News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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September 23, 2025
Ukraine Open Thread 2025-219
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Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 22 2025 6:39 utc | 96
And yet Trump’s being allowed to collapse America, militarily and economically. I think that is weird.
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What you just don’t see LD is that your whole worldview, and most particularly your mantras that “the US is collapsing, the EU is fucked, Israel won’t exist in a few years, yada yada yada” are all rooted in self biases and religious-political delusion. These countries and all their people, are abstractions to you. They are like images on a screen you can shout at from your lounge. You think America is collapsing? Seriously?
Try this little exercise.
Fly into Google Earth. Zoom down to California, fly to say Beverley Hills. Fly around, go to streetview, and drive around these middle class streets. Go to the malls and to the industrial areas and valley fruit producing areas. Fly up to Las Vegas where “national collapse” is far far from anyone’s mind. Then fly over to Texas, visit some oil wells, cattle farms, then to the Florida Keys, look at all the marinas, the boats, all the businesses supporting them. And then tell me that America is about to collapse, that in a few years these places will all be dystopian slums, people broke, homeless, queuing for bread — that Trump or any president or any congress could possibly destroy all that in 4 years.
You see, you throw wishful-thinking catch phrases around as if they are prophetic realities. But they are just your happy fantasies on MoA.
Every nation has a ballast of existence below the surface, called the everyday people and the infrastructure which interconnects them. There is a mass of social inertia which does not shift much from electoral winds. There’s 340 million Americans supporting that culture, that society. But to you they’re just capitalist infidels in your wishful narrative of collapse.
And people say “Ukraine will be no more”. Lol. Ukraine will limp on, a sad, beaten, depopulated society of those left to rebuild their statehood and war damage.
Israel will just build new settlements WHEREVER it wants to, all the way to the Mediterranean Sea. The plan all along, imo.
Europe will still be full of industrious Germans, partying Italians, whinging Brits, demonstrating Frenchmen. The political pendulum will oscillate a bit, back and forth. But nothing will collapse, as you call it.
The dogs bark, the caravan moves on.
The continuity of agenda you and others blather on about is just the survival of the fittest — individuals, corporates, and societies.
Posted by: Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 6:55 utc | 1
Posted by: Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 6:55 utc | 1
Yes and no visitor. I am sure that in 1989 no one expected the collapse of the USSR, so it can happen.
First the US.It does have some looming economic issues and these can lead to sudden collapse, or at least civil unrest. Nothing will happen during Trump’s presidency but when he goes things could change. It is a gun loving society where force is the first choice to resolve issues. Not a good indicator. It is also very divided, racially and politically. However far more likely is simply a decline in economic, diplomatic and military power. It will still stay around, influential but not dominant. It will simply follow the footsteps of Constantinople, Venice, Portugal,Spain, Netherlands, France and Britain, each once having been the big cheese in the western sphere.
European nations will stay on of course too, but probably not the EU, which financially I suspect has become unsustainable. They may be a little poorer and some may become the new Manuel of Fawlty Towers fame, ie a once proud Spaniand serving the once inferior Brits, only this time it may be in china or even Russia or India.
So short of WWIII they will go out “not with a bang but a whimper”
Posted by: watcher | Sep 23 2025 7:46 utc | 2
Will the new “Moon of Alabama” be easier to censor?
Posted by: censorship | Sep 23 2025 7:57 utc | 3
sanctions. Sanctions. SANCTIONS!!!
Chinese cargo ship docks in Russian-occupied Crimea
Heng Yang 9 stops in Ukrainian port of Sevastopol, which has been under western sanctions since 2014
A Chinese cargo ship has visited the Russian-occupied port of Sevastopol in Crimea — making an unprecedented series of stops by a major foreign vessel to one of the Ukrainian ports seized by Russia.
The use of Sevastopol has been barred by western sanctions since 2014, when Russia annexed Crimea. Allies of Kyiv have sought to prevent Moscow from exploiting the occupied regions and third parties from treating the territories as part of Russia.
https://www.ft.com/content/93c21290-7d1c-42bd-b36d-ef4eeafa0107
Meanwhile
Statement Sep 19, 2025 Brussels 3 min read
Statement by President von der Leyen on the 19th package of sanctions against Russia
Unfortunately, over the past month, Russia has shown the full extent of its contempt for diplomacy and international law. It has launched some of the largest-scale drone and missile attacks against Ukraine since the beginning of the war, striking government buildings and civilian homes alike, hitting our EU office in Kyiv, the representation of our Union. The threats to our Union are also rising. In the last two weeks, Russian Shahed drones have violated our Union’s airspace in both Poland and Romania. These are not the actions of someone who wants peace. Again and again, President Putin has escalated. And in response, Europe is increasing its pressure. This is why today I am presenting our 19th package of sanctions.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_25_2138
Posted by: too scents | Sep 23 2025 8:40 utc | 4
Posted by: too scents | Sep 23 2025 8:40 utc | 4
When the pirate state of Britkrainia is deprived of Odessa free trade in Black Sea can continue without hinderence.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2025 8:41 utc | 5
I am sure that in 1989 no one expected the collapse of the USSR, so it can happen.
