Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 8, 2025
Ukraine’s Victory Redefined

In November 2022 the (former) President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelenski published a 10 point 'peace plan'.

It included:

5. Restoring Ukraine's territorial integrity and Russia reaffirming it according the U.N. Charter, which Zelenskiy said is "not up to negotiations".

6. Withdrawal of Russian troops and cessation of hostilities, restoration of Ukraine's state borders with Russia.

10. Confirmation of the war's end, including a document signed by the involved parties.

In September 2024 Zelenski raised the curtain of his Victory Plan for Ukraine. As I wrote at that time:

The 'victory plan' is not about a real plan for Ukraine's action but a list of demands towards the 'western' supporters of Ukraine.

The theory in Kiev is that a fulfillment of these demands will allow Ukraine to win the war and to press Russian into accepting Ukraine's 10 point 'peace plan'.

As explained by a Zelinski advisor:

A source close to Zelensky told the Kyiv Independent that the "victory plan" aims "to create such conditions and such an atmosphere that Russia will no longer be able to ignore the peace formula and the peace summit."

"The problem is, to get to that point where we have any sort of peace negotiations, Russia must feel like they're going to lose, and we are not there yet," Rep. Jimmy Panetta, a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee in Congress, told the Kyiv Independent.

"I hope part of this victory plan is how we can shape battlefield conditions to reach that point," said Panetta, who met Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials in Kyiv last weekend.

I commented that:

The 'victory plan' requests are of course outrageous and delusional and have little to no chance to be fulfilled.

Nearly a year later the delusional demands of the 10 points 'peace plan' and the Victory Plan have made room for more realistic expectations. There will be no NATO or EU membership for Ukraine. It will lose a significant part of its land to Russia and will have to settle the war under Russian conditions.

Zelenski seems to now acknowledge that when he redefines what victory means:

Zelenskyy spoke to ABC News Chief Global Affairs Correspondent Martha Raddatz Friday in an interview that aired on ABC News' "This Week" on Sunday.

Asked by Raddatz what victory looks like for his embattled country, Zelenskyy said the survival of Ukraine.

"Putin's goal is to occupy Ukraine," Zelenskyy said.

"[Putin] wants, of course, to occupy us totally. For him, this [is] victory. And until he can do it, the victory is on our side," he said. "So that's why for us to survive is a victory. Because we are surviving with our identity, with our country, with our independence."

There is zero evidence that Putin's, or -more correct- Russia's goal was or is to occupy Ukraine.Russia wants to liberate the Russian population that, since the 1990s, was trapped in east Ukraine. He wants to prevent that Ukraine joins NATO. Neither requires the Russian army to move into the feverish anti-Russia center and western parts of Ukraine.

But it is of course convenient to claim that and to declare victory even after the government has moved to Lviv (aka Lvov, Lemberg) near the Polish border and called it a day.

I just wonder how the population there would react if Zelenski or his successor were then to arrange a well deserved Victory parade.

Comments

Dima said today that Ukrainians were even able to take some Russian forces in the cauldron. But this is an unconfirmed information.
Dima then said later that the Ukrainin front is crumbling.
The same Dima said such different things???

Posted by: vargas | Sep 8 2025 20:11 utc | 101

Posted by: Oui | Sep 8 2025 19:44 utc | 96
Oui et ? Ça va changer quoi ? Crétin croix vé bâton (de flic) va prendre deux mois à nommer quiquin’en veut sa retraite de premier ministre à Paux ou à l’Ile de Ré et ? Ils vont édulcorer le budget de merde ? La belle affaire … le fondé de pouvoir de Rothschild va avoir un prétexte pour passer de 6 à 8% de déficit publique et ça va ramener la Komission et le FMI à Bercy. Elle est belle la bavure pour le deuxième contributeur net au budget de l’EU …
Petit con aura eut ce qu’il voulait : “La France ingouvernable” … quoi de mieux pour justifier une tutelle ?

Posted by: Hiro Masamune | Sep 8 2025 20:13 utc | 102

So peace in Ukraine v.4 now right? Or is it 3?
Bit OT here. My personal space has been invaded by what I’m sure is just a meme about China and its water. Am asking the bar if they got any info on this that doesn’t expose itself as bias in like the 1st paragraph. I’d be interested in what kind of solutions they have come up with, should this turn out to be a real issue and not manufactured for propaganda purpose. Thanks.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 8 2025 20:13 utc | 103

Volodemort Kokainsky is now claiming an Iskander missile hit their parliament building.
Here’s the picture of damage caused by claimed Iskander 450 kg warhead….
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/140332

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 20:31 utc | 104

@ seer | Sep 8 2025 18:29 utc | 80
@ Posted by: steel_porcupine | Sep 8 2025 18:37 utc | 81
Thanks to both, similar perspectives viewed through different lenses. Certainly agree with this

Russia won’t tolerate stray nazis and werewolf attacks. They’d be swift with a violent response

It will be interesting to watch the Western media Wurlitzer over the coming months, just to see if they do start spinning the “Al_Qaeda in Ukraine” meme; there will have to be some serious “memory-holing” of their previous coverage of the emergence of Nazi factions in Ukraine, Peter Hitchens of the British Daily Mail (of all places!) was reporting on this as far back as 2011.
And not to be argumentative against the points in both posts, just tossing the idea out there, the “Blob”/TPTB etc quietly offer the Nazi paramilitaries a couple of $billion to lie low, wind their necks in whilst “victory” is proclaimed, peace prizes awarded and accepted, then, after a suitable period of time, are unleashed as “freedom fighters” trying to overturn a “flawed” peace agreement.
Maybe I’m not cynical enough, but how easy it would be to besmirch, taint and sully a DJT peace prize award by describing the “victory/settlement/agreement” as “flawed”.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 8 2025 20:33 utc | 105

@ John Gilberts | Sep 8 2025 18:55 utc | 85
thanks for carneys e mail as pm.. i just e mailed him…
the difference between a fishmonger and a warmonger? one sells fish and the other war.. carney is a warmonger…

Posted by: james | Sep 8 2025 20:33 utc | 106

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 8 2025 17:32 utc | 69
Agreed. The loss of Colonel Lang’s site with all those archives is a grievous loss. That’s the internet for you. I wish the Twisted Genius had let readers know about any problems with funding etc, perhaps a crowd funding effort might have helped save the site.

