Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 10, 2025
China Urged To End Successful Policies

In a variant of the Sowing Doubt About China – But At What Cost? propaganda scheme, the New York Times makes the (somewhat racist) claim that China lacks the capability to turn talent into innovation:

What DeepSeek’s Success Says About China’s Ability to Nurture Talent (archived) – New York Times, Feb 10 2025

The subtitle reveals the core thesis:

China produces a vast number of STEM graduates, but it hasn’t been known for innovation. Cultural and political factors may help explain why.

In a globalized world the innovation ability of a country can be measured by the number of global patents it files.

The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) provides data on these.


bigger

China, which the NYT says is not known for innovation, is by far leading the pack.

One might argue that China, with four times the population of the United States, should have innovated even more than that. But seen under this aspect the U.S. is also far from the top.

Per million inhabitants China filed 1.2 patents per year while the United States filed 1.5. But the real leaders here are South Korea with 5.5 patents per year per million people followed by Japan with 3.3/y/million.

Real world numbers are not sufficient to support the NYT's central thesis. That is why it barely mentions some. Its argument comes down to a political one:

Pavel Durov, the founder of the messaging platform Telegram, said last month that fierce competition in Chinese schools had fueled the country’s successes in artificial intelligence. “If the U.S. doesn’t reform its education system, it risks ceding tech leadership to China,” he wrote online.

The reality is more complicated. Yes, China has invested heavily in education, especially in science and technology, which has helped nurture a significant pool of talent, key to its ambition of becoming a world leader in A.I. by 2025.

But outside of the classroom, those graduates must also contend with obstacles that include a grinding corporate culture and the political whims of the ruling Communist Party. Under its current top leader, Xi Jinping, the party has emphasized control, rather than economic growth, and has been willing to crack down on tech firms it deems too influential.

If that is indeed so why is it supposed to be bad?

Is it really healthy for a country to have Apple, Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon and Alphabet (Google) leading in Market Cap? The author fails to follow that question.

She instead misleads about the alleged crack-down:

Beijing has blessed the A.I. sector — for now. But in 2020, after deciding that it had too little control over major companies like Alibaba, it launched a sweeping, yearslong crackdown on the Chinese tech industry.

The crack-down against Alibaba owner Jack Ma came when he tried to expand Alibaba into the so called fin-tech business.

Juggling with credit and various derivatives thereof is a part of the economy that is better to be kept under control. The 2008 mortgage credit crisis and the following government bailout of private banks have taught as much. Pouring money and talent into a sector that is not productive and carries high risk is not in any societies' best interest.

In an aside the NYT author comes near to acknowledging that:

(DeepSeek’s founder, Liang Wenfeng, pivoted to A.I. from his previous focus on speculative trading, in part because of a separate government crackdown there.)

How can one conclude from there that China still has to liberalize?

But the best way for China to capitalize on its well-educated, ambitious A.I. work force may be for the government to get out of the way.

China's government planning and control over education and its economy has led to its astonishing rise.

Lacking the abundance of capital which OpenAI and other U.S. companies are spending on their attempts to monopolize their fields, DeepSeek had to innovate. It did so and has beaten its competition.

How less government intervention would have led to a better performance than China has shown is difficult to argue. The NYT for one fails at it.

Comments

no matter how you slice it or dice it – China has some MAJOR (financial) problems
Posted by: WMG | Feb 10 2025 15:31 utc | 41

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_default

Posted by: too scents | Feb 10 2025 18:45 utc | 101

“Not one person here has noted that China doesn’t have to worry about DEI because everyone is Chinese. ”
PR China has 56 ethnic groups in China, with various privileges.

Posted by: lester | Feb 10 2025 18:47 utc | 102

P.S. Parent-teacher meetings are done in a group, the better for public shaming of negligent parents.
It would never work in the West – the parents would gang up on the teachers.

Posted by: BillB | Feb 10 2025 18:48 utc | 103

“Not one person here has noted that China doesn’t have to worry about DEI because everyone is Chinese. ”
PR China has 56 officially recognized ethnic groups in China, with various privileges. Sorry I needed to make a correction.

Posted by: lester | Feb 10 2025 18:49 utc | 104

Yves is riding the dead horse of private finance in our society.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 10 2025 17:15 utc | 75

That is the butter on her toast. Do you want her to eat dry toast?

Posted by: too scents | Feb 10 2025 18:51 utc | 105

“Why hasnt Russia done the same then ?”
Posted by: Lavrov | Feb 10 2025 15:32 utc | 42
According to what I read on some russian blogg
Russia has relatively recently reformed education by turning back to the high quality they had before they let western liberalism determine how they ought to organise eduction. For example I think russian history was written according to western truth.
The emphasis after the recent reform is to raise competitiveness in the STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) subjects no doubt.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Feb 10 2025 19:05 utc | 106

@two scents (#101):
Perhaps it will come to that. Or perhaps the chinese debtors will simply run out of money. I don’t know.

Posted by: WMG | Feb 10 2025 19:06 utc | 107

perhaps the chinese debtors will simply run out of money.
Posted by: WMG | Feb 10 2025 19:06 utc | 107

Let me assure you that the State creditors have the strong hand.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 10 2025 19:12 utc | 108

Ahenbarus, the US is not a capitalist country. “Capital” is a depreciable asset, a truck, factory, machine, even a storefront. Capital is not finance, investment, software, consulting, or any of that. “America is all about the latter, paper pushing, that’s “mercantilism” if you like, but it’s not “capital” nor capitalism. Russia, China, the Soviets and Chi-coms were all, always capitalists. They/we were all keenly focused on securing natural resources to refine in production facilities. People get hung up on labels, as if the DDR or DPRK were “Democratic”
Socialism, Communism and Capitalism are meaningless pejoratives and nothing more
Posted by: Scottindallas | Feb 10 2025 17:54 utc | 82
Right. Very American attitude, Scott.
Let me ask you this: can a billionaire, or any petty capitalist, turn a profit without extracting surplus value from a living wage slave?
Economics is a science Scott. Even the bourgeois can accept we live in a Capitalist society. Just saying it doesn’t exist doesn’t change socioeconomic reality. Nothing is produced no matter how important unless it turns a profit for a billionaire.
For Socialism, I refer you to Marx. Have you tried to read anything by the man? I expect not.
I know you’re an American, but ignorance is not strength, believe it or not. You remind me of MSM denying reality in Ukraine. Embarrassing.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 10 2025 19:29 utc | 109

China and Russia holds the upper hand going forward and the US of A is building an irreversable trap for themselves without realizing what they are doing. In the mean while, as expected the Gaza deal is about to collapse (again!) while the people in the West Bank are getting destroyed and displaced by the Zionists.

Posted by: pepe | Feb 10 2025 19:32 utc | 110

Why they are really attacking China !
These 2 are a must read if you are person that has freed themselves from GROUPTHINK. Learned to think for themselves.
Economics as politics and philosophy rather than some independent science
Here:
https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=62352
And..
The decline of economics education at our universities
Here:
https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=62349
After those people who are free from GROUPTHINK have read those two outstanding articles explaining in detail why at the heart of it why they don’t understand China.
Ask yourselves…
Why is it when you just look at Trumps tariffs proposals through a political lens and not through an economics lense. They are not treated The same.
The standard argument is that they are protectionist, inflationary, and bad for global trade. But there’s an irony here: the European Union has had its own Common Customs Tariff (CCT) for years, yet it rarely gets the same criticism.
As Brexit reaches its five-year mark, it’s worth examining the double standards in how tariffs are discussed—especially who they benefit and who they hurt.
Trump proposed to slap a 25% tariff on imports from Canada and Mexico and a 10% tariff on Chinese goods, citing concerns about illegal immigration and drug trafficking. Critics say these measures threaten free trade and could spark trade wars.
However, the EU’s CCT—which imposes standard tariffs on imports into the bloc to protect its industries—rarely faces the same backlash. Why are Trump’s tariffs considered reckless while the EU’s are just part of the system?
Answers on a postcard.
In theory, tariffs make imports more expensive, meaning consumers and businesses in the importing country foot the bill.
Yet, when it comes to Brexit, we often hear that the UK “pays” tariffs and other non-tariff barriers on exports to the EU—when, in reality, it will be EU consumers who end up footing the bill.
Answers on a postcard.
This inconsistency is telling. When Trump imposes tariffs, the media focuses on how they will raise costs for American consumers. However, with Brexit, the focus shifts to how UK exporters suffer while ignoring the cost to EU consumers. This selective storytelling distorts the accurate picture of how tariffs work.
The EU tariff regime is treated as a given, while Trump’s tariffs are seen as a shock to the system. But why?
That’s when you get to the crux of the issue why they attack China.
Political and ideological bias. The backlash against Trump’s tariffs often seems driven more by opposition to Trump himself than by a consistent economic argument. The media and policy elite view EU protectionism as a sophisticated and stabilising force while portraying Trump’s tariffs as reckless and populist. But in practical terms, both are tools used to favour domestic industries and manipulate trade flows.
Brexit offers another example of this double standard. The EU’s tariffs on UK goods are framed as a deserved consequence of leaving the single market, a form of economic gravity that Britain must accept. Yet, the UK’s ability to unilaterally drop tariffs on imports—potentially lowering costs for consumers and businesses—is brushed off as insignificant. The assumption appears to be that tariff regimes imposed by large, established players who believe they are in the right, like the EU, are justified. At the same time, those set by disruptive actors like Trump or post-Brexit Britain must be reckless.
This reflects a broader political reality: power determines perception. With its internal market and regulatory clout, the EU has embedded its anti-free-trade tariff system into global trade norms. Trump’s tariffs, by contrast, challenge the status quo, making them an easy target for criticism. Whether a tariff is seen as sensible or destructive often has less to do with economics and more with who implements it.
Brexit has provided a real-world lesson in how tariffs function, and Trump’s changes will provide another. Instead of relying on political spin or theoretical ‘counterfactuals’ that are little more than wishful thinking, we should take this opportunity to rethink our approach to trade policy—one based on facts rather than assumptions.
Criticism of Trump’s tariffs is often inconsistent, particularly when compared to the EU’s CCT and the trade policies related to Brexit. If tariffs are harmful, why do we accept them in some instances but not others? We need to confront this double standard if we are to engage in a rational debate about trade.
As global trade shifts, it’s time to move beyond the usual talking points and ask more challenging questions about how tariffs work and who they truly serve.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 10 2025 19:32 utc | 111

Posted by: pepe | Feb 10 2025 19:32 utc | 110
>> excuse grammar typo, meant “hold”….

