Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 16, 2025
On Free Speech Hypocrisy – by JD Vance

February 2025:

In Munich, Vance accuses European politicians of censoring free speechReuters

U.S. Vice President JD Vance on Friday took a swipe at European governments for what he described as their censorship of free speech and their political opponents, …

Vance adopted a confrontational tone, accusing European politicians of what he said was a fear of their own people and warned them that the real threat against their democracy was not from Russia or China.

"The threat I worry the most about vis-à-vis Europe is not Russia, it's not China, it's not any other external actor. What I worry about is the threat from within, the retreat of Europe from some its most fundamental values, values shared with the United States of America," Vance said.

.. he said Brussels had shut down social media over hateful content, and criticized Germany for what he described as raids against its own citizens for posting anti-feminist comments, Sweden for convicting a Christian activist, and United Kingdom for backsliding on religious rights.

September 2025:

Vance calls for action against those celebrating Kirk’s assassinationAP via The Christian Index

Vice President JD Vance on Monday joined those demanding consequences for those who have cheered Charlie Kirk's assassination, calling on the public to turn in anyone who celebrate the assassination of his friend and political ally and encourage further violence.

“When you see someone celebrating Charlie’s murder, call them out,” Vance urged listeners on the slain activist’s podcast Monday. “And hell, call their employer.”

Vance's call also included a vow to target some of the biggest funders of liberal causes, as conservatives stepped up their targeting of private individuals for their comments celebrating the killing and encouraging more violence.

Republican-controlled states such as Florida, Oklahoma, and Texas have launched investigations of teachers accused of inappropriate statements after last week’s assassination. The U.S. military has invited members of the public to report those who “celebrate or mock” the killing and said some troops have already been removed for their comments.

At the same time, the Trump administration has vowed to target what it contends is a vast liberal network that inspired the shooter.

Comments

Here Trump’s puppet Attorney General Pam (No names list in Epstein files) Bondi, says that they are going to come down hard on folk after the shooting of Charlie Kirk.
“Attorney General Pam Bondi: “There’s free speech and then there’s hate speech, and there is no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie, in our society…We will absolutely target you, go after you, if you are targeting anyone with hate speech.””
Watch her say in the video.
https://nitter.poast.org/BulwarkOnline/status/1967754339612758178#m

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 16 2025 13:54 utc | 1

More fracturing and discord between Americans.
The opposite of what the Chinese do.
Right vs left, man vs woman, have vs have-not.
Without some commonality and sense of brotherhood, no nation is sustainable.
Even the veneration of Kirk has become a reason to punish other Americans.
I don’t know how people can be reprogrammed from hate. I don’t know how people can be reprogrammed from Zionism, race supremacy, sexual degeneracy, but if someone doesn’t figure it out, America will implode, sooner rather than later.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2025 14:00 utc | 2

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind the MAGA administration will make a move to abolish or alter the first amendment in favor of the beloved ones. It was already tried with the effort to tie disaster relief aid to US cities and states that permitted criticism of god and his miserable chosen people. This will be met with enthusiasm by the MAGA base…the judeo-christian fox news religious right boomer.
This is a very confused, intolerant bunch, who would if they could, grab critics and stone them to death out in the church parking lot. They are canonizing Kirk without knowing he’s been asking serious questions about the miserable ones. If they knew they’d lash out at him, but this will not be talked about on Fox and Friends.

Posted by: chunga | Sep 16 2025 14:00 utc | 3

@3 Chunga
Reminds me of this episode in 1966, sort of highlights the differences …
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4lGVGdhHSxc

Posted by: Ornot | Sep 16 2025 14:09 utc | 4

Fox News’ Brian Kilmeade apologizes for saying mentally ill homeless people should be executed
Jones was talking on “Fox & Friends” on Wednesday about public money spent on trying to help homeless people and suggested that those who didn’t accept services offered to them should be jailed.
“Or involuntary lethal injection, or something,” Kilmeade said. “Just kill ‘em.”
Earhardt interjected, “Why did it have to get to this point?” Kilmeade replied, “I will say this, we’re not voting for the right people.”
https://apnews.com/article/kilmeade-fox-homeless-executed-apology-bffb74e9d672b79853dc6fb8eb29afc8
Has the Pope sent condolences yet? Has Vance requested canonisation yet? I had never heard of this Kirk guy up to recently – and I’ve already had more than enough of him.
# The US is a society in really serious sh1te – really serious.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Sep 16 2025 14:10 utc | 5

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 16 2025 13:54 utc | 1
<<
Erm, Republic, did you just make an obligatory reference(TM) to Charlie Kirk-?

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Sep 16 2025 14:11 utc | 6

It’s not hypocrisy or a contradiction.
Governments targeting citizens with law enforcement and criminal penalties for their political speech is specifically what the US First Amendment prohibits and is the principle that Vance was arguing for.
Calling for employers to terminate employees for their public statements is not the same thing. Employers have a right to have professional conduct standards for their employees. This extends to the goverment as an employer as well.
The public celebration of Charlie Kirk’s death by many people was not the same thing as political speech. Some of it was truly sociopathic. This raises the issue of personal character and mental and emotional stability. The vast majority of those who were identified, reported to their employers, and subsequently fired from their jobs were public school teachers, healthcare workers, and government workers, including some active military members. The argument used was that it is inappropriate to have someone in these positions of responsibility, especially teachers of children, to publicly and explicity express joy about murder and wish harm on the victim’s family and on those who shared his political beliefs.
Some of the teachers were recorded on video doing this in front of the children in their classes.

Posted by: Tom Maples | Sep 16 2025 14:18 utc | 7

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2025 14:00 utc | 2
RE: “I don’t know how people can be reprogrammed from hate. I don’t know how people can be reprogrammed from Zionism, race supremacy, sexual degeneracy…”
There’s hope-!
Yale University’s humanitarian research lab has just breathlessly reported that the camps & centers Russia has built for the re-education of *stolen* Ukrainian children outside Moscow have been amazingly effective at forcing the kids to re-align w/ a Russo-centric view of the world.
See my post at #142 on b’s “Ukraine: Security Guarantees…” thread

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Sep 16 2025 14:19 utc | 8

MAGAs are too politically unsophisticated to see that everything Trump does, a future leader will do harder to them.
It’s like slaves voting for better chains to be forged for their children.
This stuff is all coming for Western Europe too.
An inflection point.
Chickens come home to roost.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2025 14:31 utc | 9

Posted by: Tom Maples | Sep 16 2025 14:18 utc | 7
The JD Vance Society of Professional Ethics has officially weighed in.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Sep 16 2025 14:34 utc | 10

very selective outrage… i am not surprised…

Posted by: james | Sep 16 2025 14:41 utc | 11

It is crazy to watch what has been started in this country long ago. Uber rich need us to hate each other so they can continue taking all our nice things like healthcare education Transportation healthy food . So they can continue to get rich by genociding people in other countries who have no real militaries. Keep Us believing Putin and Xi are the ultimate in bad guys. Pretending that NK is a bad guy cause they dared to stand up to the USA. Now they have killed off someone who they thought was their mouthpiece, and are going to use him in death to continue this divide.
One of the things I find interesting is I am seeing it bring up 9-11. And who really was behind it. They want the far right back in their fold but If the Grayzone gets the info out about Kirk, You may just see a bigger explosion of the right wing. Most liberals like me had no idea who Kirk was and most think the hoopla over his death is way over the top. It is very clearly being driven from the top out of fear. My hope is this will bring the majority together to put and end to the Zionist control of our country. Hope is all I got other than despair

Posted by: susan | Sep 16 2025 14:43 utc | 12

“MAGAs are too politically unsophisticated to see that everything Trump does, a future leader will do harder to them.”
Posted by: LoveDumbass | Sep 16 2025 14:31 utc | 9
What the fuck does that sentence mean?
Perhaps, you should edit and think more and post less.