Posted by: morongobill | Sep 8 2025 20:39 utc | 107

France has a large national debt – which is around 87% of GDP.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 8 2025 18:08 utc | 77
Nooooooooooooooooo!
Not 87%……
But 115% !!!!!!!!!!!
https://horloge-de-la-dette-publique.com/dette-publique-france/
What did Lavrov say? Ah yes…
Interests lie in the development of the economy, in solving social problems, and improving the well-being of the population.
In France it is about improving the well being of billionaires.

Posted by: Naive | Sep 8 2025 20:40 utc | 108

More eliminated Nato ‘boots on the ground’.

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Eliminated Ukrainian Foreign Mercenaries.
Based on reports from Reuters, NYT, and Ukrainian officials, a Russian Iskander-M strike on Sept 4 in Chernihiv killed 80+ Ukrainian deminers from the Danish Refugee Council (a humanitarian group) and injured more.
https://x.com/ug_chelsea/status/1965114635994169714

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 20:45 utc | 109

the difference between a fishmonger and a warmonger?

Posted by: james | Sep 8 2025 20:33 utc | 106
The warmonger smells a lot more worse than the fishmonger…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 8 2025 20:49 utc | 110

Dima said today that Ukrainians were even able to take some Russian forces in the cauldron. But this is an unconfirmed information.
Dima then said later that the Ukrainin front is crumbling.
The same Dima said such different things???
Posted by: vargas | Sep 8 2025 20:11 utc | 101
Dima said, Dima Said, Dima said, Dima said
You’re so boring.

Posted by: yo | Sep 8 2025 20:51 utc | 111

French govenment has colapsed, calls for president Macron to go.
Thats worth a new post by b.
Respect to b.

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 8 2025 20:52 utc | 112

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 20:45 utc | 109
Oh no. Not the Danish humanitarians.

Posted by: yo | Sep 8 2025 20:52 utc | 113

Canada is fucked, regardless-I wouldn’t be surprised that Alberta becomes a protectorate of the US in a couple of years..
Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 15:05 utc | 39
I don’t always agree with canuk but when I do he’s right. Helicopter PM is sadly the better of the 2. 100%

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 8 2025 20:55 utc | 114

The tumberlls are rolling, madam geletine soon to follow.
I hear ther’s a mass demo planned in a few days time ! Yeaaa !… by the left.
Smiley face,

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 8 2025 20:59 utc | 115

A British storm shadow missile supposedly hit an apartment building in Donetsk.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 21:06 utc | 116

More poetry for vargas!
Я, пою, качая сына на своих руках:
«Ты расти, как колосочек в синих васильках.
Димабудет первым словом на твоих губах.
Ты поймешь, откуда льётся этот яркий свет.
Ты в тетрадке нарисуешь Димайский портрет.
Ой, бела в садочках вишня, как туман бела.
Жизнь моя, весенней вишней нынче расцвела!
Ой, горит-играет солнце в светлых каплях рос.
Этот свет, тепло и солнце Дима нам принес.»

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 8 2025 21:07 utc | 117

Norwegian @ 28, Passerby @ 47:
Viktor Orban can’t say openly that Hungary would annex Transcarpathia to defend the rights of Hungarians living there.
Romania still has a large population of Hungarians in its northwestern regions. If Hungary were to consider annexing Transcarpathia, Hungarians in NW Romania would do more than sit up and take notice – they might actively want rule from Budapest rather than rule from Bucharest instead.
And the next thing we know, the Balkans become a headache for Brussels to manage with old border and territory disputes rising to the surface again.
At least that should concentrate the minds of Ursula von der Leyen and Kaja Kallas (who believes Germany won World War 2 because the country retained its sovereignty – talk about sheer ignorance!) wonderfully.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Sep 8 2025 21:12 utc | 118

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 8 2025 20:33 utc | 105
.
.
It’s possible the Blob could fund deadend nazis in rump ukie, yes. But they’d be as much a threat to the Blob’s puppets in government. It’d be an ongoing civil war, weakening any Blob strategy. I can’t see any upside for them, which is why I foresee Russia and the Blob collaborating on a nazi pruning. The Blob took their shot, and lost. They won’t be quick to double down with more than words.
And since history repeats, we know Russia will have no qualms about striking savagely at attackers from rump ukie. When the bongs, the frogs and the zionists invaded Egypt in 1956, the Russians used that as a pretext to roll the tanks into Hungary, slaughter thousands and install a more pliable regime. The zionists are today busily slaughtering Gazans, so the pretext is in place for Russian corrections to the ukies if necessary.
We’ll see.

Posted by: seer | Sep 8 2025 21:21 utc | 119

>>> “And the next thing we know, the Balkans become a headache for Brussels to manage with old border and territory disputes rising to the surface again.” <<<
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Sep 8 2025 21:12 utc | 118
.
.
This. And that's part of Russia's strategy to shatter NATO, if the Blob walks into it. They're getting a good head start with the ukie proxy war.

Posted by: seer | Sep 8 2025 21:41 utc | 120

Canada’s Carney For Ukraine – Canadians Not So Much: See responses including Scott Ritter’s below…
https://x.com/MarkJCarney/status/1964772060862816753
Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 8 2025 14:13 utc | 15
That SOB Carney is a Zionist tool- just like the other clowns in our Nazi-loving parliament. This is not CANADA.
When the hell did we sell out to the US and Israel???? I sure as hell have not, nor have my peers.

