Setback For U.S. 'Ceasefire' Deal In Ukraine
Secretary of State Marko Rubio, presidential envoy Steve Witkoff, several foreign ministers from Europe and the Ukrainian President Zelenski were supposed to meet in London today.
The Trump administration had planned this to be a final meeting over a ceasefire in Ukraine. A U.S. proposal for the ceasefire were to be discussed and accepted.
But Zelenski bailed out and the proposed meeting fell apart. According to the Independent Zelenski had feared to be "ambushed":
Actor turned statesman Volodymyr Zelensky may have only ever played a soldier, but as a war time leader he knows an ambush when he sees one.Having been trapped in the Oval Office and eviscerated by Donald Trump and JD Vance, he has avoided an enfilade from a crack team of American diplomats in the London kill zone by not turning up at all.
Tipped off that his intended target was not going to wander into his sights, the US team leader, secretary of state Marco Rubio, called off the operation altogether and stayed in Washington along with Steve Witkoff, Trump’s envoy to Vladimir Putin.
Keith Kellog, Trump’s envoy to Ukraine, who was already in London, has been left to observe peering through the privet while foreign secretary David Lammy squires the Ukrainian foreign minister for much downgraded “talks”.
At least the British hosts were not saddled with what could have been an historic mess in which Zelensky was presented with a US-Russian ultimatum and then painted as a rejectionist war monger when he said “nemaye” (no).
Other media are vague about the reasons to downgrade the talks. There is generally no common line in the media reporting of the issue. Axios claims that Ukraine rejected to negotiate a longer term ceasefire and instead only offered a shorter term:
A U.S. official involved in the discussions said Rubio and Witkoff worked together "to develop a framework to get us closer to reaching an end to the war."
- However, the official said that over the last 24 hours there had been indications from the Ukrainians that they wanted to discuss a 30-day ceasefire during Wednesday's meetings in London rather than Trump's peace plan framework.
- "The decision was made for the secretary to not travel to London. Instead, the U.S. delegation will continue to engage in conversations with U.K. and Ukrainian counterparts," the official said.
The U.S. ceasefire plan includes several points which either the Ukrainians, the Europeans or the Russians were certain to reject.
The Telegraph seems to have the most complete list of its points:
A source with knowledge of the plan’s contents said that its points one and two cover an immediate ceasefire and direct talks between Ukraine and Russia, which Mr Zelensky has already accepted in principle.Point three requires Ukraine to refrain from seeking membership of Nato, though the country would still be free to join the EU.
European countries could deploy an assurance force to deter Putin from invading again, but The Telegraph understands that the plan does not commit the US to guarantee the security of any such deployment.
...
Point four covers territory, with America offering de jure recognition of Russian sovereignty over Crimea, the region of Ukraine which Putin illegally annexed in 2014.
...
As well as some territory switching hands to Ukraine, the nuclear power station at Zaporizhzhia, the largest in Ukraine and currently held by Russian forces, would be transferred to American control.Under point six, Ukraine would sign the minerals deal allowing US companies access to the country’s natural resources.
Point seven raises the possibility of a new relationship between America and Russia, saying that all US sanctions would be lifted and the two countries could begin to co-operate on energy.
Zelenski does not want to concede any territory. He also does not want to sign the mineral deal which would eliminate all sovereign decisions abut Ukraine's resources. A longer war, during which billions of dollars and Euros keep flowing, is the best deal for him.
At least some Europeans still want to 'win' against Russia. They reject any lifting of sanctions. They want to insert 'peacekeepers' into Ukraine but only with U.S. backing.
Russia wants a bigger deal, not just a ceasefire in Ukraine, but a new European security architecture.
Claims by the Financial Times that Russia is willing to stop the war and to give up on its larger aims of demilitarizing and denazification of Ukraine have been rejected by Moscow. Russia will also not give up control of the nuclear power station in Zaporizhzhia.
The U.S. acceptance of Crimea as Russian territory is an interesting point but likely based on an ulterior motive. It would lift sanctions on Crimea and allow U.S. companies to take part in the exploitation of natural gas fields around it.
There is little the U.S. can do for now to press for a compromise. The best and most likely move is for Trump to wash his hands over Ukraine and walk away.
This would fit the larger plan of leaving the struggle with Russia to the Europeans while the U.S. will concentrate its forces in Asia for a potential conflict with China.
Posted by b on April 23, 2025 at 11:33 UTC | Permalink
next page »This is going to be Witkoff's 2nd failure, his first one being the botched peace deal in Gaza but perhaps that was intentional. Will Witkoff go for the hat trick and 'fail' w/Iranian negotiations? My money is yes. I'm going to buy a couple of put options today.
Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Apr 23 2025 12:03 utc | 2
So it was never an attempt to negotiate with Russia or even Ukraine. Just a maximal list of conditions for the US - presumably written to gain domestic approval.
bizarre
Posted by: Michael Droy | Apr 23 2025 12:05 utc | 3
My thoughts about these proposed peace plans:
"The dogs barked and the caravan moved on".
Russian will continue to relentlessly grind away until it accomplishes its goals. I can only hope the US plans (certain to be rejected by both Russia and Ukraine) are just a fig leaf for the US to walk away.
Posted by: ctiger | Apr 23 2025 12:11 utc | 4
Wow. Bargaining in bad faith, who woulda guessed. Twas ever thus.
Posted by: Tannenhouser | Apr 23 2025 12:12 utc | 5
NATO is repeating its war strategy from the 90s when it waged a nazi proxy war against Yugoslavia. Back then Germany & USA financed, armed and trained Einsatzgruppen to commit genocide against the Serb people again. Some of those Ustashe terrorists joined the Banderites after the nazi coup in 2014 to continue what they started during WW2 on the Ostfront. Ustashe and Banderites where part of the ABN that was created by Nazi Germany and supported by the West.
https://archive.org/details/operation-storm-1995
https://archive.org/details/european-neo-nazis-fight-on-croatian-side-1992
Posted by: balkanarchive | Apr 23 2025 12:16 utc | 6
The "West" is on another world...VVP and the siloviki are here on 🌍. The Russians will proceed with their plan, while the US are puffing up their chest.
It's almost humorous.
Posted by: donten | Apr 23 2025 12:17 utc | 7
The Americans and the Europeans are waging war on Russia; they have made that abundantly clear. The UK, France, and Germany are heavily involved. The Uk does not even pretend to hide its malice and hostility towards Russia, and its determination to kick the door in and steal everything they can. Repeating the lie about “Putin’s unprovoked invasion” will not change the reality, and is no longer regarded with anything other than derision.
When one of the parties to a conflict start trying to negotiate the end of hostilities, they are asking / demanding surrender by the other party. As far as Russia is concerned, that is never going to happen.
All the “negotiations “ are doing is making the West look like buffoons on the World stage.
Posted by: CitizenSmith | Apr 23 2025 12:22 utc | 8
The oddest term was letting the US just stroll into Zaporizhzhia, and take over the NPP.
Russia would be stupid to agree to that. You don't get to take territory back that you lost in a war.
Anyhoo, it's for the best that this whole charade collapsed. There is no way Ukraine would have honored any terms - they would have cheated and continued stupid suicide and drone attacks.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Apr 23 2025 12:24 utc | 9
Trump needs to take Macgregor's advice and pull out all our troops in Ukraine and use them to deal with our border in Mexico WHICH IS THE REAL THREAT TO AMERICA. TRUMP IS BREAKING HIS PROMISE OF PUTTING AMERICA FIRST.
