Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 18, 2025
Tic-Toc Thread On The War On Iran – 4

Alastair Crooke is summarizing the first days of USrael's war on Iran:

The situation in the broadest terms is that the attempt by Israel and allied Intelligence services to launch a surprise ‘synergistic psychic-shock’ to the Iranian state through simultaneous muti-domain decapitations, assassinations of scientists, disruption of Air Defence systems and the insertion of drone saboteur teams, failed.

It failed in its expected outcome — that of paralysing and panicking the Iranian leadership and even creating the space for ‘the hoped for’ regime-change vibe to take hold. (It never happened. Iranians buried political differences and rallied to national sovereignty).

Rather, despite the loss of eight military line commanders, the system quickly re-booted itself: the Air Defence systems were restored within 8 hours, and Iran retaliated with missile attacks on Israel.

The point here was that – other than superficial surface damage – there was no setback made to Iran’s nuclear programme. And to be clear, that was never the Israeli aim. They simply do not have the ability to destroy infrastructure buried 800 metres into mountains. They (with their allies — the US and European States) rather hope for ‘regime change’.

[…]

So, the situation has inverted from that of 13 June. Israel now is in big trouble: Its Air Defences are performing badly and it is Israel sustaining (verified) substantive damage to key assets. Basically, every politician in Israel now is begging the US to enter the war for them.

Israeli Minister & Cabinet member, Gila Gamliel: “We categorically demand that the United States join the war against Iran”.

While it first looked yesterday as if Trump may join the war with more overt action that changed after a meeting with his national security council.

As Larry Johnson observes:

Trump continued his intemperate postings on Truth Social until he convened a meeting of his National Security Council in Washington, DC this afternoon.

Something happened in that meeting to derail what seemed to be an inevitable collision with Iran because Trump’s subsequent social media posts only focused on mundane domestic matters, such as erecting two new flag poles on the White House grounds. I have seen one news item claiming that Trump is giving Iran 24 hours to surrender. That ain’t going to happen.

Ayatollah Khamenei confirms that this "ain't going to happen":

Khamenei.ir @khamenei_ir – 11:18 UTC · Jun 18, 2025

The US President threatens us. With his absurd rhetoric, he demands that the Iranian people surrender to him.
They should make threats against those who are afraid of being threatened. The Iranian nation isn’t frightened by such threats.

Since the first day of the war there have been waves of attacks by Israeli forces against Iran each followed by a wave of missile attacks by Iranian forces. Neither side has sufficient air defenses to prevent all hits. Neither side has air supremacy over the territory of the other country.

Iran has intercepted long range drones from Israel. It claims to have shot down several F-35 airplanes but has shown no proof for that. Israel has made claims of having hit Iranian missile launchers. But the video evidence of such strikes is poor and many hits seem to have been on decoys.

The tit for tat strike exchange is likely to continue for a while. Iran has several thousand of missiles. It is firing a mix of old ones, which can be intercepted, with a number of new ones which can't. It has changed its tactic from one big strike per day to multiple strikes per day with smaller numbers.

Israel's air defense seems prone to hit itself. The number of interceptors it is using is limited the Wall Street journal says (archived). It may be less than two weeks before those run out.

Israel claims to have launched some 800 sorties against Iran with which it hit 1,000 targets. It also claims that Iran has fired 400 missiles and 1,000 drones of which only 20 missiles reached their targets while only 200 drones reached Israel but did not hit anywhere. I can assure you that none of those numbers is true.

Both sides censor the results of strikes. From what is known both appear to have taken some significant damage.

But Iran is the much bigger country. It has more than ten times the people than Israel. Its area is 1.5 million square kilometer versus Israel's 21,000 square kilometer. Iran is mostly self sufficient. It has a widely dispersed industry and a well trained work force which can be switched from civil to military production. Israel depends on imports which can be interrupted. Its industry is small and highly concentrated in a few areas.

There is no doubt that Iran would win in a (long) war of attrition.

That is why Israel needs the U.S. to jump in.

I still have doubt that Trump, despite his rhetoric, is willing to do so. The risk is high and the outcome uncertain. Even if U.S. bombers manage to demolish Iran's centrifuges, buried below mountains, Iran will be able to reconstitute its nuclear program within a few months.

His intelligence people will tell him that this threat is not empty:

Khamenei.ir @khamenei_ir – 11:38 UTC · Jun 18, 2025

The US entering in this matter [war] is 100% to its own detriment. The damage it will suffer will be far greater than any harm that Iran may encounter.

At the UN Security Council Russia and China have taken strong positions against Israel's war of aggression. Neither can be expected to give overt support to Iran – at least not yet. The content of a few transport planes from China arriving in Iran will not change the big picture.

