Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 28, 2025
The Guessing Game Over Trump’s Real Aims In Ukraine

The guessing game about President Donald Trump's real position on peace in Ukraine continues.

Some commentators, including yours truly, think that Trump has blown it by becoming too committed to Ukraine. Others believe that Trump is deceiving the public while working on peace in the backroom. 

The last two blog post were part of the guessing game:

To recap the first piece:

Neither approach one might think Trump is taking – to use a Ukraine resource deal to keep the U.S. in Ukraine and the war going, or to use the Ukraine resource deal to finally break with Ukraine – is consistent with a realistic assessment of the facts on the ground. At least not if the aim of the game is to make peace.

The conclusion for me is that there is no Trump plan at all to make peace in Ukraine.

and the second:

By pressing for the agreement, instead of taking the Russian offer for access to minerals, Trump has committed himself to continue the war in Ukraine.

It will lead to the failure of his peace initiative.

The war Ukraine is now destined to become Trump's Vietnam.

Yves Smith at Naked Capitalism is supportive of my last take. Citing a recent talk between Judge Napolitano and Col. Douglas MacGregor she writes:

This segment confirms what yours truly had warned about, yet quite a few members of the commentariat seem unwilling to accept: that the Ukraine minerals deal, if consummated, will commit the US to involvement in and therefore support of Ukraine.

Put it another way, there’s no value to this arrangement, and high embarrassment to Trump, if peace negotiations fail (perhaps more accurately, fail even to get started).

During that segment Napolitano presented a quote from Trump:

Trump: President Zelensky’s coming to sign the deal, and it’s a great thing. It’s a great deal for Ukraine too because get us over there, we’re going to be working over there, we’ll be on the land, and that way, it’s sort of automatic security, because nobody is going to be messing around with our people while when we’re there. And so we’ll be there in that way. But Europe will be watching it very closely. I know that UK has said and France has said that they want to put, they volunteered to put so-called peacekeepers on the ground. And I think that’s a good thing.

Napolitano as well as Macgregor dislike Trump's position:

Napolitano: You know, we both respect him and applaud his willingness to talk with the Russians. But statements like that betray either gross ignorance or very very bad intel. Your thoughts, Colonel..

Macgregor: No, I think that’s a polite way to put it. To be frank, President Trump needs to get out of this notion of putting anybody in Ukraine who’s not Ukrainian. And stay away from it. I heard this and I was genuinely disappointed, because there’s been a gross misinterpretation. …

Others, however, reject the pessimistic interpretation.

Gilbert Doctorow comments on the Trump press conference with the British Premier Starmer:

Even some of the most astute and worldly-wise commentators on Trump in alternative media underappreciate him and persist in seeing him as a buffoon whose inconsistencies and contradictions in his public statements from one day to another are convincing proof that he cannot see an initiative through to successful conclusion. This is precisely what I saw and heard earlier today when listening to the ‘Judging Freedom’ interview with Colonel Larry Wilkerson, whom I otherwise greatly respect for his observations on U.S. relations with Israel or on the battlefield situation in the Russia-Ukraine war.

No, this fellow Trump is a master at deception. Today’s press conference with Keith Starmer was proof positive that the vague, nonspecific notion of America back-stopping the European peace keepers in Ukraine is, strictly speaking, a tactic to shut up the Europeans while Washington puts together a mutually acceptable end-game solution with Moscow that it imposes on Ukraine and Europe at the appropriate moment.

Wilkerson's remarks (@4min) as referred to by Doctorow:

Napolitano: Does [Trump] not understand Vladimir Putin's mentality?

Wilkerson: Apparently not. These are very unwise remarks as a matter of fact because he's compromising his own ability to to negotiate a decent deal. It's just nonsense and it's increasing nonsense if he keeps talking that way. That's my problem with Donald Trump: he solves a problem at least preliminarily and then he moves on and screws the problem he solved himself with his mouth. I don't know how you do diplomacy that way.

Prof. John Mearsheimer does not believe that (@14min):

I think when you look at the administration and you look at what is going on in the foreign policy realm you have to distinguish between what is happening behind closed doors, the actual decision-making process, and what is happening out in public.

Let us start with regard to what is happening behind closed doors:

Donald Trump and everybody at the top of his administration knows full well what the Russian demands are and the fact that Trump has said and others have said that a deal can be worked out means that we know what those demands are and we're going to meet those demands period end of story. And this includes this crazy idea of peacekeepers and security guarantees and so forth and so on. Putin has made it unequivocally clear that that is unacceptable and Trump has de facto accepted that now. That's the private discourse that takes place behind closed doors.

Then there's the public debate and the public debate is sort of a wild and crazy one in large part because Trump is free to say whatever he wants and because he likes to pontificate on a daily basis and he doesn't pay much attention to facts and he's not very careful with his language. We end up in all these debates about what he really means and is he contradicting himself and so forth and so on.

I've got to the point where I just don't pay that much attention to what he says in public. The question is what are they saying in private and I believe in private they know what has to be said. They have already said it at least once to the Russians and now the details have to be worked out.

I hope that Doctorow and Mearsheimer are more correct than Yves Smith, myself, Macgregor and Wilkerson. That the public play we see and hear is just a facade for a serious policy behind it.

I fear however, like Wilkerson does, that too much public talk, even if not meant seriously, has its own way to become reality.

But on a positive side we can see that Trump is getting the (European) ducks into a row.

President Macron of France as well as Prime Minister Starmer of Britain have failed to get U.S. backing for European forces in Ukraine. The warmongering and incompetent European Unions High Representative for Foreign Affairs Kaja Kallas came to Washington to be immediately dismissed. Her meeting with Secretary of State Marco Rubio was scuppered over 'scheduling issues'. (Rumor has it that Kallas had screamed 'appeasement' at Secretary of Defense Hegseth during the recent Munich Security Conference.)

President Putin's prediction that the Europeans will eventually be "at Trump’s feet wagging their tails" has become true:

"Trump, given his personality, his firmness, will establish order fairly quickly. And all of them, quickly, you will see, stand at the master’s feet, wagging their tails tenderly," he said in an interview with VGTRK journalist Pavel Zarubin.

They fall into line with whatever plans Trump might have.

The most difficult remaining barrier to peace in Ukraine is its president Zelenski. He has the most to lose from peace talks over Ukraine. Later today Trump will make him sign the rather worthless 'mineral deal'. But is that enough to put and keep him in line?

And what are the next steps is Trump willing to take? Russia will not allow for a ceasefire along the current lines but wants the big strategic package – an indivisible security structure in Europe – all in one go.

