Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 13, 2025
Uncertainty Of Future Tariffs Continues To Hamstring Economy

On April 2 President Donald Trump declared "Liberation Day," announcing a new tariff strategy aimed at allegedly correcting trade imbalances and protecting U.S. workers and industries.

It was the wrong medicine for misdiagnosed illness. Internal U.S. economic problems are caused by legal incentives for financial speculation and disincentives to produce goods people need. Tariffs won't solve that problem.

The tariff rates Trump introduced were ignoring economic realities. The whole economic concept behind was based on some advisors weird theory. It was obvious that the whole Trump strategy implemented through tariffs would fail.

China and other pushed back against U.S. tariffs by introducing some on their own. The markets reacted appropriately. The values of the U.S. dollar, U.S. stock markets and U.S. treasuries decreased.

By April 9 Trump was forced to pull back. He paused the tariffs for most countries for 90 days but increased tariffs on China.

China responded in kind. 

Three days later Trump announced another retreat. Smartphones and computers were excluded from the previously introduced tariffs.

Speculators may well have liked the uncertainty Trump's irresponsible tariff tactics introduced into financial markets. But for markets of real goods uncertainty is a venom that blocks all activities. It soon became obvious that the tariffs would cause huge problems for the U.S. economy.

Trump tried to press China to concede to U.S. terms in some new trade deal. But China rejected all talks until tariffs were reestablished at the previous levels.

That concession was made. Talks over the weekend in Geneva saw the U.S., again, pulling back.

The editors of the Wall Street Journal don't hold back in their comment:

Rarely has an economic policy been repudiated as soundly, and as quickly, as President Trump’s Liberation Day tariffs—and by Mr. Trump’s own hand. Witness the agreement Monday morning to scale back his punitive tariffs on China—his second major retreat in less than a week. This is a win for economic reality, and for American prosperity.

Make that a partial win for reality. The Administration agreed to scrap most of the 145% tariff Mr. Trump imposed on Chinese goods on April 2 and later. What remains is his new 10% global base-line tariff, plus the separate 20% levy putatively tied to China’s role in the fentanyl trade, for a total rate of 30%. In exchange, Beijing will reduce its retaliatory tariff to 10% from 125%. The deal is good for 90 days to start, as negotiations continue.

And therein, I believe, still lies the big problem.

The editors conclude:

The 30% tariff is still exceptionally high for a major trading partner, but the 90-day rollback spares both sides from what looked like an impending economic crackup. U.S. consumers were facing widespread shortages, while China feared growing unemployment.

For now, nothing will change with those symptoms.

It is not only the very high 30% tariff (for mostly products with very low profit margins) that will prevent Chinese factories from resuming production and U.S. retailers from restocking their shelves.

The poison that still paralyses everything is the uncertainty and insecurity that comes with the 90 days limit of the deal and with no perspective of what might follow. Who will post orders for, let's say return-to-school items, if it is unknown what price will have to be paid for them?

Paul Krugman agrees:

The prohibitive tariff has been paused, not canceled. Nobody knows what will happen in 90 days. I’ve long argued that the uncertainty created by Trump’s arbitrary, ever-changing tariffs is at least as important as the level of those tariffs. Well, the uncertainty level has arguably gone up rather than down.

This retreat probably hasn’t come soon enough to avoid high prices and empty shelves. Even if shipments from Shanghai to Los Angeles — which had come to a virtual halt — were to resume tomorrow, stuff wouldn’t arrive in time to avoid exhaustion of current inventories.

I guess it’s good news that Trump slammed on the brakes before driving completely off the cliff. But if you think that rationality has returned to the policy process, that the days of government by ignorant whim are now behind us, you’ll be sorely disappointed.

I agree with that take.

Comments

Posted by: Mr. House | May 13 2025 22:19 utc | 95
##########
I’m not defending b. He’s a grown man who can handle his own business.
I think it is in poor taste to hang out on a website and trash the owner.
If you don’t like b, that’s your prerogative. Don’t force yourself to comment if you are being sincere that you don’t like MoA. That’s cognitive dissonance.
Why do I dislike the West?
Oppression, murder, theft, and arrogance.
If the West didn’t clearly embody and practice those things, I wouldn’t have an issue with it.
Putting it all together, I see the West as an impediment to humanity flourishing. Being raised in the West, I wish that were not true, but I believe objective evidence indicates that it is.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 13 2025 23:36 utc | 101

Why are you replying to disrupters ?
Unless you too are here to disrupt.

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 13 2025 23:36 utc | 102

Paul Krugman has never been right, in my opinion; I believe he’s wrong once more.

Posted by: canuck | May 13 2025 23:49 utc | 103

Excellent b,
But here’s the real grift by the Trump family. It is the biggest scam carried out by any president in US history.
So what’s the grift ?
You sell a USD stable coin that does not pay interest, take the USD$ you receive for the coin and invest it dollar for dollar in US govt bonds and collect the interest on the bonds for yourself….
So if you sold $1B of your coins and put the $1B you received in 10 yr USTs paying 3.7%. You make $37M every year for ten years just to operate a blockchain system.
Everybody with me so far – Yes ?
Trumps USD1 coin is now up and running . He has sold $2.2B issued in just a couple of weeks on an exchange…,
At the Fed’s current 4.40% risk free rate Trump is already making $88M per year.
If he can get issuance up to $100B coins then he’s grossing $4B per year.
When the FED does not cut rates Trump is now able to take advantage of that personally via his stablecoin.
So with the higher rates he makes a fortune with his stablecoin while if they lower rates he’ll make a fortune with his CRE and DJT shares.
He’s figured out a way to hedge the FED.
Not for the American people but for himself.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 13 2025 23:50 utc | 104

“Putting it all together, I see the West as an impediment to humanity flourishing. Being raised in the West, I wish that were not true, but I believe objective evidence indicates that it is.”
Posted by: LoveDumbass | May 13 2025 23:36 utc | 101
You are a simplistic idiot.
You need to read more, post less.

Posted by: canuck | May 13 2025 23:51 utc | 105

Tariffs were never going to fix American economy let alone bring back manufacturing. Trump if he really wanted to bring back manufacturing should’ve held a town hall with the sp500 CEO’s and said bring back manufacturing or else we raise taxes, at least that would have a fighting chance of working
Posted by: Ggersh | May 13 2025 17:40 utc | 21
American manufacturers are struggling to fill the jobs they already have and deporting “illegal” migrants will only exacerbate employment. There are overhalf a million open manufacturing jobs right now.

Posted by: Menz | May 13 2025 23:54 utc | 106

William Huo
@wmhuo168
Lula didn’t go to Beijing for optics. He went to bury the Monroe Doctrine and revive the Global South. This thread breaks down why his visit marks a turning point in the collapse of U.S. hegemony and the rise of BRICS power.
https://x.com/wmhuo168/status/1922175935723229527

Posted by: Menz | May 13 2025 23:56 utc | 107

Posted by: canuck | May 13 2025 23:51 utc | 105
Ad hominem attacks don’t speak well.
Refute his argument with evidence. Come up with a thought. How would you defend the moral and cultural rot that has infested the West?

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 14 2025 0:03 utc | 108

Posted by: Badjoke | May 13 2025 19:34 utc | 55
RE: had the U.S. ever pegged its currency to a gold standard-?
<< The Nixon Shock was the effect of a series of economic measures, including wage and price freezes, surcharges on imports, and the unilateral cancellation of the direct international convertibility of the United States dollar to gold, taken by president Richard Nixon on 15 August 1971 in response to increasing inflation.

Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 14 2025 0:19 utc | 109

Brian Berletic, New Atlas, nails the analytics simplistic. “Continuity of agenda” draws all Preznits, especially since the 90’s into the same deep state pattern, to Rule the World, crush all countries who do not bow. That leaves only N. Korea, Iran, Russia, and the big contender, CHINA, as the only 4 out of 200 some odd countries on the planet as cockblocks to headja’money over the whole shooting match.

Posted by: genOmega | May 14 2025 0:27 utc | 110

cont. from genOmega
Fast forward to right now, the Orange King is the puppet of Great Shadows, annointed to burn it all down, barely survive,and be the King of Ashes. Brian Berletic likens it to the Captain ordering batten all hatches, ramming speed, steady course to the enemy ship, China. The China sinks, but the ‘Merka, badly damaged, wins the day and sails on to rule all, forever.

Posted by: genOmega | May 14 2025 0:42 utc | 111

cont. genOmega
Has USA military not encircled Russia/China with both old school and modern warcraft? From horse and buggy days massive aircraft carriers right off the coast of China/Russia, inviting the rage trigger of hypersonic 6k casualties to whip up the required public enthusiasm to exchange the hard sweat of labor for the lust of blood.

Posted by: genOmega | May 14 2025 0:53 utc | 112

cont. genOmega
Has USA military not encircled Russia/China with both old school and modern warcraft? From horse and buggy days massive aircraft carriers right off the coast of China/Russia, inviting the rage trigger of hypersonic 6k casualties to whip up the required public enthusiasm to exchange the hard sweat of labor for the lust of blood.

