Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 8, 2025
Ukraine Open Thread 2025-126

News & views related to the war in Ukraine …

Comments

Hey “Peter”, what’s your favorite word for the Chinese?

Posted by: Suresh | Jun 8 2025 23:52 utc | 101

Posted by: Skiffer | Jun 8 2025 23:21 utc | 93
RE:
<< I would never in a million years say that Ukrainians have no choice, no autonomy, but to dwell under tyranny---imposed by the U.S.-led West on them---and therefore to pick up arms in service to that tyranny and die for it too. I do see Ukrainians as agents of action for their own cause. In critical ways *every day* Ukrainians are opting not to abide by this West-amped tyranny (of the neo-Nazi regime in Kiev.) Even if we'll never read about these figures & their experiences in the typical Regime Media outlets, for obvious reasons, you and I both know that this is happening. Nonetheless, Ukrainians in the non-liberated regions are dwelling under martial law, and it's a take-no-prisoners gambit. That does not mean ordinary Ukrainians lack agency or autonomy. They're working w/ what they've got. Their options are limited.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 8 2025 23:52 utc | 102

In response to Skarnkai@94,
To be fair, it was steel_porcupine that introduced the term protest into the mix, while I used the term resistance. I absolutely agree with you about protests — since they are a formal demonstration of a position, to draw attention to a cause or grievance via public display, they should be conducted in cooperation with government authority to avoid situations where a third party ends up using them for their own ends in a destabilizing fashion. If Ukrainians went out to protest against the draft, I’d shake my head in disbelief at their persisting naivete. But, in the decade-long process of reforming the Ukrainian military apparatus, to its current ghoul-like apparition, where people are packed and prepared like meat to be ground up for a lost cause, there have been plenty of people who have resisted and undermined this process in various ways, some more disruptive than others. As the situation has escalated to where we are now, I had initially expected this resistance to similarly escalate, for the same obvious reason that I would expect war refugees in Europe to resist similar treatment in their host countries — people generally don’t want to be exterminated. Now, while the main-character syndrome you describe does apply to our modern atomized societies, migrant communities are from experience very tightly knit in sticking together and sticking up for one another, in light of the “outsider” status that many of them have in their host countries, and in reflecting their countries of origin where this atomization may not be as pronounced. What’s more, a shared crisis, rather than a personal one like falling victim to a serial killer, tends to revive some of that communal survival instinct even in modern, urban populations. While Ukrainian ТЦК select and stalk lone victims much like a serial killer would, they do so in broad daylight drawing public ire as part of the process, and the fruits of their labor are smeared over public spaces in the exponentially growing cemeteries all across Ukraine. I would think that, in any corner of the world, no matter how low the communal spirit might be, if a such a serial killer was on the loose, striking in broad daylight and killing so many that the state in question struggled to bury the victims, “someone else” would quickly turn to “I’m next” in people’s minds, and some effort would be made to band together.

Posted by: Skiffer | Jun 9 2025 0:04 utc | 103

Bad news about big serge’s article on ukraine
“It is probably not a good sign when an article has to begin with an editorial note that breaks the fourth wall, but here we are. I have analyses of the frontline in Ukraine and a new entry in our naval history series currently in the works, but I’ve been derailed by a challenge that emerged from Twitter”
But as I start to browse the new post, I can’t help feeling that his discussion o preemptive vs preventive wars, and about terms of exchange and resources… And finally also a major question about reservoirs of manpower and logistical resources and when to use them .
It’s pure gold for reviewing the past and consider the future of current conflicts
https://bigserge.substack.com/p/overthrowing-fate-barbarossa-revisted

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 9 2025 0:09 utc | 104

In response to steel_porcupine@101,
Fair enough, then I see nothing left to split hairs over. 🙂 A cousin of mine lived in Odessa with her two sons. She took off for Europe with the first refugee wave, while her eldest son stayed behind for a brief time to get everything sorted for an “extended vacation” — he didn’t waste any time, less than a month. Her youngest however dallied, his girl didn’t want to leave, didn’t want him to leave… Fuck knows. First year it was fine, second year he had to hide like a hunted animal, then they caught him, sent him to basic training. He’s a computer geek with a bad back, a hernia, totally unfit to lift heavy boxes, never mind anything else. A week into training his body gave out, they had to perform some surgery on him, now he’s writing letters from a hospital bed. The only words of comfort to this whole situation that I could think of, was that at least he’s so obviously unfit even the Ukrainians can’t find an excuse to cart him off to the front lines, and pray he doesn’t get better. It’s frustrating, and I can understand the feeling of powerlessness and don’t expect heroism or martyrdom from ordinary people, but at the back of my mind there’s also the overwhelming urge to slap my forehead at how detached from reality some people are, not only in Ukraine, but everywhere, including Russia. How some people respond to mortal threat, what their automatic responses are like when death is at the door. That video from the beach in Sevastopol comes to mind, where people get showered with cluster rounds, because it’s a perfect illustration. A father covering his child with his body, young guys pulling old women to run along with them — people helping each other and in so doing saving themselves.

Posted by: Skiffer | Jun 9 2025 0:31 utc | 105

I hope his girl who almost got him send to the frontlines went herself and got killed.
Justice must be seen.
Posted by: Skiffer | Jun 9 2025 0:31 utc | 104

Posted by: Surferket | Jun 9 2025 0:34 utc | 106

@62
Some of my ancestors came to NYC, USA from the Irish famine. My maternal family bible includes a tin type of an Irish immigrant Union soldier killed at First Bull Run July 1861…. a later photo in the Bible is of an Irish American US Marine killed at belleau Woods in WW I.
We blighted Irish settled well in US before the deep state coup.

Posted by: addy | Jun 9 2025 0:36 utc | 107

If there was a good time to target central government institutions now is it, if only to positively demonstrate Kievs inability to defend itself. Might provoke a political crisis. It’s not like they have any popularity in ukraine to protect or any hope of avoiding negative reactions in anything they do.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jun 9 2025 0:36 utc | 108

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 9 2025 0:09 utc | 103
RE: Big Serge’s post
<< His post is thoughtfully rendered and quite detailed, with many forays into possibilities. I wonder, though, at so much perseveration on not just the past but specifically WWII when elucidating Project Ukraine. Yes, I know the continental land-mass is geographically at least the same, terrain-wise, even though the land-mass is no longer the same as far as nation-states are concerned---but beyond that the differences so radically outweigh the superficial similarities that one wonders why using WWII as a touchstone, if not a cornerstone, is is critical. I can accept Project Ukraine as emanating in a sliding-scale sort of way from the Cold War aftermath of WWII, but so many unexpected world-changing events occurred during that timeframe, introducing so many countervailing variables, that it is difficult to see how 'if Barbarossa had been x, y & z then p, q & r might have happened' really matters regarding the 21st Century proxy war in Ukraine between the U.S.-led NATO states and Russia.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 0:37 utc | 109

@PeterAU1
Fuck off Troll.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Jun 9 2025 0:38 utc | 110

“US has given the go-ahead to remove Zelensky from power – former Ukrainian PM Azarov”
And then Alexander Mercouris hears from a trusted source that Putin is asking a committee for permission to target the Top Terrorist. Very convenient.
Hmmm. I sense a false flag coming up.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 9 2025 0:40 utc | 111

Posted by: Skarnkai | Jun 8 2025 23:30 utc | 94
George Orwell pointed to this in Animal farm with the sheep that bleat “Four legs good two legs bad” then reverse that later when the pigs start walking on two feet themselves and having soirees with farmers in the district in the farmhouse. It’s the same in 1984 where the proletariat class (like the sheep again) are considered no problem to Big Brother since they have alcohol and pornography etc and are incapable of thinking of starting a revolution in the British-based dystopia Oceania. Animal farm was originally about the USSR but 1984 show that he sees this the same in the UK as well. The 2 minutes of hate each day in 1984 is ‘groupthink’ where the proletariat mass are propagandised each day by filling their minds with hate against the newest enemy that Big Brother needs to have.

