Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 10, 2025
Trump’s Market Whiplash Continues

Yesterday's piece had warned about the curious drop in Treasurys and rise of interest rates. It was a dire sign that the global economy and markets far beyond Wall Street were going bad.

The Trump administration recognized the danger and, just fifteen minutes after I had published my post, pulled back (archived):

The economic turmoil, particularly a rapid rise in government bond yields, caused Mr. Trump to blink on Wednesday afternoon and pause his “reciprocal” tariffs for most countries for the next 90 days, according to four people with direct knowledge of the president’s decision.

Asked to explain the decision, Mr. Trump told reporters: “Well, I thought that people were jumping a little bit out of line. They were getting yippy, you know, they were getting a little bit yippy, a little bit afraid.”

Behind the scenes, senior members of Mr. Trump’s team had feared a financial panic that could spiral out of control and potentially devastate the economy. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and others on the president’s team, including Vice President JD Vance, had been pushing for a more structured approach to the trade conflict that would focus on isolating China as the worst actor while still sending a broader message that Mr. Trump was serious.

This does not mean that the trouble has ended.

Who is going to invest, into what, while any day, at any moment, the most basic economic conditions may change in completely unpredictable directions:

Asked on Wednesday how he would decide on any further exemptions, Mr. Trump said: “Instinctively, more than anything else. I mean, you almost can’t take a pencil to paper. It’s really more of an instinct, I think, than anything else.”

By admitting that Trump acknowledges that he is the real problem.

How can I decide to invest in a new car when by delivery date the tariffs and interests involved might have changed in unforeseeable directions? On what basis can I trust Trump's instincts? I can't and won't. The same will hold for much bigger investment decisions.

For once the Washington Post editorial is getting it right (archived):

The bond markets forced Trump’s hand. By moving their money out of dollars and selling U.S. Treasury bonds, investors told Trump what his closest advisers would not about the perils of starting trade wars with all other countries at once. Trillions in value were wiped out in equity markets, and the financial system blinked red with indicators of contagion.

Finally, bond yields began to forecast calamity — especially the alarming sell-off of 10-year Treasurys. In times of panic, these bonds usually attract investors. Their failure to do so this time reflected declining confidence that the U.S. government would repay its debts.

After Trump finally announced the tariff pause, the S&P 500 closed up 9.5 percent and the tech-heavy Nasdaq gained 12 percent. The news is indeed worth rejoicing. But keep in mind that the 90-day pause will last only until July 8, and in the meantime the trade war with China might continue to escalate. In other words, investors, business and consumers will still be living with uncertainty. For the long term, Trump and his team are well advised to come up with a less volatile economic strategy.

Until Trump settles on a predictable course the global carnage will continue.

Comments

I also like Trump said it was “instictual”, which is exactly what I said yesterday.
He has been wheeling and dealing for 50 years. He doesn’t do much mulling and strategizing anymore, he doesn’t have to.
Its obviously the art of the deal.
A bull market for 17 years now, with the stability of bailouts just in case.
Dont worry, Wall Street will always get their way.

Posted by: UWDude | Apr 10 2025 17:37 utc | 101

Your posts on the tariffs issue is excellent, B
Trump still has 125 percent tariffs on China.
While I realize we are not their largest trading partner, aren’t they ours?
I would like to see you delve more into the repercussions of that, despite Trump’s pause on other countries.
Great piece, B!

Posted by: Kay | Apr 10 2025 17:44 utc | 102

Posted by: KevinB | Apr 10 2025 14:38 utc | 64
Posted by: steven t johnson | Apr 10 2025 16:22 utc | 82
If the odd treasury stock divergence was caused by margin calls of some billionaires then I have to laugh. Doesn’t the Fed always boast the US bond markets are so liquid you could move trillions without impacting the market? Now you’re telling me speckies with a few billion can make it jump 30 basis pts? Hah.
I’m skeptical if this is the case, as it doesn’t explain the persistent high rates. It looks to me there’s strong selling pressure from sovereign players and maybe speculators contributed a few mini spikes.

Posted by: Autumn | Apr 10 2025 17:47 utc | 103

Posted by: KevinB | Apr 10 2025 14:38 utc
I join Don Firineach | Apr 10 2025 16:17 utc and steven t johnson | Apr 10 2025 16:22 utc in thanking you for this post.

Posted by: spudski | Apr 10 2025 17:55 utc | 104

True seems to have had a ‘Liz Truss’ moment. I wonder what it would be like if they got married (Yeuch!) HP Lovecraft would have a field day.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Apr 10 2025 17:55 utc | 105

Posted by: David G Horsman | Apr 10 2025 17:13 utc | 90
“The main problem seemed to be how Trump presents information.”
The main problem is
a) where is Trumps info coming from, and,
b) does he understand where it is coming from, and
c) does he understand it.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Apr 10 2025 18:00 utc | 106

Posted by: UWDude | Apr 10 2025 17:37 utc | 101
“He has been wheeling and dealing for 50 years. He doesn’t do much mulling and strategizing anymore, he doesn’t have to.”
Maybe someone should tell him that foreign affairs and diplomacy are not in any way like a real estate deal, or for that matter, a TV show. Or maybe most of the clowns around him can’t tell the difference either.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Apr 10 2025 18:05 utc | 107

@Mary #40
Thank you for clarifying this.
I wasn’t going to reply to Jose Neto since he lead with that false canard.
Trolls gonna troll

Posted by: joedontsurf | Apr 10 2025 18:09 utc | 108

Useful information and analysis I think, look closely at the graphics in particular: https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartboook-371-oh-its-only-china?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=192845&post_id=160991738&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=2rylou&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

And in economic terms, especially from the point of view of the US consumer, “Oh, it is only China they are going after”, makes no sense. China is so huge that with 125 percent tariffs on that one country, the overall tariff level is actually higher than before Trump announced his “concessions”.

Posted by: KOB | Apr 10 2025 17:30 utc | 96 The intervention in late 2019 occurred yes…but Tooze was speaking of the crisis in March 2020. At face value, this argues that Trump’s magic didn’t work to save America his first term, although I suppose Trump cultists can find a way to blame Democrats/Biden the demonic vegetable. This particular comment wasn’t particularly Trump worshipping until it veered off in madness about Covid, which is very much one of the Trump cult revelations.
Posted by: Autumn | Apr 10 2025 17:47 utc | 103 Can’t speak for KevinB, but so far as I can see, neither of us said, a few billionaires. Personally I think the real world economy is suffering from falling profits so it’s more than a few billionaires but a lot. The point about how this wasn’t big enough to collapse the bond markets is correct. That would indeed take trillions…but I didn’t say the bond market collapsed, or even that it was the inescapable beginning of the final collapse. That’s the implicit claim of Trump cultists, especially the ones claiming Trump Chaos Agent of Accelerationism!, is finishing off the Empire. Your comment should be aimed against them! I don’t doubt that sovereign funds and foreign entities like banks and their versions of hedge funds, money market are also players…but if you’re hinting at some sort of geopolitical conspiracy, you need much more evidence.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Apr 10 2025 18:09 utc | 109

Today’s US is hyper monopolistic, not hyper competitive.
If you want to see competition, look at China’s domestic auto market. Endless brands fighting it out each day to create the vehicles of tomorrow.
The US is shrinking brand competition. Consolidation is the order of America today.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 10 2025 14:33 utc | 59
Does this include all state owned enterprises that wouldn’t exist without subsidies? The US could do the same thing, but I wouldn’t call the results competitive. At least not in an economic sense.

