The Game Is Up Trump Tells Ukrainian War Party
Today the Trump administration told the Ukraine war party that their game is finally up. Everything it had hoped for is out of reach:
Hegseth Says Return to Ukraine’s Pre-2014 Borders Is ‘Unrealistic’ (archived) - New York Times, Feb 12 2025
A return to Ukraine’s pre-2014 borders is “an unrealistic objective” and an “illusionary goal” in the peace settlement between Ukraine and Russia that President Trump wants to accomplish, the U.S. Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, said on Wednesday at a meeting of countries supporting Ukraine.
...
Mr. Trump, he added, does not support Ukraine’s membership in NATO as part of a realistic peace plan.After a settlement, “a durable peace for Ukraine must include robust security guarantees to ensure that the war will not begin again,” but that would be the responsibility, he said, of European and non-European troops in a “non-NATO mission” unprotected by NATO’s Article Five commitment to collective defense.
No American troops will be deployed to Ukraine, he said, and Europe should provide “the overwhelming share of future lethal and nonlethal aid to Ukraine.”
Just yesterday Zelenski claimed that Europe cannot guarantee Ukraine’s security without the US. He is right with that. Over the last years Russia's military power has tripled. No alliance of current European armies could withstand its power should a conflict over Ukraine reignite.
There is only one party that can and is willing to give Ukraine real security guarantees.
That party is of course, as I wrote 20 months ago, Russia:
A main question for Ukraine since it became an independent state was who or what could potentially guarantee its security.
...
The Ukraine is now obviously losing the war. It will soon need to sign a capitulation like ceasefire agreement with Russia.But who or what can guarantee that any such agreement will be held up?
...
There will be no NATO membership or NATO security guarantees for Ukraine, neither now nor ever.A direct full security guarantee from Washington to Kiev is also impossible. It would create a high likelihood of a direct war between the U.S. and Russia which would soon become nuclear. The U.S. will not want to risk that.
...
There is only one country in the world that can guarantee peace in Ukraine and the security of its borders. That country is Russia!But any such guarantee will of course come with conditions attached to it. Either Ukraine will accept those or it will never be secure from outer interference.
That is simply a fact of life Ukraine has had to, and will have to live with.
This was all so very obvious.
Why did it take so long for realism to come to the fore?
Posted by b on February 12, 2025 at 17:18 UTC | Permalink
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“I just had a lengthy and highly productive phone call with President Vladimir Putin of Russia. We discussed Ukraine, the Middle East, Energy, Artificial Intelligence, the power of the Dollar, and various other subjects. We both reflected on the Great History of our Nations, and the fact that we fought so successfully together in World War II, remembering, that Russia lost tens of millions of people, and we, likewise, lost so many! We each talked about the strengths of our respective Nations, and the great benefit that we will someday have in working together. But first, as we both agreed, we want to stop the millions of deaths taking place in the War with Russia/Ukraine. President Putin even used my very strong Campaign motto of, “COMMON SENSE.” We both believe very strongly in it. We agreed to work together, very closely, including visiting each other’s Nations. We have also agreed to have our respective teams start negotiations immediately, and we will begin by calling President Zelenskyy, of Ukraine, to inform him of the conversation, something which I will be doing right now. I have asked Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Director of the CIA John Ratcliffe, National Security Advisor Michael Waltz, and Ambassador and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, to lead the negotiations which, I feel strongly, will be successful. Millions of people have died in a War that would not have happened if I were President, but it did happen, so it must end. No more lives should be lost! I want to thank President Putin for his time and effort with respect to this call, and for the release, yesterday, of Marc Fogel, a wonderful man that I personally greeted last night at the White House. I believe this effort will lead to a successful conclusion, hopefully soon!“
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 12 2025 17:29 utc | 2
Didn't have anywhere to put this, but it is kind of relevant to the Ukraine War, Alice Weidel: Oligarch Tool
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 12 2025 17:32 utc | 4
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 12 2025 17:29 utc | 2
Interesting list of names there; has Kellogg been side-lined?
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 12 2025 17:33 utc | 5
Hopefully, as Kellogg is an imbecile. The sanctions are already at 9/10 and any further advances in their application would entail serious pain, for Maerica as well as her allies (not that the US cares about that, unless its Israel of course). Bluster and posturing doesn't work when you've got zero leverage.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Feb 12 2025 17:38 utc | 7
Yes, he has been sidelined. To old and too caught up in a Cold War mentality. Plus, it came out his daughter was running some operation funded by USAID in Ukraine.
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 12 2025 17:39 utc | 8
Of course Russia will negotiate, but that will not lead to anything until they get what they want. In the meantime, they keep changing the facts on the ground and the Zelensky regime gets weaker and weaker; especially now that Trump has completely delegitimized Zelensky and ruled out any NATO involvement. One condition should be free votes in each oblast for which country the population wants to be part of, a bloodless way of gaining Odessa, Dnipro and Kharkov.
I can see some other negotiations taking place, between those senior regime operatives and commanders that now have fully smelt the coffee and want a secure position in the future and the Russians. Things could now move quickly on this front given how obvious the future now is.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 12 2025 17:39 utc | 9
Thanks b, for these latest analyses.
My greatest hope is that the war in Ukraine ends permanently, and it seems to happen now. As it is said, the only party to provide security to Ukraine is indeed Russia.
But for this nightmare to truly end, two things must happen: Dissolution of NATO and EU.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2025 17:40 utc | 10
Trump has claimed he had a lengthy phone call with Putin today. Has there been any comment on whether or not this call occurred from the Russian side?
Posted by: a stone | Feb 12 2025 17:44 utc | 11
Putin invited Trump to Moscow — Peskovhttps://t.me/Slavyangrad/119301May we suggest the May 9th Victory Parade... Ura! 😏
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2025 17:47 utc | 12
The dropping of Ukraine like a hot potato is real. That is why EU and especially Baltic states are panicking, trying to create incidents in Baltic commercial shipping to force Trump's hand.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 12 2025 17:48 utc | 13
Has there been any comment on whether or not this call occurred from the Russian side?Posted by: a stone | Feb 12 2025 17:44 utc | 11
Yes, towards the end of the previous Ukraine thread there’s a link to TASS covering a statement from Peskov, confirming the call.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 12 2025 17:48 utc | 14
Has any one else noticed that the usual spokes-creeps for the War Party have been awfully silent, lately?
