Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 15, 2025
Vance Criticizes Europe In Fierce Speech

The 2007 speech by Russia's President Vladimir Putin at the Munich Security Conference was one for the ages.

Concepts mentioned therein are only now getting acknowledged:

It is well known that international security comprises much more than issues relating to military and political stability. It involves the stability of the global economy, overcoming poverty, economic security and developing a dialogue between civilisations.

This universal, indivisible character of security is expressed as the basic principle that “security for one is security for all”.

The unipolar world that had been proposed after the Cold War did not take place either.

It is world in which there is one master, one sovereign. And at the end of the day this is pernicious not only for all those within this system, but also for the sovereign itself because it destroys itself from within.

There is no reason to doubt that the economic potential of the new centres of global economic growth will inevitably be converted into political influence and will strengthen multipolarity.

Eighteen years later the new U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio acknowledged the fact of a multipolar world. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth demolished any hope for Ukraine to enter NATO. Donald Trump, by calling President Putin, accepted the concept of a shared if not yet indivisible security. In 2007 Putin also spoke out against the abuse of so called NGOs to manipulate foreign countries' internal policies. Trump has now stopped USAID and NED from financing these.

Eighteen years on the core concepts of Putin's speech have thus been accepted.

Yesterday another speech at the Munich Security Conference was given by U.S. Vice-President JD Vance (video, transcript). It will also echo for years to come:

Vance opened by saying that the biggest threat to Europe comes not from Russia or China or other external threats. It comes from within by the antidemocratic instincts and behavior of those in power, who trample free speech in the name of fighting ‘disinformation’ and show no respect for political opposition.

While I agree with Vance on this I wonder if he can acknowledge his own U.S. made hypocrisy. It were not the Europeans who initiated the campaign against 'disinformation'. It was the U.S. who came up with this concept and which has been using its 'soft power' to push censorship into Europe.

The German Defense Minister immediately reinforced Vance's critique of too little tolerance for political speech in Europe by calling his speech unacceptable:

"Democracy was called into question by the US Vice President for the whole of Europe earlier," German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said from the main stage at the conference. "He speaks of the annihilation of democracy. And if I have understood him correctly, he is comparing conditions in parts of Europe with those in authoritarian regions… that is not acceptable."

This critique by Vance is also shallow:

I was struck that a former European commissioner went on television recently and sounded delighted that the Romanian government had just annulled an entire election. He warned that if things don’t go to plan, the very same thing could happen in Germany too.

Now, these cavalier statements are shocking to American ears.

For years, we’ve been told that everything we fund and support is in the name of our shared democratic values. Everything—from our Ukraine policy to digital censorship—is billed as a defense of democracy.

But when we see European courts canceling elections, and senior officials threatening to cancel others, we ought to ask whether we’re holding ourselves to an appropriately high standard.

As Arnaud Bertrand points out:

[O]n Romania and much of Vance's criticism directed at Europe, the U.S. was right there alongside Europe acting jointly, and often even guiding Europe's actions. Specifically on Romania for instance, I believe that the US State Department was first in issuing a statement on December 4th (https://2021-2025.state.gov/statement-on-romanias-presidential-elections/) expressing its concern about "Russian involvement in malign cyber activity designed to influence the integrity of the Romanian electoral process" which led to the elections being cancelled two days later (and which, it was later proven, was completely false: it turned out that this "malign cyber activity" were paid for by the very Romanian party in power that cancelled the elections!). It's only after that State Department statement that the Europeans followed the U.S.'s lead.

So it's a bit rich, even very rich, for Vance, less than 2 months afterwards, to lecture Europeans on this without as much as acknowledging the U.S.'s own role in a lot of it.

Vance also criticized mass immigration to Europe. But he is neglecting the fact that the streams of Afghan, Syrian and Ukrainian refugees are a consequence of wars that the U.S. has caused and is waging. He laments the de-industrialization of Germany but ignores the U.S. bombing of the Nord Stream pipelines which is the greatest cause of it.

Vance calls for more democracy in Europe but at the same time is actively meddling in it. By pushing nationalist parties against European institution he is endangering peace in Europe.

The speech is a wake up call for Europeans to fight for their own sovereignty. As such it may have good impact:

After the dark days of the Biden repressions, the reliance of Power on corrupt intelligence agencies and the weaponization of the Justice Department, it was remarkable to be treated to such brave words from a top American official in defense of the people against the authoritarian rulers in Brussels, in Berlin, in Paris.

It is hard to see how the usurper Ursula van der Leyen and her whole team of people-haters will be able to hold onto power in these conditions.

Vance's speech may also be seen as the watershed where the U.S. divorces from Europe. There is a hidden danger in this:

The Europeanisation of Nato, framed as a necessity following US withdrawal, has accelerated the continent’s militarisation and its leaders’ demonisation of Russia, perpetuating the very conditions that caused the conflict in Ukraine in the first place. Instead of using this moment to engage in diplomacy, European leaders view the US retreat as a reason to escalate militarily. In this sense, Washington’s decoupling from Europe is at odds with Trump’s stated aim of achieving peace in Ukraine.

Ironically, the US’s attempt to distance itself from European security affairs may ultimately pull it back into an even larger conflict — one that it will have far less control over.

Comments

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 15 2025 15:33 utc | 76
>>>
No one with reason in Deutschland will support the rise of the AfD. The polls are just a distraction for the masses and serving the interests of external foreign agents.

Posted by: pepe | Feb 15 2025 16:19 utc | 101

– But then the US has to accept that the US will heve “less influence” over Europe. Time for Europe to join the BRICS ?
– I think the US still want to sell military equipment to Europe.
– “Coupe d’etat” coming in the US ( by e.g. the military industrial congressional complex) ?

Posted by: WMG | Feb 15 2025 16:21 utc | 102

Trump Sends Defense Stocks Crashing
https://www.rt.com/news/612780-trump-defense-stocks-crashing/
“Shares of Lockheed Martin plunged after the US president said he may halve military spending.”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 15 2025 16:22 utc | 103

Vance does include the previous government in his rant against censorship.
//Free speech, I fear, is in retreat and in the interests of comedy, my friends, but also in the interest of truth. I will admit that sometimes the loudest voices for censorship have come not from within Europe, but from within my own country, where the prior administration threatened and bullied social media companies to censor so-called misinformation. Misinformation, like, for example, the idea that coronavirus had likely leaped from leaked from a laboratory in China. Our own government encouraged private companies to silence people who dared to utter what turned out to be an obvious truth.//
This is only about the virus, but it is not fair to blame him for sparing the US from his rant and call him hypocritical. He mentions Romania, Germany, Sweden, Scotland with specific examples – so he does with the US.
I also would have been delighted if his focus was more on his own country than on the vassals. He could have pardoned Snowden, f.i. But to expect him to formulate a mea culpa for 200+ years of American information warfare in front of this forum is a bit rich, isn’t it?

Posted by: mk | Feb 15 2025 16:23 utc | 104

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Feb 15 2025 15:07 utc | 64
A lot of good stuff.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 15 2025 15:33 utc | …
Your posts are just excellent, as always – and fully match my personal, limited analysis. Thanks!