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 18:35 utc | 110

This entire tariff war is part of a broader strategy to contain and imprison China in a trading “sandbox” of America’s own design, and utterly impoverish it:
1. The US plans to contain China’s economic market share and trade flows to a narrow band of countries, ideally just China itself.
2. It intends to do this by intimidating the rest of the world into toeing the American line – that was the purpose of first subjecting the entire world to tariffs, then providing some relief for a limited 90-day period. The psychological impact is to pass this message to the RoW: “This is how it feels like when we hurt you with tariffs. Do you want to go through that again?”. It’s a powerful technique and appears to have resulted in most of the victims caving in to Trumps demands for per-country negotiations.
3. Trump’s plan will then be to force each country into an exclusive trading agreement which will include clauses on how much trade (if any) it can conduct with China. This is the mechanism by which the U.S hopes will gradually (quickly) isolate China from the global trading system.
4. The U.S will apply tactics of intimidation against each of these countries up to and including threats of war, colour revolutions, bribery and blackmail of key officials and if necessary, assassination of stubborn leadership.
5. Most if not all of the West will cave quickly to these demands, then the tiny, dependent states like the pacific islands and some US-aligned South American states. African countries like Kenya and Tanzania, U.S sock-puppets will follow willingly.
6. As these countries quickly fall in line with the U.S demands, China will rapidly lose its investments in projects and currently ongoing ventures in those countries, finding itself slowly driven out of the markets of former partners.
7. Ostensibly, the U.S wants to become the center of global manufacturing, replacing China – or if not the actual center, then the control over the center of manufacturing (e.g, by controlling trade flows through the global shipping lanes).
The U.S will therefore seek to consolidate its control of the worlds key trade “chokepoints” (Red Sea, Hormuz, Panama Canal, Cape of Good Hope, Malacca, the Arctic etc. …), while concurrently seeking to drive manufacturing out of China to it’s own proxies or back to mainland U.S or Mexico.
8. Once China is contained, it will be forced to become a consumer economy: Captive Consumers for American controlled products, just like every American-dominated colony.
9. At the same time, the U.S will seek to hollow out China’s technological base: By destroying it’s market share, moving manufacturing outside of China, banning American and EU companies from doing business with China, it will attempt to stem the flow of I.P to China and stifle technological development there. Part of this strategy is hollowing out of Taiwan’s chip-sector, which the U.S is currently trying to achieve carefully by moving Taiwan’s Chip Fabs to the US before executing the controlled demolition of Taiwan.
Well, that’s the plan. Whether it will succeed or not depends on how many states will bend over willingly rather than face up to the Superpower and wether China and Russia are willing to sit on their hands and do nothing.
The problem is, knowing the way the world works, China (and Russia) won’t show much of a desire to defend vulnerable states against the U.S onslaught. Those countries will therefore have no incentive to rally around China to form a defensive trade network for mutual benefit.
They know that when the US Navy comes knocking, China and Russia won’t have their backs, so better cave in early.
The one way out of this mess is the way neither China nor Russia have the nerve to adopt:
Going on the offensive and instigating conflicts among American allies and making sure the U.S is too busy dealing with manufactured crises to be a problem to the other superpowers. The U.S has been given much too much time to plan, develop creative schemes for causing problems to the globe, it’s been given the luxury of taking the offensive initiative for too long.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 10 2025 18:44 utc | 111

@Posted by: steven t johnson | Apr 10 2025 18:09 utc | 109
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. The “covid-19” genocide was/is the cover for the USD crash aka “repo market crash of 2019” that occurred in 2019, banks were refusing USD, which prompted the Fed to bail out the global financial market. The consequences of all of that are still with us that today.

Posted by: KOB | Apr 10 2025 18:48 utc | 112

In these “advances” and “retreats” made at the whim of the human Doritos, can anyone imagine how much money their insider friends made in the stock market?
Posted by: Nixonjohnson yLyndon | Apr 10 2025 11:27 utc | 10
There are 13 billionaires in Trumps’s cabinet and the commerce secretary was a stockbroker … which makes as much sense as a used car salesman running Mercedes.
Having a billionaire salesman running your economy makes no sense whatsoever but having a greedy sociopath of a super salesman selling a ridiculous plan to repatriate jobs that has zero chance of success but will cause massive asset devaluation that a cabinet full of billionaires and their buddies can pick up for a song is brilliant.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Apr 10 2025 18:51 utc | 113

Based on all the 5d chess going on, I’m starting to wonder if Biden were really demented? Perhaps he was really very strong, but acting weak, in order to be a good negotiator.
Conversely, I’m also starting to wonder if Trump Derangement Syndrome is actually a period of lucidity for the sheeple of the US, that we all ought to have been acting that way with all of our presidents in my lifetime. If only their temporary sanity would manifest during other presidents.

Posted by: HB Brian | Apr 10 2025 18:53 utc | 114

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 18:35 utc | 110 and others
What is this nonsense about state-owned enterprises and competition, and a level playing field – capitalist private enterprises are subsidised in many forms, AND, many of the mega corporations (privately owned) have more money than many states.
So why this ideological nonsense ?!

Posted by: JB | Apr 10 2025 18:56 utc | 115

Posted by: too scents | Apr 10 2025 17:16 utc | 91
It’s as simple as insurance business.
You pay a fee to protect your house, or car or your investments, this is done by buying a put.
Not rocket science even if some people are not able to grasp it.
You can also use some more sophisticated strategies.
You can ‘sterilize’ your portfolio by assuming an equivalent short position.
The problem, as usual is if you want to pay the cost or not.

Posted by: Mario | Apr 10 2025 18:57 utc | 116

The problem, as usual is if you want to pay the cost or not.
Posted by: Mario | Apr 10 2025 18:57 utc | 116

The problem is that there is no way to accurately estimate the cost.

Posted by: too scents | Apr 10 2025 18:59 utc | 117

there is no way to accurately estimate the cost.
Posted by: too scents | Apr 10 2025 18:59 utc | 117

Adding …
Remember it is volatility we are talking about. There are no actuarial tables for volatility.

Posted by: too scents | Apr 10 2025 19:01 utc | 118

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 10 2025 18:44 utc | 111
Thanks for explaining the plan. However, it seems that plan was, conservatively put, a bit too large to chew on for the US and it instead causes the US economy itself to crash and burn, while Chinese digital yuan, swap lines and trading systems continue grabbing share from SWIFT more-or-less unhindered.
Even the EU isn’t exactly kowtowing the US, granting Chinese investments and electric vehicles free reign in EU states. That means the plan is DOA.

Posted by: unimperator | Apr 10 2025 19:02 utc | 119

Can’t speak for KevinB, but so far as I can see, neither of us said, a few billionaires. Personally I think the real world economy is suffering from falling profits so it’s more than a few billionaires but a lot. The point about how this wasn’t big enough to collapse the bond markets is correct. That would indeed take trillions…but I didn’t say the bond market collapsed, or even that it was the inescapable beginning of the final collapse. That’s the implicit claim of Trump cultists, especially the ones claiming Trump Chaos Agent of Accelerationism!, is finishing off the Empire. Your comment should be aimed against them! I don’t doubt that sovereign funds and foreign entities like banks and their versions of hedge funds, money market are also players…but if you’re hinting at some sort of geopolitical conspiracy, you need much more evidence.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Apr 10 2025 18:09 utc | 109
Actually Kevin did say the pause was to allow the billionaires to unwind their trades or else their liquidation would crash the entire market…. since you approved of his explanation so I assumed you agreed.
My view was that this would not be possible, and its highly unlikely billionaires and their speculative trades could even muster enough bonds to move treasuries that much. It’s less of a conspiracy and just China or Japan offloading some of their bonds then disperse the rest with VWAP orders. Not much different than msm speculation.

Posted by: Autumn | Apr 10 2025 19:14 utc | 120

So why this ideological nonsense ?!
Posted by: JB | Apr 10 2025 18:56 utc | 115
What is nonsensical about applying a chinese model to the american market? Why shouldn’t every US state have its own brand of automobile? Do you think they could possibly all be profitable? If that sounds ridiculous then perhaps it is.
The point being that state owned companies are less sensitive to financial pressure than private companies. And while they may be subject to political pressure by the need to ensure jobs and provide patronage I would not qualify that as economic.

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 19:21 utc | 121

Posted by: UWDude | Apr 10 2025 17:37 utc | 101
“He has been wheeling and dealing for 50 years. He doesn’t do much mulling and strategizing anymore, he doesn’t have to.”
Maybe someone should tell him that foreign affairs and diplomacy are not in any way like a real estate deal, or for that matter, a TV show. Or maybe most of the clowns around him can’t tell the difference either.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Apr 10 2025 18:05 utc | 107
Maybe just a simple: “you don’t have the cards”? He seems to understand that.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Apr 10 2025 19:23 utc | 122

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 19:21 utc | 121
economic in the same sense as private company.

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 19:24 utc | 123

Posted by: too scents | Apr 10 2025 18:59 utc | 117
Options and futures are quoted so you exactly know the cost when you enter the trade.

Posted by: Mario | Apr 10 2025 19:25 utc | 124

Options and futures are quoted so you exactly know the cost when you enter the trade.
Posted by: Mario | Apr 10 2025 19:25 utc | 124

Yes, but how do choose the best strike price?