No epic meltdowns from Miss Lindsay Graham (perhaps too busy picking out panties and heels) or "Bitch" McConnell? True, the latter is pretty much 90% embalmed and could be laid out to rest in the Capitol rotunda any moment, now.
What about Liz Cheney? I would expect her to issue a spittle-laden fatwa any day now ... her Dad might also still be kicking? What gives?
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 12 2025 17:50 utc | 15
Repost of the TASS link: https://tass.com/politics/1912285
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 12 2025 17:54 utc | 16
‼️🇷🇺 🇺🇸Putin spoke to Trump on the phone. The main thing:https://t.me/geromanat/44606📍The conversation between Putin and Trump lasted almost 1.5 hours;
📍The parties discussed the Middle East settlement and bilateral relations between Russia and the United States;
📍Putin invited Trump to Moscow;
📍Putin and Trump agreed in a telephone conversation to organize a personal meeting;
📍The Russian leader supported Trump's thesis that the time has come to work together;
📍Putin told Trump about the need for elimination.
the root causes of the Ukrainian conflict;
📍The Russian President agreed with Trump that a long-term settlement in Ukraine can be achieved through negotiations;
📍Trump said he had a "productive conversation" with Putin;
📍The American president said that he discussed Ukraine and the Middle East with Putin, among other things;
📍The Middle East and the Iranian nuclear program were discussed in the conversation between Putin and Trump;
📍In a conversation with Putin, Trump spoke in favor of a speedy end to hostilities in Ukraine;
📍The US President stated that he and Putin agreed in a telephone conversation, among other things, to exchange visits;
📍During the conversation, Putin and Trump touched upon, among other things, bilateral relations between the Russian Federation and the United States in the economic sphere;
📍Putin and Trump discussed the exchange of Russian and US citizens, Washington guaranteed the implementation of the agreements reached;
📍The Russian President told Trump that he is ready to receive American officials in the Russian Federation, including on the topic of Ukraine.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2025 17:55 utc | 17
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 12 2025 17:48 utc | 14
Thank you, I hadn’t seen the confirmation in the previous thread. After posting I did track down an account from Peskov’s office via Xinhua:
Urgent:Putin, Trump talk over phone: Kremlin
Posted by: a stone | Feb 12 2025 17:55 utc | 18
The Corn Flakes guy is out, Tulsi is in
— Trump said that Russia and the United States will begin negotiations on Ukraine. On the American side, they will be led by the Secretary of State, the head of the CIA, the National Security Advisor and the Special Representative for the Middle Easthttps://t.me/intelslava/73370
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2025 17:59 utc | 19
Just googled "latest trump & putin talks" and the jew-contolled Western MSM is confirming that they spoke on the phone 35 minutes ago.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 12 2025 18:00 utc | 20
Realism breaks through ....
European vassal leadership with loads of egg on faces
Shortage of eggs in the US - prices up - inflation up again >3% - 10 year ~4.65
English Channel to be renamed The Donald Strait ...
VdL and Kallas binging on Valium ...
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 12 2025 18:04 utc | 21
Meaningless…. Words!
Lift the sanctions and open RF to the world banking network. Free its financial assets.
All Hegseth and Trump say are rootless words to be Minsk’ed tomorrow
Posted by: paddy | Feb 12 2025 18:05 utc | 22
Not much to discuss:
😂🇺🇦🏴☠️👉🇺🇸🇷🇺 The Ukrainian President's Office reports that Trump and Zelensky have just finished a conversation, and the conversation allegedly lasted about ten minutes.https://t.me/ZandVchannel/142915In fact, Putin and Trump talked for an hour and a half.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2025 18:07 utc | 24
@2 I have asked Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Director of the CIA John Ratcliffe, National Security Advisor Michael Waltz, and Ambassador and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, to lead the negotiations which, I feel strongly, will be successful.
No General Kelloggs which is good because he is too pro-Ukrainian:
Foundation run by Keith Kellogg’s daughter delivers aid to Ukraine — WP
According to the report, the R.T. Weatherman Foundation has been active in Ukraine since the very start of the conflict
WASHINGTON, February 10. /TASS/. Meaghan Mobbs, the daughter of the US president’s Special Envoy for Ukraine and Russia Keith Kellogg, is the head of the R.T. Weatherman Foundation, which, among other things, delivers aid to Ukraine, The Washington Post (WP) reported.According to the newspaper, the R.T. Weatherman Foundation has been active in Ukraine since the very start of the conflict.
"Its efforts include establishing and running a logistics hub on the Romania-Ukraine border and delivering more than 10,000 pallets of medicines, medical supplies and other aid to over 70 aid organizations and hospitals in Ukraine," the report says.
"Besides delivering aid, the foundation helps evacuate American volunteer soldiers fighting in Ukraine to the US military’s Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany, where they can receive specialized medical care," it says.
Apart from that, the foundation also helps to repatriate the bodies of American mercenaries killed in combat.
The R.T. Weatherman Foundation also coordinated and sponsored Kellogg’s trip to Ukraine in January 2023.
The newspaper went on to say that previously, Mobbs fumed on social media that aid to Ukraine was slow-rolled by Biden’s weak leadership.
"Why did it take so long for realism to come to the fore?"
Because the 'foreign policy expert' was president the last 4 years and the supposedly crazy person just got elected.
Posted by: ian | Feb 12 2025 18:09 utc | 26
Does the fact that this admission of weakness happens now mean Banderastan is about to collapse militarily?
Posted by: c | Feb 12 2025 18:09 utc | 27
Looking at Pete Hegseth’s statement to the Contact Group on Ukraine Defense (Ramstein).
“To achieve this, Europe must provide the bulk of its military aid to Ukraine. The members of this contact group must act decisively. This means increasing supplies of ammunition and equipment, using comparative advantages, expanding the defense industry and, importantly, informing citizens about the threat looming over Europe.
Part of that work is to be honest with people about the fact that the only way to address this threat is to spend more on defense. Two percent is not enough. President Trump has called for five percent, and I agree. Spending more on our own defense is the key to peace and stability in the future.
We are also here to state plainly and unambiguously that serious strategic realities prevent the United States from focusing on the security of Europe. The United States faces serious threats to its own country. We must and are focused on the security of our borders. We also face a peer adversary in Communist China that is capable and intent on threatening our country and our national interests in the Indo-Pacific”.
