News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
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February 9, 2025
Ukraine Open Thread 2025-028
News & views related to the war in Ukraine …
Comments
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 10 2025 0:22 utc | 94 Posted by: Naive | Feb 10 2025 0:59 utc | 101 Details on military summary channel show very precise hammering of AFU supply vehicles along Sumy-Sudzha road. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 1:06 utc | 102 Trump is owned by Musk and Musk is a crook and a fascist of the mussolinian kind. He wants all the available money for his personal projects. Posted by: Acco Hengst | Feb 10 2025 1:09 utc | 103 Maybe, but consider also the abolition and civil war was about taking away the advantage southern states had over northern states with regard to the cheap slave labour, giving them an unfair advantage over northern businesses. Posted by: UWDude | Feb 10 2025 1:12 utc | 104 Posted by: UWDude | Feb 10 2025 1:12 utc | 104 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 10 2025 1:17 utc | 105 crits welcome, Posted by: UWDude | Feb 10 2025 1:24 utc | 106 @UWDude | Mon, 10 Feb 2025 01:12:00 GMT | 104
The root cause of the American Civil War was secession. Whether states have the right to leave the union in a UDI – unilateral declaration of independence. That issue was “resolved” only because the Confederacy lost their secession bid. Posted by: James M. | Feb 10 2025 1:27 utc | 107 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Feb 10 2025 1:09 utc | 103 Posted by: UWDude | Feb 10 2025 1:33 utc | 108 Did they get the right to vote immediately after? I am not sure, actually. I do know that things like the poll tax and other shenanigans were in place for many years until the Civil Rights Act was passed. Posted by: UWDude | Feb 10 2025 1:47 utc | 109 A look back …. Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 10 2025 1:49 utc | 110 The reason a territory leaves a sovereign state is immaterial. Posted by: UWDude | Feb 10 2025 1:51 utc | 111 Posted by: UWDude | Feb 10 2025 1:47 utc | 109 Posted by: Caveman | Feb 10 2025 1:55 utc | 112 Dima says that the Ukrainians have been totally defeated near Sudzha, with a road of death leading back to Sumy. Posted by: Newbie | Feb 10 2025 1:55 utc | 113 Posted by: Caveman | Feb 10 2025 1:55 utc | 112 Posted by: UWDude | Feb 10 2025 1:58 utc | 114 Posted by: UWDude | Feb 10 2025 1:58 utc | 114 Posted by: Caveman | Feb 10 2025 2:01 utc | 115 BTW, i said “thousands of tens of thousands” of reasons. Meaning slavery was maybe 10-30% of the war. like most wars, there was no single major cause, as wars are essentially inextinguishable flames of hate that burn quietly for decades or even centuries… Posted by: UWDude | Feb 10 2025 2:02 utc | 116
Not just for federal disbursements, but for representation in the House. Counting slaves (who could not vote) as a whole person meant that southern states got proportionally more representatives and more power in the legislature. The 2/3 designation was a compromise, as most in the North thought that slaves should not count at all in apportioning representatives, as they had no vote. Posted by: Mike R | Feb 10 2025 2:06 utc | 117 All of the compromises that led to the Civil War were bound to fail. The Missouri Compromise, adding one free state for every slave state that entered the union, California being admitted to the Union under the condition that they send one pro-slavery senator to Washington. All put off the inevitable, the war that was primarily over slavery. The south was never going to allow it to die without a fight, and they gave a real fight to keep it, but they got greedy and invaded the north and that led pretty much directly to their destruction at Gettysburg, which was an absolutely pivotal moment in the war. That, coupled with Lincoln landing on Grant as the guy to lead the Army of the Potomac, led to the end of chattel slavery as a legal institution in the US, the main conflict of the war. Posted by: Caveman | Feb 10 2025 2:14 utc | 118 I just realized you said that, I was stuck on Johnson, when it was really the end of Grant. Your timeline is definitely right, friend. Great posts on this topic (and in general)! Posted by: UWDude | Feb 10 2025 2:14 utc | 119 ******LoveDonbass @46 Posted by: Jerr | Feb 10 2025 3:51 utc | 120 Oreshnik is a game changer. Posted by: Gruf Enuff | Feb 10 2025 4:33 utc | 121 No updates on the good old new old Kursk assault. Nothing. Which does in fact make it identical to the previous one. So very strong. Posted by: boneless | Feb 10 2025 5:20 utc | 122 1) Exactly what I wrote. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 10 2025 5:25 utc | 123 Oh, and since I caught the word “Gruff” in another’s signature line (another childish name-morpher?), I thought I’d add that a user at Unz going by the unique handle “William Gruff” often ‘agrees’ with comments that attest to the supposedly uniquely trustworthy and otherwise superior nature of us white (?) people. Coincidence? I don’t know. Maybe MoA’s William Gruff can weigh in. My own name has been co-opted many times here and at other sites, so I don’t rule anything out. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 10 2025 5:28 utc | 124 ..but the biggest cause was indeed slavery. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 10 2025 5:30 utc | 125 Posted by: Caveman | Feb 10 2025 1:55 utc | 112 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 10 2025 5:33 utc | 126 And yes, Yankees and sLimeys cannot be trusted… Posted by: Jmaas | Feb 10 2025 6:10 utc | 127 EU’s von der Leyen Calls For Alternative to NATO Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 10 2025 6:43 utc | 128 Deepseek Compared to ChatGPT on the Ukraine War Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 10 2025 7:21 utc | 129 @UWDude | Mon, 10 Feb 2025 01:51:00 GMT | 111
The action taken is more important. I see you didn’t address any other point I made. Wars are not just or unjust, although they can be framed that way – they are extensions of policy.