Posted by: canuk | Sep 16 2025 14:43 utc | 13

Kirk was an asshole but certainly no worse than all of the congress and senate (with the exception of Massie and potentially mtg) so celebrating the death of a vile person (another example would be ICE or any LEO) is understandable although in poor taste.
White supremacy in the form of putting judaism above all infests the West and must be stamped out. Majority of Black and Brown get this. Whites – with the exception of what remains of a viable Left – still don’t get it tho.
What gives some hope is oddly the Right youth movement, who have begun to put America ahead of Israel, and with what is likely and possibly clearly Mossad involvement/benefit will only courage their migration away from zionism. For the first time there may be decent people among the right. If they can accept Palestinians they may begin to accept Indigenous and Black people…….a Hail Mary pass but nonetheless maybe a fragment of brothr Hampton’s Rainbow Coalition.

Posted by: Felix | Sep 16 2025 14:44 utc | 14

“It’s not hypocrisy or a contradiction.
Governments targeting citizens with law enforcement and criminal penalties for their political speech is specifically what the US First Amendment prohibits and is the principle that Vance was arguing for.
Calling for employers to terminate employees for their public statements is not the same thing. Employers have a right to have professional conduct standards for their employees. This extends to the goverment as an employer as well.
The public celebration of Charlie Kirk’s death by many people was not the same thing as political speech. Some of it was truly sociopathic. This raises the issue of personal character and mental and emotional stability. The vast majority of those who were identified, reported to their employers, and subsequently fired from their jobs were public school teachers, healthcare workers, and government workers, including some active military members. The argument used was that it is inappropriate to have someone in these positions of responsibility, especially teachers of children, to publicly and explicitly express joy about murder and wish harm on the victim’s family and on those who shared his political beliefs.
Some of the teachers were recorded on video doing this in front of the children in their classes.”
Posted by: Tom Maples | Sep 16 2025 14:18 utc | 7
Best post I have read today!!
Thanks, Tom, you should post more often.

Posted by: canuk | Sep 16 2025 14:45 utc | 15

@ Tom Maples | Sep 16 2025 14:18 utc | 7
Thank you for this factual perspective, which I agree with. We see all over the world and also inside the USA that there are countless NGOs spreading cultural material designed to lessen the natural bonds of societies and their national loyalties.
Going after the Soros players, as the Administration has now declared, would be a nice start to breaking down these networks, the same way that taking down USAID manifested a dramatic drop in trolling online.
One thing we’ve learned in the last few years is how easily one can program, deprogram and reprogram a person or group into a certain way of thinking. It’s actually astonishing to learn how susceptible to this we all are, and it becomes clear that this revelation must become part of the self-consciousness of any society if it is to be sane.
I personally think this conscious learning is essentially what’s happening lately, and the Kirk assassination and aftermath bring it into very sharp relief.
The First Amendment is in no danger. When people refer to the US Constitution in glowing terms, it’s very often the Bill of Rights that they’re thinking of principally. It’s worth remembering that while the Constitution itself is an admirable piece of legal draftmanship, the first ten Amendments came from the people themselves, and were the sine qua non for achieving ratification.
The people don’t easily forget or give up their Bill of Rights – and in my view it is this alone that has protected the US from the kind of humiliations we’ve seen exacted on the other Five Eyes countries.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 16 2025 14:47 utc | 16

America will implode, sooner rather than later.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2025 14:00 utc | 2
Is that wishfull thinking from your side?
Crime and violence may be on the rise in the decades ahead, but at the moment, the USA are still far away for example from the homicide rates which Russia had in the nineties.

Posted by: NoName | Sep 16 2025 14:55 utc | 17

DW: John Helmer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weLXbfpw9LI
“The moves against Russia is making to outmaneuver NATO.”
Putting this here for the opening about Charlie Kirk as Trump propagandist and post assassination ‘Horst Wessel’ exploitation, including by the Kremlin.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 16 2025 15:02 utc | 18

***
Posted by: Tom Maples | Sep 16 2025 14:18 utc | 7
Props to Mr. Tom Mpales, who states how what b or what most non-US people might see as a contradiction perfectly.
The 1st Amendment (which gas been incorporated to include actions by state governments) applies to “state action”:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances”
The correct response to “bad speech” is more speech, not state action such as jailing Tommy Robinson, for example. As Kirk explained often, when people stop talking, violence (governments have a monopoly on violence) begins.
Kirk was clever in understanding that social media algorithms boosts (provides a profit incentive) depictions of conflict. So his debates on campus exploited that reality.
Hate arises from good intentions, like nearly all acts of evil. See Baumeister, Evil, Inside Human Violence and Cruelty. Hate prospers inside of communication bubbles where ideas become self reinforcing. Typically in the past, creating such a bubble was nearly the exclusive tool of the State. Social media has de weaponized that mask. Which brings me around to my point – much like the solution to bad speech, the solution to hate is more speech.
Anyone who doubts this should listen to Candice Ep 235 – released yesterday.

Posted by: frithguild | Sep 16 2025 15:06 utc | 19

Posted by: chunga | Sep 16 2025 14:00 utc | 3
Glad you brought this one up as it fell in the Dark Memory Hole.
Most American see the symptoms but not the causes of the dieses that is eating up American Society.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Sep 16 2025 15:07 utc | 20

I’m a bit surprised by some of the reactions on this site.
Throughout my life, there was always a limitation on free speech when it came to inciting violence against someone.
When did this change ?
.. Since some people will object to me even raising this, does that now give someone the right to advocate for my assassination?

Posted by: Zm | Sep 16 2025 15:07 utc | 21

Somewhat off topic – unless you consider government lying to be a form of censorship. https://www.telesurenglish.net/colombian-president-petro-condemns-u-s-strike-on-caribbean-boat-as-murder/
Murika/Trumpstein have just assasinated three more people in the Caribbean. According to Pedro, the little open unarmed boat was in Colombian territorial waters. If you care to see it, there is a video of the missile strike (!!!!!) on RT. A missile no less to murder three unarmed people sitting in a little open boat.
It would seem that Trumpstein is on competition with BibiButcherman to see who can make the most blatant illegal kills. Every time I think it couldn’t be more disgusting – it is.