Posted by: too scents | Apr 10 2025 19:29 utc | 125

Stavridis: US Defense is Collateral Damage in the Trade War
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2025-04-10/tariffs-us-defense-is-collateral-damage-with-china
“China is likely to be the ultimate geopolitical benefactor of a sudden, massive increase in US tariffs. Yes, Trump has hit Chinese imports with a tariff of over 100%, but this is likely to backfire as it did during Trump’s first term.
Simply put, US consumers want Chinese goods more than China needs American inports.
Meanwhile, Beijing may make new friends. Its Belt and Road initiative already involves 150 countries, providing economic incentives, direct investment and foreign aid. Coupled with the Trump administration’s decision to slash such aid and gut the US Agency for International Development, America is scoring a geopolitical own goal.
A week ago, I saw something I couldn’t have imagined: the trade ministers of South Korea, Japan and China standing shoulder to shoulder and indicating they could coordinate their responses to the Trump tariffs.
Many smaller nations will now seek a better offer available from Beijing, and it is hardly inconceivable that the European allies, Canada and Mexico will carve out trade arrangements with China. This will further weaken NATO, which has been creaking badly since the arrival of Team Trump.”
‘Every dark cloud has a silver lining.’-proverb

Posted by: John Gilberts | Apr 10 2025 19:29 utc | 126

Posted by: HB Brian | Apr 10 2025 18:53 utc | 114 LOL
Posted by: KOB | Apr 10 2025 18:48 utc | 112 The September repo crisis and Fed bailout occurred in September 2019, apparently successfully as the overall economy continued very well, last quarter 2019 seems to linger in Trump cultists minds as a Golden Age. Covid first emerged in late 2019 and got out of control January/February 2020. The efforts to contain it led to a global recession, which prompted Fed intervention on a massive scale nationally (and globally as I recall) as well as massive government intervention which began under Trump and later expanded under Biden.
Your incoherent version seems to regard Covid as an invention designed to crash the world economy, despite this cause coming after the effect, the crash you backdated to 2019. But the real drop in production etc. occurred after, March 2020. As I say, madness. If I live long enough I’ll read Tooze Shutdown to bone up on details not publicized back then. [If you deny that Covid did anything, then you have no reason to mention it. No reason=irrational.]
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 10 2025 18:44 utc | 111 PRC under Xi says it’s against hegemony, which seems to be conceived as a choice to bully other countries. It’s a plea for a fair deal. But imperialism is the way of life for a contradiction-driven system in its last throes, not a policy that can be rationally dropped. The system is crazy. How much of that is propagandistic, putting the best face possible for foreign opinion?

Posted by: steven t johnson | Apr 10 2025 19:31 utc | 127

Does this include all state owned enterprises that wouldn’t exist without subsidies? The US could do the same thing, but I wouldn’t call the results competitive. At least not in an economic sense.
Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 18:35 utc | 110
The USA does do the same thing. What do you think the US Social Security Trust Fund does with the money they collect? Put it in a piggy bank? They invest in US debt instruments while the Chinese government invests the money it collects in public infrastructure and Chinese companies.
Now you may prefer your hard earned money going into funding the latest war or genocide however the Chinese prefer to invest their tax dollars in their own people.
While the Chinese have lifted 800 million people out of dire poverty over the last 40 years the USA has created hundreds of billionaires and pushed 12% of the population into poverty and 800,000 into homeless.
So explain in simple words just how the Chinese system is unfair compared to the US system?

Posted by: HB_Norica | Apr 10 2025 19:31 utc | 128

Everyone should read this, laugh and cry:
Trump’s Tariff Theory (The Miran Mirage), by indie.ca
https://globalsouth.co/2025/04/09/trumps-tariff-theory-the-miran-mirage/
and this:
https://globalsouth.co/2025/04/10/sony-thang-in-his-inimitable-style/

Posted by: JB | Apr 10 2025 19:33 utc | 129

So explain in simple words just how the Chinese system is unfair compared to the US system?
Posted by: HB_Norica | Apr 10 2025 19:31 utc | 128
Sure, if you can point out where I suggested that. Ramblings on social security aside, I believe the topic was automobile manufactures.
In that context it is obvious that the two systems are different and using the same yardstick to measure competitiveness is absurd. If the goal was to produce hundreds of car companies it could certainly be done, but this is not an act based on competitiveness. Quite the opposite, which I believed I implied earlier.

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 19:42 utc | 130

Posted by: too scents | Apr 10 2025 16:36 utc | 82:

Dumping their risk onto the plebs is the Brookings way.

Thank you, too scents, for calling a spade spade!
Thanks also to KevinB @#62 for a succinct tutorial on how financial market pros play the crooked game.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Apr 10 2025 19:44 utc | 131

Everyone should read this, laugh and cry:
Trump’s Tariff Theory (The Miran Mirage), by indie.ca
https://globalsouth.co/2025/04/09/trumps-tariff-theory-the-miran-mirage/
and this:
https://globalsouth.co/2025/04/10/sony-thang-in-his-inimitable-style/
Posted by: JB | Apr 10 2025 19:33 utc | 129
Thanks for the links. They were very well researched.
I thought it was pretty dumb but now I know where the comments that say China would pay for the tariffs were coming from.

Posted by: Autumn | Apr 10 2025 19:46 utc | 132

Well, that’s the plan. Whether it will succeed or not depends on how many states will bend over willingly rather than face up to the Superpower and wether China and Russia are willing to sit on their hands and do nothing.
The problem is, knowing the way the world works, China (and Russia) won’t show much of a desire to defend vulnerable states against the U.S onslaught. Those countries will therefore have no incentive to rally around China to form a defensive trade network for mutual benefit.
They know that when the US Navy comes knocking, China and Russia won’t have their backs, so better cave in early.
The one way out of this mess is the way neither China nor Russia have the nerve to adopt:
Going on the offensive and instigating conflicts among American allies and making sure the U.S is too busy dealing with manufactured crises to be a problem to the other superpowers. The U.S has been given much too much time to plan, develop creative schemes for causing problems to the globe, it’s been given the luxury of taking the offensive initiative for too long.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 10 2025 18:44 utc | 111
You make some good points. However, I don’t think how many initially bend is that important. They likely all will to some degree, initially, as always happens in the early stages of some desperate shock and awe movement by Imperialism.
The real key is how China handles it. If they go hard in response and succeed many of the ben dovers will change their attitude to Imperialism.
But the point you make as to Russia China is important. Neither are revolutionary or even anti capitalist states. Neither make any real appeal to the worlds wage slaves to join their struggle with US imperialism, which is really striking in the case of the Chinese “Communist” party. They both instead focus on agreements with other national bourgeois based only the on their respective national capitalist interests. There is very good reason to anticipate they will continue to conduct themselves in this way.
Nonetheless, they both depend very much on the approval of their own wage slaves. The harder Imperialism goes, the more they will be compelled to respond more vigorously. Also, even from their national perspective, they must respond to Imperialist attacks on countries in their neighborhoods or that provide critical resources. This ultimately compelled Russia to military action in Ukraine. I believe China will certainly respond in the same way when pushed. Success in such efforts will draw the attention of other countries, making them bolder in the face of Imperialism. And all the while Imperialism will continue moving from crisis to crisis.
Russia China are not vehicles for the revolutionary changes required, but they are, ala Hudson, much more qualified, reliable and less psychotic stewards of the existing system of global wage slavery. So, if a wage slave has to root for a national ruling class, then it’s gotta be Russia China.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Apr 10 2025 19:52 utc | 133

Based on all the 5d chess going on, I’m starting to wonder if Biden were really demented? Perhaps he was really very strong, but acting weak, in order to be a good negotiator.
Conversely, I’m also starting to wonder if Trump Derangement Syndrome is actually a period of lucidity for the sheeple of the US, that we all ought to have been acting that way with all of our presidents in my lifetime. If only their temporary sanity would manifest during other presidents.
Posted by: HB Brian | Apr 10 2025 18:53 utc | 114
Nice try, crypto Dem. Check out MSNBC, you’ll feel more comfortable.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Apr 10 2025 19:54 utc | 134

LTCMCON-UNDRUM=SIGMAFOOKS(VOLUME+VOLATILITY)LOL
Posted by: TRUTHHURTS | Apr 10 2025 19:40 utc | 130

Exactly so.