Posted by: Zet | Feb 15 2025 16:27 utc | 105

So let me get this straight, the US starts the war in Ukraine behind the Europeans’ backs, then pushes Germany and France to support the war, then, via Vance, threatens to exclude them from peace negotiations, while demanding control of 50% of Ukraine’s rare earth minerals? Sounds like this was one of a few a la carte options considered a priori by the US and the EU leaders were/are too craven and corrupt to show any outrage at the preposterous hypocrisy of it all. Of course, the response to the US from EU should be, “hmm, perhaps we’ll just restart trade and gas imports from Russia instead.”

Posted by: Ludovic | Feb 15 2025 16:29 utc | 106

“Americans are nothing, if not fickle.” A foundational, attention span deficiency of the Yankee Trader.
Something that says Israel might consider working on a healing and friendship plan, in the same way Ukraine, ought to have found a begrudging accommodation with Russia.
BTW, after 4 weeks of Global Freezing, I am aghast at how Trump managed to breathe fresh air into the rotten corpse of the Liberal Party and Trudeau, with his anti-Canada B.S. Canada has the same population as California, entitling 42 Representatives in the House, and the 10 Provinces will require 2 Senators each totally 20. You could fit 10 Rhode Islands into Vancouver Island FFS. So Trump is going to engineer a Reverse-Takeover in the Senate and House?
Ukraine? First move should be a Public Hanging of Zelenski as a token of Good Faith. Crime(s). Getting elected by Lying of Peace with Russia. And the current Fake Presidency.

Posted by: kupkee | Feb 15 2025 16:29 utc | 107

I know what Schadenfreude is.
Does anyone know if there is a word in German (or any other language) for a feeling of joy as one’s enemies are demoralized?
That feels to me like it’s something that the Japanese or Germans would have derived a term for.
TIA.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 15 2025 16:32 utc | 108

At least the attempted “Russian drone strike on Chernobyl” media op was the dampest of squibs.

Posted by: jayc | Feb 15 2025 16:35 utc | 109

” – But then the US has to accept that the US will heve “less influence” over Europe. Time for Europe to join the BRICS ? ”
In the same India has ?

Posted by: Lavrov | Feb 15 2025 16:39 utc | 110

@Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 15 2025 15:35 utc | 78
The oligarchy have already lined up his replacements in 4 years on the right; JD, Tulsi, Little Narco … He isn’t the boss, he’s the servant. The oligarchs may also have the new Obama style Dem candidate, or a Clinton-style to do the dirty work that is required to crush majority living standards – it was only that soiled dress that stopped the gutting of Social Security in the late 1990s. Now if the duopoly fails, then its dictatorship time.
Its the people behind the curtain who control who gets to be in the front of it. As long as their choices get “democratically” put in place they will continue with that, the most efficient version of oligarchic rule. Dictatorship has added costs.
Jan 6th was a setup by the other side of the oligarchy to remove him for good from politics, the friendliest riot with the least damage and injured ever. With minimal levels of policing, doors opened for the protestors, and protestors even laughing with cops as they walked around. And acres of state actors and informants there to keep things moving along. Then the utterly rigged hearings and partial treatment of evidence, the propagandistic reporting, the rigged trials. Go look at the videos of the BLM riot in front of the Capitol Building, now that was a real riot.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 15 2025 16:40 utc | 111

Posted by: Ludovic | Feb 15 2025 16:29 utc | 106
>>>
The EU will get back to the Russian Federation and the Russian Federation will be delighted to have them instead of the US of A. That will work wonderfully also for The People’s Republic of China. They just need to close the loop in the Middle East, but that’s happening as we speak. The US of A will be left behind in total isolation.

Posted by: pepe | Feb 15 2025 16:41 utc | 112

Antiwar7 @ 95
Now that is a bloody good question.
The bad news is….
They dont exsist and havent for about 4-5 years. If they did excist they would have been labeled as domestic terrorists. The right wing and ‘powers that be’ being fascist. Their oppersition being anti-fascist.
The good news is that ‘we’ the anti-fascists did’nt just vanish into thin air, we are still here a majority.
Onece again dont beleave the media, they ignore and censor this fact.
Only this morning on the bbc they said the Germain right wing are 27% of voters.
I doubt it’s that low. What would you think ?
In summary the left were forcesed to become ‘automounous’
Bring back ‘black block’ take it to the streets.
Reluctently thats what happens when you suppress oposition partys.
The umma.
Same as in the UK.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 15 2025 16:43 utc | 113

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 15 2025 13:17 utc | 3
“Doing the exact opposite in the US when he is quite happy to send the brown shirts into student campuses and bash them over their heads.”
Vance is the head of Antifa? Who knew? So all of the videos of Antifa bashing people with pipes and lobbing concrete “milkshakes” at journalists like Andy Ngo were done at Vance’s orders? I’d like to see some proof of that if you have the links.

Posted by: Paranaense | Feb 15 2025 16:44 utc | 114

John Gilberts@103…..I thought market manipulation was illegal?
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 15 2025 16:45 utc | 115

Posted by: Johnny | Feb 15 2025 13:32 utc | 12
Yes they can, if the alternative is to admit that they were existentially wrong. Kind of like how atheists are normally the most vociferously opinionated and obnoxious people at parties, or the hippy in Futurama who stuck his fingers in his ears and repeatedly said shut-up, during debates.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2025 15:07 utc | 65
Crossing the frozen Delaware, the Rubicon and the Yalu River simultaneously.
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 15 2025 15:10 utc | 67
Doesn’t every country look after its own interests? Seems that America is held to a higher standard, suggestive of an expectation of exceptionalism.
Posted by: GioCon | Feb 15 2025 15:21 utc | 72
I think the EO targeted visa holders who openly supported a terrorist organisation.
Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Feb 15 2025 15:50 utc | 87
I think the author of that article betrays his own authoritarian inclinations as he seems incapable of separating the incoming administrations action’s from the previous one, understandable, given the uni party’s grip on the agenda of the last quarter century.
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 15 2025 15:52 utc | 89
Show don’t tell is a better metric and Trump’s second term is showing far more of the former than the latter, much to the chagrin of all those who dismissed his chances in Nov and then predicted endless disappointment before he took office.

Posted by: Milites | Feb 15 2025 16:46 utc | 116

Yves on Trump’s tribute-demand for 50% of Ukrainian minerals:

So what happens if Zelensky does sign an improved version of the Bessant deal, with or without European participation? Trump will insist the US has ownership and mining rights in the four oblasts that Russia regards as Russia. Russia will insist that it has maintained that Zelensky is not the legitimate leader of Ukraine and so any agreement he signs is legally void. The US will say, too bad, so sad, we get our mineral rights or no peace deal.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2025/02/is-trump-poisoning-the-prospects-of-negotiation-with-russia-over-ukraine-with-his-minerals-deal.html

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Feb 15 2025 16:49 utc | 117

“So let me get this straight, the US starts the war in Ukraine behind the Europeans’ backs, then pushes Germany and France to support the war, then, via Vance, threatens to exclude them from peace negotiations, while demanding control of 50% of Ukraine’s rare earth minerals?”
Posted by: Ludovic | Feb 15 2025 16:29 utc | 106
Your logic is faulty.
The US that started the war was controlled by the Dems- the Deep State with Biden being but a figurehead.
Things have drastically changed.
Today, the US government is run by true reformers the total opposite of The Blob; in 1916 it was Russia ; 1917 it was the USSR.
2024 it was the Blob; 2025 it is the ‘common sense ‘ revolution-the change is almost as dramatic as 1916-1917.

