NYT - Guessing About Iran With 'Experts' Who Lack Knowledge Of It
A lot of the misunderstanding U.S. policy makers have of foreign countries is caused by the lousy reporting in U.S. media.
Here is just one of many examples:
After War With Israel and U.S., Iran Rests on a Knife Edge (archived) - NY Times, Jun 29 2025
The Islamic Republic limps on after the 12-day conflict. Where will the nation go from here?
The piece was filled by Roger Cohen - the 'Paris Bureau chief for The Times' - from Dubai.
The opener is somewhat weird:
Roxana Saberi felt like she was back behind bars in Tehran. As she watched Israel’s bombing of Evin prison, the notorious detention facility at the core of Iran’s political repression, she shuddered at memories of solitary confinement, relentless interrogation, fabricated espionage charges and a sham trial during her 100-day incarceration in 2009.Like many Iranians in the diaspora and at home, Ms. Saberi wavered, torn between her dreams of a government collapse that would free the country’s immense potential and her concern for family and friends as the civilian death toll mounted. Longings for liberation and for a cease-fire vied with each other.
That 'longings' language would fit the opener for some soft-porn essay. But it has nothing to do with the question the piece is supposed to (but does not) answer.
Roxana Saberi is U.S. born to an Iranian mother and a Japanese father. She lives with her parents in North Dakota. Only six out of her 48 years were spent in Iran where she worked until 2009 as a reporter for various western propaganda outlets. After she had been found in possession of secret documents she was jailed and later kicked out of country.
How can she be expected to tell us where Iran will go from here? She can't.
Neither can any of the other persons quoted in the too long piece:
... said Sanam Vakil, the director of the Middle East and North Africa program at Chatham House, a London think tank.
And who is that?
At Chatham House, Sanam directs a diverse portfolio of research and policy initiatives, addressing critical issues such as Gulf Arab security and economic transitions, Iran’s regional ambitions, governance and political reform, women’s empowerment, and the intersection of climate and socio-economic challenges.
Another source of the NY Times:
... said Abdulkhaleq Abdulla, a prominent political scientist in the United Arab Emirates. “A weak Islamic Republic could hang on four or five years.”
Looking at Abdulkhaleq Abdulla vita I wonder how he is prominent 'in the UAE':
Dr. Abdulkhaleq Abdulla is a Senior Fellow with the Middle East Initiative at the Harvard Kennedy School’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs. He is a United Arab Emirates national, ...
Professor Abdulla was a Fulbright Scholar, a Visiting Professor at the Center for Contemporary Arab Studies at Georgetown University, and a Senior Fellow at the London School of Economics. He holds PhD in political science from Georgetown University and master’s degree from American University.
I see a lot of U.S. academia merits but not much Gulf experience in there.
Another of the NY Times 'experts':
... said Jeffrey Feltman, a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution in Washington
Feltman is a former U.S. diplomat who has spent years in Tel Aviv but none in Iran. The Brookings Institute where he resides is the publisher of the Which Path To Persia pamphlet which is the still current manual for regime change in Tehran.
And last but not least one at least somewhat local 'expert':
“The people of Iran are fed up with being pariahs, and some were more saddened by the cease-fire than the war itself,” said Dherar Belhoul al-Falasi, a former member of the United Arab Emirates’ Federal National Council
'Saddened by the cease-fire'? Falesi would know that how? He was quoted in Zionist media when he rejected to give UAE money to Hamas or the Palestinian Authority because 'are corrupt'. Sure. How could they not be. But what does he know of Iranians?
There you have it. A New York Times piece which diagnoses Iran to be on a 'knife edge' based on five 'experts' none of whom is in Iran or has recently (if ever) been there. But all of them are from the very same swamp of U.S. foreign policy academics or 'think tanks' that live off and digest such pieces.
It feels like an outside look on some mysterious object with random guesses of what may be inside.
It is just a remix of the very same opinions that have been blubbered for years.
How is any policy maker supposed to get some understanding of Iran from it?
Posted by b on June 30, 2025 at 14:27 UTC | Permalink
next page »It feels like an outside look on some mysterious object with random guesses of what may be inside.
Schrödinger's Islamic Republic
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jun 30 2025 14:41 utc | 2
Intellectual yet Idiot by Nassim Taleb, describes this phenomenon well.
A fatal flaw in Western modernity.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 30 2025 14:48 utc | 3
Well, shoot, if you already know what the answer needs to be, you just want some “experts” with plausibly ME names to vomit it up for you so it doesn’t look so propagandaish …
It’s not misunderstanding; it’s narrative management.
Posted by: Caliman | Jun 30 2025 14:48 utc | 4
This is the sort of Fake News a new Global South media group that was recently formed aims at dealing with: Global Fact Checking Network. It's just getting started, and the item b has dissected would be a good test case. I'm reminded of the Broadway musical The Music Man who's constantly asked for his credentials by the town's officials but manages to continually dodge them. All these years later, I wonder what was actually on the play writers' minds when they composed it.
Taleb's observation applies in many domains. It's not only one topic but hundreds.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jun 30 2025 14:49 utc | 6
-------
Oh Great. Just what everyone needs. Another article about how bad the NYTs is. And how ignorant Americans are of the world.
/sarc
Posted by: Grate | Jun 30 2025 14:51 utc | 7
Intended to persuade the ignorant, not inform the reader or raise serious issues for discussion. Same treatment used for all 'enemies if the state'.
Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 30 2025 14:55 utc | 8
These so called "experts" remind me of the one disgruntled supposedly Syrian guy who lived above a clothes shop in Coventry - and who ran the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights - all the mainstream media would defer to him on what was going on in Syria - it was laughable at best.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 30 2025 14:55 utc | 9
MSM including the NYT and Guardian and the BBC have failed to acknowledge, in line with Israeli censorship, the hundreds of billions of dollars in damage the Iranian ballistic missile strikes did to the industrial and infrastructure economy of the occupation state.
Haifa was effectively destroyed as an industrial center and port.............
Posted by: tobias cole | Jun 30 2025 14:59 utc | 10
its a parallel universe.... fortunately information is getting thru.. unfortunately it has to be sought out if you can get thru the 'factcheck' walls... the mainstream news is the absolute worst place to try to understand what is happening...
Posted by: james | Jun 30 2025 15:02 utc | 12
Well, that's just it, b. They can't! Further, most of them don't even know they can't! They're SO absorbed with appearances they're outright blind. This is the crux of why the Collective West is now known globally as Clown World.
Ha the press !
Lot of thing changed since June 13th.
(Rrr)Hammas became : IRrrannh backed (Rrr)Hammas.
The russians GeRrranh drone became : IRrrannian provided Shaed (anew...).
AnsaRrr Allah became IRrrannian backed terrorist.
October the 7th became IRrrannh backed attacks ... and so on.
Iran's everywhere. The good old "Russia, Russia, Russia" was so a 2022 trend. Don't you know the new shit ? IRrrannh, IRrrannh,IRrrannh !
The worst part is most of the MSM seems to really believe the shits they say, it's group think tropism and yeah : they are collectively that dumb. Even worst than the boomers they try to convince. (OK boomer !)
Posted by: Savonarole | Jun 30 2025 15:07 utc | 14
"Experts" are also in need of paychecks. The revolving door of experts we see on American mainstream media can very easily raise anyone's blood pressure.....
Posted by: georgeg | Jun 30 2025 15:18 utc | 15
Pure 21st century spin
Never let facts spoil a "nice" narrative
But when push comes to shove, unsurprisingly, trash talking does not trash an adversary on the field.
A little addendum, since the turn of the century the us lost 20% (close to israel), and europe a third, of their energy/industry per capita. Iran has doubled, china has tripled.
Services and profit margins don't win wars.
Posted by: Newbie | Jun 30 2025 15:21 utc | 16
Oh Great. Just what everyone needs. Another article about how bad the NYTs is. And how ignorant Americans are of the world.
/sarc
Posted by: Grate | Jun 30 2025 14:51 utc | 7
============
I guess the "sarc" tag is a way of saying, actually, that it is very much appreciated---an it is!
Some true friends of Palestine still (occasionally) cite the NYT.
I guess they think that occasional tiny slivers of truth from the NYT will be more convincing than gigantic slices of truth from alternative sources.
So, IMO it is a valuable service to be constantly reminded of the many forms NYT duplicity, distortion, and brainwashing can take.
If only also to help diagnosis the symptoms of people who regularly take these toxic mental vaccines and boosters---because that is what this kind of "journalism" is, analogous to a toxic propaganda booster that "tops up" the original propaganda vaccine.
Posted by: Jane | Jun 30 2025 15:22 utc | 17
MSM writing some ridiculous nonsense to avoid touching the real issues? Such as the flattened Haifa port and some bases too?
I mean, if the last few years have taught us something it is that people will believe anything, and they will not admit it. It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Posted by: Norwegian | Jun 30 2025 15:22 utc | 18
"Roxana Saberi felt like she was back behind bars in Tehran......bla bla bla"
The first line is enough to make me want to vomit. Relotius writing style! There has to be a school somewhere teaching this, I grew alergic against this kind of "storytelling" fakeness some time ago.
But thanks b, important to keep a record.
Posted by: Aurora | Jun 30 2025 15:22 utc | 19
the u.s. foreign policy establishment has never forgotten or forgiven iran for the u.s. embassy teheran takeover in 1979. i once was a colleague of a young mr. feltman. just as decisions in war may be too important to be left to generals, foreign policy may be too important to be left to ambitious diplomats, and mideast policy may be too important to be left to angry emigres or dual nationals.
Posted by: jstert | Jun 30 2025 15:36 utc | 20
I don't know if "we" are at war with Iran and Russia. Our governments and media certainly behave like we are.
Nobody cares what Is happing in Iran. Or what the citizens of Iran are thinking. What matters is that "our" citizens are thinking that the citizens of Iran and Russia have no other priorities than having their governments changed by some foreign country bombing them to smitherens.
Just like Irak. Where governments and media ensured us the good citizens of Irak would welcome american soldiers waving little american flags and singing american songs. Like Irak, when the New York Times told us that Irak needed to be liberated because Saddams soldiers were killing children in Kuwaiti hospitals, that Saddam was sitting on nuclear, chemical and biological bombs that could destroy London within 45 minutes. Journalism. American style. The New York Times still things it is embedded with the Pentagon.
Posted by: Marvin | Jun 30 2025 15:38 utc | 21
"Roxana Saberi is U.S. born to an Iranian mother and a Japanese father. She lives with her parents in North Dakota. Only six out of her 48 years were spent in Iran where she worked until 2009 as a reporter for various western propaganda outlets. After she had been found in possession of secret documents she was jailed and later kicked out of country.
How can she be expected to tell us where Iran will go from here? She can't."
Well, the photogenic Miss Saberi is a former beauty pageant winner: Miss North Dakota 1997!
LOL.
Posted by: ak74 | Jun 30 2025 15:40 utc | 22
"Blind men and an elephant..."
Luc (11).
