You gotta love the Guardian. The paper is like a dithering old woman that changes her opinion like she changes outfits. They were scandalized by Trump’s tariffs and now they chide him for backing off.
“Trump might claim China tariff victory – but this is Capitulation Day
Heather Stewart
Economics editor”
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | May 12 2025 15:03 utc | 104
If trump dropped fentanyl 20% ad it’s a 10% vs 10%… yes, Capitulation sounds about right

Posted by: Newbie | May 12 2025 15:08 utc | 104

Posted by: Newbie | May 12 2025 14:49 utc | 102
Funny because the DEA complaint was that PRC based chemical supply companies would sell ether to companies in Mexico without doing DEA compliance on sales of ‘precursor’ chemicals. Total bullshit. Ether is not hard to make. Like a person who barely passed high school chemistry would have no problem making it.

Posted by: Badjoke | May 12 2025 15:19 utc | 106

The joke of it is, fentanyl doesn’t come from China.
Fentanyl, like COVID, has US origins.
If Japan or India occupied China’s economic position, they would be blamed for these things.
Empires cannot self-correct or have accountability.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 12 2025 15:34 utc | 108

Posted by: jinn | May 11 2025 23:17 utc | 60 The requirement that only personal experience justifies making positive statements about the economy is like saying only businessmen are qualified to make policy decisions. We’ve seen how that works. Now I did not make note cards but I have repeatedly seen graphs, tables and direct statements from a wide range of schools about multiple examples of business crises. The consensus in economic history is that unemployment, even drops in wages, generally follow. Your underconsumptionist thesis is worse than assuming what came before caused what came after, you’re assuming the later effect was the, what?, retrocausal? Better to think a decline in profit leads to a decline in investment, which leads to a decline growth…and weaker firms go under, then unemployment goes up. Your version, where unemployment goes up, then growth ceases, not the common case so far as I know.
Another argument against underconsumptionism causing crisis is that, the stagnation of real wages over decades are also underconsumption. But that hasn’t caused stagnation in GDP. Nor is it clear why the persistent underconsumption somehow only cause crises sometimes? But if the outbreak is caused randomly, how can the business cycle nevertheless be partly cyclical at all? (Roughly seven to ten years.) On top of all that, an astonishing amount economic activity is intermediate goods, businesses buying from businesses to produce. All commercial and industrial building is this kind of intermediate good. Yes, unemployment drops final consumption immediately—but how fast does unemployment lowering toilet paper consumption lead to not building a new paper plant? By the way, your graph purporting to show the underconsumptionist origins of the crisis in 2008 because of underconsumption? It also shows relatively high levels of unemployment and sharply rising price levels in year 2010. You claim a relatively small rise in unemployment crashed the economy/price level in 2008, which is fine by itself. But to also claim a high level of unemployment that changes very little is also compatible with a sharp rise in activity/price level? The question seems to be, how are these two things even correlated, if they are? And the conclusion that one causes the other is unwarranted.
The video started off with some useless, therefore boring, review of positive and negative economic coverage, rather than any issue of substance, therefore interest. Didn’t finish it.
Posted by: Debsisdead | May 12 2025 0:50 utc | 68 The actual figures I’ve seen suggest that there are deflationary pressures in much wider sectors of PRC economy. I do believe this poses problems for the profitability of the capitalist sphere. I think the real issue is that PRC is not a genuinely capitalist economy, because the capitalist sphere does not predominate, especially not politically—but not even economically. The comparisons to the US are not really relevant, it’s just another dumb partisan hack. It was Bush, with his TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) who set the pattern even before the election. As I recall they shook hands on it! I remember my outrage that people could still vote for Obama, after he proved he was every bit as depraved and despicable as Bush. It was no surprise when Barack Too Tan for the Klan Obama had no problem with Black Africans being sold into slavery in the opening days of the Libyan operation. But lying about my opinion of Obama is good enough for a faker stooging for Republicans. My advice is simple enough, if all you can see are dims, quite looking in the mirror.
It is to be expected this living tribute to mommy’s morals and daddy’s brains would lie about me personally. But the retread anti-Communist propaganda, which this commenter may have learned from J.Edgar Hoover may confuse some. Although I have never claimed to be a Stalinist, unless despising Trotskyite wreckers makes you one, I do know several things. First, Stalin was not the Pope of Marxism. Thus, if you want to study the Communist understanding of fascism, you study Dimitroff. Second, Bukharin was head of the Comintern when the Third Period theses were advanced, including social fascism. You simply cannot assume that everything said under Bukharin was what Stalin thought. Third, the thesis social democracy=fascism, is rather hard to square with the Popular Front policy or with the repeated attempts at a collective security pact with the bourgeois democratic imperialists against fascist Germany.

