News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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August 17, 2025
Ukraine Open Thread 2025-186
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1.385 AFU casualties and more details here
https://tass.com/defense/2003723
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 17 2025 12:28 utc | 1
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/176292
European and British supporters of the conflict in panic
(c) Kirill Dmitriev
1. It is obvious that an unspoken part of the agreements between Trump and Putin is Trump’s informal obligation to bend to the partially agreed terms the European satellites and Ukrainian puppets so that they figuratively “eat shit” and smack their lips to thank Trump for this, as the Europeans recently did, agreeing to almost all of Trump’s demands.
2. If Trump bends them in the coming days and forces them to agree to what was agreed with Putin, then a new meeting between Trump and Putin is possible in the coming weeks. And even some kind of general summit, where everything will be formally approved. If Trump fails to push through all this, it will simply show that he cannot force the figures dependent on him to fulfill their obligations, which means that agreements with him do not make much sense, since he cannot guarantee them. In this case, the Russian Federation will simply continue to achieve its goals militarily without getting hung up on agreements with the United States, since the situation at the front allows us to speak from a position of strength.
3. Naturally, Europe will seek to torpedo the separate agreements between Trump and Putin. Therefore, in addition to the cocaine Fuhrer, one of the overseers will be sent to Washington, who is now frantically chosen. Europe, obviously, does not want the war to end, and it will not end it of its own free will. Trump should force them to do this. Whether he will succeed – we will see next week.
PS. As a result, they decided to send the whole gang so that the cocaine Fuhrer would not jump off.
Posted by: guest | Aug 17 2025 12:33 utc | 2
Who will throw the wrench … be a hero face-to-face 😎
Agree w guest … total PANIC 😱
Quite conservative position by Macron … stubborn
France to ‘refuse any demilitarization of Ukrainian army,’ French defense minister says | March 11, 2025 |
Meloni too traveling to Washington … meeting in G7 format … missing Canada and Japan 😂
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20250817-europe-scrambles-for-response-after-trump-putin-talks-upend-ukraine-ceasefire-push
Posted by: Oui | Aug 17 2025 12:37 utc | 3
EU Monday
It seems as if there will be heaps of Eurocrat “leaders” in Washington on Monday to stop DJT from brutally an bushing the Z-man. Plenty of notable wastes of space to hold his hand.
But, I am concerned about the availability of sufficient white powder given the new law enforcement regime in that city. Maybe the National Guard has a few dealers in the ranks.
Posted by: Barrel Brown | Aug 17 2025 12:44 utc | 4
Good time to everyone, nothing changes (school bus) https://t.me/ZeRada1/26536
Posted by: Sany Dnepropetrovsk | Aug 17 2025 12:51 utc | 5
its blatantly obvious now for the rest of the world to see.
statesponsors of terrorism uk/eu do not want peace.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Aug 17 2025 13:04 utc | 6
Steve Witkoff now on State of the Union … positive view.
Wait for Monday talks and results … a lot of preparation done … possible trilateral meeting a week later.
Actually, the plan was only for Zelensky to receive his enema in Washington on Monday. It’s a mistake to think that if the entire group were to line up for the group enema with Trump, it would be more pleasant for everyone.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Aug 17 2025 13:18 utc | 8
Looks like the US is starting the preparatory propaganda work for being much more active in Ukraine against Russia while continuing to prepare for war against China. Posts and articles are back to using maximal inflammatory words and memes against both Russia AND China. Along with standard warnings that not confronting them would be taken as a sign of US weakness.
There is support for either Trump or Vance or Speaker Johnson to become the new War President that will boldly lead the US to defeat our permanent mortal enemies. I suspect that this will not end very well.
Posted by: Woke American | Aug 17 2025 13:20 utc | 9
Justpassinby@6…..to date there have been little or no consequences for the EUUK regarding their up front overt attack on Russia, they talk openly about it. Regardless of what The Don achieves, Congress and the next US government can reverse it. When one Government supplies another Government to attack another country, when they tell the world the amount of money they will supply, the quantity and quality of weapons provided that is not Terrorism that is War. War without consequences for the suppliers…..
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 17 2025 13:29 utc | 10
Before I go into details, I want to begin by saying I’m not Russian. I’m not speaking as an actual source who’s seen firsthand what’s going on in the Russian Federation, but I think I’ve done enough research to see where the true cost of war is.
From reports of economic stagnation to drone strikes on infrastructure, Russia has taken some hits during the war. Even Kursk and Belgorod have accounted for Ukrainian incursions, though Kursk was retaken before a year. However, the duration of the war and the failed collapse of Russia’s economy has shown that the Kremlin can withstand hits to the economy (to a degree).
