News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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February 16, 2025
Ukraine Open Thread 2025-033
News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
Comments
Posted by: DaVinci | Feb 17 2025 11:40 utc | 193 Posted by: OnceWere | Feb 17 2025 12:08 utc | 201 My belief is that he needs both of these, plus the south (Odessa and Nikolaev Mykolayiv) plus Chernihiv and Sumy and Poltava oblasts to gain any real security against the rabid Europeans. Plus denazification and demobilization of the rump Ukraine, otherwise it will just be an interim state before a new war. Posted by: Barrel Brown | Feb 17 2025 12:10 utc | 202 Posted by: HB_Norica | Feb 17 2025 0:16 utc | 124 Posted by: Milites | Feb 17 2025 12:10 utc | 203
When the president of Estonia promices to defeat Russia on the battlefield and put her on her knees, does he mean that Estonian army would do the actual fighting? Posted by: Rutte | Feb 17 2025 12:18 utc | 204
The presentation of Zelensky’s acquiescence to US demands for resource extraction to the Russian delegation in Riyadh will be interesting. Posted by: too scents | Feb 17 2025 12:22 utc | 205 If I wasn’t American, I’d be dumbfounded that anyone believes a word Trump says. But I am so I understand that I live in the most propagandized place in all of human history where people believe that Trump cares about the price of eggs any more than Biden. (Or vice versa if you prefer.) Posted by: Lex | Feb 17 2025 12:31 utc | 206 Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Feb 17 2025 2:13 utc | 143
As any sane person knows, Starmer sending Britain’s best to Ukraine is throwing oil on the fire. Posted by: Passerby | Feb 17 2025 12:41 utc | 207 I caught the last 30 minutes of the DialogWorks livestream of Nima with Pepe Escobar, who is in the Donbas. Pepe told of 5 HIMARS that had been fired at a convent full of nuns in/near Ugladar. Posted by: NotEinstein | Feb 17 2025 12:55 utc | 208
Thanks … appreciated … so my back-of-a-fag-packet assumptions were way out … doesn’t bode well … Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Feb 17 2025 13:01 utc | 209 What’s ahead in Ukraine before April 20th (Fuehrer’s birthday): Posted by: Greg Galloway | Feb 17 2025 13:02 utc | 210 Is one of the virtual rooms in another country going to be full of the satrap natzio fascists? Eh macaroon, starmzy, Meloni..? Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 17 2025 13:04 utc | 211 Of course, Trump cannot just hand this to Russia so the fighting will continue until it is given to Russia or Russia takes it. – the format will be a 2 room configuration – Posted by: too scents | Feb 17 2025 13:22 utc | 213 “Let’s face it, a significant part of the cause for “Trump Derangement Syndrome” is the collapse of the material/economic conditions that allowed the Empire to maintain its middle class in an insulated and delusional fairy tale state of existence. The Empire’s economic decline started putting immense pressure on this pampered existence at about the same time Trump was first boosted to the Presidency by “the Deplorables”. The PMC TDS victims were the ones facing reality’s harshness unprotected for the first time. For “the Deplorables”, this was nothing new. It is unsurprising that the TDS people conflated Trump’s rise with their own decline.” Passerbuy & Satta massa Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 17 2025 13:26 utc | 215 Martyanov said Poland has sent historians to Moscow to discuss ‘historical Polish lands’. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 17 2025 13:42 utc | 216 Poland’s Tusk also outright refused any peace keeping mission into Ukraine. Probably because they are discussing the return of Lwow and Iwano-Frankovsk. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 17 2025 13:43 utc | 217 Martyanov said Poland has sent historians to Moscow to discuss ‘historical Polish lands’. Posted by: Martina | Feb 17 2025 14:15 utc | 218 Repost of English Outsider quoting Sonar22:
https://sonar21.com/jd-vance-gobsmacks-nato/ Posted by: Exile | Feb 17 2025 14:20 utc | 219 Martina@218…..I highly doubt the Poles want to be stuck with Ukrainians anymore than Palestinians want to be stuck with the Genocidal Apartheid Bastards…….you’d want that a a consolation prize? Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 17 2025 14:24 utc | 220 Would love seeing the look on the U.S. negotiating team when Lavrov informs them of rolling back NATO to 1997 members as a core principle. Posted by: Exile | Feb 17 2025 14:28 utc | 221 “Volodymyr Zelenskyy reiterated that Ukraine would not recognise any peace agreements made without its participation, as top Russian and US officials prepare to meet in Saudi Arabia for high-stakes talks on the war in Ukraine. Posted by: KingCobra | Feb 17 2025 14:30 utc | 222 216 – I doubt it, even if I did not also have doubts about Martyanov as a source. Polish travel to Russia is not normalised, and in any case I would not think it likely historians would be sent on that kind of mission. More like diplomats. Posted by: Waldorf | Feb 17 2025 14:34 utc | 223 I think the outline of a deal is becoming clear. DJT is clearly focused on the cash. And “I want my 500Bn”. And the Americans have a long history of cash for land deals. From those Manhattan Indians to Greenland and Gaza. And VVP is by all accounts a pretty legalistic sort of a chap. He’ll know that successor states inherit the debt of the predecessor ones. So it just becomes a question of how ukraine debt is apportioned, interest rates and repayment plans. Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | Feb 17 2025 14:38 utc | 224 Hmm. This is a new one. Anonymous Airbus Helicopters H135 at 2000 feet going right along the Poland Ukraine border near Lvov. Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 17 2025 14:48 utc | 225 Messed up my last comment i was out on manouvers no time to edit, sorry just noticed. Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 17 2025 14:48 utc | 226 It will end up to be a Minsk 3 in any way. Ukraine will bankrupt, and then mainly funnel EU money into US pockets while building a new army (probably mostly with recruits from all over Europe, while losing more of their own people through migration), and in 5 to 10 years everything will start all over again. Posted by: I Bomby | Feb 17 2025 14:50 utc | 227 I understand people who claim EU is just intending to send a peace-keeping army into Ukraine and wait out Trump administration, and then launch another war after 4 years. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 17 2025 14:50 utc | 228 @Posted by: Michael J | Feb 17 2025 13:21 utc | 212 Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 17 2025 14:51 utc | 229 I Bombay @ 227 Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 17 2025 15:01 utc | 230 Russia should make it clear that if england wants a secound return match (football ref) it should be played out on englands home pitch not ukraines tbis time. Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 17 2025 15:16 utc | 231 via rt crom Valdai discussion club Posted by: Jo | Feb 17 2025 15:17 utc | 232 @ Roger Boyd, §229: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 17 2025 15:25 utc | 233 @Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 17 2025 8:55 utc | 175 Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 17 2025 15:28 utc | 234 @Posted by: John Marks | Feb 17 2025 15:25 utc | 233 Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 17 2025 15:34 utc | 235 YetAnotherAnon | Feb 17 2025 14:48 utc | 225 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 17 2025 15:45 utc | 236 Posted by: Drifter | Feb 17 2025 2:41 utc | 145 Posted by: Oswald | Feb 17 2025 17:11 utc | 237 Hey Roger Boyd, I was pretty horrified at how you were singled out over at NC. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 17 2025 17:17 utc | 239 – I still had a video in which jacques baud talked about the Ukraine from april 14, 2024. Baud predicts that the Ukraine will disappear / collapse. Posted by: WMG | Feb 17 2025 17:48 utc | 240 Ukrainian drones just took out Kropotkinskaya station! There has to be a way to counter these cheap, long-range drones. Otherwise, nothing is safe. They’ve done almost as much damage to Russia’s oil industry as Russian missiles have done to Ukraine’s energy infrastructure. It’s insane. Posted by: bored | Feb 17 2025 17:58 utc | 241 Ten years ago –on this site– I read of gas fields off the coast of Crimea worth astronomical amounts of money. Might *this* be the booty the scofflaw empire is seeking (rather than the rare earth minerals)?! Posted by: Ben Trovata | Feb 17 2025 18:04 utc | 242 Ukrainian drones just took out Kropotkinskaya station! There has to be a way to counter these cheap, long-range drones. Otherwise, nothing is safe. They’ve done almost as much damage to Russia’s oil industry as Russian missiles have done to Ukraine’s energy infrastructure. It’s insane. Posted by: NoName | Feb 17 2025 19:40 utc | 243 EU was planning €700 billion military package for Ukraine. Knowing it was a sensitive issue amongst voters, it planned to announce it after German elections but Baerbock let it slip. Posted by: Ripamon | Feb 17 2025 21:35 utc | 244 @229 Posted by: GW | Feb 17 2025 21:59 utc | 245 @Milites | Feb 17 2025 12:10 utc | 203 Posted by: Clown Shoes | Feb 17 2025 22:42 utc | 246 Andrew Sarchus 62 Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Feb 17 2025 22:48 utc | 247 AFU defense stronghold and defense line NW of Velyka Novosilka is flanked. RUAF already took Novosilka. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 18 2025 0:17 utc | 248 Republicofscotland | Feb 16 2025 15:01 utc | 7 Posted by: Cynic | Feb 18 2025 0:33 utc | 249 unimperator | Feb 16 2025 15:58 utc | 18 Posted by: Cynic | Feb 18 2025 0:41 utc | 250 Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 16 2025 20:07 utc | 82 Posted by: Cynic | Feb 18 2025 1:12 utc | 251 Mommy Dear | Feb 16 2025 23:58 utc | 117 Posted by: Cynic | Feb 18 2025 1:31 utc | 252 ‘You have to shoot the bear before dividing its hide.’ Old Dutch expression. Posted by: Acco Hengst | Feb 18 2025 3:44 utc | 253 Lol. Z now with his knickers in a knot over US-RF talks without him (Ukraine) in Saudi Arabia. He says he “will not recognise any deals”. Posted by: Mommy Dear | Feb 18 2025 4:35 utc | 254 NATO E3 Sentry (Luxembourg registered) over Romanian Black Sea Coast Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 18 2025 10:19 utc | 255 USAF Rivet Joint off Kaliningrad Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 18 2025 10:22 utc | 256 The Rivet Joint is from RSF Mildenhall in the UK. Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 18 2025 10:25 utc | 257 Posted by: Clown Shoes | Feb 17 2025 22:42 utc | 246 Posted by: Milites | Feb 18 2025 10:29 utc | 258 245 – Few Poles live there now. If Poland did acquire or annex the region it would suddenly acquire a significant Ukrainian minority also. Which it might prefer not to have. For that reason I am sceptical. Maybe the Poles could round up some settlers to re-Polonise the area but Galicia is not a particularly desirable place – why would they bother, just because it was in Poland in 1939? Posted by: Waldorf | Feb 18 2025 11:09 utc | 259 254 – Zelensky is starting to remind me of Syngman Rhee. Who kept throwing hissy fits over moves to an armistice deal in Korea in 1953. The same sort of temperamental puppet. South Korea did not sign the armistice, which is why there is still technically a state of war on the peninsula. Posted by: Waldorf | Feb 18 2025 11:16 utc | 260 @ GW §245: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 18 2025 12:38 utc | 261 Happy faces all around. The ice has been broken. The Kremlin is happy that its western partners are talking with them again. Posted by: guest from franconia | Feb 18 2025 14:39 utc | 262 AFU troops are trapped in Konstaninyivka, after RUAF cut the only road out of town on its SW outskirt. Looks like the entire Ulakly-Dachne cauldron is ripe for harvesting anyway. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 18 2025 15:21 utc | 263 Posted by: guest from franconia | Feb 18 2025 14:39 utc | 262 Posted by: Milites | Feb 18 2025 16:01 utc | 264 Trump’s negotiating team are made from similar cloth and the Russians will have been watching Trump’s first weeks in office very closely, seeing if he’s a doer or a talker. Posted by: too scents | Feb 18 2025 16:27 utc | 265 Laughing together while US policy still kills our people. Posted by: Yuliana Dlugaj | Feb 18 2025 16:40 utc | 266 while US policy still kills our people. Posted by: too scents | Feb 18 2025 16:51 utc | 267 This current status quo have proven Russia isn’t capable of defeating a NATO supported state, but have also proven NATO supported state can’t defeat Russia, so it’s best for both sides to accept that and live side by side. Isolating Russia didn’t work for the last 3 years, but Russia being a bully also didn’t work, basically both sides have not choice but to normalize. Posted by: Soviet Star | Feb 18 2025 17:11 utc | 268 Posted by: too scents | Feb 18 2025 16:27 utc | 265 Posted by: Milites | Feb 18 2025 17:14 utc | 269 Posted by: Milites | Feb 18 2025 17:14 utc | 269 Posted by: pepe | Feb 18 2025 17:29 utc | 270 and that Trump needs a deal, otherwise he’ll suffer domestically. Posted by: too scents | Feb 18 2025 17:35 utc | 271 Russia finally going after Ukrainian supply routes – 2.5 years overdue Posted by: MiniMO | Feb 18 2025 19:45 utc | 272 The Kursk region. Anyone care to hazard a guess….there is this little Ukie salient in the NNW area that has been there for months. Why can’t Russia close it up? Shorten the front line. Just seems odd. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 18 2025 20:25 utc | 273 Posted by: too scents | Feb 18 2025 17:35 utc | 271 Posted by: Milites | Feb 18 2025 21:10 utc | 274
My best guess is that, at a minimum, the Russians want to capture Sumy, the Eastern side of Dnipro and Kharkov. They need a long-term stable border, amd the river makes a logical geographic division in the South … while leaving Sumy and Kharkov in hostile hands in the North is just asking for trouble next decade. Posted by: Tel | Feb 18 2025 21:48 utc | 275 Holy crap! Baffled ignorance is on full display today. Posted by: Nobody Special | Feb 18 2025 22:44 utc | 276 Not counting Crimea and the parts of Donetsk and Luhansk that had broken away before 2022, Russia controls an additional ~18,000 sqmi (roughly 2 Vermonts) and gained between 3-3.5M people (or the city of LA). Posted by: Spirit of Bad | Feb 18 2025 22:50 utc | 277 @too scents | Tue, 18 Feb 2025 16:27:00 GMT | 265
Which side has more to lose, and which side has more to gain? Posted by: James M. | Feb 18 2025 22:56 utc | 278 @Tel | Tue, 18 Feb 2025 21:48:00 GMT | 275
So in other words, the war will continue. And Trump is writing checks he simply cannot cash. Real negotiations will begin when one or the side is much more exhausted by the war effort. Posted by: James M. | Feb 18 2025 23:21 utc | 279 @Spirit of Bad | Tue, 18 Feb 2025 22:50:00 GMT | 277
So how much blood and treasure has Russia actually spent? Do tell, because there seems to be a wide discrepancy in the numbers. Posted by: James M. | Feb 18 2025 23:33 utc | 280 James M@280…..in an existential war, do you do business with the enemy….of course not. Coke, the real thing, is set to return to Russia, in an existential war? Many US companies never left Russia, would that happen in an existential war. Fighting existential wars, does one kill all the peasants and spare the Gentry? Zman’s turkey strut, his posturing, for an unelected nobody, who’s not that special, makes the Russians look weak every time they mention his name…..although they recently started pointing out the Zman is really nobody special. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 19 2025 2:22 utc | 281 @sean the leprechaun | Wed, 19 Feb 2025 02:22:00 GMT | 281
