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September 8, 2025
Ukraine’s Victory Redefined

In November 2022 the (former) President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelenski published a 10 point 'peace plan'.

It included:

5. Restoring Ukraine's territorial integrity and Russia reaffirming it according the U.N. Charter, which Zelenskiy said is "not up to negotiations".

6. Withdrawal of Russian troops and cessation of hostilities, restoration of Ukraine's state borders with Russia.
…
10. Confirmation of the war's end, including a document signed by the involved parties.

In September 2024 Zelenski raised the curtain of his Victory Plan for Ukraine. As I wrote at that time:

The 'victory plan' is not about a real plan for Ukraine's action but a list of demands towards the 'western' supporters of Ukraine.

The theory in Kiev is that a fulfillment of these demands will allow Ukraine to win the war and to press Russian into accepting Ukraine's 10 point 'peace plan'.

As explained by a Zelinski advisor:

A source close to Zelensky told the Kyiv Independent that the "victory plan" aims "to create such conditions and such an atmosphere that Russia will no longer be able to ignore the peace formula and the peace summit."
…
"The problem is, to get to that point where we have any sort of peace negotiations, Russia must feel like they're going to lose, and we are not there yet," Rep. Jimmy Panetta, a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee in Congress, told the Kyiv Independent.

"I hope part of this victory plan is how we can shape battlefield conditions to reach that point," said Panetta, who met Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials in Kyiv last weekend.

I commented that:

The 'victory plan' requests are of course outrageous and delusional and have little to no chance to be fulfilled.

Nearly a year later the delusional demands of the 10 points 'peace plan' and the Victory Plan have made room for more realistic expectations. There will be no NATO or EU membership for Ukraine. It will lose a significant part of its land to Russia and will have to settle the war under Russian conditions.

Zelenski seems to now acknowledge that when he redefines what victory means:

Zelenskyy spoke to ABC News Chief Global Affairs Correspondent Martha Raddatz Friday in an interview that aired on ABC News' "This Week" on Sunday.
…
Asked by Raddatz what victory looks like for his embattled country, Zelenskyy said the survival of Ukraine.

"Putin's goal is to occupy Ukraine," Zelenskyy said.

"[Putin] wants, of course, to occupy us totally. For him, this [is] victory. And until he can do it, the victory is on our side," he said. "So that's why for us to survive is a victory. Because we are surviving with our identity, with our country, with our independence."

There is zero evidence that Putin's, or -more correct- Russia's goal was or is to occupy Ukraine.Russia wants to liberate the Russian population that, since the 1990s, was trapped in east Ukraine. He wants to prevent that Ukraine joins NATO. Neither requires the Russian army to move into the feverish anti-Russia center and western parts of Ukraine.

But it is of course convenient to claim that and to declare victory even after the government has moved to Lviv (aka Lvov, Lemberg) near the Polish border and called it a day.

I just wonder how the population there would react if Zelenski or his successor were then to arrange a well deserved Victory parade.

Posted by b on September 8, 2025 at 13:26 UTC | Permalink
Comments

Well written B
👍

Posted by: Gregory Pierce | Sep 8 2025 13:39 utc | 1

I see two possibilities for rump Ukraine. Best case is West abandons them. They will be economically dead. Emigration will continue. When they are sufficiently depressed they will beg Russia to come and preserve their lives.
More likely is morons in the West will imagine rump Ukraine as a fortress. Since they have no substantive military machinery, physical or human, they will build terror networks. Being a terrorist will be the ticket for getting something to eat. It will be a puny terrorism. Eventually Russia will tire of the charade and move to the Polish border.
The main problem is the West is defeated and does not have the cognitive ability to recognize defeat. Especially defeat by untermenschen.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 8 2025 13:41 utc | 2

VVP’s goal was never to occupy Ukraine, never to acquire territory, never to annihilate a “fledgling European democracy”(TM)
Refer to the security requests VVP presented to Collective Biden in December 2021.
Refer to the Istanbul memorandum of early April 2022.
Refer to VVP’s clarifying remarks of 14 June 2024.
These have been Russia’s objectives.
Zelensky’s PR stint courtesy of Radditz on ABC’s Sunday news show was merely to tweak the narrative spin hailing from the U.S./NATO side.
The media still depicts the war in Ukraine as a Russian invasion (w/ no mention of how Russia is actually defending itself from NATO’s provocations), and it still frequently insists that VVP is trying to reassemble the Soviet Union, bit by bit.
The fallacy of this stance is indicative of how little incentive the U.S. and NATO have to inject Project Ukraine w/ even a smidgen of reality, let alone a smidgen.
When they have nothing else, they have narrative.
Narrative cannot stop artillery.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Sep 8 2025 13:44 utc | 3

Ukraine’s future existence will be settled within the Eurasian security arrangements that will be settled by Russia and the Outlaw US Empire–the SMO will only officially end when that occurs. What Zelensky or any other Ukrainian official says is immaterial at this point. The power needing to become rational is the Empire’s Dark State, and that could take several more years as it’s an extremely stubborn creature.
Meanwhile, Lavrov was asked a short question by Pavel Zarubin yesterday:

Question: Should we pay attention to the fact that the West continues to say that today’s meeting (the triple handshake between President of Russia Vladimir Putin, Prime Minister of India Narendra Modi and President of China Xi Jinping) is a kind of demonstration, a signal?
Sergey Lavrov: This is a demonstration that the three great powers representing the three great civilisations are aware of their common interests in a number of areas. This does not mean that everything is 100% identical, but there is a tendency for China, Russia and India to develop their partnership, deriving mutual benefits from areas where we have the same interest.
Interests lie in the development of the economy, in solving social problems, and improving the well-being of the population. All this absolutely fits into the general concept of the RIC Troika, which was predicted by former Russian Foreign Minister Yevgeny Primakov in the mid-1990s. We are currently preparing the next format of the troika, first at the level of foreign ministers. I am sure that we will think about a special summit later.
Question: The image of the “elephant-dragon-bear” appeared.
Sergey Lavrov: “Elephant-dragon-bear” – the animal world is rich. Our three peoples have a rich imagination. They chose the symbols of their nations without any voting, proceeding from life.

The longer the Dark State hesitates, the weaker it will become, and the more Ukraine Russia will obtain.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 8 2025 13:50 utc | 4

So is everyone in agreement that Putin’s doing the best that could be done by anyone else under the circumstances?
Just curious. Haven’t heard any second-guessing/backseat-driving since Late 2023…but things seem to still proceed so slowly.
Not at all “up” on “Ukrainian goings-on” so would love to know what the consensus here is on Putin’s progress or lack thereof.

Posted by: CasualObserver | Sep 8 2025 13:57 utc | 5

There is zero evidence that Putin’s, or -more correct- Russia’s goal was or is to occupy Ukraine.Russia wants to liberate the Russian population that, since the 1990s, was trapped in east Ukraine. He wants to prevent that Ukraine joins NATO. Neither requires the Russian army to move into the feverish anti-Russia center and western parts of Ukraine.

