NATO Sec.-Gen. On Ukraine Accession
Took him a while ...
NATO chief Mark Rutte says Ukraine's membership path is 'irreversible' - UPI / Yahoo, Oct 3 2024
"Ukraine is closer to NATO than ever before," he said. "And will continue on this path until you become a member of our Alliance. I very much look forward to that day."
Ukraine's accession to NATO is no longer under consideration, Rutte confirmed - news-pravda, Mar 14, 2025
Ukraine's accession to NATO is no longer under consideration, Rutte confirmedWhen asked whether Trump was really removing the issue of Kyiv joining the alliance from the negotiating table, the NATO Secretary General answered “yes.”
Posted by b on March 15, 2025 at 14:52 UTC | Permalink
next page »Acting president of US decides who will be member and who not, not a gay NATO secretary, what he says about the topic is irrelevant
Posted by: Lubomir | Mar 15 2025 15:05 utc | 2
I think it was Col. (ret.) Jacques Baud who pointed out that, shortly after he was elected, Zelensky asked Obama if NATO was truly prepared to one day admit UKR into NATO. Obama said 'no,' but added that NATO had no intention of admitting this publicly.
A million men and an entire nation have died for a lie.
Posted by: Paul Damascene | Mar 15 2025 15:12 utc | 3
the next one will flip-flop on this decision again.
with the amount of flip flops from the west, they can equip a whole new army in a desert near you.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Mar 15 2025 15:14 utc | 4
Considering the dung heap of broken Western promises, how does Russia ensure that promise is kept?
Posted by: CitizenSmith | Mar 15 2025 15:15 utc | 5
NATO is 'Schnee von gestern;' with Mr Putin's 'Yes to ceasefire but only if ..' all we have to do is wait for a) the West's Ukrainian war-efforts to complete their journey ‘down the gurgler’ and b) Russian troops to complete their journey all the way through to the West border of Ukraine. THEN there will be no Ukraine to do anything with except be reformed/reconstructed by Russia ‘in its own image.’ I can hardly wait. rgds
Posted by: skrik | Mar 15 2025 15:19 utc | 6
Removing the issue of Ukraine joining NATO is the only path to peace.
Posted by: Keme | Mar 15 2025 15:21 utc | 7
If Ukraine is never going to join NATO then what is the purpose of all the European leaders meeting today to plot aggression against Russia?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 15 2025 15:23 utc | 8
U.S. Secretary of State James Baker's "not one inch eastward" assurance about NATO expansion was made during in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990.
We all know what happened.
On Apr 4, 2024, Secretary of State Antony Blinken reaffirmed the U.S. commitment for Ukraine to eventually join NATO.
Now Trump and Rutte agree that Ukraine's NATO membership is not under consideration...under next week? Or until the next administration?
Posted by: JohnH | Mar 15 2025 15:33 utc | 9
Daily DS map update (just dropped):
https://deepstatemap.live/en#6/49.4324126/32.0581055
Overall: Another poor day for the RFA, with only 5.5 kmsq taken, within UKR. This is much lower than the recent peak month of NOV2024, at 23.5/day pace. It implies over a decade to capture their stated objectives (which don't include Odessa). They did make nice gains in Kursk.
Specific changes S to N:
1. In the north Donetsk, RFA gained a small hamlet W of Nevske (N of Sloviansk).
2. In Kursk, DS shows large gains in the Sudzha pocket, on the N and E flanks. The town of Sudzha itself was completely captured, as well as the hamlet of Rubanschyna. (DS is not showing any progress on the Guevo pocket, yet. But X commenters have some recent updates, this morning showing RFA starting to move against that town/pocket. Something to watch for on next DS update. I assume there is some sort of production/review cycle, with a day delay, for what DS drops.)
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 15 2025 15:36 utc | 10
Nice.
The Atlanticist expansionists are finally eating their own words. That's a start, at least.
Posted by: GW | Mar 15 2025 15:41 utc | 12
Arestovich in 2019: "our price for joining NATO is a big war with Russia"
https://rumble.com/vxk2sx-56364081.html
Posted by: p3t3r | Mar 15 2025 15:43 utc | 13
Southfront today says a huge tranche of weapons is on the way and says....
"Compared to the number of weapons supplied in 2024, the current flow is about three times higher. Unlike in previous years, instead of obsolete systems, the US is sending its modern armored vehicles, tanks, and various other systems. For example, the United States will resupply Ukraine with Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bombs (GLSDB), after they were upgraded to better counter Russian electronic warfare."
Posted by: drinky crow | Mar 15 2025 15:44 utc | 14
post 14 was response to post 8 musing about what the eurocranks were cooking up.
Posted by: drinky crow | Mar 15 2025 15:47 utc | 15
The continuous flip-flopping is happening because the Euro vassals (Rutte/Nato secretary general included) are scared that US will de-facto (even if not de-jure) leave Nato. So they just SAY whatever they think helps keep US de-jure in Nato.
To me the scare of Eurovassals indicates that they are left out/don't know the dealings between USA and Russia. Whatever rethoric Trump says about Ukraine should be disregarded in favor of a more plausible theory there is a bigger back channel deal not only about Ukraine, but the setup of multipolar world in which USA tries to fit and survive.
EU has been left out of whatever arrangement there is, including Ukraine. Due to this fact, they are nervous, flip-floppy and just saying whatever they think will help keep 'the western rules based order' alive.
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 15 2025 15:47 utc | 16
> removing the issue of Kyiv joining the alliance from the negotiating table
I am thankful that there is a table upon which issues can be set or removed. It is just as practical as the ball that bounces from court to court.
Posted by: too scents | Mar 15 2025 15:51 utc | 17
Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 15 2025 15:23 utc | 8
All the West, USA included, is between an hammer and the anvil.
After years or decades of nurturing russophobia, and having let the rabid peasants, or at least part of them, to taste 'imagine' the taste of Russians blood not delivering is risky business.