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 0:43 utc | 112

Posted by: Skiffer | Jun 9 2025 0:31 utc | 104
RE: yes
<< And Skiffer, I want to say I did not intend to diminish the grit of Ukrainians who oppose what has happened to their country when I used the word "protest" while ago instead of "resistance." I truly meant "resistance," and I just want to say I honor how robustly the spirit of resistance does indeed live viscerally within people even when they have to bide their time, on account of repressions, waiting for the circumstances to be right, before they can express it. My niece, a Millennial, was dating a guy in Odessa whose family owned a bakery, and she spent a lot of time there w/ him. He got out in that first wave w/ his mom, and they joined my niece in the Netherlands---but the dad stayed w/ the bakery. He's 58 years old. It's scary.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 0:51 utc | 113

@102 Skiffer I generally agree that the immigrant communities will not be as easily pressganged into fighting a war.
As for Ukrainians they don’t have many options to be fair. Most of those with foresight left the country before the war started, and now the borders are mined and or guarded. At this juncture hunkering down and staying as hidden as possible is probably the best move if you can hold out for up to 2 more years. Best to wait for liberation by the Russian army or the collapse of the Kiev regime.
Most of those striking out are likely in the nothing left to lose category like bereaved family members. Organizing resistance is hard in a near total surveillance state.

Posted by: Skarnkai | Jun 9 2025 0:54 utc | 114

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 9 2025 0:40 utc | 110
RE: Mercouris claims Russia given permission
<< I responded to this earlier: Permission given by whom-? France began providing security services for Bankhova after Collective Biden clocked out. If the U.S. wants Zelensky gone, shouldn't the U.S. manage it-? Or "give permission" to Ukrainian resistance to do so-? Why saddle Russia w/ assassinating a head of state-? Isn't that enforcing a *bad look* on Russia-? "Here, Russia. This guy's a problem for us. Can you do us a solid-?" Why would Russia help the U.S. get rid of its proxy-? If the proxy is so much trouble, shouldn't Russia allow the U.S. to figure out a way-? Posted by: The Busker | Jun 8 2025 14:53 utc | 15
RE: Mercouris claims that permission may soon be given for Putin to take out top people in Ukraine's administration
<< Permission given by whom-? France began providing security services for Bankhova after Collective Biden clocked out. If the U.S. wants Zelensky gone, shouldn't they manage it-? Or "give permission" to Ukrainian resistance to do so-? Why saddle Russia w/ assassinating a head of state-?

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 0:55 utc | 115

BTW: the NBA is fire tonight. SGA, the MVP, running away w/ it. The *stuff* is tight as they say.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 0:56 utc | 116

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 9 2025 0:40 utc | 110
Posted by: The Busker | Jun 8 2025 14:53 utc | 15

RE: Mercouris claims Putin has permission
<< The post from Medvedev I want to see: "Russia has given the U.S. *permission* to target the Top Terrorist"

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 1:04 utc | 117

Why saddle Russia w/ assassinating a head of state-?
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 0:55 utc | 114
I guess I wasn’t clear. What I meant was that the US is ready to take out Zelensky, so they will.
I’m guessing that whoever gave Alexander that “information” was setting up the narrative that we will be saturated with- that Putin ordered the hit on Churchill the Second.
Getting Alexander to report it will divide the supporters of Russia, and get us all to arguing about whodunnit.
I don’t actually believe that Putin is asking for permission from anyone, because I don’t believe that lawyer Putin would order a hit.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 9 2025 1:04 utc | 118

Skiffer- use paragraphs. I won’t, and nor will others, read a wall of text.
I actually don’t care where you separate your text, just press enter a few times as you’re typing.

Posted by: Merv Ritchie | Jun 9 2025 1:23 utc | 119

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 9 2025 1:04 utc | 117
RE: taking out The Terrorist—is this a game of Telephone-?
<< Got it. But examine the earlier post #15 from our colleague @The Busker "A source close to Alexander Mercouris claims that permission may soon be given for Putin to take out top people in Ukraine's administration." Note: "may soon be given for Putin to take out top people..." You heard it *one* way, The Busker heard it *another* way-? It is weird to think that VVP would see some perk or some 'up' side in being granted permission by the U.S. to remove The Terrorist when then the U.S. would turn around and loudly/publicly eviscerate VVP for assassinating a head of state. Besides which, Zelensky seems more of a problem for the U.S. than for Russia. Kiev's curators are problematic for Russua but not to an extent that Russia can't manage by taking care of business on the battlefield. Additionally, the U.S. could have covertly assassinated Zelensky at any time and laid the blame on Russia. Why now-? Moreover, why would Russia quietly permit the blame to be laid on them-? The construct is nonsensical enough that I question Mercouris's *trusted* source.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 1:28 utc | 120

I actually listened to Alexander also. He didn’t say that Russia was asking the US for permission.
He said there was some special committee in the Politburo that was set up just for that purpose.
OK, that sounds almost as stupid, now that I repeat it. Maybe I’m mangling it. But for sure, he wasn’t asking the US for permission.
And why now for the US? Who knows? Most likely Zelensky has outlived his usefulness. The US has a history of turning on former allies and killing them, sometimes destroying their own country while they’re at it.
In the case of Ukraine, the destruction of the country came first, but that’s just details.
Maybe all of it is bullshit. We’ll just have to wait and see.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 9 2025 1:50 utc | 121

And he didn’t actually name Zelensky. He said that they would go after the people responsible for the terrorism being used on Russia.
I assumed Budanov when I was listening.
But then just when someone posted that the US wanted Zelensky gone, I put two and two together. It’s possible I got nine, instead of four.
It’s just that, as an American, I am used to being lied to and manipulated, so I figured they might be setting up the narrative.
Apologies for my flight of fancy.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 9 2025 1:56 utc | 122

@Don Firineach | Jun 9 2025 0:38 utc, who said “Fuck off Troll” to the PeterAU1 imposter.
Well-done, Don.

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Jun 9 2025 1:59 utc | 123

…some special committee in the Politburo that was set up just for that purpose.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 9 2025 1:50 utc | 120

Politburo was the organ of the CPSU Central Committee.
Way back when.

Posted by: Rutte | Jun 9 2025 1:59 utc | 124

Good to see and be reminded that not all Europeans support the western elites’ warparty…
TNW: Berlin Backlash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKeSoUHOTNc
“Germans revolt over military aid to Ukraine.”
TNW: ‘Stop World War III Now!’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx0I6mfpbnZ0
“Spain explodes in rage over EU-NATO war-spending frenzy!”

Posted by: JohnGilberts | Jun 9 2025 2:02 utc | 125

Russia spends $200M sending missiles into Ukraine and burn a bunch of factories, and in the same period of time Ukraine spends $200k sending a cheap ass drones into Russia and burning the same amount of factories. Idk but it seems like the math just doesnt add up. If Russia was able to figure a way to stop those drones they would have done it by now, its been 3 years. These UA drones are still very rudimentary from a aeronautic standpoint, they haven’t even started to get better, sure their guidance system is second to none cause its made by Nato but still.

Posted by: Clown Fatigue | Jun 9 2025 2:05 utc | 126

Ballistic missiles on the way to Kiev, cruise missiles in the air as well.
I have always thought Putin may very well want to take Zelensky alive since if there is a trial in Russia or Russian occupied Ukraine after the war, he is the person that can be needled who has a lot of responsibility in causing the disaster and manipulation of Ukraine, and could also expose the relationship with the US and NATO.
Emotionally driven vengeance may be what some want in seeing him killed but that would destroy a lot of important information that Russia could expose to the world irrespective of whether the Western ms media wants it or not.