I think this is wrong. Any piece of the Ukraines left outside of complete Russian control will join NATO in a short timeframe. It seems to me this is obvious.
So Russia will occupy the whole of the Ukraines (more likely) or leave a very small statelet under total Russian control in the western parts (less likely).
Zapadnik sentiments in western Ukraine are a minor thing. It can be controlled by normal counter-subversive programs and co-opting parts of the population. It worked like that for decades. It will work even better with more economic resources as Russia has now.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Sep 8 2025 14:00 utc | 6

Re-definitions of victory over time:
2022: ‘Russians are pushed out and Donbass taken, Crimea taken’
2023: ‘Crimea taken, Russians pushed across Kerch strait’
2024: ‘Sudzha supermarket taken, Putin humiliated’
2025: ‘Putin has not taken Tel Aviv or Miami, victory is ours’

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 14:00 utc | 7

I suppose “peace” depends on how much “business” Russia is able to bribe US Trump and his family with.
Other than that, Demilitarization & Denazification are far, far, from an accomplished goal, regardless of occupied territory, the SMO will continue until bribes satisfy US oligarchs.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Sep 8 2025 14:03 utc | 8

… Question: The image of the “elephant-dragon-bear” appeared.
Sergey Lavrov: “Elephant-dragon-bear” – the animal world is rich. Our three peoples have a rich imagination. They chose the symbols of their nations without any voting, proceeding from life…
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 8 2025 13:50 utc | 4
Thanks, karlof1; happy morning! From a rich imagination inspired by a rich history (which every country, large or small has) comes a rich legacy for the people of that country to cherish and build upon.
Large OR small!
Thank you, b.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 8 2025 14:04 utc | 9

Trump has summoned some European leaders to the White House in coming days … one-on-one as individuals. Being swamped by a group is overwhelming and useless.
IMO Zelenskyy and the Azov fascists will never concede territory … another Minsk 3 … position still unacceptable … the interview is a narrative for gullible consumers, the public …. no party ready to accept defeat … boxers hanging in the ropes and the umpire let the bashing continue. Too much hate over many generations …
I Sacrifice My Son to Continue My Father’s War

Posted by: Oui | Sep 8 2025 14:04 utc | 10

There is zero evidence that Putin’s, or -more correct- Russia’s goal was or is to occupy Ukraine. Russia wants to liberate the Russian population that, since the 1990s, was trapped in east Ukraine. He wants to prevent that Ukraine joins NATO.

Well, I guess they’ll take the liberated resources and mineral rights too.
Too bad for the Blackguards of London.

Posted by: Cato the Uncensored | Sep 8 2025 14:07 utc | 11

Note: Moscow‘s official position remains that NATO rollback to 1996 members is a must. The Ukrainian Civil War is a sideshow
Not one inch foreward

Posted by: Exile | Sep 8 2025 14:08 utc | 12

Volo holds no cards……..time to fold them…….and flee to Haifa with his fellow Zionists………
Note that the Zionist now wants to make attendance at the mass of the Russian Orthodox Church illegal…that tells us all we need to know. He is an advocate for the EU agenda of Christian repression.

Posted by: tobias cole | Sep 8 2025 14:12 utc | 13

Johan Kaspar | Sep 8 2025 14:00 utc | 6–
Putin’s presser at Beijing was very specific as to what would occur:

I want to emphasize that we are fighting not so much for territories, but for human rights and for the right of people who live in these territories to speak their own language, to live within the framework of their own culture and traditions that were passed down from previous generations – from their fathers, from grandfathers, and so on. First of all, this is what we are talking about.
And if these people, in the course of electoral democratic procedures, including referendums, expressed their support for being part of the Russian Federation, this opinion should be respected. This is democracy – I want to remind those who forget about it. And, among other things, this is fully in line with international law: I would like to recall the first articles of the Charter [of the Organization] The United Nations, which explicitly states the right of nations to self-determination.
But we don’t link one to the other – territories and security guarantees. Of course, we can say that these are related topics, but we don’t directly link them. This was not a topic discussed during the Anchorage discussion.
As for possible meetings with Mr. Zelensky, I have already spoken about this. In general, I have never ruled out the possibility of such a meeting. Is there any point in these meetings? Let’s see.
According to the Constitution of Ukraine – some people may agree with it, some may not, you just need to read the text carefully – there are no provisions in the Constitution of Ukraine for extending the term of office of the President of Ukraine. If you are elected for a five-year term, and five years have passed, your term of office has ended.
There is a provision according to which elections are not held during martial law. Yes, this is true. However, this does not mean that the president’s powers are extended. Instead, it means that his powers expire, and his rights are transferred to the Speaker of the Rada, including his authority as the Supreme Commander-in-Chief.
What should the current authorities do if they want to be legitimate and fully participate in the settlement process? First of all, they should hold a referendum: according to the Ukrainian Constitution, territorial issues can only be resolved through a referendum, as far as I remember. However, a referendum cannot be held during a state of war, which is also a provision of the Constitution. Therefore, in order to hold a referendum, the state of war must be lifted. Once this is done, elections must be held. This process will continue indefinitely. [My Emphasis]

More followed that can be read at the link. I suggest readers go there and read the entire presser. It’s abundantly clear that Team Putin has decided on the above method for organizing the future of the Ukrainian region.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 8 2025 14:12 utc | 14

Canada’s Carney For Ukraine – Canadians Not So Much: See responses including Scott Ritter’s below…
https://x.com/MarkJCarney/status/1964772060862816753

Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 8 2025 14:13 utc | 15

Gerasimov briefing showed a map of Ukraine without Odessa or Nikoleav ==> https://youtu.be/ZKFt63hP16E?t=751

Posted by: too scents | Sep 8 2025 14:16 utc | 16

Not at all “up” on “Ukrainian goings-on” so would love to know what the consensus here is on Putin’s progress or lack thereof.
Posted by: CasualObserver | Sep 8 2025 13:57 utc | 5
The strategy is based on outdoor fly catcher. Install it in Ukraine they cone like flies to their demise. After a while all clear,install further up and repeat the process.

Posted by: Michael J | Sep 8 2025 14:17 utc | 17

Zelensky is just recycling the old talking point that “Putin lost” because he couldn’t grab all of Ukraine, which the narrative spinners’ claim was his goal all along. It’s just a pathetic attempt to rally the neocon troops and manufacture consent for more war.

Posted by: JohnH | Sep 8 2025 14:18 utc | 18

“….feverish anti-Russia center and western parts of Ukraine…”
Ukrainian nationalism was originally created by the Habsburgs. It is sustained by CIA and MI6. When the money spigot is turned off the nationalism will go away
CIA is black budget and to some extent self-funding. Drugs, counterfeiting, human trafficking. Involvement in mainstream economy. In-Q-Tel. Disciplining them is doubtful. When the effort is wildly disproportionate to the result they might tire of the work. Might. Stirring the pot is their favorite activity.
Emigrés recently have told me the number of Ukrainians becoming rich is so large the cost of the project so far is beyond a trillion. Definitely no real accounting is happening or ever will happen.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 8 2025 14:23 utc | 19

Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 8 2025 14:13 utc | 15
.
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I’m still chuckling that the Blob installed a fucking Bank of England cunt as leaf PM.

