Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 20, 2025
Tic-Toc Thread 6 On The War On Iran

I commented yesterday that Trump Always Chickens Out (TACO) by pointing to a CNN piece:

Trump will allow 2 more weeks for diplomacy before deciding on US strike in Iran, White House says

“Based on the fact that there’s a substantial chance of negotiations that may or may not take place with Iran in the near future, I will make my decision whether or not to go within the next two weeks,” said the president in his statement, which was read aloud by press secretary Karoline Leavitt from the White House briefing room.

However, "within the next two weeks" is open to many possibilities. Still I perceived that Trump had decided to not bomb Iran.

Yves Smith at Naked Capitalism sees a different form of TACO:

Trump has approved a US strike package for Iran but is allegedly holding off to see how Tehran responds to his latest ultimatum, which is to give up not just nuclear enrichment but also ballistic missiles, that is, render itself defenseless. Trump has put pedal to the metal and has also thrown the steering wheel out the window. He’s created too much in the way of expectation of action to reverse course. TACO is prevailing: Trump is unwilling and/or unable to stand up to the Israel lobby and neocons.

We will see. My hunch is still that Trump will refrain from attacking Iran because the potential damage it may cause to the global position of the U.S., as well as to his domestic political plans, is too high to make it a viable solution.

When the war in Ukraine was launched by Kiev the U.S. and its proxies had planned to shock Russia into submission. They anticipated that Russia was weak. The hoped for an economic crash and a breakdown of its government. But the move failed. In the months and years following the attack Russia pulled Ukraine into a war of attrition which Ukraine, even with support from the west, had no chance to win.

After recognizing that there was nothing to win in fighting Russia Trump pulled back from the war.

Similar plans were laid out for the attack on Iran. A shock and awe campaign would leave Iran decapitated and diminished. Despite all evidence Iran was perceived as weak. A revolution would break out. Any response from Iran would be defeated. But the move failed. In the days since the launch of the war Iran has dragged Israel into a war of attrition which Israel, even with the support from the west, has no chance to win.

It may still take a few days for Trump to accept that view. But, like in Ukraine, he is likely to draw the right conclusion from it.

Today the war proceed like it did over the last days. Neither side has air superiority. Israel is using stand off weapons and drones to hit targets in Iran. But its success against Iranian mobile missile launchers is so lousy that it promotes each of several different photos from one strike as unique defeats of Iranian forces.

Iran is using ballistic missiles with astonishing precision. By now at least 50% pass through the formerly dense network of Israel's missiles defenses. Several dozen do impact Israel each and every day.

But the reserves of missile for defense like Israel uses are counted in hundreds while the reserves of ballistic missiles Iran is using are numbered in thousands. Logistically and financially it is a fight that Israel can not win.

Its only hope is to involve the U.S. directly into a fight with Iran. But there is nothing in it strategically for the U.S. to win. Russian and China will not be sorry when the U.S. gets again bogged down in the Middle East.

Still it is of course possible that Trump's instincts will fail and that he will order an outright attack on Iran. Seymour Hersh's sources claim that the U.S. will strike during this weekend:

This is a report on what is most likely to happen in Iran, as early as this weekend, according to Israeli insiders and American officials I’ve relied upon for decades. It will entail heavy American bombing. I have vetted this report with a longtime US official in Washington, who told me that all will be “under control” if Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei “departs.” Just how that might happen, short of his assassination, is not known. There has been a great deal of talk about American firepower and targets inside Iran, but little practical thinking, as far I can tell, about how to remove a revered religious leader with an enormous following.

It  would of course be the surest way to guarantee that Iran will indeed develop real nuclear weapons:

U.S. Spy Agencies Assess Iran Remains Undecided on Building a Bomb (archived) – NY Times
U.S. intelligence officials said Iran was likely to pivot toward producing a nuclear weapon if the U.S. attacked a main uranium enrichment site, or if Israel killed its supreme leader.

Conventional bunker busters are unlikely to be sufficient to knock out Iran's deeply buried enrichment bunkers. The U.S. would have to go nuclear. The B61-11 nuclear earth penetrator has a yield of 300 to 400 kilotons. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were 15 and 21 kt. Using it would set a precedence that the no one will want.