The peasants that are more blood thirsty could think that, if not Russian, some blood must be spilled.
Posted by: Mario | Mar 15 2025 15:54 utc | 18
A current posting title at Reuters
Ukraine’s troops in Kursk are not surrounded, Zelenskiy says
The shit show continues until it doesn't......
Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 15 2025 15:54 utc | 19
Southfront today says a huge tranche of weapons is on the way and says....
"Compared to the number of weapons supplied in 2024, the current flow is about three times higher. Unlike in previous years, instead of obsolete systems, the US is sending its modern armored vehicles, tanks, and various other systems. For example, the United States will resupply Ukraine with Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bombs (GLSDB), after they were upgraded to better counter Russian electronic warfare."
Posted by: drinky crow | Mar 15 2025 15:44 utc | 14
It really makes one wonder what the trillion dollar military spending package of the Euros is really for. They must know they cannot seriously defeat Russia without US imperialism. Even with US imperialism it's clearly a doomed project. Trump on some level seems to understand that. So, is this just to keep the slush flowing, to support the US arms industry, turn their immigrants into cannon fodder and liquidate them all, sheer madness?
There must be some ulterior motive behind this massive military spending by the EU, which will certainly hurt their economies and put their people on extreme austerity. Can it really be that they think there is some prospect of success?
As for Rutte, it's nice to see reality sinks in for these creeps at least eventually.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Mar 15 2025 15:57 utc | 20
Posted by: drinky crow | Mar 15 2025 15:44 utc | 14
GLSDB are a poor replacement for long range rockets that are not available.
Posted by: Mario | Mar 15 2025 15:58 utc | 21
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Mar 15 2025 15:57 utc | 20
Ursula VDLs 'ReArm' program is another excuse to flood tons of money into the Eurozone, similar to that of COVID. The difference is now the interest rate is at 3%, instead of -0.5%. COVID was a massive grift/corruption scheme, as will the ReArm EU scheme. Spending without accountability.
I have a very hard time believing EU will be able to build any serious weapon industry. Sure, Rheinmetall, Saab etc. will get some more orders for stuff, but won't get much done before another 500k or 1 million Ukrops are dead. At which time it is a moot point anyway.
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 15 2025 16:02 utc | 22
Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 15 2025 15:54 utc | 19
Not shure if it's only for propaganda or if Volo is at the stage of Hitler when, allegedly, was moving inexistent panzer divisione in the war theater.
A NAZI genetic defective chromosome, perhaps. 🤔
Posted by: Mario | Mar 15 2025 16:02 utc | 23
A current posting title at Reuters
Ukraine’s troops in Kursk are not surrounded, Zelenskiy says
The shit show continues until it doesn't......
Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 15 2025 15:54 utc | 19
Yesterday even the Guardian admitted the Ukrainian position in Kursk is no more.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Mar 15 2025 16:03 utc | 24
That's the wedge that's going to cleave NATO apart.
Russia's holding off ukraine with one hand while they and teams of Chinese engineers are tooling up their military / industrial capacity ... modernizing old factories, building new factories and networking the entire enterprise.
Once Trump's peace plan falls apart Russia's going to curb stomp Ukraine and I don't see the likes of Hungary or Turkey going to war on the side of the British, French and the Baltic Chihuahuas ... they aren't suicidal. I don't think the Americans are willing to nuclear war either.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Mar 15 2025 16:03 utc | 25
Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 15 2025 15:23 utc | 8
To manufacture consent for the EU's transition to Hitlernomics? Militarized keynesianism needs an enemy and it needs an imminent war. Rheinmetall is already starting to cannibalize germany's auto sector.
Posted by: waverystrawberry | Mar 15 2025 16:08 utc | 26
French radio is floating the idea that Canada should join the EU. Next they will suggest Ukraine...except that they are totally bankrupt.
Thus the idea of negociations in KSA.
Posted by: Tom | Mar 15 2025 16:09 utc | 27
Posted by: HB_Norica | Mar 15 2025 16:03 utc | 25
Next in line are Poles, not Hungarians.
Baltic chiuauas are there only to provoke RF in doing something that could be sold by Europe on the line ' see you, we have told you that Putin will not stop to ukraine'.
Hope that Putin can see through.
Posted by: Mario | Mar 15 2025 16:09 utc | 28
i guess he is listening to those who are paying him now?? lol...
Posted by: james | Mar 15 2025 16:09 utc | 29
I have a very hard time believing EU will be able to build any serious weapon industry. Sure, Rheinmetall, Saab etc. will get some more orders for stuff, but won't get much done before another 500k or 1 million Ukrops are dead. At which time it is a moot point anyway.
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 15 2025 16:02 utc | 22
They will never be allowed to build a serious weapons industry because that would take market share from the US.
Even if they had all the resources and capability to do so Uncle Sam will be sure to curb-stomp it in its infancy ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 15 2025 16:10 utc | 30
Ursula VDLs 'ReArm' program is another excuse to flood tons of money into the Eurozone, similar to that of COVID. The difference is now the interest rate is at 3%, instead of -0.5%. COVID was a massive grift/corruption scheme, as will the ReArm EU scheme. Spending without accountability.
I have a very hard time believing EU will be able to build any serious weapon industry. Sure, Rheinmetall, Saab etc. will get some more orders for stuff, but won't get much done before another 500k or 1 million Ukrops are dead. At which time it is a moot point anyway.
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 15 2025 16:02 utc | 22
That seems to be a plausible explanation for such a bizarre spending initiative, but Drinky noted much of the money is intended to buy more US made arms, which I suspect is true. How would that benefit Europe, hurt Trump or help Ukraine?
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Mar 15 2025 16:12 utc | 31
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 15 2025 16:10 utc | 30
Yes, that's a point that EU is not allowed to do it.