Also, I’m well aware that the momentum in the battlefield is in Russia’s favor. Ukraine has lost a lot of manpower, which has led to Russian breakthroughs and Russian forces entering the Pokrovsk area (an important logistics hub). While Russian soldiers are also dying, it may be accurate to say that Ukraine is taking heavier hits.
However, I think the real cost Russia is paying in this war is its future. More specifically, its demographic future.
A lot of countries are experiencing demographic declines, mostly due to COVID and other economic factors such as inflation. Countries such as China, Japan, Britain, Romania, and Poland are all facing declining birth rates where the rate of death is higher than the rate of new births. Ukraine, for obvious reasons, is also facing this catastrophe. Between migration and losses in battle, Ukraine will have a big demographic wound once the war is over.
Russia also seems to be in the same situation, but not just through war casualties. I’ve studied a few sources and looked through news outlets for more information, and I recently discovered that Russia’s birth rate has fallen to its lowest level since 1999. And the rate of deaths is higher than the rate of new births.
It seems evident that not a lot of people in Russia want to have children, and for good reason. While the Kremlin seems able to contend with economic sanctions, this still spells some bad news within Russia’s civilian economy. It may not outright collapse, but people can see that now is definitely not the right time to start a family. Doing so with a war going on (and another Cold War with NATO, according to some people), always brings risk and uncertainty. I’ve heard that the Russian government is trying to use monetary rewards as incentive to make women have more children, but this doesn’t seem like a long-term option.
And with birth rates continuing to decline, the cost of war will be even higher for the future generation of Russia. Ukraine will also have to face this cost, but they’re already facing enough as it is. Russia’s ultimate price, along with replacing military equipment, seems to be that there won’t be a future generation of Russians.
Of course, countries’ birth rates have risen and fallen over the course of history. Only now, it seems that the question is what it will take to get birth rates up again. It won’t be an easy process, I’m sure, but I imagine the end of the war will give some people confidence in starting a family. We’ll just have to wait and see how heavy this cost will be on Russia.
Again, I’m not Russian or a Russian expert. If anyone wants to challenge my POV, I’m all ears.
Posted by: Court of Talons | Aug 17 2025 13:30 utc | 11
Oh good… farce coming to an end…Soon US Trump can “wash his hands” of Ukraine, while quietly supporting war in every way, and US lapdogs have all the responsibility of its failure.
Meanwhile, Putin and Trump “make deals” and scoop up money…
“Zelensky refuses Trump’s push for peace deal”
“The Ukrainian leader has again claimed that a ceasefire is needed to negotiate an end to the conflict with Russia”
“Ukraine’s Vladimir Zelensky has rejected US President Donald Trump’s call for a peace deal between Moscow and Kiev, reiterating that a truce has to be implemented before discussing details of a possible settlement.”
“Zelensky made the statement on Sunday during a joint press-conference with European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, who will accompany him to Washington for talks with Trump on Monday.”
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 13:37 utc | 12
TASS. A joint press conference before Trump Monday meeting:
“BRUSSELS, August 17. /TASS/. European Commission Head Ursula von der Leyen and Ukraine’s Vladimir Zelensky announced a joint press conference in Brussels on Sunday as a response to the Russia-US summit in Alaska.”
“As the European Commission’s press office reported, Zelensky has flown into Brussels and at 2:30 p.m. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen will give a joint press conference with Zelensky.”
“Von der Leyen wrote on the X social media platform that Zelensky would fly to Brussels to participate together with her in a teleconference of the **coalition of the willing.”
“This visit was not in the European Commission’s plans until Sunday morning.”
Alas, handover completed…
Putin & Trump excellent showmanship for the circus goers…
Onto Iran war…
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 13:46 utc | 13
Re: Woke #9
Looks like the US is starting the preparatory propaganda work for being much more active in Ukraine against Russia
Russophobia is decades old, just becoming more sophisticated. Have any sources for your statement?
Hardliners, like Lindsey Graham, commend peace effort by their MAGA leader …
Well done Mr. President
His MAGA crowd do not want any US effort in Ukraine on behalf of Europeans. Period.
German FEAR: majority expect an AfD chancellor by 2028 😊
Poor USA, poor Trump, look how Russia & USA are being treated by those European dogs…what’s wrong with them?
USA just wants “the killing to stop”…
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 13:54 utc | 15
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Aug 17 2025 13:18 utc | 8
“Actually, the plan was only for Zelensky to receive his enema in Washington on Monday. It’s a mistake to think that if the entire group were to line up for the group enema with Trump, it would be more pleasant for everyone.”
Yes, as far as I can tell, only Zelensky was invited, so presumably the ‘delegation’ can kick their heels in whatever sleazy section of Washington(?) that best takes their fancy and spending power (which means that Starmer for one will be investigating only the cheapest, least attractive Ukranian rent boys).