The difference here is, that the Blind Men were ALL correct on the description of the elephants body parts, but as a whole got its description wrong - those clown in the MSM, that our host has generously provided an example of are just plain wrong on all accounts.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 30 2025 15:41 utc | 23
I'm waiting for the headline: "Iran wins (for now), but at what cost?
Here's the BBC Farsi propaganda arm: https://www.bbc.com/persian
Translation makes for interesting reading.
Posted by: Occasional poster | Jun 30 2025 15:43 utc | 24
Unless you have direct knowledge to the contrary, it is fair to assume a any news story in legacy media was planted there by the good offices of one of the 3LAs.
Langley et al have destroyed public knowledge & understanding of the nation and world in order to further it's, often foreign led, oligarchic grip over the USA.
The spy agencies operate outside the boundaries of the US Constitution, they simply have no check or balance against their ever increasing power. Any efforts to effectively reign them in often proves either fatal or, results in a long brutal incarceration. The agencies are directly responsible for America's decline as their interests are always put before the country.
I really wish commenter would accurately aim their criticisms of the United States at the actual perps, not just use vague generalities but, name names and give agency to the likely source.
Posted by: S Brennan | Jun 30 2025 15:46 utc | 25
Americans hear what they want to hear. Confirmation bias, one idiot will express an opinion which he heard on cnn or fox - those around him will nod their heads sagely. Those not "in the know" will adhere to what their neighbor or co-worker repeats. Congenitally stupid people. Those who follow events such as MoA readers largely do are a relative rarity. The stupidity has always worked for its elected leaders and the electorate itself.
The monkey wrench is young people, they are not wedded to msm. Some of them think.
another monkey wrench which is being forcefully addressed is the indigenous people so despised by americans. Some respect hard work but most see us as foreign and an enemy, exactly as their fellow settlers do in Palestine. what americans cannot grasp and only those who speak Spanish know is those people coming here understand geopolitics at a level above them. Few americans believe this, but it's true. the guy tarring a roof, the lady tossing heads of lettuce into a cart understand what's going on in Palestine, in Iran. a generalization based on facts. many even Ukraine. I can't explain it other than like the middle east, people talk before and after meals. they don't repeat media lies. maybe they listen to elders who understand things.
Posted by: Felix | Jun 30 2025 15:46 utc | 26
Unless you have direct knowledge to the contrary, it is fair to assume a any news story in legacy media was planted there by the good offices of one of the 3LAs.
Langley et al have destroyed public knowledge & understanding of the nation and world in order to further it's, often foreign led, oligarchic grip over the USA.
The spy agencies operate outside the boundaries of the US Constitution, they simply have no check or balance against their ever increasing power. Any efforts to effectively reign them in often proves either fatal or, results in a long brutal incarceration. The agencies are directly responsible for America's decline as their interests are always put before the country.
I really wish commenter would accurately aim their criticisms of the United States at the actual perps, not just use vague generalities but, name names and give agency to the likely source.
Posted by: S Brennan | Jun 30 2025 15:46 utc | 27
...apologies for the duplication I thought it didn't go through
Posted by: S Brennan | Jun 30 2025 15:47 utc | 28
It’s not misunderstanding; it’s narrative management.
Posted by: Caliman | Jun 30 2025 14:48 utc | 4
This. Exactly.
Posted by: Mary | Jun 30 2025 15:48 utc | 29
Alastair Crooke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp5rC0HIlQ
"Who won the 12 Day War?"
Posted by: JohnGilberts | Jun 30 2025 15:48 utc | 30
Liberal Western Media crisis reporting is a unique genre that has more in common with primitive folk epic than with journalism. You can imagine these articles being chanted in some isolated village in the Caucasus to the accompaniment of a one-string fiddle.
A recent Guardian report on Mariupol under Russian rule starts with quotes from an anonymous resident, "John," the only eyewitness quoted. He doesn't think much of Russian rule. Only half way through the journalist reveals that "John" works for a Ukrainian terrorist cell.
Typically, an article will begin with a bit of vox pop from some humble eyewitness A, like your Roxana, continue with the opinions of experts, academics & politicians B, C, D,... and Z, and mix quotes from all of them in the course of the article, so you're never sure if you're reading the opinions of Henry Kissinger or Roxana's granny.
Not that it matters, because it's only the opinion of the Guardian's editors, which is identical to the opinion of the NYT, Washington Post, la Repubblica, der Spiegel or le Monde.
At the height of the climate hysteria the Guardian took to producing articles which it had translated in 30 different "authoritative" journals throughout the world, including those cited above. They might as well do the same for the Middle East & Ukraine. After all, they'll all be following the same line when World War 3 is announced.
Posted by: Geoff Chambers | Jun 30 2025 15:51 utc | 31
#30 corrected:
Alastair Crooke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kp5rC0HIlQ
"Who Won the 12 Day War?"
Posted by: JohnGilberts | Jun 30 2025 15:52 utc | 32
"The piece was filled by Roger Cohen - the 'Paris Bureau chief for The Times' - from Dubai"
So, a confusing misleading, pro Israel article on Iran written by a Jew named Cohen. Im going to go out on a limb here and say Mr. Cohen is a rabid Zionazi, racial supremacist, baby killer. So, maybe not a reliable source...
But your question is valid: where do you go for objective reporting? That's a good question. Compared to Ukraine, which was bad, the Zio information control on their 12 day humiliation was like nothing I've seen before. Effectively a total blackout on likely the most consequential conflict for humanity in my lifetime.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jun 30 2025 16:04 utc | 33
The aim is not to inform, but to continue to acclimate American readers to the inevitable regime change war which has only been put on hold.
