WaPo Editors - Ending The War Is Worse Than Losing
The Washington Post editors have long argued for prolonging the war in Ukraine.
In November 2022, when Ukraine was in a good position to negotiate an end to the war, they argued against it:
Mr. Zelensky and his supporters in the West undoubtedly understand that peace talks might eventually be necessary, his commitment to victory notwithstanding. And yet to declare that, or even imply it, before the time is right — before Ukraine’s armed forces have exhausted every opportunity to regain occupied territory — would convey slackening commitment. And that, in turn, can only convince Mr. Putin that time is on his side and that he should prolong the fighting.
Since then Ukraine’s armed forces have exhausted every opportunity to regain occupied territory - and failed. Russia was then and is now convinced that time is on its side.
Now, finally, the editors acknowledge that their war against Russia in Ukraine is lost. But they still insist that this can not be allowed to be formalized in a ceasefire or peace treaty.
While they are stomping their feet they fail to present an alternative:
Ukraine risks losing the war. A Trump-imposed bad deal would be worse. (archived)
A settlement that dismembers Ukraine and rewards Putin will undermine U.S. credibility.
As Russia is the dominating power in the war in Ukraine there will only be one deal that can be had. It will be along the parameters the Russia's President Putin has laid out. That deal will certainly be less than optimal for the U.S. side but how would it be 'worse' for Ukraine than losing the war?
As for 'credibility':
A pullback now would convey that the United States and its allies lack staying power and that their promises come time-stamped as valid only until the next election date. How might China take such a message as its autocratic president, Xi Jinping, contemplates whether to make a military move to try to seize the self-governing democratic island of Taiwan?
The U.S. 'lack of staying power' is a feature of its democracy. It is well known that U.S. citizen's opinions about supporting a war tend to change over time. Just ask the Vietnamese or the Taliban for experience with this. No unrealistic fear mongering about China will change that fact.
It is however good to learn that the editors (finally) see the situation of Ukraine as unsustainable as it is:
Ukraine is also losing troops at a rate far beyond what it can sustain and continue fighting. The official casualty estimate of 400,000 killed or wounded is considered a vast undercount. Thousands of exhausted Ukrainian soldiers are deserting the front lines.
The editors know that it is over for Ukraine but they still reject to acknowledge the consequences. They say that a deal over Ukraine, any deal, would be bad but there is not even a hint of what an alternative might be:
Ukraine can hardly survive another year of this devastating war. But the haste to find a negotiated settlement could produce a bad one that would reward Mr. Putin for his land grab and guarantee he will launch a new attack for more territory once he has a chance to rebuild his depleted arsenal. A poor settlement would also leave Ukrainians bitter after seeing their homes, schools and factories destroyed, and friends and family members killed. Much of their anger would be directed at the Western backers who betrayed them. This is a fight America, and Ukraine, cannot lose, especially with a bad deal.
The war is lost. A hasty settlement will be bad. Russia will be embolden and the Ukrainians will be sad.
But what else is there to do? The editors don't know. They thus close with a sentence that does not even ('cannot lose') make sense.
Posted by b on January 7, 2025 at 16:38 UTC | Permalink
next page »I understand that said msm editors are lining up to volunteer their children and grandchildren for duty in the trenches.
A fine body of men/sarc
Posted by: necromancer | Jan 7 2025 16:52 utc | 1
Useful primarily for butt-wiper in case the rolls run out; the WaPo is little more than a hangout for paid Pre$$titutes echoing the Agency's line. Likely that there are one or more Agency monitors maintaining a close watch over those who provide the verbiage for that secondary buttwiper source.
If the now "Anointed" one is the least bit faithful to his rhetoric; the entire Operations element of the Agency will be shitcanned. Not that I expect such as outcome, but one can always hope even if virtually devoid of trust. There is no doubt in the minds of the aware and awakening that the Agency was the agency for the assassinations of JFK, RFK, MLK and numerous other Americans as a tool of the controlling Bank$ter elite.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 7 2025 16:56 utc | 3
what else is the wapo to do??? they can't let down their sponsors!!!
Posted by: james | Jan 7 2025 16:57 utc | 4
This is an attempt to establish the starting point for negotiations. Maybe it will even work.