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 2:05 utc | 127

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jun 9 2025 1:50 utc | 120
RE: is Mercouris blowing smoke/muddying the waters regarding permission to off The Terrorist
<< The U.S. has proven itself to be pretty solidly a collection of lying, cheating, cynically back-stabbing dogs, often w/ murderous intent. The past couple of months have cemented that pretty dramatically. As helmed by DJT, the U.S. has reached peak untrustworthiness: how could Russia enter into a Pinky Swear sort of fig-leaf arrangement where the U.S. *assassinates* The Terrorist but Russia assumes the *blame*-? It's like something readymade for Reuters. Imagined conversation: "Vladimir, look--we're in a bind. Mi6 is refusing to assassinate The Terrorist and Mossad says they've got too much on their plate right now to do it. Here in the U.S., we can't figure out how to assassinate The Terrorist, because Macron might get angry at us and Lindsey Anne might howl and also a federal court w/ an Obama judge might block us. But if *you* were to do it, that would get us out of this bind. Vlad, can I count on you-?" Listen, I'm not disputing what you heard or your reasons for posting it. My issue is w/ Mercouris's *trusted* source.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 2:08 utc | 128

TNW: ‘Stop World War III Now!’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx0I6mfpbZ0
“Spain explodes in rage over EU-NATO war-spending frenzy!”
(url corrected from #124)

Posted by: JohnGilberts | Jun 9 2025 2:14 utc | 129

really matters regarding the 21st Century proxy war in Ukraine between the U.S.-led NATO states and Russia.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 0:37 utc | 108
The points I mentioned (not only for Ukraine , but also china etc)
The logic of preemptive wars vs preventive wars. Particularly the case for preventive wars and errors in evaluating.
The weight of resources and dependences.
Hindsight 20/20 on cards not played earlier. I often praised Putin for doing the bare minimum summer/autumn 2022, that kept a healthy and wealthy society in RF , what tradeoffs ?
Still didn’t reprise the text so it may get boring in the middle but I thought some sections made us reflect.

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 9 2025 2:15 utc | 130

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 2:08 utc | 127
The US may want to assassinate ‘the terrorist’ however because that is exactly what it did with Saddam Hussein (conveniently hung) and Osama Bin Laden. I think this was done because either could have exposed their former relations with the US and how the US functions in the world.

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 2:21 utc | 131

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 2:05 utc | 126
RE: taking The Terrorist alive, instead of assassinating him
<< Kiev's curators are more instrumental to the terrorism enacted against Russia. *Ukraine* is a proxy. Go after the puppetmaster, not the puppet in other words. Which Russia has been doing, especially along the lines of economic attrition, not to mention depleting the stores of Western weaponry right and left. With so much momentum on the LOC right now, and a new offensive phasing up in Zaparhozia, it would be strange for significant braintrust to be devoted to targeted high-level assassinations. Cui bono-? Obviously this is a tactic Israel has employed, but it seems not to fit w/ Russia's way. The West salivates over *decapitation strikes*(TM), almost to a James Bondian degree, so I wonder if the notion of assassinating The Terrorist is a way for the UK media especially to get excited about Project Ukraine again. An uptempo assault on the power grid---more of an Electric War--would be decisive and potentially devastating to Kiev. Relentless ballistic attention to Ukrainian training centers where NATO mercs are congregating in great numbers could also make for useful targets. Both of these actions help alter combat dynamics in Russia's favor. Assassinating The Terrorist or a couple Terrorists seems a low-gain parlor trick.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 2:25 utc | 132

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 2:21 utc | 130
RE: the U.S. assassinated Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden
<< Roger that. Because of the U.S.'s history of assassinating foes, I can certainly see the U.S. reaching for that Playbook once more. But not somehow weirdly foisting off on Russia the responsibility to facilitate the assassination, as the interpretation from The Busker in #15 of what Mercouris said implied: "A source close to Alexander Mercouris claims that permission may soon be given for Putin to take out top people in Ukraine's administration." Adding to the nonsensical aspect of it all is the fact that in the eyes of the West Zelensky is Mother Teresa in an olive-drab t-shirt. The U.S. could *get away with* targeting Osama bin Laden, because he was considered a major foe of the West---but assassinating a paragon of democracy, who received a standing ovation when he attended the Pope's funeral, could land even the U.S. in a docket @ The Hague.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 2:38 utc | 133

Sorry Merv@118, I thought I was using paragraphs and writing concisely to the standard that I’m used to, 300-400 words. As I got responses from the people that I was in conversation with, while you or others were not really intended recipients, your threat of me being ignored over formatting is hollow, but I’ll keep your critique in mind and try my best.
Glad to hear your niece’s date got out in time steel_porcupine@112, but sorry to hear about the baker dad and hope no harm comes to him. Related to what Skarnkai wrote @113, foresight is often treated as a scarce commodity among Russians, going by the countless proverbs decrying its absence, and there may be some truth to it. Decisions made on the hope that things will turn out alright somehow, Русский авось, feel more tragic because of their negative outcomes being completely predictable and avoidable. Even the SMO, although I accept the many valid arguments for why it wasn’t started sooner, carries a hint of a belated recognition of an unavoidable end to a predictable process, at a potentially higher cost than otherwise could have been.
While Putin has mused in public about reacting sooner, Russia at least has options to achieve its objectives and pursues them in a way that at the very minimum maintains space for maneuver, if not expands it. When talking about the Ukrainian state’s options, or the options of Ukrainian civvies, or about European elites, in the context of current avenues for civilian resistance, or of the future potential of press-ganging migrants into armed service, reacting appropriately during the overture while there’s still room to do so, and doing the same once shit has properly hit the fan, are entirely different conversations. Have to admit, I got sucked into that article re-imagining Barbarossa, and that seemed to have been the key take-away of German failure there as well — belated response to unexpected failure. Russians attribute авось to themselves as a national trait, but it probably transcends nationality.

Posted by: Skiffer | Jun 9 2025 2:41 utc | 134

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 2:25 utc | 131
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 2:38 utc | 133
I fully agree with both of your posts.
Do you think Russia is possibly wanting to take the terrorist alive too for the information in his head – as I do?

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 2:46 utc | 135

It looks like Putin intends to allow Russia to burn down along with Ukraine.

Posted by: IAIB | Jun 9 2025 2:54 utc | 136

Posted by: Jason | Jun 9 2025 2:33 utc | 132
“Using nuclear weapons against Ukraine can drive away another 10 million or more out of Ukraine. This allows Russia to repopulate Ukraine with a friendly or own population”.
Amazing how some would think differently if it was their lives under threat.
So you are an advocate for genocide and mass slaughter? Prey tell, how are you going to sift out the pro-Russian Ukrainians that live in Ukraine from the anti-Russian Ukrainians? Putin and Russia have always been hesitant to carpet bomb Ukrainian civilians for that very reason. Are you at all aware of that or does you simplistic black and white view think all Ukrainians are a unified group that need to be eliminated like Hitler’s Nazis saw the Jews, or the current Israelis see Palestinians?

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 2:55 utc | 137

Posted by: IAIB | Jun 9 2025 2:54 utc | 136
How so? You present absolutely no argument or even theory that would support your claim.