Posted by: seer | Sep 8 2025 14:23 utc | 20

The ABC news piece was yet another puff piece from the CIA stooge girl Martha Raddatz. As a fellow Zionist Martha threw Volo softballs questions. It was a joke!
The US and UK MSM is really just an EU propaganda arm. Falling Ukronazi AA missiles are never acknowledged to cause any damage, when most of the apartment block hit are hit by UAF AA missile and AAA gun ordinance.
No mention is ever made of the Odessa massacre or the Maidan Sq coup or the Ukronazi plan to ethnically cleanse the Russian Donbass.

Posted by: tobias cole | Sep 8 2025 14:24 utc | 21

But it is of course convenient to claim that and to declare victory even after the government has moved to Lviv (aka Lvov, Lemberg) near the Polish border and called it a day.
I just wonder how the population there would react if Zelenski or his successor were then to arrange a well deserved Victory parade.

Easy – a Lvov capital of pre-1920s Ukraine means the Nazis have won.
Lvov will celebrate.

Posted by: Michael Droy | Sep 8 2025 14:24 utc | 22

If it is a “victory” as long as Russia doesn’t take Lvov, then why the hell AFU does not retreat behind the Dnepr for a much better defensive position instead of sacrificing generations worth of men for Donbass? A rhetorical question, naturally.

Posted by: boneless | Sep 8 2025 14:28 utc | 23

Zelensky is the go-to pitchman for Stabilizing The Narrative.
Sitting opposite Radditz on her Sunday Morning show, his purpose was to keep the media-mesmerism suitably fortified.
He patched a few cracks, spackled over a scrape or two and accentuated areas of note.
The content of the interview, non-nutritive essentially, had a late-summer low-news-cycle feel of treading water.
Matters are worsening.
One wonders how thinly spun this narrative can become.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Sep 8 2025 14:29 utc | 24

Someone I can’t recall who commented on a social media platform – that Ukraine, will eventually fall into three categories, in the East the Russian Sphere, in the centre the Demilitarised Zone and to the West, the European Western leaning part of Ukraine, that sounds like a likely outcome to me at least.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 8 2025 14:30 utc | 25

“The main problem is the West is defeated and does not have the cognitive ability to recognize defeat. Especially defeat by untermenschen.”
Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 8 2025 13:41 utc | 2
The Roman Empire was defeated in 376 AD at the Battle of Adrianople-yet it took a spasmodic 100 years till Rome actually fell.
The West has lost, I agree, but it won’t ‘fall’ in our lifetimes.

Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 14:31 utc | 26

I think its beginning to dawn on some Ukrainians that victory, against Russia is not going to happen – but would Putin even wat to negotiate – with Zelensky who isn’t even the elected head of Ukraine, I think not.
“The Russian Armed Forces outmatch Kiev’s army in both manpower and equipment, Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief Aleksandr Syrsky has said.
His remarks come after months of Ukrainian setbacks on the front lines and mounting struggles to replenish the ranks, with the country’s leader, Vladimir Zelensky, accused of dragging out peace efforts by insisting on Western-backed security guarantees.
In a Telegram post on Monday outlining the situation on the front line, Syrsky said August was a difficult month for Ukraine, acknowledging that Russian troops prevailed in all key areas.
“August 2025 was a month of great trials for our troops,” Syrsky wrote. “ The enemy has a three-fold advantage in troops and means, and in the main areas of concentration of their forces outnumber us four to six times.”
The general said Kiev’s main efforts are currently focused on holding back Russian advances in the Limansky, Dobropolsky, Pokrovsky, and Novopavlovsky areas, which he described as “the most threatening.””

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 8 2025 14:33 utc | 27

@Republicofscotland | Sep 8 2025 14:30 utc | 25
I suppose Poland, Slovakia and Hungary have some suggestions.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 8 2025 14:34 utc | 28

Talk of NATO Troops in Ukraine A ‘Sham Debate’ – Kiev’s UN Envoy
https://www.rt.com/russia/624275-melnik-nato-troops-ukraine/
“The deployment proposal is intended to butter up Donald Trump as the EU has nothing else to offer, Andrey Melnik has claimed…”
See Scott Ritter’s response to Coalition of the Willing member Canada’s Carney cant @ #15

Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 8 2025 14:36 utc | 29

yet it took a spasmodic 100 years till Rome actually fell.
Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 14:31 utc | 26
—
Rome didn’t have electronic markets.

Posted by: too scents | Sep 8 2025 14:37 utc | 30

Norwegian (28).
Yes If you are alluding to Poland and Hungary wishing to take part of Ukraine’s territory – yes I think they’d like that, not so sure about Slovakia wanting the same though.
But if I’m way off the mark please let me know thanks.
“The Slovak Defense Minister Robert Kaliňák has suggested that Ukraine must give up part of its territory to end the war against Ukraine and reach a truce.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 8 2025 14:42 utc | 31

I’m still chuckling that the Blob installed a fucking Bank of England cunt as leaf PM.
Posted by: seer | Sep 8 2025 14:23 utc | 20

He was Goldman Sachs and Bank of Canada before becoming BoE and WEF.
I’m thinking he now has regrets about taking the PM job. Much easier to be a behind the scenes string puller with no accountability than constantly in the spotlight.
A snap no-confidence vote and election could seal his fate and get rid of the useless Liberal Cabinet at the same time.

Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Sep 8 2025 14:42 utc | 32

it is unfortunate that instead of having an honest broker in power in the ukraine, they have a front man and a con man who excels at deceitfulness.. and as b points out – he is no longer in power, but i suppose the uk-usa and friends haven’t come up with any alternative…
this bullshit about russia wants a land grab is so off the charts insane, it isn’t worth addressing, but i will.. russia – the largest country in the world needs more land, lolol.. you read it here first on moa, lol… i guess the cocaine or pot is good in kiev..
and what is a zelensky advisor quoting “Rep. Jimmy Panetta, a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee in Congress” all about?? who the fuck cares what some asshole in the usa gov’t says at this point??

Posted by: james | Sep 8 2025 14:42 utc | 33

>>> “Matters are worsening.
One wonders how thinly spun this narrative can become.” <<<
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Sep 8 2025 14:29 utc | 24
.
.
I suspect Lavrov and Putin are generous and smart enough to give the Blob and ukies a fig leaf of "victory". The fools who can't see through that are writeoffs anyway, and Russia would certainly get what they need in the deal.
Still a ways to go though, and as long as the Blob is negotiating through the media, I'd let them carry on, while keeping up the pressure.

Posted by: seer | Sep 8 2025 14:53 utc | 34

Reportedly 70 Nato ‘advisors’ dead after missile strikes on AFU bases in Odessa region. Guess there will be only boots left from the boots-on-the-ground of coalition of the willing.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 14:58 utc | 35

Ukraine’s envoy to the UN, is probably speaking the truth here – of course there’s not a blink of an eye that Ukraine is a Neo-Nazi dictatorship from the UN, nor that the Zio-Nazi regime is allowed to attend the UN as well – the UN is not fit for purpose.
“Debates in Europe about deploying troops from NATO countries to Ukraine are largely a ploy to win favor with US President Donald Trump, Kiev’s envoy to the United Nations, Andrey Melnik, said in an interview published on Sunday.
Moscow has ruled out any foreign military presence in Ukraine as part of a peace settlement. Speaking to Germany’s Stern magazine, Melnik dismissed the Western discussions as largely symbolic.
“Unfortunately, at the moment, this is a sham debate,” he said. “No German politician can seriously commit 5,000 or 10,000 soldiers” to Ukraine when there is no clear mandate for such a mission, he added.
“One reason the Europeans are bringing these troops into play is probably that they have little to offer Donald Trump in order to protect their own interests,” the diplomat stated.
Melnik noted that European NATO states have opted not to negotiate directly with Russia. With Trump pushing for a resolution, they can “at best ride along on this train and only try to cushion the situation.””