Posted by: Fortuna | Apr 23 2025 12:25 utc | 10
For a wee shite with no power Tiny Dancer sure has the fools dancing to a merry tune, but but but, he has no power, no authority, he's just a booger flinger......but but but, what a booger flinger, eh. I do look forward to when the President of Russia gets to sit across the table form the President of the Ukraine, because without Tiny Dancer there will be no peace ever, without Whitehall calling the shots, Russia will never see peace never mind a cease fire......good luck Don.....
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Apr 23 2025 12:40 utc | 11
I've long thought that the issues were more on the UKR side than the RUS one. Bottom line is that while this war is "existential" for both sides (something Trump needs to realize), it is "more existential" for the UKR.
This means that UKR needs more pain to drive them to the table. That comes either from US dropping aid (although how to do that sensibly, after Trump has already vacillated?) Or from real RUS progress. Not muh attrition cope. But driving. Land, land, land. That is reality. Not lying about body count.
I still think we get some settlement on the line of contact (there is ZERO way that UKR will walk out of Kherson for instance). Putin can paper this over. After all, it is more than they had before. And they have an empire that stretches to the Pacific. And they'll waffle/settle something out on legalization and neutrality and the like. Those are also things Putin can "sell", even if the guarantees are weak. (He has a long history of doing this.)
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 12:41 utc | 12
Ho no ! Any form of bad faith "diplomacy" the US engaged in failed. What a shocking and terrible surprise for everyone !
Who would have thought the empire of lies wouldn't be able to secure anything by bringing nothing to the dialogue that wasn't already secured on the ground and it's continuation of arming, funding and providing of "intel" to the banderists ...
Guys ... please continue doing shit, it's very funny. And it's not schadenfreude for me.
Posted by: Savonarole | Apr 23 2025 12:47 utc | 13
Seems logical to look for a conclusive deal to soon be worked out, because the two central actors, USA vs. RUS, are both positively stating such a goal. May 9th is symbolic for Russia as the anniversary of WWII, and it also marks the end of Mars retrograde through the Twins, the two empires. Trump began this with his election promises at the beginning of the retrograde of Mars. Why not?
Posted by: Nothingburgers | Apr 23 2025 12:56 utc | 14
@12 - More pain is coming for Ukraine.
If Trump does nothing, aid ends. There was only $4B left in the Congressional authorization tranche from last April, 2024, when Biden drooled into his pudding and left town in his motorized scooter.
That was 3 months ago ... perhaps Trump has throttled it down to the point where a few last pennies might be left, but given the pace at which Biden was blowing money, it would have already run out.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Apr 23 2025 12:57 utc | 15
Does walking away mean no more US military support...sure looks like wish full thinking...
Posted by: Notlurking | Apr 23 2025 13:02 utc | 16
15:
I would not be surprised to see another aid package approved, which he will be required by courts to spend.
Congresscritters love spending money. And Republicans have a whisker-thin majority. And close to half of the Republicans are interventionists. So, Trump doesn't really have a MAGA majority.
Technically Trump could veto something, but he's already shown what a baby he is and how he talks tough and acts wimpy. He just wants it to "not be his fault", rather than using his powers to drive policies. Look how he got pushed around his first term. He just wants to bloviate with Sean Hannity. That's how he is. A big fat fake.
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 13:05 utc | 17
London Ukraine Talks Downgraded as Big Players Withdraw
https://www.rt.com/news/616137-ukraine-peace-talks-london-downgrade/
"...The meeting, initially set for Wednesday, was due to include top diplomats from the UK, the US, France, Germany and Ukraine. However the shut-down has been postponed and the discussions will now proceed at the level of officials, the UK Foreign Office has confirmed to AFP.
Ukrainian FM Andrey Sibiga is still expected to hold a bilateral meeting with UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy, according to Sky News.
Trump recently floated what was described as a 'final offer' to resolve the Ukraine conflict. The proposal would reportedly include 'de jure' US recognition of Crimea as part of Russia and unofficial recognition of Moscow's 'de facto' control over the Lugansk and Donetsk People's Republics, as well as the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions.
The plan is also said to include the lifting of certain sanctions against Russia and opposition to NATO membership for Ukraine.
A Financial Times report has claimed Moscow will be ready to freeze hostilities with Ukraine along the current front lines. Commenting on the report, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov remarked that 'a lot of fakes are being published now,' calling for people to rely only on 'the primary sources' of information."
Posted by: John Gilberts | Apr 23 2025 13:07 utc | 18
15:
It's also not just about aid, but about intel. And Trump already vacillated on that once. He could cut that immediately. Why didn't he leave it cut off until he got Z to the table, originally!?
Look how he said he was getting out of Afghanistan and Syria, during his first term and still didn't get it done in four (4!) years. He's a big baby...and the Deep State generals and diplomats will push him around. And he doesn't really care about actual results...just wants Fox News talking head time. Like his blond bimbo Attorney General.
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 13:09 utc | 19
Posted by: balkanarchive | Apr 23 2025 12:16 utc | 6
I'm presently reading Fools' Crusade - Yugoslavia, NATO and Western Delusions by Diana Johnstone. Amazing how the Yugoslav wars set the table for the proxy war in Ukraine. What is most disturbing is that the UN abdicated its role and handed over 'peacekeeping' responsibilities to NATO. Which is why no deal can be reached in Ukraine, as there are no impartial actors.
Posted by: Mike R | Apr 23 2025 13:12 utc | 20
I don't see Trump "walking away" as cutting aid/intel. It will be walking away from negotiations or responsibility/blame for the outcome. (Always what Trump is more interested in than results.) The policies of aid/intel will stay as is, on auto-pilot, perhaps with a modicum of more EUR funding. And the "pivot to Asia" will just be a PR thing.
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 13:12 utc | 21
Ghost of [email protected] you think the US ending aid and Intel to 404 seals the Peace for Russia......not a chance, the main controllers for the aggression against Russia are not in the US, nor do they need the US, they can continually, freely, fly Intel flights around Russia, get target data and if you are not familiar with Terrorism Britkrainia style, sit back, watch, and learn.
Any Russians thinking any agreement with the US secures peace for Russia, (they do dream of being Partners, Whitehall does not do partners) every inch of 404 now occupied by Russia will be contested.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Apr 23 2025 13:12 utc | 22
Setback?
You mean peace is gonna breakout between Europe and Russia?
Nah, mate.
Posted by: Keith | Apr 23 2025 13:14 utc | 23
"At least the British hosts were not saddled with what could have been an historic mess in which Zelensky was presented with a US-Russian ultimatum and then painted as a rejectionist war monger when he said “nemaye” (no)." The Independent
When did Russia agree to these conditions? Typical of western media to present this as a US/Russia joint effort. Actually, Zelensky saved Russia the trouble of rejecting this so-called agreement.
Posted by: Mike R | Apr 23 2025 13:16 utc | 24
@Anonymous
I would not rule anything out, but there is the reality that Trump would need to propose a package and Congress would need to approve it. Absent action from the executive, there is not going to be any more money, because there is simply no appetite nor a group in Congress with the political power to overcome Mike Johnson who will do whatever Trump wants.
Then there is the market crash. Soon, the US will be in a deep recession and the S&P below 4000. Revenue will crash in the 2H of 2025 and the US cannot keep funding wars in China, the ME, and Europe.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Apr 23 2025 13:16 utc | 25
There is no negotiations with the pianist and his controller's.
The Russians are going to have to conclude this conflict the hard way.
The pianist knows that if he doesn't toe the line wrt his EU /NATO backers.
He's dead.
This won't stop a while yet.