Posted by: steven t johnson | May 12 2025 15:41 utc | 110

I love this bar. Drinks could be a bit cheaper, though.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 12 2025 16:09 utc | 112
Huuuuge discounts soon!
Make MoA great bargain again!

Posted by: Newbie | May 12 2025 16:44 utc | 112

It looks like the USA is playing “shadow fleet” games now.

China Rejects 300,000 Tons of Soybeans from Argentina | Because Its Origin is the United States!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxDMpVlAUAg&t=3s

Posted by: Norwegian | May 12 2025 17:17 utc | 114

The interim US-China trade deal represents surrender by the Trump administration. From the “mother of all tariffs” to a damp squib after Trump understood that China would not back down and the US store shelves would soon empty, US factories start to shut down, and US prices rise.
China can easily deal with a 30% tariff on its exports to the US, and keeps its 10% tariff on US imports to China. It will continue to replace US and Western high-tech goods with domestically-produced ones. It will also slowly but surely squeeze out US agricultural and fossil fuel imports. US brands have also taken a long-term hit from this within China. China will also continue to diversify its exports to reduce its small dependence on the US even more. Two thirds of the 30% tariff is a “fentanyl” component which is utter BS to try to hide some of Trump’s embarrassment.
The prestige and legitimacy of the Chinese Party-state will be greatly enhanced both at home and abroad, as it forced the US to blink first. The weakness of the US will be fully understood. The biggest loser? The EU that still has to negotiate its trade terms and has been unable to fully move on from its self-defeating anti-Russian and anti-China mindset.
In the next 90 days if China comes up with a “fentanyl plan” the 30% may even drop to 10%. By the end of Trump’s term the US trade deficit with China will be bigger.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyg2939ej2o

Posted by: Roger Boyd | May 12 2025 17:27 utc | 116

Ray McGovern & John Helmer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT5BLpZDr7o
“The US position on Russia, Iran and China. Enemies or Frenemies?”

Posted by: JohnGilberts | May 12 2025 18:12 utc | 118

Test post

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | May 12 2025 19:30 utc | 120

People think the stock market is a scoreboard for the economy. It’s not. It’s a siphon.
Its real function is to drain value from the real economy and funnel it upward — through debt, compound interest, and asset inflation that always outpace actual production.
China’s market is flat because the CPC blocks this logic.
Finance is state-controlled, speculation is contained, and capital forced to serve development, not inflate itself.

https://x.com/upholdreality/status/1921783753149472877

Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 12 2025 20:08 utc | 122

Interesting post psychohistorian, and follow up by karlof1. I’ll look for that book. (posts #56 and #59.)

Posted by: Formerly Miss Lacy | May 12 2025 23:15 utc | 124

Your underconsumptionist thesis is worse than assuming what came before caused what came after, you’re assuming the later effect was the, what?, retrocausal?
Better to think a decline in profit leads to a decline in investment, which leads to a decline growth…and weaker firms go under, then unemployment goes up. Your version, where unemployment goes up, then growth ceases, not the common case so far as I know.
Posted by: steven t johnson | May 12 2025 15:41 utc | 111
You are thinking just like the people who run the businesses, governments, news media and financial institutions of the Western world.
You believe as they do that deflation is a sign of economic decline.
You claimed that deflation causes unemployment. I presented data that shows that story is counterfactual. In 2007 unemployment started rising which indicated the economy was already in decline, but prices continued to rise substantially for another year.
I don’t claim deflation causes anything other than falling prices which is what deflation is by definition. I don’t have a “version” of your story so please don’t try to create one for me.
Westerners have been indoctrinated to believe that deflation is a sign of economic collapse and thus when they think deflation is upon them they respond by curtailing consumption to save for hard times to come. In an economy that is 70% consumption this decline in consumption causes the economic decline that the population expects.
Its not that way everywhere. There are places like China where people don’t think the sky is falling if prices go down and thus they have a booming economy with deflation.
The video that you refuse to watch provides good evidence that your thinking is wrong.