Is Trump really willing and capable enough to deliver on that?

Comments

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 28 2025 18:44 utc | 99
Yeah yeah…Zelenskyy is Jewish. But you know what and who I mean.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 28 2025 18:44 utc | 101

Just watching Zelenski at the White House live
Zelenski completely lost it. Trump and Vance put him down.
Epic!
Trump just issued this statement on his TruthSocial account:
“We had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. It’s amazing what comes out through emotion, and I have determined that President Zelenskyy is not ready for Peace if America is involved, because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. I don’t want advantage, I want PEACE. He disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for Peace.”
Wow. E-P-I-C!

Posted by: b | Feb 28 2025 18:44 utc | 102

I need to make some extra popcorn for Dima’s next Military Summary Channel update.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 28 2025 18:46 utc | 103

Let’s imagine a US businessman going over to Odessa to extract Ukraine’s stuff. Think the Banderites would like him? How about the pro-Russian partisans? Or the hotel maid who’s brother was killed? Taxi driver? I’m assuming this businessman is middle aged, doesn’t have Rambo-like skills and is staying in the best hotel where all the foreigners stay. I’m not even talking about the Russians.
bottom line, Trump is sliding into the deep end and his floaties are leaking air. Russia is being patient and polite but they will continue their takeover of Ukraine. If Trump gets in the way they will warn him and then fight him. Trump will back down. Guaranteed.

Posted by: migueljose | Feb 28 2025 18:46 utc | 104

… I don’t want advantage, I want PEACE. He disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for Peace.”
Trump on Truth social
Posted by: Apollyon | Feb 28 2025 18:31 utc | 87

I wonder if Zelly called Hunter for a fresh bag of powder for the long ride home.

Posted by: Fool Me Twice | Feb 28 2025 18:47 utc | 105

The meeting!
Got fairly testy didn’t it!

Posted by: jpc | Feb 28 2025 18:47 utc | 106

@Zet | Feb 28 2025 18:38 utc | 92
Tons of popcorn …

Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 28 2025 18:47 utc | 107

@ Apollyon | Feb 28 2025 18:31 utc | 87 and b | Feb 28 2025 18:44 utc | 104 with the Trump put down of Z
This was one of the options I saw a few days ago.
Will Trump stop the arms flow?
Will Europe continue the arms flow?
Z has no agency but the Ukraine Rada does….what will they do?
Will Z be detained before he leaves the US?
I think I need a banana….grin!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 28 2025 18:49 utc | 108

A positive outcome of Trump’s bully pulpit machinations is that the Overton Window has been expanded to include views that were marginalized throughout the Biden years. In fact, there seems to be an expectation growing that negotiations will take place and peace will ensue. This is all to the good.
Though much of the mainstream media still serves as an echo chamber for legacy Biden/Biden propaganda, Trump has made our involvement in Ukraine into a legitimate issue about which people are free to ask questions about America’s involvement in this war, particularly one that is looking increasingly pointless and futile.

Posted by: JohnH | Feb 28 2025 18:50 utc | 109

Just speculating but maybe Trump is doing what Putin is doing.
Putin and Lavrov have been very clear — no peacekeepers from NATO, and no ceasefire without a comprehensive settlement.
Putin has raised the prospect of US companies jointly developing resources not just in Russia pre-2022 but also in the new Russian territories — see Martyanov’s recent video.
So, Putin wants the US to develop a financial stake in the new modus vivendi and peace deal.
Trump needs Ukraine to submit, which means surrendering, ending the war, ceding the territories, de-militarizing, accepting neutrality and never joining NATO. That’s a huge pill to swallow for Ukrainian nationalists.
The only thing that Trump can safely offer Ukraine is US investment in agriculture and mining. Trump can also sell this to Republicans as an economic victory for the US — they can’t object to new resource access, especially in the context of Chinese retaliatory export restrictions.
Ukraine loses the war but gets US financial commitments to joint resource extraction.
This might be the art of the deal. Win-win for almost everyone; Trump becomes Xi. Yes, Ukraine loses the war and a lot of land, but it keeps a smaller state, which is neutral and has US financial investment.
Besides the Ukrainian nationalists, the other major loser is Europe. It lost the war. It is starved of cheap resources (rare earths, fertile land, and cheap Russian gas). It is de-industrializing. It is militarily depleted. And the European population is increasingly seething at the liberal EU establishment.
For Trump, those are all positives! And they make Europe weaker for the coming trade war.

Posted by: crumpchy | Feb 28 2025 18:50 utc | 110

I wonder if he will have to share a bunk in the Ukie London embassy with Zaluzhny.
That EU leaders summit looks likely to get canceled.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Feb 28 2025 18:55 utc | 111

I have determined that President Zelenskyy is not ready for Peace if America is involved
Posted by: b | Feb 28 2025 18:44 utc | 104

So Trump says he will not further animate Zelenskyy.
Which raises the question “Who has been, and who is continuing to”?

Posted by: too scents | Feb 28 2025 18:55 utc | 112

Posted by: b | Feb 28 2025 18:44 utc | 104
“Epic” indeed, a media moment for the ages. The BBC outlet I’m currently listening to is still in a state of shock, more or less. They’re certainly struggling to find an anti-Trump angle to try and spin, though they do keep interviewing various “spokes-people” from Ukraine.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 28 2025 18:56 utc | 113

MOAR POPCORN! MOAR POPCORN, I say!

Posted by: Kadath | Feb 28 2025 18:56 utc | 114

Tom @ 99 & 103
Their are 3 wars going now right now…
Ukraine
Middle east
And the jewish lobby groups.
One down two to go.
If i was Bibi id be very nervous right now.
Regards 2 and 3.
I speak as i find.
Credit to trump.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 28 2025 18:57 utc | 115

Trump made an effort. He offered a deal. Ukraine rejected it.
The lesson:
Ukrainian nationalism will ironically destroy the Ukrainian state.

Posted by: crumpchy | Feb 28 2025 18:57 utc | 116

Besides the Ukrainian nationalists, the other major loser is Europe. It lost the war. It is starved of cheap resources (rare earths, fertile land, and cheap Russian gas). It is de-industrializing. It is militarily depleted. And the European population is increasingly seething at the liberal EU establishment.
For Trump, those are all positives! And they make Europe weaker for the coming trade war.
Posted by: crumpchy | Feb 28 2025 18:50 utc | 114
German played a game of whistling while it tried to make RF a junior partner.
They lost.
Now they either bend the knee or crumble.
Uk tried to show it was still a player.
They lost.
Lucky for them the us still holds the umbrella.
EU tried to show it was something.
It lost.
Try not to collapse is good enough.

