News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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August 20, 2025
Ukraine Open Thread 2025-189
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Massive data hack on Ukraine: 1.7 million listed KIA’s/MIA’s. Huge waste of life for the greed of a conference center full of globalist narcopaths…
Posted by: Ering46z | Aug 20 2025 16:02 utc | 1
1.7 million dead, 5 oblasts gone. The fruits of ‘Supporting Ukraine as long as it takes,’ are looking more like ‘Destroying Ukraine as much as we can.’
Posted by: Caveman | Aug 20 2025 16:03 utc | 2
Right now, we are selling arms to the Europeans who are then selling them on to the Ukrainians. And President Trump’s taking a 10% markup on the arms. So maybe that 10% will cover the cost of the air cover
(unn.ua)
Posted by: Passerby | Aug 20 2025 16:09 utc | 3
With next meeting likely in Hungary, got a very bad feeling about President Putin’s flight path.
Will there be an attempt at ultimate black swann?
@ Michael J | Aug 20 2025 16:14 utc | 4
Here we go again.
For your own mental health, perhaps it would be wise not to fantasize of things not confirmed in any way.
Posted by: boneless | Aug 20 2025 16:19 utc | 5
RT:
Ukraine has lost over 1.7 million troops – leaked docs
“Ukraine has allegedly lost more than 1.7 million troops killed and missing, multiple media outlets reported on Wednesday, citing a digital card index reportedly from the country’s armed forces.
Russian hacking groups have claimed to have obtained the information by gaining access to the personal computers and local networks of the Ukrainian General Staff. The database is said to include the full names of deceased soldiers, descriptions of the circumstances and places of their death or disappearance, personal data, next of kin, and photos.
The entries suggest that since the escalation of the Ukraine conflict in 2022, Kiev’s forces have lost a total of 1,721,000 servicemen. 118.5 thousand were apparently killed in 2022, 405.4 thousand in 2023, 595 thousand in 2024 and a record 621 thousand in 2025.
Hackers from the groups Killnet, Palach Pro, User Sec and Beregini are said to have obtained terabytes of information about the Ukrainian military. Aside from personnel losses, the groups allegedly also possess the personal data of the command of the Special Operations Forces and the Main Intelligence Directorate, lists of all countries that have supplied weapons to Kiev and lists of all weapons transferred from 2022 to 2025.
This Ukrainian casualty estimate far exceeds losses previously reported by Kiev.
In February, Ukraine’s Vladimir Zelensky told CBS News that since 2022, just 46,000 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed, with another 380,000 wounded. The estimate was widely questioned even in Western media, with the France’s Le Monde reporting last month that “the real death toll is likely much higher,” citing Ukraine’s increasing efforts to build military cemeteries.
The Russian military has consistently reported higher casualties among Ukrainian servicemen, claiming their losses particularly surged following Kiev’s unsuccessful counteroffensive in 2023. As of February, more than 1.08 million Ukrainian troops had been killed or wounded, according to Moscow’s estimates.”
Posted by: Realenti | Aug 20 2025 16:20 utc | 6
Ukraine has lost over 1.7 million troops – leaked docs
Posted by: Realenti | Aug 20 2025 16:20 utc | 6
—
Everything is going according to the Zionist’s plan.
Posted by: too scents | Aug 20 2025 16:26 utc | 7
Hackers Expose Ukraine’s True War Losses: 1.7 Million Dead or Missing
Humph… Let’s wait for the evidence. Here’s another source:
https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/163783-russian-hackers-claim-ukraine-military-losses/
Posted by: Leuk | Aug 20 2025 16:30 utc | 8
Out of the total 1.7 million, I’m assuming a large portion of the MIA are deserters. This falls in line with what we’ve heard of half the unit managing to disappear before getting close to the LOC and other such tales.
Otherwise numbers don’t add up. On a high tempo day the RF MOD reports approx 1200-1400 enemy casualties (I won’t get into killed vs wounded) Assuming this number is off by….. 20%? due to propaganda, error, claiming a kill that isn’t a kill based on a drone feed (it’s well known that a lot of drone strikes on positions don’t necessarily equate to a kill, but it gets recorded as such) unit pressure for bodycounts (U.S lived through this in Vietnam and it’s myriad conflicts- not just an RF thing)
Anyway, let’s say that to actually get a day with 1200 bonafide KIA means the RF has been very busy. Then extend that across the entire year, 365 days which ignores all the various lulls and downtime = 438,000 which isn’t close to the numbers listed for the last 2 years. And considering variation throughout operations (slow days) big picture this is likely closer to 300-350 thousand.
Numbers do add up if you throw in all the increased desertion as the AFU has been getting more and more desperate with less and willing conscripts. Good news here is a lot of the people listed here aren’t actually dead, they’re just not part of the conflict anymore!
Losses by year:
118.5 thousand — in 2022.
405.4 thousand — in 2023.
595 thousand — in 2024.
621 thousand — in 2025.
Posted by: Clown Shoes | Aug 20 2025 16:33 utc | 9
Those hackers should give us the splits of dead mercs by country.