Posted by: WJ | Jun 30 2025 16:06 utc | 34
I really wish commenter would accurately aim their criticisms of the United States at the actual perps, not just use vague generalities but, name names and give agency to the likely source.
Posted by: S Brennan | Jun 30 2025 15:46 utc | 27
Don't forget our billionaire overlords who own the Times and pretty much the whole MSM. They aren't being tricked by the spy agencies, they coordinate everything with them before printing.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jun 30 2025 16:15 utc | 35
Better information source on Iran : Emmanuel Todd
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jnH8-WLNMSI
Todd a une analyse assez unique de l’Iran et d’Israel aujourd’hui…
Posted by: Dany | Jun 30 2025 16:16 utc | 36
Well, the photogenic Miss Saberi is a former beauty pageant winner: Miss North Dakota 1997!
LOL.
Posted by: ak74 | Jun 30 2025 15:40 utc | 22
Check out her husband. Undoubtedly a Zionazi.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jun 30 2025 16:17 utc | 37
Better information source on Iran : Emmanuel Todd
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jnH8-WLNMSI
Todd a une analyse assez unique de l’Iran et d’Israel aujourd’hui…
Posted by: Dany | Jun 30 2025 16:16 utc | 36
Not really. Todd has, to his credit, largely disqualified himself on this issue. He openly identifies with Israel on racial grounds and considers criticism of Israel "at to high a frequency" to be antisemitic (during a fucking live streamed slaughter of children!!!).
Trust Todd on this issue at your peril.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jun 30 2025 16:22 utc | 38
b "How is any policy maker supposed to get some understanding of Iran from it?"
I don't think there is any attempt to understand Iran. Iran is much more difficult to understand than the Arab states of the eastern Mediterranean. so I don't think they bother. and certainly not when the exiles all have a smooth narrative of a regime on the point of collapse. The exiles have been saying the same thing for 40 years.
Posted by: laguerre | Jun 30 2025 16:36 utc | 39
"Roxana Saberi felt like she was back behind bars in Tehran......bla bla bla"
The first line is enough to make me want to vomit. Relotius writing style! There has to be a school somewhere teaching this, I grew alergic against this kind of "storytelling" fakeness some time ago.
But thanks b, important to keep a record.
Posted by: Aurora | Jun 30 2025 15:22 utc | 19
============
So true. This is not news reporting.
This is a typical opener for a "human interest" story.
What in the world happened to the five W's that are supposed to be in the first graf of a news report:
The Where/What/When/Who/Why (if known)/how.
Posted by: Jane | Jun 30 2025 16:39 utc | 40
Effectively a total blackout on likely the most consequential conflict for humanity in my lifetime.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jun 30 2025 16:04 utc | 33
Such level of censorship is probably a tell tale that Israel was hit hard, else they would be showing Haifa oil plant full working.
Same goes for the US nuclear hit. I'm quite shure that they were filming everything, just as they did with Hiroshima and Nagasaki but all they show was a shit video of a test.
Posted by: Mario | Jun 30 2025 16:39 utc | 41
I'm surprised the 3 letter agency asset – the “journalist” with a flower in the hair – has not been trotted out yet. She was a valuable propaganda tool.
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Jun 30 2025 16:42 utc | 43
b: ".....How is any policy maker supposed to get some understanding of Iran from it?......"
You don't. You listen to your intelligence agencies. If they were corrupt, for whatever reasons, and spew nonsenses, good luck.
Unfortunately, that is the current state of Western intelligence.
Posted by: KitaySupporter | Jun 30 2025 16:54 utc | 46
"I really wish commenter would accurately aim their criticisms of the United States at the actual perps, not just use vague generalities but, name names and give agency to the likely source.
Posted by: S Brennan"
Why that joke term "Deep State" galls me. Real criminals hiding behind smoky terminology.
Nothing more than another tool along the lines of "Conspiracy Theorist" and "Liberal Media".
Are the people who use those phrases tools as well, or simply PR demons for the deep state?
oops.
Posted by: Not Ewe | Jun 30 2025 16:58 utc | 47
It's triumph of the will in full bloom.
Insist on signing away NPT allowed rights, demanding unconditional surrender, launching June 22nd wee hours attack...(Sudetenland and Barbarossa all rolled into one).
Posted by: wowreally | Jun 30 2025 17:01 utc | 48
It's not a bug, it's a feature. If you want to destroy a nation you have to be ignorant. Understanding or even empathy is counterproductive for that goal. You need ruthless psychopaths that are "anständig geblieben".
Posted by: p3t3r | Jun 30 2025 17:01 utc | 49
'A New York Times piece diagnoses Iran to be on a 'knife edge' based on five 'experts' none of whom is in Iran or has recently (if ever) been there.' - b.
Death to the Lügenpresse.
Posted by: Jim H | Jun 30 2025 17:03 utc | 50
It's triumph of the will in full bloom.
Insist on signing away NPT allowed rights, demanding unconditional surrender, launching June 22nd wee hours attack...(Sudetenland and Barbarossa all rolled into one).
Posted by: wowreally | Jun 30 2025 17:01 utc | 48
I don't call them Zionazis for nothing. Their abusive step father taught them well.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jun 30 2025 17:05 utc | 51
I just saw this NYT headline on the hardcopy paper, right side, above the fold:
"Suspense Builds in Iran as Theocracy Staggers"
They really are not giving the regime change narrative.
After all the color revolutions, can NYT readers still be so brain-dead and herd-able as to fall for this shite?
More fearmonger below the fold, about farms shuttered on the border while workers tremble with fear . . .
Who will do the harvest ????
We are about to have a famine in the USA!!!
