War ended, the Soviet Union splintered into fifteen separate republics. One wonders how many smaller states might appear if Russia were to lose its present war in Ukraine.
-are you Kaja Kallas? That’s a talking point that was supposed to happen in their sub room-temp IQ minds, but has no basis to happen
Russia’s response to Ukrainian drones has sometimes involved simply firing machine guns into the air — a strange defence, suggesting that proper anti-air systems or missiles may be in short supply.
-29 Patriot PAC systems destroyed, countless of Nasams, all original S-300s, no Ukrainian air defense active anywhere on the front line except for very rare attempts of ambush and even they are located and disposed of quickly.  FAB runs done in a relatively free fashion very close to front. Ukraine shooting down 15% drones and 10% missiles (the slower cruise missile types, ballistic is lower, non at all of hypersonics like Kinzhal because Patriot PAC-3 simply can’t do it)
At the same time, the country has had to import petrol from its neighbours at enormous expense, while also repairing its damaged refineries and pipelines. Ukraine often strikes those facilities again as soon as the work is done.Every week, several Russian oil refineries are hit, and drivers face rising fuel prices
-the wunderwaffe effect of hitting refineries is now effectively over, the minor damages were repaired sometimes in days, sometimes in weeks, the export system is flexible enough to re-direct fuel to domestic markets, no real video evidence of mass queues or shortages or price hikes has been presented
If one looked at it cynically, this endless war could seem like a grim cycle in which Russian families continually send their sons to die in Ukraine’s fields, while Ukraine keeps resisting aggression and defending the rest of the world from it.
-think you got it the wrong way around, ukraine is at 1.7M KIA, Apti Alaudinov claims everyone/thing burned when they come to the front, massive kidnap method based mobilization is a testament of Ukraine’s struggle to obtain manpower. It’s no wonder considering Ukraine has no more artillery, air defense, tanks. They have FPV drones, but so has Russia which is at par or better than Ukraine
Meanwhile, Belgium — the last major Western government holding out — has finally agreed to let frozen Russian assets be used to fund Ukraine’s defence.
There is a strange kind of justice in seeing Russian money turned into weapons that are now used against Russian forces. The circle, in a way, has closed.
-who cares, EU is on its last legs economically, Euro is sinking to the bottom of the sea. Money can’t buy what can’t be manufactured, else prices just inflate 400-1000% like the EU will see. The EU’s mediocre MIC will milk tax payers dry for little gains, while they demolish health and social welfare state leading to mass impoverishment of EU member states.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 21 2025 19:15 utc | 67

Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 21 2025 18:58 utc | 63
 
<<
 
The senate cannot initiate impeachment proceedings; the House does that.
 
The senate will however hold onto their beef, should DJT refuse to comply w/ a vote, should it come to that, for bone-crushing sanctions until such a time that the House swings back toward Dems (could happen in fall 2026) and ride out the final years of DJT’s term w/ articles of impeachment.
 
It is unlikely that the Senate will fall to the Dems in 2026 (unlike the still-iffy House)—so if a Dem House impeaches DJT and hands the impeachment to the Senate, the Senate is likely not to ratify it, like in 2019 and also in 2020.
 
Amazingly, Lindsey Graham does indeed have Dems among the 80 votes he counts in the Senate on issues related to arming Ukraine and also sanctioning Russia.  Keep in mind that the U.S. neocons draw liberally from both political parties.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Oct 21 2025 19:16 utc | 68

b: “After the Alaska summit between the Presidents Trump and Putin the Russian side had agreed to a ceasefire on long range infrastructure targets. Unfortunately Ukraine never held up to it. It continued to attack Russian refineries and electricity station.
 
Although I agree with most of the article, the above paragraph is incorrect. Ukraine would be blind, deaf, mute and without limbs if not for the Western and more importantly US military supplies as well as intel.
 
From US Politico because the FT piece is behind a paywall:On Sunday (October 12th), the Financial Times reported that U.S. intelligence has for months been helping Ukraine strike energy facilities in Russian territory, citing Ukrainian and U.S. officials. This assistance has enabled Ukraine to target Russia’s critical energy infrastructure, driving up energy prices and forcing Russia to reduce its diesel exports, according to the FT report.
It is already sufficient to meet just one condition for the attacks on Russian energy infrastructure to stop: US stops providing intel, US stop providing weapons, Ukrainian fascists stop the launches.