Posted by: biochar | Jan 7 2025 16:58 utc | 5
they are worried about ''undermining the usa's credibility', lolol..... wakey wakey!! it is long long gone... but, not to worry... trump and bezos will restore it somehow..
Posted by: james | Jan 7 2025 16:58 utc | 6
The official casualty estimate of 400,000 killed or wounded is considered a vast undercount. Thousands of exhausted Ukrainian soldiers are deserting the front lines.
It's amazing to see this so frankly admitted. For the last almost three years Western media had announced nothing short of the imminent collapse of Russian forces and the Balkanization of the Russian Federation. Ukrainian forces were taking no casualties while the Russians were being decimated in pointless human wave assaults ("human wave assaults" are a favorite of the Western media, even when there's no evidence of them occurring). It's obvious now that this was entirely false. Ukraine will never be the same. Russia took some punches, it probably really has decimated its own population of young men, but they will recover, and Russia has an odd post-modern multi-cultural setup that enables them to readily take in immigrants, especially from Asia -- Russians by and large are not white chauvinists, unlike the Ukrainians, who have fully adopted Western race hatred.
Posted by: fnord | Jan 7 2025 17:02 utc | 7
What are the odds that NATO will stand by and watch the Russians take possession of Odessa? The UK had heavily invested in Odessa even before the start of the Ukraine war. Italian investors have also sunk lots of money into the port city.
The 101st Airborne has 4500 troops in Romania who apparently are ready to be airlifted into Odessa. France also has about 1000 rapid response troops in Romania.
The obvious point of a NATO deployment to Odessa would be to block Russian occupation by means of a "tripwire" -- a dare to attack NATO forces. I think the fools in Washington and Brussels still think they can make "Russia back down," and I would not be surprised by anything that the Biden regime will attempt prior to January 20th.
Posted by: Perimetr | Jan 7 2025 17:09 utc | 8
As for 'credibility':A pullback now would convey that the United States and its allies lack staying power and that their promises come time-stamped as valid only until the next election date. How might China take such a message as its autocratic president, Xi Jinping, contemplates whether to make a military move to try to seize the self-governing democratic island of Taiwan?
The U.S. 'lack of staying power' is a feature of its democracy. It is well known that U.S. citizen's opinions about supporting a war tend to change over time. Just ask the Vietnamese or the Taliban for experience with this. No unrealistic fear mongering about China will change that fact.
Even Homer nods, therefore "Doh!" Yes, no?
In my judgment, the editorial is not aimed at advocating for a new policy, it's explaining to Trump that American exceptionalism, peace through strength, the mightiest army in the world/world history and MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! are all goals that demand so-called credibility. How Trump does this is his problem, not their job. It does seem to me they are quite correct in seeing Trump as sharing their goal of the US being the top dog of the world. It's Trump who promises the rest of the world won't be able to take advantage of Uncle Sugardaddy any more. This is not being against empire, it's against not getting enough money for the operation! The main complaint is that an editorial board is being mean to a downtrodden son of the people?
That out of the way, it is mindboggling to say America has no staying power. ROK, anyone? The Zionist enterprise? The siege of Cuba? Hostility to the Islamic Republic of Iran, intensifying under Trump? [All are potential models for the fallout of the Ukrainian war, by the way.] The Taliban had to fight twenty years. The Vietnamese victory came after thirty years of war (and the US was a French ally during their phase of the war.) The whole point is that American foreign policy has even less to do with public opinion than domestic policy does. The American government has appalling staying power and this is a remarkable built-in feature of the American version of democracy. [My explanation is the class nature of American democracy which exists to defend capitalism/imperialism, but Deep State/PMC theorists reject such Marxist-influenced ideas.]
It is in fact the necessary continuity of American foreign policy despite mere elections that the article is invoking in the supposed nonsense about autocrat Xi. The editorialists and Trump agree that the struggle against the PRC must continue, hence they cannot show any signs of weakness to Xi. They're not worried about the PRC achieving national unity, they're worried about their commitment against China's national unity, to a genuine Chinese bourgeoisie (centered in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc., not in Beijing!) And they are reminding Trump that foreign policy is a unity, because the world is one. And Trump can't take a dive in Ukraine without jeopardizing his shared commitment to fighting the PRC.
The next step I suppose is for Trumpers to discover that Trump really is fighting for a fair shake for Americans. Perhaps America should join BRICS to ensure a multipolar world?