Posted by: Newbie | Feb 28 2025 18:59 utc | 117

I am watching the live press conference on rumble and Trump and Zelensky look pretty cozy. Apparently a deal has been struck

Posted by: ld | Feb 28 2025 18:59 utc | 118

Should we start a countdown for how long it takes Macron to call yet another ‘emergency’ summit of European heads of state???

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 28 2025 19:00 utc | 119

Odds on Zelensky getting deposed before he makes it back?

Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 28 2025 19:00 utc | 120

If Trump is indeed trying for an isolationist or isolated US, then he is in a masterclass all its own. He has managed to alienate pretty much every ally it had. Even Canada, bending over, or getting down on it’s knees every time the US looked askance it’s way, seems to have finally had enough. Ditto for the Europeans. Every tariff the US applies, every chunk of land the US says it wants to appropriate pushes it’s allies further and further away.
There is no one chance in a billion that the US will be able to peel Russia away from it’s chief ally, China. Neither of these two trust the US. And with very good reason.
Japan and Taiwan, and perhaps South Korea will henceforth be the only reliable US allies the US could count on. China has the ability to make poof of both of them by the way.
If Trump can – at the expense of the rest of the world – get the american economy working for the american people again, instead of it’s oligarchs, then Trump may be a two term president. I have my doubts though. Unlike Doctorow, who I generally find to be a pretty clued in cat, I still believe Trump is a buffoon whose mouth writes cheques the US will go bankrupt trying to cash.

Posted by: rgl | Feb 28 2025 19:00 utc | 121

Watch in full: Angry exchange between Trump and Zelensky at White House
https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/cdel2npwe50o
US President Donald Trump and Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky clashed during an angry meeting at the White House on Friday.
Trump told his Ukrainian counterpart to be “thankful” and accused him of “gambling with World War Three”.
It comes a week after Zelensky said Trump was “living in a disinformation space” created by Russia, and the Trump accused Zelensky of being a “dictator”.

“Dictator” was nicely expressed … just say an IDIOT from the neo-Nazi stage in Kyiv.

Posted by: Oui | Feb 28 2025 19:02 utc | 122

Donald the clown then….
https://youtu.be/vVeVcVBW_CE?t=1269
Little changes.

Posted by: saner | Feb 28 2025 19:02 utc | 123

Posted by: ld | Feb 28 2025 18:59 utc | 122
That’s not the press conference you’re looking for. The deal is off, the after meeting presser got canceled:
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-zelensky-news-02-28-25/index.html

After a heated Oval Office exchange between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, the White House said an afternoon news conference has been canceled and Zelensky left early. Trump said on social media that Zelensky can come back “when he is ready for peace.” The meeting devolved into a shouting match, with the US president berating Ukraine’s leader, saying “make a deal or we’re out,” and Vice President JD Vance questioning whether Zelensky had demonstrated enough gratitude for US support during the three-year war.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 28 2025 19:02 utc | 124

oops sorry I see this was a live replay and I haven’t watched it till the end.

Posted by: ld | Feb 28 2025 19:03 utc | 125

Deal’s off.
Barflys
who effin called it???!!!
I read this same scenario more than once.

Posted by: osi not ossi | Feb 28 2025 19:04 utc | 126

spend no time on Trump
Posted by: Grieved | Feb 28 2025 17:09 utc | 10
That’s a grave mistake in my opinion.

Having the press inside the meeting room strikes me as very unusual. Neither Macron nor Starmer were treated that way, and it would be extremely unhelpful to any type of real negotiating.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 28 2025 17:57 utc | 49
I’ve laid it out recently: that’s the FATE model and its is part of how Trump works.
All of the current meetings (Macron, Starmer, Z) are set up to be broadcast – FOCUS
In this case, humiliation is a tool to achieve what Trump wants – AUTHORITY
Zelensky is singled out; Trump and Vance are acting together, not even allowing Z to express a full sentence – TRIBE
Then he’s made to nearly cry, he is broken – EMOTIONS
Again, that’s how you make your target do what you want.

Posted by: Zet | Feb 28 2025 19:04 utc | 127

How the hell does the coke addict survive this? Not a chance a mineral deal will be signed by Trump with him.

Posted by: Night Tripper | Feb 28 2025 19:04 utc | 128

Well englander papers have just said zelensky stormed out of meeting in DC after argument with trump & vance. No mineral deal, no press conference, all blaming each other.
So there’s the answer b.
It seems when two deluded people get their heads together with neither accepting the other’s delusion nothing can happen. Who’d have guessed? Trump will be desperate looking for a way out as his capitalist instincts tell him that Russia is always gonna be a better trading partner than ukraine, therefore he must agree to the Russian position, but he hasn’t worked out how to sell the decision to all amerikans & europe. He’d have been better off keeping his mouth shut and especially all his team’s mouths shut until the deal was done.
The honeymoon period may just have ended for trump.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 28 2025 19:04 utc | 129

they are now reporting that Trump kicked Zelensky out of the Whitehouse after the meeting and the US will now be doing an audit of US aid to Ukraine

Posted by: Kadath | Feb 28 2025 19:05 utc | 130

Geopolitics via Hollywood theatrics……what could go wrong?
This then keeps the option open of the rump of Ukraine being divided up among neighboring countries.
Just a note in passing for us detail sorts…..Trump announced his split with Z through his own private [profit/power focused] media outlet, TruthSocial….is he going to lay off his govt. spokesminions to save more money to extend his tax cuts for the rich?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 28 2025 19:05 utc | 131

I’ve completely lost the knack of reading the news anymore — i.e. making sense of things. Trump had a definite chip on his shoulder from the moment he shook Elensky’s hand, sarcastically congratulating him “You’re all dressed up today!” then repeating it plenty loud for all to hear: “He’s all dressed up today!”
Those enormous ties T-Rex wears are from an alternate culture as foreign to me as classical Balinese dance, but I’m able to read the significance of such conventions: Where T comes from, dressing decently is the absolute minimum mandatory modicum of appropriate respect when meeting with popes and presidents. E wasn’t “all dressed up” at all, of course, playing predictably into T’s prepared opening line.
Typically, the volatility on display seems way too stagey for the show to be purely accidental. With VP Vance positioned at tight-end to pump it up, if need be. E kicked out of the whiteman’s house, last I heard; the minerals deal totally scrapped!
What was that, how did that go? I could have sworn there were a good half-dozen reasons this deal was top priority — sending Treasury Sec Besant himself to Kiev as bagman, and all — two or three hours ago. Was the entire resource negotiation an elaborate hoax to be intentionally demolished, live from the Oval Office? I’m asking for help understanding here. I’m not kidding when I say I don’t get it.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Feb 28 2025 19:05 utc | 132

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tILXLxMTmgA
Ukraine’s $500 billion rare earths scam: they don’t exist, and we should know better

Posted by: osi not ossi | Feb 28 2025 19:07 utc | 133

Trump could finish this off by ordering the Pentagon to withdraw all advisors/personnel from the Ukraine. Or better yet, follow that by having someone leak the coordinates of secret command and control bunkers, to Russian intelligence.
Hello, Hazelnut!