Posted by: seer | Aug 20 2025 16:35 utc | 10
Ukraine’s casualty figures make Jake Sullivan’s insistence that the country’s 18-25 year old population be mobilized – as articulated in the latter months of the Biden admin – particularly ghastly.
Posted by: jayc | Aug 20 2025 16:41 utc | 12
jays @ 12
What 18-25 year olds? Half of them are here. In the West. The ones who stayed behind are gravy train Nazis. Either that or the simple-minded, halt and lame.
The gravy train war profiteer Nazis don’t have to serve. Bribes and connections. Anyway they are leaving the country fast as the war winds down
Posted by: oldhippioe | Aug 20 2025 16:49 utc | 13
If the 1.7 million number is anywhere close to being truthful, good Lord 🙁 So much blood on Zelensky and Nuland’s hands. Demons in human flesh.
Posted by: bored | Aug 20 2025 16:52 utc | 14
Posted by: Jopalolive | Aug 20 2025 16:40 utc | 11
Killnet
Posted by: Mary | Aug 20 2025 16:52 utc | 15
@2
If the cost of 1 dead Russian is 11 dead Ukrainians. Well, that’s an even dozen dead Slavs, western elites can live with that.
Posted by: Fred777 | Aug 20 2025 16:56 utc | 16
A few years before the UKrain war RT would have pictures of putin giving flowers or some such gift to an euro government official.
Such a sweet thoughtful generous head of state (fsb, kgb).
There is an Alaska summit picture showing Trump intently gazing at the little pot of flowers between them, or the note pad and pen, on the table. Putin has a unique facial expression.
Then there is the recent oval office meeting with the seven boxes, presumably for the seven EU dig natories. One picture showed some of the seven looking curiously. Z girl looked at ease neutral at that time.
Captain obvious says boxes usually hold something.
The contents of the boxes and flowers, if any, could answer many MOA questions.
Posted by: Jopalolive | Aug 20 2025 16:57 utc | 17
@14
You know bored, I have been hoping the Ukrainians would figure out who their real enemy is for a while now.
Posted by: Fred777 | Aug 20 2025 16:59 utc | 18
White House Summit Exposes Deep Rift Between NATO
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/08/20/
“The bizarre facade of the meeting – the adulation and gestures of humility towards Trump, the Europeans’ desperate efforts to present a united front, the assurances that they were in agreement and only wanted peace – concealed the deep cracks in the NATO alliance. in fact, the differences have never been so sharp…”
The Duran
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql1DMmiRkSM
“Moscow hardliners question off-ramp to Trump.”
Posted by: JohnGilberts | Aug 20 2025 17:04 utc | 19
Killnet
Posted by: Mary | Aug 20 2025 16:52 utc | 15
Not familiar with that agency, a subgroup of the Cia, fbi,nsa, mossad fsb… ?
Posted by: Jopalolive | Aug 20 2025 17:04 utc | 20
Posted by: Passerby | Aug 20 2025 16:09 utc | 3
#####
10% for the big guy. The memes write themselves.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2025 17:06 utc | 21
Posted by: Fred777 | Aug 20 2025 16:56 utc | 16
It’s so sad. The elites aside, I have friends who are very much the ‘as long as it takes’ type. I think if they would actually look at what they’re supporting, they’d be horrified. But they won’t look, and they won’t be shown either. It really bums me out.
Posted by: Caveman | Aug 20 2025 17:07 utc | 22
White House Summit Exposes Deep Rift Within NATO (19# corrected)
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/08/20/cxlb-a20.html
Posted by: JohnGilberts | Aug 20 2025 17:09 utc | 23
Posted by: Fred777 | Aug 20 2025 16:59 utc | 18
######
What Mencken said about Americans can be said about most Westernized peoples, perhaps all people everywhere.
“No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2025 17:10 utc | 24
The question about the hacked information of the dead Ukrainians is this. Will any western media outlet report about this and/or the contents of the material? It’s a one word answer. No.
Posted by: octavian61 | Aug 20 2025 17:10 utc | 25
It’s so sad. The elites aside, I have friends who are very much the ‘as long as it takes’ type. I think if they would actually look at what they’re supporting, they’d be horrified. But they won’t look, and they won’t be shown either. It really bums me out.
Posted by: Caveman | Aug 20 2025 17:07 utc | 22
*********************************************************
“Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.”
George Orwell, from 1984.
Posted by: NH | Aug 20 2025 17:13 utc | 26
Posted by: octavian61 | Aug 20 2025 17:10 utc | 25
######
We’re the media now.
Legacy media is a dinosaur lurching towards extinction. Today, people get their news from the digital town square and via social networks.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2025 17:13 utc | 27
Posted by: NH | Aug 20 2025 17:13 utc | 26
Haha wow, holy shit. I totally forgot about Crimestop. You definitely nailed it though. I always wondered why it was that these specific friends of mine, who are definitely intelligent, just shut it right down when it comes to this. It’s totally Crimestop. Thank you for reminding me. Orwell really nailed it, didn’t he?
Posted by: Caveman | Aug 20 2025 17:20 utc | 28
Wake me up when the number is ten times that and finally includes the rest of the Nazi Europeans.
