Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 4, 2025
Ukraine – Cost Of 6,000 Dead Soldiers, Thousands ‘Abducted’ Children Have Vanished

Busy, so just a few items on Ukraine.

  • Colonel Markus Reisner of the Austrian Army just published a new overview (vid) on the state of the war in Ukraine.
  • During the negotiations in Istanbul Russia offered to 'unilaterally' deliver to Ukraine the 6,000 bodies of service members of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

    Today the Russian delegation leader in Istanbul, Vladimir Medinsky, reported to President Putin:

    We proposed, unilaterally, to transfer to Kiev over 6,000 bodies of Ukrainian troops. They will be transferred using refrigerator cars where they are currently kept. We are ready to begin shortly. We understand Ukraine may have bodies of our troops as well although in much smaller numbers. But we are ready to take them over, if any.

    The bodies were mostly recovered by the Russians after the hasty retreat of the Ukrainian army from its incursion into Russia's Kursk oblast.

    This offer is a significant problem (in Russian) for the Ukrainian government. Family members of the deceased soldiers are of course pressing to receive and to bury those bodies. But acknowledging that those dead are indeed Ukrainian soldiers would be quite costly.

    The dead are currently only listed as 'missed'. If they are declared dead their families will be entitled to receive 15 million hryvnias (UAH) (US$ 1 = UAH 41,50) each (3 million at once and the rest over three years and three months).

    The return of six thousand bodies of military personnel killed in battle will cost 90 billion hryvnias (~US$ 2.2 billion) of payments from the Ukrainian budget. This is almost 10% of the military budget of Ukraine for the whole of the year.

    The Ukrainian government will have to take the bodies. But it is likely to declare most of them 'unidentified' to then slow walk the process of identifying and naming them.

    (The high cost for the budget also explains why the official Ukrainian death count is always kept low.)

  • Mediniski made another point which is also of interest:

    Finally, the Ukrainian side handed over to us the list of 339 children allegedly kidnapped from the territory of Ukraine. Here is the list. We are working on it, through the office of the Commissioner for Children’s Rights. We will investigate every name.

    But I must note that, for propaganda purposes, they earlier claimed that tens and hundreds of thousands of children had been brought over here. In fact, the actual number is 339 and we still need to check how many are in Russia, evacuated by our soldiers from under fire, and how many will eventually turn up in Europe, as experience shows.

    The 'experience' Medinsky mentions refers to this item from last year's April:

    Ukrainian children deported by Russia have been found in Germany: details have emerged

    Ukrainian law enforcement officers, with the assistance of their German colleagues, have established the whereabouts of 161 Ukrainian children abducted by Russia in Germany. They were wanted as forcibly transferred to the temporarily occupied territories or deported to Russia and Belarus.

    Those Ukrainian children, abducted by the bad, bad Putin, had fled with their parents to Germany …

Comments

ditto – karl is the man!!

Posted by: james | Jun 4 2025 23:15 utc | 101

All is good except it seems there seems to be an extra zero. 220 million is still a big number

Posted by: Khalid Shah | Jun 4 2025 23:33 utc | 102

Posted by: boneless | Jun 4 2025 23:02 utc | 98
#######
I bet you’re a lot of fun at parties.
Unclench. You’ll live longer.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 4 2025 23:34 utc | 103

Trump’s post on his phone conversation with Putin.
“I just got off the phone with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The call lasted about an hour and 15 minutes. We discussed the Ukrainian attack on docked Russian aircraft, as well as various other attacks that are happening on both sides. It was a good conversation, but not a conversation that will lead to immediate peace. President Putin did say, very strongly, that he will have to respond to the recent attack on airfields. We also talked about Iran, and that time is running out for Iran to make a decision on nuclear weapons, and it must be made quickly! I told President Putin that Iran cannot have nuclear weapons, and on that I believe we agreed. President Putin suggested that he would participate in the talks with Iran and perhaps be helpful in bringing them to a speedy conclusion. In my opinion, Iran is dragging its feet on this very important issue, and we will need a definitive answer in a very short period of time!”
In my opinion his comments regarding Iran are more significant than those on Ukraine.

Posted by: Siddhartha | Jun 4 2025 23:47 utc | 104

Melaleuca | Jun 4 2025 23:10 utc | 100–
Thanks for your reply. Escobar reports on his Telegram that Trump deleted his Truth Social phone call “rant”–at least I’m assuming that’s what Pepe means by “rant.” I’ve looked at Russian media, and nowhere is it said “that Russia’s response will be devastating.” It appears many have fallen for the Trump Bluster PsyOp again.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 4 2025 23:51 utc | 105

It appears that Russia is going to attack Ukrainian decision making centers in response to the attacks on their strategic bombers. They should have attacked Ukrainian decision making centers BEFORE Ukraine attacked their strategic bombers.
For all you who that think that Putin is playing 5D chess, tell that to the mothers and fathers of the dead Russian soldiers who would not been killed had Russia bombed the Ukrainian decision making centers the first week of the war.
A while back, Putin said that RUSSIA WILL NEVER AGAIN FIGHT WARS ON ITS OWN SOIL. Clearly, it is now fighting a war on its own soil.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 5 2025 0:00 utc | 106

Apologies if this is a repeat- my computer was not responding…I’ve tried to clarify some of my points.
In answer to karlof1 | Jun 4 2025 22:55 utc | 96, I will post again my previous link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQrQGI_Y6hc
Posted by: juliania | Jun 4 2025 22:33 utc | 90
I’m doing so in light of your current conversations with others at the end of the first page. The Dialogue Works post I link above is a long one but the important part dealing with the terrorist activity question comes at the beginning. Both John’s and Ray’s first comments are in line with a previous post of mine (to which nobody has responded). So, I was happy to see I have been addressing the matter correctly from a Russian perspective.
I hope you can just look at the first half hour of the link above. The conversation comes before the recent Trump/Putin conversation, but I think it makes the latter more understandable. Russia considers the Ukraine regime to be now a terrorist regime (as you commented in your post, karlof1), but they do so now in light of the ongoing talks.
They, Russia, consider the formal presentation of their memorandum important and potentially productive. Getting things in writing with a stated commitment by the other side was what Ukraine attempted to avoid by committing the weekend’s terrorist actions. But they did not disrupt the talks, since they continued and both sides are committed to responding. So now the regime can be legally be labelled ‘terrorist’ because of those attempts. They have been seen committing terrorist acts.
This must be remembered to have been the problem of NATO’s expansion. It wasn’t put down in writing that they would not do so. So, not only does Russia want the formalization of the status of the oblasts to be recognized, but it formally considers the regime in Ukraine as a terrorist regime, and demands that consideration as well. Which would preclude the alternative, which would be much much worse.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 0:03 utc | 107

malenkov | Jun 4 2025 23:13 utc | 101–
Thanks for your praise, and james too. Subscribing is fine, but I don’t use that as a metric; instead, I use views, which come from subscribers, followers, and those just visiting the Gym. I’m sure MoA gets many more than I as there’re a great many substacks in my general genre.
Ushakov told TASS a little more than what was reported in the readout:
“This topic was indeed discussed. I’ve already said what I could on this topic. What Trump categorically emphasized was that the American side had not been informed about this in advance by the Ukrainian relevant authorities.” [My Emphasis]
The bolded portion is what was omitted from the readout. The problem with what Trump said is that NATO was clearly involved. Plus, we know the explosives used in the terror attacks were not Ukrainian but of some foreign manufacture. I’m sure more is known about the airfield attacks that isn’t being aired, probably a great deal.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 5 2025 0:09 utc | 108

The United States on Wednesday blocked a UN Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire and unrestricted aid into war-ravaged Gaza. The US was the only member of the 15-nation council to go against the vote, saying the resolution would only work to embolden Hamas because it did not call for the militant group to disarm.