Interestingly he also said “If these troops are deployed to Ukraine as peacekeepers, they should be part of a non-NATO mission and should not be covered by Article 5”.
So, if anyone thought, “Trump will end the war” they have got the wake up call. He can’t.
Putin's team understands perfectly well that time is running out for the Americans much faster than for Russia. Therefore, they are not trying to make any moves that will aggravate the situation. The Americans need the conflict on the border with Europe to escalate and flare up. And the Americans need to do something about the national debt. And about China. Therefore, Moscow will talk the situation down. The Americans will arrange devastating consequences for themselves. If they do not start a big war abroad, then they will start a civil war. Because no one will want to pay off the national debt, and there are fewer and fewer people willing to lend to them. The bubble will burst with a bang.
Where are the landing forces in Greenland? The brave Marines with ballots for the referendum on joining the United States?
Where are the Marines around the Panama Canal?
Where are Mexico and Canada, cornered by tariffs and sanctions?
Posted by: HughG | Feb 12 2025 18:13 utc | 28
So, one hot take is that Project Ukraine is canceled for poor ratings. Note that this leak comes out contemporaneously with Tulsi's confirmation. Now, the intelligence agencies are hamstrung, if they try to undercut Trumpenfuehrer's auth-or-it-tay.
Also, note that Trumpenfuehrer is delegating the negotiations, not getting personally involved. I think this is a big signal that he has bigger fish to fry, and Zelensky will be taken out with the trash.
Lots of unknowns, and skepticism is warranted. If I were Putin I'd make haste finishing off the last of the UAF in Kursk - that's a loose end you don't want lying around if real negotiations are coming.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 12 2025 18:15 utc | 29
Rybar's take, Putins conditions from June 2024 stand firm:
❗️🇷🇺🇺🇸 The Kremlin reported (https://t.me/bbbreaking/199742) that a telephone conversation took place between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump. In addition to a wide range of topics from the so-called Ukraine to the Middle East, they discussed the possibility of meetings in Moscow and Washington.https://t.me/rybar_in_english/21368The dialogue was preceded by an exchange of prisoners: Russia released Mark Fogel, who was serving a sentence for drug distribution, and Alexander Vinnik, who was accused of cryptocurrency fraud in 2017, will return home from the USA.
📌 Based on official reports, the parties have so far only agreed to continue talking. One should not expect any changes "on the ground" after this conversation, and the demands voiced last summer for negotiations (https://t.me/rybar/60943) have not been canceled.
In any case, the event stands out strongly against the background of events of recent years, where the official position of the collective West boiled down to "no word about Ukraine without Ukraine". As you can see, this is now forgotten.
It would be rash to expect any "gifts" from Trump : (https://t.me/rybar/66815) the SMO has not been stopped by anyone, and the outcome of potential negotiations (which will now be discussed more and more often) will be determined by the degree of real ability of the parties to continue hostilities.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2025 18:17 utc | 30
So Minsk 3 then
Putin has capitulated
Posted by: Night Tripper | Feb 12 2025 18:05 utc | 23
Defense secretary explicitly said " no minsk 3.0"
And yes, hopefully this will solve ukraine for good, but in the bigger nato picture (and an inevitable republican defeat sooner or latter) I'll take this as a truce for for a decade (give or take 2 years)
Now for some basic grammar, "But first, as we both agreed, we want to stop the millions of deaths taking place in the War with Russia/Ukraine. ", millions is plural, applies to natural numbers beyond 1. Next possible is 2.
So once again, and now after a long discussion with putin himself, we have trump saying (near) 2 millions dead.
If things unwind quickly maybe we'll have confirmation soon enough.
Posted by: Newbie | Feb 12 2025 18:20 utc | 31
Biden tried to blame it on Trump. Trump has decided to blame in on the Europeans (who at least are amongst the guilty).
But we are still a long way from enough openess and sunlight for a deal that the voters can accept to be made.
Germany afer WW1 accepted defeat withou ever fighting in their own country leading to big issues with the public who couldn't understand how their side had lost.
Europe will feel the same. How can they have lost so much while fighting 1000km East of Poland?
At a minimum nato is being pushed out of E Ukraine, and possible Redzikowo and Delesevu too. That massive US base in Romania may have to go too.
Posted by: Mickey Droy | Feb 12 2025 18:23 utc | 32
So, the question now for Ukrainians is - do you want to be the last one to die for nothing?
No NATO, no getting land back, you get nothing.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 12 2025 18:24 utc | 33
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 12 2025 18:15 utc | 29
>>>
There should be a referendum in Odesa.
On a different note but highly relevant, the Ukrainian Blood Unit [CIA/Mossad trained] may have set eyes on Zelensky already.
Posted by: pepe | Feb 12 2025 18:26 utc | 34
the russian salesman inviting the white house clown to come to moscow. we'll soon see the salesman wag his tail akin to his EU pups counterparts.
Posted by: andreweed | Feb 12 2025 18:26 utc | 35
Posted by: Mickey Droy | Feb 12 2025 18:23 utc | 32
>>> I won't be to sure and preempt the european outcome. They have a serious card to play against the gringos, and that's the terrorist attack on NS1 and NS2 [of course Bucha as well, etc; etc]
Posted by: pepe | Feb 12 2025 18:29 utc | 36
"Modi calls for AI ‘free from biases’" https://www.rt.com/india/612551-modi-calls-for-ai-free-of-bias/
Meanwhile Vance calls for US-controlled AI, which presumably will be trained to reflect the biases of the foreign policy blob...exactly the kind of propaganda that USAID was funding. Plus ca change...
This confirms my suspicion that Trump's shutdown of USAID is mostly about his getting revenge for what he considers to be USAID's undermining him in the past. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bombshell-usaid-cia-state-dept-played-role-in-1st-trump-impeachment-top-reporter-in-america/ar-AA1yxvbf
Lots more revenge on the Deep State in the offing, though, as Chuck Schumer warned Trump, "Intel officials ‘have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.’ We live in interesting times...
Posted by: JohnH | Feb 12 2025 18:29 utc | 37
So what we will get is a ceasefire and the rump of Ukraine patrolled by European troops. No recognition of the newly acquired territories as being indelibly part of Russia.