And even if it were, it doesn't have pre-requisites to develop a serious military industry, ranging from raw materials, sub component industries, minerals, cheap energy, skilled labor, etc. It just doesn't.
It has some companies, but giving massive orders to the few companies will not matter as they won't make long term investments to new factories. Even if they create new factories, it will still be pitiful and won't match Russia.
Mark Rutte just admitted North Korea alone is surpassing NATO excluding USA in arms production. Maybe EU can reach the North Korean level, but forget about being in competition with Russia.
So, essentially EU wants to continue warring without a serious industry, with empty arsenals which will not recover before the EU is fiscally, financially and socially bankrupt.
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 15 2025 16:14 utc | 32
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Mar 15 2025 16:12 utc | 31
Most of the new Euros, which are raised through taxes and loans are taken up from other EU member budgets, mostly healthcare and social. The Euros are used to buy US dollars, which will further send the value of Euro into the doldrums. The value of the Euro going into the doldrums will widen all sorts of cracks in the union and eventually collapse it.
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 15 2025 16:15 utc | 33
The Euros are used to buy US dollars, which
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 15 2025 16:15 utc | 33
---
Its all about the US Dollar.
Famous Chinese Economist: Trump is sacrificing its allies to save the US dollar! ==> https://youtu.be/OyQeMshz0CM
Posted by: too scents | Mar 15 2025 16:27 utc | 35
This might be a good time for NATO Sec.-Gen. to explain what NATO is all about.
Are they really a defense alliance? Then why are meddling with Ukraine, a country that is not a member? The argument that strengthening Ukraine means weakening Russia does not count: As long they are not under attack, any initiative must be consider aggression and not attack.
What was NATO's business in Afghanistan? In Libya? In Syria? None of these countries attacked NATO members.
And what is NATO's business with China and Taiwan?
Trump made clear that if Europe sends soldiers to Ukraine, and if those soldiers get attacked, their country can not call for Article 5-assistance. Why does Trump have to say that, why is the NATO Sec.-Gen.silent on this topic?
Why does the NATO Sec.-Gen. not have anything to say on NATO's failure to prevent the war in Ukraine? After all, NATO's defense spending is several times that of Russia. After all, NATO has been moving forces closer and closer to Russia's border, not least in Ukraine. NATO holds nuclear exercises every year, NATO has held several large excises in Eastern Europe, just before the war. Yet, none of this posturing has deterred Russia from invading Ukraine.
And none of the preparations NATO has made since 2014 has put NATO into a position to help Ukraine stop Russia in its tracks, swiftly after the invasion. Quite the contrary, just as in Afghanistan, NATO is about to lose another war.
How about NATO Sec.-Gen. stands up and explains what NATO is all about. Now. And in the future? Why do we need NATO, and what does NATO need to look like to do its job?
Posted by: Marvin | Mar 15 2025 16:27 utc | 36
psychohistorian | Mar 15 2025 15:23 utc | 8
If Ukraine is never going to join NATO then what is the purpose of all the European leaders meeting today to plot aggression against Russia?
---
Dude, give it up. What are all you guys who obsess over the world's ills going to do going forward?
What are Echo Chamber, TooScents et al going to do now that it's clear that the Trump-Putin tango was all carefully constructed kayfabe?
Geez, it's time to move on. The next great tectonic events are, in no particular order:
- normalization with Russia (lifting of sanctions, etc)
- incorporation of Greenland & Canada
- 3-way summit with China to iron out details of a three sphere agreement
- Artic exploration (let the race begin)
One of my fellow Yanks has repeatedly said that the USA has undergone a revolution. It would be wise of those who follow global events to head this observation.
Me? I'm waiting for direct flights from LAX along with credit cards turned back on. I forsee a St Pete/Moscow visit hopefully this summer. You know we Americans love us a road trip!
Posted by: MarkW | Mar 15 2025 16:30 utc | 37
As 4-term PM in the Netherlands, Rutte is remember mainly for his uncanny ability to get away with lies and to keep his grep on power. He slithers like an eel, we would say, between public outrage and political necessities.
Posted by: Webej | Mar 15 2025 16:31 utc | 38
Putin was right when he made the statement about Europe following orders of their master. Right on target.
Posted by: Jose Garcia | Mar 15 2025 16:38 utc | 39
24 - A couple of days prior to that The Guardian mentioned the pipeline being used by Russians but repeated presumably Kiev claims that the attack had been frustrated.
Posted by: Waldorf | Mar 15 2025 16:41 utc | 40
too scents | Mar 15 2025 16:27 utc | 35
Its all about the US Dollar. Chinese Economist: Trump is sacrificing its allies to save the US dollar.
---
Exactly; You're on target when you drop your obvious bias. Envy is one of the 7 venal sins for good reason, as it clouds the judgment of otherwise very astute commenters.
Look, the USA isn't exactly out of the woods yet - there are still plenty of huge challenges ahead, including preserving the aforementioned $dollar.
If the Trump/América haters could just focus on objective facts, rather than let their emotion interfere, it would allow them to see the playing board much more clearly.
Posted by: MarkW | Mar 15 2025 16:43 utc | 41
the next one will flip-flop on this decision again.
with the amount of flip flops from the west, they can equip a whole new army in a desert near you.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Mar 15 2025 15:14 utc | 4
The current one could flip-flop next week if it served his purpose
Posted by: Mary | Mar 15 2025 16:45 utc | 42
Southfront today says a huge tranche of weapons is on the way and says....
"Compared to the number of weapons supplied in 2024, the current flow is about three times higher. Unlike in previous years, instead of obsolete systems, the US is sending its modern armored vehicles, tanks, and various other systems. For example, the United States will resupply Ukraine with Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bombs (GLSDB), after they were upgraded to better counter Russian electronic warfare."
Posted by: drinky crow | Mar 15 2025 15:44 utc | 14
How can Putin negotiate with Trump after this?
It is clear, the USA does not want peace but a total defeat of Russia.