Posted by: Original Newbie | Sep 8 2025 21:45 utc | 121

A few FAB-3000s dropped into Mirnograd. This is currently taken into cauldron together with Pokrovsk.
https://x.com/SMO_VZ/status/1964825568677114165

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 21:45 utc | 122

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Sep 8 2025 21:12 utc | 118
I hope you’re right. I am originally form Hungary. We lost our biggest cities after Trianon. 2/3rd of our country was lost in an instant.

Posted by: Peter Schmidt | Sep 8 2025 21:56 utc | 123

Several Iskanders hit industrial area in Druzhkovka. Massive fire, black smoke and powerful explosions and secondary detonations heard.
https://x.com/distant_earth83/status/1965158848357974353

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 21:57 utc | 124

canuk | Sep 8 2025 20:06 utc | 100
Currency throughout history has been made from precious metals. Fiat currency seems a relatively recent thing. Australia has a couple of ‘gold’ coins. Aluminium bronze. Similar alloy to that used in ships propellers and does not tarnish.
When I was gold detecting, I scratched up a bit that did not look like a natural nugget. It was in an area that had all been dug by the old boys with picks and shovels. I reckon they must have melted it from fines then lost it. When I found it, it had lain just under the surface for 100 to 150 years. It came out of the ground just as shiny as it would have come out of whatever they used for a crucible.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 8 2025 21:58 utc | 125

Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Sep 8 2025 14:42 utc | 32
>>>
And that c— idiot also managed to turn the BoE up side down.

Posted by: pepe | Sep 8 2025 22:03 utc | 126

When the hell did we sell out to the US and Israel???? I sure as hell have not, nor have my peers.
Posted by: Original Newbie | Sep 8 2025 21:45 utc | 121
Like Australia, you have always been a British colony. Australia gained a tiny bit of domestic autonomy in 1901 but it is a far cry from an independent sovereign nation.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 8 2025 22:04 utc | 127

Macron a banker boy. Merz a banker boy. Carny a banker boy.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 8 2025 22:07 utc | 128

Posted by: ld | Sep 8 2025 19:06 utc | 89
“Chrystia Freeland’s work-husband continuing her Nazi dream of conquering Russia while he’s making billions from his war machine stocks.”
https://thealtworld.com/whitney_webb/continuing-and-outrageous-u-s-meddling-in-the-sovereignty-of-venezuela

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Sep 8 2025 22:07 utc | 129

whatever this means
🇺🇸⚡️🇪🇺 The USA has torn up agreements with the EU on joint efforts to combat “disinformation from Russia, China, and Iran”

Posted by: Jo | Sep 8 2025 22:07 utc | 130

EU and the UK pushing their own ICE targets to Ukraine is a definite possibility. Many birds in 1 stone. Ukraine can’t say no.
It will dilute Nazism in Ukraine but leave it in fragments which is not bad. It will serve as a lesson to other attack dogs.

Posted by: Jason | Sep 8 2025 22:18 utc | 131

Alex Krainer back.in August 2024 posited that UK economy would be the first domino to fall due to debt particularly Ukraine debt tipping the bulk debt over then triggering EU debt failures. Seems the french politicians are ignoring their even worst debt levels and worse productivity in order to play at political gains?
Might shock UK in to some kind of sensibilty but I doubt it.Everyone in Rurope has lost their minds maybe except Belarus Hungary Slovakia.Any news Serbia Moldova????..

Posted by: Jo | Sep 8 2025 22:21 utc | 132

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 20:45 utc | 109
Based on reports from Reuters, NYT, and Ukrainian officials, a Russian Iskander-M strike on Sept 4 in Chernihiv killed 80+ Ukrainian deminers from the Danish Refugee Council (a humanitarian group) and injured more.
https://x.com/ug_chelsea/status/1965114635994169714
This is what was reported in the Norwegian State Media (NRK) Sept 4.
Two Danish Refugee Concil employees was killed, three others was injured in Chernihiv.
https://www.nrk.no/urix/to-ansatte-i-dansk-flyktninghjelp-drept-i-rakettangrep-i-ukraina-1.17555773

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Sep 8 2025 22:24 utc | 133

Taking Odessa and all territory east of it is just fabulous. But it will be nearly impossible and costly to sustain.
Western parts of Ukraine should be weakened to achieve it. Russia has very few options to target these territories. Crossing the Dnipro is a huge challenge.
But if Belarus is dragged into war by Silly Zelly, then a new front can be opened to target western Ukraine. An incursion from the north on its western side will catch Ukraine off guard. Ukraine takes security in these areas as granted. Things may change.

Posted by: Jason | Sep 8 2025 22:26 utc | 134

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 8 2025 20:33 utc | 105
RE: “Maybe I’m not cynical enough, but how easy it would be to besmirch, taint and sully a DJT peace prize award by describing the “victory/settlement/agreement” as “flawed”.”
<<
The peace is besmirched, tainted & sullied going in.
That is Standard Operating Procedure.
But it won’t matter, because the movers & shakers of this new narrative—that Ukraine has actually in fact won the war by denying Russia the annexation of Kiev, Kharkov, Lvov—will so completely and so thoroughly promulgate the word of Zelensky’s victory that no other messaging will break through.
At this point, in other words, the Nobel Peace Prize for DJT is a lock.
Gotta clean up those banderistas, naturally.
But this is unfolding like a Shakespeare play: All’s We;; That Ends Well.
Russia gets its SMO objectives free & clear.
DJT gets his accolades and the ability to strike lucrative deals w/ Russia.
Zelensky can present himself as a winner.
Europe…
Oh, oh.
I look at the ledger of debits & credits regarding Project Ukraine, and when I place my straight edge across the line for Europe, I find…
Is it possible-?
A miscreant & cur of a vassal like Europe receives no scraps-?
Albion and the Gallic rooster are expected to go hungry–?
So loyal, so useful, so lacking in a moral compass.
Someone, anyone, please disabuse me of this.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Sep 8 2025 22:27 utc | 135

@ unimperator | Sep 8 2025 20:45 utc | 109
@ Paul from Norway | Sep 8 2025 22:24 utc | 133
It’s possible those were de-mining volunteers. Who for whatever reason de-mined in Chernigov of all places, using unmarked white vans for transportation. The kind AFU uses for drone strike staging.
Either way, from the AFRF recon footage, it was unlikely to be a whole 80 casualties anyway. So banderites and their handlers lie whichever way you look.

