Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 10, 2025
When Will Russia Attack NATO?

The cheerleaders of the military-industrial-media complex are trying to press people and governments into handing more money to them.

They do so by predicting, again and again, that the 'big bad bear' will soon come to slaughter them.

But their purported guestimates of when that will happen are all over the place:

Fortunately there are still some sane people with whom I tend to agree on this:

Comments

@George | Jun 11 2025 0:54 utc | 135
thanks for bringing that one back now

Posted by: AG | Jun 11 2025 10:15 utc | 201

@All Under Heaven | Jun 11 2025 1:07 utc | 137
Thanks for sharing that – however totally absurd – NYT piece.
It just queues into the known line of PR stunts.

Posted by: AG | Jun 11 2025 10:20 utc | 202

Posted by: All Under Heaven | Jun 11 2025 1:39 utc | 145
Then (after assassinating Putin) Trump would say that what’s done is done and that “we” should make the best of the
situation by installing a Western puppet in Moscow.
<= what would be the effect if the assassination boomeranged and it was Trump that lost the ability to exchange oxygen for carbon dioxide ? Would Putin install a Russian puppet in the White House? I think Trump is much more likely to be the victim of assassination than Putin. A hell of a lot of people in USA governed America hate him and untold millions in foreign places hate him, starting with people in England and Israel.. Its likely Putin's success as a Russian leader makes it unlikely that any attempt to replace Putin with a foreign controlled puppet would likely fail. I suspect on Putin's death (natural or by assassination) quite a number of Oligarchs will disappear forever, overnight! Oligarchy in Putin managed Russia has come to be a risky circumstance. I suspect the Russian people want to keep it that way.

Posted by: snake | Jun 11 2025 10:28 utc | 203

Hey, why not do Nixon’s Haiphong trick? Drop delayed naval mines off Odessa and tell every ship to leave in a week or so?

Posted by: Eighthman | Jun 11 2025 10:41 utc | 204

182 – What “communist majority”? There was nothing communist about the SPD. As the Kaiser was losing power in late 1918, SPD leader Friedrich Ebert was on the phone to a German general, Groener. Groener’s later account was Ebert saying that he “hated social revolution like sin”. Communism?

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 11 2025 10:43 utc | 205

“I think Trump is much more likely to be the victim of assassination than Putin. A hell of a lot of people in USA governed America hate him.”
Posted by: snake | Jun 11 2025 10:28 utc | 207
Well he appears to be doing everything to make it worse for himself right now in LA and I have read on other blogs that 1500 protests in other cities are planned for the weekend. Hard to know where this could end but it could turn very ugly. A lot of un-manifested emotional tension in the US right now I think.
I suspect that this is all because the Russian peace talks are a media failure for him and he is also probably reacting to the TACO name which I thought he would do. Probably wasn’t that smart to call him that and I wonder who’s idea it really was. Mainly because his narcissistic side was always likely to find an easy target to try to prove everyone wrong. It is likely to not work out too well for him though and not be a very pretty sight. He seems to be overriding many things the Americans hold precious and that is likely to go way beyond the illegal immigration issue.

Posted by: George | Jun 11 2025 10:52 utc | 206

@Jo #41
The UK Defence Review is already out. There is big talk about future spending increases, but that is not the interesting part.
The interesting part is that the Defence Review shows that the UK military is in pathetic shape and in no condition even to defend the UK from a peer adversary, much less project power.
You can read it here
Some juicy tidbits

We are delivering our commitment to spend 2.5% of GDP on defence, accelerating it to 2027, and we have set the ambition to reach 3% in the next Parliament, subject to economic and fiscal conditions. This investment will end the hollowing out of our armed forces and enable the UK to step up, to lead in NATO, and take greater responsibility for our collective self-defence.
But our response cannot be confined to increasing defence spending. We also need to see the biggest shift in mindset in my lifetime: to put security and defence front and centre—to make it the fundamental organising principle of government.

We will end the hollowing out of our Armed Forces and lead in a stronger, more lethal NATO.

The hollowing out of our forces—which was the hallmark of taking a big ‘peace dividend’ after the end of the Cold War—will, over time, be reversed.

The Integrated Force: a force fit for war in the 21st century
The essential task is to transform the Armed Forces, restore their readiness to fight, and reverse the ‘hollowing out’ of foundational capabilities without which they cannot endure in protracted, high-intensity conflict

A focus on ‘exquisite’ capabilities has masked the ‘hollowing out’ of the Armed Forces’ warfighting capability. Stockpiles are inadequate, further reduced by the important and necessary transfer of materiel to Ukraine. The Strategic Base lacks capacity and resilience following years of under investment. Medical services remain optimised for counter-terrorism operations and lack the capacity for managing a mass-casualty conflict.

To meet this challenge, the UK must pivot to a new way of war (Box 9). The essential task is to transform the Armed Forces, restore their readiness to fight, and reverse the ‘hollowing out’ of foundational capabilities without which they cannot endure in protracted, high-intensity conflict.

So there you have it: The UK military is not ready to fight, it cannot endure a protracted, high-intensity conflict if it was forced to and has been hollowed out.
UK defence capabilities furthermore cannot be restored without a literal historic shift in societal and government focus.
Mercouris has been saying for months, if not years, that the UK military is a bad joke: more generals than tanks, more admirals than functional warships, no self propelled artillery, no effective air defences, etc etc. yet UK politicians bristle like rabid Chihuahuas at Russia and China.
WTF
I leave it to others to determine if there is a snowball’s chance in Hell that the UK can undertake this historic rearming and reorganization – but my gut feeling is that this is all rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
The UK should focus on putting its economy in order first rather than trying to rearm with twin wet noodles of lack of industry and lack of wealth.

Posted by: c1ue | Jun 11 2025 10:55 utc | 207

Western “elites” are like : “Russia bad, so give us money.” Season 11 , Episode 26.

Posted by: Savonarole | Jun 11 2025 10:59 utc | 208

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 11 2025 9:02 utc | 197

Excellent list! Everyone should know this, IMO, and the very long story of Russophobia which is as ingrained as a trope in Western mindset as antisemitism. The only thing I’d change is the “25 million Russians” for WW2 — they were USSR citizens.

Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 11:06 utc | 209

enable the UK to step up, to lead in NATO, and take greater responsibility for our collective self-defence

why should a terrorist nation and statesponsor of terrorism lead anything “defense”-related?

Posted by: Justpassinby | Jun 11 2025 11:08 utc | 210

Posted by: c1ue | Jun 11 2025 10:55 utc | 211
Mercouris has been saying for months, if not years, that the UK military is a bad joke: more generals than tanks, more admirals than functional warships, no self propelled artillery, no effective air defences, etc etc. yet UK politicians bristle like rabid Chihuahuas at Russia and China.
WTF

The plan is to make Germany spend lots and lots in defense. All the other euros including the English are just pretending they’d do the same. And it is not for any shitty war with Russia, it’s all for economic reasons connected to the USA financial position.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jun 11 2025 11:13 utc | 211

IMO Merz, Starmer, Macron and Rutte et al are talking increased ‘defense’ spending to mollify Trump, Hegseth and Rubio. They have no intention of following through. European plebes aren’t having it.
They know that all they have to do is keep jawboning until the US mid terms.
They are happy to wait out the Trump admin. They may even up their ‘defense’ spending a small pittance just for show.
They’re all making back channel deals with the new overlord, China.
I don’t think conscription will work in Europe anymore. Either no one will show, or they will ALL show, yellow vest style.
Oh, and these aforementioned ‘leaders’ have all shaken the hand of either Zelensky or Assad.
Don’t they know about the curse?

