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August 10, 2025
Ukraine Open Thread 2025-180
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The settlement of the conflict in Ukraine will take into account the current front line – Vance
The United States is starting from the existing front line in settling the conflict in Ukraine, trying to find a solution that would take into account the demands of both sides, US Vice President J.D. Vance said.
Vance gave an interview to Fox News, in which he spoke about the US attempt to achieve peace in Ukraine. According to him, the US wants to start from the current line of combat contact, but to do so that everyone is happy. The American politician did not specify how this would look, but he did specify that Trump is not confident in the success of the negotiations, but believes that they need to be held.
If we take the current line of contact between Russia and Ukraine, we will try to achieve a settlement in which both Russians and Ukrainians could live relatively peacefully.
– Vance said.
He also confirmed that the US would no longer finance Ukraine by sending military aid to Kyiv. If Europe has a desire to transfer American weapon, then let them spend their money buying it from the US. Now all supplies are only for European money.
Vance also mentioned Zelensky, stating that the White House does not consider a possible meeting between Putin and the “illegitimate” before the talks with Trump productive. Therefore, there is no talk of a meeting with him now. After the talks in Alaska, it is quite possible, but judging by Putin’s statement, this will not happen. But Trump will meet with him to summarize the results of the talks.
https://en.topwar.ru/269472-uregulirovanie-konflikta-na-ukraine-budet-s-uchetom-nyneshnej-linii-fronta-vjens.html
As a poster commenting on that site points out:
The front line is a fickle thing.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 10 2025 18:41 utc | 101
Posted by: Clown Shoes | Aug 10 2025 13:54 utc | 6
Thanks for that look at the initial work around Kharkov. Nothing intrinsically wrong with the assumption it was a Russian screw-up. I’m not a military historian or analyst but reading those who are on past conflicts, war often looks like a sequence of monumental screw-ups both sides! And we know that the famous “parquet generals” hadn’t been weeded out by then so therefore no reason why the Russians didn’t miscalculate that time.
But looking at their overall approach in those early days it’s maybe not that likely. It’s more consistent with their probing, suck it and see, let’s see how the cat jumps approach that was a marked feature of their approach then and I believe still is. They don’t do “the plan” as we in the West do. They do a number of plans and go with the one that looks most promising. There was a discussion of that on Colonel Lang’s old site. A Russian wrote in and confirmed that approach. I believe it was the approach adopted in this case.
I’ve regarded Strelkov as a loser and no military tactician since the debacle at Slaviansk. More to the point, so did some of the Federalists of the time. I saw a big interview, or debate in which Strelkov took part, a couple of years ago. Very mystical and vague and kept on saying, when challenged on specific points, that there were things he couldn’t talk about. Have discounted him ever since. I’d like to know more about the current of opinion he represents but I ask enough questions here without branching out into that one.
Provisional view. Like Dugin he’s been bigged up by the Western press for propaganda purposes but far from being a big wheel I’m not sure Strelkov’s a wheel at all. Just one of the vast crowd of Russian military bloggers and commentators who cry “Woe is me! All is lost!” every time someone stubs a toe.
Not forgetting that the Donbass, in the early days of the war after 2014, was a real muddle of Monarchists, old style Soviet communists, soldiers of fortune, odds and ends from all over the place and grifters. A muddle that I’ve seen no one from our side, even Paul Robinson, attempting to disentangle. What counted, I think, was that that muddle was set in the context of a great mass of fighters grimly determined to survive the Ultra onslaught. But I’m prejudiced maybe on that. The men who were to become the LDNR fighters were and still are unbelievably resolute. They were the core force in the early days of the SMO and haven’t yet had sufficient acknowledgement. Girkin/Strelkov is not of their number.
As for the course of events now, was that not set in stone in ’22?
The Russians will achieve the objectives set out in Putin’s speech on the eve of the SMO and confirmed often since. Notably in the June 14th ’24 speech to the Foreign office officials. A hundred thousand plus dead since February ’22 ensures that. The Russians will no doubt attempt to find some formula that will save Trump’s face but there’s no longer much room for that.
The Europeans politicians are now well placed for what they wish to achieve. They know perfectly well that defeat’s coming but have Trump handy to blame that defeat on. They will then stoke up the war fever – but for a war they have neither the means for nor the intention of fighting – and take us in Europe into Cold War II.
That’ll suit the Americans, who also know perfectly well that defeat in Ukraine is looming, have done since mid ’22, but who have plenty of other sore spots on the Russian perimeter to work on. Plus the shadow boxing with China. I can’t believe the Americans have the means for or the intention of fighting a serious war either, but as in Europe Washington runs on keeping the lobbyists and interest groups happy and that’s not going to alter.
It’s the Ukrainians one is sorry for. Could have been the most prosperous country in Europe, certainly in the post-Soviet world. Then we came along and used it as an attack dog. Wrecked the place. As I quote from “b” so often, a “crime”. Just one in a sequence of destruction from before Iraq, by no means the worst, but one would have to have a heart of stone not to feel for them.
Posted by: English Outsider | Aug 10 2025 18:44 utc | 102
Does collapse require violent rebellion?
Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 10 2025 16:22 utc | 60
You conflated two separate points and then contradicted yourself.
You said Ukraine has an endless supply of meat for the grinder, which in and of itself is demonstrably wrong. However, then you say there’s not ENOUGH men to rebel against Kiev because of the war. Which is it?
There’s definitely a significant number of young men partying around Kiev, Odessa, Lviv, etc. that have been shielded from the war. They’re not enough to extend the war, however, but they are enough to raise hell where they live.
—
Collapse is a separate matter, and (again) it’s already happening. The RF is making outsized gains as the AFU line is crumbling.
From GEROMAN:
“”Enemy sources report a serious advance of our troops at the Nikanorovka – Mayak line north of Pokrovsk.
It is quite curious that the territory of the gray zone, which on enemy resources often implies the presence of RF Armed Forces units in this area, has rapidly pushed north.
If the enemy reports are correct, our fighters managed to advance 8 kilometers towards the settlements of Zolotoy Kolodets and Kucherov Yar. By the standards of the special military operation, such an advance is quite significant and signals that the enemy still cannot stabilize the situation on this section of the front.”
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Aug 10 2025 18:45 utc | 103
Posted by: Norwegian | Aug 10 2025 18:26 utc | 99
Thank you.
Essentially, Norwegian political class found other non-consultative arrangements to make Norway integral to the EU. But still, Norway is not a member of the EU, it is not under the spell of Brussels. I think you can be proud of being Norwegian, you as people asserted your uniqueness, at least within the context of Europe. I wish Norwegian people would show the same pride wrt America.
Politicians are a different class. Marxist analysis ignores this fact. Of course their class interests are better carried out under liberal governments than under communist governments. But if Marxists want to transform liberal polities, they must acknowledge the power, importance and interests of the political class, separate from the capitalist class and the working class.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Aug 10 2025 18:48 utc | 104
@ JohnGilberts, §81:
The subsequent discussion between Kasradze and Lottaz, after Sachs left, was interesting.
Sounds like Georgia is beginning to see the light, if Kasradze is anything to go by.
Russia doesn´t want to take over Georgia, it simply wants a peaceful neighbour. (As with the rest of Europe!)
But Abkhazia is lost. It´s oriented towards its fellow Circassians in Adyghea and Cherkessia.
South Ossetia, in the middle of Georgia, is a different matter and the Russians may be willing to drive a hard bargain and accept the South Ossetians into Stavropol kray (where the Alans came from) in exchange for Georgia ceding its small territories north of the Caucasus, viz. Tsanareti & Khevsureti.
This would give the Russians a secure, clear boundary along the Caucasus watershed.
The Georgians, like the West, need to learn to see things from Russia´s point of view.
Simply because Russia is big doesn´t mean it should suffer injustices any more than small countries like Georgia.
Posted by: John Marks | Aug 10 2025 18:57 utc | 105
@ Jane | Aug 10 2025 18:20 utc | 98
Agree with all that, if Zelly does try to gatecrash, the Russians would be well within their rights to pull out of the whole affair, likely seeing it as further evidence of Western duplicity.
As for how he could get there, I don’t know how he does without at least one, possibly two stopovers.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 10 2025 18:57 utc | 106
re: Johan Kaspar | Aug 10 2025 18:17 utc | 96
you asked: “So Russia has a Wunderwaffe in addition to Oreshnik?”
That could be the 9M730 Burevestnik (Russian: Буревестник; “Storm petrel”, NATO reporting name: SSC-X-9 Skyfall), a nuclear-powered cruise missile with virtually unlimited range.