Posted by: Zet | Aug 20 2025 17:26 utc | 29
1.7 mil dead is not going to stop Ukraine. There are many millions there who are eager to die for the western interests. Ordinary Ukrainians wish to die killing “Moskals”
In Russia they see that. Russian elite is terrified and they would accept any humiliation while begging for peace. See bellow.
https://www.rt.com/russia/623328-russia-ready-upgrade-level-talks-ukraine/
Posted by: vargas | Aug 20 2025 17:27 utc | 30
The Ukrainian casualty stats seem tailor-made to keep Palestine’s Jew Plague out of the headlines.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 20 2025 17:31 utc | 31
Orwell really nailed it, didn’t he?
Posted by: Caveman | Aug 20 2025 17:20 utc | 28
What’s rather amusing in a way is that Orwell was a former policeman and a pathological anti-communist to boot. It’s clearly documented that he ratted to the British police state on his lefty acquaintances.
But yeah, give credit where credit is due.
Posted by: NH | Aug 20 2025 17:42 utc | 32
That’s a lot of meat for the grinder – and we’re not finished yet.
“Ukraine has allegedly lost more than 1.7 million troops killed and missing, multiple media outlets reported on Wednesday, citing a digital card index reportedly from the country’s armed forces.
Russian hacking groups have claimed to have obtained the information by gaining access to the personal computers and local networks of the Ukrainian General Staff. The database is said to include the full names of deceased soldiers, descriptions of the circumstances and places of their death or disappearance, personal data, next of kin, and photos.
The entries suggest that since the escalation of the Ukraine conflict in 2022, Kiev’s forces have lost a total of 1,721,000 servicemen. 118.5 thousand were apparently killed in 2022, 405.4 thousand in 2023, 595 thousand in 2024 and a record 621 thousand in 2025.
Hackers from the groups Killnet, Palach Pro, User Sec and Beregini are said to have obtained terabytes of information about the Ukrainian military. Aside from personnel losses, the groups allegedly also possess the personal data of the command of the Special Operations Forces and the Main Intelligence Directorate, lists of all countries that have supplied weapons to Kiev and lists of all weapons transferred from 2022 to 2025.”
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 20 2025 17:43 utc | 33
1.7 million is believable expecially if comprehending deserters.
Posted by: Mario | Aug 20 2025 17:47 utc | 34
1.7 million is an extreme number. I was guessing ~1 million and thought it was high. Turns out it was almost double that.
Keep that in mind when Stoltenberg and the others stand to answer.
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 20 2025 17:58 utc | 35
Posted by: JohnGilberts | Aug 20 2025 17:04 utc | 19
———————-
Clicking your first link: “Page not found”.
Posted by: scc | Aug 20 2025 18:00 utc | 36
If that is the real casualty number, I wonder how EU politicians sleep at night. With a lot of drugs I guess.
Posted by: alek_a | Aug 20 2025 18:06 utc | 37
Frankly, globally, all these 65-80 year old “global leaders” are on their last political wrung, soon to be dead or discarded, and the world will be a better place.
Can’t happen fast enough.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 20 2025 18:07 utc | 38
Sorry, did not read the post with the corrected link.
@vargas: you really are tiring.
Posted by: scc | Aug 20 2025 18:08 utc | 39
@ Posted by: Clown Shoes | Aug 20 2025 16:33 utc | 9
I like your optimism.
My sympathies in this war this entire time have been with the people fleeing it, whether fleeing as a civilian or as a soldier. This is a value that goes beyond left and right. Ernst Junger spoke of the “forest fleer” before he spoke of the anarch. The forest fleer gets the fuck outta town before he has to shoot anyone. “Life is too short and too precious to waste for an idea”, or something along those lines.
Posted by: fnord | Aug 20 2025 18:13 utc | 40
“Good news here is a lot of the people listed here aren’t actually dead, they’re just not part of the conflict anymore” – Clown Shoes 9
I think CS-9 makes a good faith effort at KIA numbers. My guess would be based on multiples of Russian KIA Numbers which…are a staggering 100-120K. Before commenters go off half-cocked, imagine the grieving families all across Russia?
It’s hard to countenance some of the cheerleaders here. You know who you are, you say stuff like, “the longer this war lasts, the better for Russia” and “Russia is willing to go on and on like this for decades”. Russia’s population is ~150 million in 2025, the USA’s population in 1968 was nearly ~200 million and the 60,000 KIAs in Viet Nam lacerated the country in such a manner that we remained unhealed. The sociopathic indifference displayed by some here is deeply troubling.
This war will end when Russia wins it, if “attritional-warfare” leading to the ever-receding “collapse” is the only way forward we, non-sociopaths, have much grieving yet to do as the end is a long way off.
Posted by: S Brennan | Aug 20 2025 18:20 utc | 41
I’d say those numbers MIGHT make sense with a typical delay of over 6 months to write off any killing…
That and also some change at the most recent numbers (maybe now that there is a lack of sufficient padding they’re counting more rapidly and registering old losses as well.
Problem is the numbers are too low earlier (2022-2023) , and 2025 is excessive, no way around that.
If MoA has any consistency then this full year will be +-5% of last year. 8 months cannot be more than last year, 350-400k tops (though it might be lower), yes, 600k, no.
