Ukraine - The Beginning Of The End (Which Is Yet Far Away)
Trump's opening gambit in the negotiations with Russia about Ukraine has caused some waves.
U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced that the borderland, i.e. Ukraine, will have to give up territory to Russia. There will be no place for Ukraine in NATO. The U.S. will give no security guarantees to Ukraine. Neither the U.S. military nor NATO will take part in any peacekeeping mission in Ukraine.
With that the U.S. conceded to Russia two of its main requests. Four Ukrainian oblast plus Crimea will become parts of Russia. NATO enlargement towards the east has been stopped. Any U.S. deployment to Ukraine is, for now, out of question.
The devil however is in the details. Russia will want legal agreements and guarantees. It knows that these might (again) be broken but it is still be better to have those than none.
There is also no agreement at all, when, where and how the fighting might stop.
The Trump administration wants an immediate ceasefire along the current line of contact. For Russia this just a repeat of Minsk 1 and 2 agreements which were used to prop up Ukraine. It is not a sufficient solution.
The Russian readout of yesterday's Trump-Putin call says:
Donald Trump spoke in favour of stopping the hostilities as soon as possible and solving the crisis peacefully.In turn, Vladimir Putin pointed out it was necessary to eliminate the root causes of the conflict.
Trump wants a ceasefire, Putin wants more.
The question of NATO membership for Ukraine is only one element of the root causes of the conflict. What is necessary to conclude the war is a long lasting indivisible European security structure in which every major country can feel save and secure.
In late 2021 Russia presented two papers to the U.S. and NATO which point to potential solutions. Discussions on those have not even started. This will be a long process.
Unless a structure of indivisible security in Europe is found and agreed upon Russia will have to use military means to guarantee security for itself and its allies. Its Special Military Operation is likely to continue until that objective has been achieved.
There is no sign that Trump has recognized the larger issue at hand and is willing to talk about it. When he finds out that there is no short term solution - a ceasefire - to have, he might want to dump the whole issue and ignore the outcome: "Let Europe take care ..."
When the Biden administration provoked and executed the proxy war against Russia, major European countries ignored their own interest and behaved like U.S. vassals. They now make noise about being left out of the peace process.
Well, if you behave like vassals and ignore your own interest why are you astonished when you are treated like vassals and have your own interests ignored? Grow some balls and fight for your interests. Then maybe, just maybe, other will also start to keep your interests in mind.
Posted by b on February 13, 2025 at 15:51 UTC | Permalink
next page »Seeing articles this morning in several European publications comparing Trump to Chamberlain and stating that Putin is preparing for large scale war by 2030. lol
Good luck, bitches. The US is done with Europe. lol
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 16:02 utc | 2
Here in Canada I've never seen a politician with "balls" on the geopolitical stage. I was too young to assess Justin's father at the time he was in power, though he seems to have earned respect from other nations' leaders
Posted by: Chris N | Feb 13 2025 16:05 utc | 3
The US is done with Europe. lolPosted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 16:02 utc | 2
I would certainly hope so. Now, will you US-Americans show us your sincerity and remove all of your troops away from Germany, and from Europe? We don't want you here.
Posted by: jure | Feb 13 2025 16:06 utc | 4
Why is Putin eager to talk? Because of a failure to win determinably on the ground, with many casualties. I'm looking at you, Pokrovsk and Kursk.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2025 16:14 utc | 5
What if defending Ukraine from Putin aggression is their interests? How will this website react if Europeans rally behind this interest instead of following Trump's lead of being Putin's Petain/Quisling?
Posted by: TopaInkaYupanqui | Feb 13 2025 16:17 utc | 6
Trump’s Ukraine Plans Mean a $3 Trillion Bill for European Vassals
Posted by: Apollyon | Feb 13 2025 16:21 utc | 7
Chihuahuas that grow balls tend to get taken to the vet...
The Chihuahua Choir presents Synchronised Yapping:
Panic Grips European Leaders as EU Left Out of Trump-Putin Callhttps://sputnikglobe.com/20250213/panic-grips-european-leaders-as-eu-left-out-of-trump-putin-call-1121563947.htmlRussian President Vladimir Putin and his US counterpart Donald Trump discussed Ukraine, the Middle East, energy issues, and the exchange of citizens in a telephone call that lasted for one and a half hours, Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov revealed.
The phone conversation between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump has triggered a litany of reactions from European politicians.
Britain's Foreign Secretary David Lammy posted a joined statement by several European states that read: “Our shared objectives should be to put Ukraine in a position of strength. Ukraine and Europe must be part of any negotiations.”
UK Defense Secretary John Healey claimed that no peace talks could be done “about Ukraine without Ukraine.”
Boris Pistorius, Germany's defense chief, lamented the development as "regrettable" arguing that the Trump administration had made "concessions" to Russia, while asserting that “it would have been better to speak about a possible NATO membership for Ukraine or possible losses of territory at the negotiating table."Joining the bandwagon, Germany Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock added that “peace can only be achieved together. And that means: with Ukraine and with the Europeans.”
In addition, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk declared that "All we need is peace… Ukraine, Europe and the United States should work on this together."
For his part, French top diplomat Jean-Noel Barrot insisted that "There will be no just and durable peace in Ukraine without Europeans."
Meanwhile, Estonian Defense Minister Hanno Pevkur chimed in, saying: "Europe is investing in Ukrainian defense, and Europe is rebuilding Ukraine with European Union money, with our bilateral aid – so we have to be there."
And finally, NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte called for turbo-charging defense production among member states, adding: “We have to make sure that Ukraine is in a position of strength.”
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 13 2025 16:22 utc | 8
Yes, when does the last Ukrainian die for this proxy war? I still think that the Ukraine military is what/who needs to surrender.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 13 2025 16:01 utc | 1
==============
Doesn't there have to be a legal president/ head of state to order the military to surrender?
Posted by: Jane | Feb 13 2025 16:22 utc | 9
What if defending Ukraine from Putin aggression is their interests? How will this website react if Europeans rally behind this interest instead of following Trump's lead of being Putin's Petain/Quisling?Posted by: TopaInkaYupanqui | Feb 13 2025 16:17 utc | 6
Nope, being in good terms with Russia and China is in our best interests here in Europe. Eurasia is a much better future for us than than the Atlantic partnership. I truly hope the Yanks would make good of the threat of leaving us alone.
Posted by: jure | Feb 13 2025 16:23 utc | 10
I would certainly hope so. Now, will you US-Americans show us your sincerity and remove all of your troops away from Germany, and from Europe? We don't want you here.
Posted by: jure | Feb 13 2025 16:06 utc
__________________________________________________________________
Only too pleased to do. Of course, they’ll be bringing back your factories with them.
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 16:24 utc | 11
When he finds out (or can no longer hide) the fact that the US sent 1 million middle aged proxies to their deaths needlessly, he will certainly dump the blame on Europe.
To be frank, we, the Europeans, deserve that. Cowards the lot of us.
Posted by: Mickey Droy | Feb 13 2025 16:24 utc | 12
re: major European countries ignored their own interest
That's because major European countries have been hog-tied by the European Union, an illegal entity which destroyed national sovereignty.