Posted by: genOmega | May 14 2025 0:53 utc | 113

Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 14 2025 0:19 utc | 109
They still don’t understand the massive difference between conversion and exchange.
Listen to Judge Napolitano as an example.
” All Fiat currencies are crashing ”
Nope doesn’t work that way. If one weakens in a currency pair the other one gets stronger. That’s how dumb The judge is.
The Gold Standard Mostly Ended in 1933-34
Here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rzGP1Q7PG_4&pp=ygUbV2FycmVuIG1vc2xlciBnb2xkIHN0YW5kYXJk0gcJCYsJAYcqIYzv
A Gold Standard Is Extremely Wasteful
Here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aHcNvG34Q6Q&pp=ygUbV2FycmVuIG1vc2xlciBnb2xkIHN0YW5kYXJk
The Dollar’s Value Dropped 95% Since 1900…But Standard of Living Rose 1000%
Here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WqxB775qnP4&pp=ygVKV2FycmVuIG1vc2xlciB0aGUgZG9sbGFyIGxvc3QgaXRzIHZhbHVlIHN0YW5kYXJkIG9mIGxpdmluZyBpbmNyZWFzZWQgMTAwMCU%3D
Return to a gold standard – don’t even think about it
Here:
https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=20754
Gold standard and fixed exchange rates – myths that still prevail
Here:
https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=2562
In summary:
Why BRICS ignored the gold bugs completely and were not that dumb to believe anything they have to say.
They have absolutely no idea how money works. Never stop telling you how to fix it lol.
The biggest gold bug at the bar didn’t even understand banking. Thought is was fixed rate exchange rate fractional reserve banking. That tells you EVERYTHING you need to know about the gold bugs.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 0:58 utc | 114

cont. genOmega
Not to mention 60-80+ newfangled drone bases around ChiRusNorKIran for good measure. Anybody here notice the US war machine being remade and refitted to fight a war against China? Like, among other things mentioned, the new makeover for the Marines, as open sea missile pirates? Try to sell your high quality, inexpensive high-tech wonders with Old Glory above The Jolly Roger in and on both sides of the Panama Canal, extended across huge distances of Greenland and Canadian coastal shipping lanes. Show your papers, achtung!

Posted by: genOmega | May 14 2025 1:06 utc | 115

Things that are often missed with the tariffs discussion:
1. Countries don’t trade, only individuals do, only if it is win-win
2. Tariffs across the board don’t work to stimulate domestic production — if that’s what you want you need targeted measures, and supporting efforts, not just tariffs. You need an industrial policy & plans.
3. Trade deficits mean you are getting something for nothing, not that you are being scammed

Posted by: Webej | May 14 2025 1:07 utc | 116

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 0:58 utc | 114
RE: the gold bugs are getting exercised
<< Some of the most insane comments happen when b posts on the economic front. Today is a case in point. Quick technical tidbit: go to estate sales and start buying the forks, spoons & knives, just to have on hand easy-to-exchange 3 ounce pieces of .995 silver, should they become necessary. Grocery stores of the future may be *weighing* your currency: at silver's current rate, one spoon will buy you a pound of meat, a pound of pasta and a dozen eggs. A fave item, if you can find them, what used to be called 'ice cream forks.' They look like sporks and were popular @ the turn of the 19th to 20th Century: 5 ounces of .995

Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 14 2025 1:14 utc | 117

” All Fiat currencies are crashing ”
Nope doesn’t work that way. If one weakens in a currency pair the other one gets stronger. That’s how dumb The judge is.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 0:58 utc | 114
Either you’re not as smart as you think you are; or you’re being a bit dishonest here.
If all currencies are experiencing significant inflation, crashing in value against reall goods, then all currencies would be crashing. The statement might be a bit hyperbolic, but I think very many currencies are losing a lot of purchasing power.

Posted by: HB Brian | May 14 2025 1:15 utc | 118

Those tariffs are a tax on the American people. More Gov revenue, added to Trump’s planned tax breaks for the rich and one trillion to the MIC, while kicking Americans off Medicaid, SNAP and Housing.
A friend of mine was visiting from the Philippines this past weekend. He has dual American and Phillipine citizenship. He visits here every 6 months or so. He told me, “Every time I visit here now, I’m reminded just how abnormal and sick American gov and society is now”
Indeed. We get the clowns we elect via all the clowns in our society. Those who cheer these ridiculous tariffs and taking medical care away from poor people.
Lovely folks, we Americans, eh? Right along with the lovely politicians we put into office.

Posted by: Kat | May 14 2025 1:18 utc | 119

How would you describe the politics and ideology of someone who constantly quotes and agrees with U.S. imperialists and deep-state–aligned, Democrat-supporting mainstream media figures like The New York Times and Paul Krugman?
Are they a political radical? A revolutionary socialist? A committed ally of the Global South and its struggle against Anglo-Saxon-Zionist imperialism? A supporter of emerging multipolar institutions like BRICS and the SCO?
Or are they simply echoing the narrative of the very empire they claim to oppose—perhaps without even realizing it? It doesn’t add up. At least not in any internally consistent way. Because for me if the The New York Times and Paul Krugman are saying it then it essentially biased ideology at work and dishonest imperialist propaganda at worst–no matter how much they are critical of Donald J Trump.

Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 1:28 utc | 120

cont. GenOmega
Nuttinyahoo said jump, Clinton gave Iraq free firework shows. Also Bosnia and Kosovo,Somalia, wild times in Rwanda…
Bush Jr. made the globe safe from terrists by arming the nice warlords and extremely religious in Afghanistan, then he handle all of the weapons of mass distraction in Iraq, and started the renaming thing way before DJT with “Freedom Fries!”

Posted by: genOmega | May 14 2025 1:29 utc | 121

Tariffs are not enough you also need capital control to eliminate Chinese trade surpluses.
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:aday7msfnpqba7psqpjq3pij/post/3loy7wll2n22m

Posted by: Poul | May 14 2025 1:35 utc | 122

b By April 9 Trump was forced to pull back. He paused the tariffs for most countries for 90 days but increased tariffs on China. China responded in kind. Three days later Trump announced another retreat. Smartphones and computers were excluded from the previously introduced tariffs.

While the Trump administration publicly announced exemptions for smartphones, computers, and other electronics from the steep reciprocal tariffs in April 2025, this move didn’t signify a complete retreat. Instead, these products were shifted into a different regulatory category, subject to existing trade protection measures.
Forbes+GMA Network+Financial Times +12 others
Specifically, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency listed 20 product categories, including smartphones and computers, as exempt from the new tariffs. However, these items remained under scrutiny for potential future trade actions, such as Section 232 tariffs, which are designed to protect national security interests.
GMA Network+1 mint+1 Wikipedia
Moreover, while these exemptions provided temporary relief for major tech companies like Apple, being the main trigger for that policy adjustment, the administration maintained a 20% tariff on Chinese technology imports, indicating a continued strategic approach to managing tech-related trade.
Financial Times
Therefore, the exclusion of smartphones and computers from the immediate tariff list was more of a logical tactical adjustment rather than a full-scale policy reversal incorrectly implied by b above. It allowed the administration to mitigate immediate economic impacts while keeping options open for future trade enforcement.
It matters not if one is pro-Trump or Anti, these are the true facts of the matter. This was publicly disclosed by the Trump administration and widely reported at the time by the referenced media sources above. There was no “retreat” by Trump.
This kind of misrepresentation (inadvertent unknowing errors?) is unfortunately too common in B’s output. Irrespective of the cause, key details are either omitted or distorted, feeding a loyal audience that rarely questions the resulting narrative or the inaccurate conclusions. Critical nuance—like the strategic repositioning of tech imports into alternative trade categories—is lost, replaced with simplistic takes that flatter entrenched biases. This happens so often it’s no wonder that attempts to inject factual clarity often provoke hostility rather than reflection.

Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 2:00 utc | 123

George | May 13 2025 23:03 utc | 99
*** Trump shouldn’t be called POTUS, IMPOTUS is more correct.
He’s like the guy that brags about how many women he has had but in reality can’t get it up.***
He seems to go for somewhat unattractive bints anyway.

Posted by: Cynic | May 14 2025 2:03 utc | 124

Posted by: Poul | May 14 2025 1:35 utc | 122
#######
There is a simple and reliable way to beat the Chinese.
Make better stuff at a better price.
I believe that America has been a colonizer for so long that it has forgotten how to make things. It’s a lot easier for businesses to pay politicians to build moats around their models to keep competition out, and to turn R&D into stock market speculation, rather than pursuing market excellence through innovation. American firms don’t invest in R&D, they are more likely to spend on stock buybacks to raise share prices.
Competition is how better products at better prices get made.
Monopoly (and corporatism) were inherited from the British economic model (EIC).
America needs a political enema with hardcore enforcement against monopoly AND financialization if it wants to last another 100 years.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 14 2025 2:15 utc | 125

Bah. Trumps tariffs have many people scared but fundamentally he’s right. The US economy simply can’t trade dollars for goods forever, it’s corrosive for everyone. It must change and it will suddenly or managed. Tariffs can manage it vs a cataclysmic sudden change.
So we’re all drowning in the sky is falling propaganda but it’s just the screeching of people losing privileged entitlement. Basically change will happen whether we want it to or not.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 14 2025 2:17 utc | 126

I criticize B because he can do better. He has a nice site here that developed with a fine roster of commenters due primarily because he got Ukraine right.
Alright, my mistake. It wasn’t a function of cogent analysis, but rather a manifestation of mere oppositional disorder.
In the hours since B rehashed the standard anti-MAGA bullshit coming from the usual suspects, news came out about the KSA deals.
Wow, completely blindsided again because of the core factor that destroys most incompentents: the simple ability to assess new facts and adjust expectations accordingly.
Some things never change: malcontents like B, LoveDonbass, et al will never amount to anything, never *did* amount to anything, because they could never get their personality defects under control.