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Aug 17 2025 13:56 utc | 16
The UK legacy media and our politicians are acting like a wounded animal, lashing out in all directions, apoplectic with rage & disbelief over the Trump-Putin summit, literally frothing at the mouth as they spit out ‘Munich’ and ‘appeasement’ on repeat.
It seems the only thing preventing them from committing hari-kari is Monday’s Zelensky-Euroscum tag team, which of course includes the UK Prime Minister (in the light of the Ukrainian rent boy scandal, many have commented on the strange ‘close embrace’ between the Z man and Starmer earlier in the week outside No.10 Downing Street).
Arch warpig & former UK defence minister Ben Wallace has just given us a glimpse of the main Euro-Kiev tag team talking point in a BBC interview, that agreeing to territorial concessions would save lives “in the short term” but in the long term “would probably put us at greater risk”.
Whether such an approach will resonate with Trump tomorrow remains to be seen. One thing for sure, it’s going to be unmissible viewing.
One can even conceive an “Et tu, Brute?” moment 🙂
Posted by: FakeBelieve | Aug 17 2025 13:59 utc | 17
RE: “Again, I’m not Russian or a Russian expert. If anyone wants to challenge my POV, I’m all ears.”
Posted by: Court of Talons | Aug 17 2025 13:30 utc | 11
No challenge to your POV, just pointing out Russia will do as other nations, encourage immigration & make them citizens.
Do not forget that the incorporation of Crimea and just the 4 territories (if they don’t take more) resulted in millions more citizens practically overnight, who also will have children.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 14:03 utc | 18
RE: Posted by: FakeBelieve | Aug 17 2025 13:59 utc | 17
All as it was supposed to be.
Putin made a deal to give Trump a way out of the obvious failure this campaign is before the final military blow on the battlefield.
However, the war goes on another 18-20 months.
Money to be made.
Nevertheless, UK will do something stupid, and this goes Nuclear in the end anyways.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 14:10 utc | 19
Posted by: Court of Talons | Aug 17 2025 13:30 utc | 11
“It seems evident that not a lot of people in Russia want to have children, and for good reason.”
This is a problem that Russia has in common with almost all countries with an advanced technocratic society. South Korea is in an especially bad situation, but it is widespread apart from parts of Africa. Russian society, especially in larger towns, has much more modern infrastructure, and is cleaner and more law abiding in comparison to most western equivalents. (Of course, there is crime, too, but there is crime everywhere). So I’m not sure what your ‘good reasons’ are if distinct from that, and if you don’t have any proof to the contrary, your statement is superfluous.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Aug 17 2025 14:10 utc | 20
It is clear Trump plays everyone. Since his reality TV gigs, then his first Pres run. He never even paid for ads, they all talked about his craziness 24/7. Nothings changed and no one really knows whats next. Regardless of ones opinion of him, his success is remarkable, a clear sign of genius, call it crazy if one must.
So what if meeting in Alaska with Putin away from Turkey and the UAE etc was to have a very surreptitious plan detailed between likeminded super powers without the spying eyes of the mossad.
Stopping the outragous behaviour would require these two super powers to work together. Both Putin and Trump despise wanton death and destruction.
Just maybe. One could wish. To see a dozen hazelsticks spank a genocidal state would be marvelous indeed.
Posted by: Merv Ritchie | Aug 17 2025 14:11 utc | 21
Posted by: Court of Talons | Aug 17 2025 13:30 utc | 11
Russia’s ultimate price, along with replacing military equipment, seems to be that there won’t be a future generation of Russians.
I’ve pointed out already in many comments here that fertility rate is the single issue in which Putin’s rule could have been more successful, so you’re not making any original argument here.
Average fertility rate has increased 8% since Putin raised to power and up to 2022 with respect to the 90s (from 1.393 babies per female lifetime to 1.504 babies per female lifetime).
Fertility rate decreased from 2021 (no war) to 2022 (1st year of war) by a mere 3.5% (from 1.504 to 1.451).
Macrotrends claim to have updated information and it shows a very sharp increase in 2024 and half of 2025, see here.
What did affect Russian fertility rates was the start of economic sanctions in 2014 (it also affected GDP) though that was nothing like the 90s.
You can download official data up to 2022 here.
Before I go into details, I want to begin by saying I’m not Russian. I’m not speaking as an actual source who’s seen firsthand what’s going on in the Russian Federation, but I think I’ve done enough research to see where the true cost of war is.
Lol!I hope my 10 seconds of research may assuage your concerns.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 17 2025 14:15 utc | 22
@14 Oui
I wasn’t blaming MAGA. If you noticed, I actually VICIOUSLY ACCUSED the President and Vice President of potentially standing firm AGAINST a march to war to the point of risking their lives.
I was VICIOUSLY AND MALICIOUSLY accusing MAGA of losing the battle to those wanting war.
I DO have TDS. Full fledged. Still, I am thrilled with what Trump did in Alaska, and hope that at least on this one issue that MAGA wins. The odds are against you.