Posted by: Siddhartha | Jun 5 2025 0:10 utc | 109

“Let me cut to the core of our message: 5 percent. Peace through strength demands nothing less, and it demands it equally from all Allies. This is not going to be just a pledge. This is going to be a commitment. Every Ally must commit to investing at least 5 percent of GDP in defense and security starting now. Again, this is not a suggestion; it’s a baseline for deterrence in a world where threats are (inaudible).”
needs to read – “Let me cut to the core of our message: 5 percent. Peace through slavery demands nothing less, and it demands it equally from all slaves. This is not going to be just a pledge. This is going to be a commitment. Every slave must commit to investing at least 5 percent of GDP in defense and security starting now. Again, this is not a suggestion; it’s a baseline for deterrence in a world where threats are (inaudible ( regularly coming from nato and the expansion of nato). ”
Digital Press Briefing: U.S. Permanent Representative to NATO Ambassador Matthew Whitaker
Special Briefing
The Brussels Hub
June 4, 2025

Posted by: james | Jun 5 2025 0:15 utc | 110

Not just implications for the budget, complications also for those officers/commanders who reported the deceased as “missing” and continued to receive wages and allowances paid for the “missing”…
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Jun 4 2025 17:43 utc | 2
What implications for the budget ?
It’s 90 billion hryvnias. Something they can create at will By typing and marking numbers up into the recipients bank account.
Ta, da, – payment made.
As always you miss the point because the word budget confused you Jeremy. Or you foolishly thought Ukrainian taxes would have to pay for the 90 billion. As if Ukraine uses The Euro.
The REAL issue is apart from the corruption, is if they credit people’s bank accounts with 90 billion using an index finger and a computer keyboard.
What are the people reviving it going to spend it on ?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
How’s Ukraine ‘s economy looking right now ? Does it have enough skills and real resources, goods and services to absorb 90 billion of new spending, IF the recipients start spending it ?
What will it do to prices with inflation already running at 15.5% ?
That’s the real issue, not finding hryvnias. They are created at will.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 5 2025 0:19 utc | 111

I guess since my posts are being ignored there is no further use for me here. I don’t believe I have attacked anyone, but I guess I should be more patient as that is the course Russia is following.
May it all become clear asmore polished arguments come to the fore.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 0:23 utc | 112

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 0:23 utc | 114
Don’t assume the absence of replies means you are being ignored.
If it helps I’m watching the Helmer/McGovern link right now.
Not sure I’m buying all that they say, but let’s see…

Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 5 2025 0:30 utc | 113

Give Ukrainians a decent tax cut with a supply side full of blockages and bottle necks and it will be the exact same problem.
See Liz Truss for details…

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 5 2025 0:30 utc | 114

juliania | Jun 5 2025 0:03 utc | 109–
Thanks for your reply. Medinsky stated: “They set out all this [their terms] in their version of the memorandum, which was handed over to us on May 28.”
The delivery on 28 May contradicts this:
“Getting things in writing with a stated commitment by the other side was what Ukraine attempted to avoid by committing the weekend’s terrorist actions.”
Ukraine’s text was already submitted.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 5 2025 0:31 utc | 115

Background on Mike Huckabee, Trump’s appointment as Ambassador to Israel:
Huckabee is a strong supporter of Israel, opposing Palestinian statehood and rejecting Palestinian identity as “a political tool to try and force land away from Israel.”
In 2008, Huckabee said that there is “really no such thing as a Palestinian”.
In 2017, at an event in the West Bank, he stated: “There is no such thing as a West Bank – it’s Judea and Samaria. There’s no such thing as a settlement. They’re communities. They’re neighborhoods. They’re cities. There’s no such thing as an occupation.”
He described the Hamas-led attack on Israel on October 7, 2023, as “horrific” and “beyond anything I’ve ever witnessed in my lifetime.” Really? As an American it was more horrific than 9/11? Where do your loyalties lie Mr Huckabee?
On June 1, 2025, he said that if France wants a Palestinian state, it should “carve” it out of the French Riviera.

Posted by: Siddhartha | Jun 5 2025 0:33 utc | 116

Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 5 2025 0:30 utc | 115
In addition, they are both old guys.
Often the point they are trying to make gets lost in the telling.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 5 2025 0:33 utc | 117

Anton Gorbatow | Jun 5 2025 0:00 utc | 108
Putin said that RUSSIA WILL NEVER AGAIN FIGHT WARS ON ITS OWN SOIL. Clearly, it is now fighting a war on its own soil.

Sigh, this shit gets so tiring. However, since you appear somewhat sincere – or troll sophistication is getting much higher – I’ll bother to respond.
The primary first question was: where to fight? A great general knows he must choose and shape the battlefield. Standard US doctrine is to fight them ‘over there’ so we dont have to fight them here. But Russia didnt have sufficient resources nor logistics capabilities (at the time) to fight other than on their own border.
Second, Russia knew/knows they would be fighting US/NATO which had a lot of materiel to be utilized by the Ukraine meat army. Thus the oft quoted attrition strategy.
Third, nobody like change – not people, not organizations, not countries nor cultures. Theres even a psychological process identified as the 5 stages: denial, anger, negotiation, depression and acceptance.
Now, it was critically important for Russia to avoid any kind of full retaliation by NATO in the throes of the anger stage. Rather, they key was to ease them into first negotiation (where we’re currently at), before helping the West manage its colletive depression yet to come.
This strategy was an absolute masterstroke, and if history is any guide, will be studied 2,500 years hence just as we review Alexander, Hannibal, Caesar, et al.

Posted by: Markw | Jun 5 2025 0:46 utc | 118

Before DJT’s Truth Social post disappeared, this line appeared in it: “President Putin did say, and very strongly, that he will have to respond to the recent attack on the airfields.”
Though DJT did not use the word “devastating” in that now-deleted post, he did indicate that VVP “very strongly” said that he would “have to respond” to the airfield attacks.
Naturally, any leader would “have to respond” to such an attack—and it is not difficult to believe than any given leader would convey this intention “very strongly”—in very strong terms.
Russia has a Free Pass, almost a Get Out Of Jail Free card, in other words, on whatever kind of response they’d like to make.
Something *glitched*, whether on the DJT side or on the rogue UK/Ukraine side, which has now made it possible for Russia to swing for the fences, if they want, in their retaliatory response.
This is an own-goal for the U.S.-led NATO curators of Project Ukraine, but so be it. They’ll allow Ukraine to suck up the damage.
Nobody on the Russian side can control what DJT posts on Truth Social, naturally—so it’s not as if VVP has to be especially circumspect in his candid remarks to DJT. Under normal circumstances, one head of state speaking in “very strong” terms to a co-belligerent in a surprise terrorist attack on its own territory would be expected.
In that both Russia and the U.S. have gone to the trouble to keep the lines of communication open, it seems important to continue candid exchanges, even if Russia’s candor risks some kind of bogus-ly over-the-top highly emotive response from DJT.
Just goes w/ the territory.
In showbiz, there’s a saying: “Never let them see your ass.”
DJT is letting not only the Russians “see his ass” but everyone else too.
A regrettable glimpse.
Hard to un-see.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 5 2025 0:56 utc | 119

I guess since my posts are being ignored there is no further use for me here. I don’t believe I have attacked anyone, but I guess I should be more patient as that is the course Russia is following.
May it all become clear as more polished arguments come to the fore.
Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 0:23 utc | 114
Nothing could be further from the truth
There is so much information coming out it is hard to respond.
I just watched the video you recommended and I read all of your posts. Giving Trump room to respond I feel is the best option at the moment. Giving peace a chance until the smoke clears is a great relief.
I am sure you would be missed by all
Please do not leave

Posted by: ld | Jun 5 2025 0:56 utc | 120

Ukrainians lie like israelis.
This makes sense because both countries are run by Jews.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jun 5 2025 1:01 utc | 121

Like all of the wonder ‘greatest’ offensives of Ukraine this one comes with a massive cost in mostly young lives, and more debt to the economy.
But losing is still winning for the deluded Zelensky, after all it is not his life that is lost, nor the immense fortune that he has extracted from the ongoing financial aid given to his country.

