Elections In Germany: "Erst kommt das Fressen ..."
In comments I was asked to write about yesterday's elections in Germany. But I find it difficult to describe my country from its inside. There are already good reviews available and Conor Gallagher at Naked Capitalism has done a great job with this one which I highly recommend to read:
Germany Holds an Election in an Alternate Reality - Naked Capitalism, Feb 24 2025
In the alternate reality of German politics the U.S. is a friend. It did not blow up the Nord Stream pipeline and it did nothing to provoke the proxy war with Russia. In the alternate reality the Weakness in the German Manufacturing Sector has not been caused by it.
In the alternate reality it is all about 'values'.
The legendary writer Billmon had named his blog Whiskey Bar. It was a reference to the Alabama Song by Berthold Brecht. When Billmon closed the comments at his site I opened this blog as an alternative. I named it Moon of Alabama in reference to the chorus of that song.
The German election has brought another Brecht opera to my mind.
Living in their alternate reality the ruling parties in Germany have forgotten that "Fressen" (Engl.: guzzling, seizure, scoring) comes before "Moral" (Engl.: ethics, morale, values).
The voters have honored that by looking and voting for 'alternatives':
Berhold Brecht, Dreigroschenoper, NR. 15. ZWEITES DREIGROSCHEN-FINALE.
MAC - Ihr Herrn, die ihr uns lehrt, wie man brav leben
Und Sünd’ und Missetat vermeiden kann,
Zuerst müßt ihr uns was zu fressen geben,
Dann könnt ihr reden: Damit fängt es an.
Ihr, die ihr euren Wanst und uns’re Bravheit liebt,
Das eine wisset ein für allemal:
Wie ihr es immer dreht und wie ihr’s immer schiebt,
Erst kommt das Fressen, dann kommt die Moral.
Erst muß es möglich sein auch armen Leuten,
Vom großen Brotlaib sich ihr Teil zu schneiden.
HINTER DER SZENE - Denn wovon lebt der Mensch?
Berhold Brecht, Three-Penny Opera, 15th ACT, II FINALE
M. - You gentlemen preach to us that honesty is the best policy.
Stay clear of sin and crookedness, you say.
First tell us how to fill our stomachs,
then you can talk, that’s how to begin.
You who have a great time getting fat while we stay honest,
learn a lesson, once and for all;
no matter how you twist and turn, no matter what you’re shooting at,
first come the eats and then the moralizing.
First the people who have nothing
must get a slice of your loaf of bread.
CROWD — On what does a person live?
I have voted for the BSW, the new party of the 'conservative socialist' Sarah Wagenknecht. In my view it is the only party which has understood Brecht's warning to the rulers: Pragmatism, here: bread through peace with Russia and migration limits, must come first; before all appeals to abstract 'values', ethics and morale.
The still very young BSW party has received 4.97% of all votes. 13,500 votes less than needed to take the 5% hurdle and seats in the parliament. That is unfortunate but there are reasons for it:
[T]he BSW was caught off guard by the snap election. The party lacked local infrastructure and was short on cash for the campaign. It was forced to hurriedly register regional branches in order to participate in the national election.
I am optimistic that the party will continue to grow as it is currently the only real alternative in German politics.
As for other parties: The Alternative für Deutschland, AfD, was the clear winner in these elections. It was often described as 'hard-right' and even compared to fascism. That has created a kind of Streisand effect and allowed for its growth. But its program and ideas remind one of the conservative Christian Democrats during the 1980s. It is avidly pro-capitalist and pro-American but, inconsistently, also pro-Russian. That has helped it win in eastern Germany.
The center-left Social Democrats were the biggest losers in these election. It is the first time since 1887(!) that it is not the number one or number two party in Germany but had to take the third place. But it is still highly likely that it will govern again as the junior partner of the Christian Democrats.
Proportional voting in Germany (no 'first past the post') pretty much guarantees that all German governments are based on coalitions. The need to compromise prevents radical outcomes. It leads to policies of muddling through issues rather than resolving them.
That's not a good outlook for Germany but we will have to, again, live with it.
On a positive note: 100% of the 50 million votes, all on paper ballots, were counted within 8 hours. There was no strife.
Posted by b on February 24, 2025 at 15:17 UTC | Permalink
next page »Thanks b! I was surprised by Merz saying Germany/Europe must become independent of the Americans. That looks good on its face, but what of its reality?
Thank you so much for your descriptions of BSW and AFD. Good luck in getting Germany back on a good track.
Posted by: Woke American | Feb 24 2025 15:37 utc | 3
Given that dumm links seems to suffer from "an infantile disorder" it is unfortunate for you that a few more of their voters refused to be potty trained.
Posted by: Badjoke | Feb 24 2025 15:39 utc | 4
I have been wrong all this time, I thought that the smart gentleman of this blog was a gringo from Alabama.
Posted by: Buenaventura | Feb 24 2025 15:40 utc | 5
The winner Merz said this:
Absolute Priorität hat für mich, Europa so zu stärken, dass wir Schritt für Schritt auch wirklich Unabhängigkeit erreichen von den USA
Since it's naïve to believe politician's words at face value, I am thinking that the true message to America is "We are going to spend more in defense so expect more purchases of beautiful American weapons and a much better trade balance with us".
All of this "strong Europe" narrative concocted after Trump's turn to America, IMO hides a new kissing-our-masters-boots-and-saying-danke-mercie-tak strategy of our leaders to keep America minding our business for shared values and protection from the Russkies, who may not be interested in us at all, but that0s besides the point isn't it?
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 24 2025 15:41 utc | 6
Firebugs dragging their gasoline bottles are approaching the Academy of Arts, with a grin. And so, instead of embracing them, let us demand the freedom of the elbow to knock the bottles out of their filthy hands. Even the most blockheaded bureaucrat, provided he loves peace, is a greater lover of the arts than any so-called art-lover who loves the arts of war.-- Bertolt Brecht
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 15:44 utc | 7
The Alternative für Deutschland, AfD, was the clear winner in these elections. It was often described as 'hard-right' and even compared to fascism. That has created a kind of Streisand effect and allowed for its growth. But its program and ideas remind one of the conservative Christian Democrats during the 1980s
I looked up their platform earlier this morning and am reminded mostly of the US GOP, although AfD seems to be significantly more Islamophobic, very worried about German identity and "values" (the idea of "national values" is always a farce but that's neither here nor there). Also very focused on natalism, German women having German babies (what makes a baby "German" is an open question - for many AfD-ites I can only assume it's a genetic matter, which is shameful given the history of scientific racism in Germany being deployed against people of all kinds). It's very odd to me that AfD is doing so well in the East but I suppose resentment can play a big role. If AfD ever finds itself no longer as an "alternative" but as the status quo, I imagine that resentment will be refocused. Personally, I think German workers need to understand that the CDU/CSU and AfD, and the SPD under its right-wing, are two sides of the same bourgeois coin, just as likely to sell out German workers as Hitler was when he extinguished millions of German lives (before extinguishing his own out of cowardice - white people, I'm afraid to say, would rather kill themselves than face any kind of accountability for their actions).
BSW's right-tailing probably cost them a lot, but 4.9% is something to shake a stick at. Die Linke redoubled on leftism and surged, probably drawing voters away from BSW. I like Die Linke's current leader. Very cute lady.