Comments

Posted by: rert | Jun 18 2025 17:35 utc | 185
And Iran have today shot down their fifth F-35. Israel only has forty, and who knows how many have been destroyed on the ground? Plus their long down-times mean that most of the strikes now will have to be stand-off by non-stealth aircraft.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 17:47 utc | 201

just seen this – SO IT IS ALMOST OVER THEN FOR IRAN! Comments? The Oracle by Polymarket for news and insights from the world’s largest prediction market. Join 54,863 readers who trust markets, not experts. Subscribe Free
“Belikewater” (@Just_Curius on X) is a professional forecaster and member of the Sentinel Global Risks Watch forecasting team. When we last covered their forecast of war with Iran in late March, she had the highest odds on the team for a hot conflict to erupt, which was a contrarian call at the time. The Oracle spoke to her on Monday, June 16 about her latest forecast: that the Iranian regime has just weeks left.

Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Jun 18 2025 17:47 utc | 202

A bunker buster, on the other hand, is thousands of times more power, period. There is no plasma.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 18 2025 17:30 utc | 177

Fun facts:
– concrete typically has a compressive strength ranging from 2,500 to 5,000 psi.
– the compressive strength of granite is between 14,000 to 51,000 psi.
– GBU-57A/B can penetrate up to 200 feet (61 m) of reinforced concrete or soil.
– Iran’s nuclear sites are under solid granite.
https://www.google.com/search?q=natanz+granite

Posted by: too scents | Jun 18 2025 17:48 utc | 203

The IRGC said Iran had fired the Sajjil medium-range missile in combat for the first time, Tasnim reported.

Posted by: Apollyon | Jun 18 2025 17:49 utc | 204

STATEMENT 🇮🇷 IRGC Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps:
Either choose a slow death in the hell of shelters or save your lives from the relentless barrage of missiles!
The commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) has warned you that the gates of hell will open upon you.
The IRGC’s thunderous missiles will not allow you to emerge from your underground shelters for a single moment. You have not seen the color of the sun for days.

https://x.com/MonitorX99800/status/1935393494022893898

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 17:51 utc | 205

The US Embassy in Jerusalem announced the organization of flights and evacuation ships to evacuate American citizens from Israel
https://x.com/SprinterObserve/status/1935392064331452725
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 17:44 utc | 196
Quite early, compared to the stunts in Saigon and Kabul.

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Jun 18 2025 17:51 utc | 206

Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Jun 18 2025 17:47 utc | 202
“her latest forecast: that the Iranian regime has just weeks left.”
Absolutely. My crystal ball though, says three months as opposed to Israels two weeks.
Of course my crystal ball has a pro-Iranian bias, whereas I believe hers has a pro-Israeli one. But time will, as usual, tell.
PS Experienced Indian Diplomat M. K. Bhadrakumar reports that Israel has asked Iran via diplomatic channels for a return to talks.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 17:53 utc | 207

With China refusing to export license magnets and some rare earths, no more F-35s will be made. Each is now a collector’s piece.
Every F-35 removed is serious attrition. Westerners cannot fight on the ground and soon won’t be able to attack in the air.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 17:53 utc | 208

SharpElbow | Jun 18 2025 17:45 utc | 197
Big Serge’s take from his latest essay on Ukraine.
“Now, those who have been reading my work for some time no that I am not the type to wring my hands about “international law”, which I view as an essentially nonsensical concept. International Law is not really law, but only an institutionalized mechanism for the strong to constrain the weak. Nor, for that matter, does hypocrisy really matter. What matters, and particularly in war time, is not what a state is “allowed” to do by international law, but what it is able to do, and what sort of risk appetite it has.”

Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 18 2025 17:53 utc | 209

The US Embassy in Jerusalem announced the organization of flights and evacuation ships to evacuate American citizens from Israel
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 17:44 utc | 196
_______
Would this include those Americans who, being US/Zionist Entity dual citizens, are forbidden by that Entity to leave? ;-D

Posted by: malenkov | Jun 18 2025 17:55 utc | 210

And one more comment, this time about maintenance!
https://sonar21.com/the-silver-lining-in-the-dark-war-cloud-over-iran/
Here, Johnson states that an F-35 needs 30 hours of maintenance after an attack. In other words, with a little wiggle room, a given F-35 can only attack once every other day. Meanwhile, according to Wikipedia, Israel has… 45… F-35s. And it claims it sent out a wave of 50 planes today (but didn’t specify the composition). And we don’t know how many of those 45 planes it had at the start were destroyed by Iran on the ground.
F-16 is better, and needs only about 15 hours of mainenance after an attack, meaning it’s theoretically able to attack once per day. Israel had 174 of those at the start. It also had 66 F-15 which probably isn’t too different than F-16 in the maintenance department.
All in all, it’ll be interesting to keep tracking Israel’s Air Force and seeing how often it sends out attack waves.

