Posted by: LongTimeObserver | Feb 16 2025 21:08 utc | 88
All that the EU needs is to stand up to the hypocrisy of both former superpowers.
Which hypocrisy from Russia, please? Contrary to western countries, Russia keeps its word and speak straight.
For Russia, any claim to sovereignty by another small neighbor, like Moldova or Georgia, is labeled “Nazi”.
Outright lie. Russia does not have any problem with other country sovereignty. The problem is when imperialists start the so-called colour revolutions. Which are always anti-Russian. In Ukraine the nazis are in power. Now show us where Russia called nazis Moldova or Georgia.
What is true in fact is that the merdias of European countries are preparing their public opinion to a war against Russia and are at the same time making every effort to bring the fascists to the power like now in the yankeeland.
But their own sovereignty is sacrosant, just because they are Mother Russia.
Bullshit again!
Same goes for the US. One day it’s about Woke ideology, another day about democracy.
Confusing plutocratic oligarchy with democracy. So common. So ignorant.
But in fact, they both are lusting imperial bloodsuckers.
Russia is defending its people which is under attack militarily and economically.
Enough. Let’s have a new, revived Europe at one pole and ancient China at the other.
The European countries are doomed by their own stupidity. Not only they started the 2WW, but they are ready to start a new one. They plundered, killed and more than once genocided people of the rest of the world. They need to go down for their more than 5 centuries long crimes. They think that they are superior, but it is only because they are their own corrupt judges. The European countries cultivated and are still cultivating their fascist ideology which is currently in full swing. Especially now in the yankeeland. Everyone should know how it will finish.

Posted by: Naive | Feb 16 2025 22:41 utc | 103

@sean the leprechaun | Sun, 16 Feb 2025 14:57:00 GMT | 5

Russia has until 4/20, apropos is some circles, to take what they want in the LDPR…..the deal will be signed in SA in April.

Well I’m glad you got that all figured out. I guess there’s no need to comment further on the SMO in Ukraine, as it will be all wrapped up in two months. All hail the God-Emperor Trump!
Of course, you wouldn’t happen to be using sarcasm? Of course not, you’d never, ever do that in any of your posts. No one, in fact, ever uses sarcasm.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 16 2025 23:04 utc | 105

RE Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Feb 16 2025 18:04 utc | 46
I agree Doc. Wasn’t talking about Jihadis in Russia via EU, was saying US is underestimating EU as they believe they got it all in hand.
Maybe they do, but, I doubt it.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 16 2025 23:11 utc | 107

Is Russia really going to agree to any kind of a deal without first gaining control of Odessa? Would it make any sense at all for them to do that, given the stated objectives of the SMO?

Posted by: D J G | Feb 16 2025 23:17 utc | 109

Breaking news
UK ‘ready’ to deploy troops in Ukraine – PM
https://www.rt.com/news/612829-uk-troops-ukraine-starmer/

Posted by: Elber | Feb 16 2025 23:37 utc | 111

So, why don’t they use this intel and bring him down?
Posted by: Eighthman | Feb 16 2025 20:54 utc | 87

I expect the US, RF and even the EU/UK would prefer a controlled demolition lest the banderites seize power with some very dangerous results.
Gratifying though it may be to see him go out like Gaddafi, nobody wants a Libya 2.0.
The first was bad enough.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Feb 16 2025 23:43 utc | 113

It is not gas and wind. Since when did the British public ever get to vote on going to war? I fear his idiotic plans.

Posted by: Kaiama | Feb 16 2025 23:50 utc | 115

The slated UK and other Euro-troops going into 404 is all about preventing any Odessa takeover by Russia. The West is probably now fully resigned to RF going to the Donbass border, and won’t bother defending those fronts, as I’m sure Putin won’t push past them. It is NOT his SMO mission. But the West will surely create A DEFENSIVE WALL to defend Odessa and any possible moves towards Transnistria via West Kherson City. After all, the French have been there for a year, no doubt preparing defences of that front (with NATO-Romanian help of course).
I’d say Putin will allow Ukraine it’s Odessa Port … but of course with no NATO anywhere in Ukraine. Has probably planned that all along. I’d say that’s a pre-agreed promise/deal to get the Donbass unimpeded by any later West retaliation.
But getting “UK” and “French” troops out of Odessa Oblast may never happen. But a favorable referendum there would confuse its destiny. Ukraine will be a bone of contention long after any ceasefire.