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 2:57 utc | 138

Posted by: Skiffer | Jun 9 2025 2:41 utc | 134
RE: Русский авось
<< Well said. Especially this "Even the SMO, although I accept the many valid arguments for why it wasn't started sooner, carries a hint of a belated recognition of an unavoidable end to a predictable process, at a potentially higher cost than otherwise could have been." My friends on the peninsula were Ukrainian civvies until March 2014 and the referendum, but they suffered plenty of familial strife for years after, even to the point of divorce, because their fellow Ukrainian civvies---family members---were on board w/ the Poroshenko govt. This was the essence of a civil war. Tania's dad was a Russian military man from Sevastopol, and her mother was an ethnic Ukrainian from Kherson, so her ancestry was a blend of both Russia and Ukraine in ways I found quite typical in Crimea. Even culinary conversations trended toward what was a *Russian* way of preparing a certain dish or what was a *Ukrainian* way of doing so, both distinctions fondly recounted. Former Ukrainian civvies who had voted to *return* to Russia were at peace with their blended heritage and of course absolutely embraced it. What could be more natural-? But the plight of those who had not been able to *return themselves*, as the peninsula had, weighed heavily on them.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 3:13 utc | 139

English Outsider 3
Excellent analysis EO; the Russophobia will be hard to overcome, thanks to the information – or rather disinformation spread in the media, movies, literature. Lots of lies, falsehoods across all of Europe. Which brings me to think about the novel by Umberto Eco – The Cemetery in Prague. It is fascinating to think of that novel as an allegory (or metapher, I am not a scholar of language and semantics so I may be forgiven not to know the difference between allegory and metapher) of current events.
The lies and falsehoods are also subject of Eco’s lecture in his “Auf Schultern von Riesen”. In one of these he also brings up the falsehood of the “Protocols of Zion” – with the picture of one of the editions title page, which is quite interesting. I think that the book with that picture is not available otherwise, because of governments censorship (meaning not available in libraries or in bookstores or on Amazon). (as an aside – was Umberto Eco an ‘anti-semite’?)
But, not all is lost, my Outsider friend! The Berliner Zeitung shows some independence and actually aims at the foolishness of the warmongering in the West, in European capitals, in Brussels. (second and third link below)
I especially like your observation –
“That will be blowback from the information war indeed. Our most effective arm of war – the West is weak militarily and economically but a giant in propaganda – will be the instrument of our own defeat.”
A few years ago I commented about the blow back in the media and the governments which will eventually ‘climb down’ from the lies, from Russophobia – I did not imagine that it will take that long for the process to begin, and that a war may yet be fought over the truth, rather than peaceful ‘climb-down’. It still possible that the media and ruling circles will give up the struggle and simply disappear in thin air, rather than admit their complicity, their ‘agency’ in horrible mistakes which caused so much pain, so much death.
One example of a ‘climb-down’ is the recent interview by Matthew Miller (first link below) – former spokesman for Biden / Blinken, who admitted that he knew he was telling lies, but he had to toe the government line ( someone correctly called it ‘the Nuremberg’ defence).
Thanks to technology the war’s ‘playing field’ is a bit more level – the ‘giant in propaganda’ is not anymore the monopoly of the mass media – the effect of access to information in internet is maybe analogous to the invention of small drones on the battle field.
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/matthew-miller-biden-administration-liar/
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/geopolitik/raketen-fuer-den-frieden-wie-firmen-wie-blackrock-und-morgan-stanley-vom-krieg-profitieren-li.2331213
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/geopolitik/bruessel-so-bereitet-die-eu-den-grossen-krieg-vor-ukraine-li.2330084

Posted by: fanto | Jun 9 2025 3:14 utc | 140

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 2:46 utc | 135
RE: do you think Russia wants to take The Terrorist alive in order to tap the info in his head-?
<< Debriefing Zelensky could no doubt yield some gems, just don't do it in public. He's too much of a grandstander. More than anything, though, I'd think it disadvantageous for the U.S., with Russia's permission, or Russia, with the U.S.'s permission, to make a martyr out of him via a targeted assassination. Such a thing could fuel a run-amok cult. As every city in the U.S. now has a Holocaust Memorial Museum, no matter how small the city, I could see a time when every city in the U.S. will also have a Hero Zelensky Museum. In fact, some cities will have their Holocaust Memorial Museum right next to the Hero Zelensky Museum, and there won't be anything else in the city but a CBD Pharmacy. /s

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 3:23 utc | 141

At this point this war is boring Putin are only making Russia look weak, allowing Ukraine toy with his country

Posted by: Beta Josh | Jun 9 2025 3:36 utc | 142

@ skiffer – i certainly appreciate your posts and always have here at moa… cheers..

Posted by: james | Jun 9 2025 3:44 utc | 143

Cucktin should be remove

Posted by: Goob | Jun 9 2025 4:10 utc | 144

Posted by: English Outsider | Jun 8 2025 13:53 utc | 3
English Outsider, I thank you. Before I became a US citizen I was a British one. I saw the Queen in her and my own youth down in my native country and she was beautiful in a white polka dot dress riding up and down between rows of New Zealand schoolchildren on the Auckland Domain. A magical time — she and Prince Philip standing up in the rear of their Landrover, came that close. We were the Commonwealth then, not colonials. It is like yesterday.
I will copy down your words.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 9 2025 4:14 utc | 145

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 3:23 utc | 141
Thanks for the sane and intelligent reply. I had no idea that Zelensky is still so big in the US among the people. In Australia where I live there is certainly anti-Russian sentiment driven by the media and politicians which is absurd given we live so far away from Russia or Ukraine and have a miniscule trade relationship with both. I also see far less signs of yellow and blue ribbons displayed outside people’s homes – there has never been many – and a lot of rethinking going on concerning China in terms of seeing it less as a bogeyman because US foreign policy says it is. There’s also a lot of discussion about blindly following the US due to Trump, but some of the politicians even in the incumbent government are still beholden to the US dictate and military allegiance to the US.

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 4:18 utc | 146

…March 2014 and the referendum, but they suffered plenty of familial strife for years after, even to the point of divorce, because their fellow Ukrainian civvies—family members—were on board w/ the Poroshenko govt. This was the essence of a civil war.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 3:13 utc | 139

OT, but many parallels in terms of people’s lives, destinies and history repeating …. In the early years after Declaration Of Independence, some 1/3 of the colonists remained loyal to the crown, 1/3 embraced revolution and 1/3 were undecided. Eventually, the Revolutionists became brutal to the Loyalist to the point that many had to escape the terror and return to England and some went up north to (I think) Nova Scotia.
Balkan wars in the 90s another wave of broken families, lives and forced migrations.

Posted by: magarac | Jun 9 2025 4:23 utc | 147

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 8 2025 20:26 utc | 57
Peter, that sounds very much like you, and I cannot think why anyone else would profit imitating you, but more power to them if it is so. And it is to your credit that we are cautious not wanting to be disappointed by a substitute.
Welcome back. I remember you had an unique regime, could never follow wellmeaning advice here because your constitution would not accept it.
We have missed you.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 9 2025 4:30 utc | 148

Ethnic Ukrainians will never forget or forgive Russia. Their hate will not cease. Living next to them is dangerous. Replacing them is the only way.
Posted by: Jason | Jun 9 2025 2:33 utc | 132

And that right there is exactly the same logic that Israel is applying to their own near neighbours.
At the local level it does have a kind of compelling totality … but … what if everyone started doing it?

Posted by: Tel | Jun 9 2025 4:42 utc | 149

Meanwhile 🇺🇦 is taking out 🇷🇺 industrial infrastructure bit by bit….

Posted by: Yalovenko | Jun 9 2025 4:53 utc | 150

Posted by: magarac | Jun 9 2025 4:23 utc | 147
RE: people’s lives, destinies & history repeating
Good quote: “…after Declaration Of Independence, some 1/3 of the colonists remained loyal to the crown, 1/3 embraced revolution and 1/3 were undecided.”
BTW: during the Colonial period, still under the Crown, the Puritans of the Massachusetts Bay Colony (1628-1684) drove the Quakers out of Massachusetts and into Rhode Island, an ethnic cleansing in effect of those who professed Quakerism.
The Boston Martyrs were 4 Quakers hung publicly in 1660 in Boston Commons as heretics for practicing their religious beliefs.
The earth has perhaps only known peace when human groups were scattered far enough away from each other that they could not conveniently engage in war, though maybe the Vikings disprove that.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 5:01 utc | 151

Posted by: Yalovenko | Jun 9 2025 4:53 utc | 150
I suggest that you look at Ukraine’s own map to see who is really taking out who’s industrial and other infrastructures. Then ask yourself if 10 is really a smaller number than 1.
https://liveuamap.com

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 5:04 utc | 152

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 8 2025 22:25 utc | 82
“Believing in family, I was played for a sucker after I became ill. Prior to that, I had transferred the house fully into here name so the bank could not sell it to recover any debts that were in my name.
Got played for an idiot when I was very ill.”
Didn’t your daughter and son-in-law step in to help you?