Posted by: jpc | Apr 23 2025 13:22 utc | 26
Yeah I have to agree, the best way to bring the little Neo-Naz dictator to the negotiating table - is for Trump to stop any weapons and all funding to the nasty regime in Ukraine, that would soon get the little Hitler, to the table.
But I suppose that too has its problems - cut the aid and access to Ukrainian minerals might not happens as quickly as Trump wants - or Russian forces could quickly take more land that contains sought after minerals; as for the EU's warhawks, they are determined to make their own peoples lives a misery - and destroy their economies, to keep on propping up a vile nasty regime in Ukraine - though I'd say for the EU bigwigs - such as Kallas, and von der Leyen, its more about trying hurt Russia - than defending the Neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine.
"Moscow does not view US Vice President J.D. Vance’s call for Russia and Ukraine to accept a Washington-formulated truce as an ultimatum, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov has said.
On Wednesday, Vance said that President Donald Trump’s administration had presented a “very explicit proposal” to the principal parties in the Ukraine conflict, stating, “It’s time for them to either say yes or for the United States to walk away from this process.” During a press conference the same day, Peskov dismissed a journalist’s characterization of Vance’s comments as an ultimatum.
“The US continues its mediation efforts, and we certainly welcome them,” he said. “Nuanced discussions of proposals for a resolution are essential to bridge differences.”
The Trump administration awaits responses from Ukraine and the European NATO members supporting Kiev about a roadmap toward a compromise peace deal that was shared with them last week. Ukraine’s Vladimir Zelensky has already cast doubt on the feasibility of the proposal by publicly dismissing some of the suggestions reportedly made by US officials."
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 23 2025 13:26 utc | 27
🇪🇺🇺🇦🇺🇸 Macron’s Office Issues Ultimatum to U.S.: ‘Territorial Integrity of Ukraine Is a Non-Negotiable Demand for Peace Talks’
the french should better get those white flags out of their pantry.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Apr 23 2025 13:27 utc | 28
There is little the U.S. can do for now to press for a compromise. The best and most likely move is for Trump to wash his hands over Ukraine and walk away.
<= I have said over and over again that the USA cannot negotiate any peace deal with Russia because the greedy anti Russian players are in Europe .. Let the UK and French instigators take Russia on.. without USA support financial, propaganda,or monetary..
Next, IMO Trump should make my proposed deal with Russia,
Russia to build a pipeline to the USA, the USA to refine package and sell Russian oil and gas back to wartime Europe.
and forget any thing to do with the war in Ukraine. Business as usual for the USA.
Russia is not a threat to the USA.. leave Russia alone.. Russia is not a threat to EU either IMO.. Russian threat is not the reason for this war, its the Oligarch powered greed and the European NATO leadership intent to take Russian resources from the Russians who live there.
IMO, Germany would do well to make amends w\Russia reinstate the NordStream II pipleline and get on with its business.
In my estimation Germany should return the favor to the European bastards that turned the whole world against Germany twice, once in WWI and again in WWII. ironically for the same reason the Europeans are against Russia today. These Europeans have cost Germany its successful economy for the third time since 1913.
The world does not need war, it needs to find a way to force its governments to work to improve the quality of life for all persons who live on this earth. To do that the obscene wealth in the hands of the few needs to be redistributed. The more equal the distribution the less likely is war.
Posted by: snake | Apr 23 2025 13:33 utc | 29
Its interesting - how two of the most die-hard Ukrainian/Neo-Nazi regime supporting nations, are now willing to surrender some Ukrainian territory in order for some sort of ceasefire/peace deal to be made - both France and Britain had been making noises about sending troops/fighter jets to Ukraine to bolster the dictatorship.
Trump needs to quickly wash his hands of this conflict, or he will be ever known for its continuation - it will become Trumps war, a war the USA cannot win - washing his hands of it, will soon bring the EU into line, as they do not have the weapons to keep on supplying the nasty regime in Ukraine - and Russia could advance at a pace and end the conflict - but, Trump wants the minerals in Ukraine so he's dragging his heels.
"The UK and France are “open to a scenario” in which Kiev would concede territory to Russia in exchange for Western security guarantees and aid, the Wall Street Journal has reported, citing an insider.
London and Paris have emerged as the leading backers of Kiev’s war effort against Russia, after US President Donald Trump announced his intention to distance America from the crisis. Washington expects Ukraine and its European NATO allies to respond this week to its proposed compromise truce before presenting it to Moscow.
European leaders are wary of acknowledging Russian sovereignty over Crimea and freezing the hostilities along the current front lines – concepts reportedly outlined by Trump administration officials in Paris last week – the WSJ said on Tuesday. According to the newspaper’s source, the UK and France would prefer a deal with no formal territorial changes, “like the cease-fire that ended the Korean War.”"
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 23 2025 13:36 utc | 30
The Trump Line in Moscow Revealed by Vzglyad and Yevgeny Krutikov
https://johnhelmer.net/the-trump-line-in-moscow-revealed-by-vzglyad-and-yevgeny-krutikov/
"Yevgeny Krutikov is a former Russian military intelligence officer in the Balkans who now writes politico-military analyses for Vzglyad. Because of the intentions of his sources and their target audience, Krutikov's papers are more a bellwether of formal policy thinking than influencer of policy decisions yet to be made.
Krutikov has just published a report entitled 'How will the reform of the State Department affect Russia's interests'. This is an analysis of a New York Times publication of the day before, reporting the leak of a 'draft of a Trump administration executive order proposes a dramatic restructuring of the State Department'..."
Posted by: John Gilberts | Apr 23 2025 13:36 utc | 31
@ b
"This would fits the larger plan of leaving the struggle with Russia to the Europeans while the U.S. will concentrate its forces in Asia for a potential conflict with China.
This has been the plan for a while now ...
Posted by: Don Firineach | Apr 23 2025 13:38 utc | 32
§| Hegseth over at DoD looking shaky, with details of a second Signal opsec failure. “They” (media-warjunkies) are certainly waging a campaign to dislodge him, …. But he didn’t have to help so generously by being so retarded….
If Hegseth is the first casualty of Trump’s 2.0 cabinet, does that leave the Kellogg contingent with the “cards” ?
~~
§| Lavrov a few minutes late for a zoom Security Council meeting with Putin.
He’d been holding a press conference with the Iranian FM.
Karl might swing by ? with more details on what was stated re the Iranian ask of Russia re the U$ pressure on Iranian nuclear situation.
= Team Trump beginning to grasp foreign relations is a messy jengo puzzle….
And every piece they go to pull on… there’s Russia. : Ukraine/ Iran/ China/ Syria/ Turkiye…
~~
§| Emir of Qatar in Moscow, meeting with Putin (and Lavrov, and Kadyrov )
Karl might have more on that also… ?
Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 23 2025 13:39 utc | 33
Between this and China dumping Boeing, for home made planes - the economic pain levels across the West are only set to rise.
"The latest prototype of Russia’s new SJ-100 Superjet airliner, built entirely from domestically produced components, has successfully completed its first test flight, state-owned defense conglomerate Rostec has announced.
The program to replace all Western-made parts on the regional passenger aircraft was launched in response to the sweeping sanctions imposed Russia’s aviation industry by the US and EU after the escalation of the Ukraine conflict in 2022.
The third prototype of the Superjet took to the skies in the city of Komsomolsk-on-Amur in Russia’s Far East, Rostec said in a statement on Wednesday.
During the test, the fully import-substituted plane demonstrated good controllability and stability in the air, the statement read. All Russian-made systems on the aircraft operated consistently."
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 23 2025 13:40 utc | 34
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Apr 23 2025 13:12 utc | 22
I never said that peace was coming. I wrote that more pain for UKR is coming.