Posted by: Mommy Dear | Feb 16 2025 23:58 utc | 117

Last comment from me tonight…
Someone should flag up a high risk of false flag attack right now.
I just did.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 17 2025 0:01 utc | 119

I’m sure Putin won’t push past them. It is NOT his SMO mission.
Posted by: Mommy Dear | Feb 16 2025 23:58 utc | 117
And another one who did not understand the meaning of demilitarisation and denazification. Odessa is a Russian city. Same with Kharkov, Dniepropetrovsk, Nikolaiev. Period.
There is another principle called self-determination of the people.
Moreover there will not be a Minsk III. Foreign troops in Ukraine means more war.
(Btw prices of flats in Mariupol are rising and falling in Kharkov.)

Posted by: Naive | Feb 17 2025 0:08 utc | 121

He just wants the SMO goals to the Donbass borders. “That’ll do”, for the army.
Posted by: Mommy Dear | Feb 17 2025 0:06 utc | 120
Ditto Posted by: Naive | Feb 17 2025 0:08 utc | 121
Errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum.
People who pretend to know what Putins thinks are complete morons. Especially when Putin said and repeated time and again that the goals of the SMO will be fulfilled.

Posted by: Naive | Feb 17 2025 0:14 utc | 123

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Feb 17 2025 0:13 utc | 122
For Trump there is nothing like respecting the decisions taken by his predecessors. There is nothing called the continuity of the State. It is one of the reason that the yankees can never ever be trusted. The Amerindians know better.
The only rule respected by the yankees is the gangster rule. The responsibilities are always on the shoulders of others.

Posted by: Naive | Feb 17 2025 0:18 utc | 125

There was a typo in the U.K. government’s announcement regarding Ukraine; they said the U.K. is willing to put troops “on” the ground [sic].
What they meant of course was “in the ground”.

Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Feb 17 2025 0:27 utc | 127

If Trump really is the business genius he claims to be he’d just drop all the sanctions and tariffs on China / Russia then just buy the shit. Why would you invest so much capital on mining and refining lithum when you can pick up the phone and have it in your factory in under a month?
Even if you dropped environmental impact and other assorted studies and put a spade in the ground tomorrow you wouldn’t have refined lithium coming out of it for at least five years.
Battery manufacturers aren’t going to sit around for five years with their thumbs up their ass waiting for a lithium delivery. Buy hey … they’ll still have the entertainment industry.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Feb 17 2025 0:35 utc | 129

This war is criminal.
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 17 2025 0:31 utc | 128
Further, this war was possible because Trump 1 increased the sanctions against Russia and supported fully for 4 years the ukronazis with money and weapons.

Posted by: Naive | Feb 17 2025 0:47 utc | 131

In support of
”
The US is almost solely responsible for the destruction of Ukraine and the ruination of its demographic future.
So how is it that nobody has pointed out to Trump that reparations should flow from the USA to Ukraine and not in the other direction.
Trump wants Ukraine to pay for its own destruction. Alice in Wonderland
Posted by: CitizenSmith | Feb 17 2025 0:13 utc | 122
”
I expect that Russia is quite clear on history in the past 80 years and will not fall for Trump’s team trying to characterize it differently in negotiations…..which is why I think the coming initial ones will be short and fruitless.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 17 2025 0:54 utc | 133

*** This war is criminal.
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 17 2025 0:31 utc | 128
Truer words have never been said.

Posted by: frithguild | Feb 17 2025 0:58 utc | 135

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 17 2025 0:50 utc | 132
I don’t watch him all that often, but when I watch him, he’s very, very good indeed. This was a very good monologue.

Posted by: Hunsdon | Feb 17 2025 1:10 utc | 137

This is what I don’t get from all of MoA commenter’s.
Europe is run by the CIA.
All European leaders are CIA puppets!
So when Trump excludes Europe and Ukraine from peace talkshe is excluding his own CIA, so they can’t sabotage the peace talks!

