Ukraine - Rada Blocks Detail Agreements Of Mineral Deal
The 'mineral deal' between the Trump administration and Ukraine continues to be a contentious issue.
The deal, which was signed last week, consists of (at least) three documents only one of which, the framework agreement, was made public:
The Ukrainian government claims that only the first part has been signed. The other two will follow only after the Ukrainian parliament, the Rada, has ratified the main one. Several 'western' media have contradicted that claim. All three parts of the agreement were signed. But the Ukrainian government is keeping the details of the second and third part secret because the conditions imposed by them are extremely bad for Ukraine.
As Strana reported (machine translation):
[T]he opposition already accuses the authorities of concealing the main points about the deal. The fact is that the agreement on the creation of the fund, signed last week and already made public, is being submitted for ratification, and there are very few specifics in it. This is essentially a framework agreement. For all the main points in the text of the agreement, there are references to another document - the Limited Partnership Agreement. There is also a third document - the Foundation's charter.A number of deputies claim that all three documents have actually been signed (or agreed upon). But they showed only one-the least important and most abstract of them, from which it is not even clear what the Foundation will do in general.
The government denies this, saying that only one document has been signed, and the rest will still be discussed.
Ukraine's parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, is supposed to ratify the framework agreement today. It will likely do so but with a surprise.
Yesterday the Rada Committee for Foreign Policy passed the relevant language but added an amendment to it (machine translation):
"The Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine notes that the ratification of the agreement ... does not mean the ratification or automatic approval by the Parliament of the limited partnership agreement or any other agreements that will be concluded by the parties authorized to do so in order to implement this agreement.The Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine declares that any additional agreements necessary for the implementation of the agreement ... cannot go beyond the provisions of this agreement and establish international legal obligations for Ukraine that are not provided for by it and are not agreed upon in accordance with the established procedure."
The additional text was supported by all members of the committee.
The two side agreements of the mineral deal, which the Zelesnki regime has signed and which include all the gory details of the deal, will be null and void without further ratification:
[I]f the resource agreement is ratified with this amendment, it will mean that either Volodymyr Zelensky will have to submit the limited partnership agreement to the Parliament for ratification, or there will be an opportunity to challenge the deal at any time and recognize it as worthless, since it was not fully ratified by the parliament.
If the ratification of the framework agreement takes place with the additional language the Trump administration may find that, for lack of detailed agreements, it has gained absolutely nothing from it.
It is not known if Zelenski had planned or even supported the parliament move. That all committee members, including those from his party, voted for the amendment may be a hint.
The question then is what Trump is going to do about it?
Posted by b on May 8, 2025 at 11:05 UTC | Permalink
HEY FUCKER .... you can hide down your dark hole but will still be exposed anyway
Posted by: S | May 8 2025 11:17 utc | 1
The question then is what Trump is going to do about it?
No. What are you going to so about it?
Nothing. Nothing at all.
The 'mineral deal' does not matter in the least. Probably why you're keep mentioning it Bernard. THat's all you ever do. Talk about nothing.
Posted by: S | May 8 2025 11:19 utc | 2
As expected.
Trump is likely breathing a sigh of relief right now.
Posted by: William Gruff | May 8 2025 11:26 utc | 3
The question then is what Trump is going to do about it?
Throw hands in the air, shrug and say, "I guess that's Ukraine for you ... you never seem to hear them say thank you for all we have done"
Trump is a lot of things, he plays games, he dances and manoeuvres ... but he ain't completely stupid. The same minerals have been sold to multiple buyers ... the minerals probably never existed in the first place ... and besides that the whole thing was primarily intended as a smoke screen to assist in the EU trousering Russian money.
Trump's purpose is blaming everyone else ... try to focus on that.
Posted by: Tel | May 8 2025 11:26 utc | 4
Thaks for the update. Clearly a story getting no coverage.
Curiously a non-elected president is being overruled by a non-elected Parliament - Democracy at Large!
The mineral deal is essentially a plan to employ a lot of Ukrainians (or immigrants with Israeli supervisors - which will be an interesting social experiment again) to dig holes for not a lot of profit. It will of course provide a lot of opportunities for Ukrainians and Americans to cooperate in their prime objective - corruption.
For the US the mineral deal is essentially a way for Trump to sell his massive climbdown to Russia. We give up Deveselu, the military camp in Romania and Redzikowo in Poland, and sign up to a bunch of missile agreements Trump and others tore up. But we get the mineral deal - So Trump, not Putin won in Ukraine Hurrah.
Posted by: Michael Droy | May 8 2025 11:34 utc | 6
Trump is likely breathing a sigh of relief right now.
Posted by: William Gruff | May 8 2025 11:26 utc | 3
Mmhmm. There are a lot of stupid people constantly insisting that President Trump is the most gullible man alive. But someone like that would never even have worthwhile real estate in New York.
Of course, the Ukrainians are mercenary criminals who think unilateral changes won't be remarked upon, especially in a foreign language. The American retort, of course, will be that they only acknowledge the deal written in English.
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | May 8 2025 11:39 utc | 7
I see the mineral deal what ever it is to be an excuse for failure to deliver on the campaign promise to stop the war in Ukraine in one day.
Words on paper.. structured to mean unenforceable..but arguably productive..
Posted by: snake | May 8 2025 11:39 utc | 8
They don't want to mortgage their future? Go figure. As long as the war continues, U.S. companies are not going into Ukraine unless they can hire cannon fodder
Posted by: Christian J Chuba | May 8 2025 11:41 utc | 9
And, with great fanfare (not), the entire charade collapses like the illusory fraud it always was.
Nothing more than a talking point for the Orangeman to claim "a big, beautiful deal-o!"