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 8 2025 15:00 utc | 36

A state machine:

Trump has only three states:
✔️ Waiting to talk to Putin
✔️ Talking to Putin
✔️ Telling how he talked to Putin

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/140311

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 8 2025 15:01 utc | 37

“I’m still chuckling that the Blob installed a fucking Bank of England cunt as leaf PM.
Posted by: seer | Sep 8 2025 14:23 utc | 20
Kindly please only employ the descriptor, ‘ cunt’, to persons that have them; the only exception would be a Trans who had had their penis removed.
Thanks .
However I agree with you that Carnage is a full fledged creepy WEFer who should be ‘shot and pissed’ on

Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 15:01 utc | 38

“A snap no-confidence vote and election could seal his fate and get rid of the useless Liberal Cabinet at the same time.”
Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Sep 8 2025 14:42 utc | 32
The problem is that Pollivere [sic], the Conservative leader , is more pro Israel and pro Ukrainian than Carnage.
Canada is fucked, regardless-I wouldn’t be surprised that Alberta becomes a protectorate of the US in a couple of years..

Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 15:05 utc | 39

Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 15:01 utc | 38
.
.
Kindly leave my name out of your posts, troll.

Posted by: seer | Sep 8 2025 15:08 utc | 40

I see no scenario where a pro western government is installed in Lvov or any other part of Ukraine for that matter, as part of a peace agreement with Russia. Not a chance Russia would sign up to that, any more than they’d sign up to western troops in any part of Ukraine at all (a ruse which they’ve already ruled completely out of court)
So while Putin won’t send troops to western Ukraine he will damn well insist that region is at least somewhat pro Russian in its behaviours. anything less than that will result in terrorism for the newly acquired territories amd therefore unacceptable

Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 8 2025 15:10 utc | 41

If the demographics of the Ukraine are truly as suggested – ie mostly made up of women and elderly, then the idea of giving a democratic vote to the people is a non-starter: they will vote for Russian pensions rather than worthless, hyperinflated Hryvna social payments. The ex-ukranian expat population will probably do the same, assuming the want to ever return. Given a choice, only a diehard nationalist would vote to be poor and limited in opportunity, as opposed to being part of all of Russia, one might think.
Post war, if Europe stops its payments to the Ukraine then the Ukraine will fold instantly. If it doesn’t stop its payments to the Ukraine, will the EU fold? Support the Ukraine, or have a health care system – you can’t have both…austerity etc.
Decisions, decisions…

Posted by: Occasional poster | Sep 8 2025 15:10 utc | 42

“yet it took a spasmodic 100 years till Rome actually fell.”
Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 14:31 utc | 26
—
“Rome didn’t have electronic markets.”
Posted by: too scents | Sep 8 2025 14:37 utc | 30
A valid point.
On the other hand, One could look at the UK [distinct from the City of London which is supra national] that took the final pill in 1956 during the Suez crisis.
In 2025 it has been invaded , has no borders, its bond yields the highest in the Western World, a joke of a government,it will need to tap the IMF -it has indeed fallen.
That took 70 years (Kondratieff cycle) with electronic markets.
Time will tell

Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 15:12 utc | 43

Civilians killed by operation Barbarossa is put at 17 million. German living space – the land of the eastern slavs, the primary victims. The war machine that rolled over all of Europe with ease, the hammer and sickle going up on the Reichstag was paid for with blood and lots of it.
The rise of Bandera nazism from Galicia under anglo european nurturing. Stupid people. They will now pay with blood till they discard that rubbish.
A few years back, I wanted to find out more about the ancient history of Odessa. youtube results were filled with young women advertising there wares and looking for a foreign sugar daddy. The ‘revolution of dignity’ we are told.
Putin wont allow the military to kill the comedian. That is something the Ukrainians must do. Until they do that, the men will die like flies on the battlefield and their women will populate the brothels of Europe.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Sep 8 2025 15:15 utc | 44

Today’s Crooke-Judge Nap chat echoes my earlier comment. Also noted was the recent demise of yet more NATO troops within Ukraine–they’ve been there since the 2014 Coup!! The key point made during the chat and somewhat in Crooke’s SCF essay is BRICS/SCO is ready for whatever escalation is made by the Dark State. Indeed, Crooke in the opening 12 minutes informs us of doings that came out of SCO Summit that were not made public yet are crucial. It’s also clear that the racists within Team Trump have complicated its policy objectives, particularly regarding India.
There remains at least 60 more days-worth of decent fighting weather in Ukraine before Fall and Winter weather set-in and impact the drone front. That change will greatly favor Russia since it has great superiority in ground forces. Kupyansk looks mostly deserted from the videos I saw yesterday. Other areas are also on the cusp of being snuffed off. 800+ drones and missiles were tossed into Ukraine on Sunday. Yet the front seems very distant to Zelensky. He’ll be in Lvov by 31 December.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 8 2025 15:23 utc | 45

Hmm maybe I misunderstand but I disagree with b on various things. I’ve only looked at a few comments and some of them seem/are similar to what I want to say.
Maybe I’m just stating the obvious, and not very well, currently extremely tired. I hope the point comes across regardless; it is about how difficult the challenge is and about what might help solve it (I don’t have any new ideas about that at all).
Ex-“Ukraine” is already de facto “in” NATO considering how almost all of NATO is supporting it to extreme levels similar to (or maybe beyond?) a maximal implementation of NATO’s article 5 except for on a few accounts (and maybe not to the extent I imply; there’s a morass of unknowns as well as all kinds of publicly announced deals of various sorts, often conflicting or overlapping):
· Fewer NATO troops in ex-“Ukraine” than might be likely under article 5.
· Fighting mostly constrained to within ex-“Ukraine” and along its borders.
· Fewer or no US guarantees.
· Possibly a more unclear nuclear weapons situation.
· No or less formal legal structures?
But everything else… (or did I miss something?).
So does this not mean that Russia is forced to in fact take all of ex-“Ukraine”?
Considering how nazism or some kind of very strong echo of it survived and then was nurtured back into influence in Ukraine (and —denied or not— among the political class in the rest of Europe) despite decades of Ukraine being a part of Soviet Union (and nazis being the cheap baddies in western culture) the chances of it now disappearing or wilting seems highly unlikely considering the current amount of support in the form of money and weapons and political capital, or at least certainly if there is no direct and very strong continuous Russian influence.
Again does this not mean that Russia is forced to in fact take all of ex-“Ukraine”?
Plenty of handwaving on both sides/all around/everywhere on this one?
Also Russia most likely has concluded that the war against itself will continue even after all of ex-“Ukraine” has been pacified. From that point of view “going slow” becomes a strategic example of efficiency and shaping the future war.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 8 2025 15:28 utc | 46