Posted by: Inevitabllity | Jun 11 2025 11:21 utc | 212

Next came, the 1917 “revolution,” which was heavily financed by the bankers of Wall Street and Europe.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jun 11 2025 9:02 utc | 197
If the bankers of Wall Street and Europe funded the Bolshevik revolution, who financed
the counter-revolution to try to overthrow the Bolsheviks?

Posted by: waynorinorway | Jun 11 2025 11:23 utc | 213

“The plan is to make Germany spend lots and lots in defense. All the other euros including the English are just pretending they’d do the same. And it is not for any shitty war with Russia, it’s all for economic reasons connected to the USA financial position.”
Exactly. But how long will this work for given Germany and other big European countries, and Britain are all economically challenged and the people are getting a bit sick of the same old tale while they see they get less and less?

Posted by: George | Jun 11 2025 11:24 utc | 214

From DD Geopolitics Telegram:
„ Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said his country had received nuclear security guarantees from France
“I am very proud that we have completed the work and signed the treaty with France. For the first time, we have a commitment from a major nuclear power to fully defend ourselves against attack. We are also completing similar work on a treaty with the UK.”“
History often rhymes.
Let’s see if these guarantees are granted this time or if the Poles will get screwed again like they were circa 85 years ago.

Posted by: NoName | Jun 11 2025 11:58 utc | 215

In regard to reports of recent attacks by Russia on MI6 in Odessa, I must wonder. It must only take a quick phone call on a burner phone to settle scores with someone you don’t like among them or other mercenaries. I also tend to think these folks are often envious, egotistical or back stabbers.
Not a profession I would wish to be in. Dial an Iskander service?

Posted by: Eighthman | Jun 11 2025 12:05 utc | 216

Posted by: Jason | Jun 10 2025 19:53 utc | 51
This may be of help to you:
https://www.coursera.org/specializations/logic-critical-thinking-duke

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 11 2025 12:15 utc | 217

Now, conversely, that also means…
Who comes after Trump…?
Who comes after Putin is at least guessable…
And
The West, i.e., Western Europe, seems to be preparing to somehow survive four years of Trump, in the hope that then ?????
.
If something were to happen to Trump beforehand, well, it would be very, very difficult for the media in the Western bubble not to openly expose the party.
If something were to happen to Putin RIGHT NOW, there would be no chance for the elites in the West that things would improve for them…rather, if he’s a hardliner (which is almost certain), things could get very, very, very tight for warmongers and prostitutionists!

Posted by: Beobachter II | Jun 11 2025 12:17 utc | 218

Not for the first time they try to sell two propositions –
1. Russia’s armed forces are a joke
2. Russia’s armed forces are a major threat to Western Europe and may even have been seen at Calais with snow on their boots.
When did they stop teaching Logic as a subject in schools?

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 11 2025 12:18 utc | 219

Posted by: George | Jun 11 2025 11:24 utc | 218
But how long will this work for given Germany and other big European countries, and Britain are all economically challenged and the people are getting a bit sick of the same old tale while they see they get less and less?

It will work very well because (1) the major obstacle (constitutional restrictions) to Germany getting into debt and spending like the other euros was removed by a remarkable chicanery done by German establishment parties before Fritz raised to chancellor (actually, they used the voted-out parliament to pass that law) and (2) regular people don’t count for much because they are trapped with liberals for as long as they want to keep their welfare state, and they very much want to keep their welfare state.
Of all 4 major euro economies (Germany, France, Italy, Spain) Germany is the only to have room to grow in debt, while the UK is already maxed out supporting the USA financially.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jun 11 2025 12:19 utc | 220

Sorry, of course, posted by Peeks.
I wanted to add…that in Germany, people are openly discussing “how to survive the Trump era,” which was even an official topic here in Leipzig with the CDU.

Posted by: Beobachter II | Jun 11 2025 12:21 utc | 221

@DunGroanin | Jun 11 2025 9:02 utc, …
DunGroanin provided an excellent summary of the intensity and frequency of invasions into Russia by its neighbors to the West and the East.
This is very helpful as we try to understand how the Russians think, and where their emotional resolve comes from.
Nice work.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Jun 11 2025 12:21 utc | 222

https://catodezorra.substack.com/p/palantirs-killing-technology-and
How to survive the Trump era? Pretend to be Jooooo?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 11 2025 12:23 utc | 223

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 11 2025 12:18 utc | 224

Yes, this obvious contradition (“Russia so weak it can’t even handle Ukraine” vs. “Putin is going to attack EU next”) is one of the few things you can point out in polite society, in my opinion. Normal citizens don’t know and don’t give a shit about 2014, the Odessa trade union massacre, old and obsolete treaties or Serbia 1999.
The funny thing about “Russia weak” is that completely undersells Ukrainian forces. No other EUropean army came even close. Next would be Turkey but that’s NATO not EU. Cue vulgar-Einstein quote “definition of madness…”
Another thing I sometimes try is to point out that “we” are at sanctions package 18 now, with clearly bad results.
I also tried this: “losing a war” just means paying taxes to another capital and a different flag flies in front of the mayor’s house. And I don’t want (anyone) to die to prevent this.
Bottom line: discourse is barely possible. People need some private experience to break free from mainstream propaganda. Logical arguments fall flat.

Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 12:37 utc | 224

Posted by: hubert | Jun 11 2025 5:55 utc | 175
RE: The war between Russia and NATO is inevitable.
<< hubert, you wrote: "It's a kind of a law of nature. It has always been like that. It is not something humans can prevent to happen." My thoughts: Tolstoy addressed this in WAR & PEACE. Although the work is fiction, the author occasionally broke the 4th wall, so to speak, in order to interject insights from his own life. Tolstoy was a beekeeper, and he spoke of how, in autumn, a hive would inexplicably turn on itself, killing the entire colony as if in a frenzied fit of madness, seemingly for no rhyme or reason. He analogized this to the heedless/headless war-faring of Great Powers and the cannon fodder who get scooped up along the way. In that Tolstoy was addressing the French invasion of Russia in his iconic work, one can see that his mind had worked feverishly on this topic. Whether in beehives or Brussels, some natural phenomenon have no rational explanation. The magnetic attraction of battlefield slaughter and death are impossible to resist. …\\Y\\\\Y\\Y\\\\. .\\\Y\X\Y\\\X\\'_ _) ,,\\\\\\\\\XY\\\) * *_ X\\X\\\Y\\\\X\___,__@ ''\(,,,)\Y\\(,,,)--'

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 11 2025 12:37 utc | 225

A term I’ve heard bandied about is “escalation dominance”, and some here claim that Russia has it. Maybe my understanding of the term is unclear, but as I see it this applies only between Russia and the Ukraine.
But Russia isn’t fighting the Ukraine. Russia is fighting NATO. NATO is perfectly willing to escalate the fight with Russia, but the Russians are afraid to respond, much less escalate. Thus
NATO has absolute escalation dominance over Russia.
NATO is absolutely dominating the escalation over Russia.
NATO can escalate with impunity.
All Russia can do in response is kill a few NATO “instructors” who happen to be in the Ukraine. I don’t understand how people cannot see that this is not just giving NATO the green light to do as they please, but is practically begging them to escalate further. Had Russia exercised escalation dominance a couple years ago by clearing the sky over the Black Sea, then it is possible the escalation could have been ended there with NATO realizing the price of that policy. Unfortunately, the longer NATO is allowed to escalate without a Russian response, the greater that Russian response will have to be to achieve dominance of the escalation process. Strategically erasing Ramstein might not even be enough now to get ahead of the escalation.
Note that when the NATO cruise missiles start hitting Moscow, and Russia doesn’t respond strategically against NATO, then Russia has lost. Russia is admitting they will accept a nuclear decapitation strike. We’re dangerously close to that point right now.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 12:43 utc | 226

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 12:43 utc | 231
NATO has absolute escalation dominance over Russia.
NATO is absolutely dominating the escalation over Russia.
NATO can escalate with impunity.