Posted by: George | Jun 5 2025 1:04 utc | 122

Hard to un-see.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 5 2025 0:56 utc | 121
Didn’t notice trumps post was deleted
If anyone cares to read it it’s in the other thread
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2025/06/ukraine-strategic-escalation-intended-to-influence-talks.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02e86102bc71200d#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02e86102bc71200d
As for the phrase “President Putin did say, and very strongly, that he will have to respond to the recent attack on the airfields” I mentioned that in the Tass articles the complaints were not solely, nor particularly focused on that component.
Sounded like, not as much as a Carter Blanche you imply (and neither trump has the authority , nor Putin the need( , much more as a recognition , the forms obeyed, Vendetta, the art of kanly is still alive

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 1:14 utc | 123

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 0:03 utc | 109
Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 0:23 utc | 114
RE: your posts are valuable
<< Please continue to share your ideas. Often in the hurly-burly of an intense thread not every post of *anybody's* receives a response, but that is a function of MoA's particular dynamic---and it does not mean that people fail to notice. You clearly give serious-minded attention to your posts, and I enjoy contemplating the points you raise. We need an abundance of ideas here. BTW: after you finish w/ "A Gentleman in Moscow" and then turn your attention to a title or two by Rex Stout, keep "The Romanov Empress" by C.W. Gortner in mind as part of your beach reading for later in the summer.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 5 2025 1:16 utc | 124

@111
Disarm for Gaza ceasefire Kiev rearm for RF ceasefire!
The US’ position on Kiev to disarm for ceasefire will be the exact opposite of Gaza.
In Kiev US is hoping Russian Federation will fall for a ceasefire where US can rebuild Kiev’s mercenaries.
Which is TACO Trump; Humpty or Dumpty?

Posted by: paddy | Jun 5 2025 1:28 utc | 125

Markw 120, You didn’t specifically address why Russia has not bombed Ukrainian decision making centers yet.
Secondly, I appreciate that USA is insane and Russia doesn’t want to give USA an excuse to attack them with major force but there are two problems with this line of thinking, 1. If USA wants to severely attack Russia, they will come up with a feeble excuse (or a false flag). 2. USA is already attacking Russia in various ways and will continue to do so until it is completely destroyed.
I think that Putin’s strategy can be deemed a master stroke only if Russia takes Odessa. I hope it does.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 5 2025 1:29 utc | 126

In the meantime, while the Russians are looking into the matter of the 339 “disappeared” Ukrainian children, the mainstream Western media outlets and fact-checking sites are busy denying or mocking Internet rumours and allegations that the Olena Zelenska Foundation, supposedly founded to provide humanitarian aid for displaced children and foster families, is a front for child sex trafficking.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jun 5 2025 1:32 utc | 127

Markw 120, When I said “until it is completely destroyed”, I meant until USA is completely destroyed.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 5 2025 1:34 utc | 128