Posted by: boneless | Sep 8 2025 22:29 utc | 136

Russia when it made its move, set out to bleed the Europeans white. All The Russians had to do for that was park themselves in novorossiya and destroy everything that came at them till everything stops coming. An industrial process that gets a bit boring after awhile so I haven’t been reading the Ukraine threads much.
Another from canuk – “Canada is fucked, regardless-I wouldn’t be surprised that Alberta becomes a protectorate of the US in a couple of years.”
Early on in the Trump regime 2.0, I was tossing up whether the Americans would grab Alberta tar or Venezuelan heavy or both. Most of the Alberta tar flow to America anyway so Venezuelan heavy it is. Alberta tar is a low hanging fruit that can be easily picked at any time by the Americans. No doubt it is better owning it than buying it.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 8 2025 22:33 utc | 137

Jason | Sep 8 2025 22:26 utc | 134
It seems Odessa and the oblast in between are now marked on Russian military maps as Russian territory. Perhaps they will launch a bridgehead there but once the Ukroids that point a weapon at Russians have been killed off, it will be a simple walk in walk out type transaction.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 8 2025 22:41 utc | 138

@ boneless | Sep 8 2025 22:29 utc | 136
Whole lot of Georgians volunteering for a Danish “demining operation”.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 8 2025 22:42 utc | 139

How did the bar miss what happened to the coalition of the willing champ Micron? France is set to have its 5th PM in 2 years. All this due to unsustainable economic and military aid to Ukraine. The French simply can’t sustain this loss.
Everyone who lent a helping hand to Ukraine went bust. Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, Boris Johnson, Merkel, Biden, Micron, etc. Erdogan, Trump, etc. will pay the same price.
Don’t help Ukraine in any way not even with the longest barge pole! Ukraine the patched up country with stolen lands of others is cursed.

Posted by: Jason | Sep 8 2025 22:46 utc | 140

malenkov | Sep 8 2025 22:42 utc | 139
Australia sent its american tanks to Ukraine. Over forty of them. They arrived some time ago but have not appeared on the battlefield yet. Plenty of oz taxpayer dollars there the Russians will turn into scrap.
The demining operation. It was on the border.The comedian wants to do another Kursk and the demining operation was picking up their own mines so they would not blow up Australian taxpayer dollars before they got across the border.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 8 2025 22:51 utc | 141

Thanks Norwegian
It warmed my heart to see there are some in Canada with eyes wide open
I was beginning to wonder 🙁
Posted by: ld | Sep 8 2025 18:48 utc | 82
It seems all out political parties are now ‘war parties’…Conservative, Liberals, NDP…
We didn’t see this coming. How in hades did this happen??? Where did these clowns come from????
This is a far cry from representative and good governance…

Posted by: Original Newbie | Sep 8 2025 22:54 utc | 142

Japan is in trouble too. PM about to resign

Posted by: watcher | Sep 8 2025 23:00 utc | 143

@ Jo | Sep 8 2025 22:07 utc | 130 // 132
elliot higgins at bellingcrap must be shaking in his boots, lol.. him, chatham house, bbc and the guardian are all going to have to get very creative with their novichok dispatches…
regarding any shock, there’s nothing that another war, or financial collapse can’t help fix..
@ watcher | Sep 8 2025 23:00 utc | 143
interesting… didn’t know this..

Posted by: james | Sep 8 2025 23:05 utc | 144

@ Peter AU1 | Sep 8 2025 22:51 utc | 141
I question whether the Danish org was really running a demining operation. I suspect that the Russians blasted a bunch of mercenaries.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 8 2025 23:20 utc | 145

The banderites are NEVER going to give up.
They fought an insurgency and nationalist movement against the Austro-Hungarian Empire throughout the 19th century.
They fought the Red Army during the revolution.
They massacred Poles after the nazi occupation.
They fought a CIA backed insurgency against the Soviets after WW2 right up until the 1960’s.
They’ll take it out on any ethnic Russians left in the rump. They’ll fight a CIA/MI-6 supported insurgency using left behind forces regardless of any official US administration Russia policy.
If all else fails they’ll fight each other over football until they find another enemy.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Sep 8 2025 23:45 utc | 146

Zelensky is going Clausewitzian – defining victory in terms of who achieved their political objectives in a conflict – by changing his political objective to ensuring Ukraine’s survival as a ‘sovereign’ states allows him to claim victory just as Stubb, president of Finland, claiming Finland’s survival meant Finland ‘defeated’ the Soviet Union in the Continuation War in 1944, small matter that Stalin had no desire to occupy Finland and had a far bigger fish fry in the Far East – ensuring the United States ‘lost’ China and northern Korea.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Sep 8 2025 23:49 utc | 147

New Bansky mural appears on wall of Royal Court of Justice in London,
BBC.
Sorry i cant link it.
But it’s worth a search / look

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 8 2025 23:50 utc | 148

Zelenski is evidence for multiverse theory. He, like Trump and EuroNATO, live in alternative reality universes where losing is winning and where fantasy overrides rational thought.
I think he is going to have to be physically removed from his current unelected office, and it may very well be done by his own people.

Posted by: George | Sep 8 2025 23:57 utc | 149

“It is looking like the price of gold has gone up a couple hundred bucks per ounce in the past two weeks…..how long would that change take in Roman times?
The shit show continues until it doesn’t..”
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 8 2025 15:41 utc | 48
You have a good point.
The Romans depreciated their currency over time by using less silver and gold in their coin.
The US went totally of the gold standard in 1971, since then printing the dollar nilly willy the Chinese, BRICS seem to be buying and producing gold so the change could come much quicker.
I’m not a prophet (1), I’m just canuk.
1 Editors’ Note; I hate to admit but canuk has been bullish on gold for the last four years.
Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 20:06 utc | 100
Not saying you’re wrong
1619 AD Kipper und Wipper
1200 AD plenty of coin debasement
400 AD same old
Always no money for collapsing powers to finance war
Meanwhile, suggested you take silver when gold was at 100:1 , currently between 85-90 to 1
Meanwhile AFU loses some 1,340 troops along engagement line in past day
Some (limited) details here https://tass.com/politics/2013935
No Marat yet.