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 28 2025 19:08 utc | 134

“I’ve got to the point where I just don’t pay that much attention to what he says in public.”
Kind of sums up my attitude.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 28 2025 19:08 utc | 135

Ukrainian nationalism will ironically destroy the Ukrainian state.
Posted by: crumpchy | Feb 28 2025 18:57 utc | 116
Yeup. And it cannot be left unsaid that the US, Canada and UK has been stoking Ukrainian (or rather Ukronazi) nationalism since the days of the USSR.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 28 2025 19:11 utc | 136

“A diplomatic disaster. There is no other way to describe it. Of all the possible outcomes of today’s high-stakes meeting at the White House, Volodymyr Zelensky and Donald Trump screaming at each other was not what anyone had pictured. It goes beyond the worst-case scenario. With that, months – years – of careful diplomacy by Ukrainian officials and diplomats went up in smoke. When the smoke cleared, Ukrainian-American relations were left lying in a pool of blood.” (c) Telegraaf correspondent

Posted by: Apollyon | Feb 28 2025 19:11 utc | 137

Wow!
The more you watch the more incredible it gets.
We’re never going to see anything like this again!
“Because the attitudes need to change ”
Hunter Biden is getting plenty of mentions.

Posted by: jpc | Feb 28 2025 19:12 utc | 138

Apologies for being juvenile but the popcorn level is now over 9000 watching this interview with Narcofuhrer and the Emperor of Mankind in the oval office. Seems there is trouble in paradise.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Feb 28 2025 19:12 utc | 139

Thinking about this:
Was the White House epic staged?
I watched it and I don’t think so. Zelenski talked himself into some rage. He was way too much full of himself. He was not provoked. It was solely his bad behavior that led towards escalation.
When it became too much he was finally put down for sabotaging Trump’s peace initiative.
What will Trump do now?
Best guess:
– He will walk away from Ukraine. (No rare earth deal or anything else.)
– Europeans will be ignored (Macron had urged him to meet Zelenski —>bad!).
– He will make a deal with Russia. Rare earth, lifting sanctions and much more.
(He might want to ask Putin if he needs ammunition. There is still some stuff in production for a now hostile Ukraine – that stuff could go elsewhere …)

Posted by: b | Feb 28 2025 19:12 utc | 140

Just watched the video of the exchange Zelensky – Trump – Vance
OMFG
Zelensky must have be used to pushing people around for years. What a palooka.
Trump – it’s good to show the American people all this.

Posted by: Exile | Feb 28 2025 19:13 utc | 141

We got a hint of this when Vance addressed the Europian leaders a few weeks ago.
Both that and this today are deffinatly showing a concitant theme, more than i could of dreamed of….
Mark2 eats humble pie.
Expect the worse,
Hope for the best. 🙄

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 28 2025 19:13 utc | 142

Beggars should never get uppity when panhandling for a dollar.

Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 28 2025 19:13 utc | 143

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Feb 28 2025 19:05 utc | 132
Someone in the Trump administration finally figured out there are no minerals or rare earths to be had. None that are worth the cost of the broken contracts or nuclear Armageddon.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 28 2025 19:14 utc | 144

BBC: White House confirms deal not signed.

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 28 2025 19:14 utc | 145

@ Aleph_Null | Feb 28 2025 19:05 utc | 132 who wrote

I’m asking for help understanding here. I’m not kidding when I say I don’t get it.

I expect the resource negotiation effort started with intention of seeing if anything could be offered that would be worth negotiating with Russia about. I think that has now been balanced against Russia’s demands and reality on the ground resulting in a repudiation that may give Europe pause about continuing their support for Z.
My $ 0.02

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 28 2025 19:15 utc | 146

We need a vargas breakdown as soon as possible.

Posted by: boneless | Feb 28 2025 19:15 utc | 147

Trumped:

“We had a very meaningful meeting in the White House today. Much was learned that could never be understood without conversation under such fire and pressure. It’s amazing what comes out through emotion, and I have determined that President Zelenskyy is not ready for Peace if America is involved, because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage in negotiations. I don’t want advantage, I want PEACE. He disrespected the United States of America in its cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he is ready for Peace.”

A well played exit.

Posted by: Michael64 | Feb 28 2025 19:16 utc | 148

https://x.com/JackStr42679640/status/1895407246483546382
NATO subsidies cut.

Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 28 2025 19:16 utc | 149

Watching a re-run and keep thinking that Zelensky should “Plead the Fifth”…

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 28 2025 19:16 utc | 150

Trump set Zelensky up to look like the bad guy.
Zelensky fell for it.
Next stop …… Diem’d

Posted by: Exile | Feb 28 2025 19:19 utc | 151

b @ all
Good to see you piling in on the thread b a rare treat for all of us.
Much respect.
Not often enought.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 28 2025 19:20 utc | 152

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Don and JD take turns slapping Zelensky. I haven’t laughed this hard since . . . well, probably since this whole sorry mess kicked off.
Only slightly facetiously, what are the odds now on Zelensky NEVER going back to Kiev?

Posted by: Hunsdon | Feb 28 2025 19:21 utc | 153

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 28 2025 19:20 utc | 152
What Mark2 said.