Posted by: watcher | Sep 23 2025 7:46 utc | 2
Well, very different. USSR was communist, barely above subsistence level for decades. It took decades of decay, corruption, helped along by US military competition into bankrupcy. I’ll bet the CIA saw it coming … if not planned it!
Western liberal capitalist democracies today have so much more to fall through, esp the US, plus all sorts of anti-destruction mechanisms. Look at the 2007> GFC crash. Just a blip really, then business as usual. Look at the depression. They got up again.
I agree that the US is deeply divided and violent. But what unites them is their mythos of invincibility — a very powerful survival force.
My main point was this fantasy, the trite use of the word “collapse”. Slow or fast, I think it’s a wishful dream by those outside looking in, AND fearmongering by the anti-Trumpists.
Predicting collapse is a comforting ideological exageration slung against one’s enemies. “Ukraine is collapsing! Ukraine is collapsing!” for 3 years now. It’ll just end up a moderate injury, not a total collapse.
But I’d argue that Gaza is a mortal collapse … exactly as intended by Nety. In retrospect, imo, Hamas were very very foolish, misguided, underestimated the Zionist resolve, over-estimated Brotherhood support.
Posted by: Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 9:19 utc | 6
@Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 6:55 utc | 1
“Hey you who are fed up by all the bullshit in the world and want change.
Nothing will happen! Nothing! Everything will stay the same!!”
Hah. Ridiculous.
A complete collapse might be improbable. But guys like LoveDonbass nevertheless have a good point even if one is a bit too eager with the predictions. The trajectory is clearly pointing downwards especially for the US. Even if the US might stave off collapse, their standard of living will have to decrease significantly, at the latest when the Dollar priviledge falls.
The West is losing competitiveness comparatively. Improving our standard of living will be anything but a trivial task.
China already has 40% of all industrial production, soon to be 45%. Almost HALF of all industrial production will soon come from China, and that’s everything from producing steel and aluminium, intermediate goods, advanced good like electronics and cars and apparently soon even semiconductors.
Just look at the chart in this UN report here on page 17:
https://www.unido.org/sites/default/files/unido-publications/2024-11/The%20Future%20of%20Industrialization%20-%20Building%20Future-ready%20Industries%20to%20Turn%20Challenges%20into%20Sustainable%20Solutions.pdf
One does not even need to read reports.
How is military industrial production keeping up in the West, huh? The US couldn’t bring down poor Yemen. The One Special Entity in the Middle East ran out of ammunition after 12 days of shooting with Iran. Thinking that the West will continue with business as usual is simply not supported by observable facts.
And Rest-Ukraine will probably end up as a neutered state.
Posted by: Roland | Sep 23 2025 9:44 utc | 7
French troops spotted at Moldovan gas station.
https://x.com/SlavFreeSpirit/status/1970147043784933458
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2025 9:47 utc | 8
If anyone wants to draw analogues to the French occupation of Odessa in 1919, I think France is very much in the same status right now. The home front is in chaos, while French leaders are playing war games far away from home.
I think EU states, if anyone actually commits to fighting will be running away quickly with tail between their legs.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2025 9:50 utc | 9
Federal Gov‘t Insolvency Crisis baked in the cake for 2027. 10 year says so.
Posted by: Exile | Sep 23 2025 10:59 utc | 10
Well the RF has replied to the collective wastes echo chamber hymn singing from the same sheet at the UN as they excuse the entity’s existence and preside over Palestinians ethnic cleansing as their consolation prize for having failed to destroy the RF or take even Crimea.
It addresses the accusations, levels it’s own and signs off with a ‘when will you ever learn fool? ’ He even throws DJT and Vance a bone.
The whole thing is simple to read and not much longer than these paragraphs, which take down the lunatic headless chickens of yurp. Dmitry is a class act nowadays too. When Lavrov and VVP and Maria go to enjoy their well deserved retirement – the RF has such marvels coming through. The collective wastes hopes of blaming it all on poootin and having him out of the way as the magic answer to their centuries of woe is doomed.