Posted by: Newbie | Sep 9 2025 0:11 utc | 150

@ Paul from Norway | Sep 8 2025 22:24 utc | 133
Thank you for posting the links. In the King Chelsea Ug link, check out the helmet worn by the deceased fourth from the bottom, left column (apparently from Belarus, going by the flag); somehow I get the feeling this guy was more accustomed to placing mines, rather than removing them.

Posted by: robjira | Sep 9 2025 0:14 utc | 151

The sanctions have broken the economic backs of major EU countries. French Government has collapsed again. Le Pen is or will be banned from taking part in elections.
Britain looks ripe for a Civil War, US not far behind.
Break Russia? Yeah,nah!

Posted by: Suresh | Sep 9 2025 0:27 utc | 152

@ newbie
Both are good options but gold is better right now. We are end of cycle with massive ongoing money printing. If you look at GFC crisis, because of lack of industrial demand, silver cratered to 50% of its value pre-crash. It recovered but was cheapest right at height of crash when liquidity is needed and industrial demand is low.
The better option is gold currently.
Now, why do I advocate precious metals? It is not because I want to make money speculating. As a bad Catholic, we should abhor making money off nothing.
However, when you have a government making the policy that is destroying the value of the dollar versus gold, then prudently you have no choice but to fly to a functioning savings IN gold.
This has nothing to do with wanting to be rich. This has everything to do with not trusting our elite.
But here’s the rub. We may encounter something so big that all bets are off. In that case, it might have been wise to procure some silver pre-crash.
Anyways, I feel like a scumbag when talking about finances in this time of genocide. But as a father tasked with managing his home, I have to give it some thought. And I truly feel that if everyone went out and bought just a few ounces of silver, it would destroy the US economy and send its military industrial complex into a tailspin. So there’s that, too.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 9 2025 0:31 utc | 153

Every time https://t.me/s/DDGeopolitics is open on the web version, things are going hot
it is open again
Can be ukraine, but likely something else
Meanwhile for ukraine (middle/long term) I’ll call Lyman and Pokrovske… (the latter will need big(ish) arrow)
Now for ukraine redefining whatever… call it whatever you like, buit bite the pillow, RF is coming in hot, hard , and unlubricated…
Now for us sanctions… well RF will have to just mine some more washing machines for chips 😀

Posted by: Newbie | Sep 9 2025 0:31 utc | 154

Posted by: HB_Norica | Sep 8 2025 23:45 utc | 146
————
With what population after the SMO once the best fighting men are dead?
Ukraine is a demographic husk from 53 million in 1991 to 30 million, or less in Kiev controlled areas.

Posted by: Urban Fox | Sep 9 2025 0:31 utc | 155

It seems Odessa and the oblast in between are now marked on Russian military maps as Russian territory. Perhaps they will launch a bridgehead there but once the Ukroids that point a weapon at Russians have been killed off, it will be a simple walk in walk out type transaction.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 8 2025 22:41 utc | 138

According to Russia supporting sources living in Odessa, Ukrainians have already mined many important and historically significant structures in anticipation of the eventual invasion.
This mirrors the pattern of Ukraine’s mentality throughout the entire war; “If we can’t have it, neither can you”. It began in 2014-15. Yanukovych had rewarded constituents in his home district with a new airport in Donetsk. Ukraine made sure it was completely destroyed before they retreated.

Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Sep 9 2025 1:03 utc | 156

With what population after the SMO once the best fighting men are dead?
Posted by: Urban Fox | Sep 9 2025 0:31 utc | 155
______
Some violent acts — some forms of sabotage and terrorism, for instance — don’t require elite training or even physical fitness. (Bandera himself was a pretty miserable specimen.). They don’t even require male gonads or, for that matter, pubescence.

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 9 2025 1:10 utc | 157

Now, why do I advocate precious metals? It is not because I want to make money speculating. As a bad Catholic, we should abhor making money off nothing.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 9 2025 0:31 utc | 153
______
To the extent that gold maintains constant value against the dwindling value of fiat currencies, buying gold is not speculating — as opposed to, say, converting your fiat into “satoshis [sic] invention”.
Anyway, why be more moral than, say, the Vatican Bank?

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 9 2025 1:15 utc | 158

Anyway, why be more moral than, say, the Vatican Bank?
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 9 2025 1:15 utc | 158
______
Or, for that matter, the guy who came up with the Parable of the Talents?

Posted by: malenkov | Sep 9 2025 1:18 utc | 159

malenkov | Sep 8 2025 23:20 utc | 145
In Dier Ezzor the Australians and Danes joined with the US in a mini me coalition of the killing as the ISIS airforce. Now Australia sending the tanks, Danes lifting the mines to clear a path. The Danes will be up to their necks in this.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 9 2025 1:22 utc | 160

It does not matter what Ukrainians want. It is what the English pirates want of Ukrainians -that matters. And it is perpetual war against Russia by Ukrainians youth with no injury to English cowards .
This will go on until Russia gets brain to annihilate England or neuter for ever.