I'm reminded of the Macron and Ursula visit to China, on the same airplane, with Macron getting the red-carpet & review the troops entre while Ursula had to go through customs like the other nobodies.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2025 16:26 utc | 13
@ TopaInkaYupanqui 6
Large countries like France, Germany and the UK only have enough ammunition for a few days of high intensity conflict with Russia. So the only weight they can push around is that of their words. Which might fail to impress. At the end of the day, you have an army or you don’t. They don’t.
Posted by: Shahmaran | Feb 13 2025 16:27 utc | 14
Well, if you behave like vassals and ignore your own interest why are you astonished when you are treated like vassals and have your own interests ignored?
-b
But was it ever in the EU's interest to ignore their own interests? I would say not.
Thus, the EU is being ignored
while it whines
that it is being ignored
that it wants to
continue ignoring it's own interests.
Or, as I read b again,
that is what b meant all along.
Posted by: librul | Feb 13 2025 16:28 utc | 15
In the meantime, this just happened to Kolomoisky, Poreshenko and about 6 other CIA puppets.
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/47065
Yikes!
Onwards the circus trundles to its inevitable denounement...
Posted by: Skeletor | Feb 13 2025 16:28 utc | 16
*** Why is Putin eager to talk? ***
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2025 16:14 utc | 5
Elensky: We can give up territory in Kursk in exchange for territory in the Donbass!
Response: Widespread missile strikes
US: We will bring Russia to the table with more sanctions!
RF: GDP growth rate is 4.1% without inflation, with all this external pressure and sanctions, and many economic theories that are written in textbooks will be adjusted. So, please more sanctions.
Now that's eagerness. Hegseth has repeated some of what the RF has been saying for years. All that has happend is the RF saying, "I heard you say that. Nice."
Posted by: Frithguild | Feb 13 2025 16:28 utc | 17
Nope, being in good terms with Russia and China is in our best interests here in Europe.
Posted by: jure | Feb 13 2025 16:23 utc | 10
Sounds like how US Imperialists would insist that "being in good terms with the US" was in the best interests of Latin American and Caribbean countries, not to mention Canada. Why should Putin impose a Monroe Doctrine on Europe?
Posted by: TopaInkaYupanqui | Feb 13 2025 16:28 utc | 18
Why is Putin eager to talk? Because of a failure to win determinably on the ground, with many casualties. I'm looking at you, Pokrovsk and Kursk.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2025 16:14 utc | 5
Did you mean Why is Trump eager to talk ? It's in all the newspapers. Internet, too.
Posted by: elmagnostic | Feb 13 2025 16:29 utc | 19
US Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent is in Kiev laying down terms for what amounts to a protection racket: continuing US military aid in exchange for rare earth mineral extraction contracts.
Gilbert Doctorow has been saying the minerals in question are effectively inaccessible as the costs related to their extraction exceed their actual value.
Posted by: jayc | Feb 13 2025 16:30 utc | 20
@elmagnostic | Feb 13 2025 16:29 utc | 19
re: It's in all the newspapers. Internet, too.
That's a good one, a real knee-slapper.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2025 16:34 utc | 21
Posted by: jayc | Feb 13 2025 16:30 utc | 20
US wants money or minerals as payment for their investment (Trump claims this is $300 billion), as to whether or not they are 500 feet under the ground is immaterial. How to deliver them is Zelensky's problem. No Return On Investment, no aid, case closed.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 13 2025 16:35 utc | 22
Sounds like how US Imperialists would insist that "being in good terms with the US" was in the best interests of Latin American and Caribbean countries, not to mention Canada. Why should Putin impose a Monroe Doctrine on Europe?Posted by: TopaInkaYupanqui | Feb 13 2025 16:28 utc | 18
I never said we must be vassals (which we are currently, only to the U.S.), but merely on good terms, with both sides respecting each other. Being on bad terms with Russia and China only hurts us.
Posted by: jure | Feb 13 2025 16:35 utc | 23
A good thing for the people of the Earth: Trump wants peace
A bad thing for the people of the Earth: Trump is not a deep thinking man
What we are seeing is a group of world leaders and powers who are to stupid to know when they just got their butts kicked
Posted by: MRDMK | Feb 13 2025 16:39 utc | 24
psychohistorian | Feb 13 2025 16:01 utc | 1--
Lavrov's answer to a Q about the call is muy importante:
Question (retranslated from English): Is there any hope for a possible fundamental change of course and improvement in relations between Russia and the United States after yesterday's telephone conversation between US President Donald Trump and President of Russia Vladimir Putin? President of Russia Vladimir Putin said that the most important part of any talks between Ukraine and Russia is the resolution of the existing fundamental problems that led to the conflict in Ukraine and must be resolved. What are these fundamental problems that Donald Trump must understand in order for the talks to be successful?Sergey Lavrov: First of all, the question itself ("Do we think it is possible to improve relations between Russia and the United States after yesterday's telephone conversation?") demonstrates the "abnormality" of the years that we lived under the Biden administration.
After the start of the special military operation, Russia was accused of all sins. For many years, no one heard our warnings about the root causes (I will talk about them in a little more detail later). Agreements reached several times in a row on how to save Ukraine after the Nazi coup d'état, stimulated and financed by the West, were not implemented in any way. We had no choice but to solve this problem on our own by declaring a special military operation.
I was struck by the fact that now the whole world has fallen into a kind of "stupor" and considers the telephone conversation and the announcement of it as something out of the ordinary. This is what the employees of the Biden administration, led by their president, have brought themselves to. Their European satellites, who have "discarded" dialogue and diplomacy as a method of communicating with the outside world, have switched to the language of threats, sanctions and arming the Nazi Kiev regime to wage war against the Russian Federation, including sending their specialists to target long-range missiles supplied to this regime for strikes on Russian territory. You can see the victims of the atrocities committed by the Ukrainian Nazis. We do not hear them condemned in the West.
Judging by the "stupor" caused by the telephone talks between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, everything that is happening in Ukraine, everything that the Nazi regime of Vladimir Zelensky is doing, the West has begun to take for granted. "This is how we should communicate with Russia." That is probably why many people in the West, starting with the leaders of the European Union, were stunned when a normal, elementary conversation took place between two well-mannered, polite people who do not "push" aside differences. There are many of them. But they are well aware that politics is about sitting down to talk and looking for common ground.
I am sorry that the reaction of the West indicates that there are practically no such people left. Two well-mannered people show how to engage in politics. But I hope this will sober up those who have forgotten it a little and will force them to re-read history textbooks and school textbooks of political science. [My Emphasis]
One other unmentioned issue of large consequence is Trump's insistence that all aid provided to Ukraine be repaid, similar to what Wilson demanded at the end of WW1, although that support was actual loans. As far as I'm aware, much of that was indeed treated as aid, not as loans, which was a key determiner as to the depth of Outlaw US Empire involvement in the war--that it was waging an undeclared war against Russia, which IMO is how Trump is being forced to approach negotiations as the losing side because it is.
b: "Well, if you behave like vassals and ignore your own interest why are you astonished when you are treated like vassals and have your own interests ignored?"
quote of the month
Posted by: AG | Feb 13 2025 16:40 utc | 26
U$$A has no bona fides with RF!