Posted by: canuck | Feb 15 2025 16:50 utc | 118

“hmm, perhaps we’ll just restart trade and gas imports from Russia instead.”
Posted by: Ludovic | Feb 15 2025 16:29 utc | 106
They can’t because their mental model does not allow it. You really have to try thinking like them:
a) they hate Russia, probably because it destroyed their ambitions with Hitler (see VdLs ancestry)
b) they adore the US, probably because it saved them from communism and brought prosperity
That’s what is at the unspoken core of all of the European politicians of the main stream.
It’s like the Stockholm syndrome: they are fully aware that they are vassals, but for them the master is the good guy allowing them to live. They can’t stand on their own feet, they will always try to watch their masters action and then align.
Until someone like Vance comes in and pushes them away. That is what is needed to make them realize: oops, now we really need to stand on our own feet…

Posted by: Zet | Feb 15 2025 16:50 utc | 119

“At least the attempted “Russian drone strike on Chernobyl” media op was the dampest of squibs.”
Posted by: jayc | Feb 15 2025 16:35 utc | 109
As False Flags go this was the most pathetic one yet.

Posted by: canuck | Feb 15 2025 16:51 utc | 120

I thought market manipulation was illegal?
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 15 2025 16:45 utc | 115

4 Apr 2019 — “My call to action is for everyone to take a deep breath, put your reasonableness pants on and work this out,” Judge Alison Nathan said.
Look up the backstory.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2025 16:53 utc | 121

Posted by: Sunny | Feb 15 2025 13:17 utc | 3
“Doing the exact opposite in the US when he is quite happy to send the brown shirts into student campuses and bash them over their heads.”
—————————————————————————————————————————————-
“Vance is the head of Antifa? Who knew? So all of the videos of Antifa bashing people with pipes and lobbing concrete “milkshakes” at journalists like Andy Ngo were done at Vance’s orders? I’d like to see some proof of that if you have the links.”
Posted by: Paranaense | Feb 15 2025 16:44 utc | 114
Sunny is a blathering idiot; the scope of his ignorance is terrifying.

Posted by: canuck | Feb 15 2025 16:54 utc | 122

Roger Boyed @ 111
Aah i see your agenda clearly now. Thanks.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 15 2025 16:55 utc | 123

@Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 15 2025 16:22 utc | 103
All this probably intended so that the common investor sells its shares low price, to then they scalate, or obly Europe to buy weapons, and buy more shares at low price…
This is what late financial capitalism is all about…
There is the origin of all those old harpies in Congress with suhc fortunes which can not be explained buy their government salaries…
They will provoke war or peace, once at power, so that to become billionaires, have a say in world issues, and, above all, not be at the menu…either of those at the top…or of the masses once enraged enough…
This is why there is nothing to arrange regarding security or prosperity within this system…in spite of the so grandilocuent words could come out of leaders like Puitn and Xi Jinping at any memorable moment of any international meeting…
While this casino is going on, there will be always a great part of the masses hard work and sweating for more than 40 years in any human life who flows to iddle people sucking it all at the top… for generations…i. e. the Soros, Gates, guys, with full time to cavilate over there how to suck more and make more harm to the masses…and these are onlhy the visible part of the elites…

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Feb 15 2025 16:56 utc | 124

“Ironically, the US’s attempt to distance itself from European security affairs may ultimately pull it back into an even larger conflict — one that it will have far less control over.”
As if! NATO without the US would have no chance against Russia/China. If it’s stupid enough to make a go at Russia without US backing, it won’t last long. Additionally, this presumes Russia is as Imperialist as VDL, Kallas, or “butcherblock” claim and wishes to take all of Europe.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 16:57 utc | 125

To quote from Thucylides
And this is the situation for the Ukrainians and EU barker’s.
“The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.”
History of the Peloponnesian War bk. 5, ch. 89

Posted by: jpc | Feb 15 2025 16:59 utc | 126

Stop your fucking bitching, it’s annoying as shit. People cannot really be this stupid, can they
??
Posted by: Johnny | Feb 15 2025 13:32 utc | 12
Right. Just stop thinking critically and let the Messiah work his magic. Go have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up, Johnny.
This is a place for critical thinkers, not naive corn fed dipshits. There are plenty of Trump spaces where you can hoot about the coming world peace and economic prosperity.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 17:01 utc | 127

People cannot really be this stupid, can they
??
Posted by: Johnny | Feb 15 2025 13:32 utc | 12
Absolutely. The reason a lot of posts on MoA are hard to read is that people mostly argue from their entrenched former positions in reacting even to completely new situation. Trump being elected is a totally new situation and was not in the plan. They were trying to gut him physically until the last days of 2024 and only gave up because even they realised it was a risk too far though some were still prepared to take it to keep their well feathered nests. With DOGE, we can now see why. I don’t accept the argument that the powers that be LET Trump win. It was a win against all odds.
Crying about the hypocrisy of politicians is something only teens should be doing. 2 opposite things CAN be true at the same time. The Vance speech was made because they (Trump/Vance) see what is being done in Europe to truncate elections as the same nefarious plot that was unsuccessful against them. They at the same time do the same to anyone opposing Israel be he high or low. This is par for the course.
Trump is only aiming for peace with Russia because he is the only Western leader apart from Orban/Fico who sees that the war is lost and Russia is much stronger than all the spook agencies had assured them. IF Russia was even struggling in this contest you better believe they would be singing a completely different tune. They know as most do that Russia isnt going all out and certainly not using the “shock and awe” kill everything in sight tactics that the west always deploys
Trump is not a psycho in the vein of Biden/Blinken but he too cherished the rewards dismembering Russia would bring, hence tentatively being ok with the Ukraine programme in his first term. His problem now is how to withdraw from the conflict with what little dignity the US still has, best to dump it all on the gullible Europeans who fell line and sinker for the NED spiel and the promise of shared Russian loot.
Trump and his team are mostly realists. They know that fixing the deficit is the biggest challenge facing them. Savage cost cutting is the first step. they cant politically cut the defence budget. However being able to strong arm the Europeans into buying more overpriced boondoggles from the MIC will go a long way to keeping that significant sponsor onside. As ever the Europeans are the stool pigeons to get bilked for this
Yes there is a new Sherriff in town. Not a knight in shining armour but at least it isn’t Kamala Harris

Posted by: DaVinci | Feb 15 2025 17:02 utc | 128

“What the fuck do you think Trump is doing with DOGE?”
Posted by: canuck | Feb 15 2025 14:59 utc | 62
————————————————————————
“Mining for spare change in the couch cushions.”
Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2025 15:07 utc | 65
You missed the point of USAID-the CIA used it to have ‘revolutions’ to overthrow foreign govts; financed Wuhan covid lab work; subsidized 7,200 reporters-not to mention the BBC, NPR et al.
Shutting it down and taking control of it by the S of S isn’t about the $41 billion dollar budget-it is about kneecapping the Blob and taking back control..
You are quite sharp, I am mystified you don’t see the crux of the matter.