Posted by: pepe | Feb 10 2025 19:37 utc | 112

I don’t believe that PR China wants to rule the world the way the US does now, with violence. China has been around for millenia. These is a pattern. in 1776, when the US declared independence, China was once of the most powerful countries in the world, politically and economically. They did not try to rule the world, but rather sold their manufactures to all comers. I expect PR China will do the same.

Posted by: lester | Feb 10 2025 19:43 utc | 113

In response to

Yves is riding the dead horse of private finance in our society.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 10 2025 17:15 utc | 75

That is the butter on her toast. Do you want her to eat dry toast?
Posted by: too scents | Feb 10 2025 18:51 utc | 105

Personally, I think eating a bit of crow is in order at the appropriate time….which I hope to live to see.
######
To WMG
You don’t seem to understand that China has public finance so, as a sovereign country, they can create their own money as necessary.
Public/private finance as part of the form of social organization is what the civilization war we are in is all about and guess which side you are on?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 10 2025 19:47 utc | 114

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 10 2025 19:32 utc | 111
That was a sensible analysis. You should stick to talking about tariffs and leave monetary theory alone. While your criticisms of the gold standard have some merit, the insistence that currency issuance doesn’t matter is just way off base. That’s why you’re getting so much push back.
MMT is a very effective way of draining real capital from society writ large and repurposing it for governmental ends, which could be lavish social benefits or endless wars or USAID-esque social programming. But eventually everybody gets sick of the social and economic distortions it creates – it makes A LOT of poor people – and you get civil unrest. I mean, do you think the US has become more stable or less stable since it wholeheartedly embraced “deficits don’t matter” a couple decades ago?

Posted by: Joy Polloi | Feb 10 2025 19:51 utc | 115

Russia’s significantly not on the patent list. Is it sanctioned from submitting them? There seems to be no concern about Russia’s level of innovation coming from Russia as it just celebrated another Science Day.
IMO, the BigLie Media line of China’s to be feared then items like this saying China is behind in this or that is more reflective of the West’s inability to promote a new Narrative than anything else. And if the Outlaw US Empire is generating all those patents, where are the commercial products that ought to be related to them? Innovation is supposed to be realized in the marketplace. The only new things I see are higher prices.
Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 10 2025 15:49 utc | 45
————————————————-
I have an earlier posting under |13.
My patents were awarded some ten years after the innovations occurred, suggesting that innovations or rather the rate of innovations is not well represented by looking at patents alone.
The countervailing view on the benefits bestowed by patents in terms of trade protection is Time To Market. The faster you can get you innovation to market to more market share you start with. Early to market captures the biggest chunk of product life cycle earnings.
If the Russians are not afraid of ‘copycat’ manufacturing patents will not help them much.
Microsoft Word (before Windows) was a copycat of an internal Xerox product. Bitmap displays, pioneered with the Alto, have become ubiquitous. Never patented, as far as I know. There are many computer mice on the market these days. The originals that I knew were not patented.
Innovation occurs when there is a need, IMHO. Pushing for patents will get you patents, seen that one, too.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Feb 10 2025 20:08 utc | 116

But again, there’s a reason why Chomsky and many smart people know AI is all hype, there haven’t been any revolutions in the 3000 year old study of epistemology. Humans don’t think using logic, logical systems only offer tautologies, though Eastern thoughts on the dichotomy of identity offer some different perspectives. But nothing groundbreaking.
Posted by: Scottindallas | Feb 10 2025 18:14 utc | 89
It’s and hybrid, Each Chinese character (logogram) is typically treated as one token, even if it represents a word or part of a compound. on western languages tokenization often breaks words into subword units (e.g., “unambiguously” → “un”, “ambigu”, “ously”).
But it can use any token from any language he trained on.

Posted by: Newbie | Feb 10 2025 20:27 utc | 117

Re fentanyl, etc., why do so many in the USA want to use them? Legalize everything, like in 1900, and we’ll empty our prisons. Organised crime will look elsewhere for profits.

Posted by: lester | Feb 10 2025 20:29 utc | 118

@Lex #10
The notion that Musk is going to “kill” American research is out loud laughable.
Kill DEI bullshit masquerading as research, sure.
Kill grant seeking, big name university money grubbers masquerading as academics, sure.
Even the public data on what the various US government organizations fund for science, pre-DOGE, was shocking in how many obviously bullshit projects were being approved.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 20:40 utc | 119

@Sun Of Alabama #25
If you are trying to say the West believes and acts on a gold standard – then you are deluded to an enormous degree.
What you are seeing, but clearly not correctly analyzing, is the struggle between those who benefit from less money printing vs. those who benefit from more.
That’s really all there is to it. Gold Standard is something which very rich people love because it cements their relative wealth into perpetuity. And, of course, the concept is easy to sell to fools.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 20:46 utc | 120

@too scents #30
Not correct.
Nobody is required by law to accept zero coupon bonds as payment for anything.
Cash, on the other hand, is a different story.
I am actually surprised that there are not more lawsuits over this – for places to refuse to accept cash.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 20:48 utc | 121

@KevinB #32
Clearly you are not aware that China is not 100% Han. Even excluding the Mongols, Uighurs and Tibetans, there are large numbers of different ethnicities in China like the Miao.
I believe there are over 50 recognize ethnic subgroups in China.
Furthermore – there are gay people in China.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 20:51 utc | 122

@polkadot #34
Please do tell about these fundamental American innovations.
And no, software does not count.
String theory? LOL

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 20:52 utc | 123

@Tom Pfotzer #35
There is no productivity paradox.
Productivity increases in the past converted to increases in standards of living.
The only reason this relationship was broken is the Western paradigm of economic rewards e.g. inequality.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 20:54 utc | 124

Posted by: Joy Polloi | Feb 10 2025 19:51 utc | 115 The US embraced deficits just two decades ago? Skipping over the willingness of every ruling class to see military expenditures as a priority, so that no war was ever declared bankrupt and never will be…it was Reagan who almost doubled the deficit. Imaginary history is no foundation for understanding, however convenient a talking point.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Feb 10 2025 20:56 utc | 125

@WMG #41
Sorry, but straight line extrapolations of short term trends into the future NEVER work.
Equally, the birthrates in the West coupled with mortality are actually much worse than Russia and China – particularly if you exclude the 90s for Russia and the 60s/70s for China.
Don’t emulate dumbfucks like Zeihan. Todd, I give a pass because he is ultimately not a technical type but rather a sociologist/philosopher.
Anyone who understands compounding, understands just how little birth rates matter in single or even 2 generation times scale (i.e. 35 to 70 years).

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 20:59 utc | 126

“But outside of the classroom, those graduates must also contend with obstacles that include a grinding corporate culture and the political whims of the ruling Communist Party. Under its current top leader, Xi Jinping, the party has emphasized control, rather than economic growth, and has been willing to crack down on tech firms it deems too influential.”
Complete bullshit.
This issue was taken note of many years ago by the government:
“996” Culture Global Times 2019

China’s fast-growing tech economy has witnessed a fierce competition among internet companies and the opportunities are too vast in China for those companies to take a laid-back approach. As a result, tech companies routinely work long hours which has created a “996” work culture among Chinese internet companies. The prevalence of this “overtime culture” reflects China’s dete rmination to succeed, as is shown in the success of China’s internet giants such as Alibaba, Tencent and Baidu. In fact, Alibaba founder Jack Ma stated that working overtime has helped his company grow to become what it is today and that working long hours in the industry is necessary for start-ups to survive and grow.

And was addressed:
Global Times 2021

The Supreme People’s Court (SPC) of China and the Ministry of Human Resources and Social Security recently jointly released a guideline illustrating 10 typical cases of overtime work, stipulating that the “996” overtime work policy is illegal. Two departments formulated legal standards for the disputes regarding working shifts systems, overtime compensations, paid holidays and workers’ rights and interests.

And appears to be enforced:
Global Times 2024

After reviewing the case, the Beijing No.3 Intermediate People’s Court ruled that Li’s work, which involved using social media for work purposes during off-duty hours, weekends and holidays, went beyond simple communication. The nature of this work was characterized by periodicity and regularity of using social media platforms, distinguishing it from occasional and incidental communication. It should be considered as overtime work. Based on this, the court ruled that the company should pay Li 30,000 yuan ($4,179) for overtime work.

Posted by: Dim sim | Feb 10 2025 21:01 utc | 127

@Chris Cosmos #61
Why are you surprised?
NC has always been a liberal-lite PMC centric outfit.
The only saving grace was that they used to have a really nice set of (liberal/left leaning) stories. I appreciated the half dozen, plus or minus, stories of note sprinkled among the dross in their daily collection.
With the transfer of operations, however, the quality has declined to maybe 1 or 2 a day, sometimes zero. If this keeps up, I won’t even bother going to NC for that.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 21:02 utc | 128

@Scottindallas #71

Posted by: c | Feb 10 2025 21:04 utc | 129

The claim that DEI is ruining STEM seems to forget to bother checking any facts. It is not clear that DEI programs have infested STEM with hordes of useless women, melanin scarred inferiors or dubious bedroom athletes in actual numbers. Nor is clear the DEI programs are much more often anything other than obnoxious training sessions done for PR in lieu. Most of all, it is not at all clear that women or African Americans ruined GE or Boeing: I think the money men did that. It’s not clear that MBA programs are meritocratic in any sense, including in what they deem to be merit. Skill at exploiting labor and getting ahead in finance is useful how? Even law schools are not particularly woke. The Federalist Society sees them as good recruiting ground!
The more the Chinese copy Western-style economics, political science, law and sends their graduates on the fast track, the less value they will get from their examination-based hurdles to higher education? How is socialist credentialism better than capitalist credentialism?