For any cease RF must have immediate end to all economic warfare: end sanctions, release all deposits with accrued earnings. Immediately ship all U$$A military assets prepositions out of Baltics, Poland and Rumania. Suspend Article 5 in all former Warsaw states….
Then talk reparations and indemnity for RF losses.
War crime rials for all Banderaists, with appropriate hangings.
Disarm all of Kiev.
Posted by: paddy | Feb 13 2025 16:40 utc | 27
US wants money or minerals as payment for their investment (Trump claims this is $300 billion), as to whether or not they are 500 feet under the ground is immaterial. How to deliver them is Zelensky's problem. No Return On Investment, no aid, case closed.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 13 2025 16:35 utc | 22
=================
Which US politician spoke of the minerals in the ground in the Ukraine as though the US has claim on them and a right to them?
McConnell? Graham? (I can't keep these droopy-jowled graybeards apart).
Strongly implying that the US war was driven by greed for these. And certainly the Ukraine has a locus of grift for US politicians must have encouraged them in this thinking. Trump can frame the whole disaster as Biden's war and try to claw back some of the dough . . . But it's probably sunk costs. And MIC contractors have done well out of it. So just walk away.
Posted by: Jane | Feb 13 2025 16:45 utc | 28
Excellent,
It didn't take b long to see through Hegseths bullshit.
It was obvious he mentioned Russia as an authoritarian threat 7 times, Ukrainian security guarentees 9 times. Russian security guarentee 0 times. Whilst pivoting towards China.
Meanwhile others stupidly, actually believed NATO was crying in its soup and couldn't afford it. Which is fake news and a complete fiction. As a explained in detail on the other thread.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 13 2025 16:46 utc | 29
- The problem for Europe is that it's dependent on both the US and Russia.
Posted by: WMG | Feb 13 2025 16:48 utc | 30
The US wants nothing from Russia or Ukraine. It was a stupid war that was not in the interest of the US or anyone else. To the extent Trump can say, “sorry”, he will. But he will end it or wash his hands of it.
I
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 16:52 utc | 31
Jane | Feb 13 2025 16:45 utc | 28 and others--
The legislation for aiding Ukraine never mentioned that aid as being a loan--it was direct aid to the chosen proxies standing in for US forces. I do recall some discussion of lend-lease during 2024 when funding became an issue. Trump's term, "investment," isn't aid or loan but is also lost if there's no return to be had--the company invested in goes bankrupt. Plus, a high percentage of those grants/investments went to the US MIC sector, which is where reimbursement ought to be sought.
Absolutely zero chance of Russia accepting Hegseths pipe dream he sold to Europe yesterday. One of continuing Western dominance.
None, unless the Russians have suddenly adopted a complete capitulation stance and reinvented Yoga. Which is very, very, very unlikely.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 13 2025 16:55 utc | 33
In the meantime, this just happened to Kolomoisky, Poreshenko and about 6 other CIA puppets.
@Posted by: Skeletor | Feb 13 2025 16:28 utc | 16
From your linked article: "Kolomoisky is in pre-trial detention"
And isn't that the greatest of news!
Kolomoisky is the oligarch that made Zelensky.
And he bought the presidency for Zelensky.
Haaretz had an article about Kolomoisky in 2014 that is well worth the read.
https://archive.ph/ELH8r
Also in 2014,
here is an article that beat censorship and flew through the cracks of the Mockingbird Cage in 2014.
Wouldn't happen today.
It is from Newsweek of all places.
Newsweek is a synonym for Mockingbird Press.
"Ukrainian Nationalist Volunteers Committing 'ISIS-Style' War Crimes"
By Damien Sharkov On 9/10/14 at 12:36 PM EDT
[the author Damien Sharkov seems to be struggling for work these days]
https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrainian-nationalist-volunteers-grows-269604
Posted by: librul | Feb 13 2025 17:02 utc | 34
Now you have the EU spokesperson saying they won’t abide by any agreement between the US and Russia. Okay, sweetie, you can come to the meeting but you have to fetch coffee for everyone.
Europe is so unhinged and delusional about this. Trump is going to end up changing US nuclear doctrine so that a nuclear attack on Europe is not considered one on the US. The insane asylum governments of France and Britain need to understand that we will let Russia nuke all the capitals of Europe without lifting a finger. Otherwise, I’m afraid they’re going to lob some nukes towards Russia.
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 17:02 utc | 35
@ karlof1 | Feb 13 2025 16:40 utc | 25
re: Lavrov's answer to a Q about the call is muy importante
A day late and a dollar short, IMO.
Unfortunately Blinken's much-repeated phrase -- unprovoked Russian invasion -- was not countered well at the time by the claimed Russian political intrusions (snark alert) via western media, speaking of Minsk-2 with UN support etc.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2025 17:02 utc | 36
The two Presidents are working to such different constraints that it's difficult to see how they can agree on a useful peace settlement.
For President Trump it's important that he does not incur the reproach of being "the President who lost Ukraine." That's nonsense, my view. He's not in a position where he can make much difference to how the Ukrainian war gets resolved. But nonsense or not, that reproach is a real electoral constraint to which he must work.
He may not be able to take the Europeans along with him on matters such as removing sanctions, or territorial concessions.
It may be there's a limit to the pressure Trump can put on the Kiev administration to agree to territorial concessions. Kuleba, still influential and representing the more extremist ultras, states that if such concessions are agreed Zelensky's physical survival is at risk as well as his political survival. As far as such as Azov are concerned the threats to Zelensky's life we saw made during the Zolote incident are still real threats. Even if we regard Zelensky as a puppet of the West, my view since he was elected, those threats limit the degree to which he can accept instructions from the West. He and his family are not going to want to have to rely on heavy security protection from angry ultras for the rest of their lives.
There is still resistance in Congress, to an extent within Trump's party, to any settlement in Ukraine that looks like a Russian victory.
Those are the constraints on Trump. The constraints on the Russians are equally severe.
There are the security demands the Russians set out in the late 2021 draft treaties. These are very far reaching. The Russians still regard those security demands as central to any agreed peace settlement with the West though the West still regards those demands as impossible.
Then, the "demilitarisation and denazification" conditions set out by Putin at the start of the SMO and repeated at intervals since. The West thinks that's all nonsense and PR but the Russians don't. If Putin fails on that, having insisted on it so forcefully, his entire administration loses credibility. Putin's poll ratings would drop like a stone if, for example, the Bandera monuments in Ukraine remained standing. "Demilitarisation and denazification" is not something, therefore, that's up for discussion. Not for the Russians. Not for us either - most in the West believe there are no neo-Nazis in Ukraine to be denazified.
Then there's the Istanbul agreement. Now it's Istanbul plus and Lavrov's said that that has to be at least the starting point for a settlement.
Then there are the conditions set out by Putin in the speech to the Foreign Office officials mid 2024 and confirmed by Lavrov in the Newsweek interview. There are territorial conditions there and, most importantly, the condition that all sanctions be lifted.
Put all that together and we see that the Russians are insisting on a formidable set of conditions before a peace can be negotiated. Nebenzia and others have recently restated those conditions. Kellog or Walz are not being realistic if they think they can steamroller past those conditions.