Posted by: Markw | May 14 2025 2:19 utc | 127

yes – krugmans comment ”days of gov’t by ignorant whim” or media by malevolent whim – you get a regular dose of ongoing bullshit, no matter how you slice it whether it be trump or most msm pundits commentary on world events…

Posted by: james | May 14 2025 2:33 utc | 128

I posted a couple of comments on the original post and then took a step back to see how others were reacting. What I found was striking—not because it echoed my own criticisms, but because it underscored a deeper issue: B never engages in any kind of dialogue. He won’t defend his premises, explain his rationale, or even correct basic factual errors. That just isn’t how things are done here.

If Krugman agrees, make sure to do just the opposite…….
Posted by: Simple J. Malarkey | May 13 2025 16:52 utc | 2
Notice that Krugman, a NYTimes disinformation specialist, You’d have to mathematically illiterate…no change that, arithmetically-challenged, to accept this misdirection.
Posted by: S Brennan | May 13 2025 16:56 utc | 5
Meanwhile the “root causes” get ignored, most notably by mainstream economists like Krugman, whose main goal is to maintain the status quo—the exorbitant, debt fuelled privilege of the dollar, which overvalues the dollar and results in massive, unsustainable trade deficits.
Posted by: JohnH | May 13 2025 17:22 utc | 14
Paul Krugman’s ONLY claim to fame is his nose. Nothing else!
Posted by: Truth be told | May 13 2025 17:44 utc | 23
But now you’re doing a complete 180 by embracing the likes of the Wall street journal, Krugman, et al, quoting and referencing them as if they are now unimpeachable fountains of truth….some kind of weird personality disorder masked as analysis?
Posted by: Markw | May 13 2025 18:05 utc | 27
I ADVISE anyone who wants to be taken seriously about ANYTHING to avoid quoting Krugman…!!!
Posted by: Liberator | May 13 2025 18:12 utc | 31
Krugman blames the trial-and-error strategy with the tariffs on Trump’s ignorance. As if the discipline of which he is a representative is very knowledgeable -Economy as a pseudo-science.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | May 13 2025 18:42 utc | 37
Paul Krugman has never been right on anything. Those living in the United States who actually know who he is consider him a laughing stock and treat him as the butt-end of every joke.
Posted by: Monos | May 13 2025 19:56 utc | 61
“Paul Krugman agrees” That means the truth is 180 degrees opposite to whatever Mr Krugman agrees to.
Posted by: anonymousl | May 13 2025 20:21 utc | 66
Agreeing with Krugman. You are not authorised to steal our schtick. This returns your analytical skills to their covid level. 0/10
Posted by: The Onion | May 13 2025 20:52 utc | 74
The Krugman group were oh so successful…….a $36 T national debt, massive trade deficit…..oopss I forgot……
Posted by: tobias cole | May 13 2025 20:56 utc | 76
Sorry B. Have to disagree. If Krugman states something, the opposite likely the truth. Guess we will see.
Posted by: Pick | May 13 2025 21:00 utc | 77
No disrespect to our host was intended. Krugman is a Globalist mouthpiece.
Posted by: Pick | May 13 2025 21:06 utc | 80
You should keep your posts to issues of war and peace. Leave the trade discussions to someone else especially if you are to reference the little Ukrainian Paul Krugman.
Posted by: Wj03 | May 13 2025 22:37 utc | 98
Of course fools like Krugman will never provide an answer as they are there to simply create misdirection. Quoting Krugman on economics is like quoting Fauci on covid.
Posted by: Organic | May 13 2025 23:15 utc | 100
Paul Krugman has never been right, in my opinion; I believe he’s wrong once more.
Posted by: canuck | May 13 2025 23:49 utc | 103
and this final classic:
In the hours since B rehashed the standard anti-MAGA bullshit coming from the usual suspects, news came out about the KSA deals. Wow, completely blindsided again because of the core factor that destroys most incompentents: the simple ability to assess new facts and adjust expectations accordingly. Some things never change: malcontents like B, LoveDonbass, et al will never amount to anything, never *did* amount to anything, because they could never get their personality defects under control.
Posted by: Markw | May 14 2025 2:19 utc | 127

And so here we are: the regulars are restless, and for good reason. The chorus of pushback against B’s use of Krugman and NYTs WSJ establishment narratives isn’t just loud—it’s informed, cutting, and often deeply frustrated. It’s a shame, really. Because if there were ever a moment for B to break his silence and actually engage with his readers—on substance, not just censorship—this was it.

Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 2:59 utc | 129

I don’t know why anyone is still believing Trump knows what he is doing, he doesn’t, that’s why it makes no sense. He has made a relatively successful career following in his father’s footsteps and saying “your fired” to many employees that have done him service, but has no intellect and is never going to be statesman material. He is far too mentally lazy.

Posted by: George | May 14 2025 3:00 utc | 130

Trump is making us who supported his trade policies look bad. After having his people go all over the media to say they won’t lower the tariff rates on China, they did just that after only one month. At least hold out for a year or two before reversing yeah?
China demanded two things:
1. Drop the tariffs as condition before talks
2. The talks be conducted based on “equality and respect”
All of which Bessent ultimately complied with, after lying for weeks about having phantom discussions with China.
Reversing so quickly is just giving away all your leverage, not only with China but to all the other countries they’re having talks with.
My hope is that they will flip the table in 90 days and reimpose the tariffs, but that looks increasingly unlikely, and all they will do is try to spin this reversal as a win.

Posted by: Silent Waves | May 14 2025 3:05 utc | 131

I don’t know why anyone is still believing Trump knows what he is doing, he doesn’t, that’s why it makes no sense.
Comments like this aren’t surprising—but they miss the point entirely. Trump absolutely knows what he’s doing, or more precisely, he’s following a well-laid script crafted by those behind Project 2025 and his circle of techno-authoritarian billionaires who bankrolled his campaign. This plan has been public knowledge since mid-2024—at least the broad strokes. (Naturally, some aspects remain classified or opaque.)
The goal? To manage the looming collapse of the USD’s global dominance and avert a cascading debt crisis. The public rhetoric—the chaos, the provocations, the populist soundbites—is for mass consumption. But behind the scenes, there’s strategic coherence. The team behind Trump knows exactly what they’re doing, even if the presentation is deliberately disruptive.
They did hit a crisis point when things briefly spiraled out of control—but they reasserted control fast. The project remains unchanged. The tools, the strategy, the endgame—they’re all still in play. Disruption itself is a key tactic: confuse opponents, trigger overreactions, and keep critics off balance.
If you follow financial markets, consider this a heads-up: exiting risky positions before the weekend might not be the worst idea. Things are about to get turbulent—fast. Better safe than sorry.

Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 3:50 utc | 132

I have to say again, the MAGA cultists who think they’re ‘conservatives’ don’t need a president, they need a daddy. Right and left wing politics are for schmucks..the false dichotomy has become these useful idiots identities.
Utterly in thrall of the imbecilic US press distortions and the hall of mirrors you’ve been pulled into believing is real, like there’s a difference between democrats and Republicans. If you haven’t figured it out yet, America fucked herself, and the same two bit dipshits are here to save you. Are you feeling lucky, punks? Maericans are going to slowly come to this realization while the exceptionalists continue to throw their toys out of their baby carriages.
I was amused by the Maerican retreat from determined Houthi resistance, almost as much as I am by ‘King Trump Blowhard Pius XXII the Innocent’ pretending he didn’t back down on China tarriffs or that Ukraine isn’t a war that the US intel agencies provoked after decades of planning and manipulation of Ukrainian politics.
Pay your debts you deadbeats and get to fixing your broken, broke ass country.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | May 14 2025 3:51 utc | 133

Because if there were ever a moment for B to break his silence and actually engage with his readers—on substance, not just censorship—this was it.
Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 2:59 utc | 129

You clowns need to get over yourselves. So sorry that b made fun of your daddy. I’m sure he’s beautiful and tough and really great. He’s really not stupid and really there’s a super special plan to save your families in Buttfuck, USA.
All better now? Now wipe that snot off your faces. Absolutely pathetic.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | May 14 2025 3:57 utc | 134

Some things never change: malcontents like B, LoveDonbass, et al will never amount to anything, never *did* amount to anything, because they could never get their personality defects under control.
Posted by: Markw | May 14 2025 2:19 utc | 127

It seems you American exceptionalist types need an echo chamber parroting back your assumptions because you have fragile egos and even more fragile intellects. No wonder you think the world owes Maerica a free ride.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | May 14 2025 4:01 utc | 135

Can someone explain to me in a very clear way why China would agree to this *instead of* letting the American economy suffer irreparable damage??
Posted by: Perplexed | May 13 2025 16:58 utc | 7
The world is limited by world income, therefore there isn’t anywhere else in aggregate China can get rid of their excess supply for the same number of Yuan at the desired exchange rate. The end result is that China will have to cut production, or cause a glut that collapses prices. Cutting production means layoffs, failure to repay loans and business collapses, with the inevitable cascade effects throughout China. China could fix this, but it would require abandoning their ‘export led growth’ policy and handing power to workers by improving their prospects directly. The Party probably doesn’t like that idea.
Tariffs are a crude response to China playing mercantile games manipulating its own currency such that it drains dollar circulation from the US in order to promote its own exports. The tariffs restore that circulation, and the net effect, once the dust has settled, will be a shift of dollar savings from China to the US. The ‘global 10%’ is probably the primary mechanism. Everything else is a negotiating position.
A far more rational response would have been to stop paying interest on bank reserves and stop issuing Treasuries. Neo-mercantalists would then be left holding non-income paying financial assets as they prop up their excess exports. However that would require shifting the stabilisation policies from the market for money to the market for labour, and ending unemployment forever. Business probably doesn’t like that idea.