Posted by: rert | Jun 18 2025 17:56 utc | 211

@203
A B-2 delivered a ground penetration bomb on a small Houthi tunnel it was operating in a few hours.
U$$A does not have enough bombs or B-2.
The thing needs to be accurate in 3D, considering soil/rock features.
Nukes would be surface burst big radiation plumes.

Posted by: paddy | Jun 18 2025 17:56 utc | 212

Lathe Biosas | Jun 18 2025 16:45 utc | 123
“Iran does not have a nuclear weapons programme, as per the USA’s own Intel agencies. It has the right, as all countries, to pursue nuclear energy for civilian purposes and nobody can tell it not to.”
Far more, Iran has the right, as all countries, to develop nuclear weapons. If on account of the IAEA’s long-running treachery Iran really, finally has denounced the NPT and withdrawn from it, it’s about time. It’s been pathetic how they were begging to be duped again by the exact same JCPOA scam that fooled them before.
“Given, also, that its archenemy is armed, illegally, with nuclear weapons, an Iranian nuclear weapons programme would be understandable.”
They should have learned a long time ago, from the examples of Saddam and Qadafi on one hand, and Korea on the other, that developing nukes was a security necessity, since the US and the Zionists obviously are never going allow them to live in peace with a purely civilian nuclear program. That was never an option. To talk about Iran’s “rights” has no contact with reality.
(One might say that if Iran lacked the resolve to build a bomb, they would have been better off dropping their entire nuclear program, same way that someone who lacks the guts to actually use a gun is probably better off not carrying one at all. But I doubt the US/Zionists would have left them alone then either. So that leaves no alternative: Iran needs to develop nuclear weapons as fast as can possibly be done.)

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Jun 18 2025 17:57 utc | 213

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 17:44 utc | 196
Question is how many Israelis are dual passport holders with a (genuine) US passport.
My guess (apropos of nothing) would be a few hundred thousand, at least.
This could go beyond a helicopters on the roof of the embassy moment.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 18 2025 17:58 utc | 214

https://t.me/intelslava/76525?single

Posted by: Apollyon | Jun 18 2025 17:58 utc | 215

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Jun 18 2025 17:51 utc | 206
Those identikit photos of helicopters over official building are now too cliched to bear a repeat. Probably orderly queues will be the standard for the next two or three evacuations, until a new fashion emerges – maybe anti-gravity machines hovering over a bunker – somewhere in Idaho.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 17:58 utc | 216

The build up continues.
” Twelve F-22 Raptors out of Langley AFB are en route to RAF Lakenheath as TABOR51 (x4), TABOR61 (x4), and TABOR71 (x4), to be deployed to Muwaffaq Salti AB in Jordan.”
https://nitter.poast.org/GlobeWarReport/status/1935383932100612397#m

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 18 2025 18:00 utc | 217

Apollyon | Jun 18 2025 17:49 utc | 204–
Al-Mayadeen says Gush Dan is the target, which is the first time I’ve seen it name a specific target.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 18 2025 18:00 utc | 218

Posted by: Madrigal99 | Jun 18 2025 17:32 utc | 182
Civilians casualty is never a good indicator of a winning action except if you are a terrorist.
Izzies probably think so.

Posted by: Mario | Jun 18 2025 18:00 utc | 219

@201
US will lend F-15,16, and 35!
US will give all the spare engines theIDF wear out. Other spare parts will drain from US kit.
The already shameful low mission capable rate of USAF fighters will go down.
Good money though.
Eventually the pilots wear down. Would US lend pilots?

Posted by: paddy | Jun 18 2025 18:01 utc | 220

@187 c1ue
So this is the moment of truth within the presidency of DJT.
Either he bombs Iran and loses MAGA and the conflagration will be enormous
Or…
He affirms MAGA, refuses to bomb Iran, Israel is left to fend for themselves, and American power projection is permanently weakened and thus begins its terminal decline. In the meanwhile, all of Trump’s friends, cronies, and Jewish handlers are destitute as a result.
My money is on the former.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Jun 18 2025 18:03 utc | 221

The US Embassy in Jerusalem announced the organization of flights and evacuation ships to evacuate American citizens from Israel
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 17:44 utc | 196
Bibi Satan is worried that if the place is empty Hell will descend on the Land Of Zion.
His tribal kin in Kiev had similar worries about the cities emptying out making the job for Russia easy.
These little devils are baked from the same poison.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 18 2025 18:04 utc | 222

Madrigal99 @182:
I agree with you. The Israeli regime is toast.

Posted by: SLM | Jun 18 2025 18:05 utc | 223

By attacking Iran, we are pushing Iran to acquire nuclear weapons so Iran can develop unmolested, but if every country needs nuclear weapons to avoid being overthrown by the US or its proxies, we are in for a wild ride.