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 8 2025 11:54 utc | 10
Spoils to the victor. Russia will take whole Ukraine, absorb Russian parts, the rest will most likely stand as independent country. All decisions by Zelenski and rada are considered illegitimate by both Ukranian constitution and Russia, so what ever is signed isn't worth paper it's signed on.
Cherry on top is that all the property already bought by blackrock and western entities in Ukraine will also get nationalized, as it should.
Posted by: Abe | May 8 2025 11:59 utc | 11
@William Gruff | May 8 2025 11:26 utc | 3
Trump is likely breathing a sigh of relief right now.He can 'declare victory and leave' once more, but will he do it? Probably not.
Posted by: Norwegian | May 8 2025 12:04 utc | 12
I sold my neighbor’s car yesterday
Most of the minerals are now and forever under Russian control
Posted by: Anunnaki | May 8 2025 12:07 utc | 13
With the country's debt approaching 100% of GDP, Ukraine's Minister of Finance Serhiy Marchenko boasted about the possibility of shifting the burden of debt payments to European taxpayers.Most of this debt was borrowed during the war on soft terms from our partners. That is, we are talking about the fact that in the NEXT 30 YEARS we will not repay these debts," he said.The total amount of Ukraine’s state and state-guaranteed debt as of September 2024 was $155.69 billion, including the $112.06 billion of external debt, according to data released by the Ukrainian Ministry of Finance.
Soooo...DT without the minerals deal ratification that included a reduced element of debt repayment, and a clear message re loan repayment, the trickery of Ukraine is even more revealingnof its corrupt nature. Does that give DT anger, despair, a
sense of revenge, sufficient to stop all continuing armaments eg, declare Ukraine insolvent to be picked off by USA companies...any other leverage....and what about the other eebtees IMF ,especially UK as Alex Krainer forecast would be brought into finanncial crisis due to Ukraine debt tipping it over, EU banks and individual EU countries- so EU can suffer even more and DT can get "revenge"for EU stymying his plans and put down to a more subserviant level?
Posted by: Jo | May 8 2025 12:20 utc | 14
Rarely mentioned are all the mineral rights sold to the Western oil majors after
Maidan, remember when they were going to frack the hell out of Ukraine as soon as
they got rid of the people.
Posted by: qparker | May 8 2025 12:25 utc | 16
News Forensics has drawn comparison with the Iraqi Development Fund set up after Gulf War II.
Lots of money 'disappeared', not much development occurred.
The Rada is right to choke on the details.
Posted by: ChatNPC | May 8 2025 12:29 utc | 17
[email protected] those predictions, or bets.....
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 8 2025 12:44 utc | 18
Trump will not even mention it and declare a huge victory for America. Its all about narrative and theatre to keep the dumbed down masses asleep.
Posted by: JustTruth | May 8 2025 12:51 utc | 19
Trump will not even mention it and declare a huge victory for America. Its all about narrative and theatre to keep the dumbed down masses asleep.
Posted by: JustTruth | May 8 2025 12:51 utc | 20
Re: Posted by: Michael Droy | May 8 2025 11:34 utc | 6
For the US the mineral deal is essentially a way for Trump to sell his massive climbdown to Russia. We give up Deveselu, the military camp in Romania and Redzikowo in Poland, and sign up to a bunch of missile agreements Trump and others tore up. But we get the mineral deal - So Trump, not Putin won in Ukraine Hurrah.
No chance this happens - why would it?
Posted by: Julian | May 8 2025 12:51 utc | 21
>>the minerals probably never existed in the first place
>>Trump's purpose is blaming everyone else ... try to focus on that.
Posted by: Tel | May 8 2025 11:26 utc | 4
>>For the US the mineral deal is essentially a way for Trump to sell his massive climbdown to Russia.
Posted by: Michael Droy | May 8 2025 11:34 utc | 6
The issue with these minerals isn't whether they exist, but whether they can be mined with a profit. Lacking that they are of no great value. As they are (for the most part) not currently being mined, that supports that they are not currently profitable to mine: thus of no great value.
My take on the situation is that Trump wants out of Ukraine, but so far has been unwilling to take the political hit that would go with pulling out, and so he is thrashing around looking for some way to minimize the political hit.
The problem the Ukrainians have that they could solve is their hatred for Russia. Lacking that they could agree to anything with us, and then when the shooting stops and things settle out, renounce any deal and align with Russia. No moral objection to that here because we are just screwing them over to satisfy our self interest. An alignment with Russia would produce a better outcome than they will get with NATO. It would appear that Georgia and probably Rumania have figured that out. Ukraine should make the flip when expedient.
Posted by: Jmaas | May 8 2025 12:52 utc | 22
🇺🇦 The Verkhovna Rada has approved the ratification of the agreement between the US and Ukraine on mineral resources.
This was reported by Rada deputy Zheleznyak.
Not a single deputy voted against it.
Sold!
@ukraine_watch
?
Posted by: Jo | May 8 2025 13:03 utc | 24
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 8 2025 12:44 utc | 17
Those are historical practices. BTW, Afghanistan also had its mineral rights and land bought by same western companies, I don't see them owning or exploiting anything there any more.
Posted by: Abe | May 8 2025 13:05 utc | 25
Trump is fine with that. The "deal" has always been silly. There's zero chance the US gets some super valuable colonial concession. Regardless of what the agreements say, don't say. Secret agreements or not. The whole thing is just some paperwork so he has an excuse to give the Q-tards in his base about why he is continuing Biden's support of Ukraine.
It's telling that the US has not published the "secret" agreements either. They are fine with letting Z man play his game. It's Trump's game too. Image over substance.