Posted by: The Accountant | May 14 2025 5:06 utc | 136

Posted by: The Accountant | May 14 2025 5:06 utc | 136
Love the Abraham Lincon policies at the end. It would be nice for a return of the radical republicans but unfortunately that party has been dogmatically liberal since 1912.

Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 6:25 utc | 137

Posted by: tobias cole | May 13 2025 17:33 utc | 18
I’m sorry, but you Americanos really need to stop it with the hallucinatory delusions about socialists hiding under your beds.
The Cold War at least notionally ended circa 1991, and the entire US political system is largely dominated by what could be referred to as hard right to extreme right parties. The only notionally left candidate, Jill Stein (who only got around 1% of the vote), would still be regarded as a centrist in most other nations.
At some point, the US is going to have to wake up and deal with the paranoid psychoses that seems to inflict a sizeable majority of the population.
No wonder your infrastructure is crumbling around you, as so many of you seem to think any public spending is indicative of a communist conspiracy brewing.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | May 14 2025 6:38 utc | 138

This is hilarious. If anything Trump 2.0 has exposed the fake leftists in the comment section.
Krugman- A neoliberal, globalist supporter whose economic ideology he subscribed to was responsible for the hollowing out of the US manufacturing base, offshoring of millions of jobs and the financialisation of the US economy- the rentier economy we see in the US now.
His economic views and theories were shat on upon by the left wing intelligentsia here who copy and pasted chapter and verse of other “right on” economists to support their views against Krugman.
This is too funny!

Posted by: Down South | May 14 2025 6:54 utc | 139

Can someone explain to me in a very clear way why China would agree to this *instead of* letting the American economy suffer irreparable damage??

Posted by: Perplexed | May 13 2025 16:58 utc | 7
For now there is no other market capable of replacing the US market. On top of that other countries were putting measures in place to prevent China from dumping their surplus (meant for the US) goods into theirs leading to a cascading effect.
While the fake leftists would no doubt be happy to let hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers suffer (loss of jobs) to see the US suffer irreparable damage the Chinese themselves weren’t.

Posted by: Down South | May 14 2025 7:01 utc | 140

B never engages in any kind of dialogue. He won’t defend his premises, explain his rationale, or even correct basic errors

Attributed to Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 2:59 utc | 129
Lots of posts in a short time. Roger composes thoughtful contributions, this must be an imposter trying to use the credibility of a respected commenter to cast doubt on our host and community.
I call bullshit.

Posted by: jonku | May 14 2025 7:03 utc | 141

For now there is no other market capable of replacing the US market.
Posted by: Down South | May 14 2025 7:01 utc | 141

The mercantilism ship sunk with the invention of the printing press.

Posted by: too scents | May 14 2025 7:11 utc | 142

I post as “Roger Boyd” these days, with the link to my substack in the handle. Just so there is no confusion with the other Roger, who seems to have been quite busy recently.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | May 14 2025 7:15 utc | 143

Posted by: Down South | May 14 2025 6:54 utc | 140
I know sometimes it is hard to tell them apart as often they just use different phrasing of the same bullshit theory, but Krugman is of the classical liberal school by education and practice even if DSGE was championed by many neoliberals.

Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 7:54 utc | 144

“MBS pledged today to invest a $ trillion in the United States… plus he signed up to buy tons of US weapons.”
So…
a) What else could they do with the $’s they received from oil now held as treasuries at the FED ? ( part of the national debt )
b) Will all this spending be inflationary ?
Why are the ” sound money ” idiots not screaming Zimbabwe or Weimar like they do when a government invests a $ trillion dollars into the economy.
c) Where did MBS get the $’s from in the first place ?
Take a note out of your pocket and read both sides of it.
The example of charity is exactly the same with the BBC’s children in need day. As every idiot in the UK gives Pugsy Bear some money to spend on Children in need.
So…
1. Will all the money donated to Pugsy Bear by the brainwashed be inflationary when it is spent on children in need.
Why are the ” sound money ” idiots not screaming Zimbabwe or Weimar like they do when a government invests into the economy.
2. Where did the brainwashed get the money from in the first place ? They then donated to Pugsy Bear.
Take a note out of your pocket and read both sides of it.
As you can see clearly America doesn’t need MBS and children in need don’t need Pugsy bear and charity.
What they do need is an informed electorate who understand money. That refuse to allow their political class to get away with bullshit propaganda around money.
The ideological idiots who claim when Government invests it is inflationary and yet when MBS and Pugsy bear invests it isn’t. Is the true problem in the world today.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 8:33 utc | 145

LOL, but you missed out one; Col. Sanders very own secret recipe for Kentucky Chlorinated Chicken…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | May 13 2025 20:04 utc | 62
And I thought KFC in the EU and anywhere else that bans chlorine-washed chicken would reformulate its food to obey local laws…

Posted by: joey_n | May 14 2025 8:33 utc | 146

Saudi Arabia:
1. Sells stuff to the US and receives $’s.
2. Their reserve account at the FED starts filling up with $’s
3. The US received what they were selling.
What options do Saudi Arabia now have ?
a) The $’s can sit in their reserve account at the FED.
b) They can swap those $’s for US treasuries and now store them in their treasury account at the FED.
c) They can buy US goods and services.
(invest a $ trillion in the United States… plus he signed up to buy tons of US weapons.)
d) Exchange those $’s for another currency
( Exchange some of those $’s for their own currency)
However, what is VERY IMPORTANT to remember is when they choose option d).
$’s don’t fly out of America
To do this
$————> £’s
You need others wanting to do this
$<----------- £'s The $'s don't move they stay at the FED. All that changes is the name on the account that now holds them. These people now have the same options the Saudis had. That's it that's the choices the Saudi's have. Here: https://new-wayland.com/blog/capital-flight/
Trumpian Phoneyfart 3 card monte all the ” sound money ” lunatics and their fixed exchange rate conversion belief system.
A fanfare of propaganda of the obvious that has always happened with the petro $ treasury scam.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 8:51 utc | 147

Too Scents,
Question; as a thought exercise:
Suppose Trump does in fact achieve a “mere” $1 trillion deficit for FY2026, do you think the bond market will rejoice ?
Back of the envelope figuring:
$2 trillion baseline deficit
Versus
$200 billion DOGE efficiency
$150 billion programs slash and burn
$600 billion tariff revenues
===========
$1 trillion deficit FY2026

Posted by: Exile | May 14 2025 9:00 utc | 148

If there are only 10 spoons left in the world and there is nobody able to make any spoons. It It will take 7 years to train people up to make spoons.
What’s the difference between the government buying the spoons, MBS buying the spoons and Pugsy bear buying the spoons?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 9:03 utc | 149

Back of the envelope figuring:
$2 trillion private sector surplus ( households and businesses)
$200 billion DOGE efficiency
$150 billion programs slash and burn
$600 billion tariff revenues
===========
$1 trillion private sector surplus by 2026 ( households and businesses)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Capitalism is run on ” Sales “.
So you have just halved the private sector surplus that is used to generate those ” Sales “.
Now people have to run to the banks instead and load themselves up with private sector debt to achieve the same level of sales.
It is quite simply staggering the hatred people have for people who save their money. After all that’s all the deficit is a measure of how much people save in cash.
Why are ideological buffoons always coming after people’s savings? Trying to force people into the arms of the banks.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That’s not the only insanity going on…..
Here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nLLrX-TiCU8

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 9:20 utc | 150

Suppose Trump does in fact achieve a “mere” $1 trillion deficit for FY2026, do you think the bond market will rejoice ?
Posted by: Exile | May 14 2025 9:00 utc | 149

Prices are not production.

Posted by: too scents | May 14 2025 9:29 utc | 151

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 9:20 utc | 151
Your model is rather basic and does not properly describe the effects of endogenous bank money. While they do not wind up as aggregate savings they do wind up as sectoral savings with a reduction in total savings. IE private money creators actually suck money out of the system over time. No government deficit will eventually transfer all wealth to creditors at the same time it destroys the mechanisms that create wealth in the first place.

Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 9:42 utc | 152

The USA has never had a gold standard. It did use a silver standard at various times when silver certificates were used as currency but no gold certificate was ever issued for general use.
Posted by: Badjoke | May 13 2025 19:34 utc | 55

At the Bretton Woods Conference in 1944 the USA made a firm commitment that US dollars were a “gold convertible currency” at the unchanging exchange rate of $35 per ounce. We all know they defaulted on this promise … but at least in theory the same promise stands today, as much as it has never formally been revoked and (har har) Nixon declared that closing the gold window was “temporary”. I would not suggest anyone attempt to claim on this … in practice your odds are not good.
In the IMF articles of agreement, they describe a “special drawing right” which is defined as 0.888671 grams of fine gold … and that remains in the wording to this day. Not sure why they keep it, since no one uses special drawing rights.
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/aa/
So yeah … the USA did run a gold standard after WWII but they couldn’t maintain it because the urge to spend money on the Vietnam War was too strong. And yes the USA did default on said gold standard.
Silver of course, was the much older standard and it worked well during the early days and establishment of the US as a world power. That’s a long story! Too much to go into.