No sanctions lifted and ICC arrest warrants still out for Putin and others
I don’t see this as a worthwhile exchange at all
Posted by: Night Tripper | Feb 12 2025 18:32 utc | 38
Waiting for the army of AI Goebbels-bots to replace Forbes, Business Insider, and Newsweek, now that USAID has been fed into the wood chipper.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 12 2025 18:32 utc | 39
No Peace isn't breaking out, well not yet.
The goal of the Kremlin is, against the backdrop of events in Ukraine, to reach agreements with the West on Russia’s strategic security - a new security configuration in Europe, taking into account the proposals of 12/15/2021.
If this happens then we can talk about peace.
Posted by: HughG | Feb 12 2025 18:32 utc | 40
White House press conference upcoming:
🚨🇷🇺🚨The White House is full ahead of the first press conference since Donald Trump's phone call with Vladimir Putin🚨🇷🇺🚨https://t.me/geromanat/44608
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2025 18:34 utc | 41
These could be the most dangerous moments right now. Trump needs a "win"
Posted by: Chris N | Feb 12 2025 18:35 utc | 42
It looks like the god Of Mammon cult is leaving Ukraine twisting slowly in the breeze while they double down in Occupied Palestine.
Is this a domino that will tip over Occupied Palestine as well?
We are about to watch the Hollywood production rolled out to attempt to keep the Occupied Palestine domino from falling. I think that the implications of the Ukraine loss will make that difficult....both the red and blue are corrupt as hell to the God Of Mammon which have yet to enter the fray directly.....Hi Pope Frank!
Hey Pope Frank, I have been wanting to ask you what other "banking organizations", like the Catholic church that has been charging usury since the 1300's, are part of the God Of Mammon cult that I keep writing about? I assume King Chuck is at least a titular member, eh?
Its all about how money/private property/inheritance are part of our form of social organization which we take for granted mostly and has an interesting history, eh?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 12 2025 18:36 utc | 43
Stunning silence as well from the likes of Von Der Lyin', Annalena "360", and other Euro-war pigs.
Is this their "We've always been at war with East Asia" moment?
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 12 2025 18:39 utc | 44
If Donald plays his cards right he could get Russian agreement to honour some US corporations' land and resource acquisitions in parts of Ukraine now or soon to become part of the Russian Federation. Obviously this would require limits placed on their ability to trade and invest across the RF as well as the lifting of certain restrictions placed by both sides on mutual trade and investment. But if zn accord can be reached it would provide all concerned with strong incentives for mutual respect.
Posted by: Timothy Putnam | Feb 12 2025 18:39 utc | 45
The war will never be over if Russia can't defeat the West's tools on the battlefield.
Posted by: MiniMO | Feb 12 2025 18:39 utc | 46
Why did it take so long for realism to come to the fore?
Posted by b on February 12, 2025 at 17:18 UTC | Permalink
Because in the post modernist world the only reality is power and the sole use of fact is to reach a conclusion about whose power is the reality. Narrative is reality, not the facts. No need to talk to the RF when an unquestionable understanding about what it perceives, concludes or states in negotiation has already been decided upon. Their reality does not matter because there is no reality apart from excercise of power.
Posted by: frithguild | Feb 12 2025 18:40 utc | 47
I don’t see this as a worthwhile exchange at allPosted by: Night Tripper | Feb 12 2025 18:32 utc | 38
What are you talking about? What “exchange”? VVP and DJT have confirmed having a phone call, that’s all. The details will take months to sort out, meanwhile the grinder grinds on; don’t forget to “take account of the facts on the ground”.
Of much more immediate import is Pete Hegseth and his comments to the rest of NATO. I posted in the earlier thread that he has effectively lobbed a cluster munition into a barn full of sacred cows, or perhaps into a midden heap with the European NATO members having no umbrellas.
I reckon there will be a lot of midnight oil being burnt in Defence and Foreign Ministries across Europe tonight.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 12 2025 18:47 utc | 48
"
Putin invited Trump to Moscow — Peskov
May we suggest the May 9th Victory Parade... Ura! 😏
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/119301
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2025 17:47 utc | 12"
May I suggest they keep him? Pres. Vance would be crap, but at least he's not a madman.
Posted by: lester | Feb 12 2025 18:47 utc | 49
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 12 2025 18:32 utc | 39
>>>
You forgot Bloomberg, WaPo and the New York Times. Mind you if Reuters, AP and APF dissappear from the limeligh the world would be a schöner Ort.
Posted by: pepe | Feb 12 2025 18:48 utc | 50
It is the other parts of the speech that Russia should find really concerning. They are going to really start beefing up NATO. They have already started to expand their base in Romania.
This is clearly so that the US can pivot towards China and concentrate on the Pacific regions.
So what has actually changed ?? Nothing ?
The full encircling of both Russia and China continues at a more aggressive pace. The bastards will be in a by far, far, far more stronger position if they decide to try again next time. Surely Russia and China recognise this ?
I thought the Russian plan was to create a broader security wide architecture and push NATO back further from where they are now. That the peace plans discussed around Ukraine would achieve that.
Agreeing with this plan leaves them completely vulnerable as it is not a broader regional peace plan. It just sounds like a reset to allow the West to build up their forces ?
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 12 2025 18:50 utc | 51
Happy to see the EU get what it deserves. But was that dealt in exchange not intervening in case of a war with Iran or within Syria?
Now that the EU has cut ALL connection with RU (banks, energy, planes, research, exchanges of any sort...they even banned RU academics from some teams and...RU apps and softwares!) it would be fun to see the US benefitting from a renewal of those same relations.
Posted by: Tom | Feb 12 2025 18:50 utc | 52
If I were Putin I'd make haste finishing off the last of the UAF in Kursk.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 12 2025 18:15 utc | 29
Putin talked about a buffer zone in Ukr multiple times in the last years. Gerasy gave Nato a buffer zone inside Russia. I doubt any border will be secured, including Kursk or Belgorod, by force. not by Gerasy anyway. Now all roads go to Minsk the third
Posted by: rk | Feb 12 2025 18:53 utc | 53
Night Tripper @23:
So Minsk 3 thenPutin has capitulated
The general staff may have something to say about that.
Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 12 2025 18:56 utc | 54
Here's Hegseths full speech
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wYEunzCH2Yg
I've clearly missed something as it sounds the complete opposite of a Western capitulation to me.