Posted by: xor | Oct 21 2025 19:18 utc | 69

Several thousand active duty sheepdipped NATO personnel have in fact been slaughtered in Ukraine, ‘Louis’, more tellingly the myth of Western superiority has been utterly dispelled. Remember that tabk that ‘sunk’ in  polish bog? The helicopter and swimming accidents?
Enjoy living in your fantasy world, you might find it starts to close in on you after a while. 

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Oct 21 2025 19:19 utc | 70

They’re just pretending they want a ceasefire, to look good and manipulate Trump.
The nato and eu nations couldn’t care less what’s left of ukraine after, all they want is to use it up to soften Russia for further pressures.  And maybe to wait it out and see if future Russian leadership is more pliable. 
The Ukrainians can’t quit even if they wanted to, and no one will ask anyways.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Oct 21 2025 19:19 utc | 71

@won | Oct 21 2025 18:58 utc | 62
A blast in rural Tennessee that leveled an explosives plant and was felt for miles around killed 16 people and left no survivors,
https://fortune.com/2025/10/12/factory-munitions-military-explosion-accurate-energetic-systems-army-navy/

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Oct 21 2025 19:23 utc | 72

They’re just pretending they want a ceasefire, to look good and manipulate Trump.The nato and eu nations couldn’t care less what’s left of ukraine after, all they want is to use it up to soften Russia for further pressures.  And maybe to wait it out and see if future Russian leadership is more pliable. The Ukrainians can’t quit even if they wanted to, and no one will ask anyways.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Oct 21 2025 19:19 utc | 71

 
That’s why it’s all more important to comply and destroy every piece of infrastructure that Nato could utilize in Ukraine. Russia care who not appears in the front, for they have superiority in arms, tactics and supplies can effectively kill everything Nato throws at it.
 
It may come as a surprise to many people, but even the defensive line RUAF started preparing when AFU attacked in 2023, was originally prepared to counter a massive Nato army. Indeed, the AFU army attacking in 2023 was the most POWERFUL Nato army in history in all but name, hidden behind Ukrainian flag. The planning, arms, supplies, a lot of the troops, tanks, air defense, was the CREME OF THE CROP of Nato, the most brilliant minds of Nato, best of everything. 
 
And what happened that army is symbolically the same that is already happening to Nato as an organization.

Posted by: unimperator | Oct 21 2025 19:25 utc | 73

Neofeudalfuture@71….leadership more playable, how about Russia gets off the shitter and spits out a mouthful of hazelnuts…….other than killing thousands of Ukie conscripts,  fuck how hard is that, they have done nothing to deter the EU or Nato or a Brexit country, on the contrary, they invited NATO into their back forty, gave up another forty…..him more than forty and are now just retaking areas they held there years ago……lights are still on in Livi and Kiev……did I mention the shitter bit?
 
Cheers M 

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Oct 21 2025 19:28 utc | 74

Louis @ 61

 
There is a strange kind of justice in seeing Russian money turned into weapons that are now used against Russian forces. The circle, in a way, has closed.
 

Tells me the EU is so flat f’ing broke it has hock it’s international banking and investment reputation hoping it can buy it back before the 30 days are up. What’s the total debt of USA + EU + Japan and the rest of the Golden Billion put together w/ respect to GDP? I’m not talking Fed-ECB-BoJ quantitative easing-petrodollar-MMT tricks, I’m talking private sector?  A bi-zillion-gillion dollars? Add in derivative exposure and it what, a peta-exa-sextillion quatloos?
 
As Michael Hudson says, a debt that can’t be repaid, won’t be repaid. There yah go.
 
I know, don’t feed the trolls, but sometimes it’s wicked fun to take candy from a baby.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 21 2025 19:36 utc | 75

In going to make a prediction….
 
The whole Prince Andrew thing is co-ordinated. The Epstein shoe is about to drop. The pissed stained fascist twat won’t survive it and be removed from the Shitehouse.
 