Posted by: fnord | Feb 24 2025 15:50 utc | 8
Posted by: Brian Bixby | Feb 24 2025 15:28 utc | 1And yet in the Untied States (spelling deliberate) we're regularly told that, like having decent healthcare for all, is impossible. It's good for the PTB that very few Americans spend any time in other countries.
Maybe we have universal healthcare over here in Europe because we spend so little in defense as we count on the American taxpayer apparently volunteering to pay for our protection from the Russkies (who may not be interested in us at all)?
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 24 2025 15:54 utc | 9
I have voted for the BSW, the new party of the 'conservative socialist' Sarah Wagenknecht. In my view it is the only party which has understood Brecht's warning to the rulers: Pragmatism, here: bread through peace with Russia and migration limits, must come first; before all appeals to abstract 'values', ethics and morale.
Fun part: I voted for the AfD for the very same reason. Event the Brecht quote hits my decission right on the spot: The communists like Miss Wagenknecht were always good on moral (or ideology) but poor on economie.
Posted by: Tuk | Feb 24 2025 15:55 utc | 10
thanks b...
i appreciate the inside perspective and content and especially appreciate the 3 penny opera content and context here...
Posted by: james | Feb 24 2025 16:01 utc | 11
Last August I wrote that Germany's 2025 Election Will Not Change Germany's Foreign Policy: Meet the New Boss, Same as the Old Boss, Fooled Again!
Merz has already stated the need for Ukraine to win the proxy war! By the next election the German population will be utterly sick of the CDU/CSU and the SPD and will be looking for an alternative, and the German oligarchs have nurtured and supported one - the AfD. The media very much helped Die Linke in the weeks leading up to the election, and deflated the BSW (a poll published close to the election supposedly found them to have only 3% support!). The media will now work hard to make the BSW disappear as an alternative for the next four years.
Next election, a CDU/CSU-AfD coalition. Or perhaps it will be AfD-CDU/CSU.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 16:01 utc | 12
@Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 24 2025 15:54 utc | 9
Its a US army of occupation, the Soviets and now the Russians never had any interest in moving farther westwards. Stalin handcuffed the Western European communists, let the UK and US destroy the communist rebels in Greece and made sure that his troops retreated to the agreed lines of division. The Soviets wanted peace after losing 27 million and much of their infrastructure and even buildings to defeat the Nazis.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 16:05 utc | 13
Thank you very much, b. Not too far off topic is this conversation the Duran held with Jeffrey Sachs before the election. I was watching it as learning about the results last night. The Duran has had much to say on Sarah Wagenknecht, and such a narrow loss of representation ought only to encourage her party for the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpP_XRcxcJ0&t=81s
Thanks also for the Brecht operatic message!
Posted by: juliania | Feb 24 2025 16:07 utc | 14
https://geopoliticaleconomy.substack.com/p/trump-divide-russia-china-us-strategy
Sorry if off topic.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 24 2025 16:07 utc | 15
Next election, a CDU/CSU-AfD coalition. Or perhaps it will be AfD-CDU/CSU.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 16:01 utc | 12
---
The is a good probability that Germany splits along its BRD/GRD fault line before the "next" election occurs.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 16:09 utc | 16
@ Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 24 2025 15:54 utc | 9
The US lacks universal healthcare because our status quo is too convenient both for health insurance profiteers and as a mechanism of discipline for the entire working class. You can't leave your job and go on a sabbatical (say, to hunt for a new job) if your health insurance is linked to your employment. You'll put up with whatever bullshit your boss gives you. Capitalists like having their workers in such a bind. It more than makes up for having to shoulder the cost of health insurance, which they may not even provide to all of their employees anyway (typically one has to be full time, and many retail and restaurant establishments deliberately avoid giving workers full time hours to avoid having to pay for their insurance).
I think what the EU fears from Russia is having to do trade on equal terms. It's not like Russian capital is very advanced relative to German, French, or even British capital. And it's not like, after losing potentially upwards of a hundred thousand men in a meat grinder in Ukraine, amidst a declining population at that, that Russia would be very interested in making moves on the Baltics, let alone Germany. But the East not being in the position of Africa or Latin America, not being forced into unequal and uneven terms of trade, is always threatening to the extant imperialist powers. Russia has to be cut down to size to ensure the overall stability Western European capital accumulation and capitalist class rule. The ongoing stagnation of the German and British economies shows exactly what happens when bourgeois capital is unable to exert power over trade partners to their own benefit. There's also probably a fear that Russia becomes a trading partner of the Baltic nations (if the Baltics could put aside their Nazism and resentment of the "Soviet occupation"), cutting into their trade with Western European capitals. It's all imperialist machinations and it's all pointing towards a horrible war.
Posted by: fnord | Feb 24 2025 16:13 utc | 17
Inviting Netanyahu for a state visit, as almost the first announced business of the new coalition is difficult to understand. It is being done in conscious defiance of the United Nations courts.
Posted by: jayc | Feb 24 2025 16:13 utc | 18
As for other parties: The Alternative für Deutschland, AfD, was the clear winner in these elections. It was often described as 'hard-right' and even compared to fascism. That has created a kind of Streisand effect and allowed for its growth. But its program and ideas remind one of the conservative Christian Democrats during the 1980s. It is avidly pro-capitalist and pro-American but, inconsistently, also pro-Russian. That has helped it win in eastern Germany.
The center-left Social Democrats were the biggest losers in these election. It is the first time since 1887(!) that it is not the number one or number two party in Germany but had to take the third place. But it is still highly likely that it will govern again as the junior partner of the Christian Democrats.
But didn't leftist parties as a whole improve their % performance compared to the last election. Also, AfD did not perform any better than what was expected. So Trump and Vance's support of this neo-Nazi party did not improve its results. Why is this website, seen as a progressive website in the days of Billmon, so eager to rally behind neo-Nazi parties instead?
Posted by: TopaInkaYupanqui | Feb 24 2025 16:16 utc | 19
@ Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 16:05 utc | 13
And not just post-'45. Soviet intermediaries in Mexican trade unions were promoting class compromise instead of revolution as part of a deal with North American capitalists dating back to the 1930s. Stalin dismantled the Comintern for FDR and Churchill before the war even ended. The US responded with a red scare that purged communists and socialists from political life, arresting thousands who would spend years in prison for political "crimes" and false charges of espionage, and instigated a war in Korea which only went cold, never formally ending. One's reminded also of Stalin selling out German communists to the Nazis after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Stalin did everything he could to appease the Western powers, and he never shot first.
Posted by: fnord | Feb 24 2025 16:21 utc | 20
"Gluttony first! Then morality"
Has more of the punch (and the punch is important!?) of the original German applied to the English translation? Maybe incorrect (I don't speak German).
The ravenous hunger must first be satiated —and quickly— or nothing else matters. The world is certainly starving for much more than food but food also; starving for justice, starving for sanity, starving for truth, starving for real peace, but so many walk around convincing themselves they are not starved for anything at all.
The election in Germany seems to partly be an example of stubborn self-denying survival. While dismayed I must "approve"; it is a coping mechanism I use myself for myself, but it isn't healthy, can only last so long, and is certainly very bad for an entire society.