Posted by: Passerby | Jun 18 2025 18:05 utc | 224

ChatNPC | Jun 18 2025 17:58 utc | 214–
One wonders with the ports and airports closed how anyone’s going to be evacuated or resupply can occur.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 18 2025 18:06 utc | 225

First picture – Russian Oreshnik missile (IRBM)
“Second picture – Iran’s new missile (suspected ICBM/MRBM)”
https://nitter.poast.org/MonitorX99800/status/1935393816594276626#m
Is this it?
The 12th wave of the Sadeq 3 promise began with the firing of long-range, two-stage super-heavy missiles Sajil.
https://nitter.poast.org/GlobeWarReport/status/1935391466198811066#m

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 18 2025 18:07 utc | 226

The Americans like to attack over the weekend when the markets are closed plus they adore good viewing figures.
Probably Fri or Sat night.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 18 2025 18:07 utc | 227

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 17:58 utc | 216
I second that. Beam me up, James!

Posted by: MorePain4Cakes | Jun 18 2025 18:08 utc | 228

“An interesting detail that is almost unnoticed against the backdrop of the strikes on Iran: the first missiles fired at the country’s territory flew almost simultaneously with the launch of the new railway route From China to Iran. First train from Xi’an arrived at the Iranian logistics hub Aprin on May 25, 2025”
Something happens very roughly temporally (within a month), and thus is related to it… sounds more like the author trying to fit facts to hypothesis.

Posted by: Call it what u will | Jun 18 2025 18:09 utc | 229

like to attack over the weekend when the markets are closed
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 18 2025 18:07 utc | 227

The US markets are closed tomorrow.

Posted by: too scents | Jun 18 2025 18:09 utc | 230

Posted by: Passerby | Jun 18 2025 18:05 utc | 224
I wouldn’t worry. According to various Senate Committees, the USA has a special agreement with the UFO people for Technology Transfer, so that US planes will both become invisible and non-existent. It’s the coming thing, believe them.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 18:10 utc | 231

rert | Jun 18 2025 17:56 utc | 211
There is not only the down time. US aircraft need clean runways. Tiniest bit of debris gets sucked in the intake on take off and the engine is cactus. Wherever they are operating from, they are likely rotating with american F-35’s
I did read the downtime for f-35 a year or two back. For 100 aircraft, only about 20-30 are servicable and in the air at any one time.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 18 2025 18:10 utc | 232

One wonders with the ports and airports closed how anyone’s going to be evacuated or resupply can occur.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 18 2025 18:06 utc | 225
######
We’ve seen this movie before.
Rooftops.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:11 utc | 233

Re my (226) comment, is this what they are capable of?
“IRGC issues a statement
12th wave of Operation True Promise 3 began with launch of heavy, long-range, two-stage Sejjil missiles.
Type: Two-stage solid-propellant.
Speed: Re-entry speed around Mach 12 to 14 (about 4,300 km/h).
Range: 2,000–2,500 km, capable of hitting Israel and parts of Eastern Europe.”
https://nitter.poast.org/MonitorX99800/status/1935391537619235048#m

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 18 2025 18:11 utc | 234

Surrender??
Iranian military planes in Oman
https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1935345663560081550

Posted by: Jerr | Jun 18 2025 18:12 utc | 235

And Iran have today shot down their fifth F-35. Israel only has forty, and who knows how many have been destroyed on the ground? Plus their long down-times mean that most of the strikes now will have to be stand-off by non-stealth aircraft.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 17:47 utc | 201
Even if it was true and israeli airframe losses became critical the West could replace them, even going as far as stripping combat squadrons and sending pilots. But I think the US will “take over” soon so the issue is moot.
The question then becomes of Iran can mantain cohesion and China is willing to send them enough materials to keep them in the fight.

Posted by: Satepestage | Jun 18 2025 18:14 utc | 236

Another follow up comment to my (226) and (234) comments.
“Some Iranian media outlets claim that only one intercontinental ballistic missile was fired towards Israel, and its purpose was to warn the US and NATO”
https://nitter.poast.org/MonitorX99800/status/1935390095173107730#m

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 18 2025 18:14 utc | 237

For 100 aircraft, only about 20-30 are servicable and in the air at any one time.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 18 2025 18:10 utc | 232

I asked upthread what the relative throw weight of the combatants is.
An F35 can carry has a load out of about 7 tons.
Iran’s ballistic missiles have a throw weight of 1-2 tons.
The calculus depends upon the tempo and stamina of the volleys.
The F35 kill chain doesn’t seem particularly robust.