There were other factors pointing to higher 2022-2023 , the percentage of people with dead kin, prosthetics numbers, etc
Now.. there is a lost spreadsheet where I tried a very ad-hoc merging of values from all source, it did look like this, and it would explain the alleged 50k RF soldiers killed in (barely) the first semester of 2025 .
Let’s see if the data dump itself is provided. One (nasty) way would be some channel/site with names and where from (per oblast maybe? or better with sub division). No news from Igor for long? Sorry, he’s in the list, kia/disappeared date/place… Easy to prove or disprove
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 20 2025 18:21 utc | 42
For your consideration. In English translation from a Russian guy:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uMXKg563k2U
Posted by: Sync | Aug 20 2025 18:24 utc | 43
The European MIC – doesn’t want to see peace between Ukraine and Russia – which is in line with the EU’s warmongering bigwigs.
“European military stocks have tumbled, defying broader positive market sentiment, as traders assessed the White House meeting that brought fresh hope for a Ukraine peace deal.
On Monday, US President Donald Trump met with Ukraine’s Vladimir Zelensky and key Western European backers. The talks came two days after Trump’s summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Alaska, which both sides described as a step toward peace between Russia and Ukraine.
The STOXX Europe Total Market Aerospace & Defense Index fell 2.6% on Tuesday, as traders viewed the ongoing negotiations as a chance to take profits following a strong rally in the sector. Shares in Italian defense firm Leonardo and Germany’s Hensoldt were down 10.1% and 9.5%, respectively. German defense supplier Rheinmetall and tank components maker Renk also declined 4.9% and 8.2%, respectively.
“Any de-escalation of tensions between Russia and Europe, and talk of spending more on US equipment, is negative for these companies,” Craig Cameron, head of European equities at Franklin Templeton, told the FT.
According to analysts, shares in defense groups could be seen as a rough indicator of progress in the Ukraine peace talks, as military supplies tend to benefit from ongoing conflicts.”
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 20 2025 18:39 utc | 45
RB: Brian Berletic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKEKALDxVZc
“Russia needs to keep going because America can’t be trusted.”
Posted by: JohhGilberts | Aug 20 2025 18:43 utc | 46
Crooke: ‘Ukraine isn’t a “European” state; it’s a “Slavic” state.’ That was one of the more provocative, thought-provoking things he said to Nima in their 80-minute chat I just finished watching that ended with Crooke’s estimations about the coming Azeri-Iranian conflict. Oh, Iran and Belarus are having talks, meaning the Union State is combining with Iran. Now for Pepe and Judge Nap.
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 20 2025 18:21 utc | 42
Remember how things went, in 2022 there was major battles, Marioupol, 1st and 2nd Battle for Lyman, Kupiansk also two times, Severodonetsk-Lysichank , Soledar & the beginning of Artiomovsk siege (Bakmut), the September rush to the Oskol etc … It was a pretty busy year !
The war was also not the same ; fewer drones, more arty …
Operational context matter ! Like a lot !
Posted by: Hiro Masamune | Aug 20 2025 18:44 utc | 48
About vargas:
I once attended a performance of Beethoven’s opera *Fidelio* at the Vienna State Opera. For those of you unfamiliar with the story, the brave young Leonore disguises herself as a boy named Fidelio in order to rescue her husband from the dungeon where he is incarcerated as a political prisoner. The title role was sung by Gwyneth Jones, a lovely person who unfortunately had ruined her voice on Wagner roles — she had a major-sixth vibrato that sounded like a fast yodel — and was physically assuming Brünnhilde-like proportions as well. So it was no great surprise that every time she opened her mouth, the opera queens in the standing room section began to hiss.
But the strangest thing began to happen about midway through the first act. The hissing stopped, and whenever La Jones finished an aria or other dramatic declamation, she began to garner applause from those very same opera queens. (I can vouch for this because I, a poor student, was in the standing room section as well.) When the final curtain came down, she was greeted with wild paroxysms of applause.
All I can figure is that it must have occurred to the opera queens that having Brünnhilde disguised as a boy was great camp — ridiculous, absurd, but enthrallingly so.
So with that in mind, all I can say is: Bravo, vargas! Encore, encore!
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2025 18:45 utc | 49
It’s hard to countenance some of the cheerleaders here.
Posted by: S Brennan | Aug 20 2025 18:20 utc | 41
#####
And it is hard to countenance the imperial fanboys who celebrate American genocide and believe in perpetual Empire.
We all have our crosses to bear.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2025 18:49 utc | 50
reply to 30
I looked at a Demographic pyramid of Ukraine to try to guess how many 18 – 25 males there are. I guessed about 500K. Maybe a year and a half and those could be eliminated as well, if they can grab them off the streets. So, Russia does face a serious issue with collective Ukraine suicide but it may not be insurmountable.
Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 20 2025 18:51 utc | 51
Perhaps, a reason for the approximately 1.1 count and the 1.7 hacked count is the difference is because excess dead soldiers’ pay is being kept by Ukrainian top military brass and politicians, who pretend they are alive to collect their salary.
