News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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May 15, 2025
Ukraine Open Thread 2025-105
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https://www.flightradar24.com/3a57b46c
Anonymous Saab 340 ISR on the Black Sea beat.
Maybe this one? Poland (or their leaders at any rate) are always banging the drums.
https://www.saab.com/newsroom/press-releases/2023/saab-unveils-first-airborne-surveillance-system-for-poland
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 15 2025 12:19 utc | 1
As has been apparent since ’22 the Russians have no intention of making peace on any terms Kiev and the Europeans would be happy with. Putin’s recent remarks during his meeting with some businessmen indicate that he’s not only written the Europeans off as serious players. He’s now prepared to say so publicly.
The word he used for the Europeans has been translated as “idiots”. Ever the diplomat even when he’s being undiplomatic Putin failed to use the correct term. “Suicidal lunatics” best describes the current crop of European politicians.
The Americans are a different matter. The Americans don’t have the military or economic power to bring to bear that could affect the result of the Ukrainian war. But by continuing Intel and arms support they can prolong that war. They did so in Biden’s time. They are doing so now.
Biden’s aim was to “bleed” the Russians, albeit at some cost to the proxies, though he could not beat them. So far Trump has continued that policy. Trump now has to decide whether to continue “bleeding” the Russians and face defeat later, or whether to cut his losses now. Both courses of action have electoral advantages and electoral disadvantages for Trump. With the midterms looming he ought really to make up his mind soon which way to jump.
What none of us know is how far the Ukrainians themselves are prepared to play their role of piggy in the middle in this conflict between the Great Powers. There’s now an active resistance in remnant Ukraine. As it becomes clearer to the Ukrainians that defeat is closer, more in the administration itself are veering towards the Russians and more in the general population are assisting Russian Intel. The economic situation is poor – Ukraine now only survives on Western aid and that’s not as extensive as it was. And more Ukrainians are grasping the fact that the West has used and then betrayed them. That’s been noticeable in the Ukrainian internet and media at least since Vilnius and is more noticeable now.
So when we hear some analysts and commentators remarking confidently that this war is still set for the long haul, we should remember that we don’t know much about what’s happening in remnant Ukraine itself and that there’s always the possibility of internal collapse. Trump may not have as much time to make up his mind as he’d like.
Posted by: English Outsider | May 15 2025 12:24 utc | 2
Apparently a Russian fighter jet took a look at Estonia trying to board a Russian merchant vessel this morning, entering NATO airspace briefly.
Posted by: Truthsayer | May 15 2025 12:27 utc | 3
Posted by: Truthsayer | May 15 2025 12:28 utc | 4
It’s strange that Lula, at Zelensky’s request, would opt to stop off in Moscow on his trip back to Brasilia from Beijing to tell VVP to show up at the negotiations in Turkeye, “damn it.”
Moscow is not conveniently on the path of a flight back from Beijing to Brasilia.
Zelensky’s ‘ask’ of Lula is not at issue, but you’ve gotta wonder uncomfortably about Lula going out of his way to land in Moscow, head to the Kremlin, in order to nudge VVP toward an untenable set-up.
Sure, sure, I get it: Brazil is a foundational member of BRICS+, so of course Zelensky wants to prevail upon Lula to use his influence on VVP, such that it is, to encourage VVP to show up in Istanbul.
Lula of course might have *declined* to intervene, however. He was at the tail-end of a lengthy international trip which had seen him already on Red Square just a week before for the Victory Day celebration. In fact, during that leg of his trip Lula had *already* relayed a communication from Zelensky to VVP.
So Lula has carried water for Ukraine twice in one week.
It’s hard to understand if there was an incentive for Lula to do *more*, some inducement, that didn’t on the surface show-?
Macron Dior dubbed Ukraine the “beating heart of Europe,” and we accept his hyperbole, of course: he is a Euro leader who has joined himself at the hip w/ Ukraine.
But Lula-?
He’s acting like a World Economic Forum agent on the globalist’s behalf.
VVP made clear what he expects from an opening round of negotiations, diplomat-to-diplomat. Those, like Lula, who seemed willing to let VVP conduct his business, are now starting to grow weak-kneed-?
Entities beyond the U.S.-led NATO seem willing to make it obvious that *VVP* is the problem, that *VVP* is the obstacle: “do you really want peace-?”
They are using the word “peace” to mean that Russia must forego addressing the *root causes* & sign on to an unfavorable deal that looks like a capitulation.
It is peculiar even that Sec Rubio, Gen Kellogg and Witkoff are horning in… That’s a lot of fire-power for the U.S. to send to Istanbul.
Gotta wonder at the ongoing steep investment in Time & Attention on the part of the U.S. to Project Ukraine. No one can look away for a couple of seconds from the “beating heart of Europe”-?
Hard to see how intensely the U.S. doubles down on this.
Witkoff has no doubt heard about the *root causes* several times by now. When he meets w/ Medinsky et al in Istanbul he’ll hear about the *root causes* once again.
Of course Witkoff understands that the U.S. is not incentivized to act on the *root causes.* Neither is Russia incentivized to freeze the conflict and work toward a demilitarized zone.
Both sides, therefore, affirm how little incentivized they are to move toward each other in a negotiation, and Russia continues prosecuting its SMO.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 12:31 utc | 5
Putin should only be in the same room as Zelensky if Zelensky has been thoroughly checked for explosives and weapons, including chemical and biological ones. After all, Zelensky is replaceable, Putin not so much.
How possible is it nowadays to design a pathogen uniquely dangerous to a given group of people – remembering the huge population crashes in the post-Columbus New World, presumably not impossible.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 15 2025 12:40 utc | 6
Daily update, in case anyone can’t use the link, text copied.
https://tass.com/politics/1958369
Russian troops liberate two communities in Donetsk region over past day — top brass
Battlegroup West units liberated the settlement of Torskoye and Battlegroup Center units liberated the settlement of Novoaleksandrovka through active operations
MOSCOW, May 15. /TASS/. Russian troops liberated the communities of Torskoye and Novoaleksandrovka in the Donetsk region over the past day in the special military operation in Ukraine, Russia’s Defense Ministry reported on Thursday.
“Battlegroup West units liberated the settlement of Torskoye in the Donetsk People’s Republic through active operations… Battlegroup Center units liberated the settlement of Novoaleksandrovka in the Donetsk People’s Republic through decisive operations,” the ministry said in a statement.
Kiev loses over 1,400 troops in all frontline areas over past day
The Ukrainian army lost more than 1,400 troops in battles with Russian forces in all the frontline areas over the past 24 hours, according to the latest data on the special military operation in Ukraine released by Russia’s Defense Ministry.
The latest figures show that the Ukrainian army lost more than 165 troops and three armored combat vehicles in the responsibility area of Russia’s Battlegroup North, roughly 240 troops and two armored combat vehicles, including a US-made M113 armored personnel carrier in the responsibility area of the Battlegroup West, about 245 troops, a tank and five armored combat vehicles, including an American-made M113 armored personnel carrier in the responsibility area of the Battlegroup South.
During the last 24-hour period, the Ukrainian army also lost over 515 troops and six armored combat vehicles in the responsibility area of the Battlegroup Center, more than 160 troops and three armored combat vehicles in the responsibility area of the Battlegroup East and about 75 troops in the responsibility area of the Battlegroup Dnepr, the latest figures show.
Russia’s Battlegroup North inflicts over 165 casualties on Ukrainian army in past day
Russia’s Battlegroup North inflicted more than 165 casualties on Ukrainian troops and destroyed three enemy armored combat vehicles in its area of responsibility over the past day, the ministry reported.
“Battlegroup North units inflicted losses on massed manpower and equipment of a mechanized brigade, an air assault brigade, two assault regiments of the Ukrainian army and two territorial defense brigades in areas near the settlements of Ryzhevka, Atinskoye, Iskriskovshchina, Bunyakino, Belopolye and Bessalovka in the Sumy Region,” the ministry said.
The Ukrainian army lost more than 165 personnel, three armored combat vehicles, 11 motor vehicles and six field artillery guns in that frontline area over the past 24 hours, it specified.
In addition, Russian forces destroyed two electronic warfare stations of the Ukrainian army, it said.