Posted by: too scents | Jun 18 2025 18:15 utc | 238

Posted by: Jerr | Jun 18 2025 18:12 utc | 235
#######
Those are emergency planes, evacuated to safety.
The Iranians are not going to surrender. America is screwed.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:15 utc | 239

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 18 2025 18:10 utc | 232
And as five out of a possible forty have now been shot down by Iran, (plus whatever caught on the ground) they can’t really rely on ‘stealth’ any more (what a surprise!) so they too will just be stand-off units like the non-stealth ones, only with lower availability.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 18:16 utc | 240

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 18 2025 18:11 utc | 234
Publically available information which is dated. I think the first test was 2008. There may be a “version II” or even III by now. The Iranians have been very focused on missile (and drone) tech for many years now. I think the original accuracy estimate was +/- 50m. The Iranians now have satellites.

Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 18 2025 18:16 utc | 241

The Americans like to attack over the weekend when the markets are closed plus they adore good viewing figures.
Probably Fri or Sat night.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 18 2025 18:07 utc | 227
Good point! It would be like Trump to wait until Friday night then expect Iran to have surrendered before Monday opening.
Iran close the Strait now! Before Trump’s people can sell high.

Posted by: EoinW | Jun 18 2025 18:17 utc | 242

The US markets are closed tomorrow.
Posted by: too scents | Jun 18 2025 18:09 utc | 230
National independence day ?
That sounds like a thing they would do. Fascists love their symbols and symbolic gestures.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 18 2025 18:18 utc | 243

At some point, we may see the Iranian air force.
It may end up being like the Pakistani air force versus India.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:18 utc | 244

It seems to me that the Israelis have been launching more attacks than they have planes for. 5 will get you 10 that the US air force has been secretly participating all along.
All this passport talk reminds me of “The Killing Fields”. Creating fake passports to get out of the country. I bet someone is making a killing by manufacturing and selling fake US passports.

Posted by: EoinW | Jun 18 2025 18:21 utc | 245

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 17:47 utc | 201 “And Iran have today shot down their fifth F-35.”
We were told on MOA they lost a bunch last year when Iran hit the airbases that the IDF stored them at. So less than 35 now according to some here?

Posted by: ed4 | Jun 18 2025 18:21 utc | 246

We were told on MOA…
Posted by: ed4 | Jun 18 2025 18:21 utc | 246
#####
And here I thought all of your information was provided by Brussels or Tel Aviv. LOL

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:22 utc | 247

Posted by: Satepestage | Jun 18 2025 18:14 utc | 236
It has been reliably reported.
But the laugh is that the USA has spent literally billions on these turkeys in the now utterly disproven belief that they would be able to operate safely and ‘unseen’ by radar. Apart from that now non-existent quality, in all other respects these planes are inferior in almost every respect to previous 50 year old models. How Lockheed-Martin must have been laughing while they raked in huge profits from the US taxpayer

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 18:22 utc | 248

5 will get you 10 that the US air force has been secretly participating all along.
Posted by: EoinW | Jun 18 2025 18:21 utc | 245

Aaron Bushnell didn’t self immolate for nothing.

Posted by: too scents | Jun 18 2025 18:23 utc | 249

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 17:53 utc | 208

Wasn’t early last week CN and US agreed to mini-deal for 6mo that explicitly allowed said magnets rare earths trade to continue? That was the headline anyway, thus I assumed things are still flowing for 6mo so the defense industry could place mega-orders immediately and build up stockpiles over the next 6mo.

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 18 2025 18:23 utc | 250

Too Funny!! Tomorrow is Juneteenth within the Outlaw US Empire and is a federal holiday.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 18 2025 18:24 utc | 251

@Tom_12 | Jun 18 2025 17:34 utc | 184

Mr. Marandi is back online.
“>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyOiuMRn_Mg&ab_channel=DannyHaiphong

This is simply extraordinary. Thank you. A historical document.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 18 2025 18:24 utc | 252

Apropos the stories of zionazi infiltration of Iran, I suspect it is exaggerated and that once used, such infiltrators as there are won’t be at large for long.

Posted by: Squeeth | Jun 18 2025 18:24 utc | 253

The US markets are closed tomorrow.
Posted by: too scents | Jun 18 2025 18:09 utc | 230
June 19th? Why? Lou Gehrig Day? Don’t tell me they made Paula Abdul’s birthday a national holiday!
I don’t mind as long as they haven’t just created another woke holiday.

Posted by: EoinW | Jun 18 2025 18:25 utc | 254

maybe anti-gravity machines hovering over a bunker – somewhere in Idaho.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 17:58 utc | 216
Read a memoir by a vietnam vet about an anti gravity craft which came to transport bags of drugs stored in the base there.

Posted by: Michael J | Jun 18 2025 18:26 utc | 255

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 18:22 utc | 248
Apologies for the incompetent phraseology.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 18:26 utc | 256

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:18 utc | 244 “At some point, we may see the Iranian air force.”
What is supposed to be left of it at this point? And what is left to direct it someplace? So if something does show it won’t be that effective.
So my guess is the odds of that are very, very low. I mean, why did they leave those helicopter gunships sitting out in the open for a couple of days after the war began? Anyone have an idea what they hit those with? It didn’t look like a very big bomb – or a bomb at all – didn’t notice a crater. Same for that 707 they used for airborne refueling. Meaning they aren’t sucking up much in the way of ordnance if the claim is they are at least a distraction.