Often there is talk about "the suicide of Europe" (or the west or similar), but this looks like an explicitly voluntary suicide by starvation. What would be next? Drinking mercury so the corpse can be preserved "forever" in a meditative pose like some Japanese Zen monks did?
I distrust elections, but I'm putting that aside as a separate topic (or maybe that exactly what I didn't do).
Manufactured reality; eat your fill! "You" will always want more and constantly starve :|
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Feb 24 2025 16:23 utc | 21
Stalin did everything he could to appease the Western powers, and he never shot first.
Posted by: fnord | Feb 24 2025 16:21 utc | 20
---
Stalin failed so that Deng could succeed.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 16:23 utc | 22
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 16:05 utc | 13Its a US army of occupation, ...
I've read and heard the above so many times among dissident Westerners BUT it seems to me like in fact Europeans want the Americans here more than the Americans want to be here.
At least a large part of America, perhaps a permanent majority, are people more of the mind-your-own-business persuasion, though liberal and neocon interventionists have controlled the USA since Clinton, except for Trump v. 2.0. I've met many of those non-interventionist Americans.
Whereas here in Europe, nearly all people are of the let's-meddle-in-that-country-over-there-for-our-values-and-shit kind of mentality, much more ideological, less pragmatical, more fanaticized in whatever they fancy to believe.
Europe is more uniform, America can be one way or another, as we are seeing now.
So I'm not sure anymore about the conventional dissenter's idea that the Americans are an occupying force.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 24 2025 16:26 utc | 23
#14 juliania
Just using this random case to advertise using not-youtube when linking to videos available on other platforms! Duran and also Dima and others, who are linked to regularly here, place their content on Rumble for example. Rumble might have it's own faults, but the simple fact that it is not youtube, makes it preferable. The information monopoly is a threat to everyone, no matter the personal bias. In our very own interest, we should support the small guy, the alternative to the dominant player.
This of course is off topic, but it would be off topic anywhere.
Posted by: Hamburger | Feb 24 2025 16:27 utc | 24
The real tragedy is that in the country that coined the term "Realpolitik", this was the last thing put on display, both by its politicians, and secondly by its unimaginative population of bootlickers.
They will both get what they asked for: austerity and no respect.
Posted by: Rubiconned | Feb 24 2025 16:50 utc | 25
I suppose it's no surprise but nearly every analysis of the results I've seen do not really consider the war on Russia in Ukraine. It seems it would be very difficult to assess the outcome without factoring in the public positions of each party on that massive issue.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 24 2025 16:52 utc | 26
@ TopaInkaYupanqui | Feb 24 2025 16:16 utc | 19
if your conclusion at the end is anything to go on - you didn't read or understand the post, or this blog more generally.. oh well..
Posted by: james | Feb 24 2025 17:01 utc | 27
Thanks for the posting b
Your BSW candidate, Sahra Wagenknecht got more votes than Jill Stein, who I voted for in the US if that makes you feel any better.
The shit show continues until it doesn't and that time is looking far out today.
So, how can Trump negotiate peace in Ukraine with Putin if Europe keeps the conflict going?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 24 2025 17:03 utc | 28
But didn't leftist parties as a whole improve their % performance compared to the last election. Also, AfD did not perform any better than what was expected. So Trump and Vance's support of this neo-Nazi party did not improve its results. Why is this website, seen as a progressive website in the days of Billmon, so eager to rally behind neo-Nazi parties instead?
No: The leftist parties lost combined around 8%.
And the AfD is not a Neo-Nazi party. Mainstream tell us so but they tell us the same about Donald Trump, Elon Musk, Putin and many other people and parties. Neo-Nazis is a contemporary term for "those who don't agree with me".
AfD stands for peace, economic prosperity, Swiss styled direct democracy, families, freedom of self-expression, liberty of speech. Basically the opposite of the NSDAP.
The actual follower of the NSDAP are the left leaning 'Greens'. Many leading greens have high ranking NSDAP officials in their bloodline. They share with them their hate against the "subhuman, ever drunken" russians, the ideas how to organize the economy and agriculture, European politics, devotion towards Islam (Hitler thought about Islam as the only real religion for a warrior nation) and many more. That Hitler send many communists to concentration camps is not a counterpoint, the Russian communists did send other lefties into the Gulak.
Posted by: Tuk | Feb 24 2025 17:04 utc | 29
@too scents | Feb 24 2025 16:09 utc | 16
The is a good probability that Germany splits along its BRD/GRD fault line before the "next" election occurs.Sorry, I don't recall if you are from Germany. If you are, it would be interesting to learn about the reasons and the processes that would make that happen. I know the overall history, but I thought that the Germans were too conformist to make something like that happen.
Interesting explanation from b. As an outsider I had hoped to see BSW more successful, but the forces against here sane policies are are to be expected.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 24 2025 17:11 utc | 30
@Johan Kaspar | Feb 24 2025 16:26 utc | 23
So I'm not sure anymore about the conventional dissenter's idea that the Americans are an occupying force.Facts matter. They are an occupational force regardless of what a "conventional dissenter" may think. Btw., if you are conventional you are not a dissenter.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 24 2025 17:18 utc | 31
is why the USA cannot fix its bureaucratic problem the bastards in government will not answer the questions, never ever tell the truth and never admit to their wrongs.. they stonewall everything, everyone and in doing so they violate the right to self-determination (if you are not allowed to know what your government is about then you damn sure cannot known to decide what you want or need).
If I were Trump or MUSK i would fire and mark every one of these stonewall employees right down to the guy with the highest and most prestigious PHD not to be rehired under any circumstances, condition or for any need. Do the same with those in health care. Do so in the same light as Carter did when he fired the Air Traffic controllers.
This is why I think the AfD did so well in Germany.. the people at the bottom are rising and the people at the top are stonewalling..
Posted by: snake | Feb 24 2025 17:19 utc | 32
JohanKaspar@1628 Feb 24
Please inform this site whether or not a treaty of peace has been signed between the UK and the U$$A with any German government since May 8,1945.
If you are unable to present documentation of such a peace treaty, then we must conclude that Deutschland remains as an occupied state.
Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 24 2025 17:23 utc | 34
Sorry, I don't recall if you are from Germany.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 24 2025 17:11 utc | 30
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I am "from" the USA. For the last 30 years I've been living in Switzerland. 15 years as a naturalized citizen.
From my travels and associations I can tell you that Germany is practically always portrayed as West Germany. The real Germany is somewhat different, and starkly divided.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 17:24 utc | 35
Stalin did everything he could to appease the Western powers, and he never shot first.
Posted by: fnord | Feb 24 2025 16:21 utc | 20
_______
Exactly, which is why every time our “guest from franconia” asks “what would Comrade Stalin do?” every time he wants to ridicule Putin, I can’t resist a good chuckle.
Posted by: malenkov | Feb 24 2025 17:27 utc | 36
Inviting Netanyahu for a state visit, as almost the first announced business of the new coalition is difficult to understand. It is being done in conscious defiance of the United Nations courts.
Posted by: jayc | Feb 24 2025 16:13 utc | 18
Well, this is probably Merz' thank-you to Israel for all the terror attacks right before the election. It greatly helped Merz to sharpen his profile as the one cleaning up the refugee mess, closing the borders, etc. and therefore presenting himself as a viable alternative to the AfD.