Posted by: too scents | Apr 10 2025 19:57 utc | 135

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 19:42 utc | 131
No, the topic is competition, and claims that state owned companies can not compete “in an economic sense”, and that there is no level playing field if state owned companies are involved.
I say that is nonsense, for the reasons I stated in my post 115.
There are many companies that have more money than individual state budgets, and more money than numerous states’ budgets combined.
How is there a level playing field then, but that is never raised. Only state owned companies are a no-no. Really!
And what about the subsidies to major corporations in the West that take various forms without being called subsidies, but in essence they are.

Posted by: JB | Apr 10 2025 19:59 utc | 136

The only nation that really matters is China which is prepared for this; the problems for the US haven’t ended, they have only started
Posted by: JB | Apr 10 2025 10:48 utc | 3
I also believe it was a colossal mistake to treat China this way. The US can treat the banana states in its empire this way, but China is a different story. Apparently, Trump isn’t fully aware of how dangerous this is. China will soon show him.

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Apr 10 2025 20:00 utc | 137

At this stage I doubt “wagging the dog” (bombing Iran) will have a meaningful effect to temper the economic hurricane, sorcerer’s apprentice Trump unleashed. The price for sanity and predictability to return would be sacrificing him. The Praetorian guard might have another swing. Except for the MAGA zealots, who wouldn’t welcome it? I bet Vance’s ensuing tears wouldn’t be out of grief but out of joy.

Posted by: xor | Apr 10 2025 20:03 utc | 138

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 18:35 utc | 110
############
The US does the same thing.
What do you think the auto bailouts and cash for cars were?
What do you think the 2008 bank bailouts were?
What do you think the American IP regime is if not a state-granted monopoly?
What do you think military procurement is?
Do you think SpaceX is financially viable without U.S. government support?
The only people who think China is “cheating” are people who don’t understand economics and ae hyper-partisan simpletons who see the woke and lefties behind every corner.
America is a monopolistic colonial regime. They loved China when they wanted to increase profits and outsource R&D costs. They loved China when China was buying Treasuries. They loved China when China was not treating labor to Western standards, and they loved China when it was destroying their environment.
Now that China has lapped them in development and technology, they are crying. Babies. MAGA and the Dems. All of them are hypocrites and sore losers because brown people are beating them competitively.
China’s smog cities have cleared, and now China is a massive producer of green energy.
America? Americans are crapping in public in NY and SF.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 10 2025 20:08 utc | 139

Posted by: TRUTHHURTS | Apr 10 2025 19:40 utc | 130
So what?
BS is used to price options, nothing new.
Option are priced so it’s up to you to choose if you want to buy protection and what level you want.
Using delayed data, actually APPL is trading around 190 usd, a 190 call may 23 is priced a little more than 13 usd the put is trading a little less.
If I own 100 shares of APPL, 19000 usd I can buy a 190 put for a little less than 1300 usd.
This will grant me the right till may 23 to sell 100 shares of APPL @190 usd, even if APPL should crash to 0.
I can sell a 190 call cashing 1300 usd, this will cushion me for a down in APPL of 13 usd, while I will give up any eventual upside.
Third I can sell a 190 call and buy a 190 put, this will make a synthetic short position sterilizing every move up or down of APPL and it will cost virtually 0.

Posted by: Mario | Apr 10 2025 20:09 utc | 140

Ahenobarbus | Apr 10 2025 19:52 utc | 134
knowing the way the world works, China and Russia won’t show much of a desire to defend vulnerable states against the U.S onslaught.

Now we’re getting somewhere – a dawning realization that America’s forte is unbridled aggression, the willingness to fight to satisfy its culture of conflict and competition.
I keep telling you guys, just like Russians will fight to preserve their homeland, Americans will continue to push and instigate while investing and developing the best technologies to prevail.
Its just how it is, a legacy that can be traced back to at least Alexander. It’s what Western Civ really is, which is why given its track record it’s a suckers bet to challenge the house.

Posted by: Markw | Apr 10 2025 20:15 utc | 141

It’s the entire reason They are attracted to crypto and “stable coins” whose rules are permissioned and centralized and no proof-of-work and can be changed on-the-fly as opposed to satoshis’ rules (which have 16 years of unchanging history now)

Posted by: E | Apr 10 2025 20:15 utc | 142

What will Trump’s next move be? To sanction any country that makes trade deals with China?

Posted by: Nel | Apr 10 2025 20:16 utc | 143

Nice try, crypto Dem. Check out MSNBC, you’ll feel more comfortable.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Apr 10 2025 19:54 utc | 135
Nope. I’m a libertarian-leaning anarchist. F@#$ the government, the republicans, and especially the dems. In other words, we should all have [blank] derangement syndrome over every criminal gangster president we’ve had since no later than LBJ.
And the Biden’s not demented was an obvious sarcastic dig at the double standards the Trump supporters use when they faithfully assume that the chosen one is going to deliver the goods.

Posted by: HB Brian | Apr 10 2025 20:18 utc | 144

What will Trump’s next move be? To sanction any country that makes trade deals with China?
Posted by: Nel | Apr 10 2025 20:16 utc | 144
#############
He will issue an EO that says that breathing air was an American invention stolen by the world under Obama.
Under his Presidency, every human will pay America for the right to breathe, making Americans wealthier than ever!
WINNING!

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 10 2025 20:27 utc | 145

fyi, just out a few hours ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIJx9l6HqjA
Richard D. Wolff and Michael Hudson: China Strikes Back as Trump Ignites New Tariff War!
Dialogue Works

Posted by: michaelj72 | Apr 10 2025 20:42 utc | 146

‘Fighting For Canada!’ (& vid)
https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/10/politics/video/doug-ford-canada-tariff-pause-digvid
We believe in an AM-CAN fortress working together making the two strongest nations in the world. That’s what we want to do.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Apr 10 2025 20:43 utc | 147

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 10 2025 20:08 utc | 140
when I was at occupy, a new manifesto was read by some self-styled representatives.
There were cheers for every proto-socialist point, until it got to “we call for China to stop its currency manipulation”, then there was a smattering of confused applause. (We are getting arrested to protest chinese currency manipulation? News to all of us).
See, I remember when Obama et al were claiming china was purposefully devaluing its currency, eg, cheating.

Posted by: UWDude | Apr 10 2025 20:55 utc | 148

Posted by: JB | Apr 10 2025 19:59 utc | 137
Competitiveness, sure in the context of the production of automobiles.
I don’t see where I mentioned the goodness or badness of state owned companies, or how germane company size is to your argument. China has plenty of large automobile manufactures as do other countries. The main difference is that in China many of them exist by decree, and that this isn’t the case in america.
In short, I objected to his assertion that the number of manufacturers is somehow a measure of competitiveness because it does not take into account that state owned companies are less sensitive to financial pressures than private organizations, and they exist for different reasons. I don’t know how I can put it simpler than that.

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 21:00 utc | 149

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 10 2025 20:08 utc | 140
Seem my response to 137.
How about this? The largest 25 US states set up their own automobile brands and begin production. Now we have achieved the goal of a large number of brands. But is this an outcome of competition? I suggest not.