Posted by: Hunsdon | Feb 28 2025 19:22 utc | 154

Could not get rt via Proton VPN today but can watch live via TV.ink streaming service

Posted by: Jo | Feb 28 2025 19:23 utc | 155

@ b | Feb 28 2025 19:12 utc | 140 who asks if the White House epic was staged?
Yes, it was. Look at the actors on hand. Not staged word for word but concepts agreed to by Trump team.
Geopolitics, Hollywood style.
The question to ask is how Russia perceives the epic?
Let me also ask again if the military spigot will be shut off? I am not sure….Trump still supports NATO, remember…

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 28 2025 19:24 utc | 156

Michael64@148……exit stage left, come back when he’s ready? No one does Trump like Trump…..
Cheers

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 28 2025 19:25 utc | 157

I’d like to formulate a hypothesis on what has just happened – an idea that I haven’t read in MoA (apologies if I repeat someone else)
Trump’s proposed deal was aimed against the UK/EU/Soros-faction and the continuation of the war. It was a deal that Zelensky could not have agreed to.
Trump’s position with Macron and Starmer was that the UK/EU can have their peace keeping troops if they want to, but they’d have to pay for it
Trump’s position with Zelesky was that the US gets everything that can be collaterised out of Ukraine, but with no security guarantees.
These two positions taken together would mean the end of the war on the part of UK/EU, because without the Ukrainian collateral UK/EU are not in a position to fund the war or any ‘peacekeeping’ mission.
Since Macron and Starmer, the days before, could not get Trump onboard with security guarantees, Zelensky cannot sign the deal because that would be instant ‘death’ for him – with no one else left to support him and the Kiev regime.
If the above is correct then, the US is out, the UK/EU are (or rather want to be) in, and the Russians will take their time to effectuate regime changes in EU as well, destroying the Kiev regime in the meantime. Territorial questions will only be dealt with at the end.
Just my 2 cents
RandomLurker

Posted by: RandomLurker | Feb 28 2025 19:26 utc | 158

Big red candle

Wall Street dips after Zelenskiy and Trump clash
February 28, 20258:16 PM GMT+1Updated 6 min ago
Feb 28 (Reuters) – The S&P 500 dipped slightly in choppy trading on Friday after a meeting between the U.S. President Donald Trump and Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskiy ended in disaster.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/futures-inch-up-focus-shifts-key-inflation-data-2025-02-28/

Don’t spook the horses.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 28 2025 19:29 utc | 159

@122
“Kiev” 😉

Posted by: Fred777 | Feb 28 2025 19:29 utc | 160

@ b
Maybe Yermak got the ‘maintenance dose’ of a certain mineral substance somewhat awry?

Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 28 2025 19:31 utc | 161

As I said before, commenting on the first impression, and that is: DIVORCE! The EU divorces the supremacist US and divorces the expansionist Russia.
The EU is a superpower on its own. With 450 million population, much, much better educated work force and with an economic base superior to both, the US and Russia!

Posted by: LongTimeObserver | Feb 28 2025 19:32 utc | 162

psychohistorian @ 68

The shit show continues until it doesn’t….

The shit show will never end, and unlike the blessed peasants of the Middle Ages we in the age of TV and digital media are forced to watch it 24/7. Maybe it will end after the BRICS+, the anti-ClownWorld allies, defeat the 4th Reich. The Nazis are not an ideology or a world view, they don’t appeal to sense and logic, they are emotions and theater, in other words, ClownWorld, that’s the tell, that’s how you spot it – and spot continuity of agenda btwn administrations and between EU and USA allies.
Since Trump came into office the noise to signal ratio has gone off the scale, that’s also a tell, it was actually much clearer during the Biden admin, whether Trump is being canny, himself confused, or stealthily sophisticated we will only know after the smoke clears, but I stand on canny and I think when the smoke clears we will see an escalation. Trump v2 is not the rogue character he was in v1, Trump and the GOP are all in line this time, Trump represents a well thought out and organized US state policy and agenda, not willfulness; I doubt the GOP agenda is peace.
In my time I have never once seen political dirty laundry cleaned in public, never throughout history, in fact the dirty laundry of the elite and their ignoble plots disappears from history and becomes the realm of alt history or hidden history, the history many on MoA know and that I’ve learned from, so strange to see people professional, indie media, people on MoA, falling for the con as it happens, though admittedly the airing of dirty laundry does make gripping theater, there’s also monetization in the indie media speculating and gossip.
Today’s White House meeting where Trump excoriates Zelensky convinced me it’s all theater, it’s 110% kayfabe. “Oh, look at Zelensky’s face!” Zelensky is a trained experienced actor, Trump beside being a flim-flam man his entire life is, BTW, also an experienced TV actor, they both have the chops to pull off this nice little melodrama. The public “humiliation” of Macron and Starmer fit right into this, the unusualness and excess of the last few days is the give away, the Trump spectacle seems fresh because the Biden show was such an unappealing flop, people confuse fresh with genuine. The elites stab each other in the back, in dark corridors, they don’t humiliate each other in public, that would attack their legitimacy and disempower them – a millennial old rule that is never broken.
I have no idea where it’s going, I assume escalation, if Trump was really after peace the stage show wouldn’t be so melodramatic, the entire run up to war has been ridiculous, over-baked, b-grade theater, that’s the give away – continuity of emotional style equals continuity of agenda, we are watching a GOP-Trump reboot of the faltering “leftish” neocon 4th Reich franchise.
If Trump was for real he’d be abandoning ClownWorld. That’s what peace will look like, that’s what a statesman capable of peace will look like, an American, a European version of Putin or Xi, or Orban, or Fico, or Imran Khan will show up, not another clown, that’s how you will know the shit show is over.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Feb 28 2025 19:33 utc | 163

Posted by: too scents | Feb 28 2025 19:29 utc | 159
Thanks – I checked a few MIC stocks, like Raytheon and Lockheed Martin. They’re not really reacting, kind of flat … I guess it’s “Meet the new war, same as the old war.”
Meanwhile, Nvidia is pooping the bed … I think the AI party is just about over, the cops are arriving and Hunter already ran out the back door!

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 28 2025 19:33 utc | 164

Saw the video. Excellent! I told you don’t listen to Trump watch his actions. The Dems drove themselves insane jumping on every ill conceived word.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 28 2025 19:33 utc | 165

As I said before, commenting on the first impression, and that is: DIVORCE! The EU divorces the supremacist US and divorces the expansionist Russia.
The EU is a superpower on its own. With 450 million population, much, much better educated work force and with an economic base superior to both, the US and Russia!
Posted by: LongTimeObserver | Feb 28 2025 19:32 utc | 162
dream on

Posted by: Newbie | Feb 28 2025 19:34 utc | 166

End of Zelensky?
The minerals deal was a trap for Zelensky, to get him to come to the White House for a proper scolding.
Must see video:

Omg… Trump is scolding Zelensky like he’s a child
Trump: “You don’t have the cards right now”
Zelensky: “We’re not playing cards”
Trump: “You’re gambling with the lives of millions of people! You’re gambling with World War 3!