Posted by: Paranaense | Jun 9 2025 5:13 utc | 153

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 4:18 utc | 146
RE: Ukrainization in the U.S.
<< Interesting to hear of perceptions about Ukraine in Oz. Where the diaspora is large in the U.S., like in greater Chicago or the Brighton Beach area of Brooklyn, Ukrainization has occurred, by which I mean the civic embrace of the history of Ukraine practically devoid of Russian or Soviet influences, except in negative ways. Churches and local celebrations, for instance, commemorate some of the problematic Bandera-era Nazi sympathizers. The ambassador in Ukraine's Chicago embassy tweets support for such events. This follows a pattern seen in universities too, where Russian Studies Programs were swamped with curricula that focused on Ukrainian identity formation apart from anything having to do w/ Russia or the Soviet Union or the Kievan Rus. So a civic embrace of Ukraine entails a revised history of the place. The way colleagues on MoA comprehend Ukraine and Russia's historical relationship w/ the land we call Ukraine is vastly different from what gets communicated via Ukrainization. The way history texts written before 2014 in the U.S. and the UK describe Russia's relationship with Ukraine is vastly different from what's promulgated through the precepts of Ukrainization. To *Stand With Ukraine* means to stand with an artificially-imposed history---not just a revision but a whole-scale recasting. It is passing strange to say the least when a false history is brought by the diaspora to a completely different, but sympathetic, country and the false history gets absorbed without scrutiny or examination.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 5:21 utc | 154

Prediction: Andrei Belousov will become the next president of the Russian Federation. This article in RT makes it evident why that is likely.
https://www.rt.com/russia/618284-what-russian-generals-are-reading/

Posted by: norecovery | Jun 9 2025 5:48 utc | 155

75% of the bodies immune system is in the large intestine. Nearly any auto immune disease regardless of othe symptoms will strike the large intestine. The last half of the large intestine mainly re-absorbs digestive electrolytes. If that is not functioning correctly there is a large loss of electrolytes.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 8 2025 20:26 utc | 57

Sounds a bit like it could be a food allergy … you can have mild inflammation, especially in the gut, for decades and the symptoms are much like you described … never quite optimal digestion, tiredness, elevated immune response markers, electrolyte imbalance. There’s a cascade of effects … it can build up into a “leaky gut” which in turn triggers more inflammation, sometimes joint pain, similar to arthritis.
Not saying that is the root cause, but at least consider getting some allergy tests done. I agree that doctors are hopeless at tracking this stuff down … problem is that doctors apply a simple mental flowchart to identify all the obvious problems. Fault-finding intermittent or subtle failures in a complex system is hard work, and takes time and a systematic approach.
Doctors don’t remember much from your last visit to your next visit. They don’t read through their own notes because they are always in a rush to turn over the next patient and the next as quick as they can. Seriously, having your own AI agent very soon will be much better than any human doctor. The difficulty is finding someone you can trust to host your sensitive medical data.

Posted by: Tel | Jun 9 2025 6:13 utc | 156

Dubno Airbase in Rivne oblast was hit by 5 Kinzhals, 3 Kaliber missiles and a dozen Geran drones. Whatever the Russians wanted to hit there no longer exists.
https://x.com/AMK_Mapping_/status/1931958986418647506

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 9 2025 6:20 utc | 157

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 5:21 utc | 155
I had no idea that it was like that in the US with the level of support for Ukraine. Thanks for taking the time to explain the situation and why it is like that.
Originally there was a lot of sugary neo ‘left’ wing support here, but I think that has now receded. I call it that because it is not original nor historical left. Australia has very few alternative newspapers to the mainstream nightmares. The Guardian as a bigger player always attracted the left side and progressives, but it caved in to projecting anti-Putin anti-Russian pro-British views very quickly when the SMO started, complete propaganda. I’ve had many doubts about that news source since the SMO started, it has become a wolf in sheep’s clothing, even though it likes to pretend it is the more truthful option.

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 6:27 utc | 158

Well well, US denying Patriots to Ukraine now so massive defeat is predicted. I guess the US finally realised they are not protected since they have run out of Patriots themselves and Hegseth has spilled the beans about the next war on China. Failed another war in Ukraine, but just so long as there is a new war, that is the most important thing.
Posted by: George | Jun 8 2025 22:57 utc | 90

One of the US Patriot PAC-3 was also taken out in Kiev on the night of June 6th. Four launched interceptors missed the target after Iskander flew into the installation.
https://x.com/simpatico771/status/1931723261831713134

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 9 2025 6:27 utc | 159

@ unimperator | Jun 9 2025 6:27 utc | 160 and 158 with reports about the Russian CTO escalation….thanks.
When does Ukraine unconditional surrender come? I hope soon.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 9 2025 6:36 utc | 160

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 9 2025 6:27 utc | 160
It’s probably the last straw and why the US decided it had to stop supplying them. As a system it doesn’t work that well with Russian missiles and exceedingly expensive anyway. Rubio said a couple of weeks ago that they had no more to supply Ukraine as well. People like Brian Berletic and Scott Ritter have been saying for a long time that the US was running its stocks of Patriots down to dangerously low levels as well. And of course they are not much good with hypersonics. I guess this what the Golden Dome announcement was all about, as well as to dispel fears within the public, but it is just sound bites, not a real system and could take years to design and construct. The $175 billion price tag is very likely to be a deposit as well, not the final cost.

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 6:44 utc | 161

Somebody seems eager to report that what happens to them, can happen to others too, or at least to get people thinking about how these accidents happen:
https://www.rt.com/news/618823-us-base-japan-blast/

Posted by: Rubiconned | Jun 9 2025 7:23 utc | 162

Posted by: norecovery | Jun 9 2025 5:48 utc | 156
Thanks for calling attention to that article.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jun 9 2025 7:42 utc | 163

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 5:21 utc | 155
It is passing strange to say the least when a false history is brought by the diaspora to a completely different, but sympathetic, country and the false history gets absorbed without scrutiny or examination.

That the false history gets absorbed without scrutiny or examination means that the penetration of this propaganda is very shallow, very superficial, easy to transform into the opposite.
That’s why propaganda is so noisy, repetitive and loud, that’s why all establishment media and figureheads speak exactly the same sentences, word by word, because the impact of propaganda is widespread yet very superficial. Whatever the message is, it is not really integrated into anyone’s solid understanding.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jun 9 2025 7:51 utc | 164

Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 8 2025 17:12 utc | 36
> Why did you hate the communists?
> Because the TV told you to? The Queen?
His grandpa.
Posted by: hopehely | Jun 8 2025 17:57 utc | 45
__________________________
Growing up in the USA in the Fifties, it was the entire apparatus of government, culture, education, the press, radio, and television, but also the Church and the family.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Jun 9 2025 7:53 utc | 165

5 Kinzhal hypersonic ballistic missiles, 3 Kh-101 cruise missiles and over a dozen Geran-2 drones
Aww. I wanna aweshucks-nic. Gimme aweshucksnics.

Posted by: Mi6 | Jun 9 2025 7:58 utc | 166

…I should add that what’s astounding is not how all-encompassing the conditioning was, but how successfully it has been resurrected and how little resistance we have to it today.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Jun 9 2025 8:02 utc | 167

Ukraine compensation for military deaths – something doesn’t seem to add up:
I was surprised to learn that Ukraine pays around $0.5M to the families of killed soldiers (in contrast, US pays $100k) and also hundreds of thousands for serious disability. Even if many are just considered missing, there are images of expanding cemeteries that suggest acknowledged causalities in the range of 100k or more. That would add up to more than $50B, but the whole Ukraine budget is in the range of $100B and foreign aid is also in that range. It doesn’t seem likely they would pay more than 10-20% of their budget as compensation, so I am not sure how these numbers make sense.