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 21:01 utc | 150

Posted by: jared | Apr 10 2025 12:17 utc | 20
Trump has stated that he believed tariffs would be an effective means to address the US financial condition and what we claims are trade imbalances – where-in the US is essentially hurting itself by adhering to policies which benefit some (globally and in the US) but work against many in the US. The view that the current global trade arrangement benifits the wealthy and well connected in the US is widely held in the US and has been since about the 80’s (I estimate, likely earlier).
So what Trump is doing is what he said he would do and what the US public (largely) would like him to do and likely one of the reasons that he was elected.
But some argue that the public cannot be trusted with such decisions and these sort of choices should be made by others.
Interesting that the smart people argue that the US was/is failing, but should not alter it’s policy – apparently it is bound to sacrifice itself by signed documents.
Free analysis – worth every penny.
Posted by: jared | Apr 10 2025 12:17 utc | 20
///////
Jared, did USA declare it is now a socialist republic and that the finance and strategic manufacturing from now on belong to the public?
Is Trump surrounded by people like Richard Wolff or Micheal Hudson, and some younger ones that would know how to implement their wisdom?
Answers – no, and no – surprisingly lead to a conclusion: until that happens, your public is NOT trusted with anything. What the public gets is a series of sentimental names (the public, re-public) and a right to waste their time in a national voting booth DURING an entire DAY. The people can get “patriotic” or “liberal” – both however don’t get anything else but fleeced. When was the last time USAians wages grew?
Now, I lived in a system which was like what you described. Public was trusted with decisions. Then another people came over to practice “balkanization” on us and right now I am in the same boat as you – or worse, again thanks to that other people that in this case undid EU’s energy security and industry.
You’ll value how patient and civil I am in my response.
That said, I’d like to turn your attention to the fact that USAians and Europeans do not really talk about the same things when we talk to each other. That’s mostly because USA’s self-understanding and understanding of the world had been deeply corrupted by decades of shameless and equally baseless self-aggrandizing state propaganda, that allows USA’s “elites” to reap enormous profits and fleece the populace while keeping them convinced that they are “exceptional” and that the others hate their “way of life” so that we’d never even attaempt communicating. Now, maybe *some* Europeans went through the same propaganda drill as did USA. But I don’t think so. I’ve met both other Europeans and USAians and I found them rather fitting to their stereotypes. USA people had NO idea of reality of the thing they were talking about – but they were talking to me, so I warned them about this. It was about the invasion of Iraq. Having previously been “balkanized”, I provided them with the sordid details of the operation. And of the previous brutal war Iraq waged against Iran – cheered and helped along by the USA government. It was not about them or the “freedom and democracy”. Bush is a politician, I said, and he is NOT your friend. Oh, but he has friends!
Now, I am warning you and all the other desperate people in the USA: Trump is a showman/buncruptcy manager/fall guy, and he is NOT your friend. And he already has friends: Bibi, Musk, Bezos, Adhelson…
It’s not about any one single (!) policy, Jared. It’s about a revolution. Yes, *that* revolution – that very specific type of revolution. Socialist.
Did you faint?
(He would have moved to the USA right about now, you know, if he were alive. But the spectre… That IS haunting the USA. I saw it.)

Posted by: Marija | Apr 10 2025 21:06 utc | 151

‘Fighting For Canada’-2
Read-Out by President von der lying following her phone call with PM Mark Carney of Canada
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/read_25_1040
“President von der Leyen held a cordial phone call with Prime Minister Mark Carney, during which she highlighted the importance of regular coordination with trusted partners and allies like Canada…
On security and defence, President von der Leyen welcomed the prospect of deeper cooperation and praised PM Carney for Canada’s stand for support to Ukraine including through its active role in the Coalition of the Willing.”
Both Bilderbergers.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Apr 10 2025 21:19 utc | 152

EU AND CHINA START NEGOTIATIONS TO ABOLISH EU TARIFFS ON CHINESE ELECTRIC VEHICLES – HANDELSBLATT

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 10 2025 21:22 utc | 153

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10 2025 21:01 utc | 151
#########
The auto companies in China are not state-owned, just as DeepSeek was not a government project.
Does America have any industrially significant industry with 10+ players competing?
China has several, and that doesn’t include the foreign competition allowed in the market, which is substantial.
It’s a cultural thing. America is a nation of rent-seekers, and China is a nation of innovators.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 10 2025 21:28 utc | 154

„Until Trump settles on a predictable course the global carnage will continue.“
The carnage will continue, no matter what Trump does. Long term technicals have been flashing red for 3 years now. Narrative follows the fact that markets are in a longterm downtrend.

Posted by: calixtus | Apr 10 2025 21:31 utc | 155

Posted by: UWDude | Apr 10 2025 20:55 utc | 149
#######
By MAGA standards, working overtime and increasing one’s education is cheating. LOL
It’s always been a dog-eat-dog world.
Somewhere along the line, many Americans decided that they wanted money for nothing and chicks for free.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 10 2025 21:33 utc | 156

Along the lines of Arch’s commentary, it appears that the purpose of moving the industrial base back to the United States is not because Trump cares about a broke steelworker’s family, it is because the US does not have the manufacturing base to wage a conventional war against China. Western leaders realize that China would quickly deplete US weapons supplies and win, just as Russia is doing in Ukraine. This implies that the decision for tariffs’ is not merely a Trump delusion in which Wall Street can put on the brakes before a market crash, but a strategic decision by the collective West’s lunatic militant aristocracy and will continue in which Trump is just playing the salesman.

Posted by: Deniz | Apr 10 2025 21:33 utc | 157

We’re talking about the guy who advised drinking bleach to fight lung infections caused by Covid-19, which actually proved to have killed some American idiots.
Posted by: José Neto | Apr 10 2025 11:14 utc | 6
Nice MSM quote, it is perfectly safe to drink or nebulize food grade H2O2 in the right concentrations. I’ve done so in the past, the treatment has been around for decades, cures all sorts of diseases. Problem is there is no profit in it. No doubt you are on your 3rd mRNA jab?
Also used DMSO and Chlorine Dioxide without dying, all proven cures for all sorts of things, all viciously suppressed and attacked by corporations wanting to sell you overpriced poisons. Go whatever path you prefer, but don’t prescribe to others based on ignorance.

Posted by: Organic | Apr 10 2025 22:03 utc | 158

@Posted by: steven t johnson | Apr 10 2025 19:31 utc | 127
“COVID-19” is socially contructed mythology. However, the human actions and consequences are real. Repo/USD crash created the need for the myth in order the (re)cover the crash.

Posted by: KOB | Apr 10 2025 22:07 utc | 159

@Posted by: John Gilberts | Apr 10 2025 21:19 utc | 153
Both Satanic Death Cultists.

Posted by: KOB | Apr 10 2025 22:08 utc | 160

Global carnage continues…
Thank god! Die globalists! Die! I hope they all tank!

Posted by: MaryPeck | Apr 10 2025 22:58 utc | 161

The art of the kneel
Dumpty wound back his tariffs because Japan was selling and crashing the bond market….
https://x.com/mrjeffu/status/1910128128460206575

Fox News journalist Charlie Gasparino says Trump lowered the tariffs with “no deals” on the table because “Japan, the biggest holder of bonds, was selling bonds…
If you have a mass sale of bonds, it means people are losing confidence in the US Economy.”

Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 10 2025 23:15 utc | 162

America is losing the meme war. The best Yankee memes I have seen implied nuking the Three Gorges Dam, which is just bully-tier. It’s not even mocking the Chinese.
This is the latest Trump 2.0 meme from TikTok.
https://x.com/RT_com/status/1910470575455138092
That’s a follow-up on this one
https://x.com/RT_com/status/1910404389342151109
1984 vibes in the latter.
AI is wild.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 10 2025 23:22 utc | 163

Posted by: David G Horsman | Apr 10 2025 17:13 utc | 90
“There is a hydrogen peroxide lung treatment inhaled to treat certain conditions.”
Took the Hydrogen Peroxide Nasal Sinus Treatment 20 Years Ago – Never Had Another Sinus Infection Since – Used To Get 2 or 3 a Year.

Posted by: JohnF | Apr 10 2025 23:23 utc | 164

Posted by: Markw | Apr 10 2025 20:15 utc | 142
So in that weather centric worldview of yours, how does china being the biggest and most important power for approx 18 of the last 20 centuries? Diffferent peoples can play the same stupid game, and the Chinese narrative is a tad more robust considering time no?

Posted by: Eol | Apr 10 2025 23:49 utc | 165

Imposing 100+% tariffs on China and lower rates to other countries does not bring factories to US. At best it relocates Chinese factories to others (e.g. Vietnam). But even that, it could just be only the final assembly lines with core parts still produced in China. The result has been demonstrated in Trump 1.0 when he imposed tariffs on China alone. China’s trade surplus surges from 2018 to 2024.
So, imposing the 100+% rate is used purely as “punishment” to China for not willing to call (i.e. kneel at) Trump. It is meant to show the world “Trump is the boss”.
China has the most efficient factories in the world. Suppose it costs $100 to produce a product in China and $120 in Vietnam, the Vietnamese product will beat Chinese one in the US market with the 100+% tariff. But in the rest of the world, Chinese product will still be more competitive than the Vietnamese ones. Will any smart businessman invest in another factory to compete against the existing Chinese factory just to serve an unstable US market?
Deal with it, US is not the world, and US is not competitive in almost everything, except at throwing insults and bullying others.