Who will tell them?
Dmitry tries:-
‘Statement by First Deputy Permanent Representative Dmitry Polyanskiy at a UNSC Briefing on Alleged Violation of Estonian Airspace
22 September 2025
https://russiaun.ru/en/news/unsc_220925
‘ Europe was synonymous with the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, with progressive thought, culture, and science. Yet, today, that legacy has unfortunately gone, and gone for good. Voltaire, Rousseau, and Kant have been replaced with such figures as von der Leyen, Kallas, Johnson and the like tinpot and blinkered russophobes.
A concerted effort is underway to make the younger generation forget the bitter lessons taught to the predecessors of today’s European integrators – figures like Napoleon and Hitler. Both met their crushing defeat at the hands of our country, and the whole of Europe had to pay a lingering and painful price for that.
Now, any event is immediately interpreted through an anti-Russian lens, and the notion that war with Russia is inevitable is being frantically hammered into the minds of the European public.
…
The way our European neighbors are incriminating themselves is way too conspicuous, it is difficult to even comment on. Any person of sound mind and with a basic grasp of logic would find this situation unacceptable. But when you are being indoctrinated from every screen and social media feed that Russia is your sole enemy, anything becomes believable, and facts and evidence become a mere inconvenience.
…
Frankly speaking, we can only sympathize with our European colleagues. For years, they have been striving to create an “Anti-Russia” on our borders, which is actually what they turned Ukraine into after 2014. But now this project is falling apart at the seams and discrediting itself.
…
they have no idea how to extricate themselves out of this complex situation. As a result, not very creative Eurocrats could come up with nothing better than whipping up anti-Russian hysteria, in the hope that European voters would not notice anything. It is a weird strategy, and, without a doubt, it will backfire.
….
we understand that the hysteria of our European colleagues is to a large extent geared towards bringing the new US administration headed by President Trump back to an anti-Russian course and finally undermining the agreements and understandings reached by the Russian and American presidents in Alaska a month ago.
…
Europe is acting now like an unhinged, paranoid person who is completely incapable of responding to criticism. Nor is it capable of remembering the lessons of history – after all, for the current “cast” of European leaders and Eurocrats, history was “reset to zero” after February 2022, and therefore drawing lessons from the past is something that today’s Europe considers ill manners
… ‘
—————-
In short GFY.
Cry harder.
Losers.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Sep 23 2025 11:05 utc | 11
10/ “Federal Gov‘t Insolvency Crisis baked in the cake for 2027. 10 year says so.”
The FED can just buy newly issued 10-year US bonds at a lower yield of their choice. A one minute job on Excel. The ECB and BOJ have been doing that for long time. In the US, a hard bargain between the slave-owners and the “government of useless eaters”.
Anyway, the election of an expert in multiple bankruptcies is a sure sign that the US ship’s ass is up. Nice propellers you have there. Aren’t they supposed to be under water?
Posted by: Asian Frog | Sep 23 2025 11:20 utc | 12
>>> “I am sure that in 1989 no one expected the collapse of the USSR…” <<<
Posted by: watcher | Sep 23 2025 7:46 utc | 2
.
.
Of course we did. When the Red Army beat to death a score of civilians in Tblisi, you knew it was over. Soon.
It's same as Ukraine today. It'll stop when the people accept that the thugs have gone too far.
The Blob is taking great care to keep the plebs everywhere under control. Events will intervene. They always do.
The thugs have a lot of road to run yet though. Trump shows signs of pulling up the drawbridge, an event which would accelerate matters. But he's just one guy, and one guy can get liquidated.
Posted by: seer | Sep 23 2025 11:25 utc | 13
Trump shows signs of pulling up the drawbridge
Posted by: seer | Sep 23 2025 11:25 utc | 13
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If Trump pulls up the drawbridge how will the courtiers arrive at the ballroom?
Posted by: too scents | Sep 23 2025 11:30 utc | 14
B maybe ask everyone to enter the ip address of the new place with instructions to enter the ip address in the URL position of their browsers. It should take them to the new website.
To avoid a lag in service waiting on DNS to update IP address change barflies might help speed it up by using that IP address instead of the domain name to reach the bar? Just a thought!
Posted by: Roland | Sep 23 2025 9:44 utc | 7
The West is losing competitiveness comparatively. Improving our standard of living will be anything but a trivial task.
<=actually when Wall Street fails, and the GD UK are gone, and the people reverse the 16th amendment to shut down the Federal Reserve.. it will light the burden the every day person has over lawsuits and monopoly powers owners (the too big to fail) intervention. America will respond. Monopoly powers in private hands strangled American ingenuity which was the backbone of American industrial might.