Posted by: Blind Bridge Troll | Feb 17 2025 1:51 utc | 139

Posted by: too scents | Feb 16 2025 22:17 utc | 98
Posted by: jpc | Feb 16 2025 23:17 utc | 108
First, Europe must step up further to meet the demands of its own security. So I am heading to Paris with a very clear message for our European friends. We have got to show we are truly serious about our own defence and bearing our own burden. We have talked about it for too long – and President Trump is right to demand that we get on with it.
and so on ==> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/16/sir-keir-starmer-british-troops-ukraine/
Following in the footsteps of Boris Johnson.
The general gravitas of Starmer’s utterances could be greatly enhanced had he added something like the following paragraph-
Almost 170 years ago at the Battle of Balaclava the valiant British lads of the famous Light Brigade vanquished the Russian artillery and claimed victory. We must not forget their heroic sacrifice and step up again, in partnership with like minded European allies, to confront the congenital evil of Russia-no matter under what regime-. By our actions we must honour the legacy of the Light Brigade and the general cause they fought so valiantly for.
Maybe I’ll apply for a position as speech writer for the UK government (/s)

Posted by: Barrel Brown | Feb 17 2025 2:00 utc | 141

In an essay in the Telegraph British PM Starmer has endorsed sending troops to Ukraine
Potentially putting Britons in harm’s way is a huge responsibility – but we must be ready to do our bit for Europe
Helping to guarantee Ukraine’s security is helping to guarantee the security of our country and our continent
Keir Starmer
16 February 2025 10:00pm GMT
…
and so on ==> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/02/16/sir-keir-starmer-british-troops-ukraine/
Following in the footsteps of Boris Johnson.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 16 2025 22:17 utc | 98

Starmer’s comment illustrate a completely idiotic position. First consider the facts as we know it
1) Without Nato and US support the entire European Union does not have the weaponry to fight a war, the industrial might to produce the weapons to fight a war or the military force needed.
2) The Russians has already stated that any troops on the ground without agreement will be treated as combatants.
3) 70,000 troops would probably last about 2-3 weeks on the battlefield.
Now consider the British military.
As of June 2024 the total size of the British Army is c 110,000 troops. (Source https://fullfact.org/news/size-of-armed-forces-pre-election-briefing/) If you remove non regular forces, logistics, medics, trainers, drivers, mechanics etc you’d probably be looking (potentially) at around 50-60,000 (ish) regular troops. Still not enough to fill a football stadium like Old Trafford (cap 72,00).
So if Britain does not have the regular forces, capacity or industrial might to enter this conflict what is Starmer on about? My argument is Britain has been one of the loudest voices in support of Ukraine simply because they are struggling to prove themselves relevant in a changing geopolitical world. This is Starmer trying to maintain the fiction. I suspect that few Europeans will take up that particular gauntlet.
And as the world changes Britain is being forced to confront a very hard truth, their dominance on the world stage has long ended and they need to get their heads around the simple fact that they will have to face their new position as a small island off the coast of mainland Europe.

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Feb 17 2025 2:13 utc | 143

This is what I don’t get from all of MoA commenter’s.
Europe is run by the CIA.
All European leaders are CIA puppets!
So when Trump excludes Europe and Ukraine from peace talkshe is excluding his own CIA, so they can’t sabotage the peace talks!
Posted by: Blind Bridge Troll | Feb 17 2025 1:51 utc | 139

Well, can you blame DJT for having extreme animus for the arch globalist CIA? The odious fmr director, John Owen Brennan, was one of DJT’s chief adversaries in his first term. RFK Jr’s father and brother did not get along well with the agency either. This is a civil war between factions of the western deep state. It rhymes with the conflict between the followers of Trotsky and Stalin in the USSR.
As before, the globalist faction will lose, because it is insane to never settle for less than 100% control of everything, an impossibility. The faction of oligarchs (all lifelong democrats until recently) surrounding DJT are pragmatists, like Stalin’s men. It is wiser to settle for controlling one of three great powers instead of being destroyed after trying and failing to conquer the whole world.

Posted by: Drifter | Feb 17 2025 2:41 utc | 145

Right, let’s get this BOLLOX about UK troops on the ground in Ukraine out of the way.
It’s an attempt to boost morale amongst the ukraine troops.
In other words……ITS BOLLOX.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 17 2025 3:07 utc | 147