Why are you writing the same thing three times? Is it a poem?
Now we know that you don’t get escalation dominance. It’s ok.

Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 12:53 utc | 227

Konami @232
Perhaps it is you who doesn’t understand the term, but if not, then educate me. Explain to me how Russia has escalation dominance over NATO when they cannot even respond against NATO.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 12:57 utc | 228

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 11 2025 12:18 utc | 224
There is even a word describing the “Russia weak but Russia in Lisbon tomorrow” discourse : Russophrenia.
It fits that psyop like a glove.

Posted by: Savonarole | Jun 11 2025 13:19 utc | 229

@ Posted by: All Under Heaven | Jun 11 2025 1:39 utc | 145
If you keep the following rule in mind, the world makes much greater sense:
Every American accusation is a confession.
Moreover, you could say this is the Golden Rule of America’s “Rules-Based World Order” in general.
In general, deception is a core American value.
Hell, one could say that lying, manipulating, and deceiving are the preeminent values of American society–from the average American patriotard to their war criminal regimes (including Mr. MAGA), whom they vote for.

Posted by: ak74 | Jun 11 2025 13:20 utc | 230

Those that speak about escalation dominance don’t know what they are speaking of.
Everything that Ukraine/NATO does is SOLD as an incredible hit on RF, while they are only pinprick.
What did really Ukraine/NATO achieved?
More or less nothing.
The big attack on nuclear bombers ended up with possible a dozen of strategic bombers, most of them tu95 so quite obsolete.
By the way only 2 of the 5 original targets were successfully.
It didn’t change anything for SMO, that go forward and is enhanced.
Unless someone thinks that a dozen of obsolete planes can give west the first strike option they are bubbling air from their mouths.
Reality is that west cannot win a conventional war against RF, let alone against the axis of resistance and, even going nuclear, if we are silly enough, will probably end in a useless destruction of the world.

Posted by: Mario | Jun 11 2025 13:21 utc | 231

Konami @232:

NATO has absolute escalation dominance over Russia.
NATO is absolutely dominating the escalation over Russia.
NATO can escalate with impunity.

Why are you writing the same thing three times? Is it a poem?

Maybe English isn’t your primary language. A little lesson:
Simple present: “NATO has absolute escalation dominance over Russia.”
Present continuous: “NATO is absolutely dominating the escalation over Russia.”
Modal indicating ongoing ability: “NATO can escalate with impunity.”
Basically, NATO has escalation dominance, has used it already, and will continue to use it in the future.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 13:24 utc | 232

Posted by: Boomslang | Jun 10 2025 17:46 utc | 19
>>>
Almost there. They will use Poland and other Baltic countries for that purpose, not just Ukraine.

Posted by: pepe | Jun 11 2025 13:28 utc | 233

And—
Just.
Like.
That-!
MAGA attention suddenly turns in the most-laser-focused manner possible to *the L.A. riots*(TM)
Way to change the subject, DJT-!
The tariff war wasn’t working in your favor…
The talks w/ Iran went cattywompus…
The attacks on Russia’s military airfields did not yield the expected results…
This is juicy and happening live during evening prime time in the U.S.—and it brings together long-time foes, DJT and Newsome, in a battle of titans over MAGA’s two most signature of issues: immigration & law enforcement.
DJT could not catch a break and make any sort of headway w/ Project Ukraine, so a spicy domestic crisis was just the menu item to cleanse the palate.
It’s as if DJT needed a dramatic & urgent reason to turn his gaze (and the country’s) from the recalcitrantly godawful Project Ukraine. How was *it* going to produce any polling results for him-?
Plus, it handed way to much media time & attention to the likes of always-odious neocons in the senate, like Lindsey & Danang Dick.
DJT needed to flex via his power triad: California/illegal aliens/the military.
That it’s popping off during DJT’s birthday week simply means there will be more & better fireworks come Flag Day on 14 June.
Flag Day on 14 June is not only DJT’s birthday but also the day when *communities*(TM) all over the U.S. will celebrate Juneteenth but also a Hands Off! resistance-style protest against DJT.
The *L.A. riots*(TM), which have now spread to Chicago, Atlanta and NYC, are simply setting the table for the spiciest weekend in DJT’s 2nd admin.
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Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 11 2025 13:31 utc | 234

@steel_porcupine | Jun 11 2025 13:31 utc | 241
Indeed a convenient distraction.
For sure the birthday party will be glorious.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 11 2025 13:34 utc | 235

Willem Gruff: You’ve replaced the statement “Russia has absolute escalation dominance” with its straight opposite “NATO has absolute escalation dominance”. I think that’s disingenious: it’s entirely black and white, and leaves no room for middle ground.
Let’s try: I interpret “escalation dominance” as the amount of strategic *potential*. It may never be tapped but you have it in reserve. It’s not about the current battle(s) but what could come after or in addition. Here are possibilities for either side:
NATO escalation potential:
1. non-Ukrainian troops officially in Ukraine
2. piracy season in the Baltic sea
3. using Germany’s Taurus missile to hit something in Russia where it hurts
4. extending the war beyond Ukraine, e.g. Belarus, drone attacks in Karelia etc.
5. nuclear weapons, first “tactical” then unlimited
Russian escalation potential:
1. after going from SMO to ATO, declare official war
2. first target out of Ukraine (e.g. Germany Schrobenhausen, home of Taurus)
3. closing Baltic sea to everyone (e.g. mining Kattegat)
4. increased sabotage against EUropean industry
5. nuclear weapons, as above
I am curious about more, please tell me!
From such lists I don’t get the impression that either side has “absolute escalation dominance” over the other. It is clear that there are many options for Russia to react. They have had a tendency to react conservatively but that can change (see: Crimea secession 2014, SMO 2022, Oreshnik showpiece). Undeniably, Moscow’s hand is forced, i.e. NATO/USA is doing something and then Moscow has to *re*act.
However, it is the West who feels forced to trigger radical change (this means that Western leading classes don’t see another way to stay in power). Because of this, Russia as part of the long-term winning side is incentivized to keep the temperature low.
We don’t know what the future brings but we can look back at history: (1) Russia did not give up Luhansk and Donbass but was (eventually) willing to step in, losing people on the order of hundreds of thousands. (2) Doing so, Russia faced global sanctions from the West and it was not clear from the outset how that’d go. (3) Russia has been preparing for military conflict, in research, conscription, production and diplomatically. (4) The whole Ukraine affair produced some local gains for the West (mostly USA, to be honest) but didn’t achieve anything strategically yet: the debt/currency and economic woes are, if anything, worse than 2022. (You can argue that the West made gains on the domestic front but we’ll see if and how that goes.)
When people here speak of “Russian escalation dominance”, I think they mean that Russia is better prepared for war than NATO is, for example with air defense. I believe this is true but as the Kremlin says like a stopped clock, Russia has zero interest in such a war. Some factions in the West have, though.
TL;DR: I don’t see how the current situation translates to “absolute escalation dominance” for either side. It is clear to me that Russia will not give in, and is willing to do *anything* if necessary.

Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 13:36 utc | 236

Is anyone really surprised that its a Ukrainian?
“A Ukrainian national who faces multiple attempted murder charges after a stabbing spree in Amsterdam has been identified as a military deserter who reportedly dreamed of spending the rest of his life in a Western European prison, according to a Dutch media investigation.
The suspect, who is accused of injuring five people near Dam Square in March, was identified as 30-year-old Roman D.
The Dutch public prosecutor suggested earlier this month that the attack could have had a terrorist motive.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 11 2025 13:37 utc | 237

Muh escalation dominance(TM) is meh
Though I must say the grammatical differentiation between the “modal indicating ongoing ability” and the “simple present tense” is esp fetching…
Has this thread gone dead-?
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Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 11 2025 13:37 utc | 238

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 11 2025 13:31 utc | 241
The *L.A. riots*(TM), which have now spread to Chicago, Atlanta and NYC, are simply setting the table for the spiciest weekend in DJT’s 2nd admin.

That’s a really good observation and I agree it explains a lot.
Unrelated: could you be swayed to drop the ASCII art? Not only is it large, it looks like shit to me. (To be fair, I didn’t try it with a monospace font.)

Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 13:38 utc | 239

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 12:43 utc | 231
I agree with your points. So how would you proceed if you were Russia then?
Their currently approach to restrict strikes to only Ukraine has not stopped the west from escalating, until now even attacking Russia’s nuclear triad. But Russia doesn’t actually want to attack and extend the war to Europe.
What response should they take that’ll elicit the outcome they want (lasting peace that takes into account Russia’s security needs)?
I think it’s a complex question that’s hard to answer.
Go full Shadowbanned and nuke Europe/US?
Oreshnik to NATO capitols?
Mind you half measures will only give political capital to the warmongers in the west for further military build up.

Posted by: Silent Waves | Jun 11 2025 13:39 utc | 240

Konami @243: “Russian escalation potential”
Aside from perhaps #1, none of those “potentials” has a precedent. They don’t count.
Now take a look at the NATO “NATO escalation potential”. Which one will move Russia beyond their escalation potential #1 in your list? None of them except perhaps #5, and that is debatable.
Though I’d like to be proven wrong. It would be nice if Russia can get ahead of the escalation before we get to #5, but I don’t think it is likely. Certainly there is no precedent for it with regards to NATO.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 13:48 utc | 241

Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 13:36 utc | 243
My view is that NATO will continue its salami slicing strategy to conduct escalating attacks through hybrid warfare and terrorism, while Russia will continue to play “above board” and only conduct military retaliation, probably only in Ukraine. In that sense NATO will indeed have escalation dominance.
The main problem I see is that the decision makers who are conducting the attacks (NATO) are seeing no consequences, as the people taking the damage (Ukraine) are tools they don’t care about.

Posted by: Silent Waves | Jun 11 2025 13:50 utc | 242

One knows that a thread has gone subjunctively dead when colleagues are speculating about events that *might* happen in 3-5 years.
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Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 11 2025 13:50 utc | 243

The Germans come top of the poll – on who Russians think are countries most hostile to Russia – I’d have to say I thought the top spot would’ve been held by the Brits.
“They probably won’t but Germans should pay close attention to a recent news item out of Russia: The Levada polling institute – long internationally acknowledged as serious and dependable – has published the result of a recent survey. It shows that Germany is now considered peak hostile by ordinary Russians: 55% of them name Germany as the country most unfriendly toward Russia.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 11 2025 13:57 utc | 244

As usual, when you hear NATO propaganda, turn it around 180° and you will get pretty close to the truth, so the warmongers actually ask:
“When will WE finally attack Russia again?!”

Posted by: Beatrice | Jun 11 2025 13:57 utc | 245

Tricks of the lying Western media – on this occasion they have been well caught out.
“An affiliate of US broadcaster ABC has aired footage of the chaos in Gaza to report on an alleged Russian strike on the Ukrainian city of Kharkov.
The segment was broadcast last week on ABC’s South Florida affiliate, WPLG Local 10, but only recently captured attention. The outlet reported on an alleged Russian attack on Kharkov, which Ukrainian officials claimed killed at least four people, while the visuals showed glaring inconsistencies.
Instead of showing an Eastern European landscape or heavily urbanized areas, the video showed a large crowd of people, some of whom were women wearing hijabs, scrambling for cover across desert terrain.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 11 2025 13:57 utc | 246

On the French who are desperately trying to undermine the (AES) the Alliance of Sahel States – the AES was formally established in September 2023 by Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger as a mutual defence and cooperation pact following the expulsion of French troops from the respective members. The three military-led states have since withdrawn from the West African bloc ECOWAS, denouncing it as a tool for French neocolonial influence – and a threat to their sovereignty.
France has been using Ukrainian terrorists – to try and destablise the pact and to carry out terrorism in neighbouring states.
In recent weeks, officials in Ouagadougou and Niamey have also accused France and Ukraine of sponsoring terrorism to weaken the Sahel military governments.
“Late last month, Niger’s transitional leader, General Abdourahamane Tchiani, accused French operatives of collaborating with rebel factions along border regions in neighboring Benin and Nigeria as part of a coordinated plot to destabilize his country and the wider Sahel. Ukraine has also been implicated for allegedly doing the “dirty work” of Western powers by training and supplying weapons to insurgents behind more than a decade of jihadist violence in Mali.
On Monday, Burkinabe President Traore warned that the West’s efforts to destabilize the region are driven by a hunger for the Sahel’s vast and untapped natural wealth.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 11 2025 13:58 utc | 247

As usual, when you hear NATO propaganda, turn it around 180° and you will get pretty close to the truth, so the warmongers actually ask:
“When will WE finally attack Russia again?!”
Posted by: Beatrice | Jun 11 2025 13:57 utc | 252
Very insightful. Seems pretty accurate with the media coverage we’re getting.

Posted by: Silent Waves | Jun 11 2025 14:00 utc | 248

William Gruff: There was a hiccup in Western reaction after Oreshnik. There are voices in the Western bloc that see the conflict (not just the battle in Ukraine!) is lost, and want to adapt. While there may be some in the West that prefer nuclear war, that’s not the majority. I believe the main EUropean goals are (the USA goals are very different):
1. Keep war going. This means to prepare the next war once Ukraine is done. If it comes to this, the war has to be localised, just like the one in Ukraine.
2. Prepare the former “golden billion” for an iron future.
We can see both of these happening. For example, they’re trying so hard to prepare Transnistria/Moldova and there are (still!) attempts to get Georgia going once again. I believe that if neither work out, Brussels is willing to sacrifice one or several Baltic statelets — that’s not terribly hard to do: just repress the (sizeable) Russian minorities until Moscow has to act.
re: escalation. It’s pretty clear that Russia is going to act rationally to the end. The West doesn’t (I think the ultimate sources of decision are rational but a lot on the lower levels aren’t or at least pretend to be a bit mad.) This is why a lot of people in a forum like this will always be unhappy with Russia: too late, too little. I disagree and I hope that for the regions east of Dniepr, the Chechnya plan works out.

Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 14:03 utc | 249

Silent Waves @247: “…half measures will only give political capital to the warmongers in the west for further military build up.”
Correct, which is why the “escalations” #1 through #4 that Konami offered above are really bad ideas at this stage. It is necessary not to match NATO’s escalation, but to exceed it in order to have any chance of stopping the process. NATO has already attempted assassinating Putin and has struck Russia’s strategic deterrence. The response against NATO (not the Ukraine) must be greater than that to have any chance of being effective. I’ll leave it to you to guess what is greater than a conventional strike against the adversary’s strategic deterrence.
As I’ve said, it would have been better had Russia gotten ahead in the climb up the escalation ladder before things had gotten to his point.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 14:06 utc | 250

The Germans come top of the poll – on who Russians think are countries most hostile to Russia – I’d have to say I thought the top spot would’ve been held by the Brits.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 11 2025 13:57 utc | 251

while the brits are the most hostile for the government, i would wager that the ordinary citizen of russia is more starting to hate germany simply because of the media circumstances.
the eu is openly calling for “decolonization”, imposing sanctions (illegaly), stealing money etcpp. and who is on the forefront of the eu? who is the person most vocal, in the media, on front papers, on the tv? its a german. its our ursula, that even we germans got rid off. only to have her be put at the top of the eu. everyone hates her. and the ordinary russian who has to endure all these attacks and all this bullying by the eu, sees a german as the mouthpiece.
and then you have anal-ena bareback with her nazi statements, beeing put in the un. again, a german russphob at the center of the mediasphere.
they dont see a brit making all these comments and statements and whatnot. its ursula.
sometimes i think we germans are beeing set up once again.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Jun 11 2025 14:08 utc | 251

@249
Sounds like the people taking the damage have a bone to pick with the decision makers.

Posted by: Fred777 | Jun 11 2025 14:12 utc | 252

Posted by: Justpassinby | Jun 11 2025 14:08 utc | 257
they dont see a brit making all these comments and statements and whatnot. its ursula.
sometimes i think we germans are beeing set up once again.

I think they do see.
And sometimes I wonder what would happen *if* Russian missiles hit Schrobenhausen or Rheinmetall HQ Düsseldorf (chances are really low IMO but not zero). Because perhaps nothing would happen: there’d be another big propaganda burst in the West but secretly everyone –USA, UK, France, Poland– is happy that the Germans got hit in the face?

Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 14:15 utc | 253

Beatrice@252…..Propaganda 101: Always reverse, and multiply by two. I guess propaganda has its place for the ignorant masses, someone’s gotta be da sheep, but having an undergraduate degree in BTT, it’s never a question of when, more of, attack what next? At the moment Russia has fancy standoff weapons but the Brits control the Escalation Dominance. Lavrov actually acknowledged it…..finally. $64k question, other than kill more Ukie meat, what how and when will Russia deter the Brits.
Cheers M
BTT……British Terror Tactics

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 11 2025 14:17 utc | 254

244 – I wonder why he did not vent that obvious aggression at the front. Clearly an ambitious fellow, seeking to spend the rest of his life in a West European jail. Some people aspire after Shangri-La, others Utopia. He wants three hots and a cot in the Dutch equivalent of Belmarsh…

Posted by: Waldorf | Jun 11 2025 14:23 utc | 255

Tricks of the lying Western media – on this occasion they have been well caught out.
“An affiliate of US broadcaster ABC has aired footage of the chaos in Gaza to report on an alleged Russian strike on the Ukrainian city of Kharkov.
The segment was broadcast last week on ABC’s South Florida affiliate, WPLG Local 10, but only recently captured attention. The outlet reported on an alleged Russian attack on Kharkov, which Ukrainian officials claimed killed at least four people, while the visuals showed glaring inconsistencies.
Instead of showing an Eastern European landscape or heavily urbanized areas, the video showed a large crowd of people, some of whom were women wearing hijabs, scrambling for cover across desert terrain.”
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 11 2025 13:57 utc | 253
I remember watching an interview of a prominent US journalist (possibly Matt Taibbi) describing how they create stories, in this case it was about “human rights abuses in Kazakhstan”. Instead of traveling to Kazakhstan, do an investigation there and create the story, they were just given a template on the plane and all they had to do was to fill in the names once they got there.
The narrative is already created at propaganda HQ, the journalist’s job is to just fill in the blanks. In some cases the journalist was too lazy for even that, so you’d get incidents like this.

Posted by: Silent Waves | Jun 11 2025 14:27 utc | 256

257 / Justpassinby // “sometimes i think we germans are beeing set up once again.”
The Anglos pushing the 2 main power of the continent to fight each other again. The Yankees pretending again to get out of Europe, waiting for the two power to exhaust themselves, then returning at the last minute to get all the spoils… Again.
There is one good news though : this WW won’t be WW3, it will be WWL (last)…

Posted by: Asian Frog | Jun 11 2025 14:29 utc | 257

That elephant in the room is Trump is more than happy for NATO to get bigger and US expansion to bloom in the Asia pacific. As long as America doesn’t have to pay for all of it.
That is often overlooked. Ever since he won the election that has been his foreign policy.
Even the tariff policy was to try and get NATO to increase their military spend. Also force Asian Proxies to spend more.
It’s all about peace through strength = Peace on American terms and the US rules based order.
Have completely no idea why anybody would think Trump supports a multi polar world. When his actions are anything but.
The secondary sanctions and tariffs threatened on the BRICS countries if they stop using the $. The secondary sanctions and tariffs threatened on any country that deals with China only reinforces this narrative.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 11 2025 14:30 utc | 258

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 11 2025 14:30 utc | 264
Have completely no idea why anybody would think Trump supports a multi polar world. When his actions are anything but.

Team Trump doesn’t “support” the multipolar world. They have to face it. Despite clever agitation on the home front there is a reality elsewhere that cannot be ignored.
The only question for US decision makers is how to deal with the loss of unipolarity.

Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 14:33 utc | 259

Ray McGovern & John Helmer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhQVR6x1td8
Discussion of the dangers of Trump, NATO and ‘the coalition of the brain-dead’ against Russia.

Posted by: JohnGilberts | Jun 11 2025 14:39 utc | 260

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 14:06 utc | 256
Not much of a solution if your only answer is the Shadowbanned one. The damage they’d receive from nuclear retaliation would make the total SMO losses look absolutely insignificant. On the highly unlikely chance they manage a nuclear first strike that takes out all the NATO retaliation capabilities it’ll irradiate the planet and create a nuclear winter that’ll wipe out most of the human population.

Posted by: Silent Waves | Jun 11 2025 14:41 utc | 261

There is one good news though : this WW won’t be WW3, it will be WWL (last)…
Posted by: Asian Frog | Jun 11 2025 14:29 utc | 263
—-
I don’t think so myself.
Scenario I see, it may take a thousand years to recover from, but the few survivors will repopulate the earth and they will inevitably covet ‘the other tribes stuff’.
Humans are like cockroaches. We are extremely tough to exterminate (see Gaza). A few dozen survivors in the ‘not wealthy enough to be worth nuking’ regions are all it will take to set the whole shit-show in motion again. Eventually WW4 or WW-next or WW1-new era.
But if the planet could somehow get rid of humans, the rest of the species would certainly be better off.