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 8 2025 14:34 utc | 28
IIRC, Hungarian PM Victor Orban talks about protecting the rights of ethnic Hungarians in Ukraine, but stops short of saying Hungary should annex Transcarpathia.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 8 2025 15:30 utc | 47

A great posting b, thanks again
In response to
”
yet it took a spasmodic 100 years till Rome actually fell.
Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 14:31 utc | 26
—
Rome didn’t have electronic markets.
Posted by: too scents | Sep 8 2025 14:37 utc | 30
”
It is looking like the price of gold has gone up a couple hundred bucks per ounce in the past two weeks…..how long would that change take in Roman times?
The shit show continues until it doesn’t

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 8 2025 15:41 utc | 48

@Passerby | Sep 8 2025 15:30 utc | 47
I think that is compatible with “suggestions”, yes. This was also the position of Russia in 2014 regarding protecting the rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine …

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 8 2025 15:43 utc | 49

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 8 2025 15:43 utc | 49
Apples and oranges I’m afraid. Hungary has neither the military nor political muscle required to intercede on the behalf of an oppressed group not directly within its own territory

Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 8 2025 15:56 utc | 50

Thank you for your latest, Mr. b!
I was a bit stressed when I couldn’t access MoA the other day.
Whew!
Shoutout to the barstools.
Perhaps the Victory Rally would resemble this photo from – Collaboration – from Interactive Lviv
I was trying to find the archival footage to that infamous meet and greet of Einsadzguppen OUN-B in Lemberg Lviv Lvov. It has been scrubbed. But I stumbled across this little ditty:
Марширують добровольці | Song of the Ukrainian SS
I really hope that this website can be kept old school. I have read the discussions about the Typepad thing.
Much love to the MoA community.

Posted by: lex talionis | Sep 8 2025 16:07 utc | 51

“Nearly a year later since the repudiation of DNC-neocons at the ballot box in Nov 2024, the delusional demands…have made room for more realistic expectations”
B, I added some “agency” as to the cause, under Sullivan/Blinken’s administration the US-checkbook was wide open, not so now.
==================================
“I suppose Poland, Slovakia and Hungary have some suggestions”
– Norwegian 28
As the “Hyena of Europe” Poland may try to take territory it once stole back by force. If so..meh…heyenas are used to day old kills and eating spoiled meat. Not sure if they would be working for or against Blackrock on this…it could be entertaining to watch Langley wrestle Warsaw.
But it is very much in Russia’s interests to see Slovakia and Hungary have the fullest measure of their lands restored and then some so that they extend to the edge of Transnistria. In this manner Russian Oil and gas pipelines can be secured and Slovakia and Hungary have access to the sea through Odessa and can not be strangled by Ursula Von der Lederhosen’s Nazification Program.

Posted by: S Brennan | Sep 8 2025 16:10 utc | 52

Putin should suggest going back to 1914 borders.

Posted by: Bilejones | Sep 8 2025 16:19 utc | 53

I’m still waiting for Ukraine to liberate Bakhmut and two other cities, guess that’s the Godot offensive.

Posted by: Milites | Sep 8 2025 16:31 utc | 54

While not a fan of “denazification” in general terms because how are you going implement that, what are the metrics for something like that? However, a thought tickled me, what if the rump state of ex-ukrainia/Galicia were to become an EU-member and be forced to accept all the Muslim refugees now flooding Europe? Currently, mass immigration is being used by rulers to destroy any cultural unity of a nation-state so that it can be pillaged by globalists…what is the goal was adjusted slightly to just destroy the Galician culture?
…😄…😆…🤣

Posted by: S Brennan | Sep 8 2025 16:32 utc | 55

On the question of the future of remnant Ukraine there’s never been any doubt about that since 2022. It will be neutralised so that it can no longer be used as a NATO attack dog.
The “How” is still unclear. Maybe even the Russians don’t know yet. If they have to occupy right up to the NATO border to stop the “attack dog” use of remnant Ukraine they’ll do so. But they don’t want to have to do that.
That’s why the state of public opinion in remnant Ukraine – closely monitored by Jeremy Rhymings-Lang and others here – is so important. If would be far better for the Russians and Ukrainians both if remnant Ukraine, even in the Western oblasts, were to neutralise itself rather than be forced to neutralise under Russian occupation.
In practical terms “neutralisation” means not allowing NATO to use remnant Ukraine for “look no hands” missile and drone attacks, nor to run sabotage and assassination missions out of Ukraine into Russia. It’s also difficult to see this war ending without the collaborator monuments coming down and without the school curriculum being changed: I doubt the Russians will wish to see Banderite ideology being inculcated next door any longer.
Is all that too big an ask? Could a new government for remnant Ukraine implement those conditions? If not, I suppose it’ll be a Russian occupation unwanted by both sides.

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 8 2025 16:48 utc | 56

Apparently Putin has obtained a trade and investment treaty with the United Arab Emirates (UAE) which includes 64 Emirati economic sectors in which Russian owned businesses can participate (R&D, ship and aircraft repair, rail transport, computer services, legal services, banks, healthcare institutions, and news agencies) in UAE special economic zones.
If true, I think those hoping to see the RF fold soon may be disappointed.

Posted by: snake | Sep 8 2025 16:53 utc | 57

It seems that EU and Zelensky are in a negotiating spiral where-in:
– EU threatens to give them justification to keep fighting
– Zelensky threatens to recognize that essentially all is lost
It is a coalition of the skeptical (and retarded).
Seems that UK believes that Zaluzny is the man to keep it going.

Posted by: jared | Sep 8 2025 16:54 utc | 58

Selensky and his european backers overlook two critical factors:
1. All their plans depend on America doing all the work and
2. America, now turned mercenary providing services for money, will likely, like all mercenaries, sell their services to the highest bidder. Which won’t be Ukraine & EU for much longer. Russia has energy, minerals & frozen assets to trade, Trump wants energy, minerals and access to Russia’s frozen assets. Do the math.

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 8 2025 16:59 utc | 59

#14 thanks for the link karlof.

Posted by: annie | Sep 8 2025 16:59 utc | 60

Posted by: Marvin | Sep 8 2025 16:59 utc | 59
Ursula VDL’s recent trade ‘deal’ with Trump is very indicative of the weak position of EU elites. It was plain out agreeing to wealth transfer to US.
In the end US won’t have much to give Ukraine, but EU just squandered the rest of its wealth, and will be unable to give anything to Ukraine much longer.
We are heading toward the dissolution of the union. The original purpose of the union was wealth transfer from ‘rich’ parts of the union to poor parts of the union. Now since both the rich and poor parts of the union transfer all their wealth to Ukraine, there is no longer any purpose maintaining the EU.