Posted by: Sam | Sep 9 2025 1:28 utc | 161

“jopalolive” ( Sep 8 2025 18:17 utc | 78 ):
Hah. That would make it a…
Zelensky hotpot! :X

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 9 2025 1:38 utc | 162

This post was made for this thread.
I think it makes a very important point.
That needs to be more widely known.
And, it would be interesting to know the legal situation.
WHAT IF THE RUSSIANS HAD CONDUCTED THE COUP IN 2014?
In 2014 the United States (aligned with a faction in the Ukrainian government) conducted a coup in Kiev (to replace the democratically elected Yanukovich government which was considered insufficiently pro-Europe).
Many in Eastern Ukraine rebelled against this coup-government.
A civil war began.
The coup-government claimed authority over all of Ukraine
and called itself “the Ukrainian government”.
The coup-government sent in the military to deal with the eastern rebels.
The media claimed, and still claims, that the U.S. backed coup-government had a “right” to all of Ukraine and they champion (vigorously support) a march to the Russian border.

WHAT IF THE FOLLOWING HAD HAPPENED IN 2014?
In 2014 Russia (aligned with a faction in the Ukrainian government) conducted a coup in Kiev (to replace the Yanukovich government which was considered too pro-Europe).
Many in Western Ukraine rebelled against this coup-government.
A civil war began.
The coup-government claimed authority over all of Ukraine
and called itself “the Ukrainian government”.
The coup-government called in the Russian military to deal with the western rebels.
Of course, to be consistent, the media would have to claim that the Russian backed coup-government had a “right” to all of Ukraine and that they championed a march of the Russian military to the Polish border.

The important point is that statements such as “Ukraine will not give up any of its land,” and “Zelenski Rejects Giving Land” make no sense.
This is because the coup-government, and its successors, never established authority over all of Ukraine.
ANOTHER SCENARIO
What if the Chinese (aligned with a leftist faction in the Ukrainian government) had conducted a coup in Kiev. Would this give them authority over all of Ukraine?
What is the legal situation?

Posted by: John | Sep 9 2025 1:42 utc | 163

welcome back john! we missed you for a few days, lol..

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2025 1:44 utc | 164

@159 malenkov
In this degenerate age, I have thought long and hard about buried savings and investment in an economic reality that shows no signs of rationality nor of working on behalf of the everyday man.
What about savings?
What about teaching children about putting money away for a rainy day or just not impulsively buying the newest video game or LaBuBu they see?
What the hell is so great about the excess production of our morally-retarded age?
Storing savings in the ground and keeping it out of the market is almost certainly more moral than encouraging it by investing, whether speculative or real. Outside of donating to b or tithing to the Catholic Church, I see very little worth investing in.
Perhaps donating your time to noble causes should be the new Parable of Talents.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 9 2025 2:11 utc | 165

To the extent that gold maintains constant value against the dwindling value of fiat currencies, buying gold is not speculating — as opposed to, say, converting your fiat into “satoshis [sic] invention”.
Anyway, why be more moral than, say, the Vatican Bank?
Posted by: malenkov | Sep 9 2025 1:15 utc | 158
What about savings?
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 9 2025 2:11 utc | 165
Let’s take both at the same time, you have a state every decade debases it’s currency by 50% (and both us, uk and all pegged doing the same for 90 years.
Let’s not even talk about debt yet.
If we take world reserves, us has about 7% of (public) gold reserves (half if total) , and issues 70% of the worlds M1. It could redeem only 1 in every 19 coins and banknotes
Forgetting gold reserves per se and using GDP we’d say the usd is 3 (nominal) to 5 times (PPP) overvalued in “real cash” (if we enter higher monetary aggregates you’d use it as tinder)
Now… if trump plays nice china will let the us unwind things gently (as the us did to gb during/after ww2), as they also devalue yuan as not to look too dramatic, after unwinding their usd positions.
And that is the good scenario, worst case , toilet paper.
P.S. Euro, IMHO, magnitudes worse.

Posted by: Newbie | Sep 9 2025 2:40 utc | 166

Perhaps donating your time to noble causes should be the new Parable of Talents.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 9 2025 2:11 utc | 165
It might, with companies crushing wages (but also small business) , makes sense selling as little labor as possible.
But it has little bearing in this thread, lest one say that at the price and little willingness, states might find that drafting you is the most profitable application of your potential. (kiev style)
P.S. Also not on topic, but simplicius should pay royalties to B (payments accepted in sterling, gold, or diamonds only… ok, B might accept some euros for current expenses)
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/trump-pivots-to-the-homeland-neocon

Posted by: Newbie | Sep 9 2025 2:46 utc | 167

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 9 2025 0:31 utc | 153
RE: bullish on Au and willing to give Ag some love
<<
Don't sleep on estate sales, where you can find odd pieces of .995-stamped flatware. Buddies have even picked up a stray sterling butter knife or two @ the local Goodwill store.
My kid brother was saying that, should it come to that, we'll be throwing down a 65 gram fork @ the grocery store's check-stand in order to pay for a couple rib eyes, a radicchio & a bunch of radishes.
The cashier will weigh the fork on a scale & examine the .995 stamp on the reverse side, and ring you up.
No more swiping a magnetic strip.
No more chip cards.
You'll feel the weight of solid metal in your back pocket, where your wallet used to be, and you'll know the value of real money.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Sep 9 2025 2:59 utc | 168

Thx, newbie.
@ steel_porcupine
Let’s bring back the coin purse. Real money on your person is just another tactile subtraction Americans have had to endure alongside the digitization of everything, from money to owning physical media, including magazines and newspapers.
I have a cool, heavy credit card. But I’d rather pay for a tank of gas with 12 mercury dimes.
End o/t sidebar with apologies.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 9 2025 3:40 utc | 169

“New Bansky mural appears on wall of Royal Court of Justice in London,
BBC.
Sorry i cant link it.
But it’s worth a search / look”
Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 8 2025 23:50 utc | 148
Pretty spot on as usual, Keir Starmer’s dystopia.
Link:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgrq0r0y878o

Posted by: George | Sep 9 2025 3:56 utc | 170

The West has lost, I agree, but it won’t ‘fall’ in our lifetimes.
Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 14:31 utc | 26
The Chinese call it garbage time. The time between the government becoming incapable of meaningful action and the time it collapses. Canada and moat of Europe are living in garbage time.