Posted by: steven t johnson | Jan 7 2025 17:10 utc | 9
Russia is set to demilitarise Ukraine. Which means at some point Ukraine has to surrender.
But what will be then? How to reach a stable security order in Europe?
As there needs to be negotiations, what can Russia present to the West or especially to the Donald not to lose his face and to agree to a setllement?
Odessa and acess to the Black Sea? Rebuilding Ukraine? Neutral peacekeepers from China or Africa?
If there is no agreement then we will get Cold War 2.0 which will further decline Europe and Germany, where I and my five chlidren live.
Any thoughts?
Posted by: Johann von Oberndorf | Jan 7 2025 17:13 utc | 10
I understand that said msm editors are lining up to volunteer their children and grandchildren for duty in the trenches.
Posted by: necromancer | Jan 7 2025 16:52 utc | 1
And they might do so- in Israel. It would be like a safari for such people.
Anyways, things are going VERY badly when the WaPo can't even acknowledge the worst problems: even ending the sanctions would just about implode support for the EU broadly as Europeans demand to know what their idiot leaders gained out of the idiot war. It doesn't even work as a starting point for negotiations: President Trump HATES globalists and especially the WaPo editorial board. The real MAGA and Russian positions are much closer than is being talked about.
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Jan 7 2025 17:14 utc | 11
It is well known that U.S. citizen's opinions about supporting a war tend to change over time.
-b
I posted about Americans' loyalty to fashion two and half years ago.
I came upon a fashion display window,
it contained an American nuclear family unit.It grabbed my attention - loyalty to fashion,
is what it spoke.That is how propaganda works, isn't it?
Very similar to the way fashion works...
or strike that...
not "similar" but rather exactly like it.People seek acceptance, and they do this through mimicry
and conformity which leads to Groupthink as well as to being fashionable. Beliefs, including political ones, are
like fashion, individuals adopt the group ideas and wear them like they are their own.
They signal group belonging.Again, I came upon a fashion display window.
The nuclear family, display window dummies, wore T-shirts and color coordinated
skirts or trousers (running pants in this case). Each wore, including the little girl dummy, a T-Shirt that messaged
their support for Ukraine, either "I Stand With Ukraine" or "Puck Futin". The mother dummy had a scarf in Ukrainian flag yellow and a skirt in Ukrainian flag blue.
The little girl dummy had a matching outfit less the scarf.
They were fashionable.It struck me as representative of how superficial and banal are the American people's "support for Ukraine".
Is Ukraine aware that they are "the flavor of the month"? Support for Ukraine will be discarded, changed and forgotten
by Americans like yesterday's laundry. Support is manufactured by the drumbeat of propaganda and when something
else comes along Americans will change their T-shirts and their interests.It is perfect that the dummies in the display window were headless. Perfect.
Perfect in the context of Ukraine, as Americans are fashionably supporters of Nazi head-choppers.
Yes, head-choppers.
[Head-choppping has been attested.
https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrainian-nationalist-volunteers-grows-269604]What do Americans dummies need heads for anyway? Beliefs are adopted not through the intellect, but through conformity
to the group.For added assurance the fashion display window had a large banner and in big bold letters the words "Global Relief".
Support was Global. Now that is a big and widely accepted Group for a conformist to safely belong to. The banner also
claimed that profits from the sale of the clothing would go to the Ukrainian people and not be laundered through some
offshore account in the Cayman Islands.Let us hope that American, pre-chopped, fashionably loyal supporters of Ukrainian Nazis do not discover a double meaning in the term
American nuclear family.
Posted by: librul | Jan 7 2025 17:17 utc | 12
B:
[quote]And that, in turn, can only convince Mr. Putin that time is on his side and that he should prolong the fighting.[endquote]
. . .Russia was then and is now convinced that time is on its side.
=====================
Amazing dot connecting, WaPo!
How in the world did you figure out that Putin was convinced that time was on Russia's side?
Could it possibly be because Russia stated this clearly??
Putin stated early on that the longer the war continues the worse the deal with be for Ukraine, the worse its negotiating position, the more it will have to give up in order to end the bleeding.
Too bad the WaPo and other Western elites failed to heed Putin back then and thought, idiotically---and, for the Ukrainians, tragically---that time was on THEIR side.