Posted by: steven t johnson | Feb 10 2025 21:07 utc | 130

“Innovation occurs when there is a need,
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Feb 10 2025 20:08 utc | 116”
Over the long term, many countries will have a couple centuries of scientific/technological progress, interspersed by longer periods of little change. Most people do not like change, so high tech periods are always relatively short. E.g, Song dynastry China was an invenetive period and saw the rise of printing, gunpowder, gear-wheall clock, the magnetic compass, and much else. The Yuan dynasty, the Mongols, spread gunpowder and the compass, eg, throughout the world. Printing did NOT spread. Neither Islamic nor Christian societies wanted printing. (Why societies learn or reject foreign inventions if another interesting topic!)
Once the MIng dynasty throughout the Mongols (1300s), China was closed to foreign trade and technology did not change much. By the time of the Opium War (1840s) Chinese military technology no longer led teh world, to say the least.

Posted by: lester | Feb 10 2025 21:07 utc | 131

@Scottindallas #71
The theory is that progressive taxes encourage investment.
The reality is that they do not. Look around you – we have had progressive taxes in the US for over 100 years – as investment gone up or down?
The answer is: down. WAAAAY down.
Furthermore, advocates of progressive income taxes forget that the era in which it *may* have worked was when the US was on a gold standard.
Why do we need individuals, wealthy or otherwise, to donate their money for savings in a fiat system?
China sure didn’t bother with this nonsense. China’s rise is precisely paralleled by its truly enormous printing. If we arbitrarily choose say, 1985 as the “start” of the Chinese industrialization boom – China has printed 3400% of its 1985 GDP over its progress to doay. Almost literally none of China’s growth is from “investments” due to “progressive tax” inducement.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 21:09 utc | 132

excuse me. threw out the Mongols.

Posted by: lester | Feb 10 2025 21:10 utc | 133

The more the Chinese copy Western-style economics, political science, law and sends their graduates on the fast track, the less value they will get from their examination-based hurdles to higher education?
Posted by: steven t johnson | Feb 10 2025 21:07 utc | 130
#########
WUT?
The Chinese are “winning”. Why would they stop the course they are on to adopt the losing strategies of the West?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 10 2025 21:17 utc | 134

125 – I remember some muted complaints about the trade deficit in the USA in Reagan’s time. It has only got worse since.

Posted by: Waldorf | Feb 10 2025 21:24 utc | 135

@Waldorf #135
The true master of the Deficit was the Democrat: Lyndon Johnson.
He blew so much money that the US was forced to break its own Bretton Woods agreement.
But of course, the Dembot poster you reference would never admit that.

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 21:33 utc | 136

The USA has manifested an utter narcissist as a president again (2.0) who is drunk on his own self-admiration and abusing the power given to him already. (Narcissism is not actually self-love).
It is not for any insignificant reason this has happened, because the political class and its media of make believe propaganda is representative of a country where many are also drunk on a form of national narcissism. Like Narcissus gazing at your own self in the reflection of a pond with such ego-driven self-admiration spells the beginning of the end. Narcissus admired himself to death.

Posted by: George | Feb 10 2025 21:58 utc | 137

“China produces a vast number of STEM graduates, but it hasn’t been known for innovation. Cultural and political factors may help explain why.”
To boost innovation and creativity education needs to be based on the Renaissance model which encourges pupils to develop into well rounded individuals, rather than the STEM model which appear to produce adults adept at finding solutions for problems that don’t exist.

Posted by: Arthur Foxake | Feb 10 2025 22:05 utc | 138

@Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Feb 10 2025 16:35 utc | 61
I only use Naked Capitalism for links usually, for which it is very useful. But today I erred with a seemingly innocuous comment about China GDP per capita growing at 5%, but her highness would have none of that. I replied to her spurious reply and my comment disappeared until a prepared riposte was readied. Then I pointed out the basic mistakes in the riposte and my final comment was disappeared for ever.
I will include my little contretemps with her in a piece on the controlled opposition and fake progressive/left. You are absolutely right, she does not want an open comments discussion but more a carefully curated and ideologically compliant set of commenters that align with the early twentieth century progressive era style superficial “fixes” to American capitalism. Her background is McKinsey and Wall Street, which fits well with her very mainstream economic and financial views.
She lost ideological control of the comments section so threw a hissy fit and did the equivalent of taking the ball away by cancelling comments.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 10 2025 22:18 utc | 139

Posted by: Arthur Foxake | Feb 10 2025 22:05 utc | 138
Posted by: steven t johnson | Feb 10 2025 21:07 utc | 130
################
Let’s be real, no one is rushing in 2025 to emulate the Western way of doing anything.
You guys with your chauvinism and cope.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 10 2025 22:19 utc | 140

@Posted by: too scents | Feb 10 2025 18:51 utc | 105
She lives in Thailand, probably has something else for breakfast. The condensed milk on her donuts?
https://www.thai-food-online.co.uk/blogs/thai-food-online-blog/5-traditional-thai-breakfasts?srsltid=AfmBOopZySF80OL1bMaa8NPvulyB5ySnd70xbX-P2BNh4PjJk15QDb1G

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 10 2025 22:26 utc | 141

Imagine if there had been no ‘East India Companies’ and their spawn the ‘Investment Bankers’ that stole the precious metals and ‘treasures’ of China (and Africa,India and Americas) by the large scale poisoning of Chinese peoples through the growing, processing, monopolisation and sale of the original Opium Of The Masses.
Yes it took a generation of that ‘force feeding’ to destroy thousands of years of evolved built in , innovation instinct, in the vast China that as many know gave rise to pretty much most items that made Europe ‘rich and powerful’ – right down to plates and cups and metallurgy ..etc etc
Almost as if some had planned its decapitation and capture of all these transformative forces from the masses to the few who control it now. Or did until recently as we are daily observing.
It lead to stagnation in China (qnd the other ancient civilisations) and the invention of the Atomic Bomb as the culmination of the Renaissance. By way of some useful things like petroleum and electricity and computing. (not everything was bad, don’t get me wrong)
The thing about IDEAS is that they can’t be un-idea’d.
They can’t be owned and controlled and put in warehouses like Opium, or unique Art, or piles of earths natural resources deemed to be an analogue of real wealth.
Wealth is not Money. A tree is a tree, dyes and paints are decorative materials, Flint is a rock- they have some element of potential wealth. But the Chair or Great Painting or axe and arrow heads made from them is Wealth, Real, valuable to who desires it, useful …
But what imbues the raw material into that real wealth?
it is the craftsmen who have generations of passed down knowledge and tools and mental capacity and imagination to make such things.
A D’vinci or aother westen Artists creations stand apart from millions of wannabe van Goghs… Churchill, Hitler and Biden Hunters ‘paintings’ are not comparable even if they use the same materials. Neither is the fake modern art of such hothoused and then promoted by advertising tycoons works of the factory owner employer artists as Damian and Tracey…
I know that for a fact knowing people who studied with them and of their abilities compared to others who were not picked by the Saatchi brothers to engender the garbage new world of Centerists Blairism and Third Way paths of Clintonism…the neofascists of the never ending wars of this century.
The wars they have finally been beaten in. Again.
Such reimagining of Economics shows that for what it has always been – pseudo religion.
No, actually a neo-Religion. Economics is RELIGION not SCIENCE.
New media are real. They are the message (Marshall revealed that long ago) they did create new paradigms and equally have their neo-religious worshippers – as once did the printing presses and their story books which replaced the oral traditions of verisimilitude by knowledge passed down from parent to child without error.
The concept of capturing ideas by creation of a system of belief in a ‘contract’ and lawyer high priests who construct, interpret and judge as some self declared self chosen supreme beings reprenting some inviolable law of nature – is fake.
Or do we want the Chinese to come collecting back royalties for centuries use of gunpowder and the rest?
It has been inculcated into western ‘civilisation’.
(‘It sounds like it might be a good idea to get around to it’ as Gandhi might have said!)

Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 10 2025 22:28 utc | 142

The true master of the Deficit was the Democrat: Lyndon Johnson.
He blew so much money that the US was forced to break its own Bretton Woods agreement.
But of course, the Dembot poster you reference would never admit that.
Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 21:33 utc | 136
When Johnson was pres the US still had a trade surplus.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_balance_of_trade#/media/File:U.S._Trade_Balance_(1895%E2%80%932015)_and_Trade_Policies.png
1970 was the year US per capita oil production peaked. A steadily increasing per capita oil ptoduction before 1970 was the basis of continuous US Trade surplus. That then turned into a continuous trade deficit.

Posted by: jinn | Feb 10 2025 22:29 utc | 143

Just FYI:
A new snooping & censorship eh moderation eh safety tool has been born today but hey, it’s just for the kids, you know (but we need access to your data!)

Leading Technology Companies and Foundations Back New Initiative to Provide Free, Open-Source Tools for a Safer Internet in the AI Era
Today, the Robust Open Online Safety Tools (ROOST) initiative launched at the Artificial Intelligence Action Summit in Paris. Incubated at the Institute of Global Politics at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs, ROOST is a new non-profit organization that brings together the expertise, resources, and investments of major technology companies and philanthropies to build scalable, interoperable safety infrastructure suited for the AI era.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/leading-technology-companies-and-foundations-back-new-initiative-to-provide-free-open-source-tools-for-a-safer-internet-in-the-ai-era-302371243.html

Posted by: Zet | Feb 10 2025 22:44 utc | 144

It’s very strange how the media have function around the west for the last thirty or twenty years. The actual amount of “news” in newspapers of today is very little. Most of the time what is printed or publish in several newspapers is either propaganda or articles of opinions like this one conjured from half-ideas and much of nothing. And it’s even stranger this persistent habit of journalists of talking about what other journalists talked instead of actually report stuff.
I don’t have numbers to back this up, but I would be genuinely surprised if most newsrooms around the west have a single writer actually capable to speak fluently mandarin (or Russian for that matter) in their staff with a substantial knowledge of the political and economic realities of the countries they write about.
What actually happens in most cases is that a lazy journalist sit in front of their PCs or Notebooks will use this article to back their own article about the lack of innovation in China because after all it was published in the all-mighty New York Times, and they know what they are talking about right? Next you will see the same opinion being upheld and discussed across major newspapers in France, Germany, Italy and so and then any political problem from the lack of steam in the west (actually U.S.) tech industry will sort itself out since “the Chinese don’t innovate because they simply don’t” and that’s it.
They act as reality simply doesn’t matter and act shock when it bites their ass.