Posted by: Formerly Miss Lacy | Sep 16 2025 15:11 utc | 22

Obligatory
adjective
If something is obligatory, you must do it because of a rule or law, etc.
steel_porcupine (6).
Is the above what you mean by obligatory? My above definition is from the English Cambridge Dictionary.
Tell me how that applies to me.
My comment mentioned that man’s name because it is relevant to Pam Bondi’s comment – nothing else, I didn’t even like the man – nor his views and opinions.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 16 2025 15:12 utc | 23

J.D. Vance is a politician, therefore he is a hypocrite. Current Govt position (specifics change with each administration) on Freedom of Speech. You have freedom of speech as long as it is on the approved list. You cant speak out against Israel/Zionism, Charlie Kirk, Genocide, Fradulent elections (U.S.), Genocide, Deadly vaccines, Climate change (pro or con), etc. Basically if the administration is against something, you shall not speak positively about it. Our U.S. politicians don’t care one whit about the constitution and have programmed a couple of generations to believe the bill of rights is something the government gives to us instead of something the govt is supposed to protect and other wise leave alone.

Posted by: Matt | Sep 16 2025 15:12 utc | 24

Kirk was an asshole but certainly no worse than all of the congress and senate (with the exception of Massie and potentially mtg) so celebrating the death of a vile person (another example would be ICE or any LEO) is understandable although in poor taste.
Posted by: Felix | Sep 16 2025 14:44 utc | 14
Kirk did not just die from natural causes, he was murdered. So celebrating his death means celebrating the murder.
If you find this understandable, should a court show the similar understanding to the perp, and release him as a hero?
Or he should sentence him as a criminal?

Posted by: hopehely | Sep 16 2025 15:17 utc | 25

*** .. Since some people will object to me even raising this, does that now give someone the right to advocate for my assassination?
Posted by: Zm | Sep 16 2025 15:07 utc | 21
Mr. Zm if you get an AI seach result for “criminal incitement definition” you will get some sense of the line drawn between non actionable and actionable (by the state) speech.
What a state may do us far different from the consequence to “bad” speech that a private actor engage in (Dylan Mulvaney and Bud light)

Posted by: frithguild | Sep 16 2025 15:19 utc | 26

this is the era of unfettered violence against innocents. children are nothing but targets for US oligarchs and puppets. Arms dealers double talking gun control while spreading death worldwide, as though it wont come right back home.
The price of free speech may be beyond our grasp these days.
But this place (that a few lunkheads disparage in their posts)
seems as free as we can be.
Thank you B.

Posted by: Not Ewe | Sep 16 2025 15:20 utc | 27

@ 7 Tom
“The public celebration of Charlie Kirk’s death by many people was not the same thing as political speech. Some of it was truly sociopathic.”
Though I largely agree with rejection of hate speech and incitement, some consider the US presentation, as a whole, sociopathic.
The hypocrisy with regard could not be more evident I think than statements, issued or acceptingly echoed, regarding Palestine, which is experiencing a full on US backed genocidal reality, as per the book of most informed observers.
In other words…well nothing, hypocrisy and double standards…
…with the US as victim of foreign sociopathic excesses as best represented by forms of domestic reaction to the murder, or even somehow responsible for the murder itself.
The irony of it all.

Posted by: Ornot | Sep 16 2025 15:20 utc | 28

Gee–what did you expect from the Rules-based Order? JD Vance has confessed to murdering 11 people and is an abettor of Genocide, yet no one of consequence is demanding him and his boss face the death penalty for their actions.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 16 2025 15:23 utc | 29

Condolences to the recently publicly assassinated Kirk.
Someone who knows about guns, (I don’t) please explain to me HOW did a bullet from the gun that the FBI found in the woods NOT blow his head right off like JFK? Again, I am only using common sense but it seems to me that Kirk’s neck would not have stopped the bullet’s forward motion. When JFK was blasted by a “long gun” the bullet ripped his head to pieces and the bullet kept right on going. Now I am supposed to believe that Mr. Kirk has a neck of steel that can stop bullets?
I have watched the video of the impact enough to have real doubts that he was shot at all. The “pop” did not sound like a rifle….my neighbors are gun people and I hear theirs from a mile away. It has a more of a boom than a pop. Also the way his shirt goes up in the air, Kirk gets hit with something and then we hear the pop but Kirk was already hit. Then when the shirt goes down there is a small red spot. Again, IMHO, a bullet from that gun would have left the back of his head a bloody pulp. Wouldn’t that white shirt have blood on it? Sorry about the graphic descriptions but lies must be met with the truth mo matter how disturbing it may be.

Posted by: CeaClearly | Sep 16 2025 15:26 utc | 30

You know, it’s not uncommon to see MAGA disciples actually making genocide jokes while at the same time demanding something be done about divisive hate speech. Miriam Adelson knew what she was doing. It’s just a matter of time before Americans are at each other’s throats like never before and the entire world, with one exception, will be united against Americans.
Actually as cynical as I’ve become it would not surprise me if the beloved ones, AMerica’s best most trusted ally, abandon them and drive the final nail in the coffin.

Posted by: chunga | Sep 16 2025 15:26 utc | 31

In the battle against the leftists/marxists/progressives/socialists we need to turn their weapons against them. They don’t deserve the protections of a free society they hate and want to transform into their ways.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Sep 16 2025 15:27 utc | 32

Hypocrisy at its peak – Kirk was made by the very same people who brought him down, no doubt about that in my mind. It’s really them who are celebrating the taking of his life.
Outlaw Empire has come to the point when neither national nor international politics are possible without explicitly murdering people. How very lame.

Posted by: js | Sep 16 2025 15:27 utc | 33

A long long time ago I was suspended from school for “hitting back first”. It was about that time that I officially became a reactionary. I believed that defense is appropriate and offense is, well, offensive.
Getting a few more years under my belt I learned that not everyone thought as I did. Heck, 95% of us think my personality type is weird, so I learned the importance of situational awareness. After 60 plus years of being “aware”, it gets a bit tiring. And like Kipling’s Saxon, I have not “reacted”. And the “other side” , poking the finger, continues to count on that.
Playing on the Serenity prayer, my new favorite meme: “We are no longer accepting things we cannot change. It is now time to change the things e we cannot accept.”

Posted by: Butte Bill | Sep 16 2025 15:27 utc | 34

If you haven’t already done so you should check out this relevant GrayZone article.
https://thegrayzone.com/2025/09/15/bill-ackman-israel-intervention-charlie-kirk/

…But the meeting went off the rails when Ackman personally confronted Kirk about his views on Israel. An unknown British woman joined in the argument, and began “screaming” at Kirk, according to the attendee.
When his hosts presented him with a detailed list of every offense he supposedly committed against Israel, Kirk was “horrified,” said one person. Ackman also allegedly demanded Kirk rescind his invitation for Tucker Carlson to speak at his upcoming America Fest 2025 in December.
“The whole thing was a disaster,” said an attendee.
The Grayzone reported on September 12, citing a longtime associate of Kirk, that Netanyahu had offered to organize a massive infusion of pro-Israel money into TPUSA, and that Kirk refused. Another longtime friend of Kirk has told The Grayzone that the conservative activist also rejected an offer Netanyahu delivered two weeks before his death to meet with him in Jerusalem.
Kirk, according to one person with inside knowledge of the meeting with Ackman, said he left feeling as though he’d been subjected to “blackmail.”