Iran's Foreign Minister is in Geneva to meet with the UK, Germany and France. There is nothing to expect from this. President Macron of France, who years ago condemned Trump from leaving the JCPOA agreement with Iran, has now adopted Trump's position. He is demanding zero enrichment, limits on Iran's ballistic missiles and limits on its support for resistance forces. A farce as all these points are well known Iranian redlines.

P.S.:

This is good:

Why Iran? The Context & The Consequences – Roger Boyd

Comments

@ Acco Hengst | Jun 21 2025 0:33 utc | 601
well, we’re in agreement on AI then! cheers..

Posted by: james | Jun 21 2025 0:36 utc | 602

USrael murders over 1000 people in 7 days.
https://x.com/RyanRoabiani/status/1935984947887534469
This cannot stand.

Posted by: JohnGilberts | Jun 21 2025 0:37 utc | 603

@Markw

Short version: AI/hyper missiles trump manned air power. (And sea land as well for that matter.)

They trump almost any power, really (for the time being). It’s just basic engineering principle. Projectiles moving at Mach-13+ which can amazingly be maneuvered mid-flight are virtually impossible to intercept via battery systems or any proliferated weapons in existence save sheer luck. A sudden breakthrough advancements in laser aerial defense tech would also do the trick.

Maintaining these large, expensive footprints were birthed during the establishment of the present doctrine, making any suggestion of abandonment a moot point.

The Great Arrow-III (and probably THAAD) Lie is going to be one of the most comical retrospectives of the coming world. Capital is as capital does. Can only market shit that doesn’t work for so long–sorry, Lockheed shareholders.

So the old ‘living in interesting times’ springs to mind. How often in history do we see the waning of an empire, emergence of a new global order, and a complete resetting of military technology occur in one fell swoop?

I’m glad you see it this way as well. I suppose it’s the Western media blackout on anything related to Israeli military failure, but I wish I could see more talking heads talking about the gravity of this. I mean, literally one week. And the whole house is coming down.
If Iran had a competent navy, they could strap Fattahs and Sejjils to warships and just hang out in the Arabian Sea all day. Uncle Sam would never come knocking.

Posted by: warxism | Jun 21 2025 0:42 utc | 604

I have a question..
Has Trumps’ reluctance to make a decision on when to take on Iran.. revealed a highly aggressive force intent on targets that supercede the welfare, interest and security of USA governed America?
It seems to me the interest of born again Christian’s, WRTE conflict between Israel and Iran, has produced forces seeking targets that may supercede the welfare and security of an America first policy?
I have not stated this very well because I don’t really understand this yet.. Please help?

Posted by: snake | Jun 21 2025 0:43 utc | 605

@608 JohnGilberts
And is difficult viewing. This an example from today, like the day before, like the day before, like the day….
https://t.me/Sohaibpress/108264

Posted by: Ornot | Jun 21 2025 0:46 utc | 606

Trump vs Musk. LOL
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 20 2025 23:28 utc | 567
Now THAT was entertaining. Musk won.

Posted by: osi not ossi | Jun 21 2025 0:50 utc | 607

Is this thing waiting to see if US Navy vessels can fend off Iran missiles from wrecking Israel? Once they run out of AD missiles, I think that’s all they got left. If THAT doesn’t work, then Israel is naked. They just get pounded without impediment. This will be fun to watch.