juliania | Jun 5 2025 0:03 utc | 109
…comments are in line with a previous post of mine (to which nobody has responded)
juliiania…. You’ve been a @barfly (and one I value) for a looooong time.
You *know* only shitposts and obvious trollturds prompt replies… dozens of them, to shit up a thread.
I have your recommended yt in an open tab… but the @bar recommends about 100hrs of video per 8 hour period….
Anyway, pls keep posting, I’ll keep reading you.
And make a bit more of an effort to acknowledge value posts swimming above the sewerage.
~~~
Thanks Jen.
I marvel at your knowledge of the background of non main stream topics … you once used to post more frequently… I always looked for yours when I was a mere lurker.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 5 2025 1:35 utc | 129

Surely it is most obvious to anyone born with a brain that other than the social media, Ukraine had sod all to do with Operation Spiderweb? This is 100 percent an American/NATO attack on Russia

Posted by: Winston | Jun 5 2025 2:04 utc | 130

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jun 5 2025 1:35 utc | 131
Ditto. There are so many brilliant people here.
I have learned so much.
That is very disturbing about the Olena Zelenska Foundation.
It reminds me of the book My Friend Matt & Hena the Whore

Posted by: lex talionis | Jun 5 2025 2:11 utc | 131

USA is the most destructive and degenerate country in the history of the world

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Jun 5 2025 2:16 utc | 132

The Terrorist shopping list — they’ve been publishing these for the last years. Clear evidence of who are the terrorists? It is not UKRAINE! – obviously, mentally deranged Putin needs more lessons.
News: Ukraine’s defense minister Umerov reported on the outcome of the latest “Ramstein” meeting.
Here’s a breakdown of the military aid pledged by NATO countries:
🇬🇧 UK: £350 million, supposedly to supply Ukraine with 100,000 drones in 2025.
🇩🇪 Germany: A previously announced €5 billion package, including funding for long-range weapons to be produced on Ukrainian territory, air defense systems, weapons, and ammunition.
🇳🇱 Netherlands: €400 million, including a minehunter, patrol boats, and naval drones.
🇧🇪 Belgium: €1 billion annually until 2029, plus a minehunter.
🇳🇴 Norway: $700 million for drones, and another $50 million to the NATO-Ukraine Trust Fund.
🇨🇦 Canada: $45 million for drones, electronic warfare tools, IT systems, and armored vehicles (Coyote and Bison).
🇸🇪 Sweden: €440 million for international schemes to buy artillery shells, drones, and other weaponry.
🇺🇸 Notably, the United States was absent from the meeting for the first time

Posted by: Roxy | Jun 5 2025 2:16 utc | 133

Good post B. Many thanks.
Monstrous things continue to happen in our name without our consent our response or our correction. This must obviously be made to change. By any means necessary. Silence is complicity. Resist don’t collaborate.

Posted by: JohnGilberts | Jun 5 2025 2:20 utc | 134

There is no “budget deficit” for Ukiestan. The west pays for everything and for now, every cost is planned to be taken from Russia. 2 million dead ukies means roughly 700 billion dollars just in dead man payments – which clearly Ukiestan isn’t ever going to payout to their own

Posted by: Winston | Jun 5 2025 2:29 utc | 135

Anton Gorbatow@108…..bombing the Ukrainian decision making centres is the biggest running joke of the existential war called an SMO…..talk is cheap, with the Ukrainian decision making centres being located in FUKG cities…..well, Russia has a problem don’t they?. Best they just kill all the Ukrainians, maybe even Tiny Dancer, he is such a belligerent little bastard, he really is Ukrainian.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jun 5 2025 2:29 utc | 136

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jun 4 2025 23:14 utc | 102
Others in the bar thank you for your Wiki cut and paste, for which I was around at the time in Canberra, where they were blowing up Embassies, and in Western Sydney where they were blowing up Mosques and other Muslim social clubs.
But neither the Catholic nor the right wing undercurrents were ever publicised. The media led us to believe they were just “stinky ol’ Slavic commie radicals bringing their ex-pat squabbles to our peaceful, multicultural-loving country” — a sentiment still deeply held today by nearly all Australians from Pauline Hanson all the way to the far left.
To even Buddhist monks, self-immolating in public places for political notoriety and their causes of native persecution, we say “Fuck off and leave your ethnic shit back home”. Lol.
But of course, fkn 404 has got a good run for its money since 2022 cos Russophobia has never hidden itself well down here since the Crimean War of 1853! The basic premise since 1788 (excepting E.G.W. in 1972-1975) has been “England’s enemies are our enemies”. Add to that all the US’s enemies of the last 240 years, and you have in a nutshell Australia’s Foreign Policy and military allegiances. QED.

Posted by: Gum Tree | Jun 5 2025 2:31 utc | 137

@126
This is rather off-topic (I hope B. doesn’t reject it), but you are clearly well-read in Russian history. That’s my impression based on your occasional references to tsarist-era history books. So I’ll ask…
Can you recommend any single book about the Crimean War (1853-56) that, in your opinion, is the best of the lot? Same regarding Napoleon’s 1812 invasion?

Posted by: GW | Jun 5 2025 2:50 utc | 138

Thanks, ChatNPC | Jun 5 2025 0:30 utc | 115 ! You don’t have to agree– I’m an oldie so I know my views are often not shared. Goes with the territory! They didn’t agree either at the end, but still a useful lot of information they each have stored away.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 2:50 utc | 139

Posted by: Roxy | Jun 5 2025 2:16 utc | 135
Thanks for the list, Roxy? Madness in numbers — each line stands for more poverty, pension cuts, closed schools, worse healthcare.
Do you have a link? I am curious why some notorious Russia-hating governments don’t show up. Thinking of France and Denmark in particular.

Posted by: Konami | Jun 5 2025 2:59 utc | 140

This must be remembered to have been the problem of NATO’s expansion. It wasn’t put down in writing that they would not do so. So, not only does Russia want the formalization of the status of the oblasts to be recognized, but it formally considers the regime in Ukraine as a terrorist regime, and demands that consideration as well. Which would preclude the alternative, which would be much much worse.
Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 0:03 utc | 109

What is the significance of Russia considering Ukraine a terrorist regime? They are now requiring Ukraine regime chance as a condition?\
“Which would preclude the alternative, which would be much much worse.”
Alternative to considering Ukraine a terrorist regime?

Posted by: Cheney | Jun 5 2025 3:02 utc | 141

Yes, thanks, karlof1 | Jun 5 2025 0:31 utc | 117. Apologies. I knew that Ukraine had submitted theirs, I should have been more specific. I was talking about Russia’s memorandum which they had withheld until the meeting itself.
Ukraine was angry that Russia hadn’t given it beforehand; Russia withheld it. Why? Ukraine did not want to meet again. Why?
The ongoing discussions were the point of contention somehow, face to face, not as Ukraine would have it, or the Europeans, or someplace else than Turkey.
An ongoing process. It’s not one upmanship; it’s the minimum of protocol. Russia has waited a long time and they wanted it done correctly. They would like to let Ukraine still be a country, still have Odessa! This was a new Istanbul, Istanbul done right. For Russia, that is. And they kept to it, even in the face of the cruel and treaty-dishonoring terrorist attacks meant to destroy the meeting. No, the meeting continues; the memorandum is given. That’s how Russia saw it, a way to deal with the reality, keep offering a diplomatic ‘out’. As they would have done at the first ‘Istanbul’.
I’m hoping Trump sees it. It gives him a way forward if he does.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 3:31 utc | 142

Alexander Mercouris discussed Putin’s internal speech to govt and received the impression, that the attacks on the airfields were considered legitimate military targets and part of warfare, and retaliation will be similar.
Putin spent much more time talking about the 2 rail bridge attacks labelled as direct terrorism on civilians, and will be responded to with counter-terrorism measures.

Posted by: Rain | Jun 5 2025 3:36 utc | 143

Oh, ffs. All this bumpf about US/UK complicity in everything that happens in Ukraine. 90% fantasy.
Ukraine doesn’t need US satellites or Intel to target and drone Russian military bases or bridges. Every place the SBU wants to hit is on Google and in their own databases as a potential target.
1) 5kg of Semtex taped under any one of 10,000 railway bridges in the country, set off by a burner phone as a train passes. I could do it in one night.
2) One local agent on a hill with binoculars is enough to see what’s left out in the open at some mil base and worth planning to hit for the PR. Duh. Or just one tiny FPV recon drone overhead at maximum height a few days/weeks before. FPV drones are guided visually by local operators. So simply travel them to near any military base in decoy trucks. Open the roof remotely from 5-10kms away. A team fly the drones out, hits any planes they can see from the drone’s camera, then scurry away. It doesn’t take MI6 to invent or carry out that operation. I could do it.
And it doesn’t need US/UK approval or assistance or forenotice. It’s just the SBU doing its instructed thing by a recalcitrant Zelensky trying to stimulate a big Russian response. US/UK just think “Well, it’s his war, his anger. We’re ok with that. Carry on, unless/until it affects us DIRECTLY”.

Posted by: WTF you people | Jun 5 2025 3:53 utc | 144

Thank you ld | Jun 5 2025 0:56 utc | 122. That was my feeling of not getting through, sorr. As ChatNPC says we’re not perfect, we oldies. To us, longwindedness is part of getting to the truth; it’s not easy to convey, even on a good forum like this one. If you stay to the end of that linked conversation though, you see that even Ray and John have different views. They still learn things from each other. Being in the weeds is better than being in the swamp. It’s safer, firm ground; you can forcefully disagree and it’s not the end of the world. Nima is young; I guess I like his forum for that reason.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 3:57 utc | 145

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 5 2025 1:16 utc | 126