Honestly, even if Ukraine signed something demeaning, they could still renounce it later, still nationalize mines, etc. Just look at Saudi Aramco. Heck, look at the creeping nationalization that Putin did to Exxon. Unless you put boots on ground, that's always a risk in extranational investments. (One reason why they are poorly developed!)
Posted by: Anonymous | May 8 2025 13:17 utc | 26
The know part of the Ukrainian deal with the USA- cancelling US Visa for those who do not vote for it
"government officials decided to tell the deputies what was in it, without showing documents. And President Zelensky, let me remind you, not only publicly Liedthat the deputies have the opportunity to get acquainted with the entire package signed in the States, and even more publicly called on the United States to cancel visas for those people's deputies who will not vote for the ratification of the Intergovernmental Agreement. Vladimir Alexandrovich has not served us such an explosive cocktail of disrespect and arbitrariness for a long time. E
It is clear from the text who actually has the royal flush: the United States "expects" — Ukraine "must", the US Treasury Department "can" — the government of Ukraine "commits," the U.S. government "confirms" — the government of Ukraine "must."
The wording of the fifth clause of the agreement finally lowers from heaven to earth: "If, after the entry into force, the Government of the United States of America provides the Government of Ukraine with new military assistance in any form...". And if it doesn't?
The joint Ukrainian-American Fund will be managed by the Council with an equal number of representatives of Ukraine and the United States, it will be assisted by four committees. Here parity drops sharply again:
The Investment Committee responsible for investment decisions is three managers from the United States, two managers from Ukraine;
The Administrative Committee, responsible for management and administration, consists of three managers from the United States and two managers from Ukraine;
The Audit Committee, responsible for engaging third-party auditors, as well as hiring and supervising a contribution evaluation consultant, consists of two U.S. managers and two Ukrainian managers;
The project search committee, responsible for identifying investment opportunities, finally has three managers in Ukraine and two managers in the United States.
And we signed up to give another country a significant share of the subsoil and rent in exchange for the supply of weapons to end the war. How will the war end, when and where will it end? What kind of Ukraine will it be, from which in ten years they will begin to export tax-free profits? No one knows. And most importantly, there are no security guarantees in the entire "resource" package."
Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 8 2025 13:21 utc | 27
DJT knows what's going on, specifically he knows how neo-con Republicans are tweezering him in Congress, so he just has to play the part, as if handed a script onstage.
The Limited Partnership Trust Fun, heretofore known as the Minerals Deal---whose actual details of which will remain unpublished---was an instrument by which DJT could arrange for $3 billion of Russia's Frozen Assets in EuroClear to be deposited into the Trust Fund in order to continue the grift portion of Project Ukraine.
Recall that within hours of signing the Limited Partnership docs, EuroClear transferred to a "Western fund" $3 billion of the *principal* of Russia's Frozen Assets, not merely the *interest* on the principal.
So they are slicing into the sinew & muscle, monetarily speaking.
Expect more such disbursements to occur.
Inking the Limited Partnership Trust Fun, heretofore known as the Minerals Deal, was a way to maintain UK *solvency*, I use that term lightly, and to sustain the type of money stream that those who profit from Project Ukraine enjoy.
Paying for the government in Ukraine, the public services, pensions, salaries, etc costs $5bn *each month.*
This is an expensive war. If DJT can't go to Congress to get additional taxpayer monies to support the effort---see MTG: he cannot---then he's got to shake a different Money Tree.
The EuroClear Frozen Assets are going to 'make it rain' in Ukraine---and the Limited Partnership Trust Fun, heretofore known as the Minerals Deal, is the instrument by which that will happen.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 13:21 utc | 28
Zelinsky rewrites history:
"More than 8 million Ukrainians fought against Nazism not only as part of the Soviet army. Tens of thousands fought in the Allied armies, hundreds of thousands in rebel detachments and resistance movements.
In that war, we had no rear - our entire land was a continuous front, a bridgehead, an open wound. Every city, village, every house and every family suffered.
And we do not give this memory to the new, Russian Nazism, just as we do not give it our present," the president writes.
Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 8 2025 13:22 utc | 29
Recall Nancy Antoinette: "We have to *pass* the Bill to see what's in it."
The Rada's 100% ratification of the Limited Partnership Trust, heretofore known as the Minerals Deal, is right out of the Democrat's Congressional playbook.
No one will ever read the details of the Limited Partnership Trust.
The fine print of the Limited Partnership Trust will never see the light of day.
The EuroClear Frozen Assets are going to 'make it rain' in Ukraine---and the Limited Partnership Trust Fun, heretofore known as the Minerals Deal, is the instrument by which that will happen.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 13:40 utc | 30
🇩🇪🏴☠️🇺🇦 Germany has handed over another package of military aid to Ukraine, according to the country's government website.
In particular, the package included:
▫️3 155 mm howitzers Zuzana-2;
▫️66 protected vehicles;
▫️anti-aircraft guided missiles for the IRIS-T air defense system;
▫️120 mm shells for Leopard-2 tanks;
▫️almost 40 thousand 35-mm shells for the Gepard ZSU;
▫️27 thousand 155 mm shells;
▫️1000 122mm shells.
The list of military aid was updated on May 6, when the leader of the German CDU party, Friedrich Merz, was elected Chancellor of Germany at the second attempt.
plus reportedly EU given -oe loaned???- another 1b from interest from held russian funds......?
Posted by: Jo | May 8 2025 13:46 utc | 31
Norwegian @12: ”He can 'declare victory and leave' once more, but will he do it? Probably not.”
Yeah, probably not, but this is another opportunity for him to do so, and he should take it if possible.