Posted by: canuck | Feb 15 2025 17:03 utc | 129

So Trump has to find lots of savings. USAID and the NED are relatively small potatoes, so he has to go after other routes. One is tariffs, that will fall mostly on the poorest in society and much of his MAGA base; regressive taxation. That still will not be enough though, and he can’t go too big on tariffs because of the inflationary effect. So he needs to make other cuts, like funding for Ukraine and getting the vassals to pay more for their occupying forces. And buy more US MIC overpriced shit, and overpriced US LNG to help the US economy and the related tax revenues. He is on a tight-rope as cuts in government spending are deflationary, especially if they impact high propensity to consume groups (e.g. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance etc.) while tariffs are inflationary – stagflation. So cut foreign spending as much as possible, raise tariffs a bit and reduce some defence spending which will be balanced by extra vassal MIC purchases.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 15 2025 13:44 utc | 23
I agree, Trump can’t get there from here, more or less, but if he could fully normalize relations with Russia, get their gas, oil flowing freely through the global economy again, I think he might be able to drastically reduce inflation.
Long shot, hail Mary pass, but it’s possible.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 17:07 utc | 130

You are quite sharp, I am mystified you don’t see the crux of the matter.
Posted by: canuck | Feb 15 2025 17:03 utc | 129

I am not so easily chummed as the common fish.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2025 17:08 utc | 131

Allow me serve as MOA Central Ohio cultural attaché. Ohio folks are generally known as honest, hard working but naive on matters of foreign affairs. The contradictions in speech stem from a well intentioned and blunt assessment of world affairs harkening back to a bygone era in which U.S. politicians maintained some semblance of decency. Ohioans are not steeped in corruption and often stand out in their plain spoken when they move to a city like New York, but are nevertheless welcomed as a relief from the cynicism. There is no point trying to read too much into an anterior motive because it is likely that none exists.

Posted by: Deniz 152 | Feb 15 2025 17:15 utc | 132

@Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 17:07 utc | 130
He needs much lower oil prices to do that, which would need the removal of sanctions against Russia, Iran and Venezuela. The latter two are non doable given his Zionist and Latino-Mafia oligarch and criminal supporters. His domestic oil and gas buddies would also not be so happy to see their wells become unprofitable.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 15 2025 17:17 utc | 133

Antiwar7
To add to my last reply to you ….
Vote Vladimiri Putin he’s the world leader of antifa !! You hered it here first.
He walks the walk, see ukraine.
Trump, uk reform, the Afd ect ect are fake con merchants.
How do i know ?
They blame the victems not the perpitrators. Ditto their followers.
Sheep !

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 15 2025 17:17 utc | 134

Sad to see otherwise generally intelligent commentators fall for the oligarchic-controlled candidate that is Trump. This is not a revolution, its simply a reordering of the oligarch mode of societal domination to better suit the times. A different part of the oligarchy is now gaining intra-class leadership.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 15 2025 17:19 utc | 135

This is a place for critical thinkers, not naive corn fed dipshits. There are plenty of Trump spaces where you can hoot about the coming world peace and economic prosperity.
———————————————
No, this is a place of a bunch of 110 IQ midwits sitting in their parent’s basement wiling their Cheetos stained fingers on their Che Guevara t-shirts so that they can type “Well, ackshully.”

Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 15 2025 17:21 utc | 136

Ok Vance’s statements don’t recognize the pervasive poisonous effect of the last 20 (30?) years of Neocons policies which can be seen in the regime change wars , erosion of civil liberties and free speech in favour of ‘narrative management’. If you pointed out the obvious falsehoods you were treated as a heretic. Hypocrisy? Yes.
While Vance certainly knows this it was probably too much to expect him to say that out loud on the podium. What is more important is that the US government is saying this stuff ( ie Russia was provoked and we have been lying consistently and suppressing dissent in the West) is the most important thing.
Time to get out European act together and start out the long and difficult road to rapprochement with Russia.

Posted by: Judge Barbier | Feb 15 2025 17:22 utc | 137

This is a place for critical thinkers, not naive corn fed dipshits. There are plenty of Trump spaces where you can hoot about the coming world peace and economic prosperity.
———————————————
No, this is a place of a bunch of 110 IQ midwits sitting in their parent’s basement wiling their Cheetos stained fingers on their Che Guevara t-shirts so that they can type “Well, ackshully.”
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 15 2025 17:21 utc | 136
Why, pray tell, are you here then, Cullen? Perhaps you’re projecting your tragic reality on the bar with this comment?
Plenty of Trump forums. Try them out. You’re just too damn good for us basement dwellers, you beautiful soul, you.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 17:29 utc | 138

While Vance certainly knows this it was probably too much to expect him to say that out loud on the podium. What is more important is that the US government is saying this stuff ( ie Russia was provoked and we have been lying consistently and suppressing dissent in the West) is the most important thing.
Time to get out European act together and start out the long and difficult road to rapprochement with Russia.
Posted by: Judge Barbier | Feb 15 2025 17:22 utc | 137
So true. I’m just happy they are speaking this way at all.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 17:29 utc | 139

Vance’s speech turns the European political landscape upside-down. In this speech, the “patriot” parties are ahead of the curve, while the traditional parties – christian-democrats, socialists, greens – are the ones that cling to the past, reject change. Thisis a Honecker moment for Scholz.

Posted by: Passerby | Feb 15 2025 17:30 utc | 140

Sad to see otherwise generally intelligent commentators fall for the oligarchic-controlled candidate that is Trump. This is not a revolution, its simply a reordering of the oligarch mode of societal domination to better suit the times. A different part of the oligarchy is now gaining intra-class leadership.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 15 2025 17:19 utc | 135
You are probably right, but it’s not unusual or unhealthy to see people enthused about the prospect of an end to the war.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 17:31 utc | 141

I posed the question here when it first appeared the USAID was going to be “reorganized” about how international relations can be made compliant with the self determination architecture of the UN Charter while the power to incite color revolutions remains. Maybe USAID has been “detuned”, but that hydra’s head can regrow. There will be life after Trump after all.
The chance that the US will permanently sideline the color revolution and similar toys is small because there is too much to be gained. I posited that the nuts and bolts of this, from the perspective of non US poles of the polarity, needs to be treaty based.
In the meantime, there are all manner of shiny objects flying about, while this i think salutary issue receds into shadow. So how from the point of view of the victims of color revolution assaults do you stop this from ever happening again. After all, this evil has just caused the death of a million men.
SECOND WITCH
By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Enter Macbeth.
MACBETH
How now, you secret, black, and midnight hags?
What is ’t you do?
ALL A deed without a name.