Posted by: d dan | Apr 11 2025 0:02 utc | 166

All we are seeing is a two year old prone to tantrums and boasting, smashing down the blocks of the others in the kindergarten.
“Look at me, look at me, look at me.”
This game will go on as long as it can.
I don’t know why anyone expects anything different. It’s even worse now since this child second time around is more erratic, confused, and more desperate for attention.

Posted by: George | Apr 11 2025 0:13 utc | 167

Rubicon | Apr 10 2025 16:00 utc | 74
One minute after Trump dropped tariffs… every politician in D.C. jumped on the stock market to make Big $$s.
Wrong.
There’s multiple postings on xwitter of the spike of *obvious* insider trading AHEAD of Dumpty’s announcement.
IYKYK.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 11 2025 0:38 utc | 168

Ahenobarbus | Apr 10 2025 19:52 utc | 134
knowing the way the world works, China and Russia won’t show much of a desire to defend vulnerable states against the U.S onslaught.

Now we’re getting somewhere – a dawning realization that America’s forte is unbridled aggression, the willingness to fight to satisfy its culture of conflict and competition.
I keep telling you guys, just like Russians will fight to preserve their homeland, Americans will continue to push and instigate while investing and developing the best technologies to prevail.
Its just how it is, a legacy that can be traced back to at least Alexander. It’s what Western Civ really is, which is why given its track record it’s a suckers bet to challenge the house.
Posted by: Markw | Apr 10 2025 20:15 utc | 142
That quote is not mine, little Marco. I see you now, motherfucker. 👁️

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Apr 11 2025 0:42 utc | 169

The stock market is nothing but a silly game for rich people. From such a source we might occasionally read something about the shallow, frenetic souls of rich people. For those who care. (Otherwise, you can chill, imho.)
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 10 2025 12:48 utc | 26
============
I don’t agree.
Millions of Americans have their pensions invested in the stock market, bonds, etc. Pension funds pay managers to manage the pension funds so that the beneficiaries can get their pensions.
Some people—probably mostly the self-employed—also have the pension they saved up over their working lives invested in the stock market, bonds, etc. Most of them probably also pay someone to manage the investments.
Many people also manage their own investments.
In the USA, absent the markets most people would not have a pension.
For most people Social Security is not enough to retire on.
Where does YOUR pension come from, Aleph?

Posted by: Jane | Apr 11 2025 0:43 utc | 170

Just as the SanctionsFromHell™️ failed against Russia {and boomeranged} against the EU/U$UK (and coat-tail travellers like Oz), Dumpty’s tariff/trade war against China is going to go way way way worse, IMVHO.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 11 2025 0:44 utc | 171

Going on the offensive and instigating conflicts among American allies and making sure the U.S is too busy dealing with manufactured crises to be a problem to the other superpowers. The U.S has been given much too much time to plan, develop creative schemes for causing problems to the globe, it’s been given the luxury of taking the offensive initiative for too long.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 10 2025 18:44 utc | 111
===========
This is interesting. Can you give some specific examples of what this might look like?
It looks like the UK is already kindn of doing this as it stirs up emotions in the US that lean toward secession. The UK is always stirring to break up the USa. But no one here seems to notice it!

Posted by: Jane | Apr 11 2025 0:53 utc | 172

Just as the SanctionsFromHell™️ failed against Russia {and boomeranged} against the EU/U$UK (and coat-tail travellers like Oz), Dumpty’s tariff/trade war against China is going to go way way way worse, IMVHO.
Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 11 2025 0:44 utc | 173
Let’s see who bends the knee first… On the other hand,if it works too well for the us , maybe they put china in the position that japan was before pearl harbor
Many are forgetting that china needs a lot of external energy and raw materials, they do have contracts in many countries, but what if they bend to the us and refuse to honor them?
Once again the question is, is the us willing to go full war?

Posted by: Newbie | Apr 11 2025 1:00 utc | 173

Some excellent truth telling in the Austalian ABC:
As Trump and China refuse to blink on tariffs, the biggest consumer splurge in history is over
By Americas editor John Lyons
The most powerful economy in human history — but can you buy a toaster?
The most daunting military ever — but why are our children’s toys so expensive?
Even after he did a last minute U-turn, that’s the future facing Americans in the new world of Donald Trump.
As they watched their 401K superannuation funds diminish by the day, the reality of a re-elected Trump was beginning to dawn on Americans.
What Trump was doing, in the words of Australia’s former Ambassador to China, Geoff Raby, could be “one of history’s greatest acts of self-harm”.
Whether he lost his nerve, or this was all a game of chicken as his White House claims, Trump backed down by putting a 90-day pause on his “reciprocal” tariffs, instead announcing that almost all trading partners may be subject to the same “baseline” 10 rate instead.
China, however, is a different story.
Trump has ratcheted up the pressure on his foe, Beijing, slapping a 145 per cent tariff on Chinese goods, effectively immediately.
Since the end of World War II, large sections of the American public have gorged themselves on an eight-decade consumption binge of low-cost goods, most of them from China.
But as a US-China trade war now looms, that feast is likely over.
One of Australia’s most experienced bureaucrats and academics, Hugh White, observed that the Chinese are unlikely to escalate the current crisis as “they are not stupid, unlike the present mob in Washington”.
To have someone such as Hugh White — who has held one of the most sensitive positions in the Department of Defence and has been one of Australia’s key liaison officials with US defence and intelligence officials — describe the current US administration as “stupid” shows how much the world is changing.
Trump has already engaged in a trade war with China during his first term in office.
But unshackled by the resistance he faced from his own Republican party during his first term, China is now seeing Trump Unplugged.
MORE…
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-11/trump-china-and-the-possibility-of-tariff-trade-war/105155856

Posted by: Menz | Apr 11 2025 2:10 utc | 174

It is difficult to tell if the elites are really hurting or that we are indeed approaching the inflection point that will designate the moment in history where the American empire receded terminally back into its shell to its inevitable moment of “inward-lookingness” the phrase neocons view as anathema.
The bane of the neocon/neoliberal has always been a people in a place. In long gone times, this was called a country or nation.
Now nations are just franchises of the overarching beast system that wants to eradicate differentiation (when it comes to the eaten/demos, that is…The eaters of the world will own everything).
How did we get here?
In today’s home school lesson, my daughter’s geography book asked certain questions about the Poll Tax in America.
One of the questions was what amendment restricted the poll tax? (Answ: the 24th, ratified in the 1960s)
In any case, the Poll Tax question took my daughter and I down a philosophical rabbit hole about America’s founders, specifically John Adams, Franklin, Jefferson, and Washington.
You had great men arguing about who should lead this new land: the Aristocrats or the Demos?
Light bulbs were flickering on in my head all day today, about why many people here call myself and others who partake in discussion as fascists.
I asked my daughter if it was right that the Aristocracy created the Poll Tax to keep the Demos away from the voting booth; their argument of course being that when left without philosophers and statesmen, the people degenerate into debauchery: abandoning morals, reverting to violent sacrifice/scapegoating (liberalism obscuring this scapegoating at the heart of all culture), and in the end getting ruled by tyrants who swoop in when the ground is fertile for revering figureheads.
It was a good discussion. Is this why Heidegger implored us to look back at Nietzsche and the pre-Socratics (Heraclitus and Parmenides), because they were the ones who could enkindle a regenerated Dasein where the tyrants were the symptom of the people’s rule?
Perhaps.
But what about Christianity?
Tao Te Ching, D.C. Lau, LXXVII
Is not the way of heaven like the stretching of a bow?
The high it presses down,
The low it lifts up;
The excessive it takes from,
The deficient it gives to.
It is the way of heaven to take from what has in excess in order to make good
what is deficient. The way of man is otherwise. It takes from those who are in want in order to offer this to those who already have more than enough. Who is there that can take what he himself has in excess and offer this to the empire? Only he who has the way.