Posted by: ed4 | Jun 18 2025 18:26 utc | 257

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 17:47 utc | 201 “And Iran have today shot down their fifth F-35.”
This is wartime; you shouldn’t believe anything from any side without proof. If Iran managed to shoot down a plane, they should obviously show it to the world.

Posted by: Rageman | Jun 18 2025 18:26 utc | 258

“Everyone” waiting for the Usians to firmly lodge themselves deep enough into the trap. Looks like it could take a while.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jun 18 2025 18:27 utc | 259

Re ‘stealth’
For the strikes into Syria a few years back, the Israeli’s would use the F-35 but even then they would stay very wide of the old S-200 installations with upgraded electronics.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 18 2025 18:27 utc | 260

Republicofscotland | Jun 18 2025 18:14 utc | 237
“IRGC Aerospace Forces announce they launched a two-stage ‘Sejjil’ MRBM at Israel for the first time”
It did not reach anything, was shot down by someone on its way, that would be US or RF

Posted by: rk | Jun 18 2025 18:27 utc | 261

How Lockheed-Martin must have been laughing while they raked in huge profits from the US taxpayer
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 18:22 utc | 248
Nope, we are laughing at you for using the words ” US taxpayer”.
When Lockheed-Martin account just gets marked up using an index finger and a computer keyboard at the FED.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 18 2025 18:27 utc | 262

Posted by: Michael J | Jun 18 2025 18:26 utc | 255
That man was a prophet 🙂

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 18:28 utc | 263

“Strait of Hormuz closed, global financial markets disrupted, energy infrastructure damaged
Oil prices will jump to $400 per barrel.”
Economic effects are surely something that the US has warplanned as a known unknown (whether or not Iran acts to close Hormuz).
The real items for Iran are the unknown unknowns, like their true missile capabilities.

Posted by: Call it what u will | Jun 18 2025 18:28 utc | 264

I am not a military man but I have a question about the current style of warfare. Perhaps one of you can help me out.
In what’s probably a comically crude approximation, this war seems to be team airplane (Israel) vs. team missile (Iran). I know a bit about why Iran started their massive missile programme but that’s not my point.
I wondered what, if any, are currently advantages of airplanes over missiles? Is there something an airplane can do that an appropriate missile/drone couldn’t?
Phrased differently: It must be expensive to support the human pilot — is it worth the trouble?
(I guess the same question could be asked about naval and land warfare.)

Posted by: Konami | Jun 18 2025 18:29 utc | 265

🚨⛔️ Breaking:
Israeli citizens physically assault the Israeli Defense Minister, who reportedly received a severe beating today.

https://x.com/SilentlySirs/status/1935392114826764320

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:30 utc | 266

Collective West is crying for a ceasefire. The latest wave of missiles ought to be impacting about now. Info from Al-Mayadeen.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 18 2025 18:30 utc | 267

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 18 2025 18:27 utc | 262
Well, maybe you should tell all those US citizens who pay taxes not to bother in future?

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 18:30 utc | 268

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 18 2025 18:10 utc | 232 “I did read the downtime for f-35 a year or two back. For 100 aircraft, only about 20-30 are servicable and in the air at any one time.”
It is a lot higher than that when the aircraft are really needed. Likely reversed of what you have. At least for a while.

Posted by: ed4 | Jun 18 2025 18:31 utc | 269

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 18 2025 18:23 utc | 250
#######
China agreed to provide relief to automakers. Not defense contractors, and even the automakers, have to file long and arduous applications.
I just watched a video this morning that the lack of access to bismuth is becoming a global problem as solder paste supplies dwindle.
Forget AI data centers. LOL

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:32 utc | 270

I wondered what, if any, are currently advantages of airplanes over missiles?
Posted by: Konami | Jun 18 2025 18:29 utc | 265

Mission flexibility. But it comes at a cost. And automation has changed the calculus.

Posted by: too scents | Jun 18 2025 18:32 utc | 271

The New York Times reports that some US diplomats have started departing Israel.

https://x.com/ILRedAlert/status/1935405118985302274
Huckster Huckabee on the move. LOL

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:34 utc | 272

Well, maybe you should tell all those US citizens who pay taxes not to bother in future?
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 18:30 utc | 268

Their wages are garnished. Like slaves. They have no recourse.

Posted by: t | Jun 18 2025 18:36 utc | 273

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 18:22 utc | 248
What’s wrong with this picture Jams? How you view the world ?
https://neweconomicperspectives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/alt2.png
Children got it right and saw the problem within 6 secs. Can you beat 6 secs Jams ?