Oh yeah, I also have BDS and ODS (Obama DS).
Most of my sources are pro Biden democratic for this, which I consider “left” in the same way that MAGA views RINOs as “right”. pro Biden democrats have expressed as much hatred for the left as Trump has, though for different reasons.
Posted by: Woke American | Aug 17 2025 14:23 utc | 23
The problem for all the talk of potential diplomatic solutions is two-fold. First, the Euros don’t seem to be adapting to the changing whims of their imperial overlord fast enough. Perhaps they hope to wait out Trump with an assumption that a democratic POTUS will return to Biden’s policies. Or maybe they understand that now they’ve gone too far and the only way to return economic and foreign policy power to the EU is to destroy Russia. Though they still misunderstand their imperial overlord since they wouldn’t have reaped the primary benefits of Biden’s plans had worked.
In Kiev all of this is a non-starter. Zelensky cannot end the war without destroying himself and his circle. Moreover, the current Ukrainian state is only held together socially and economically by the war. So while a plan to replace Zelensky can be drawn up and executed, the reality of how that execution plays out is unpredictable. Replace him with a nationalist and you’re in the same spot. Replace him with someone willing to make a deal and you’re betting on everyone just going along with it.
But in any coup / replacement plan there’s a non-negotiable period of instability. In that time you have powerful actors competing for power. It’s one thing with a military in its barracks, another with it heavily comprised of unwilling conscripts on an active front line. What if they surrender en masse? What if they turn their guns around to exert their will? What if they just walk away? Does the replacement plan have a viable scenario for a significant rupture of the front with Russian mechanized advances?
An assumption of perfect control over Ukrainian actors is a recipe for disaster. And clearly no western capitol has complete control over Ukrainian actors even now, much less in the scenario of a messy power structure change.
And all of this has to be considered in the context of Russia’s significant and growing power in the military situation. That power and trajectory means that Moscow doesn’t really need any deal at all. An attempt to replace Zelensky may well end up working in Russia’s favor. The short answer here is that a diplomatic settlement is nearly impossible because the EU won’t and Zelensky can’t. That leaves everyone west of the Dnieper in a lose-lose position.
Posted by: Lex | Aug 17 2025 14:28 utc | 24
RE:
“Both Putin and Trump *despise* wanton death and destruction.”
Posted by: Merv Ritchie | Aug 17 2025 14:11 utc | 21
Hum… not sure on what rational basis you reached that conclusion.
Both USA & Russia are #1 & #2 in global arms sales, death-planes, missiles, AD systems and varying death & destruction hardware & software. These 2 nations practically single-handedly supply the world with death and destruction hardware & technology.
Russia could care a less about “wanton” death & destruction as long as it’s not their citizens.
USA couldn’t care a less about even their own citizens.
That’s the only difference in their “caring”.
In addition, Russia is not “war-mongering”… but happy to supply weapons, they don’t seek “wanton” death, but don’t much care about others dying… like when Yemen was being pulverized & starved to death for 8 years, or as Gaza now.
They’ve accepted the global USA carnage and even call them “partners” to this very minute.
And they are partners. Until one of them isn’t…
Eventually, Russia will get sick and tired of this proxy whereby Russian are dying in this “partnership”.
That time is coming.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 14:36 utc | 25
Well, Trump has already told the eurocucks he’d sell them all the guns they want to donate to the hohols. So if the eurocucks don’t want a peace agreement, they can pay for continued war. And Z can keep providing the cannon fodder. But that’s gotta end, unless these cretins can pressure Trump to intervene. They just might. The Blob can liquidate Trump over this.
Posted by: seer | Aug 17 2025 14:38 utc | 26
Cocainsky and his Euro-enablers off to Washington on Monday …
“Send in the clowns”
… to meet with POTUS Trump…
“Don’t bother, they’re here.”
HTFG. What a shit show. Send popcorn now.
Posted by: NH | Aug 17 2025 14:46 utc | 27
Why is Witkoff lying and saying Putin agreed to allow article 5 like protection for the rump ?
Putin could not and will never agree to such a concession.
Posted by: Night Tripper | Aug 17 2025 14:49 utc | 28
seems to me like the UN needs to be involved in settling this war.. it should have arranged the Alaska meeting. Problem is the security council….who on the security council would vote against ending this war?
Five permanent members: China, France, Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, and the United States, and ten non-permanent members elected for two-year terms by the General Assembly (with end of term year):
Algeria (2025)
Denmark (2026)
Greece (2026)
Guyana (2025)
Pakistan (2026)
Panama (2026)
Republic of Korea (2025)
Sierra Leone (2025)
Slovenia (2025)
Somalia (2026)
The UN needs to eliminate the security council and to rewrite its charter to make protection of human rights the underlying rationale for its existence.