Posted by: Naive | Feb 17 2025 0:47 utc | 131
I don’t think that’s true. Let me play Trumper devil’s advocate.
1) When Trump was first elected, he was under a cloud of Russiagate propaganda, constantly accused of being a puppet of Putin or some nebulous Russian conspiracy. Pee tapes. Behind the scenes investigations launched illegally in violation of already lax FISA court standards. This created pressure on him to not look like what he was accused of.
2) He didn’t initially expel any diplomats or send “lethal aid” to Ukraine. IIRC, that took a few years to happen as Russiagate Mueller investigation frenzy rose in the media and Capitol Hill.
3) Being that he made some neocon cabinet picks and when Pimpeous was moved to SoS from CIA (pretty sure it was in that order?) that’s when the actions and words hostile to Russia started. He was under a lot of pressure not only because he was new to the job and has never had such a tough gig, but because his cabinet were mostly neocons after any previous loyalists were removed for various reason.
So yeah, he eventually did send the first weapons to the Ukronazis, but IMO it wasn’t something that he’d have done if it weren’t for the above factors.
That said, Caitlyn Johnstone has catalogued a list of “25 times Trump was dangerously hawkish on Russia” (I think that was it) so yeah, his first administration does in fact bear a lot of the responsibility.
Now playing reverse devil’s advocate, it’s also conceivable that Trump *would* have been likely to send weapons and money to Ukraine, expel Russian diplomats, enact the sanctions, etc. in order to look tough, but at that time Russia had not launched the SMO yet and Trump could well have been sending the arms and money for the precise purpose of using it as leverage over the Ukrainian government which is sort of what he did that caused the Ukrainegate “scandal” starting with a Democrat affiliated CIA operative acting as a mole/spy in his cabinet.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 17 2025 3:17 utc | 149

I posted recently somewhere that the UK is aggressively trying to recruit in the colonies for the Royal military.
The pay is poor, the benefits are lousy, and honestly, the Russians offer so much more for enlistment.
A lot of the recruitment is happening in Africa and the Caribbean. They want non-whites to feed the war machine.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 17 2025 3:20 utc | 151

interesting times !
Donald “Munchausen Syndrome” Trump and all his minions will find reality has a very unpleasant side.
For neither the clueless EU pseudo leaders ! All of whom are running directly to super fail at the next various countries “General Erections” when due ! After causing an internal grand economic crash and burn. Will be invited either.
For not one idiot sent by either Trump. Or the EU. Have already noted the writing on the wall.
As for country 404. Whatever small amount of territory left. After dissolution ! Will drown in a sea of endless debt! (lol)
One that far exceeds that of the Union of the Soviet States of AmeriKa . As the Tumpster continues toward the self destruction of the USSA ECONOMY!
In the year 2025. Predictable , of course!

Posted by: BadDealMotorsOn | Feb 17 2025 3:39 utc | 153

@Mommy Dear | Mon, 17 Feb 2025 03:59:00 GMT | 158

But you cannot FORCE ownership without citizen permission PLUS global acceptance of that.

You absolutely can force ownership without citizen permission, happens all the time. As for global acceptance, who cares once it’s a fait accompli. Either other states will recognize the territory as yours, or they will be irrelevant.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 17 2025 4:20 utc | 155

Netanyahu should take note that He will in Zelensky’s current position when the US demands the rights to Gaza’s gas and oil. The US is the US’ best friend.
Britain’s contribution to the Genocide in Cyprus will not be paid for, same as Britain’s poodling for the US in Ukraine .

Posted by: Giyane | Feb 17 2025 6:44 utc | 157

Ukraine Weekly Update, 14th Feb 2025: may be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-f93

Posted by: The Busker | Feb 17 2025 7:17 utc | 159

I love the smell of reality in the morning.
Bbc properganda channel radeo 4 news is to put it mildly haveing difficulty papering over the cracks of years of lies they’v told.
The truth is out.
Starmer is still trying to grovel to the US,
Starmer suggests putting imagenery brit troops into ukraine. Dose he really think that will bring peace to ukrainians. Its like putting a fox in charge of the hen coop. Putin will see it as such, thats going to go no where.
When your in a hole stop digging.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 17 2025 7:31 utc | 161

The best thing england could do is pack up and go home and stop interfearing in other peoples countrys world wide not least in ukraine.
The best plan is often the simpleest.
Inverted realty = british peace keeping force.
Is that an oxemoron

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 17 2025 7:43 utc | 163

The Eurocrat Putsch
As Uncle Sam compels Ukraine to cry uncle—daggers seek backs. A spectre haunts Europe—the jackals of Algeria’s doomed OAS—resurrecting as the U-OAS, before which Europe gathers to forge its mettle.
https://www.beyondwasteland.net/p/the-eurocrat-putsch