Posted by: frithguild | Feb 15 2025 17:31 utc | 142

@Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 17:07 utc | 130
He needs much lower oil prices to do that, which would need the removal of sanctions against Russia, Iran and Venezuela. The latter two are non doable given his Zionist and Latino-Mafia oligarch and criminal supporters. His domestic oil and gas buddies would also not be so happy to see their wells become unprofitable.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 15 2025 17:17 utc | 133
I was thinking doing that would in fact lower oil prices, hence transport cost and finally all prices. If he were to drop all sanctions on Russia as part of a deal on Ukraine, I have no doubt inflation would be tamed. Would he be able to do it? Unlikely but possible.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 17:34 utc | 143

Allow me serve as MOA Central Ohio cultural attaché. Ohio folks are generally known as honest, hard working but naive on matters of foreign affairs. The contradictions in speech stem from a well intentioned and blunt assessment of world affairs harkening back to a bygone era in which U.S. politicians maintained some semblance of decency. Ohioans are not steeped in corruption and often stand out in their plain spoken when they move to a city like New York, but are nevertheless welcomed as a relief from the cynicism. There is no point trying to read too much into an anterior motive because it is likely that none exists.
Posted by: Deniz 152 | Feb 15 2025 17:15 utc | 132
Go buckeyes! Good input. Sometimes it’s hard for non americans to understand the huge differences between people of different states.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 17:36 utc | 144

Of course, the response to the US from EU should be, “hmm, perhaps we’ll just restart trade and gas imports from Russia instead.”
Posted by: Ludovic | Feb 15 2025 16:29 utc | 106
Certainly, but not this crop of euro “leaders”. They’re spent casings. If and when the next drop comes, that should be the first issue on the agenda: rebuild fallen Europe on cheap Russian gas by ending all animosity with Russia.
Russia is not Imperialist. It is no threat to Europe if Europe simply accepts reality and treats Russia as an equal.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 17:43 utc | 145

thanks b… lots to consider here…
i concur with @ 105 zet and would like to thank Ghost of Mozgovoy | Feb 15 2025 15:07 utc | 64 and roger boyd for their posts here on this thread..

Posted by: james | Feb 15 2025 17:45 utc | 146

The USA is oligarchic, not democratic. It not less authoritarian than big bad China. It merely indulges in ritual elections between the Bigendians andthe Little-endians.

Posted by: lester | Feb 15 2025 17:51 utc | 147

Musk’s kid insulting Trump is a picture worth a thousand words.
Another is Trump demonstrating his ignorance about BRICS.
He suspects, perhaps, that China is a part of BRICS, but not sure.
Any case, they’ll get a 100 percent tariff.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Feb 15 2025 17:56 utc | 148

Posted by: canuck | Feb 15 2025 17:03 utc | 129
Again there are only two options
1) Trump was in on his own impeachment in 2019 and this is just all bullshit
Or
2) Canada, along with its British masters, attempted a coup of the USA and must be destroyed.
Pick one.

Posted by: Badjoke | Feb 15 2025 18:02 utc | 149

Russia is not Imperialist. It is no threat to Europe if Europe simply accepts reality and treats Russia as an equal.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 17:43 utc | 145
European leaders are beneath contempt at this point.
Moronic green ideology.
Destroyed industrial base.
Uncontrolled immigration.
Active warmongering without the industrial base and most importantly acquiescence of their population.

Posted by: jpc | Feb 15 2025 18:07 utc | 150

Vance said to rump Europe: “there is a new regime in the USA, forget the open ended attacks on RF. Forget the faux progressive war mongering, forget the neoliberal denial of self determination, that was the neocon party. Deep state is done in USA. Ya’alls need to get old school freedom”.
Stark revelation of change in USA.

Posted by: paddy | Feb 15 2025 18:09 utc | 151

Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 15 2025 17:21 utc | 136
Your Trumpian arse just got owned by Ahenobarbus Feb 15 2025 17:29 utc | 138

Posted by: Vragtes | Feb 15 2025 18:09 utc | 152

All these americans are the same. “It wasn’t me, it was the other jew who looks just like me, who stabbed you” as they come mewling and whining at you with a knife in hand.

Posted by: Jack M | Feb 15 2025 18:10 utc | 153

north america wont change. the maga hat is just lipstick on a pig.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Feb 15 2025 18:13 utc | 154

Mary | Feb 15 2025 15:34 utc | 77
Agreed, and some recent talks Nima has had on Dialogue Works reinforce your points. I recommend to everyone the latest talks with Alex Krainer and Scott Ritter (if you all haven’t already checked them out). Alex makes the point that for all of Trump’s failings, he is underestimated at peril; he is cunning and intelligent (though in a crude way). Ritter underscores this assertion by pointing out that Trump’s singularly outrageous proposals on Palestine have achieved what heretofore has never really happened over the course of the past 80 years, namely a concrete counterproposal (and real rather than rhetorical steps toward resolution) by the leadership of the Arab nations.
Lots more in both those talks that I think everyone here would find fascinating, and definitely worth considering.
The board of the ongoing great game is in motion more so now than in many decades, and it is way too soon to be shouting the odds in any direction.
In another recent talk with Nima, Pepe Escobar asserted that Trump would be cut to pieces by the merchants in the bazaars of Turkey and Iran; recent events show that, on the contrary, those merchants would probably give grudging respect to Trump for driving a hard and rather clever bargain.
Thanks again Mary, and b.

Posted by: robjira | Feb 15 2025 18:14 utc | 155

Most likely EU and UK attempting to cling on to Zelensky by force is working to the Russian advantage, as it allows Ukraine internally to crumble more than otherwise. Which works to increase odds of dissolution of the state.

Posted by: unimperator | Feb 15 2025 18:14 utc | 156

Meanwhile in the UK

UK refuses to release details of Peter Thiel’s meeting with former minister
Government argues disclosure could ‘prejudice diplomatic relations’

The UK government has refused to disclose details of a meeting between American billionaire Peter Thiel and a former minister on the grounds that doing so could harm “diplomatic relations” between Britain and the US.
Thiel, a Republican donor and prominent backer of US vice-president JD Vance, met the then-UK investment minister Lord Dominic Johnson in January 2024 to discuss the US and UK “investment environment”.
The UK’s Department for Business and Trade told the Financial Times it would not release full meeting notes because they include information on “Peter Thiel’s views on and approach to a meeting about an important policy issue”.
“Disclosure of the withheld information could prejudice diplomatic relations as the release would undermine the trust and confidence that foreign government[s] place on the UK,” the department said this week in response to a Freedom of Information request.
It added that disclosure “could potentially prejudice UK relations with the US”.
continues ==> https://www.ft.com/content/b7edd1bd-f736-451d-a551-f024e43ab145

Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2025 18:17 utc | 157

@117
And Putin smirks and say come “get them”.
Yves closed comments at Naked Capitalism, bc she makes statements that get crushed.

Posted by: paddy | Feb 15 2025 18:17 utc | 158

Coming up is the clash between the bought-and-paid-for US congress and its desire to expand the war budget in order to take on the “chinese Communist party,” versus Trump’s claim to support a large budget reduction in military expenses.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 15 2025 18:18 utc | 159

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 15 2025 16:32 utc | 108
Maybe the Spanish “regodearse” would do, basically it means schadenfreude GR, gloating EN, jubiler FR, or злорастдвовать RU, but it contains the root “goth” which some linguist erroneously links to “living like a German”, the root actually is gaudere from Latin, same root for joy in EN. Maybe someone with knowledge of Asian languages could find something more specific that concerns demoralization.