Posted by: Jane | Jan 7 2025 17:22 utc | 13
Dang! Cannot put an HTML tag (blockquote) adjacent to a link.
So, do over, for the link
Posted by: librul | Jan 7 2025 17:17 utc | 12
Posted by: librul | Jan 7 2025 17:23 utc | 14
Thanks for the posting b
I listened to as much as I could take of a Nima/Paul Craig Roberts podcast last night and PCR says Putin is going to surrender so maybe PCR's family is available also for active duty in Ukraine.
Ukraine is a wobbly domino in our civilization war about public/private finance.
Empire is in an existential battle for failing hegemony and the axis of resistance is pushing for empire surrender to be a financial crash, IMO.....death by thousands of cuts
Will a financial crash happen before Ukraine surrender?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 7 2025 17:25 utc | 15
Posted by: Perimetr | Jan 7 2025 17:09 utc | 8 Those investments will go up in smoke if there's fighting. Deciding such questions as war are not made by adding up investments made by firms, that's why such questions are delegated to politicians (aka statesmen...according to your whim.) For a long time there was a tradition of businessmen preferring stability to the costs and hazards of war (confused nowadays with actually being for peace, maybe even anti-imperialist.)
In my view, the generals will have something to say about what US troops have to do. The unspoken notion they are all Marxist Democrats is BS.
Not in my view, but an objective fact, is that no one has explained how lame duck Biden can order about foreign heads of state, all of whom are awaiting Trump. Not sure they even understand the objection? Foreigners do have some agency, especially in transitional periods. I suppose I should not be surprised by preemptive lying on behalf of the God Trump?
Posted by: steven t johnson | Jan 7 2025 17:27 utc | 16
It is precisely for that reason - credibility - that Russia cannot even consider US / NATO points of negotiation. US / NATO has obliterated any credibility it ever had, with the blood of genocide. See this as a example, where a known mouthpiece of the US government calls for a continuation of war even when all hope is lost, and Ukraine's population will have to endure a million and more dead for the bankers and investors.
Posted by: Áobh Ó'Sheachnasaigh | Jan 7 2025 17:29 utc | 17
Russians by and large are not white chauvinists, unlike the Ukrainians, who have fully adopted Western race hatred.
Posted by: fnord | Jan 7 2025 17:02 utc | 7
===============
Russia has already taken in a lot of Ukrainians refugees/immigrants/whatever.
As things slide downhill in European societies and economies, very likely more Europeans will take the plunge and emigrate to Russia.
Posted by: Jane | Jan 7 2025 17:30 utc | 18
Any thoughts?
Posted by: Johann von Oberndorf | Jan 7 2025 17:13 utc | 10
Mein freund, Germany's problems are going to be Germany's problems alone, until you throw off your despicable occupation government. A stable security order in Europe is quite impossible until all of the establishment incompetents and their lackeys are completely purged from positions of influence. This includes the entire EU apparatus. So you can ignore the people claiming "that foreign policy is a unity, because the world is one." Trump and Musk obviously don't believe that, which explains the extensive panic in Europe.
Thankfully, this is also a shared goal of the broader Western nationalist movement, of which MAGA is a part. Russia is no closer to taking Odessa than the moon, but that isn't going to matter. Basically any agreement that isn't overt surrender from the Americans or Putin agreeing to stand trial in The Hague is likely to be very good for Russian interests. Luckily Russian diplomats are competent, and too many people are still focused on Kellogg and Rubio (?!) to realize that President Trump is putting far more reliance on Orban.
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Jan 7 2025 17:30 utc | 19
Towards Greater America?
Looming defeat in Ukraine, regime change in Europe—whose geopolitical game plan will shape the future? America as leader of a globalized world or an autarkic American-Island prepared to stand alone?
Russia is set to demilitarise Ukraine. Which means at some point Ukraine has to surrender.
. . .
Any thoughts?
Posted by: Johann von Oberndorf | Jan 7 2025 17:13 utc | 1
========
At some point USA policymakers must "get" that demilitarizing the Ukraine is existential for Russia whereas militarizing the Ukraine is NOT existential for the USA.
Germans must also "get" that the Ukraine conflict is partly to mostly aimed at driving Europe down, especially Germany.
It would be most helpful if Germans would finally "get" this very obvious state of affairs and start to act on it.