Posted by: Graciliano94 | Feb 10 2025 22:44 utc | 145

It’s not racist to believe that the Chinese may not be as good at innovation as Western Europeans. If you spend time around them as an academic, you will realize that Northeast Asians are more intelligent on average but less innovative. It’s a simple observation. If you doubt it, read Charles Murray’s Human Accomplishments and note where ALL the major scientific breakthroughs for the past 2,000 years have taken place.

Posted by: Tony Lawless | Feb 10 2025 22:47 utc | 146

Posted by: jinn | Feb 10 2025 22:29 utc | 143
###########
Johnson was still an incredible POS. Gulf of Tonkin, etc.
Another American President soaked in blood.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 10 2025 22:49 utc | 147

Graciliano94@145…..they write what they are paid to write…….that they lack an audience of critical thinkers, is a shame…..
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 10 2025 22:50 utc | 148

If you doubt it, read Charles Murray’s Human Accomplishments and note where ALL the major scientific breakthroughs for the past 2,000 years have taken place.
Posted by: Tony Lawless | Feb 10 2025 22:47 utc | 146
#############
Narrative reinforcing Colonizer propaganda.
Like when Trump said the Russians stole hypersonic tech from America. He didn’t mention how China and Iran independently developed the same capability. Maybe the Russians made photocopies?
The “greatest” Western innovation thus far is men becoming pregnant.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 10 2025 22:52 utc | 149

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 10 2025 21:17 utc | 134 Because the Chinese educated in Western-style economics, law, political science and sociology are learning that socialism doesn’t work and all the good things come from free markets, which they are also told is Western-style so-called democracy? Also since the question mark is mystifying symbolism, substitute “If the Chinese promote graduates of MBA programs and lawyers educated in Federalist Society debating club and such, I don’t understand how they really get much benefit, no matter how high these people scored on their entry exams. The word if may have two letters but it’s still a big word.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 10 2025 22:19 utc | 140 Have no idea why you would pair me with that commenter, who advocates private education of the elites, as opposed to public education of all. And the people who claim the PRC is capitalist very much believe the current government is in fact doing markets the Western way. Elsewhere I have disagreed, but of course you have no responsibility to scour all my comments.
Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 21:33 utc | 136 No, the crisis in the London Gold Pool that triggered the break was preceded by France withdrawing and the devaluation of the pound, neither of which were Johnson’s doing. Gold is no guarantor of stability, no matter what the gold bugs say. As I said in my comment @125, no bourgeois government ever allows the budget to stop their war. But Johnson responded to the inflationary pressures not by deficit spending but by raising taxes (quite unlike Reagan who created his deficits without a major war) via a surtax, a temporary %10 addition to personal and corporate income taxes (albeit with exemption for lower tax brackets.) As ever, the Trump worshipper lies.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Feb 10 2025 22:57 utc | 150

@ Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 10 2025 22:18 utc | 139
While I wait to see if b releases the second of my two part post having written one very long one…and broken it because it didn’t appear.
I haven’t ever really got around to NC and ‘Yves’ – impressed that she is in Thailand, same part of the world as Brian Berletic that does geopolitics.
I haven’t been for a few years but the food especially the street food is very impressive as is their ability to eat half a dozen times a day with extremely hot chillis we ICJ makes them cry with pain – figured out it’s the feels of endorphins in the brain that keeps the Thai smile perma fixed !
Regarding the blogosphere , there are some sites where the owners are a bit picky about the subjects and opinions posted by us hoi polloi.
Like as I recently found after years of posting been cancelled from sometimes temporarily like Craig Murray’s. Now also Prof Murphy’s – who is an MMT proponent and Tax Professor.
Opinions on which I generally learn/or agree from and others which when going into geopolitics are pretty much straight on ii/77th state directed almost. There are the daily few regulars allowed which all seem to leave a liberal state view point that tends to poootin phobia and anti Corbynite Labour whilst being anti establishment without calling a spade a spade – Guardianista types – which leaves the comments sitting on a very wobbly centerists wall – it sort of ended up turning into some echo chamber policed seemingly directly by integrity initiative agenda controlling types it seems … I have no qualms about being censored for legitimate or unreasonable to me reasons – it’s after all, their sites – but it does leave a taste of something awry in The state of Denmark type feeling.
This and Craig Murray’s are more main go to’s and of course the regular immense work of @GeromamAT though I never joined twatter and have spared myself and them from my bat shit crazy guanostorm meanderings.
Dreaming of Thailand and my favourite Laantaa. More Muslim foods down south but still a haven for beach bumming.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 10 2025 23:11 utc | 151

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 21:09 utc | 132 There is no single theory held by advocates of progressive taxation. The insinuation that promoting investment is, is a deceit. I will further note that high progressive income taxation did not hamper productive investment in the US for decades like the Forties and Fifties and Sixties. But cutting progressive taxation in the Eighties etc. did not. Further, a gold standard did not provide stability in the Depression of 1893, when there was no income tax at all, much less in the Great Depression of the Thirties. More lies, as to be expected.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Feb 10 2025 23:14 utc | 152

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 10 2025 22:18 utc | 139
I will add that this also parallels my experience with Naked Capitalism. The dishonesty regarding China mars their other coverage. One of their admins Lambert had an obsession with “proving” that China had just as many COVID deaths/long COVID cases as the US. Who knows what will happen if really comes to light that the UNC prof Baric was actually the “creator” of this virus. https://www.propublica.org/article/near-misses-at-unc-chapel-hills-high-security-lab-illustrate-risk-of-accidents-with-coronaviruses
For those who might be actually interested in learning more about the nuances of certain areas of China’s economy, I suggest Glenn Luk.
https://www.readwriteinvest.com/p/project-finance-with-kweichow-characteristics
https://www.readwriteinvest.com/p/debt-and-the-chinese-economy

Posted by: altruisticpunisher | Feb 10 2025 23:34 utc | 153

I’m somewhat surprised this article has yet to be cited as evidence that the Outlaw US Empire is on fentanyl. “China develops ground-air dual-mode drone for Mars exploration featuring lightweight, energy-efficiency” I’d like to post a photo of this amazing machine, but barflies will need to click the link to see it. When NASA held its competition for the lunar rover, I was in Hawaii where many of the trials were held and was able to see several versions in person. China’s first Mars rover war very similar to NASA’s. What China has done here is to think as far outside the box as one can get, IMO. My one question: Will it be able to generate enough lift in Mars’s thin air with its rotor engine and blades as it clearly can fly here on Earth?

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 10 2025 23:49 utc | 154

Not exactly Uighurs this is a Muslim Villa in China.
5 minutes will blow your mind when you see the standard of living.
*link*
Sure this is a wealthier situation but no signs of concentration camp facilities or forced labor.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 10 2025 23:55 utc | 155

Dreaming of Thailand and my favourite Laantaa. More Muslim foods down south but still a haven for beach bumming.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 10 2025 23:11 utc | 151
____
The only thing I didn’t like about Ko Lanta was that strange feeling on my last day when I exited the bungalow and put on my shoes. Only much later did I discover that I’d crushed a baby frog in the process.

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 11 2025 0:10 utc | 156

Deepseek and AI conference in Paris – hence NYT puerile propaganda
# On Russian STEM see recent on kalofi subtrack
# fyi
The Global Distribution of STEM Graduates: Which Countries Lead the Way?
Brendan Oliss, Cole McFaul, and Jaret C. Riddick
November 27, 2023
… Throughout most of the 20th century, the United States and Europe—particularly Russia, Germany, the UK, and France—were considered the global centers of scientific and technological education. In the last few decades, however, new players have emerged. In Asia, countries like China, India, South Korea, and Japan rapidly expanded their STEM education programs and today produce significant numbers of graduates in STEM fields.
Figure 1 below shows the top eleven countries by number of STEM graduates in 2020. To perform this analysis, we draw on national education data and rely on the International Standard Classification Education framework developed by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), as well as the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development’s designation of STEM fields. We further describe our approach to this study in the “Methods” section below.
Figure 1 reveals a new shift in the global distribution of STEM graduates compared to the 2016 World Economic Forum report. The WEF report identified China, India, the United States, Russia, Iran, Indonesia, and Japan as the top seven STEM graduate-producing countries in the world. As of 2020, however, we find that Brazil and Mexico surpassed Iran and Japan in the number of graduates in STEM fields.
[see Figure 1] China 3.57m; India 2.55m; USA 820K; Russian Federation 520K
# % total graduates in STEM fields: China 41%; Russia 37%; Germany 36%; Iran 33% ;
………. India 30%; …….. USA 20%
https://cset.georgetown.edu/article/the-global-distribution-of-stem-graduates-which-countries-lead-the-way/
Nuff said!

Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 11 2025 1:05 utc | 157

The Chinese government should tell the Americans that, when they require their advice on tech (or anything else for that matter) they’ll ask. Till then, the USshould shut-the-fuck-up and get its own ducks in a row; Peking or otherwise!
Posted by: Vragtes | Feb 10 2025 18:44 utc | 100
This REMAINS the most ridiculous message board I’ve encountered. Even “b” is losing it.
Trump just puppy slapped China on the snoot in Panama. The Chinese are OUT of any control of the Canal ports. Just that simple. Panama NEEDS the US more than they need the Chinese. Who are doing NOTHING that is even remotely altruistic. They build some vital infrastructure in Africa … they OWN IT. Not on first glance but they do.
Got it? Chinese are technological thieves. But, their system cannot produce an Elon Musk or the brilliant young AI studs he’s let loose on the American Kleptocracy that America … enables. They’re not gonna be allowed over at our top tech universities anymore to infiltrate our labs and engineering pods.
Let’s see how they do. They have a demographic time bomb underway.