Speaking of famine, no mention that I saw of famine in Palestine.
Posted by: Jane | Jun 30 2025 17:17 utc | 52
Jane @ 52
Correction:
"They really are not giving up on the the regime change narrative."
Posted by: Jane | Jun 30 2025 17:31 utc | 53
When your enemy lives in parallel universe, its good for you, but when someone who you call 'Daddy'.....
Posted by: Lubomir | Jun 30 2025 17:38 utc | 54
Lies seasoned with a sprinkling of truth - the typical MO.
Video on BBC hit piece on Mariupol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iygjk-Fz4Pg
Posted by: the pessimist | Jun 30 2025 17:41 utc | 55
Thanks B and great comments too!
Now imagine NYT type folks with centralized control of digital (usurious) ledgers along with digital social connections!
Satoshis’ invention plus things like the nostr protocol offer some immunity to this engineered, toxic nonsense… electronic hardware is going to be interesting to watch play out (as lovedonbass has been referring to… east / west fork playing out, but presumably the internet itself will not fully fork)
Posted by: E | Jun 30 2025 17:46 utc | 56
it really doesn't matter what outlets like NYT write, have written or will spit out.
Its a waste of time to discuss about.
Better have a look to the near future.
Posted by: ableman | Jun 30 2025 17:47 utc | 57
Ahenobarbus | Jun 30 2025 16:04 utc | 33
Not sure why so many at MoA go on about "objective reporting".
Once again, let's review the social hierarchy of all societies, advanced or primitive, contemporaneous or ancient; which group is always rated as the top rank?
Priests. And no, this isn't you local parson. Rather, this is the class that controls politics, determines objectives (eg complete global conquest), sets the narrative, crafts the myths, enforces conformance and puts the whole shebang into motion.
So called news is simply one of many important parts of this architecture. Also of note is the military usually holding second rank. This demonstrates why the pen truly is mightier than the sword.
Now I'm sure someone will chime in about Russian/Iranian superior physical position trumping western media.
Do you really think this is the end? We're just getting started. There's a large non kinetic aspect in play that has nothing to do with weapons but rather focuses on the very genetics of humans, both brain and body.
Pay attention the science, which above all is dependent on financing. Don't make the mistake of thinking anyone who is even remotely ambitious gives any credence whatsoever to utopian dreams of a new social order.
Posted by: Markw | Jun 30 2025 17:54 utc | 58
"They really are not giving up on the the regime change narrative."
Posted by: Jane | Jun 30 2025 17:31 utc | 53
Of course not, what do you expect? The US and Europe have always doubled down, rather than hang back in every crisis of recent years. We should perhaps encourage them. It will be be more of a catastrophe for the US. Netanyahu is personally desperate, and will go for war, even if disastrous for Israel.
I'd like to see the US get a bloody nose ( yes they could fire a nuke, that's always a risk).
Posted by: laguerre | Jun 30 2025 17:54 utc | 59
@32
Pistol is correct the Iran engineers are not dumb enough to build verticals exhaust vents into the nuclear work gallery. They did not need to see Top Gun Maverick.
Trump and his very competent script readers: Fox News Hegspeth, and recently unretired national guard pilot Caine saw that flick and decided US has seen Top Gun sequels and knows the U.S. can put a 30000 pound rock right down a vertical shaft built by Persians.
More unlikely than dumb Persians is the kind of accuracy and everything working from Missouri to Iran!
It would be more believable if the lead B-2 seat holder were named Maverick.
Trump owes the movie royalties…
Posted by: Paddy | Jun 30 2025 18:24 utc | 60
These so called "experts" remind me of the one disgruntled supposedly Syrian guy who lived above a clothes shop in Coventry - and who ran the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights - all the mainstream media would defer to him on what was going on in Syria - it was laughable at best.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jun 30 2025 14:55 utc | 9
Or for that matter the Campaign Against Antisemitism, who basically started the "Corbyn is an antisemite" smear in the UK and then became the go-to guys for the MSM on the subject of whether anything Corbyn or pro-Palestinian was antisemitic.
Posted by: Red Star | Jun 30 2025 18:35 utc | 61
@Ahenobarbus #38
You should watch this récent Todd vidéo rather than « conclude » based on whatever older source !
What he says on Iran, the subject of current thread, is insightful and unique / and disconnected from Israël on many aspects
Posted by: Dany | Jun 30 2025 18:48 utc | 62
WHY is anyone still reading the NYTIMES...?
Posted by: flyingcow | Jun 30 2025 16:52 utc | 44
I read it the same way I used to read the Soviet media--the difference is that Soviet media was a bit more factual. I've never seen anything worse that the NYT and their minor fellows.
Reading the NYT is reading the nature of the power relations in the US part of the Empire. You can see the factions jostling for position in the pages of the Times so it's a good way of knowing what the Deep State is up to.
Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Jun 30 2025 18:52 utc | 63
Somehow, I'm sure even quotes from the aforementioned contributors could serve as the thread for tying a more balanced article together. Giving the readers a clear understanding of who these people are and the ideological positions that they likely represent, as B has done, should be mandatory. However, the contents and scope of the article are completely boilerplate, essentially saying nothing -- something may or may not have changed due to the recent hostilities, processes may or may not have been set in motion by which things may or may not change in the future.
