Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 16, 2025
Summarizing The Summit

The summit between U.S. President Donald Trump and Russia's President Vladimir Putin was shorter than had been planned. But it was mostly successful.

Trump had urgently needed the meeting. He had pushed for a ceasefire in Ukraine. He had threatened to impose secondary sanctions against buyers of Russia's oil to press Russia towards that.

But Russia did not budge. Its interest is to eliminate the root cause of the war in Ukraine – the expansion of NATO towards Russia's borders. A ceasefire would only have paused the war but would not have solved the underlying issue.

For Trump the threat of secondary sanctions had become a trap. Some rather mild addition of tariffs against India had led to a strong backlash. India did not stop buying Russian oil but turned away from the U.S. to endorse Brics, Russia and China. Imposing secondary sanctions against China would have escalated into a trade war with China which the U.S. has no way to win.

The summit created a win for each side.

Trump acknowledged that a ceasefire was not possible and that the war needs to end with an all-encompassing peace agreement:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump – Aug 16, 2025, 8:46 UTC

A great and very successful day in Alaska! The meeting with President Vladimir Putin of Russia went very well, as did a late night phone call with President Zelenskyy of Ukraine, and various European Leaders, including the highly respected Secretary General of NATO. It was determined by all that the best way to end the horrific war between Russia and Ukraine is to go directly to a Peace Agreement, which would end the war, and not a mere Ceasefire Agreement, which often times do not hold up. President Zelenskyy will be coming to D.C., the Oval Office, on Monday afternoon. If all works out, we will then schedule a meeting with President Putin. Potentially, millions of people’s lives will be saved. Thank you for your attention to this matter!

After he had given Putin that part of the cake Trump took his own piece. 

In an interview (vid) with Foxnews after the summit Trump was asked about imposing sanctions. He responded: "Well, because the meeting went so well, we don’t have to think about that now.”

There will be no ceasefire to freeze the conflict and there will be no sanctions. Both sides can count that as wins.

The task of ending the conflict was tossed off to Zelensky and Europe:

Without hesitating, Trump said that his advice to Zelenskyy after Friday’s meeting with Putin would be "make a deal."

On Monday Zelenski will be told to give up and to make peace with Russia. European protests against that will be ignored.

Comments

BURNING QUESTION: to the Europeans at MoA
Please no Americans or other non-Europeans answer. This has been bugging me for a few months now, and I want the “European” psychological or psycho-economic take on NATO. Perhaps the answer would be different from the Western, Eastern, Nordic, and Baltic (I guess Turkish) perspectives.
So here goes: Given that we’re only less than a year into Trump’s presidency, and there are at least 3 to go (barring some sort of bad event or impeachment), and the seeming reality that Trump and his administration want to abandon the plans to expand NATO into Ukraine and likely “European” points beyond – and – that it looks like EU NATO members and the UK are talking about doubling down on propping up Ukraine and eventually granting whatever is left of the country NATO status, what the hell is the big draw to them?
Obviously NATO is a huge arms and “defense” services peddling racket.
> Is it the money? If so, which factions of European society benefit from this? Just how lucrative is it to the elites in Europe? Because as others have noted, turning away from cheap Russian energy and the rather large Russian market for EU goods and services, it sure as hell doesn’t benefit most average Europeans.
> Is it years of Russophobic fearmongering, largely emanating from the US but also the UK, Germany, France and the Baltics, having had great effect on the average European or PMC and bureaucrats among the population? Do they really think Russia poses some sort of military or existential threat to them, and are they blind to the fact that, no threat exists, but if it did, it would be due to constantly poking the bear?
> What are the peculiarities where it concerns the Baltics specifically?
> Has “Europe” (meaning the elites, higher ups in NATO, etc.) really thought this through for the mid-term and more so the long-term? If so, where can I find some genuine policy or strategy papers (not BS in the tabloid, mockingbird, EU media?)
> Is there some grander, proto-fascist philosophy or zeitgeist at work there? I know that the US has vassalized most of Europe since the end of WWII and the end of Cold War 1.0 with one goal of superseding the EU and bringing the EU economy under US control, but what of the “European” perspective? What gives insofar as NATO being a pan-European supranational “defense” pact?
> Do the Europeans make these decisions (or statements) about Ukraine and Russia with China in mind?
As a footnote, I understand that Trump and his faction of the US ruling elite are eyeing China and the “Indo-Pacific” (as were Obama and Biden’s factions) and this looks like the predicted pivot away from Europe, at least militarily now that, as noted, their economies have basically been demoted to the Atlantacists’ tribute providing subsidiaries – the neoliberals have mostly succeeded in implementing various levels of austerity and the privatization of previously public holdings – aka Americanized Europe.
So what the hell does “Europe” get out of NATO? And who’s really calling the shots in “Europe”?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 16 2025 21:11 utc | 201

As an addendum to my footnote at #201, I have heard and read Trump and his wing of the GOP for years saying the EU needs to pay “it’s fair share” of defense (meaning NATO, presumably) – but also he’s made many noises as to the US leaving NATO, or scaling back participation vis-a-vis “Europe” – so I guess that brings up a corollary question:
> Are the “Europeans” taking that seriously, and does it come into play with respect to my previous questions?
Note: I use the scare quotes around “Europe” simply to allow for some ambiguity. I know that not every European country or population is of exactly the same mind when it comes to NATO and Russia.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 16 2025 21:17 utc | 202

*** I hope you’re not expecting a conversation stemming from your posts.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 16 2025 20:42 utc | 188
I comment when I see an interesting pattern that I attempt to put into words and learn in the process. I have no other expectations.

Posted by: frithguild | Aug 16 2025 21:17 utc | 203

Russia needs peace for prosperity.
Posted by: c1ue | Aug 16 2025 19:01 utc | 157

The yankeeland has not this item. Never had. Never will have it. Except if it will be destroyed one way or the other.

Posted by: Naive | Aug 16 2025 21:20 utc | 204

A lasting and sustainable peace in Ukraine, requires certain ’non-negotiable’ conditions all of which were clearly stipulated last year by the Supreme Commander in Chief of the Russian Federation, Russian President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin (VVP).
These conditions for resolving the conflict, includes the withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from Donbass and Novorossiya, Kiev’s refusal to join NATO, the removal of all Western sanctions against Moscow, and the establishment of Ukraine’s non-aligned and nuclear-free status.
This year though, the acknowledgement of the root causes of this war [Outlaw US of A and NAFO’s war against the RUF] have taken precedent although neither of them — conditions — are mutually exclusive.

Posted by: pepe | Aug 16 2025 21:28 utc | 205

He cannot surrender parts of Donezk or Lugansk because he was called to help by these oblasts (then independent states) in February 2022.
Posted by: grunzt | Aug 16 2025 20:15 utc | 179

Another reason he can’t do that is DPR’s water supply. The residents of the city of Donetsk are currently getting water once in three days, for a few hours. To restore DPR’s water supply, Russia has to liberate the Severskiy Donets — Donbass Canal (click on the second map to see the route).

Posted by: S | Aug 16 2025 21:30 utc | 206

Amid all our amateur theorising and speculating I guess sometimes it is all too easy to overlook a constituency that still has a say:

When a predator becomes a victim: In Odessa, women fight off men from the TCC, and in Rivne they break through
1 In “free” Odessa, women again proved that they have no equal in a “fair fight”: they beat off another “volunteer” from the clutches of the “cannibals” from the TCC. Apparently, maternal rage is the only resource that will not run out in Ukraine.
2 And in Rivne, the “mobilization circus” did not go according to the script at all: the video of the failed “special operation” shows how a civilian not only dispersed all the employees of the TCC, but also chased after the escaped military commissar! Well, this is what a true “response” to a “call” looks like.

https://news-pravda.com/ukraine/2025/08/16/1604151.html
Two videos at the link.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 16 2025 21:30 utc | 207

To understand the genesis of US Imperialism, one needs to know European history going back to its font in West Asia as Hudson and a few others have examined… karlof1 | Aug 16 2025 20:46 utc | 191
History is a constantly flowing stream, with many tributaries and distributaries — a bland observation, I think. When in time and where on Earth we choose to plant a flag to say “This is where it all started” depends for each of us on personal will and relativity.
With regard to the genesis of “US Imperialism” — aka “the Outlaw US Empire” (a good one) or “Leviathan” (an old one) — I assess the inception at the Glorious Revolution of 1688, when mercantile shippers seized the tiller on the ship of state (via the persons of William and Mary).
History definitely took a turn for the worst in that glorious year, but other observers think humanity went astray long before. Evidence can be found to support the idea that the introduction of literacy was humanity’s first wrong turn.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Aug 16 2025 21:33 utc | 208

Thank you b for your summary:
“…There will be no ceasefire to freeze the conflict and there will be no sanctions. Both sides can count that as wins.
The task of ending the conflict was tossed off to Zelensky and Europe…”
Others have said that the characteristic of a well planned and well executed summit is that its structure and has been forordained by those participating. I believe the smiles and cordial exchanges by the participants, and even Lavrov’s unrelenting frown as he was briefly interviewed right at the beginning, sporting his signatory sweatshirt and vest to protect him against Alaska’s ‘frigid’ temperatures let us all know we were in for an historically unique occasion.’
If you weren’t watching mainstream media, as I wasn’t, the bits and pieces of the ‘cake’ b describes were and are slow in coming. That just makes it all the more enjoyable. Bravo, participants, and bravo Alaska! (I loved hearing about the preparation of the auditorium — well done, workers!)
And last but not least — well done, Lukashenko!