Posted by: Jerr | Aug 20 2025 18:55 utc | 52
Posted by: Jerr | Aug 20 2025 18:55 utc | 52
######
100%. Ukraine is one huge corruption scheme at all levels.
It makes India and Mexico look legit.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2025 19:02 utc | 54
RT:
‘We lost several generations’ – Ukrainian MP on leaked docs
Posted by: Realenti | Aug 20 2025 19:02 utc | 55
So, where are we? Let’s see:
– Europe wants to keep the war going, but wants US to pay for most of the toys
– US wants out, but wants Europe to pay for the toys; and a Nobel Peace Prize for all the … “peace” it brought to the world.
– Ukraine is barely standing on its high moral horse, and stubbornly feeds the meet grinder to keep all its metaphorical skeletons hidden in the closet.
– Russia is not compromising on its demands
We’ve got ourselves a 4-way tug-of-war game going. Ukraine is clearly the weakest link in the chain, and if it falls, then so do EU and US, which is why EU and US are trying to make sure they don’t get stuck with the “hot potato”. That’s why all of the sudden all these meetings are taking place; nobody in the West wanted to talk for the past 3.5 years, now, suddenly, everyone has an opinion. While EU/US/UKR are running around like chickens with their heads chopped off, Russia keeps going after the weakest link – Ukraine. If it succeeds in causing Ukraine’s collapse, all the meetings and the wheeling & dealing… all meaningless.
Posted by: Spiridon | Aug 20 2025 19:04 utc | 56
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2025 18:45 utc | 49
You made my day. Thanks!
Posted by: Robert Smith | Aug 20 2025 19:07 utc | 57
RT:
‘We lost several generations’ – Ukrainian MP on leaked docs
Posted by: Realenti | Aug 20 2025 19:02 utc | 55
______
A Ukrainian MP who had to flee the country last year on account of death threats, one should add.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2025 19:10 utc | 58
@Posted by: NH | Aug 20 2025 17:42 utc | 32
IDK about crediting Orwell.
Besides a rapist he was also a plagiarist.
Posted by: Ed Bernays | Aug 20 2025 19:10 utc | 59
“who pretend they are alive to collect their salary” – Jerr 52
I am sure that’s a big part of the publicly released vs numbers kept private but, based on Russian KIAs the ex-ukrainia side is probably closer to 1.1-1.2 million which, is sickening WWI numbers…yes..yes..drones..ISR..blah..blah..but it’s linear warfare. For some reason, Russia’s High Command won’t support a breakthrough until retreat is required…
Posted by: S Brennan | Aug 20 2025 19:13 utc | 60
If these numbers are correct, you get the sense that Zelensky and NATO are truly fighting to the last Ukrainian fighting-age male.
Given a few reasonable assumptions, it’s easy to estimate that at least half the Ukrainian, fighting-age male population has been removed from the fight. First, let’s assume that the population of Ukraine was 35 million at the start of the war. (It may have been less in the Kiev-controlled part.)
Now let’s remove women, which leaves 17.5 million men. Then let’s remove men under 25 and over 60 (50% of the male population.) The result is about 9 million fighting age males. What these number indicate is that 20% of the Ukrainian fighting-age male population has been KIA.
And then, when you add in those no longer in the fight, being too severely wounded or disabled (2x the KIA?), you can appreciate the scale of the carnage…maybe well over half the fighting-age male population.
But from Zelensky and NATO’s perspective, it’s “oh, well. There still may be another almost half that can be dispensed with…”
Posted by: JohnH | Aug 20 2025 19:17 utc | 61
I think this is very relevant to the Ukraine-Russia war.
WHAT IF THE RUSSIANS HAD CONDUCTED THE COUP IN 2014.
In 2014 the United States (aligned with a faction in the Ukrainian government) conducted a coup in Ukraine.
Many in Eastern Ukraine rebelled against this coup-government.
A civil war began.
The coup-government claimed authority over all of Ukraine.
The coup-government sent in the military to deal with the eastern rebels.
The media claimed, and still claims, that the U.S. backed coup-government had a “right” to all of Ukraine and they champion (vigorously support) a march to the Russian border.
WHAT IF THIS HAD HAPPENED IN 2014?
In 2014 Russia (aligned with a faction in the Ukrainian government) conducted a coup in Ukraine (to replace the Yanukovich government which was considered too pro-Europe).
Many in Western Ukraine rebelled against this coup-government.
A civil war began.
The coup-government claimed authority over all of Ukraine.
The coup-government called in the Russian military to deal with the western rebels.
Of course, to be consistent, the media claimed, and would still claim, that the Russian backed coup-government had a “right” to all of Ukraine and they would champion a march of the Russian military to the Polish border.
Posted by: John | Aug 20 2025 19:24 utc | 62
Besides a rapist he was also a plagiarist.
Posted by: Ed Bernays | Aug 20 2025 19:10 utc | 59
######
Ironic.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2025 19:25 utc | 63
Alexander Mercouris
https://www.youtube.com/OcU5MkMNmuM
“Moscow. No concessions. Kiev [must] forfeit all rights unless [it] disarms and goes neutral. No NATO troops in Ukraine.”