Posted by: Paco | Feb 15 2025 18:19 utc | 160

Don Bacon (70).
Thanks for correcting me, on the length of the tenure – personally I think Trump will have caused so much animosity, within US businesses, that will lead to discontent, and even anger towards him, from the American public in the next four years that he won’t be re-elected – protectionism, and heavy sanctions must come with a cost – of course – the US is used to dominating in the an economic sense in the Western hemisphere – but I foresee multipolarism flourishing, and spreading from East to West.
Trump is of course first and foremost a businessman – and he’s thinking like a businessman as POTUS – in how his business (America) can dominate the market (the world) using business tools (sanctions/tariffs etc) at his disposal.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 15 2025 18:21 utc | 161

Americans want Europe to hand over it’s industry to USA, but they understand that if these lizards currently in power do it, there’ll be an uprising. So, instead, they want people with strong democratic mandates to be in power, so that once they hand over industry, it sticks.
Key sentence: “If you’re going to enjoy competitive economies, if you’re going to enjoy affordable energy and secure supply chains, then you need mandates to govern because you have to make difficult choices to enjoy all of these things.” Of course, you need to interpet things like “affordable energy” loosely. 🙂 No need to interpret “difficult choices” loosely. xD

Posted by: rert | Feb 15 2025 18:22 utc | 162

Glenn Diesen in discussion with Alexander Mercouris and John Mearsheimer
Trump To Force Ukraine Peace on Europe

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 15 2025 18:22 utc | 163

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Feb 15 2025 17:56 utc | 148
Again with the superficial understanding of matters. Oh, see the looks of this! Wow what he said or how he behaved! What a shame!
All the while Trump and Musk are deconstructing the virus of virtually all that has made the world a worse place in the past.

Posted by: alek_a | Feb 15 2025 18:23 utc | 164

“So Trump has to find lots of savings. USAID and the NED are relatively small potatoes, so he has to go after other routes. ”
G*d forbid that Trump pay his taxes!

Posted by: lester | Feb 15 2025 18:35 utc | 165

All the while Trump and Musk are deconstructing the virus of virtually all that has made the world a worse place in the past.
Posted by: alek_a | Feb 15 2025 18:23 utc | 164

Who needs Constitutional Law anyway? Abrogate everything. Guardrails are for sissies. Test yourself against the chaos of raw power.
It’ll be fun!

Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2025 18:35 utc | 166

Posted by: canuck | Feb 15 2025 14:59 utc | 62
When did you and the other non American Trump supporters resort to being such childish hero worshipping name calling brats? Your guy won and has his chance to either live up to your unrealistic expectations or fail. Stop being such thin skinned pussies and learn to take and address criticism on its merits, or deal earnestly with your perception of the lack thereof. IOW grow up and stop turning MOA comments into a cesspool of personal spats and grudges.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 15 2025 18:37 utc | 167

Republicofscotland | Feb 15 2025 18:21 utc | 161
This is Trump’s 2nd term in office. He can’t be reelected.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 15 2025 18:40 utc | 168

@b,
“While I agree with Vance on this I wonder if he can acknowledge his own U.S. made hypocrisy. It were not the Europeans who initiated the campaign against ‘disinformation’.”
Of course JD Vance did acknowledge that the loudest voices for censorship come from the USA. Otherwise what else did he mean when he said: “Free speech, I fear, is in retreat and in the interests of comedy, my friends, but also in the interest of truth, I will admit that sometimes the loudest voices for censorship have come not from within Europe, but from within my own country, where the prior administration threatened and bullied social media companies to censor so-called misinformation.”?

Posted by: Steve | Feb 15 2025 18:40 utc | 169

sean the leprechaun (75).
With England in mind – its loathing of Russia dates back centuries, when the English feared the Russians could influence, or even invade India, which was then the Jewel of the British Empire – then the hatred of the Russians was known as the Great Game – of which Whitehall and Westminster still sees as active.
Opium was produced in great quantities in India and shipped to addicts, and to create more addicts in China – if the Chinese authorities complained – English gunboat diplomacy was used, some things never changed.
The French and the Germans – still think that they are notable Imperial forces around the globe, and of course they sit at lofty heights within the EU – the French are currently being kicked-out of many countries in Africa – after centuries of colonial imperialist rule, in which they stole x amount in assets – as for Germany it too played its part in the Scramble for Africa – and its old school hierarchy – will never forgive Russia for defeating it in WWII – that sentiment still runs deep -as it does with the French when the Russian marched right into Paris in 1814 – led by Emperor Alexander I, in the final battle of the Napoleonic campaign.
Its said that so many Russian troops entered Paris and required service, food and drink – that the word Bistro had it definition changed – as Russian troops wanted a quick service.
“The word “bistro” is a term commonly used to describe a type of casual dining establishment. It originated in France and is derived from the Russian word “bystro,” which means “quickly.” In French, “bistro” originally referred to a small, neighborhood restaurant that served simple, home-cooked meals at affordable prices.”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 15 2025 18:40 utc | 170

@117
And Putin smirks and say come “get them”.
Yves closed comments at Naked Capitalism, bc she makes statements that get crushed.
Posted by: paddy | Feb 15 2025 18:17 utc | 158
True of every cowardly comment closer: they can stand up in a open fight. I’ll ignore almost any site that does this.
Let everything that cannot withstand criticism perish!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 18:41 utc | 171

Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2025 18:17 utc | 157
>>>>
DJ’s traumatic childhood is little known. When he was few months old, his mother killed his dad.

Posted by: pepe | Feb 15 2025 18:43 utc | 172

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 15 2025 18:37 utc | 167
Hear, Hear!

Posted by: Siddhartha | Feb 15 2025 18:43 utc | 173

SECOND WITCH
By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Enter Macbeth.
MACBETH
How now, you secret, black, and midnight hags?
What is ’t you do?
ALL A deed without a name.
Posted by: frithguild | Feb 15 2025 17:31 utc | 142
Loving the Shakespeare. Frailty, thy name is Ursula!

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 18:44 utc | 174

Roger Boyd@111
You’re on fire today Roger! Little Narco? Did you give him that handle? Appreciate your posts.
“Little Narco … He isn’t the boss, he’s the servant.”
Seems like all the Trumpsters are high, maybe even hallucinating. Check out this picture of Rubio. Someone needs to add a thought bubble like the comic strips.
https://orinocotribune.com/venezuela-condemns-false-and-reckless-statements-by-us-southcom-chief/

Posted by: migueljose | Feb 15 2025 18:44 utc | 175

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 18:41 utc | 171
NC closed comments due to an alleged deluge of garbage that was too much to moderate. Even b moderates comments and MOA traffic is lower than NC’s. That said, as someone who could never get even a reasonable comment past their moderation in years of trying I will never donate money to Yves and co. But none of us know the true volume they were dealing with.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 15 2025 18:46 utc | 176

“In Europe, with few exceptions, governments are formed from two nearly identical blocks, centre-right and centre-left, both neoliberal, pro-immigration, pro-sexual degeneracy, pro-green policies, in summary, leftish (not real Left).
America has a real division between conservatives and liberals. ”
Actually the description of Euro politics describes the US as well. Although I’d say that “sexual degeneracy” is always with us in every time and place. LIkewise. the US has always needed immigrant workers and immigrant scientists and engineers. We natives are educated to be Trump-type crooks.