Posted by: vargas | Mar 15 2025 16:47 utc | 43
Just another day in democratic EUrostan...
Another presidential candidate in Romania was banned from running in the election, after she accused Ursula von der Leyen of hindering democratic processes in the country.
https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1900951338067914898
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 15 2025 16:51 utc | 44
How can Putin negotiate with Trump after this?
Posted by: vargas | Mar 15 2025 16:47 utc | 43
---
With nuance.
Posted by: too scents | Mar 15 2025 16:53 utc | 45
Ukraine’s troops in Kursk are not surrounded, Zelenskiy says
The shit show continues until it doesn't......
Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 15 2025 15:54 utc | 19
Well if they've been driven out, exterminated &/or surrendered that could be true, in one sense.
Otoh, they simultaneously could be there be permanently, albeit as fertilizer or prisoners.
Kindof Schrodinger come to think of it ...
Posted by: Mary | Mar 15 2025 16:57 utc | 46
What will be the consequences of Russia identifying (say) 500 NATO senior military in Kursk and showing them to the World; prima facie evidence of an act of war, an invasion, an open aggression.?
There is a legal right to retaliation and a legal liability to compensation for destroyed property and loss of life.
That needs to be on the table during negotiations.
Posted by: CitizenSmith | Mar 15 2025 16:58 utc | 47
Posted by: Mary | Mar 15 2025 16:57 utc | 46
The AFU command has lost command and control and contact with swaths of Ukrainian troops left behind in several mini-cauldrons, who are dead, surrendered, wounded or out of contact. They were written off so cynically they say no one is there anymore.
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 15 2025 17:00 utc | 48
Considering the dung heap of broken Western promises, how does Russia ensure that promise is kept?
Posted by: CitizenSmith | Mar 15 2025 15:15 utc | 5
You don't. You continue to meet, talk, verbally agree to deals except with "nuances", which will never be acceptable.
And you rotflmao as your Russian humor flies right over the heads of its targets.
Posted by: Mary | Mar 15 2025 17:03 utc | 49
psychohistorian | Mar 15 2025 15:23 utc | 8--
The new game is waiting for 2029 when Trump is gone and a presumably rabid anti-Russian POTUS is back in charge. So, EU/NATO's job is to be ready by then to relaunch the war. I suggest listening to Doctorow describe the insane levels of propaganda/indoctrination happening in Belgium and Denmark, which have no martial history when compared to Germany, France and UK. And then we have Romania where many don't want to be involved with Ukraine. And strange as it might seem, the Polish people are 70% or so against getting involved. Bottomline, EU politicos don't have the backing of their people, which is why the highly intense levels of propaganda. Of course, Russia sees all this happening on its doorstep and will have every reason to make its buffer region within what remains of Ukraine as large as possible primarily because the West isn't to be trusted in any manner, including Trump. Russia wants outcomes it alone devises and is extremely unlikely to agree to any Western generated suggestion.
I also suggest listening to Nima's discussion with Freeman and Wilkerson for the nuanced points they add.
These political pronouncements are liquid but also have the characteristics of hot air. The tail chasing the dog or a self-serving wish list or the wind blowing or . . .
Posted by: elmagnostic | Mar 15 2025 17:09 utc | 51
It really makes one wonder what the trillion dollar military spending package of the Euros is really for.
There must be some ulterior motive behind this massive military spending by the EU, which will certainly hurt their economies and put their people on extreme austerity.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Mar 15 2025 15:57 utc
It is providing liquidity to the monetary system.
The monetary system is a Ponzi scheme meaning it must grow or fail.
The masters of the Empire are the international banking oligarchs who control the Empire by controlling the monetary system.
Western leaders are only doing what they are told to do by the bankers.
War is also fought to force submission to the system and to destroy those who will not submit. e.g. Hitler in Germany, Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Gadaffi in Lybia..........Kill them and destroy their country seems to be the rule.
BRICS is the biggest threat to the Empire maybe in its history.
Posted by: Little Black Duck | Mar 15 2025 17:18 utc | 52
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 15 2025 15:36 utc | 10
"Russia has hardly taken any territory, blah, blah, blah..."
So, what a clever ruse Z-boy has created, getting the Trump Blarneyman to beg Putin not to exterminate Uke Gangsters and Brit, French, Yank Mercenaries as they cry out for "Mommy."
More weapons? Uke leadership loves them some more obsolete, patched-up, civilian-grade weapons to fight Russia. And perversely Western ISR give the Ukes a great view of their losses.
Russia came to fight all the rounds. We've just finished Round 3.
Posted by: kupkee | Mar 15 2025 17:32 utc | 53
Let's hope that Ukraine's anger finally turns towards the West...for the hundreds of thousands of deaths and the bullshit.
Posted by: berthold | Mar 15 2025 17:34 utc | 54
Another well written analysis of the current situation is provided by this SCF Editorial, "The ball is in Russia’s court? Russia is winning a war, not playing tennis."
The EU refuses to cease its promotion of the Obama/Biden BigLie that Russia started this conflict in an unprovoked manner in 2022. All forms of EU-wide media continue to aggressively push that BigLie. When it ceases doing that, then we'll know EU policy is about to change. One of the main points brought forth in the Lavrov interview with Napolitano, et al and noted by Chas Freeman is the lack of European national interests as they are all smashed by the EU Dictatorship, so there's no way for most European nations to insist upon respect for their interests, and that constitutes Europe's #1 problem. Just as Hitler convinced European leaders and their people that the Soviets were to be feared and eliminated, today's EU is following the same totalitarian path using almost the same words.
That reality has yet to enter into the negotiation's universe, but it will when security structures become the topic as they must.