The US pulling out means that the junior varsity team is left to support the booger-flicker, as you put it.
And the UK is looking awfully weak, they just caved to the French surrender monkeys on trade.
Come to think of it, "coalition of the surrender monkeys" has a nice ring to it.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Apr 23 2025 13:44 utc | 35
The Trump administration awaits responses from Ukraine and the European NATO members supporting Kiev about a roadmap toward a compromise peace deal that was shared with them last week. Ukraine’s Vladimir Zelensky has already cast doubt on the feasibility of the proposal by publicly dismissing some of the suggestions reportedly made by US officials."
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 23 2025 13:26 utc | 27
Trump has now power over Zelensky and his zionazi junta, just as he has no power over Miliekowski and Israel. He couldn't make either to abide by the ceasefires he negotiated. The Ukraine kept striking Russia's energy infrastructure every single day during the 30-day ceasfire. No one even talks about the proposed Black Sea ceasefire anymore. The supposed military equipment and intelligence sharing pause during the rounds of negotiations were nothing but a charade while both kept flowing freely to the Ukraine. Nothing can stop US generals from sharing intelligence with the UK and therefore Ukraine as was being observed during the "pause". Trump can't pull out of project Ukraine because Ukraine = Israel. MAGA = MIGA.
Posted by: 5thcolumn | Apr 23 2025 13:44 utc | 36
Trump has NO power over Zelensky and his zionazi junta
Correction for Apr 23 2025 13:44 utc | 36
Posted by: 5thcolumn | Apr 23 2025 13:47 utc | 37
25, Z-anon:
There is no requirement for the President to originate legislation. Congress passes all kinds of laws (to include spending authorizations) without a request from the President. He comes in (or not) at signing/vetoing.
I also don't think that recession will affect Congressional decisions. They love spending money. It is no sweat off their butts.
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 13:47 utc | 38
“Lammy squires the Ukrainian”
Lol - that’ll at least be a cute little ‘picanniny’ child…Never mind. Not a great joke.
It does sound like they were all warned off, from looking even stupider.
The changing of the losing old guard has already begun.
The Banker bosses know they are cornered.
Rubio probably was told not to attend.
Witkof has already made the surrender deal.
This is just going through the motions of grief and prepping the public.
Some last minute denial before the acceptance.
Some deck chair shuffling on their sinking mega yachts.
The dynastic Bankers will be arguing between themselves over the scraps. Like hyenas.
There is no possibility of a ‘legal’ deal signable by the expired dickactor.
If he had already done a secret deal with the Bankers when he was still legal that might hold some water. But not in the now Russian territories or maybe even in future ones after the peace deals of their citizens vote to leave ukropia and Go East with their fellow Russian speaking Slavs.
If he did a secret ‘100 year’ treaty with the City, it may or may not hold water, depending on when it was concluded. Beyond May last year after his term expired or before HerrKyirStarmztrooper moved in at No10.
Also why do people keep forgetting - Shelensky long ago made a law barring himself , or any current or future leadership from having any negotiations with the RF. and the letter ‘Z’!
Denazification will happen in the new Incorporated RF territories, even as the original Nazis try to stop RF diplomats from ceremonies at Concentration Camps in Europe the Red Army liberated. Camps which killed a lot more Soviets, Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists than any other group.
Demilitarisation will continue while the crazies still throw themselves into the mincer.
Seen more vids of sane ukropians dropping their weapons and running to the Russian lines escorted by drones.
They all know they are fucked and are hoping for their 5th Columnists in the Russia zioligarchy to take over once VVP departs and their blackmailer ties and control of their westernised kids and grand kids is reasserted.
Lavrov said it openly today!
100 Days of Drumpff 47 - He needs to Dump or Get off the Pail!
Truth Time. Threats to withdraw from West Asia taking their ziofascist illegal apartheid entity colonialists with and even from Africa! Make it so Don!
As usual the first offer by the Russkies was their best, now each version auto asphyxiates the Collective Wastes Shapeshifter Dynasties and there is No Appetite in the populations to join up and die for KingandCunttery; knowing ’we’ have NO superiority over the well armed, supplied and now very experienced Eternal Army’s next gen.
Their only hope is the 5th columnists and squiring as many ukropian women to make a future generation of deluded ziofascist owned Nazis to try again.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Apr 23 2025 13:54 utc | 39
Typically, because the executive controls the armed forces as CiC, Congress doesn't authorize supplementary funding for military adventures. The Congress does authorize Pentagon spending levels through the budgetary process, but we already had a CR passed for the rest of the year. So, the DoD budget is set, barring some emergency funding bill which I find unlikely unless the recipient is Israel. We know that they're the real favorite.
It's not impossible that some group within Congress could start making noise for more money for Project Ukraine once the last Biden-bucks run out, and my likely suspects would be in the Senate.
But assuming Trump is pissed enough and really wants to walk away, all he has to do is phone Mike Johnson and say "tell 'em to pound sand." Johnson controls the House floor and all spending bills must originate in the House.
My theory is that soon the US will have bigger problems than sending a few billion to the shredder.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Apr 23 2025 13:54 utc | 40
When you’re talking about the Ukrainians and Europeans, they really hoping Sec Rubio would attend the London talks, but after Zelensky’s disparaging & skeevy remarks and his rejecting basic tenets of The Plan, they all realized how down-graded the talks would be and opted to rebuff the process altogether.
That left Gen Kellogg in a room practically by himself.
Macron then provided *covering fire* for Zelensky by stating that there was no way France would accept territorial concessions to Russia in any kind of Plan.
The FT, in a panic, posted an article indicating VVP had hinted to Witkoff that Russia would be wiling to freeze the conflict on the current line of contact and stepping back from demanding that the entirety of the 4 oblasts would belong to Russia. All of this was according to unnamed sources.
The FT moreover reported that VVP had said that once Russia liberated the Kursk Region, then he would be amenable to freezing the conflict.
Peskov put the kibosh on FT’s reportage, however, stating that one had to adhere to “primary sources” when attempting to ‘read the tea leaves,’ as it were.
So the FT was trying to give VVP the Bum’s Rush: here’s you hat, what’s your hurry, sign on the line, thx
Plenty of UK-derived fake news swirling about. Plenty of cheap drama.
Commonsensically, Arestovich said Ukraine *should* in fact concede to Russia the entirety of the 4 oblasts, “For one simple reason, because in six months or a year you will give away 6 oblasts.” If you don;t have “enough brains to take the offer now, then you will give away 8 oblasts.”
JD kind of polluted the atmosphere by saying that "the U.S. had presented a very explicit proposal" and that it was "time for Ukraine and Russia either to say yes or for the U.S. to walk away from the process."
Gentlemanly, Peskov turned aside any notion of an ultimatum hailing from JD: "The U.S. continues its mediation efforts, and we certainly welcome them."
We were always told during Collective Biden that this war would last "for as long as it takes." Now we see that Antony B and Jake and Lloyd the Third were really quite prescient. The SMO will end w/ Russia's terms no matter *how long it takes.*
Posted by: steel_pocurpine | Apr 23 2025 13:55 utc | 41
Denmark gives 48million dollars today to Ukr for shells...
Posted by: Jo | Apr 23 2025 13:59 utc | 42
"Trump has now power over Zelensky and his zionazi junta"
5thcolumn (36).