Thanks, s_p. I will. For now, I’ve gone back to Plato’s “The Laws”. Elderly friends taking a long walk in Crete. I’m really enjoying it. And my seminar
question is: two of the friends have names; the main speaker doesn’t; he’s simply ‘the Athenian’. Why?
[I note that Alex Christophorous is in Athens; maybe he knows the answer.]
Sorry to be OT, b.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 4:08 utc | 146

@ juliania | Jun 5 2025 3:57 utc | 147
juliania – everyone appreciates your presence here.. that goes without saying! i don’t however get round to watching and reading everything.. i hope you and others will forgive me for that… i did see john helmer being interviewed yesterday with dimitri lascaris and i thought the 52 minute video was quite good..i don’t necessarily agree with john helmer, but he has a lot of knowledge and insight and i respect him for that.. cheers james

Posted by: james | Jun 5 2025 4:13 utc | 147

Thanks, Melaleuca | Jun 5 2025 1:35 utc | 131. We all read as much as we can. There’s a verse that applies: ‘My strength is made perfect in weakness’. Thanks all.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 4:17 utc | 148

What is the significance of Russia considering Ukraine a terrorist regime? …
Alternative to considering Ukraine a terrorist regime?
Posted by: Cheney | Jun 5 2025 3:02 utc | 143
Thanks Cheney. I’ll answer your last question first. If Ukraine’s present leaders were not a terrorist regime, the response to them, as an acceptable regime let’s say, would be that it has committed acts which legally require a serious response such as Oreshniks to a breach of international law.
There is a different response to terrorism. The response to terrorism is, or should be, more localized to the group which has orchestrated and is committing it, not to the nation in which the terrorists happen to be. Serious to them, but not to the nation.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 4:38 utc | 149

@juliania | Jun 5 2025 0:03 utc | 109
Excellent coverage of John Helmer’s arguments in the Dialogue Works video, thank you! I didn’t sleep well tonight and listened to the whole thing. It is in my opinion a mandatory piece of information to understand the Russian position. Here is the link again
Ray McGovern and John Helmer: Putin at the ORESHNIK Moment
The US is obliged to break the silence about the attacks.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2025 5:42 utc | 150

@Cheney | Jun 5 2025 3:02 utc | 143

What is the significance of Russia considering Ukraine a terrorist regime?

The Special Military Operation is likely to be upgraded to an Anti Terrorist Operation, where key the decision makers behind recent terrorist attacks (ref. Bridge/train attacks) against civilians in Russia would lose their protected status.
Listen to the explanation by John Helmer.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2025 6:03 utc | 151

Posted by: GW | Jun 5 2025 2:50 utc | 140
RE: good titles on The Crimean War and also Napoleon’s 1812 invasion
<< "Crimea" by Orlando Figes is riveting---a nailbiter. One reads, scared for the outcome, even though the outcome concluded long ago (1856.) Figes captures the scope of what I think of as the First World War. It was also a conflict which saw journalists intrude massively as never before, especially in the kinds of Narrative Management you'll recognize from today's Project Ukraine, for instance, practically on a daily basis. "Figes" pronounced feee-juhz. Russia Against Napoleon by Domini Lievan presents the 1812 invasion from Russia's perspective, is deeply sourced and geared to a non-academic audience. It splices battle descriptions and social history snippets---quotes from letters, diaries, etc---into the overall timeline. Great characterizations of all the major Russian military figures. Tolstoy's "War & Peace," though fiction, is unbeatable on 1812, btw. Tolstoy was a war correspondent on the peninsula during the Crimean War, and his "Sevastopol Sketches" is a compilation of his eyewitness account of the conflict, which were published serially as the war raged on for readers in Saint Petersburg.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 5 2025 6:06 utc | 152

@Rain | Jun 5 2025 3:36 utc | 145

Alexander Mercouris discussed Putin’s internal speech to govt and received the impression, that the attacks on the airfields were considered legitimate military targets and part of warfare, and retaliation will be similar.

The problem with this argument is that the attacks were executed in a concealed manner, masquerading as civilian legitimate activity (using civilian container trucks). This puts everyone at risk in the future, and could therefore be classified as terrorism even if the target was “legitimate”.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2025 6:09 utc | 153

@juliania | Jun 5 2025 3:57 utc | 147

Nima is young; I guess I like his forum for that reason.

Nima deserves a prize for excellence in journalism and promoting peace via dialogue.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2025 6:14 utc | 154

In further attempt at clarification of

@Cheney | Jun 5 2025 3:02 utc | 143
What is the significance of Russia considering Ukraine a terrorist regime?
The Special Military Operation is likely to be upgraded to an Anti Terrorist Operation, where key the decision makers behind recent terrorist attacks (ref. Bridge/train attacks) against civilians in Russia would lose their protected status.
Listen to the explanation by John Helmer.
Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2025 6:03 utc | 156

The Kursk region invasion was called a terrorist attack so that Russia could kill on sight and not take prisoners. Russia is declaring that again but the umbrella of coverage is not just the Kursk region…..just how big it is we will have to see.
I wonder if Ukraine soldiers that surrender will be just killed now or not?…..its called escalation…..sigh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jun 5 2025 6:20 utc | 155

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 4 2025 18:08 utc | 10
These families will never be compensated, forget it. Ukrainian budget will not be affected.
Ukrop leadership is not sending ukrop males to die for ukrop leadership’s Western treasure stream to later pay their families what in fact is a large fortune in a country so dirty poor as the Ukraines. Not gonna happen.
Even if Russia publihes the list of names with photos and documents, the Rada may change the law, so no more compensations, or bureaucrats may delay the payment indefinetely.
Ukraine is an tyranny, a satrapy of rootless Jewish oligarchs and cheap fascists, which is consuming its people for Western treasure.
The families will just accept their loss and the absence of any compensation. What can they do? Burn themselves in front of the Rada?
We are witnessing and very special case of decomposition of a mid-size country.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jun 5 2025 6:27 utc | 156

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2025 6:09 utc | 158
👍
I would also add that pampering this act and other similar acts, think about the pagers, as smart military operations, as the west pamper them, will open the door to similar actions from other state or non state actors.
Imagine if some guy in Yemen come out with a smart idea to hit a ‘legitimate’ target in Israel, would the west acknowledge it as a smart military move?

Posted by: Mario | Jun 5 2025 6:27 utc | 157

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2025 5:42 utc | 153
Thanks, Norwegian. Trump asked Putin to help persuade Iran not to have nuclear weapons. It is discouraging that he seems not to know what their position is. At least he is asking the right person to help.

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 6:30 utc | 158

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2025 6:09 utc | 158
in response to
@Rain | Jun 5 2025 3:36 utc | 145
RE: airfields as legitimate targets.
<< Agreed. In booby-trapping the shipping containers, Kiev & its US/UK/Euro-curators have *weaponized normality*---the ordinary daily movement of cargo and material goods that traverse any given country. Think of the Interstates in the U.S. Their proximity to military bases is not a weird coincidence. When Eisenhower saw the way the Reich utilized the Autobahn for movement of war materiel, he conceived of a similar arrangement for the U.S. We think of I-40 as a fast way to get to the Grand Canyon w/ the family on vacation. Eisenhower had other thoughts. *Dual purpose* to the max.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 5 2025 6:36 utc | 159

The way to unravel western dominance is to hit it on the money not on the battlefields.The slowsmo does exactly that.
About the usual ramble/youtube people claiming what they are afraid of NATO retaliation, lol sure. The whole war is NATO retaliation. The same crowd and the usual air base posters in forums claim that now VP has to do something spectacular, why? if Ukraine capitulated 3 years ago the west would not be so desperate today to derail passenger cars. They are trying to provoke Russian government into ending the war quickly.
Intelslava and the rest of telegram channels are just very angry Russians and their fury is understandable but they do not make policy. IMHO the longer this lasts the worst things will get for the west.
A little note about losses : every nation loses 1% of their population every year from old age, diseases, accidents etc, for Russia this will be around 1.5m. Losing 200-300k troops in 3 years is a blimp in demographics.

Posted by: 667 | Jun 5 2025 6:54 utc | 160

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jun 5 2025 6:27 utc | 161
RE: the decomposition of a mid-size country
<< Hard to conceive of a bigger abattoir than Ukraine, though the Gaza genocide comes to mind, both of which the U.S. is either fomenting (Ukraine) or enabling (Gaza.) Difficult to comprehend the compulsion. It's like blood calling out to blood.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 5 2025 6:55 utc | 161

Agreed.
In booby-trapping the shipping containers, Kiev & its US/UK/Euro-curators have *weaponized normality*—the ordinary daily movement of cargo and material goods that traverse any given country.
Think of the Interstates in the U.S.
Their proximity to military bases is not a weird coincidence. When Eisenhower saw the way the Reich utilized the Autobahn for movement of war materiel, he conceived of a similar arrangement for the U.S.
We think of I-40 as a fast way to get to the Grand Canyon w/ the family on vacation. Eisenhower had other thoughts. *Dual purpose* to the max.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 5 2025 6:36 utc | 164