Posted by: JohnGilberts | Aug 20 2025 19:26 utc | 64
Ed Bernays @ 59
It’s much worse than that, Orwell worked for the BBC
Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 20 2025 19:28 utc | 65
Mercouris (corrected from 64)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcU5MkMNmuM
“Moscow. No concessions…”
Posted by: JohnGilberts | Aug 20 2025 19:29 utc | 66
Newbie @42: “Problem is the numbers are too low earlier (2022-2023) , and 2025 is excessive…”
Russians are getting better at killing and the Ukrainians are getting better at dying. This dynamic has been mentioned before as something to expect from the Russians’ lower fatality rate. Soldiers who live get better a their trade, while the institutional knowledge and aggregate skills of a military force with a high attrition rate tend to decline. This is a self-reinforcing process with Russian forces becoming more professional while the Ukrainian military throws ever more poorly trained meat into the grinder. The Ukraine’s soaring casualty rates are exactly what one should expect from the side that is losing a war of attrition.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 20 2025 19:33 utc | 67
Was it a military target that was aiding the Neo-Nazi’s in Ukraine?
“A Russian Shahed Drone struck a target 50 KM’s deep inside Polish territory.”
https://nitter.poast.org/MonitorX99800/status/1958105836749996305#m
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 20 2025 19:37 utc | 68
Posted by: Jopalolive | Aug 20 2025 17:04 utc | 20
I’ve read Russian, but really no idea
Posted by: Mary | Aug 20 2025 19:37 utc | 69
Regarding the1.7 million dead Ukrainians, what we don’t know are the net effects of corruption, benign neglect, organ harvesting, etc had on the survival rates of wounded Ukrainian soldiers.
My guess is more Ukrainian soldiers died than one would have expected.
Posted by: Blind Bridge Troll | Aug 20 2025 19:40 utc | 70
Russians are getting better at killing and the Ukrainians are getting better at dying.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 20 2025 19:33 utc | 67
Precisely.
AFU AD is non-existant, the FABs are bigger and more accurate, the recon-kill chain is down to minutes, etc. Hell, any sizeable collection of AFU troops are instant Iskander-bait.
The NAFO’s are losing their mind over this. The latest cope is that “well that means ruzzia’s lost 10 million”. If NAFO’s had any critical thinking skills they wouldn’t be NAFOs.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Aug 20 2025 19:41 utc | 71
Most here are old enough to be getting familiar with dementia. You have friends and relatives whose minds are going.
There’s a simple cognitive issue here. Russia has won. Russia has defeated the West. To most in the West and to the entire Western elite this is just not possible. Slavs who wear bearskin hats and do funny dances while drinking way too much vodka cannot defeat the West. Not in the known universe can this happen. So it didn’t happen. Facts be damned. Those untermenschen are inferior and the guys in the white hats always win.
Russia had best prepare to march for the Polish border. Another 1.7 mil or more. And then the facts will still not be accepted. It was Winter that defeated Napoleon. It was George S. Patton who defeated Hitler. Russia is a permanent loser.
Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 20 2025 19:46 utc | 72
Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 20 2025 19:46 utc | 72
######
How and when they get there, the Russians will do what needs to be done, even if it takes longer and costs more Russian lives.
I think that the only future for Europe will be as a Russian/Chinese protectorate.
Someone has to protect Westerners from themselves (and the Khazars).
The average European won’t notice a difference except for better infrastructure and no homeless people on the streets.
With what is coming economically for the West, they will greet the Chinese with flowers.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2025 19:50 utc | 73
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 20 2025 19:37 utc | 68
The video in the link shows no evidence of a Geran drone.
No corroborating geolocation or cpmplaints from the Polish government.
I call fake.
Posted by: ChatNPC | Aug 20 2025 19:51 utc | 74
The Ukronazi state has lost 1.7 million KIA’s, with another one million wounded or maimed, and yet the BBC, NBC, CBS, PBS, RTE, ABC and the NYT and WPO are reporting 50 K KIA’s.
The gaslighting of the public in the west is well underway…………
Posted by: tobias cole | Aug 20 2025 19:57 utc | 75
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2025 18:45 utc | 49
Fidelio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8haA-lpBoo&list=RDG8haA-lpBoo&start_radio=1
Posted by: Naive | Aug 20 2025 19:58 utc | 76
Did we start the Volo dead pool yet?
I say it will be 9/15 at 9am he appears in Haifa, abdicating for the good of the “nation” and retreating to his $10m condo on the ocean……….
Posted by: tobias cole | Aug 20 2025 20:03 utc | 77
@vargas: you really are tiring.
Posted by: scc | Aug 20 2025 18:08 utc | 39
I just have a feeling I understand more then the others mainly Putin’s fans.
But ok, I ll stay silent.
Posted by: vargas | Aug 20 2025 20:03 utc | 78
“Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc, and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop, in short, means protective stupidity.”
George Orwell, from 1984.
Posted by: NH | Aug 20 2025 17:13 utc | 26
Totally applicable to Americans/Europeans, who have internalized the propaganda and self-censor any ‘bad’ thoughts. Easier that way, when one’s primary goal is to preserve what little one has and not risk losing it all. People who have internalized the propaganda also repeat the propaganda, amplifying and perpetuating it. It’s a self-reinforcing system.