I known Trump has converted to Judaism - and yes he is beholden to the rich Zionists some of who funded his campaign, and who have compelled him to defend Israel at all costs - and he will, but he could also be shall we say treading lightly with Zelensky to ensure US firms obtain the rights to sought after minerals in Ukraine - of course removing Zelensky might be an easier option in the long run - but as you point out Zelensky might have powerful friends in high places - that stops such an action from happening.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Apr 23 2025 14:01 utc | 43
Yeah yeah. The war started during obama but it's biden's war. Trump kept the genocide and biolabs going but it's biden's war. A machine signed the papers in place of Biden or his actor, so it's not biden's war.
Now the most middle eastern midget shitpile looking one out of all those j00s can just refuse to come to meetings and everyone else and their country is instantly forgiven. They should give the middle eastern midget a few more billion and a few hundred slaves and beg him to join his countrymen on some luxury parasite, uh, paradise island. Maybe then all of us could be friends and have hockey matches again, until the next j00 starts the next world war.
Why doesn't Russia just let China or Iran or someone in the global South develop those minerals instead of giving them to the americans?
Posted by: Jack M | Apr 23 2025 14:02 utc | 44
I seem to recall quite a while ago Shoigu saying that military budget for smo was planned until end of 2025....seems more realistic...maybe should be recalculated extended?
Posted by: Jo | Apr 23 2025 14:02 utc | 45
One thing has not changed in two years.
The aims of the SMO.
It will be over when Russia says it is over and not a minute sooner.
As the fighting drags on, the Russians have found new ways to fight that reduce their casualties as the attacker, blowing away the traditional 3:1 force power ratio "necessary" to conduct offensive operations.
Trump's pathological lying is becoming apparent to everyone as a few have memories of what was said and announced last week.
Gaza, Iran, China, Russia, etc. he keeps claiming something is almost done when nothing is and consequences don't arrive.
It's gone from funny to sad.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 23 2025 14:03 utc | 46
And it is amusing to me because it is the Art of the Deal to under promise and over deliver according to Trump himself.
This is what desperation looks like.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 23 2025 14:05 utc | 47
US is not agreement capable. EU with no army is openly aggressive. UK and France are crackers. Germany is insolent.
Putin is going to bleed them all.
It will stop when the next neocon lib president gives in.
Posted by: paddy | Apr 23 2025 14:05 utc | 48
Michael J @1: "Point of intrests,will US engage if nato article 5 triggered and Odessa."
And put off its war with China for years more to come? No chance. The US is already out of time to try and force China to kneel. Every minute that passes swings the global battlefield further in China's favor. If the Empire doesn't act now then the golden moment will pass forever and the US will be left in the Thucydides Trap all by itself.
Trump is trying to get the best deal he can for the Ukraine (and of course for the US... that's his job, after all), but he doesn't have unlimited time or patience. Unlike the delusional Swamp creatures, Trump knows there is no chance of forcing Russia to submit in the time available, and the pivot to full-spectrum confrontation with China needs to be done like yesterday. Having Russia on the Empire's side, as a vassal or a junior partner, would make the fight with China less dubious, but leashing Russia anytime soon is out of the question. This leaves Trump with the sole option of switching on the charm and trying to wheedle Russia into helping.
That said, Trump/the Empire doesn't have time to see if the charm offensive works against Russia. The Empire has to take on China now even if it means going it alone ("allies" like the EU, UK, Australia, and Canada are basically useless and having them covering your back is essentially the same as going it alone).
Remember, the Empire's real target has always been China.
Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 23 2025 14:06 utc | 49
snake 29:
I've seen this pipeline proposal before. (Perhaps from you.) It makes zero sense.
1. The US is already a net exporter of natural gas. It makes zero sense to send it the the US, which is oversupplied and has a hard time reexporting. (Building an LNG plant takes over 5 years and over $10B and even then you have a very inefficient mode of transport that wastes about 1/4 of the natural gas on cooling/transport.)
2. An oil pipeline makes no sense economically. Oil is easily moved on tankers, for a few percent of the per barrel price.
3. A pipeline to the US would be about ten times longer than the longest undersea pipeline.
4. It would also need to cross the depths of the Atlantic mid-ocean, for thousands of kms, at a depth deeper than the deepest ever undersea pipeline, in the GOM (or GOA if you prefer, haha).
5. Such a project would take immense capital spending and take over 5 years, likely over 10. So, zero immediate impact. After which, the geopolitical situation could have changed immensely. No private investors will risk it...would need to be a government massive moneypit investment.
6. Such a pipeline would be very vulnerable to sabotage. Look at Nord Stream. (And investors will weigh that risk before investing.)
7. There are other issues with a possible route. Going through the Arctic would be almost impossible (to lay the cable). Going through the Baltic would (still) require permission from Denmark. (Who we are busy screwing with, on the crazy Greenland silliness.)
8. The natural market for Russian oil/gas is Europe. And the natural supplier for Europe is Russia. They are right next to each other. This is by far the most economically common sense thing. Not your crazy idea to send to America (via pipe!) and then by ship back to Europe.
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 14:07 utc | 51
...
"This would fit the larger plan of leaving the struggle with Russia to the Europeans while the U.S. will concentrate its forces in Asia for a potential conflict with China."
Brilliant!
The US wants to stop pretending it's helping Ukraine to win a war with Russia. And now wants to start pretending that it wants a US war with China.
Imo, it will take fewer than 2 weeks for China to persuade the Yankees that a war with China won't be as much fun as they'd hoped it would be.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 23 2025 14:11 utc | 52
Remember, the Empire's real target has always been China.
Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 23 2025 14:06 utc | 49
####
Funny cope. 😂😂😂
The US can't handle Zelensky or Ansar Allah.
China is the greatest nation state opponent ever.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 23 2025 14:14 utc | 53
“U.S. to walk away from the process."
The “tough guy” act never ends. Why bother saying Asians care about “face”? Seems concern about appearances is universal.
Posted by: I forgot | Apr 23 2025 14:15 utc | 54
In the SMO, Russia now has a blank slate: everything is new. They know the pitfalls, they know the adversary’s capabilities (or lack thereof), they know the missteps the adversary makes practically before they happen. Russia has always shaped the battlefield, even during that period of August 2022 when Russian Forces performed a strategic withdrawal from the Izyium area east of Kharkiv in order to regroup, consolidate and start fortifying what would become the Surovikin Line.
Russia can go full-tilt boogie on its current offensives: toward Sumy, toward Konstantinovka, toward Zaparhozia & more. Chowing down on the oblasts. Mulching the AFU. Pedal to the metal times forthcoming.
Posted by: steel_pocurpine | Apr 23 2025 14:18 utc | 55
Posted by: Nothingburgers | Apr 23 2025 12:56 utc | 14
‘’Mars rétrograde ‘’. ?
—Mars began its retrograde on Dec.8, and Trump, as pres.elect, traveled to Paris to meet with Macron and Zelensky to discuss ending the Ukraine war. This occurred Dec. 7
—Mars rétrograde reached its maximum on Feb. 24, on this day the UNSC passed the US resolution #2774 calling for peace in Ukraine! This followed the earlier Trump-Putin phone call and meetings at Munich and then Riyadh of Feb. 12, 14-16, 18, respectively. This was followed by the draft minerals agreement of Feb 25, and the infamous White House meeting on the 28th.
— Mars returns to its start point, concluding the retrograding, on May 3. ? So then what?
BTW, the intent behind this post isn’t astrology or fortune telling, but rather an attempt to imagine what is going on with the wizards behind the curtain, ie. the new world order Kabbalist who apparently run this planet.