For the most part it can be called a ruse of war (for ukraine)
A direct participation by the us would be considered perfidy as planes were exposed for control and therefore protected.
In a previous thread I mentioned cia would be less impacted as trains are easier to control
container ships can be forced to safety cover containers as well

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 7:14 utc | 162

correction
In a previous thread I mentioned CHINA would be less impacted as trains are easier to control

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 7:15 utc | 163

If your figures are correct and 15 million hryvnias is due to each family of a dead soldier, and if there are 500,000 dead-but-not-yet-acknowledged soldiers, that means the total amount due at this point is $181 billion. Is this possible? I haven’t seen anyone else flag this issue.

Posted by: Steve in Barcelona | Jun 5 2025 7:37 utc | 164

@dodo | Jun 4 2025 19:34 utc | 38
It seems to me he just discovered “To the Slanderers of Russia” Pushkin patriotic poem…

Posted by: fabrice | Jun 5 2025 7:39 utc | 165

b,
“The return of six thousand bodies of military personnel killed in battle will cost 90 billion hryvnias (~US$ 2.2 billion) of payments from the Ukrainian budget. This is almost 10% of the military budget of Ukraine for the whole of the year.”
It’s not as if they collect 100 hryvnias in taxes and that’s how much they have to spend for the year. That’s their budget.
A hyryvnia is nothing more than a “tax credit” issued to the Ukrainian people either by the Ukrainian government or by the banks who apply for a banking licence and issue state ” tax credits” when they lend.
Here:
https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/01/diagrams-dollars-modern-money-illustrated-part-1.html
And
Here:
https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2014/01/diagrams-dollars-modern-money-illustrated-part-2.html
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The Italians know this very well after having their sovereignty stripped away from them and forced to use a foreign currency – The Euro.
Here’s what some clever Italians were trying to do and what I’ve tried to promote in Scotland to free ourselves from enslavement by the English pound. Before, whoever won the Italian elections who work for Brussels stopped the Italians from doing it.
Here:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/a-tax-cut-for-cleaning-italians-take-up-bartering-in-stagnant-economy
So what were the Italians actually trying to do ?
Here:
https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2017/10/great-italian-experiment-part-2.html
Genius!

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 5 2025 7:47 utc | 166

Well DS once again shortchanged with less than 14 km2, but day almost 1.500 AFU casualties again (and another AD)
Marat has sumy and other advances, including the oskil river / izium tendril i mentioned yesterday
https://maratkhairullin.substack.com/p/brief-frontline-report-june-4th-2025

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 7:48 utc | 167

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 7:14 utc | 167
My pager’s blowing up. Now we have normalcy bombs.

Posted by: lex talionis | Jun 5 2025 7:52 utc | 168

I remember Mercouris saying that Putin didn’t mention the airfield attacks at all and he concludes that Putin wanted to separate the railway attacks (terrorism) from the airfield attacks (war). This enables him to go for Selensky&co personally – because they are terrorists – as well as ordering a massive military strike as a response to the airfield attacks.

Posted by: mk | Jun 5 2025 8:00 utc | 169

Col Reisner’s use of terms like ‘meat wave attacks’ and de facto praise for the targeting of nuclear strategic bombers is pathetic for a country that is supposeed to be ‘neutral’. He is just another pro NATO propagandist, just a bit less demented than the likes of Röpke or Kellogg.

Posted by: Rubiconned | Jun 5 2025 8:05 utc | 170

Italy doesn’t possess enough Euros to pay its citizens to provide all the goods and services needed to maintain and run the public sector of its social economy. And Italy can’t “create” the additional Euros it needs because that prerogative is the exclusive right of the EU Central Bank which Italy, even as a sovereign member of the EU, has no control over.
Italy still needs to have the grass mowed and the weeds pulled in its public gardens. So it decided out of desperation, to pay the gardeners with tax-credits. The gardeners are willing to do the work in exchange for the government’s tax-credits, because it means the Euros they earn (in other ways) can then be used to purchase goods and services rather than for paying their taxes.
The tax-credit payments described take the form of notations on the gardeners’ tax account. An hour’s worth of weeding is noted as 15 Euros worth of extinguished taxes.
If the gardener has a tax liability of, say, €3750, his taxes would be completely paid after providing 250 hours of weeding and pruning. After that, obviously, he’d have no more incentive to provide any services in exchange for the tax-credits. So the amount of services Italy can obtain in this fashion is directly limited by the amount of tax liabilities it can impose on its citizens.
It would be possible, however, to structure the tax-credit payments in another way which would have a very different outcome. Instead of making the payment as a credit notation on a citizen’s tax account, the Italian government could issue paper tax-credits and pay them to the citizens for their gardening services. To be specific, this would be a piece of “official” paper, signed with an important signature, on which was printed something like the following:
The Sovereign Italian Government promises the bearer of this paper ONE EURO of credit on taxes owed to the Sovereign Italian Government.
This amounts to exactly the same thing as making a direct credit on a citizens’ tax account, but we now have set in motion a curious set of subsequent economic actions:
Now, after an hour of weeding, upon receiving hid 15 paper tax-credits―for convenience, let’s call them “PTCs” and give them the symbol β―the gardener can choose to do the following.
He can put the PTCs under her mattress for safekeeping until the day his taxes must be paid. Or he can use the β15 to purchase a lasagna dinner at her neighborhood trattoria. The owner of the trattoria is willing to accept the PTCs in exchange for the lasagna, garlic bread, and wine because he, too, has to pay taxes to the Italian government. So, for all practical purposes, receiving the PTCs is just the same as receiving Euros for him as well.
Now we have to ask an important question: Is the amount of services Italy can obtain by issuing and “spending” its paper tax-credits still directly limited by the amount of tax liabilities it can impose on its citizens? In other words, if every Italian citizen theoretically has received enough PTCs to pay their taxes with—either having received them directly from the government for providing public services, or having received them from other citizens in exchange for lasagna dinners—will the citizens’ willingness to exchange real goods and services in exchange for the PTCs come to a halt?
Crucially, the answer is No. This is because the act of “embodying” the tax-credits in exchangeable pieces of paper has given the PTCs a usefulness in addition to their usefulness as tax payments: This additional usefulness, of course, is the ability to use them to buy goods and services from other Italian citizens and businesses. Thus, the number of paper tax-credits in “circulation” could vastly exceed, at any given time, the total actual tax liabilities of the Italian citizenry. The PTCs would continue to be accepted for lasagna dinners, because the Trattoria owners know they can use the PTCs they receive to subsequently buy Italian shoes and motorcycles— in addition to using them to pay their taxes.
Exactly the same way as if George Bailey had issued ” Bailey Bills” to save the Building and Loans he ran.
Here:
https://new-wayland.com/blog/its-a-wonderful-life/
It will no doubt have dawned on every reader with an IQ in single figures that what the Italians were trying to create is “money.” Specifically, what is called “fiat money” after having it taken from them.
Which IS nothing more than a “tax credit”.
In the same way Scotland doesn’t possess enough pounds to pay its citizens to provide all the goods and services needed to maintain and run the public sector of its social economy. And Scotland can’t “create” or “issue” the additional pounds it needs because that prerogative is the exclusive right of the British government which Scotland, even as a sovereign member of the UK, has no control over. Infact, the UK government has been starving Scotland of pounds as a political tool to destroy the SNP.
Starve the ( insert any public service here ) to say it doesn’t work then hand it over to rent seekers from which to extract economic rent.
They have been doing that trick to Scotland ever since an independence movement was born. After enslaving Scotland with the pound.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 5 2025 8:15 utc | 171

Posted by: WTF you people | Jun 5 2025 3:53 utc | 146
It doesn’t matter if the Ukrainians can do it without US/NATO help in general or personnel and satellites in particular.
It matters to more than just the Ukraine as attacking a nuclear triad section of Russia’s army can mean the triggering of global nuclear war. Nuclear war is never local as winds , waters and foodstuffs move everywhere. That will affect everyone on the Earth.
That is why it is inconceivable that Ukraine will have done it without without at least a “greenlight” from nuclear power and current Hegemon – the USA . This latter nation stands to be in the crosshairs and be nuked to Hell first , as like it or not they are the preeminent and demonstrably culpable enemy of Russia at present in this war.

Posted by: Mustee | Jun 5 2025 8:15 utc | 172

Has Elensky slipped his collar?
Is coke psychosis getting the better of him?
Are the Collective Waste about to throw him under the bus?
Find out next week…
Posted by: ChatNPC

Yes, there is a certain Dickensian sense to the news/propaganda cycle, to keep the viewer hooked.

Posted by: Call it what u will | Jun 5 2025 8:17 utc | 173

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 7:14 utc | 167
RE:
“A direct participation by the us would be considered perfidy as planes were exposed for control and therefore protected.
In a previous thread I mentioned China would be less impacted as trains are easier to control
container ships can be forced to safety cover containers as well”