Russia’s Battlegroup West inflicts 240 casualties on Ukrainian army in past day
Russia’s Battlegroup West inflicted roughly 240 casualties on Ukrainian troops and destroyed two enemy armored combat vehicles, including an American-made M113 armored personnel carrier in its area of responsibility over the past day, the ministry reported.
During the last 24-hour period, Battlegroup West units “inflicted losses on formations of three mechanized brigades, an airmobile brigade and an assault brigade of the Ukrainian army, a territorial defense brigade and a National Guard brigade in areas near the settlements of Podliman, Druzhelyubovka, Olgovka, Andreyevka, Kupyansk, Palamarevka and Nechvolodovka in the Kharkov Region and Raigorodok in the Donetsk People’s Republic,” the ministry said.
The Ukrainian army lost an estimated 240 personnel, two armored combat vehicles, including a US-made M113 armored personnel carrier, 11 motor vehicles and four artillery guns in that frontline area over the past 24 hours, it specified.
In addition, Russian forces destroyed three ammunition depots of the Ukrainian army, it said.
Russia’s Battlegroup South inflicts 245 casualties on Ukrainian army in past day
Russia’s Battlegroup South inflicted roughly 245 casualties on Ukrainian troops and destroyed an enemy tank and five armored combat vehicles, including an American-made M113 armored personnel carrier in its area of responsibility over the past day, the ministry reported.
“Battlegroup South units gained better lines and positions and inflicted losses on manpower and equipment of two mechanized brigades and a mountain assault brigade of the Ukrainian army in areas near the settlements of Seversk, Fyodorovka, Verolyubovka, Konstantinovka, Ivanopolye, Pleshcheyevka, Grigorovka and Chasov Yar in the Donetsk People’s Republic,” the ministry said.
The Ukrainian army lost an estimated 245 personnel, a tank, five armored combat vehicles, including a US-made M113 armored personnel carrier, eight motor vehicles and five field artillery guns in that frontline area over the past 24 hours, it specified.
In addition, Russian forces destroyed two electronic warfare stations and an ammunition depot of the Ukrainian army, it said.
Russia’s Battlegroup Center inflicts over 515 casualties on Ukrainian army in past day
Russia’s Battlegroup Center inflicted more than 515 casualties on Ukrainian troops and destroyed six enemy armored combat vehicles in its area of responsibility over the past day, the ministry reported.
During the last 24-hour period, Battlegroup Center units “inflicted losses on formations of a mechanized brigade, an assault brigade, a jaeger brigade of the Ukrainian army and a marine infantry brigade in areas near the settlements of Razino, Novoolenovka, Novaya Poltavka, Dimitrov and Petrovskoye in the Donetsk People’s Republic,” the ministry said.
The Ukrainian army lost more than 515 personnel, six armored combat vehicles, 10 motor vehicles and three artillery guns in that frontline area over the past 24 hours, it specified.
Russia’s Battlegroup East inflicts over 160 casualties on Ukrainian army in past day
Russia’s Battlegroup East inflicted more than 160 casualties on Ukrainian troops and destroyed three enemy armored combat vehicles in its area of responsibility over the past day, the ministry reported.
“Battlegroup East units kept advancing deep into the enemy’s defenses and inflicted losses on manpower and equipment of two mechanized brigades of the Ukrainian army and a territorial defense brigade in areas near the settlements of Bogatyr and Volnoye Pole in the Donetsk People’s Republic, Temirovka and Chervonoye in the Zaporozhye Region,” the ministry said.
The Ukrainian army lost more than 160 personnel, three armored combat vehicles, four motor vehicles, two field artillery guns and an electronic warfare station in that frontline area over the past 24 hours, it specified.
Russia’s Battlegroup Dnepr destroys 75 Ukrainian troops in past day
Russia’s Battlegroup Dnepr destroyed roughly 75 Ukrainian troops, an enemy artillery gun and an electronic warfare station in its area of responsibility over the past day, the ministry reported.
“Battlegroup Dnepr units inflicted losses on formations of two mechanized brigades and three coastal defense brigades of the Ukrainian army, a marine infantry brigade and three territorial defense brigades in areas near the settlements of Shcherbaki, Malaya Tokmachka, Novodanilovka and Kamenskoye in the Zaporozhye Region, Nikolayevka, Antonovka and Ponyatovka in the Kherson Region,” the ministry said.
“As many as 75 [Ukrainian] military personnel, three motor vehicles, an artillery gun and an electronic warfare station were destroyed,” it said.
Russian forces strike Ukrainian troops, mercenaries in 149 areas over day
Russian forces struck Ukrainian military airfields and deployment sites of enemy manpower and foreign mercenaries in 149 areas over the past day, the ministry reported.
“Operational/tactical aircraft, attack unmanned aerial vehicles, missile troops and artillery of the Russian groups of forces struck infrastructure facilities of military airfields, ammunition depots and temporary deployment areas of Ukrainian armed formations and foreign mercenaries in 149 locations,” the ministry said.
Russia’s Black Sea Fleet destroys Ukrainian seaborne drone in Black Sea
Russia’s Black Sea Fleet destroyed a Ukrainian seaborne drone in the Black Sea over the past day, the ministry reported.
“The Black Sea Fleet’s forces destroyed an uncrewed boat in the waters of the Black Sea,” the ministry said.
Russian air defenses down 169 Ukrainian UAVs, 8 JDAM smart bombs over day
Russian air defense forces shot down 169 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and eight American-made JDAM smart bombs over the past day, the ministry reported.
“Air defense capabilities shot down eight American-made JDAM guided aerial bombs and 169 fixed-wing unmanned aerial vehicles,” the ministry said.
Overall, the Russian Armed Forces have destroyed 662 Ukrainian warplanes, 283 helicopters, 57,275 unmanned aerial vehicles, 605 surface-to-air missile systems, 23,339 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 1,563 multiple rocket launchers, 24,911 field artillery guns and mortars and 35,489 special military motor vehicles since the start of the special military operation, the ministry reported.
Posted by: Newbie | May 15 2025 12:43 utc | 7
Posted by: Truthsayer | May 15 2025 12:28 utc | 4
Yeah this is an act of piracy by Estonia. The Russian Federation needs to make it clear that if this continues they will sink the pirate vessels flying the Estonian flag. No more bullshit. There is no UNSC approved sanctions and the AIS was broadcasting the flag of registry so there are no grounds for boarding. Clear UNCLOS violation to even attempt the boarding in the first place. Direct acts of piracy like this can be responded to with force and should be if this behavior continues.
Posted by: Badjoke | May 15 2025 12:45 utc | 8
Ukraineballs
‘ 🇬🇧🇺🇦British Prime Minister Starmer’s security adviser Jonathan Powell will travel to Turkey to advise Zelensky on the upcoming Russia-Ukraine talks, the Guardian writes.
🐻 Boris Johnson vibes
🇺🇦🇺🇸Ukrainian Foreign Minister Sybiga is already in Turkey, where he met with US Secretary of State Rubio. Lindsey Graham is there too. ‘
Via 🔴 @DDGeopolitics.
You know that it’s all a part of the Great Game the ZioFascist imperialist aristo dynasties have been playing for centuries – when they break cover and openly practice their skullduggery.
It’s them and their ilk who have started endless wars.
They are born and raised to commit grand human crimes, like their ancestors.
They are the real guilty proxy miltary creators and always escape justice.
Frankly a few sent to Kinzhell, or oreshniked in their deep citadels where they plan to survive for centuries if they unleash radioactive poison.
Or have their superyachts and secret islands ‘Bermuda Triangle’ vanished …
It would stop most of the millions dying and forced to migrated annually.
It would destroy their global robber piracy.
It would improve the lives of 90%+ of humanity.
Asking for a few billion friends…
Posted by: DunGroanin | May 15 2025 12:53 utc | 9
If any territory remains with the name “Ukraine”, it will soon or later claim back the lost oblasts and Crimea. A bit like Germany and France going to war over Alsace-Lorraine, that was a big motivation for the French to enter into WWI after the loss of 1870.
So, to eliminate the root cause of future war, Russia must break TFKAU (the territory formerly known as Ukraine) into 2 or 3 pieces, neither of them called “Ukraine”. It will also be a good warning for future morons with usual stupid ideas.
Posted by: Asian Frog | May 15 2025 12:56 utc | 10
Clear UNCLOS violation to even attempt the boarding in the first place. Direct acts of piracy like this can be responded to with force and should be if this behavior continues.