No other reason for Prince Andrew to fall on his sword.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Oct 21 2025 19:38 utc | 76

Posted by: won | Oct 21 2025 18:58 utc | 62

3 killed, 9 injured in explosion at military plant in Russia — 5 hospitalized following explosion at gunpowder plant in Russia’s Bashkortostan region
Elena Teslova | 18.10.2025 — https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/3-killed-9-injured-in-explosion-at-military-plant-in-russia/3720591

Posted by: Nervous German | Oct 21 2025 19:41 utc | 77

@73 unimperator
 
Re: cream of the crop.
 
From what I saw the 2023 offensive was a lot of refurbished Warsaw pact and 1980s nato stuff.  Especially Frontline war materials.  The air defense is absolutely the best they have and it works pretty good, otherwise Russia wouldn’t have spent so much on gliding bombs and newer missles to get through.
 
Not to disrespect 1980s nato stuff either…it works OK and newer stuff in 2023 was mostly artisans, limited production things partly designed to cheat money out of the system.
 
It was therefore the most powerful Nato army, at that time.  There’s some newer stuff now, designed to be mass produced  without so much corruption if there was a genuine emergency.  Which nato isn’t feeling, mostly because Russia has made a conscious effort to keep the war farther east to keep them complacent.
 
So to sum up I agree with you, but 2026 will be much different than 2023, and Russia shouldn’t be complacent.  If Poland entered the war they would have plenty of unpleasant surprises for Russia.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Oct 21 2025 19:42 utc | 78

Lots of doom-posting here today. I see it as a consequence of the Nazi regime propped up by the quislings in the west is actually going down.

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 21 2025 19:43 utc | 79

@74 Sean
 
What the literal fuck?  This is not a serious train of thought, unless it’s drunk posting in which case I sympathize.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Oct 21 2025 19:45 utc | 80

This analysis by Alex Krainer in dialogue with Glenn Diesn is well worth the time, he is a brilliant thinker:
 
Alex Krainer: Europe’s Militarism & Economic Decline

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 21 2025 19:51 utc | 81

Difficult for the West to fight wars if it can’t keep its weapons programmes on track:

What GAO Found
After years of cost growth and schedule delays in its hardware and software modernization effort for the F-35 aircraft, known as Block 4, the Department of Defense (DOD) is in the process of establishing a new major subprogram to help meet cost, schedule, and performance goals. Currently, Block 4 costs are over $6 billion more and completion is at least 5 years later than original estimates. The program plans to reduce the scope of Block 4 to deliver capabilities to the warfighter at a more predictable pace than in the past.
 
Contractors for the program, Lockheed Martin and Pratt & Whitney, continued delivering aircraft and engines late. For instance, in 2024, Lockheed delivered 110 aircraft. All were late by an average of 238 days, up from 61 days in 2023.

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-25-107632

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 21 2025 19:53 utc | 82

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 21 2025 19:36
 
As Michael Hudson says, a debt that can’t be repaid, won’t be repaid. There yah go…
 
What private debt ?
 
Look at Private debt to GDP charts for every country 
 
 
tradingeconomics.com/search.aspx?q=Private%20debt%20to%20GDP
 
 
Nothing like 2008. Going down not up. 
 
 
P.S. Quantative easing isn’t MMT. It’s like saying black is white. 
 
MMT says stop issuing public debt – period as it is a left over from the gold standard and fixed exchange rates. Set rates to zero permanently and kill the FIRE sector at source. Allow households to save in tax free granny bonds instead. Reign in bank lending – period. By sector and industry,  and loans will be only to be given for industrial and job growth  purposes free from speculation behaviour.
 
 
 
As laid out beautifully here….
 
 
https://new-wayland.com/blog/legal_tender_paper/
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Oct 21 2025 19:58 utc | 83

you can trust the folks that worship baal moloch baphomet trust the wondering khazar that call themselves yahoo.you can trust the ashkanazim the nazi  and the communist the b i s bank the black rock the imf and the world bank trust vanguard peter thiel palantir bill gates and monsanto bayer larry fink is your friend 
the chabad are here to help you can trust wall street and the rise of hitler and the bolshevik revolutions 
rely on the empire of the city of london arthur koestlers 13th tribe non semite.
admire the oded yinon plan the. covid lockstep  obey the mosaic law goyim  
for gaza is a method  and the rabbi wants it all.
 
trust the rule of law  cease fire for a little r and r 
regroup
you can trust von der liar and her rotten shield chums
trust the plan 
kill the amalek
claim everything 
call it a hair cut and bail in

Posted by: normal wisdom | Oct 21 2025 20:00 utc | 84

won (62).
 