Posted by: Perimetr | Aug 10 2025 18:59 utc | 107
But the conflict has run into 2025, which I recall was a Shoigu-Gerasimov| Russian military prediction in 2022.”
~Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 10 2025 2:43 utc | 186
Beautiful post about spin and reality of the initial invasion I would add that they secured the Chernobyl NPP and the ZPP also. But may I offer my recollection as to that prediction?
Shoigu’s job was to whip the Russian MIC into shape, as I recall. He had to reorganize, set up new production lines, and generally focus on what was needed for the SMO.
That is what he was referring to, when he said it would be completed in 2025. Not the SMO itself, which he didn’t run, the military production necessary to supply it.
And he did a fine job, if you ask me.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Aug 10 2025 19:05 utc | 108
@ Norwegian, §99 & John Kaspar, §104:
You both describe exactly what has happened to England.
Politicians could once walk freely about the country. Not any more.
The reason is governments, just like the Quislings Stoltenberg and Brundtland, have rejected the people and their views, thinking governments rule by divine right. The ideological capture of Western Europe by this supercilious generation of politicians has been the downfall of Europe.
Posted by: John Marks | Aug 10 2025 19:07 utc | 109
@TJandTheBear | Aug 10 2025 13:56 utc | 7
“That’s a Western rationalization. As EO pointed out the RF never intended to actually defeat Ukraine, just scare them into the peace agreement while clearing out the Azovs down south.”
To be clear my argument isn’t pro-West or anything of the kind- in fact it’s mirroring what came from several front line RF troops at the time (such comments dried up long ago as the consequences of public dissent was made apparent well into the first year of the war, example again Strelkov though I fully acknowledge he wasn’t an actual member of the military at the time)
The argument is that everyone’s sh#t stinks, and in conflict you ignore that at your own peril. Kharkov was always supposed to fall quickly- or at least cut-off so that it could be squeezed like Mariupol until it fell. In little dribs and drabs that have leaked out from RF leadership over the years this was made apparent and there were some repercussions (I believe a chief of intelligence was sacked) again a rarity for a system steeped in byzantine hierarchical power structures.
Russia never meaningfully reconciled their failure at Kharkov and they paid for it in 3 very serious ways;
1) The war continued. Had Russia taken or neutralized the city early in the war (we’re talking the first few weeks, again on paper everyone believed this would happen being only 40Km from the border) Ukraine would have been at serious risk of losing everything to the south-east. In short, all of the regions RF was trying to take, minus Kherson. For the AFU,
having lost one of their biggest cities with a large enemy force able to push on the Dnieper and cut the country in half, completely bypassing all of the nightmare fortifications in Donbass was as big or bigger of a threat as the kinda sorta push on Kiev. Never mind the staggering blow to morale, city of 1.4 million behind the lines. Fact is in over 3 years of fighting, not a single city of more than 500,000 has been taken by the Russians, top contender is Mariupol at just over 400K.
If the Russians had taken Kharkov (which was their intent) they would have had a dagger poised right at Ukraines’ heart during the negotiations as well.
2) Enough videos, photos and accounts from the front lines made it out giving glimpses of the chaotic reality on the ground and this was absolutely crushing for the Russians. Ok, crushing may not be the right word, perplexing may be more apt. This was akin to pulling back a curtain and revealing that not all is well or going according to some master plan. Before I get into the particular details, what’s important here is the overall impression of these accounts. It’s one of RF forces who often were told “go here, don’t worry you’ll be fine” and then the rude awakening when that assumption was proven false. This makes sense if you’re planning for a Crimea style takeover “show of force” where the goal is to get boots in an area quickly with the assumption that if there is resistance, it will be scattered and light. That’s not what happened and it took the RF senior leadership way too long to adapt to it.
An entire RF mech. infantry unit (it was either a platoon or a company) managed to get right inside Kharkov itself where they were then promptly wiped out. As in everyone killed (likely this was AFU intentionally letting them come in then closing the door behind) Yes, in warfare mistakes are made, orders get confused and things are kinetic and fluid, but there were several similar instances like this that happened in the Kharkov area. The AFU footage of this particular event, especially the after action of them going through the column of bloody abandoned vehicles was baffling for many on both sides. How would the RF just allow this to happen? Did they not have any fire support, or other units supporting them? Even if it was a rogue commander, why would a single captain or lt just say “Kharkov looks nice, let’s take it!” and only that unit go for a joyride?
The infamous Kraken video (I think it was Kraken) where they had managed to capture, again, a complete RF unit. I *think* it was platoon sized and I -think- they were artillery but that’s besides the point. If anyone’s seen this one, they know. This was where they had the entire unit on the ground, all of them shot in the legs or hips and basically shouting questions at them as many (most) of them were already going into shock and later dying in the video itself. Side note, the effect this video had on Russia cannot be downplayed. I suspect that regardless of the outcome of the war, the Russians will make a point to identify and go after anyone involved on a standing basis whether it takes 1 year or 20 (same thing they did for certain Chechens)
Multiple RF POW’s giving interviews and accounts. Yes, POW’s get tortured and will say whatever they are told to, not reliable blah blah blah. But the kicker here for a lot of these interviews was just plain bafflement on the part of the Russians on the camera. These accounts didn’t convey a sense of someone who had been beaten/tormented but rather just truly confused “we were told by HQ to go here, so we did, then boom we got wiped out!” that sort of thing.
The common thread from all of these accounts was one of a force that was not expecting to fight a peer adversary and then having no immediate plan B when that turned out to be the case.
3) Kharkov counter-offensive of 2022. When RF realized they couldn’t take Kharkov with the resources at hand, they switched to a new tactic- ignore it! Which then lead to the single biggest victory Ukraine has had in this war, when they basically walked through severely under-manned lines to retake Izyum, Liman, Kupyiansk, -ALMOST- got to Svatove and so on. It’s fine to say “we never planned on keeping all that anyway!” but if that is the case then why is the RF fighting so hard to re-take even a portion of that very ground they lost. Again, the failure here isn’t that RF are poor fighters or anything of the sort, the failure was senior leadership not willing to acknowledge reality on the ground and then paying for it.
Now with all that out of the way, you may think that my argument is that I’m pro west or anti Russian. Again, this post is NEITHER of those things. It’s about not acknowledging reality and then paying the consequences for that. Had Russia have taken Kharkov in 2022, likely this war would not still be happening now. Happy to be wrong. I am, after all, just a clown.
Posted by: Clown Shoes | Aug 10 2025 19:11 utc | 110
A lot of powerful interests command their power precisely because of the “wealth” bestowed upon them, as measured by these same markets. Why would they support a plot that puts themselves in jeopardy?
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 10 2025 17:00 utc | 71
Two reasons come to mind……first, “they” are currently already in jeopardy of losing their wealth to the potential loss of the “petrodollar” system to the BRICS system. Secondly, in “their” mind Epstein needs to go away NOW! because “they” know darn well if the truth comes out they will be hung from lamp post’s which will end their need for wealth or power. Plus of course, they are flat out EVIL.
I was alive and watching TV when President Kennedy got his head shot off in Dallas, TX. That said, of course “they” would do the same thing to President Trump. If “they” are going down they are going down swinging, as the saying goes.
Posted by: CeaClearly | Aug 10 2025 19:21 utc | 111
Classic Andrei M.:
This criminal, of course, can fly in as a private citizen, but then again–all vacancies for janitors and housekeeping are filled in Anchorage hotels.
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2025/08/to-people-who-still-get-manipulated.html
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 10 2025 19:26 utc | 112
Capitalism has invented something called “Cost of Living” where your very existence, is an ever-inflating expense – that you must overcome to survive.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 10 2025 19:28 utc | 113
Re; the Russian- Ukrainian “Front”.
It has become noticable that the present front is being made up of more and more small direct thrusts forward. The latest (7 kilometres) is only one more “rapid hole” in a front that has become porous. Consolidating “flancs” seems to be no longer necessary! Which points to an obvious inability of the Ukrainians to field anything more than a minimal “holding” force. These (drivers, cooks, etc according to one Ukrainian) are backed up by small drone units. There are larger cauldrons but these thrusts are much more the work of motorbike troops and drones combined.
I wonder if there won’t be a rout BEFORE the Alaskan meeting. By most accounts the four major defense centres will probably fall immediately after the meeting, or perhaps slightly later during the summer.
Dnipro is the way to go for the Russian Rodeo.
Had Russia have taken Kharkov in 2022, likely this war would not still be happening now. Happy to be wrong. I am, after all, just a clown.