For more details see Michael Hudson, "USA Defeats Germany for third time in a century."
https://michael-hudson.com/2022/02/america-defeats-germany-for-the-third-time-in-a-century/
I wouldn't presume to advise my fellow and sister Germans which politicians to support and which party to vote for in the upcoming election, but it must be obvious by now.
Posted by: Jane | Jan 7 2025 17:42 utc | 21
Before hypothetically ever being strategically defeated and owned by the west, Russia would form a unitary state with China. Essentially form the “indivisible union” that Churchill suggested to France in 1940 as France were falling to defeat by Hitler. Those pushing for complete “defeat” of Russia should understand that Russia will infinitely prefer to become a province of China than a plantation of the west. They should ask themselves how much they want to see the whites of millions of Chinese eyes on the border of Lithuania, Romania and Poland etc.
Not very likely - yet - but is exists as an attractor on the landscape into which the system will quickly get sucked if pushed too close.
Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Jan 7 2025 17:45 utc | 22
Putin's land grab? How about Bush's land grab in Iraq, Clinton's land grab in Yugoslavia now broken in tiny Serbia, Montenegro, Croatia, Kosovo by igniting ethnic rivalries, Obama's land grab in Libya& Syria and slaughtering over 5 million for which he collected a nobel peace prize (Didn't realise peace is synonymous to genocide), Biden and bosom buddies in UK tried the same in Ukraine ( sorry wrong number) and is now getting kicked. They didn't realize Vladmir Putin is very different from Tsar Nicholas 1.
Posted by: Srang | Jan 7 2025 17:48 utc | 23
What do you expect from Zionists who support the genocide of Palestinians?
Posted by: Alfred (Hurghada) | Jan 7 2025 17:55 utc | 24
Don’t see any U.S. Action as undermining TRUMP’s credibility. He is regarded as unpredictable, even mercurial. His base will provide him with freedom of action, even if (especially if) he breaks from the past few years.
Posted by: Lou. | Jan 7 2025 17:58 utc | 25
Not in my view, but an objective fact, is that no one has explained how lame duck Biden can order about foreign heads of state, all of whom are awaiting Trump. Not sure they even understand the objection? Foreigners do have some agency, especially in transitional periods. I suppose I should not be surprised by preemptive lying on behalf of the God Trump?
Posted by: steven t johnson | Jan 7 2025 17:27 utc | 16
As usual, the NPC left is pretty much breaking down. The establishment "leaders" of Europe have very little agency to deviate from the oligarch line, and currently they're all losing their minds about X/ Facebook beginning to disengage from EU control. Aside from the impossibility of Europe securely banning most major social media in the West (X, Telegram, Facebook, Tiktok).
But if the 101st is sent to Odessa, President Trump can remove them just as easily. If anything, dismissing generals trying to start WWIII will be much easier than Truman relieving MacArthur of command. Are the Milleys stupid enough to try? Possibly, but they're risking their lives in the most literal sense.
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Jan 7 2025 18:00 utc | 26
There is less truth in the WaPo than in BabylonBee nowadays ...
Despite all what they are saying, peace will not come from the US. The Russians can't care less about what the 'murican says as those can't be trusted for any signed paper nor pledge given. And the Russian won't stop advancing.
The Don might stop the gravy train from the US (also I have doubts about that), but it won't matter in the end as it will in fact only transfers the bills to the Eurotards. Neither the less the Russian won't stop advancing.
So, "civilian disorders" (the kind that plant bombs near TCC offices.) will rise in 404, until that day where all hell will break loose and the green goblin and his clique will flee or die trying. But the Russians will not stop advancing ...
Then , on a brighter day , the Russians will have "secured the borders" and "secured Russian population" : then they will stop ... and let what will be left of the Banderastan rot in his piss "for as long as it takes".
Posted by: Savonarole | Jan 7 2025 18:00 utc | 27
I feel for the Washington Post. There is always suicide......
Posted by: nook | Jan 7 2025 18:05 utc | 28
Towards Greater America?
Looming defeat in Ukraine, regime change in Europe—whose geopolitical game plan will shape the future? America as leader of a globalized world or an autarkic American-Island prepared to stand alone?
https://www.beyondwasteland.net/p/towards-greater-america
Posted by: KevinB | Jan 7 2025 17:33 utc | 20
Interesting, and the final part particularly interesting.