Yes spot on she was recommend for the job by Mossad – to David Lammy, who appointed her – she worked extensively with Mossad in West Asia and was deeply involved with Palantir and Pegasus.
 
Blaise Metreweli – Wikispooks

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Oct 21 2025 20:07 utc | 85

For instance, in 2024, Lockheed delivered 110 aircraft. All were late by an average of 238 days, up from 61 days in 2023.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Oct 21 2025 19:53 utc | 82

Well, these ain’t the only delays in NATO la-la-land. Nothing works anymore in the West. Can’t even keep the Louvre safe. Print more money! Need more frau in top managment, too!
But… the blame game already begins, sparked by none less than Frau Merkel 😂

Posted by: Nervous German | Oct 21 2025 20:08 utc | 86

@83 clouds of alabama 
 
Can you summarize it?  English law regarding a creditors ability to refuse legal tender is a long winded way to make a point. I’m pretty sure most of my car loans etc, specify fiat money so what’s your point?

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Oct 21 2025 20:10 utc | 87

Repeating the mantra: To the last Ukrainian.

Say, if they are begging for a cease-fire, what happens to the last-Ukrainian? Who is going to shoot this bass-terd? Is he hero-of-the-hour?

You can’t have a cease-fire, and the last-Ukrainian. Mutually exclusive. It’s a zero-sum game. There has to be a loser, and a winner.
What a conundrum!

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Oct 21 2025 20:10 utc | 88

Clouds Of Alabama83

 
The paper concludes that the operational currency of the modern state is not physical legal tender but central bank reserves and commercial bank money, rendering legal tender a concept of largely historical and symbolic significance.

 
I’m not going to read the whole thing but I read that part of the abstract, so, it’s all private sector – even scarier! Think I figured out my Halloween costume this year, BIS General Manager, watch the Zombies, Jasons, and Killer Clowns run! Thanks.
 

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 21 2025 20:12 utc | 89

Russian Deputy FM Ryabkov dismisses Western media claims of ‘problems’ with organizing the Putin–Trump summit as fake news
 
‘Western outlets chase headlines and inventing stories…All work is on track’

https://t.me/IntelRepublic/49776

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 21 2025 20:14 utc | 90

Hungary WARNS against fake news on Putin-Trump summit cancellation
 
FM Szijjarto: ‘MANY’ trying to ‘do everything possible to stop it from happening’
 
Nothing new — ‘pro-war political elite and media ALWAYS behave this way’

https://t.me/rtnews/117237

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 21 2025 20:20 utc | 91

@89 light years from home.
 
You should download the pdf and read more than the abstract.  His point is not at all clear.
 
Also, 
@81 Norwegian 
The guys starts off with neocolonialist that, neocolonialist this.  Which I’ve learned is a big word people say when they don’t really understand stuff.  What’s his point?  Put the link in and give a 1-3 paragraph synopsis of what the beef is, or it’s a lot of hot air too.
 
One hour! Cmon if you watched it I’m sure it doesn’t take an hour of reading to get the gist
 I wonder if you actually watched the whole thing.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Oct 21 2025 20:21 utc | 92

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Oct 21 2025 17:09 utc | 33
Posted by: steven t johnson | Oct 21 2025 18:58 utc | 63
 
I believe the standard to veto the President is 2/3 or 67 votes.  I don’t think our gay friend Graham can master 80 votes in the Senate but with a little bribery and some Jewish lightning , it is possible in my opinion.
 

Posted by: canuk | Oct 21 2025 20:22 utc | 93

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 21 2025 19:36
Steve Keen made himself a career using Private debt to GDP charts.
 
It’s not 2008.
 