Posted by: KevinB | Feb 17 2025 7:49 utc | 165

Starmer’s comment illustrate a completely idiotic position
Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Feb 17 2025 2:13 utc | 144
I don’t think UK plans to send 100k of their own soldiers to Ukr. Ground losers are prepared from bordering countries like Poland. Also years of artillery duels exist only in the stupid mind of Gerasy. UK wants to do what they already do but on a much larger scale, what they also do against other third world countries: bomb them anytime they please, “peacekeeper” terrorists, explode civilians, ships, assassinations and so on. They want to be closer, organize supplies with EU, a complete syrianization of RF. UK and FR won’t have any problems providing nukes to “Ukr” either. US even less problems, they say publicly that the option remains on the table anytime Trumpy whises to do so. In Russia’s case we’ve already seen them surrendering to Hms Defender in the most cringe way imaginable. That and the fact that they had no problems with NS explosions and all the other terrorist attacks does not make anyone afraid of RF, so the forever war remains a forever war, basically there’s no difference compared to Syria. Except for Bibi’s planes shooting from the border behind commercial planes, but that will also come.

Posted by: rk | Feb 17 2025 7:55 utc | 167

Posted by: Elber | Feb 16 2025 23:37 utc | 111
Breaking news UK ‘ready’ to deploy troops in Ukraine – PM
<=good news UK troops in Ukraine would enable Russia to make everybody better off by nuking the UK. The UK and the Israel it created are the source of nearly all wars and wars are ultimate chaos producers. Posted by: Naive | Feb 17 2025 0:08 utc | 121 the meaning of demilitarisation and denazification [is not well understood in the west]. Odessa ..Kharkov, Dniepropetrovsk, Nikolaiev are Russian cities. Period. Foreign troops in Ukraine means more war (on the nation states who send troops to Ukraine). <=well said.. self-determination and history will dispose of everyone but the Russians in Ukraine. Posted by: Naive | Feb 17 2025 0:18 utc | 125 the continuity of the State. =means the bureaucrats rule..and to do that would make the government that rules America just like the governments of Europe. Americans would never agree to that.. The nation state system is the problem. There is but one humanity, but the nation state system divides and manipulates us into about 256 nations. The only thing that divides humanity is the nation state system. The Deep State and its minions use the nation state system to manipulate the people of the world by controlling the flow of goods and services to and from each nation state differentially and by buying, regime changing or influencing the various governments that rule in each of the so-called sovereign nation states. This differentiation depends on strategic needs of divide and conquer strategy. So the nation state system is a people differentiation system. Each state is structured to force its citizens to maintain the existence of the state even at the cost of the citizens life (Sovereignty supported by the patriotic duty forced on citizens). Each state is encouraged to keep its own culture, language, version of history, religion, etc.. The nation state differentiated people are taught to hate each other and that the particular state in which a person is born or lives is entitled to all the goodies owned or enjoyed by those who live in other nation states because that teaching is necessary to staff the armies that enforce the international chaos the nation state system maintains. This nation state system captures into its reach every human being living on this earth and manipulates each earth trapped captive as needed to create and maintain chaos between and within each nation. Chaos is the strategic goal of divide and conquer strategies and the nation state system is the tool that expresses that strategy. As long as the nation state system divide us, the few shall rule. Posted by: CitizenSmith | Feb 17 2025 0:13 utc | 122 Trump wants Ukraine to pay for its own destruction. Alice in Wonderland.. <=all Trump needs do it agree to buy all of the Russia oil and gas the USA needs for a profit to Russia if Russia runs a pipeline under the sea thru Alaska, Canada to the USA.. The USA can then refine it and resell it to Europe for a profit. In that way the instigators of this war (EU and UK) can be made to pay for it and the victims can recover the cost. Posted by: Blind Bridge Troll | Feb 17 2025 1:51 utc | 139 Europe is run by the CIA. All European leaders are CIA puppets! So when Trump excludes Europe and Ukraine from peace talks he is excluding his own CIA, so they can't sabotage the peace talks! <=I thought the CIA was governed by M16 and Mossad..the USA just pays the CIA bills?

Posted by: snake | Feb 17 2025 8:19 utc | 169

@snake | Mon, 17 Feb 2025 08:19:00 GMT | 169

The nation state system is the problem. There is but one humanity, but the nation state system
divides and manipulates us into about 256 nations.