Breaking: (NATO, EU, US) OFFICIAL MAKES STRIKING ANNOUNCEMENT AND PROCEEDS IMMEDIATELY TO ACT IN OPPOSITION TO SAID ANNOUNCEMENT
...story developing
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 15 2025 17:36 utc | 56
What will be the consequences of Russia identifying (say) 500 NATO senior military in Kursk and showing them to the World; prima facie evidence of an act of war, an invasion, an open aggression.?
Posted by: CitizenSmith | Mar 15 2025 16:58 utc |
If so, then that explains BlarneyBoy Trump's sudden concern for special treatment of the Murderers in Ukraine. A few bodies with U.S. flag insignias not a good look for the "Peace-seeking" Financier and Partner-in-death for Uke Nazis.
Posted by: kupkee | Mar 15 2025 17:41 utc | 57
European Powers Plan Massive Assault on the Working Class to Ready Militaries For War
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/03/14/nizm-m14.html
"Top-level discussions this week, including meetings of military commanders and five European defence ministers in Paris, about a 'coalition of the willing' to intervene in Ukraine underscore that the European imperialist powers are on the war path.
[Ottawa,] Berlin, Paris, London and other European governments intend to reduce their military dependence on the US by implementing unprecedented attacks on the working class.
A total of 34 NATO and non-NATO member states were represented at Tuesday's meeting, what French President Emmanuel Macron billed as a major step in his initiative - supported by British PM Sir Keir Starmer - to create a military force capable of providing Kiev with 'security guarantees' in the event of a ceasefire.
Underscoring the rift that has developed between Washington and the European powers since President Donald Trump came to power, the United States was not invited. Germany's Der Spiegel noted that it was the first time since WWII that European chiefs of staff met in Paris without the presence of an American representative.
Beyond the European NATO members, representatives from Australia, Japan, New Zealand and CANADA also participated.
The geopolitical crisis for the European imperialists focused on Ukraine but embracing the pursuit of their interests in a violent redivision of the world that is well underway, is compounded by their dependence on American military assistance to conduct major operations.
To strenghten their ability to act independently of and potentially in opposition to Washington, the European powers are committed to a savage continent[s]-wide onslaught on the working class.
Trade and military conflict require the complete mobilization of society for war. Gutting the remnants of Europe's post-WWII welfare state is the only way that the continent's capitalist governments can pay for military spending now demanded. And this means waging war against the working class.
The working class must decisively repudiate the European ruling classes' mad programme of military rearmament and war."
Posted by: John Gilberts | Mar 15 2025 17:43 utc | 58
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Mar 15 2025 15:57 utc | 20
I seriously doubt the West would send top-tier equipment, given the likelihood of its being captured, relatively intact, taken back and reverse engineered. I notice the BMP upgrade has a fighting compartment that resembles closely the Western IVF’s supplied to Ukraine, the vehicles has a noticeably improved power pack and transmission, especially gearbox.
Even if they abandoned the monkey model, hand-me-down policy of re4-equipping they’d still cannot reverse the terminal decline of the Ukrainian recruitment model, as it battles the realities of a demographic who have endured three years of a deliberately attritional conflict.
Posted by: MarkW | Mar 15 2025 16:30 utc | 37
They can’t because they have unwittingly followed the same strategy of their hated enemy, the globalist Western technocracy, in that they often sacrifice awareness for the maintenance of a unified theory of history, that is existentially threatened if any one it’s components is threatened. It’s what I call Jenga politics, if one block is removed, however minor, the whole tower’s integrity is both threatened and weakened, the more blocks removed the higher the chance of total collapse. They cannot appreciate the radical hand-brake turn that is being attempted in the US because they need that country to maintain its previous trajectory for the tower of bricks to be stable.
Posted by: Milites | Mar 15 2025 17:47 utc | 59
Posted by: drinky crow | Mar 15 2025 15:44 utc | 14
###########
That's interesting because the refurbished bombs were already on the way 3 days ago and Russia took out a British bulk carrier off the port of Odessa that put on quite the fireworks show from the ammo cooking off also 3 days ago.
When will people understand that nowhere in the West is weapons production happening at scale?
The idea that SouthFront would know about materiel moving that Russian intelligence does not. 😂😂😂
Between Russia's titanium embargo and China's antimony embargo, demilitarization is coming, like it or not.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Mar 15 2025 17:50 utc | 60
Posted by: John Gilberts | Mar 15 2025 17:43 utc | 58
I'll take the white feather. Hopefully the working class does, too. Which working class, though?
Posted by: lex talionis | Mar 15 2025 17:50 utc | 61
Ukraine Weekly Update, 14th March 2025: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-c59
Posted by: The Busker | Mar 15 2025 17:51 utc | 62
The Americans will always do the right thing, but only after they tried everything else.
Posted by: Rubiconned | Mar 15 2025 17:54 utc | 63
@ karlof1 | Mar 15 2025 17:09 utc | 50
re: "The new game is waiting for 2029 . . .rabid anti-Russian POTUS is back in charge"
Absolutely. Western countries have an animosity toward Russia that will never die, and there's no better opponents than the bastards in Russia.
Randolph Bourne -- War is the health of the state. . .". . .With the shock of war, however, the State comes into its own again. The Government, with no mandate from the people, without consultation of the people, conducts all the negotiations, the backing and filling, the menaces and explanations, which slowly bring it into collision with some other Government, and gently and irresistibly slides the country into war."
Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 15 2025 18:00 utc | 64
waverystrawberry | Mar 15 2025 16:08 utc | 26
*** To manufacture consent for the EU's transition to Hitlernomics? Militarized keynesianism needs an enemy and it needs an imminent war. Rheinmetall is already starting to cannibalize germany's auto sector.***
Very big difference ... the UK following Keynes' economics was a sovereign country with its own bank and currency. But the EU "has" the Eurobank (replacing members' national banks) which is a privately owned institution that issues debt-money.
As in, the EU must run on money which is borrowed as interest-demanding debt at the point of its creation.