This open-ended prediction skirts potential developments which, presumably, are seen as unpalatable -- such as the conflict on the contrary strengthening political unity and adding to social cohesion within Iran, as some, including President Putin, believe has happened. Of course, mentioning this, or considering whether Iran might not in fact have strengthened its deterrent in the course of the conflict, rather than claiming its opposite as unassailable fact, even if only to play devil's advocate, would more likely be received with scorn rather than interest, by lobby groups, pundits, representatives and lobbyists, as well as segments of the general public invested in the prevailing narrative. It would challenge their intelligence and authority, raise uncomfortable questions, and the most effective defense would be an attack on the publication, its loyalties and integrity. Why risk it? For what?
This article doesn't just adhere to the narrative dogma, but actively avoids presenting any relevant information by which some new conclusion could be drawn, appealing instead to historical precedent and poetic language. It's light reading without any substance, and intentionally so, since the Iran-Israel affair is still at a stage where any formally stated fact or conclusion could create future contradiction for which those responsible may eventually be accused of wrongthink. Something has to be written and said, while being ephemeral enough not to create any footholds, and this article achieves it. To my mind, it is not intended to give anyone an understanding, or even misunderstanding, of Iran or anything else for that matter, but simply to churn out passable writing in and around a topical subject in a way that's maximally safe in terms of the relevant political environment.
Posted by: Skiffer | Jun 30 2025 19:10 utc | 64
Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Jun 30 2025 18:52 utc | 63
Exactly.
How else is one going to 'know thy enemy"?
Posted by: canuk | Jun 30 2025 19:27 utc | 65
@Ahenobarbus #38
You should watch this récent Todd vidéo rather than « conclude » based on whatever older source !
What he says on Iran, the subject of current thread, is insightful and unique / and disconnected from Israël on many aspects
Posted by: Dany | Jun 30 2025 18:48 utc | 62
Todd is a Zionist- such that any of his ideas on anything in the ME are discredited
Posted by: canuk | Jun 30 2025 19:29 utc | 66
"I don't call them Zionazis for nothing. Their abusive step father taught them well."
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jun 30 2025 17:05 utc | 51
Best idea I have read today.
Posted by: canuk | Jun 30 2025 19:33 utc | 67
I’d be quite concerned if any government policy was formed solely on the basis of “press investigations”, let alone foreign policy. I wouldn’t bake a cake from a NYT recipe.
Posted by: Patroklos | Jun 30 2025 19:34 utc | 68
@Canuk #66
Todd a sionist ? What type of sionist by the way ? How do You justify such an unwarranted claim ?
Again, what hé says in this vidéo on Iran (and Israël) is very smart and valuable.
Posted by: Dany | Jun 30 2025 19:47 utc | 69
I watched a very uplifting video from a young women showcasing the "new" Mariupol and it was a wonderful 3-4 minutes that made my heart soar!
Fvck the NYT and all us and brutish toxic media.
Posted by: bisfab | Jun 30 2025 19:51 utc | 70
the mainstream news is the absolute worst place to try to understand what is happening...
Posted by: james | Jun 30 2025 15:02 utc | 12
I learned that back in 1980 with the Iran Hostage crisis. None of what was reported reflected on the truth of the matter. It was just 'nuke Iran' and kill the Ayatollah...sadly, I too bought in to the MSM bullshit and had a target Ayatollah poster on my wall...
My road to Damascus began there. Years later, after much global travel, and much reflection, I have come to see that MSM is a corporate arm of the Government shaping perception...much like Pravda was in E. Europe (but slicker). The difference being, that Pravda was recognized for what it was- the lying mouth piece of the State...Unfortunately, my colleagues and peers watch CBC and read the Globe and Mail- and remain enchanted by the narrative. The dissonance as events change and facts are altered, doesn't even register...
There is a nice quote from George Orwell reporting from the ?Spanish civil war- where reports abound about battles that never were, and silence about massacres that were perpetrated. It seems that my time is not new to this manipulation...
Posted by: Original Newbie | Jun 30 2025 20:00 utc | 71
How is any policy maker supposed to get some understanding of Iran from it?My guess is that the rationale is supposed to be, the true policy makers rely on information in the private reports to them by their security agencies. There is the problem that the security agencies rely, because they must, on the academy as well as signals intelligence, human spies etc. The probable main purpose of these public disseminations is to misinform the reading public as much as possible.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Jun 30 2025 20:04 utc | 72
Not "random guesses" b, but rather carefully cultivated hate in the poisonous soil and rot.
Posted by: Mark Moore | Jun 30 2025 20:07 utc | 73
“How can we know what we are told merely?”
— H.D. Thoreau
Posted by: Cato the Uncensored | Jun 30 2025 20:08 utc | 74
Posted by: Markw | Jun 30 2025 17:54 utc | 58
Priests are at the top of our western social hierarchy, eh? Well, okie dokie, Mark.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jun 30 2025 20:08 utc | 75
I could not post my last comment until I removed "of Z_ _ _ ism" at the end, although 6 other versions of the word exist on this post not ending in "ism." What is happening?
Posted by: Mark Moore | Jun 30 2025 20:12 utc | 76
Here's a nice example of Imperialist propaganda and a confirmation that literally every accusation is a confession when it comes to Imperialist proxys.
"Ukraine
Russia pays young Ukrainians to be unwitting suicide bombers in shadow war
Oleh, 19, was offered $1,000 for a paint attack on a police station – but the bag he was given contained a crude bomb"
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jun 30 2025 20:17 utc | 77
To concur with others, this is a feature not a bug. They know damn well they're lying liars. The key is to keep the hoi polloi from finding out. Impossible you say? And yet Israel is starving Gazans, to steal their land, before the eyes of the world and nothing is being done. Speaking in support of the people being murdered is in some states criminalized. What does that tell you? The Zionist conspiracy is well and truly deeply rooted.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jun 30 2025 20:20 utc | 78
It's a glitch in the matrix.