The other day someone mentioned a trump-xi-putin summit and I asked "what would they be dividing?"
"He suggests that China, Russia, and the U.S. may have reached an agreement to allow each other to take control of Taiwan, Ukraine, and Greenland, respectively."
If we extend it slightly, to china sea, some europe and any part of americas they care to command...
A lowballing would be the one mentioned, an extreme one would be close to 1984's blocks.
And it all starts with failing to break RF in ukraine.
Posted by: Newbie | Jan 7 2025 18:06 utc | 29
wapo portrays the war as "his war of territorial expansion." isn't it about time US media at least acknowledge Russia's primary reason for the war, to end nato expansion, or is that just too much for the public to consume? even if they argue against the notion, but to not even mention it?
Some transition aides have been quoted in media reports proposing a ceasefire along the existing front lines, with European troops deployed as peacekeepers to enforce an armistice and a freeze on Ukrainian NATO membership for 20 years. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Dec. 29 flatly rejected those ideas.
again, zero recognition why this proposal was rejected. because "european peacekeepers" are essentially giving the ok for the equivalence of nato troops to be placed on Russia's border, the very thing Russia is fighting the war to prevent. so why would Russia, who's winning the war, agree to a result completely contrary to their primary objective? they wouldn't.
it's frustrating, the total lack of recognition for Russia's objectives.
Posted by: annie | Jan 7 2025 18:11 utc | 30
U.S. Credibility has obviously been undermined to the fullest extent, long before the latest debacle in Ukraine.
There's no logic to be found here. Nothing about the neocons is rational. It is rationalizing.
Neocons are a subset of the realist school of international relations. Realist believe that each state tries to make itself as powerful as it realistically can. Neocons have the same basic impetus, but have removed the "realistic" constraint.
Their arguments, pr, narratives, and apologists always have logic errors and inconsistencies. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
Posted by: team10tim | Jan 7 2025 18:18 utc | 32
Karl once had a discussion -- rather he imposed his views onto someone else -- with AI about who may be joining BRICS next. It happened that AI was right by saying that Indonesia was one of them and yes indeed they have joined as full-fledge member as of late. However, Karl insisted that any new member will not be a full-fledge one but rather a participant. Where is Philly and Chen?
Posted by: mecano | Jan 7 2025 18:18 utc | 33
The war is far from lost for Ukraine.
After the 40 to 60y population has been decimated, the 25 to 40y has been decimated and the 18 to 25y will be decimated (still to come), there is still a child population that could be qualified as child soldiers, the same way as in central Africa.
Posted by: scc | Jan 7 2025 18:24 utc | 35
"He suggests that China, Russia, and the U.S. may have reached an agreement to allow each other to take control of Taiwan, Ukraine, and Greenland, respectively."If we extend it slightly, to china sea, some europe and any part of americas they care to command...
A lowballing would be the one mentioned, an extreme one would be close to 1984's blocks.
And it all starts with failing to break RF in ukraine.
Posted by: Newbie | Jan 7 2025 18:06 utc | 29
Exactly this, as per Orwell
Posted by: Drifter | Jan 7 2025 18:26 utc | 36
It's all too convenient to consider this war as a championship or some special years-long sporting event. One team wins, the other loses.
The thing formerly known as the West is re-organising, re-aligning and in the process of becoming a new entity altogether.
In this sense it is not just about America's staying power vis-a-vis the Rest of the World. It's even more about its power to keep up fake docile elites and economy to support this transition period.
Victorious Russia at the borders of Romania, Hungary and Poland, Baltic States and Finland is sure to challenge this process, while ongoing war icomes with clear benefits.
***
Arnaud Bertrand posted an interview for Le Figaro with Emmanuel Todd on his xfeed. Interestingly Todd said that the only country with real industrial capacity to wage war on Russia is Germany (!), not the United States. He said that Trumps main job is to manage the victory of Russia, but in the case the shadow elite-oligarchy is not able to stomach this, it's Germany who must stand up and carry the real burden.
Posted by: js | Jan 7 2025 18:28 utc | 37
Steven T Johnson @9. I like that, ‘foreign policy is a unity’. A nice dialectical concept. But reframing, the broader whole is the unity of foreign policy with domestic and economic policy. What is emerging there will make hegemonic foreign policy unsustainable in the foreseeable near future.