Heidegger: “Christianity is Platonism for the Masses.”
What if Christianity was actually the tempering force on the Aristocrats and the Demos alike? What if it permitted an Aristocracy but reminded the Demos of their value in God’s eyes, as well. The former the bow? The latter the string?
We need philosophers. And the people need to listen. Or else its just money games and fleecing into the horizon.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Apr 11 2025 2:13 utc | 175

Just an anecdotal note about toasters.
I use on a regular basis a toaster given by my uncle to my grandparents in 1928.
Yes, the on/off is plugging it into/out of the wall socket so toast timing is up to the user but it does provide a trick way of turning the toast over during the process.
I expect that the end of consumerism [profit driven consumption] will return humanity to making quality products that last like the toaster I have/use.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 11 2025 2:41 utc | 176

As an afterthought I found it on the intertubes
http://www.toastermuseum.com/scripts/toastercollection/toasters/514_01.html

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 11 2025 2:45 utc | 177

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 11 2025 2:45 utc | 179
###########
Very cool. Less and better stuff is the way to go.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 11 2025 2:52 utc | 178

“Just an anecdotal note about toasters. I use on a regular basis a toaster given by my uncle to my grandparents in 1928.”
Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 11 2025 2:41 utc | 178
That is an amazing anecdote. I have one, but not that good. I am in my sixties and I still daily use a set of tableware that my mom bought in Williamsburg, Virginia while we were on a memorable trip to the DC area in 1974 or so. Hogh-quality stuff.

Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 2:55 utc | 179

High-quality stuff, not “hogh-quality”. I thought I edited, but apparently not well enough.

Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 2:59 utc | 180

The tariff regime is reportedly breaking down. China is selling commodities and products by shipping to Vietnam first.
https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1910357439309816306

Posted by: unimperator | Apr 11 2025 3:08 utc | 181

Gold price popped through $3200, US 10 year bond 4.45%, US dollar index -1% or nearly under 100. There are decades when nothing happens and weeks when decades happen…

Posted by: unimperator | Apr 11 2025 3:19 utc | 182

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 10 2025 18:44 utc | 111
>>>
Didn’t we all here heard this narrative already 3 years ago about the Outlaw US of A containing and isolating the Russian Federation (RUF). How did that go at the end?

Posted by: pepe | Apr 11 2025 3:24 utc | 183

“Gold price!” and “Treasury bill interest rates!” And “stock market plunge!”. Lol, this board used to pretend to care so much about things like the genocide in Gaza and the even more bloody proxy war in 404. The truth is emerging now with Trump’s financial chaos. It’s all about the Benjamins..

Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 3:41 utc | 184

I have a set of wood handled steak knives made out of US steel which is stamped onto each blade and a number of other close to 100-year-old items along with items made back when people knitted and sewed their own clothing, table linens, blankets, etc. My wife keeps it going with her crocheting. Anyone recall Hope Chests, what they were for and filled with? We have one of those too that contains its original contents.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 11 2025 3:43 utc | 185

This is interesting. Can you give some specific examples of what this might look like?
It looks like the UK is already kindn of doing this as it stirs up emotions in the US that lean toward secession. The UK is always stirring to break up the USa. But no one here seems to notice it!
Posted by: Jane | Apr 11 2025 0:53 utc | 174
You again, Jane. You keep asking for damn examples. Why do you make me work so hard?
Anyways:
What you want is a combination of overt political interference and covert military interference with plausible deniability.
You want to stress the Empire on multiple fronts concurrently. Keep them running helter skelter from one end of the globe to the next, tripping over themselves as they go along – which they’re wont to do.
1. The Palestinian Front
Political Interference:
– Support UN resolutions that condemn Israeli actions, aligning with pro-Palestinian blocs in the Global South to isolate U.S. diplomacy.
– Amplify anti-U.S. sentiment via social media and state-controlled media outlets.
– Directly meet with Hamas representatives, offer asylum to the Hamas leadership and key representatives
– Withdraw support from the P.A, denounce Mahmoud Abbas et al.
Military Assistance:
– Indirectly provide cyber and signal intelligence support to groups like Hamas via Iranian intermediaries or dual-use tech sales through Chinese companies. Supply encrypted communications or drones via proxy networks.
2. The Syria Front
Political Interference:
– Identify the strongest opposition in Syria to the current western-led group and begin a political discourse with them in order to legitimise them further.
– Alternatively: Strengthen diplomatic and economic ties with the current head-chopper-in chief, or his direct opposition
– veto U.S.-backed UNSC resolutions, and promote reconstruction deals that bypass Western sanctions.
Military Assistance:
– Provide dual-use infrastructure (e.g., drone hangars or radar installations) under the guise of “reconstruction.”
– Deploy private military contractors (PMCs) sourced from Iraq and other Arab countries like those allegedly tied to Chinese state enterprises to support any budding Syrian Resistance air defense or logistics.
3. The Lebanon Front
Political Interference:
– Deepen ties with Hezbollah through infrastructure investments, telecommunications partnerships (e.g., Huawei), and academic/cultural exchanges to legitimize anti-U.S. narratives.
– Host representatives of the Hezbollah Secretary General for public discourse in Beijing
– Offer to rebuild Lebanese infrastructure
– Bribe whoever the Americans are currently bribing among the factions – using American money.
Military Assistance:
– Funnel advanced surveillance technology or drone components to Hezbollah via third parties in Syria or Iran, disguised as commercial shipments.
– Use the Chinese intelligence and commercial network to identify israeli intel operations to infiltrate supply chains
– Enable cyberwarfare training or capabilities targeting U.S. or Israeli assets.
4. The Taiwan Front
Political Interference:
– Increase aid and public support to pro-unification factions in Taiwan, manipulate public opinion via media disinformation campaigns, and increase economic pressure through trade bans and tourism restrictions.
Military Assistance:
– Conduct gray zone operations—fishing fleet swarms, drone incursions, and electronic warfare—under civilian cover.
– Increase joint exercises with Russia to stretch U.S. Pacific Command’s attention.
– Shoot down Taiwanese drones.
5. The Red Sea Front
Political Interference:
– Back narratives of U.S. neo-imperialism in Africa and the Middle East on a massive media scale. Hold commemorations of American Atrocities in the Middle East and Africa.
– Use BRICS and BRI platforms to pitch China as a neutral, stabilizing actor in contrast to U.S. military interventions.
Military Assistance:
– Provide intelligence or surveillance drones to Houthis via third countries (apparently this is already happening – go harder!).
– Use Chinese naval presence in Djibouti for “anti-piracy” that quietly supports anti-U.S. actors by turning a blind eye or providing tactical data.
6. The Philippines Front
Political Interference:
– Exploit political divisions between nationalist factions and pro-West elites.
– Leverage disinformation and economic coercion to influence election outcomes and local protests against U.S. military bases.
– Support the political objectives of the MILF
Military Assistance:
– Engage in sustained “civilian” maritime militia confrontations around disputed shoals.
– Deploy covert cyber operations targeting Philippine defense infrastructure to delay U.S. interoperability.
– Provide military training, intelligence, resource and support to the MILF
7. The Japan Front
Political Interference:
– Back anti-base movements in Okinawa via NGOs and social media. Raise the issue on behalf of Okinawans at the U.N
– Use business and academic networks to shape pro-China narratives among elites and youth, e.g study opportunities at Chinese universities
Military Assistance:
– Conduct drone and submarine incursions around disputed Senkaku Islands.
– Use dual-use vessels to challenge Japan’s maritime claims while avoiding open conflict.
This has been in play for some time already, they just need to crank it up a bit.
8. The Mexican/South American Front
Political Interference:
Support anti-U.S., left-wing populist regimes diplomatically and economically (e.g., Venezuela, Bolivia). Amplify narratives of U.S. economic imperialism and social unrest via media proxies.
Military Assistance:
– Funnel surveillance tools, encryption tech, or even anti-drone and anti-aircraft weapons through state-linked corporations or arms markets to criminal cartels or militias, further destabilizing U.S. southern borders. Ensure the weapons are targeted only to oppose large-scale military operations by the U.S
– Basically build up the cartels to become a National Resistance Movement against U.S interference.
9. The Ukraine-Russia Front
Political Interference:
– Undermine U.S. and EU ‘unity’ by promoting peace proposals that subtly favor Russia.
– Amplify war fatigue narratives in Western societies to erode public support for continued aid to Ukraine.
– Insert itself into the negotiations aggressively
Military Assistance:
– Supply dual-use technologies (e.g., chips, optics) via shell companies or North Korean intermediaries.
– Share satellite intelligence or cyber capabilities through “civilian” partnerships with Russia.
10. Thailand/Myanmar/Laos Axis
Political Interference:
– Bolster military-led or authoritarian regimes to create a regional bulwark against U.S. influence.
– Expand Belt & Road infrastructure in these countries to tie them into China’s economic orbit.
Military Assistance:
– Provide arms, surveillance gear, and satellite intel to Myanmar’s junta through nominal civilian firms.
– Enable training of special forces or police units under counter-terrorism cover.
– Use PLA factions to directly take on anti-Junta forces in Myanmar and eliminate them on behalf of the Junta.
Some of this may not taste very good from a moral standpoint, but one way or another China is going to be left eating shit if it doesn’t act – might as well be the chef of that particular dish.
I suspect a lot of this is actually going on, but it needs to go harder and louder. It needs to be aimed at getting the U.S to over-extend itself at an accelerated rate.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 11 2025 3:47 utc | 186

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 11 2025 3:43 utc | 187
There are lots of places in america where people still do this. You wouldn’t guess it by what you see on TV. When I was a teen I made cutlery on my grandfather’s forge. It wasn’t unusual.