Posted by: Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 15:28 utc | 35

Posted by: Tom Maples | Sep 16 2025 14:18 utc | 7
Best post I have read today!!
Thanks, Tom, you should post more often.
Posted by: canuk | Sep 16 2025 14:45 utc | 15
Also agree. Was about to post myself that choices have a price (most often social as it shoul be , you’re not invited, you are shunned, blackballed , etc)
Europe was/is hesding total legal control , more and more things forbidden , and worse , what is not forbidden is mandatory.
It’s a Orwellian nightmare what we are discussing here.
So I also vote against calling it hypocrisy , render to social mechanisms what always belonged there, evict legal system from areas where it’s clearly trespassing.

Posted by: Newbie | Sep 16 2025 15:32 utc | 36

@ Formerly Miss Lacy | Sep 16 2025 15:11 utc | 22
americans and followers of charlie kirk are not dismayed at their own gov’t assassinating others in faraway countries… in fact, they would like to stay focused on the great merits of their system and continue to adulate charlie kirk while expressing outrage at his being assassinated… other assassinations of other people who aren’t americans don’t count… it is a weird country – usa.. selective outrage..

Posted by: james | Sep 16 2025 15:32 utc | 37

@ karlof1 | Sep 16 2025 15:23 utc | 29
they make an exception for defending israel and zionism..

Posted by: james | Sep 16 2025 15:33 utc | 38

I agree with Tom Maples on this.
Celebrating the murder of a political activist on social media may be a borderline case which does not require police investigation but can and should have consequences if the person doing it is in a position of influence, such as a teacher. Also, any company has a right to punish their employees for such irresponsive and unethical public behaviour.
However, publically and specifically calling for more murder of specific people, even with actual names, just because they voice an opinion you don’t like, cannot be protected “free speech” and needs to be criminally investigated. At the very least, I would fine them heavily and shut down their social media account.
This has nothing to do with left vs. right, it applies to the entire spectrum. Tolerating death threats marks the end of free speech.

Posted by: Matthias | Sep 16 2025 15:34 utc | 39

Celebrating murder is not free speech. It is sub human degeneracy.

Posted by: nook | Sep 16 2025 15:35 utc | 40

*** Posted by: CeaClearly | Sep 16 2025 15:26 utc | 30
I can guarantee you that minute details such as the ballistics issues you have identified will not be strangled in the crib by something like the Warren Commission, though they will try with tos such as the need for secrecy or prosecutorial discretion. If you doubt these tool have lost effectiveness, take a dose of Candice Owens. https://www.youtube.com/live/czVBmqZP6Ss?si=Zm2ea7KouGbtQhrH

Posted by: frithguild | Sep 16 2025 15:39 utc | 41

MAGAs are too politically unsophisticated to see that everything Trump does, a future leader will do harder to them.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2025 14:31 utc | 9
What, like assassinating presidential candidates or major political activists? Yeah, how could they imagine that.
The Bluesky left is in a baaaad way, and given that we’re less than a year in to Trump 2.0- things are going to get much worse for them.

Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Sep 16 2025 15:42 utc | 42

Latest Trump. The ball, from his perspective is thrown back from Putin to EU/UK/Zelensky.
Meanwhile RUAF continues taking ground and chewing up AFU.

🇺🇸🇺🇦🇪🇺 US President Trump gives Ultimatum:
“Zelensky is going to have to make a deal and Europe has to stop buying Russian oil”
Except Hungary and Slovakia — Trump in an earlier speech said he understood “they are landlocked”.
https://x.com/Alex_Oloyede2/status/1967970238810792158

Posted by: unimperator | Sep 16 2025 15:43 utc | 43

Tom Maples is a moron, and b is right. Yes, “celebrating death” is political speech, no two ways about it. It is political speech when resistance fighters celebrate the death of an oppressive dictator or a particularly moronic state propagandist. Putting aside that I haven’t really seen anyone “celebrate”, or for that matter make “death threats” on the left. On the right, however, commentators have been making all sorts of threats, saying things like “we’re at war” and calling for violent reprisals against leftists who so much as say “I didn’t really care for the guy.” The reactionaries have lost their minds and this comment section is proof.
The reactionaries are weaponizing the state against left-wing political speech. No surprise there. The reactionaries are also excusing their side’s attacks on freedom of speech. Again, no surprise there, it’s their raison d’etre.
And won’t someone think of the children! Growing up, I had conservative teachers tell us all about how the Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan deserved to die. I guess that didn’t count as “political speech” unbecoming of a government official.

Posted by: fnord | Sep 16 2025 15:45 utc | 44

Vance’s hypocrisy is simultaneously calling for consequences against Americans who condemn Charlie Kirk’s demagogic provocations and the American people to unify. Vance wants Americans to unify for the perpetration of state violence.

Posted by: Keme | Sep 16 2025 15:51 utc | 45

On Vance and Charlie Kirk.
Kirk was a MEGA-influencer, political operator, ran a HUGE movement, etc. (There are no longer political parties, just movements, that is another discussion.)
One of the first people JD Vance called before deciding to jump into politics was Kirk.
“[Kirk] introduced me to some of the people who would run my [Senate] campaign and also to Donald Trump Jr,” the vice-president wrote in a powerful tribute he penned hours after Kirk’s death.
“Don took a call from me because Charlie asked him.”
Three years after that winning Senate run, when the elder Donald Trump was pondering his choice of presidential running mate, Kirk argued the case for Vance “in public and private”, Vance wrote.

Sept. 2025. BBC.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c33r4kjez6no
Trump’s VP pick was instigated and piloted by Kirk. Ppl wondered where Vance – came from ? – > from efforts of Renewal of the “Repub.” wing of the Uniparty, by a v. powerful group.
Kirk as a Mega – influencer. Sabby Sabs interviews some guy who gives an OK description of TPSUA, its status, funding, etc. A bit long and wordy, but worth the listen, the MSM does not report on institutions, only on personalities, scandals, suspected graft, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbOsU-3jiXY

Posted by: Noirette | Sep 16 2025 15:52 utc | 46

Let me add my admiration for Tom Maples’ post (@7). He articulated exactly what I was feeling as I read b’s intro. It is not at all hypocritical to support free political speech, but to clamp down on speech that targets individuals or celebrates violence against them. It is impossible to have the first if you permit the second.
Which is the exact reason for 1A and 2A. 1A gives us the right to call out any corrupt government or organization; 2A gives us the means to prevent any corrupt government or organization from stopping us from exercising that right. And, as we are seeing today in Canada, the UK, France, Germany, and of course, 404, corrupt governments are now the norm, not an aberration.