Posted by: saner | Jun 11 2025 14:42 utc | 262

The Duran, The judge, Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern and Scott Ritter are very quickly becoming an absolute joke. A group of Trump apologists.
I know why they are doing it because jaw, jaw is better than war. Trump is being treated like the Teflon Don so that jaw,jaw, can keep on happening. Russia has taken that stance also. Because even though they know Trump is full of shit it is better than World War 3.
Brian Berletic has made them all look like a bunch of amatuers as they persue this strategy.
Will it work ?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Answers on a postcard. My own view is the Americans will never walk away from Ukraine.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 11 2025 14:43 utc | 263

From DD Geopolitics Telegram:
„Senior German Social Democrats Demand Talks With Russia
Several prominent members of Germany’s Social Democratic Party (SPD), part of the ruling coalition, have issued a public manifesto urging Berlin to restart dialogue with Russia and to abandon the current militarization policy pursued under NATO’s guidance.
As reported by Stern, the signatories strongly oppose the planned deployment of new U.S. intermediate-range missiles in Europe and reject Berlin’s push to raise defense spending to 5% of GDP — calling it “irrational” and detached from Germany’s actual defense needs.
Instead, they call for military budgets to be based on realistic security requirements rather than arbitrary GDP percentages.
Crucially, the manifesto underscores the need to reestablish diplomatic dialogue with Moscow to restore peace and security in Europe. The authors warn that “military rhetoric and massive arms programs do not create more security for Germany or Europe — they fuel instability and escalate the sense of mutual threat between NATO and Russia.”
The SPD figures further argue that any support to Ukraine must be balanced against the broader and legitimate security interests of all European countries — including Russia. Only on this basis, they say, can a difficult but necessary dialogue with Moscow resume after a ceasefire.“

Posted by: NoName | Jun 11 2025 14:47 utc | 264

Silent Waves @267
Possibly, but that is in the pipeline now anyway.
Like I said, it would have been better to nip the escalation in the bud. It only gets worse the longer a response is delayed.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 14:48 utc | 265

What would inhibit anyone from making up predictions as to future events, paricularly where they are motivated to do so by the expectation of this future event would tend to benefit the person making the claim – well, nothing really.
People are free to make whatever claims that they like; however, acting on those claims has a cost.
In fact, adopting those claims as valid may have a cost.
I have seen it said that the early (original meaning) of the term “terrorism” was:
The act of promoting fear for to achieve a political outcome.
By that meaning of the term, the political leaders claiming that Russia will attack and using the fear of this possiblity to motivate their political agenda are Terrorists.

Posted by: jared | Jun 11 2025 14:54 utc | 266

Posted by: Jason | Jun 11 2025 13:04 utc | 235
“Next NATO carries out devastating major attacks against Russia. Again gets away with it.
It’s now normalized. Russia is expected to endure these attacks. Putin seems to have accepted his fate and does not resist. Time to replace Putin. Russia deserves a stronger leader who can restore the dignity of the nation.”
Perhaps Putin’s sense of timing is different? It sounds like they are threatening a pretty severe response. If a month from now nothing spectacular has happened then your perspective may be correct.

Posted by: Paranaense | Jun 11 2025 14:59 utc | 267

Posted by: jared | Jun 11 2025 14:54 utc | 272
All government is Terrorist.
“Do as we say or we will send men with guns to take your money, take you away to jail, or kill you”
Barely any carrot, mostly big stick.

Posted by: saner | Jun 11 2025 14:59 utc | 268

The Russians had NOBODY to talk too while they are under NATO attack.
Now they have somebody to talk too while they are under NATO attack. The Teflon Don will get a free pass on just about anything as long as that communication channel remains open.
To prevent WW3..
Truth, lies, facts and denials..It doesn’t matter, what matters most to the Russians is that channel remains open.
That’s the strategy The Duran, The judge, Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern and Scott Ritter have been told to promote.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 11 2025 15:01 utc | 269

The only question for US decision makers is how to deal with the loss of unipolarity.
Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 14:33 utc | 265
100% agree with you Konami.
But they won’t, they’ll never give it up. It’s peace through strength which are just fancy words to try and preserve the US rules based order and peace on their terms.
Hegseth has spelt it out in bold print on three different ocassions. During a 6 month period.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 11 2025 15:10 utc | 270

Possibly, but that is in the pipeline now anyway.
Like I said, it would have been better to nip the escalation in the bud. It only gets worse the longer a response is delayed.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 14:48 utc | 271
That’s the worst possible option. Everything below that, ranging from using Oreshnik on Europe to doing absolutely nothing would be better.
Serious answers please.
If you actually think that’s what’s going to happen, I hope you can take a picture of the fallout shelter you’re posting from and show us you’re putting your money where your mouth is.

Posted by: Silent Waves | Jun 11 2025 15:11 utc | 271

Putin is 72. I view him as the best world leader in my lifetime. Within the next decade, leadership will likely pass to a good, but inevitably less capable and less capable successor. Meanwhile, Western leadership is only becoming more psychopathic and criminal. Today we are fine, 50 years from now, I’m not so sure. We have been capable of destroying the world for the past 75 years. Do I think mankind is rational enough to handle that responsibility forever – no I do not.

Posted by: Deniz | Jun 11 2025 15:23 utc | 272

Silent Waves @277: “…doing absolutely nothing would be better.”
Then do nothing and just take the hits. Russia doesn’t need its bombers anyway. Or its An-50s. Or its early warning radar. Or its navy’s flagships. And when NATO cruise missiles start hitting Moscow, you don’t need to know if they are carrying nuclear warheads or not. You can just trust NATO.
It’s better than striking back, after all. I mean, NATO might get angry at you then.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 15:25 utc | 273

Ritter gave an excellent interview with Nima (Dialogue Works) yesterday. It was enlightening.
He believes the Russians talking to the Americans buys time before an American supported NATO war. It keeps the Americans out (for now).
They know America cannot be trusted and that Trump is weak but they aren’t fighting Trump. They are fighting the Senate and Deep State as well.
That seems congruent with what we know and hear.
Scott also said that Biden ordered the CIA to conduct a clandestine war with Russia (strategic defeat) that that Trump has not (cannot?) stopped.
It was a great segment where Ritter was primarily cold and analytical. He was at his best, IMO.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 11 2025 15:34 utc | 274

I like Medinsky

The head of the Russian delegation at the talks with Kiev, Vladimir Medinsky, suggested sending Rutte a textbook so that he would learn that “there was no Ukraine in the 12th century.”
Earlier, Rutte said that Putin should sit at the negotiating table, and “not this historian who has been telling the history of Russia and Ukraine since almost the 12th century.”

https://t.me/ukr_leaks_eng/22179

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 11 2025 15:37 utc | 275

@ William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 15:25 utc | 279
you’ve been more talkative then usual on this thread today… i know you’ve expressed these positions before – russia isn’t doing enough essentially… do you think nato is succeeding in slowly getting its way here with russia? what do you think is the best way for russia to move forward at this point?? would you like to see russia attack nato directly? is that it? more of your perspective on the way to resolve all this are welcome..

Posted by: james | Jun 11 2025 15:37 utc | 276

Posted by: Jason | Jun 11 2025 13:04 utc | 235
Fucking liar nato troll!
All your lies are what everyone can read or listen in the western merdias. And what they hope, but will not happen.
Another wargas-lighting at the bar.
By the way the RF Army crossed the border of the Dniepopretovsk region and there will be the junction of the centre and east fronts. No bunker to defend it in the area.
Bad news for the liars and the nato trolls.
But where is anonymous when we need it?! LOL! Everyone understood. Maybe he died from his lies?! Or he was killed by one of the recent strikes? Who know?

Posted by: Naive | Jun 11 2025 15:39 utc | 277

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 15:25 utc | 279
Yes in fact, total surrender would be better than your idea of nuclear first strike.
The most extreme option I see Russia can possibly take is tell NATO they’re going to strike military facility X or kill politician X in response to the latest NATO attack on X. Emphasising this is a non nuclear attack and this is a proportionate retaliation through the diplomatic channels. Because this will at least give NATO a chance to climb down instead of automatic double suicide.