Posted by: Nothingburgers | Apr 23 2025 14:18 utc | 56
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 23 2025 14:14 utc | 53
RE: U.S. can't manage Zelensky any more than it can manage Ansar Allah
<<
Zelensky would have better luck shooting down MQ Reaper Drones
Posted by: steel_pocurpine | Apr 23 2025 14:21 utc | 57
The 'plan' just clown world cone crazy, with points like this:
As well as some territory switching hands to Ukraine, the nuclear power station at Zaporizhzhia, the largest in Ukraine and currently held by Russian forces, would be transferred to American control.The US has lost the war against Russia in Ukraine, it is time that fact sinks in.
Time to declare victory and leave.
Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 23 2025 14:22 utc | 58
The US position is so weak that all they can offer Russia is what Russia already has.
The world is watching and American prestige is evaporating.
I asked the bar dozens of times last year after the election what Trump had that Putin needed.
As we are seeing, nothing.
I think this situation speaks volumes by how America cannot walk away from this and leave it to the EuroNazis.
Zugzwang is beautiful.
Trump has to make a move somewhere but every move makes his position worse.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 23 2025 14:32 utc | 59
Agreed Trump has nothing to offer Putin other than "making a lot of money" with the US, in other words sell out Russia for money. Even the sellouts have got to be thinking that money can be frozen at any time, even the traitors have to think twice.
Posted by: silverfoxes | Apr 23 2025 14:37 utc | 60
LoveDonbass @53: "China is the greatest nation state opponent ever."
True, and it is only getting greater for the foreseeable future; nevertheless, the Empire must try to defeat China. It doesn't have a choice. It is do or die time.
Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 23 2025 14:38 utc | 61
Fact: Ukraine was seemingly willing to give up 20% of its land so long as it was considered a "de facto" recognition of the territory and not "de jure."
The Kremlin rejected this outright.
Earlier, the most powerful female politician in the world made it abundantly clear to those watching and listening.
In case you do not know, I am referring to Ms Valentina Ivanovna Matviyenko (VIM) who eloquently said:
"Never will Russia allow it to happen” ...... "It’s impossible and unrealistic.” meaning Western troops on the ground;
"And as for their regular meetings and get-togethers, let them amuse themselves." meaning meetings are pointless.
There you have it.
The Outlaw US of A must walk away and unconditionally surrender.
Back to square one.
Posted by: pepe | Apr 23 2025 14:40 utc | 62
The absence of Ukraine could, if that was the real objective, be used to drop the hot potato.
If it is not dropped soon something else should be assumed.
Now for a bizarre detail. The ZNPP thing…
Maybe, just maybe, trump knows it’s a question of time before a defeated AFU/mi6 decides it’s the last and unavoidable move and it was always within range of easy artillery attack. Saying “is manages ZNPP” might be a way of saying an attack there is a nuke on us interests.
There are other ways to deal with the problem (including London and Galicia being named as targets of anything happens) but the us is known to be a credible threat up to nukes used.
On the other hand it would be, if supported by us assets, a stop on any attempts by RF to take the remainder of the western oblasts. So I have some issues about RF accepting it.
Posted by: Newbie | Apr 23 2025 14:45 utc | 63
Zelensky would have better luck shooting down MQ Reaper Drones
Posted by: steel_pocurpine | Apr 23 2025 14:21 utc | 57
####
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Ukraine's abilities top out at NATO's capabilities.
NATO can't even bring the Kerch bridge down.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 23 2025 14:47 utc | 64
You forgot point 8.
All the hottest girls in Ukraine from 16-19 are to be shipped over to the US every 3 years where they will work in the entertainment industry for 3 years before returning home.
Zelenskyy had no problem with this as hot boys were not involved in the deal.
Posted by: Ogre | Apr 23 2025 15:03 utc | 65
The war will end when Ukraine runs out of army. Ukrainian elites will fight to the last Ukrainian to keep the money flowing.
Trump clearly intends to walk away before the collapse begins and leave the UK and the EU to take responsibility for the loss.
Posted by: SB | Apr 23 2025 15:13 utc | 66
Daily DS update: https://deepstatemap.live/en#6/49.4383200/32.0526800
Overall: A very poor day, only taking 4.6 kmsq. One fifth of the per day, NOV2024 pace of advance.
Specific changes, S to N:
1. Fields S of Tarasivka, and entrance into village. This is on the far E flank of Pokrovsk. In this area, RFA has for months been unable to get to "the interchange" and cut the supply road. Now they are swinging even further on the flanks. Still some distance to go and unforunately the road bends N, so a longer distance to go.
2. Fields NW of NY. (W of Nelipivka.)
3. A few blocks within Toretsk.
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 15:12 utc | 324
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 15:13 utc | 67
Suriyak has walked back a bunch of purported advances, where he was ahead of DS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgcwNPGRXDc (see map discussion at ~12:00). Or you can also check out Geroman's Twitter, where he has several times reposted the Suriyak walk backs. If you follow these things, this is not new. DPA even charted Suriyak (and Divgen!) for a few weeks and showed them being too optomistic and having to reverse themselves later.
Just something to keep in mind, given all the DS hate. And I'm not saying he doesn't have occasional cope in the opposite direction. But it's why I like how Willy, or even Wyatt, look at multiple sources and basically only crediting a RFA advance when the UFA admits it, or a UFA advance when the RFA admits it.
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 15:20 utc | 68
@ Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 14:07 utc | 51
You’re overlooking the most compelling objection to snake’s cockamamie proposal:
There’s nothing in it for Russia.
Posted by: malenkov | Apr 23 2025 15:27 utc | 71
@Exile | Apr 23 2025 15:26 utc | 69
Rollback of NATO to 1997 members"NATO anno 1948" seems more plausible by now.
Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 23 2025 15:29 utc | 72
Actually, Zelensky saved Russia the trouble of rejecting this so-called agreement.
Posted by: Mike R | Apr 23 2025 13:16 utc | 24
I suspect that Zelensky was warned off by UK. Starmer is the inheritor of MI6 scheming and very expensive support for the Nazi regime for decades. He cannot afford the damaging publicity from a real time collapse of a major London summit. Better to foist the failure on Zelensky, who can afford it. It was intended to consolidate the alliance of the noisy and willing for Trump's benefit. It certainly had no other prospect of success, as Macron's rapid distancing showed. Nor is there any other prospect of a settlement. Putin is obliged to pay diplomatic lip service, but any solution which leaves hostiles on the Russian border is impossible. Zelensky presides over a hollow fascist shell, with his countrymen very sensibly voting with their feet (those not currently driving BMWs). But he stands to gain nothing from peace except the prospect of hanging from a lamppost in Kiev. European belligerents will settle for nothing less than the total Yeltzinification of Russia by economic shock therapy. The globalists underpinning their power structure are unconcerned about public opinion, even if it is economically disasterous. Indeed, the entire tragicomedy is dedicated to neofeudalism.
Peace will only arrive with pain. The real question is global alternatives. If Russia and China weld themselves into an autarky, a unit which can motivate other countries by mitigating the US threat to their economies, then war becomes unattractive. But if the West can pick off their allies and resources (as in Syria) then nothing short of popular rebellion can put the globalists out to pasture. Russia cannot be autarkic by itself. The challenge is much larger than that, and even winning in Ukraine will not protect it. China will have to prepare itself for a struggle as great as the Long March.
Posted by: Tom Paine | Apr 23 2025 15:49 utc | 74
Let us compare Russia, US and Europe.
Russia develops a passenger plane that uses Russian tech (Sukhoi Superjet 100).
In the USA, Boeing gets the contract for the F-47 fighter. You could say thatafter Lockheeds F-35, it's Boeing's turn at the pork barrel.
In Europe, after burning two billion, Airbus stops development of a hydrogen passenger jet "Airbus Zero".