Posted by: snake | Aug 17 2025 14:51 utc | 29
Re: Alaska Summit.
I thought Putin’s suggestion of negotiating a Russia-Ukraine Peace Treaty was far more sensible and logical than day-dreaming about negotiating a Ceasefire during a ☆”Full Scale Invasion”☆.
Trump seemed to think so too.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 17 2025 14:52 utc | 30
(which means that Starmer for one will be investigating only the cheapest, least attractive Ukranian rent boys).
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Aug 17 2025 13:56 utc | 16
______
This must certainly merit some award for Most Redundancies Packed into an Adjectival Phrase!
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 17 2025 14:53 utc | 31
Posted by: seer | Aug 17 2025 14:38 utc | 26
“the eurocucks . . . can pay for continued war”.
That’s the problem – they can’t. Most European economies are just keeping their heads above water. They can only pay for continued war by cutting health, welfare and infrastructure spending. (The ‘European powerhouse’, Germany, has lost a huge chunk of it’s previous manufacturing capacity, while incurring much higher energy bills). There will be massive protests all over the sub-continent after an intensive spell of austerity.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Aug 17 2025 14:59 utc | 32
Posted by: snake | Aug 17 2025 14:51 utc | 29
“The UN needs to eliminate the security council and to rewrite its charter to make protection of human rights the underlying rationale for its existence.”
– Add in the protection of the planetary ecology too, although I suppose that could fall under ‘human rights’!.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Aug 17 2025 15:02 utc | 33
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 17 2025 14:53 utc | 31
I accept the award, on behalf of Sir Keith, who inspired it. 🤯
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Aug 17 2025 15:04 utc | 34
@ Night Tripper | Aug 17 2025 14:49 utc | 28
Why is Witkoff lying and saying Putin agreed to allow article 5 like protection
This is linguistic acrobatics. Russia’s fundamental stance has immovably been to provide security guarantees to _neutral_ 404 alongside EU and US. As part of the new comprehensive European security framework.
US is framing long known Russian stance in the dumbed down NATO vocabulary as new “concessions” for momentary narrative benefit.
Posted by: boneless | Aug 17 2025 15:13 utc | 35
Court of Talons | Aug 17 2025 13:30 utc | 11–
Russia’s demographic issue is the result of several factors with one major issue being mentioned above by Jams O’Donnell @20 and with good follow-up provided by Johan Kaspar @22. I’ve followed the issue since 2000 after the massive deaths caused by the Neoliberal Rape of Russia that generated a death rate similar to that of the Great Patriotic War. In fact, if Russia had enjoyed peace similar to that of the United States from 1914-2022, their populations would be similar, although it must be said that the Outlaw US Empire’s population’s been greatly augmented by immigration during the last 75 years. The Russian government has and continues to offer outstanding incentives to get couples to generate large families–four or more children–and annually awards a mother chosen for her willingness to procreate will beyond the norm. Many other aspects related to social development are also in play. The issue is engaged in deep discussion by Team Putin on a quarterly basis during government meetings, with the lead minister being Deputy Prime Minister Tatiana Golikova. In his discussion with the governor of Chukotka on his return from the Summit, one of the issues Putin was informed about was the region’s demographic growth. The Year of the Family National Project continues, and I don’t see it ending when Putin retires in 2030. Every discussion about economic performance also deals with the issue of personnel shortage because of the demographic issue–current Russian unemployment is 2%, and in some regions is almost 0. Thus, the stress on the development of robotics and other productivity enhancing technologies.
The SMO strategy of attrition was driven by the demographic issue as Russia simply doesn’t have the luxury of throwing away 100s of thousands of lives like Stalin did against Hitler, while we see the NATO-led Ukrainians doing exactly that. The issue on the battlefield has become Ukraine’s lack of Nazis willing to go to the front and die as many tens of thousands of Russian speaking Ukrainians have chosen to desert or leave the country since the war began by Obama targeted them specifically. The place where the demographic issue now matters the most in on and behind the FEBA/LOC where NATO lacks sufficient Ukrainian forces to stop Russia’s offensive. And it’s clear that Starmer and Macron understand that any troop contributions they might make will be utterly useless. Merz also seems to finally realize that fact.
RE: @ Night Tripper | Aug 17 2025 14:49 utc | 28
“Why is Witkoff lying and saying Putin agreed to allow article 5 like protection”
Simple. He’s a proven known liar. Think Israel/Iran.
Why expect a speck of truth from him? He’s a Trump doppelgänger…
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 15:23 utc | 37
snake | Aug 17 2025 14:51 utc | 29–
The UN Charter actually puts the defense of human rights front and center and then went further with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which the Outlaw US Empire NEVER ratified despite it being Eleanor Rosevelt’s major post-war cause.
Posted by: Court of Talons | Aug 17 2025 13:30 utc | 11
#######
Russia is in an existential fight.