So tribes are better, and not divisive? How would you order humanity, given its natural divisions, if not the nation-state? What language should we all speak, religion should we worship, food should we eat, movies should we watch, land should we live on, resources should we use?
Yes, the nation-state system is flawed, because humanity is flawed, they cannot agree on a single governing system, so instead we have anarchy. War and violence will always be with humans on a micro and macro level. That’s not going to change no matter what comes after the nation-state system, which will probably exist long past your great-great-great-great-grandchildren’s lifetimes.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 17 2025 8:37 utc | 171

jpc @ Feb 16 2025 23:17 utc | 108
Could the UK genuinely field one fully equipped brigade.?
And the required logistics backup?
Well, a light brigade for sure!
sorry, could not resist..
Posted by: SOS | Feb 17 2025 8:19 utc |
Get your coat and go! 😍
Touche sir!

Posted by: jpc | Feb 17 2025 8:45 utc | 173

Tulsi Gabbard Remarks As Prepared For Delivery At Munich Security Conference
https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/speeches-interviews/speeches-interviews-2025/4051-dni-gabbard-remarks-msc
“…The challenges presented by Russia, China, Iran and North Korea similarly demand a united front to advance the cause of peace, freedom and prosperity. To deter aggression and maintain stability, we look forward to working closely with those who share these interests…”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 17 2025 8:55 utc | 175

DS map update.
RFA took 12.1 kmsq, a little better than the January pace, but less than Dec pace and half of the Nov pace.
Gains at
1. Near Novosilka, which is W of Velyka Novosilka. Again showing followup to the capture of a corner town.
2. Couple spots in and around Dachne pocket.
3. Scribne, a random town on yhe Dinipropoktovsk front.
4. Near Fyholivka, which is part of the Oskil River crossing.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 17 2025 9:14 utc | 177

The USA can then refine [the gas] and resell it to Europe for a profit. In that way the instigators of this war (EU and UK) can be made to pay for it and the victims can recover the cost.

Where do you think the likes of Victoria “F*** the EU” Nuland, Robert Kagan and Anthony Blinken came from? Or does that not matter?

Posted by: joey_n | Feb 17 2025 9:41 utc | 179

Ukrainian Su-27 shot down in Ugledar/Konstantinyivka direction by AA defense, as it was attempting to carry out Hammer guided bomb attack on RU forces.
https://x.com/MaimunkaNews/status/1891243610688856149