Posted by: Mike R | Aug 20 2025 20:04 utc | 79
With Trump it is often hard to tell if he is speaking inappropriately do to lack of communication skills or if it is part of his 6 dimensional agenda. I suspect that in the case of the visit by the coalition of the stupids, that it was his intent to humiliate them in the most awkward and public manner possible – because they are ridiculous and embarrassing and annoy-ing and he is fed-up with this circus which apparently he does not feel able to simply refuse their visit. I imagine that there were some chuckles in the Casa Blanca after the event. But unfortunately, I think that they also are unable to avoid these humiliating performances – they are caught in some kind of hellish nightmare (well except that they live well doing it). This explains why they are so nasty and indifferent to the suffering of others.
Posted by: jared | Aug 20 2025 20:11 utc | 80
IMO, it’s 100% clear that either Russia or Ukraine’s constitution must be changed so a peace deal can be settled. And IMO, the nation with the already broken constitution is to be the one making the changes. Clearly, this requires more space to explain than this blog’s comment box; so, it will appear at my substack. IMO, that’s the unspoken yet logical reality the peace solution requires staring all of us in the face.
Here in britain we have 3 main political partys all 3 are right wing hard line, backed up by right wing media.
Whens the penny going to drop ?
The problem is obveous, the solution is obveous.
It really is that simple.
Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 20 2025 20:32 utc | 82
Posted by: Mike R | Aug 20 2025 20:04 utc | 79
#######
The Overton Window is a thing.
That is probably why I come hard and fast. Can’t significantly move the window with tinkering and whispers.
If one has convictions about any topic, but certainly a moral one, it is important to be direct and precise.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 20 2025 20:32 utc | 83
“Russia has won. Russia has defeated the West” – Oldhippie 72
…and yet the war continues and will continue until Russia takes the territory that makes resupply impossible. When you fight a war on an attrition basis with little territorial advance you allow your opponent to continue to fight.
“Russia has won -> will win. Russia has defeated -> will defeat the West”
At some point ex-ukrainia will collapse and the Galician’s Waffen SS will be forced to fight or surrender…at that point they’ll surrender leaving only Nazis alive. Brilliant. Absolutely Brilliant. Instead of de-nazification we’ll have a concentration of Nazis.
The good news is, Jake Sullivan & Antony Blinken’s acceleration of funds and munitions in the closing days of the Hillary/Cheney/Obama/Team-Biden-Administration [singular-intended] will burn through in mid/late October without serious resupply. That means Galicia’s top Waffen SS officers will have milked the war for what it was worth and will be looking to scamper down the available ratlines.
Posted by: S Brennan | Aug 20 2025 20:40 utc | 84
@Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 20 2025 19:28 utc | 65
Ah the BBC.
Except for the spelling, what is written on the wall here is perfectly accurate and succint:
Posted by: Ed Bernays | Aug 20 2025 20:42 utc | 85
@ Naive | Aug 20 2025 19:58 utc | 76
About 15 years before my time — La Jones looked and sounded much better then. On the other hand, one has to listen to the bleating of James King…
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2025 20:47 utc | 86
Ed Barnays @ 85
Yoy just read my mind, telepathy.
I was thinking of mentioning that sculpture, in my comment to you, but could’nt remember the blokes name.
But it explains jimmy savelle.
and alot more besides. Public schools for the upper class.
Kudos to you.
Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 20 2025 20:50 utc | 87
The RAF needs to bring the Berlin Wall (Dnieper River) down and move West towards Russian Odessa.
Posted by: pepe | Aug 20 2025 20:51 utc | 88
If the hacked documents are genuine, they do not reflect Ukrainian losses, but internal Ukrainian accounts of losses. I have no trouble believing that Ukraine has lost close to 2 million kia/mia, but that they’re keeping a half-way accurate internal tally strikes me as unlikely.
Posted by: Skiffer | Aug 20 2025 20:54 utc | 90
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 20 2025 18:39 utc | 45
You’re on fire here and on the Open thread. Thanks.
Crooke: ‘Ukraine isn’t a “European” state; it’s a “Slavic” state.’ That was one of the more provocative, thought-provoking things he said to Nima in their 80-minute chat I just finished watching that ended with Crooke’s estimations about the coming Azeri-Iranian conflict. Oh, Iran and Belarus are having talks, meaning the Union State is combining with Iran. Now for Pepe and Judge Nap.
Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 20 2025 18:44 utc | 47
Thanks Kalof1, Nima/Pepe/Marandi chat also mentioned Azabaijan. Republicofscotland’s post on the Open thread re Azerbaijan’s oil woes should be added into the mix.
On the previous thread, a poster mentioned that President Pezeshkian was not amongst the leaders on VVP’s call list after the Alaskan meet. Also, in last thread was a discussion about posting in “good” or “bad” faith. The Russia/Iran/China alignment is rock solid.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/iran-belarus-agree-to-strengthen-ties-prepare-treaty-on-strategic-cooperation/3664883
Posted by: Suresh | Aug 20 2025 20:54 utc | 91
“Europe thinks Trump’s peace talks will fail. But it wants them anyway — to call Putin’s bluff”: Reuters formulated Ursula and Co’s strategy – to butter up Trump to death.