Posted by: NigelTufnel11 | Feb 11 2025 1:20 utc | 158

Posted by: c1ue | Feb 10 2025 21:09 utc | 132 There is no single theory held by advocates of progressive taxation. The insinuation that promoting investment is, is a deceit.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Feb 10 2025 23:14 utc | 152
The reason progressive income taxation was implemented is that it is an economic stabilizer for capitalist economies which are inherently unstable. The reality of progressive income tax is that when incomes go up the tax on those incomes goes up at a faster rate and when incomes go down the rate of taxation goes down at a faster rate. This is known as the “automatic stabilizer”, often attributed to Keynes.
For example, the so-called “fiscal stimulus” following the 2008 meltdown of western capitalism was due to the reduction in taxes from upper income earners reduction in income. The actual laws passed (like TARP) that were promoted as fiscal stimulus actually made profits for the US Treasury which means they were not a stimulus but a drag on the economy. The only actual fiscal stimulus that made any big difference was due to the progressive income tax. One can only speculate how much larger that automatic stimulus would have been if the progressive income tax had not been weakened repeatedly over the previous 45 years.
As for whether progressive income tax encourages investment -> any income tax encourages investment if the tax system is structured to exempt investment in one way or another. It encourages owners of capital to invest profits rather than take as income and pay tax.

Posted by: jinn | Feb 11 2025 1:35 utc | 159

@NigelTufnel11 | Feb 11 2025 1:20 utc | 159
Hi Nigel. Any relation to Phil? I believe he played a bit – bit like yourself.
WTF has Panama Canal got to do with innovation/R&D/STEM?
The Chinese can still traverse the canal – assuming there is sufficient water and if the US decides not to stop all Chinese traffic which would lead to some strange results.
Don’t suppose you are a STEM graduate Nigel? Didn’t think so.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 11 2025 1:40 utc | 160

If you don’t understand that everything right now in TrumpWorld is aimed toward a strategic foray toward Russia in the Arctic and China in the Western Hemisphere? You’re not getting Geopolitics post January 20 if you don’t. The Ukraine and Gaza stuff is secondary on his Foreign Policy Plate. Which is subordinate to the serious Civil War he’s engaging (and winning) domestically.
Why do you think Trump focused on Canada/Greenland/Panama immediately after taking office?
Well, the Arctic is the most important geopolitical chessboard in our current time. All that global warming ya know! And, Trump has ZERO patience for any Chinese influence in the Western Hemisphere after they’ve been seeding Fentanyl through Mexico and Canada to the US this past five years.
You’re not living here, or absent lunatic hatred, to not understand America is different today than a month ago. The World is improving. Just fucking relax, already.

Posted by: NigelTufnel11 | Feb 11 2025 1:48 utc | 161

Don’t suppose you are a STEM graduate Nigel? Didn’t think so.
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 11 2025 1:40 utc | 161
No, but I’m literate Donny. Panama was introduced in my riposte to shitcan his dumb comment about China’s dismissive approach to the United States of America.
Trump arrived. Panama’s “Belt and Road” association was over. Within a week. Got anything else? Care to re-educate me on the difference between sine and cosine? Have at it.

Posted by: NigelTufnel11 | Feb 11 2025 1:56 utc | 162

O/T from USAID saga.
All the fedgov spending details are at
DataRepublican.com

Posted by: Suresh | Feb 11 2025 1:59 utc | 163

The World is improving. Just fucking relax, already.
Posted by: NigelTufnel11 | Feb 11 2025 1:48 utc | 162
###########
You’re right. Trump is accelerating the West’s decline. The world is getting better as he destroys America’s soft power capabilities. Russia already handled hard power.
Let’s see how he rolls over the 10 trillion in debt that is coming due this year.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 11 2025 2:02 utc | 164

You’re right. Trump is accelerating the West’s decline. The world is getting better as he destroys America’s soft power capabilities. Russia already handled hard power.
Let’s see how he rolls over the 10 trillion in debt that is coming due this year.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 11 2025 2:02 utc | 165
Don’t worry about it. We got it. Worry about Ukraine and your future digging out of demolition. Repair your own shit, Europe. Quit worrying about us. We’re BACK.

Posted by: NigelTufnel11 | Feb 11 2025 2:06 utc | 165

Posted by: NigelTufnel11 | Feb 11 2025 1:56 utc | 163
Are you talking about the following strategy?
The seemingly random US plan to take over Panama, Greenland, Canada, and Gaza is not random at all.
It’s all part of a plan to control the world by dominating the planet’s main sea routes, and replace the Suez Canal, analysts say.
The four places are the globe’s key international trading gateways.
– Panama is the route that joins Asia-Pacific to the Atlantic.
– Canada is the location of the Northwest Passage that joins Russia to the west.
– Greenland is alongside the new China-Russia arctic passage.
– And Gaza is next door to a new Alternative Suez Canal that will be controlled by the US and Israel.
New Secretary of State Marco Rubio said that the Trump administration’s new “energies rely on shipping lanes”, adding: “we need to be able to defend that.”
But there are literally no competitors threatening to attack the world’s key shipping gateways.
The only country threatening to invade Panama is the US.
The only country threatening to invade Canada is the US.
The only country threatening to invade Greenland is the US.
And the only country that has announced the clearance of Gaza is the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijbi86QTlQk

Posted by: Zet | Feb 11 2025 2:16 utc | 166

Oh, and by the way, Trump’s tariffs are essentially sanctions on the US.
He’s trying to do what the sanctions did to Russia. Who was it who said that the sanctions basically had been a gift to Russia and its economy? So like Biden, he’s trying to re-industrialize, just with brute force. Will it work? I doubt it but it’s the last chance the empire has.

Posted by: Zet | Feb 11 2025 2:33 utc | 167

“We conclude that when applied to a large, resource-rich, technically proficient economy, after a period of shock and adjustments, sanctions are isomorphic to a strict policy of trade protection, industrial policy, and capital controls. These are policies that the Russian government could not plausibly have implemented, even in 2022, on its own initiative.”
From
https://www.ineteconomics.org/research/research-papers/the-gift-of-sanctions-an-analysis-of-assessments-of-the-russian-economy-2022-2023

Posted by: Zet | Feb 11 2025 2:36 utc | 168

Another point, the cream of stem in the USass are sought out, recruited and groomed into a lifelong career for the Merchants of Death !
Exhibit A
Lockheed Martin Work Experience Program – Career Services
University of Central Florida
https://career.ucf.edu › resources › lockheed-martin-wo…
The UCF Lockheed Martin College Work Experience Program (CWEP) allows undergraduate and graduate students to gain real-world work skills and abilities.
Students and Early Careers
Lockheed Martin
https://www.lockheedmartin.com › careers › candidates
Embark on an extraordinary career with Lockheed Martin’s aerospace internships, where students and early career professionals can unleash their potential.
‎Internships · ‎Community College Programs · ‎Apprenticeships · ‎Meet our Interns
Lockheed Martin College Work Experience Program
The University of Texas at Arlington
https://www.uta.edu › careers › students-alumni › lm-co…
CWEP is a 2-consecutive, semester-long (at minimum) program that is open to both undergraduates and graduate students. LMC’s core work hours are from 9:00AM – 3 …
UCF/Lockheed Martin College Work Experience Program
University of Central Florida
https://grad.cecs.ucf.edu › UCF-CWEP-FA23
PDF
CWEP is a 2 (consecutive) semester long program that is open to both undergraduates and graduate students. • CWEPs work between 15-25 hours per week (Monday- …
11 pages
People also

Posted by: denk | Feb 11 2025 2:58 utc | 169

@c1ue | Feb 10 2025 20:54 utc
c1ue: There is no productivity paradox. Productivity increases in the past converted to increases in standards of living.
Tom replies:
True until about yr 2000. In the last 50 years productivity has increased faster than the U.S. population’s ability to _pay_ for consumption. More or less same for other developed countries. Most of the West is experiencing declining std of living .vs. prev gens; it comes out in surveys that show fairly broad pessimism. You’ve seen that data, do I need a link for it? Kids in, for ex., Japan and a great big portion of flyover U.S. are on drugs because of that (economic) pessimism.
Look at industrial capacity utilization here in U.S.
It’s at about 78 percent, and that’s after a lot of of production got off-shored. (Read that as “got moved to where the demand was”).
Here’s cap utilization across most of the world’s mfg’g nations. Only a few countries are over 80 percent, a lot are significantly lower.
How come that productive capacity isn’t running flat out?
Because buyers.
How come buyers aren’t present? Everyone wants a higher std of living, as you assert, and you’re right.
The paradox of productivity is “productivity tends to reduce the need for labor. But laborers are the buyers of the production. So if productivity increases enough, buyers can’t buy, demand falls”. The more efficient you get – in aggregate, across all prod lines – the fewer widgets you sell once you cross the “kicked out too many laborers” threshold. And we’ve crossed it.
Productivity can make demand fall, c1ue. Shows up in the cap utilization numbers, shows up in the household debt numbers, shows up in the real-wage-growth numbers. They are, in my view, indicating that demand is being curtailed by can’t-afford-it syndrome.
And that trend is likely to continue. Recall your remark a few weeks back re: AI is now targeting the professional-managerials, and it’s likely to whack the manufacturing segment but good, again.
Where’s buying power going to come from?
So there is indeed a paradox: the more productive we get, the fewer jobs there are. Unless – and this is the big “unless” – somehow people who aren’t earning money from labor are enabled to buy, maybe via new debt, transfer payments, or passive income from investments.
Those three non-labor sources of buying power are on thin ice here in the West. Not stopping tomorrow, but they’re tailing off, are they not?
Do you agree that labor – real wages – is under fierce pressure, which is likely to continue?
So where do you see new buying power coming from over the next few decades?