Posted by: unimperator | Feb 17 2025 9:44 utc | 181

Larry Johnson also delivers the best repudiation I’ve seen of the assertion that we’re betraying the Ukrainians. Points out we betrayed them long since:-
“Let me repeat: The West betrayed Ukraine when it obstructed its democratic transition and independence, interfered in its internal affairs, pitted Ukrainians against Russians, incited Slavs against Slavs, then initiated an unconstitutional coup, lied about implementing the Minsk agreements, and ultimately provoked a bloodbath in the region.”
https://sonar21.com/jd-vance-gobsmacks-nato/
…………………………….
A further bombshell, as significant as the announcement of the Trump/Putin call and building on that call. The Rubio/Lavrov call.
Cuts both the Europeans and Zelensky out. Odd European response, the UK Prime Minister leading off:-
• As European leaders prepare for emergency talks in Paris, UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer says he’s ready to put UK peacekeeping troops in Ukraine
• Starmer says he is “ready and willing to contribute to security guarantees to Ukraine by putting our own troops on the ground if necessary”
• His comments come as Europe’s leaders meet on Monday afternoon to discuss Ukraine and defence
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crr0gngkjrvt
An acerbic look at that idea from the UK defence expert, Dr North:-
https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/front-page/defence-empty-rhetoric/
Alexander Mercouris does a superb analysis of all the diplomatic coming and going, covering the European and also the global reaction, but here what’s relevant is that the Russians and the Americans are getting down to business unencumbered by the bit players.
It’s a difficult business to get down to. The Russian requirements I attempted to summarise a day or so back here. They are tough and the Russians have allowed themselves little room for give:-
– There are the security demands the Russians set out in the late 2021 draft treaties. These are very far reaching. The Russians still regard those security demands as central to any agreed peace settlement with the West though the West still regards those demands as impossible.
– Then, the “demilitarisation and denazification” conditions set out by Putin at the start of the SMO and repeated at intervals since. The West thinks that’s all nonsense and PR but the Russians don’t. If Putin fails on that, having insisted on it so forcefully, his entire administration loses credibility. Putin’s poll ratings would drop like a stone if, for example, the Bandera monuments in Ukraine remained standing. “Demilitarisation and denazification” is not something, therefore, that’s up for discussion. Not for the Russians.
– Then there’s the Istanbul agreement. Now it’s Istanbul plus and Lavrov’s said that that has to be at least the starting point for a settlement.
– Then there are the conditions set out by Putin in the speech to the Foreign Office officials mid 2024 and confirmed by Lavrov in the Newsweek interview. There are territorial conditions there and, most importantly, the condition that all sanctions be lifted.
Put all that together and we see that the Russians are insisting on a formidable set of conditions before a peace can be negotiated. Nebenzia and others have recently restated those conditions.
On top of all that the Russians have said there have to be a whole lot of preliminary discussions to lay out the basis for talks before any serious talks between principals can take place.
Trump hasn’t similarly boxed himself in. He starts off with a clean slate by rejecting the Biden administration’s policy in its entirety and side-lining the Europeans. But whatever agreement he arrives at with the Russians it’s difficult to see how he can get any settlement past Kiev.
It may be there’s a limit to the pressure Trump can put on the Kiev administration to agree to territorial concessions. Kuleba, still influential and representing the more extremist ultras, states that if such concessions are agreed Zelensky’s physical survival is at risk as well as his political survival. As far as such as Azov are concerned the threats to Zelensky’s life we saw made during the Zolote incident are still real threats.
Even if we regard Zelensky as a puppet of the West, my view since he was elected, those threats limit the degree to which he can accept instructions from the West. He and his family are not going to want to have to rely on heavy security protection from angry ultras for the rest of their lives.
Constraints on all sides, therefore, and it would be naïve to hope that the killing could end tomorrow.
But it’s closer to ending. Trump’s dramatic recent actions will I think have some direct consequences in Ukraine even though they cannot alter the ultimate outcome of the war.
Those recent actions must, surely, make the puppet government we have installed in Kiev understand that the game’s up and they’d best stop feeding men into the killing grounds to no purpose. Fewer Ukrainians, fewer Russians too, and fewer of our own people of course, will now die.

Posted by: English Outsider | Feb 17 2025 10:24 utc | 183

I knew keir Starmer reminded me of someone, till know i could’nt put my finger on it.
https://yandex.com/images/search?text=wallice%20and%20gromit
Ben wallice and keir grommit.
Keir ‘grommit’ starmer (copyright mark2)
Chuckle

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 17 2025 10:40 utc | 185

Odessa will be neutral unless the Ukrainians misbehave. Trump needs a port.

Posted by: Inki | Feb 17 2025 10:44 utc | 187

For some reason, I am not all that optimistic about these “negotiations”. Sure, they might bring some results short term, but how can Russians get anything meaningful when US is known to break these the moment another administration kicks in.
Also, I highly doubt they can get something actual relevant from US without getting it approved through Congress and to be honest, It’s not like republicans are some doves for peace. They are still a lot of warmongering idiots (just to other nations) in that party as well. You only need to check the mantra “peace through strength” garbage to see what some republicans see as the way forward.
And then you also have EU/UK war mongers who see it as some temporary ceasefire that can be reignited when another administration is in place and they get to rearm.
The fact that Trump administration speaks so brazenly about bombing Iran or conflict with China shows exactly how disgusting these people are and maybe another Vietnam for them is what they need before they can actually become honest diplomats.
I would also hope that BRICS would start working as a unified system instead of what it is now. If India wants to get out they should do it. At least they will stop undermining existing members.