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 8:09 utc | 168

“The main question that I think many have is: why are these degradations of UKR offensive capabilities being done in response to anything? Couldn’t, shouldn’t, they have been done ages ago, just as the normal progression of war (see von Clausewitz, you win a war by preventing your opponent from continuing it out, I guess cease and desist in modern terms)?”
Russia’s opponent is not only the Ukraine, but NATO. Russia wants NATO to break apart and the warmonger-parties in the different NATO-member states to lose their power. This takes time. It is achieved by pumping more NATO taxpayer money into the Ukrainian black hole.

Posted by: Apollyon | Jun 9 2025 8:12 utc | 169

“I was surprised to learn that Ukraine pays around $0.5M to the families of killed soldiers (in contrast, US pays $100k) and also hundreds of thousands for serious disability. Even if many are just considered missing, there are images of expanding cemeteries that suggest acknowledged causalities in the range of 100k or more. That would add up to more than $50B, but the whole Ukraine budget is in the range of $100B and foreign aid is also in that range. It doesn’t seem likely they would pay more than 10-20% of their budget as compensation, so I am not sure how these numbers make sense.”
Quite easy to explain, no? This way they can createa massive bills to explain where all the money went and it likely indeed went to certain families, but guess what: only that fraction the Banderas regime admits to be killed.
They likeyls went through that list of these 6000 soldiers and indeed only a small fraction counts as real, pure blooded Ukrainian.
That’s the thing with fascists and alike since ancient times (fascism is just another of endless many words for the same evil shit):
They even can have something like citizen rights for example. Just a question who you count as as citizen.

Posted by: Beatrice | Jun 9 2025 8:19 utc | 170

Tel | Jun 9 2025 6:13 utc | 157
Citric acid intolerance, saturated fat intolerance. Reaction to the mono and di-glycerides that are in E471 and also found in many seed and nut oils.
Mammal alergy/intolerance due to tick bite Citric acid and saturated fats I now know I have had that for life. Immune reaction from tick bite triggered them into overdrive.
Those food intolerances eliminated virtually all food groups.
I have now regained a little tolerance for saturated fats, mammal products and low citric acid fruit and veg without noticeable immune reaction or gut dysfunction.
Trace amounts of the mono/di-glycerides still tigger skin reaction – hives.
The medical profession is a place of locked in group think, and most people with debilitating auto immune disease are doomed to go through life never being diagnosed nor knowing how to alleviate it as has occurred with me.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 9 2025 8:27 utc | 171

Question .
How soon before back from the dead Peter Au and newly arrived Beatrice lock horns?
A complimentary beverage for who wins this sweepstakes.

Posted by: Barsnack | Jun 9 2025 8:37 utc | 172

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 8:09 utc | 169
You must be another George. I’m the Australian one.
Don’t know whether you saw B’s take on this and the costs. He claimed US$3 million for dead soldiers with the case of the 6,000 bodies to be returned from Russia. It is a lot but it must be Ukrainian law. B said US$ 2.2 billion for the lot. I imagine this is why Ukraine has reneged on taking them from Russia, it doesn’t want to pay the pay the money out. From what understand it has been doing this for a very long time and preferring to keep dead soldiers as ‘missing in action’ rather than report their deaths and pay out any money if it possibly can. No ethics in Ukraine. Maybe that is why they have always said “we don’t count our losses”.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/06/ukraine-cost-of-6000-dead-soldiers-thousands-abducted-children-have-vanished.html

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 8:52 utc | 173

steel_porcupine | Jun 9 2025 1:28 utc | 120
The two Ukrainian telegram channels have proved to be by far the most accurate source of information in the Ukraine theater. The get information from the ‘presidents office’ and that is virtually always accurate.
UK rather than US CIA have a very extensive intel operation in Russia. Much information is passed on to the presidents office by MI6. Russia appears to have taken out several high level MI6 sources since early 2022 but some information, mostly lower level does still come through.
UK is able to pull of many terrorist and sabotage operations within Russia due to many years (no doubt going back to the early 90’s) of setting up an extensive network of assets within Russia.
It seems the decision to take out the top teir of individuals/officials in Ukraine has been made.
Martyanov believes this will occur some time after the next security council meeting.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 9 2025 8:54 utc | 174

More on Dubno airfield.
There’s a better-than-decent chance the Dubno airfield was hosting Nato personnel and equipment and scarce Euro-Nato missile stockpiles, to be built up as an operational airfield for Nato aircraft. I don’t think RUAF would waste a large amount of munitions for no solid gains, so they must have hurt something in Dubno.

The increased Russian strikes on the Lvov and Rovno regions suggest a possible shift in target selection strategy. While earlier attacks on western areas were occasional and usually focused on large logistical sites (warehouses, communication hubs, power infrastructure), what’s happening now looks like a deliberate campaign against targets that were likely avoided before — possibly due to resource conservation, political restraint, or lack of immediate operational relevance.
In this context, the strike on the airfield in Dubno (Rovno region) stands out. Just a couple of years ago, this site was being considered as a potential location for stationing Western aircraft, including F-16s — thanks to its safe distance from the front line and proximity to logistics routes through Poland.
If the strike did indeed hit Dubno airfield, it points to two things. First, there’s a systematic clearing of infrastructure that could potentially be used for deploying Western aviation.
Second, the Russian side appears to have confirmed intel showing that these sites are already hosting — or are being prepped to host — equipment and personnel.
Also worth noting: “Geran” drones and missile systems are now being used in this region with a density previously seen mostly in strikes on eastern and central Ukraine.
If this trend continues, the zone from Lvov to Lutsk and farther west will start losing its logistical and operational safety, which will severely complicate the integration and coordination of Western-supplied hardware.

https://x.com/distant_earth83/status/1931994765073023341

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 9 2025 8:57 utc | 175

@George | Jun 9 2025 6:44 utc | 162

People like Brian Berletic and Scott Ritter have been saying for a long time that the US was running its stocks of Patriots down to dangerously low levels as well. And of course they are not much good with hypersonics. I guess this what the Golden Dome announcement was all about, as well as to dispel fears within the public, but it is just sound bites, not a real system and could take years to design and construct. The $175 billion price tag is very likely to be a deposit as well, not the final cost.

The name “Golden Dome” gives it away. Its only design feature is provide the MIC with a golden dome, i.e. a dome that is showering gold onto them and which is pushed higher as needed by them.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 9 2025 9:00 utc | 176

statesponsors of terrorism (uk/eu)-backed kiev nazi regime fired a himars at a civilian house in kursk, one dead 6 injured.
last week they also fired 2 himars into a neighbourhood, a woman died and a few injured.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Jun 9 2025 9:15 utc | 177

Welcome back Peter. Quite a resurrection. Glad that your health has improved to the extent that you can post here. Your contributions have been sorely missed. There’s something about Australian women, a very special and distinct breed. Cheers

Posted by: ZimZum | Jun 9 2025 9:15 utc | 178

@Gene Poole | Jun 9 2025 8:02 utc | 168

…I should add that what’s astounding is not how all-encompassing the conditioning was, but how successfully it has been resurrected and how little resistance we have to it today.

It is not astounding when everybody overnight were made to carry their own Telescreen mobile phone, pumping instructions 24/7 into their brains and causing the attention span to be not much longer than a tweet.
Add to that that in 2020 the obedience training told you via the same source that whatever you do, do not go near a human, stay at least 2m from him/her and yes, wear a mask. Then in 2022 the Russians were coming “full scale invasion”, there was no way you could do anything else but “stand with Ukraine”, right?
There is nothing astounding about any of this, and I didn’t even mention 911 or 22. July 2011.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 9 2025 9:15 utc | 179

@Apollyon | Jun 9 2025 8:12 utc | 170

Russia’s opponent is not only the Ukraine, but NATO. Russia wants NATO to break apart and the warmonger-parties in the different NATO-member states to lose their power. This takes time. It is achieved by pumping more NATO taxpayer money into the Ukrainian black hole.