Posted by: juliania | Aug 16 2025 21:34 utc | 209

Woops, sorry … “its structure and scenario has been..”
Bad cursor; bad! Sit!

Posted by: juliania | Aug 16 2025 21:39 utc | 210

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 16 2025 21:11 utc | 201
It‘s very muddled; first of all we have a geographical concept of “Europe” as a continent in its own right, then again, these days it could well be described as a western peninsular sub-continent of greater Eurasia.
Then we have the European Union, an entirely artificial concept that has developed its own bureaucratic gravitational locus, with added democratic face-paint in the guise of the European Parliament, then there is the European Council being a murky affair, with no accountability, yet with positions occupied by shadowy US figures.
So, answers to your questions depend on which “Europe” you ask them of.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 16 2025 21:46 utc | 211

I’m glad the “summit” was mostly uneventful … just because the Deep State couldn’t figure out how to sabotage things, doesn’t mean the danger was not real. Some small progress was perhaps achieved; hopefully Trump has finally given up on the Kellogg plan. Possibly Putin was able to explain that Ukrainian casualties have been 10x the Russian casualties.
This is not about finishing the conflict … by now we all know how that’s going to end.
This is about figuring out who gets lumbered with the blame for the inevitable defeat when the last of the Ukrainian defence falls over. Making sure the media can’t do their TACO tricks and force Trump to pay for Biden’s war.
That little speech where Putin blames Biden for disrespecting him, and refusing to listen when they met in Feb 2022. That’s great material for Trump … and it cost the Russians very little to make such a statement.
From Jan 2022 … open letter to Biden before he met with Putin:

Russia perceives NATO expansion as a threat, stemming from the nature of NATO security guarantees and a longstanding Russian perception that Western leaders violated past assurances regarding NATO expansion. It is in the interests of the United States, the region, and the world to address these and other root causes of tension with Russia as part of an ongoing strategic dialogue. Such a dialogue does not necessarily preclude the use of other mechanisms to deter Russia aggression that are appropriately scaled, do not harm innocent civilians, and do not risk a disastrous escalation into war.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220108164539if_/https://quincyinst.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Jan8_Russia_Coalition_Letter.pdf

Posted by: Tel | Aug 16 2025 21:51 utc | 212

Link got scrambled … here if anyone wants it.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220108164539if_/https://quincyinst.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Jan8_Russia_Coalition_Letter.pdf
Dunno what happened above. 🤷

Posted by: Tel | Aug 16 2025 21:54 utc | 213

He cannot surrender parts of Donezk or Lugansk because he was called to help by these oblasts (then independent states) in February 2022.
Posted by: grunzt | Aug 16 2025 20:15 utc | 179
#######
Putin cannot “return” the new territory because he is constitutionally prohibited under Russian Law.
No Lasting Peace After Trump–Putin Meeting: Russian Constitution Article 67(2.1) Blocks Any Deal While Ukraine Holds “Russian” Territory

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 16 2025 21:57 utc | 214

@Eighthman #200
I would suggest that you are looking at this entirely from the wrong viewpoint.
It is not whether or not “can Russia endure the total sacrifice of Ukraine?”
The answer to that is “Hell yes”
Russia is not the one scraping the bottom of both manpower and arms barrels.
Russia is not the one with soaring debt and decaying infrastructure.
The actual question is:
Can the West continue to keep sacrificing arms and treasure to keep Ukraine fighting?
Without the US, the answer is obviously no.
The next question is:
Even if the US chose to keep supporting Ukraine, does Ukraine have the means to keep fighting?
The answer to that is also obviously no.
The strategy Russia is employing in Ukraine is not video war game or Twitter war or Blitzkrieg. Ukraine is not 1940 France. Russia is exhausting all of Ukraine’s resources, all of the West’s resources.
Once these resources are insufficient to keep up with the demands of ongoing war, can a collapse occur.
It is quite obvious that this point is within sight.
Now the question is whether the Ukrainians are going to pull a 1945 Berlin bunker or 1918 style armistice.
In the case of armistice – the terms won’t be remotely like the almost equality of 1918; the German army then knew it was losing and was going lose, but had yet to reach the point of rapid collapse.

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 16 2025 22:03 utc | 215

Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson are now formally part of Russia, so thats non-negotiable for the Russians. Donetsk and most of Zaporizhzhia may very well be liberated this year, the question is still Zaporizhzhia city and the west bank of Kherson. The coastal south of Ukraine is also ethnically Russian, and the “giving up” of that would be seen as a serious defeat, while also opening up that area to NATO; which will happen no matter what the terms of any peace agreement. Taking Odessa also links up with Transnistria and will help discipline the Moldovans. This is THE ABSOLUTE MINIMUM for the Russians.
Personally, I see the best option as everything east of the Dniepr plus the south. With the green light given to the Poles and Hungarians to take their pieces. For a long term peace, the Bandera nationalists need to be crushed for good and the Western Europeans put in their place. It may take another year or more, but it will be worth it for Russian security and peace in the region. Putin should keep up “jaw, jaw” while continuing the “war, war”.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Aug 16 2025 22:05 utc | 216

Guess what starts today (Aug 17th)?
That’s right, the 35th NATO Chess Championship (hosted in Poland).
As always, my links get eaten, put you can see it on Chess-Results.

Posted by: Call it what u will | Aug 16 2025 22:05 utc | 217

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Aug 16 2025 21:46 utc | 211
>>>
The EU is a CIA construct with multiple Zionists at the helmet.

Posted by: pepe | Aug 16 2025 22:11 utc | 218

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 16 2025 20:55 utc | 196
Posted by: Paco | Aug 16 2025 21:04 utc | 198

Here’s a detailed article on the closed nuclear fuel cycle (use your favorite machine translator):
Recycling in nuclear industry: from tailings to fast reactors (Naked Science, Darya Gubina, November 24, 2022 — in Russian)

Posted by: S | Aug 16 2025 22:13 utc | 219

Queation Time is the TV version, Any Questions the Radio 4 equivalent.
Both are execrable.
Posted by: ChatNPC | Aug 16 2025 19:58 utc | 173
Yes, you’re right, I got confused by the two programs. My significant other likes both but I can’t stand either program.
The audience applauded the point of how loathsome it was to afford Putin a forum while staying silent over Netanyahu’s genocide and his adulation when he and his rabid Likud members frequently visit the UK on invitation. There is never a mention of the UK’s assistance in the genocide and the public are too idle to look at anything other than the BS on tv or crap repeated on the radio.