<< Regarding *perfidy*---the Treaty meant all signatories had to abide (planes visible & in the open), which worked...until the U.S., in a proxy war, enabled its proxy to attack the adversary's Treaty-compliant planes, totally nullifying any kind of U.S. credibility. The U.S. is maintaining First Strike capability by being the first to break the Treaty. Thanks, U.S. Regarding *safety covers* for cargo containers---not unlike why it is that when we buy Tylenol or toothpaste there are tamper-prohibitive seals. Yes, it has come to that. I stood watching a freight-hauling train today, dozens & dozens of containers mounted on rolling stock, thinking of the non-state actors, inspired by Ukraine's terrorism, who could conceal hundreds of bomb-laden drones, timed for that *just right* target deep within a nation unaware of the extent to which *normality* had been weaponized against them.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 5 2025 8:17 utc | 174

Thinking back about the corpses clogging the RF morgues, I don’t think the Russian expected from the banderists to pay whatever they promised to the families.
They know very well what the AFU are doing with most of the dead bodies (unidentified common burial) and it’s already a well known fact the Kiev regime don’t pay anything, neither to most of the dead’s and “disappeared” families nor disabled vets …
They inherited an awful number of bodies following Sudzha operations and needed to get rid of them one way or another, if it can help growing discontent in the poor kokhol’s families… well, it’s a side effect they can deal with ^^.
The “abducted children” case is more interesting as it can help to nullified the case open in the ICC against VVP and other Russians officials and NGO’s

Posted by: Savonarole | Jun 5 2025 8:33 utc | 175

Regarding *safety covers* for cargo containers—not unlike why it is that when we buy Tylenol or toothpaste there are tamper-prohibitive seals.
Yes, it has come to that.
I stood watching a freight-hauling train today, dozens & dozens of containers mounted on rolling stock, thinking of the non-state actors, inspired by Ukraine’s terrorism, who could conceal hundreds of bomb-laden drones, timed for that *just right* target deep within a nation unaware of the extent to which *normality* had been weaponized against them.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Jun 5 2025 8:17 utc | 179
yes, and so far it’s a light version.
Imagine you can use IoT to always know where something is and give instructions
An added module and a toxic chemical/bio-weapon is released at a given location where your target is…
exploding pagers are so last year…
smart pants could give a new, literal, meaning to pants on fire
smart fridge purchases could, for special customers, come from a special warehouse with added “vitamins”
not to mention your IT stuff can suddenly have criminal stuff or have sent less than proper messages…
it’s a paranoid future if you have a bit of imagination

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 8:37 utc | 176

When you listen to right wing populists or even just plain vanilla Conservatives talk.
They spend hours,days, weeks, months and years talking about national sovereignty and how important it is.
Until Scotland puts its hand up that is. The narrative suddenly changes and the lies flow from their mouths in every direction.
Here’s George Galloway talking with Jim Ferguson about the importance of National sovereignty. How crucial it is.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2kH45UJNCyE
Both have spent their entire lives fighting against Scottish independence. Scotland having its own National sovereignty.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Two cheeks of the same arse indeed. Oh boy, does the shit flow out of both of them.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 5 2025 8:37 utc | 177

A small question. Why say trump removed his comment?
Still there
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/114626383407680212
“President Putin did say, and very strongly, that he will have to respond to the recent attack on the airfields.”
Same I first saw and copied to the other thread
But let us consider what is not said
Trump did not advise against
Trump did not soften the “will”
Trump did not limit on whom, where or how
Trump did not warn/threaten consequences

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 8:45 utc | 178

Putin wanted to separate the railway attacks (terrorism) from the airfield attacks (war). This enables him to go for Selensky&co personally – because they are terrorists – as well as ordering a massive military strike as a response to the airfield attacks.
Posted by: mk | Jun 5 2025 8:00 utc | 174
You can wait as long as you like, nothing will happen. The time has passed anyway, more terrorist attacks took place since then but only if you care to read Tass instead of wasting time with youtube merchandise beggars.
I don’t know why people still talk about terrorism when Russians don’t care about it at all. It was not the first time, not the worst and won’t be the last. If they were happy to be blown up by cluster ammo on the beach, you must accept their choice to live the Gaza life.
Airfield attacks are not “Ukr” smo, they would not be considered acceptable by anyone outside third world. Since it was done by US, FR and UK as nuclear weapon owners, it should trigger some sort of response for them. From political, economic or to least shoot down the drones that fly over Black Sea to scan and target the attacks.
They’ve sunk to a level so deep in third world that when Germany stole their “shadow fleet” ship full of oil they did not do anything. Only when Baltic insects tried (and failed) to steal an empty ship, they sent a Mig to watch from the sky because it was after the failure anyway. They can’t even simulate interest properly.

Posted by: rk | Jun 5 2025 8:46 utc | 179

@Newbie | Jun 5 2025 8:45 utc | 183

A small question. Why say trump removed his comment?

Because he removed it and put it back a few minutes later. If you are interested in the details the information is out there like it is for all of us.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2025 8:52 utc | 180

“Alexander Mercouris discussed Putin’s internal speech to govt and received the impression, that the attacks on the airfields were considered legitimate military targets and part of warfare, and retaliation will be similar.”
What would be still very diplomatic, because the tactic used to attack the airfields was still a war crime after Geneva Conventions and the Roman Statute.
It’s not allowed to disguise yourself as civilians to do such attacks, because this leads to the obvious point, that civilians, civilian vehicles and civilian buildings can’t get any protection anymore, when an enemy is abusing them as cover for sneak attacks.
There is some grey area when it comes to logistic and alike or fighting in a war zone, where for example Ukraine loves to hide inside the cities in general (what you could also discuss as questionable tactics, since they clearly don’t care to protect these cities but exploit them, absolut fine with their total destruction, but that’s not the point here…).
But these attacks were SOLELY possibly by using civilian vehicles as disguise.
Of course the Banderite regime is doing this and much worse since the start, so for Putin it’s likely just pointless to point at this, because the west won’t care anyway and the dead and injured civilians are overall a bigger problem than them old soviet planes. Regarding the whole “attack of nuclear bombers” – well, the west knows exactly about where this will lead. This is likely the main reason, why the NATO simply forbid their proxy Nazis to attack the actual valueable bomber.

Posted by: Beatrice | Jun 5 2025 8:52 utc | 181

One thing I didn’t like about the latest Kerch bridge attack was that Ukr/NATO seemed to have hacked into the cameras monitoring the bridge. Given what a prestige target it is, that’s not good at all.
In the early days of the war, there used to be various pro-Ukr youtube sites with live webcams, showing both Ukraine held and rebel-held territory – for example I could look at the mostly-deserted area of Bakhmut near the Palace of Culture. Very occasionally you’d see an army vehicle pass or park up.
There was one set of shop cams they featured on the east side of Donetsk – the car park outside , the road, and the shop interior. You’d see military vehicles pull up and volunteers buying at the shop counter. You could hear the odd explosion, Donetsk was near front line then.
Thinking now, a good job today’s kit wasn’t available. Or the truck would have pulled up and been wiped out five minutes later.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Jun 5 2025 8:56 utc | 182

What would be still very diplomatic, because the tactic used to attack the airfields was still a war crime after Geneva Conventions and the Roman Statute.
Posted by: Beatrice | Jun 5 2025 8:52 utc | 187
Bit of a grey zone, if when they opened the roof they hoist the jolly roger (AFU colors) , it’s just a ruse to get there
No doubt on the other hand of a protection assumed for those participating by treaty or tradition on START. Perfidy would apply.

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 8:59 utc | 183

Do you think Nigel Farage who has spent 30 years promoting British national sovereignty is going to give Scotland it’s national sovereignty ?
Do you think ( insert any right wing populist here ) who win elections by promoting national sovereignty. Is going to give the global South or smaller countries the right to govern themselves ?
Le Pen and Alice Weidel and Farage would act like Tippu Tip and King Ghezoin in Africa.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 5 2025 9:06 utc | 184

Because he removed it and put it back a few minutes later. If you are interested in the details the information is out there like it is for all of us.
Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2025 8:52 utc | 186
I found the part about removal, asked as I didn’t see the rest
Even I do more than a bit of diagonal browsing, too many posts
Tried to make it wortwile by adding some comments on what is not said.
Speaking of interesting …
Even politico is calling the base strikes a pyrrhic, probably unrepeatable, victory
Meanwhile, according to Oleh Ivashchenko, head of the Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine, Russia plans to produce approximately 3,000 long-range missiles in 2025, including 750 Iskander ballistic missiles and more than 560 Kh-101 missiles. And though exactly how many Patriot missiles Ukraine has on hand is a closely guarded secret, most military observers suspect it’s less than 200. Even if Trump were to replenish the stock, or allow Ukraine to buy more missiles and batteries, Lockheed Martin only plans to boost missile output to 600 or so per year, and even a sympathetic administration wouldn’t want all of them transferred to Ukraine.