Posted by: jinn | May 13 2025 0:12 utc | 126

🚨🇷🇺 Over 150 countries have been invited to a security conference in Moscow, scheduled for May 27–29, 2025, and chaired by Russian Security Council Secretary Sergei Shoigu.
Invited nations include members of the CIS, CSTO, EAEU, and SCO, as well as representatives from more than 20 international organizations.
The Russian Security Council highlighted that the forum aims to facilitate discussions on global security, enhance cooperation among partner states, and address challenges such as international terrorism, extremism, transnational crime, drug trafficking, and emerging threats.

1-minute video in Russian.
https://x.com/apocalypseos/status/1921743828354322633
Clearly, Russia is winning the diplomatic competition.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 13 2025 0:21 utc | 128

The Register has a good posting up with the title
US Copyright Office found AI companies sometimes breach copyright. Next day its boss was fired
quote

The head of the US Copyright Office has reportedly been fired, the day after agency concluded that builders of AI models use of copyrighted material went beyond existing doctrines of fair use.
The office’s opinion on fair use came in a draft of the third part of its report on copyright and artificial intelligence. The first part considered digital replicas and the second tackled whether it is possible to copyright the output of generative AI.
The office published the draft [PDF] of Part 3, which addresses the use of copyrighted works in the development of generative AI systems, on May 9th.
The draft notes that generative AI systems “draw on massive troves of data, including copyrighted works” and asks: “Do any of the acts involved require the copyright owners’ consent or compensation?”
…[from the report]

When a model is deployed for purposes such as analysis or research… the outputs are unlikely to substitute for expressive works used in training. But making commercial use of vast troves of copyrighted works to produce expressive content that competes with them in existing markets, especially where this is accomplished through illegal access, goes beyond established fair use boundaries.

I believe in the concept of intellectual property but that it is poorly implemented/managed….copyrights should not go forever and inventions need to happen in a more open economic environment but have compensation limited is the short version of my position

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 13 2025 2:32 utc | 130

I posted the following on Craig Murray’s blog this morning but I forgot I was banned there. Perhaps he reads MoA.
But it is already becoming harder to access true news from Gaza. Fewer images are available as the murder of countless citizen journalists and the throttling of internet in Gaza takes effect.
I am currently in the Philippines working with a Romanian woman in the Netherlands who has contacts in Gaza. We are trying to put them on a WeChat group so that they can send video clips directly from their phones to ours. I have two so far. They are desperately short of food and cash. I have been able to get money through a bank in Ramallah, they can access digitally.
Here is a post I put up on Substack a week ago to explain what we are doing. Unfortunately internet contact there is poor but if I can get sufficient material I will post it next Sunday.
https://waltking.substack.com/p/eyeless-in-gaza
There is a short video there concentrating on Gaza children I filmed in the Aida refugee camp in Bethlehem in 2019. Only 15 minutes.