Posted by: Vragtes | Aug 16 2025 22:23 utc | 220

Evidence can be found to support the idea that the introduction of literacy was humanity’s first wrong turn.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Aug 16 2025 21:33 utc | 208
Smells like teen misanthropy…
Focus on the socioeconomic phase of development we are in first: Capitalism. Very simple. Goes back about 500 years.
Humanity didn’t “go wrong” at any phase either. To reach a higher stage of social development human slavery was a necessary, barbaric evil in ancient times. From ancient slavery in southern Europe, slavery took different forms, each offering a bit more freedom and rationality, reaching the current point in time in which we are all wage slaves.
Today for once in human history humanity has the wealth, power and technology to eliminate the exploitation of man by man forever. The last stage of human prehistory. But that final developmental phase can only be brought about by the wage slaves themselves and only with the elimination of the oligarchical ruling class and it’s socioeconomic system of enforced inequality.
It’s not so difficult to find one’s location in history with materialist philosophy. The problem is organizing and educating the world’s wage slaves to carry out their historic act of liberation.
Just hating “humanity” and decrying it’s lack of morals only aids the last of the oppressors in sustaining themselves ideologically. Misanthropy is an Imperialist psyop.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 16 2025 22:41 utc | 221

reply to 215
OK, how many troops does Ukraine have? 800K ? So, with 20K running away and about 40K killed/incapacitated per month, maybe they have a bit over a year to go – unless they pull more people off the street. I don’t see that small arms supplies will ever stop being available. It’s very sad to read reports of women fighting off conscription kidnappers. This shows that rebellion is nearly impossible. The men who would do it aren’t there. This, in turn, means this war will go on painfully – and that will be expensive for Russia.
I don’t see Zelensky changing regardless of defeats. He is a dead man walking if the war ever stops. He must be removed at gunpoint, even elections may not get rid of him. This is weirdly similar to Netanyahu ! He also MUST have war to survive. It’s a perverted, sick situation.

Posted by: Eighthman | Aug 16 2025 22:57 utc | 222

Another slice of the cake, Alex Christoforou in the ocean 😉
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nn-v10DsMY

Posted by: juliania | Aug 16 2025 23:04 utc | 223

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Aug 16 2025 22:05 utc | 216
Totally agree, but I am not sure that the South is achievable, nor Zaporizhia city. The rest of Kherson probably is and all of of Donetsk.
Ideally of course there is Kharkov.
Now of course we should step back and think on what Putin originally wanted back in 2015. He then preferred the Donbass to be in Ukraine as it helped to keep the whole of Ukraine friendly. It turned out to be a poor decision, but it may still apply to Kharkov, Odessa etc.
I rarely reply to you directly but I want to say that your weekly update is fantastic. Took me a while to start reading it but now I am going through the back issues to help with something I am writing.

Posted by: watcher | Aug 16 2025 23:07 utc | 224

> Is there some grander, proto-fascist philosophy or zeitgeist at work there?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 16 2025 21:11 utc | 201

To make it short: YES.
This fascist ideology was thought by Nietzsche. The first european nationalist and fascist. He proposed the unity of the european country with the objective of the destruction of the Russian Empire.
This ideology was taken full heartedly by Hitler, and now by the leaders of the european empire. The ideology is based on the will to power and on the idea of superior men.
The society proposed by Nietzsche is as follow: at the top, the geniuses, then the superior men, then the warriors and at the bottom the livestock who will fill the needs of the other casts. The only aim of the society is to produce geniuses.
This ideology like Nietzsche is racist, colonialist, misogynist and so on.

Posted by: Naive | Aug 16 2025 23:14 utc | 225

Posted by: Tel | Aug 16 2025 21:51 utc | 212
yes of course the summit was a risk for Putin, but manageable.
Firstly it was so remote that it would be hard to find reliable patsies for any attack eg lone gunmen etc. Also Russian has many, many, many eyes in the sky it that spot.
Secondly set on a military base so essentially the only major attackers would need to be internal military, so if any action taken Russian severe response certain
Thirdly poisoning – I did not know it before but apparently Russian ALWAYS bring their own caterers – No foreign food or drink consumed
Four radiation – i imagine that some of the security forces had radiation detectors with them
Fifth air flight – the route taken explicitly avoided travel over foreign air space and you can be sure that Russian fighters were at the ready to deal with any incident in the very tiny no Russian space
Sixth disease – given how germophobic Trump is it is hard to see how this could be a risk, especially given the fact that the Russians ate or drank nothing.

Posted by: watcher | Aug 16 2025 23:19 utc | 226

@201 Tom
I just landed on your question/s so will throw down a rough answer for you. There is so much more detail but the wider view would be the following:
As far as public sentiment is concerned, northern europe is much more NATO and Atlanticist. In the south NATO is considered unwelcome by many, the US destructive , and less or no threat is felt regarding Russia. It varies by country and region of country, but broadly speaking.
At political level EU rules/sets direction for all other countries. I won’t go into how, except to say southern populations tended to look at northern europe and hence EU as modernisation and wealth compared to their previous reality. They looked on it also as escape from the history of national politics. All very full of illusion and deception, self imposed inferiority status. A sell out by their own leaders also.
EU is run by Germany and France primarily, which is NATO US Atlanticist, with France also playing the ‘European different’ part, at will.
EU as a construct is expansive and centralising, with the aim of relegating nation states. The expansion eastwards of NATO has gone hand in hand with EU inclusion of countries. Ukraine is no exception. Post cold war segregation hardly worked any more as of late, and Ukraine has greater ties to Rusiia, so for Ukraine there were coups, then effectively a civil war with Russia making the claims it has. Back to a projection of cold war attitudes hence to european public.
That is as far as NATO goes in all of that, as a necessary involvement/excuse for US and other aligned more ‘responsive’ countries to make their presence felt.
Why does EU go along ? It aims to incorporate Ukraine into EU, hence territorial expansion. The idea of “Russia” bad rallies a combined response, hence centralisation. Refugees deconstruct social fabric of european countries and are conduits for corruption.
The icing on the cake is US disagreement and ‘withdrawal’ . It is all a show in fact, that allows EU the pretext of creating an EU military to replace it (much of NATO) with. Money, centralisation, debt on member states, debilitation or change of command structure of national defenses, etc. Within a week or two, a trillion in hand. Not strictly NATO hence south mostly quiet on it.
Non NATO treaty re Ukraine might mean acceptable to Russia, ‘NATO status’ would be EU treaty , a new EU defense pact for example. For now they use NATO Ukraine as negotiating point, to pressure and allow US say.
Strategy papers !!! Lol.
This is all being done by deception, the european public are mostly clueless and fed the prop wanted via msm.

Posted by: Ornot | Aug 16 2025 23:20 utc | 227

He then preferred the Donbass to be in Ukraine as it helped to keep the whole of Ukraine friendly. It turned out to be a poor decision, but it may still apply to Kharkov, Odessa etc.
Posted by: watcher | Aug 16 2025 23:07 utc | 224

What do you know about the situation in 2014? Nothing. Who are you to judge a decision by Putin? Nobody.
You only pretend to be in the head of Putin, like more than one enemy of Russia.

Posted by: Naive | Aug 16 2025 23:20 utc | 228

@227 Ornot
The idea of “Russia” bad rallies a combined response
=> The idea of “Russia bad” rallies a combined response
Be kind to bears… in spite of their proximity.

Posted by: Ornot | Aug 16 2025 23:27 utc | 229

BBC reports
“Meanwhile, Putin reportedly presented Trump a peace offer that would require Ukraine to withdraw from the Donetsk region of the Donbas, in return for Russia freezing the front lines in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04rv2p3936o.amp
If this story is true then it looks like Dmitry Suslov interview with an Italian newspaper – Corriere della Sera a couple of days before the summit was bang on the money after all.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Aug 16 2025 23:42 utc | 230

Posted by: Naive | Aug 16 2025 23:14 utc | 225
##########
Great comment.
An ideology of superior (or chosen) men is usually created and needed by inferior men.
European colonizer culture is toxic and anti-human.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 16 2025 23:43 utc | 231

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 16 2025 21:11 utc | 201
Please no Americans or other non-Europeans answer. This has been bugging me for a few months now, and I want the “European” psychological or psycho-economic take on NATO.
Why has it been bugging you Tom ?
Do you have selective hearing ?
Brian Berletic has laid all out for you for years. You are just not listening.
That’s way too many ASSUMPTIONS regarding Trump. I suggest you look at his actions since 2016 and completely ignore his words.
Start to actually listen to Brian Berletic.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Aug 16 2025 23:50 utc | 232

@Posted by: watcher | Aug 16 2025 23:07 utc | 224
Zaporizhzhia and the south will have to wait for a lot more months of Ukrainian manpower losses to deplete their numbers and morale to the point of collapse. The Ukrainian army is also rapidly becoming one of forced conscripts with little motivation or training, with those with real experience and training and ideological motivation either dead, invalided out, or ground down by over three years of combat. With the US cutting off military and financial support, which Europe cannot fully replace, the Ukrainian state and the military weaponry (tanks, light armoured vehicles, artillery) will also rapidly deteriorate in capability; while the population becomes more and more restive. The Russians are also getting better and better at overcoming the Ukrainian drones, their last weapon of defence.
We are a lot closer to the end of the Ukrainians being able to mount a defence than we are from the beginning.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Aug 17 2025 0:06 utc | 233