The talk of "carrot and stick" is therefore PR solely for Western consumption. It's talk that irritates rather than conciliates the Russians. As for the stick, further arms deliveries to Ukraine cannot change the military position any more than the previous ones did and heavier sanctions, could they be enforced, would hurt the West more than the Russians. In both regards there's still a serious mismatch, as there has been since '22, between the harm we most of us believe we can do to the Russians and the harm we can actually do.
On top of all that the Russians have said there have to be a whole lot of preliminary discussions to lay out the basis for talks before any serious talks between principals can take place.
Of course the Russians could be bluffing. Asking for a lot but prepared to take a little. I don't think they are, not from hearing what Nebenzia and quite a few others have been saying. I believe the RF Security Council has considered all these conditions carefully and will stay firm on them. There's not a lot of room for give on the Russian side.
Trump's a most unusual politician and he might be able to chart a course that would enable him to come up with a settlement that could work to both sets of constraints. I still hope he could but in reality there's little sign of that happening. It is not merely an academic question, how the contest in Ukraine will be resolved. While all the talking's going on some two thousand people a day are being killed or seriously injured. That's a lot of families, Ukrainian and Russian and quite a few in the West now, I think, whose future will be irreparably altered for the worse. But if the American politicians can't concede much because of the constraints on them, and the Russians can't because of the constraints on them, that's how it's going to be until the final collapse.
So all this talk of negotiation is so much hot air. The real questions will be the questions that have been staring us in the face since February 2022. I'd identify the two most important:-.
Remnant Ukraine. The Russians do not wish to occupy it. But they cannot leave it as a base from which the West can mount further attempts at destabilisation. I've seen no solution to that dilemma propounded on "b's" site nor anywhere else. But the Russians are going to have to solve it somehow so we can only wait to see what their solution is.
Counter-sanctions. The European politicians will take us into Cold War II. That means more missiles that could be nuclear sited close to Russia, threats to Kaliningrad or to the Baltic Russians, more military manoeuvres on the borders of the RF, further attempts to destabilise countries on the periphery of the RF. Counter-sanctions - cutting Russian supplies to Europe - will reduce Europe's ability to pursue such measures. That still doesn't seem to be a possibility the European politicians are worried about. I believe they should be.
Posted by: English Outsider | Feb 13 2025 17:02 utc | 37
Originally submitted to a dead thread. Re-submitting, however, gave me the chance to correct the spelling.
Posted by: English Outsider | Feb 13 2025 17:04 utc | 38
I would certainly hope so. Now, will you US-Americans show us your sincerity and remove all of your troops away from Germany, and from Europe? We don't want you here.
Posted by: jure | Feb 13 2025 16:06 utc
__________________________________________________________________
Only too pleased to do. Of course, they’ll be bringing back your factories with them.
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 16:24 utc | 11
You're not wrong about everything, Cullen. But give this retarded nationalism a rest! You talk like you and every American Joe 6 pack will be benefiting from the policies of billionaire Zionazi Trump and his gang of oligarchs. As Trump might say, Sad.
I am with the American wage slaves. I'm patriotic for them. But it's just basic, basic knowledge that the US government works chronically against their interest. Unless youre a billionaire, you might be suffering from a serious class identity crisis or as they used to say "false class consciousness".
And nobody here is rooting for the European Imperialists! That those nutless idiots are getting shafted, just pleases everyone here. Maybe take that attitude to the EU or the next Bilderburger meeting.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 13 2025 17:10 utc | 39
US wants money or minerals as payment for their investment.
Why ?
Because the Federal reserve pays for stuff like a household?
Dream on .....
It was ALL paid for by spending the money from thin air. It will ALL return back to source when collected as taxes. Then they will simply shred it.
There is not a cent to be paid back.
Money keystroked into existence - Money collected as taxes from that spending = 0
" EVENTUALLY " each and every time.
The $'s ALWAYS return back to Source and where they were issued - period.
What Trump is attempting to do is pull a fast one. Regardless if most of the money went to American companies or not.
What Trump is saying is he wants the minerals that they would have taken it they hadn't lost this war. Using the bullshit fairy tale that America needs those $'s or else.
America will get every $ back as it returns to source to be shredded. America doesn't need $'s. It is the MONOPOLY issuer of $'s and it ISSUES $'s at will. Keystrokes them into existence.
Russia to tell him to fuck off !
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 13 2025 17:11 utc | 40
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 16:24 utc | 11Only too pleased to do. Of course, they’ll be bringing back your factories with them.
Lol! Well, all those years of protection have to paid somehow.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 13 2025 17:11 utc | 41
I just finished watching the latest Nima/Alex Krainer and Alex thinks that this split between the US and Europe is really focused on the UK because of its still existent imperialism......he made the point that there are lots that believe easily that Occupied Palestine rules the US but can't fathom that the UK might be behind the curtain somewhere.
I agree and wonder if the Trump team is out to trash private finance or just the UK version of it?....they want to be the king of the private hill with real old money like Pope Frank, King Chuck and friends.
The shit show continues until it doesn't and there are encouraging signs, IMO.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 13 2025 17:12 utc | 42
Trump has no electoral constraints. The 77 million who voted for him voted expressly to end the war. Far from being concerned about “losing” Ukraine, they are resentful and pissed at the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians were demanding beggars. Most Trump
voters will take pleasure in seeing those idiots go down. They watched with rage as a criminal regime on the way out the door sent tens of billions of dollars to a bunch of mouthy beggars while shortchanging hurricane victims in North Carolina. I mean, for fricksake Zelensky came to the US before the election and made what amounted to a campaign appearance with prominent Democrats in Pennsylvania…an important swing state.
Zelensky is roundly hated by Trump voters. We would love to see him on trial in Moscow…or worse.
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 17:14 utc | 43
Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 13 2025 16:54 utc | 32
The legislation for aiding Ukraine never mentioned that aid as being a loan
Well, there is new management now and it turns out the aid has to be reimbursed.
Plus, a high percentage of those grants/investments went to the US MIC sector, which is where reimbursement ought to be sought.
Oh come'n, they bought American weapons with American money, ukrops need to either return the weapons or pay up with their own resouces. Plus, fucking ukrops stole all they could. Ukraine has a big debt with the American taxpayer.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 13 2025 17:23 utc | 45
"Russia to tell him to fuck off
Posted by: Sunny | Feb 13 2025 17:11 utc | 40
Thanks, Sunny, being the best contra indicator your complete pessissm provides us with the knowledge now that Peace is On the Way!!!
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 17:14 utc | 43Zelensky is roundly hated by Trump voters. We would love to see him on trial in Moscow…or worse.
Trial in the Donbas. I think they have the death penalty.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 13 2025 17:26 utc | 47
DOD
Hegseth Calls on NATO Allies to Lead Europe's Security, Rules Out Support for Ukraine Membership
. . . "As the United States prioritizes its attention to these threats, European allies must lead from the front," Hegseth said. "We ask each of your countries to step up on fulfilling the commitments that you have made, and we challenge your countries — and your citizens — to double down and re-commit yourselves not only to Ukraine's immediate security needs but to Europe's long-term defense and deterrence goals," he continued. . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2025 17:28 utc | 48
@ Abenobarbus
I am a nationalist, but the kind you should like. I simply want to be left alone.