Posted by: Walt | May 13 2025 2:52 utc | 132

Posted by: Newbie | May 12 2025 15:41 utc | 110
Meanwhile… Modi is boasting live o tv
Paki’s also seem pleased
Any serious assessment?
————
Well, Trump completely embarrassed Modi and destroyed 50 years of India’s foreign policy by taking credit for ‘bringing peace’ and generously offering to solve the Kashmir issue once and for all for those naughty kids… Santa’s got lotsa trade candies for you if you behave… Modi’s tough-guy image is in tatters because he is seen to have caved to US pressure to cease and desist — so much so that India now has to retaliate to the Trump tariffs and pretend that they too are China. The predictably failed war on terror will go on. Meanwhile the bankrupt state of Pakistan might be granted the opportunity to be USA’s bitch once more (though whether this is actually compatible with simultaneously being China’s bitch is another conundrum for ‘Islamo’fascist Asif Muinir, the mirror image of ‘Hindu’fascist Modi).
I kind of enjoyed this dialog (even keeping a neutral stance on the ideological commitments of the participants):
https://www.youtube.com/live/sR6TGjp3Tu0?si=eQvI2uuNVBkZfo4D

Posted by: WetNoodle | May 13 2025 6:44 utc | 134

110 Newbie “Meanwhile… Modi is boasting live on tv
Paki’s also seem pleased
Any serious assessment?”
Very interesting analysis of geopolitical ramifications of recent India/Pakistan confrontation by John Helmer on Dialogue Works,
“The US position on Russia, Iran and China. Enemies or Frenemies?”

Posted by: Lavieja | May 13 2025 7:54 utc | 136

The only difference between Macron and Trump is that Trump does not need coke to be high 24/7. With more than a century of psy and neuro research, it looks like journalists, unlike courts, are not able to use any analytical skills in this regard.

Posted by: Tom | May 13 2025 9:12 utc | 138

@all who replied, thank you
Some of those things I had seen and are predictive of future conflicts, next time navy, next next or something likely go nuclear .
It is a common theme of XXIst century, nuclear deterrence does not seem to deter anymore.
But still didn’t understand “who won”
And worse , can’t make head or tail of current tendencies in both countries, it’s anyone’s guess what direction modi is heading, and even the Pakistani military seems a bit in a flow of what they’re trying to achieve or heading…
Classic alignments seem to be gone and new ones unclear …

Posted by: Newbie | May 13 2025 12:49 utc | 140

A friend just sent me this link and titled the message Crypto Colonialism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AUfSyeN8aU&t=724s
The raping of Puerto Rico none see.

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 13 2025 14:48 utc | 142

Posted by: jinn | May 13 2025 0:12 utc | 128 The part of my comment you quote doesn’t mention deflation at all. Then you ignore this to misrepresent me as saying deflation causes unemployment! Selling goods for less money tends to lower profits. That’s the only reason I’ve offered to connect deflation to unemployment. A sector like consumer electronics has had fairly consistent price deflation over recent decades, and very few people see much problem with that…except perhaps for the people who owned Casio or Atari or Texas Instruments or even IBM, which isn’t what it once was. I do not think that corporations losing market share or even going bust is necessarily a bad thing, especially not in a basically socialist economy. But in a capitalist economy, I still say it tends to lead to unemployment. Maybe the economists’ ideal case of frictional unemployment, where the workers just go on to the rising firms, but still unemployment. Nothing you’ve cited refutes this.

Westerners have been indoctrinated to believe that deflation is a sign of economic collapse and thus when they think deflation is upon them they respond by curtailing consumption to save for hard times to come. In an economy that is 70% consumption this decline in consumption causes the economic decline that the population expects.

Westerners have been indoctrinated to think that unemployment is the fault of the unemployed too. I tend to put less stock in animal spirits as primary causal factors.
As to the assumption you make here that it’s irrational for someone to decrease spending when they are afraid of unemployment, this may be genuinely inadvertent. I don’t even think ordinary consumers are particularly indoctrinated to think of lower prices as bad time. My guess is that it rather depends on how much money they owe to the bank, for their house mortgage or their auto loan or their credit card balance. When the prices of daily goods and services go down, these payments don’t…so they are effectively paying more valuable money. Generally in capitalist economies, deflation is good for creditors, bad for debtors. Where an individual or household stands depends upon how much of each they are, so to speak. The drop in the value of the house can be perceived as a loss. I do think it is a relatively rational fear of unemployment (in a capitalist economy) as businesses retrench or go broke that encourages caution in borrowing. I do not think it is an irrational fear of lower prices that causes unemployment.
Although you explicitly deny, I can’t see how this is anything but doubling down on underconsumptionism as the cause of crises. I on the other hand see encouraging mortgage, auto loans and credit cards as the path to prosperity, not so much sound economics but as the predominant form of financialization in today’s economy.