Posted by: Badjoke | May 15 2025 12:45 utc | 8
Yesterday I mentioned this one was a minimum reply.
Further acts should imply pirate ships receiving some aftermarket ventilation features. If this goes on full conversion to underwater ship should be considered.
As flag countries are somehow involved, maybe they should call the Estonian /eu ambassadors and just expel them.
Posted by: Newbie | May 15 2025 12:59 utc | 11
Guys, did Erdoğan say anything about the clown show (“I AM HERE”, “PUTIN COME AND LETS FIGHT U COWARD”) Zelensky crafted?
Posted by: Tortu | May 15 2025 13:05 utc | 12
Sec Rubio insists that “there is no military solution to the war in Ukraine” but what he means is simply that “there is no possibility of a *Ukrainian military victory* in the war in Ukraine.”
The U.S.-led West, as represented by their proxy Ukraine, is not interested in negotiating w/ Russia or drilling down into the *root causes* because the U.S.-led West wants to freeze the conflict, station Euro Reassurance Forces and then begin rearming Ukraine for continuing the conflict @ a later date. The Target Fixation of the U.S.-led West is a tell. The U.S. *insists* on a ceasefire and will not take “No” for an answer.
Macron Dior told an interviewer that the French military is not kitted out well for conducting the kind of high-intensity conflict that’s occurring in Ukraine, however he pledges to put Kiev in the best negotiating position possible, which some take as code to mean ensuring Russia’s defeat.
German chancellor Merz, known to use the small spoon, has said that Russia has until 16 May to agree to a 30-day unconditional ceasefire, and if VVP does not agree, then Merz and his Euro colleagues will slap bone-crushing sanctions on Russia, with the U.S.’s assistance.
It sounds like the U.S.-led NATO allies are in a hurry to get more sanctions in place.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 13:05 utc | 13
When the U.S. asked China to negotiate DJT’s tariffs, two teams of diplomats sat down in Switzerland to hash out the details. Sec Bessent represented the U.S., and China sent its same-level counterparts.
In other words, Xi and DJT did not hustle on over to Switzerland to haggle over the fine print themselves: they relegated that level of wrangling to their diplomats.
So at no point was it appropriate for Xi and DJT to have a face-off.
Ditto now in Istanbul.
Same-level diplomats from both Russia and Ukraine need to prepare the ground, realize productive negotiations, before the heads of state sit down to sign a document.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 13:12 utc | 14
Piracy (soon sinking) of ships was approved by EU sanctions and no one even attempted to vote against, including Hungary.
If they pirate the next ship at bigger distance than yesterday, it won’t be possible for Russia to offer protection. The best solution would have been to sink the ships that were attacking a civilian ship in international waters. Now they will lose the traffic, no one will risk Russian ports. They made a similar mistake a few years ago with HMS Defender and that’s why today they wait like losers in Turkey and no one is coming. Trumpy even started to make fun of them, said Putin has to meet him or nothing will change.
Posted by: rk | May 15 2025 13:18 utc | 15
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 13:05 utc | 13
I’m altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further.
https://tass.com/politics/1958265
Ukraine gets smaller every time Kiev disrupts talks — diplomat
Maria Zakharova recalled Sergey Lavrov’s words that Ukraine would have kept a part of Donbass if the agreements reached at the April 2022 talks in Istanbul had been implemented
Posted by: Newbie | May 15 2025 13:19 utc | 16
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 13:12 utc | 14
That would be true if there was any meaningful negotiation to be had with the underling
DUBAI, May 15. /TASS/. US President Donald Trump said that progress in settling the conflict in Ukraine depends on his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
“Nothing will happen until Putin and I get together,” he told reporters aboard the presidential airplane on his way from Qatar to the UAE.
https://tass.com/world/1958439
Posted by: Newbie | May 15 2025 13:21 utc | 17
On June 6 euroland will impose brutal tariffs on agro imports from UA.
Black rock CEO is really annoyed and says euroland should acknowledge reality.
Posted by: Josef Schweik | May 15 2025 13:23 utc | 18
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 12:31 utc | 5
Both sides, therefore, affirm how little incentivized they are to move toward each other in a negotiation, and Russia continues prosecuting its SMO.
I agree with Simplicius.
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-51225-more-talks-games-as
“I find it nearly pointless to split hairs over the incessant back and forth ‘negotiations’ charade because it’s all simple posturing from both sides, with each vying to outdo the other in the media in order to present the best face of ‘peace maker’ to their own respective allies.”
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | May 15 2025 13:27 utc | 19
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 13:12 utc | 14
Yes – except that Kiev and the Europeans don’t want to sign any document. Since Istanbul it’s been clear the only document the Russians will sign with them is Kiev’s instrument of surrender.
This will transition into some dumb sort of Cold War. I’m not sure that’s going to work for the European politicians. Too many people in Europe are too fed up with them.
Posted by: English Outsider | May 15 2025 13:28 utc | 20
Interesting. This indeed means that since the EUrocrats leak his ass as their daily bread, they wont move until he speaks. They can just gesticulate when high on coke but no more.
Posted by: Tom | May 15 2025 13:29 utc | 21
Regarding Narrative Management 101, the entire story shaping up right now in Istanbul is a repeat of the genre of story that occurred the day after the SMO commenced in February 2022: his hair practically on fire, Gen Milley hysterically blurted out that VVP “intended to take Kiev in 3 days,”
VVP had never made such a statement, but the faux narrative took root, got boosted in the Regime Media—and is *still* told about VVP’s revanchist intentions.
So the faux narrative gaining steam right now is that VVP chickened out and could not muster the courage to meet Zelensky face-to-face.
The sub-text of the faux narrative additionally is that VVP was so flagrantly *unserious* about the Istanbul talks that he disrespectfully sent the lowliest of low-lying cultural figures like Medinsky to beclown the august body ( /s ) of Ukrainian and American diplomats.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 13:30 utc | 22
Posted by: English Outsider | May 15 2025 12:24 utc | 2
Wonderful, accurate analysis, thanks.
Posted by: canuck | May 15 2025 13:33 utc | 23
In the link to the latest Simplicius Sitrep that I posted on #19, there is Fox interview with J.D. Vance.
It’s fun to watch. I look forward to Vance’s presidency.
He says that if these talks don’t show progress, Pres. Trump will walk away and leave the two belligerents to sort out things without American help.
Lol!
It’s almost as if he is saying to the Russians, go through the motions and then kill them all.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | May 15 2025 13:35 utc | 24
“Nothing will happen until Putin and I get together,” he told reporters aboard the presidential airplane on his way from Qatar to the UAE.
https://tass.com/world/1958439
Posted by: Newbie | May 15 2025 13:21 utc | 17
Putin is not coming, so what’s the point?
UA/EU: We demand ceasefire!
RF: Nyet, see you in 3 years.
In Ankara, the meeting between Erdogan and Zelensky has concluded, reports Anadolu Agency.The meeting lasted nearly 3 hours.
Zelensky promised to announce Ukraine’s position on negotiations with the Russian delegation following the meeting.Russian delegation to deliver press statement in Istanbul soon, reports TASS.
TASS source: Talks between Russia and Ukraine in Istanbul still possible
Posted by: 5thcolumn | May 15 2025 13:39 utc | 25
Posted by: English Outsider | May 15 2025 13:28 utc | 20
RE: Kiev and the Europeans don’t want to sign a document
<<
While in Riyadh, DJT gave his most ardently anti-neocon speech to date, a damning indictment of interventionism---the meddling in foreign lands of those who scarcely understand those lands.
Yesterday's thread addressed DJT's own hypocrisies in this regard, especially his strong-arming Iran right now.
One must wonder, though, about DJT's disenchantment w/ the continuing saga of Project Ukraine, the millstone around his neck which promises only to mire him in a morass-like bottomless pit without kicking back any *deliverables*
Making Europe happy by allowing them to continue money-grifting off of Project Ukraine can't be that tantalizing an outcome.
It is obvious, too, that the Time & Attention Project Ukraine requires has derailed the U.S.'s ability to turn its gaze toward China, w/ the objective of containing China and hemming it in and ultimately provoking it into an ankle-trap kind of war like the U.S. laid for Russia.
Even the tariff parley bit the dust.