Posted by: Clown Shoes | Aug 10 2025 19:11 utc | 109
It was pretty obvious at the time that the SMO was under-equipped for taking & holding Kharkov just like the force headed towards Kiev. Had NATO really jumped in and backed an AFU offensive immediately thereafter we’d be talking an entirely different history now, but they took their time building for the “counter offensive” and lost whatever advantage they may have had.
Given what we’ve learned about Western intransigence I doubt taking Kharkov would’ve stopped the war but I can’t dismiss it entirely either.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Aug 10 2025 19:37 utc | 115
Nobody knows what sober Yeltsin might do. It’s hard to imagine what Trump could offer him elsewhere that could compensate for defeat in Ukraine. It is also hard to imagine how Trump could work with Putin on Ukraine. Us control over Europe via NATO depends on the war with Russia continuing. A (temporarily) frozen war would severely damage Putin’s popularity I suspect. But in the end, wouldn’t Putin imitate his creator Yeltsin and put down the Parliament? All it would take would be the suppression of the KPRF, so far as I can tell. Wouldn’t that be a plus for Putin? The long run results for Russia at this point may seem irrelevant to Putin, whose horizon may be shrinking as his age increases. “As long as I live” may seem to him like an eternity, something permanent.
Repost from old thread.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 10 2025 19:45 utc | 116
Maybe Trump will say, we need to invade more countries and steal more assets to keep the USA’s head above water.
“Total US debt has officially crossed above $37 trillion for the first time in history.
This puts total US debt up +$780 billion since the debt ceiling was raised following the signing of the “One Big Beautiful Bill Act” into law on July 4th.
This equates to an average rise of a whopping +$22 billion per day.
Last week alone, the government sold $724 billion in Treasuries through 10 auctions.
The US debt crisis is worse than ever”
https://nitter.poast.org/KobeissiLetter/status/1954184893992518083#m
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 10 2025 19:49 utc | 117
Mistakes, misreads and miscalculations were made by both sides; such is the majority of human experience, start off with a palette of bright colours and end up with a mud-brown mess.
I still think NATO was planning for an overwhelming Russian Blitzkreig-style “shock and awe” invasion, then all the small arms, anti-tank and anti-aircraft weaponry would be enough to sustain a long-term Ukrainian guerilla campaign, draining and debilitating Russian forces, with a view to generating enough revulsion among the Russian civilian population that they would rise up, overthrow the “Putin regime” and all would be well with the world.
Russia didn’t oblige, and suddenly NATO discovers it hasn’t got a Plan B, hence the hurried scratching around for penny-packet numbers of Leopards, Challengers, Patriots etc., none of which have distinguished themselves as the much-vaunted “game-changers”, a phrase that seems to have fallen out of use for some reason…
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 10 2025 19:59 utc | 118
The US Vice President also said that preparations are now underway for a meeting of the three leaders-Trump, Zelensky and Putin – to discuss ways to end the war.
So Putin is so afraid that he woukd acceptvecen this?
Posted by: vargas | Aug 10 2025 20:07 utc | 119
I think we all had an idea that he was a Mossad agent/informant.
“New photo emerges of Jeffrey Epstein on his private jet wearing an IDF (Israel Defense Forces) sweat shirt.”
https://nitter.poast.org/wikileaks/status/1953991025178915300#m
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 10 2025 20:12 utc | 120
The US debt crisis is worse than ever”
https://nitter.poast.org/KobeissiLetter/status/1954184893992518083#m
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 10 2025 19:49 utc | 116
######
Metaphorically, as long as someone issues another credit card, the borrowing will continue.
The “crisis” will be real when no one will buy US treasuries. We’re getting very close to that point.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 10 2025 20:13 utc | 121
Posted by: vargas | Aug 10 2025 20:07 utc | 118
######
No one should assume that Russia is going to capitulate, which would be tantamount to annihilation. The siloviki wouldn’t allow it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the meeting doesn’t happen or Russia gives nothing beyond helping Trump distract everyone from his involvement in human trafficking with Jeffrey Epstein and the 2 million people he is helping to starve to death.
After all, if I were Putin, I would want Trump to remain President. He’s been great to BRICS and China.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 10 2025 20:20 utc | 122
Julian Assange back to doing what he does best – opposing injustice.
“Julian and Stella Assange helped lead more than 100,000 Australians in a march across the Sydney Harbour Bridge to oppose Israel’s campaign of slaughter, subjugation and censorship. Police had earlier tried to block the March but were overruled by the New South Wales Supreme Court”
https://nitter.poast.org/wikileaks/status/1952525786063224981#m
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 10 2025 20:22 utc | 123
Sources on Zionists and their mercenaries war crimes in Gaza.
US Green Beret: Israeli “Hunger Games in Gaza” (h/t Sen. Chris Van Hollen)
juancole.com/2025/07/green-a…
Ex-US contractor says he saw IDF commit war crimes at aid sites; GHF rejects ‘false claims’
timesofisrael.com/ex-us-cont…
Democracy Now: Fmr. Green Beret Who Worked at Gaza Food Sites Reveals Rampant War Crimes
democracynow.org/2025/7/29/a…
youtube.com/watch?v=57htMYk4…
BBC News
Former US Green Beret says Israel committed war crimes at Gaza food distribution site
youtube.com/watch?v=72aZhsNM…
France 24 Exclusive: GHF ‘complicit in war crimes’ in Gaza, says former aid contractor
france24.com/en/middle-east/…
Green Beret Anthony Agular recounts how a 5-year-old Palestinian kissed his hands to thank him for the food Agular gave him
https://nitter.poast.org/wikileaks/status/1950898764647923759#m
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 10 2025 20:24 utc | 124
@ CeaClearly | Aug 10 2025 19:21 utc | 110
I take your points, just to explore further, from a narrative management perspective ‘Epstein’ has already gone away; it is no longer an MSM talking-point, therefore it’s no longer important for the majority of news consumers, even among those who consider themselves well-informed. Job done, it’s gone away and any concerted effort to bring it back will be “headed off at the pass”, so to speak.
Secondly, some of the ‘they’, the powerful interests, have a dynastical outlook, seeking to maintain power and influence for their descendant generations, even if this means having to wriggle out from under the US$ dependency and manoeuvring themselves into the new wealth centres (or just buying gold…); ‘they’ will not be blowing things up any time soon by assassinating VVP/DJT.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 10 2025 20:26 utc | 125
There’s no better example of such tomfoolery as with the election of Trump.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Aug 10 2025 13:44 utc | 5
And go figure. Genocide Joe and Kopmala couldn’t even get a leftist like me to vote for her over Trump considering the genocide sponsorship, destruction of free speech, and rolling out of the red carpet to corporate/Zionist fascism ala “nothing will fundamentally change.”
Sometimes there are consequences. I just wonder if 75% of the Maga folks who are actually lower middle class or working poor have figured it out yet.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 10 2025 20:26 utc | 126
Can someone tell me what is the difference between the pnac and maga, please?
For I see none.
The megalomaniac psychopath tries desperately to save the ukronazi regime that the pnac installed in Kiev in 2014 and advised and armed uninterruptedly since then.
The objectives of the SMO: demilitarisation and denazification. It does not fit with the megalomaniac psychopath.
Posted by: Naive | Aug 10 2025 20:26 utc | 127
There’s quite a few (LFI) Labour Friends of Israel British politicians on the Israeli payroll.
“Last year, Yvette Cooper received £215,000 from the Israel lobby. Then she proscribed Palestine Action as a ‘terrorist organisation’.”
https://nitter.poast.org/MyArrse/status/1954581076606595328#m
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 10 2025 20:28 utc | 128
@Republicofscotland | Aug 10 2025 20:28 utc | 127
This is the Ukraine Thread!
Posted by: NoName | Aug 10 2025 20:36 utc | 129
@ English Outsider | Aug 10 2025 18:44 utc | 102 “The Russians will achieve the objectives set out in Putin’s speech on the eve of the SMO and confirmed often since. Notably in the June 14th ’24 speech to the Foreign office officials. A hundred thousand plus dead since February ’22 ensures that. The Russians will no doubt attempt to find some formula that will save Trump’s face but there’s no longer much room for that.”
No disagreement from me!
“It’s the Ukrainians one is sorry for. Could have been the most prosperous country in Europe, certainly in the post-Soviet world. Then we came along and used it as an attack dog. Wrecked the place. As I quote from “b” so often, a “crime”. Just one in a sequence of destruction from before Iraq, by no means the worst, but one would have to have a heart of stone not to feel for them.”