Oh, and right today he already busted the expectations of all the people who went with him instead of the AfD by saying: "we've never said that we will close the borders" :-)
Posted by: Zet | Feb 24 2025 17:39 utc | 37
Germany is a few electoral cycles away from reform. France is at the cusp of having a first go at it, but it takes one more cycle afterwards to get there. In The Netherlands we started with that already, I think next time we may see real change.
It is in the legislative where laws need to be changed and the then judicial interpretations of those evolved. That is when you see true change.
Europe is about 10 years behind the US on average. US is starting to evolve past the progressive nightmare but it is quite shaky in the legislative. I expect in 2 years to have some more clarity on the timetables.
The situation with Russia and how it plays out may accelerate this.
I do not rule out retrograde processes in Europe as the losing side entrenches and creates even more damage.
Change in the West is inevitable. We have become decadent and have succumbed to fake progressive ideologies.
Posted by: alek_a | Feb 24 2025 17:50 utc | 38
our “guest from franconia”
Posted by: malenkov | Feb 24 2025 17:27 utc | 36
---
“Guest from franconia” is going to have an impossible time running his playbook against the Chinese.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 17:51 utc | 39
"100% of the 50 million votes, all on paper ballots, were counted within 8 hours."
And yet in the Untied States (spelling deliberate) we're regularly told that, like having decent healthcare for all, is impossible. It's good for the PTB that very few Americans spend any time in other countries.
Posted by: Brian Bixby | Feb 24 2025 15:28 utc | 1
So true. Plus, the US provides billions to Israel which unlike the US has universal healthcare for all Jewish Israelis. Pretty fucked up, eh?
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 24 2025 17:53 utc | 40
Posted by: Hamburger | Feb 24 2025 16:27 utc | 24
My apologies for my personal limitations - you are correct, Hamburger, of course. I at least enjoy reading the comments from the many supporters at the various Duran sites and wish them all well.
This won't help a whole lot, sorry, but in a search for more Brecht, I found this production. Sorry the sound isn't great- the performances were wonderful. Reminded me of my own grandkids when younger doing Shakespeare, full versions of so many plays. Such heart!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzVhiADJkKk
Posted by: juliania | Feb 24 2025 18:03 utc | 41
We have become decadent
Posted by: alek_a | Feb 24 2025 17:50 utc | 38
---
There is nothing wrong with decadence if you can afford it.
The West's issue is that they are overdrawn, and that Western culture thrives on shirking their expenses.
Blanche DuBois mindset.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 18:04 utc | 43
"I looked up their platform and [it] reminded of the US GOP, although AfD seems to be significantly more Islamophobic" - Fnord 8
It amazes me how few know history or...pretend not to know history, nay not even current events. Anybody whose has been in Holland or Germany knows that the "Ottomans" are increasingly taking hold of the aforementioned countries. Below I have placed a map for those who use the word Islamophobic in preference to a passing knowledge of eastern European history.
Using the word "phobia" implies a psychiatric disorder, people who realistically assess a past enemy are the opposite of delusional. It's the people who prescribe to others without historical context that are the very definition of delusional or worse, treacherous. It's the Scorpion telling the Frog in Aesop's fable that he was just being too arachnophobic..."yeah..that's it, you're being too arachnophobic, yeah, I really do think".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_wars_in_Europe#/media/File:ImperioOtomanoSimplificado-en.svg
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 24 2025 18:06 utc | 44
It amazes me how few know history or...pretend not to know history, nay not even current events.
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 24 2025 18:06 utc | 44
---
Who doesn't love a good Döner Kebab?
The doner kebab, an unlikely symbol of European identityPublished: May 13, 2019 9.00pm CEST
Has the doner kebab become a political issue in Europe? While the idea might seem humorous, this is a serious question. Alongside the hamburger, the doner kebab is one of France’s most popular fast-food dishes. It has also attracted unexpected attention and controversy, and raised previously unexplored cultural issues.
continues ==> https://theconversation.com/the-doner-kebab-an-unlikely-symbol-of-european-identity-117025
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 18:19 utc | 45
karlof1 posted, at 2:
Thanks b! I was surprised by Merz saying Germany/Europe must become independent of the Americans. That looks good on its face, but what of its reality?
The 'reality' is that Germany will 'up its defense', will 'defend itself against agression', will 'mobilise', and so on, against Russia, right in line with US demands, carrying out the US agenda that is forcefully demanding that the EU / European countries take over the UKR disaster and be 'accountable' for the débacle. Trump cannot, will not, 'own a loss', Europe is a handy 'partner' to blame, 'they didn't do it right, didn't spend enough, etc.' Merz is just taking on what the US is demanding he does.
Posted by: Noirette | Feb 24 2025 18:23 utc | 46
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 24 2025 18:06 utc | 44
What do you think would be better for the long term survival of the Palestian people?
A> Their own state. Even if the impossible were to happen, how long do you think it would last (i.e. Syria)
B> Taken over by Israel. (Not a serious question)
C> Taken over by Wall Street for Beach front Condos
D> Taken over by the Ottomans. (I like to think of the Ottomans as the bastard son of the Byzantines.)
Do you see an alternative?
Posted by: Deniz 152 | Feb 24 2025 18:27 utc | 47
The is a good probability that Germany splits along its BRD/GRD fault line before the "next" election occurs.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 16:09 utc | 16
As an East German over 76 years old, I can tell you one thing.
There will be more attacks by migrants, that is 100% certain!
If Merz, as the new Chancellor, were to be caught with such "incidents" BEFORE coalition negotiations with the SPD, negotiations would very quickly end, as the SPD would fight tooth and nail against closing the borders, not to mention the forced departure and deportation of illegal asylum seekers or criminals.
Woe to it if there are more dead children like in the last attack in the middle of a German city, or more dead police officers.
What would Merz have left... tear down the firewall and form a coalition with the AfD?
Or just hold new elections, not after 3 years like with the traffic light coalition, but perhaps after 6 months.
If such incidents occur after a coalition with the SPD and no tough measures are taken, the result would be the same as NEW ELECTIONS, after civil war-like unrest!
Merz still has to report to Trump in the USA (Chancellor file) occupation zone.
Perhaps Trump will already make it clear to him that tearing down the firewall to the AfD could possibly secure him the chancellorship for the full term (4 years)!
And
Woe betide Merz as chancellor if he really implements his announced ultimatum to Putin... "Withdraw from Ukraine or he will deliver Taurus"
Then he would have screwed up as a politician in the east of the country (former GDR), as we Germans say.
Putin would show him what Hazelnut can do
Trump felt betrayed and would probably have completely different options as an occupier?
Posted by: Ost Rentner | Feb 24 2025 18:29 utc | 48
The is a good probability that Germany splits along its BRD/GRD fault line before the "next" election occurs.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 16:09 utc | 16
As an East German over 76 years old, I can tell you one thing.
There will be more attacks by migrants, that is 100% certain!
If Merz, as the new Chancellor, were to be caught with such "incidents" BEFORE coalition negotiations with the SPD, negotiations would very quickly end, as the SPD would fight tooth and nail against closing the borders, not to mention the forced departure and deportation of illegal asylum seekers or criminals.