Posted by: lester | Feb 15 2025 18:52 utc | 177

1) US started the war in US backed and led former state of Ukraine when it launched the Maidan Coup (funded by USAID)
. . .
Posted by: chunga | Feb 15 2025 13:42 utc | 21
============
I think Canada also had a big hand in creating the circumstances within Ukraine that led to the coup.
Ukrainian Nazis are a big force in Canada. John Gilberts posted a detailed article at the previous thread. I have also read about the Ukrainian Nazi fifth column in Canada at other blogs. Just look at Chrystia Freeland.

Posted by: Jane | Feb 15 2025 18:52 utc | 178

For you to test that the financial elites had this plan made in advance, and what the Vance´s reprimand was about, the Financial Times has published an estimated of how much each European citizen should pay a year to substitute US financial support for Ukraine…
As they consider us just numbers and factors for exploitation, as was demonstrated four years ago, downgrading us to lab rats, they have not conisder here that amongst the 637 million non-“American” NATO citizens they have shared the bill, there are alos newborns, elders, unemployed, and unable and mentallu ill people, ( but, who cares…hey must pay us, period…)
Thus, take into account that of the 108$ a year they have calculated for you, you will have to pay the share of those unactive people, with which your “tariff” will grow exponentially

Yet the US’s support for Ukraine is less essential than often imagined. The US allocated nearly $183bn to Ukraine from February 2022 to September 2024. That works out at about $69bn a year. Nato’s 637 million non-American citizens could replace this at a cost of $108 a year each..”

https://pnqk.me/fx5n9b ( via @InessaS TG channel…)
This is what Trump means by “tariff”, that they will make us pay, one way or another, their required 500.000 million earnings BlackRock was unable to extract from Ukraine…
If we consent to this new plundering, from a war we were never consulted to get into, after the 2008 scam, then we deserve everything that comes after that, the requisition of propierties and bank funds, with or without violence, it´s we to chose…like the Palestinians, Syrians, Lybians, before…

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Feb 15 2025 18:53 utc | 179

Sad to see otherwise generally intelligent commentators fall for the oligarchic-controlled candidate that is Trump. This is not a revolution, its simply a reordering of the oligarch mode of societal domination to better suit the times. A different part of the oligarchy is now gaining intra-class leadership.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 15 2025 17:19 utc | 135
So true; it’s just a staged revolution.
Why can’t people see it? It’s basically what the US oligarchy always does: just look at the Maidan, Georgia, Hong Kong etc.
All you have to do is make people want freedom and show them a supposed solution: “leave your authoritarian regime behind by voting / protesting for X”, that’s the basic message all the time.
And if they already got freedom, like in the West, you will need to restrict it first (think DEI). But in the end, it’s always the same playbook.
It’s like the Maidan:
2014: “leave the authoritarian Russia behind you and vote for Western Freedom ™”
2025: “leave the authoritarian Democrats behind you and vote for MAGA Freedom”

Posted by: Zet | Feb 15 2025 18:56 utc | 180

Tom_Q_Collins (168).
Yes you are correct – the 22nd Amendment states that a POTUS can only serve two-terms as POTUS.
https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/amendments/amendment-xxii
However.
“Only one person has served more than two terms as president: Franklin D. Roosevelt. He was the longest-sitting president in United States history, serving from 1933 to 1945.
That third term led to controversy, according to the National Constitution Center. The nation’s first president, George Washington, had established a precedent of only two terms in office per president, and some saw Roosevelt’s break from tradition as a threat to democracy. ”
“In 1947, Congress approved the 22nd amendment. The amendment was ratified in February 1951. ”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 15 2025 18:59 utc | 181

Posted by: rert | Feb 15 2025 18:22 utc | 162
Bingo!

Posted by: Zet | Feb 15 2025 19:01 utc | 182

@Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Feb 15 2025 18:53 utc | 179
I could not read the Financial Times article on European citizens sharing of Ukrainain debt to the US, because it is behind paywall, but what the excerpt made by @InessaS does not mention is for how many years thye have calculated we should pay 108$ a year each of us, Europeans…
I would say for ever, that is the intention, as the status of mere anglosaxon financiers´colonies settles….
This, I asure you, will blow out any possibilty of peace and security in Europe for the ages to come, as always has been, since wars out of this mass thieving and continuous humiliation will follow

Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Feb 15 2025 19:04 utc | 183

Thus, take into account that of the 108$ a year they have calculated for you
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Feb 15 2025 18:53 utc | 179

The RoW is already paying this! The USA has a printing press and everybody else is on the hook to make them whole.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2025 19:04 utc | 184

Now, the context is appropriate for Fico and Orban to veto the next extension of the sanctions regime?

Posted by: scc | Feb 15 2025 19:06 utc | 185

They can’t because their mental model does not allow it.
You really have to try thinking like them…
Posted by: Zet | Feb 15 2025 16:50 utc | 119
Here’s an example of their mental model, enjoy Analena Baerbroken on this Friday evening:
https://x.com/fwarweg/status/1890812866657141133
Listen closely (“speaking for my own country, YAAA…”), watch her body language and then laugh about the content of this crap…

Posted by: Zet | Feb 15 2025 19:10 utc | 186

Hitler was voted in

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 15 2025 14:40 utc | 52
========
No.

Posted by: Jane | Feb 15 2025 19:11 utc | 187

Rubio calls Lavro. Trump already spoke to Putin. The US of A never learn.

Posted by: pepe | Feb 15 2025 19:13 utc | 188

It’s premature to celebrate anything. Yeah, it’s satisfying to hear Vance rip the Euro-tards a new orifice. And certainly, it can’t help the morale of the UAF.
But we have to remember that the US is non-agreement capable. Trump and Vance could be running a game to make the Russians let their guard down. Russia must keep up the pressure, more FABs need to fly, more mercs need to have their skulls shattered, and more bombs need to hit Kiev.
I am beginning to see why SB/Anon2022 are so frustrated with the pace of the Russia operation. It’s time to freakin’ go for the kill.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 15 2025 19:15 utc | 189

>The oligarchy have already lined up his replacements in 4 years on the right; JD, Tulsi, Little Narco …
Don’t forget about Pammy Bondage. She would make a great Fuehrer, all dressed up in black leather and six-inch stilettos.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 15 2025 19:20 utc | 190

2) Canada, along with its British masters, attempted a coup of the USA and must be destroyed.
Pick one.
Posted by: Badjoke | Feb 15 2025 18:02 utc | 149
====================
No. 2 is quite possible.
Britain and its colonials would like to see the breakup of the USA.
They even write books about it.
It’s their wet dream.