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Feb 11 2025 3:04 utc | 170

fyi
Philip [Phil] Clive Roderick Tufnell is a former English international cricketer and current television and radio personality. A slow left-arm orthodox spin bowler, he played in 42 Test matches and 20 One Day Internationals for the England cricket team, as well as playing for Middlesex County Cricket Club from 1986 to 2002
Phil’s dreaded SPIN – slow left-arm orthodox spin bowler
Tufnell does SPIN.
@Zet | Feb 11 2025 2:16 utc | 167
Spot on. Over and out.

Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 11 2025 3:06 utc | 171

@ NigelTufnel11 | Feb 11 2025 1:48 utc | 162 who wrote

And, Trump has ZERO patience for any Chinese influence in the Western Hemisphere after they’ve been seeding Fentanyl through Mexico and Canada to the US this past five years.

You are asserting China was/is pushing Fentanyl on poor innocent Americans when the reality is the opposite….trying to make your/our problem someone else’s is a common ploy of those not taking responsibility for their actions like faith breathers.
Find another bar. You won’t find this one very friendly to your ignorance.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 11 2025 3:09 utc | 172

Green land, Panama, Malacca etc etc, its all about controlling the maritime chokepoints,…putting a boot on China’s jugular , er, ‘protecting the sea lanes from…..’
Old timers please skip,,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgspkxfkS4k

Posted by: denk | Feb 11 2025 3:14 utc | 173

What a terror it would be in Western circles to think that China has overcome the dominance of the ‘invisible hand’ of Adam Smith, that they can successfully plan an economy to a huge degree.
My greatest hope is that both Russia and China overcome the tragic problem exposed by Chris Rock’s humor – in which drug companies never develop cures, if they can avoid it, because “they want the come back money” – and so create endless chronic dependency ($). How can this awful stagnation ever be ended by a Congress owned by drug companies (including liberals, exposed now)?

Posted by: Eighthman | Feb 11 2025 3:14 utc | 174

In response to

So where do you see new buying power coming from over the next few decades?
Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Feb 11 2025 3:04 utc | 171

I can only envision the evolution to a minimum social safety net and a conscious return to physical labor over machines where it is fulfilling and desired by humans.
If we go the totalitarian direction lots of us useless eaters will be disposed of and only enough money slaves will be retained to provide security and machine running…..and getting to that level will be ugly.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 11 2025 3:18 utc | 175

The Fentanyl thing is so funny because only the Trumpers parrot that, completely ignoring how addicted Americans are to prescription drugs.
The CIA runs the global illicit drug trade, not China.
USAID was giving the Taliban money for “farming”.
What do they grow in Afghanistan? Poppy.
What is Poppy used to make? Heroin.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 11 2025 3:31 utc | 176

Posted by: Tom Pfotzer | Feb 11 2025 3:04 utc | 171
#############
Post WW2, most American buying power came from debt and money printing. Not productivity, some of it due to patents, trademarks, and copyright.
Europe was converted to vassalage, as was Japan.
America was truly productive before the Great Depression as it started to overtake the declining British Empire.
I thought a lot about that this week. What product or good does America make today, that the rest of the world badly wants to purchase?
It’s not ICE (or EV) cars, it’s not tech, and in another decade, it won’t even be entertainment.
Can’t have productivity without production.
Buy American? Trump wants to force people to buy American, and he is trying to collapse other economies to cherry-pick the best businesses (which already have brands and market share established) the way the West has been brain-draining the Global South for decades. These are win-lose zero-sum games.
China has buying power. It doesn’t waste money on war, punishes corruption ruthlessly, and runs a trillion-dollar trade surplus without colonization or IP. With the trade surplus fueling their sovereign wealth fund, they invest in ports, infrastructure, and resources all over the world.
Heck, they even got the Saudis and Persians to kiss and make up. More win-win.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 11 2025 3:50 utc | 177

Do folks still read that awful propaganda rag?

Posted by: Kay | Feb 11 2025 4:09 utc | 178

Lol @ NigelTufnel11
He should get himself a new dial going upto 21 now!
What with inflation and all that since he initially had one made to go to 11.
The rest of us will stick to 10 maximum.
Being fuddy duddy old stick in the muds hat most of us barflies are.
Anyway disrupted sleep due to a new lurgy that suddenly gripped me some 24 hours ago.
I’m heading back to sleep if I can – a ‘new strain’ that’s suddenly arrived in my part of London …there was a strain over Xmas and new year which i shrugged it off quite quickly. Many had it persisting for whole of January as well . But they were all multiple vaxxed.
This one’s reminiscent of the first one in jan 2020. Chest and nose currently. Body seems to be fighting it off pretty quickly. Not feeling as fluey – maybe just a ‘normal’ winter cold.
I tend to pick things up early. Let’s see if it’s just a passing ‘cold’.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 11 2025 4:33 utc | 179

Here are 2 examples of the impact of AI. AI simply will REDUCE the demand for workers and especially “Tech workers”. More productivity with AI ==> lower employment.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/08/business/ai-job-losses-by-2030-intl
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/04/tech/ai-tech-layoffs

Posted by: WMG | Feb 11 2025 4:39 utc | 180

Posted by: altruisticpunisher | Feb 10 2025 23:34 utc | 153
>>>
All viruses are made in the US of A.

Posted by: pepe | Feb 11 2025 4:55 utc | 181

Personally, I think eating a bit of crow is in order
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 10 2025 19:47 utc | 114

You can pretty sure that Yves/Susan, as a fresh unacculturated immigrant, is served crow frequently. That must be disorienting at her age.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 11 2025 6:04 utc | 182

I’m still stuck on the basic questions, like: What is innovation? Is having more of it axiomatically a good thing or is it more like a high proportionality of unique mutations in organisms where it becomes detrimental after a certain point? Is technological progress uniformly beneficial or can such progress undermine civilizational progress? And that’s without getting in the weeds of what ideal government regulation of business and research looks like, or what the optimal system for social organization is.
I’m amazed how these questions all seem to have been resolved at some point, their answers taken as granted despite not being referred to even in an indirect capacity.

Posted by: Skiffer | Feb 11 2025 6:12 utc | 183

Posted by: Skiffer | Feb 11 2025 6:12 utc | 184
#############
Have they been resolved, or have we been given systems that we follow based on how the herd around us moves?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 11 2025 6:33 utc | 184

I am going to take this moment to remind everyone that Trump will “probably” retire after this term.
Whatever he is trying to do today, may be reversed with the next admin, Republican or Democrat.
I’m too OCD to do a job like that where the shift change could erase all of my labor.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 11 2025 6:35 utc | 185

The Capitalists inside the Communist Party of China are constantly culling unproductive forces from their economy

Dozens of PwC China partners step aside after audit ban
Disclosure suggests Big Four firm has lost state-owned and finance sector clients

Dozens of PwC China partners have left their roles in recent months in the wake of a ban over its audit of failed property developer Evergrande.
The firm’s mainland China entity disclosed to a finance ministry database of certified public accountants in December and January that 66 people were “no longer partners”, though it is unclear if they have left the firm.
The disclosures are made whenever partners join or step aside from the partnership.
A separate registry shows the mainland firm had 277 registered equity partners as of Tuesday, including 65 of the departing partners, indicating a cut of more than 20 per cent.
The reduction in PwC China’s partner ranks is the biggest in five years and comes after authorities imposed a six-month ban in September and fined the firm more than $60mn for “concealing or even condoning” fraud during its audit of Evergrande.
The disclosure highlights the toll on PwC as it navigates the aftermath of regulatory scrutiny. The reduction is far greater than at its Big Four rivals Deloitte, EY and KPMG, which each reported single-digit partner departures last year.
https://www.ft.com/content/e42b4266-c1ae-44a6-9614-71239e00126a

Posted by: too scents | Feb 11 2025 7:04 utc | 186

In other news: China breaks Hollywood with the release of “Ne Zha 2”.
deepseekR1, Black Myth WuKong and now Ne Zha 2.
China is winning.

Posted by: Inevitabllity | Feb 11 2025 7:39 utc | 187

How China pursues its successful policies

China raises $47bn for chip industry in drive for self-sufficiency
‘Big Fund’ completes its largest round to date with makers of equipment for chip factories expected to be main beneficiaries

May 27 2024
China has concluded its largest funding round to date in support of its embattled semiconductor industry, with the so-called Big Fund raising Rmb344bn ($47bn) to aid President Xi Jinping’s self-sufficiency drive in the face of US efforts to restrict the country’s access to the latest technology.
The third round of the fund, officially called the National Integrated Circuit Industry Investment Fund Phase III, is China’s largest pool of capital to be targeted at seeding companies and technologies to overcome what Beijing refers to as “chokepoints” for its chip industry. It has been assembled from contributions from the finance ministry, local governments, state-owned enterprises and, for the first time, state-owned banks.

People familiar with the matter have said the third fund will target Chinese makers of equipment for chip factories, after the previous two rounds ploughed capital into semiconductor manufacturing.
News of the funding lifted a swath of semiconductor stocks in China. The shares of SMIC, China’s top chipmaker, jumped 7 per cent in Hong Kong, while rival Hua Hong rose nearly 5 per cent. Shares in Chinese etching equipment maker Naura rose more than 5 per cent.
After Beijing approved a third round for the Big Fund, the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT), which leads the initiative, initially struggled to raise capital from local governments and state-owned enterprises reeling from an economic downturn.
This led to the country’s state-owned banks also being approached for funding. China’s six biggest state banks — including the largest, Industrial and Commercial Bank of China — are now on board as shareholders, according to the government-run corporate registry. The six lenders hold a combined 33.1 per cent stake in the third chip fund, contributing capital of Rmb114bn.
The fund has 19 shareholders, with the finance ministry’s contribution of about Rmb60bn making it the largest one, with a 17.4 per cent stake. China Development Bank Capital, affiliated with the country’s top policy bank, is the second largest, with a 10.5 per cent stake. State-owned giants such as China National Tobacco Corporation and China Telecom also invested in the new fund.
The Big Fund is chaired by Zhang Xin, an official who previously worked as a first-level inspector in the MIIT’s planning department. Zhang was promoted to the fund last year after a tough anti-corruption investigation took down its previous leader, Ding Wenwu, and more than 10 other executives linked to the fund.
https://www.ft.com/content/175a36b0-c928-4285-bbc1-41b6026e4f92