Woe to it if there are more dead children like in the last attack in the middle of a German city, or more dead police officers.
What would Merz have left... tear down the firewall and form a coalition with the AfD?
Or just hold new elections, not after 3 years like with the traffic light coalition, but perhaps after 6 months.
If such incidents occur after a coalition with the SPD and no tough measures are taken, the result would be the same as NEW ELECTIONS, after civil war-like unrest!
Merz still has to report to Trump in the USA (Chancellor file) occupation zone.
Perhaps Trump will already make it clear to him that tearing down the firewall to the AfD could possibly secure him the chancellorship for the full term (4 years)!
And
Woe betide Merz as chancellor if he really implements his announced ultimatum to Putin... "Withdraw from Ukraine or he will deliver Taurus"
Then he would have screwed up as a politician in the east of the country (former GDR), as we Germans say.
Putin would show him what Hazelnut can do
Trump felt betrayed and would probably have completely different options as an occupier?
Posted by: Ost Rentner | Feb 24 2025 18:30 utc | 49
"..how can Trump negotiate peace in Ukraine with Putin if Europe keeps the conflict going" Psychohistorian - 28
In all honesty, even with the US-Treasury printing it's way to "planet"-Pluto, the US can not keep the conflict going at any level beyond that of terrorism which...was Team-Biden's, in collusion with the English, exit plan. This is old, something the English and Americans had done in the post WW II years against the Soviet-Union. Western Europe can only offer as much resistance to Russian/Russian-lands being returned to Russia. And let's face it, the English have been using terrorism as statecraft for 500 years.
Another factor worth noting, the Anglo-Americ-3LAs, Britain's political-parties and the administration of Hillary/Cheney/Obama/Team-Biden [singular-intended] worked together in trying interfere with the election of Trump by the American people. The English upper-class despise democracy, unless it's just a fig leaf to disguise their totalitarian rule.
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 24 2025 18:35 utc | 50
There will be more attacks by migrants, that is 100% certain!
Posted by: Ost Rentner | Feb 24 2025 18:29 utc | 48
---
The "migrants" from Frankfurt are the ones that will price you out of your home.
Just my opinion of course, but I have seen it happen repeatedly.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 18:37 utc | 51
To Norwegian ( Feb 24 2025 17:18 utc | 31 ).
I think he meant that the idea is widespread (thus conventional) and not that the dissenter is conventional. That's how I read it anyway (because it made sense to me that way).
I guess a more precise way of writing it would have been "the common idea among dissenters".
It is always much easier to edit someone else than to edit oneself.
It is also always much easier to edit someone else when one disagrees! :D
(And I do disagree: it is an occupational force whenever it is needed as such, and also always a constant background force of pressure ..."keeping an eye on the Germans" etc. (I'm sure it was much more practical and convenient for the NSA to have their stuff right up Merkel's nose when they tracked her —as with everybody/thing else)).
On the subject of elections is it okay for me to ask about Norway? In your opinion are there any interesting or "not absolutely horrible" political parties or forces there? Anything like BSW?
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Feb 24 2025 18:38 utc | 52
The Recent Weakness in the German Manufacturing Sector
Germany’s manufacturing sector has struggled since 2021 due to rising energy costs, weak global demand, and a declining automotive industry. This column describes how higher gas consumption in energy-intensive industries, trade fragmentation, and competition from China have hit Germany harder than other euro area economies, and shows that shocks in German industry significantly impact neighbouring countries. With energy prices high and demand subdued, challenges for Germany’s manufacturing sector – and its European partners – are set to persist.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2025/02/the-recent-weakness-in-the-german-manufacturing-sector.html h/t nakedcapitalism.com
Take a good scan the graphics here ....
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 24 2025 18:43 utc | 53
Merz has spent his whole life being a corporate lawyer and politician who is full on pro-EU, pro-NATO, Atlanticist, and neoliberal. He was born into a Catholic family with his father being a judge and a member of the CDU. At 69 years old he represents the old guard that spent their childhood and formative years during the Cold War and the German post-war miracle, creating a man that is reflexively anti-Russian and culturally conservative.
He was chairman of the supervisory board for an HSBC offshoot from 2010-2019, as well as for Blackrock Germany from 2016-2020, as well as sitting on numerous other German supervisory boards. He is the German old school, that is embedded in the industries that made Germany great in the post-war years but are now increasingly left behind by technological change and the Chinese move into their industrial niches.
He has no clue about what needs to be done, nor any inclination to do those things that need to be done, to turn around Germany from decline.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 18:44 utc | 54
@ Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 24 2025 18:06 utc | 44
The Turks - the only people besides maybe some folks in the Balkans with a claim to Ottoman ancestry - are not quite the Islamists seeking to impose Sharia law on the oh so innocent white Germans (and Britons, and French, and so on). Muslims make up, at most, 7% of the population, and while they are breeding faster than the "christian" Germans, with such numbers it is far more likely that the Muslims integrate over time into the German national morass - including into German atheism and hedonism - unless the state manages to institute some kind of segregation like they did to the Jews (and we know how that ended - the Jews should have been given Germany to rule over instead of Palestine, if you ask me).
More recent history than that of the Ottoman Empire (which by the turn of the 20th century was a shell of its former self) is more instructive. Western Europe has sponsored Jihadism wherever it has been of service against secular nationalist and socialist Arab republics. There is no "clash of civilizations", except perhaps with the decadent capitalist "west"'s intransigent opposition to socialist national development in the Arab world and Africa (I would not be surprised if the Islamists in the Sahel states are sponsored by the CIA or the State Department). Indeed, plenty of "christian" (this never actually mattered to anyone in power in "the west" except for the various and disparate church authorities) proto-nations aligned themselves with the Ottomans whenever it made sense, for example, when they wanted to kill their "christian" brothers and sisters for their land and resources.
Yes, I'm willing to call Islamophobia a kind of hystericism, to use a good old psychoanalytical word. We see it in its most genocidal manifestation in Israel and the US, both of whom combined have killed many millions of Muslims over the last fifty years, to which Islamic terrorism pales in comparison, barring Daesh, who were initially sponsored by "western" governments, including Israel. I'm sorry, but the Muzzies ain't the threat they're made out to be, and if it weren't for "western" interventions and crusades like the so-called "war on terror", Islamic fundamentalism would not play any major role in politics in the Arab world.
Over here in the US, the biggest threat to democracy are theocrats in the Catholic and evangelical christian churches who seek to legislate their religious morality onto us sinners, and who have done so with gusto wherever they've been given an inch, and who promote genocidal crusades against Muslims in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, all the while funding and arming the Islamic fundamentalists who we're told out the other side of our government spokespersons' mouths are the people we're supposed to be afraid of. If anything I have far more sympathy for the oppressed and exploited Muslim immigrants who are being told they're not pale enough to live in Germany, or that they've been born into the wrong religious imaginary. If "Islamophobia" offends your sensibilities, I'd be happy to call it plain and simple racial prejudice.
Posted by: fnord | Feb 24 2025 18:51 utc | 55
To Deniz 152 | Feb 24 2025 18:27 utc | 47.
More options are clearly needed.