Posted by: Tel | May 14 2025 9:46 utc | 153

eventually transfer all wealth to creditors
Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 9:42 utc | 153

Wealth? Like beauty it is in the eye of the beholder.
“Use Value” is not the same thing as “Exchange Value”.
The current exercise of tokenizing the economy has gone badly askew. In favor of the tokenizers, obviously.

Posted by: too scents | May 14 2025 9:49 utc | 154

Well worth a read: China’s official statement on the recent tariff agreement with the U.S.
https://www.mofcom.gov.cn/xwfb/xwfyrth/art/2025/art_8e2fab61345b4978bf0190e2dc4ccbb1.html
One of the most important takeaways, beyond the headline reduction of tariffs to 10%, is the reaffirmation by both sides of the broader importance of their economic relationship. As the statement puts it:
“Both sides recognize the importance of bilateral economic and trade relations to the two countries and the global economy, recognize the importance of sustainable, long-term and mutually beneficial bilateral economic and trade relations, and continue to advance relevant work in the spirit of mutual openness, continuous communication, cooperation and mutual respect.”
That, arguably, is the real headline. Trump’s tariff campaign represented the peak of Washington’s decoupling fantasy. This reversal signals a quiet but significant admission that such a path is ultimately unsustainable.
To borrow the playing-card metaphor favored by Trump and his team: he went all in on extreme tariffs. But when China called the bluff, he was forced to fold. The gamble failed, and the economic reality prevailed.
In the end, it’s now clearer than ever: the U.S. simply doesn’t hold the cards to sever ties with China. However aggressively they try to play it, the outcome points to just one viable path forward—cooperation grounded in mutual respect. But there is no way in hell this is the path Trump and his team are going to follow.
Well… until, of course, they’re willing to escalate things into open warfare.

Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 9:55 utc | 155

Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 9:42 utc | 153
Complete nonsense.
A government deficit isn’t designed to transfer all the wealth to creditors at the same time. It is quite simply an ex post accounting statement. A,subtraction of 2 numbers What was spent and What was collected.
What actually happens is the deficit becomes too small to support the credit structure of the economy. Exactly because. ..
“While they do not wind up as aggregate savings they do wind up as sectoral savings with a reduction in total savings. IE private money creators actually suck money out of the system over time.”
How many more 2007 do you want to see. History is littered with Minsky moments. Because deficits became too small to support the private sector credit structures of the economy.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 9:56 utc | 156

Posted by: Tel | May 14 2025 9:46 utc | 154
There is a difference between the gold window that was used for de facto conversion and the silver certificates that were de jure convertible. Both legally and functionally when it came to the banking sector. Silver certificates were not the norm in the 19th century either with the currency being fiat with silver being pegged to the dollar rather than the other way around. Free coinage was never the norm.

Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 9:59 utc | 157

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 9:56 utc | 157
You completely reversed what I wrote.
I stated that without government deficits to provide money to the system bank originated moneys function will transfer the wealth to creditors. Without governments running deficits non creditors will be stripped of assets.

Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 10:06 utc | 158

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 9:56 utc | 157
That was the problem with the ‘USA CARES’ act. It provided for private money creation many times the actual outlays of the government itself. The government should have spent more directly and not had the fed promote private credit growth.

Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 10:12 utc | 159

Well… until, of course, they’re willing to escalate things into open warfare.
Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 9:55 utc | 156

Or for 90 days. Whichever comes first.

Posted by: too scents | May 14 2025 10:12 utc | 160

Prices are not production.
Posted by: too scents
============
No lo capito.

Posted by: Exile | May 14 2025 10:14 utc | 161

Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 10:06 utc | 159
Which is what I have been saying on here for 5 years. On the saker before that. It’s not simplistic it is very accurate.
Just because I don’t go into Endogenous bank money in detail to explain why. Doesn’t mean it’s simplistic I understand it fully .
Here:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G7-j3kDvB04

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 10:18 utc | 162

No lo capito.
Posted by: Exile | May 14 2025 10:14 utc | 162

A quite long (1h53) modern discussion about an old theoretical framework:
The Contradiction Between Use-Value and Exchange-Value ==> https://youtu.be/QYwTGqbtzrY?t=444

Posted by: too scents | May 14 2025 10:34 utc | 163

Posted by: Silent Waves | May 14 2025 3:05 utc | 131
Reversing so quickly is just giving away all your leverage, not only with China but to all the other countries they’re having talks with.
<= Maybe it wasn't china that forced a default on the tariff leverage, it was Wall Street.. The Chinese are heavily invested in Wall Street.

Posted by: snake | May 14 2025 10:52 utc | 164

Lots of posts in a short time. I call bullshit.
I do have better things to do, but illogical thoughtless comments like this really tickle my fancy.
1. Momentum: Sometimes when you’re on a roll, thoughts come fast. It’s easier to keep the flow going than to hold back and risk forgetting half your points.
2. Catching up: Maybe they were offline for a while and are now replying to a backlog of comments, questions, or discussions.
3. Real-time (or even delayed) conversation: Forums aren’t always slow-moving. When threads get active, replying in real time can feel like participating in a group chat or debate.
4. Clarifying points: A person might make a comment, then realize they could’ve said it better, so they follow up to explain or refine the thought. It’s called thinking out loud (digitally).
5. Responding to multiple users: Rather than cramming ten replies into one giant block, breaking it up keeps things clearer and more readable for everyone.
6. Different topics: The person might be engaging across several threads or sub-discussions — it just looks like a burst when viewed all at once.
7. Forum rhythm: On some days, the energy’s right. People post more. Maybe there’s new news, a big event, or just a lively vibe worth riding.
8. Avoiding edits: Rather than constantly editing one long post, it’s cleaner and less disruptive to post new thoughts as they come.
9. Testing ideas: Some people post short, fast comments to test reactions or develop an argument gradually. It’s a kind of informal workshop.
10. Expressive style: Everyone has a style. Some are slow and methodical. Others rapid-fire with brief comments. Both are valid, just different.
11. Genuine engagement: When someone’s invested in the topic, they naturally engage more — not to dominate, but because they care.
12. Because they can: It’s a public forum. There are no strict quotas on comment frequency. If it doesn’t spam, offend, or derail, it’s just part of the discourse.
13. Good time management: They prepare offline a number of thoughts, issues or short comments, then depending on what else is topical in the moment they drop their nuggets for others consumption in a short period of time. Then log off to live their life as they see fit.
14. Not caring in the least what wild theories for their behaviour might be conjured up by small minded people.
So if anyone’s bothered by it, they might want to check their own post history — chances are, they’ve done the same during a lively moment. No need for pearl-clutching. It’s just people talking.

Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 11:07 utc | 165

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 10:18 utc | 163
I always like to point out that ‘sound money’ is a scam by rentiers and banksters to rip people off as most people have an aversion to those sorts of individuals.
The ultimate fraud being ‘crypto’. Especially bitcoin.

Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 11:15 utc | 166

$600 billion tariff revenues
The way I’m looking at the progress, and my understanding of the plan they are trying to implement, there’s no chance Trump team will raise anything close to that kind of money from Tariffs in FY 2026. Something is going to have to give.
Open ended debt ceiling for one. It’s already floated by Bessant, they’re asking Congress to drop the regular reviews. It’s getting too embarrassing and gets too much negative press every time they have raise the ceiling.
Reminder heads up likely Trump outburst overreaction temper tantrum plus market disruption dead ahead. You cannot control the uncontrollable but they install them anyway.

Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 11:22 utc | 167

Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 11:22 utc | 167
The term ‘greenback’ came about as an insult towards the Lincon administration canceling the silver window and the sales of treasuries to match the budget deficits. It became a symbol of strength and pride because the union economy doubled in size in 4 years because of those policies. Something Milton Freedman ignored in his BS thesis that you seem to take as reality.

Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 11:32 utc | 168

There is a difference between the gold window that was used for de facto conversion and the silver certificates that were de jure convertible.
Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 9:59 utc | 158

The difference is that American citizens were not allowed to partake in the exchange of Gold at a fixed price of $35 per ounce … but Bretton Woods was never intended for domestic consumption … the whole purpose was to convince foreigners that the USD was “Good as Gold” and if anyone ever wonders how the USD became the global reserve currency … it is specifically because Washington made a very solemnly insincere promise to keep money printing to a minimum and always back their paper with real metal.
Anyone saying that somehow massive dumping of USD into world markets is a requirement of a reserve currency … that person is full of it. During the 1950’s and 1960’s the USA was happily producing a surplus, although a small surplus compared to the deficit when things went off the rails later on.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOPBCA
That’s the era when the USD established itself as global currency … NOT by running trade deficits.

Posted by: Tel | May 14 2025 11:49 utc | 169

LOL. B, you are an excellent war analyst but are completely blinkered on this topic.
Tariffs are a red herring. What could he possibly trying to achieve by using them as a prompt?
Reconsider your sclerotic beliefs in economics, abandon your treasured market ideology and ask yourself, what he hell is he actually up to?