They have tried repeatedly to not fight.
If they allow NATO to win there will be no Russia.
Your point about demography is, by all accounts, accurate but the situation doesn’t exist independent of the circumstances.
We’re headed into an era where raw manpower will be less important. Where one pilot can do the damage of 500 infantrymen. The world is automating and scaling the effects of human action.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 17 2025 15:31 utc | 39
Russia is in an existential fight.
They have tried repeatedly to not fight.
If they allow NATO to win there will be no Russia.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 17 2025 15:31 utc | 39
He who tries by any means possible to avoid war in a situation where the opponent thirsts for it, will fight it anyways. Only on far worse terms. – Igor Strelkov
People who will not fight eventually will be eaten by those who will fight. – Dr. William Luther Pierce
Posted by: MiniMO | Aug 17 2025 15:37 utc | 40
Posted by: boneless | Aug 17 2025 15:13 utc | 35
Putin has never ‘agreed’ to allow the Waste to provide any guarantees to Ukraine at all.
Where has that been stated by Russia?
Posted by: Night Tripper | Aug 17 2025 15:41 utc | 41
I see Putin has phoned his partners to inform them of the Summit’s results. Meanwhile, the Eurocrats are hijacking Zelensky’s “invite” to meet with Trump and will storm the White House.
Trump’s “demand” that a meeting be held with Zelensky next week is far too soon and appears to be driven by the Congressional recess and his continuing desire for a ceasefire ASAP. Trump is clearly ignorant as usual of the great amount of detail required to arrive at the sort of security structure that’s going to be acceptable for Russia, while Zelensky continues to want war.
Re fertility rates- generally birth rates will fall during any significant conflict. That’s not the telling point. What -does- matter is how the fertility rate looks within 1-5 years AFTER the fighting has ended. And you may be surprised, by both sides.
Remember, in Vietnam the collective conflict (all the bad things done by U.S, North, South, etc) equated to a few million lives ended, industrial and agricultural base heavily degraded, god knows how many tonnes of ordinance and defoliant dropped on large swathes of the country. But yet they came roaring back in a big way.
Russia and Ukraine- could go either way. But again, absolutely no way of knowing with any confidence until the fighting is over. Anyone who says “Country X is done forever!” doesn’t know what they’re talking about. If Russia was able to bounce back from the dark days of the post-soviet nightmare collapse of the 90’s, so too could Ukraine re-populate after the war. Or not- it depends on a lot of factors!
Posted by: Clown Shoes | Aug 17 2025 15:44 utc | 43
@32 Jams O’Donnell
How I would like to believe there will be huge protests by the European population against their impoverishment in order to maintain the Ukraine graft and war.
However I am amazed that my German neighbors, despite tons of evidence of corruption and the unstoppable impact of facts on the battlefield, still believe what they are told in the MSM. It will really take a lot of Trumpian shafting to get them to reevaluate ties with the Empire.
Posted by: Judge Barbier | Aug 17 2025 15:44 utc | 44
Other security concerns need to be negotiated … limiting permissible weapons, missiles, etc. … no threats to Russia. No NATO forces … perhaps Trump accepts limiting U.S. and NATO Rapid Deployment Corps on the Eastern front.
An Ukrainska Pravda source familiar with the talks has confirmed that the discussion took place and clarified that the wording used during the phone call was “non-NATO Article 5 security guarantees”.
The idea was put forward by the US as one of the security guarantees for Ukraine that were supposedly agreed with Putin in Alaska.
Even the NATO article 5 is not ironclad … leaves wiggle room for individual countries. 😊
Posted by: MiniMO | Aug 17 2025 15:37 utc | 40
######
And yet, here we are. Russia is the preeminent military in the world and its enemies are begging for a ceasefire.
Those quotes you offered are good.
But they don’t apply to a Lion who is slow to anger but devastating once he is activated.
Much of those sentiments apply to weak countries like India or Egypt. Russia remains in a class of its own.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 17 2025 15:45 utc | 46
Posted by: Court of Talons | Aug 17 2025 13:30 utc | 11
I have made this argument before, but will repeat it, as it seems a fundamentall issue for all of mankind. Demographic decline is not just inevitable everywhere, it is also positive and should be promoted globally. Quality of life will increase once the global population shrinks. Once the initial economic shock is absorbed, almost every aspect of life will benefit from a decreasing population density.
Technology has advanced enough to maintain production levels, replacing human labour with some form of automatisation. This process has of course started a long time ago, but it’s liberating effect will come into full frutition, once our leaders have accepted population decline.
In hindsight the global turning point in population density will be considered the happiest moment in human history.