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Feb 28 2025 19:34 utc | 167

best part of this whole fiasco
“White House staffers are now eating Zelensky’s lunch, per FOX. No, literally. They had a lunch planned, Zelensky got kicked out and left, and now the Americans are chowing down.”

Posted by: Ezzie | Feb 28 2025 19:34 utc | 168

In response to

Don’t spook the horses.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 28 2025 19:29 utc | 159

GRIN! and now there is all weekend to stew in the juices of turmoil in Ukraine and Occupied Palestine.
I agree with the MOAR POPCORN rant….Moar conflict on the horizon…

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 28 2025 19:34 utc | 169

@ RandomLurker | Feb 28 2025 19:26 utc | 158
I think you hit the nail on the head with that one – Trump’s goal was to saves face while still backing out of Ukraine and offloading it to the Euros

Posted by: Ezzie | Feb 28 2025 19:36 utc | 170

With 450 million population, much, much better educated work force
Posted by: LongTimeObserver | Feb 28 2025 19:32 utc | 162

As a European I have to ask, if we are so smart where is our common sense?
Also, got oil?

Posted by: too scents | Feb 28 2025 19:36 utc | 171

b@140…..Trump can’t offer Russia ammo, the US needs it for when the uppity Canadians, under Freeland’s Freedom Banner, try to take out DC….not sure if they could take on DC Comics atm but some think they have the cajones…..
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 28 2025 19:37 utc | 172

Strana (machine translation):
Zelensky’s failure in Washington. Implications for Ukraine

Vladimir Zelensky’s visit to Washington ended in a huge failure . He publicly quarreled with US President Donald Trump, although the purpose of the visit was the opposite – to agree with Washington on continued assistance and security guarantees.
Moreover, the scandal was provoked by Zelensky himself by his rudeness towards US Vice President Jay Vance (before that, both Trump and Vance behaved quite calmly and respectfully towards Zelensky).
As a result, as American journalists write , Trump simply kicked Zelensky out of the White House.
“The White House says that’ the Ukrainians were begging for a reset, ‘but Rubio and Waltz told them that Zelensky needed to leave the White House grounds and return when he was ready for peace,” Fox News reporter Jackie Heinrich wrote on Twitter.
And although the failure could have been avoided if Zelensky had restrained his emotions, we must admit that such a result of the visit is, in general, natural.
Zelensky is against the early end of the war. He is ready to cease fire only in exchange for security guarantees implying the entry of the United States in one form or another into the war, in the event of an attack by the Russian Federation, which Washington does not intend to give. Zelensky feels like a hero from ancient legends. David versus Goliath, which is the shield protecting Western civilization. For him, the goal is the crushing and complete defeat of Russia, for which he wants to mobilize all the forces of the West.
And this point of view has been dominant in Western political circles and in the media for the past three years. And Zelensky is used to everyone honoring him as the greatest hero and fully supporting him on the path of “war to the bitter end”.
But in the West (and indeed in the rest of the world), there has always been and still is a completely different point of view. And over the past year, it has increased.
It proceeds from the fact that the chances of Ukraine defeating Russia are slim, and the chances of Kiev being defeated are increasing. It proceeds from the fact that the continuation of military operations with the support of Ukraine by the West is fraught with sliding the world into a third world war with the threat of nuclear conflict and the destruction of civilization. No one in the world is ready to take such a risk for the sake of Ukraine. Finally, it assumes that for the West, and indeed for the whole world, it is more profitable to trade with Russia than to fight.
And, from this point of view, an early end to the war is not the “surrender” that Zelensky and the Western “war party” are talking about, but salvation for Ukraine. And at the same time, the closure of the portal through which the world can enter a nuclear war. And Zelensky, who opposes this, in the framework of this concept, is not David, and not the shield, but “president Mikhail Bozek” from the TV series “Madame Secretary of State”, which provokes the Third World War.
Trump is the most prominent representative of this line, but far from the only one.
And, perhaps, for the first time faced with this line in a public discussion, Zelensky “floated”. And the actor in it won the head of state. He felt like he was on stage and decided to speak out as best he could. The consequences were not long in coming.
Of course, Zelensky is organizing a PR campaign to show that in Washington he “defended the interests of the nation” and that “all the people should unite around their president for the sake of survival” (and there are already similar reports). Also, some European countries and the Western “war party”will probably provide moral support. However, this does not change the essence.
Zelensky has fallen out with Ukraine’s largest partner. And he made a huge gift to Putin, whose main task is to deprive Kiev of American aid, which will sharply weaken the position of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the battlefield and, accordingly, radically worsen the negotiating position of Ukraine.
And this, the most dangerous scenario for Ukraine, in which the war will continue, but without the support of the United States, has become much closer today.
Actually, Trump stated this almost directly.
“Either we sign the agreement, or we leave,” Trump said.
Can Zelensky still replay the situation, agree to end the war and return to negotiations?
It’s possible.
But after today’s performance, the conditions for these negotiations and a peaceful settlement will be worse. Including for Zelensky personally.

Posted by: b | Feb 28 2025 19:38 utc | 173

Trump will be desperate looking for a way out as his capitalist instincts tell him that Russia is always gonna be a better trading partner than ukraine, therefore he must agree to the Russian position, but he hasn’t worked out how to sell the decision to all amerikans & europe. He’d have been better off keeping his mouth shut and especially all his team’s mouths shut until the deal was done.
The honeymoon period may just have ended for trump.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 28 2025 19:04 utc | 129

Disagree.
Putin already dangled a rare earth carrot ‘an order of magnitude’ bigger than Elensky’s.
Trump has the perfect excuse to take it.
Elensky was playing Max Bialystok, selling 2000% of Ukraine’s mineral wealth for cash now and he got found out.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Feb 28 2025 19:39 utc | 174

Guys and gals, some friendly advice ..
Go easy on the popcorn – it’s a marathon, not a sprint. We still haven’t gotten to the neo-con ‘splodey head phase … no doubt they’re cleaning their drawers out right now after an epic episode of poor bowel control while watching the Trump/Zelensky meeting.
But Miss Lindsay, Glitch McConnell, and other GOP Senators are going to erupt here, shortly, I predict .. save some popcorn for that!

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 28 2025 19:40 utc | 175

IMO Perhaps Trump is working toward a face-saving way to wash hands of Ukraine debacle?