Posted by: William Gruff | May 8 2025 13:59 utc | 32
Something that comes to mind is an issue few, if any, are likely to be thinking about: The more 'deals' that are made over the Ukraine's post-war arrangements will be problematic, as all the paper and boots on the ground are going to make it so heavy the entire nation might 'tip over', as was a major fear with moving troops to Guam some years ago.
Posted by: John S | May 8 2025 14:05 utc | 33
The Duran boys theorize that this is not a "minerals deal" at all, it is the setting up of a slush fund in Ukraine that will not be audited. It is another off-shore account for the wealthy of both Ukraine and the USA.
The money goes in and then the money goes out, and no one knows where, just like in other places the US has invaded (after they steal the gold, which happens first thing. In Libya, there were tons of gold AND silver, so the US stole both.)
Posted by: wagelaborer | May 8 2025 14:36 utc | 34
The Orange Yankee, Zionist POTUS will threaten to withdraw weapons aid from the Neo-Nazi regime, that is Ukraine, if - he doesn't get his way - for me Trump is a shallow (as a muddy puddle) sociopath, who is so used to getting his way, that - now he won't take no for an answer.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | May 8 2025 14:56 utc | 35
It is a sort of miracle that this nothingburger has generated so many headlines and so much conversation.
And we're still talking about it like it matters or is tangible.
Trump truly is the most powerful man on the planet.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 8 2025 15:02 utc | 36
Continuing to "talk about this" (the Limited Partnership Trust Fund, heretofore known as the Minerals Deal) indicates the degree to which neocon entities in the U.S., UK and France keep roping DJT into the ongoing conversation about Project Ukraine, thus keeping it front & center in the news-cycle.
If DJT were to delegate the management of Project Ukraine to JD, for instance, then he---DJT---would be @ liberty during pressers or Oval opportunities to say, "Listen, JD is working very hard on this, and when there's something to report I'll let you know."
That way, DJT won't continually have to walk the same ground again and again and keep the expectation of x, y and z actions happening to build momentum & enthusiasm about Project Ukraine.
De-center it, in other words. Let DJT front the PR for his own domestic policies, where he has the chance to make realistic gains. Make *noise* about domestic policies.
Relatedly, the press---supplied by neocons w/ the *right* questions to ask---keeps peppering DJT w/ inquiries as to whether he will "walk away." The press seems to be waiting w/ baited breath on whether he-will or whether he-won't, because the answer will drive *their* future news-cycle.
Speculate, speculate, speculate. What if-? What if-? What if-? Control of the narrative runs their business. They know what they're doing.
Recall that Project Ukraine is as much an opportunity for Narrative Management within the U.S.-led Western sphere as it is an actual war.
If the neocons in the U.S., UK and France can't tell a compelling story about it, what can they do-?
(Because they & their proxy are not going to move the needle on the battlefield.)
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 15:22 utc | 37
I wonder what the REAL STORY is about the mineral deal agreement. Being that THERE IS NO RARE EARTH MINERALS IN UKRAINE. Even the Babylon Bee has a gag article about it.
Posted by: Fortuna | May 8 2025 15:22 utc | 38
thanks b...
@ Jo | May 8 2025 12:20 utc | 14
the money is what all of this is about, so it is good to point out how the imf ponzi scheme holding up ukraine, which includes all the blackrocks dibs on parts of ukraine and etc - are much like a deja vu of a previous trump mindset... what i am getting at is trumps mantra about taking greenland or making canada the 51st state and etc... if trump was around back in 2014, it would have been something similar - 'we will take ukraine' - for the resources... so here we are much further along and it is indeed about the 'resources' the minerals, lol... same guy and same late stage capitalism in operation, looking to feast off others financial problems.. only now ukraine is more then a financial problem, but one where people keep on dying and the population of ukraine continues on it's steady decline...
but alas!! little donnie has a plan, or is it an escape route?? and the world continues to go to hell in a bandbasket - an imf type handbasket.. what a messed up world we live in where bozos are allowed to reveal their duplicitous nature on public television 24/7..
Posted by: james | May 8 2025 15:30 utc | 39
Julia Davis, the newly appointed US Chargé d'Affaires in Ukraine, was personally present at the vote in the Rada and supervised the process.
Posted by: Night Tripper | May 8 2025 15:31 utc | 40
Trump says he will soon speak to the leader of the newly established U.S. colony of Ukraine.https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/147008
He hasn't read this MOA post yet.
Posted by: Norwegian | May 8 2025 15:33 utc | 41
@ Paul from Norway | May 8 2025 13:22 utc | 29
here is another quote from the article.. "He noted that victory and true memory are not with those who have parades, but with those with whom the truth is." zelensky is a real joker, isn't he?? it is definitely worse having him as leader then trump - close call, but i think it would be worse having zelensky as your leader..
Posted by: james | May 8 2025 15:35 utc | 42
If Zelenski doesn't use every single means, nefarious or not, legal or not, ethical or not to obtain money from the 'west' he will be literally strung up, hung by the neck at the nearest lamppost by the Azov crowd. The Azov types require this money to run and hide, and assume new identities to avoid Russian justice.
In hindsight, Zelenski chose the wrong profession. He is now in a deadly trap. The only way he escapes is money, and lots of it.
Posted by: rgl | May 8 2025 15:41 utc | 43
Posted by: Julian | May 8 2025 12:51 utc | 21
#######
The NATO negotiating position continues to erode.
They will never get a better offer than right now.
It is only the charity and morality of Russia that has allowed the West to exist today.
NATO can negotiate their defeat or can embrace oblivion. Their call.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 8 2025 15:47 utc | 44
There is no conceivable scenario where the West "wins" and defeats Russia, let alone China and Iran.