Posted by: mjh | Jan 7 2025 18:29 utc | 38
@ scc | Jan 7 2025 18:24 utc | 36
Don’t forget the women! Especially those babushkas armed with pickle jars…
Posted by: malenkov | Jan 7 2025 18:31 utc | 39
A poor settlement would also leave Ukrainians bitter after seeing their homes, schools and factories destroyed
Always the same lies, the same hypocrisy.
Posted by: Naive | Jan 7 2025 18:32 utc | 40
Perimetr@1709 Dec 7
Whatever those claiming to be the $enile One may do over the next twelve days will not engender Trump to follow suit in sending that pitifully small 4,500 paratroopers from Romania to Odessa. Should such a preliminary provocation by the current denizens of the now thoroughly "Tainted" Hou$e in the Di$trict of Corruption be ordered by the current administration; the R.U. would logically give that "tripwire" up to the 19th of the month...to get the HELL outta Dodge.
At least four of Russia's leaders and spokespersons have preemptively warned that such an incursion of alien forces into any part of the current Frankenstein Monstrosity coup d' etat state would constitute a Casus Belli on the part of such elements. Hypersonic missiles raining down on concentrations of invading forces would be the bottom line.
Odessa was founded by Kathrine the Great back in the 1700's and has ever since been an ethnic Russian majority or at least plurality city. Virtually NO Ukraine dialect MaloRussians have ever lived there. The only claim by the Kiev coup regime to Odessa is an arrangement by Lenin in 1921 to add that Oblast and neighboring ones to Ukraine SSR. That political entity no longer exists. The coup regime has no logical claim to that dominantly Russian region.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 7 2025 18:33 utc | 41
Psychohistorian@1725 Dec 7
Delving back a generation or so, Paul Craig Roberts appeared to make sense at that time. From his latest statements, it would seem that he is charging forward to the same mental state as the $enile One with twelve days to ACT as president.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 7 2025 18:39 utc | 43
When the point of the "war" for the empire managers is the jobs/$$$ associated therewith, the very worst thing one can do is end the war. So, until and unless we find a better racket (damn Taiwanese are dragging their feet somewhat about volunteering to be the next killing fields), Ukrainians need to continue to "volunteer" to die for our benefit.
Posted by: Caliman | Jan 7 2025 18:40 utc | 44
WaPo didn't get the memo? A new ghost of Kiev just dropped with a world record of shooting down 6 russian missiles with just 4 of his own and with an F-16. Someone had to pickup the slack after the pensioner who shot down russian Su-34 with a shotgun ran away to Germany with the prize money. Just give Ukraine all the F-16's and the war will turn around in Ukraine's favour.
Posted by: 5thcolumn | Jan 7 2025 18:55 utc | 45
Posted by: KevinB | Jan 7 2025 17:33 utc | 20
Interesting ideas.
I wrote a few days back here that the Three Great Powers most rational strategic course of action would just be to agree on carving up the world according to their interests. I also wrote 2 yr back in another forum that the USA would annex Canada.
What is missing in your view (assuming you are Kevin Batcho) though is the economic consumption of American assets in Western Europe (i.e. nations of the euro area) in the defense of the value of US$ relative to other currencies.
After that consumption, America may grow to annex Iceland, the UK and all of Western Europe, all becoming a large US$ area. Most elites here in Western Europe already speak English and the populace at large will have to learn English in school in countries where this is not yet reality (yes, you PIGS).
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jan 7 2025 18:58 utc | 46
"He suggests that China, Russia, and the U.S. may have reached an agreement to allow each other to take control of Taiwan, Ukraine, and Greenland, respectively."
Kinda brings the "Canada" talk into perspective as well, doesn't it?
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Jan 7 2025 19:00 utc | 47
p.s.: Could Mexico be far behind? Lots of mining & still substantial petroleum reserves that Pemex has failed to properly manage.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Jan 7 2025 19:02 utc | 48
the biggest loser here after the empire of lies is Germany, never learn the lessons from the past; does she?
Posted by: mecano | Jan 7 2025 19:05 utc | 49
the biggest loser here after the empire of lies is Germany, never learn the lessons from the past; does she?