Posted by: Eighthman | Jun 21 2025 0:52 utc | 608

see the 2:48 video at the third/fourth link
https://x.com/MenchOsint/status/1936007928881750346
MenchOsint @MenchOsint
Yes, Iran with Nuclear weapons is a threat to NATO’s occupation & ressources’ plundering of Muslim countries.
https://x.com/clashreport/status/1936004081526489112
Clash Report @clashreport
Macron:
An Iran with nuclear weapons is a real threat—no one should ignore it
——-
https://x.com/Pataramesh/status/1936140376752242714
Patarames @Pataramesh
The Ghadr missile (yellow)
Is after the 1990’s Shahab-3, the missile that requires the longest launch preparation time of any 🇮🇱-range missile
➡️ Launch on broad daylight (Day 7) with other missiles close by is a clear statement
No 🇮🇱 air superiority
https://x.com/mhmiranusa/status/1936125349701517442
Mehdi H. @mhmiranusa
Video of the 17th wave of the Iranian ballistic missiles launch toward Israel (Operation True Promise-3) today, June 20, 2025.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Jun 21 2025 0:53 utc | 609

@603 Arch Bungle

Simply that all the Arab regimes are totally and completely compromised, illegitimate and deserving of overthrow.

While I unreservedly agree, I think it’s worth recognizing that many of these regimes have been installed via color revolutions, CIA/Mossad-backed insurgencies, and other nasty Western intelligence operations against the will of the national populace (with the exception of the monarchies, which are simply irretrievably evil to their core and always have been). Once you get a sociopath in power who desires nothing more than to suckle at the teat of capital and live in luxury at the expense of their neighbors and fellow citizens, there’s little that can be done. That’s why, among many other reasons, Ansarallah is so impressive. There’s not a single soul in that organization that can be bought and sold, unlike Assad’s people, Gaddafi’s people, Saddam’s people, the Emiratis, the Lebanese, etc.

Posted by: warxism | Jun 21 2025 0:55 utc | 610

@569 Acco Hangst

Perhaps it was well discussed here and I missed it, but what triggered NuttyYahoo’s attack on Iran? Greenlight by WH or DC politicos? Too many assurances that did not hold?

The two theories I like the most are that 1) Iran is actually incredibly close to achieving a nuclear weapon, or 2) the faction of Zionists currently running the show and which have run the show for many years now are finally losing their stranglehold on power in a meaningful way and desperately tried to force the Endsieg by striking Iran.
Probably likeliest, however, is that Trump has always been fascinated with winning a war against Iran as feather in the cap of his legacy and was convinced by the idiot legions of Western military science that Iran had been bluffing about its capabilities/Israel had enough firepower to cut the head off the snake to make things easy enough for the US military to roll in and facilitate regime change.

Posted by: warxism | Jun 21 2025 1:03 utc | 611

Norwegian @ 487
Reports are the newer missiles in the Western part of the country are still subject to Israeli strikes.
The older liquid fuel types are being fired from the Eastern side. This by itself coupled with the facts they are being fired in broad daylight shows total contempt for US ISR.
These missiles take anywhere from 2 hours or more just to prepare at the launch site.
The footage shared by Norwegian appears to be very similar to the Oreshnik when that was first debut.
Only difference is these might be a single warhead variants.
—-xxxxxxx———
To TACO or not to TACO, that is the question.
I don’t care who came up with this, the fact it seems to trigger Orange Man bigly and the usual suspects here is enough reason for me love the word.

Posted by: Suresh | Jun 21 2025 1:04 utc | 612

I just want to say a few things.
1st – Going all the way back to WW2, with the bombing of London, Dresden, Tokyo, Berlin etc etc, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine etc etc no war has been won with Bombs / Missiles alone. You have to put boots on the ground. With that said, If Israel and the West thinks they can win against Iran without boots on the ground they are sadly mistaken. It would take a hugs effort of close to 500k troops to even think about taking Iran by force and I doubt that would do it.
Note – you could argue that WW2 against Japan was won via the nuclear bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, however the USSR threat from the North had as much to do with that as anything. I guess I need to say that no war has ever been won solely through the air without the aid of nuclear weapons.
2nd = Iran has to be careful not to escalate and do too much damage, as if they do, Israel will not just sit there and take it. They will go Nuclear, this opinion, I have no doubt.
Hopefully everything calms down. I personally think Iran will just respond and not try to escalate. Time is on the side of the Axis. All of the West is in terrible debt and at the end of an era. What the Axis has to do is survive the collapse of the colonial system. Slowly just sit back and let it die.

Posted by: Clay | Jun 21 2025 1:12 utc | 613