In this case yes, slavery was/is bad, the South wanted to preserve it, the North wanted to end it. But the action of secession precipitated the war, changing the dialogue from one of co-existence to zero-sum. Posted by: James M. | Feb 10 2025 7:52 utc | 130 West Continues Flooding Kiev Regime With Arms Despite Potential Talks – Russian Diplomat Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 10 2025 8:09 utc | 131 Don’t know what’s worse the shadow banned clones or the off topic discussion on us civil war and slavery. Posted by: Newbie | Feb 10 2025 8:55 utc | 132 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 9 2025 21:17 utc | 64 Posted by: snake | Feb 10 2025 10:10 utc | 133 Vladimir Putin is a mediocre leader who might’ve believed that his bluff in 2022 would work, probably because of poor intel but he was responsible for mediocrity of intelligence agencies. Russia got now trapped in this endless war, squandering soviet stocks and precious manpower. Posted by: Mirty | Feb 10 2025 10:24 utc | 134 “Trump’s IQ is below 100.” Mentioned in MSM – a former Tory MP, defeated last July, by the name of Jack Lopresti has joined the Ukrainian armed forces. In a non-combat role, apparently (he is 55). He told Metro that this was a battle for Europe (Lopresti is of Sicilian ancestry but supported Brexit when he was an MP) and a “dictator” like Putin allegedly is could not be allowed to win. Usual BS. Lopresti used to be a British Army reservist. Posted by: Waldorf | Feb 10 2025 11:30 utc | 137 Dima says that Donald Trump has insulted Russian President Vladimir Putin with his latest negotiation offer. Posted by: guest from franconia | Feb 10 2025 11:34 utc | 138 Tom_Q_Collins @124: “Maybe MoA’s William Gruff can weigh in.”
The concern wasn’t about the “free labor”, since of course slavery isn’t free. The issue was actually about a market of millions of potential consumers that was denied to capitalists due to slavery, as well as the market for agricultural machinery that slavery undermined. Don’t you think a northern mill owner of the period would happily have employed slaves chained to his machinery if it conferred an advantage? They didn’t do so because slavery offers no advantage in capitalism. It is an anachronistic vestige of feudalism. Believe it or not, capitalism is a more efficient, and thus more profitable, mode of labor exploitation than slavery. Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 10 2025 11:48 utc | 139 Posted by: canuck | Feb 10 2025 11:17 utc | 139 Posted by: watcher | Feb 10 2025 11:51 utc | 140 Posted by: ANON2022 | Feb 10 2025 8:53 utc | 133 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 11:56 utc | 141 Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 10 2025 6:43 utc | 128 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 12:00 utc | 142 138 – I think Putin is impervious to insults, perhaps a little more than he should be. Posted by: Waldorf | Feb 10 2025 12:17 utc | 143 133 – Kiev will bleed to death before Russia does, though I am not wild about wars of attrition. If Zelensky is smart he will try to make a deal though I am far from convinced Russia should go for it, teven if it might. Posted by: Waldorf | Feb 10 2025 12:21 utc | 144 @ Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 12:00 utc | 142 Posted by: Me | Feb 10 2025 12:28 utc | 145 DS daily update: Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 10 2025 12:29 utc | 146 Posted by: Me | Feb 10 2025 12:28 utc | 145 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 12:32 utc | 148 Ukrainian beating up two cops trying to mobilize him. Bystander asks if he needs help and for him to join in. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 12:36 utc | 149 Posted by: guest from franconia | Feb 10 2025 11:34 utc | 138 Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 10 2025 12:50 utc | 150 Lt.-Gen.(retd.) H. R. McMaster chimes in:
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 10 2025 12:52 utc | 151 By the way, the Romanian president Iohannis (who was an EU installed puppet after they cancelled the election) is resigning on February 12th. Interesting development. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 12:53 utc | 152 Whatever you think of Trump or zionazis. Maybe the zionazis have decided to sacrifice the EU. In this context the EU doesn’t have much life left in it. NATO is also a massive burden on US finances. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 12:56 utc | 153 NATO is also a massive burden on US finances. Posted by: too scents | Feb 10 2025 13:04 utc | 154 Posted by: too scents | Feb 10 2025 13:04 utc | 154 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 13:09 utc | 155 It is plausible that Russia could currently be expecting a military coup in Ukraine followed by a total surrender of the army to RF. Posted by: Greg Galloway | Feb 10 2025 13:12 utc | 156 I think all these pundits like Dima talking about negotiations are just engaging in mental masturbation.