Posted by: Hamburger | Aug 17 2025 15:50 utc | 47
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 17 2025 15:45 utc | 46
Well Shadowbanned kept saying Putin and the leadership were traitors. Many people thought he was on Ukraine/West’s side but he was actually frustrated and angry with Russia making the wrong decisions and sabotaging itself again and again.
Posted by: MiniMO | Aug 17 2025 15:53 utc | 48
Posted by: Judge Barbier | Aug 17 2025 15:44 utc | 44
Yes, I sort of agree with you, but I’m trying to be ‘glass half full’
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Aug 17 2025 15:54 utc | 49
A question. Suppose you are an Ukrainian working for a recruitment center (TRC). You’re on video, throwing struggling men in minibuses. What would you do when Ukraine loses the war?
Posted by: Passerby | Aug 17 2025 16:00 utc | 50
@48 JOD
Ok I’m good with that. Let’s hope you’re right.
Posted by: Judge Barbier | Aug 17 2025 16:02 utc | 51
Posted by: MiniMO | Aug 17 2025 15:53 utc | 47
#######
To make a “mistake”, one must first be the one acting.
Observers, by definition, cannot make a mistake because they are not involved.
Shadowbanned and most doomers are classic gammas. They aren’t involved directly but have endless critique from the peanut gallery.
No skin in the game.
Voyeurs who think that watching is “doing”.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 17 2025 16:05 utc | 52
@ Night Tripper | Aug 17 2025 15:41 utc | 41
You make up the “agreement” part yourself. This was always the end condition for neutrality. You might want to look up the conflict’s origins breakdown more thoroughly.
Posted by: boneless | Aug 17 2025 16:07 utc | 53
still believe what they are told in the MSM.
Posted by: Judge Barbier | Aug 17 2025 15:44 utc | 44
I see today’s West Europeans a bit like elder Russians in 1991, sitting there, waiting for the world to make sense again.
Posted by: Passerby | Aug 17 2025 16:09 utc | 54
RE: “If they allow NATO to win there will be no Russia.”
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 17 2025 15:31 utc | 39
Quit being silly. There is no NATO.
Rag-tag country groupings that failed in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria & Libya.
Latest claim to fame: How they could take Kalingrad.
Their land forces are crap, air forces with a country with a decent A/D system is crap, their sea forces as demonstrated by Yemen are crap.
There is no NATO. Just a wanna-be-military collective money laundering operation whose exposure is well noted.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 16:23 utc | 55
The German daily newspaper “Bild”:
Trump has refused to attend a general meeting with European heads of state and government and will meet alone with Zelensky.
✨Maximum humiliation of the lackeys from Europe and Zelensky, who has assembled an entire support team of EU leaders.
Posted by: Genesis | Aug 17 2025 16:33 utc | 56
@ Court of Tallons 11
You mentioned a real issue, yes, but it was also an issue before war. And do not forget: during the last 10 years about 5 millions Ukrainians fled to Russia.
Posted by: Aarsupilani | Aug 17 2025 16:34 utc | 57
There is no NATO. Just a wanna-be-military collective money laundering operation whose exposure is well noted.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 16:23 utc | 54
Absolutely. It’s very frustrating to constantly read on MoA about “Nato” as if it was some kind of military entity or actual army.
NATO is a cooperation treaty. A pile of paperwork and contracts. A defense racket for the MIC.
But Nato is no actual fighting force nor army.
Imagine dutch artillery crew speaking by radio in broken english to norwegian tankmen trying to cross a field bridge fitted by italians engineers ? All with different grades, uniforms and using different ammo calibers ? That’s Nato joint drills for you. Imagine the mess, the confusion and the effectiveness against the battle hardened RF ?
Nato is profit oriented alliance based on the fear of the boogeyman to get governement defense contracts during peace times. Not an actual fighting force in a time of war.
Posted by: Pierrot | Aug 17 2025 16:44 utc | 58
Posted by: Passerby | Aug 17 2025 16:00 utc | 49
########
I don’t know if you have seen this but there are Ukrainian men who get their Nazi tattoos worked into a different larger tattoo.
Like rats, they will run and hide, change their name, become your neighbor.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 17 2025 16:44 utc | 59
It is a pity that Trump has bulldozed all those homeless tents in DC. He could have used them to house the European delegations. Two cots to each cubicle. The mind boggles who would chum up with who.
**
(as per the Rus journalists in Alaska, – if I really need to explain it)
***
If the EUnuchs are NOT allowed to meet Trump at the same time as Zelebaby, they are going to look pretty stupid.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 16:23 utc | 54
————————
Underestimating Russia military has been and still is the West attitude.
Overestimating it’s own forces is not what Russia wants.
Posted by: scc | Aug 17 2025 16:57 utc | 61
The Neo-Nazi dictator Zelensky – and some of his EU Neo-Nazi loving bigwigs will all meet Trump together.
“Ukraine’s Vladimir Zelensky and several Western European leaders are due in Washington on Monday for talks with US President Donald Trump.