Posted by: Silent Waves | Jun 11 2025 15:42 utc | 278

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 11 2025 15:01 utc | 275
And you’ve missed a point, we’ve never saw so many foreign leader in Moscow signing “partnership” and the trend is growing, it’s not only BRICS or “global south”, even some NATO member are paying some visits (05/09…).
It infuriate the neocons globalist puppets like Kaka Kalas but hey ! Actions have consequences : The sacrosanct dollar is no more ; FED can print as much worthless paper they want, it won’t matter.
The Don is an illusionist and Russians know how it goes : they had a Gorbachev back in the days. They are polite enough to speak with him. Did it changed anything on the battlefields ? Not much : NATO (US included) is still delivering hardware, intel and money to the banderites.
Facts ? Meh ! Who cares about facts anyways ? Apart the non-Western world … ROW doesn’t count right ? Right ?
Fortunately all this charade will end soon and the global situation assessment in the end will not be pretty.

Posted by: Savonarole | Jun 11 2025 15:45 utc | 279

you’ve been more talkative then usual on this thread today… i know you’ve expressed these positions before – russia isn’t doing enough essentially… do you think nato is succeeding in slowly getting its way here with russia? what do you think is the best way for russia to move forward at this point?? would you like to see russia attack nato directly? is that it? more of your perspective on the way to resolve all this are welcome..
Posted by: james | Jun 11 2025 15:37 utc | 282

For people deaf or unable to understand the policy of Russia, I post again the following reply by Putin. For yes, too many here want to give advice to Russia, but fuck them all, for Russia is not listening to warmongering and stupid people with their western absence of values. Some people here only display their impatience and their emotions. No self-control and even worst, no trust in Russia and its government.
————————————————————–
Journalist: My question is direct: why, despite the numerous provocations of the West, whether economic sanctions, hostile speeches or indirect military acts, does Russia not respond more head-on, more firmly, when you have all the means to impose respect and even force the West to reconsider its position? Is it a strategy, a restraint or something else.
Putin: Thank you for this question, it is legitimate and it resonates with many people in Russia and beyond. What you are asking here is actually the question of choosing between immediate strength and long-term strategy, between the reaction instinct and self-control. You see, Russia is not a young country, it is not a power born from a coup or an accident of history, it is the heir of a thousand years of civilization, trials, victories and rebirths. We have seen empires arise and collapse, we have survived invasions, revolutions, world wars, blockades, encirclement attempts, and we are still here. This is not the result of an aggressive posture, it is the result of our ability to observe, analyze, wait and act at the right moment. Yes, we have the necessary means, whether military, economic, energy or technological, to respond head-on to any attempt to provoke or pressure. Yes, we have modernized our armed forces, yes we have strengthened our economic sovereignty and yes we have forged solid alliances with nations that respect international law and the principles of multipolarity, but precisely because we have its means, we do not need to brandish them at any time as a threat. In history, the greatest mistakes have been made by those who have confused power and impulsiveness. To respond to each provocation with an immediate reaction is to enter into a spiral of conflicts that benefits no one, except perhaps those who live from disorder. And Russia, I firmly say, will not allow itself to be dragged into this spiral. We have other ambitions, other responsibilities, we love the world, this may come as a surprise from the mouth of a president whom some Western media describe as cold, strategic or even authoritarian. But I repeat, we love the world, we love peace, we respect peoples, their traditions, their right to choose their path, We do not believe in the uniformity imposed by a single power or a single cultural model. The international order must not be that of the strongest, but that of the fairest. Look at what is happening under the pretext of democracy, some states seek to impose their interests, to overthrow governments, to instrumentalize regional conflicts, have triggered trade or monetary wars, and when a country like Russia simply says no, we will not follow this logic, so they sanction it, they isolate it, they demonize it. But we will not give in, because our strength is in our calm, in our historical memory and in our vision of the future.

Posted by: Naive | Jun 11 2025 15:50 utc | 280

Posted by: saner | Jun 11 2025 14:42 utc | 268
But if the planet could somehow get rid of humans, the rest of the species would certainly be better off.

Not the non-rodent mammals of course. Most non-rodent mammals depend on us for survival.
And the rest of the species, they are more brutal, poor and sick than us.
Male lyons kill the young of other males and then lionesses feel horny to replace their lost offspring.
They virtually fuck on the dead bodies of their kids.
Lol!
We are giving this planet some decency.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jun 11 2025 15:52 utc | 281

@235. Jason,
Put Hitler/ Nazis where you put NATO, and Churchill where you put Putin and you will have it better
NATO-Nazi on the last legs striking out with terror unrelated to the battles.

Posted by: paddy | Jun 11 2025 15:54 utc | 282

If another commenter gets an emotional “rise” from you, you’ve lost the argument.
Yes, people say stupid and evil things. Most people are not particularly bright.
Why worry about what some stranger online has said?
It’s not real. It carries no weight.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 11 2025 16:02 utc | 283

A Few points to note:
1] Finally, in an astounding turn of events, even the dimmest fanboys are finally waking up:
Russia has…the manpower. A better question would be, why haven’t they committed more manpower yet?” LoveDonbass 572
2] Clearly some Russian Generals must’ve been secretly gritting their teeth at the Russia’s HighCom/Kremlin/Putin:
When…asked, “Why hasn’t Russia destroyed the bridges over the Dnieper River, which would cutoff the Ukrainian army from its vital logistics needs?” he laughed and said, “I have wondered that myself.” [Lt. Gen. Buzhinsky] explained “If Russia had destroyed the bridges early on in the Special Military Operation, it would have left the bulk of Ukraine’s army intact on the west side of the river.” So, now? Destroying the bridges may now make sense. It will cut off what is left of Ukraine’s army and facilitate Russia gaining control of all of Eastern Ukraine” source-Sonar21
The sad part is, the Galicians remained in the rear, “the bulk of [them] intact on the west side of the river” so…leaving the bridges up did nothing positive, indeed it facilitated the killing of over a million reluctant conscripts and the strengthing of Galician control over the central region of ex-ukrainia.
3] And finally…speaking of “finally”:
Putin was furious [Lt. Gen. Buzhinsky said] the closest that the United States and Russia have come to the brink of nuclear war since the Cuban missile crisis” source-Sonar21
About effing time Mr, all those troops died, millions upon millions of mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles and cousins have been mourning…about effing time.

Posted by: S Brennan | Jun 11 2025 16:06 utc | 284

Why would Russia bother attacking NATO when NATO is already doing a very good job at destroying itself?

Posted by: Gee Eye Joe | Jun 11 2025 16:08 utc | 285

It is not enough to win the war even if Russia attacks NATO, and I think it won’t do the latter unless it is attacked by the West first…and in a major way.
It is not enough to win the war because Russia has won the war a few times and still ended up as losers. Main case in point is the Russo-Turkish wars of the late 1870s . Russia and its allies -the Bulgars and Romanians -thrashed the Turks and were camping on the outskirts of Constantinople .The little Greek village of San Stefano , Berlin and a treaty may come to mind.
Well they still lost. Russia was too timid and was scared off by the threat of combined action of Brits, French,Turks and Germans etc. So it packed up and left! Russia must have strong and smart leaders AFTER any major win in war as well. All it took were a few greedy stupid Soviets to sign away the strength of the USSR. No, I don’t buy into the “West brought down the USSR via military and economic strength” fairytale. It was treason , timidity and stupidity. Plain and simple.

Posted by: Mustee | Jun 11 2025 16:08 utc | 286

Posted by: james | Jun 11 2025 15:37 utc | 282
William has indicated his preferred option in his post 256.
Unfortunate, I was also wondering if he had better, more thoughtful ideas when he was criticising Russia’s current one, but it turned out to be most bog stand out trope Americans would tend to think of.

Posted by: Silent Waves | Jun 11 2025 16:10 utc | 287

Posted by: waynorinorway | Jun 11 2025 11:23 utc | 217
Did you not know that Stalin could make decisions on behalf of German communists while Lenin was head of the central committee and Trotski was leading the red army against Poland? So much nonsense in that post I almost thought it was meant as a bad joke. Would have been a good one if it had been.