A crazy setup which from the time of designing of the ECB proved beyond any doubt that the so-called "EU" is -- and only can be -- a finance-corporate extortion racket, operated by crooks with zero loyalty to the people and countries of Europe.
Posted by: Cynic | Mar 15 2025 18:16 utc | 66
There is no possibility for NATO, with or without US, to win against RF.
Even in the, i think, likely impossible of a conventional win from the West, before that nukes will fly.
Putin has been crystal clear about that.
Even if USA , in that moment, could have positioned themselves as non belligerent they will nuked anyway.
Posted by: Mario | Mar 15 2025 18:20 utc | 67
DJT, as representative of the chief hegemonic belligerant *from the West* in Project Ukraine, the only belligerent that matters from the West in fact---the straw that stirs the drink---will sign a capitulation when he meets w/ VVP at the KSA Summit, in which Russia imposes terms.
Marat Khairullin *leaked* the deets of the capitulation last week on his substack (link below)--and he intimated that the Russian team had already passed the capitulation to the American team *before* the Jeddah confab happened this week.
The Jeddah confab was a Kabuki show, partly to ensure that Congress would give DJT the vote to fund the U.S. govt through September (the Continuing Resolution.) That was a necessary 'W' for him.
So there was a domestic pay-off to DJT's cosplaying a *mediator* this week.
The Jeddha confab was also a way to keep the EU vassals from prancing. They could endorse this *tough* ceasefire and get in their chin-jutting licks---"the ball is in Russia's court"---then obediently go back to sitting on the porch.
With the pressure off, DJT can now perform his tablecloth trick: capitulation as a means of ending Project Ukraine.
Both VVP and DJT are in full agreement by now.
The Summit in KSA, their first together in DJT's second term but not their last, will be a ceremonial signing of the consonance they've already achieved, amid the intensely presidential pageantry of mounted camel brigades escorting the official motorcades from the airport to the Murabba Palace where the leather bound portfolios await their signatures.
<<
(When you open this link, scroll down the page to the area just beneath the series of maps; there you will find the capitulation.)
https://maratkhairullin.substack.com/p/russia-reparations-peace-details
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Mar 15 2025 18:21 utc | 68
Posted by: Cynic | Mar 15 2025 18:16 utc | 66
This can be changed in minutes.
Note that even the fed is private owned (nominally).
Posted by: Mario | Mar 15 2025 18:21 utc | 69
Ukraine is finding out the hard way (Re: NATO) that the West is agreement incapable of as a wise Indian once said, "White man speak with forked tongue."
Russia had to learn that through trial and error. China will never forgive the West for the Opium Wars, and the Arabs are as guarded as possible.
The Iranians see the West as the manifestation of Shaytan (the Prince of Lies).
The Africans are starting to wake up but still may remain decades behind.
Much Western "power" was accomplished through deceit, taking advantage of cultures that relied on prohibitions against dishonesty. It amuses me to no end when Westerners screw over other Westerners as the British, French, and Germans have been screwing each other over for centuries.
One can steal candy from a baby until that one day when the baby is grown up.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Mar 15 2025 18:29 utc | 70
- Here NATO is finally admitting what they told Zelensky behind closed doors that the Ukraine wouldn't be able to join NATO any time soon.
Posted by: WMG | Mar 15 2025 18:32 utc | 71
Nato-léon s'est encore cassé le nez contre la Russie
Posted by: limousin87 | Mar 15 2025 18:35 utc | 72
@29
In 2029 it is possible that a Clintonophile will renew the program to dismember Russia.
But the material and moral decay of U.S./NATO military capacity will not be reversed.
By then only 50% of the useless F-35 procurement numbers will be crowding ramp in broken state, and the second Ford class carrier still in sea trials.
Lockheed stock prices will be high.
Posted by: paddy | Mar 15 2025 18:35 utc | 73
Ukraine's accession to NATO is no longer under consideration, Rutte confirmed.
"Because we were defeated and underestimated Russia. However, just you want until NATO is triple the size of what it is now and we have ramped up production and fixed our supply lines and we get a true Republican back in the white house or a Dem back in the Whitehouse and we will change our position and try again."
Rutte confirmed in private. As European leaders meeting today plot aggression against Russia and carry out Hegseth's vision to the letter.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Mar 15 2025 18:41 utc | 74
"If Ukraine is never going to join NATO then what is the purpose of all the European leaders meeting today to plot aggression against Russia?"
What indeed? To save face, to keep the war machine alive.
Posted by: Barofsky | Mar 15 2025 18:53 utc | 75
A current posting title at Reuters
Ukraine’s troops in Kursk are not surrounded, Zelenskiy says
The shit show continues until it doesn't......
Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 15 2025 15:54 utc | 19
And merdias repeat it without end...
Posted by: Naive | Mar 15 2025 18:54 utc | 76
VdL
You all seem to be missing the one "player" who wants to control Europe. Ursula Von der Leyen.
The 850 Billion euros planned for arms buying is supposed to be "centralized" under her control. (A bit like the money she gave for Pfizer = 91 Billion, or the "Greentime thingy, or the Covid scare etc. etc.).
How does it work?
Lobbies.
How many lobbyists are there in Brussels? No one knows, (Minimal; 15'000 about ten years ago)
Who do they work for? No one knows.
Do they have access to ALL Ministers and the Commission without conditions or identification. Yes.
Are records kept of their meetings with Ministers and others in Brussels. No.
We have become accustomed to cash "donors" in the US for senators and Congress, This "official" bribery is expected to pay off with large contracts in the future. For each dollar, an extensive return is expected.
Ursula Fond-ov Lyin' will have almost total control over 850 billion worth of contracts. Don't tell me she is doing this from the "purity" of her heart?
*
She wants part or all of the "private citizens savings" that certain countries are planning on taking from us (France in the lead), to be used to buy arms under her "supervision".
*
The Commission and her, do not tolerate dissent at all.