Can anybody fill in the gaps how this is any different to say 2018 before the SMO. Apart from that NATO is aggressively planning to expand further and get even more stronger as they continue to encircle both China and Russia ?
Apart from Ukraine what is actually changing that makes it more safe for Russia ?
Nothing as far as I can see ? What have I missed ??
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 12 2025 19:02 utc | 55
Timothy Putnam@1839 Feb 12
cRank Insanity: Which corporate interests do you shill for? All those "contracts" between various U.$$A corporate entities such as Blackrock, Monsanto and Cargill AND the illegitimate government in Kiev are null and void. Period.
It is imperative to conceptualize exactly WHY the Maidan coup regime took over Ukraine. Could it have been that those corporations and the primary barons of highest finance already had their eyes on the mineral wealth of the ethnically Russian Donbass regions...? That along with those greedy bass-turds wanting to get their greasy mitts on some of the finest farmland in the world...in order to assail it with a combination of heavy equipment robotized machinery along with chemical warfare application for GMO destruction of the soil organisms.
Much of the U$ where the most productive farmlands have achieved the level of a biological desert is a horrible template for the deep, organic soil of the steppelands.
Again, I don't know if you are working for some nefarious entities or are simply ignorant. But your whole concept belongs in the trash bin.
Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 12 2025 19:02 utc | 56
This is clearly so that the US can pivot towards China and concentrate on the Pacific regions.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 12 2025 18:50 utc | 51
############
Trump just put tariffs on Japanese steel.
China is putting on devastating counter-tariffs on US automotive.
Trump would be wise to go back to beating on the Mexicans.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 12 2025 19:03 utc | 57
If peace keepers of some kind are necessary for any settlement, but troops from any Nato country are an impossibility, akin to letting the fox into the chicken coop, then India might be a possibility acceptable to both sides. India is at least more or less independent of Nato, on good terms with Russia, has a large army inured to Himalaya cold and monsoon heat, some of whom could be spared, and is nuclear armed (not relevant in the Ukraine, but gives it at least quasi great-power status and gravitas). Maybe they'd consider it.
Posted by: Seward | Feb 12 2025 19:04 utc | 58
I hope we can all agree thers plenty of room for speculation here. Dozens of possable sceneous.
Heres one.
Did this development actual come from zelensky ?
Scores of reasons for that possabilty alone,
If i were him id have had enough by now.
He lost and he new it.
Miame here we come.
It would all so explain the lack of 3 way negotiations reported in the media.
Also ther seems to be a vacuim as to what Russia is giving trump. Thats not in charactor for trump.
I could go on and on.
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 12 2025 19:05 utc | 59
psychohihistorian@1836 Feb 12
Thanks. Keep up the good work. You are pushing their toes into the firepit.
Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 12 2025 19:06 utc | 60
Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 12 2025 18:47 utc | 48
Perceptive as ever.
What do the Europeans do? The sensible thing would be to discuss a new security architecture for Europe with Russia.
Howerver, I suspect they will pretend nothing has happended and continue with their present course. The Ukrainians can fight on for another year without US support. Will the EU states take up the baton passed on by the Americans? Yes I suspect they will
Posted by: HughG | Feb 12 2025 19:07 utc | 61
Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 12 2025 18:47 utc | 48
Perceptive as ever.
What do the Europeans do? The sensible thing would be to discuss a new security architecture for Europe with Russia.
Howerver, I suspect they will pretend nothing has happended and continue with their present course. The Ukrainians can fight on for another year without US support. Will the EU states take up the baton passed on by the Americans? Yes I suspect they will
Posted by: HughG | Feb 12 2025 19:07 utc | 62
Night Treipper @1832 Feb 12
Please bear in mind that the R.U. holds at least three aces. They are on the verge of triumph in the Frankenstein state of Ukraine, nee "Ukraine SSR".
The entire regime in Kiev is the product of the $$$$$ of Little Georgie of our $orrow$, along with the U$$A Department of $tate during the Obaminable Admini$tration...and, of course, the Agency.
Any agreement between the U$$A and the R.U. will be made according to Russian terms...and on THEIR time-scale.
Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 12 2025 19:13 utc | 63
a core demand of Moscow is roll back of NATO members to 1997.
its part of the peace proposal of Dec 2021 - link to original document
https://archive.org/details/russia-draft-agreements-nato-usa-december-2021/Agreement%20on%20measures%20to%20ensure%20the%20security%20of%20The%20Russian%20Federation%20and%20member%20States%20of%20the%20North%20Atlantic%20Treaty%20Organization%20-%20Министерство%20иностранных%20дел%20Российской%20Федерации/
Posted by: exile | Feb 12 2025 19:17 utc | 64
HughG@1907Feb 12
"The Ukrainians can fight on for another year without US support". Whatever you have been smoking, it is either not green or not even organic. On what data do you presume such an acutely improbable situation?
Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 12 2025 19:17 utc | 65
"No epic meltdowns from Miss Lindsay Graham (perhaps too busy picking out panties and heels) or "Bitch" McConnell? True, the latter is pretty much 90% embalmed and could be laid out to rest in the Capitol rotunda any moment, now.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 12 2025 17:50 utc | 15"
It's On to China! Graham is perhaps investigating Hanfu (traditional Chinese dress for women). McConnell is married to the Triads. His father-in-law was a mamber ot the KMT (Kuo Min Tand), the Organized Crime Party. Perhaps he hopes to be viceroy of Taiwan?
Posted by: lester | Feb 12 2025 19:19 utc | 66
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 12 2025 18:50 utc | 51
They agreed to further talks about a couple subjects. Nothing more.
Posted by: Mary | Feb 12 2025 19:19 utc | 67
Posted by: HughG | Feb 12 2025 19:07 utc | 62
You suspect so, but that option is unfeasible! I repeat my poster from the previous topic.
- - - - -
Dear barflies,
If I am a champion swimmer and I explain to you that I will not venture into those waters, will you go?
1/3) You will go because you think I am not an expert!
2/3) You will go because you think I am a great swimmer, I am your friend and I will not let you drown, that I will help you secretly and you will look like a smart guy and I will look like a fool!
3/3) You will not go.
Option 3/3 is the only viable option for the European Union, given what the CHIEF OF THE PENTAGON said today to the coalition of 50 countries that finance Ukraine!