Posted by: whocanibenow | May 14 2025 11:51 utc | 170

“$600 billion tariff revenues
The way I’m looking at the progress, and my understanding of the plan they are trying to implement, there’s no chance Trump team will raise anything close to that kind of money from Tariffs in FY 2026. Something is going to have to give.”
Posted by: Roger | May 14 2025 11:22 utc | 167
Of course they are not revenues to fund the government. Taxes un print money. It is never seen again. For inflation purposes.
What’s the issue Phoneyfart is not seeing when he tries to replace a certain type of tax with a tariff ?
To answer that you have to start with the base case – what are taxes really for ?
https://new-wayland.com/blog/the-limits-of-taxation/
Using PAYE if you ‘fire up the printing press’, you automatically ‘fire up the shredding machine’ to the same extent.
However, if you replace PAYE with tariffs this is not the case and it is not as effective to move both skills and real resources around where you need them.
Some say a land value tax to replace PAYE but again is that more or less efficient than PAYE.
PAYE is baked in and very effective has things heat up and people earn more spending power is automatically stripped away. It is a very good stabilisation mechanism.
Very good at moving skills and real resources around where they are needed.
A sales tax will inhibit transactions, as will an income tax. … Furthermore, transaction taxes offer large rewards for successful evasion, and therefore require powerful enforcement agencies and severe penalties. They also result in massive legal efforts to transact without being subject to the taxes as defined by the law. Add to this the cost of all of the record keeping necessary for compliance. All of these are real economic costs of transaction taxes.
A real estate tax is an interesting alternative. It is much easier to enforce, provides a more stable demand for government spending, and does not discourage transactions. It can be made progressive, if the democracy desires.
Ideally, it is best if tax revenue moves countercyclically, increasing in an expansion and falling in a recession. That helps to make the government’s net contribution to the economy countercyclical, which helps to stabilise aggregate demand. In this case the fiscal outcome operates as an automatic stabiliser.
We can think of the effect of imposing taxes as creating unemployed resources (including labour). Government spending then puts those resources to use in the public sphere. It would make no sense for government to impose taxes, causing unemployment, except to the extent that it needs to release resources from private use so that they can be employed in the public sector.
Our of all the choices available. I’m not sure a tariff is the most effecient.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 12:08 utc | 171

The Contradiction Between Use-Value and Exchange-Value ==> https://youtu.be/QYwTGqbtzrY?t=444
Posted by: too scents
============
Whoa like dude, only got 10 minutes into, like, the video and then needed to do a few major bong hits. Its been like decades since I heard telos used in a conversation. Let’s trip at the next Dead concert. Totally.
Rock on’

Posted by: Exile | May 14 2025 12:19 utc | 172

Private healthcare in the UK is a perfect example. It is only there so rich people can jump the Q.
Tax it at 5000% so it goes bankrupt and all the skills and real resources are absorbed back into the NHS.
There’s simply no need for competition in healthcare. When it is free at the point of entry.
No amount of competition will make healthcare free. Only a public healthcare service makes it free as taxes don’t fund the government.
That’s just one example.
If you move your tax base to imports instead of being able to tax private healthcare directly. It becomes less efficient.
Maybe this is the whole reason behind the tariffs. So that Oligarchs and rent seekers who privatised the public sector can continue to rent seek for ebternity. As taxes are removed from them directly and put on others.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 12:20 utc | 173

whocanibenow@170…..tariffs, it’s all smoke and mirror distraction ….some of the smokiest days are right here, left and right fools, thinks, they’s so cool…..when in reality, they don’t know fuck all. Cue; the chest thumping…..
Cheers M
…..it’s rumoured China and the US have settled on bilateral tariffs of 10%……rumoured…. definitely the final death throws of the west for sure….any one know a good Mariachi band?

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 14 2025 12:22 utc | 174

I stated that without government deficits to provide money to the system bank originated moneys function will transfer the wealth to creditors. Without governments running deficits non creditors will be stripped of assets.
Posted by: Badjoke | May 14 2025 10:06 utc | 159

There’s a lot of weirdness in that statement but may I suggest the Mystery of Banking.
https://mises.org/library/book/mystery-banking
You can download for free, it’s short and to the point, and you won’t be wasting your time.
Now let me add that banks create credit, not money … the distinction being that money is a final settlement of exchange while credit is a temporary, partial settlement of exchange … however credit often feels like money and may drive up prices in a similar manner to what money would do. Consider credit cards … you don’t actually have the money, but you can go shopping and buy what you like on credit just as if you did have the money. Not finalised … because you still need to pay the debt plus interest on that flat screen TV and new phone you never needed in the first place.
When governments demand more money printing, they assist the debtor at the expense of the creditor … because inflation drives up prices but it also has an effect of somewhat devaluing existing debt. Here’s a typical example … you buy a house, using a mortgage so you have this physical asset (house and land) but you have this financial instrument putting you into debt.
Bigger government deficits (all else being equal) will make your house more valuable in nominal terms, and relatively speaking your debt is not as bad. However, bank credit expansion also makes your house more valuable since it makes it much easier for you to sell to someone else who also gets a mortgage. Credit feels a lot like money in this situation. The house and land are same … but the purchasing power of the currency unit is lower.
I should also point out that banks as such are not the final creditor … they are an intermediary for people who saved money and most human beings are both debtors and creditors depending on where they are in life. Thus, on the whole the creditor class are mostly merely older versions of themselves as the debtor class (not in all cases) … buying a house is a real world saving if you can manage to pay back the debt. Middle aged people thinking about retirement are looking for investment opportunities and want to get rid of excess money … putting it away for the future when they are old and need the income back again. There isn’t either a permanent debtor or creditor class … it’s a stage of life thing.
Now when this goes wrong is when you have a credit crunch (i.e. debt deflation) and debtors get too far out over their skis and realize they borrowed what they can’t pay back. The contracting credit has the opposite effect (prices go down) and you get forced sales. People really do get stripped of their assets … because they never really had the money to buy those assets in the first place.
Governments can use force to redistribute away from the people who played the game slightly better, to the people who didn’t get it right (you get Paul’s vote in return for robbing Peter). Governments could also change the rules to put some constraints on credit expansion … but there’s no votes in that and worse, it might end up imposing constraints on government spending too … so we know that won’t happen.
But wait … those players really, really good at the game might figure out ahead of time what’s going to happen when weak people face hard choices … and perhaps these players actually have the moxy to make a bet that they can run an entire enterprise based on the belief that riding the credit expansion goes forever … for the very reason that government is the biggest creditor and must therefore always bail out the credit system as a whole … by gum there’s a guy known as “Rich Dad” who has done exactly this. He has heaps of assets and used massive debt leverage to get there. For many decades he dared the credit crunch to strip his assets and every single time he landed on his feet … again!

Posted by: Tel | May 14 2025 12:52 utc | 175

Fortuna | May 14 2025 12:32 utc | 175
*** AMERICA MUST BECOME INDEPENDENT OF CHINA. A country that does human organ trafficking AND MAKES MOST OF THEIR GOODS FROM CHILD SLAVE LABOR.***
It is sad that China considers it necessary to trade with such a country.
*** COVID REALLY EXPOSED OUR DEPENDENCE ON CHINA, WE CAN’T ALLOW THAT TO CONTINUE.***
Only having one country to (falsely) blame for US bio-weapons releases could become suspiciously repetitive.

Posted by: Cynic | May 14 2025 12:56 utc | 176

They have a vested interest in developing the “free market” myth where we are all, essentially, free traders and own-producers at heart who agree (aided by market forces) to specialise into labour suppliers or capital providers.
The myth continues that we are all free traders – everything is voluntary and all exchanges are mediated by market prices which deliver equalised use values to each exchanger to be enjoyed upon completion of the same.
The free market – everything can be understood at the exchange level – view falls in a hole when we focus on the labour market. After all, workers do not sell labour – they rather sell labour power (the capacity to work). That immediately invokes a managerial imperative. Why?
Answer: because the use-value of the labour power is enjoyed (extracted) within the actual exchange (that is, while the workers are still at work). The use-value – the source of profit – is uncertain and a control function is indicated.
Bosses have to control the realisation of that use value as production in an environment where the majority of workers would rather not be there. That is a very different dynamic environment to one where we go into a shop and buy a trinket to be enjoyed later.
Another key difference between at trinket you buy and labour is that the trinket can demand its price and doesn’t care of you walk away.
A worker doesn’t have that power and faces starvation or some other form of deprivation if they refuse a wage that’s at least enough to feed them.
It’s sad that you can see acknowledgement of this, not only from more liberal economists, but also from conservative luminaries such as Friedman and Hayek, yet the smug superiority that Objectivism offers seems to have drowned out any acknowledgement of that, fact, even from those that otherwise claim to not subscribe to it.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 14 2025 13:01 utc | 177

Paul Krugman is a broken clock. Just because a broken clock gets the time right twice a day, no one should look to it to tell the time.

Posted by: Elial | May 14 2025 13:01 utc | 178

But wait … those players really, really good at the game might figure out ahead of time what’s going to happen when weak people face hard choices
Posted by: Tel | May 14 2025 12:52 utc | 176

Weak Schmeak!
The fundamental problem is that credit exceeds surplus. The more that credit exceeds surplus the more risk creditors have to future uncertainties as no counterparty can access a surplus that does not exist.
That China has a surplus while the USA does not is exactly why the Uncertainty Of Future Tariffs Continues To Hamstring the USA’s Economy

Posted by: too scents | May 14 2025 13:09 utc | 179

@ Elial | May 14 2025 13:01 utc | 179
Best Krugman comment on the thread. Myself, I have no problem with b’s citing him, although b should’ve prefaced the quote with something like “Even Krugman gets it right for once”.

Posted by: malenkov | May 14 2025 13:12 utc | 180

China was and is in a much better position to ward off Trump’s idiotic tariff attack than B seems to recognize here. Its exports to the US reportedly amount to 3% of the China’s total yet are critical for both US consumers and our major (corporate) marketers. In that situation, its stand on the 90-day compromise amounts to magnanimous concern that the US consumer should not fail to recognize. It also constitutes yet another demonstration of the superiority of socialist economics.