E> The destruction of "Israel".
F> The destruction of "Israel" and the US.
:)
And I agree the Ottomans are bastards! :D (You probably didn't mean it that way but it's good for half a joke).
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Feb 24 2025 18:51 utc | 56
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 18:44 utc | 53
Yes, but as I said above: the people need time and a few failed attempts to understand that fundamental change is needed. This is perceived as uncomfortable and thus avoided unless no choice.
So it takes 2-3 electoral cycles. With parliamentary systems even longer. That is why France is at the forefront.
In the US the people took the bitter pill of electing Trump again even after all his repugnant personal characteristics. Because they realized that it is the message not the messenger that matters and that message was finally understood.
There are democrats in Trumps admin, when has that happened?
Posted by: alek_a | Feb 24 2025 18:55 utc | 57
apologies if someone has already linked to alastair crookes interview with the judge, but the discussion from 5 minutes into this video, is relevant to this conversation and germany... from 5 hours ago..
Alastair Crooke : Political Implosion in Israel and Political Earthquake in Germany.
Posted by: james | Feb 24 2025 18:59 utc | 58
@ Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 18:44 utc | 53
agree and thanks for your posts.. i concur with alek_a long range viewpoint as well..
Posted by: james | Feb 24 2025 19:08 utc | 59
@Posted by: alek_a | Feb 24 2025 18:55 utc | 56
There is no change, just another variant of the oligarch candidates. The oligarchy has decided that neoliberalism + crumbs and the manufacturing of consent isn't working so well, so now we get the harder version. Trump, Milei, Meloni, the AfD, the French NR, Farage are all the same - newer oligarch options (with the AfD and NR getting suitably fully co-opted). You don't vote out an oligarchy, you just get a new protest candidate which is a different variant of oligarch tool (and they quickly finish off/sideline any real alternatives like Corbyn or the BSW). In the US, the oligarchy has finally understood that there needs to be some more efficient way of running of the Empire.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 19:10 utc | 60
With migration as the top issue, I am reminded by another Brecht quote:
“Some party hack decreed that the people
had lost the government's confidence
and could only regain it with redoubled effort.
If that is the case, would it not be be simpler,
If the government simply dissolved the people
And elected another?”
Posted by: Webej | Feb 24 2025 19:14 utc | 61
In the US, the oligarchy has finally understood that there needs to be some more efficient way of running of the Empire.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 19:10 utc | 59
---
Efficient?
Casey Jones was scaled to death by the steam.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 19:18 utc | 62
On a positive note: 100% of the 50 million votes, all on paper ballots, were counted within 8 hours. There was no strife.
As the old German gag goes, "we were late for the revolution because we had to line up for train tickets". Alles in Ordnung! It reminds me of another classic joke:
Post-war an orphaned German boy is adopted by an English family, but he doesn't speak or say a word. Every night they speak to him, but he eats his dinner and remains silent. One night, however, he pushes the plate away and quietly informs the family why: "Dinner is not satisfactory". Overjoyed that the boy is not mute after all, they question him: "Why have you been so silent until now?". "Up till now", he replies, "everything has been satisfactory".
B is absolutely right to quote Brecht here, but there really has to be no Fressen for Moral to collapse. That's a way off yet...
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2025 19:20 utc | 63
If AfD is a peace party, why does it support the Gaza genocide?
Posted by: Lysias | Feb 24 2025 19:20 utc | 64
What['s] better for...the Palestian people?
A> Their own state. Even if impossible were to happen.
B> Taken over by Israel. (Not a serious question)
C> Taken over by Wall Street for Beach front Condos
D> Taken over by the Ottomans. (think of the Ottomans as bastard Byzantines.)
Deniz-152 - 47
==============
A] I try not to make precise prediction on events described as impossible.
B] With violet "Muslims" willing to slaughter for Anglo-Americ-Jewish amusement?
C] While some delusionals believe this, Trump does not, just a ruse.
D] Speaking of delusional..."Ottomans as...Byzantines"
As Sultan-"El-Supremo" is working with Nazifide-Israel to bifurcate the Levant into a resurrection of an Ottoman-Empire [an-English-schoolboy-fantasy] and Nazifide-Israel working to achieve their fantasy of a "Greater-Israel, it's hard to predict how they will come to terms with the Palestinian extermination process. Will the Palestinians prefer being taken to the Kosher showers the Israelis have on offer or, will the Turkish reputation for bath-houses win the hearts and minds of those to be slaughtered...
A tough one, the Turks, like the English, are "agreement-incapable" as the Byzantines/Numerous-Eastern-European-States/Russians/US/Palestinian/Syrians have discovered to their dismay...one can only hope that the plague the 3LA-directed administration of Hillary/Cheney/Obama/Team-Biden [singular-intended] have unleashed on Syria is visited upon the House of David in the fullness of time.
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 24 2025 19:23 utc | 65
To what extent is the German public aware that it was the US that blew up Nordstream? Do any of the German media tell the truth about that?
Posted by: Lysias | Feb 24 2025 19:24 utc | 66
It seems to me that BSW is in fact the only german party that offers at least a different perspective, not to say an opposition, to the warmongering that is going on. ALL other parties are willing to lead and pay for a full scale war with russia, no exceptions.
So, while I was watching BSW "surprisingly" slide from 10+ to 5- percent in "polls", I was predicting 4.9999% as their final election result. Now 4.97 appears more plausible to the common public I guess. Funny how all other parties, including the liberals at their 4.3% only get one decimal digit in all german papers and other media. Only BSW is honored the second digit ("4.97" instead of just "4.9").
Apparently BSW are trying to question the results and have votes re-counted or something in that vain. If that should happen, it will then be the 4.99999% I predicted and they'll be entitled to 3 more decimal digits in all german media, lol.
Posted by: Grasdackel | Feb 24 2025 19:30 utc | 67
@ Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 19:10 utc | 59
I'm not so sure if the oligarchs here in the US are really so concerned with "efficiency" except as a kind of shibboleth, like how all caudillos are "anti-corruption" while they loot the national treasury and divert taxes to Swiss bank accounts. The auto-destruction of US soft power is unprecedented, and soft power is a lot more efficient than boots on the ground. I have no evidence for this hunch, but the switch from fighting world communism through military intervention to fighting it through NGOs and color revolutions seems like a lesson learned from the failures of the Korean and Vietnam wars, as well as incidents like the Bay of Pigs invasion. Much easier to fund the Cuban ladies in white (among many other groups) than to fund, train, arm, and transport Cuban "exiles" to fight on the ground and potentially evoke a sense of unidad nacional. Ditto for Nicaragua, Venezuela, to an extent Uruguay, Peru.
Posted by: fnord | Feb 24 2025 19:32 utc | 69
"in the US, the biggest threat to democracy are Catholic and evangelical christian churches..." - Fnord 54
As I said before...delusional thinking
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 24 2025 19:33 utc | 70
If AfD is a peace party, why does it support the Gaza genocide?
Posted by: Lysias | Feb 24 2025 19:20 utc | 63
#################
It is impossible to attain political power in the West if one does not bend to the Zionists.
The next generations are less likely to fall for that stuff. The future does not belong to the race supremacists.