I believe the correct word to describe this is “tragedy”
Posted by: Clown Shoes | Aug 10 2025 20:38 utc | 130
I believe the correct word to describe this is “tragedy”
Posted by: Clown Shoes | Aug 10 2025 20:38 utc | 129
Tragic indeed. At some point Ukrainians will realize who really killed their country, and it won’t be Russia.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Aug 10 2025 20:39 utc | 131
NoName (128).
Yip I realised that – after posting a few Palestine comment which I then posted on the right thread apologies.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Aug 10 2025 20:40 utc | 132
I believe the correct word to describe this is “tragedy”
Posted by: Clown Shoes | Aug 10 2025 20:38 utc | 129
Absolutely this. As humans, I wonder if we even have the right to describe ourselves as “civilised”? (In the context of this thread, a purely rhetorical question, anyone wishing to actively debate this please adjourn to the Week in Review/Open topic thread, thank you for your attention.)
Meanwhile there seems to be more stuff stirring in Ukraine; I’ll post the headline and link but my translation add-on seems to be scrambling much of the actual topic:
After the NABU protests – hunger riots. Agent Tymoshenko’s revelations
https://politnavigator.news/posle-nabu-protestov-golodnye-bunty-otkroveniya-agenta-timoshenko.html
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 10 2025 21:01 utc | 133
Re: Naïve #126
Can someone tell me what is the difference between the pnac and maga, please?
That’s an easy one …
MAGA – Trump – AIPAC lobby – Gaza Genocide
I have a riddle for you Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene
On funding Biden’s war in Ukraine …
’MAGA did not vote for more weapons to Ukraine,’ the Georgia congresswoman wrote on X
Republic of Scotland.
Don’t allow yourself to be diverted by the the facisti.
The genocide in Gaza is being carried out by the same animals who attempted genocide in Eastern Ukraine.
Your comments are equally valid with regard to both.
Keep telling the truth no matter the cost.
Posted by: Merkin Scot | Aug 10 2025 21:21 utc | 135
Republic of Scotland.
Don’t allow yourself to be diverted by the the facisti.
The genocide in Gaza is being carried out by the same animals who attempted genocide in Eastern Ukraine.
Your comments are equally valid with regard to both.
Keep telling the truth no matter the cost.
Posted by: Merkin Scot | Aug 10 2025 21:21 utc | 136
reply to 103
You do not understand what I said.
First, Ukraine does not have endless men. I never said such a thing. They have several million to sacrifice. Perhaps Russia could use encirclements to allow them to leave Ukraine and save their lives. A better outcome than EU/Zelensky intend.
Second, does collapse require internal violence? I think it may. AGAIN, does Darwin speak to us here? Did the most capable and willing Ukrainians die or run to other nations? What’s left then? Men hiding in basements. Men who can’t show up for corruption protests. Is it women or the old often fighting with Conscription officers? How do get a revolt against Zelensky with these leftovers – who are destined to be caught and sent at gunpoint to trenches to die. If they run away or try to surrender, they may get shot in the back.
Can I make this any clearer? I don’t see collapse….just rot.
Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 10 2025 21:25 utc | 137
@Merkin Scot
First, his user name is Republicofscotland not Republic of Scotland.
Second, there is a thread for Palestine and a thread for Ukraine. Are you to dense to understand, that stuff you want to post about Palestine you post in the Palestine thread and stuff you want to post about Ukraine you post in the Ukraine thread? Obviously you are. Republicofscotland is not, it was a honest mistake of him.
Pointing an error out makes someone a fascist? You are a moron.
Posted by: NoName | Aug 10 2025 21:30 utc | 138
I can walk imagine the only documents that DT wants z to sign is…my country and my politicians are totally corrupt and fraudulent. Here is a cheque to return 360billion, and we will pay you in gold in 24hours.
Posted by: Jo | Aug 10 2025 21:39 utc | 139
NATO officially acknowledging the right of conquest is unexpected but sure okay
video
https://x.com/RWApodcast/status/1954656223867080755
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 10 2025 21:46 utc | 140
I don’t see collapse….just rot.
Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 10 2025 21:25 utc | 136
Collapse can come from rot. Corruption is a form of rot.
Collapse can come from inadequate design.
Collapse can come from an adequate design being over-stressed.
Collapse can come from neglected maintenance, as it was seen to be profitable to cut back the maintenance expenditure.
Collapse can come from outputs exceeding inputs, more accurately called an implosion.
Collapse can come from over-extended belief in capabilities.
Collapse can come from many causes, having many manifestations.
Which of the above does not apply to Ukraine?
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 10 2025 21:48 utc | 141
Hmmm…maybe Alaska to enable Russia to have a fly past of its new weapon or a test of it somewhere eg even arctic that can be tracked by the Alaskan extensive early warning systems? Enough to reveal its existence but not reveal its secrets publicly???
If only.
Posted by: Jo | Aug 10 2025 21:56 utc | 142
https://maratkhairullin.substack.com/p/the-russia-i-dream-of-forgetting
From Marat Khairullin, a departure from his normal battlefield dispatches in Ukraine. I recommend his substack if you want to keep up with on-the-ground realities at the fronts. This is a history. An essay from his book.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 10 2025 22:05 utc | 143
It’s the Ukrainians one is sorry for. Could have been the most prosperous country in Europe, certainly in the post-Soviet world. Then we came along and used it as an attack dog. Wrecked the place. As I quote from “b” so often, a “crime”. Just one in a sequence of destruction from before Iraq, by no means the worst, but one would have to have a heart of stone not to feel for them.
Posted by: English Outsider | Aug 10 2025 18:44 utc | 102
==============
I certainly agree regarding the Ukraine’s potential to become the richest country in Europe. But they made it easy for the West/NATO to use them because of the crippling level of corruption in the new, independent Ukraine (officially confirmed). That was what really closed the door to the EU and caused the population to start to plummet after 1991 as millions of Ukrainians voted with their feet.
The Ukrainians then also made themselves the useful idiots of the EU in the latter’s attempt to strangle and control Russia economically via, among other things, the natural gas business.
They were utter ingrates toward the Russians, who (as the Soviet Union) were the only country/people who actually helped the Ukraine.
The so-called ethnic Ukrainians tried to rub out the Russians.
I feel sorry for the Ukrainians, but they brought a lot of this mess on themselves. They are not that popular in Europe, after abandoning their own country.
Posted by: Jane | Aug 10 2025 22:14 utc | 145
RE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp0wfO-r2Bo
“Russia-US meet – US prepares dagger of betrayal (again).”
See also #73
Regarding sentiments along the line of “traps”.
It was clear in Putins 2007 Munich speech the snake in the grass and the clear ambition of US global primacy/hegemony.
The subsequent years of crying foul of “betrayal” and “deception” are nice for drama and public perception & great PR campaign to reshape their own populations desires of the Western ways, but can hardly be taken serious as “trusting” the West.
The “poor Russia” … naive trap thing, is old. And has been since the invasion of Libya & Syria.
They hella knew who and what they were dealing with when they signed Minsk. So, honestly, enough.
If Putin signs a “bad deal”, it’s what he wanted.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 10 2025 22:20 utc | 146
reply to 140
Which of the above does not apply to Ukraine?
All of them or any one of them. You say “can”…..like ‘might’ or ‘may’ or ‘could be’.
Can EU still afford small arms, if nothing else? So, ship those to Ukraine. Meanwhile, Conscription Nazis invade basements, construction sites and junior high schools. Take them away in vans, train them for a week and dump them in the trenches. Oh, protest against this? By women and the elderly ? So, there’s pretty much nobody to kill the kidnappers? Oh, well……
So, Russia kills or incapacitated maybe 1100 to 1300 a day. That might be close to half a million a year, so what, ten years to go? Can EU pay for that? Maybe…. Who says no to this? Can they end Zelensky? Nope. So it all goes on and on.
Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 10 2025 22:30 utc | 147
Posted by: Jane | Aug 10 2025 22:14 utc | 144
I think Ukraine is a cursed place that was created for bad things to happen. It has created some individuals for whom I have great respect, though. Motorola, Givi and Nestor Makhno.
I have no idea why Moscow stopped Givi and Co. back in 2014, or was it 2015, when they were on a roll. Moscow allowed the Minsk 1 and 2.
Perhaps you are the commenter here who used the Peanuts Lucy and Charlie Brown football analogy. Seems to work everytime. Or maybe it’s a built in feature.
Paris 1934 – Nestor Makhno
Mazepa – Tchaikovsky
Givi
I wish I were 1% the man Givi was.
Posted by: lex talionis | Aug 10 2025 22:33 utc | 148
Can I make this any clearer? I don’t see collapse….just rot.
Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 10 2025 21:25 utc | 136
I still can’t see how you can reconcile “They have several million to sacrifice.” and “What’s left then?”.
If they have them then where are they? Why are their replacement numbers so miserable??
I’d put forth that they simply cannot generate the numbers necessary to sustain the fight and (YES) the “collapse” we’re seeing in progress is more than ample proof of that.
Do you think WWII Germany totally ran out of men? Of course not, but they still collapsed. There’s an effective limit to mobilization and they’ve pretty much reached it.
Here’s a progressive video map of WWII — watch how Germany’s ground losses accelerate after D-day (at around the 5:30 mark):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOVEy1tC7nk
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Aug 10 2025 22:36 utc | 149
H/T @ Newbie for posting this link on an earlier thread, but it really deserves front-page visibility, so reposting it here: https://maratkhairullin.substack.com/p/the-russia-i-dream-of-forgetting
I sincerely urge everyone to read it, and challenge everyone to remain unmoved. As @ Newbie observed with his post, if you still don’t understand after reading it you need a new heart, because your present one is dead.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 10 2025 17:39 utc | 82
https://maratkhairullin.substack.com/p/the-russia-i-dream-of-forgetting
From Marat Khairullin, a departure from his normal battlefield dispatches in Ukraine. I recommend his substack if you want to keep up with on-the-ground realities at the fronts. This is a history. An essay from his book.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 10 2025 22:05 utc | 142
Thank you you both for agreeing it is worth reading… from the heart (from basic common decency)
Also (for good sense now) popov’s view on the alaska summit is wort pondering
https://maratkhairullin.substack.com/p/mikhail-popov-opinion
Forever war is nobody’s (sane) objective. Te west understanding that (sooner rather than latter) would be welcome.
As for putin killed or captured? Samson option is justified in certain cases (and as for “would RF?” I would bet putin stopped many who would have already). So, pretty safe.
Posted by: Newbie | Aug 10 2025 22:36 utc | 150
Slimplicius’ latest offering provides information about VVP handing over to Witkoff the ‘Order of Lenin’ awarded posthumously to one Micheal A Gloss, soldier from the 137th Regt, 106 Airborne Div KIA 2024.
Micheal was the son of the current Dep Dir Digital Innovation CIA and points to this as a troll by VVP.
Let’s consider the facts.
The US cannot determine what Ukraine does. Yes, it can fatally affect Ukraine’s ability to prolong the war, nothing else.
Resistance/terrorist actions are all still possible without US input.
Vance’s role as screening action in Europe shows disunity, distrust and deception amongst the Allies.
Trade/weapons control are main factors directly threatening US and deals on this front could slow down the descent into irrelevance.
Make of it what you will.
Posted by: Suresh | Aug 10 2025 22:38 utc | 151
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 10 2025 14:36 utc | 19
Brian Berletic said it best.
The US has the greatest ‘superweapon’ that can subjugate ‘many’ entire countries will to govern, become subservient willingly to US without any Oreshniks.
Good luck to Russia, still stuck in the misled mentality.
Posted by: TheTurk | Aug 10 2025 22:51 utc | 153
I don’t see collapse….just rot.
Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 10 2025 21:25 utc | 136
Collapse can come from rot. Corruption is a form of rot.
Collapse can come from inadequate design.
Collapse can come from an adequate design being over-stressed.
Collapse can come from neglected maintenance, as it was seen to be profitable to cut back the maintenance expenditure.
Collapse can come from outputs exceeding inputs, more accurately called an implosion.
Collapse can come from over-extended belief in capabilities.
Collapse can come from many causes, having many manifestations.
Which of the above does not apply to Ukraine?
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 10 2025 21:48 utc | 140
Adding on to Jeremy’s comment for Eighthman.
Collapse can come from making promises with no follow through and threats with no bite.
Collapse can come when military might and proficiency have been exposed as a mirage.
Which of the above doesn’t to NATO and the US.
Posted by: Suresh | Aug 10 2025 22:51 utc | 154
reply to 148
Germany didn’t have payments pouring in from all of Europe. Nor were they favored with international supplies coming in to keep them fighting. Yes, I get the Nazi analogy but the situation isn’t the same. Hitler got surrounded and forced into suicide. Not Zelensky, EU seems to do everything they can to keep him in power. They don’t even insist on elections !
Ukraine can grab school kids, women, ANYBODY MALE WHO SHOWS UP FOR WORK. Millions? Yes. Useful simply to obstruct Russians and die. What’s left? Bullet absorbing humans sent to the front. Anyone gonna stop Zelensky? Nope.
This is a political/military Limbo dance…. “how low can you go?”. Somewhat similar to Israel…oh, isn’t it horrible, horrible, horrible. Is anyone gonna end Netanyahu? Or starvation? Nope…. there’s no bottom, nothing unthinkable.
Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 10 2025 22:52 utc | 155
We live in an upside down world, where retards continue their mental derangement
no matter the costs.
Iran and Russia are the same in mentality. Consistently proven.
Iran, IAEA to Discuss New Formats of Interaction on Monday – Foreign Ministry
Iran says that its cooperation with the IAEA is conditional on safeguards for its nuclear facilities and scientists. The suspension of cooperation is linked to Iran’s criticism of the IAEA and Grossi for inaction amid US and Israeli strikes on nuclear facilities in Fordo, Isfahan, and Natanz.
Posted by: TheTurk | Aug 10 2025 22:55 utc | 156
Posted by: Oui | Aug 10 2025 21:12 utc | 133
That’s an easy one …
MAGA – Trump – AIPAC lobby – Gaza Genocide
PNAC – Biden – aipac lobby – ashkenazi Blinken – Gaza Genocide.
I have a riddle for you Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene
On funding Biden’s war in Ukraine …
’MAGA did not vote for more weapons to Ukraine,’ the Georgia congresswoman wrote on X
Trump decided to let the European countries buy yankee weapons to be sent to the ukronazis.
Same result.
And the flow of weapons to Ukraine did not cease during the megalomaniac psycho firt presidency.
The war did not begin in 2022, but in 2014…
Posted by: Naive | Aug 10 2025 22:57 utc | 157
“Can someone tell me what is the difference between the pnac and maga, please?
For I see none.”
Posted by: Naive | Aug 10 2025 20:26 utc | 126
Different rhetoric for the rubes is all. Different target audience. PNAC is the real long-term agenda, MAGA was rhetoric with a different face made for the rubes to buy into. Some of the the smarter MAGA rubes can see they were “betrayed” for the umpteenth time, hence they call it “MIGA” now instead of MAGA. But their opinions don’t matter much.
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 10 2025 23:01 utc | 158
Can someone tell me what is the difference between the pnac and maga, please?
For I see none.
Posted by: Naive | Aug 10 2025 20:26 utc | 126
PNAC was externally focussed, with American hegemony over the entire globe being the overarching theme. Think 7 wars in 5 years.
MAGA was domestically focused, against immigration, government waste, DEI, woke ideology, etc.
The two converge because Trump’s sponsors from a small country in the eastern Mediterranean own him. What combination of bribes and extortion are involved is an open question.
Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Aug 10 2025 23:02 utc | 159
The US has the greatest ‘superweapon’ that can subjugate ‘many’ entire countries will to govern, become subservient willingly to US without any Oreshniks.
Good luck to Russia, still stuck in the misled mentality.
Posted by: TheTurk | Aug 10 2025 22:51 utc | 152
MR TURK, STOP TALKIN COMPLETE AND UTTER BOLLOX!
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 10 2025 23:05 utc | 160
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 10 2025 20:26 utc | 125
Genocide Joe and Kopmala couldn’t even get a leftist like me to vote for her over Trump considering the genocide sponsorship, destruction of free speech, and rolling out of the red carpet to corporate/Zionist fascism ala “nothing will fundamentally change.”
The message I’m getting from this is 1)much better to re-fight the election than to contemplate the real existence of what I voted for 2)much better to tell us Harris’ imaginary/counterfactual presidency is even worse on Palestine and 3)voting Democrat is voting left and there are no alternatives except Trump. Well maybe the last sentences are meant to tell us that MAGA is the lower middle class and working poor. Personally I thought that quite a few of the working poor and lower middle class are downright hostile to Trump and even more lukewarm. I still say that the hard core Trumpers are the big rich, like the crew in his cabinet, or the little rich, the ones who lord over their rural districts. Bank managers, automobile dealership owners, doctors and dentists with their own buildings, lawyers hoping to become judges, sheriffs and police chiefs and national guard reserve officers, fast food franchise operators, land developers, owners of the local sawmill or coal mine or meat packing, commercial farmers…you know, the salt of the earth, hard working property owners who may get checks or freebies from the feds but it’s always, always something they have a right to, like Colorado River water or federal grazing lands.