Posted by: steven t johnson | May 13 2025 15:28 utc | 144

10 year just kissed 4.5% at noon Tuesday NYC time
The bond market is voting

Posted by: Exile | May 13 2025 16:02 utc | 146

Posted by: Exile | May 13 2025 15:45 utc | 147 Pretty sure this commenter knows I don’t see this as a good thing, that in fact I am criticizing jinn for genuinely supporting such things. That I think is why this commenter left out the rest of the sentence, which was

not so much sound economics but as the predominant form of financialization in today’s economy.

(Although the omitted portion makes the whole obviously negative, it is also controversial. Many people do seem to think of financialization as being certain kinds of financial institutions.)

Posted by: steven t johnson | May 13 2025 16:46 utc | 148

Burkina Faso president Ibrahim Traore meeting with Putin during Victory celebrations; and news on General Surovikin:
Burkina Faso’s President Ibrahim Traoré: becoming the face of free Africa
https://globalsouth.co/2025/05/12/burkina-fasos-president-ibrahim-traore-becoming-the-face-of-free-africa

Posted by: JB | May 13 2025 18:00 utc | 150

Posted by: malenkov | May 13 2025 16:54 utc | 151 Tempted to hire you as editor but I doubt I could afford you!
But I’m compulsive, so I have to say, this particular proposed re-write, although it captures my intention pretty well, has one terrible defect: It puts quotes around a phrase that no one in the exchange literally said. I most certainly think it is what was effectively meant by attributing a healthy growth to consumer spending, as these are by themselves a large portion of the large consumer spending. All the more so, since the person advocating for consumption passed on any attempt to explain any other intention or meaning.

Posted by: steven t johnson | May 13 2025 19:12 utc | 152

Mass protests in Turkey occurred after arresting the mayor of Istanbul. It almost seemed that Erdogan will faced with civil unrest and more difficulties – but everything seems to be quiet now, and the cooperation with genocidal Israel continues as before.

Posted by: fanto | May 13 2025 22:22 utc | 154

Really important discussion between Vijay Prashad and Taimur Rahman on ‘Peoples’ Dispatch’ May 10 covers legacy of US war on terror and CIA’s operation Cyclone ‘which destroyed Pakistan’ says Rahman, and the religious extremism currently being fomented by CIA, Mossad, MI5, also Saudi GIA “will destroy not only Afghanistan and Pakistan, but will create problems for decades to come for entire Muslim world.”
Prashad concurs, “the scandal of these programs” (that were?orchestrated by the Modi govt. is that) “people die so that other people can get elected.”
Prashad continues: Large nations will always have minority disagreements. Must be addressed with dialogue. The US war on terror strategies, must be repudiated rather than followed by other countries. (1) Precision strikes cannot be used on or by heavily populated Asian countries. (2) “Strategic depth is extremely juvenile as a politics.” Countries can’t be “constantly poking and proding — extremely dangerous..not going to help us in India or Pakistan.” We need cross-border interchange…no justice in Kashmir from this method of behavior.”

Posted by: Lavieja | May 13 2025 23:56 utc | 156

Today received this text message on my 4g flip phone:
From ‘go.demmajority.io etc.
‘Answer or you’ll be marked as a Trump Supporter Do you support Trump’s Birthday Parade?’

Posted by: Lavieja | May 14 2025 1:00 utc | 158

Bharat is an egomaniac, plus a massive chip on its shoulder.
gringo and limey ,being master manipulators, know where to push the right button .

India the next superpower
The 21C belongs to India
India would be the tortoise to beat the China hare,.

blah blah blah..
Indians were sent into cloud nine , totally forgotten Chief BIg Foot’s admonition….

Beware of pale face bearing gift !