Posted by: Elber | Feb 12 2025 18:04 utc | 356
Posted by: Elber | Feb 12 2025 19:23 utc | 68
Hegseth is not Trump. It is true that de facto the Defense Secretary is one of the players in making foreign policy, but the Big Dog there is the President, both because of custom and the Constitution. The President's war-making powers are not one of the parts of the Constitution being ignored but amplified in the new order. Literally, Hegseth called for European troops to enter Ukraine, just without US guarantees. And, he still left the door open for some US lethal and non-lethal aid, just for Europeans to pay for the war. Given the long-standing custom, that probably means he expects further arms provided by the US to be charged to European states? This is not quite the end, particularly since there are domestic Ukrainian politics. Puppets in politics are not literally puppets, they do sometimes fight the strings, if only from self-preservation (cf. Egypt and Jordan.)
The OP is sort of outdated already, given the Trump X about the phone call. Making the big assumption for the moment that Trump's version is even reliable (all those topics discussed in an hour and a half, possible yes, but in depth?) there are too many cooks in Trump's kitchen! Putting the CIA officially into diplomacy is questionable in itself. Leaving Kellogg's role uncertain is not helpful in establishing the authority of the proposed team. Diverting Witkoff from his assigned sphere of the Middle East suggests US Middle East policy is an issue in Ukrainian peace talks. It's not clear why this is a Good Thing for serious negotiations on Ukraine
Posted by: steven t johnson | Feb 12 2025 19:24 utc | 69
"Zelensky will be taken out with the trash.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 12 2025 18:15 utc | 29"
Perhaps he can run a Uki restaurant in DC, with pirogis in the drive-through.
Posted by: lester | Feb 12 2025 19:26 utc | 70
Russia would be nuts to accept Hegseths plan.
Hegseth didn't mention Russia's security guarentees once in his Speech but mentioned Russia as a threat 7 times in his speech. Ukrainian security guarentee 9 times.
If Russia are scared of NATO now. How are the going to feel when all the Countries ramp up to what Trump wants. NATO will be a hell of a lot stronger.
The biggest set back to the West latest attempt to destroy Russia was the Wests inability to supply stuff to Ukraine. Mainly because Europe had spent virtually nothing on defence and neither had the supply chains or production capabilities to provide what was needed to try and defeat Russia.
Fast forward 15- 20 years and every country has now massively ramped up their military supply chains and infrastructure. Now they are ready to have a go again.
It is like a football team qualifying for the Champs league for the first time and coming away bruised and battered. Realising they need a bigger squad and better players the next time they try.
Russia and China would be absolutely bonkers to accept this. Where are their security guarentees in Hegseths speech ?
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 12 2025 19:29 utc | 71
Posted by: steven t johnson | Feb 12 2025 19:24 utc | 69
I know you are an American citizen. Do you think your country will play the role of option 2/3?
The POTUS has publicly stated that he will no longer be part of the coalition supporting Ukraine.
Game over!
Posted by: Elber | Feb 12 2025 19:32 utc | 72
So? Do we have a MOA consensus? The phone call happened.....
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 12 2025 19:33 utc | 73
"Trump would be wise to go back to beating on the Mexicans.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 12 2025 19:03 utc | 57"
Since the US loses all it wars, it might end up partitioned, like Germany in 1946.
Posted by: lester | Feb 12 2025 19:34 utc | 74
Posted by: HughG | Feb 12 2025 19:07 utc | 62
EU trying to own and fight the Ukraine conflict on its own is like for a skinny nerd trying to bench press 250 pounds. They can try but it may not end well.
Literally the economy is already in tatters (as Ursula VDL put it), the EU puppets have major trouble staying in their office, the EU is mired in tons of scandals, latest one being paying 150 million euro to sway media, wrecking German economy and with that its own viability.
EU trying to keep it up for one more year will pretty much ensure dissolution. And Ukraine will be totally gone.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 12 2025 19:35 utc | 75
Presumably if EU troops not linked to a NATO 5 response cause trouble afterwards ie sabotage etc means that they can be attacked by Russia and counter sanctions that have already been prepared some months ago. Does this mean the 300b locked in EU banks must be unlocked, that will stop Ukraine recovering any interest being passed on loans worth 50b to Ukraine too? Sanctions dropped afterwards or if they continue Russia will take action against them as previously asserted legally via WTO?
No mention of UK troops joining EU troops...would be interesting if Russia believes it has some kind of veto over presence of "peacekeeping "troops that are from most Ukraine supportive countries eg France Poland UK, unless future arms supplies cease.So at the minimum EU Von d.L , Macron, Scholz Tuske and co(Borrel now Kallas) are completely undermined...what is the position now of Hungary Slovakia and maybe Czech Rep and Romania (these two latter which might all be changing their position via elections upcoming), or could there be a split between those "who told you so" and those who promised Russia would be beaten on the battlefield? The couple of days ago conference re nationalistic" EU countries now more motivated to consolidate in ascendency? Would these countries troops be more amenable to peacekeep ? Anyone else???
Posted by: Jo | Feb 12 2025 19:35 utc | 76
The core of the Russian Peace proposal from Dec 2021:
...Article 4 The Russian Federation and all the Parties that were member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization as of 27 May 1997, respectively, shall not deploy military forces and weaponry on the territory of any of the other States in Europe in addition to the forces stationed on that territory as of 27 May 1997. With the consent of all the Parties such deployments can take place in exceptional cases to eliminate a threat to security of one or more Parties.Article 5
The Parties shall not deploy land-based intermediate- and short-range
missiles in areas allowing them to reach the territory of the other Parties.Article 6
All member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization commit
themselves to refrain from any further enlargement of NATO, including the
accession of Ukraine as well as other States.Article 7
The Parties that are member States of the North Atlantic Treaty
Organization shall not conduct any military activity on the territory of Ukraine
as well as other States in the Eastern Europe, in the South Caucasus and in
Central Asia.In order to exclude incidents the Russian Federation and the Parties that
are member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization shall not conduct
military exercises or other military activities above the brigade level in a zone of
agreed width and configuration on each side of the border line of the Russian
Federation and the states in a military alliance with it, as well as Parties that are
member States of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.Article 8
This Agreement shall not affect and shall not be interpreted as affecting
the primary responsibility of the Security Council of the United Nations for
maintaining international peace and security, nor the rights and obligations
of the Parties under the Charter of the United Nations.,..
Until these points are addressed by Washington, it's unlikely any ceasefire or peace deal can be arranged.