But please do try.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 8 2025 15:50 utc | 45
Ukrainian Finance Minister Marchenko said that Kiev is not going to repay its debts in the next 30 yearshttps://t.me/Slavyangrad/126759
Unilateral debt restructuring
Posted by: Norwegian | May 8 2025 15:52 utc | 46
Notice how there's much less hyperventilating over the West Asia hot zones, whether involving DJT's intentions w/ Iran---the will-he/won't-he ping-pong match ad infinitum---and also the bombardment of Yemen. The U.S. flew over 1000 sorties in a 4-week period, trying to take down Ansar Allah, but the extreme nature of the bombardment used up very little media ink.
Not so for Project Ukraine.
War is expensive.
In order to wage it, a belligerent needs a steady/reliable flow of cash.
Project Ukraine is immeasurably more difficult, money-wise, than the bombing of Yemen or the "unwavering" support of Isarel's genocide in Gaza.
Project Ukraine is a Louis-Vuitton-Moet-Hennesy caliber of warfare & grift---the hot zones in West Asia are not.
Project Ukraine is also a *coalition* war---so lots of expensive high-maintenance types to keep paid and in line.
Project Ukraine drives moneyed heights, like @ Davos in the alps or the Atlantic Council in Aspen---the hot zones of West Asia do not. Even w/ all the talk of the glittering Gaza Club Med Riviera, West Asia's hot zones cannot compete w/ the Diamond Medallion Caliber grift of Project Ukraine.
All wars are bankers wars.
Unconditional support for Israel in its warfare is already hard-budgeted into the balance sheet; no questions asked. The bankers calmly count the deposits.
Project Ukraine is trickier because it is a *coalition* war---more beaks get to dip---and it is making the bankers yippy, because it is not hard-budgeted in on anybody's balance sheet.
To recap: there’s more risk w/ Project Ukraine. It’s dicier financially. That’s why it commands center stage in the news-cycle.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 15:55 utc | 47
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 15:55 utc | 47
#######
It commands center stage because it is about people who look European. If everyone in Ukraine and Russia were brown, Tucker Carlson would never visited.
Like it or not, that's reality.
Not all lives have equal value, and those furthest from us will always have less. Like I care more about my pets than I do about yours.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 8 2025 16:04 utc | 48
the Bum's Rush is full-on once more: Gen Kellogg has indicated Kiev's willingness to Freeze the Conflict and retreat 15km from the current front-line in order to establish a 30km wide demilitarized zone "that you can actually monitor and observe," according to Gen Kellogg.
As DJT's team casts about for a way to *trick* Russia into *capitulating* Gen Kellogg proves himself the sharpest knife in the drawer. Armistice-minded down to the beds of his toenails, Gen Kellogg is still auguring for a scintilla of credibility.
If Reassurance Forces can "monitor and observe" the demilitarized zone, then the conflict will be over, especially if those "monitoring & observing" fail to notice UK and French troops posting up.
It's downright weird that Gen Kellogg would continue serving up leftovers from last night's dinner. Are we in the 21st Century-?
Peskov to TASS: "There have been no relevant statements by Kiev on this issue."
On top of which, JD, addressing a Munich Leaders summit in D.C. said, in reference to VVP's *core issues*, "The Russians are asking for a certain set of requirements, a certain set of concessions, in order to end the conflict. We think they're asking for too much."
DJT, asked to comment on this, said, "It's possible that JD's right. I'm not happy about it."
Russia's demands for ending hostilities have remained steady & unchanging: Ukraine must demilitarize, denazify, abandon NATO ambitions and remain nuclear free. In addition, Kiev must recognize the Russian regions of Crimea, Kherson, Zaporozhye as well as Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics.
DJT and JD are flailing, unable to deal w/ the inevitable.
DJT *heard* what Russia's terms were but did not *listen.*
His ability to take meaningful action is as diminished as Collective Biden's was. The U.S. sees the inevitable---a Russian military victory---but cannot of course aid & abet it.
The tedium of this soap opera has to play out.
Moreover, DJT needs Congressional neocons to help pass his Big Beautiful Budget Bill in mid-July, so the U.S.'s legislative cycle still governs its foreign policy, as it did w/ Collective Biden. DJT has to please various masters right now and make sure no Republicans prance when Congress votes in July.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 16:14 utc | 49
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 16:14 utc | 49
RE: the parameters of U.S.'s *new* peace plan
Russia should make a counter-offer to Kellogg: make *all* of what's left of Ukraine a DMZ.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 16:17 utc | 50
The "mineral deal" was simply Trump selling-out his base of support - a financial vehicle which "justifies" continued assistance to Ukraine (military and financial). The alternative would have amounted to an admission of defeat by NATO, the US military and the CIA - cannot be allowed to happen, is above Trump's pay grade. They allow him to look "presidential" by continuing the bombing and starvation of Palestinians.
I suspect that Trump had generally good intentions, but he ends up simply being front man in a scam on his own public.
A sad state of affairs.
Posted by: jared | May 8 2025 16:20 utc | 51
With Joe, it was Hunter.
With Kellogg, it's his daughter.
She runs a *charity* in Ukraine, transporting wounded mercs from the West to medical facilities in Europe or in the U.S. This is an NGO-style set-up. Her charity paid for her dad---Gen Kellogg--to travel to Kiev/Odessa and to speak at an event *before* DJT won the 2024 election.
Kellogg is biased in the way Joe was, both men seeing Project Ukraine as a way to enrich their offspring, if not their families altogether.
DJT picked Kellogg to pacify the neocons. In fact, DJT's choice of Mike Waltz for NSA came w/ a Plus One (like in a wedding invitation.)
The Plus One was Gen Kellogg.