Posted by: too scents | Feb 11 2025 7:42 utc | 188

China had been the most productive economy and the most innovative people in most of the recorded human history. Almost all the pre-modern, plus a lot of modern inventions were due to or based on Chinese works.
Besides the well-known inventions like gunpowder, compass, paper, silk, porcelain, printing, paper money, tea-making, rocket, iron smelting, spinning machine, mechanical clock and many others, research by Chinese scholars in recent years has uncovered many ancient Chinese inventions and discoveries that were previously thought to be done by Europeans – e.g. invention of mathematical logic, calculus, classical geometry, gravity, classical mechanics, heliocentric model, calculation of radius of the Earth, etc.
As late as the late 19th century, Europeans were still actively trying to steal technologies from China. Just a few random examples:
1. The British East India Company sent his thief Robert Fortune to steal Chinese tea planting, nursing, and processing technology. Even that, it took him over a decade from 1848 to 1860s to accomplish the task, and he had to persuade (more like kidnap) at least eight Chinese masters to India to help him. This caused the single largest transfer of wealth from China to Britain.
From the book “For All the Tea in China: How England Stole the World’s Favorite Drink and Changed History” by Sarah Rose.
2. The French sent missionary to Chinese to steal “”everything from technological plans to bags of malaria-curing cinchona bark.” From 1712 to 1722, however, the most important technology was stolen. Francois Xavier d’Entrecolles went to the porcelain capital of the world, Chinese city of Jingdezhen, to steal the tech that made the cultural icon and the world most prized secret.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/porcelain-corporate-espionage-china-missionary-dentrecolles
3. Look at the sophisticated Chinese weaving spinning machine depicted in the book 《天工开物》, published in 1637. It required two persons to operate and produced the most complicated fabric design unmatched for the next 200-300 years.
https://baike.baidu.com/pic/%E5%A4%A9%E5%B7%A5%E5%BC%80%E7%89%A9/29312/2907979804/f31fbe096b63f6246b606c40490ffcf81a4c510f0516?fr=lemma&fromModule=lemma_content-image#aid=2907979804&pic=0b46f21fbe096b63f6243413c2789044ebf81a4c0616
Now compare that with the western “state-of-the-art”, supposedly pivotal machine of the industrial revolution, the Jenny spinning machine (1770-1800s), copied from China, then stolen, spied on and re-stolen among European countries and United States:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0947/7524/files/spinning-jenny.jpg?v=1534773278
“Britain Steals Italian Spinning Technology
Germany Steals British Spinning Technology
USA steals British Spinning Technology”
https://www.allaboutlean.com/industrial-espionage-and-revolution/
Some other pioneering works by Chinese that were later copied by Europeans and later claimed inventions:
朱载堉发现十二平均律 mathematical theory of musical notes
https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%8D%81%E4%BA%8C%E5%B9%B3%E5%9D%87%E5%BE%8B/592297
宋慈’s book《洗冤集录》,法医著作 pioneer in forensic science
https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%B4%97%E5%86%A4%E9%9B%86%E5%BD%95/848029
吴简 book《欧希范五脏图》 pioneer in anatomy
https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%AC%A7%E5%B8%8C%E8%8C%83%E4%BA%94%E8%84%8F%E5%9B%BE/7657845
杨介 book 《存真环中图》 human anatomy
https://www.sohu.com/a/387994760_562249
classic Chinese medicine book 最大胆的中医典籍——《医林改错》 王清任 (qing dynasty)
https://www.sohu.com/a/245567966_562249
吴有性 discovered the micro-organs cause of infestious diseases in the book《瘟疫论》
李时珍’s book《本草纲目》”Compendium of Materia Medica or Great Pharmacopoeia”, is an encyclopedic gathering of medicine, natural history.

Posted by: d dan | Feb 11 2025 7:55 utc | 189

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Feb 10 2025 22:18 utc | 139
Yes, she is like that. Better to stay away.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 11 2025 9:25 utc | 190

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 10 2025 23:49 utc | 154
NASA already demonstrated that it is possible to fly objects in Mars’ thin atmosphere. Check the Ingenuity (Ginny) helicopter.
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/9843428

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 11 2025 9:37 utc | 191

Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Feb 10 2025 16:35 utc | 61
This experience with comments at naked capitalism appears to be a common one. With even reasoned, reasonable and polite responses to some of the vitriol directed at posters asking serious questions censored by not appearing. I have lost count of the number of occasions in which someone is hauled over the coals and no reply is forthcoming because Yves makes sure any such replies do not appear. Having experienced this recently, the only reference points I have is that of attempting to deal with a mardy child or a know nothing middle manager.
Whilst Sebgo’s comment (83) is valid up to a point, the context is that the site projects this ethos of open discussion and clearly does not do what it says on the tin. With Yves taking her bat and ball home whenever someone raises fundamental questions or catches her out on a point.
Frankly, I’m surprised guest writers, like Michael Hudson to take one example, put up with such an intellectually dishonest attitude and the behaviour which derives from that attitude. Any site which only wants yes-men/women is going nowhere and is headed for irrelevance.

Posted by: Dave Hansell | Feb 11 2025 9:52 utc | 192

@Zet | Feb 11 2025 2:16 utc | 167
That (his age) would explain a lot.
Dementia combined with ridiculous Facebook ‘news’consumption most of his generation has fallen victim to.
Incoherent ramblings jumping from one irrelevant non-issue to another.
I wonder how these characters end up in here?
I heard how afwul the NHS is in his ‘great’ Britain.
Maybe nobody had noticed pops had escaped from his care facility and wondered of in his pyjamas.
Can someone come get him?

Posted by: Ed Bernays | Feb 11 2025 9:59 utc | 193

Posted by: Skiffer | Feb 11 2025 6:12 utc | 184
Those are big questions.

What is innovation?

Finding original solutions to present problems.

Is having more of it axiomatically a good thing or is it more like a high proportionality of unique mutations in organisms where it becomes detrimental after a certain point?

It is not a good thing per se. Its goodness depends on context. One example: chlofluorocarbons was a great non-toxic innovation for the problem of cooling air BUT they deteriorated one key part of our planet’s kindness with life forms so they have be entirely removed from our technologies.
The analogy with mutations is not correct because mutations are random while innovation is directed.

Is technological progress uniformly beneficial or can such progress undermine civilizational progress?

It is not always beneficial. Some species go extinct because of external forces while some species go extinct because of their own evolutionary path. Humans may go extinct because of their own evolution into a technological species, if a big rock from space doesn’t kill us all before going extinct on our own.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 11 2025 10:03 utc | 194

Posted by: Dave Hansell | Feb 11 2025 9:52 utc | 193
Mmh, she did honorably accept several of my criticisms, even recognizing that my calculations were correct and hers were wrong wrt some specific issue.
But eventually she asked me to get out of her website, which I did.
Later she asked me to return to comment on her posts.
I declined.
IIRC, she is a big fan of MMT so that’s why Hudson collaborates.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 11 2025 10:12 utc | 195

I am going to take this moment to remind everyone that Trump will “probably” retire after this term.
[…]
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 11 2025 6:35 utc | 186

Trump’s influence will not retire … individual candidates will want the Trump endorsement and at the very least will dress in the MAGA cloak even if they don’t believe it for a minute. Think Rubio, for example.

Posted by: Tel | Feb 11 2025 10:19 utc | 196

@ Posted by: d dan | Feb 11 2025 7:55 utc | 190
Thanks for that and hopefully all the sinophobes can shut tfu here.
All others can retract their ignorant attitudes and beg forgiveness for their error prone opinions.
It is important to note that the structured use of the SubContinent (equally robbed of its own Civilisational industry) as the place to attack China from was a joint European process. Just because Britain ended up in charge at the end doesn’t make it all our fault.
There were plenty of regions controlled by other European imperilists previously – pondecherry by France for example. (They did their own bigger invasions in ‘indochine’ btw and we know how that ended up.) They were all creations and creatures of the shapeshifters that set up their monarchies and then as Westphalian Nation States and then Imperialist adventurers – using up each nations wealth and depopulating its regions in occupying the world. Look at what happened to such states such as Portugal and Spain
Now they all whine and whinge that the peoples of the world they invaded, enslaved and incorporated into their Empires by depriving of their ancient languages, industry , birthrights and wealth are following the Money and Wealth back to where it was taken!
From that point of view it makes it glaringly clear that the use of Opium to poison the whole of chinas productive industrious classes was a MASTERPLAN – the moguls that got rich on it such as the Sassoons as imperial agents; The Banks that became fabulously rich such JohnsonMatthey and HSBC.
Having stolen their inventions it was necessary to destroy their workforces.
Putin g and keeping down of the Chinese resistance by the COMBINED naval marine forces of the Collective West including the supposed independent and stay at home Yankee Doodle forces. Mercenaries and slave masters ALWAYS. The Founding story was created as a myth, a fairy tale, that will soon unravel and the madness that will induce is already evident in the huge dysfunctional society there. Fentanyl is the Opium of keeping these masses down and it’s the same old forces that are doing it. Just see it, M’kay?
So the dots of history through time are indelible and we can see the bigger picture by raising our eyes to see the whole wood instead of having our attention forever forced upon our own lifetime or some navel gazing cultural story telling fables.
Much of that is now in the process of retreat, the dismantling of USAID is a plan not an accident, leading that. There are equivalent institutions in all Anglo European nations – in the U.K. it was the British Council as a prime model of cultural hegemony. Many transformed via the public appetite of ‘charity’; the daytime TeeVee preying on the elderly and mentally soft pet lovers demanding just a few pounds a month to feed the black starving child or fix their fly infested eyes or dig them a well, the poor abused donkeys, the tigers and elephants that are being extinct Ed …. On and on without even thinking how they got to that state in the first place ?
The hair shirt wearing and crocodile tears are the excuse for such supranational organisations such as Oxfam, and other such sheepskin covers for the Wolves that terrorise and carry on the centuries of conquest started under the East India Companies. They ARE the new EIC’s and worse. Their cheerleaders like Bonohead and Sting and celebrities, movie stars like Jolie …
What kick started the renaissance and then the Industrial Revolution here and fed the Shapeshifters forever desire to take the Great EurAsian civilisations as they had raped the African and South America ones. Those charity bastards are imperial whores and their chief execs earn millions and their staffers are deepstate cogs.
Now that centuries long, Millenia even, rampage comes to a deadly halt in Ukraine today and various African Peoples get off their knees and start to cast off generations of mental slavery to go with physical torture and death
Within this historical process the full on Invasion of The Levant is the most important the attempted extermination of Palestinians and grabbing of the EurAsia/Africa landbridge is the prime concern of the shapeshifters and their mercenary AngloEuropean mercenaries.
Having failed to grab the Crimea crossroads- again – they dont want to loose their primary imperial conquest – AFRICA.
The biggest and richest continent ever. Robbed and enslaved for centuries. Going back to to the Original Roman Empire and its shapeshifters origins.
That is the prime concern of the Drumpff and all future presidents and western politics and wars. Ask yourself why suddenly SA is being put in the frame?
Well don’t you think it has anything to do with the lands that were grabbed by genocide, where diamonds and gold litter the surfaces and mines deliver all forms of resources?
The Land where Imperialist Musk comes from to claim to be all American!
It isn’t the supposed lowly white mischief plantation owners growing stolen tea and coffee and cash crops for export to the west, that they want to ‘protect’ ; its the DeBeers and co Shapeshifters who have never given back what they stole; even as they made a mock show of granting ‘independence’.
The hundreds of thousands of young Africans flown into the US in last couple of years from Africa and allowed to cross into US through the borders, found hotels and then being shipped out to the various parts of country are specifically chosen to generate the new mercenary armies to put their boots on the grounds to retain and expand the control of Africa. As Americans! That look just like Africans so they can’t be classed as white invaders.
You won’t find that in the media and news – just the fake outrage. It’s cross party, it’s Deepstate , it’s the shapeshifters old Kings prepping to Go Again!
They have no reverse gear – only the death of their blood soaked dynasties will ever mean the emancipation of the whole of Humanity by the decapitation of the Few.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 11 2025 10:59 utc | 197