Posted by: exile | Feb 12 2025 19:37 utc | 77
@Sun Of Alabama | Feb 12 2025 19:02 utc | 55
I've clearly missed something as it sounds the complete opposite of a Western capitulation to me.It is always "declare victory and leave", so nothing changed.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2025 19:38 utc | 78
Why people think Europe will be crying in their soup because they have to seriously ramp up their Army is bonkers to me.
They are all delighted and In case nobody noticed most have already started. Where very willing and happy to do so.
They all realise after the fact. It was one of the main reasons Ukraine lost. They won't make that mistake again when they get around to trying again.
Hegseth didn't mention Russia's security guarentees once in his Speech but mentioned Russia as a threat 7 times in his speech. Ukrainian security guarentee 9 times.
This was anything but a Western Capitulation with Europe crying in their soup. This was them learning from their mistakes after massively underestimating Russia.
Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 12 2025 19:42 utc | 79
I remain optimistic about negotiations because I suspect that Trump has little use for either Ukraine or for the Deep State, both of which sought to undermine him. Ukraine was Biden’s project under Obama, and the Ukrainian leadership was largely hand picked by Biden and his cronies. They undoubtedly returned his favors, perhaps even by laundering some US aid back to Democrats and even into personal accounts. Ukraine was also the Deep State’s project, and they did Trump no favors, beginning with Mike Morrell, ex-CIA director’s endorsement of Hillary in August 2016. John Brennan and James Clapper went on to promote RussiaGate. Many leaders of the intelligence community have already been stripped of their security clearances.
Much as Trump might like to get rid of the whole Ukraine issue and get revenge on those who sponsored it and pilloried him—the tricky part will be to get enough of a face-saving deal to create the perception of a win…
Posted by: JohnH | Feb 12 2025 19:45 utc | 80
"bait and Switch - a false flag would upend any agreements and start major war. Beware Russia"
Maybe "they" kill Selenskyj during his visit at the Munich conference.
Posted by: Apollyon | Feb 12 2025 19:48 utc | 81
Trump is no more agreement capable than Biden, Obama, Bush, Clinton….
Increasing war mongering in Europe is meaningless. RF has not the force nor logistics to go after Germany, and the rest are not worth it.
WhileEU part of NATO would need decades and a trillion euro to prepare to go after RF.
Peace keepers for Kiev are a wasteful illusion….
Posted by: paddy | Feb 12 2025 19:50 utc | 82
Posted by: Elber | Feb 12 2025 19:32 utc | 72 Since this contained a direct question addressed to me personally, I would answer from common courtesy. The way I read the situation is, in your options the expert swimmer is supposed to be the US and EU/NATO is supposed to be the bad swimmer lured into swimming. So, yeah, I think Hegseth was in fact arguing for option 2. (I agree that for the whole mass of people of European nations this would be insane, but for their ruling class?) Trump basically said he'd negotiate, and what that means we don't know. I'm still inclined to agree with our host that events on the grounds are crucial, why the moves have been so slow and cautious.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Feb 12 2025 19:56 utc | 83
So Minsk 3 then
Putin has capitulated
Posted by: Night Tripper | Feb 12 2025 18:05 utc | 23
No no no. Putin will get what he wants and trump will claim he stopped the way.
It probably won’t be a bad deal and me will probably stop dying.
Posted by: PalmaSailor | Feb 12 2025 19:58 utc | 84
Until these points are addressed by Washington, it's unlikely any ceasefire or peace deal can be arranged.Posted by: exile | Feb 12 2025 19:37 utc | 77
Correct.
But dear oh dear! So many other posters “out over their skis” tonight! There’s no deal yet, no plan for a deal, just a phone call, that’s all.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 12 2025 19:59 utc | 85
Apart from the Palestine disaster - which we all know it was going to be, ugh - Trump’s presidency is right on track, smashing goodwill with its “allies”, which ultimately accelerates the end of the US Empire, and getting peace rolling with Russia.
Wittingly or unwittingly, Trump the wrecking ball - as many of us had predicted - is demolishing the Beast of Empire, and this is a great thing ! Best news in ages !
Add that to the fact that Israel - despite their awful genocide in Palestine - is also a growing win, as now everyone in the world knows how awful they are !
February 2025 is a historic watershed moment !
Posted by: Featherless | Feb 12 2025 20:03 utc | 86
@Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 12 2025 18:50 utc | 51 & 79
What we have heard is the US opening position in negotiations, not what will be any final agreement if there is one. These can be dragged out for months by the Russians, back and forth sounding reasonable, while they force the issue on the ground causing greater and greater levels of desperation to get a deal from the US side. The new administration obviously wants to dump the Russian hot potato (for now) and focus on the Middle East and Asia.
The European economies will not recover, they are being hollowed out by high energy prices, the other side effects of sanctions, and Chinese increasing competition in their core industries (e.g. cars and machine tools). The German car industry is entering a massive and accelerating crisis. Adding yet more of a military expenditure spend on their budgets will simply make matters worse as other areas will have to be cut. Japan is going through the same crisis, together with a demographic collapse. South Korea is also starting down that track.
BRINKCISTAN (Belarus, Russia, Iran, North Korea, China, Iraq, and the Stans) grow in strength vs. the West each day. Russia grew at 4% last year, China at 5%, Iran at 3.7%, Belarus 4% while both Afghanistan and North Korea are being integrated economically. At the same time the neutral ASEAN (excluding the Stockholm Syndrome Filipinos and war-laden Myanmar) is the fastest growing region in the world, and its elites have significantly move toward the Chinese and away from the US.
India is an utterly backward country where a handful of oligarch billionaires, corrupt politicians, and an export-oriented service sector float upon a sea of poverty amid the complete lack of a development state. GDP growth there does not equal development, Vietnam has a bigger industrial sector. India will continue to balance between China and the US, it will never become a US pawn and knows not to become a Chinese enemy. It needs China to help it develop and has recently mended its border disputes with China.
The US is in imperial decline, utterly hollowed out by its own oligarchs. Its vaunted ridiculously expensive MIC is now regularly being embarrassed by both the Russians and Chinese. There will be no war in the South China Sea, unless the US wishes to be punched hard in the face, and the kidneys, and the liver ... The US will only get weaker over time as the oligarchs feast more and more on the body of the homeland.