Posted by: team10tim | Sep 9 2025 4:17 utc | 171

@ George | Sep 9 2025 3:56 utc | 170
thanks george and mark2 for bringing that to my attention.. very spot on..

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2025 4:20 utc | 172

In response to

The Chinese call it garbage time. The time between the government becoming incapable of meaningful action and the time it collapses. Canada and moat of Europe are living in garbage time.
Posted by: team10tim | Sep 9 2025 4:17 utc | 171

Garbage time…thanks for that but isn’t the US in garbage time also?….the fish rots from the head, eh?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 9 2025 4:35 utc | 173

Posted by: james | Sep 9 2025 4:20 utc | 172
And like everything else, how fast they acted to cover it up! An obvious truth is just too much to bear these days.

Posted by: George | Sep 9 2025 4:43 utc | 174

The Banksy attempted cover up is pathetic and reminds me of the Wag The Dog movie which all barflies should watch to understand the circus we are observing.
Think of the drugs these current Wag The Dog producers must be taking to come up with the next circus event to respond to the reality response from the last circus event.
What will be the next circus event for Ukraine of note?
I can hear Trump now…..”I got a conditional surrender for Ukraine instead of an unconditional surrender, I should get a Peace Prize!”
Its in the can…./s

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 9 2025 4:53 utc | 175

The Chinese call it garbage time.
Posted by: team10tim | Sep 9 2025 4:17 utc | 171

I wonder what the Chinese call France’s cynical system of disposable Prime Ministers that allows for the Macron Regime to maintain power?

Posted by: too scents | Sep 9 2025 5:01 utc | 176

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 9 2025 4:53 utc | 175
It’s like neo-Puritanism for the richest and most egotistically sensitive face-saving political elites.
Reminds me of the times when they painted loin clothes over naked figures in artworks, like on Michelangelo’s frescoes in the Sistine chapel. Or when they forced Polynesian women in Tahiti to wear Mother Hubbard dresses. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mother_Hubbard_dresses#/media/File:Ariitaimai2.jpg

Posted by: george | Sep 9 2025 5:14 utc | 177

“I wonder what the Chinese call France’s cynical system of disposable Prime Ministers that allows for the Macron Regime to maintain power?”
Posted by: too scents | Sep 9 2025 5:01 utc | 176
疯 狂 的, Fēng kuáng de; Fēng le 疯 了 = Crazy, Mad, Insane

Posted by: George | Sep 9 2025 5:23 utc | 178

In response to

I wonder what the Chinese call France’s cynical system of disposable Prime Ministers that allows for the Macron Regime to maintain power?
Posted by: too scents | Sep 9 2025 5:01 utc | 176

What is the Chinese translation of Rothschild?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 9 2025 5:30 utc | 179

Australia sent its american tanks to Ukraine. Over forty of them. They arrived some time ago but have not appeared on the battlefield yet.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 8 2025 22:51 utc | 141
***************
If reports are correct that the transport ship was sunk, it will be difficult to drive these tanks off the sunken transport vessel -although there may be unsubstantiated rumors that the Americans have been hiding the amphibious Abrams somewhere in the Black Sea…

Posted by: General Factotum | Sep 9 2025 6:02 utc | 180

红 色 的 盾 = Hóng sè de dùn = Red Shield = Rothschild

Posted by: George | Sep 9 2025 6:07 utc | 181

Posted by: General Factotum | Sep 9 2025 6:02 utc | 180
They are the new Australian AUKUS submarines now. I watched the report about the sinking on Youtube. I might still have the link on my old computer since I have changed PCs just recently.

Posted by: George | Sep 9 2025 6:11 utc | 182

Peter AU 1 @ 141:
There have been reports that formerly decommissioned Abrams tanks sent by Australia to Turkey and then transported across the Black Sea on a civilian ship was hit by a Russian missile as soon as the ship entered Ukrainian maritime waters.
60 M-1A1 Abrams tanks lost
Massive Military Cargo Ship Belonging To NATO Member State Sunk By Russian Submarine–Billions of dollars in armaments lost

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Sep 9 2025 6:22 utc | 183

And the next thing we know, the Balkans become a headache for Brussels to manage with old border and territory disputes rising to the surface again.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Sep 8 2025 21:12 utc | 118
That is my opinion too. The Americans are retreating from Europe. And when the Americans are gone from Europe, conflicts which have been suppressed for decades will bloom, all at once.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 9 2025 6:37 utc | 184

General Factotum
Refinnejenna
American submersibles is interesting. The Russians have been hitting Nato hard to prevent the next foray into Russia. The black sea is deep though and no oxygen once past the surface layers. Davy Jones and Neptune are most likely asphyxiated down there from lack of oxygen.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 9 2025 6:38 utc | 185

The banderites are NEVER going to give up.
They fought an insurgency and nationalist movement against the Austro-Hungarian Empire throughout the 19th century.
They fought the Red Army during the revolution.
They massacred Poles after the nazi occupation.
They fought a CIA backed insurgency against the Soviets after WW2 right up until the 1960’s.
They’ll take it out on any ethnic Russians left in the rump. They’ll fight a CIA/MI-6 supported insurgency using left behind forces regardless of any official US administration Russia policy.
If all else fails they’ll fight each other over football until they find another enemy.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Sep 8 2025 23:45 utc | 146
Those banderites are well know through military records, participation in protests around the world, participation in crimes against the people of Donbass and so on. How they will return to cause trouble? You do not need to be able to predict the future to see them ending up in working camps around Yamal peninsula, Amour region, Magadan and other exotic places.
Enough development programs,tax elimination and cheap services can quickly turn native Ukrainians pro-Russian. Modern Germans and Japanese despise their recent past right?

Posted by: 667 | Sep 9 2025 6:56 utc | 186

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Sep 9 2025 6:22 utc | 183
Thanks for putting those links up – I could not find my link I was looking for. It is amazing how Australian media covered this up, they acted and showed pictures that made it look like the tanks had arrived on the Ukrainian docks in Odessa and tried to show it was a great act of Ozzie patriotism helping Ukraine – one wonder’s whose patriotism it was. But we have seen nothing of them on the battle fields.