” Given that we’re only less than a year into Trump’s presidency, and there are at least 3 to go (barring some sort of bad event or impeachment), and the seeming reality that Trump and his administration want to abandon the plans to expand NATO into Ukraine and likely “European” points beyond”
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 16 2025 21:11 utc | 201
Is complete fantasy Tom.There is absolutely no proof of that whatsoever.
Didn’t NATO run by the US just take the Armenian corridor?
Didn’t the US just bomb Iran and try to wipe out the Iranian leadership ?
I can see why you are confused as your starting point is all wrong. Name me one thing Trump has done since 2016 that didn’t involve trying to save his proxy in Ukraine ? Just one will do.
He’s continued to fund it .
Now he has got the Europeans funding it through the back door.
He’s increased NATO spending to 5% of GDP.
This “seeming reality ” of yours Tom doesn’t hold any water does it ? It’s fictional and not based on any facts. So I can see why you are confused Tom.
If the reports are true from the BBC and from Dmitry Suslov interview with an Italian newspaper – Corriere della Sera a couple of days before the summit.
That is Putin has offered a deal that Ukraine to withdraw from the Donetsk region of the Donbas, in return for Russia freezing the front lines in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson.
No wonder Trump was very interested. He’s just saved his US proxy from a massive defeat.
As Brian Berletic points out on a daily basis. The cardinal sin is getting confused by Trumps words instead of judging him by his actions.
Which has been to implement the – extending Russia rand corporation report and the Heritage Foundation project 25 report since January.
They have fooled everybody to believe the US and Europe are divided. Nothing could be further from the truth.
It is nothing more than a division of labour as the US is desperate to pivot towards China.
America will still be arming Ukraine regardless if the Europeans pay for it Tom. It is the oldest trick in the book.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Aug 17 2025 0:15 utc | 234

@ Ahenobarbus | Aug 16 2025 22:41 utc | 221
Thanx for a distinguished rap regarding inequality. Lately it occurs to me that the concept of human equality seems a tenuous thread in philosophical history. To my reading, Plato was the haughtiest jerk of all, separating people into all the different categories of quality, outlining the kingdom of a philosopher-king, of all things.
Who has written most decisively on inequality? As a self-styled radical, I delve for the furthest roots I can find. Mary Wollstonecratt’s Vindication of the Rights of Woman doesn’t argue that women are equal to men, only that women qualify as human beings. John Stuart Mill’s essay The Negro Problem posits that black folks will inevitably rise to more civilized standards, given a chance to thrive. Is Marx the one I’m looking for, for the most effective focus on expunging the cancer of human inequality?

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Aug 17 2025 0:18 utc | 235

Posted by: Naive | Aug 16 2025 23:20 utc | 228
Actually it is Putin who made that judgement call. He accepted that it was a mistake. He apparently dd not support the DNR resistance going into Mariupol back in 2014/15, which he agreed was a mistake.
FFS everyone makes bad calls, often out of bad luck rather than poor judgement. I think that given Ukrainian politics in 2014, there was every chance that a friendly, pro Russian could be returned, and for that you needed to keep Russian speakers in Ukraine. Putin was perhaps channeling Lenin who thought the same when he gave Ukraine the Donbass.
Unlike many here I do not assume that when something does not work out, that it was some sort of collusion or act of treachery etc. I do however think that Putin and even more so Lavrov, underestimated the degree of hatred/fear that Europe and the USA had of Russia. I suspect that Putin/Lavrov may have misread the UK and perhaps also the extent to which the younger generation in Germany and Scandinavia had absorbed the US ethos ie no longer the Russian friendly/tolerant socialists of the Willie Brandt era.
Putin understood Angela Merkel but could he (or anyone with an IQ above that of a chimpanzee or a parrot) actually accept that people like Bareback or Shultz were really as stupid as they really are. Also it may have gone under the radar, just how ingrained actual (ie real NAZIs) descendants of the German elite of the 20th century were in the social fabric of the new Germany. Putin who spent his young adult years in the 70s in Europe when social justice was all the fashion and the people of his generation actually cared about human rights, I suspect was caught unawares by just how fundamentally right wing and old establishment the new “green” generation really are. Definitely NOT watermelons but rather deeply conservative elitists/fascists wrapped in a green banana leaf.
Habeck for example is a descendant of a NAZI politician. At the end of the day a lot of it is about class and it would seem in Germany that the old elite have regained power, much as the Etonians did in the UK under Boris and predecessors.

Posted by: watcher | Aug 17 2025 0:28 utc | 236

“In Trump’s case, impeachment and murder are on the table, as we know.”
seer@18:04
Says who? Tom-Q-Collins posted a vid of fake assassination- Trump helper pushing photographers as flag is lowered. Normal reaction of a Trump assistant would be fight or flight ie run away or help protect Trump not cynically line up photographers to get the shot
If someone wanted to kill Trump he’d be dead. Trump might not be liked by liberal CIA types but he makes the extremely wealthy wealthier, they like that. So I suggest you provide evidence for your statement or keep quiet lest you be mistaken for a bot

Posted by: will moon | Aug 17 2025 0:38 utc | 237

“In Trump’s case, impeachment and murder are on the table, as we know.”
seer@18:04
Says who? Tom-Q-Collins posted a vid of fake assassination- Trump helper pushing photographers as flag is lowered. Normal reaction of a Trump assistant would be fight or flight ie run away or help protect Trump not cynically line up photographers to get the shot
If someone wanted to kill Trump he’d be dead. Trump might not be liked by liberal CIA types but he makes the extremely wealthy wealthier, they like that. So I suggest you provide evidence for your statement or keep quiet lest you be mistaken for a bot

Posted by: will moon | Aug 17 2025 0:38 utc | 238

This is just one step in the progression towards the multi-polar world. The west is eroding into an empire collapse. Everything moves east. BRICs & Co. now takes over. The UK & USA caused it themselves. They created the need for these other countries to band together, protect themselves, and create a large world economy that they can all trade and prosper in. There will be many “super powers”, not just the USA any longer bullying and forcing its desires. We need real leadership that includes all participants sharing and prospering together.

Posted by: alfwed | Aug 17 2025 0:40 utc | 239

Posted by: will moon | Aug 17 2025 0:38 utc | 238
.
.
Sorry, but you’re an uninformed zealot, and valueless.

Posted by: seer | Aug 17 2025 0:45 utc | 240

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Aug 17 2025 0:06 utc | 233
Again I agree. I was sort of thinking that Z will actually capitulate on Monday and agree to the Russian proposals. This will make it hard for Russia to get Zaporizhia city or Odessa. I think this is a pity but it may be unavoidable.
If Z does not agree, come next week then yes the fall of Ukraine will be swift and complete. Medvedev’s 8 now oblasts on the table – Kharkov, Dnipro, Sumy, Nikolayev, Odessa and ???

Posted by: watcher | Aug 17 2025 0:46 utc | 241

Posted by: watcher | Aug 17 2025 0:46 utc | 241
warshaw, warshaw is next

Posted by: Macpott | Aug 17 2025 0:49 utc | 242

Paco | Aug 16 2025 21:04 utc | 198–
Thanks very much, Paco. The Chukotka governor mentioned several new nuclear plants being built to power the big increase in mining operations there that I included in “The Summit and After”.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 17 2025 0:52 utc | 243

It is the oldest trick in the book.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Aug 17 2025 0:15 utc | 234
The details you drop now and then don’t matter to me, as much as your overall thrust is spot on. And getting better all the time Sun.
An analogy: Trump likes Putin, calls him his friend? He would say the same thing about Abbas … calling him a great leader of the Palestinian people, the day before before Trump would pack up 5 million of them at the point of a gun and deport them all to Greenland – if he could get away with it. Is that a good analogy to you? I think it is spot on about who Trump is as a person.
Meanwhile, my distaste for Putin grows and now only find Russia finding a new Stalin to lead them or it is doomed. At the Presser after a 3 minutes sucking up (giving them a Public Blow Job) to the US Trump over WW2 arms via Alaska flown to the USSR, he then spent 3 minutes talking about how grand it will be once they can Trade and do BUSINESSS again underneath a banner saying Pursuing Peace!…. the guy is a creep, and a fool.
Did Nelson Mandela get up on stage prostrating himself the great USA saying now South Africa is ready willing and able to to do Business with the USA again–after decades of the US backing in the white racists? No, he restored powerful bilateral relations with RUSSIA and India and CHINA instead.
Remember, Putin was conned by Poroshenko, Merkle and that French nobody President (plus UK/USA) over the Minsk accords, TWICE. After Anchorage I am convinced Putin is a low life self-serving idiot–Trump is the same. Scum of the earth.