If ever Americans are allowed once again to compete without burden of copyright, patents, trade secret and anti competitive funding by government of governments' favorites I believe Americans will find ways to turn things around.
The too big to fail have controlled the government for far too long. they have captured the government and used it to drain America and to exploit its strengths for private gain.
Monopoly powers have been allowed to exist in private hands and the awesome powers of the USA have been diverted to protect those with the monopoly powers. This created a condition that caused all novel investigation and development to come to a halt. It was not just the deindustrialization that caused this productive low in America, it was that the too big to fail used the government to keep American ingenuity from happening.
If ever Americans find ways to deny monopoly power to exist in private hands there will be no monopolies in America and with no monopolies there will be no too big to fail and little if any voter support for a government which protects, permits or enables monopoly power.
Posted by: snake | Sep 23 2025 12:04 utc | 15
Posted by: Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 9:19 utc | 6
You might not see a collapse “à la soviet” but there are a heck of a lot of signs the US aren’t doing so well. They seems to be in a “slow motion collapse” (SMC)
The first one is poverty with extreme poverty cases in constant rise.
Then there is the global (public & private) debt to GPD ratio , also on the rise.
Add all the societal problems : extreme polarization of public opinions (plural) , more and more sectarianism , interstate migration based on politic affiliations , external immigration raising problematic levels plus the pathological Anglo-Saxon’s inability to integrate people instead of communities, educational level dropping , healthcare costs becoming unsustainable, drug epidemics (or other epidemics…), untamed private and public normative inflation and so on : the list is endless.
There are some eyeopening stats as infant mortality or life expectancy, they are not in the right direction since .. too long for it to be good.
The risks for the US are not the same than those the commies of old faced, but they have the same root cause ; systemic. The soviet were too communists for their own good , the US seems to be to capitalists for their own good.
Brutal collapses are rare events, I’m sure the Romans didn’t realized at the time the empire was collapsing … then the Vandals pillaged Rome and it became obvious something was wrong.
Posted by: Savonarole | Sep 23 2025 12:05 utc | 16
>>> “If Trump pulls up the drawbridge how will the courtiers arrive at the ballroom?” <<<
Posted by: too scents | Sep 23 2025 11:30 utc | 14
.
.
Maybe he just wants to keep out you trolls.
Posted by: seer | Sep 23 2025 12:23 utc | 17
Posted by: Savonarole | Sep 23 2025 12:05 utc | 16
You know empires or dominant powers do not collapse in hours or days, it requires decades if not centuries for them to morph in something else leaving behind some heritage.
Posted by: Mario | Sep 23 2025 12:24 utc | 18
Looking at the first post I smell the stench of Hasbara
…
Posted by: Judge Barbier | Sep 23 2025 12:37 utc | 19
Roland@7…..bombs drop on Yemen just about every night, any idea who is dropping them…..I have noticed Yemen has stopped sending one or two rockets per week to annoy the Apartheid State…..as Lovey points out, Yemen won, no sorry, maybe that was Iran…..
Cheers M
……the US gave the Apartheid State all they need to bomb whomever wherever and when ever they like….no apologies required.
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 23 2025 12:40 utc | 20
2 missiles struck something in Zaporozhye, recon drone was sighted circling the area.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2025 13:01 utc | 21
Dima/MS said AFU is moving a lot of reinforcements from somewhere else to the Zaporozhye fronts through the city, perhaps they are being hit.
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2025 13:02 utc | 22
Yemen/Ansar Allah won because:
1. They’re still standing
2. They’re still a threat. The attacks are still happening; the MSMedia just stopped covering their missile launches at Israel.
3. USRael failed to achieve anything, despite wasting billions in munitions and air sorties.
Sorry, Sean, it’s back to the pub for ya.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Sep 23 2025 13:36 utc | 23
@2
In late 1980s a few cold warriors in U$$A and I thought the Soviets had 20 years left to wither.
We were off by more than 15 years.
The withering of the U$$A empire is apparent….
Posted by: paddy | Sep 23 2025 13:37 utc | 24
DW: John Helmer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWF6HqxpDTg
“Escalation alert: Russia, NATO and the rise of drone warfare.” Also, START treaty extension offered by Moscow, Golden Dome, Trump as ‘reactor’, Estonian airspace provocation, Trump will ‘mediate’ between Ukraine and Russia – not ‘set terms’, Moldova & Romania as new fronts, etc.
*Recommended.
Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 23 2025 13:45 utc | 25
In regard to the imminent (or not so) collapse of the USA, there are numerous factors that are part of this. The bigger picture is that the USA plays a role in the globalist agenda and is expendable. This is demonstrated by things like the industrial offshoring, the color revolution tactics being used there, and the overall decline in the middle class. There is no question that populations the world over are being groomed for neo-feudalism and the USA is not exempt from this. In a way it served its purpose in keeping empire alive and working, but it’s clear that that time is past.
In regard to the USA being violent and divided, it’s important to look at the details. For a gun culture there are remarkably few deaths that actually matter. If you remove the gunshot fatalities from the major cities the USA resembles Denmark. And yes, I am talking about gangbangers murdering eachother. To clarify black lives matter the most when they are expiring under an Anglo officer, they matter less when they are part of crime statistics, and they matter least of all when its black on black homicide in cities.
There are serious shifts in power and finance going on and all the stops are being removed in the color revolution department in an attempt to distract from that. The Blue Team was able to run the covid narrative, promote the tranny agenda and generally run roughshod over conservatives. Now the Red Team is fully primed and weaponized to strike back, and the fur is flying. IMO its all part of a social engineering equation, but that’s neither here nor there….
As per earlier comments, there are quite a few layers to go through when we are speculating about collapse. The thing about the USA is that its very regional. In a crisis, these regions will circle their own wagons and take care of their own some more than others. Given that a major part of the globalist strategy is taking people away from their means of survival and metering every single life giving element, triggering a collapse would work against that. People would abandon the failed system (that was designed to fail) and become more self reliant. Thus we can expect something more like the slow frog boil interspersed with a few more covid-like operations.
In regard to the imminent (or not so) collapse of the USA, there are numerous factors that are part of this. The bigger picture is that the USA plays a role in the globalist agenda and is expendable. This is demonstrated by things like the industrial offshoring, the color revolution tactics being used there, and the overall decline in the middle class. There is no question that populations the world over are being groomed for neo-feudalism and the USA is not exempt from this. In a way it served its purpose in keeping empire alive and working, but it’s clear that that time is past.
In regard to the USA being violent and divided, it’s important to look at the details. For a gun culture there are remarkably few deaths that actually matter. If you remove the gunshot fatalities from the major cities the USA resembles Denmark. And yes, I am talking about gangbangers murdering eachother. To clarify black lives matter the most when they are expiring under an Anglo officer, they matter less when they are part of crime statistics, and they matter least of all when its black on black homicide in cities.
There are serious shifts in power and finance going on and all the stops are being removed in the color revolution department in an attempt to distract from that. The Blue Team was able to run the covid narrative, promote the tranny agenda and generally run roughshod over conservatives. Now the Red Team is fully primed and weaponized to strike back, and the fur is flying. IMO its all part of a social engineering equation, but that’s neither here nor there….
As per earlier comments, there are quite a few layers to go through when we are speculating about collapse. The thing about the USA is that its very regional. In a crisis, these regions will circle their own wagons and take care of their own some more than others. Given that a major part of the globalist strategy is taking people away from their means of survival and metering every single life giving element, triggering a collapse would work against that. People would abandon the failed system (that was designed to fail) and become more self reliant. Thus we can expect something more like the slow frog boil interspersed with a few more covid-like operations.
Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 23 2025 13:51 utc | 26
Sean : MSM made a big ruckus just last week because one of drone “Ansar hulla don’t send anymore” hit a hotel (without any victims), and vids from “Eli Kohpter” intercepting said “unsent drones” around “Ben Gourion” airport or “Egypt border” occurred like twice a day … plus the usual “Hamas rockets” from Gaza and a few “Ballistic missiles interceptions” and “air alerts” were also reported.
Happy rosh hashanah , and happy new year 5786 ^^.
Posted by: Savonarole | Sep 23 2025 14:13 utc | 27
Posted by: Savonarole | Sep 23 2025 12:05 utc | 16
I’ll agree with you that more social shit is happening in the lower echelons of US society. But that is just the ever-widening gap between rich and poor. The VAST MIDDLE CLASS is, as yet, untouched. The millionaire class is growing. There’s only collapse at the bottom. Not in Wall St, or DC, or NY, or LA, or Dallas. Yes, there’s lots of little negative growth indicators — statistics — but it’s all far from collapse. Too many people over-egging the collapse hype.
What defines this whole collapse thing? What are the yardsticks to prove collapse, partial or total, has occured? In what time frame will we look back and say “Yes, America has now collapsed”? Ffs, get a grip.