The visit comes after Trump met Russian President Vladimir Putin in Alaska on Friday, in their first face-to-face talks since the escalation of the Ukraine conflict in 2022. Both leaders voiced cautious optimism that the discussions could help move towards a resolution of the hostilities between Moscow and Kiev.
Zelensky announced in a post on X on Saturday that he would be traveling to the US capital on Monday, with Trump confirming the meeting on his Truth Social platform later in the day.
On Sunday, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said in a social media post that she and several Western European leaders would be joining Zelensky at his request to meet with Trump.
Meanwhile, several US officials have claimed that considerable progress has been made in reaching a compromise peace deal between Russia and Ukraine.”
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 17 2025 16:58 utc | 62
The Neo-Nazi loving EU bigwigs to play both sides, and they want Ukraine in the bullyboy warmongering club that is Nato.
“Western European leaders have issued a statement backing US President Donald Trump’s diplomatic push to end the Ukraine conflict – while also reaffirming their intention to further arm Kiev and seek to bring it into NATO, the very issues Russia has cited as among the root causes of the conflict.
The declaration follows the summit between US President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin in Alaska on Friday, where the two discussed steps toward ending the Ukraine conflict. Although no deal was announced, both sides characterized the talks as highly productive. Trump said he would speak with Ukraine’s Vladimir Zelensky in Washington on Monday.
The leaders of France, Germany, Italy, the UK, Poland, Finland, as well as the presidents of the EU Council and European Commission, praised the peace efforts in a statement published on Saturday, but vowed to continue providing military aid to Kiev.
“Our support to Ukraine will continue. We are determined to do more to keep Ukraine strong in order to achieve an end to the fighting,” they said.”
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 17 2025 17:01 utc | 63
Posted by: MiniMO | Aug 17 2025 15:53 utc | 47
———————————
Shadowbanned recipe for right decisions was Russia to start a nuclear war.
I prefer Russia to make bad decisions.
Posted by: scc | Aug 17 2025 17:05 utc | 64
Posted by: Stonebird | Aug 17 2025 16:54 utc | 59
“If the EUnuchs are NOT allowed to meet Trump at the same time as Zelebaby, they are going to look pretty stupid.”
They’ve had plenty of prior experience, so it shouldn’t be too traumatic for the wee souls.
To be honest, I feel quite ashamed to be (supposedly) represented by a clueless, morality free, self-serving, non-funny, ignorant, rent-boy chasing, avaricious clown like Starmer
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Aug 17 2025 17:12 utc | 65
Putin played the Alaska summmit perfectly and it seems he has carefully rekindled a rapport with DjT. Trump’s style of deal-making looks more and more like a clumsy but successful policy of wrong-footing his detractors and opponents. Trump hates the MSM like Putin but he does not have the remarkable dominance of statecraft, history and diplomatic legalisms. I heard a few things today which I think could make a contribution. Gilbert Doctorow spoke from Brussels with Glenn Diesen. during the conversation Gilbert underscored the dismal intelligence of European politicians. In my experience it is beyond dismal. I was personally in a tiny audience (private)alongside former Euro-central banker Jean-Claude Trichet listening to Macron. point person in Brussels named Nathalie Loiseau. She was a perfect idiot. This person had NO knowledge whatsoever of the structure of the Minsk accords, the fight for autonomny of the Donbass republics and so on BUT she had been ferried several time to the fron lines by the Zelensky regime. Whqt I am trying to say is Europe is governed by idiots. We the people see it but there is no way to change it with a state controlled press (oligarch controlled). There is only one way forward: the US should establish a partallel UNSC with the current big three China and the Russians. Will it happen? no.
Posted by: Stierlitz | Aug 17 2025 17:41 utc | 66
RE: Posted by: MiniMO | Aug 17 2025 15:53 utc | 47
———————————
Shadowbanned recipe for right decisions was Russia to start a nuclear war.
I prefer Russia to make bad decisions.
Posted by: scc | Aug 17 2025 17:05 utc | 63
Russia has no need “to start” a nuclear war.
They’ve plenty of non-nuclear state-of-the-art weapons to defeat the worthless NATO w/o resorting to nuclear.
So I doubt that was the reasoning.
There’s a lot of room between good and bad decisions, and frankly, it’s the West, all of their own accord, that will test the “tactical nuclear use”—can-I-get-away-with-it? theory as they have no other weapons win.
Which like it or not, is close at hand.
No matter what Russia does, aside from capitulation.
The reality of “no ceasefire” hasn’t wholly sunk in.
Even Russia knows when it does, dangerous days ahead.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 17:45 utc | 67
Ukraine and World Affairs: Weekly Update: May be Useful to Some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-and-world-affairs-weekly-d42
Posted by: The Busker | Aug 17 2025 17:49 utc | 68