I wanted to vote for de la Cruz, but my state doesn’t count write in votes unless they’re officially certified before the vote. So I voted Stein, who was at least on the ballot. As it happens I have never voted for any Democrat for president precisely because I don’t regard the Democrats as left. I feel some resentment at the imputation that Dems are left.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 10 2025 23:05 utc | 161
Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 10 2025 22:52 utc | 154
########
-or-
Perhaps all of that anger is building up and could explode in rage and topple governments.
That something hasn’t happened yet doesn’t preclude it from ever happening.
If that happens, it will be a bad time to be a Judeo-Christian, a Trump voter, or a Jew (fair or not).
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 10 2025 23:10 utc | 162
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 10 2025 23:05 utc | 159
I think The Turk is talking about blue jeans and pop songs. And maybe junk food.
Posted by: lex talionis | Aug 10 2025 23:14 utc | 163
Brian who has called EVERYTHING right so far.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Aug 10 2025 13:44 utc | 5
Oh, sonny boy…
Except that he has been massively incorrect. He kept droning on and on that the West providing weapons, money, etc. makes absolutely no difference.
Yet it has. A million? dead people does make a difference, and that process has since considerably hastened the waning of Europe, the destruction of UKrain and accelerated the cementing of BRICS into an immune to US influence block.
Brian gets a score of F for the retarded remarks of “Absolutely NO difference”. BIG FAIL for someone so YT popular. Includes the nominally Greek chuckles.
Which is not to say they have not made other astute observations.
Get a grip sonny boy
Posted by: jopalolive | Aug 10 2025 23:14 utc | 164
I think The Turk is talking about blue jeans and pop songs. And maybe junk food.
Posted by: lex talionis | Aug 10 2025 23:14 utc | 162
_______
Or maybe he means the US dollar, although its usefulness as a weapon is diminishing.
Posted by: malenkov | Aug 10 2025 23:19 utc | 165
The message I’m getting from this is:
1) much better to re-fight the election than to contemplate the real existence of what I voted for
2) much better to tell us Harris’ imaginary/counterfactual presidency is even worse on Palestine and
3) voting Democrat is voting left and there are no alternatives except Trump. Well maybe the last sentences are meant to tell us that MAGA is the lower middle class and working poor.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 10 2025 23:05 utc | 160
I think you are picking the wrong target here (Tom Q), but largely correct otherwise. I would contest your point #3 because in reality, Trump’s rhetoric in the campaign did actually appeal to a large segment of the lower middle class and working poor, and that includes a huge number of Hispanics, not just whites. They were all just fooled by the rhetoric, which always happens no matter the party.
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 10 2025 23:21 utc | 166
@English Outsider | Sun, 10 Aug 2025 13:15:00 GMT | 4
I believe if we in the West don’t get an accurate assessment of what happened then and why, and a more accurate account of what happened in the run-up to February 2022, we’re going to go down without ever knowing why or how.
I think it’s key to understanding the whole SMO. The Western narrative (already picked up here by trolls) is that Russia wanted Kiev and all of Ukraine, but failed. Therefore, the war is a strategic loss for Russia.
The Kremlin’s view, and the one many posters here take, is that Russian goals were/are more modest – they wanted to get Kiev’s attention, which they did, to accede to Russian demands for neutrality, and to protect the breakaway republics.
If the latter is the case, then Russia can take a deal giving them the whole Donbas, (in exchange for territory in Kharkov probably), and freezing the contact line in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, and still have the SMO as a strategic victory.
I think the endgame is approaching. A final deal probably won’t be reached in Alaska, but the groundwork will be laid. Odessa, Kiev, Kharkov, the breakup of Ukraine, are all non-starters, and off the table. If Russia’s goals at the start of the SMO were modest, then they weren’t even a consideration, or at least a minor one, for the Kremlin.
Posted by: James M. | Aug 10 2025 23:24 utc | 167
Reply to 161
I wish you to be right.
I get tempted to believe clickbait types who think life is just a simulation. How does this political mass levitation continue ceaselessly? So, Merz, Macron, Starmer and Netanyahu are unpopular and lots of their own people hate them
So what? They’re still in power – seemingly with no end in sight. No wonder they love Zelensky, he’s one of them, a sort of political immortal.
This war cannot end as long as Zelensky is in power. Furthermore, he CANNOT be removed from power except by gunpoint and I mean that literally. There are no elections. No amount of whining will make any difference.
Second: Who would refuse to fight? Syrski? (really?) Mercouris made clear – even if Ukrainian troops are surrounded, out of ammo and doomed, Zelensky WILL NOT ALLOW THEIR SURRENDER. They are expected to die. Anybody gonna stop him? Nope.
It would be wonderful to witness a general uprising to stop this war….but the longer this goes on, is it all the more likely that no one ever will?
Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 10 2025 23:29 utc | 168
“He kept droning on and on that the West providing weapons, money, etc. makes absolutely no difference.”
Posted by: jopalolive | Aug 10 2025 23:14 utc | 163
It’s clear and obvious that you have never really listened to Brian Berletic, so you must be confusing him with someone else (or you are just lying). He has never once in the years I have watched him casually dismiss the weapons the West sends as “making no difference”, nor has he ever dismissed the West’s capabilities to inflict damages on Russia or anyone else by means military or otherwise.
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 10 2025 23:32 utc | 169
What to do is a difficult question.
Candidates lie, and even if they are honest before the election that doesn’t mean they will fulfill their promises.
Relying on politics to keep you safe and happy has always been a fool’s errand.
Make good choices, be in a community with similar values, and if necessary, move.
Passively demanding that the world provide for us is childish and never works.
Yes, Trump lied but many of his voters wanted to be lied to, just like Obama lied, and Zelensky lied.
If you bought a lying politician and you’re 40 or older, that’s on you. No refunds.
You decide what truth is and you decide what is acceptable, not a government or politician.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 10 2025 23:38 utc | 170
@Naive | Sun, 10 Aug 2025 20:26:00 GMT | 126
Can someone tell me what is the difference between the pnac and maga, please?
For I see none.
PNAC – Project for a New American Century was a neoconservatvice think tank, now defunct, designed to help shape and project American primacy abroad, through military dominance and exportation of democracy. Openly free trade, it was external, and led by Kristol and Kagan. Think Weekly Standard.
MAGA – is a primarily paleoconservative nationalist movement. it is skeptical of war and alliances, and wants stricter controls on immigration, trade, and more law and order domestically. Internal in focus, it has deep roots, even going back to George Washington. Think Charles Lindbergh or John Birch Society.
They are both rooted in American exceptionalism but take opposite approaches. PNAC thinks American exceptionalism should lead to American primacy (i.e., empire) and the exportation of American ideals abroad. MAGA thinks the rest of the world should kick rocks, America is for (white) Americans, and others should keep out. Also, America should (mostly) mind its business abroad.
There are variants of both, and probably some overlap, but those are the differences in their purest forms. Trump is not completely MAGA, but he does exploit the movement, and his ideals are the closest the paleoconservatives have gotten in a president.
Posted by: James M. | Aug 10 2025 23:44 utc | 171
If you bought a lying politician and you’re 40 or older, that’s on you. No refunds.
You decide what truth is and you decide what is acceptable, not a government or politician.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 10 2025 23:38 utc | 169
Not everyone has an IQ of 115 like you do, nor does everyone (especially not the working poor and lower middle class) have the unlimited free time to study geopolitics in detail like you do.
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 10 2025 23:47 utc | 172
****** James M @166
Odessa, Kiev, Kharkov, the breakup of Ukraine, are all non-starters, and off the table.
******
I don’t think so except in the sense of Russian occupation.
The Russians want a security zone and these areas are very much part of that, and they will be called demilitarized zones.
Consider just Odessa. If the Odessa Oblast is declared part of the demilitarized zone; then no military shipments through the port and no Ukrainian Navy. Both big issues for the Russians. The other issue concerning Odessa is how are the Black Sea Economic Zones going to be reconfigured now that Russia has Crimea and parts of Kherson?
Now take the Demilitarized Zone definition up the East Bank of the Dnipro and what other issues are there?
How is Russian objectives for a security zone going to be satisfied?
Posted by: Jerr | Aug 10 2025 23:49 utc | 173
I think Ukraine is a cursed place that was created for bad things to happen. . . .
Posted by: lex talionis | Aug 10 2025 22:33 utc | 147
==================
It certainly seems that way.