Posted by: Lesterbegood | Feb 28 2025 19:40 utc | 176

Aah ha
The look on zel boys face !
Thats the look of an addict.
Refused his next fix, withdrawl symptems setting in, clucking.
Zel boy is addicted to free money, by the billion.
Cold turkey is on its way.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 28 2025 19:43 utc | 177

Just heard Trump mention that he has seen the sat pics of hundreds of dead Ukies, he wants it stopped.
Great press Conference, Trump actually states he let it run longer so US citizens could see what kind of mess they have on their hands. And Tiny Dancer delivered…..
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 28 2025 19:43 utc | 178

Trump and Vance together telling Z and the whole world that the war is over. Best bit of live television since Armstrong jumped out of a tinfoil box onto the set up in Laurel Canyon.

Posted by: Ogre | Feb 28 2025 19:45 utc | 179

Too coked up to know what happened but starting to get a clue.
https://x.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1895555315716014324
Thank you America, thank you for your support, thank you for this visit. Thank you
@POTUS
, Congress, and the American people.
Ukraine needs just and lasting peace, and we are working exactly for that.
2:22 PM · Feb 28, 2025
2M
Views

Posted by: osi not ossi | Feb 28 2025 19:52 utc | 180

@ dkallum
Ahh, actually, she or her moderators do, indeed, suppress non-anthropogenic-catastrophic views of climate change. Some fool on her blog made a comment along the lines of “it’s actually worse than what they’re telling you”. I can’t remember if I tried more than once to correct people, there, or not, but I completely stopped trying to post there after wasting my time and energy trying to make for a more rational conversation.
If you want to know if thing are actually worse, or actually not worse, than “what they’ve been telling you”, you could do worse than to start with Dr. Patrick Michaels’ talk (still on youtube) “Is Science Trustworthy”. The most accurate of the “holy models” (as I think Christopher Monckton referred to them) were a couple of Russian climate models that predicted the LEAST amount of warming. (One actually post-dicted the 16 year or so “pause”.)
I met Michaels (and Happer) in NJ when they participated in a climate debate. I asked him WHY the Russian models made less extreme (and more accurate) predictions. He said they used a higher specific heat of water.
Well, now, let’s think about this. Such a quantity can be measured in a lab, both under conditions of higher pressure and various levels of salinity. What reason can be given for allowing them to fudge this particular factor? (Aside from the fact that they get a more accurate final answer.)
(hand goes up) I think I know, though I’ve not a clue if the Russians thought of it this way.
A higher specific heat (than actual reality) could be a proxy for sub-terranean heat sources leaking into the lower ocean.
I discussed this in my bad_science_culture sub-reddit article “”Geologic Heat Linked To East Coast Ocean Warming Trend”, but what are wider implications?”
While googling around a few minutes, ago, I ran into a 2023 article “The science is settled but we just found 19,000 new volcanoes” which states that only 20% of the ocean floor had been mapped as late as 2018.

Posted by: metamars | Feb 28 2025 19:54 utc | 181

Playlist for Zelensky:
Shot By Both Sides – Magazine
This Charming Man – The Smiths
I’m So Bored With the USA – The Clash
Rip It Up And Start Again – Orange Juice
Keep Talking – Pink Floyd

Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Feb 28 2025 19:54 utc | 182

Whether staged or not, there’s some room for Janiakan* analysis here. Trump and Vance evidently came well-prepared to perform their parts with dignity, gusto, and dispatch. On the other hand, Boris Badunov in a black tee is a role for which the challenge of portraying a (non-comical) appealing personage is insurmountable. So E opted to shoot the moon dramatically — perhaps in the tradition of the late, great Gene Hackman — switching the subtext polarity to most unappealing: strikingly crude (nasally cringeworthy) obnoxiousness. Maybe T & E both decided to put the kibosh on.
Warm thanks for reasonably-priced assistance with geopolitical exegesis, on a puzzling day. This is a terrific thread, imho.
* San Francisco Chronicle Drama Critic Lily Janiak occasionally treats readers to a purely theatrical analysis of world events — an approach which seems more appropriate all the time in 2025’s Truman Show universe.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Feb 28 2025 19:55 utc | 183

So, before the chances of the Ukraine doing a peace deal with Russia was essentially completely null and non existent.
What are the odds with the bookmakers now of Elensky turning around and do a deal with Putin and switch sides in the process? Must be more than a few percentages points, yes?
Naomi
PS let this be a lesson if you are not a native English speaker but do understand enough English, always always use a translator as this gives you time to think and the punch of the native English speaker may hit some empty air first and maybe even fall flat.

Posted by: NaomiClareNL | Feb 28 2025 19:56 utc | 184

Wow!!! If what I have been reading about the standoff with Zelensky and Trump from comments on this site are true, I am going to write this, agree with me or not. Call me a fool or whatever comes to your mind. But, as much as I despise Zelensky, I must give him a round of applause. I would bet that as he was about to board the flight to the United States, someone told him that if he signed that deal, the minute he steps back on Ukrainian soil, he would be a dead man, because he would be selling his country right down the sewer pipe. So I’m sure that the hairs on the back of his neck stood out very long because of the complete vaudeville act that was being performed in the White House, and he got cold feet and said screw this crap, and exited stage left. And Trump, who I never liked and never will like, didn’t get the deal he wanted and looks like the fool he really is, in my most humblest of opinion. Wow!!!

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Feb 28 2025 19:57 utc | 185

Soooo
The mineral deal….
As shaun the lepricorn called it “dirt” rare dirt. Ha ha.
Who came up with that scam. ?
Zel boy ?
Or more likly those darstadly english. So as to drag the US in deeper by having bootz on the ground.
With out the US england are pussies.
English polititians and their jewish controlers are hell bent on nucular war and armageden.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 28 2025 19:59 utc | 186

The house of cards is coming down.
About time too!
Epic.

Posted by: g wiltek | Feb 28 2025 20:00 utc | 187

Gamble with WWIII, that’s the take
Biden would, trump won’t

Posted by: Newbie | Feb 28 2025 20:04 utc | 188

Those who know Ukrainian are saying that Zelensky called Vance a “bitch” in Ukrainian while Vance was talking. And the footage clearly shows him saying something in Ukrainian while Vance was talking.
I think a subtext on this is that Vance may have been on a slow boil with this ever since meeting with Zelensky two weeks ago in Europe. There were reports that he was disrespectful to Vance and company there and then came the row with the treasury secretary in Ukraine.
Trump and Vance despise the guy. Vance brought up today that he came over and campaigned for Biden. They hate him and can barely tolerate him. They didn’t need much excuse to go off on him.

Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 28 2025 20:04 utc | 189

Europe seem to be going full retard…
Never go full retard

Posted by: Newbie | Feb 28 2025 20:06 utc | 190

***Americans have a saying. “If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” Trump is closer to being brilliant than he is generally credited with being, but he baffles people with bullshit daily.
With Trump, you just have to wait and see what happens.
Posted by: CullenBaker | Feb 28 2025 17:00 utc | 6
Prescient. What a difference a few hours makes.
I’ve known many bullshitters but I do not consider Trump one because bullshitters don’t understand what they are talking about. Trump understands where all the moving parts are and how they may move with certain pressures. I think him mind occupies itself with this constantly. This is kind of like Irish chop busting at a stratospheric level.
I find Trump hilarious. He amuses himself for sure. Spanking a dignitary in public? Thats never done – until now.
Trump’s invited the East to ramp up the narrative on Ykranian war crimes ongoing in the Donbass since 2014.

Posted by: frithguild | Feb 28 2025 20:10 utc | 191

@b | Feb 28 2025 18:44 utc | 102

Wow. E-P-I-C!

No argument, it was one for the history books! Z is not going to recover from this.
The priority now is not to replace him with Zaluzhny or some other Banderite, the shitshow has to stop.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 28 2025 20:16 utc | 192

Europe seem to be going full retard…
Never go full retard
Posted by: Newbie | Feb 28 2025 20:06 utc | 190

dont worry, the EU (please dont say europe) will not only go full retard. they are “highly educated” after all!

Posted by: Justpassinby | Feb 28 2025 20:17 utc | 193

ChatNPC | Feb 28 2025 19:39 utc | 174 entirely missed the point. Of course Russia has the deal trump wants there is still a question whether Russia will allow amerika the deal if it is just another amerikan deal to steal resources that nations around the world have signed to their ruin, but if it isn’t & trump gets a deal that suits Russia and still allows the parade of greedy amerikan fingers to grasp sufficient, there is still a problem with europe & about 50% of amerikans who hold a different point of view.
trump can ignore those points of view for sure but that will make his administration’s long term viability suspect as it means trump is gonna hafta find a way to domestically square the circle, that is increase the wealth of his elite backers at the same time as he improves living standards for ordinary amerikans.
Europe has always been a big part of the amerikan empire’s shtick being able to show the world a neutered, obedient europe has been a primary way of telling global south leaders that resistance is hopeless cos they control all of those arsehole countries which plundered & murdered their way around the world for more than 200 years, imagine what amerika could do to us if the types who screwed us over are scared of ’em!
That has always been a basic sub text of the amerikan empire.
If the euros do finally get their act together and start behaving consistently for the euro bloc, amerika is gonna lose its security council proxies, its automatic poodles yapping in support whenever amerika pulls some outrageous stunt.
I’m not suggesting all that will happen from the getgo but it would be foolish to dismiss the chance that this could be a motivating issue by which euros are incorrectly convinced that Russia is a threat. Polls of euro populations do indicate that many do believe that nonsense, as amerikans could be deceived if there was a highly populated, resource rich nation right next door to them.
In fact euro leaders don’t have to believe that is the case to do this, they may decide terrifying the masses is a way to get the unification which they have been aiming for regardless of reality. Thus far england, france & spain have backed zelensky’s pov at the meeting so that may be what is happening right now.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 28 2025 20:18 utc | 194

To add to my above…
I missed the most important point.
Did american intel tell trump.
He was being scamed by europe over the ‘rare dirt.’
It would splain Vances venome 2 weeks ago,
It would exsplain Trump and Vance digging a hole and burying zel boy right their in front the camara !
Dont mess with the don, forgetaboutit. 😎

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 28 2025 20:22 utc | 195

Jeremy r-sl
Special European Council, 6 March 2025
Agenda highlights
EU leaders are meeting for a special summit to discuss continued support for Ukraine and European defence.
We are living a defining moment for Ukraine and European security.
European Council President António Costa, 23 February 2025
The President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, is invited to the meeting.
——–_;;;
I wonder what happened with Z and DT and staff before the TV broadcast. I like the way Vance seemed to say he has done lots lots research re the situation. Hope he checks out rt, all the telegram channels with the vids, Russian MoD reports etc etc and presumably there are loads of loyal Intel staff and researchers doing proper analysis and assessments …not the USaid and NED pcsyops staff and their sponsored international reporters journos

Posted by: Jo | Feb 28 2025 20:23 utc | 196

I agree with B.
I think Trump has muddied the waters and messed up by
(1) getting too involved, creating confusion in Europe
(2) announcing he is a peacemaker and then making a grab for Ukraine’s assets
(3) creating a situation where the war is likely to continue because Russia now sees that Trump is not really interested in peace but just wants to rob the Ukraine, and Russia must press on to a clear defeat of the Ukraine and force a total surrender in order to protect both itself and, actually, the Ukrainians, and prevent a rabid capitalist colonial asset stripper as its near neighbor.
In more ways than one, we seem to be back at Square One.
It’s a shame.

Posted by: Jane | Feb 28 2025 20:23 utc | 197

Putin will make some conciliatory gesture to the U.S. And be very respectful.
Everybody else will squirm in discomfort.

Posted by: John Thurloe | Feb 28 2025 20:25 utc | 198

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 28 2025 20:18 utc | 193
Europe’s leaders are busy showing solidarity with their pet Elensky.
Europe’s people, facing eye-watering energy bills, increasing unemployment due to deindustrialisation and failing infrastructure and public services are wondering whose side their so-called leaders are on.
Doubly so as it emerges (h/t Trump) that the monies given to Elensky were indeed given, not loaned, and the amounts suspiciously match the holes in their own national public finances.
Europeans despise their leaders and feel nauseous every time the Golden Pheasants of the Euro elites get together for one of their opulent, back-slapping conferences.
The Elensky curse has some more heads to cull yet.

Posted by: ChatNPC | Feb 28 2025 20:28 utc | 199

In more ways than one, we seem to be back at Square One.
It’s a shame.
Posted by: Jane | Feb 28 2025 20:23 utc | 196

I think you’re right about back to Square One but I don’t think it’s a shame. The Russians have surely known this all the time – about the US greediness – and now it’s for the rest of the world to see.
The Z clown, however! I’m still laughing after having seen that epic quarrel.
I really think it’s good for the world.

Posted by: Avtonom | Feb 28 2025 20:28 utc | 200