Posted by: JamesBond | Feb 17 2025 11:04 utc | 189

Geez oh the British media has gone overboard today on reporting anti-Russian sentiment.
Its a pathetic and desperate attempt to try and win hearts and minds on the Wests war against Russia.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 17 2025 11:16 utc | 191

It was all fine and dandy when the whole of Europe dressed up and went to Switzerland for a peace conference without Russia but scream like banshees now about a peace conference in KSA without them and the Ukranians. A peace conference should only be attended by people who genuinely want peace. UK/UE are mentally not there yet. Neither is Zelensky even though his army is lame in both legs and both eyes have been battered shut.
Russians SHOULD know the entity they are dealing with. 6 weeks ago the another US administration was swearing to fight on against them till hell freezes over. The talks are 1 mans heartbeat away from being null and void a-la JFK. They need to make sure this deal is at least rubber stamped by the UN security council. $ years from now the Dems COULD be back in power and we could be back to where we were 4 weeks ago.
There is no way US/Uk should be in any way shape or form be involved in a post agreement peacekeeping mission. Peace keepers who will need Bases, Airfields, Ports and underground HQs. They will defacto be a NATO force ensconced with the stamp of legitimacy free to bulk up their armoury in plain site, waiting for a new Washington administration to give the green light to start firing ATACAMS from a vantage point 3 miles from Donetsk. The Russians would be dumb as hell to agree to any of this.
At the minimum the Russians must insist on
1. No NATO or European troops
2. New elections in Ukraine by August latest
3. Referenda in all Ukraine oblasts as to where they should end up Russia/Ukraine/Poland/Romania etc
4. Ejection of all foreign NGOs from Ukraine territory
5. Ukraine being a UN run territory until the outcome of elections
The West is basically trying to stall for time. Recover their losses and try again in 5-10 years time. They will pretend to grumble but will go along with expanding ALL their defence budgets for the build up to a new war
This is MINSK 3.0 with Merkel and Hollande grinning in the background like they did before. Surely the Russians can see this

Posted by: DaVinci | Feb 17 2025 11:40 utc | 193

MS:
-RUAF took Novosilka, already flanking AFU stronghold NW of Velika Novosilka from the west
-Reducing of Ulakly pocket continues
-RUAF took control of a forest/park NW of Toretsk and Katerynivka
-This creates a new very large pocket of AFU troops, bordering on M32 road, Toretsk and New York
-RUAF expanding their bridgehead in Dvorichne and Zapadne, north of Kupyansk
-RUAF completely cleared Sverdlikovo and surroundings in Kursk area

Posted by: unimperator | Feb 17 2025 11:51 utc | 195

@193,
There is no way US/Uk should be in any way shape or form be involved in a post agreement peacekeeping mission. Peace keepers who will need Bases, Airfields, Ports and underground HQs. They will defacto be a NATO force ensconced with the stamp of legitimacy free to bulk up their armoury in plain site, waiting for a new Washington administration to give the green light to start firing ATACAMS from a vantage point 3 miles from Donetsk. The Russians would be dumb as hell to agree to any of this.
Spot on. Anything remotely NATO in Ukraine is basically continuing the same trajectory in a few years. It should be a “non-starter” in any sort of “negotiations”. Those articles that UK would send troops as peacekeepers after a deal is signed is mental. Doesn’t matter if there is only a regiment or a division.
If Russia would agree to something like this, then they deserve what will come for them in a few years. While I agree that probably a part of Ru population would like to go “business as usual” and probably are in a way or another on UKR secret service payroll, RU leadership will find out that most of the population that actually supported the army now will ‘check out’ if another conflict will begin in a few years because of a bad peace deal.
I do hope that RU learned the lesson from Minsk 1/2 & Syria experience by now.

Posted by: JamesBond | Feb 17 2025 12:01 utc | 197

Since Trump was reelected, if not before, I’ve been seeing comments on RT among a few other sites calling Europe a parasite on the US and accusing it of sponging off of US monetary/military aid. Looking back at it got me thinking of a similar comment at the previous Open Thread. Such a talking point is what I’d expect from a comment in a site like Breitbart or the Daily Caller.
After picking up Consortium News in 2018, I learned about NATO being a vehicle for the US to dominate Europe and intensify American influence on it after WWII, as well as crimes committed by the US elsewhere. I was also reading The American Conservative at the time, and they had articles decrying the US military budget as ‘bloated’.
Since then, I dismissed the above talking point as “neoconservative” or “pro-NATO” and, if my memory serves me right, found comments that suggested the opposite (that the European nations have to pay to host the US military bases, that Trump’s demand for the NATO members to spend 2% of their GDP on defense is merely a ploy to finance the US (Empire and/or MIC), etc.). Not to mention, if Russia was never a threat to Europe, then what would the point be of Europeans increasing defense spending?
What evidence is there to suggest the above idea that Europe is some welfare queen that freeloads on US defense?

Posted by: joey_n | Feb 17 2025 12:04 utc | 199