Posted by: Lindsay | Aug 17 2025 1:04 utc | 244

I was surprised Putin offered to give up unconquered territories in kherson and zaporizhia for a peace deal. The capital of kherson ostensibly voted for reunification with Russia.
He must be counting on Zelensky rejecting it.
Also I’d like to note how unlikely it is Putin has plans to move to Odessa and connect Transnistria if he’s willing to keep to the east of the dnieper by sacrificing kherson.
If I was Zelensky I’d take it. It’s a genuine compromise.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 17 2025 1:04 utc | 245

A rather naive mistake after all this time to believe Western propaganda rags about details of anything President Putin said in private.

Posted by: boneless | Aug 17 2025 1:07 utc | 246

Is Marx the one I’m looking for, for the most effective focus on expunging the cancer of human inequality?
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Aug 17 2025 0:18 utc | 235
—————-
Xi is a strong Marxist and has been doing a very good job in China.
—————-
China’s socialist market economy is very different from capitalist market economy.
Its premise is socioeconomic well being and non exploitation.
They have strong anti poverty and anti corruption programs.
Imagine a government putting the medical, education, food and shelter needs of their population as high priority.
No wonder the western elites are against them.
Posted by: financial matters | Aug 3 2025 17:58 utc | 41

Posted by: financial matters | Aug 17 2025 1:14 utc | 247

The western msm is obviously useless but now and then even i can be shocked at the idiocy that is fed to the masses.
Listening to a msm radio news station …. talking about Alaska with Putin emphasising that the “root causes of the conflict” must be addressed. AS in Trump now saying well, a ceasefire won’t do, have to address the long-term peace agreements for stability etc …. that as the theme when they introduced another “geopolitical expert” who said words to the effect of :
“The root causes that Putin speaks of is that he / Russia do not considered Ukraine a legitimate nation and never have. Putin won’t stop until it is all taken over by Russia, iow that is what the root causes of whole Ukraine thing was always about. ”
Can people be this dumb – be this incompetent, this dishonest and/or this manipulative? Of yeah, you betcha. It’s why everywhere is so stuffed now, especially the US and Europe UK …. because there is no solution to this short of world war–and the USA NATO is completely Neutered Militarily and Economically — and people like PUTIN are removed from Power in Russia because he is no better than Trump or Biden or Merkle or Macron or Zelensky.

Posted by: Lindsay | Aug 17 2025 1:15 utc | 248

Aleph_Null | Aug 16 2025 21:33 utc | 208–
Thanks for your reply. There were some very ugly people in England prior to 1688 whose horrid doings were paved over and their beings touted. The one I favor pointing to is Francis Bacon who wrote a tract called An Advertisement Touching on Holy War that Netanyahu would find favorable (See The Many Headed Hydra p40.) Linebaugh’s book reveals a great many things few know yet are very important for how the Elite Western mind has developed over the centuries and understanding its temperament today.
//////////////////////
S | Aug 16 2025 22:13 utc | 219–
As usual, a great deal of thanks for your contributions.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 17 2025 1:16 utc | 249

Neofeudalfuture | Aug 17 2025 1:04 utc | 245–
Why do you lie so brazenly?

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 17 2025 1:19 utc | 250

Canadian ‘Coalition of the Willing’ member PM Goldman-Sachs, demonstrates how to suck and blow simultaneously…
Carney Says Trump is ‘Creating the Opportunity’ To End the War in Ukraine
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/carney-says-trump-is-creating-the-opportunity-to-end-war-in-ukraine/
“Prime Minister Mark Carney says the leadership of US President Donald Trump is ‘creating the opportunity to end Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine.’
In a statement released Saturday, the day after Trump met with President Vladimir Putin in Alaska, Carney praised the US administration’s efforts to end the war.
‘Robust and credible security guarantees are essential to any just and lasting peace. I welcome the openness of the United States to providing security guarantees as part of the Coalition of the Willing’s efforts,’ Carney said in a statement.
‘Canada is coordinating closely with President Zelensky and our partners in the Coalition of the Willing to intensify our steadfast support for Ukraine and our shared commitment to its peace and security.’
The prime minister said on social media that Canada’s partners insist that Ukrainians decide their own future with diplomatic efforts reinforced by military and economic pressure on Russia.”

Posted by: JohnGilberts | Aug 17 2025 1:20 utc | 251

He must be counting on Zelensky rejecting it.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 17 2025 1:04 utc | 245
Yes that has been the pattern right from the beginning. Russia propose peace Ukraine reject it causing further Russian advance and Ukraine destruction. No reason to think the cycle won’t repeat this time also till utter destruction of Ukraine.

Posted by: Michael J | Aug 17 2025 1:27 utc | 252

Posted by: stranger | Aug 16 2025 14:20 utc | 22
Wow, tgat writer Wes Mitchell is exactly the kind of analyst whose opinions will bring America to its doom.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Aug 17 2025 1:30 utc | 253

There are many reasons not to like Trump, far too many to list here, and some are tragic like his apparent support of Israeli Zionists, and use of the National Guard against his own people.
But if he has been party to a significant rapprochement between Russia, Putin, the Kremlin vis a vis the US and its current administration, to the chagrin of the EuroNATO imperialists and the murderous US neocons, then he deserves significant credit for this meeting and having the courage to resist the motivations of the US Deep State. So does Putin. We may well ask: what happens when two leaders from different countries that are apparent enemies, could actually have good chemistry between them?
Only time will tell us more of where Trump really stands, and the extent of the backlash, but to me it appears that a something has shifted and we may be witnessing a watershed moment.

Posted by: George | Aug 17 2025 1:30 utc | 254

Don’t crucify anyone today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8maBsuhHr4&list=RDPBxuq_eWW94&index=4

Posted by: Siddhartha | Aug 17 2025 1:34 utc | 255

Alaska summit summary. US likely to sit out the next Russia vs Europe round while benefitting from arms sale

Posted by: Michael J | Aug 17 2025 1:54 utc | 256

Is Marx the one I’m looking for, for the most effective focus on expunging the cancer of human inequality?
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Aug 17 2025 0:18 utc | 235
I’m sure you know how I’d respond. Lenin and Trotsky are pretty good too.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 17 2025 1:57 utc | 257

Look I think we all have to see the bigger picture.
Russia possibly does need peace more than we realise. I am worried about the implications of this Azerbaijani move. It is much more serious than most seem to realise.
If I were Putin I would be conserving my forces, not just for a war with Europe but one with Turkey/Azerbaijan/Armenia/Israel, with Iran the main target but Russia a secondary one. If the war is actually with Turkey, you might find that even hostile Ukrainians may choose to ally again with Russia. After all the Turkish slavery on Ukraine is not quite forgotten and is practically in the era we term “modern history”.

Posted by: watcher | Aug 17 2025 1:57 utc | 258

A rather naive mistake after all this time to believe Western propaganda rags about details of anything President Putin said in private.
Posted by: boneless | Aug 17 2025 1:07 utc | 246
________
But isn’t it wonderful when trolls out themselves so brazenly in this way?

Posted by: malenkov | Aug 17 2025 2:00 utc | 259

From The Cradle

“I think the meeting was a 10,” Trump said in an interview on Fox News after the summit concluded.
“In the sense, we got along great, and it’s good when two big powers get along, especially when they’re nuclear powers. We’re No. 1 and they’re No. 2 in the world.”
Trump wrote on Truth Social early on Saturday that “it was determined by all that the best way to end the horrific war between Russia and Ukraine is to go directly to a Peace Agreement, which would end the war, and not a mere Ceasefire Agreement, which often times do not hold up.”
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and European leaders say a ceasefire is needed before negotiations for a broader peace deal should begin.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 17 2025 2:07 utc | 260

Note also that both Trump and Witcoff are real estate developers, and most of their business associates are also real estate developers. Imagine how much real estate development will be occurring in Russia over the next few decades.
. . .
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Aug 16 2025 16:00 utc | 79
==========
A variation on my own thought, namely:
Trump is a real estate guy, and big infrastructure projects such as rare earth refineries, oil refineries and pipelines, etc. involve a lot of real estate.