The Commission wants censorship to avoid dis-or mis- information (the truth) seeping out.They apparently are mired behind the troubles in Romania, Serbia, and Hungary.
(One case is that Serbia "disobeyed" the Brussels imposed overlord, therefore the real Government must be arrested.)
According to information from the Financial Times, the Commission plans to present a “proposal” next week according to which it intends to act as a “central procurement authority for arms” on behalf of the member states. The model, who would be surprised, is the “joint” vaccine purchase, in which Ms. von der Leyen, through opaque channels, exceeding the official authority assigned to her and circumventing all transparency and accountability obligations, acquired a (significantly) excess quantity of vaccine at a (significantly) excessive price from a (very) dubious potency drug manufacturer that belongs to the network of the inefficient US money-making firm Blackrock (cf. FTZNFRTZ). The Commission's draft also contains "further details on the financing options presented by Commission President von der Leyen last week," the essence of which appears to be the (magical) conversion of private savings into (armament) investments.
If there is one group that cannot stand the thought of the war-gravy train drying up, it is the Brussels Commission and their Führer, as Lavrov calls her.
Years of Dread: Part 2 – Lost Causes
War’s ancient Wheel spins victors and vanquished through time. History shows how the fallen wrestle and win over loss, clawing back to a peak where descent—and woe—wait anew.
https://www.beyondwasteland.net/p/years-of-dread-part-2-lost-causes
[email protected] the Ukraine ceases to exist, solves the entire EU NATO entry mess....not sure that is possible at this stage unless Whitehall taps out....bit early to call that one, the Brits seem quite content to attack Russian ships and energy infrastructure...
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 15 2025 19:01 utc | 79
Posted by: Barofsky | Mar 15 2025 18:53 utc | 75
###############
Europeans have been obsessed with Russia going back a few centuries just as they have been obsessed with the Holy Land for a thousand years.
This goes beyond ego. It's a kind of cultural mental illness not unlike mass formation psychosis but slower moving and generationally enduring.
It's not rational, it's compulsive at this point.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Mar 15 2025 19:04 utc | 80
The Commission and her, do not tolerate dissent at all.
Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 15 2025 18:55 utc | 77
---
Something has gone haywire.
European Council decides by consensusSource: Europa Nu.
Consensus means a proposal will only be adopted if all member states are in agreeance. Formal voting does not take place, the member states deliberate until they reach generaal agreement. Traditionally, this is the most used method of decision-making in the European Council.
https://www.eumonitor.eu/9353000/1/j9vvik7m1c3gyxp/vijskjgk1jzn
The EU. Broken and not fit for purpose.
Posted by: too scents | Mar 15 2025 19:04 utc | 81
That needs to be on the table during negotiations.
Posted by: CitizenSmith | Mar 15 2025 16:58 utc | 47
Which negotiations?
It is necessary not to confuse capitulation with negotiation.
Posted by: Naive | Mar 15 2025 19:05 utc | 82
I find it noteworthy that NATO is made up of most, if not all, of the countries which had colonial ambitions, and colonies, in the past. But since colonialism became unfashionable they seem to have developed a morbid fascination with the only colonial power still evading scrutiny of the oppression of its colonial sub
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 15 2025 19:09 utc | 83
british nazi-hiding-behind-others starmer:
"We will accelerate our military support, tighten our sanctions on Russia’s revenues, and continue to explore all lawful routes to ensure that Russia pays for the damage it has done to Ukraine."
"lawfull", doublespeak at its finest from this bootlicking coward.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Mar 15 2025 19:10 utc | 84
the countries which had colonial ambitions
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 15 2025 19:09 utc | 83
---
'Atlanticist' is right there in the name.
https://www.google.com/search?q=atlanticist+colonialism
Posted by: too scents | Mar 15 2025 19:17 utc | 85
Europe is terrified of normalization between the U.S. and Russia because it leaves Europe marginalized on the outskirts of the Great Powers. Project Ukraine has been the singular unifying element for Europe, masking from view the disparate interests and focal points of each individual European nation. As Project Ukraine crumbles, fissures and cracks widen among EU members, exposing rifts even in how to handle ordinary democratic tendencies, whether in Romania or Georgia. Viktor Orban of Hungary has called upon the EU to root out and ban Open Society-funded NGOs and USAID-type regime change operations which masquerade as aid groups.
As Europe quivers & quakes at the prospects of the demise of Project Ukraine, NATO too struggles to reinforce its unity, particularly because it, as a defensive alliance, has lost its proxy. Look for more head-on-a-swivel changing ideologies as NATO member states try to back-pedal from their losing venture—Project Ukraine—in an effort to find a path forward for the alliance.
Right now, DJT may be the only robustly influential member of NATO who represents a mind-set and an approach that is distinctly at odds w/ the globalist/WEF/Davos/Bilderberg sort of strategy—but he won’t always be alone. Of course, Orban and Fico stand in oblique opposition to the EU’s liberal neocon stances, but they in no way wield the kind of power in NATO that DJT does. The U.S. *is* NATO.
Like our colleague Sun of Alabama reminds us: Sec Hegseth went into Brussels and told NATO how matters would be going forward. It’s like the Ludacris rap: when I move, you move. Here in DJT’s second term, old NATO—the Cold War NATO—can’t properly rise to 21st Century challenges without jettisoning the 20th Century agenda that defined the defensive alliance in the post-WWII era. Part of which means it cannot cling-on to Russophobia as its North Star.
So when Sec Hegseth sat down in Brussels that day and laid it on the line, it was tantamount to the upthrust of mountain-building along a faultline in the earth. DJT’s challenge to NATO, as represented in Sec Hegseth’s words, is to live up to this magnitude of change.
Some, like Rutte, are trying—but it is going to look super-awkward and come off as super-hypocritical until they can appropriately vibe to NATO’s DJT-aligned mojo.