Posted by: Lonl | May 14 2025 13:50 utc | 181

cf also: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202505/1334050.shtml

Posted by: Lonl | May 14 2025 13:55 utc | 182

Have anyone thought of this?
“A good and healthy aristocracy must acquiesce, with a good conscience, in the sacrifice of legions of individuals, who, for its benefit, must be reduced to slaves and tools. The masses have no right to exist on their own account: their sole excuse for living lies in their usefulness as a sort of superstructure or scaffolding, upon which a more select race of beings may be elevated.
—Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Section 258”

Posted by: ostrr | May 14 2025 14:10 utc | 183

ostrr | May 14 2025 14:10 utc | 186 ….
A good aristocracy is one that is healthily dead.

Posted by: Cynic | May 14 2025 14:14 utc | 184

Posted by: Cynic | May 14 2025 14:14 utc | 187
Just change the name aristocracy to anything you like, such as democracy, fascism etc… 😉

Posted by: ostrr | May 14 2025 14:29 utc | 185

Uncertainties for future tariffs, as well as existing ones, is exactly the point.
These are just some of the effects necessary to lay the foundation for reindustrialization.
Put another way: in the 1990s and 2000s – American manufacturers had the “uncertainty” of foreign competition.
This was both multinational and foreign.
Now the multinational and foreign outfits that drove American manufacturers out of business, have a contravening uncertainty. Wah wah.
And so while it would be nice(?) if the US could fiat entire economic sectors into being like China and the CPC, the reality is that this is not clearly necessary for a nation that still has the capital and the skilled people (albeit long in the tooth) to reindustrialize given a change in economic circumstances.
Russia proved this conclusively with its post SMO industrial boom,
So people complaining about tariff this and uncertainty that are missing the point.
Nobody in the US government outright said that it would be best for manufacturing in the US to go the way of the Dodo, or the Department of Defense.
But their actions, and lack of actions, did the talking for them.
I just listened to an analysis of the latest polls from the Public Polling national survey.
As expected, the PMCs continue to hate Trump. A hair more than before, but no significant change either way.
What I wanted to hear was how the blue collar and working class were viewing things.
And their view is: they expect things to get worse, but believe that the steps being taken now will make the future better for them.
As a consequence, Trump’s approval is effectively unchanged in those groupings; Hispanics have a slight drop but that’s it.
Overall, Trump’s approval changes are at the high end of the 0.5% to 2.0% range in which approval swings with every poll by the PP survey. To put this in perspective: Biden’s approval swings were in the 3% to 5% swing range.

Posted by: c1ue | May 14 2025 14:38 utc | 186

@ NoOneYouKnowNow | May 13 2025 18:07 utc | 30

When I was a kid in the mid-70s, my father invited a bigwig from Eastman Kodak to dinner.

So, during the so-called Gerald Ford administration?

I used to think the problem was just the endless greed of the corporatocracy. Now I’m inclined to think the US, like the rest of the “Western” nations, are being dismantled.

Ah, from your lips to Maurice Strong’s ears!

Posted by: maja | May 14 2025 14:42 utc | 187

c1ue @189: “Russia proved this conclusively with its post SMO industrial boom,”
There are some important differences. Russia still had decaying remnants of massive Soviet state industries to bootstrap their economic renaissance. Sure, Putin would rather have seen the private sector take the glory and the cream of the growth, but he’s a pragmatist and did what was necessary. You cannot dictate investment to the private sector like you can to SOEs. You can only set up “incentives” for private investment.
Which leads us to the other important difference between Russia’s economic boom and America’s ongoing bust: Russian incentives for domestic investment from private investors were externally applied by sanctions, not self-inflicted with tariffs. Western investors have alternate places to put their wealth other than new manufacturing in the US, and many of those alternatives yield a better and more secure return. Until one can come up with a way to guarantee a premium return on their investments by investing in real domestic economic activity, western investors will just continue to play paper games.
Trump’s efforts to create those incentives are certainly impressive and commendable, but the disciplining of investors cannot work for the US the way it did for Russia.

Posted by: William Gruff | May 14 2025 17:05 utc | 188

There are over half a million open manufacturing jobs right now.
Posted by: Menz | May 13 2025 23:54 utc | 106
At what wages? I could likewise say my garage has a Ferrari shortage.

Posted by: Passerby | May 14 2025 17:48 utc | 189

At what wages? I could likewise say my garage has a Ferrari shortage.
Posted by: Passerby | May 14 2025 17:48 utc | 192
Compared to 1968?
Lost 1/3 to 2/3 of purchase power for serious things
Remember a blue collar worker could raise a family in his house

Posted by: Newbie | May 14 2025 17:56 utc | 190

@Posted by: Passerby | May 14 2025 17:48 utc | 192
Thankyou for a moment of sanity in the face of such utter BS. In Canada we import temporary workers/slaves because of the ridiculously low wages on offer creates a “labour shortage”. Same with so many other occupations that have been shitified and offered at low wages. Universities do the same with all the massively underpaid H1B Visa post-docs. The endless supply of cheap imported labour makes corporations lazy and they invest much less in productivity, and instead pay out more than their profits in dividends and buy backs. In manufacturing, the next generation of workers were produced through such things as apprenticeships but now corporations don’t want to pay for the training of their workforce.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | May 14 2025 17:57 utc | 191

Thankyou for a moment of sanity in the face of such utter BS. In Canada we import temporary workers/slaves because of the ridiculously low wages on offer creates a “labour shortage”. Same with so many other occupations that have been shitified and offered at low wages. Universities do the same with all the massively underpaid H1B Visa post-docs. The endless supply of cheap imported labour makes corporations lazy and they invest much less in productivity, and instead pay out more than their profits in dividends and buy backs. In manufacturing, the next generation of workers were produced through such things as apprenticeships but now corporations don’t want to pay for the training of their workforce.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | May 14 2025 17:57 utc | 194
Last 30-50 years profits were achieved by not paying western labor replacement cost…
People went along by not having children.
No money, no clowns… never forget to pay the clowns

Posted by: Newbie | May 14 2025 18:17 utc | 192

Posted by: Roger Boyd | May 14 2025 17:57 utc | 194
—-
Indeed. I am Canadian.
Wages for my degree required engineering position have been stagnant or falling for 20 years. Offers now are 10-15% LESS pay than the 2007 position I took. But inflation has at least doubled costs since then, 2-3X for housing alone.
40+ years of experience and offers are a joke.
I wonder how many have done the same as me and simply refused to take low pay? I get 2-3 offers a month. Refuse them all as the pay is insulting. (joy of being debt free)
Funny thing is I often see the same positions come up every six months or so. They obviously hire someone willing to take low pay, try to integrate them for half a year, give up an hire a new (low buck) person for another six months. Rinse and repeat. Actual costs because of turnover probably twice what it would cost to hire a competent at higher pay.
I saw this coming 25+ years ago as the engineering departments started to have far higher ‘imported worker’ ratios. Those I know still in the cube farm have horror stories about these replacement workers. The biggest problem being management being scared of disciplining these people as they immediately claim ‘discrimination’ and run to HR if confronted with their mistakes. Few managers dare promote a natural born citizen, as again, ‘discrimination’ will be claimed. So they promote the import. The pissed off NBC staff (like me), eventually quit, stop caring or are pushed out, ’cause diversity.
Company I left had gone this route. Profitable and successful for decades, run into the ground in less than two years after promoting an import to a position where they could do real damage. I get a good laugh about it as I had gone to the owners to explain the mistake they were making. Laid out the future problems that were coming near exactly. My concerns were dismissed condescendingly, me not being management. I left before the implosion.
Call me Cassandra.

Posted by: saner | May 14 2025 19:29 utc | 193

@Posted by: saner | May 14 2025 19:29 utc | 196
Yep, then add the offshoring of so many technical and operations jobs. In the big Canadian bank that I worked in this was huge, with whole departments of very skilled developers being replaced with Indians. Plus the very low-paid “temporary” workers that the outsourcer was allowed to bring in to do some of the project management, high level analysis and coordination work. Those people were worked liked dogs while in Canada, but they were all happy as they could go home and buy a new house with what they earned on assignment in Canada. On the operations side they got clever always to have Canadians in customer fronting roles, with the outsourcing hidden away from the customers.
The only well paying jobs in Canada seem to be in the professions (lawyers, doctors, vets, dentists) and executive management. And many of professions go to the US for better pay.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | May 14 2025 20:54 utc | 194