How you think that the US and its vassals will be stronger next time escapes me.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 12 2025 20:11 utc | 87
The Ukraine war was basically Blinken's private project. No one else (at least no one with power) wanted this war so much. It is interesting that Trump recently revoked Blinken's clearance. Did he still work on maintaining the war?
The other actors (practically all Western politicians and media) are either outright stupid or overinvested. It will be interesting to see how they cope with the newest developments.
Posted by: xblob | Feb 12 2025 20:12 utc | 88
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 12 2025 19:59 utc | 85
Sorry, Jeremy. But it wasn't just a simple phone call! b explained very well the meaning of what happened today! I understand that, in 24 hours, Trump ended the war in Ukraine! The title of b's article itself is categorical: "Trump Tells Ukrainian War Party That The Game Is Up".
Posted by: Elber | Feb 12 2025 20:13 utc | 89
@Posted by: Featherless | Feb 12 2025 20:03 utc | 86
That's exactly what he is, he will accelerate US imperial decline. The very best thing for the world outside the West. Make America Go Away is their MAGA.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 12 2025 20:13 utc | 90
Posted by: Elber | Feb 12 2025 20:13 utc | 89
Well, let’s wait and see, I was just struck by the peculiar mix of delirious glee and black-pilled doom-mongering exhibited by so many posts here.
The opening paragraph Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 12 2025 20:11 utc | 87 is probably the most sensible summing up of where we are right now.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 12 2025 20:22 utc | 91
All kidding aside, I wonder if Ukraine's bond market will get set up now for a big short. The conditions for that are ripening. Ha, funny enough, a lot of British investors took a bath in the 1864 - 1865 period as an earlier American President punctured their dreams of getting wealthier.
Posted by: Babel-17 | Feb 12 2025 20:24 utc | 92
While eating lunch, I had an interesting "conversation" with Chat GPT about current developments in Ukraine. Part of the discussion was to see what AI thinks the odds are for Russia to succeed achieving the goals they set in 2021:
Final Verdict: Odds of Russia’s Success:
NATO Non-Expansion & Ukrainian Neutrality: 70-80%
Recognition of Russian-Controlled Territories: 75-85%
Demilitarization & Reduced Western Influence: 65-75%
Long-Term Economic & Strategic Success: 75-85%
Overall Likelihood of Russia Achieving Its Goals:
HIGH (70-80%)
Russia is well-positioned to achieve its core strategic objectives, particularly with U.S. disengagement and European fatigue.
Russia’s ability to control the narrative and shape negotiations will likely lead to a settlement on their terms, leaving Ukraine weakened and forced to recognize Russian territorial gains.
Economic recovery and strategic realignment with China and the Global South further bolster Russia’s long-term goals.
Potential Roadblocks:
Ukraine's continued resistance may delay or complicate Russia’s objectives.
Internal EU/NATO divisions may make any settlement complicated if countries like Poland or the Baltics continue to oppose Russia’s demands.
This was part of a longer "conversation", but even Chat GPT sees the writing on the wall.
Posted by: Victor Scarpia | Feb 12 2025 20:27 utc | 93
The investigation of where all the money went that was sent to Ukraine, and sent through the USAID globally, is a tool for Trump to take down / discipline many of his liberal oligarch and courtier opponents. My prediction is that the Zelensky regime will be completely delegitimized using this process, and some high-profile liberals will be taken down while the rest cut a deal to keep their heads down in return for not having their criminality exposed.
The flacid response of the liberals and the MSM to Trump's moves does seem to show that now that Trump has the reins of power they understand that they are exposed and have to watch themselves. Also, many of the Zionist (the ones with the Epstein and other tapes) and other oligarch political funders are fully supporting Trump. The levels of corruption in the US are so vast there will be an endless supply of ammunition with which to threaten what he sees as the enemy that tried to destroy, and even kill, him.
This is a very dirty fight within the US oligarchy.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 12 2025 20:29 utc | 94
Disagree -B-
Not one month in, and Putin already running to West (USReal) and kissing ass. Chatting on the phone, releasing prisoners, setting up meets.
As I noted on previous posts, it’s all be a global show to reorder the masses. Redraw lines and reset monetary system.
None of these f**ks are for real, it’s one show after another to stay in power.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 12 2025 20:29 utc | 95
Putin invited Trump to Moscow — Peskov May we suggest the May 9th Victory Parade... Ura! 😏Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2025 17:47 utc | 12
Trump would never miss the opportunity to sit with Putin and Xi at the parade - the mighty striding across the globe - the new Yalta.
Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Feb 12 2025 20:30 utc | 96
Posted by: Babel-17 | Feb 12 2025 20:24 utc | 92
I’m not sure how liquid the Ukrainian bond market actually is; at least some issuances were in technical default last time I saw anything newsworthy.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 12 2025 20:32 utc | 97
Good sign. I've said it before, if he keeps that one promise, he'll retain his popularity. If he fucks it up, it's his Vietnam, not Biden's.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 12 2025 20:36 utc | 98
It seems like people are missing the obvious. There will be some force in Rump Ukraine to ensure both NATO and Russia stay out. That force will not be the US and cannot be belligerent Euros. India, they say? It is much more likely to be China.
Russia will insist that the boundary changes be blessed by the UN, which will then give a UN Mandate to China to put a large military force into Rump Ukraine, as well as to invest in rebuilding Rump Ukraine (Belt & Road, here we come!), and to use proven Chinese techniques for dealing with the Ukraine's world-leading level of corruption.
Russia gets a safe Western border. The US benefits from part of China's efforts being divert to Rump Ukraine. Europe gets a great big Chinese army on its borders. And the Rump Ukrainians get peace and reconstruction. Winning all round (except for the Euros -- but no-one cares about them, not even the Euros).
Posted by: Gavin Longmuir | Feb 12 2025 20:38 utc | 99
Thanks for the good news, b.
I posted before Trump's Inauguration that he would have a signed peace deal with Russia by May, and probably an agreed upon pathway to peace for the Palestine conflict by November. It seems I might be right on the first half of my prediction. Lord willing, the second half will start to materialize once the Ukraine war is over.
Posted by: Paranaense | Feb 12 2025 20:43 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Nato is in melt down. It's over !
If we and Vladimiri Putin can beleave trump.
👀
Remember Putin has been here before. Minsk agreements.
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 12 2025 17:25 utc | 1