Indeed, I agree. This is in my opinion an excellent short summary of the goals of the SMO.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 9 2025 9:19 utc | 180

The European role in the Ukraine conflict is so irrational and defies every trace of common sense, or even survival instinct that it keeps me at a loss of words. Thus, every explanation someone comes up with should be appreciated and carefully scrutinized. Look at this transcript of Marc Sloboda as a guest in today’s Cross Talk:

„The Europeans‘ plan is to do whatever they can to keep the Kiev regime fighting in whatever capacity it can for another five years. Well, they have a fantasy of restarting a military industrial complex, and maybe there will be a change of leadership at that time, more to their favor in the United States. (…)
Their only hope is to provide some political crisis within Russia. That has always been the plan from the beginning. It hasn’t worked so far, it’s unlikely to work, in fact, it will probably achieve the opposite result. But you can’t convince the European political and military elite that banging the head against the wall is not going to change things. They cannot be convinced otherwise. They can’t believe they are losing this war to Russia…“ – „Why can’t they believe that, Marc?…“ „It’s because their identity, their sense of western exceptionalism is tied up in this. They believe they are morally, structurally and societally superior to Russia, and they just can’t accept losing this conflict to Russia.”

Posted by: grunzt | Jun 9 2025 9:23 utc | 181

I haven’t read through all the comments but some observations/thoughts on what is occurring now. After the vaunted but failed southern offensive in 2023 when American investors did not get returns on their investment, the majority of the corporate America power structure swung to the nationalists who saw China as the main threat and wanted to concentrate all resources on bring China down.
The British and Europeans with their meetings late 24 and early 25 of Trump proofing the war on China (it was quite once the southern offensive failed that Trump would be installed as the next facade of the American power structure).
In the US though unlike the first Trump admin where the senate and congress worked publicly to hobble the whitehouse, now it is the entrenched globalist bureaucracy or deep state that is working with the Brits and Europeans to hobble the whitehouse, particularly when it comes to the war against Russia.
Gabbard, appointed CIA director is definately in the nationalist camp, yet it seems like that career CIA officials at lower level were involved in the attack on Russian strategic aviation.
Within the US power structure, the globalist are very much the minority, yet within the bureaucracy, entrenched officials will still be in the globalist camp.
Russia was willing to give the US nationalists a change, hence entering into US nationalist pushed peace negotiations. Now it appears the the Europeans working with remaining core group of US globalists have prevailed. I think this is what the Russian leadership is seeing and will now step things up a notch or two.
Ukraine recently put out a promo video of Ukraine ‘domestic’ cruise missile production starring of course the comedian of Kiev. These were a much smaller missile than the taurus and are I believe from the American company Andural. This is a startup company that kicked off in 2017.
They have put out stuff on a modular missile system which they say is specifically designed for what they call hyper production.
Then there is the taurus which is undergoing a paintjob or whatever to make it a ‘Ukrainian”missile. There is some American technology in them so I assume American tech parts are most likely being replaced by Euro/German tech.
Russia is now moving to targets that will do more collateral damage as the Americans term civilian casualties, but even so, civilian casualties are still exceptionally low.
Several of the recent Russian strikes have resulted in huge fireballs as weapons stockpiles go up.
Back perhaps in later 22 or early twenty three, Nato began using human shields to save military targets from attack. Manufacturing, storage ect in civilian areas. With the missile threat and Brit/German escalation Russia is now hitting the military targets that are behind human shields.
On top of that, it now seems likely that at some point after the next security council meeting, Russia will methodically ‘eliminate’ the top teir of Ukraine officials who have been left untouched up until this point.
This, from the Ukraine TG channel ‘Resident’ is a bit long but will quote the machine translation as it is quite relevant. (‘OP’ is the office of the President)

Our source in the OP said that the President’s Office, together with British intelligence, analyzed possible scenarios for the escalation of the war in Ukraine with the active use of German Taurus missiles, which are being adapted for local production.
The analysis looked at a number of factors, including political decisions, the reaction of the parties to the conflict and the international context, as well as the opinion of the Trump Administration. Basic scenario outlines:
* Limited use of missiles against military targets on the territory of Russia and occupied regions of Ukraine, we can use them to attack military targets. This can minimize the risk of a sharp escalation, as Russia may not consider such strikes as crossing the “red line”. However, Moscow is likely to step up retaliatory strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure and logistics.
* Strikes on Russian border regions. If the Ukrainian Armed Forces use missiles to attack warehouses, headquarters, or logistics centers in Russia’s border regions (for example, Belgorod or Kursk), this may provoke a tougher response from Moscow, including targeted strikes on critical infrastructure in Ukraine or the locations of Western weapons. Russia may refrain from escalating to a direct conflict with NATO, but it will step up its counter-measures.
* Escalation with strikes on strategic targets. The use of missiles to attack key targets, such as the Crimean Bridge or infrastructure in the interior of Russia (for example, Tula, Kaluga), can be perceived as a declaration of war by the EU/Germany. This is fraught with direct involvement of Germany in the conflict, since the missiles require the participation of German specialists for operation. Russia can respond with asymmetric measures, including strikes on Western supplies or even cyber attacks.
•Germany may refuse to supply weapons after Moscow’s retaliatory actions. Berlin may transfer a limited amount of weapons for Ukraine to use in the production of its own missiles. This will maintain the current level of tension, and Ukraine will continue to rely on British Storm Shadow and French SCALP missiles, which are already being actively used but are less effective against certain targets.
• A provocative scenario with an escalation to a conflict with NATO
In the event of successful strikes by modified Taurus missiles against strategic targets in Russia, this could lead to retaliatory actions against NATO countries, especially if Moscow perceives this as Germany’s direct involvement in the war. This could result in the activation of NATO’s Article 5 and the escalation of the conflict into a regional or even global conflict. However, analysts in Ukraine consider this scenario unlikely due to deterrent factors such as Russia’s nuclear capabilities. https://t.me/rezident_ua/26328

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 9 2025 9:42 utc | 182

They believe they are morally, structurally and societally superior to Russia, and they just can’t accept losing this conflict to Russia.

That’s exactly why the situation is so dangerous. Any idea of peace with Russia or Ukrainian surrender is not possible to grasp in the European mind.

Posted by: Avtonom | Jun 9 2025 9:45 utc | 183

Sorry forgot to mention this was a commentary to grunzt | Jun 9 2025 9:23 utc | 182

Posted by: Avtonom | Jun 9 2025 9:47 utc | 184

Posted by: Avtonom | Jun 9 2025 9:45 utc | 184
pretty much. all of those statesponsors of terrorism (uk/eu) are fucked up narcissists that see themself as “better” then the russians.
almost like we germans saw us as the “herrenrasse” and the others as “untermenschen”.
but now with germany beeing an occupied country, the mask of the british has slipped, and revealed that they are the true nazis.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Jun 9 2025 9:49 utc | 185

“but now with germany beeing an occupied country, the mask of the british has slipped, and revealed that they are the true nazis.”
ALL the brutal colonialists of the past centuries were and are – including the USA as an ugly product of this, even though it came a bit too late for the archaic ‘colonialization’ thing, that’s such a thing of the past and just annoying. Today, with the world much smaller by technological progress, you don’t need that, you just visit the countries you want to pillage and pillage them, then go back home and have a joyful evening watching the burned down remains and your victims suffering in these ruins. So the idea…

Posted by: Beatrice | Jun 9 2025 9:55 utc | 186

CrossTalk Bullhorns: ‘Operation Spider Web’
https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/618805-operation-spider-web-istanbul-talks/
“Does the Istanbul talks serve any useful purpose? Why does the West want the conflict to continue? Also, Operation Spider Web, with US involvement, is a major escalation against Russia. And, does Russia’s SMO now include anti-terrorism? CrossTalking with George Szamuely and Mark Sleboda.”