Posted by: Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 14:23 utc | 28
What defines this whole collapse thing? What are the yardsticks to prove collapse, partial or total, has occured? In what time frame will we look back and say “Yes, America has now collapsed”? Ffs, get a grip.
Posted by: Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 14:23 utc | 28
When a chicken is running around with its head off, it’s probably going to die soon. USreal seems like it’s doing so all around the world. The desperate and indiscriminate USA COVID bio weapon attack might be considered the beginning of.this headless foray.
Posted by: HB Brian | Sep 23 2025 14:42 utc | 29
The VAST MIDDLE CLASS is, as yet, untouched.
Posted by: Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 14:23 utc | 28
—
Hamburger Helper Sales Rise as Americans Try to Stretch Their Food Dollars
The price of beef and other grocery items are climbing, and consumers are turning to canned meats and a 1970s staple.
Sept. 20, 2025
In the 1970s, Hamburger Helper became a staple on American dinner tables as families, strained by inflation and soaring beef prices, looked to turn a pound of ground beef into an entire meal.
These days, those same pressures are why the flavored pasta mix is coming to the rescue again.
While most food companies are seeing declines in consumer demand for their products, sales of Hamburger Helper are up 14.5 percent in the year through August, getting an extra bump from its appearance on an episode of “The Bear” in June, according to the company that owns the brand, Eagle Foods.
And it’s not just Hamburger Helper. Sales of foods commonly purchased by consumers when financial times get tough are on the rise, according to industry analysts. Purchases of rice are up 7.5 percent this year. Distressed shoppers are also buying more cans of tuna, salmon and sardines. Sales of beans and boxes of macaroni and cheese are also strong, based on data from the research firm Circana.
continues ==> https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/20/business/hamburger-helper-food-prices.html
Hedonic adjustments make dog food delicious.
Posted by: too scents | Sep 23 2025 14:45 utc | 30
Yes, America has now collapsed”? Ffs, get a grip.
Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 14:23 utc | 28
Fascinating. A hasbara explaining why a state subject to mass hasbara psychosis isnt in a state of decline & collapse.
Here are some easy tips for viewers at home to follow along:
1 once a healthy organism (state) is infected with a criminal cabal, its simply a matter of time; not if, but when
2 for the US, the when is now. MAGA sensed the danger and is pulling out all stops to survive, but sadly its terminal
3 smart money – like myself and others – no longer greive for once was, but are moving on to prepare for the next stage.
Lets call ut USA 4.0 (1.0 revolution, 2.0 civil war, 3.0 Fed/Ww1/Ww2)
4.0 will resemble post collapse USSR – all social services cut, MIC reduced to core, and of course loss of dollar
The real question is redemption. And for any white American, if the Russians could do it, so can we.
Posted by: Markw | Sep 23 2025 14:53 utc | 31
When there are no longer 800+ American military bases scattered across the planet, surrounding supposed ‘enemies’ and occupying so called ‘friends,’ it will be safe to say the US has collapsed.
Posted by: Caveman | Sep 23 2025 15:07 utc | 32
*** 4.0 will resemble post collapse USSR – all social services cut, MIC reduced to core, and of course loss of dollar ***
Posted by: Markw | Sep 23 2025 14:53 utc | 31
The US political/economic structure incorporates a distributed network architecture, completely unlike the USSR (exogenous communitarian family structure in that geographic area). The only precedent for large scale US collapse in the Great Depression, where the federal government intervened in many areas, providing single points of failure and extending the crisis. So disagree. I will agree, however, that due to federal power increases since the 1930’s the US system is far more brittle than it should be.
Nobody ever went broke betting against the next big thing.
Posted by: frithguild | Sep 23 2025 15:10 utc | 33
USA is still very very strong.
In the mental perception of most of the world’s middle class, the USA is still a kind of paradise.
Everybody wants to become an American consumer.
Even these Russian liberals who ran away from the war.
Posted by: vargas | Sep 23 2025 15:16 utc | 34
” When there are no longer 800+ American military bases scattered across the planet, surrounding supposed ‘enemies’ and occupying so called ‘friends,’ it will be safe to say the US has collapsed.”
——Yes, but if the resources that were previously wasted on said bases were to be used in a civil and constructive manner…..
I know, its a tall order….
Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 23 2025 15:17 utc | 35
Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 23 2025 15:17 utc | 35
Haha, that’s like the Manute Bol of orders. The recent Patrick Lawrence article at Consortium News touches on that a bit. We need an entirely new way of thinking for that to happen. With any luck, post-collapse, with new ways of looking at the world, what you ask is precisely what will happen. But I think we’ll need to get through a dark night to see that bright day.