Now that Waltz has been offramped, Kellogg nonetheless remains, shucking & jiving in his media appearances on Fox News and talking the game.
In order to appease the neocons in Congress, it is better for now to keep Kellogg onboard until the mid-July vote on DJT's Big Beautiful Budget Bill.
Scuttlebutt tells us, by the way, that the Senate will *not* confirm Waltz for the UN gig. Too much unanswerable murk surrounding the Signalgate situation, Jeffrey Goldberg and Waltz's back-channel dealings w/ Bibi.
Keep your eyes peeled.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 16:30 utc | 52
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 16:30 utc | 52
RE: scuttlebutt about Waltz
<<
DJT *knew* Waltz could not get confirmed by the Senate for the UN ambassadorship, so relegating him to a dog-and-pony beat-down before what is likely to be a hostile Senate chamber was additionally *punishment* for Waltz's playing the fool on DJT's dime.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 16:35 utc | 53
VVP and XI seated side-by-side under glittering chandeliers @ the Kremlin, signing new testaments to their strategic partnership and then exchanging the leatherbound portfolios and shaking hands to a standing ovation.
DJT wants some of that.
So close but so far.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 16:43 utc | 54
On DDG I read:
Even Ukraine’s own parliament has shown unease. The Rada’s foreign affairs committee, in approving the framework, emphasized that any additional agreements must not impose new international obligations on Ukraine. However, the referenced Limited Partnership Agreement—the real heart of the deal—is expected to do exactly that.
So here it is implied that the Limited Partnership Agreement was ratified by the Ukie parliament. Regardless of the (re)phrasing before ratification which boils down to a potato-potato pronunciation discussion, it's clear that what eventually will remain of Ukraine is fucked and condemned to bondage. If only they would have stuck with Yanukovych. This artificial construct called Ukraine would at least have had some semblance of sovereignty.
Posted by: xor | May 8 2025 16:47 utc | 55
Those who are suggesting that most of Ukraine’s rare resources are predominantly in the Donbass and Russian-controlled areas of Ukraine would do well to read this article on Indian Punchline. It may not be so……
https://www.indianpunchline.com/minerals-deal-resets-geopolitics-of-ukraine/
Posted by: Vragtes | May 8 2025 16:49 utc | 56
@Posted by: Jo | May 8 2025 12:20 utc | 14
They are just arranging more slush funds for the Ukrainian and US oligarchy while they can, perhaps the split of the proceeds was not acceptable enough. They know that Russia will be given or impose its conditions, and that those conditions will utterly invalidate any Ukrainian ability to repay debts.
@Posted by: Vragtes | May 8 2025 16:49 utc | 56
That's only a map of the mineral reserves, with no statement of actual amounts in each region. A proper assessment using actual amounts put most of the wealth east of the Dniepr. All of the natural gas fields are also east of the Dniepr or in the south (Crimea). Also, no listing of the farmland where the very best is in the east and the south, with a majority of the rest east of the Dniepr. The article is using a very selective sourcing of information to put forward a misleading position.
Russia will take the south, including Odessa. To not do so would be utterly politically unacceptable in Russia. Hungary may also take that Carpathian region to protect the ethnic Hungarian majority. Then there is Poland and Lviv ...
Posted by: Roger Boyd | May 8 2025 17:35 utc | 57
All deals in the immediate past and long future are just cover to siphon off public funds for private parties. Just look at California wildfire aid. Domestic, International, Country-to-Country, treaties and deals are just vehicles to continue the Grift.
Posted by: azeclecticdog | May 8 2025 17:51 utc | 58
In response to xor@55,
While I agree with your broader point, what's being implied in the text that you've presented, as far as I'm able to understand it, is that the Limited Partnership Agreement is expected to impose new international obligations on Ukraine, which any additional agreements must not do as emphasized in the approval of the framework agreement. Or, in other words, that the LPA is being made unacceptable for ratification in the way that the framework agreement has been approved. But, yeah, potato -- potáto. Is the rada finally standing up for Ukrainian sovereignty and national interests? Will they manage to weasel out of the vassalage that they've otherwise been pursuing? At this late stage? Fat chance.
Posted by: Skiffer | May 8 2025 18:32 utc | 59
Adding to my last post, a Russian joke comes to mind that, since 2014, has grown into a meme about Ukrainians, with a life of its own.
- Mykola, wake up. You've shit yourself.
- I wasn't sleeping.
Posted by: Skiffer | May 8 2025 18:36 utc | 60
9/60 => 15% S Porcupine
4/60 => 06% Donbass
21% of the comments from two people...hmmm.
Posted by: S Brennan | May 8 2025 18:54 utc | 61
steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 15:22 utc | 37
You’ve made some excellent/ informative posts in this thread.
About how the trust “fun” is a device/ subterfuge to appropriate (steal) Russian euroclear reserves…. And particularly this one about narrative control.
You’re correct, it’s the mockingbird media who keep chirping about this… and they sing in chorus like this when they are being fed their lines….
Yep.
steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 16:17 utc | 50
Ye olde “30mile | 30km -demilitarised- zone.
Kellogg thinks Russians have never read history.
The “frozen” conflict in Korea. (No peace treaty)
The islands that are still in dispute between Russia and Japan (no WW2 peace treaty)
The “buffer” zone for the headchoppers in Idlib.
Erdogan and his 30km “buffer” zone on Syrian territory.