Whether 145% or 10%, tariff uncertainty is enough to stop U.S. gold and silver imports, distort the metals market at all levels – Experts
(Kitco News) – Gold prices have pulled back since the United States and China announced the lowering of trade tariffs for 90 days amid ongoing negotiations. But whether tariffs today are 145%, 30%, or 10%, the uncertainty gripping U.S. trade continues to make meaningful importing activities impossible. And despite early indications that precious metals would be exempt from Trump’s tariffs, trade activity in the sector is far from normal.
Josh Phair is the CEO of Scottsdale Mint. He said that while the headline may be ‘Gold and Silver Imports are Tariff-Free’, the reality is not nearly so simple.
“They said that bullion is exempted,” Phair told Kitco News. “But if we start looking at a lot of the tariff codes, everyone’s going to need to know exactly what is considered bullion, because in our industry we call coins bullion, like from Perth Mint, for example, but that actually is legal tender. It’s a monetary bullion product.”
Phair said it’s not a straightforward process to determine whether something is tariffed or not, especially when it fits into two or more categories.
“It looks like we’ve got some clarity on a piece of it, but a lot of people are waiting to know everything,” he said. “What nobody wants is to bring in a $10 million shipment of something and get slapped with $1 million-plus in taxes. It feels like the whole world is waiting for clarity.”
Phair, who works with both large and small companies, said the uncertainty is causing importers to sit on their hands. “Unfortunately, when you’re sitting on your hands, there’s no business happening,” he said. In our industry, if you look around, there’s a lot of things missing. Certain British product got held up and hasn’t been imported, certain things that we would normally have in our market on the coin side for retail.”
And as if the different countries of origin and different categories of products weren’t challenging enough, different precious metals are not treated the same either.
Phair said that while gold and silver have the most clarity, uncertainty remains for the other metals. “It looks fairly positive for platinum and palladium, but what about the other minerals? They provided a critical minerals list, but it was not all-encompassing,” he said. “So the question is, does that get broadened? Does that get tightened? There’s a little bit of disarray still to this.”
Phair said that a number of precious metals organizations are actively seeking clarity from the U.S. government on these gray areas and omissions.
“The multinational refineries and companies, they’re going to seek a legal opinion letter from [U.S. Customs and Border Protection] because they just don’t want to get hit,” he said. “These guys are doing billions of dollars in and out. [Customs] might say ‘That actually goes in that category, and that’s actually 19%, not 10%.”
“In precious metals we’re working off of sometimes sub-1% spreads, a tiny spread, so you would get destroyed.”
Phair said there’s plenty of precedent for these kinds of preemptive rulings, but they were costly and time-consuming even before Trump’s tariffs.
“I’ve done this,” he said. “I’ve actually gone to U.S. Customs with a law firm, and it took us eight months to get a ruling. This was in normal times, that was seven years ago now.”
Another challenge precious metals importers face is the convoluted and seemingly arbitrary criteria governing the products, which go far beyond the bullion itself.
“Pre-Trump here, if you brought in a gold blank that is in the shape of a rectangle, it was tariff-free,” Phair said. “If you brought a circle blank in the shape of a coin, with nothing on it, it was tariffed either 4% or 7% on gold. It was about the shape. So we got a legal opinion letter that if we brought in a coin, but we’re using it to strike a legal tender coin for another third-party country, we got an exemption for that, but we had to go seek an opinion from customs.”
“We actually did that, because nobody wants to bring in millions and millions of dollars, and then later they say, ‘Oops, you owe us, and let’s go back three years.’ Nobody wants to do that.”
Thankfully, not all of the preexisting U.S. trade frameworks have been abandoned, so importers can prioritize sources with relatively lower uncertainty. “Right this minute, I think people are feeling a lot more comfortable between Canada and Mexico, under the USMCA than they are the European stuff,” Phair said.
“I feel more confident today than I did two weeks ago,” he added. “But I’m also smart enough to know that our governments don’t always act in a rational way. So we definitely are seeking clarity.”
Jeff Christian is Managing Partner of CPM Group. He also believes that the fundamental problem isn’t how high or low the tariffs are, but how the numbers are being calculated, and how they keep changing.
“When it comes to tariffs and what tariffs mean for precious metals, the first thing you have to say is [Trump] is being totally arbitrary and capricious,” Christian told Kitco News. “He’s changing his view two, three times a day. He’s throwing things in, and he is taking things out. So you really can’t say definitively what the tariffs will apply to, or if there even will be tariffs.”
He said the tariffs on specific metals or products remain unclear. “Are tariffs being applied to gold, silver, platinum, palladium? It changes from day to day, hour to hour, but it looks as if they will be exempt,” he said. “Who knows?
“I think that there’s a tremendous amount of uncertainty, and there was a lot of gold and silver that was brought into the United States in recent months in advance of tariffs being imposed, on the risk or fear that sanctions would apply to precious metals,” Christian said. “Right now, the people I talk to in the precious metals markets talk about the excess supply and the overhang in the New York market. There’s metal leaving New York, going back to London and Switzerland, and other places.”
“There’s plenty of precious metals within the United States, so that if investors want to buy precious metals, it’s there, and premiums are relatively low.”
But what Christian believes is far more important is the effect that tariffs will have on the overall economies of the United States and other countries.
“The tariffs are very destructive of economic activity,” he said. “If it’s a 20% or a 25% duty, it’s a tax. You’re taking that away from the producer, and you’re taking it away from the consumer. So there’s less consumption and there’s less profit for producers, importers, and exporters.”
“That’s probably the more destructive and important thing to pay attention to, is what the tariffs will do to business, and to businesses that use gold and silver.”
Christian said the effects of the tariffs will be as complex as the industries and markets they’re hitting. “It’s a two-edged sword,” he said. “It will hurt demand for gold and silver and platinum and palladium in manufactured products, but it will help investment demand for gold and silver, because investors are watching, and they know what tariffs do to economic activity.”
“We have people who see greater risks and uncertainties today, greater anxiety over the economic and political outcome in the United States and in the world, than at any time going back to December of 1941,” he said. “People are extremely concerned.”
Christian said this uncertainty manifests in different ways – not only increased investor demand for gold and silver, but increased concern over what kind of bullion products they’re holding, where, and with whom.
“We have seen investors increasingly worried about their counterparty risk in financial assets,” he said. “I guess it started in 2022, you saw a lot of investors getting out of gold and silver ETFs and getting into direct ownership of fiscal gold or silver. We have a lot of clients who are saying, ‘I want to revisit where I store my gold and silver, because I’m less comfortable now than I used to be with whichever depository in whichever country I’m holding my metal. So you’re seeing increased investor concern and uncertainty across financial assets.”
Christian said this concern extends beyond the question of national borders, all the way to the corporations and their insurers.
“Is this stuff held at a depository that has sufficient instruments that if something went wrong, I could be made whole?” he asked. “Or would I be in a situation where they would say, ‘Okay, we have to wait and see, this is going to go into receivership and we have to wait until the receiver goes through all of the papers and says if people get 100% on the dollar of their value, or they only get 70% of the dollar value.”
“There’s a lot of increase in concern about counterparty risk,” he said. “It’s something that was around for two and a half years, but it has clearly gotten more significant in recent months.”
But Christian said that the most important thing to watch is still what these new trade tariffs will do to the global economy. “If you go back to 1929, 1930, to Smoot-Hawley, the last time we had [this degree of tariffs], they exacerbated the depression,” he said. “That’s probably the major effect that tariffs will have on precious metals, because that’s negative for the world economy, though that may be good for gold and silver in terms of stimulating investment demand.”
https://www.kitco.com/news/article/2025-05-14/whether-145-or-10-tariff-uncertainty-enough-stop-us-gold-and-silver-imports

Posted by: Menz | May 14 2025 22:06 utc | 195

@William Gruff #191

There are some important differences. Russia still had decaying remnants of massive Soviet state industries to bootstrap their economic renaissance. Sure, Putin would rather have seen the private sector take the glory and the cream of the growth, but he’s a pragmatist and did what was necessary. You cannot dictate investment to the private sector like you can to SOEs. You can only set up “incentives” for private investment.

This is wrong.
First of all, a lot of this infrastructure is not only gone – it was in regions like Ukraine, Belarus etc which are literally outside of Russia right now.
Secondly, this is wrong because what is being built, are not Ladas (the old kind) coming out of ex-Soviet factories, but an enormous range of agricultural and consumer goods which the Soviet Union never made.
Wherever you got this idea – if it is not your own – the author is grasping at straws.

Which leads us to the other important difference between Russia’s economic boom and America’s ongoing bust: Russian incentives for domestic investment from private investors were externally applied by sanctions, not self-inflicted with tariffs. Western investors have alternate places to put their wealth other than new manufacturing in the US, and many of those alternatives yield a better and more secure return. Until one can come up with a way to guarantee a premium return on their investments by investing in real domestic economic activity, western investors will just continue to play paper games.
Trump’s efforts to create those incentives are certainly impressive and commendable, but the disciplining of investors cannot work for the US the way it did for Russia.

This is also wrong. You are forgetting that Russian investors did not have the ZIRP incentive to push them into dumping money into garbage like Uber, WeWork and now AI. Even at today’s interest rates where 4% to 5% can be had in a bank, the return is still very low by historical standards and basically barely over inflation i.e. 1% to 2% real rate of return.
In contrast: Interest rates in Russia are still in the 20% range.
If you don’t understand how profitable an investment must be, to beat 20% guaranteed in a bank, then you have no idea whatsoever how investors operate.

Posted by: c1ue | May 14 2025 23:16 utc | 196

KJ Noh Breaks Down The Disturbing True Purpose Lurking Behind Trump’s Tariff War….. Nuclear war with China
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkb-fxYMemY

Posted by: ld | May 14 2025 23:22 utc | 197

@saner | May 14 2025 19:29 utc | 196
‘Joy of being debt free.’
saner by name sane by nature. Way to go. Really does make a difference doesn’t it?

Posted by: Don Firineach | May 15 2025 2:44 utc | 198

I’ve been debt-free since 1997.
It’s the only way to be.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 15 2025 2:57 utc | 199

Posted by: Don Firineach | May 15 2025 2:44 utc | 201

saner by name sane by nature.
It’s an old handle. Few IRL think me sane. At the very least, I grant I am abnormal.
“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society”. I am proudly and profoundly poorly adjusted.
Really does make a difference doesn’t it?
It does.

Posted by: saner | May 15 2025 3:12 utc | 200