Posted by: Jane | Aug 17 2025 2:10 utc | 261

Xi is a strong Marxist and has been doing a very good job in China.
—————-
China’s socialist market economy is very different from capitalist market economy.
Its premise is socioeconomic well being and non exploitation.
They have strong anti poverty and anti corruption programs.
Imagine a government putting the medical, education, food and shelter needs of their population as high priority.
No wonder the western elites are against them.
Posted by: financial matters | Aug 3 2025 17:58 utc | 41
Posted by: financial matters | Aug 17 2025 1:14 utc | 247
Wrong. China is a reformist Capitalist country, the most stable economic model in history, actually.
Their efforts to defang Capital is noble but ultimately doomed. Nonetheless, I sincerely hope they defeat US Imperialism and inherit the world as they are more rational.
China does not represent the extent of human socioeconomic potential, nor does it offer an end to mans exploitation of man. China is without question Marxist in name only.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 17 2025 2:11 utc | 262

Posted by: watcher | Aug 17 2025 1:57 utc | 258
Erdogan highly ambitious to blow it up all in a war with Russia. Also feel China will manage him as Turkey becomes important in the belt road as Ukraine unstable.

Posted by: Michael J | Aug 17 2025 2:12 utc | 263

“Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and European leaders say a ceasefire is needed before negotiations for a broader peace deal should begin”.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 17 2025 2:07 utc | 260
They are hardly in any position to negotiate anything. It’s going to be just more fanciful blabbering of words to save face as they have done for months even years now. The real enemies here have always been the US verses Russia. The others will just have to suck it up and pay the price for having been so credulous.

Posted by: George | Aug 17 2025 2:17 utc | 264

They are hardly in any position to negotiate anything.
Posted by: George | Aug 17 2025 2:17 utc | 264
######
Reality is coming for the USA.
They will cry like babies when it arrives.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 17 2025 2:23 utc | 265

Posted by: financial matters | Aug 17 2025 1:14 utc | 247
I agree.
It’s also why they hate and wanted to destroy Huawei, because of its successful corporate model that actually shares profits with its workers, far more equally than Western neofeudal capitalists could ever cope with. Can’t have that.

Posted by: George | Aug 17 2025 2:24 utc | 266

Posted by: c1ue | Aug 16 2025 17:39 utc | 114
==========
Your account seems to start in 2014.
My account starts at least a decade earlier.

Posted by: Jane | Aug 17 2025 2:26 utc | 267

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 17 2025 2:23 utc | 265
Agreed

Posted by: George | Aug 17 2025 2:26 utc | 268

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 16 2025 21:11 utc
From Ireland long long ago.
Simple answer – it’s just common or garden racism.
To be sure the AngloSaxons wish to plunder other peoples countries but their deeply held belief in their genetic superiority, shared by the chosen tribe, is the enabler.

Posted by: necromancer | Aug 17 2025 2:26 utc | 269

@250 karlof
Re: lies
Whats the lie? I’ve read everything I could get my eyes on to see what the deal was.
Is there an official document you’ve read?

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Aug 17 2025 2:28 utc | 270

PS
Re”These early sanctions were not trying to destroy Russia/break up Russia – they were intended to force Russia to not oppose said NATO/EU expansion.”
I said the EU fucked with Russia.
I didn’t say they were trying to destroy or break up Russia.
What I wrote about was Brussels’s attempt to control Russia’s gas business in Europe.
What do you mean with “these early sanctions.”

Posted by: Jane | Aug 17 2025 2:33 utc | 271

seer@2:45
I’m coming for you mate.

Posted by: will moon | Aug 17 2025 2:37 utc | 272

This is all a facade.
Neither Trump nor Putin have the power to stop either the US Imperial need to destroy Russia (and then China) or Russia’s existential need for a buffer against NATO.
No ‘success’ was achieved that matters in any sense of the word on either side.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 17 2025 2:38 utc | 273

So what the hell does “Europe” get out of NATO? And who’s really calling the shots in “Europe”?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 16 2025 21:11 utc | 201
==================
European elites need the war to continue and eventually they need, or hope, or plan, to loot Russia because without such an influx of assets their economies will collapse and they will lose power.
IOW to retain power.

Posted by: Jane | Aug 17 2025 2:40 utc | 274

Posted by: necromancer | Aug 17 2025 2:26 utc | 269
“their deeply held belief in their genetic superiority, shared by the chosen tribe, is the enabler.”
I agree that this statement is true, but they fool themselves about genetic superiority. Even the term Anglo-Saxon is a misnomer:
https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/mesolithic-skeleton-known-as-cheddar-man-shares-the-same-dna-with-english-teacher-of-history
The other point I would make is that most of the common British people had no say in imperialism or colonialism since they were fed lies back home about what was happening in the colonies by the ruling classes who were actually the ones that made the fortunes out of the colonialist exploitation. The same people that exploited the average working class Brit as well. Even when slavery was abolished it continued in the households of the upper classes.
When the sugar plantation owners in the Caribbean were forced to stop using slaves, it was they that were compensated for the impact, not the slaves. The British government had to borrow money from a wealthy elite Lord to pay them back is was so much money. It took about 150 years for the average British taxpayer to pay back this sum of repatriation money. Yet because of slavery it was said that a sugar plantation owner could pay off the cost of his land and all equipment in one year due to the use of slavery, after that it was pretty much pure profit. Sweet!

Posted by: George | Aug 17 2025 2:50 utc | 275

Posted by: necromancer | Aug 17 2025 2:26 utc | 269
https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/mesolithic-skeleton-known-as-cheddar-man-shares-the-same-dna-with-english-teacher-of-history

Posted by: George | Aug 17 2025 2:53 utc | 276

Absolutely amazed that Ukraine was discussed.
Thought it would be nuclear treaty or Arctic exploration theatre .
But now VVP looks like a peacenik to the global south.
And since Zelensky cannot make peace, Odessa is in the bag.

Posted by: necromancer | Aug 17 2025 3:10 utc | 277

@ Ahenobarbus | Aug 17 2025 2:11 utc | 262 who wrote

China is without question Marxist in name only.

The sovereign country of China has a PBOC that operates finance as a public utility in contrast to the West where finance is privately owned and operated for profit and control.
Marxism is another ism like socialism and capitalism. None of them exist in reality like the levers of finance noted above but China has a mix of all of them that seems to work for the masses instead of an inherited elite.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 17 2025 3:25 utc | 278

RE: “No ‘success’ was achieved that matters in any sense of the word on either side.”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 17 2025 2:38 utc | 273
Agreed.
Though loving watching the “Europeans/Zelensky” spin.
It was the EU 6 Billion seed money spent by that European Victoria Nuland, Samantha Powers Hillary Clinton et el all these “Europeans” that wanted this proxy war on their soil.
The U.S./UK/Israeli … none of which are in the EU Union, destroyed them all via the “Russia” move…
Some EU lackeys had gold, greed & lust to jump on “let’s divide up Russia” ideas…
How soon the “origins” are forgotten as there is money to be made.
Russia goes along with it… cuz… why not?
But now, sure… they’re blocking “peace”…
Anyways… yeah, this goes nowhere… except in the end…nuclear.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 3:28 utc | 279

Honestly, I think the non headlines are a sign of maturity and a good sign. No quick wins or PR victory means that the US finally acknowledges that there needs to be constructive collaboration for long term peace, hopefully with some profit in Russia US collaboration. Certainly much of the deep state is still Russophobic but this shows there’s a critical mass that sees that path doesn’t have a good ending.
The details are of course still waiting to be resolved.