So one wonders if DJT is going perfunctorily through the *motions* of manicuring & managing Project Ukraine without really caring much about it.
We saw the Purple Carpet in Riyadh, we saw the white Arabian stallions, we saw the camels in Qatar.
I think we know what trips DJT's trigger.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 13:46 utc | 26
🇺🇦🇺🇸 Ukrainian channel RezidentUA writes:
A source within the Ukrainian delegation in Turkey reports that Acting Foreign Minister Sybiga, during talks with U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, received a clear directive from the Trump administration: Kiev must enter full negotiations with Russia on all major points.
While Ukraine is primarily interested in a 30-day ceasefire, Washington insists on including it only as part of a comprehensive deal.
Posted by: Justpassinby | May 15 2025 13:47 utc | 27
They made a similar mistake a few years ago with HMS Defender and that’s why today they wait like losers in Turkey and no one is coming. Trumpy even started to make fun of them, said Putin has to meet him or nothing will change.
Posted by: rk | May 15 2025 13:18 utc | 15
trump did none of what you allege:
🇺🇸🇷🇺🇺🇦 Donald Trump stated that no meaningful progress on resolving the Ukraine conflict will happen until he holds a direct meeting with President Vladimir Putin.
Trump also made it clear that he is not disappointed by the level of the Russian delegation participating in the talks in Turkey. His stance stands in stark contrast to the narrative coming from Kiev and European capitals, where officials have dismissed the delegation’s composition as a sign that Moscow is not serious about negotiations.
and about the mighty defender, that fled once a russian shot at her. the less said the better, for british pride might falther.
Posted by: Justpassinby | May 15 2025 13:51 utc | 28
Posted by: Justpassinby | May 15 2025 13:51 utc | 28
You re correct, rk, like usual, is bullshitting.
Posted by: canuck | May 15 2025 13:53 utc | 29
Posted by: Tom | May 15 2025 13:29 utc | 21
RE: the Europeans can only gesticulate while high on coke
<<
It will take strong drugs and sex for them to get through this chaos.
Macron Dior seems to be the Procurer-in-Chief of both.
DJT, a non-user, sits atop the Project Ukraine family like a dry-drunk patriarch who keeps his underlings spinning through a chaos-mirage so thick they need the drugs and sex to cope.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 13:53 utc | 30
🇺🇸🇷🇺”Washington has supplemented its proposal to resolve the conflict in Ukraine with the idea of resuming the work of the Russia-NATO Council.” — Bloomberg
Posted by: Justpassinby | May 15 2025 13:56 utc | 31
Posted by: Justpassinby | May 15 2025 13:56 utc | 31
RE: the Russia-NATO Council
<<
The NATO-Russia Council (NRC) was established in 2002 as a mechanism for consultation, consensus-building, cooperation, joint decision making and joint action. Within the NRC, the individual NATO member states and Russia worked as equal partners on a wide spectrum of security issues of common interest.
VVP touched on the NATO-Russia Council in his sit-down back in February 2024.
It is certainly the case that most Americans are not aware of such an instrument for addressing Russia's concerns vis-a-vis NATO---but it is indicative of how the mind-set in 2002 was vastly different from the hostile one which predominated during the Obama White House now.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 14:08 utc | 32
Nota Bene:
VVP touched on the Russia-NATO council when he sat down *w/ Tucker* in February 2024.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 14:09 utc | 33
English Outsider@2…..there is a negotiated peace coming sooner than most realize, the second part of the SMO, to completely remove any NATO threat from 404 to Russia will not happen until 2052/53 or later. At present Russia is scrambling to grab as much territory as possible, in an “attrition war”, before their eyes are crossed and the dotted Ts are forced on them like it or not. Were Russia forced to, or capable of, taking the “war” Putin’s word, outside 404 then they may get to show off their Hazel Nut Stocks, until then, basically a unicorn weapon, definitely not scaring Whitehall.
Yes there is always the possibility of internal collapse in 404, like the USSR, or the Western Economy, like the Ukie army, there is always the possibility of collapse…..and all good predictions, outside the Law of Unforseen Consequences.
Cheers M
…..interesting, as posted here the other day, Putin has identified the “regime” as being the issue in 404, that was apparent from the sinking of the Moskov and routing the BSF from Crimea…..yet the only answer Russia has is to kill more grunts, hoping, praying that finally the 404 military collapses. We both know that is not happening any time soon as the FUKUS aggression against Russia is to contain and strangle slowly, no rush, Whitehall figures it’s got 100 years, do you think the Brits are bluffing?
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 15 2025 14:11 utc | 34
Russians bet on the clown circus performance, Russians got what they wanted.
Posted by: boneless | May 15 2025 14:14 utc | 35
So far the ‘negotiations’ continue to be nothing more than theater of the absurd with the losing side issuing various ultimatums. Nothing will be accomplished until they are ready to discuss terms of surrender.
Posted by: the pessimist | May 15 2025 14:15 utc | 36
It seems the US keeps prodding Ukraine.
Now Ukraine will send a working delegation.
RT live-reporting status – it’s like Fischer/Spasskey.
(Except they were both capable, I think.)
I wish they could mount a hamster-cam on Zelensky – this is good stuff.
May accidentally result in progress if they keep it up.
Posted by: jared | May 15 2025 14:17 utc | 37
Putin held a meeting of the Security Council that included the entire negotiating team to provide them with the most recent data and their marching orders. I still haven’t heard of Zelensky lifting his no negotiations edict.
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-51225-more-talks-games-as
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | May 15 2025 13:27 utc | 19
At that link, about 15% of the way down, in the first video of Putin greeting Xi, pausing for the translators,
I think it’s interesting to watch Putin’s eyes very carefully, as I haven’t seen him in this position exactly.
I think he displays a perfect culturally appropriate, beautifully sincere respect.
Posted by: bassplayer | May 15 2025 14:25 utc | 39
⚡️Zelensky announced that he is sending a delegation headed by Defense Minister Umerov to negotiate with Russia in Istanbul.
i am going to make an uneducated guess with one piece of information from last week (?), where the ukrainian channel with its insiders told us that the BRITISH were doing a work session with the ukrainian side on how to disrupt the current talks in turkye.
this is probably all this bullshit about “empty chairs” “putin afraid of elenskyiikyhj” and so on, and probably also the stalling (my bet is that they wanted the russians to leave).
now he folded, allegedly on behalf of the americans. starmer needs another bag of cocaine.
Posted by: Justpassinby | May 15 2025 14:25 utc | 40
You are delusional if you think AFU will be broken by 2026.
Even the more credible people who have analysed this war like the dude who’s always analysing suriakmap updates have said that the use of drones have made a “blitz” impossible.
A small localized collapse is possible. But the AFU won’t be broken even in 2027.
The war will end with a negotiated agreement where Ukraine jokes the EU with a functional military while Russia gets the 4 oblasts. Basically MINSK3.
The west won’t end support for Ukraine anytime soon. It’s in their interest to keep Ukraine independent and alive. Especially after minerals deal.
Posted by: Fit Rice | May 15 2025 14:27 utc | 41
It would be funny if Putin turned up in UAE for a sit down with Trump while all the NPCs cluck about in Turkey…
Posted by: ChatNPC | May 15 2025 14:37 utc | 42
Posted by: Fit Rice | May 15 2025 14:27 utc | 41
#######
The AFU has been broken since it smashed itself on Surovikin’s line.
These are the last available mercenaries, regular people press-ganged by kidnapping, and some fools from NATO.
Ukraine no longer has a proper military.
I don’t think the NATO Nazis could beat North Korea straight up.
The Russians won’t do it but 2 Oreshniks, one to Kiev and one to Lvov, and it’s all over.
Besides pissing down their legs, what can the Nazis do about that?
There is a decent chance this is over by Fall.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 15 2025 14:37 utc | 43
No one respects or believes in the fascist dictator of Ukraine except for Sir Keir and the MSM………….which really means no one of substance…
Volo is rapidly running out ammo and manpower (US has embargoed all new arms shipments because DJT detests Volo and believes, rightfully so, that Volo and the Vindman brothers engineered the first impeachment trial).
Any peace deal will only be consumated with the approval of VV and DJT, Volo is now a non entity, a hollowed out cartoon figure still playing the piano with a body organ…..so pathetic…
Posted by: tobias cole | May 15 2025 14:39 utc | 44
Posted by: rk | May 15 2025 13:18 utc | 15
Appeal to emotion. Not the way to win an argument.