Ukrainian intellectuals have been struggling with the identity of the Ukraine since at least the mid-nineteenth century.
Maybe too many ghosts lurking in the miasmic mists of the mighty but also sluggish Dnieper?
Too much Malaya Rossiya chip on shoulder?
See Gogol, “Evenings on a Farm near Dikanka.”
Maybe a strong central govt. in Moscow was the best thing that happened to the Ukraine.
Force everyone to speak Russian. As the French did as part of the process of getting control of their unruly bits—well into the 19th Century, according to Graham Robb, The Discovery of France.
Posted by: Jane | Aug 10 2025 23:50 utc | 174
I have bad feelings seeing Putin going to meet Trump in Alaska. I have my own reasons for this, basically witnessing 65 years of US foreign policy, but I believe Brian Berldtic is doing a much better job of exposing the continuity of US policy than I can do myself. So many heads of state were fooled by succesive US administrations. Putin likes to look under all the rocks but I would skip the meeting with Trump. Putin owes Trumo nothing. As they say in New Brunswick, “feed a pig and he will sh*t on your doorstep.”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp0wfO-r2Bo
Posted by: ichard L | Aug 11 2025 0:08 utc | 175
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 10 2025 17:39 utc | 82
H/T @ Newbie for posting this link on an earlier thread, but it really deserves front-page visibility, so reposting it here: https://maratkhairullin.substack.com/p/the-russia-i-dream-of-forgetting
I sincerely urge everyone to read it, and challenge everyone to remain unmoved. As @ Newbie observed with his post, if you still don’t understand after reading it you need a new heart, because your present one is dead.
I endorse everything in this post by JRL absolutely 100%.
maratkhairullin is worth reading at any time regarding his REports from the Front, but this piece is very personnel, and is a very powerful argument for why the RF (and the despicable Putin) are pursuing the war (SMO if you like) with such tenacity.
If you have not already done so, I urge all MoA visitors, trolls, and serious contributers to read the MK piece carefully and to appreciate where he (and I am sure a great many other Russians) are coming from.
Also, thank you newbie for your initial post on this topic.
Posted by: Barrel Brown | Aug 11 2025 0:09 utc | 176
The Atlantic magazine
Petulant that evil Putin is soiling U$ soil.
Headline:
§| Trump Invites Putin to Step Foot in America
The Art of the Deal president hopes he can broker peace.|
>>>
I’ve been enjoying the contradictions and conniption of mockingbirds.
Joyous; Putin has been humiliated and subjugated and is traveling to the U$ to bow beneath the Orange King, as is expected of vassals.
Fury; that the Most Evil Man Alive is allowed to (invited!) onto the precious sacred holy-of-holy U$ territory. He’s going to steal our oxygen!!!
___
And throughout Sunday Australian time, our media reporting as Brit Aussie EU and other controlled mockingbirds squawked a discordant chorus.
Looking for leads from the U$ Big Lie Media, but finding only confusion.
Is it a humiliation for Putin to touch Alaska? Or
Is it a indignity that Putin touch the sanctity of Alaska?
Tell us so we can report regurgitate in sync.
/ Then the outrage as it became obvious delegates and mockingbirds would be unable to freely and easily descend on the venue. Trump and Putin will bring their own press pools and the rest will be shut out.
/ Impotence as EU UK and mockingbirds screech… “nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine” … realising their hysterical ululating was just as easily ignores as is the tantrums of toddlers.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 11 2025 0:27 utc | 177
****** James M @166
Odessa, Kiev, Kharkov, the breakup of Ukraine, are all non-starters, and off the table.
******
I don’t think so except in the sense of Russian occupation.
While I generally appreciate your comments James, on this one I think you are wrong and think that the contribution by- Posted by: Jerr | Aug 10 2025 23:49 utc | 172
is very pertinent to the situation.
Actually, so far as Odessa is concerned, I will be disappointed if RF do not fully acquire that city and the entire adjacent Blak Sea coast.
Somewhat related to this is the comment – Posted by: lex talionis | Aug 10 2025 22:33 utc | 147
“I think Ukraine is a cursed place that was created for bad things to happen. . . “.
I doubt if that fate was actually per-ordained, but the history of the SW “Ukraine”(going back to the time of the Scytians at least)certainly supports that conclusion- very cynical though it is.
Posted by: Barrel Brown | Aug 11 2025 0:45 utc | 178
Mr Trump’s opinion of Mr Putin will rise substantially if the planned meeting in Anchorage takes place as proposed and, of course, if Mr Putin turns up, which he most likely will.
Mr Trump judges his “opponents” first and foremost on how tough and strong they are. He respects someone who shows no fear for his own life and safety.
You cannot be a tougher opponent than to engage with your opponent, willingly, on their territory. That is why Mr Putin will be treated by Trump with the greatest of respect and why the Europeans and zelensky want to sabotage the meeting.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Aug 11 2025 0:56 utc | 179
Russia has no wish or need to eliminate all Ukrainians – only the Nazi spawn of Op Aerodynamic, the ultra nationalists.
VVP cannot accept a solution based on the current line of control – the ethnic cleansing/genocide would restart if SBU and nazis remain alive.
Posted by: necromancer | Aug 11 2025 1:01 utc | 180
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 10 2025 23:21 utc | 165
I don’t keep close track of Tom Q’s comments in general, don’t know if this particular one is a lapse.
That said, it’s not clear to me what Trumpian rhetoric people responded to. I seem to recall a great deal of MSM propaganda in favor of Trump on the subject of inflation. And frankly, I’m not sure that expecting a Black woman could be elected president, especially one who was picked because she wasn’t a good campaigner (she went nowhere in the actual presidential primary campaigns of 2020,) isn’t underestimating residual racism and chauvinism. I think the fact that she came close (48.34% for Harris, 49.81% for Trump) suggests that Trump’s appeal to the working poor and the lower middle class, who surely are the large majority, is rather more limited than suggested. Plus, a lot of rural areas are basically controlled, votes are for the bosses. To put it more bluntly, the voting system is corrupt on the local scale. It not the lower middle class providing the political chieftains in rural districts.
I will say, Ishmael Reed put a lot of emphasis on the role of the rich gangsta rap type people for pushing young Black males into the Trump camp. We may not think of these people as capitalists but they are. As for the Hispanics/Latinos, well, I’ve never understood why anybody, even a Democratic Party hack, was so sure that being Latino meant you were modestly liberal. Spanish language MSM in the US is totally controlled. Is it in any respect unfriendly to Trump? The whole ethos of Latinos in general seems to be, we are here to be business owners eventually. I always thought the Great Replacement fascists were simply hysterics when they assume that Latinos becoming part of a majority with Blacks and those nasty city dwelling types with their tolerance shtick meant a permanent Democratic majority. And yes, Great Replacement freaks are cryptofascists, which includes Tucker Carlson, sorry to hurt people’s feelings.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 11 2025 1:05 utc | 181
An addendum to the mockingbird muddlement of Putin’s putrescent presumptive presence in Alaska.
Some Russians have indulged in memes and merriment, remembering Tsarist times when Alaska was Russian territory.
U$ mockingbirds, (who can never find telegram or other Russian media), have suddenly pounced on this humorous hubris, and are screeching that “Putin wants Alaska”.
Because every tweet, every meme, every post anywhere by any Russian, ever, is action directed entirely by Putin.
There aren’t 150ish million Russians. There’s only Putin and 149,999,999 million mindless minions who only act under his direct authority.
If one Russian memes something “provocative”, then that’s The Word of Putin and we (U$) should immediately respond with nukes.
(Despite having the ultimate Shitposter In Chief as president)
Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 11 2025 1:06 utc | 182
Re Early Kharkov
IIRC just as VVP initially declined to absorb Donbas alongside Crimea, due to lukewarm referendum results, the inhabitants of Kharkov had little desire to attract the wrath of SBU, should Russia subsequently withdraw its forces.
Posted by: necromancer | Aug 11 2025 1:21 utc | 183
S Brennan@62….”Those Russian commanders wanted the respect they held in the Soviet system restored and to a great degree they got what they wanted…at the cost of 120-135,000 of their comrades killed in action.” Respect? You must be kidding, what SMO have you been following……how much respect did the Generals and their staff that were on the graft have for the soldiers that were dying to line their pockets……I know, closet skeletons, they be real, listen, hear that, that’s the bones of the dead….they rattle…..
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Aug 11 2025 1:25 utc | 184
Hat tip to EO and Melaleuca for reminders of the early days of conflict. And not forgetting b’s timeline reminder of a few months ago.
We also forget that VVP was extremely constrained by fear of direct NATO involvement prior to operational deployment of the hypersonic items, when he became invincible, practically.