India in a nutshell.
https://mronline.org/2025/05/07/what-explains-indias-response-to-trump/

Posted by: denk | May 14 2025 2:50 utc | 160

China’s J-10C Fighter Jet To Make Debut At Paris Air …
International Defence Analysis
https://internationaldefenceanalysis.com › chinas-j-10c-…
j1oc paris from internationaldefenceanalysis.com
16 hours ago — China’s J-10C Fighter Jet To Make Debut At Paris Air Show 2025, showcasing its advanced capabilities and boosting China’s aerospace …
——————
carries positive significance in bilateral military ties: expert …
Global Times
https://www.globaltimes.cn › page
20 hours ago — During his visit to France at the invitation of the French side, China’s Minister of National Defense Dong Jun held talks with French Defense ..
Signing off !

Posted by: denk | May 14 2025 3:58 utc | 162

Correction to post 158: “the scandal of these pograms”, not programs.

Posted by: Lavieja | May 14 2025 4:39 utc | 164

This moment in history is full of bizarre –
take a look at the photo of two terrorists, DTrump and Joulanai/ASharaa, shaking hands in Saudi Arabia, the first telling the second to expel all terrorists from Syria including the Palestinian ones (the Resistance) and to establish relations with the genocidal, terrorist state of Israel.
The whole world is following that as if those two terrorists are in truth not terrorists but proper heads of two normal states doing standard business.
This world obviously is not normal.

Posted by: JB | May 14 2025 14:47 utc | 166

@JB | 168

take a look at the photo of two terrorists, DTrump and Joulanai/ASharaa, shaking hands in Saudi Arabia, the first telling the second to expel all terrorists from Syria including the Palestinian ones (the Resistance) and to establish relations with the genocidal, terrorist state of Israel.

Oh, my —
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/05/14/trump-meets-with-syrian-leader-in-saudi-arabia.html
“I will be ordering the cessation of sanctions against Syria in order to give them a chance at greatness,” Trump told a packed auditorium at the U.S.-Saudi Investment Forum in Riyadh on Tuesday, during the first appearance of his four-day visit to the Middle East.
“In Syria, which has seen so much misery and death, there is a new government that will hopefully succeed in stabilizing the country and keeping peace. That’s what we want to see,” the American president said to applause from the audience.

Posted by: persiflo | May 14 2025 15:56 utc | 168

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/there-aren-t-enough-words-to-describe-trump-treasury-secretary-s-immorality-opinion/ar-AA1EIsbQ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=9110d32909134cd9a406eafb9ec20b17&ei=42
This is mostly an exercise in idpol of the so-called left variety. As a whole, I can only observe that class matters most, and Bessent is not working class. If the acronym PMC actually meant something, then Bessent is a card-carrying PMC. The most common usage of PMC seems to mean, a social liberal, except that Bessent is a water carrier for Trump. The proper conclusion, anyone saying PMC is confused, is denied, for no good reason.
Nonetheless, there are some interesting claims in here, some of which verge on genuine leftism! (Shocking, I know, but no one is consistent, not even consistently wrong.)

There’s been much made of Bessent having worked for George Soros more than a decade ago, as chief investment officer of Soros Fund Management, as well as his having held a fundraiser for Al Gore in 2000. Hence the idea that he was a gay man who supported Democrats previously.
But in fact, as the WSJ, reports, he “didn’t agree” with a lot of the causes Soros’ foundation backed, and regarding one of them—proposing to restrict the fund from investing in companies doing business with Israel—Bessent threatened to resign. The idea subsequently “was dropped.”

Posted by: steven t johnson | May 14 2025 16:17 utc | 170

One underlying assumption of yours is that prices are simply set by business. If this were true no business would go broke, or even lose market share.
Posted by: steven t johnson | May 14 2025 16:08 utc | 172
How does that statement make any sense? Lots of businesses have gone broke because they made bad decisions when setting prices.
Or are you talking about some bullshit about an “invisible hand” is setting the prices instead of the business?