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 17:02 utc | 61

I believe it is in Canada’s strategic interests to keep the US engaged in Ukraine ( best money we ever spent ) . Unfortunately it is likely also in Canada’s interests to mire the US in a conflict with Venezuela .
A decade ago when Canada was trying to develop the Northern Gateway pipeline to the BC coast under the conservative government of Stephen Harper one of his ministers wrote to me explaining it was a nation building project just like the Canada Pacific Railroad . He also said mentioned when the Northern Gateway was completed the bitumen ( mostly for road work in China ) would be sold to China in yuan bypassing the US dollar . Canadians were shocked to hear the Harper government believed this project failed due to US NGO influence peddling.
Carny is now championing upgrading port facilities such as in the Hudson Bay which would open Alberta’s energy products to the energy hungry EU . The industry would likely have to invest – as Russian industry has – into icebreakers to export the products year round . Canada has 18 icebreaker – 2 under construction – and has 2nd largest fleet in the world next to Russia . Canada is positioning itself as an Arctic power aligning itself with the European Arctic states. I like Mark Carney . As a banker he is well equipped to finance big infrastructure projects . He is working to develop Canadian export markets away from traditional US market . Russian energy exports heading to China and not the EU is music to Carney’s ear . Ports , icebreakers , infrastructure that Canada is lacking will be constructed with Canadian steel no longer sold in the US market . Trump is making Canada great again .
A reminder to the barflies the Alberta government spent a hefty sum of taxpayers money to build the Keystone XL pipeline to the US border a few years ago only to be cancelled on the US side by Joe Biden . Trump of course supported Keystone XL with all his might but it appears Canada has being quietly dismantling Keystone XL to be used somewhere else.

Posted by: Cheryl | Sep 8 2025 17:02 utc | 62

It seems also that the EU feels that they have not lost as long as they continue proposing further measures.
They fear the reality of silence – such that their own words would echo back to them.
Mercouris is losing patience – says Kallas has set a new standard for performance as a diplomat.

Posted by: jared | Sep 8 2025 17:10 utc | 63

Posted by b on September 8, 2025 at 13:26 UTC | Permalink

I just wonder how the population there would react if Zelenski or his successor were then to arrange a well deserved Victory parade.

In order to declare it a “Victory”, the current Z regime, oligarchs, and Nazis will remain in power; if these guys fall, the successive regime will blame the former regime for mistakes, calling it Z’s f**k up and nobody gets a parade.
So, assuming Z & Co remain in power, the citizens of Ukraine will likely be too afraid to squabble openly about the name of the parade. They’ll be content enough to have peace, and they’ll just go along, pretending Ukraine has snatched Victory out of the jaws of death itself – very dramatic, very patriotic stuff. I mean, what else are they going to do? Rise up against “Fearless Leader, Hero of Ukraina, Saint of Kiev, Slayer of Putin, Greatest Artist of the Motherland”? (or do Ukrainians call it Fatherland?). They’re too chicken to rise up even for breakfast, let alone against the system. Many of them will hope to flee Ukraine, so no point in attracting the attention of the secret police and get themselves disappeared like it was “Busification-2024” all over again.
It will be a patriotic Victory parade and everybody will love it – or else.

Posted by: Spiridon | Sep 8 2025 17:10 utc | 64

At this point, victory for Zelinsky is being able to remain among the living with his wealth intact. The guy does not speak for a single Ukrainian, not even the Nazis, at this point.
He’s a cheap hustler who rode Imperialism’s idiotic plans against Russia. An accidental figure in history. Nothing more.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 8 2025 17:12 utc | 65

If true, I think those hoping to see the RF fold soon may be disappointed.
Posted by: snake | Sep 8 2025 16:53 utc | 57
#####
Russia, China, and Iran are civilizational states. Trying to take them out is not like invading Cuba or Libya.
They are anti-fragile and resilient.
If humanity is not wiped out, Russia will outlast the entire West.
Russia is “Lindy“. China and Iran, equally so.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 8 2025 17:20 utc | 66

Certainly touching on every aspect of this topic and others, “Humanity is again faced with a choice of peace or war, dialogue or confrontation, and win-win outcomes; or zero-sum games”: “The Post-SCO Summit World comes into sharper focus.”
Perhaps the biggest element is the 100% repudiation being made of the “Rules-based Order” by BRICS and SCO plus their partners and likely most of the Global Majority and the clear effort to make already agreed upon rules the norm for the first time since 1945.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 8 2025 17:24 utc | 67

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 8 2025 14:12 utc | 14
Thank you again, karlof1. I will remind everyone that the rights Putin is describing, for people to have a say in their own national destiny, are ones that in his earliest descriptions of Ukrainian history he has already pointed out were not followed in the different ways in which the state had been ‘cut and polished’. It was always done earlier as the surrounding entities decided it would be. His emphasis on the importance of referendums is not a new one.

Posted by: juliania | Sep 8 2025 17:29 utc | 68

Posted by: fanto | Sep 8 2025 2:29 utc | 167 (earlier thread)
Fanto – replied earlier on a dead thread. It’s probable SST/Turcopolier went down because the subscription wasn’t renewed. I don’t know that for sure but it had happened once before for a short time. Looks like it’s permanent now.
Pity. It was the Colonel “telling the truth as it is given to me to know” and as an acute observer in many spheres, and participant as well, he had a lot of truth to tell. More than anyone I’ve encountered elsewhere. All now lost.

Posted by: English Outsider | Sep 8 2025 17:32 utc | 69

Posted by: seer | Sep 8 2025 14:53 utc | 34
RE: “As long as the Blob is negotiating through the media, I’d let them carry on, while keeping up the pressure.”
<<
Agreed.
With its pitch-man, Zelensky, the Blob is keeping up the pretense while VVP and Sergei Lavrov keep up the pressure.
You mention, too, that VVP and Lavrov might glancingly permit the U.S./NATO a fig-leaf behind which they can claim rhetorical victory.
Zelensky’s narrative plot-twist w/ Radditz on the Sunday show—We’re winning, because Russia hasn’t taken [name the city or oblast]—is the switcheroo on which the end of the conflict can come about.
Because Ukraine has already won, there’s no need any longer for war.
Although untrue, Zelensky’s backers can task him w/ selling this humongous victory through a western media that has already been sprinkling pixie dust on prior long-standing falsehoods.
They’ve done it since 24 February 2022. This won’t be a stretch.
The scam of Ukraine’s *thumping victory* will get handled somewhat as the Mineral Rights Memorandum did, light on details, little probed or analyzed, quickly concluded & then tucked away.
All the target audience will ever know is that Russia lost and Ukraine won.
The nytimes, FT, WaPo, POLITICO, The Economist and AXIOS will boost this truism forever, working into every article they publish about Russia a reminder of how VVP lost the war to Zelensky in 2025.
It’s not capitulation if we say it’s a victory.
Meanwhile, behind the scenes, Russia will quietly go about rebuilding oblasts and implementing the objectives of the SMO—the demilitarization/denazification, restoring the rights of Russian-ethnics/Russian-leaning citizens, protecting the Russian Orthodox church in Ukraine, etc.
If the media in the West don’t report this, it’s not happening, right-?

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Sep 8 2025 17:39 utc | 70

See Scott Ritter’s response to Coalition of the Willing member Canada’s Carney cant @ #15
Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 8 2025 14:36 utc | 29
the comment from Ritter cannot be read if you don’t have an account
you have referred to it twice.
I would love to read it if you would be so kind as to post it.