Posted by: clement | May 15 2025 14:46 utc | 45
Posted by: bassplayer | May 15 2025 14:25 utc | 39
I think it’s interesting to watch Putin’s eyes very carefully, as I haven’t seen him in this position exactly.
I think he [Putin face to face with Xi] displays a perfect culturally appropriate, beautifully sincere respect.
Agree.
When I was in Shanghai on business last year, there was one young adjutant that took me to the airport at the end of the trip. He said he wanted to be a diplomat, represent China in international fora. I told him I couldn’t be a diplomat because by looking at my eyes any attentive observer would know what I was thinking. He said that was very much appreciated in Chinese culture. Putin’s sincere eyes could be a factor in these two giants good relationship.
Meanwhile here in Western Europe, we have these ambitious, vicious, insufferable mediocrities with shifty eyes and white-powdered noses.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | May 15 2025 14:52 utc | 46
The AFU has been broken since it smashed itself on Surovikin’s line.
There is a decent chance this is over by Fall.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 15 2025 14:37 utc | 43
“…it smashed itself on Surovikin’s line.” and didn’t retreat right away to the river
“over by Fall.” not if RF keeps a slow advance, seems like priority is reaching 2 million bayonets by new year
Posted by: Newbie | May 15 2025 15:06 utc | 47
“Some dumb sort of Cold War” as described by English Outsider is exactly what the talk of cold war has been from the start; the reasons given as justification for it (that all boil down to imagined “Russian aggression”) are vapid lies that the vast majority of ordinary people do not care for and don’t believe in.
To illustrate this point: unless one lives in some peculiar hell (like OldHippie does) each time you see an Ukrainian flag (if you see any at all) consider how many places you do not see them.
Another problem with their “dumb sort of Cold War” is that it hasn’t been a cold war at all but instead a hot proxy war with a very high level of involvement providing all the money and arms and some troops as well as all the intelligence and surveillance capabilities.
Even their sanctions are belligerent and in breach of UN rules.
The conclusion is that “the west” are utterly unable to run a lemonade stand/”dumb sort of Cold War” without tripping over themselves and getting hurt. Pretty pathetic.
The only real problem is western nukes. In the end it is (still) all they have. (I still keep fearing every summer and breathing out in relief when winter approaches; summer is by far the most likely time of use).
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | May 15 2025 15:13 utc | 48
What happened to German ultimatum to Russia. Cease fire by Monday night or sanctions.
Lot of drugged out mice who hallucinate they are tigers.
What happened to German ultimatum to Russia. Cease fire by Monday night or sanctions.
Lot of drugged out mice who hallucinate they are tigers.
@ Michael J | May 15 2025 15:17 utc | 49
It’s been “by end of this week” now. The optimism is almost commendable.
Posted by: boneless | May 15 2025 15:21 utc | 51
A reminder of what is perhaps not so obvious after all: minimizing the likelihood of escalation to any kind of nuclear war is a superb reason for Russia to advance with glacial slowness.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | May 15 2025 15:21 utc | 52
Posted by: tobias cole | May 15 2025 14:39 utc | 44
“Any peace deal will only be consummated with the approval of VV and DJT, …”
This is important for more than just peace in Ukraine.
The US and Russia have been flirting with each other since the days of Abe Lincoln and before. Their romance, however, has been frustrated by the Europeans, primarily the brits, who see Russia as, among other things, their own economic source needed to maintain their superiority over the rest of the planet. To the UK/EU, any effort that appears to lead to a Russias/US friendship is to be snuffed out.
So you have such things as the assassination of Lincoln, JFK, RFK, etc., and, more recently the attempted assassination of DT. On that score, the UK/EU biggees knew all along that DT, if elected, was going to make friendly moves on Russia. The event at Butler, PA was intended to prevent that from happening.
Now, however, the UK/EU is experiencing their worst nightmare – Putin and Trump are going to join hands and in the process, Trump will divorce (so to speak) the UK/EU
Posted by: Johnny Dollar | May 15 2025 15:32 utc | 53
elenskyijiijyiyi on twitter:
I had a good and productive meeting with President of Türkiye in Ankara. It focused on bringing peace closer and guaranteeing security.
I thank President Erdoğan and all of Türkiye for their support of our state, and for supporting all the real steps toward a full, unconditional ceasefire and true diplomacy. We will continue close coordination to ensure that negotiations are truly resultative. Today, Russia once again demonstrated that it does not intend to end the war, having sent a delegation of rather low-level representatives. Moreover, such a Russian approach is a sign of disrespect- toward the world and al partners. We expect a clear and strong response from partners.
at least he keeps his clown schtick going pretty convincingly. this statement reads like its been made in london. probably was.
Posted by: Justpassinby | May 15 2025 15:33 utc | 54
Russia is desperate and putin chickened out like everyone said he would. Russia has lost its place as being considered a world power now. Russia can’t even beat Ukraine in war.
Posted by: Big D | May 15 2025 15:38 utc | 55
There are claims that Hungary shot down two Ukr. drones – and is massing forces near their border. Then, we have Romania…
Realistically, how could they claim part of Ukraine or demand secession elections without being bounced out of NATO/EU? Maybe they claim persecution of their ethnic people there and establish a protectorate. Still, EU would scream and threaten expulsion. How could we wrap our heads around this idea? It could go along way towards ending Ukraine as a threat, especially if they don’t take Odessa
Posted by: Eighthman | May 15 2025 15:40 utc | 56
But Lula-?
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 12:31 utc | 5
Kinda funny how Brazil got awarded another nfl game 2 days ago. Right after Lula sounds pro west
Posted by: Feck | May 15 2025 15:44 utc | 57
I am convinced that nothing good will come out of Istanbul III for Russia. If the Russians have to go to war again in 10-15 years against Ukraine and a highly armed West, they will curse Putin.
Posted by: guest from franconia | May 15 2025 15:47 utc | 58
heh, i had a lucky shot in the dark:
🇺🇦 Ukrainian channel RezidentUA writes:
Our source in the delegation in Turkey reported that the Trump administration continues to insist on negotiations with the Russian delegation, otherwise they are threatening to withdraw from the Ukraine conflict resolution track. Andriy Yermak is currently holding talks with partners to formulate a position and resolve the situation. We have not yet refused the meeting, but by delaying it, we hope the Russians will leave on their own.
Posted by: Justpassinby | May 15 2025 15:56 utc | 59
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | May 15 2025 15:13 utc | 48
RE: the only real threat is western nukes
<<
The UK and France don’t have nukes capable of a decapitating strike; only the U.S. could attempt such a thing.
The U.S. is *not* going to launch a decapitation strike on Moscow over Project Ukraine.
Listen, I am not by any means downplaying a nuclear strike on Russia by either the UK, France or both: it would be appalling.
As appalling as such a thing would be, it would also be weak sauce in that such a thing cannot move the needle and can only result in a kind of impotence w/ The City turned to glass.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 16:06 utc | 60
It all comes down to:
Does Trump have the will and the ability to bring an end to US support for Ukraine?
Lindsay, would say “No”, I think.
Posted by: jared | May 15 2025 16:15 utc | 61
You know, there’s one thing I’ve always wondered. Maybe someone can explain it for me.
Why DOES the West hate Russia so much? Because a few of you have said that there is a multi-generational project to destroy and/or Balkanize Russia. Now part of that did track because I remember even when the SMO first started, a few Baltic leaders and even US politicians advocated for Russia to be broken up into like 10-15 smaller republics. I specifically remember a politician, forgot his name, standing in front of the proposed map and each had their own flag and name already. So the plan was to Yugoslavitize Russia and then install a Yeltsin in each republic and get back to looting and plundering like they did from 1990 onwards.
But why? And please, any of you, all of you, be as descriptive and thorough as you like…why does the West literally HATE Russia so much? Because that’s all it can be at this point. They just…they just can’t let him win. They just can’t. They can’t, they can’t, they can’t, they can’t, they can’t, and you can picture foot-stamping and pouting and balled fists while you read that. They can’t. He can’t win. Putin can’t win. Russia can’t win. Because fuck them, that’s why.
But where does this hatred come from?