Posted by: necromancer | Aug 11 2025 1:34 utc | 185
Cheers, Steven.
Thanks for the response. You have been at this site for a very long time. You get more flack than LD does, actually. But you do hang in there. LD is a kind of genius at making hard-hitting succinct posts, always easy to read. You post more thoughtful things, but in big “walls-of-text”, poorly.formatted, that people often just skip over because they like little sound-bytes better
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 11 2025 1:44 utc | 186
@Barrel Brown | Mon, 11 Aug 2025 00:45:00 GMT | 177
While I generally appreciate your comments James, on this one I think you are wrong and think that the contribution by- Posted by: Jerr | Aug 10 2025 23:49 utc | 172
is very pertinent to the situation.
Actually, so far as Odessa is concerned, I will be disappointed if RF do not fully acquire that city and the entire adjacent Blak Sea coast.
We’ll see, but the deal on the table, if it is the actual deal, and what is bringing Putin to America, doesn’t include Odessa. Zelensky needs to come around still, but he can be convinced. I suspect the final agreement, whenever it is reached, will be similar to the current one, depending on how much more land the RuAF can take. Remember, Russia was/is very receptive to Trump’s land for peace swapping without Odessa.
Posted by: James M. | Aug 11 2025 2:04 utc | 187
Putin isn’t a pussy who hides in a shelter afraid to do what is right because of the “deep state”. Big difference between him and Trump. Real leaders don’t cower from their responsibilities because of some threat to themselves. They have courage, not cowardice.
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 11 2025 2:13 utc | 188
🇷🇺DMITRY MEDVEDEV:
“As the Euro-imbeciles bumble about trying to obstruct America’s efforts to help resolve the Ukrainian conflict, the Banderite regime, writhing in its death throes, is frantically recruiting the vilest scum of humanity for the front lines.
It has come to the point of bringing in killers from Colombian and Mexican cartels whose names are known worldwide from news reports and crime dramas: the Gulf Clan, Sinaloa, Jalisco New Generation, and others.
The recruitment of these thugs is being handled by a company called Segurcol Ltd from Medellín.
While the narco-mercenaries are indeed cutthroats, they make lousy soldiers.
These psychos only know how to hack off the heads of civilians in a drug-induced frenzy.
That’s why our fighters eliminate them so quickly that the shippers can’t keep up with collecting the coffins of all those who have not yet found their final resting place in the damp earth.
It’s clear that the Medellín and Sinaloa degenerates are quite cozy with their Bankovaya Street brethren who consume their snow-white product.
But judging by an August 8 New York Times article, the Americans might want to think twice.
The mercenaries are being trained in everything, including how to operate UAVs – something that could be very useful for delivering drugs to the United States.
It would be much more effective than using airplanes or submarines.
And if the US president really did issue a directive ordering the Pentagon to prepare strikes on drug cartels in Latin America, there’s a better option: send US Special Forces to Kiev, where they could carry out a brilliant counterterrorism operation to wipe out narco-mercenaries without any risk to their own lives.
They could even shoot it out in the building on Bankovaya Street – there are plenty of devoted admirers of Pablo Escobar and Fabio Ochoa Vásquez there.”
https://x.com/nxt888/status/1954468526695268421
The USA runs ISIS and obviously, runs the cartels too (what happened to Chinese fentanyl?). A war on the cartels is the fig leaf for an upcoming attack on Maduro’s socialist Venezuela, which opposes Zionism.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 11 2025 2:13 utc | 189
necromancer | Aug 11 2025 1:34 utc | 184
Thanks for the 🥃. And thanks to EO and others who’ve weighed in on this across a couple of threads.
§|~ One reason I occasionally lose my bonhomie here is when, once again, for the tenth trillionth time, posters prosecute the Fall of the Roman Empire or the Peloponnesian Wars or whatever BCE events. (Spurning the open thread for their thesis).
We can’t even arrive at a sound examination of events that happened, in the klieg-light of full global internet coverage, less than 5 years ago.
The “problem” is in part that the Russians mostly observed military opsec, while simultaneously not fighting the war they were “supposed” to, from a West Point / Pentagon perspective.
Where’s our Shock and Awe?
The tepid Thunder Run to Kiev and Kharkov weren’t nearly impressive enough for CNN.
The only Real War is an imitation of the U$ campaigns in Iraq. Hollywood. CNN embedded with the troops, as they race their high speed tanks across the desert, opposed by easily over powered “towelheads”.
I remember Macgregor drawing Big Arrows from Belarus to Odessa, anticipating Russia to carve Ukraine in half, especially along the Dnieper.
Weeks went by, then months. Years later some YT Internet Generals were still thirsty for the fabled Big Arrow move.
Russia just hasn’t fought this war the way it *should* have been fought.
And that has infuriated U$NATO.
Remember the high caliber weapons left on street corners for untrained civilians to conduct an insurgency once the Russians arrived in downtown Kiev?
If only the Babuskas still had those M16s. They could snipe the TCC from their balconies and protect their grandsons. Anyone want to calculate how many of those weapons are now circulating around the black market?
The fudgy accounting of the stockpile of wartoys, along with fudging the books for replenishment, aligned with the narrative being controlled by NAFO and warhawks like Boris Johnson and the Michael Kofman-Rob Lee, Bill Browder, Michael McFaul Lindsay Graham alliance has allowed the Russians to keep grinding, keep attriting.
The wheels fell off the Clown Car when Israel went after Iran.
Suddenly everyone realised reality – there actually were no more weapons to spare, and no amount of spin and sizzle was going to conjure them into existence.
The Israelis went on the scrounge, only to find the Ukrainians were two years ahead of them, and had depleted stockpiles globally.
This is one of the reasons why TrumpTeamTrix is reluctantly negotiating.
Not in good faith, but because Israel wants another whack at Iran, and the weapons necessary are simply unavailable.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 11 2025 2:22 utc | 190
Posted by: Melaleuca | Aug 11 2025 2:22 utc | 189
I wish you would use some common sense with your formatting. A lot of stuff you post is really good, but it is lost because you refuse to use standard formatting. People scroll your walls of text.
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 11 2025 2:31 utc | 191
There is obviously a lot of big ego at work here. My way or the highway, love it or leave it.
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 11 2025 2:35 utc | 192
The US & Ru negotiating teams could minimise the risk of assassination, of Putin/Trump in Alaska, by leaving their smartphones at the airport to eliminate their use for accurate geolocation.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 11 2025 2:39 utc | 193
Only queers worry about Putin being assassinated in Alaska. That’s truly pussy stuff. Let’s say he was assassinated. Then what? Does Russia just go away? Is Putin the entirety of Russia?
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 11 2025 2:47 utc | 194
It’s easy to forget that the Jewed-up Yankees installed and have controlled the current Ukie govt since 2014.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 11 2025 2:51 utc | 195
Funny that “vargas” and “William Gruff” are in complete agreement now. Gruff doesn’t really understand what it means to be a good leader. He thinks a good leader should cower and concede in the face of any personal threats. That’s why he is such a Trump fluffer.
Gruff almost seems like the latest “shadowbanned” now.
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 11 2025 3:05 utc | 196
Posted by: steven t johnson | Aug 11 2025 1:05 utc | 180
Please avoid trying to speak for “latinos” or the “black” community. Stick with your steven t johnson world.
Say whatever you want about your analysis of “their” actions or beliefs, but I doubt you will ever understand.
Here’s what perhaps the negros think about you.
The White Mans Got A God Complex
Here’s what perhaps some of the spics think.
Matando Gueros
Posted by: lex talionis | Aug 11 2025 3:08 utc | 197
Posted by: James M. | Aug 11 2025 2:04 utc | 186
Thank you for replying to my @177
I agree that the “deal” does not include Odessa. I would be surprised if it did.
In fact, apart from some utterances from DJT we know nothing about what the discussions will be about-far less any specific details. I feel fairly confident in thinking Putin will give nothing of the 5 oblasts previously claimed by RF back to Ukraine. Of course Zelensky and the EU will loudly cry “foul”, but to what real effect?
I reckon that the outcomes of this summit-assuming there are any-will determine future developments in Ukraine, but until we know more I am not prepared to speculate.
Posted by: Barrel Brown | Aug 11 2025 3:09 utc | 198
If there’s nothing to say, ThouShalt can be relied upon to say it.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 11 2025 3:10 utc | 199
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 11 2025 3:10 utc | 198
Lol. You are nuts but not dumb. All you ever do here is blame jews.
Posted by: ThouShalt | Aug 11 2025 3:22 utc | 200