Just like a non declared nuclear program dictating terms to a declared nuclear program through an agency it doesn't belong to.
Can things get more orwellion?t
Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jun 30 2025 20:22 utc | 79
Short answer: they are not.
Longer answer: these are just grist for the neocon war propaganda machine.
Net net: NYT is a rag. No doubt it was reputable some long time ago, but today it is garbage.
Posted by: c1ue | Jun 30 2025 20:48 utc | 80
Interesting development : the Durham Miners Gala is the biggest left / working class event in the UK (second Saturday in July). They've just announced that one of the speakers will be Husam Zomlot, the Palestinian ambassador to the UK. There has always been a sizeable pro-Palestine bloc at the event.
This is very much giving the finger to Starmer (who very much isn't invited, and Reform UK, who seized power in the local elections in May, and who also aren't invited.
Last year's Gala : https://youtu.be/Z4XNONAwf94?si=zTnm792tvfpxmGAd
Posted by: Red Star | Jun 30 2025 20:48 utc | 81
Going Underground: CMSGT Dennis Fitz
https://www.rt.com/shows/going-underground/620758-fritz-iran-prudent-nuclear-weapons/
"It would be prudent for Iran to develop nuclear weapons."
Recommended.
Posted by: JohnGilberts | Jun 30 2025 20:50 utc | 82
It’s a fairly typical NYT op-ed piece in which the sources are all card carrying members of the western propaganda establishment. There is not a trustworthy opinion to be found. Fortunately, more and more readers seem to be catching on.
Posted by: Rob | Jun 30 2025 21:18 utc | 83
USA-Israel wanted regime change and that failed, so the NYT job is to clean that up and keep the regime-change energy going. Without admitting that this was actually the aim of the failed operation.
Posted by: Meredith Hobbs | Jun 30 2025 21:20 utc | 84
One very minor detail in B's post needs correcting: Roxana Saberi's father Reza Saberi is Iranian and her mother Akiko is Japanese.
The "-ko" suffix (meaning "child") used to be very common in Japanese girls' names but I understand it started becoming less commonly used for female children in Japan after 1970.
Reza is a common boys' name in Iran.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jun 30 2025 21:26 utc | 85
Interesting. Perhaps, they will convince the Israelis to attack again because they “won” according to western propaganda. However, this time no embedded agents, no drones operating from truck, and AD set up to intercept from Azerbaijan whose Israeli base will get destroyed at first notice. Should the Israelis not understand then real life killing targets will be attacked such as desalinization plants, Ashdod port, and the ammonia storage tanks in Haifa. Lots of targets were deliberately avoided before but will be destroyed the second go around.
One can hope Israel understands all of this but Iran has escalation dominance.
Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Jun 30 2025 21:27 utc | 86
One can hope Israel understands all of this but Iran has escalation dominance.
Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Jun 30 2025 21:27 utc | 86
They can't do anything militarily until they restock their AD and that'll take some time, therefore the natural assumption is they'll kick Mossad operations up a notch -- assassinations, sabotage, stoking civil unrest.
As you correctly noted, though, this little war burned most of Mossad's assets so they'll not be anywhere near as effective as they have been in the past.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Jun 30 2025 21:33 utc | 87
This has been itching me, as I keep hearing analysts persist that DT bombed Iran via B2's and escort jets (media reported 20-30 planes in Iranian air-space for 1-2hrs?).
I believe there is unrefutable 'absolute' evidence that counters these claims. I'm no expert on missiles, but unless I'm missing something that is so obvious.
It seems rather rudimentary when one looks at the facts (open-source), the math, and reasons from it.
🔴 Iran has possessing of domestic hyper-sonic ballistic missile technology that is equal or better to many of Russian and Americans weaponry that range in distances from 35km-2000km. Launches many military satellites into low earth-orbit. Possesses IRBM, ICBM missile tech e.g. Khorramshahr-3.
🔴 Iran has been lodging missiles and drones at Israel relentlessly, mostly counter-force strikes, hitting many of Israel's military installations, e.g. air defences. Full unmolested penetration for 12days non-stop.
🔴 For argument sake lets focus specifically in central Tel Aviv which is 1000 miles (1,600km) distance from Tehan. Some missiles were said to be 'Oreshnik' like, breaking the atmosphere.
🔴 Tel Aviv is 1000 miles.
1 mile = 5,280 ft,
1,000 miles = 5,280,000 ft
B2's (from 1990s) surface ceiling altitude of 50,000 ft to drop munitions in active military operation.
🔴 We are led to believe that Iran was blinded, couldn't hit, etc, seems to be "all complete BullShit".
🔴 In summary, Iran has proven that it is capable of hitting and controlling high-altitude objects specifically high value stealth drones. I believe these US bombers and jets never entered Iranian airspace and never did any sorties, bombing runs.
Which further proves it was complete 'fake' theatre, pr-stunt for western audience.
Unless someone has a better explanation.
PS: Last time I bring this up... just got tired of hearing 'sane' analysts mention it.
Posted by: TheTurk | Jun 30 2025 21:41 utc | 88
https://x.com/Megatron_ron/status/1938621016915443819
Megatron @Megatron_ron
🇺🇲🇮🇱🇮🇷 U.S. Used Up 15-20 Percent of its Global THAAD Anti-Missile Arsenal in Just 11 Days of Mid-Intensity Combat: Cost Over $800 Million - Military Watch
https://x.com/MenchOsint/status/1939727564374946250
MenchOsint @MenchOsint
🇮🇷⚔️🇮🇱 Following the 12 days-war between NATO/Israel & Iran, reports show that Israel is actively refilling its air defense & offensive weapons stockpiles, & so is doing USA in its Middle East Bases.