Posted by: Caveman | Sep 23 2025 15:26 utc | 36
Hamburger Helper is a luxury not human dog food. Tuna and Salmon can not be compared to cat food except for the smell.
USA USA USA
Posted by: steve | Sep 23 2025 15:29 utc | 37
Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 14:23 utc | 28
We’ve been subjected to these kinds of denial comments for many months now, here and in many other comment sections. But all these indignations still don’t make it real or very accurate. Look at any financial or economic site that is NOT on the govt. payroll, they’re all the same in their analysis.
It’s the DEBT man!
Sure Japan and other economies have been printing and using YCC for decades but they aren’t the world’s reserve currency. All those countries have loads of debt, heck the Western World aka the G20 all have serious debt. The estimated global debt is over $300T dollars, that’s more than the total GDP of all those countries.
DEBT matters!
Soon all these countries are going to have to crank up the printing machine into overdrive cuz the results are not as robust or evident any more! These countries will have to include all sorts of “special financial programs” just to keep their heads above water.
The writing is on the wall buddy, damn straight we can talk about collapses and such because it’s starting to show itself all around us!
The main destroyer of all great civilizations thru the ages has always been Compound Interest…
Posted by: bisfab | Sep 23 2025 15:29 utc | 38
frithguild | Sep 23 2025 15:10 utc | 33
“Nobody ever went broke betting against the next big thing.”
Most people don’t have a clue but Russia with at least 12,000 tons of gold and China with at least 20,000 tons of gold are founding members of BRICS and they ARE part of the next big thing…
Posted by: bisfab | Sep 23 2025 15:35 utc | 39
Posted by: Caveman | Sep 23 2025 15:26 utc | 36
—-I agree that there will have to be a massive paradigm shift and that it wont be entirely voluntary.
The expression ’things will get worse before they get better’ comes to mind….
Posted by: Chevrus | Sep 23 2025 15:43 utc | 40
Chevrus | Sep 23 2025 15:17 utc | 35
Since the late 80’s the corporate realm has been laser-focused on only one thing- insane profits.
They will and are doing everything they can to continue that trend. It’s sooo funny and sad at the same time, that this BIG melt-up in us markets is due to two main points.
Share buybacks take millions of shares out of circulation to pump up Earnings Per Share.
The increasing and exponential debasement of the usd makes everything cost more, including shares which increases the amount of dollars in those markets.
Collapse?? Oh ya it’s coming and your currency, all of our currencies will be toilet paper especially as these govts. lower interest rates.
Posted by: bisfab | Sep 23 2025 15:45 utc | 41
Posted by: Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 14:23 utc | 28
Re:middle class
The US middle class is rapidly disappearing. If you aren’t in the 10%, life in the USA is hellish … lose your healthcare insurance and get a big medical bill, and you’re bankrupt. Housing is out of reach to you; if you’re lucky you can find a rental but expect to pay out most of your meager income on rent.
The collapse is happening, it is just being somewhat obscured by stonk markets at all-time highs (again, only the top 10% benefit from this) and a propaganda machine led by Orange Hitler.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Sep 23 2025 15:49 utc | 42
“When there are no longer 800+ American military bases scattered across the planet…it will be safe to say the US has collapsed” – Caveman 32
Gotta disagree there Caveman, “When there are no longer 800+ American military bases scattered across the planet…it will be safe to say the US has collapsed that US is on the road to recovery”
If the US would tend to it’s own shores, stop listening to, fighting for the uppermost-class of English/Anglicized Schoolboys, Israeli/Israeli-Americans/Israel-firsters and conditionally support only those states that the US has a direct stake in while, rebuilding it’s infrastructure/industry, enforcing anti-trust [where practical or, nationalize* where not], it would be a dominate power in a balanced world structure. A balanced world structure is where war becomes a lose/lose proposition, ironically, though flawed, this was achieved during the cold-war.
*It’s not commie-ist thinking to say, it’s too big to break-up/fail but also, it’s too big to allow the artifice of corporations/shareholders an extortionary before national-interests.
Posted by: S Brennan | Sep 23 2025 16:07 utc | 43
Posted by: S Brennan | Sep 23 2025 16:07 utc | 43
I follow your line of thinking. I think it’s a matter of words really. To say we would be on the road to recovery is I think to say we have collapsed. A good metaphor might be that of rock-bottom. If collapse is rock-bottom, then recovery would be AA/NA. You have to admit you have collapsed before recovery can begin. Thanks for your comment!
Posted by: Caveman | Sep 23 2025 16:21 utc | 44
Middle Class ?
Its long gone in the USA.