You pontificate endlessly about conditions in America and most of you have never been there. You all sound like a bunch of nerdy 8th graders who had to read the Communist Manifesto for class and now you don’t leave the house without your Che shirt. You decry everything American yet you believe every single word the CIA controlled world media establishment tells you about Donald Trump.
Stop watching the BBC and CNN International. Plan a month long vacation. Travel to the US, rent a car, and travel around flyover country and talk to people. Americans will talk you out of the blue. They’ll tell you what they think. And they’ll be very friendly. Then you can stop all this nonsense about “wage slaves” and everything else. You might have a better idea of the true revolution that is occurring in US politics right now.
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 17:28 utc | 49
What if defending Ukraine from Putin aggression is their interests? How will this website react if Europeans rally behind this interest instead of following Trump's lead of being Putin's Petain/Quisling?
Posted by: TopaInkaYupanqui | Feb 13 2025 16:17 utc | 6
_______
Oh lookie. Inka the Bronyboy is back.
But to answer his question: If Europe wants to continue its war against Russia in the absence if US support, I’ll be making lots of popcorn!
Posted by: malenkov | Feb 13 2025 17:31 utc | 50
Now that USAID can no longer fund Hermes handbags and Lamborghini’s, I expect the denatsification of Ukraine to happen more quickly.
Posted by: Deniz 152 | Feb 13 2025 17:31 utc | 51
The US wants nothing from Russia or Ukraine. It was a stupid war that was not in the interest of the US or anyone else...
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 16:52 utc | 31
But it was in the interests of the US and the EU. They have planned for years to break up Russia into smaller, weaker states so that they cannot be challenged when they pillage Russia's resources. They thought that using Ukraine as a military proxy would destabilize Putin's power and the "happy days" of the 90s under Yeltsin would return, where the West could rob and rape Russia at will. But that plan failed and hopefully Trump has come to the conclusion that no amount of money invested into Ukraine will bring this about.
Posted by: Victor Scarpia | Feb 13 2025 17:32 utc | 52
b: "What is necessary to conclude the war is a long lasting indivisible European security structure in which every major country can feel save and secure."
In the era of asymmetric and hybrid warfare, indivisible security as it pertains to military actions is only one component. Decades of actions in the information space by the EU, NATO and US were essential to cultivating anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine. Then there was the coup and subsequent election interference. These types of actions continue in Georgia, Serbia, Hungary and Romania. They will no doubt be accelerated against AfD in Germany.
Then there are the weapons of sanctions, tariffs, currency manipulation, IMF loans, all used in bribery and extortion. Industrial sabotage was unleashed with the NordStream bombing. Then terrorism against civilians.
It would be naive of Russia to agree to some form of a military truce/freeze, but still allow the asymmetric warfare spheres, where it is at a disadvantage, to continue to operate unimpeded.
Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Feb 13 2025 17:38 utc | 53
You pontificate endlessly about conditions in America and most of you have never been there.
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 17:28 utc | 49
######
Hey Clown, Ahenobarbus is an American.
Your asshole country interferes all over the world, so people outside of America are going to comment. This site is run by a German. If you can't handle criticism, GTFO until America has no foreign bases.
Just because you haven't seen the world doesn't mean the world hasn't seen you.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 13 2025 17:38 utc | 54
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 17:28 utc | 49
Bro, did you read my comments or just do your knee jerk anti Dem screed? This is what I'm talking about. Most here despise the Dems! Its like you don't know where you're at. Listen a little before you talk, son.
I don't disagree with everything you say on the small scale, but in terms of the forest view, you're missing some huge issues.
I'm always with the American working class. You can keep your allegiance to masta billionaire zio-oligarch.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 13 2025 17:42 utc | 55
@Victor Scarpia
No, it wasn’t in the interest of America and “America” didn’t scheme to break up Russia. A relatively small cabal made up primarily of members of a certain tribe with ancient animosity for Russia and Europe, gained an inordinate amount of influence and control in the US and then engaged in criminal actions to the harm of all.
That cabal, was rejected by the voters and throw out. Now, in a way never seen becore in the US, their corruption is being laid bare and displayed for all to see.
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 17:43 utc | 56
So, moves are being made against Poroshenko, Kolomoisky and Medvedchuk according to the Kyiv Post. Gennadiy Bogolyubov and Kostyantyn Zhevago too. Could this have anything to do with "mineral rights" in the Carpathians near the border of Hungary? What a great place for a real estate development deal! Or areas outside of what may be ceded like Poltava? The fights for the rights to land always happen long before the railroad announces where the tracks will be laid.
Posted by: Frithguild | Feb 13 2025 17:45 utc | 57
Posted by: Victor Scarpia | Feb 13 2025 17:32 utc | 52They have planned for years to break up Russia into smaller, weaker states so that they cannot be challenged when they pillage Russia's resources.
The idea that the war was planned by the West is contradicted by the fact that when the invasion happened, the USA+EU didn't know what to do, being so lost that they even offered to move the Ukrainian government to London, giving away the whole of Ukraine to Russia. American liberals and their euro poodles simply improvised, they are that much incompetent.
On the other hand the main culprit for the start of this war and all that happened are ... the fucking Ukrainians, their corrupt leadership and the imbecilic population.
What the fuck did they expect when antagonizing in such brutal and stupid manner their main business partner and great power with which they shared a long border? It's like Mexico going all in against America. Imbeciles.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 13 2025 17:50 utc | 58
By accepting the negootiations with Trump so fast, Putin made a huge strategic mistake.
Posted by: Lenox | Feb 13 2025 17:51 utc | 59
Now that USAID can no longer fund Hermes handbags and Lamborghini’s, I expect the denatsification of Ukraine to happen more quickly.Posted by: Deniz 152 | Feb 13 2025 17:31 utc | 51
Ukraine, being a core project of the deep state, will get dismantled the same way a lot of deep state operatives are dismantled in US. USAID (and NED, for that matter) were a core part of practicing and funding mass social delusion, fomenting Russophobia, militarization and bribing Ukrainian officials and politicians, and a key factor in unlimited mobilization in Ukraine.
Remove NED, USAID and weaken deep state, similarly will revert Ukraine. It will cause chaos and collapse in Ukrainian political spheres as we are already seeing.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 13 2025 17:53 utc | 60
I don’t mind criticism of American policies. As I said, I hate the Yankee empire more than you and my family has suffered from it more than yours. Just be more informed. You have a complete cognitive disconnect. You blame America for everything, not completely unjustly, I might add, yet you have a visceral dislike for the guy trying to change course because you’ve been spoon fed propaganda by the same people you claim to hate.
I think guys like you would simply rather dislike America and Americans than actually see it change to your benefit.
Posted by: @ LoveDonbass | Feb 13 2025 17:53 utc | 61
Posted by: @ LoveDonbass | Feb 13 2025 17:53 utc | 61
#######
I did not make this post.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 13 2025 17:57 utc | 62
Just because you haven't seen the world doesn't mean the world hasn't seen you.