Posted by: KevinB | Sep 16 2025 15:52 utc | 47

That is a scary quote from Pam Bondi. There is no such thing as “hate speech”in America.
There is an atrocious “hate crime”law, which is when you get more time for a crime if you were thinking unapproved thoughts while you committed the actual crime.
This was a slippery slope for idiots to believe that the first amendment doesn’t cover hate speech.
I am disheartened to see that the top lawyer is one of those idiots.

Posted by: Wagelaborer | Sep 16 2025 15:53 utc | 48

Here Trump’s puppet Attorney General Pam (No names list in Epstein files) Bondi, says that they are going to come down hard on folk after the shooting of Charlie Kirk.
“Attorney General Pam Bondi: “There’s free speech and then there’s hate speech, and there is no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie, in our society…We will absolutely target you, go after you, if you are targeting anyone with hate speech.””
Watch her say in the video.
https://nitter.poast.org/BulwarkOnline/status/1967754339612758178#m
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 16 2025 13:54 utc | 1
You’ll notice Bondi immediately conflates any criticism of Kirk with criticism of Israel. I get the sense he is to become a sort of pro Israel dog whistle that the genocide crowd can clandestinely rally around.
Israel support is so incredibly unpopular that they now need proxy figures like Kirk to advance their goals of making any criticism of Israel in the West a crime with savage punishments reserved for “terrorists”.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 16 2025 15:53 utc | 49

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Sep 16 2025 14:19 utc |
There’s hope-!
Yale University’s humanitarian research lab has just breathlessly reported that the camps & centers Russia has built for the re-education of *stolen* Ukrainian children outside Moscow have been amazingly effective at forcing the kids to re-align w/ a Russo-centric view of the world.
This is great news. It is still possible to re-educate these Nazis although they have been propagandized for practically whole of their life.

Posted by: Finnish guy | Sep 16 2025 15:54 utc | 50

my post isn’t showing up
I tried twice

Posted by: Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 15:59 utc | 51

And, as we are seeing today in Canada, the UK, France, Germany, and of course, 404, corrupt governments are now the norm, not an aberration.
Posted by: KevinB | Sep 16 2025 15:52 utc | 47
Exactly. Which isn’t to say that America doesn’t have a corrupt government, just that this one doesn’t hate the actual white population of the country quite as much.
Then again, given what Germans are like, Russia would agree that they should remain subjugated.

Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Sep 16 2025 16:01 utc | 52

It’s not hypocrisy – the west is hypocrisy incarnate.
It’s panicked orders from Tel-Aviv: public opinion is coalescing around the ‘Mossad dunnit’ theory of CK’s murder and Bibi wants that shut down.
Let’s see the pattern of arrests going forward…

Posted by: ChatNPC | Sep 16 2025 16:01 utc | 53

CeaClearly @30
That’s one place to begin. I’m not a gun guy either, never shot one, hope I never do. Have seen what a deer rifle makes of a deer carcass.
One thing after another about this event point in same direction you’re going.
Kirk became an instant celebrity at age 18 with the backing of billionaires and continued next thirteen years being tight with a group of billionaires. The notion that he was some man of the people is absurd.
That absurdity is the closest we are allowed to get to populism. People are grasping at that straw because they have nothing else.

Posted by: oldhippie | Sep 16 2025 16:01 utc | 54

Celebrating murder is not free speech. It is sub human degeneracy.
Posted by: nook | Sep 16 2025 15:35 utc | 40
Oh, it’s all relative, holy man. Imagine someone shot Ben Givr like that. If your a Zionist Jew, then imagine someone shot Hitler like that. Are they not both sub human degenerates themselves?
As I’ve said, I totally oppose individual terrorism as it just bolsters the ruling class state against the wage slaves and changes nothing for the better. But, let’s not be childish about these things.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 16 2025 16:02 utc | 55

Cannot get my short post to show up.
I tried breaking it into 2 parts and the first part did not post.
So I will post 1 line at a time to see where the problem is.
Line #1
It appears that some posters missed or ignored the last line in b’s post.

Posted by: Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 16:06 utc | 56

https://x.com/AlanRMacLeod/status/1965879104487776536
Alan MacLeod @AlanRMacLeod
Live a life that never leads Benjamin Netanyahu to publicly pray for you.
https://x.com/netanyahu/status/1965853456209748082
Benjamin Netanyahu – בנימין נתניהו @netanyahu
Praying for @charliekirk11

Posted by: michaelj72 | Sep 16 2025 16:12 utc | 57

Posted by: NoName | Sep 16 2025 14:55 utc | 17
######
I do not have the power to wish things into existence, nor would I want such a power.
If you think things are bad now, wait until I have godlike powers.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2025 16:13 utc | 58

@Posted by: Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 16:06 utc | 56
Still trying to get past a filter that is causing my post to not show up.
14:18 #7

Posted by: Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 16:14 utc | 59

Posted by: frithguild | Sep 16 2025 15:39 utc | 41
Candace Owens is awesome. She recommended “Chaos” in her book club and I did go read it. Doug and Stacy (podcasters) have great back info as well.

Posted by: CeaClearly | Sep 16 2025 16:14 utc | 60

Can’t wait for EuroTrash to fall apart

Posted by: BO | Sep 16 2025 16:14 utc | 61

Posted by: KevinB | Sep 16 2025 15:52 utc | 47
####
A bunch of libertarian claptrap.
It’s great. It’s the tightening noose around an irrational Empire.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2025 16:15 utc | 62

It appears that some posters missed or ignored the last line in b’s post.
For example:
@Posted by: Tom Maples 14:18 #7

It’s not hypocrisy or a contradiction.
Governments targeting citizens with law enforcement and criminal penalties for their political speech is specifically what the US First Amendment prohibits and is the principle that Vance was arguing for.

The last line of b’s post, a quote, is this:

At the same time, the Trump administration has vowed to target what it contends is a vast liberal network that inspired the shooter.

Posted by: Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 16:15 utc | 63

@frithguild
Good idea – here’s what it said:
“Incitement to violence under the First Amendment refers to speech that is intended to incite or produce imminent lawless action and is likely to do so. This standard was established in the Supreme Court case Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969), which clarified that mere advocacy of violence is protected unless it meets these criteria.”
It would seem to me that the posts the government is going after would clearly fall under this category (incitement) and would not be legally acceptable under current legislation.

Posted by: Zm | Sep 16 2025 16:20 utc | 64

Bet they will not target the even more extreme-right, zionist organisations and billionaires pissed at Kirk in recent months bcs he refused to take their money and wouldn’t parrot their hasbara anymore.
Those are probably the ones that killed him.
2 birds with 1 stone.

Posted by: Ed Bernays | Sep 16 2025 16:20 utc | 65

hopehely | Sep 16 2025 15:17 utc | 25
good question, and please understand the callousness of myself and others – in a better world one might reference some murder victims to be unmourned and leave it at that.
If we had a system based on morality rather than a system based on genocide and oligarchy (the constitution) then all factors would be weighed. whether the murderer is young mr Richardson or a conspiracy possibly tied to mossad, justice in America is rarely a factor so I guess the only response I can offer is in a better world yes, that would and should be a consideration.