Gee, I didn’t know Coke was a Ukrainian product. Learn something new every day, eh. I’m assuming you mean Coca-cola, and not the nose candy. Posted by: James M. | Feb 19 2025 3:17 utc | 282 The American Empire is exiting bankrupt Europe -Banderas better run and hide as their granddaddy should have told them what comes next when Nazis loose… Posted by: Silverdale | Feb 19 2025 6:37 utc | 283 Zelensky Needs To Be ‘Brought To His Senses’- Lavrov Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 19 2025 7:36 utc | 284 The US suggested at the Saudi meeting that Ukraine and Russia should stop attacking each others energy facilities (Ukraine had a crack at another gas pipeline yesterday) – Lavrov said nyet. Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 19 2025 7:40 utc | 285 Russias military is extremely exhausted and has burned its best brigades. This degradation is so bad they have not been able to exploit local breakthroughs into operational breakthroughs. Posted by: Deway | Feb 19 2025 10:40 utc | 286 All this is happening to kill off the China-Russia-Iran union before it gets any stronger. Trump can’t give two fucks about Putin or Russia, he only works in interest of US alone. Posted by: KG Jedi | Feb 19 2025 10:53 utc | 287 Posted by: Nobody Special | Feb 18 2025 22:44 utc | 276 Posted by: Oswald | Feb 19 2025 11:03 utc | 288 https://www.flightradar24.com/RRR7219/392e6da5 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 19 2025 11:28 utc | 289 For good measure, know this. The Deep State plan going into the Ukraine debacle was regime change in Russia and carving up Russia into 5 or 6 NATO military districts. Then feasting on the carcass NATO would initiate a reign of terror under the guise of creating a DEI/LGBTQ+ golden age. The Russians know this. Posted by: Oswald | Feb 19 2025 11:35 utc | 290 https://www.flightradar24.com/JAKE17/392e66b6 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 19 2025 12:38 utc | 291 287 – I am a bit disturbed by it. The penny had dropped when Putin realised NATO was not agreement-capable. Now the Russians seem to think it is all friends again. Posted by: Waldorf | Feb 19 2025 14:48 utc | 292 Russia, just like the rest of the world, is chock full of slop-consuming NPCs who love iphones, Disney movies and videogames where you can romance gay men. It is not clear why the American deep state even bothered with this whole Ukraine war mess when they could’ve just waited for a couple of more years until they see a corpse of Russia float down the river. Posted by: Georgi Seliverstov | Feb 19 2025 15:22 utc | 293 Nobody Special@276…..and I’ll splain somthin to you. It’s bit shallow might be too deep for you and your followers. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 19 2025 15:38 utc | 294 @ Waldorf, §292: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 19 2025 16:13 utc | 295 @ Waldorf, §292: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 19 2025 16:17 utc | 296 @sean the leprechaun | Wed, 19 Feb 2025 15:38:00 GMT | 294
If you had learned some history you’d know that the US was in fact at war with Russia, or at least the “Bolsheviks” who were the de facto rulers of Russia at the time, during the Russian Revolution in 1918-1919. About 5,000 US troops helped the British invade northern Russia, and a couple hundred of them were killed. The very definition of a “war.” Posted by: James M. | Feb 19 2025 22:10 utc | 297 US Army helicopter off Constanta, Romania. Just gone dark and vanished from Flightradar. Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 19 2025 22:10 utc | 298 Sikorsky UH-60M Black Hawk, 16-20823 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 19 2025 22:12 utc | 299 @sean the leprechaun | Wed, 19 Feb 2025 15:38:00 GMT | 294
Not as much as they once did. They’ve lost 60% of the territory they once held. In fact, Russian troops have reached the border near Novenkoe, Ukraine. Keep in mind that the AFU continually send reinforcements into Kursk, while the Russians do not. Their focus has always been on Donetsk, where they are making considerable gains. Posted by: James M. | Feb 19 2025 22:26 utc | 300 |
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