Posted by: Stark | May 15 2025 16:22 utc | 62
Posted by: Feck | May 15 2025 15:44 utc | 57
RE: the NFL awarded Lula 2 games in Rio
<<
Didn't Jordan Love get injured in Brazil in Week 1 last year-? Was out for more than a month.
Look out for Lula
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 16:23 utc | 63
but by delaying it, we hope the Russians will leave on their own.
Posted by: Justpassinby | May 15 2025 15:56 utc | 59
Or a falseflag to derail the whole thing.
I wonder how, short of occupation, Russia could arrange to ensure that Ukraine will not ever join NATO.
Perhaps if the U.S. and Russia could form an alliance.
Posted by: jared | May 15 2025 16:25 utc | 65
This DTrump is a rudderless entity – first he wanted US-Russia talks, which happened with no result, then he pushed for direct Russia-Ukraine talks, which Russia offered and sent its negotiators to Istanbul, now he is claiming – nothing will happen until he and Putin sit down.
It would be hilarious if it was not so ugly and ludicrous.
Posted by: JB | May 15 2025 16:30 utc | 66
Trump wants “peace”.
The Eurotards want “war”.
Hellensky wants “cease-fire”.
Putin wants a “secure solution”.
None of them wants the same thing to begin with … why bother talking ?
Why do the western neocons all want to see VVP in Turkey ? To put a gun on his head and make him sign whatever they want ? It’s now clear they tried the trap in the trap in the trap … scheme. VVP knows that game better. And now they’ll gonna wait (in vain).
Time is not on neocon’s side to begin with.
Trump seems to mock them also singing “should I stay or should I go” … and let the morons ridicule themselves.
On the front, the banderast positions are more and more empty, the western weapons shelves are emptying out, the Russian ones are filling in , guess what the outcome will be ? If only US ISR link could be severed one way or another ;p ;p ;p.
Posted by: Savonarole | May 15 2025 16:31 utc | 67
To stark at 62.
Britain is deluding itself that it is a great empire and still playing “the Great Game”.
Pathetic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Game
Cheers Oldengineer
Posted by: Oldengineer | May 15 2025 16:40 utc | 68
Posted by: Stark | May 15 2025 16:22 utc | 62
RE: where does the U.S. hate for Russia come from-?
<<
In the weeks after 9-11 VVP gave the Bush jr permission to use one of Russia's near Caucasus airbases for its soon-to-happen assault on Afghanistan.
This was temporary.
In mid-November 2001, VVP was a guest of Bush jr's in Crawford, Texas. The guys cleared brush together and rode horses on Bush jr's ranch and they spoke together at a local high school. This is also when Bush jr looked into VVP's eyes and "saw his soul."
So the two leaders were forging a strong bond.
Note that VVP had had a good r'ship w/ Bush sr, even having visited Kennbunkport, the Bush family summer home.
But then the time was up for the U.S. air force to vacate Russia's near-Caucasus military base, and VVP gave notification. Angered, Condi Rice said the U.S. was supposed to become a permanent presence on Russia's airbase.
VVP said no.
An inconvenience like that and a *temporary* permission concluded is not a strong enough reason to foment hate toward Russia from the U.S. side.
But Bush jr stopped talking about VVP's eyes after that, let alone his soul.
The men in black suits w/ dark ties had paid Bush jr a visit and reminded him once again what The Directive actually was, just in case all that soul-gazing had caused Bush jr to "misremember."
And The Directive, unchanging regardless of who is in the White House, is to curb-stomp Russia, to regime-change Russia and to dismember Russia.
True *then,* true now.
It's not 'hate'---it's a Business Plan.
Gotta fear-monger the populace, however, in order to gin up an appetite for going to war w/ Russia, thus the media climate of Russophobia-on-steroids in the U.S.
Nota Bene: even if all that's left of Ukraine is a rumpstate around Lvov, the U.S. can still nonetheless implement The Directive, so it is not as if The Directive will get canceled should Russia force Ukraine to capitulate.
The U.S. can put The Directive on hold, but The Directive is ever The Directive.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 16:42 utc | 69
Posted by: jared | May 15 2025 16:25 utc | 65
RE: could the U.S. and Russia forge a bilateral alliance apart from NATO-?
<<
Why not-?
The U.S. and Russia can certainly engage in bilateral trade & negotiations.
But the NATO-Russia Council might serve as a road-map too.
The NRC was established at the NATO-Russia Summit in Rome on 28 May 2002 by the Declaration on “NATO-Russia Relations: a New Quality.”
It focused on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security. In other words, it boasted a foundational pragmatism. Such were the days---before Mrs. Nuland had performed a 'gain of function' technique on the still-fledgling Project Ukraine and greenlighted the neocons.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 17:03 utc | 70
…
But where does this hatred come from?
Posted by: Stark | May 15 2025 16:22 utc | 62
Jews.
They believe their own bullshit.☆
They harbour delusions of grandeur.
They own the Christian West’s politicians.
They wrote the Holy Bible i.e. all the names are jewish.
They despise everyone who’s not a jew and refer to them/us as cattle.
They think that if they see something then it belongs to them.
They make no distinction between truth and lies.☆
They’re brainwashed by their parents and “Elders” from infancy.
There’s plenty of stuff about jews on the www.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 15 2025 17:07 utc | 71
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 16:42 utc | 69
It’s not ‘hate’—it’s a Business Plan.
While it’s the Business Plan that drives things, the hate is real. It is fed to population to accept the Business Plan (or activities supporting it while not understanding the whole plan). And when it comes to European “elites” (the self-proclaimed technocrats), it seems that they are often on those narratives intended for general population.
Posted by: Sekava Seppo | May 15 2025 17:08 utc | 72
These farcical, absurd “negotiations” between Ukraine, Trump, Russia, and the miscreants in Congress/UK have to be the best example of “dead cat” diplomacy, ever.
Dead cat diplomacy is when rather than trying to reach an agreement, both parties maneuver to leave a “dead cat” at the other party’s door. Then, the can scream “Look! He killed muh cat!”
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 15 2025 17:12 utc | 73
Where does the Hate come from ?
A cetain ethnic group in the west has a feverish bloodlust against Russian Christians. Its a mania with this ethnic group.
Posted by: Exile | May 15 2025 17:17 utc | 74
Posted by: Big D | May 15 2025 15:38 utc | 55
——————-
Encore un idiot qui vient déposer sa crotte…
Posted by: scc | May 15 2025 17:25 utc | 75
Zelensky poured scorn on the Russian delegation led by Vladimir Medinsky, the former culture minister, as “low-level” and “decorative,” but DJT resolutely refused to issue even the mildest criticism of VVP. “I’m not disappointed,” DJT said. “Why would I be disappointed? Nothing’s going to happen until Putin and I get together, okay!”
A headline in the Telegraph was sharply critical of VVP—“Putin’s No-Show Is No Surprise To Anyone”
The author Lisa Hseldine claimed that “Putin is a master of rhetoric: he is prone to neither gaffes, verbal slip-ups or self-incriminating statements. If he had any intention of traveling to Istanbul, he would have said so.”
The idea that the Russian President *might* attend – or feel compelled to – was first planted by Zelensky, who, in an effort to crank up the pressure on the discussions – and curry favor with the conflict’s fickle umpire DJT – declared that he would be traveling to Istanbul himself for the talks. Throwing down the gauntlet, Zelensky said, “I am waiting for Putin in Turkeye.”
Look, the fact is simply this: as with all manner of bilateral agreements – made in peacetime or in war – most of the actual detail is hashed out by teams representing each country. The heads of state really usually come together right at the end to sign on the dotted line.
This was true most recently when the U.S. requested a meeting about tariffs with China. The teams, headed by Sec Bessent and his counterpart from China, met in Switzerland to haggle & wrangle. It was bogus of Zelensky to sit waiting for VVP in Turkey, perhaps jiggling his foot impatiently and occasionally dusting his nose.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 17:30 utc | 76
Posted by Stark| May 15 202516:22 utc
Re: where does all the hate for Russia come from?
Anti-communism. The US is/was determined to never allow an example of a successful socialist country. Europe is paid to keep it that way. Richard Wolff did a little video about it, Germany Rearms https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NOmwcFk4JCo
Posted by: Whistlin | May 15 2025 17:32 utc | 77
Posted by: Fit Rice | May 15 2025 14:27 utc | 41
The west has nearly nothing left to support Ukraine by now.