Posted by: Matthew | Aug 17 2025 3:56 utc | 280

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Aug 16 2025 23:50 utc | 232
You’re a sock, I can tell.
Jane – I do apologize for the tone and tenor of our exchange the other night and I appreciate your contributions. I don’t think you’re a Trump cultist – and I hope that is apparent, as well as that I am so far gone in terms of US politics and the fake game we’re all encouraged to play that I don’t see Trump as anything other than mask-off US imperialism at home and abroad.
That said, yeah I do hate the guy… just as I hated or despised Reagan, Bush I and II, Clinton, Obama and Biden. At the end of the day none of these people are any different, and my main beef is with Trump (or Obama – or Biden – or Clinton) loyalists pushing worthless pixels on all of us trying to have rational conversations about politics, parapolitics and geopolitics – knowing it all comes down to DA BENJAMINS, BABY.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 17 2025 4:19 utc | 281

Tom_Q_Collins
Tom, Europe is governed by NATO. The EU and national governments take their marching orders from NATO. You might recall Trump demanding increased military spending 2% to 5%. It has happened with no dissent from the political and media establishments of Europe. These establishments agree that closing hospitals and schools is necessary so cash can be routed to the MIC shareholders If one disagrees with this increase one doesn’t get to be a political representative.
A soft left politician, Jeremy Corbyn was threatened by CIA director M Pompeo who flew into the country to give a speech where he said something along the lines that Corbyn would “have to run the gauntlet” if he wanted to become Prime Minister of the country. What followed was a media campaign of incredible depth and breadth to destabilise and discredit Corbyn’s efforts
The entire media started calling him a vicious jew hater because he had expressed recognition that Palestinians were human beings – the entire UK media. The guy lived in a four bedroom semidetached house, didn’t have a car, used a bicycle to get to work. Every morning when he left his house, he and his family had to face a large pack of tabloid journalists who would shout vile accusations at them. This “running the gauntlet”continued for a year or so until Corbyn was narrowly defeated in an election in 2019 and resigned as the leader of the Labour party
The sad fact was Corbyn had spent his political career fighting racism – against anyone and was active in the fight against jew hatred in Britain. Some of the voices that screamed “jew hater” at Corbyn were Jewish politicians who previously had benefitted from Corbyn and his supporters presence on public demonstrations in their areas when fascists and racists were marching
Anecdotally, before I became sick and physically incapable of work, I was a self-employed gardener. I got some work in 2010 from a guy who was a somewhat important military contractor (ie a mercenary) working in the bureaucracy set up to pacify Iraq. One day he casually stated that the governments of Europe had been abolished and the whole continent was run from a huge military base in Cyprus by NATO. He claimed that the political activity in the countries of Europe and the EU that one could see was just a pretence. I didn’t believe it then but I do today
The intelligence groups led by the CIA, Mossad and Brit Military Intelligence enforce NATO’s diktat here.

Posted by: will moon | Aug 17 2025 4:33 utc | 282

Posted by: will moon | Aug 17 2025 4:33 utc | 281
Wow. Thanks so much for that deeply personal and anecdotal dispatch. This is, while not exactly, but also exactly, the kind of honest conversation I’d love to see happen more frequently here. Yea, we’re not answering all of western civilization’s questions or proposing workable answers, but we are sharing the truth of our own experience.
It disgusts me what Corbyn was set up for. How can anyone NOT develop a disdain or actual hatred of Zionist Jews for this usurpation of our admittedly fake democracies?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 17 2025 4:42 utc | 283

Richard Medhurst
@richimedhurst
Western powers whine about how Putin should have no say in Ukraine’s NATO membership, but want to dictate to Lebanon what its security arrangements should be and who should or shouldn’t disarm.
https://x.com/richimedhurst/status/1956856162449760356

Posted by: Menz | Aug 17 2025 4:46 utc | 284

Posted by: Trubind1 | Aug 17 2025 3:28 utc | 278
RE: “No ‘success’ was achieved that matters in any sense of the word on either side.”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Aug 17 2025 2:38 utc | 273
Agreed.
Though loving watching the “Europeans/Zelensky” spin.
I also enjoy the spectacle of the EU etc. tearing out their hair as they ferment an adequate reply to the outcome of the Pow-wow in Alaska.
Given the general situation on the ground and the current European (particularly the UK/Germany/France) mindset, I think it is only a matter of time-probably not much-till the EU/NATO etc decide that they will have to intervene in Ukraine overtly with their own forces. However, they are not prepared to take that step without (wisely) being assured of back up from the US-particularly the USAF. [On this I am not in agreement with b-see main article end].
When Zeelinski visits Washington next week I reckon achieving that goal will be the primary aim of the exercise-after he has rejected the Putin offer re Donetsk and Lehansk oblasts which will be apparently conveyed to him by DJT.
However this interaction goes, the outcomes will be very far reaching for Ukraine, Europe and NATO and the RF, but not so much the USA-at least in the immediate future.

Posted by: Barrel Brown | Aug 17 2025 5:00 utc | 285

Sorry for OT
Aleph Null “Evidence can be found to support the idea that the introduction of literacy was humanity’s first wrong turn.” I came to the same conclusion. And this indeed was a turn that meant women should be locked at home because the scribes needed to have a perfect standing in order to get higher at the court. Women could not be scribes because of some basic physiological realities such as pregnancy and breast-feedings. Literacy and the rise of a scribal culture excluded them from society. You can even see that historically, wherever the Bible was translated, societies moved to a state were women are not getting under represented.

Posted by: Tom | Aug 17 2025 5:12 utc | 286

As addendum to my previous post @284, I see that Z-man will apparently be in the company of a coterie of European leaders-. That is probably a wise move on their part, but not sure whether DJT will be impressed.
https://www.rt.com/news/623092-nyt-trump-invites-european-leaders-zelensky-washington/

Posted by: Barrel Brown | Aug 17 2025 5:18 utc | 287

It disgusts me what Corbyn was set up for. How can anyone NOT develop a disdain or actual hatred of Zionist Jews for this usurpation of our admittedly fake democracies?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 17 2025 4:42 utc | 282
Jewish influence in the West has depended on multiple avenues, none so much as the mass media. A major source of that media is located in the UK, and it was turned with ferocity on Jeremy Corbyn. Keir Starmer benefitted hugely from it, which is how he can proscribe Palestine Action and arrest hundreds of elderly protestors.
And yet that influence is no longer sufficient. Millions of Britons formerly aligned with Labour are absolutely disgusted with Starmer despite supposedly being on the same side. Starmer actually got fewer votes than Corbyn, and only won because the Tories haven’t finished cracking up yet. Russell Brand, GBNews, Owen Jones- there is a broad appetite being filled for actual dissent in the UK, and controlling the corporate media is fueling independent content without actually making the media popular.
You should really visit the UK yourself. It’s quite a different atmosphere among normal people than you saw in the Blair era, to be sure.

Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Aug 17 2025 5:19 utc | 288

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Aug 16 2025 21:11 utc | 201
In addition to the regional variations in attitudes described by Ornot, there are generational variations.
Any Western European born before 1970 was hesvily indoctrinated that the lovable super cool Americans liberated us from those sinister types like adolf and then those same lovable Americans protected us from nasty Stalin. Among the general population of this generation, these feelings translate into positive attitudes regarding NATO-EU.
On the other hand, those born say after 1985, are surprisingly EU skeptic and ditto for NATO.
This divide might be a function of media consumption. The older generation still reads regimist newspapers and watches TV news. The younger generation gets its information from independent meda platforms.
Soooo, Tom when analyzing sentiment among Europeans its important to consider regional and generational variations.

Posted by: Exile | Aug 17 2025 6:13 utc | 289

Posted by: Tom | Aug 17 2025 5:12 utc | 285
#######
That’s a very Western thing.
In Islam, women could own property and seek education/literacy 1,500 years ago.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Aug 17 2025 6:21 utc | 290

Is Marx the one I’m looking for, for the most effective focus on expunging the cancer of human inequality?
Aleph_Null | Aug 17 2025 0:18 utc | 235

In western philosophy, the problem at its core is tied to the metaphysics of substance. By logic, equality is not a feature of one thing, but a relation between two. So how does it compute? Again logic answers that if A=B and B=C then A=C, making ‘=’ a transitive relation as they say. What does it mean that all men are equal? Now you have to find a measure, and because the metaphyics of substance does not begin with man’s internal deliberations in his stream of consciousness, but with an eternal and unchanging creator-god (which acts like a limit at both ends of infinity, making the stretch of time a closed intervall often called unum), we are measured against this conception. This even holds true after god is removed from the scene through Nietzsche’s vile act, because the mindset carries on unmodified without Him to become modern-day materialism. Neuroscientists now try to measure us against our brains and matter in general, even at the price of having to declare consciousness a baseless illusion.
This also drives focus away from the presence of others. If however one rests the transitive quality on the spiritual essence of man, which is personhood (while personhood at its core has soul), then the tendency to objectify others is addressed at its root.
As a remark, equality is a sensible concept in the analysis of institutions, especially legal ones. Here equality would mean equal treatment in front of the law. But note this is not a case of equality in essence of man, but a transitive relation in respective dealings of said court.
Fun fact for Aleph: this last thought above is actually gained from the ‘Protocols’ as they report successful meddling with people mind’s during the French revolution.