_____________________________________
I almost missed this. More of your anti-American assumptions. Been to Europe half a dozen times at least. Spent several months in Slovakia in the 90s when it was a real shit hole just emerging from communism. Am pretty well travelled.
Posted by: @ LoveDonbass | Feb 13 2025 17:59 utc | 63
By accepting the negootiations with Trump so fast, Putin made a huge strategic mistake.
Posted by: Lenox | Feb 13 2025 17:51 utc | 59
Since when has accepting a call "accepting negootiations"?
Lavrov: I was struck by the fact that now the whole world has fallen into a kind of "stupor" and considers the telephone conversation and the announcement of it as something out of the ordinary.
Posted by: frithguild | Feb 13 2025 17:59 utc | 64
The US is done with Europe. lol Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 13 2025 16:02 utc | 2I would certainly hope so. Now, will you US-Americans show us your sincerity and remove all of your troops away from Germany, and from Europe? We don't want you here.
Posted by: jure | Feb 13 2025 16:06 utc | 4
I was at a cocktail party with friends in Germany in 1986 (I lived there many years) and many of my friends expressed the wish that the US remove its troops from Germany. At that time, as now, almost every American would agree with this. After the Gulf War many US troops were withdrawn, but why not all? It was always the neocons in the US and the governments in Germany that didn't want this. Why? The economy in Germany benefited from this. There was never a military reason - it has always been the German government wanting the benefits to the German economy.
After all these years, I remember making the point at that cocktail party that the German government only had to ask the US to remove troops from Germany and we would gladly do so. Not a single German at the cocktail party could remember a time when the German government asked the US to do this. The German government still hasn't made this request, and now Donald Trump will do this against the will of the German government.
The problem is your government. Vote AfD and this can finally be done.
Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Feb 13 2025 18:01 utc | 65
Zelensky is in panic. He is now saying if Ukraine is defeated, American soldiers will die.
Insider report (Legitimny/Rezident_UA) from Zelensky's office also say that even the EU countries are distancing themselves from Ukraine, Zelensky and their requests, despite the loud public rhetoric implying otherwise.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 13 2025 18:01 utc | 66
Asia Times
What follows are the five main issues that will shape Russian-US peace talks on Ukraine between their leaders, diplomats and whichever of their experts might be invited to participate in this via complementary Track II talks.
>The most immediate issue that must be resolved is where the new Russian-Ukrainian border will fall. Hegseth’s point about Ukraine’s inability to restore its pre-2014 border hints that Trump could coerce Zelensky into withdrawing from at least all of Donbas, which is at the center of the territorial dimension of their conflict, though it’s possible that his forces might fall back as far as Zaporizhzhia city.
>The next issue to address after the above are the terms of the DMZ along their interim border and the role of the peacekeepers who’d then likely deploy there to monitor it. Hegseth’s declaration that the US will not extend Article 5 guarantees to EU forces there could deter them from playing a major role, which Russia would have to authorize via a UNSC Resolution in any case per Permanent Representative Vasily Nebenzia otherwise they’ll be legitimate targets.
>Two of Russia’s main goals in its “special operation” are to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine, which it initially sought to do by militarily coercing Ukraine into this per the terms established in spring 2022’s draft peace treaty, though that didn’t succeed due to the UK and Poland.
>Russia has repeatedly demanded the lifting of all Western sanctions, but the argument can be made that “deal-master” Trump wouldn’t ever agree to do this all at once, instead preferring to draft a plan for phased sanctions relief as a reward for Russia’s compliance with a ceasefire, armistice or peace treaty.
>Russia envisaged creating a new European security architecture through mutual agreements with the US and NATO in December 2021 per the security guarantee requests that it shared with them at the time. . . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2025 18:02 utc | 67
Rostislav Ischenko has published the relevant details of the US proposal.
"https://cont.ws/@ishchenko/2980821">Link to Ischenko's essay
Not one item in Trump's proposal holds any interest for Russia. The essay is in Russian of course, and a bit long, so here are the main points:
"Washington has declared really serious concessions:
• Legal recognition of new territories by Russia;
• Zelensky's replacement as president with a more acceptable figure for Russia.
The Americans pretend that this is enough [and] outlined a position that they will defend.:
• Refusal to admit Ukraine to NATO),... but in return for no demilitarization of Kiev, the United States plans to rearm [Kiev] ...
• No denazification; you can sacrifice individual figures ... but the essence of the regime should remain the same. As a consolation prize, Moscow will be promised that [Kiev] will no longer infringe on the already almost destroyed UOC [Ukrainian Orthodox Church] nor persecute people for using the Russian language in public;
• Compensation to America for the funds spent on Ukraine (the request position is 500 billion, but bargaining is possible) [paid for with] Ukrainian minerals. Since Kiev will never be able to give away such an amount, neither rare earths, nor agricultural land, nor factories, nor, moreover, money, in fact, Trump demands that Russia buy out Ukraine from the United States, but not all of Ukraine, just part of it.
• The issues of lifting sanctions and unblocking Russian assets remain in limbo and will be used during the negotiations to bargain.
As you can see, Washington's position has undergone only cosmetic changes, which at first seemed like significant concessions, but in fact were not guaranteed by anything. Even if the United States can convince Zelensky to resign and open the door to presidential elections, all preliminary agreements will be signed by a certain acting president, whose powers will be written out by a parliament of dubious legitimacy. In other words, Kiev will be able to challenge the legal clearance of the new Russian territories at any time in the future."
To summarize, Ischenko notes that it's not enough to amend the Ukrainian constitution which requires the votes of now-Russian citizens, so an entirely new constitution would be needed. In all this would take 12 to 18 months, if the process managed to stay on track.
I see that the current US proposals are DOA, and Washington needs a major reset of its unrealistic expectations before real negotiations could start. The only reason to have such hope is that Trump's MAGA project is also DOA if he doesn't stop the Ukraine war. Until Trump makes a hard decision - if he ever does - it's just more death and destruction. Trump will pose as a peacemaker while Russia continues, as always, to depend on their two best friends, the Army and the Navy, and Ukrainian draftees will continue to die in horrific numbers. My guess is Trump will end up walking away from the mess and blaming it all on Biden. If that's true, then the sooner Trump walks away and says, Oh, look! There's a squirrel - in Greenland!" the better for everyone.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Feb 13 2025 18:03 utc | 68
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 13 2025 18:01 utc | 66
#########
Zelensky is nervous, the war ends and the Nazis will kill him. I imagine that outcome will be satisfactory for Putin.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 13 2025 18:05 utc | 69
It's funny to see that some pathetic minds here still talk about Europe as if it were the great world power, as if they could defeat Russia, surpass the Chinese economy and disobey the US. They should accept their decline and increasing inconsequentiality. Only then will they be able to improve in the long term.
Posted by: Gabriel Moyssen | Feb 13 2025 18:08 utc | 70
It would be naive of Russia to agree to some form of a military truce/freeze, but still allow the asymmetric warfare spheres, where it is at a disadvantage, to continue to operate unimpeded.
Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Feb 13 2025 17:38 utc | 53
Amen to that. The only real thing to negotiate is the US disengagement from Ukraine, and the rest of Russia's near abroad. The fact that the US is one of the parties to negotiating an end to the war is the fundamental problem. The problem is solved by the US butting out. Not just Ukraine, but Georgia, Serbia, etc. That requires a paradigm shift- abandoning the fantasy of the US as the sole, dominant superpower- that the US, including Trump, is reluctant to undergo. Hence talk of the US maybe, just maybe leaving Europe to handle Russia by itself, as if Europe would carry on the tyrant's policy without any of its support. Laughable. Trump wants to get out of this mess without abandoning the neoliberal policies that got us into it, or look like it is admitting that they were wrong to begin with. I don't see this war ending until Ukraine's government and military collapses. Of course, Putin is not going to invade Europe if and when that happens. That's just EU fearmongering. But a collapse of Ukraine will induce a number of nations to look for better relations, and trade, with Russia. The real fear of the West is that countries like Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Georgia will conclude that it's more in their interests to have good relations with Russia than the US. The fantasy of the US as the essential nation dies hard.
Posted by: Mike R | Feb 13 2025 18:08 utc | 71
Swiss born Pascal Lottaz interviews a Russian speaking Latvian. Loaded with info, history and insight.
"What is happening in the three small Baltic nations bordering Russia? Why is the electricity grid being decoupled and how did the countries change from a "bridge to the east" to a failed outpost of the EU and a potential next flashpoint for war with Russia?
Today I'm talking to Romans Sklenniks, a former journalist in Latvia who, together with a political activist and former politician from Lithuania is running a discussion platform opposite to the mainstream media in the baltic states. Together we want to talk about media and the political situation in the Baltics."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a_sLwG7mKc
Posted by: migueljose | Feb 13 2025 18:09 utc | 72
Varoufakis on Trump's economic grand strategy:
https://unherd.com/2025/02/why-trumps-tariffs-are-a-masterplan/
Posted by: Crumch | Feb 13 2025 18:10 utc | 73
Nope, being in good terms with Russia and China is in our best interests here in Europe. Eurasia is a much better future for us than than the Atlantic partnership. I truly hope the Yanks would make good of the threat of leaving us alone.Posted by: jure | Feb 13 2025 16:23 utc | 10
Most intelligent people would agree that it's in Germany's best interest to buy Russian gas and sell German products to Russia. It's not clear what Germany has to offer to China though, since China manufactures almost everything Germany manufactures, albeit at sometimes lower quality than Germany but usually at lower price.
Most people would also agree that Germany should trade with the US as well as Russia.
The people who don't agree are neocons in the US. That's why they funded the destruction of Nordstream, which has deindustrialized Germany (along with the retarded Greens who turned off perfectly good nuclear power plants). While AI is causing the resurgance of nuclear power, Germany is importing illiterate and violent people from the middle east - thanks to that semi-moron Angela Merkel.
Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Feb 13 2025 18:10 utc | 75
Posted by: JessDTruth | Feb 13 2025 18:03 utc | 68
##########
One of Trump's tactics (a time honored one) is to make unrealistic demands to set the frame.
This is American gall against Russian stoicism.
That looks like Trump is trying "sell" to Congress, the DoD, the MIC, and Europe that he tried to drive a hard bargain as the Russians finish up the SMO.
Trump got his win. Fogel's release.
Russia's generosity has limits.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 13 2025 18:11 utc | 76
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 13 2025 17:53 utc | 60
"Remove NED, USAID and weaken deep state, similarly will revert Ukraine. It will cause chaos and collapse in Ukrainian political spheres as we are already seeing."
What do you know, turns out NED funding has been cut off in the last few days and they're pretty much closing up shop - laying off people here and there, telling their lackeys the world over the free handouts, bribes and propaganda money are over.
Trump and his gang are screwing up big time with Palestine, as expected and as the previous administration did, but at least there are a few good news on some fronts, for a change.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Feb 13 2025 18:13 utc | 77
Europe's big terror.
It's not going to admit it though.
Is betrayed Ukrainians running wreck through Europe.
Thems the consequences of getting involved in a conflict that they went all in on.
Posted by: jpc | Feb 13 2025 18:16 utc | 78
Never a fan of her but credit where is due must be granted on this occasion to Ursula Von der Leyen; after all is a very smart move of her -- she knows the US of A has lost this proxy war -- a humiliating defeat -- as she holds classified information behind the terrorist attack on the NS1 and NS2. Would she be able to turn the tables around and force the hands on the gringos and their middle eastern allies to compromise 'a bit' at the negotiating table?
Posted by: pepe | Feb 13 2025 18:17 utc | 79
US wants money or minerals as payment for their investment (Trump claims this is $300 billion), as to whether or not they are 500 feet under the ground is immaterial. How to deliver them is Zelensky's problem. No Return On Investment, no aid, case closed.Posted by: unimperator | Feb 13 2025 16:35 utc | 22
It's quite possible that Trump fully understands that these minerals aren't the goal - the goal is most likely to have an excuse for stopping funding Ukraine (instead of the real reason, which is to stop the war). Trumps main enemies are the neocons in the Senate who want the war to continue so the military-industrial complex can give them kickbacks. He's gotten his main cabinet members confirmed by the Senate as of today, so now the gloves come off.
The number one search term on search engines in the Washington, DC area right now is "criminal defense attorney" (I'm not joking). People understand that the grift will become known and are scared.
Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Feb 13 2025 18:18 utc | 80
Australia would do well to heed the last injunction too. We gave $800M to the US for nothing. Zip. Bubkis. Actually, not true. It was our monthly protection payment. Trump might not impose tariffs on us. It depends on how he's feeling.
But we have aces in our hand, perhaps even Trump cards. We should use them.
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 13 2025 18:20 utc | 81
The EU war hawks/antirussians could continue ruling over the continent, the media support the theme. Feed their arms industry from tax payer money, become price world record holders with increasingly poor citizens.
While the U.S. makes good business with RU.
Posted by: Tapio | Feb 13 2025 18:20 utc | 82
What if defending Ukraine from Putin aggression is their interests? How will this website react if Europeans rally behind this interest instead of following Trump's lead of being Putin's Petain/Quisling?
Posted by: TopaInkaYupanqui | Feb 13 2025 16:17 utc | 6
————————-
Well that’s exactly what EU is doing since three years.
What makes you believe they could do more once the US gets out of the mess?
Posted by: scc | Feb 13 2025 18:22 utc | 83
One other unmentioned issue of large consequence is Trump's insistence that all aid provided to Ukraine be repaid, similar to what Wilson demanded at the end of WW1, although that support was actual loans. As far as I'm aware, much of that was indeed treated as aid, not as loans, which was a key determiner as to the depth of Outlaw US Empire involvement in the war--that it was waging an undeclared war against Russia, which IMO is how Trump is being forced to approach negotiations as the losing side because it is.Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 13 2025 16:40 utc | 25
More likely, Trump is just looking for an excuse not to continue giving money to Ukraine - i.e. "They refuse to pay us back, so I'm not giving them any more money."
People make a mistake thinking Trump's dumb - he's quite clever. Saying "I want to pressure Ukraine to end the war by not giving them money." is less effective and can be criticized more by his opponents than the excuse he's using.
Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Feb 13 2025 18:25 utc | 84
Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Feb 13 2025 18:25 utc | 84
##########
People forget that Trump is transactional in ways most people are not.
Giving anything for nothing is what losers do. Trump doesn't like to lose.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 13 2025 18:34 utc | 85
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 13 2025 18:05 utc | 69
I think Zelensky is very nervous. From what Skeletor posted above -
Zelensky Slaps Lifetime Sanctions on Poroshenko, Kolomoisky, Medvedchuk
That seems like a bad decision.
Posted by: paddy | Feb 13 2025 16:40 utc | 27
War crime trials for all Banderaists, with appropriate hangings.
I hope they add gibbeting, just to make sure everyone understands.
Posted by: lex talionis | Feb 13 2025 18:35 utc | 86
Stars and Stripes
Hegseth, speaking at the end of a defense ministerial meeting in Brussels, said President Donald Trump would not allow a military imbalance between the United States and Europe to continue when it comes to defending the Continent. “This administration believes deeply in alliances, but make no mistake, President Trump will not allow anyone to turn Uncle Sam into Uncle Sucker,” Hegseth said.
“We can talk all we want about values. Values are important, but you can’t shoot values,” he said. “There is no replacement for hard power.” Across-the-board defense spending increases are needed, given “an urgent, real threat to the Continent” from Russia, he said. . .here
Europe is threatened by . . .aggressive Russia, of course, the story goes. You know, that new friend of the US. . .s/
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 13 2025 18:38 utc | 87
Posted by: Chris N/ Feb 13 2025: 16:05 utc/3
Contrary to national mythology Pierre was a US vassal like Trudeau fils.
Trudeau-Nixon phonecall
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/audio/1.421861
Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 13 2025 18:40 utc | 88
Is there a land-based version of a drone? In other words, a boots-on-the-ground robot that could be used instead of a soldier? Now that drones are so common, how much longer before we're fighting totally mechanized wars?
If I was a young Ukrainian or Russian man I'd be pushing for mechanization ASAP! Much better to watch my robot replacement get blown up than to volunteer myself for the same fate for no good reason.
Posted by: Mark Mosby | Feb 13 2025 18:40 utc | 89
The UK and EU havent got the manufacturing capacity to supply military weapons in the quntity needed to fight Russia.
They'v been using old stock.
So the timing of this atlantic allience pull out by US. Is double bad timing.
It would take ten years to build up the infrastucture, then ther is the lack of highly skilled workers to manufactue the needed arms.
Nah forget it. Not posable not going to happen let alone right now.
And do we really want to see our citys in the uk turned to rubble ?
And for what ? Russia is no threat to the uk but if we make the wrong move now. Dispit all the big talk.
Well all bets are off.
To protect a comedian who plays the piano with his dick.
Pure insanity.
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 13 2025 18:45 utc | 90
@TopaInkaYupanqui | Feb 13 2025 16:17 utc | 6
What if defending Ukraine from Putin aggression is their interests? How will this website react if Europeans rally behind this interest instead of following Trump's lead of being Putin's Petain/Quisling?Quisling was a Nazi vassal. The Quislings of today are Nazi vassals too, the real Nazis are in roughly the same places as back then.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 13 2025 18:47 utc | 91
Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Feb 13 2025 18:18 utc | 80
---
You're making many good comments thankfully free of emotional TDS.
My hope is that Trump begins listing names, then offers the option of full pardons if they confess their crimes, give back their stolen gains and resign.
The alternative would be due process with the prospect of 20 year sentences upon conviction, and of course the same resulting loss of money and position.
Posted by: Markw | Feb 13 2025 18:49 utc | 92
But Europe did go for their own interest, they hoped for Ukraine joining the EU and NATO, the Black sea as a mostly European sea, Russia collapsed and into pieces, etc.. They hoped this but had no way to realise it themselves, the US was very useful. What will they do now? Just make peace and continue like they did before the war, just like they have always done. What will they do with Ukraine? They will realise that it is full of nazis, criminals and terrorist and they will close their borders and leave it up to Russia to clean out. Politics in Europe is just theatre, that the DAX went up 2% today is more telling.
Posted by: hubert | Feb 13 2025 18:51 utc | 93
The new propaganda from the western merdias is as follow: it will be remembered that Russia lost the war because Russia was not able to take Kiev in three days. And of course further lies about Butcha. They will never learn.
Posted by: Naive | Feb 13 2025 18:52 utc | 94
What we've seen from the Epstein information and since that the US has spend decades creating leaders in the west that are aligned with its propaganda, weak, and blackmailable. The US spent a lot of covert effort making sure strong leaders did not arise, and leaders like Orban are an exception.
Quite frankly, every country need to now have a "foreign agents need to be public" law, as well as revisiting who controls education and the major media. USAID controlled over 90% of Ukrainian media it was found, and that figure is probably not that far off in most western countries. The propulation was not Russophobe, but over decades was made so. It's scary how humankind can be so brainwashed by small numbers of ultra rich people.
Posted by: Matthew | Feb 13 2025 18:53 utc | 95
That looks like Trump is trying "sell" to Congress, the DoD, the MIC, and Europe that he tried to drive a hard bargain as the Russians finish up the SMO.Trump got his win. Fogel's release.
Russia's generosity has limits.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 13 2025 18:11 utc | 76
I think you understand Trump's negotiating tactics very well. I completely agree with you.
Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Feb 13 2025 18:54 utc | 96
"Well, if you behave like vassals and ignore your own interest why are you astonished when you are treated like vassals and have your own interests ignored? Grow some balls and fight for your interests. Then maybe, just maybe, other will also start to keep your interests in mind." [b.]
Nicely put b.
That said, the present Eunuchs in the EU and UK do not have neither the ability nor the inclination for such growth. Hence, all need to be replaced by those with sufficient testicular fortitude to place the interests of Europe's Citizenry first.
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 13 2025 18:54 utc | 97
Posted by: TopaInkaYupanqui | Feb 13 2025 16:17 utc | 6
Fuck off liar, the only agressor is the nazi regime of Kiev which agressed Donbass during 8 years. Russia is liberating its people from the nazis exactly like during WW2.
Posted by: Naive | Feb 13 2025 19:00 utc | 98
Russia Has Won A War Against The West:
https://www.rt.com/news/612637-what-putin-trump-call-meant/
"What the Trump-Putin call really meant."
Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 13 2025 19:00 utc | 99
The problem is your government. Vote AfD and this can finally be done.Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Feb 13 2025 18:01 utc | 65
I agree, the problem has definitely also been our successive governments and spineless "leaders". I however, as a traditional anti-imperialist socialist, will never vote for the AfD. Alice "Hitler was a communist" Weidel is a complete imbecile, and with fascists like Björn Höcke in the party, hell no.
Posted by: jure | Feb 13 2025 19:00 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Tell us what you really think b......"Grow some balls and fight for your interests. Then maybe, just maybe, other will also start to keep your interests in mind."
Thanks for the posting.
Yes, when does the last Ukrainian die for this proxy war? I still think that the Ukraine military is what/who needs to surrender.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 13 2025 16:01 utc | 1