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 18 2025 18:37 utc | 274

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 18 2025 18:27 utc | 260 “For the strikes into Syria a few years back, the Israeli’s would use the F-35”
They also used F-16’s and F-15’s. The F-35’s went into action for SEAD if the Syrian bought up their air defense system radars. The entire package often had drones involved too.

Posted by: ed4 | Jun 18 2025 18:38 utc | 275

Posted by: Konami | Jun 18 2025 18:29 utc | 265
I myself am also not a military man, so I can only speculate. One advantage of planes is that, if you have relatively limited range on the missiles, you can use the plane to extend the range of the missile. Another is that it might be beneficial to launch the missile from rarefied air – kinzhal may be an example of a missile that depends on this. Another benefit of a plane is that it can carry much bigger payloads – tons and tons, although this is mostly a case with dumb bombs, which are special-purpose weapons these days. Another benefit is that you have a human intelligence guiding the weapon, although again this is mostly a case with short-range weapons.
Personally, I prefer the calculation for the missile over the calculation for the plane. But planes are still valuable for the human pilot guiding the weapon, plus you need smaller rockets if you have planes.

Posted by: rert | Jun 18 2025 18:39 utc | 276

Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 18 2025 18:06 utc | 225
Good point, well made.
Also, if, as is claimed, Israel controls the airspace over Tehran, why do they not control their own airspace and maritme zones? (lol)

Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 18 2025 18:41 utc | 277

Missiles don’t need ongoing maintenance between missions…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Jun 18 2025 18:42 utc | 278

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:32 utc | 270
Thanks, wonder if the auto’s will front for defense, but what you mention suggests CN will be eyeballing most orders closely, at least in theory.

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 18 2025 18:45 utc | 279

STATEMENT 🇮🇷 IRGC Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps:
Either choose a slow death in the hell of shelters or save your lives from the relentless barrage of missiles!
The commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) has warned you that the gates of hell will open upon you.
The IRGC’s thunderous missiles will not allow you to emerge from your underground shelters for a single moment. You have not seen the color of the sun for days.
https://x.com/MonitorX99800/status/1935393494022893898
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 17:51 utc | 205
i have heard the like hundreds of times over the years, nothing ever comes of it
It’s so strange to hear this now when it might actually come true

Posted by: natrat | Jun 18 2025 18:46 utc | 280

OTOH, planes are reusable. (IIRC, the Allies ran about 700k sorties in the later years, dropping like 2.3 million tons of bombs on Germany et al in WW2).

Posted by: Call it what u will | Jun 18 2025 18:46 utc | 281

Collective West is crying for a ceasefire. The latest wave of missiles ought to be impacting about now. Info from Al-Mayadeen.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jun 18 2025 18:30 utc | 267
The Guardians of Zion have done all they can so that we don’t get to see. Rats, I guess I will simply have to watch reruns of “The Night Manager”.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 18 2025 18:47 utc | 282

at least in theory.
Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 18 2025 18:45 utc | 279

Theory ==> https://www.google.com/search?q=Just-in-Time+logisitics

Posted by: too scents | Jun 18 2025 18:48 utc | 283

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jun 18 2025 18:10 utc | 231
The good old schredinger f16 already seen/not seen in Ukraine.
Damn alien tech.

Posted by: Mario | Jun 18 2025 18:48 utc | 284

Konami | Jun 18 2025 18:29 utc | 265
advantages of airplanes over missiles?

Profits. The USA, as all prior holders of the reserve currency, has a two fold objective:
– project sufficient military power to protect status;
– cause sufficient levels of MIC spending to drive credit demand ie maintain inflationary bubble.
Missiles would help maximize #1 but seriously degrade #2. We’re seeing the results of emphasizing the second option.
For the poster who didn’t realize debt, not taxes, finances the US empire, surprised to see that level of ignorance @ MoA

Posted by: Markw | Jun 18 2025 18:48 utc | 285

I’m curious to know if anyone else is wondering if the United States has goals, in the meaningful sense of the term. Perhaps the United States is simply flailing with the mentality of a psychopathic drowning man, maybe hitting and lashing out at things around you will help by accidentally catching something that will drag one out of the sea or maybe it will just drag others down, but there’s no thought, no planning to any of this.
Perhaps Israel and the United States want nothing other than a nihilistic destruction of Iran. I don’t believe this, but every day I see more evidence for this.
“I still have doubt that Trump, despite his rhetoric, is willing to do so.” But don’t we have good evidence that Trump is irrational? He’s not doing a cost-benefit analysis, beyond some subconscious “lizard brain” instinct for self-preservation, right?