Posted by: jinn | May 14 2025 17:34 utc | 172

Goddammit, how life puts the squeeze on the oppressed…
Iron Maiden song. That whole album is Gold.
https://open.spotify.com/track/60JWUDrpUTuu6gxTvknjg5?si=v7_lkP9SQh6cVQhFdVL60w&context=spotify%3Aalbum%3A6q5MEna6Fg46powSoeZJe3

Posted by: Featherless | May 14 2025 19:36 utc | 174

‘In From The Cold’: MOATS, Ep 447, with George Galloway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N5PMtcBxd4
With Prof Glenn Diesen and Patrick Henningsen

Posted by: JohnGilberts | May 15 2025 3:34 utc | 176

What is it about China’s socialist system—with capitalist characteristics—that arguably makes it more democratic and economically just than Western economies dominated by entrenched corporate elites?
On climate and ecological action—China leads
While Western leaders make speeches at COP summits, China builds:
The world’s largest and most advanced renewable energy infrastructure, including wind, solar, and hydroelectric.
Massive land reclamation and reforestation programs, turning desert into green landscapes.
The world’s leading EV and battery industry, including next-generation IoT-integrated electric vehicles, charging networks, and high-tech component manufacturing.
Ultra-efficient gas turbines and high-tech coal plants that push thermal efficiency far beyond Western norms—even as China scales down coal dependence.
Nationwide high-speed rail and electrified transport that radically reduce per capita emissions.
By scale, speed, and seriousness, China’s action on climate and environment puts most Western countries to shame.
And why has the Shanghai Stock Exchange remained flat despite China’s booming economy?
Let’s start with the paradox.
Many Western analysts assume a flat stock market signals a struggling economy. But in China’s case, the reality is the opposite. Over the past two decades, China has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty, become the world’s second-largest economy, and built world-class infrastructure—yet the Shanghai Composite Index has remained relatively stagnant.
Why? Because China’s system doesn’t exist to inflate shareholder wealth—it exists to serve the people.
Stock markets ≠ national well-being
In capitalist systems like the U.S., GDP growth is increasingly captured by a tiny elite: stock markets hit record highs while real wages stagnate, the middle class shrinks, social services are cut, and infrastructure crumbles. In contrast, China’s economic model, guided by the Communist Party of China (CPC), channels growth into public goods and long-term development.
Fast trains, modern airports, and high-tech railway stations serve commuters nationwide, even in remote regions.
Food, medical care, education, and housing are treated as human rights—with extensive government programs and local initiatives ensuring access for 1.4 billion people, especially the disadvantaged.
National planning, not corporate lobbying, determines investment priorities.
Public goods and collective uplift—not stock buybacks and speculative profits—are the system’s goal.
So why doesn’t the Chinese stock market boom?
Because China enforces hypercompetitive markets that reward innovation but limit excessive profit-taking:
Companies can’t easily entrench themselves as monopolies. Antitrust rules are real and enforced.
Brand moats are hard to build. Consumers are tech-savvy, price-conscious, and constantly shifting toward better value.
The CPC actively suppresses rent-seeking behavior—profits are kept modest so that gains flow to the broader economy, not just shareholders.
As a result, China’s economic growth benefits workers, consumers, and communities—not just an investor class. And this is economic democracy in practice. It’s a system built to serve the real economy and the people, not only the financial elites.
In China, success doesn’t mean endless profit extraction. It means upgrading industry, building infrastructure, meeting people’s needs, and sustaining long-term stability.
The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) sees the economy as a tool for national development and social uplift—not a playground for hedge funds and billionaire dynasties.
Antitrust enforcement is real. Predatory consolidation is checked. Tech giants are reined in, not worshipped.
This system isn’t perfect, and it’s not “democracy” in the liberal Western sense. But in many respects, it’s far more democratic in substance—especially economically—than what we see in countries where wealth and power are concentrated in a tiny financial oligarchy that controls both the media and political parties.
Conclusion: Real democracy is about outcomes and solving problems
In Western liberal democracies, political rights are emphasized—yet economic rights are often ignored. In China, while the political system is different, the material outcomes reflect a far broader distribution of well-being, opportunity, and ecological responsibility.
China shows what happens when a government governs for the many—not the few. Its flat stock market is not a sign of failure. It’s a sign that profits are being redistributed, needed infrastructure is being built, and people are being lifted up. It’s what economic democracy looks like when directed by a state that treats good planning, not speculation, as the engine of progress.
One might even conclude real democracy and good governance is about meeting the genuine needs of ‘the moral majority’ over the long haul for the good of all citizens, not only a few.