Posted by: JohnGilberts | Jun 9 2025 10:19 utc | 187

“The name “Golden Dome” gives it away. Its only design feature is provide the MIC with a golden dome, i.e. a dome that is showering gold onto them and which is pushed higher as needed by them.”
Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 9 2025 9:00 utc | 177
I’d agree with your interpretation as well, and I have said the same thing when he came up with the idea. There’s always more than one reason for anything happening in US administrations and feeding the monster that is the military industrial graft complex is a big part of the deal, as are the hypothetical 6th generation fighter jets as well. Trump likes his sound bytes too so making the people think they are safe under his reign is part of the deal too. Meanwhile Patriots are not going to do the job if they need serious protection if any missiles ever turn up over US skies.

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 10:19 utc | 188

.. and the others as “untermenschen”
It’s a narrative for genocide … there is a glossary of terms used leading to slaughter, starts and ends with dehumanization. It’s part of fascism and buried in “white supremacy” …
That’s how Borrell (Spanish fascist upbringing) got away with his “garden” and “jungle”. A call to murder or let be killed/die of people attempting to escape the woes of colonial misery and perpetual wars in MENA states and Africa. Plunder of resources in the African continent, and now used as dumping ground for EU’s toxic waste. Colonialism is not dead, but a by-product of capitalism or any expansionist dogma.
Please … by definition NAZI belongs to Hitler’s Germany and nothing else, death camps for the inferior and faulty human beings. Do I hear peptalk of South African Elon Musk here and his fascist arm gesture?
Fascism rides the waves of xenophobia, Russophobia and Islamophobia. FEAR, FEAR, FEAR.
Revolutions are based on inequality in society, just like another devastating San Andreas quake … long overdue.

Posted by: Oui | Jun 9 2025 10:21 utc | 189

Dubno airfield:

⚠️ According to information from loyal sources behind enemy lines, among other things, up to 5 MiG-29 aircraft were destroyed at the Dubno airfield.
Immediately before the attack, there was also 1 F-16 at the airfield, if we were lucky, it also died along with the MiGs.
In addition, a strong fire continues at the airfield, including burning tanks with aviation fuel, local residents hear secondary detonation, which once again confirms our information about the destruction of the warehouse with missiles.
It is equally important that the enemy lost over 60 personnel killed and wounded, including quite valuable personnel from the airfield personnel.

@CyberSpecNews

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 9 2025 10:28 utc | 190

I think European Nato is running out of air launched missiles very soon. They don’t have much production for SCALP or Taurus missiles, remnants from the Cold War stockpile.

Posted by: unimperator | Jun 9 2025 10:33 utc | 191

Trump’s Golden Dome Turbo Charges The War Machine – And Carney Wants Us To Pay For It
https://breachmedia.ca/trumps-golden-dome-turbocharges-the-war-machine-and-carney-wants-us-to-pay-for-it/
“Fresh off a federal election that hinged on the Liberals’ promise to put more distance between Canada and the US, Prime Minister Mark Carney’s confirmation that he is considering signing Canada up for the multi-billion dollar missile defence initiative has left many observers dumbfounded.
The Prime Minister’s reversal on a ‘new relationship’ with the United States will take Canada down an expensive, dangerous path…”

Posted by: JohnGilberts | Jun 9 2025 10:39 utc | 192

Rutte is visiting Starmer to day to convince UK to pay another 30b a year to latest NATO funding standards “requests”

Posted by: Jo | Jun 9 2025 10:42 utc | 193

“death camps for the inferior and faulty human beings.”
Concentration camps already existed during the second Boer War in the regions where South Africa is now and formerly where Orange Free State and Transvaal where located. Goering pointed this out to the British as if they were hypocrites to call out the Germans. Around 30,000 mostly women and children died there during the Boer Wars, and nobody knows how many indigenous Africans died under similar circumstances. They were simply not even counted they were so ‘untermenschen’. Most of colonialism treated the indigenous peoples in their lands as untermenschen. Colonial peoples were always treated as inferior beings that were ‘barbarian’ savage( as an aberration of the French = sauvage) and pagan i.e. not Christian.
There were some prison camps in the US too during the civil war that could have passed as concentration camps where many captured soldiers died through starvation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Boer_War_concentration_camps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_prison_camps

Posted by: George | Jun 9 2025 10:45 utc | 194

Posted by: Apollyon | Jun 9 2025 8:12 utc | 170
Good points re the “goslow’” , but Russia may not have neutralised assets or key people ,as we would expect in this war scenario, because they were simply not allowed to ; either by China and/or Russo/Ukro oligarchs. Yes, China does still own a lot of infrastructure in the Ukraine , including I believe railways. Putin may be unwilling to destroy them because he is honestly being timid , or he is playing the long game. I still don’t know myself and likely never will.

Posted by: Mustee | Jun 9 2025 10:58 utc | 195

Beatrice…Ukraine pays…..but any proof it actually does IE families get money into bank accounts….or deductions(eg burial/recovery costs, claims on lost or damaged military supplied equipment) made on the way…can any official government dept actually prove the accounts to be and my as we know Ukraine is rather clever with balance sheets.but people actually recieving Dosh, when more likely they owe money for huge costs of living ….

Posted by: Jo | Jun 9 2025 11:02 utc | 196

Beatrice…Ukraine pays…..but any proof it actually does IE families get money into bank accounts….or deductions(eg burial/recovery costs, claims on lost or damaged military supplied equipment) made on the way…can any official government dept actually prove the accounts to be and my as we know Ukraine is rather clever with balance sheets.but people actually recieving Dosh, when more likely they owe money for huge costs of living ….

Posted by: Jo | Jun 9 2025 11:03 utc | 197

speaking of civilian deaths, spanish newspaper el-pais:

🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦 Kiev Regime Converts Civilian Homes into Makeshift Drone Factories
According to El País, Ukraine has begun assembling combat drones inside ordinary residential homes.
One such site, described in detail by the Spanish newspaper, produces around 20 drones per day, with output sometimes reaching up to 100. The house employs a team of about a dozen workers. From the outside, it appears to be just another civilian residence — there’s no visible sign of the military production inside.
El País reports that this so-called “garage military-industrial complex” was officially presented to Zelensky in February, although this particular workshop had already been running since last year.
The process involves importing civilian-grade drones, which are then modified on-site for frontline use — either into FPV kamikaze drones or fitted with drop mechanisms for carrying explosives.

source: el pais behind paywall.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Jun 9 2025 11:05 utc | 198

@ PeterAU1
This could result in the activation of NATO’s Article 5 and the escalation of the conflict into a regional or even global conflict.
It’s genocide #Joe’s war … and UK PM #Boris for halting the negotiations.
Watch the NATO Summit in The Hague … Trump will make very clear, it’s Europe’s war to win or lose.
NATO’s protection Article 5 is null and void.
That is the same argument for telling Zelenskyy UA will never become a member of NATO in a hot conflict zone.
Rests Starmer’s coalition of the willing w/o US air cover … success Keir ☹

Posted by: Oui | Jun 9 2025 11:10 utc | 199

Oui | Jun 9 2025 11:10 utc | 202
Alex Krainer is a name I have seen a lot of in the last decade since starting to watch geo-politics but haven’t ever watched or read him. I think I did for a short time some years back but I think seemed a bit abstract for me so I lost interest.
Just recently he has been on Dialog works with Nima. He has researched the British national archives and also a site called I think, ‘UK Declassified’ which has a lot of information on declassified British documents.
During WWII, Churchill order the (I think) chiefs of staff to come up with a plan to attack the Soviet Union the moment Germany was defeated. Plan A was ‘Operation Unthinkable’. That involved a combined attack with the US plus reformed German divisions and the Poles.
Plan B according to Krainer is what is occurring now. It was a very long term strategy to create European total war against the Soviets. That is a plan Krainer has read at the British national archives or UK declassified.
Russia, regardless of whether it is Tsarist Russia, part of the Soviet Union or the current Russian federation, is always viewed the same in the eyes of the British elite and so that long term strategy is reaching fruition now.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 9 2025 11:31 utc | 200