Iran in the meantime is reorganizing its military structure following assassinations & multiple strikes on strategic facilities/air defenses.
The polymarket on the war restarting next month is at 31%.
https://sonar21.com/israel-suffered-extensive-damage/
Israel Suffered Extensive Damage - Larry Johnson
......Personally, I find it incomprehensible that Iran would trust any deal offered by Trump in light of his betrayal of the previous negotiations — i.e., he allowed Israel to launch the decapitation strike on June 13 rather than postpone the action in order to continue talks, which were schedule for June 15. My advice to Iran is simple: Solidify your military ties to Russia and China, launch a massive counterintelligence campaign to identify and eliminate those elements collaborating with Mossad and Western intelligence agencies, replenish and harden air-defense systems, and build more ballistic missiles......
Posted by: michaelj72 | Jun 30 2025 22:02 utc | 89
patroklos wouldn't bake a NY times cake, well, they famously presented a recipe for guacamole made with peas. So,....
On another note, anyone following Iraq, and the Sadrist? This pause allows Iran to coordinate with other proxies who could bring a new dimension to the fight with AD and even ground forces.
Posted by: Scottindallas | Jun 30 2025 22:05 utc | 90
Re interviewing real experts, they might not say what NYT et al. want to hear. Eg, I once heard NPR's Nina Totenberg interviewing Robert McC. Adams, archaeologist famous for his work in Iraq. Totenberg asked Adams if any antiquities like th ziggurat of Ur were in danger from the up-coming bombing campaign and war. Adams said he didn't think so, and anyway he was more worried about his Iraqi friends, that people were more important than buildings! Totenberg made no reply. Perhaps she'd never thought of an Iraqi as a real human being. :-(
Posted by: lester | Jun 30 2025 22:10 utc | 91
Old Microbiologist, NO, Iran isn't going to abandon their ideals now and attack desalination plants and they're not getting a nuke. They have ideals you don't. Don't know how to read Ira. Take them as earnest and don't underestimate them. Jeez you guys get carried away with yourselves.
Posted by: Scottindallas | Jun 30 2025 22:18 utc | 92
Steven, these think tanks absolutely exist to create echo chambers for the politicians. You think these guys are sitting around studying the issues? lol, they don't care about the minutia of policy. They push bills these think tanks write and lobby for. Our politicians are the real target of our propaganda,ale no mistake. A few may know better and study policy, but politicians are weather vanes.
Posted by: Scottindallas | Jun 30 2025 22:24 utc | 93
Lester, indeed, they interview broken clocks, otherwise they'd have to actually work, a research. I loved pouncing on the local NPR guests. Eliot Cohen, pardoned for lying to Congress over Iran Contra, and later advocate for every Neocon war teaches at Army War College. I asked him if he could cite one example where he didn't advocate for more weapons or war? He flew into a rage he never recovered from. Nailed Dershowitz, surely Palestinians are worthy a fair trial just like OJ Simpson, he never came back either. They bring them on cause they know exactly what they're gonna say.
Posted by: Scottindallas | Jun 30 2025 22:29 utc | 94
RE: “One can hope Israel understands all of this but Iran has escalation dominance.”
Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Jun 30 2025 21:27 utc | 86
If it were just Israel vs Iran, I would agree.
But the facts are that the war is worse than Ukraine proxy vs Russia currently. Russia dealing with Ukraine/NATO/US, whereas Iran has Israel/NATO/US/All Arab ME collaborators as well.
Oddly in the end, Iran will still prevail as omg as they can prevent land invasion of Syrian/Turk/Kurd /Wahabbi death squads.
Anyways, as for escalation “dominance” not at all. USReal has proven over and over, they will assassinate and fire at will anytime.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Jun 30 2025 22:42 utc | 96
So the same exact thing with US media and Russia, China and any other country not totally sold out to western private finance. Russia is probably the worst, with idiots like Ann Applebaum and that other chick who writes for the Atlantic masquerading as "experts." That and a bunch of long-term expats who conveniently have only been expats since the current government of the respective country came to power, usually multiple decades. Conservative commercial media doesn't even try to pretend, but at least 'left' and 'right' alternative media will talk to people actually in those countries.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 30 2025 22:44 utc | 97
The only value in the NYT is knowing what the elite class is talking about at any given time. For example, I think Ron Unz and Noam Chomsky still read it just for that reason.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jun 30 2025 22:48 utc | 98
As with Ukraine and the nonsense about it winning and Russia losing, the same with Israel and Iran. They never learn. It is a wonder they can do their own shoe laces up. From this we can deduce that Israel will therefore become another Ukraine - too bad.
The Ministry of Truth is the Ministry of Propaganda.
Posted by: George | Jun 30 2025 22:53 utc | 99
B keeps playing this stupid game with his readers with this propaganda pas des deux with known propaganda organs. NYTimes and B are in the same business just different publishers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEnQt0xAesw (his prognosis for the regime is termonal)
That man in the video Bernhard (team) used to run Ali Khamanei's "NYTimes". You will never of course discuss or attempt to "take down" this sort of content since it is completely off the official narrative your publisher and NYTimes publisher (partners and colleagues Bernie) keep pushing. But we never get to hear from this sort of regime insides turned dissidents but we do get that joker from New Jersey (anything good ever come out of NJ?) "professor" "Dr." and his "dad the physician to the ogre". CRiNGE.
Posted by: konichiwa | Jun 30 2025 23:02 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Like Russia Like Iran
Posted by: Sam | Jun 30 2025 14:39 utc | 1