It's mostly European and American Boomers who love that stuff.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 24 2025 19:39 utc | 71
The US of A can not be trusted. Their aim is to destroy the unity among the Europeans and other nations including the Russian Federation and the People's Republic of China. The Federal Republic of Germany must kiss goobye to the US of A once and for all. It is the duty of Mr. Joachim-Friedrich Martin Josef Merz to take a leading role in achieving the aforementioned goal at all costs. The German people wants just that and the election results have also shown just that. It is not a secret that the Supreme Commander in Chief from the People’s Republic of China, President Mr. Xi Jinping and the Supreme Commander in Chief from the Russian Federation, Mr. Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin are true friends, always providing mutual support to each other. Today, this loyalty of both leaders was reiterated by Mr. Xi Jinping on the phone which is always highly appreciated in the Kremlin and by the Russian people.
Posted by: pepe | Feb 24 2025 19:40 utc | 72
Posted by: Noirette | Feb 24 2025 18:23 utc | 46
karlof1 posted, at 2:
Thanks b! I was surprised by Merz saying Germany/Europe must become independent of the Americans. That looks good on its face, but what of its reality?
///////
It means that now that the Americans make peace with the Russians Germany/Europe has to distance itself from America. Maybe sanction it or cut the import of fossil fuels as we did with the Russians :-)
Honestly, Merz (Blackrock,Davos) is caught in a trap. His abilities as a neoliberal lobbyist are not needed now. A sense for humility and honesty towards Russia is what the situation needs. Merz will be unable to deliver it. He will fail. But it's impossible to predict in which way.
Posted by: mk | Feb 24 2025 19:40 utc | 73
@Posted by: fnord | Feb 24 2025 19:32 utc | 68
I see the attack of NED and USAID as much more of an intra-oligarchy fight, they were suffused with the old establishment woke guard courtiers. Also, a quick way to shut off funding for Ukraine. No way Trump gives up on the regime change apparatus, which is just being moved into the State Dept. and kept in the CIA for much tighter control. Also, more and more countries were passing anti foreign-NGO and foreign-media laws to blunt the colour revolution machinery.
US soft power was obliterated by the Zionist-driven full on support for the Gazan genocide, there was not much left after that. Those actively and openly taking part in a genocide don't get to keep any high ground. Even the Singaporean elites turned against the US because of this. Of course the Muslim Indonesia and Malaysia are now a lost cause.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 19:41 utc | 74
....To what extent is the German public aware that it was the US that blew up Nordstream? .....
everyone with the exception of politicians and journalists LOL
Posted by: exile | Feb 24 2025 19:42 utc | 75
@ Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 24 2025 19:33 utc | 69
Today? It's absolutely the "christian coalition" around the GOP (especially at state levels in places like Louisiana, Mississippi, Texas, Oklahoma) which is the biggest threat to not only mass democratic participation but also civil liberties, including freedom of/from religion. They are also brazenly corrupt, in a way that would make Huey Long blush, with GOP governor Jeff Landry giving his major capitalist donors not only a velvet glove regulatory treatment, but key positions within the state party and state government. They even privatized the state's medicinal cannabis production to hand over to one of Landry's and the state GOP's biggest donors, robbing the state's universities of the licenses they were granted under the previous administration.
I imagine the Democrats are worse in places like New York and California, where they have always been intransigently opposed to socialism, and have instituted laws aimed at making it harder for socialist parties to even get ballot access. And I urge socialists to make the Democrats their oppositional priority in places where the Democrats are in power - running candidates especially against weak establishment Democrats, even robbing their ballot line if they can, as AOC did before her co-option. But reflexive anti-Democrat sentiment is its own kind of political intoxication, similar to TDS or Russophobia, which leads many people (e.g., Tulsi Gabbard) into the reactionary camp out of spite and resentment. I think a similar situation is happening with the AfD, where many people don't really believe the party's platform, but simply like the oppositional and defiant attitude of the party toward the German political establishment.
Posted by: fnord | Feb 24 2025 19:45 utc | 76
So, how can Trump negotiate peace in Ukraine with Putin if Europe keeps the conflict going?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 24 2025 17:03 utc | 28
He cannot but he can rightly blame the europeans for it and pull out most US support if so he wishes with whatever left on a "cash & carry" basis at their expense.
I would guess the eurocrats and what passes for national leaders can then run Ukraine into the ground, perhaps by the next winter or so.
Posted by: Satepestage | Feb 24 2025 19:48 utc | 77
Posted by: fnord | Feb 24 2025 15:50 utc | 8
No surprise whatsoever that you, specifically, are so fond of Die Linke. A bastion of woke garbage, neoliberalism behind pseudo-progressive slogans and pseudo-intellectual purist wankery, somehow magically ending up as a crutch of the neoliberal establishment and Anglo-American imperialism.
Nor is it a surprise that you consider the based stance of Wagenknecht a "rightist" turn. Like the perfect representative of the utterly degraded western political left that you are, you stand for the exact opposite from all that has elevated actual socialists around the world, often in the face of overt, brutal hostility by the neoliberal imperialists. Is it any wonder that there is no connection between you people and the leftists beyond the EU and the Anglosphere?
Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2025 19:54 utc | 78
He cannot but he can rightly blame the europeans for it
Posted by: Satepestage | Feb 24 2025 19:48 utc | 76
---
When your adversaries fight, let them.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 19:54 utc | 79
So, how can Trump negotiate peace in Ukraine with Putin if Europe keeps the conflict going?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 24 2025 17:03 utc | 28
Let them at it.
Shit or get off the pot Europe as the saying goes.
Let Europe deal with the fallout of their decision.
And this would be extremely bad for all of us.
A Europe run by emotionally incontinent imbeciles, not rational dispassionate political operators.
They can scream and wail but do they want to get kinetic with Russia?
And the hysteria about Russia heading west.
Total bollox and anyone eith any minimal understanding know this threat is a complete red herring
As Vance said European peoples enemies are within.
Posted by: jpc | Feb 24 2025 19:58 utc | 80
Is Europe the Biggest Winner? Have the U.S., China, and Russia Been “Working” for Europe for 30 Years?
https://medium.com/@shutanweizhi01/is-europe-the-biggest-winner-9ec6d8778e4d
Posted by: hole in head | Feb 24 2025 20:00 utc | 81
Well, at least the Rothchilds are happy. €700 billion will be coming their way now from Brussels to keep them in their splendour. Trump and Wall Street are happy too, 63% of that €700 billion in arms sales and the uber expensive LNG will keep flowing as well.
Posted by: Ogre | Feb 24 2025 20:01 utc | 82
Well, at least the Rothchilds are happy.
Posted by: Ogre | Feb 24 2025 20:01 utc | 81
---
The debt hasn't been priced yet. Yet alone resold.
These same geniuses are still holding the bag for Twitter.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 20:04 utc | 83
Roger Boyd @ 53:
The new German chancellor is likely to be such an avid champion of privatisation of essential state industries and social welfare services - because, among other things, his former Blackrock employers will be be beneficiaries, and they will reward him with a post-politics board director position - that people in eastern Germany are likely to start pushing for their own state again. Especially if Merz comes out in favour of sending soldiers to Ukraine.
I have no idea how easy secession may be in Germany or even if it is legal there, but it could be as basic as states holding citizen referendums on the issue of independence or privatising services considered by the public to be essential to a properly functioning society and state.