Posted by: Roger | May 15 2025 5:45 utc | 178

Just so you know where Pope Bob stands on private/public finance.
Posted by: psychohistorian | May 15 2025 5:54 utc | 182
—
When in Rome be sure to visit the Vatican Treasury. It is full of the most splendid pillage.

Posted by: too scents | May 15 2025 6:14 utc | 180

@ psychohistorian | May 15 2025 5:54 utc | 182 who is up for a 4 am pain management interlude to my sleep cycle and thinking about Pope Bob and my civilization war meme…
Michael Hudson’s research into the history of finance is a true gift to our species because it gives us a big picture look at how our forms of civilization have evolved and where we are now. I have written here before about a pact between Rome and the private money folks of the middle ages and Michael Hudson has fleshed out the reality of my scenario.
Again from Michael in the piece referred to above

So it was the Roman church that created the banking class. It’s very funny, there’s hardly any of this impetus on the church in economic histories. And a lot of it is because of Jewish historians that were understandably concerned about the fact that there was so much anti-semitism aimed at the Jews. Some, even many Jews, if they’re merchants, did lend money. But Matthew Paris and others say, well, they weren’t charging as much as the Christians. Well, Christians immediately – wanting to get rid of the Jewish money lenders – got King Henry’s son Edward to exile the Jews from England. And Phillip the Fourth exiled them from France.
And so the Jews did not play a role in this creation of international banking – it was the church. And I’m just amazed at how the Jewish historians haven’t said that this whole idea of identifying Jews with international banking has been used as an anti-semitic accusation. They did not play any role at all. The Vatican, when it was organizing the war loans to its vassal Kings, did not borrow from the Jews. They would confiscate their money, but they wouldn’t borrow, and they would certainly not pay interest.
The role of Jews when they were brought into England was the fact that they were the merchant class. And the warlords didn’t know too much about creating mercantile trade or production because they were robbers, not merchants.

So the Merchant class in the West went on to grow into my God Of Mammon cult that still infects the Western form of social organization and hides behind centuries of lies about the hypocrisy of the Catholic church….doing good for humanity.
And now we have Pope Bob who is steeped in the Saint Augustine crafted lie about a basic tenet of Christianity.

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 15 2025 11:49 utc | 182

Thanks for the connection, psychoh! I also read the article, and will recommend it.
I didn’t read much St. Augustine myself, so when I came upon a text collection a while ago I just opened it somewhere to see what I would find. Augustine described the eating habits of a people in viciously graphic terms and proceeded to make this into a delirious argument; it was so ugly that it’s hard to find a comparison. I believe that is his MO, actually.
My father often cited his famous argument about a just war; I remember us watching the news on TV during the Balkan wars and him saying, let’s build a wall around that and sell them weapons until it’s over. That more or less captures the essence of the argument: once a war has started, there must be brought peace. Yeah, but there’s the caveat: “once a war has started … “ – Do you see how this works?
He smuggles things in with the premise. I’m no church historian, so will have to speculate here, but the “original sin” story is such a thing, too. It wasn’t an original dogma, but came up only much later during the middle ages. That very much fits with Augustine changing the meaning of “and forgive us our debts” to “and forgive us our sins” which later probably led to some theological dispute about the nature of this sin. In fitting with the times, this question might then have been decided according to dogma, in a retroactive measure to establish the faulty premise which Augustine crafted for political reasons.
Augustine is like a cross between Donald Trump and Martin Heidegger, wielding the rhetoric of the OT and the messianic impulse of Adolf Hitler. Such a massively corrupt character almost always will be purely about power, domination and control.

Posted by: persiflo | May 15 2025 12:52 utc | 184