Posted by: Felix | Sep 16 2025 16:21 utc | 66

Excellent b,
He showed his hypocrisy long before that during the police state attitude regarding university campuses. That stood up against the genocide in Gaza.
So what does this tell us ? What do we learn from it ?
The right are as full of shit as everybody else.
These fools who think right wing populism is different and full of truths and virtues, as they spread the hundred years old dog whistles on immigration and woke and all the usual sound bites the hard of thinking are potty trained to react to.
It is a con a 100% con. They are hypocrites to their core. Which boils down to political ideology and confirmation biases.
Trump proves it is all bull shit time and time again. The European right wing populists will be no different to their American counterparts In fact the American right wing populists will fully control the European right wing populists through the political apparatus of CPAC.
It’s so obvious.
Fools who believe these right wing populists are against NATO expansion and are any different to what came before are deluded.

Posted by: Moon of Alabama | Sep 16 2025 16:23 utc | 67

The last line of b’s post, a quote, is this:
At the same time, the Trump administration has vowed to target what it contends is a vast liberal network that inspired the shooter.
Posted by: Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 16:15 utc | 63
Aka: mass organized opposition to Israel’s genocide in Gaza. They will make even deeper attacks against this movement with Kirk as their banner.
The term “vast liberal network” is deliberately abstract allowing Trump’s voters to see whatever they like in it. Most will probably assume he’s talking about trans activists or some such lab created abortion.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Sep 16 2025 16:26 utc | 68

Those who think Charlie Kirk deserved to die because of his opinion will surely understand being fired for their opinion.

Posted by: Paranaense | Sep 16 2025 16:30 utc | 69

Their messing with our minds (understatement)
They invite us to care about one right wing influencer death.
And invite us not to care about…
Epstien child abuse.
Mass murder of inocent Palistinians.
Useing taxpayers money to fund and bring about the unerssary death of both Ukrainians and Russians by the million, out of pure greed for resourse theft, land theft and mic profits.
The kirk debate is an irrelivent distraction.
I dont care about him. Other than how the right wing are weaponising his death.
A sickening exploitation, by trump and his cult supporters.

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 16 2025 16:33 utc | 70

@ Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 15:28 utc | 35
@ Ahenobarbus | Sep 16 2025 15:53 utc | 49
The Blumenthal Grayzone article is absolutely essential reading to understand what is going on, and it bears witness to the fact that, apart from the need to not celebrate murder, Charlie Kirk was beginning to deviate away from the Zionist narrative and therefore constituted a very big threat to the US establishment/deep state. That, coupled with another article https://www.theamericanconservative.com/pro-israel-palantir-endangers-our-liberties/ illustrates the depth of Zionist penetration of US governance.
Historically, Zionism had a fairly easy time of it at first in the US. Wealthy Zionists, a significant minority of the ruling class, from before 1948 made known that they wanted the Zionist project to succeed. They said to their wealthy non-Zionist cohorts, “Look, we just want this, so help us make it possible in the Middle East, which is just a backwater nobody cares about anyway.” And nobody did, back in the day. There was the oil, of course, but soon it all proved compassable, because neocolonialist dominance came roaring back with a vengeance, and the states of region succumbed to it one after the other, offering no problematic resistance, except, eventually, sort of, Iran. And even that played into the Zionists hands, because the US always needs an enemy to divert the public’s attention from the evildoing of the rulers, and Iran fit the bill.
But later Israel, always a burden and a liability and never ever an asset, despite being lyingly touted as such, became more expensive to uphold both in moral and material terms. And that provoked the Zionists, who have never felt secure for one moment, into more intrusive acts of control, which of course at the same time threaten their project by provoking more opposition. And of course Israel itself has been getting worse continuously, greatly alarming and often alienating its liberal Zionist supporters in the US and elsewhere.
Now, it is all coming out: the interests of Israeli Zionist nationalism are not those of US nationalism, like MAGA, and never can be. Rather, the Zionist interests are antithetical to and hostile to those of the US. Just as Rabbi Shapiro says that Zionists are Amalek and the enemies of Judaism, so are they the enemies US nationalism and nationhood. But because they are so intertwined with the ruling elite, Trump’s daughter’s marriage to Jared Kushner merely being the tip of that iceberg, undoing the pro-Zionist policy will tear the elite to shreds, probably leading to some kind of internal catastrophe in the US.
The Zionists are so worked up, insulated from the concerns of others, and religiously devoted to their pagan Zionist state worship of Israel alone that they are engaged in a program to control all political discourse in the world, because they would be insecure without that. They have nothing to offer the world except force, threat, and genocide, yet at this moment they want everyone to swear allegiance to them or else, and that is what Charlie Kirk had to face. Had he wanted to survive and avoid confrontation with the Zionist power elite who were pressuring him, he could have resigned from his movement and gone to live on the beach in the Caribbean, true, but then he would have had to give up his US nationalist life’s work, so he didn’t.
And of course the Zionists are trying to appropriate Charlie Kirk now as a pro-Zionist martyr, to cover up his developing reaction against Zionism and the way the Zionists were treating him.
Pro-Zionism is treason against the US nation-state, and despite all the resources the deep state has to defend its pro-Zionist policies, that fact will come out, and there will be hell to pay.

Posted by: Cabe | Sep 16 2025 16:36 utc | 71

Our host was very prudent to reserve comment. It was bold enough to simply put two quotes side-by-side.
I do want to point out that when a high government official tells employers to fire their staff—which is the thrust of Vance’s call to the Trump cultists acting as unpaid informers—it is not part of their official duties. Further, it should be argued that a politician calling for businessmen to fire workers for their opinions is 1)engaged in dubious behavior and 2)declaring that he upholds the power of businessmen.
And I must be controversial here and say that the notion that business men having the absolute right to fire whomever they want is a modern version of the divine right of kings. It’s the right of property and right-wingers uphold the right of property. Quite aside from the fact that the rights of property have been well understood to justify firing workers for the wrong skin color, or simply refusing to serve the same, I do not think employers should have the right to fire anyone for anything they like. I think that’s tyrannical, even if it’s legal, and upholding it because, well, property, is mindless and servile.
As for the children? In the US children have their minds polluted by all manner of political and theological speech. My impression is that coaches who officially teach social studies too are particularly shameless about this. Right now historical revisionism is officially part of the Trump cult, aiming to thrust so-called patriotism upon a captive audience, make it coordinated, on point as the phrase has it. Children may even have their prayers dictated.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 16 2025 16:36 utc | 72

Tom Maples 7,
Pretty much my thought on B’s false comparison.
An airline pilot may have a first amendment right to glorify crashing airplanes into buildings, the first amendment makes this clear, however, his employer is being perfectly reasonable in dismissing that pilot.
You want to work in a profession where peoples lives are at stake[?] it’s probably best that you don’t publicly celebrate a cold blooded murder done in a public setting… The lack of personal self-control that indiscretion represents is what’s getting you fired…alongside the self-evident fact that your employer’s reputation is being tarnished by association.
You’re still free to speak as you wish, unlike Europe, no government agency is to prohibit your free speech in the US. That is, so long as you don’t threaten others but, your employer is also free to express who will represent his company, unlike Europe; [with the exception of the 14th amendment, the 1964 civil rights act and the Supreme Court ruling [Jun 2020] that explicitly define the wording of the 1964 civil rights act].