We may see Germany collapse politically as well as economically some time over the next few years.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Feb 24 2025 20:08 utc | 84
D] Speaking of delusional..."Ottomans as...Byzantines"
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 24 2025 19:23 utc | 64
So, what happened then? Did the 8 million people in Byzantine Empire get executed by the Seljuks? Every last Christian barber, baker, footsoldier and shopkeeper replaced by a barber, baker, footsoldier and shop keeper from the Steppes? Or was there a changing of the gaurds in which a 100,000 or so ruling elites, clergy and officer brass got the "axe" but the blacksmith just switched from making Cruciforms to scimitars? The changing of the icons is a bloody affair, but not all that it is cracked up to be.
Palestinians are 85% Sunni, most should be fine under the little Sultan.
Posted by: Deniz 152 | Feb 24 2025 20:13 utc | 85
Now 4.97 appears more plausible to the common public I guess. Funny how all other parties, including the liberals at their 4.3% only get one decimal digit in all german papers and other media. Only BSW is honored the second digit ("4.97" instead of just "4.9").
Apparently BSW are trying to question ...
Posted by: Grasdackel | Feb 24 2025 19:30 utc | 66
I rather think this is to avoid confusion. Correctly rounded 4.97 would be written 5.0. Everybody would then ask, why dont they get parliament seats, as 5% is the threshold.
Posted by: umuntu | Feb 24 2025 20:18 utc | 86
@ Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 18:44 utc | 53
Agree.
The servility of the German establishment to Uncle Sam is embarrassing.
The servility of the Brussels establishment to Uncle Sam is embarrassing.
For a prosperous and reasonably peaceful future look East - not West.
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 24 2025 20:22 utc | 87
Sarah wants to limit migration? I thought, during her Linke days, she claimed accepting all the migrants is German responsibility and repaying for participation in destroying Africnan and Arab societies. I thought she was supporting "more" not "less" migration?
Posted by: Arioch | Feb 24 2025 20:24 utc | 88
Sarah wants to limit migration?
Posted by: Arioch | Feb 24 2025 20:24 utc | 87
---
BSW wants a responsible migration policy. One that responds to the current situation.
Obviously the policy must be reflexive and not static.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 20:30 utc | 89
"...did the 8 million people in Byzantine Empire get executed by the Seljuks?...Palestinians are 85% Sunni, most should be fine under the little Sultan" Deniz-152 84
Many were, others were castrated, others coerced into military service...killing their fellow Christians, then there is the slave trade...yeah. As for blissfully endorsing the slaughter of 15% a given population? Hmmm..I'll let your moral compass guide your path but...not mine thank you very much. Now I will grant you, the Ottomans, in their decline, were less cruel than their Turkic-successor. Surely you you know how coastal Greek-speakers were forcefully driven into the interior as individuals to be ethnically submerged until they supported Turkic oppression or, left to die alone...not to mention the Armenian experience... Yeah, the Ottoman's are fine fellows indeed, a shining light that has guided Nazified-Zionist ever since.
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 24 2025 21:09 utc | 90
Breakdown of vote by age profiles here - v. interesting
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 24 2025 21:36 utc | 91
Roger Boy @ 59
Lol, everywhere that you use the word oligarchy you should have inserted- City of London, controlling bankster cabal. It fits/suits our present and sorry predicament much better.
To get to the heart of it all in just a few words...Trump has been selected to be the spanner in the works to destroy the usa and it's people after all wealth has been sucked out of her to then move all operations Eastward where the chabad members Putin, Xi and that Iranian pres will take over. After a shit ton of white christian, europeans, americans and a smattering of ME folks die off first.
Posted by: bisfugged | Feb 24 2025 21:39 utc | 92
Alice Weidel - spouse is an immigrant from Sri Lanka (who she has kept very quiet about)
Donald Trump, grandson of German immigrants - wife is an immigrant from Slovenia
J D Vance - wife is daughter of Indian immigrants
Marco Rubio, son of Cuban immigrants - wife is daughter of Colombian immigrants
But they hate immigrants right? Yeah right. And Musk is most probably an illegal immigrant from South Africa. Do as they say, not as they do is the rule for the oligarchy.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 24 2025 21:43 utc | 94
I was taught that the difference between 'essen' and 'fressen' is that it is animals that 'fressen' while humans 'essen.' 'Fressen' certainly applies to the oligarchs who have been devouring the world...50% of retail sales is attributable to the top 10% in wealth.
Posted by: JohnH | Feb 24 2025 21:44 utc | 95
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 24 2025 21:09 utc | 89
Do you seriously want to make a body count between Western Empire and the Muslims during a Judaea-Christian genocide?. Why don’t you just admit that fanatical “Christian” nations are far more genocidal and stop the dishonesty, I’ve heard it all my life and frankly the hypocrisy is nauseating. What period of time do you want to talk about? The Crusades? The Discovery of the New World? The slave Trade in Africa? The British Empire in India? WW1? WW2? The Korean War? Vietnam? Iraq? Libya? South America? Africa? The million dead Ukrainians and their hustler President? Etc., etc., etc. We spent the past 4 years worrying about whether an Alzheimer’s patient President is going to trigger the end of civilization over a pissing match with Putin because Hillary Clinton lost the 2016 election.
Do you want to have a serious conversation or not?
Posted by: Deniz 152 | Feb 24 2025 21:47 utc | 96
The formation of a CDU-SPD coalition hinged on BSW (Bündnis Sahra Wagenknecht) not getting into parliament — which it didn’t do by a handful of votes.
Fabio DeMasi, BSW MEP, explains the irregularities in the vote and the dirty tricks the establishment pulled to stop the party:
“After counting all 299 constituencies, the BSW stands at 4.972%. So it is 0.028% short of the 5% threshold to get into parliament. If I can still do the math clearly, that is about 13,000 votes out of just under 50 million voters who cast their ballots.
13,000 votes represent about 6% of the 213,000 Germans living abroad registered in the electoral register who were significantly prevented from voting.
The actual formation of a government also depended on our entry. This morning from 10 am (after a massive media campaign against the party in the past few months) false exit polls were distributed, which spread like wildfire and only served the purpose of confirming that we had no chance of entering the government.
The public broadcaster denied that the exit polls came from them and were a leak. This will be subject to a criminal investigation.
The supposed exit polls coincided with an absurd Forsa survey that fell out of step with the other surveys a few days before the election and suddenly gave us at 3% — which has been proven to influence voting decisions”.
@Slavyangrad
Posted by: Ko | Feb 24 2025 21:50 utc | 97
@Slavyangrad
Posted by: Ko | Feb 24 2025 21:50 utc | 96
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The same story as related by Frau Dr. Wagenknecht herself:
4,972 Prozent: Wir machen weiter! ==> https://youtu.be/e0UIIVDE2rw
Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2025 21:57 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
"100% of the 50 million votes, all on paper ballots, were counted within 8 hours."
And yet in the Untied States (spelling deliberate) we're regularly told that, like having decent healthcare for all, is impossible. It's good for the PTB that very few Americans spend any time in other countries.
Posted by: Brian Bixby | Feb 24 2025 15:28 utc | 1