@ Posted by: malenkov | Feb 11 2025 0:10 utc | 156
Lol yes mate – a lesson I learnt very early on – especially if it had rained – the scorpions escape from being drowned to the roads and houses – don’t ever put on shoes without judicious checking. Only wore them for the motorbike rides having seen how farang in flip flops are not at proficient as locals at not losing their toes or worse …ouch.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 11 2025 11:21 utc | 198

In response to Johan Kaspar@195,
*I give you a warm smile.* While the questions were meant to be rhetorical, a way of presenting underlying assumptions as unfinished debates, I appreciate you taking the time to answer them regardless. However, I hope you don’t mind me saying that there’s plenty of leeway for poking holes in the answers that you gave.
For example, framing innovation as an original solution to a problem isn’t so much an answer, as it instead shifts the question over to the definition of what constitutes a “problem.” Suppose that the human species as a whole had stopped innovating and remained at the level of primitive agrarian societies, would that be a problem and by what metric? A problem for whom?
How many modern so-called innovations actually solve problems, and how many create new problems that need to be solved, as per your own example? How can we know, in advance, what effect an “innovative solution” is going to have in the future? Seeing as “old and tested innovations” are in and of themselves an oxymoron, retroactive redefinition can’t be employed, meaning that to call anything an innovation by your definition, wouldn’t we need to posses precognitive perception in order to use this term?
Directed innovation is either a granular view that emphasizes the role of group and individual agency, or conversely, implies that there is some overseeing structure that guides and regulates all human endeavors. Seen on the whole of history and on a planetary scale, considering both undeserved success stories and unfortunate failures, and projecting for future developments, the parallel with random mutation is sound. In a general sense, when talking about any truly original development, whether in the context of a solution to an existing problem or not, “predictability of outcome” is, I think you would agree, not the first term that pops to mind. Innovation that arises out of long chains of iterative development, or from a fusion of culture and tradition, isn’t innovation unless it somehow breaks with those molds and pushes beyond predictable outcomes. If you want, we can try a thought experiment: sit down and make a list of the next 10 major innovative developments in human history, annotate them with dates, organizations or individuals responsible, countries of origin and the impact that they will have on human development, and then imagine having to plan around this list as if you were the head of any arbitrarily chosen state or corporation. Your confidence in your predictive ability at the result of this experiment should turn out to be roughly proportional to how directed or random innovation is.

Posted by: Skiffer | Feb 11 2025 12:06 utc | 199

Sun, your argument conflated income taxes with property and sales taxes, your argument fails to note the very different ways these work. Your argument is so broad it’s pointless. There are limits to MMT, but indeed, it’s always wise to invest wisely, and government should borrow to do so, as they can. However throwing money around blindly is silly.”
Posted by: Scottindallas | Feb 10 2025 17:14 utc | 74
No it does not Scott.
There are limits to MMT. Which the MMT economists have pointed out for nearly 40 years now. Nobody says that throwing money around is a good idea if you are dumb enough to believe the mainstream headlines and think that is what MMT is ??
In case you missed it from over a decade ago. Now make sure you read it.
https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=3921
You see the point is what they promote as fiscal constraint under their gold standard , fixed exchange rate lens isn’t that at all. It is pure fiction from a different time.
Typically, in macroeconomic policy the constraints are political and voluntarily imposed. The sophists then dress these political constraints up as financial constraints using gold standard type macroeconomic models which appear throughout the literature to avoid addressing the real issues.
China NEVER does that. They know how money works.
That if the general populace was better educated in these matters – that is, understood the actual operational capabilities of the national government compared with the political and ideological constraints they impose on the system.
Then it would be very difficult for the politicians to conflate their own ideological desires with the concept of a financial constraint. In that context, telling us that we had to have 5 or 8 per cent unemployment and rising underemployment because the they falsely claim the government cannot afford to do anything. Takes a very different slant.
However, once you can indoctrinate the population with gold standard, fixed exchange change rate ” sound money ” thinking and make them think those political and ideological constraints are real. You can get away with anything.
We would know that they could afford to fully employ the available workforce as long as their were sufficient real resources available to provide the extra food and other things the higher employment levels would invoke. This would then require a higher level of sophistication in the public debate. Are there the extra resources? How close to real capacity are we? That would then promote new research that focused on the nub of the problem rather than the array of dishonesty that parades as knowledge out there in the form of academic papers – which say the government has a financial constraint and will cause higher interest rates, higher taxes, higher inflation if it bucks against it.
Businesses would also have to justify their opposition to true full employment in more sophisticated ways because we would all know that the usual reasons they give – again relating to government budget constraints – are all deeply flawed.
The point is that the intellectual foundation of such political and ideological restraints/constraints is most often either a misunderstanding of the operations OR the restraints actually DO exist but only under different monetary regimes.
Get rid of these myths, and we can then have an honest discussion about fiscal policy. So it would be good jettison all the macroeconomic theory that construes the government budget constraint as an ex ante financial constraint instead of seeing it as what it actually is which is an ex post accounting statement, with no operational relevance.
Budget Deficits don’t matter like they did under gold standard and fixed exchange rate theory. Yet, most act like they do.
NEVER in China they understand they are completely different monetary systems. Understand the nuances of each.
Our mis-education on these matters and the dominance of the mainstream profession in the public debate allows us all to be hoodwinked and see rising yields and rising deficits as in some way substantiating the loanable funds doctrine of classical thought. All the rest of the spurious conclusions follow from these voluntary (neo-liberal) structures that the government erects to obscure there real capacity to advance public purpose.
So far from ignoring these voluntary contraints I am always pointing them out here. As many have been brainwashed by this gold , standard fixed exchange rate ” sound money” thinking.
We are the only school of thought that recognise fully what the real constraints are. Skills and real resources and the productive capacity of the economy.
Ask yourself this Scott.
With the gold standard fixed exchange rate monetary architecture embedded in the EU treaties and NATO charters how did they come up with a figure of 3% of GDP?
Why should deficits not be allowed to go above 3% of GDP and debts above 60% of GDP ?
It is a complete fiction Scott made up on the back of napkin by the French. Never takes into account what the actual real constraints are. It is ” sound money ” bullshit.
After all the deficit is just as an ex post accounting statement. That shows how much the non government sector has saved. Without context it doesn’t mean anything.
We want to get to the point of raising the debate beyond these political and ideological mythical constraints. Have a true discussion about the actual constraints. What do you want your people, skills and real resources to be used for. What are they bring used for now. Is that the best use of them. What is the best way to move them around rather than believe they can moved around like ignots of steel that causes unemployment. How do they get the skills that are needed for what you are trying to achieve and implement your manifesto.
How do you get to that debate when you have complete nutjobs who think the private sector can create jobs for all. When their existence is all about laying people off and replacing them with machines. Think they can be moved around like ignots of steel?
Rather than have these nutjobs impose their ideological and political constraints imposed on the current monetary system from a century ago. We need to replace these imaginary constraints with an inflation constraint.
Here:
https://neweconomicperspectives.org/2015/01/replacing-budget-constraint-inflation-constraint.html
If you have been daft enough to allow mainstream media to brainwash you to believe MMT is money printer goes brrrrrrrr.
Then you need to free yourself from that GROUPTHINK. Actually take the time to read their 30 years body of work. Then think for yourself and decide yourself if you agree with it or not.
Don’t allow these bastards who lie about everything make your mind up for you. Who tried to ban MMT in congress because it it is the antithesis of their imperial desires. If countries they try and own and control throw away the chains of the gold standard, fixed exchange rate ” sound money ” thinking they have been imprisoned by. Then Move to a more fully sovereign monetary architecture like they are doing with BRICS.
Scott I can talk about different taxes all day. There’s no conflating the issue. They ALL free up space in the economy as they ALL take somebody’s spending power away from them.
There are limits to taxation also
Here:
https://new-wayland.com/blog/the-limits-of-taxation/
But because of the gold standard and fixed exchange rate lens thinking we are not allowed to debate those either.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Feb 11 2025 13:01 utc | 200