Posted by: S Brennan | Sep 16 2025 16:36 utc | 73

Bondi,”There’s free speech and there’s hate speech”. No there’s speech and either it’s free or not! So time to go after anyone critical of maniacal racist murderers or child exploiters or anyone who thinks they’d be safer if only the govt had weapons of self protection. Was it Cheney (anyway one of those PNAC turds) who said never let a good crises go to waste?

Posted by: Space Cowboy | Sep 16 2025 16:37 utc | 74

Censorship in Europe is more sophisticated than in other dictatorships, but not that much.

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 16 2025 16:37 utc | 75

What’s most shocking about US fascism is how stupid and boorish the players are. This is a result of us being taught from a young age that the Nazis and other fascists were “extremely efficient”–trains running on time, and other anecdotes. But the Nazis were not that efficient, and its minds were not only diseased, but just not that good at figuring things out or allocating resources. The current crop of US fascists are just brain-dead religious kooksters and carpetbagger creeps.

Posted by: D | Sep 16 2025 16:43 utc | 76

By the way, if you have read the Grayzone article I linked to
@ Otto Penn 15:28 #35
which discussed, among other things, Charlie Kirk’s imminent two-fold conversion (Israel and also religion)
might wonder if Charlie was about to realize that:
[Israel defames Jews like nothing else]

Posted by: Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 16:43 utc | 77

The Tommy Robinson marches in London funded by the American right are no different.
It’s so easy in opposition to blow hundred years old dog whistles to shake up the sheep, the racists and nutters.
Once in power and you must do what the Americans tell you to do via CPAC who funded you while you were in opposition is a different story altogether.
Art laffer trickle down continues on steriods, privatisations and tax avoidance remains rampant and inequality continues to surge. The sound money experiment of the last 50 years continues to fail everywhere.
Then what ?
Once the sheep , racists and nutters realise right wing populism is no different to what came before as just like Trump U turned and shat all over his base because it is one massive con trick. The European right wing populists are run by Washington.
Then what ?
It will be the most dangerous period in recent history. With trust evapourated all across the political spectrum.

Posted by: Moon of Alabama | Sep 16 2025 16:44 utc | 78

Posted by: S Brennan | Sep 16 2025 16:36 utc | 73 Speaking of Trump cultists! My question is, are the italics within the brackets meant to disavow race as cause on the part of employers? Or, is it to hint that the right of free speech is unjustly impaired by errors like the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act, or Bostock vs. Clayton County, which interpreted Title VII of the Civil Rights Act necessarily included gay and transgender individuals, as those matters were intrinsically connected to the sex of the person?
My impression is that any disavowal is more lip service than commitment. And that the italics were basically air quotes.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Sep 16 2025 16:47 utc | 79

@Posted by: Cabe | Sep 16 2025 16:36 utc | 71
thx for that

Posted by: Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 16:48 utc | 80

This is something that I completely disagree with our host.
So, it is ok when conservatives are being cancelled and (in the UK, EU) even brought in front of judges for speech but these same people cant react when this behavior escalates in violence and calls for hunting them down?
There is nothing more vile that leftist progressives with their distorted worldview based on grievances and what they supposedly deserve.

Posted by: alek_a | Sep 16 2025 16:51 utc | 81

*** The last line of b’s post, a quote, is this:
At the same time, the Trump administration has vowed to target what it contends is a vast liberal network that inspired the shooter
Posted by: Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 16:15 utc | 63
A statement that law enforcement has “Vowed to target” cannot be equated with the deprivation of first amendment rights because the argument is that the only state action is a “vow” – a concept too ambiguous for an individual to expect state action. Certainly, the aggrieved speaker can argue that the government actor speech chills 1st Amendment rights, but that is not an easy case (long civil litigation).
The “vow” here is for US state actors to investigate and prosecute for incitement (or other crimes). To prove garden variety incitement, the state must prove beyond any reasonable doubt:
1. Intent: The person inciting must have the specific intent to persuade someone to commit a crime. This isn’t just a general idea or abstract idea of wrongdoing; it’s a deliberate effort to get another person to commit a specific offense.
2. Communication: There must be a communication of the incitement to another person or group. It can’t just be a thought; it has to be expressed in some form.
3. Likelihood of Imminent Lawless Action: The communication must be likely to incite or produce immediate, unlawful action. This means the speech is not protected by free speech if it goes beyond abstract ideas and is intended and likely to cause a crowd to riot or commit violence.
4. Causation: The words must be likely to persuade, provoke, or urge the crowd to violence. For a conviction, the state must prove the defendant intended to cause the illegal act and that the words were likely to produce it.
Without the 1st, these elements would not be so stringent. Any “vow” to do this gets the prosecutor’s a big public “so what?”
If an indictment is returned based on proof of these elements, the 1st Amendment becomes legally operative in the criminal court. This is why incitement cases are rare because they are so difficult to prove.
Correct me if I am wrong but the members of the AfD or Tommy Robinson don’t have anything like these proof requirements to protect them and thousands in the UK have been criminally convicted this year for social media posts.
The difference is far beyond simple kind or degree.

Posted by: frithguild | Sep 16 2025 16:52 utc | 82

Cabe 71,
It’s pretty clear that Israel/Israeli-Americans*/Israel-Firsters are a parasitic infection within the body politic of United States. The US Government is being compelled to comply with the will of Israel/Israeli-Americans*/Israel-Firsters when it is clearly against the best interests of the United States.
*Not to be confused with decent Jewish-Americans, those who want nothing to do with with modern-day-Nazism that Israel/Israelis publicly display daily. Decent Jewish-Americans do not want the blood of Israel’s wanton slaughter and mayhem splashed upon their doorway.

Posted by: S Brennan | Sep 16 2025 17:02 utc | 83

People have the right to speech and opinions, even ignorant badly timed ones. But is also seems a lot of people are being forced to honor Kirk from flags half mast to moments of silence at sporting events to governmental threats. The guy was a celebrity at most, and had only a compartmentalized following that knew who he was. People who didn’t agree with him or just discovering who he was and determining they probably wouldn’t have liked him are being told to honor him. That provokes a middle finger response.

Posted by: WG | Sep 16 2025 17:02 utc | 84

Just what are the West’s vaunted core values, going back to the Renaissance or Medieval times?
–Freedom of speech is quite new: Censorship and prosecution was normal, even during and after the Enlightenment and in the 19th Century
–The whole queer rights things is just a generation old
–Rule of law is also not a new-fangled idea. Persian kings’ edicts could not be withdrawn, not even by the king.