Essentially, the math just isn’t in Ukraine’s favor. Hence, the country’s commanders are now focusing on the air bases of bombers that fire ballistic missiles and stage missile storage facilities. And perhaps we will see a repeat of Sunday’s attack, but it will be a very tall order, indeed.

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 9:08 utc | 185

Posted by: Mario | Jun 5 2025 6:27 utc | 162
Indeed, the hubris on display at ‘giving Putin a black eye’ (or Israel dealing a body blow to Hezbollah) is truly idiotic – once the idea has been implemented then others will follow, with more sophisticated means, more cheaply and more dastardly.
I remember a time when only the US had drones capable of killing remotely and with impunity. Then IS got the idea of weaponising consumer grade drones, now they are viewed as the future of warfare for even the most threadbare military. Soon the criminal gangs will pick up on it and anyone anywhere can be targeted for the slightest reason.
Such is the nature of new tech in weaponry.
There was a time when the US was the sole nuclear power and it set off an infection of megalomania from which they suffer to this day.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 5 2025 9:33 utc | 186

Posted by: juliania | Jun 5 2025 0:03 utc | 109
I also join the choir on singing your praises , Juliana. Yes, you do add value , and I also look out especially for your contributions.
You , amongst others , have said that Russia did not have it in writing that NATO- read the USA-would not spread further East. That is true ; there was no treaty, but there were numerous memoranda ( even in major US personalities’ handwriting), discussions , media reports and body-language witnessed by neutral others that all meant that NATO would not expand. It was a verbal contract , with written notes, at the bare minimum , and even verbal contracts are enforceable in any Anglosphere court of the land. Let people not forget that the US itself has also entered into many verbal contracts ie the Gentleman’s Agreement on East Asian immigration to the US about one hundred years ago.
They still happen; much of the war behaviour in the Ukraine of the last three years has been ‘ curated’ via verbal contracts between Russian and US Presidents and leaders of intelligence and defence.
In any case, treaties signed by the US have had their own signers wipe their feet with them many times and still do. I could give examples of treaties trampled on by the US in the past and even a few days ago. The New Start for one , by the USA. Yes, Russia and the US have not had reciprocal site visits for over five years, and yes Russia did suspend it in 2022 but it is still formally in operation to be renewed in 2026. The reciprocal groups still exchange important information and supposedly show their bombers on the tarmacs uncovered.
The US did contractually promise to not expand NATO, even Blind Freddy knows this and the US coming up with excuses only convinces dunces and sneaks. The US did piss on Russia and still tell them and the rest of us that no…it was just the rain…

Posted by: Mustee | Jun 5 2025 9:33 utc | 187

Indeed, the hubris on display at ‘giving Putin a black eye’ (or Israel dealing a body blow to Hezbollah) is truly idiotic – once the idea has been implemented then others will follow, with more sophisticated means, more cheaply and more dastardly.
Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 5 2025 9:33 utc | 193
With all new air and underwater drones, borders become sieves, not walls

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 9:37 utc | 188

“Bit of a grey zone, if when they opened the roof they hoist the jolly roger (AFU colors) , it’s just a ruse to get there”
No, because getting there is the whole point. Obviously when you attack you drop that disguise.
It’s simply the exact same thing as driving a civilian truck full of TNT toward a military base, abusing the protection for civilians by the Genevan Convention to get there what you could never do by using a clearly marked vehicle.
And you can say this is even worse, because a bombe got only so much range, but these drones can fly for miles, so you would have to see anything in that range as potential, military threat.
And of course when an enemy is doing that one time for such an attack, you must assume that they will continue to do that. EVERYWHERE.
That’s why it’s a warcrime. It’s not about that special case, it’s about the general consequences.
When you start to use civilian vehicles for military attacks, ALL civilian vehicles are now military targets, because you can’t see from the outside, if it is a threat or not. That’s the reason why those rules of war demand from the military to mark their units, be it soldiers, vehicles or buildings.
Again: this GOT a grey area in a warzone, where there is not really any difference anymore and the general assumption is, that only military remains in that area anyway. And of course you can use other means to not be discovered in general.
The problem is the abuse of the protection of civilians. That’s the no-go, the war crime.

Posted by: Beatrice | Jun 5 2025 9:41 utc | 189

Posted by: Mustee | Jun 5 2025 9:33 utc | 194
You are absolute right about the enforceablity of oral agreement in the Anglosphere. The Cuban Missle Crisis was resovled with an oral agreement between the leaders of the US and the USSR. What is going on right now is the worst lying, deception and bad faith ever witnessed on the part of Western elites who are desperate to maintain power and control at any cost.

Posted by: Checks and Balances | Jun 5 2025 9:53 utc | 190

worst lying, deception and bad faith ever witnessed on the part of Western elites who are desperate to maintain power and control at any cost.
Posted by: Checks and Balances | Jun 5 2025 9:53 utc | 197

the whole eu/uk/us are in essence just state sponsors of terrorism at this point.
a shame that the majority of its people go along with this moral depravity. one can only hope that at some point in the future, all of them are going to carry the sins of their fathers (and mostly mothers, seeing with who is the loudest like ursula et al) just as we germans have to obey till this day.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Jun 5 2025 10:03 utc | 191

Tentative – Ukraine has lost access to Maxar hi-res satellite imagery:
Ukraine War Day #1198: Maxar Hacked
Not sure it has been hacked (why not sooner?) or if it has been switched off and ‘Putin’s hackers’ are taking the blame/credit.
Interesting if true, either way.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 5 2025 10:56 utc | 192

Not sure it has been hacked (why not sooner?) or if it has been switched off and ‘Putin’s hackers’ are taking the blame/credit.
Interesting if true, either way.
Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 5 2025 10:56 utc | 200
Whoever it was could leak all secret Ukraine photos

Posted by: Newbie | Jun 5 2025 11:00 utc | 193

bears repeating:

When you start to use civilian vehicles for military attacks, ALL civilian vehicles are now military targets, because you can’t see from the outside, if it is a threat or not. That’s the reason why those rules of war demand from the military to mark their units, be it soldiers, vehicles or buildings.
Posted by: Beatrice

Posted by: Exile | Jun 5 2025 11:02 utc | 194

You are absolute right about the enforceablity of oral agreement in the Anglosphere. The Cuban Missle Crisis was resovled with an oral agreement between the leaders of the US and the USSR
Posted by: Checks and Balances | Jun 5 2025 9:53 utc | 197
_______
— which the USA, ever true to form, promptly violated.

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 5 2025 11:07 utc | 195

Posted by: Exile | Jun 5 2025 11:02 utc | 202
Thinking a little further, we need only recall the response to the use of civilian airliners as guided missiles on 9/11.
It fired the starting gun of the authoritarian crackdown to ‘keep us safe’ from terrorists.
All the TSA and its abuses, the Patriot Act and all of its abuses and the full implementation of the surveillance state that has destroyed what it means to live as free individual in a democracy.
Perhaps this is the real reason Western politicians are so ecstatic – they get another big bite on that cherry.
Digital IDs, CBDCs, security checkpoints, citizenry as the enemy within…
Problem, reaction, solution.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 5 2025 11:12 utc | 196

Posted by: Who Cares | Jun 4 2025 18:29 utc | 17 “an Ukrainian soldier lost on the battlefield but not retrieved for identification will be listed missing for three years before they switch them to KIA.”
Effectively a distinction without a difference. Either way they aren’t there to help out.
BTW in Russia its 2 years — after the end of the conflict according to Article 45 of Civil Code of Russia.

Posted by: ed4 | Jun 5 2025 11:16 utc | 197

https://www.flightradar24.com/3aa75baa
US Bombardier Challenger 650 Artemis (CL60) on the Black Sea beat.
Earlier and yesterday a Romanian Airforce Beechcraft King Air 350 was doing lots of circles in the area.
“It is also used in specialized military roles. For instance, the Royal Air Force (RAF) operates the Shadow R1 variant, which is based on the King Air 350CER platform. This aircraft is equipped with advanced sensors and communication systems for intelligence gathering. Additionally, the Royal Navy uses the Avenger, another variant of the King Air 350ER, to train naval observers in managing sensor equipment. The King Air 350 is favored for its adaptability and reliability, often fitted with sophisticated mission equipment including hyper spectral imaging systems, wide area motion imaging (WAMI), LIDAR systems, and more.”

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Jun 5 2025 11:17 utc | 198

https://www.flightradar24.com/3aa833d6
Antonov An-124-100 Ruslan from Wroclaw, currently headed straight for the Ukraine border. Could be going to Deblin.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Jun 5 2025 11:22 utc | 199

@ChatNPC | Jun 5 2025 11:12 utc | 204

Thinking a little further, we need only recall the response to the use of civilian airliners as guided missiles on 9/11.

“Response” like an arsonist responding to his own fire. And … the planes were just distractions, they did did not cause the towers to turn to dust.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 5 2025 11:23 utc | 200