Posted by: Jane | Feb 15 2025 19:21 utc | 191

Jane @ 187
No ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 15 2025 19:22 utc | 192

Loving the Shakespeare. Frailty, thy name is Ursula!
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 15 2025 18:44 utc | 174
Thank you for your kind comment.
To me, a major factor in why the SMO is being fought is because it is the first testing of new technology, specifically drones and ai. Every time new technogy introduces itself, the calculus regarding what can be gained changes, laying the ground for warmaking policy errors. Thus, this is Dronewar I.
Another major factor is information management. So the X relationship with the Whitehouse is no surprise. This is kind of like what Jetemy Clarkson said. You put a turbocharger on the car, witchcraft goes in, and the car goes faster. Here, witchcraft is going in to information management, and money comes ot of an other country faster.
So how do you makes rules against such witchcraft? Does a soverign entity have the right to know a spell has been cast against it? What spell?
Technology looks like magic when viewer doesn’t understand it, certainly. It seems to me that the world is not ready to put guardrails on this technology yet because the distractions and diversions from this topic are fast and furious right now. There are still too many opportunities to profit from capturing the tools of other governments.
The deaths of a million men doesn’t matter.

Posted by: frithguild | Feb 15 2025 19:23 utc | 193

Jane | Feb 15 2025 18:52 utc | 178–
Sorry I never had time to reply to your last about Canada being the recipient of numerous Nazis after WW2, many from Ukraine but also from Germany and other European states. And as old hippie has noted, many settled in the Chicago area.
///////////////////////////////
Vance’s speech being devoid of historical context was positive and negative simultaneously. Very much like the bully who lost a playground battle because his seconds failed to perform. That it was shortly followed by Trump saying the “defense” budget ought to be whacked by 50% provided a double-whammy to the internal forces he’s fighting–you see, Vance used quite a lot of projection in his speech when it’s closely read, which is one reason why it’s devoid of historical context. And when you compare what the Outlaw US Empire has stated versus what was written in the MSC’s official documents that are linked within “Frontrunning the Munich Security Conference 14-16 February” I published 5 days ago and few took the opportunity to read, the chasm is even more pronounced. What now will be the Conference’s result as it still has one more day to run?
And lost in all this is the fact that Russia wasn’t invited and thus wouldn’t be able to meet any of Trump’s reps there. However, as I noted, they could’ve met at either embassy in Berlin, and that any such result would be announced by the Russian President’s Office, not its MFA. So, what’s the impact of what’s been said over the last 48 hours by Trump and his officials on the overall negotiation atmosphere? What signals were sent? No one on this thread has contemplated any of that. Yes, Vance threw a grenade into the European Conference room and everyone scattered, while the non-European guests sat and watched.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 15 2025 19:32 utc | 194

Posted by: Jane | Feb 15 2025 19:21 utc | 191
Could you provide references for those books? The more I think about it, the breakup of the USA sounds like a good idea.

Posted by: Siddhartha | Feb 15 2025 19:37 utc | 195

Pretty much everything Trump has done and said after taking office makes sense through the financial straight-jacket lens. His love of tariffs, DOGE, ending the Ukraine war, threats to get the Europeans to spend more. Also, his threats against anyone pulling away from the US$ reserve currency standard. His calls for lower interest rates from the Fed. He understands how fragile things are, with the economy and the banks reliant on so much monetary and fiscal largesse, and the only reason the US has not had GFC-3 being the US$ reserve currency status. Otherwise the US would like Argentina, or the UK after WW2.
Maintaining his previous gifts for his oligarch friends and providing more will be like pushing the fat man through the eye of the needle, but he will try really hard. Everything else stems from this drive to serve his oligarch class friends. Fuck the little people and Fuck the Palestinians. The US fiscal and monetary position cannot be fixed without a huge retrenchment, and that is far too threatening to the oligarchy (short of an outright fascist dictatorship a la President Wilson from 1917-1921). Without continuing fiscal and monetary largesse the US financial system would be in crisis very quickly, and the system can certainly not deal with even greater deficits that will dump the dollar and drive up the interest rates on the debt.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 15 2025 14:03 utc | 34
All of which is complete rubbish considering deficits are $’s held by the public as cash and the debt are $’s held by the public as US treasuries.
The only thing you have right is they are looking through a gold standard and fixed the exchange rate lens.
Yet, they are lobbying to increase the debt by $3 trillion. Why are they doing this Roger ? Why are ” sound money ” guys lobbying to increase the treasuries held by the public by $3 trillion ?
For the massive tax cuts they are about to give to the rich. Who won’t spend it as they enough money already and what they will receive they will swap for treasuries.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 15 2025 19:42 utc | 196

Now we have Medvedev’s appraisal:
“The anti-Russian coven in Munich was particularly unsettled this time by the blatantly provocative speech of Vice President Vance. I must admit—surprisingly, he turned on the heat. Everyone expected the usual diplomatic courtesies toward Europe from its partner, along with comments on Donald Trump’s remarks about ending the Ukrainian conflict. But instead, he took the floor and harshly reprimanded the Europeans, who have completely lost themselves in recent years: your democracy is weak, your elections are garbage, and your rules, which violate basic human morality, are crap. And you don’t even have freedom of speech! They certainly would have held this against him—if he weren’t the American boss. But since he is, they’ll let it slide and resentfully swallow that brutal dressing-down from their senior partner. He’s actually a bold guy, even if still an inexperienced vice president. Moreover, he told the truth. He said exactly what modern Europe amounts to. And we can add even more. Today’s Europe, within the EU’s borders, is a bitter, feeble hag trying to disguise herself as a young and striking beauty. The era of such a Europe is irreversibly gone. It is weak, unattractive, and of little use to anyone—except itself.
“P.S. The Kiev clown 🤡 chastised Trump for everything possible. That is, the washed-up beggar & thief spat into the giver’s hand. The question is, how will Trump react?”
Indeed! Events are moving swiftly at the outset as it appears Saudi Arabia will be the venue for initial talks that might include a face-to-face with Trump and Putin.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 15 2025 19:43 utc | 197

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 15 2025 19:32 utc | 194
Um, my sources tell me that there have been talks with Russia in Munich.
But since Russia can’t enter European airspace the Russian diplomats got fetched by a Gulfstream C-37B in Moscow.
According to sources one of them is even sanctioned, well, if it matches the rumors: Дмитриев, Кирилл Александрович
https://sanctionssearch.ofac.treas.gov/Details.aspx?id=34336

Posted by: Zet | Feb 15 2025 19:44 utc | 198

karlof1@1932 Feb 15
Deja Vous all over again? Something stuck in my memory glands was spotlighted on Munich back in ’38, even before I was born. Seems this Brit, signifyable by his bumbershoot, took a flight to that German beerhall city and had some chats with some locals and coming to some on paper agreements; hustled back to London Towne and in deplaning, proudly mumbled a message of peace while clinging staunchly to that umbrella agreement.
There’s something about conferences in Munich. Perhaps next time all participants should hold their confabs in one of those beer halls, complete with waitress Madchens holding high those massive steins, while the mom-pah-pah bands grind out some traditional tunes. Perhaps that atmosphere of gemutligkeit would lubricate the goings on.
Better theater, anyway, than anything real getting done in one of those cavernous hotel suites.

Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 15 2025 19:48 utc | 199

Who needs Constitutional Law anyway? Abrogate everything. Guardrails are for sissies. Test yourself against the chaos of raw power.
It’ll be fun!
Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2025 18:35 utc | 166
==============
Which aspect of the Constitution is being violated, by what, exactly?

Posted by: Jane | Feb 15 2025 19:52 utc | 200