Posted by: anonymous | Apr 11 2025 3:52 utc | 187

I have noticed that Exile is now more interested in US Treasury bond rates than the Merkava tank kill tallies.

Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 4:09 utc | 188

Yannis Varoufakis seems to think Trump will win the tariff war (against the EU – but not against the Chinese):
https://youtu.be/Ax7TtJrEcKQ?si=2Jpav8iWbVoMY3Im

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 11 2025 4:12 utc | 189

The significant jump in the Gold to Silver ratio by more than 10% in recent days is another indicator that substantial amounts are being rushed into safe havens other than US treasuries. Historically, such extreme movements in the GSR precede major market downturns. The big end of town is betting on an impending crash. Rise in unemployment figures over the course of 2025 likely to follow.

“Gold price!” and “Treasury bill interest rates!” And “stock market plunge!”. Lol, this board used to pretend to care so much about things like the genocide in Gaza and the even more bloody proxy war in 404. The truth is emerging now with Trump’s financial chaos. It’s all about the Benjamins..
Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 3:41 utc | 186

I’m surprised you are surprised that a thread dedicated to “Trump’s Market Whiplash Continues” has comments on gold price, interest rates and stock market reactions.
What’s an apt turn of phrase for someone struggling with the concept that the Gaza war crime and Ukraine have their own comment sections and finds it astonishing that people visiting this bar have insights and thoughts on multiple areas of interest?

Posted by: Juan Moment | Apr 11 2025 4:43 utc | 190

I’m surprised you are surprised that a thread dedicated to “Trump’s Market Whiplash Continues” has comments on gold price, interest rates and stock market reactions.
What’s an apt turn of phrase for someone struggling with the concept that the Gaza war crime and Ukraine have their own comment sections and finds it astonishing that people visiting this bar have insights and thoughts on multiple areas of interest?
Posted by: Juan Moment | Apr 11 2025 4:43 utc | 192
I never said I was surprised. I find it funny.

Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 4:48 utc | 191

In response to

I never said I was surprised. I find it funny.
Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 4:48 utc | 193

And what value does your ongoing responses like that add to the information sharing at the MoA bar?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 11 2025 4:57 utc | 192

Didn’t we all here heard this narrative already 3 years ago about the Outlaw US of A containing and isolating the Russian Federation (RUF). How did that go at the end?
Posted by: pepe | Apr 11 2025 3:24 utc | 185
There were wins and losses for the Empire:
The failures:
1. The Empire failed to contain Russia.Instead it strengthened the BRICS and proved that a world outside of the US-dominated world order was quite possible and feasible.
2. Economically, it’s strategy backfired and instead led to the increased risk of de-dollarisation and redirection of much global trade outside of SWIFT.
3. The credibility of it’s military technology and commitment to defence of it’s allies took a major hit as it was exposed as simply not being able to overcome Russian military commitment, tactics and technology in what would have been the most critical war fought on European territory in more than half a century
4. The moral and leadership credibility of the U.S has been completely destroyed in the eyes of the “Global South” (outside the Middle East). Africa, Central Asia, South/East Asia are now turning to Russia and China via the BRICS for credible leadership and “moral alignment”.
These were major failures – but failures that will fade from the memory of most of humankind within a decade. They are gains for the Russia-China-Iran Axis, but are they resilient gains?
What were the Empire’s Wins?
1. The U.S has broken the economic back of the EU, essentially completing the economic colonisation of Europe, in addition to the military colonisation achieved pos-WW2
2. Without involuntarily losing a single U.S Marine, the US has managed to reduce the Russian Military by at least 200 000 (seriously wounded, dead or otherwise made unfit to fight). It’s sat back and leisurely watched the Russians kill and maim potentially more half a million Ukrainians with a smile on its face.
3. While seeing its own military equipment embarrassed on the battlefield, the Empire has also had an opportunity to learn the capabilities and strategies of the Red Army. If it chooses to apply these lessons , they will be used against the Russians in future conflicts. If it learns the value of drones, hypersonic weapons, electronic warfare and pours all its resources in those directions … ?
4. The U.S has severed the link between Europe and Russia for perhaps the next half century without much cost to itself. It has essentially created a military, cultural, economic Imperial bulwark against the Russia-China-RoW axis.
5. Linked to the conflict in Ukraine, it’s exploited Russia’s preoccupation with Ukraine to destroy Syria, primarily by the hand of Erdogan, consolidating it’s domination of the Middle East. After seeing the fate of Assad (however much fools may try to blame Assad for the fall of Syria) every leader in the Middle East is now convinced that neither Russia nor the BRICS+ will defend them if he adopts a position contrary to the American position. All confidence in a Russian military umbrella has been discredited and therefore they will align their resources and capabilities with the West – if necessary against Russia.
But the worst part of all this, the real win for the Empire:
It has discovered that it can repeat the above wins, granted at some cost, over and over again over the next 50 years until it gradually bludgeons Russia into instability and a repeat of the collapse of the USSR by forcing it to throw the lives of it’s young men and women onto wars in Syria, Iran, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Chechnya, Afghanistan …?
From its safe perch on the other side of the Atlantic ocean, holding the puppet strings of weak, stupid and corrupt leaders in the West and some in Asia and almost all of the Middle East can simply play this game for the next few decades. Rolling the dice until it gets what it wants.
And it can count on the weakness, corruption and stupidity of most of the worlds leadership to let it recover whatever losses it makes in this tradeoff.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 11 2025 4:58 utc | 193

And what value does your ongoing responses like that add to the information sharing at the MoA bar?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 11 2025 4:57 utc | 194
None. Specci is the new resident asshole.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 11 2025 5:03 utc | 194

@ Arch Bungle | Apr 11 2025 5:03 utc | 196 with the follow up…thanks
Yeah, I get tired of newbie barflies coming in and pissing on the floor rather than trying to add value of some sort.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 11 2025 5:07 utc | 195

“And what value does your ongoing responses like that add to the information sharing at the MoA bar?”
Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 11 2025 4:57 utc | 194
Wow, the attacks seem to come out of nowhere sometimes!

Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 5:11 utc | 196

“None. Specci is the new resident asshole.”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 11 2025 5:03 utc | 196
Not purposely. I dislike echo-chambers and hierarchical talkboards because they always end up being rather boring and just factually wrong. I note you two cheering on the financialization of the talkboard, which would have been unheard of just four months ago.

Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 5:21 utc | 197

Wow, the attacks seem to come out of nowhere sometimes!
Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 5:11 utc | 198
Eeeek! Eeek! Im being attacked! heeeelp!
Wait for it … wait for it …
“Anti-semites!”
Boo hoo.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 11 2025 5:28 utc | 198

You should know full well Arch that I would never bitch at you or others here for being “anti-semites!”. I just try to point out some hypocrisy. Like the posters who just 3 months ago were so “concerned” about the Gaza genocide and the bigger tragedy in Ukraine, but who are now more concerned (no quotation marks) with gold prices and T-Bill rates and stock market swings.

Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 5:40 utc | 199

Posted by: Spectator | Apr 11 2025 5:40 utc | 201
You’d have to have been here for at least half a decade to know the conversation on these forums ranges from one topic to the next for a particular reason:
They’re not distractions from critical issues: They’re connected.
Key economic events are related to the Empire’s ability to continue perpetrating crimes like Gaza.
Wars against China and Russia are connected to the Empire’s actions in Palestine and Yemen.
Economics is the underlying connector between all these points.
Economics has been a recurring topic on this site for more than a decade – always in relation to geopolitics. Never in and of itself.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Apr 11 2025 5:46 utc | 200