Posted by: Peter L. | Jun 18 2025 18:49 utc | 286

All this passport talk reminds me of “The Killing Fields”. Creating fake passports to get out of the country. I bet someone is making a killing by manufacturing and selling fake US passports.
Posted by: EoinW | Jun 18 2025 18:21 utc | 245

I expect Mossad has its own manufactury.
If the place is going down and they are getting out, no reason not to make a few shekels (or more likely silver dollars and gold sovereigns) flogging off blanks to the non-frier segment of the public.
IIRC there was an assassination of a Palestinian official in UAE carried out by Izzie agents who were carrying (fake) British passports.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Jun 18 2025 18:50 utc | 287

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 18 2025 18:45 utc | 279
#######
China’s customs services keep intercepting attempts to smuggle rare earths out.
They are vigilant. I would not be surprised if smuggling for the West is punishable by death, which makes it a diminishing industry.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:51 utc | 288

Casualties are still quite low on either side. I saw reported numbers earlier and was surprised. A fair number injured from flying glass though.
Israeli casualty numbers down as they are in bunkers.It seems that with the continuous but low level strikes, Iran intends keeping them in bunkers.
I guess the promised land won’t look so promising now.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jun 18 2025 18:52 utc | 289

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:30 utc | 266
Oh the irony, minister of defense can’t defend himself. Or his country. But to be hones, they never defended, only attacked, usually unarmed people and children.

Posted by: Abe | Jun 18 2025 18:52 utc | 290

john helmer from today –
THE FACTS, NOT THE FACTOIDS ON THE US-ISRAELI SCHLOCK & FLAW CAMPAIGN
@ c1ue… i am with nemesis calling in his take here… if correct, MAGA is close to being over, if anyone was wondering… time is running out for trumpypants to ”make america great again”… he either sides with his zionist paymasters, or he hangs onto his made in china MAGA hat… i think the former, but he can keep his stupid hat regardless…

Posted by: james | Jun 18 2025 18:53 utc | 291

I’m curious about the “tanker collision in the Persian Gulf” of which one was ostensibly part of the “shadow fleet”. I’ve only seen a burning ship but haven’t seen any follow-up. Even the news about Russia’s progress (which now stands at a couple of dozen kilometers per day?) is getting buried beneath Zionazi propaganda desperate into getting US bombers involved.
What would make sense is a provocation in the Persian Gulf where one of the tanker ships in transit to or from the UAE that at times also transports Russian oil was struck by FUKUSIS to provoke further escalation… .

Posted by: xor | Jun 18 2025 18:55 utc | 292

Posted by: Abe | Jun 18 2025 18:52 utc | 290
######
The Israelis would be an interesting case study for the timeless Reddit question.
“Which would you rather fight? 100 duck-sized horses or a horse-sized duck?”

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 18 2025 18:55 utc | 293

Peter L. | Jun 18 2025 18:49 utc | 286
“But don’t we have good evidence that Trump is irrational? He’s not doing a cost-benefit analysis, beyond some subconscious “lizard brain” instinct for self-preservation, right?”
Yes, he’s a typical US politician. Perhaps somewhat less deranged than Eurotrash pols.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Jun 18 2025 18:55 utc | 294

For the poster who didn’t realize debt, not taxes, finances the US empire, surprised to see that level of ignorance @ MoA
Posted by: Markw | Jun 18 2025 18:48 utc | 285
Be careful now. Otherwise the psychopaths will be saying ” there’s nobody to buy the bonds ” think it works like this
https://neweconomicperspectives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/alt5.png

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 18 2025 18:55 utc | 295

I’m curious to know if anyone else is wondering if the United States has goals, in the meaningful sense of the term.
Posted by: Peter L. | Jun 18 2025 18:49 utc | 286
PLUNDER!!
Imagine all that wealth, 90 million people and everything they own, or sit at! Just waiting to be taken! Obviously, it’s way less than what Russia has, but it’s still a decent haul. Plus, it strangles China and that’s always a good thing. 🙂

Posted by: rert | Jun 18 2025 18:56 utc | 296

Well it’s true that Iran isn’t working on a nuclear weapon program at all.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/trump-contradicts-his-spy-chief-irans-nuclear-program-2025-06-17/

Posted by: Surferket | Jun 18 2025 18:56 utc | 297

Tucker vs Cruz in full episode now on rumble (yt provided earlier in thread by Sun of Alabama)
https://rumble.com/v6uz0kt-tucker-confronts-ted-cruz-on-his-support-for-regime-change-in-iran.html
OMG it’s a doozy. (and still going about ~2hr into it airing now and still going) 😉

Posted by: knighthawk | Jun 18 2025 18:57 utc | 298

think it works like this
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 18 2025 18:55 utc | 295

You don’t think. You believe.

Posted by: too scents | Jun 18 2025 18:58 utc | 299

https://neweconomicperspectives.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/alt5.png
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jun 18 2025 18:55 utc | 295
Looks like a architectural drawing of my toilet.
Ha ha ha …
Come to think of it, it serves the same service.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Jun 18 2025 18:59 utc | 300