In all three cases it's government money. Who do you think got the best deal?
Posted by: Passerby | Apr 23 2025 15:50 utc | 75
[for] "Zelensky...a longer war, during which billions of dollars and Euros keep flowing in, is the best deal for him".
True that, it's all about the Benjamins for Zelensky & today's Galician SS.
As for ending the war itself through negotiations and/or, US withdrawal of support, Rubio convinced Trump to reverse his earlier sensible actions 'cause "I got this" and failed miserably.
It's Rubio's war now the little prick wants to run in 2028, get a big tar brush out out of the bucket and tar the man with his duplicity. Yes that's right.
Fire Rubio, withdraw support until Zelensky, his merry band of SS-men and the Crimean 2.0 crowd in Europe offer terms that the Kremlin can accept.
If I may offer some advice to Trump vis-à-vis Rubio
You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free
Ooh, slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
You just listen to me
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free
Posted by: S Brennan | Apr 23 2025 15:50 utc | 76
Trump's negotiations are all Kabuki Theatre. Brian Berletic is right
Look at Project 2025 by the Heritage Foundation, it lays out the plan in detail. Trump is fulfilling the plan and maintaining a continuity of agenda for the US. It is all about creating chaos everywhere with the purpose of maintaining US hegemony. Yes, it is delusional and evil. Is that surprising?
Posted by: Perimetr | Apr 23 2025 15:53 utc | 77
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 15:12 utc | 324
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 23 2025 15:13 utc | 67
Another AD but little else. Still o 1.300ish
Summary of the last day
During the day, the Armed Forces of Ukraine defeated manpower and military equipment in 141 districts. There are no reports of militant counterattacks in any of the areas.
Continuation of the destruction of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the Kursk and Sumy regions. Extending control to the Russian border around Oleshnya.
Liberation of new regions of the Russian Federation
Complete release of the Dry Beam with a readout of the entire gray area. Straightening of the front line between Kamensky and Pubkov. Expansion of control towards Kotlyarovka, north of Leonidovka. Entrance and securing in the Hole. Advance along the Seversky Donets River to the west of Belogorovka. The presence of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the gray zone in the west of Troitsk, in the north of Torsky, north of Novy.
The day before: Complete liberation of Novomikhailovka, with large-scale promotion. Wedging towards Dyleevka from the east.
Destroyed during the day: 2 multiple launch rocket systems, 1 anti-aircraft missile system (in the Sumy direction), 17 tanks and other armored vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (2 of them in Sumy), 37 vehicles (10 in Sumy), 99 drones. It was also announced that 50 artillery installations and probably mortars were destroyed (4 in Sumy).
The daily losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine have become minimal since March 1, 2023 (excluding the Easter truce) and amounted to 1,305 military personnel, 310 of them in the Pokrovsky direction (Center), 300 in Donetsk (South), 250 in Kupyansk (West), 170 in South Donetsk (East), 70 in Kherson (Dnieper)., 40 on Kharkov (North, including Belgorod). The department could not determine the losses in the Sumy direction – 160 were declared, however, 5 more were added to the total losses in the direction – 165 (we add the difference in total losses to the table).
Posted by: Newbie | Apr 23 2025 15:30 utc | 325
Posted by: Newbie | Apr 23 2025 15:54 utc | 78
(From Independent): At least the British hosts were not saddled with what could have been an historic mess in which Zelensky was presented with a US-Russian ultimatum and then painted as a rejectionist war monger when he said “nemaye” (no).
'Nemaye' does not mean 'no'. It means 'not have'.
'No' in Ukrainian is 'nyi'.
But who cares, whatever. Anglos are such a good friends & allies.
Posted by: hopehely | Apr 23 2025 15:55 utc | 79
"I suspect that Zelensky was warned off by UK. Starmer is the inheritor of MI6 scheming and very expensive support for the Nazi regime for decades. He cannot afford the damaging publicity from a real time collapse of a major London summit" Tom Paine -74
Exactly right and you can bet Rubio got a head's up from his 3LA 2028-campaign-handlers...
Posted by: S Brennan | Apr 23 2025 15:57 utc | 80
The only genuine negotiation would be (and will be) directly between Russia and the US. Because none of this mess would have come to pass without the US-sponsored color revolutions in 2004 and 2014, followed by encouraging Ukraine to pick a fight with Russia over the Donbass. Zelensky knows this, Russia knows this, and the US administration knows this.
For the US to pretend to mediate negotiations between Ukraine and Russia is just make-believe cosplay, or Kabuki theater, or Indonesian shadow-puppet theater. Call it what you want, but it's all as fake as World Wrestling Entertainment, where the code-word is 'kayfabe' (pig-Latin for 'fake'). Which also happens to be Trump's favorite entertainment venue.
It doesn't really matter whether Zelensky agrees or does not agree to the terms promoted by the US, because Zelensky plays only a supporting role in the drama. I think he's supposed to be the silly/plucky comic-relief character.
The US negotiators are still acting as though Russia might participate in this theatrical production. But everything I see coming from the Russia side indicates that they are just trying to keep a straight face amidst the blatantly absurd posturing of the US.
Posted by: Clever Dog | Apr 23 2025 15:58 utc | 81
Witkof playing Good Cop (as Drumpff’s minders play Bad Cop)
Or is he plenipotentiary?
(from the Latin plenus "full" and potens "powerful") is a diplomat who has full powers—authorization to sign a treaty or convention on behalf of a sovereign.[1] When used as a noun more generally, the word can also refer to any person who has full powers. As an adjective, it describes something which confers full powers, such as an edict or an assignment.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plenipotentiary
The whole entry at wiki is worth a read - including the many appointed last century and into this.
So which is Witkof?
I am inclined to think a fake good cop, supposedly plenipotentiary, negotiating the surrender and New Yalta as the Multipolar takes over. One that can be reneged instantly.
As the Duran boys reminded us he apparently achieved the Gaza ceasefire’ . But it has resulted in continued mass slaughter.
Not really a great peacemaker is he?
Alexander also recalled when VP Biden went to Russia in 2011 to tell PM Putin he wasn’t allowed to stand for President again! A massive row. Never documented and released by either side. Which explains Potus Biden and co’s butt hurt and animus agains VVP ever since and this ukropian folly.
I guess we will find out in a week - as the hundred days complete.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Apr 23 2025 16:01 utc | 82
🇺🇦🇺🇸 The meeting in London took place without any representatives from Washington, as revealed in a report by Andriy Yermak, Head of the Ukrainian President's Office.In his summary, Yermak did not mention US Special Representative Kurt Kellogg, whose presence had been expected at the London talks.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Apr 23 2025 16:07 utc | 83
we are fighting an ongoing class war... ideological conformity is everywhere... i recommend thomas fazi's latest article...
thanks b...
Posted by: james | Apr 23 2025 16:11 utc | 84
When Zelensky extended martial law, it was made clear that the conflict would continue to the last Nazi. All the publications and chatter were merely wasted effort to some unknown meaningless end.