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 17 2025 6:24 utc | 291

Mark2 closed out the previous thread with “Putin’s holding the Trump card”. Bravo!
So, what did Putin slip to Trump in the Limousine away from prying eyes and hidden cameras/microphones.
a) Secret instructions
b) Order of Lenin
c) flash drive from Medvedev with hidden camera footages from Epstein Island.
/s
Haven’t had time to read all the comments so far, maybe later.

Posted by: Suresh | Aug 17 2025 6:26 utc | 292

Here is my short summary and analysis of the Trump-Putin meeting: https://geopolitiq.substack.com/p/the-putin-trump-meeting-in-alaska?r=25fc37
My article includes also highlights from Al Mayadeen’s interview with Ali Larijani and from the latest speech of Hezbollah Secretary-General Sheikh Naim Qassem, both worth a read, as a civil war may erupt in Lebanon by the end of this year or beginning of next.

Posted by: Ismaele | Aug 17 2025 6:33 utc | 293

@will moon | Sun, 17 Aug 2025 04:33:00 GMT | 281

Tom, Europe is governed by NATO.

That’s a neat observation. During Covid it was actual military dictat, as a politician from the Netherlands has publicly stated a while ago.

Posted by: persiflo | Aug 17 2025 6:43 utc | 294

Unlimited Hangouts incoming. I/2
More presstitute whores in meltdown about the RF Win-Win option to 47 – their tiny little minion minds have no shame.
The funniest is that the real VVP wasn’t there! It was his look alike – because a camera angle when he said something made him look like having a double chin – or send such thing!
Now – let’s just ‘assume’ that is true – what is the logical take on it?
Why would a fake vvp go to Alaska to meet the defeated US representatives?
What did he say or do to The Donald as they sat together privately? (If such a moment happened)
Would what transpired and was said in the press conference be therefore not the official RF position?
A quick take on each one :
Say the fake one was assassinated or had an accident en route – would the ‘real slim shady’ suddenly appear in Red Square? On TeeVee? In Beijing? On any public platform?
Jigging and laughing that they didn’t get him! He sent a double instead?
That would be an instant FAIL – showing him to be some crazed gangsta type with delusions of relevance after such a subterfuge upon the worlds watching eyes wouldn’t it?
How could any take such a person seriously? How would we then know that that person was the ‘real’ VVP?
It is surely some kind of projection by the Wasters – there were many instances of Biden having a ‘double’ or someone with a latex head that didn’t fit iirc.
Was he a Russian secret agent sent to kill DJT, or brief him directly, since many believe Don to be a secret Russian agent!Or as one mad killer cia head dingbat and Obama shotgun Brennan claimed that The Beast must be swept for a microchip that VVP planted…The spies and their ‘Q’s’ secret agent gizmos!
More projection- every accusation is an admission isn’t it?
The last is the HasbaRat/DS/troll media whores standard playbook fare. Suggesting that if it was a fake vvp giving that press conference statement and making the invite to Moscow in English (which of course the real vvp speaks as well as German and maybe by now even Chinese!)
So the message of what was said can be ignored because it was a fake poootin?
Tha is the clearest projection of Wasters – an Ad hominem – ignore the message and attack the messenger.
So what if he was a double? Do the words he was sent to say suddenly become wasted?

Posted by: DunGroanin | Aug 17 2025 6:50 utc | 295

Fun fact for Aleph: this last thought above is actually gained from the ‘Protocols’ as they report successful meddling with people mind’s during the French revolution.
Posted by: persiflo | Aug 17 2025 6:24 utc | 291
Tin foil hat award for you!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 17 2025 6:58 utc | 296

Rhetorical question: Are you Dima?
Posted by: NoName | Aug 16 2025 20:24 utc | 184
No but I deeply respect him. I imagine being him and how hard that would be. Besides, he is lrobanly in constant danger due to his pro Russian attitude.
About humanity. The invention of
agricukture was the first wrong turn in human history. The agriculture destroyed our freedom. Now wevare slaves if technolofy and we destroyed our planet.
I hope our consumer civilization would soon end and those who would survive woukd live like in stone age.

Posted by: vargas | Aug 17 2025 6:58 utc | 297

@call me Mr. 3
Quote “territorial integrity of the Ukraine, and President VVP would be eager for a chance to punish the various globalist governments who started this war.”
First bomb needs to fall on England the real plotter of war and destabilisation of rest of the world. Pirates must be punished to extreme.

Posted by: Sam | Aug 17 2025 7:01 utc | 298

@ Ahenobarbus | Aug 17 2025 2:11 utc | 262 who wrote

China is without question Marxist in name only.

The sovereign country of China has a PBOC that operates finance as a public utility in contrast to the West where finance is privately owned and operated for profit and control.
Marxism is another ism like socialism and capitalism. None of them exist in reality like the levers of finance noted above but China has a mix of all of them that seems to work for the masses instead of an inherited elite.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 17 2025 3:25 utc | 278
Surplus value is extracted, brutally, from the Chinese worker as it is from the American, perhaps more brutally, but with less cultural harassment. Alongside that China’s ruling class (it has one!) seeks to ameliorate their suffering via social support not unlike that of the Roosevelt administration.
The reformist state has control of finance, so yes, it’s much better than America. I’m rooting for it, but it’s Capitalism, not Marxism, as in Russia too.
Capitalism is not an epithet, it’s a socioeconomic system that can be confirmed scientifically.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Aug 17 2025 7:04 utc | 299

Unlimited Hangouts 2/2
The DS factions are in a bit of a tizzy – they are even turning upon themselves and preparing ‘limited hang outs’ for the last few months – even the arch villain Killary and banker kill Carney suddenly saying djt is The Don!
The ziofascists kingmakers fall guys are … (opens envelope)
Obama and Brennon !
it seems are heading under the bus.
Johnny St.Pete
@JohnMcCloy
Jul 9
🔥🔥MUST WATCH. John Kiriakou tells a story he NEVER TOLD PUBLICLY.. “THE FASCINATING JOURNEY OF JOHN BRENNAN’S ASCENSION TO HEAD OF CIA”
@JohnKiriakou says, “When I got hired Brennan was a DS-14 nobody. Deputy Director of the Arab/Israeli analysis group. He worked for a women Martha Kessler who was a great mind on Syria & they did not get along and
he was imposed on her. He went to her asked her for a promotion & wanted her blessing”
She said, “Not only are you not ready for the Senior Service but you are FIRED.”
John explains that ” In the CIA when you are fired you are not really fired. You have 6 weeks to walk the halls and find a job. If you cant they escort you out and take your badge.”
John states, “This happened around XMAS & there was no jobs at Xmas. Finally he goes to the (PBD STAFF) President’s Daily Brief Staff and they have an opening for a low level staffer. The Director of Intelligence Programs who happens to be George Tenet.Brennan & Tenet hit it off..Alpha Dog/Hard Drinkers…Tenet gets promoted to be Deputy Director of the CIA. He takes Brennan with him & names him Martha’s Boss. Brennan calls her in and fires her. He is made station chief of Riyadh which is one of the most important countries in the world.”
He comes back as the #3 ranking official in the CIA. He discusses how a lot of factions went to the McCain campaign, some went to Clinton and only BRENNAN went to the Obama campaign. There in lies history.
The story seemed to leave @patrickbetdavid SPEECHLESS.
Jul 9, 2025 · 4:53 PM UTC ‘
——————-
Many of us at MoA know those folks were always deepstate/CIA actors from inception; as every Mockingbird trained and run presstitute is.
For instance we know that TopCat tucker has been from childhood ‘the Joe 90’ spy child – as he sets up the nextgen ‘antihero’ fake all American front, Fuentes.
You never leave the Company – you just become a greater gatekeeper/sheepdog and a bit more edgier not so limited hangout merchant !
Or in TC’s case a total flat out liar who claims he didn’t know his dad working for the cia radio was actually a cia officer and TC himself had not been their star apprentice from his earliest days in his dinky bow tie and journeys with McCain and co and ultimately to stardom through the ziofascist kingmaker, Lord of Darkness -Morrrdorks news and propaganda empire.
The Collective Wasters Presstitutes of all media are more poisonous than poxxed crack
whores on the streets of SF and Hollywood.
The Ziofascist Unipolar supremacist world empire is crumbling ever faster infront of our eyes.
REJOICE!
As Mad Maggie once demanded of the British peoples.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Aug 17 2025 7:05 utc | 300