B may agree or not, but I would suggest that commentors here not waste their time discussing phony rumors or second-hand “stories” about negotiations when there won’t be any. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 10 2025 13:12 utc | 157 Nice timing, Michael Hudson and Richard Wolff on Dialogue Works are talking about the European predicament related to the prospects of dissolution ensued by unbearable costs from sanctions, energy, de-industrialization and Ukraine war. The euro-USD exchange rate is very low, by the way, and will go lower, causing more crisis. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 13:18 utc | 158
It should say war in Ukraine & Russia. It’s been half a year. Posted by: nurart | Feb 10 2025 13:24 utc | 159 Waldorf | Feb 10 2025 11:30 utc | 137 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 10 2025 13:31 utc | 160 Posted by: nurart | Feb 10 2025 13:24 utc | 159 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 13:32 utc | 161 *** Romania could swing away from EU, it could mean a deal to divide west Ukrainian territories, and the start of Euronato disintegration. Posted by: frithguild | Feb 10 2025 14:01 utc | 162 Trump will in this term act in what he thinks is the interest of the USA not so ,much himself. i suspect he will often be wrong, but let us not misinterpret the motive. Posted by: juliania | Feb 10 2025 14:29 utc | 163 Waldorf | Feb 10 2025 11:30 utc | 137 Posted by: Cynic | Feb 10 2025 14:31 utc | 164 *** Each Oreshnik has 36 packets capable of passing right through a carrier. Posted by: frithguild | Feb 10 2025 14:33 utc | 165 Gruf Enuff@121….bullshit and utter fantasy, until a Orshrink passes through an aircraft carrier its no different than plowing holes in dirt….. practical observable actions speak loudest….for all the fancy, new technology, you can’t stop us (unless we are stuck on the LOCC) Russia has been reactionary and back footed since the SlogMow started. From 2017 until 2021 Russia made the Donbass militias sit on their hands and not respond to 404 provocations, bombings, kidnappings and rapes. How many LDPR residents soldiers died because Russia was showing “restraint” and appeasement allowing 404 to massively build up their forces in the LDPR, mainly the Donetsk area. That’s all been on record, Bentley’s biggest beef, the Russians would not let them retaliate. Just one of a long line of back footed moves by Russia. Even after the Ukie negotiator was shot by his own, hey is that not “writing on the wall”…..going into year four now and Bog Roll Boy still rules. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 10 2025 14:41 utc | 166 Trump spoke by phone with Putin yesterday regarding a ceasefire, that’s words from Trump’s mouth….so he’s either lying, never spoke with Putin, never talked ceasefire…..or, there’s gonna be a lot of egg rolling off many faces here…….. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 10 2025 14:59 utc | 167 From all the verifiable news, it looks like an actual meat grinder in Pokrovk, and the slaughtered troops are Russian. Posted by: Louis | Feb 10 2025 15:11 utc | 168 Louis – stop making shit up. Dima’s video this morning covered Kursk, and there is a slaughter of NATO/UKR with no progress made. In fact the Russians gained territory on the western side. Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 10 2025 15:12 utc | 169 Louis@168…..the goal is to hold one of Russia’s main LNG Metering Stations that feeds the EU. It is and has been under Ukie control since the Kursk adventure began. It’s a huge bargaining chip should a ceasefire break out. Britkrainia doesn’t give a toss about how high the death piles…..it is and always has been about money and control and distribution of resources, see: Big Guys 10%. People are expendable, only the chosen are safe, see: Bog Roll Boy. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 10 2025 15:32 utc | 170 Bravo and thanks to Canuck about the legal problems arising from chloronization pollution – of course Ukraine was always a filthy whorehouse. I don’t doubt that once this war is won, the real story of Covid will emerge. Posted by: Stierlitz | Feb 10 2025 15:34 utc | 171 @psychohistorian | Feb 9 2025 22:45 utc | 79 Posted by: b4real | Feb 10 2025 15:38 utc | 172 Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 9 2025 22:16 utc | 76 Posted by: Paranaense | Feb 10 2025 15:40 utc | 173 @ b4real | Feb 10 2025 15:38 utc | 172 with an apology for a dressing down I probably deserved….thanks Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 10 2025 15:55 utc | 174 It’s February 10, 2025 in Oz. Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 10 2025 16:01 utc | 175 What’s that hissing noise? Nope, it’s not the air deflating out of US ceasefire proposals, or the leprechaun on the poitín again, it’s this:
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 10 2025 16:04 utc | 176 Scholz a US puppet squeaks – is it any wonder Europe is in the state its in right now. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 10 2025 16:17 utc | 177 @168 Posted by: GW | Feb 10 2025 16:22 utc | 178 https://www.flightradar24.com/RRR4953/39147f76 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 10 2025 16:23 utc | 179 https://www.statista.com/statistics/1475327/israel-annual-number-of-jewish-immigrants/
Posted by: librul | Feb 10 2025 16:32 utc | 180 Yves homes in on the biggest problem for peace talks. Lavrov keeps repeating the same unanswerable question, in so many words: How — even why — does anyone negotiate with a uniformly untrustworthy, “openly lawless” regime?
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Feb 10 2025 16:34 utc | 181 Military summary: Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 16:57 utc | 182 Ha, any truth to these? Posted by: ReinhardVonSiegfried | Feb 10 2025 17:02 utc | 183 As for the discussion about the US Civil War, the causes were myriad, the catalyst or proximate cause was slavery. However, my state demonstrably DID NOT secede because of slavery. Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 10 2025 17:09 utc | 184 ReinhardVonSiegfried | Feb 10 2025 17:02 utc | 183 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 10 2025 17:20 utc | 185 Looks like Nato is losing control, at least, absolute control over Romania. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 10 2025 17:27 utc | 186 Posted by: ReinhardVonSiegfried | Feb 10 2025 17:02 utc | 183 Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 10 2025 17:30 utc | 187 *** President Klaus Iohannis announced his resignation just 2 days before he was facing almost certain impeachment in Romanian parliament. Posted by: frithguild | Feb 10 2025 18:10 utc | 188 @ unimperator, §142: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 10 2025 18:14 utc | 189 @ frithguild, §162: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 10 2025 18:21 utc | 190
established cross country transport with Deutsche Bundeswehr: Posted by: MAKK | Feb 10 2025 18:23 utc | 191 Black MEN got the right to vote after the Civil War. Black women had to wait until after the Russian Revolution made the west look bad, in terms of women’s rights. Posted by: wagelaborer | Feb 10 2025 18:29 utc | 192 *** [G]rant Poland Galicia & Volyn in exchange for the southern bit of (East) Prussia. *** Posted by: frithguild | Feb 10 2025 18:45 utc | 193 – I continue to think that Russia has lost A LOT OF 1) fighter planes 2) tanks. That’s the reason – IMO – why Russia doesn’t want to risk any large & expensive losses of these pieces of equipment anymore. I also think that these heavy losses have Russia forced to switch to a war of attrition. They are using “war of attrition” as an excuse to why Russia doesn’t want to risk any losses anymore of tanks and fighter planes. Posted by: WMG | Feb 10 2025 19:11 utc | 194 my guess is that nato (“the ukraine”) has lost a lot of armour and planes, and that is why they remain so cowardly in going all in, as they certainly cannot aford to lose more, especially with such a heavily documented “war” with cameras everywhere. Posted by: Justpassinby | Feb 10 2025 19:16 utc | 195 *** who knows the history and the current ethnic situation and who doesn’t. Posted by: frithguild | Feb 10 2025 19:23 utc | 196
Posted by: Justpassinby | Feb 10 2025 19:16 utc | 197
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 10 2025 19:38 utc | 197 Frankly, a Galicia – Lodmeria “Ukranian” state that has no military along the lines of Austria makes the most sense. Posted by: malenkov | Feb 10 2025 19:44 utc | 198 @ frithguild | Feb 10 2025 19:23 utc | 198 Posted by: malenkov | Feb 10 2025 19:48 utc | 199 @199 Posted by: paddy | Feb 10 2025 19:48 utc | 200 |
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