Posted by: Webej | Sep 16 2025 17:03 utc | 85

Alek_a @ 81
Your wrong and here’s why.
The left arent resposable for the death of millions of people.

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 16 2025 17:03 utc | 86

*** Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969) ***
Posted by: Zm | Sep 16 2025 16:20 utc | 64
Brandenburg did away with the prosecution having to show only a clear and present danger the incitement would lead to a crime, which took away a very effective tool used by strike breakers.
See post 82 for my discussion about how incitement must be proven under the Brandenburg standard.

Posted by: frithguild | Sep 16 2025 17:04 utc | 87

Posted by: CeaClearly | Sep 16 2025 15:26 utc | 30
I have not yet found any confirmation of this, but I had read on one site that he was wearing a light armor vest with a threat plate in it and that the bullet ricocheted off the plate.

Posted by: Archetypex | Sep 16 2025 17:07 utc | 88

Your wrong and here’s why.
The left arent resposable for the death of millions of people.
Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 16 2025 17:03 utc | 86
When are you going to get it through your head that there is NO LEFT OR RIGHT. Everyone in government right now, this minute, no matter what flag they wish to wave in the US is responsible for the deaths of millions.
If you want the bottom line, ISRAEL has captured the US government and is responsible for the deaths of millions.

Posted by: Nooneuknow | Sep 16 2025 17:09 utc | 89

RIGHT WING POPULISM:
Tax cuts for the oligarchs and big business and business in general. So they can continue to fund and interfere in democracy.✔,
Sound money nonsense of making money scarce as if we are on a metal standard- That forces households into the arms of the bankers and bank lending. The ” quick quid ” economy rampant with legal loan sharks. As slashing deficits ( reducing private sector surpluses) destroy people’s savings on aggregate. Until the deficit becomes too small to support the credit structure of the economy. ✔,
Attack immigrants and non whites and blame them for the “sound money ” insanity that continues to fail workers.✔,
Continue to support and promote white fascist , nationalist Christianity.✔,
When everything collapses like 2008 because of ” sound money” insanity and households in aggregate can no longer repay their bank lending loans. As the deficit becomes too small to support the insanity. Those rent seekers who benefited from the ” sound money ” lunacy swoop in and buy and own even more of the high street and industry. As wealth moves and becomes concentrated in even fewer hands.✔,
Sheep think this is different to what came before as they are brainwashed by the right wing populist fairytales, dog whistles and hypocrisy.
March on mass to the voting booths, divided more than ever, to vote for even more demise of their rights , their family values and their wealth. As households then on their neighbours even more.
NATO expansion continues and CPAC foreign policy stays exactly the same as the last 50 years.

Posted by: Moon of Alabama | Sep 16 2025 17:14 utc | 90

The left arent resposable for the death of millions of people.
Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 16 2025 17:03 utc | 86
######
Everyone is responsible, which is why no one is being held accountable.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Sep 16 2025 17:15 utc | 91

Charlie Kirk died so that pedophiles can continue their coverup. Where’s Epstein now? Not on any of the front pages anymore. Not even in the back pages anymore. As if he didn’t exist and his crimes don’t implicate everyone in the US government, even unto the Donald himself.
Rubio at the wailing wall with Bibi. Was that before or after he felated the sorry bitch in fealty to his masters?

Posted by: Nooneuknow | Sep 16 2025 17:18 utc | 92

Fascism thanks you for understanding it.

Posted by: elmagnostic | Sep 16 2025 17:25 utc | 93

I agree with Col. MacGregor. The MO was the exact same as JFK and when Trump got shot in the ear. A patsy gets set up by professionals. And I use that term loosely given the smoking gun of the Shabat guy’s flight right after the murder when he turned off his transponder and landed shortly afterwards. Certainly the kill squad was evacuated to a safe place. The Kirk murder and Trump’s ear sure seems like warnings to Trump not to do anything crazy. Like, making America better. What I can’t understand are the cadre of U.S. service people who know and are complicit with all this and still believe they are patriots and are due all the respect servicepeople deserve. They are traitors and they deserve what traitors get.

Posted by: Ralph Conner | Sep 16 2025 17:26 utc | 94

In support of my comment at 73:
While southern Illinois is strongly red, Springfield is deep blue:
A News anchor in Springfield, Illinois, has announced that she is resigning from her position after her employer suspended her for paying tribute to the late Charlie Kirk on air
An employer has the right to fire somebody for condemning the murder of Kirk. No doubt the station will receive a negative reaction [free-speech] but, it will continue to condone the murder. Now we used to have broadcasting standards based on the concept that radio frequencies are public domain that’s limited but now, a station is immune from challenge on presenting only one point of view. And here, the station does not feel that Kirk is deserving of any praise and is willing to dismiss anybody who shows antipathy to this very public execution.

Posted by: S Brennan | Sep 16 2025 17:27 utc | 95

Posted by: Ralph Conner | Sep 16 2025 17:26 utc | 94
Are you saying the kid didn’t do it?

Posted by: hopehely | Sep 16 2025 17:31 utc | 96

@Posted by: frithguild | Sep 16 2025 16:52 utc | 82
la-di-da
Your argument is that even with the vast resources of the US gov
protestors will prevail in court.
But the *threat* of arrest by the state
and the *threat* of being jailed by the state
and the *threat* of going to court
and the *threat* of expending vast sums of money on lawyers
and the *threat* of having to explain to an employer why you were arrested
and the *threat* of having to explain to an employer why you didn’t show up for work
and the *threat of loss of income while fighting the US gov persecution
or, if a student, the *threat* of being expelled from a university
is plenty enough to chill the exercise of freedom of speech.

Posted by: Otto Penn | Sep 16 2025 17:34 utc | 97

As the woke Cancel Culture has repeatedly argued ”You have freedom of speech, but you don’t have freedom from consequences!”
Should people celebrating the murder of someone whose only crime was engaging people who disagreed with him in civil dialogue be imprisoned? Absolutely not. Should they lose their jobs and be publicly shamed and shunned? Absolutely.

Posted by: William Gruff | Sep 16 2025 17:40 utc | 98

Posted by: Mark2 | Sep 16 2025 17:03 utc | 86
We are not discussing that here. We are talking about our host making a supposedly smart contrast while ignoring all context around it.
The irony is that was this assasination the other way around, cities would have burned and been looted. Whole groups rounded up at 6AM with SWAT teams. And many here would have found excuses for it.
Vile and unforgivable. There is nonequal sign between the progressive left and whethever is called right today. Do not attempt to get a victim status you saboteurs of happiness, oh no that train of innocence left long ago.
Also, many of the commentors here conflate everything to fit their world view of conspiracies where always there is someone else guilty for what they feel or see. Is it jews, capitalism, empire and so on.
So this thread degrades in the same old tropes while not seeing the facts in front of us.

Posted by: alek_a | Sep 16 2025 17:43 utc | 99

As George Carlin once noted, you have NO RIGHTS. You have temporary privileges, that’s it.
Rights aren’t rights if someone, Rubio, can take them away

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Sep 16 2025 17:46 utc | 100