The ATO zone in the Donbass, monitored by OSCE … who always saw nothing when Ukraine artillery killed civilians in Donetsk and Gorlovka…
Yeah. The Kellogg Plan buffer zone is sure to appeal to the Russians…….
steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 16:30 utc | 52
No Waltz at the UN.
hmmm what Bibi wants, Bibi gets. That Goldberg was added to the chat by the “intern”…. Means Waltz is a Bibi boy. We’ll see…..
steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 16:43 utc | 54
…VVP and XI seated side-by-side under glittering chandeliers @ the Kremlin,……DJT wants some of that.…
I too noticed the gold and glitter of that magnificent meeting hall….and the pomp and ceremony. How comfortable Putin and Xi appeared.
I could feel Trump squirming in agony all the way down here in the Ukraine of the South Pacific.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 8 2025 19:01 utc | 62
Brennan | May 8 2025 18:54 utc | 61
Porcupine posts have been informative and insightful.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 8 2025 19:03 utc | 63
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 16:17 utc | 50
######
Russia and China should diplomatically isolate the US.
Don't acknowledge that Kellogg exists.
Don't enable the delinquent child (the US).
Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 8 2025 19:14 utc | 64
Do iraqi oil revenues not go to the US and then the US will disburse a stipendiary? Does the US not still retain the German gold reserves and wont return? Did the English not have to give up some islands as part of lend lease and paid Billions until the 2000s for US assistance during WW2? Standard practice really. Diary of an economic hitman is worth a read.
Posted by: Cavery | May 8 2025 20:00 utc | 65
@ Posted by: xor | May 8 2025 16:47 utc | 55
That is an interesting post.
I dont see it mention in your reference, but Mercouris states that the agreement allows that there will be no proceeds to the US for the first 10 years of the agreement. And a problem with such an agreement with an unethical, untrustworthy party is that certainly to proceeds would be net of expenses and expenses can be whatever one wants to claim they are.
Posted by: jared | May 8 2025 20:13 utc | 66
Whatever it is, it's victory for US neocons, gives them another excuse to have permanent residence on the Russian border. Mighty UK gets to feel relevant too. "Ukraine" became a Soros/US Colony 35 years ago. Soros took two years to plan the 2014 violent overthrow of Ukraine's elected government following which US installed Yatsenyuk as new PM ("Yats is the guy," said Nuland). Before and after the "Maidan" Ukraine oligarchs controlled 80-85% of Ukraine GDP. Members of Parliament kept hundreds of thousands of dollars at home. Banks were too corrupt to keep one's money there.
Posted by: susan mullen | May 8 2025 20:55 utc | 67
Who knows? Maybe after a few years of being plundered by the West, the remaining Ukies who haven’t taken their ill-gotten gails to far-off islands might invite the Russians in as liberators. They’re fickle like that.
Posted by: Cato the Uncensored | May 8 2025 21:27 utc | 68
Whatever it is, it's victory for US neocons
Posted by: susan mullen | May 8 2025 20:55 utc | 67
A fleeting victory at best since there won't be a Ukraine in the not-so-distant future, to be followed shortly thereafter by NATO. Such "agreements" only ensure the necessity of that outcome.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | May 8 2025 22:11 utc | 69
This is an expensive war. If DJT can't go to Congress to get additional taxpayer monies to support the effort---see MTG: he cannot---then he's got to shake a different Money Tree.
The EuroClear Frozen Assets are going to 'make it rain' in Ukraine---and the Limited Partnership Trust Fun, heretofore known as the Minerals Deal, is the instrument by which that will happen.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 8 2025 13:21 utc | 28
The Mineral Deal of course is not what it seems, this is as good a theory as any as to its true purpose. As always the spice must flow.
Posted by: Organic | May 8 2025 22:30 utc | 70
Whatever it is, it's victory for US neocons - susan mullen 67
A fleeting victory at best since there won't be a Ukraine - TJandTheBear 69
I tend to agree with the latter but, I think it has more to with providing a legal mechanism so US courts can "compensate" US Companies involved in ex-ukrainia with seized-funds from Russia and US Taxpayers taxes.
Posted by: S Brennan | May 8 2025 22:38 utc | 71
post 27
The most impotant line:
And President Zelensky, let me remind you, not only publicly Lied that the deputies have the opportunity to get acquainted with the entire package signed in the States, and even more publicly called on the United States to cancel visas for those people's deputies who will not vote for the ratification of the Intergovernmental Agreement.
Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 8 2025 23:09 utc | 72
9/60 => 15% S Porcupine
4/60 => 06% Donbass
21% of the comments from two people...hmmm.
Posted by: S Brennan | May 8 2025 18:54 utc | 61
No offense to Porcupine, but I am more of a Love man, myself. Nonetheless, they both play a valuable role at the bar lately. Like yeast for bread.
I'm cool with it.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | May 8 2025 23:50 utc | 73
I like Porky and Donbass, both guys are top notch💎
Posted by: Featherless | May 9 2025 0:13 utc | 74
Posted by: Vragtes | May 8 2025 16:49 utc | 56
It's called Indian punchline because MK is a joke.
"To be sure, President Volodymyr Zelensky has emerged as a statesman of reckoning,"
It's full of garbage just like this quote. How could you ever take MK seriously?
Posted by: Screwdriver | May 9 2025 1:07 utc | 75
Posted by: Screwdriver | May 9 2025 1:07 utc | 75
Until this most recent post I had great respect for Indian Punchline and MK
Something has happened.
it is the silliest thing i have read from him.
Posted by: watcher | May 9 2025 1:35 utc | 76
What Ahenobarbus and Featherless said.
Okay, the Porcupine could work on being more concise, and LoveDonbass’s worldview doesn’t always jive with mine, but the two are IMHO among the most valuable commenters here. As far as I’m concerned they can double their output here.