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Mar 15 2025 19:20 utc | 86
Considering the dung heap of broken Western promises, how does Russia ensure that promise is kept?
Posted by: CitizenSmith | Mar 15 2025 15:15 utc | 5
That is the main problem for Trump. I don't see a solution, except that Russia does it itself = demilitarization of Ukraine at least in a wide strip towards Russia, including the Black Sea coast. So occupation status.
Posted by: smartfox | Mar 15 2025 19:20 utc | 87
Europe is terrified of normalization between the U.S. and Russia because
Posted by: steel_porcupine | Mar 15 2025 19:20 utc | 86
---
They're terrified 'cause they've already spent the Russian money "frozen" in Belgian accounts.
Every other explanation is just waffling he-said she-said blame shifting.
Furthermore, the US normalizing with Russia would cause Lutnick's head to explode.
Posted by: too scents | Mar 15 2025 19:25 utc | 88
Whether Ukraine is in NATO is irrelevant. NATO is in Ukraine and has been for a long time, although more active post-2014 and again post-2022.
Any negotiations will prove fruitless since no one will make sufficient concessions to Russia's demands. "The West's" asymmetric warfare against Russia, which began after Putin's 2007 Munich Security Conference speech, will continue without missing a beat. But now with a larger element of terrorism on Russian territory and commercial interests.
Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Mar 15 2025 19:28 utc | 89
Posted by: drinky crow | Mar 15 2025 15:44 utc | 14
Delivery is not yet a reality, especially since all new weapons have a swift off, i.e. they cannot be used without direct US action.
So a propaganda tool and threat backdrop, typical for Trump.
But their use would immediately trigger a Russian response IN the USA, i.e. war, and Trump certainly doesn't want that.
Posted by: smartfox | Mar 15 2025 19:28 utc | 90
[email protected] do craic me up sometimes.....
...stealing candy from babies should be encouraged....breast milk when possible, is best....
And an Indian saying "white man speak with forked tongue" is so Bollywood....pure craic
....I might be able to get you a day job at the Leprechaun Pavilion.... I'll see what I can do, there's a few people ahead of you though...
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 15 2025 19:29 utc | 91
...its colonial subjects - Israel.
All NATO members are Israel worshippers. And let's not even think about NATO wrecking Israel's imaginary enemies Iraq, Libya and Syria.
So given that NATO is obviously a tool of Israel, only three questions remain:
What has Israel got against Russia?
Why is Netanyahu's name never mentioned as a contributor to discussions about NATO's war on Russia?
Does Israel own every politician in every NATO country?
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 15 2025 19:34 utc | 92
"frozen" in Belgian accounts.
Posted by: too scents | Mar 15 2025 19:25 utc | 88
---
in Brussels accounts. That was bad one.
Posted by: too scents | Mar 15 2025 19:35 utc | 93
Can it really be that they think there is some prospect of success?
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Mar 15 2025 15:57 utc | 20
What is it like with religions? Political ideologies that have become entrenched are the same. Reason is never an argument, what is believed has been internalized as THE TRUTH.
Posted by: smartfox | Mar 15 2025 19:35 utc | 94
That's on rhetorical... like the "we won't move an inch to the east". The RF won't be baited by these hollow words. They'll play along but the meat grinder will continue its operations, relentlessly.
Posted by: xor | Mar 15 2025 19:38 utc | 95
RE: “A current posting title at Reuters
Ukraine’s troops in Kursk are not surrounded, Zelenskiy says
The shit show continues until it doesn't......”
Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 15 2025 15:54 utc | 19
Ah! No reason to lay down arms, surrender or be killed then.
Why again did Trump call then?
Kiev has it all under control…apparently- okay
Posted by: Trubind1 | Mar 15 2025 19:38 utc | 96
What has Israel got against Russia?
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 15 2025 19:34 utc | 92
---
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization
Posted by: too scents | Mar 15 2025 19:39 utc | 97
Now would be an auspecous momment for Donald Trump to send Vance over to england, and give the eng's another very PUBLIC mega verble slap down, another truth bomb just like he did in Munich.
That would sure settle starmers hash hopefully for good.
The timeing would be perfect.
That would be a momment needing alot of popcorn.
Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 15 2025 19:40 utc | 98
LoveDonbass | Mar 15 2025 19:04 utc | 80
*** Europeans have been obsessed with Russia going back a few centuries just as they have been obsessed with the Holy Land for a thousand years.
This goes beyond ego. It's a kind of cultural mental illness not unlike mass formation psychosis but slower moving and generationally enduring.
It's not rational, it's compulsive at this point.***
Must be some very interesting information in secretive Vatican archives.
Posted by: Cynic | Mar 15 2025 19:40 utc | 99
@58 john gilberts
Yes, and looking at karlof1's comment above yours, we see the idea that Trump is just a placeholder, a pressure-release valve for the Red team to scapegoat a few Average-Joe Federal employees while leaving the deep state structure intact. It does point to a continuous and unencumbered march to war with the Axis, who want something else out of man's relationship to technology. Thanks to you both!
When Biden kicked Trump to the curb, they scapegoated the unvaxxed domestically and heaved money at the bureaucracy structure. Blue team happy!
Red team mad: "We so mad!"
Now Trump back. "We happy 'gain!"
Blue team mad, tho.
...
We breathed a sigh of relief when Trump backed off of Syria. In hindsight, we can make the connection that "staying for the oil" in Syria more or less equates to the "mineral deal" in Ukraine. And we will all be here at the bar for several more years.
Reload, reorganize, and give the white, red-blooded Americans some encouraging, though utterly moot, surface rearranging.
They will not give up on their world project without getting utterly whipped.
I asked google gemini to create a picture of DJT fighting Godzilla in a wrestling ring. I was going to caption it, "He who fights with monsters should be careful not to become one." Of course it couldn't spit it out. Stupid AI.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 15 2025 19:42 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
About time.
Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 15 2025 14:55 utc | 1