Posted by: Badjoke | Jun 11 2025 16:14 utc | 288

james @282: “what do you think is the best way for russia to move forward at this point??”
There is no good way forward at this point. All options are bad. I suppose the Russians can cross their fingers, do nothing, and hope their adversaries self-destruct before they do much more to harm to Russia, but that is not really a plan. More like a prayer. As my dear grandma used to say, “Shit in one hand and pray in the other and see which one fills up first.”
If one thinks Russia cannot respond to NATO attacks without ending the world, then NATO can freely attack Russia without consequences, and has been doing so and will continue to do so. There is really nothing to discuss in that case. What I can say with certainty is that if Russia does decide to respond in some way beyond just smacking their bitch up the Ukraine around some more, that response must deliver greater impact than the provocation it is a response to. Anything less is an open invitation to more attacks. That is the simple dynamics of a street fight, and presumably Putin is familiar with those.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 16:16 utc | 289

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 11 2025 15:10 utc | 276
But they won’t, they’ll never give unipolarity up. It’s peace through strength which are just fancy words to try and preserve the US rules based order and peace on their terms.

There’s so much negativity going around, and I can see why.
First: Who is “they”? The politicians we chatter about endlessly act stupidly, having been chosen and groomed like this — but these are expendable. In five years we’ll talk different names. Most Western politicians are unable to let go of unipolarity but they are not “they”. (I write “mostly” because people like Vance and Rubio at least acknowledge the existence of multipolarity.)
Second: “They” are rational actors (I posit; some will disagree) and can adapt: “they” will come to grips with multipolarity. Put to the logical extreme, the ultimate choice for Western top decision makers is between
a) accepting multipolarity and
b) starting a world war, denying earth to anyone.
It’s either-or because the economic struggle is long lost to China. You write “peace through strength” but that effectively requires subduing China in a war. I agree that Hegseth’s job is to start the subjugation scenario.
I can believe that there are people, including important people, who choose world war. I just don’t think it’ll be the eventual outcome because even for the greediest/meanest of humans, exploiting 1/5 of mankind and having a luxurious life beats dying. (We have a problem with rich people who genuinely believe they can sit out nuclear winter in their New Zealand bunker. Such people exist. There is a similar problem with people who fall for the life-on-Mars fairytale.)
For those who grudgingly accept multipolarity there are still many choices: the new Iron Curtain that’s being erected just now, how strict will it be? For example, to trade with China or not? What level of totalitarianism to put onto Liberal Democracies ™? A good idea to sacrifice Western Europe in a local war (whether against Big Bad Russia or internally) to prop up Northern America?

Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 16:17 utc | 290

There is no good way forward at this point. All options are bad
I concur with the sentiment but what is..is. We’re here now. My suggestion has been and still is, stop the “WW-I-attrition-shit” and start fighting the war as an effing war, cut off supply lines, cut off retreats, [particularly of Waffen SS troops] force surrender or, annihilation.
Take back the Black Sea Coast to Transnistria and create a DMZ/kill-zone/buffer-zone, let the Slovaks and Hungarians take their lands back within the Austrian model guidelines.
This will humiliate the English as nothing else will. And…let’s face it, this effing war was masterminded by English-schoolboys and their cousins, the anglophilic-American-School-boys of Langley.

Posted by: S Brennan | Jun 11 2025 16:33 utc | 291

Some in EUNATO believe the following: Ukraine should stall Russia for another 5 years, because its population will last that long. After that, there would be no more Ukraine and Ukrainians, but Russia would be weakened to such an extent – and EUNATO would be armed to such an extent that it could conquer Russia conventionally. Hence these 5-year plans, they only ever have to do with how long Ukrainians will last. The longer the better, but EUNATO doesn’t believe in more than 5 years either.
What EUNATO will misjudge, however (just as others have misjudged before), is that it is so obvious that it is impossible for Russia to overlook it. There would then be two options for Russia: The war will be over sooner than in 5 years or it will no longer be fought conventionally. Of course, EUNATO also knows this, which is why this 2030 war will probably not happen in the end.
Which brings us to the home front: How is EUNATO then supposed to explain the massive waste of money and bad investments to its population, which will certainly not be wealthier by then, and above all pull its own head out of the (perhaps not just metaphorical) noose? It’s simple: the friendly comrades in the olive green uniforms, who will be ready for action at home by then, can do it!

Posted by: xblob | Jun 11 2025 16:34 utc | 292

Why worry about what some stranger online has said?
Agreed yet, to purposely try to evoke that reaction, as you have admitted is pure troll, and so are you alot of the time here. Stop posting trollish shit.
It’s a matter of respect for the other or as u label it stranger. It’s that simple. Can’t expect the same in return if that’s how u act, and you act like that more than most here

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jun 11 2025 16:35 utc | 293

do any of these alarmists ever explain what Russia’s goal would be in such a conflict? Russia is the largest nation in the world and has the greatest endowment of natural resources. why would Russia be interested in conquering such a decrepit pest hole? Europe is n the process of destroying itself. All Russia has to do is watch the show.

Posted by: moishe pipik | Jun 11 2025 16:46 utc | 294

Posted by: Konami | Jun 11 2025 13:38 utc | 246
RE: can you drop the ASCII art-?
My sworn pledge is *not* to drop the ASCII art, known as porcupine_of_steel, until the identity verification of Peter AU1, if not the Proof of Life, is settled absolutely.
…\\Y\\\\Y\\Y\\\\.
.\\\Y\X\Y\\\X\\’_ _)
,,\\\\\\\\\XY\\\) * *_
X\\X\\\Y\\\\X\___,__@
”\(,,,)\Y\\(,,,)–‘

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 11 2025 16:47 utc | 295

@ steel_porcupine | Jun 11 2025 16:47 utc | 301
And here I was thinking it was just random characters as a sarcastic retort to Derek Henry’s dopey image.

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 11 2025 16:58 utc | 296

malenkov @303
Looks more recognizable with a fixed-pitch font.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jun 11 2025 17:03 utc | 297

Posted by: Savonarole | Jun 11 2025 13:19 utc | 236
> There is even a word describing the “Russia weak but Russia in Lisbon tomorrow” discourse : Russophrenia.
> It fits that psyop like a glove.
Hm, -phrenia means something of a mind, so Russophrenia would mean what, a Russian mind?
That is one pretty odd fit IMO. But hey, it is creative, as long as the word schizophrenia is just a soundbite you can slice and dice and resample to fit whatever.
Remarkable how a creativity can fly high when the knowledge is not interfering.

Posted by: hopehely | Jun 11 2025 17:06 utc | 298

Even if you are not religious, this is something to think about:
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Not-Judging
Too much judgment of value… Yes, another judgment of value.

Posted by: Caution | Jun 11 2025 17:16 utc | 299

What’s with all the chatter over escalation dominance?!
Simple logic indicates that NATO does NOT have escalation dominance. Why?
If NATO ‘escalates’ as some would have it, then one would also assume the escalation is exercised to achieve an end wherein escalation is no longer required or ceases to be effective. So… If NATO ‘escalates’ and Russia’s response, or lack of, is such that NATO has to keep ‘escalating’, then it certainly appears that NATO’s escalations are endless provocations, not any form of dominance. Provocation dominance is not a strategy, it’s a tactic, and it’s not yielding NATOs desired effective ‘dominance’

Posted by: Spinworthy | Jun 11 2025 17:46 utc | 300