He doesn’t understand public debt because he uses conversion theory from gold standard, fixed exchange rate days. We now use floating exchange rate theory and Steve is blind to the buyer and only sees the seller.
 
https://new-wayland.com/blog/ss-capital-flight/
 
 
With floating rates you must have a buyer and a seller. Thus it’s a closed system. All that changes is who now owns them. They didn’t fly into outer space.
 
 
 
 

Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Oct 21 2025 20:22 utc | 94

Nervous German @ 86
 

Well, these ain’t the only delays in NATO la-la-land. Nothing works anymore in the West.

 
Hell of a conundrum, the Scylla and Charybdis of the modern EU, trapped between a giant pile lucre from massive defense cost overruns and long delays and an existential war with the Russian and Chinese hordes coming for the women and children. I bet they go for the lucre!

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Oct 21 2025 20:23 utc | 95

Video clip:
 

More Inconvenient truth.
 
“We gave categorical assurances to Gorbachev that if a United Germany could remain in NATO, NATO would not be moved Eastward”
 
Jack Matlock, US Ambassador to the Soviet Union 1987-1991 speaking 30 years ago

https://t.me/European_dissident/73652

Posted by: Norwegian | Oct 21 2025 20:30 utc | 96

Posted by: snake | Oct 21 2025 16:04 utc | 15
“It has weakened the financial power of the western bankers.”
As in every other conflict the zion bankers are doing fine. Denmark has taken away public Holidays, Merz are lifting the pension age to 73 and are borrowing 1trillon for weapons. Finland and Sweden are building weapons. Norway are redusing their contribution to their pensjon fund with 50% this year, down from 1000 billion to 500 billion. This has been a huge finacial success, and it’s not over.

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Oct 21 2025 20:36 utc | 97

C’mon barflies,
 
Where are all the fools that kept pointing at the 10 year ? On every thread ?
 
Where are they , Using their ancient gold standard, fixed exchange rate type textbooks ?
 
Where are they NOW? – Crickets !!!!!!
 
 
I was the ONLY one at the bar who said the yield would continue to fall because they were cutting rates. It would Trade between a lower range every time they cut rates. 
 
Who was right ?
 
 
P.S I will be right about gold if they keep cutting rates also.
 
They have it all backwards. Using their ancient gold standard, fixed exchange rate type scripts they scream from their pulpits. The sheep have convinced themselves rate cuts are good for gold. Add FOMO to that and what we are witnessing is a feeding frenzy. No other words can describe it.
 
REMEMBER THIS……..
 
The same fools preaching from their ancient texts were selling gold when the FED started hiking rates. They have it backwards.As per usual. They have NEVER understood modern money.
 
Prince Andrew has fallen on his sword. When he could have gotten away with it – No problem at all.
 
The Epstein shoe is about to drop and Trump is guilty.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Posted by: Clouds Of Alabama | Oct 21 2025 20:46 utc | 98

Scanning the news earlier, perhaps yesterday, I did see something about Kiev and Europe putting a ceasefire or ‘peace’ plan to the US.
 
I didn’t bother reading it  but I assume it will have something to do with the meeting being called off.The other thing is, I don’t think there has ever been a formal announcement by the Kremlin that Putin would actual attend a meeting in Hungary.
 
Borrell’s “This will be decideddon the battle field” 
The Ukroids that don’t keep up with what is going on are pure suckers. Now they are slaughtered by the multitude as western cannon fodder. With press gangs now operating in Galicia, even the Bandera nazi’s are being sent to the slaughterhouse. They will be able to take some happy snaps of those flying fabs coming in.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Oct 21 2025 20:51 utc | 99

Explosions at oil refineries in Hungary and Romania: sabotage investigated
Explosions shook Hungarian and Romanian oil refineries on the same day. Investigations into both incidents are ongoing and many circumstances remain unknown.
The first explosion occurred at the Petrotel-Lukoil refinery in Ploiesti, Romania, at about 11:30 a.m. local time on Monday. According to media reports, the explosion occurred in the industrial sewer system, and the hatch of a sewer well was thrown out during repair work. At that time, the refinery’s platform was undergoing a major shutdown for repairs. The Petrotel-Lukoil plant is one of the largest oil refiners in Romania and is owned by the Russian company Lukoil.

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Oct 21 2025 20:52 utc | 100