Posted by: Mario | May 15 2025 17:33 utc | 78
The US can’t win a regular war, but it is top notch at winning PR wars.
This is because the US controls the Mighty Wurlitzer of propaganda, the dominant world media.
They control the public narrative. As Maria Zakharova testified in 2014, John Kerry bragged to her that Russia could never get its side told in the media. Russia would be kept on mute. The US would say whatever they wanted, and most of the world would believe it.
Last week the cocaine clowns got together and demanded an immediate ceasefire. The media broadcast their demand, ignoring the fact that when they issued it, Russia was already observing a ceasefire that Ukraine was ignoring.
That is power.
Trump then jumped in, again demanding an end to the war, while ignoring the fact that if the US withdrew support, the war would be over quickly. This is although he knows that to be true, because he said it last year. The media, which uniformly hates Trump, refuse to point this out, since in Ukraine, he is playing their song.
Russia responded with a master move, for a player figuratively handcuffed and shackled by lack of access to the narrative control.
Putin called a midnight presser and announced “unconditional” negotiations, using the same word as the manipulators used when calling for an unconditional ceasefire.
What to do? I picture the PR generals gathered around the map of propaganda, arguing over the next attack.
Putin called for negotiations in 5 days, leaving only 4 days to shape the narrative battlefield.
The west used blitzkrieg tactics, saturating all devices with the narrative that Putin was coming to Istanbul, then having Zelensky announce that he would go to Istanbul to meet with Putin.
Even people on this forum fell for the narrative, arguing about whether or not Putin would show.
Mission accomplished! The empty chair is dominating the “news” and the west has successfully convinced their publics that it is totally normal for heads of state to attend negotiations (remember when Nixon and Theiu showed up in Paris to argue about the shape of the table?), and since Putin didn’t show, that means Ukraine wins.
And that is the level of understanding they want to keep us plebes at. Like I said, mission accomplished.
Posted by: wagelaborer | May 15 2025 17:34 utc | 79
Posted by: Sekava Seppo | May 15 2025 17:08 utc | 72
RE: U.S. Russophobia hails from propaganda saturation
I question how *real* Russophobia is when it is not tangibly based in any physical reality (in other words, any blatant or actual acts or events.)
Russophobia is a necessary component of the Business Plan, which underpins The Directive. Like with other instances of psy-op level propaganda saturation, Russophobia does not have to be derived from *real hate* as a result of *real events* in order to be a persuasive factor in the political & media ecosystem of the U.S.
Remember: it’s irrational, totally used for manipulative purposes only: mind-control of the populace
Iran receives the same treatment, as do North Korea and China.
Look on a map and notice where the U.S. *does not* have military bases or military permissions. Those places are subject to the same sort of treatment Russia, Iran, North Korea & China receive.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 17:40 utc | 80
Posted by: wagelaborer | May 15 2025 17:34 utc | 79
RE: mission accomplished–ukraine wins the PR war
<<
Except...the negotiation will have to hang-fire until tomorrow. Which means The Empty Chair gets nullified.
DJT was impressed enough w/ VVP's negotiating team that he *forced* Zelensky to stop grand-standing and wasting time and to form up a negotiating team, stat.
That took a while, so unprepared was Zelensky for anything but a media stunt.
Which means the actual discussions get punted to tomorrow.
Who is playing 3-D chess now (as well as solving a Rubik's Cube w/ his toes )-?
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 17:46 utc | 81
Speaking on Air Force One, Trump made a good point: “Why would Putin go to Istanbul if I’m not there?”
In other words, DJT quickly normalized the fact that VVP sent his negotiating team for these talks in Istanbul.
He also disrespected Zelensky: why *would* VVP meet face-to-face w/ Zelensky when DJT is the straw that stirs the drink in Project Ukraine-?
Ouch.
“It’s my assessment that I don’t think we’re going to have a breakthrough here until the President (Trump) and President Putin interact directly on this topic,” Sec Rubio said in Antalya, Turkeye.
He said the best chance of a breakthrough would happen in a meeting between DJT and VVP.
Alpha dogs know when another alpha dog is in the room. We’re getting a geopolitical Object Lesson in this.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 17:54 utc | 82
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 16:42 utc | 69
It’s not ‘hate’—it’s a Business Plan.
It is a business plan and hate by the many neocons with roots in Eastern Europe.
You might find this old – 2006 ¡¡¡- article interesting
https://www.rg.ru/2006/12/22/gosbezopasnostj-podsoznanie.html
First of all, we found a pathological hatred of Slavs in Madame Albright’s thoughts. She was also outraged by the fact that Russia has the largest mineral reserves in the world. In her opinion, in the future, Russian reserves should be managed not by one country, but by the whole of humanity under the supervision, of course, of the United States. And she saw the war in Kosovo only as the first step towards establishing control over Russia.
Posted by: Paco | May 15 2025 17:59 utc | 83
“Your papers, please”
The Security Service conducts security measures in Lviv. They will last from May 15 to May 18. In addition to the SBU, they include the National Police, the Military Law Enforcement Service and the National Guard
This was reported by the SBU Department in the Lviv region, reports RegioNews .
It is noted that the actions of law enforcement officers will cover the entire city. Security measures are carried out taking into account the legal regime of martial law.
” The goal is to prevent and neutralize threats of intelligence and subversive activities against our state and increase the security of citizens in the context of Russian armed aggression against Ukraine,” the report says.
During the conduct of counterintelligence activities, there may be::
restriction of passage and passage on streets;
checking citizens ‘ documents and inspecting cars;
The territory and common areas are also inspected to identify prohibited items.
The SBU asks citizens to understand possible inconveniences and properly respond to legal actions and demands of law enforcement officers. Also, Ukrainians are reminded to have their identity documents with them and observe the curfew regime.
https://regionews.ua/ukr/news/lvovshchina/1747321478-u-lvovi-sbu-posileno-pereviryae-lyudey-ta-avtivki-shcho-stalosya (via translation add-on.)
Still, it’s all in the name of defending freedom and democracy (and chocolate cupcakes – let’s see if anyone gets that obscure reference), or so I am told, so everything is obviously fine and dandy, and a security clampdown is just part of normal daily life in Ukraine, yes?
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | May 15 2025 18:04 utc | 84
@55
Russian isn’t beating Ukraine, they’re beating NATO.
Posted by: Fred777 | May 15 2025 18:05 utc | 85
“First of all, we found a pathological hatred of Slavs in Madame Albright’s thoughts. She was also outraged by the fact that Russia has the largest mineral reserves in the world.”
Posted by: Paco | May 15 2025 17:59 utc | 83
The west doesn’t hate Russia. The west hates that Russia has wealth, and periodically the west gets up an army and tries to take Russia’s wealth.
The collective west are a bunch of murdering, looting pirates. Russia is their target.
Nothing personal, just pirate business.
Posted by: wagelaborer | May 15 2025 18:07 utc | 86
re: Lula’s second trip to Russia
Lula is only president now because the US allowed him an early release from prison (over the Car Wash bribery scandal, which the US itself engineered). Lula himself knows that at one word from the US, he is right back inside.
I think the US intends to use Lula as a sort of disruptive ace in the hole regarding BRICS. This ace has been played in this instance to try to spare the US any embarrassment over Putin’s masterful check move with the calling for direct negotiations. Lula’s recent trip to China may represent an effort on his part to get out from under the US’s thumb; best of luck to him.
Posted by: robjira | May 15 2025 18:07 utc | 87
Speaking on Air Force One, Trump made a good point: “Why would Putin go to Istanbul if I’m not there?”
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 17:54 utc | 82
DTrump did not make a good point – Putin did not go to Istanbul because negotiations are not conducted by heads of state but by negotiating delegations. Heads of state appear at the end of a successful process to sign the negotiated agreement that is document.
DTrump, beside being ignorant and arrogant, always bends things his way, making himself central when he is not.
The ignorance about how states operate and how diplomacy and negotiations are conducted is widespread only because ignorance has been accepted as standard.
It is particularly evident in the MSM, the big lie media, where headlines today are emphasizing that Putin “backed out”, did not show, and the like, totally misleading and misinforming the public while perpetuating hostility to Russia.
It would be for the common good if people commenting on MoA avoided spreading misinformation.