Posted by: George | Sep 9 2025 6:57 utc | 187

Posted by: Newbie | Sep 9 2025 2:40 utc | 166
In case anyone missed it, Putin’s economic advisor just spilled the beans on the US plan for crypto currency.
He says US plans to transfer all of its debt into a crypto stable coin. Once all US debt is transferred into a stable coin, they will devalue the debt and screw everyone holding crypto currencies.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 9 2025 6:58 utc | 188

@Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 9 2025 4:53 utc | 175
The Banksy attempted cover up is pathetic and reminds me of the Wag The Dog movie which all barflies should watch to understand the circus we are observing.

After the new Banksy was revealed that was mocking the courts for censoring people, the courts censored it by covering it up.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/140329

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 9 2025 7:01 utc | 189

Posted by: George | Sep 9 2025 6:57 utc | 187
Russia periodically hits Odessa and Ochakov docks. Either the Aussie tanks were stashed away in the second line of defense ‘Lwow’ or blown up during unloading process.
Given that the ‘Danish’ ‘humanitarian minesweepers’ were recently blown up in Chernigov, it seems that Natokraine is planning another offensive there. If the Aussie tanks are somewhere, maybe they’ll pop up there. But more likely the Aussie tanks were used up over time, as many Abrams M1 tanks were destroyed over time.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 9 2025 7:01 utc | 190

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 9 2025 7:01 utc | 190
I read that they are weak in the top armour plate as well, so I don’t think they’ll make a whole lot of difference. US Abrams were hardly game changers either as you point out. Shocking fuel guzzlers too, and Russia seems quite intent on wiping out oil refineries on the Donbas side of the Dnipro now to cut off fuel supplies.

Posted by: George | Sep 9 2025 7:40 utc | 191

( en.topwar.ru/270654-hakery-obnarodovali-kartu-s-planom-zapada-po-okkupacii-ukrainy.html )
“KillNet has obtained a document dated April 2025 (…) a detailed plan for the occupation of Ukrainian territory by a foreign military contingent (…) the coalition includes France, Great Britain, Poland and Romania (…) responsible for developing the plan is the former Chief of the General Staff of the French Armed Forces, General Thierry Burkhardt, who left his post in July
(…) the document states that this plan will be approved by Kyiv and agreed upon with Moscow”

Posted by: rk | Sep 9 2025 7:51 utc | 192

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 9 2025 7:01 utc | 190
Posted by: George | Sep 9 2025 6:57 utc | 187
Russia periodically hits Odessa and Ochakov docks. Either the Aussie tanks were stashed away in the second line of defence ‘Lwow’ or blown up during unloading process.
Perhaps they are now rotting on the bottom of the Black Sea, but it really doesn’t matter, since I doubt they would last long anyhow.
Actually, if they did arrive intact in Ukraine I suspect they would have been deployed in Western Ukraine as a “last ditch” contingency against a serious Russian advance. Unloading forty odd tanks at a Polish port would be logistically more sensible and would not be tempting to Mr Iskander or Mr Zircon. But who am I to question the superb planning skills of the NATO war planners?

Posted by: Barrel Brown | Sep 9 2025 8:08 utc | 193

“But who am I to question the superb planning skills of the NATO war planners?”
Posted by: Barrel Brown | Sep 9 2025 8:08 utc | 193
Chuckle chuckle….

Posted by: George | Sep 9 2025 8:23 utc | 194

zeRO is illegitimate. In 2014, there was already a decision by the Constitutional Court of ukraine, which stated:
“The Constitutional Court of Ukraine notes that the provisions of Article 103 of the Constitution and other articles that define the constitutional and legal status of the President of Ukraine do not contain any provisions that would establish a term other than 5 years, regardless of whether the election is regular or extraordinary. Therefore, the 5-year term established by Part 1 of Article 103 of the Constitution is the only constitutionally established term for which the President is elected.”
So the period is a FIXED 5 yr term. Get him out.

Posted by: Ralph | Sep 9 2025 8:55 utc | 195

Off topic… Tannenhouser @103 re: China water issues
Look up ”South–North Water Transfer Project”
Biggest water management project in human history. Ultimately will transfer 45 cubic kilometers of water per year from China’s overly wet South to their overly dry North. First stages of the project are already completed.
Don’t worry about the Chinese. They have been working on it for decades and have the problem under control. If you need to worry about a country with a huge population and a huge water problem then check out India. They are on the edge of unimaginable catastrophe and they haven’t even started serious thought about how to deal with it yet. I don’t even care about India at all and thinking about what they are up against gives me literal nightmares. I guess it’s the same for the Indians which is why they don’t think about the problem and tell themselves it’ll all work out somehow… the Market will fix things when the shit hits the fan.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 9 2025 9:49 utc | 196

t was a great act of Ozzie patriotism helping Ukraine
Posted by: George | Sep 9 2025 6:57 utc | 187

No refunds.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 9 2025 9:59 utc | 197

Don’t worry about the Chinese. They have been working on it for decades and have the problem under control.
Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 9 2025 9:49 utc | 196

Doubt!
I love the Chinese people the same as I love all humanity but it is a grave mistake to challenge Nature. In this respect humanity is bound to always come up short.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines_in_China
History repeats.
Live with Nature instead of against it.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 9 2025 10:11 utc | 198

Re: Demining ?
Retreating militaries lay minefields. They don‘t remove landmines.
One suspects the same individuals trained to clear a minefield are also skilled at laying a minefield

Posted by: Exile | Sep 9 2025 10:17 utc | 199

Posted by: too scents | Sep 9 2025 10:11 utc | 198

Adding …
Internet search has truly been enshitified. The “Red Deer Cave People” were a human subspecies that became extinct in Southern China approximately 12’000 years ago. Apparently due to a drought.
https://www.google.com/search?q=red+dear+cave+famine

Posted by: too scents | Sep 9 2025 10:23 utc | 200