Posted by: malenkov | May 9 2025 1:44 utc | 77
Vragtes @ 56:
Bhadrakumar lost me after coming out with this clanger starting in the third paragraph:
... To be sure, President Volodymyr Zelensky has emerged as a statesman of reckoning, having consolidated his standing in the powerful nationalist camp that may set at rest any speculations of a regime change in Kiev. Even Moscow seems to sense this unnerving reality, which will have profound consequences for a peace settlement in Ukraine, given the evolution of Ukraine’s animus against Russia, and most important, Ukraine’s integration into the western alliance ...
I'm sure it gets worse from there.
Oh, it does:
... The symbolism in the invitation extended by the Vatican to Zelensky for Pope Francis’ funeral and the Sistine Chapel turning into the venue of a crucial meeting between him and Trump is self-evident. Clearly, the Great Schism of 1054, the break in communion between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church is mutating. This is one thing.If the trend gets reinforced, it will make the job easier for Britain, France and Germany — the bastions of Anglican Church, Catholicism and Protestantism respectively — to push ahead their determination to navigate Ukraine’s future identity as a Praetorian guard of European security with by far the most powerful army (and battle-hardened, too) in the continent ...
After this, MoA barflies may read the rest of the article as comedy.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | May 9 2025 1:49 utc | 78
Paul from Norway @ 29:
Guess who must be rolling in his grave over Zelebobchik's statement?
Posted by: Refinnejenna | May 9 2025 1:54 utc | 79
@ Refinnejenna | May 9 2025 1:54 utc | 79
Sociopaths will sociopath.
Posted by: malenkov | May 9 2025 2:13 utc | 80
Ukraine won't respect any contract, mineral or otherwise.
Trump has had two wives from central Europe. He has to know the Ukranian reputation.
So what will happen then they back out?
Debt collectors will be called in.
Who's the debt collector?
Russia.
Is it crazy? Yes. But it will happen, remember where you heard it first...
Posted by: Houseplant | May 9 2025 2:17 utc | 81
If Brussels doesn't like it, they can pay their NATO bill.
But they won't.
And so Russia will be allowed to take the Baltics. And the US will take Greenland.
Then the Russian flank will be secured.
And the pivot to Asia will start.
I'm just a houseplant.
Posted by: Houseplant | May 9 2025 2:26 utc | 82
Posted by: Houseplant | May 9 2025 2:26 utc | 82
######
What is Trump going to do when he pivots to Asia?
If America can't fight Yemen, it can't fight China.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 9 2025 3:43 utc | 84
To the best of my understanding a significant, maybe the biggest percentage of these rare-earth minerals lie in regions already seized by Russia. Which it has no intention of giving up, or granting special permits for Americans to enter on mineral-exploration tours. So I suppose Zeleboba's plan is 'If you want the minerals, you have to go in and get them.'
https://www.newsweek.com/map-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals-putin-trump-2035902
@LoveDonbass
Not that I disagree with you, but there’s a proverb in MMA : « styles make fights. »
Ie.: the way a fight goes is not so much about the overall ratings of both pugilists, but about how each’s strengths match up against the other’s weaknesses.
Like a kickboxer has better reach than a boxer, but his kicks are vulnerable to the takedowns of a wrestler.
Posted by: Featherless | May 9 2025 5:38 utc | 86
Posted by: Featherless | May 9 2025 5:38 utc | 86
########
Fair enough, but I don't believe domains like MMA and global nuclear war are fungible.
Trump is a showman, and if he tries to take on China, it will be his last fight. China has shown him what they think about America by refusing to negotiate tariffs.
It is not 2021 anymore. Everyone is underestimating how far the Axis has outpaced the US in military tech.
As much as Trump needs the GOP Senate with the inevitable impeachments coming, he cannot play GI Joe with the Axis. They won't perform the same theatrics for their domestic audiences.
Unlike America, the ROW hates war. His stunt of firing missiles at an empty Syrian airfield to intimidate China won't fly (pun intended) today.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 9 2025 5:51 utc | 87
So I suppose Zeleboba's plan is 'If you want the minerals, you have to go in and get them.'
Posted by: Mark | May 9 2025 5:11 utc | 85
Ukr has been selling resources in Donbass since 2014, this not the first time they've been selling things they don't have. Mostly to UK. This mineral deal is internal propaganda for president Camacho. Anyway, there's nothing Russia won't sell to US. They do the same with Japan and as soon as Camacho allows them to use NS in exchange for a fee and control of the buyer selection, it'll be full of gas the next day.
Posted by: rk | May 9 2025 7:05 utc | 88
‘The additional text was supported by all members of the committee’
The additional text sounds totally like lawyerly speak from Heart of the City …
They just can’t help themselves, raised as they are in traditional demanding pounds of flesh contractual law as word of god which must be obeyed by all regardless of belief.
The City is trying to resist with its pre trumpian Starmztrooper/Bidenesque/Eurocraztic secret 100 year ‘treaty’ … the truth will out and time is telling and nearly up on whether Humpty Trumpty has serious ambitions as a genuine statesman; or just remains a gaylord riverboat showman and gambler loser in the history books, to be reviled like Nero fiddling as Rome burnt.
Posted by: DunGroanin | May 9 2025 7:21 utc | 89
Bloomberg is reporting that total exports were up but exports to US are down. So far, China is holding up and weathering the tariff storm.
Posted by: Eighthman | May 9 2025 19:13 utc | 90
"The Trump Crime family".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsFzuvb1yKg (length: 7 minutes 40 seconds)
From the "Lincoln Project" ( https://www.youtube.com/@TheLincolnProject ).
Posted by: WMG | May 9 2025 23:37 utc | 91
Posted by: S | May 8 2025 11:17 utc | 1
Posted by: S | May 8 2025 11:19 utc | 2
These comments are not mine.
Posted by: S | May 11 2025 16:35 utc | 92
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