Posted by: ld | Sep 8 2025 17:56 utc | 71

Posted by: Cheryl | Sep 8 2025 17:02 utc | 62
No shit eh? Who cares about healthcare or housing when there’s $$$$$ to be made cooking the planets atmosphere.
Carney = Harper x 10 in sheep’s clothing.

Posted by: drinky crow | Sep 8 2025 17:58 utc | 72

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 14:58 utc | 35
French, British and Romanian soldiers/instructors.

Posted by: Naive | Sep 8 2025 18:01 utc | 73

@ld | Sep 8 2025 17:56 utc | 71
I didn’t read all, but you can generally replace x.com links to xcancel.com
https://xcancel.com/MarkJCarney/status/1964772060862816753

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 8 2025 18:02 utc | 74

I am glad that only one replied to a new troll!
One too much of course, but please, keep it like that!

Posted by: Naive | Sep 8 2025 18:04 utc | 75

@ steel_porcupine | Sep 8 2025 17:39 utc | 70
All very plausible, however one factor/faction not accounted for is the Nazi paramilitary grouping, the likes of Right Sector, Azov and other lesser-known equivalents, and their reaction to what they could all too easily interpret as a Zelensky sell-out or surrender. In my view they certainly have the potential to derail any pretence by the Kiev junta at claiming “victory”.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 8 2025 18:08 utc | 76

O/T.
Prime Minister Francois Bayrou is ousted, casting doubt over President Emmanuel Macron’s future – Bayrou lost the vote of no confidence, President Emmanuel Macron – now faces a choice between calling a snap election or picking a fifth prime minister, in less than two years.
France has a large national debt – which is around 87% of GDP.
https://commodity.com/data/france/debt-clock/

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 8 2025 18:08 utc | 77

Zelen Tzu: “When your forces are encircled, send your remaining elite troops in to the cauldron”.
Read this elsewhere and thought it darkly funny.

Posted by: jopalolive | Sep 8 2025 18:17 utc | 78

seer@20…..he was a Bank of Canada CEO long before the Queen asked for financial help….they couldn’t find a Brit with enough brains to fake the books……he was given the PMship as a gift for his tireless work on behalf of the Empire…..left them with enough shekels to pester Russia for some time to come, sad for Ukie, much fun in Whitehall…….not sure if the Russians know where England is at this point….
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 8 2025 18:20 utc | 79

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 8 2025 18:08 utc | 76
.
.
I suspect both the Blob and Russia will discourage deadender nazis, after a deal. There will likely be a joint pruning process engaged. The recent murky street hit on that one nazi may have been a precursor and message. Russia will have intel on many targets, and the Blob can see to the pruning.
Russia won’t tolerate stray nazis and werewolf attacks. They’d be swift with a violent response, written into the deal. The Blob needs to bury this disaster as soon as the deal is signed. Ergo, play nice or get pruned, nazis.

Posted by: seer | Sep 8 2025 18:29 utc | 80

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Sep 8 2025 18:08 utc | 76
RE: but the neo-Nazi junta in Ukraine might spoil Zelensky’s thumping capitulation, erm, victory
<<
If the banderistas kick up a ruckus, they'll be transmogrified into enemies of the U.S. and enemies of Zelensky's hard-fought victory. Al Qaeda in Ukraine, in effect.
(And bear in mind that this victory is a sham, merely a fig-leaf way the U.S. can end the war in Ukraine by declaring Zelensky a winner.)
DJT will noisily announce $50mn bounties on the heads of Azov leaders.
The U.S. may even have to team up w/ the Chechen Brigade to eradicate al Qaeda in Ukraine.
Locals in Odessa and Lvov and Kiev and Kharkov will step forward to narc on the Right Sector terrorists.
DJT may announce a summit w/ Kim in order to deploy DPRK troops to annihilate al Qaeda in Ukraine.
More to the point, trouble-making neonazi militia will threaten DJT’s bid to win the Nobel Peace Prize. After DJT has set this victory up so carefully, that can’t stand.
The media will handle this as they handled Saddam Hussein: he was our guy until he suddenly wasn’t our guy.
The media managed a similar approach w/ Noriega in Panama.
Adept at imposing fantasies, the media will have no problem w/ this.
The new narrative will make explicit that the bad hombres had to go in order to safe-guard the victory.
Ultimately, Russia will denazify Ukraine—by getting the U.S. to do it.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Sep 8 2025 18:37 utc | 81

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 8 2025 18:02 utc | 74
Thanks Norwegian
It warmed my heart to see there are some in Canada with eyes wide open
I was beginning to wonder 🙁

Posted by: ld | Sep 8 2025 18:48 utc | 82

Team Putin has decided on the above method for organizing the future of the Ukrainian region.
Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 8 2025 14:12 utc | 14
The Russians have been waiting decades for opportunities to implement referendums.

Posted by: jopalolive | Sep 8 2025 18:51 utc | 83

@77:
the french debt to GDP ratio stands at 116.65%, per your own link.
Read more at: https://commodity.com/data/france/debt-clock/

Posted by: Chrissie | Sep 8 2025 18:52 utc | 84

#71 @ Id re Mark Carney tweeted on Ukraine:
https://x.com/MarkJCarney/status/1964772060862816753
“Russia brutally attacked Ukraine last night…Canada is steadfast in its commitment to the Coalition of the Willing and its willingness to deploy direct and scalable military assistance in support…”
Former UN Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter responded:
https://x.com/RealScottRitter/status/1965000250579681407
“How many Canadian divisions have you allocated for this mission? How are you going to deploy them? How are you going to sustain them?
Sit down and shut up. All you’re doing is artificially prolonging a conflict and killing more Ukrainian soldiers in the process.”
Great questions and correct assessment by Ritter. Your thoughts…?
mark.carney@parl.gc.ca

Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 8 2025 18:55 utc | 85

jopalolive | Sep 8 2025 18:51 utc | 83–
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Your surmise is correct and is even more powerful today than in 2010 thanks to Russia’s resilience, growth and long-term goals. I see Orban’s suggestion as related to such votes.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 8 2025 18:59 utc | 86

It warmed my heart to see there are some in Canada with eyes wide open
I was beginning to wonder 🙁
Posted by: ld | Sep 8 2025 18:48 utc | 82

Carney regularly gets ratioed by Canadians on X. Women and immigrants are the core Liberal voting block in Canada. Which explains why they keep importing them.
Aside from partisan hacks, male Canadians on X tend to be more Conservative leaning, even if they are not party members.

Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Sep 8 2025 19:00 utc | 87

Alexander Mercouris: ‘Zelensky Desperate’
https://www.youtube.com/@AlexMercouris/videos
“Syrsky: Russia’s 3-1 advantage. Biggest offensive coming; Kupiansk about to fall.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 8 2025 19:02 utc | 88

Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 8 2025 18:55 utc | 85
Thanks John
I concur with Ritter
Chrystia Freeland’s work-husband continuing her Nazi dream of conquering Russia while he’s making billions from his war machine stocks.
beggaring and disempowering Canadians as they syphon their last bits before the SHTF and Blackrock gobbles real estate for pennies on the dollar

Posted by: ld | Sep 8 2025 19:06 utc | 89

Yes, well, what Zelensky thinks is of some interest, but his opinion is not very important overall.
The situation is this, WWIII, the redivision of the world, has begun. The US is the declining power whose relative industrial position no longer is sufficient to support its hegemony. It’s primary foe, socialism, seemingly suffered a conclusive defeat with the fall of the USSR. But the US has still lost ground, particularly to PRC. (The US ruling class overall is not deceived by propaganda about how PRC is just another capitalist, even imperialist country, even when it spews out that nonsense itself.) The restoration of empire is being pursued by novel means, hybrid warfare, not least because it is an effort financia and economic warfare, subversion and assassination, and novel political/diplomatic means, with indispensable military force judiciously applied on local scales so as to avoid a general war—which its relative decline makes ever more unsustainable.
What this means in this case, is Ukraine is a local hotspot, a mere proxy war, against Russia, which is itself a target for even more exploitative reign of capital, but as the strategic rear for PRC. (Ideological claptrap about the heartland or other geopolitical superstitions may play a role in the deranged thinking of the chieftains of the empire. A crazy system drives the leaders crazy too.) A so-called peace in Ukraine is not a peace with Russia. What Zelensky says must be weighed in relation to the overall hybrid WWIII and it current expression in war against Russia (and ultimately PRC, DPRK, Cuba, Venezuela and so on, not to mention the class war against the American people as a whole.) Our host likes to support Trump in less obviously servile ways. At this point, there is no genuine evidence suggesting that Trump is seriously pursuing peace with Russia. Nor is there any genuine evidence to believe the Russians, or Putin if you insist on personalizing, are intent on some sort of parody of the 1939 Non-Aggression Pact, where it suddenly switches sides, but this time against socialism (aka PRC.) Putin making a deal with the West would be much more like Vichy France. I will say I believe that the notion that Trump is making peace if he doesn’t directly offer massive sums to the Ukrainians or offer direct US military guarantees somehow counts as a peace program is merely apologetics. Trump shoving the burden to allies he openly treats as the vassals they have been, is not peace.
As for the matter being arbitrated by arms? So far as I can tell, the Russians still do not have the numbers sufficient for massive rapid offensives. The Ukrainians still have no path to victory and are suffering significant attrition, but given the relative lack of Russian numbers and the importance of tactical air (primarily drones) as the decisive arm, rather than infantry much less armor, the inevitable collapse of Ukrainian lines can be whole years in the future. It’s not likely to be tomorrow. Possibility is not probability. There are inevitable distortions in the Russian economy due to the war. As the economic and political pressures induced by these distortions continue, the likelihood of sudden political change in Russia does increase. The oligarchs supposedly tamed by Putin for one will be driven back into the dangers of political intervention I think.
Despite our host’s optimism, I think Zelensky’s words are not even a swallow, much less a spring.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 8 2025 19:12 utc | 90

b writes “even after the government has moved to Lviv.” In Oct. 2015 Neo Nazi party placed 2nd in Lviv; Konotop in Sumy oblast actually elected a Svoboda Mayor in 2015:
1/14/2016, James Carden: “The neo-Nazi Svoboda party won 10 percent of the vote in Kiev and placed second in Lviv:”
“That neo-Nazis (or neo-fascists, if you prefer) are a distinctly minority taste in Western Ukraine, is clear and is not in dispute. Of late, however, there have been troubling signs that they may become a force to be reckoned with. According to The Jerusalem Post, in Ukrainian municipal elections held last October [2015],
the neo-Nazi Svoboda party won 10 percent of the vote in Kiev and placed second in Lviv.
The Svoboda party’s candidate actually won the mayoral election in the city of Konotop.”…”Congress Has Removed a Ban on Funding Neo-Nazis From Its Year-End Spending Bill,” The Nation, James Carden…https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/congress-has-removed-a-ban-on-funding-neo-nazis-from-its-year-end-spending-bill/

Posted by: susan mullen | Sep 8 2025 19:14 utc | 91

War is peace, Volunteers are bussified by TCC, probity is corruption, loosing is wining … George Gehlenskyiwell – 2024.

Posted by: Hiro Masamune | Sep 8 2025 19:20 utc | 92

Gold price is going vertical, even more so in Japanese Yen – does that imply an imploding western empire?

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 19:24 utc | 93

Any news about 250 brits sunk in the black sea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2Dfl3VPFZM
and 30 french taken prisoners
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJnn292rgVw
both from an Italian site.

Posted by: magicmirror | Sep 8 2025 19:30 utc | 94

Hungary has neither the military nor political muscle required to intercede on the behalf of an oppressed group not directly within its own territory
Posted by: Night Tripper | Sep 8 2025 15:56 utc | 50
Hungary has no muscles, no resources, but most important is that they all do what Nato tells them to do. They are very well organized. One of the officials in Poland said a few months ago that they want access to Black Sea. So they want Odessa or part of it, not a few km at their border like most talking heads dream.
And talking about muscle, Russia has no muscle either. If you read the local news you’ll see that Ukr/Nato is hitting Donbass apparently hard with drones and S-S. That after years of smo. The same strategy and same leaders keep waiting for different results.

Posted by: rk | Sep 8 2025 19:42 utc | 95

Re: Republicofscotland #77
A vote of confidence per his own request. 😂 … quitting his job.
Bayrou Est Tombé
https://www.liberation.fr/politique/en-direct-vote-de-confiance-le-premier-jour-du-reste-de-la-vie-de-francois-bayrou-20250908_QTSZXWUJMNBQFIMRVIKHKXURUE/

Posted by: Oui | Sep 8 2025 19:44 utc | 96

Gold price is going vertical, even more so in Japanese Yen – does that imply an imploding western empire?”
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 8 2025 19:24 utc | 93
It implies that all currency fiats are shit (1) and they are all imploding; of course, the Empire has more heft to implode, as the reserve currency, than the vassals.
1. Western Sovereigns have no choice at this juncture but to print fiat to bail them out of debt which , of course cause inflation which causes investors to flee to ‘real’ assets like gold.

Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 19:53 utc | 97

Oui (96).
Macron looks to be in real trouble.
“MACRON, BE IMPEACHED OR RESIGN!”
French National Assembly Deputy Mathilde Panot, from the Far-Left La France Insoumise:
“We are giving Macron two choices. Either he can be impeached or he can resign.””
https://nitter.poast.org/DD_Geopolitics/status/1965110257358962768#m

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 8 2025 19:56 utc | 98

@Republicofscotland | Sep 8 2025 19:56 utc | 98
Thank you for that update. The day that Macron leaves will be important.

Posted by: Norwegian | Sep 8 2025 20:05 utc | 99

“It is looking like the price of gold has gone up a couple hundred bucks per ounce in the past two weeks…..how long would that change take in Roman times?
The shit show continues until it doesn’t..”
Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 8 2025 15:41 utc | 48
You have a good point.
The Romans depreciated their currency over time by using less silver and gold in their coin.
The US went totally of the gold standard in 1971, since then printing the dollar nilly willy the Chinese, BRICS seem to be buying and producing gold so the change could come much quicker.
I’m not a prophet (1), I’m just canuk.
1 Editors’ Note; I hate to admit but canuk has been bullish on gold for the last four years.

Posted by: canuk | Sep 8 2025 20:06 utc | 100

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