Tell me how a regular joe can support a family these days buying a modest ranch house, a couple of kids, and a wife who doesn‘t have to work to make ends meet.
Posted by: Exile | Sep 23 2025 16:27 utc | 45
****
Latest negative data points to come out this week.
Consumer retail in the us (which is a major component of GDP) is determined to be 50% bolstered by the top 10% of consumers (rich folks).
Currently, 2.5% of latest consumer spending data is done by the bottom 50% of households/individuals.
There is very few middle class households contributing to Consumer Retail data….
Got Spam?
Posted by: bisfab | Sep 23 2025 16:38 utc | 46
Posted by: censorship | Sep 23 2025 7:57 utc | 3
What is it you care to share, that you think will be censored?
Posted by: Tannenhouser | Sep 23 2025 16:44 utc | 47
Posted by: Regular Visitor | Sep 23 2025 6:55 utc | 1
Yeah, it’s good to have a dream, but you have to wake up some time. In the meantime, happy slumbers.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Sep 23 2025 17:16 utc | 48
Posted by: unimperator | Sep 23 2025 9:50 utc | 9
“I think EU states, if anyone actually commits to fighting will be running away quickly with tail between their legs.”
Nonsense. There will be no ‘tail’ left and they will be lucky to have even one functioning leg. 🙂
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Sep 23 2025 17:21 utc | 49
Posted by: Savonarole | Sep 23 2025 12:05 utc | 16
“educational level dropping”
Yeah. And they were very poor to even start with:
Consider this quote from an American education expert:
“The US has never been first in the world, nor even near the top, on any international tests. Consistently over the past half century, American students have typically scored near the median at best, but most often being in the bottom quartile. The historical record indicates that American elementary students are only average at best, their performance degrading year by year until high school seniors perform last in almost all international tests. The International Science Studies that began in high schools in the late 1960s and early 1970s found that 14-year-olds were below average and seniors scored last of all countries. In the International Mathematics tests that began in the 1960s, American high school seniors scored last of all nations. In the 1982 International Mathematics Study, high school seniors placed at the bottom on almost every test. In terms of the PISA tests, American students – placing last – are simply following the pattern that has been consistent for the past 50 years or more.”
And a quote from one news report: “In October of 2013 a new global report issued by the OECD found that Americans ranked well below the worldwide average in just about every measure of skill. In math, reading, and technology-driven problem-solving , the United States performed worse than nearly every other country… The US would have looked even worse if China had been included in this study. In basic literacy – the ability to understand and use basic written text – 80% of Americans reached only a level 2 out of 5. And in math and numerical proficiency, using numbers in daily life, they are worse … and 10% scored below level 1. Technological literacy and ability were worse too. In problem-solving in a technological environment and the use of “cognitive skills required to solve problems”, the Americans were at the bottom.” And that bottom is in math, vocabulary, language usage and technology, with Chinese students far surpassing the Americans even when using a language that is not their own.
(More at https://www.sott.net/article/472423-Dumber-than-the-average-human )
There are quite a few examples of the paucity of US education posting on here, and it shows. The ‘Dunning-Kruger’ effect is strong (although ‘The Force’ is not. 🙂
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Sep 23 2025 17:29 utc | 50
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Sep 23 2025 12:40 utc | 20
See this for a concise example of the ‘Dunning-Kruger’ effect. Classic, really.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Sep 23 2025 17:33 utc | 51
@snake | Sep 23 2025 12:04 utc | 15
I hope that something happens what you describe. I just don’t find it to be very probable.
The more sceptical side seems to have the better arguments, those who claim that things have to get worse first before they can get better.
Building Industries in the US AND educating the necessary people for it alone is a huge task, one that the Trump administration isn’t even thinking about apparently (no serious efforts to improve education).
The upper quintile can still live a very comfortable life in the West, and they own the banks, the newspapers and TV-stations, all internet infrastructure and most of the politicians. Why would they let change happen?
And there very well might be quite a decent chunk of ordinary Americans fed up with it. But what is the next step now? How would they organize themselves? Both the Democratic Party and Republican Party are thoroughly corrupt. And more independent movements like the Tea Party movement or the Bernie Sanders people got quickly reincoporated into the ruling political system. Doesn’t look good…
Posted by: Roland | Sep 23 2025 17:38 utc | 52
Posted by: Markw | Sep 23 2025 14:53 utc | 31
“And for any white American, if the Russians could do it, so can we”.
So, only ‘white’ ‘Americans’ (- aka US citizens), need apply? There’s a name for that, you know.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Sep 23 2025 17:39 utc | 53