Melaleuca | Apr 23 2025 13:39 utc | 33--
I currently have no info to offer, although that might change once I do some looking around.
trump on his social media:
Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, is boasting on the front page of The Wall Street Journal that, “Ukraine will not legally recognize the occupation of Crimea. There’s nothing to talk about here.” This statement is very harmful to the Peace Negotiations with Russia in that Crimea was lost years ago under the auspices of President Barack Hussein Obama, and is not even a point of discussion. Nobody is asking Zelenskyy to recognize Crimea as Russian Territory but, if he wants Crimea, why didn’t they fight for it eleven years ago when it was handed over to Russia without a shot being fired? The area also houses, for many years before “the Obama handover,” major Russian submarine bases. It’s inflammatory statements like Zelenskyy’s that makes it so difficult to settle this War. He has nothing to boast about! The situation for Ukraine is dire — He can have Peace or, he can fight for another three years before losing the whole Country. I have nothing to do with Russia, but have much to do with wanting to save, on average, five thousand Russian and Ukrainian soldiers a week, who are dying for no reason whatsoever. The statement made by Zelenskyy today will do nothing but prolong the “killing field,” and nobody wants that! We are very close to a Deal, but the man with “no cards to play” should now, finally, GET IT DONE. I look forward to being able to help Ukraine, and Russia, get out of this Complete and Total MESS, that would have never started if I were President!
Posted by: Justpassinby | Apr 23 2025 16:18 utc | 86
The EU and the Kiev's Zion-Nazi usurpers are satisfied to kill off the entire Ukrainian population in their already-failed bid to weaken Russia. The US would be wise to walk away. It's about time the EU is left to drown in its excrement.
Posted by: Steve | Apr 23 2025 16:26 utc | 87
TRUMP>>>> The situation for Ukraine is dire — He can have Peace or, he can fight for another three years before losing the whole Country.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Apr 23 2025 16:18 utc | 86
#######
3 years. LOL
Ukraine is already on life support.
Once the ground hardens, I expect things to go too fast for NATO to influence.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 23 2025 16:31 utc | 88
slightly off topic, but just a great example of german media, namely of the axel springer variety (know your history). on the latest welt.de piece about the "london peace conference", they pinned (something you dont see pretty much at all) this nugget on the top spot (translated):
Moritz B.
Published 12 minutes ago | Submitted 23 minutes ago
Trump has sided with Russia. He is therefore a traitor to all democratic values.
this is how the nazi-supporting and -whitewashing people that run this propaganda piece see it. "siding" with russia is somehow treason to some elusive democratic values. coming from a german commenter, living in a occupied country, whose economic, monetary and security decisions are beeing made in brussels.
you cannot fix this amount of stupid in germany anymore.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Apr 23 2025 16:35 utc | 89
The question is: what gives Zelensky the chutzpah to defy the US?
The only logical explanation is that Zelensky will continue to get the current level of US aid no matter what.
This suggests the following: 1) Negotiations are just a weird, made-for-media diversionary charade or
2) Trump is powerless to stop the flow; or
3) Trump won't be around long enough to impede the flow.
Whatever the answer, Trump's perceived power in foreign affairs is vanishing like a mirage. Who is really running the show?
Posted by: JohnH | Apr 23 2025 16:39 utc | 90
Excellent conversation covering Ukraine in large. However it is unbelievable to see Jeff Sachs staying at Columbia after the discriminatory measures taking place there against foreign students and activists.
https://www.youtube.com/live/nKIzdmWT52A?si=rgHCp0O0YEQycSlg
Posted by: Minaa | Apr 23 2025 16:51 utc | 91
Posted by: JohnH | Apr 23 2025 16:39 utc | 90
######
Zelensky is like Bibi. If the fighting ends, they are done.
The only thing keeping Zelensky in the game is martial law. When the fighting stops, martial law will have to be lifted.
This is all self-preservation at this point.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 23 2025 16:53 utc | 92
Excellent conversation covering Ukraine in large. However it is unbelievable to see Jeff Sachs staying at Columbia after the discriminatory measures taking place there against foreign students and activists.
https://www.youtube.com/live/nKIzdmWT52A?si=rgHCp0O0YEQycSlg
Posted by: Minaa | Apr 23 2025 16:55 utc | 93
@LoveDonbass | Apr 23 2025 16:53 utc | 9
This is all self-preservation at this point.I agree, this is just a survival game now.
Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 23 2025 16:57 utc | 94
Who is running the show: the Israelis of course. They convinced him that the whole idea of America is the Pilgrims' myth and that without a Biblical disneyland to excite the believers of all shades of Bible-base sects the supremacy of white protestants would go down.
Posted by: Minaa | Apr 23 2025 16:58 utc | 95
Melaleuca | Apr 23 2025 13:39 utc | 33--
Lavrov is in Uzbekistan today and a presser was held but no mention of Iran was made. However, there was some discussion about Afghanistan now that the Taliban are no longer considered a terrorist group under Russian law, which will help deepen interactions with the Central Asians, Russia and Afghanistan. Here's an excerpt:
"The most important thing is to prevent attempts to promote double standards and hidden agendas here again [by the West]. It is unacceptable to try (and there are such attempts) to return the military infrastructure of NATO countries here again under various pretexts. Such attempts will create a new time bomb, and maybe not even a very slow one.
"We are in contact with our Central Asian colleagues. We note the coinciding position on this issue. None of them wants to host any elements of the military infrastructure of NATO countries. And they are doing the right thing. Pakistan adheres to the same position." [My Emphasis]
The direction relations are headed are quite positive. There's much to do to rectify past decades when little was done development-wise.
At least the people of Crimea got to vote in favor of heading back to Russia. Did the Ukies vote to be taken over by the USA, E U, Nato and te MIC ? Who ended up in a better position - Crimea with Russia or the Ukies with the USA ? It's a no brainer question.
Posted by: GMC | Apr 23 2025 17:12 utc | 97
I alluded to this earlier, I think, in this discussion.
What does it say about Trump's ability to direct NATO that the Europeans appear to be in revolt? Does he have enough clout to keep Ukraine out of NATO without spoiling a vote? If NATO is unresponsive, I think that changes the "math" for the Golden Don.
Bereletic's thesis is that this is continuity of agenda and a division of labor.
I cannot believe Trump would tolerate this much public pushback and disrespect (Kallas, Macron) just to perform. He's cunning, but it is a low cunning. I don't believe that he is going to sublimate his ego to execute a grand strategy, particularly since he is so starved for positive press right now.
Let's entertain that Europe is in revolt against Trump. Perhaps he really cannot end the SMO, even if he wanted to meet Putin's terms, which I do not believe the Republicans in the Senate will allow.
I don't think Trump is actually a peacemaker. As I recently cited, he's joked about sabotaging the Russia/China friendship through a literal false flag. It may just be that the process of destroying Russia has started, and no matter what Trump wants or thinks, he may be unable to stop it.
The brake lines have been cut as the world approaches an existential hairpin turn.
I think that America will nuke if things get bad enough for the Empire in armed conflict.
And then we're off to the races.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Apr 23 2025 17:12 utc | 98
I cannot blame Zelensky for steering clear since evidence is coming to light that Ukraine (et.al.) likely 'masterminded' Trump's assassination attempt.
Posted by: ld | Apr 23 2025 17:14 utc | 99
It takes a lot of chutzpah to be an American imperialist.
After the 2014 coup the US moved into the Ukraine and started buying up assets and land. They had wanted Crimea, but didn't get it, which angers them to this day, hence: the constant propaganda about Russia stealing it. They did prepare for the future by starting a war against the people of the Donbass and sending NATO troops in to fortify the region and train the assassins.
But now, after provoking and losing a war with Russia they are going for all of the assets of Ukraine, including oil, gas, ports, and the nuclear power plant?
Since when does the loser take the spoils? I shake my head in amazement.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Apr 23 2025 17:16 utc | 100
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Feel US led negotiations were like a wwf show to enable them to walk off. Now comes the Russia EU slug feast. Point of intrests,will US engage if nato article 5 triggered and Odessa.
Posted by: Michael J | Apr 23 2025 11:50 utc | 1