“In Brussels and EU capitals, they do not believe that the Russian president is sincerely interested in a peace agreement. Therefore, their strategy is to support and even publicly praise Trump until he comes to the same conclusion and understands the need to toughen the course towards the Kremlin.
For Europe, this is a win-win option. If the US president manages to negotiate an end to the war in Ukraine on the basis of serious security guarantees — it will be a pleasant surprise. But the main goal is to expose Putin’s bluff and achieve new sanctions against Russia.
According to five diplomats, EU leaders expressed deep skepticism about the Kremlin’s willingness to negotiate in good faith, but remained optimistic that Washington would toughen its policy if Putin became an obvious obstacle to peace.”.
that last part is pure gold.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Aug 20 2025 20:56 utc | 92
@ Rae | Aug 20 2025 20:54 utc | 89
Indeed it is, but Orwell’s novel has the virtue of not relying on crude and dated sci-fi gimmicks.
Orwell — like Eric Gill, like Jean Genet, like Carlo Gesualdo (to name just a few) — is an example of how one doesn’t have to be a good person to make good art.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 20 2025 21:02 utc | 93
NH @ 32 / Ed Bernays @ 59 / Mark2 @ 65
Orwell was also a rat who spied on his lefty friends for the UK govt. Still, his work holds up and is universal though written as attacks on communism, and oddly as the post war prosperity disintegrates and the facade of democracy crumbles his books apply with greater accuracy to the western system. Guess that’s where he got his insights, looking around at his own British supremacist gangster universe, “write what you know about” is usually the advice given to budding writers.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 20 2025 21:03 utc | 94
https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news-selections/world-news/hackers-breach-ukraine-military-1-7-million-troops-lost-so-far-in-war
Is this true?
Would like b’s opinion.
Posted by: PJB | Aug 20 2025 21:04 utc | 95
Ukraine has lost over 1.7 million troops – leaked docs
Posted by: Realenti | Aug 20 2025 16:20 utc | 6
For comparison, the total active troops of European NATO countries is 1.2 million.
(Active troops only, not reserve. All NATO countries, minus US, Canada, and Turkey)
Posted by: Passerby | Aug 20 2025 21:04 utc | 96
malenkov @ 93
You put it much better than I could. He didn’t have integrity as a person, but he did as a writer, the person’s gone but the writing remains, something I’m sure he understood.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Aug 20 2025 21:06 utc | 97
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 20 2025 18:21 utc | 42
Remember how things went, in 2022 there was major battles, Marioupol, 1st and 2nd Battle for Lyman, Kupiansk also two times, Severodonetsk-Lysichank , Soledar & the beginning of Artiomovsk siege (Bakmut), the September rush to the Oskol etc … It was a pretty busy year !
The war was also not the same ; fewer drones, more arty …
Operational context matter ! Like a lot !
Posted by: Hiro Masamune | Aug 20 2025 18:44 utc | 48
So you agree 2022 is undercounted in the alleged hack/leak
——————-
I am sure that’s a big part of the publicly released vs numbers kept private but, based on Russian KIAs the ex-ukrainia side is probably closer to 1.1-1.2 million which, is sickening WWI numbers
Posted by: S Brennan | Aug 20 2025 19:13 utc | 60
Other indicators showed close to that near end of 2023
Even more “prudent” numbers would place that by end of 2024
——————————–
Newbie @42: “Problem is the numbers are too low earlier (2022-2023) , and 2025 is excessive…”
Russians are getting better at killing and the Ukrainians are getting better at dying. This dynamic has been mentioned before as something to expect from the Russians’ lower fatality rate. Soldiers who live get better a their trade, while the institutional knowledge and aggregate skills of a military force with a high attrition rate tend to decline. This is a self-reinforcing process with Russian forces becoming more professional while the Ukrainian military throws ever more poorly trained meat into the grinder. The Ukraine’s soaring casualty rates are exactly what one should expect from the side that is losing a war of attrition.
Posted by: William Gruff | Aug 20 2025 19:33 utc | 67
I mentioned the ad-hoc mix I tried could be compatible with that, but for that it was something I can’t easily explain in terms of methodology, it was trying to tie together a lot of incompatible information. (and not compatible with some cross reference indicators for 2022-2023)
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 20 2025 21:07 utc | 98
Slavs who wear bearskin hats and do funny dances while drinking way too much vodka cannot defeat the West. Not in the known universe can this happen. So it didn’t happen. Facts be damned…
@ oldhippie | Aug 20 2025 19:46 utc | 72
For a somewhat comprehensive tour of Slavonic stereotypes, see The Most Russian Man in the World, who “thinks Tolstoy and Dostoevsky are too superficial about the human condition…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43FsWX60XhQ
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Aug 20 2025 21:07 utc | 99
Ed Bernays @ 59
It’s much worse than that, Orwell worked for the BBC
Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 20 2025 19:28 utc | 65
And a turncoat.
https://spyscape.com/article/surveillance-state-how-british-soviet-spies-targeted-novelist-george-orwell
Posted by: Suresh | Aug 20 2025 21:07 utc | 100