Posted by: JB | May 15 2025 18:15 utc | 88
Steel_porcupine ( May 15 2025 16:06 utc | 60 ):
You are intelligent, sensible, and rational. You might know what I am going to say next 🙂
The people in charge (whoever that really is) have chosen puppets that are clowns on coke compromised up the wazoo with God knows what.
Thus I can’t feel any confidence in any other decisions or choices they might take/make and I regard the whole business they started many years ago over Ukraine to be insane in every way unless their primary aim is to destroy Europe in which it could make sense, but if that really is the aim then they would love to use as many nukes as they can…
I don’t blame you in any way for thinking as you do but I have to disagree on your conclusion 😀
· · · · · · · · · · · ·
Stark ( May 15 2025 16:22 utc | 62 ):
1. Ordinary people don’t hate Russia in the slightest unless propagandized into it and/or joining what amounts to weirdo cults.
With cults I’m thinking of for example some of the ex-“Ukrainians” in the west, the kind that walk/march with flags and hold appeals —both completely ignored by anyone else that happens to be around as far as I can tell (except me who curse to myself, walk away, and/or look away in disgust and opposition).
2. The “elites”/”Powers That Be” and their puppets hate not only Russia but everything they want but don’t have or even that which they do have such as “their” populations. Most likely it is due to each of them being mental and deficient (no different than nazi and zionist “leaders” and so on).
· · · · · · · · · · · ·
Savonarole ( May 15 2025 16:31 utc | 67 ):
The mere idea of talks can be used as a deconflicting and deescalation measure. Propaganda too of course. These things apply even when no one wants the same thing and everyone knows nothing will move forward.
It may also help grow or maintain any kind of positive familiarity, or in case that is farfetched it at least allows for it to occur at some point, perhaps in the far future.
It forces the parties to listen to themselves speak, and might also force them to construct and explain their arguments and reasoning, including to themselves and on the record.
· · · · · · · · · · · ·
I used to be an anti-communist and still sort of am since I am now anti-ideological meaning I don’t put much stake in any ideology or dogma and so on. To me they’re all basically in the end mind-killers —and worse— no matter how benign they start out or portray themselves or whatever parts/issues they might get right.
Never was any hate in it for me and I didn’t see that in anyone I knew either. Did see it in some I didn’t really know and who wanted me dead because they were nazi extremists, and also saw it in some very vocal communists (fake or real) but not all (some of it was justified). Plenty of fear and/or worry though, concern and vulnerability.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | May 15 2025 18:19 utc | 89
https://www.flightradar24.com/3a5914f2
Sigonella P8 ISR on the Black Sea beat, I think there’s a Romanian Air Force one as well but it’s just gone dark.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | May 15 2025 18:21 utc | 90
Further to Posted by: JB | May 15 2025 18:15 utc | 88
Here is an example from the deplorable AlJazeera:
Headline: Could EU tariffs against Russia bring a ceasefire for Ukraine?
Subheading: As Vladimir Putin rejects Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s proposal for a face-to-face meeting, the EU is readying penalties.
Exc: Ukrainian and Russian representatives are convening today in Istanbul, Turkiye. However, Vladimir Putin will not travel to Istanbul for face-to-face talks with Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/5/15/could-eu-tariffs-against-russia-bring-a-ceasefire-for-ukraine
Posted by: JB | May 15 2025 18:23 utc | 91
Jeremy Rhymings-Lang ( May 15 2025 18:04 utc | 84 ):
Not convinced it was chocolate, maybe hashish? Anyway Maidan etc.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | May 15 2025 18:28 utc | 92
Posted by: Paco | May 15 2025 17:59 utc | 83
RE: necons w/ roots in eastern Europe
>>
Man, that sounds like a neocon Business Plan drenched in plenty of propaganda saturation. Remember: the hate is a means of manipulating the populace in order to Manufacture Consent for curb-stomping Russia, regime-changing Russia, dismembering Russia.
Yugoslavia was the template, right out of the Strobe Talbot playbook. In fact, Yugoslavia *became* the playbook
Alas Madame Albright is no longer w/ us.
Neocons of her ilk are aging out fast (if not already pushing up daisies.)
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 18:36 utc | 93
Today, in Istanbul, we had The Empty Chair.
Tomorrow, in Istanbul, we’ll have the piano.
Sans piano bench, of course.
Medinsky, gesturing to the piano, “Ah, Volodomyr, since you’re here… Care to tickle the ivories-? C’mon, show us what you’re working with.”
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 18:39 utc | 94
@ JB
DTrump did not make a good point – Putin did not go to Istanbul because negotiations are not conducted by heads of state but by negotiating delegations. Heads of state appear at the end of a successful process to sign the negotiated agreement that is document.
DTrump, beside being ignorant and arrogant, always bends things his way, making himself central when he is not.
The ignorance about how states operate and how diplomacy and negotiations are conducted is widespread only because ignorance has been accepted as standard.
It is particularly evident in the MSM, the big lie media, where headlines today are emphasizing that Putin “backed out”, did not show, and the like, totally misleading and misinforming the public while perpetuating hostility to Russia.
It would be for the common good if people commenting on MoA avoided spreading misinformation.
_____________
Holy shit, you OMB types are eaten up with the dumbass.
The point of the Trump statement was to cut Zelensky, the Euros, the neocons, and the media off at the knees. They were working hard in setting up this narrative that Zelensky was serious about peace and man enough to show up for these talks while Putin was too cowardly to come and not serious. Then they would use that to continue propping up Zelensky and Ukraine while supporting the war.
Trump shut down that nonsense with one offhand statement.
Posted by: CullenBaker | May 15 2025 18:44 utc | 95
Wasn’t “Volodya’s Istanbul Odyssey” an Ilf and Petrov novel?
Posted by: kvp | May 15 2025 18:44 utc | 96
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 18:36 utc | 93
They were close to achieve their goal, and that is why they hate Putin so much since with a lot of luck he managed to spoil their plan, at a huge cost though. The US elites will always hate Russia, the US populace not so much, deep inside there is a bit of respect and envy, the largest country, first in space, defeated Germany and they do not accept orders.
Posted by: Paco | May 15 2025 18:45 utc | 97
But where does this hatred of Russia come from?
Posted by: Stark | May 15 2025 16:22 utc | 62
You underestimate three things..
a) How humans are dumb and drown in GROUPTHINK.
b) The true power of framing and narratives that come out of the box in your living room , the radio in your kitchen and the newsprint and social media algorithms.
c) What’s taught in education camps from the age of 5.
You have been brainwashed several times in your life. That is a 100% guarentee.
I know I was. It is how you break free from it that counts but first you have to admit to yourself that you were actually dumber than a bag of spanners.
Just think what you thought you knew was certain when you were 20. When you look back at that kid of 20 when you are 30 and you realise how little you did know.
You look back at that young man of 30 when you are 40 and so on and so on.
However, you try and get an ideologue to look in a mirror or take any responsibility for their actions and how they voted over the years. Well it’s always somebody else’s fault the way things turned out.
Isn’t it ?
Immigrants, anybody with a different skin colour, sexual preference, religion, a different view point the list is endless.
Apart from looking in the mirror and taking a long hard look at oneself.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | May 15 2025 18:48 utc | 98
Posted by: Paco | May 15 2025 18:45 utc | 97
RE: American people, beyond the Russophobic elites, respect Russia
<<
Foundational U.S. literature of the 20th Century, especially in the development of the American short story would not have been possible had Flannery O'Connor not read Chekhov's short stories in translation, absorbed the extraordinary *instructions* Chekhov left behind for a writer like O'Connor to incorporate into her work.
Flannery O'Connor transmitted Chekhov's *instructions* to Joyce Carol Oates, who further institutionalized the American short story after O'Connor.
No Chekhov-? No renaissance in the American short story.
Both O'Connor and Joyce Carol Oates 'made good on' the promise of Edgar Allan Poe---but Chekhov's work was necessary in order to do this.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 18:52 utc | 99
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 18:52 utc | 99
RE: neocons cannot kill the cultural transfer, Russia-to-the-U.S.
As much as this transfer has happened in American literature, one needs to look @ the visual art of the 19th Century and what a *happening* was occurring in Russia: a !-Boom-!
Ditto in classical music.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | May 15 2025 18:57 utc | 100