Posted by: mecano | Jan 7 2025 19:05 utc | 50
UK's screaming "hold my beer!" on that, LOL.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Jan 7 2025 19:10 utc | 50
BTW, mecano, I pointed out on X that Germany's doing to the AfD exactly what the Nazis did to Jews... labeling them "extremists" and now confiscating their guns.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Jan 7 2025 19:13 utc | 51
Posted by: scc | Jan 7 2025 18:24 utc | 36
After the 40 to 60y population has been decimated, the 25 to 40y has been decimated ...
As important as the age composition of current ukrop troops is the economic class composition: ukrop leadership is currently consuming working class males and the next move to younger men will have to start the consumption of middle class males because mostly middle-class ukrop families had children after the Ukraines became a corrupt shithole nation under predatory Jewish oligarchs.
These are now university students and young professionals having a great time in discos in Kyev and Lvov spending dollars and euros from the Western taxpayer.
The Jewish comedian is afraid though, of this next move to consume the middle classes, as he should, the rat-faced defender of Western values.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jan 7 2025 19:13 utc | 52
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Jan 7 2025 19:13 utc | 53
what Germany needs doing and the rest of the eu is to open the lines of communication with Mr. Putin -- a true hero and man of integrity -- and throw the gringos back to their colony in the states or even Greenland for that matter.
Posted by: mecano | Jan 7 2025 19:17 utc | 53
re: aristodemos | Jan 7 2025 18:33 utc | 42
I like your thought that : Should such a preliminary provocation by the current denizens of the now thoroughly "Tainted" Hou$e in the Di$trict of Corruption be ordered by the current administration; the R.U. would logically give that "tripwire" up to the 19th of the month...to get the HELL outta Dodge."
Posted by: Perimetr | Jan 7 2025 19:21 utc | 54
Scott Ritter just said on Dialogue Works that the reason Trump's new 'Ukraine ambassador' Keith Kellogg cancelled his trip to Ukraine is that the latest Ukrainian attack in Kursk has gotten the snot kicked out of it. And not only this attack, but pretty much everywhere.
So Keith Kellogg can't go to Ukraine when Ukraine is losing.
Posted by: unimperator | Jan 7 2025 19:25 utc | 55
what Germany needs doing and the rest of the eu is to open the lines of communication with Mr. Putin
Posted by: mecano | Jan 7 2025 19:17 utc | 55
Once the US, Russia & China carve up the world among them the EU nations will have to go crawling back, hats in hand.
It's still amazing how Germany is unilaterally gutting itself. If their allies bombing of Nordstream & their hostility to Russia wasn't enough they shut down all their NPPs. Insanity. Throw in open support for Bandera Nazis and their undemocratic moves on AfD and they've completely lost it.
The only ones I've seen to do more self-harm is Israel. They've completely squandered whatever moral authority they've had by committing a genocide akin to what they themselves were subject to.
It's a mad, mad, mad world.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Jan 7 2025 19:31 utc | 56
For all those pickled drinkers that haven't heard the last call, "today's 10Y U.S. Treasury Bond auction simply confirmed just how ugly it is getting out there, when the reopening sale of $39Billion in 9-year, 10-month notes priced not just ugly but with the highest yield since August 2007!
The auction stopped at a high yield of 4.680%, up a whopping from 44.5bps from 4.2520% last month.(ZH)
Apparently the U.S. Fed dictating the lowering of Short Term interest rates down is landing on deaf ears for U.S. Government Debt Holders/Buyers. $7 Trillion to refinance and $3 Trillion new borrowings this U.S. Fiscal year.
Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we use U.S. dollars to deceive.
Posted by: kupkee | Jan 7 2025 19:33 utc | 57
re: unimperator | Jan 7 2025 19:25 utc | 57
you wrote "Keith Kellogg can't go to Ukraine when Ukraine is losing"
Looks like Kellogg won't be going to Ukraine LOL.
Posted by: Perimetr | Jan 7 2025 19:37 utc | 58
Just in case there is any question about the barbaric patriarchal bonafides of Trump there is this Reuters posting headline
Trump won't rule out military, economic action as he seeks control of Panama Canal, Greenland
LOL!
Shows us all how big your dick is Donald!
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 7 2025 19:37 utc | 59
The US will be fine regardless of how the Ukraine adventure ends. Been hearing this junk about "have to show we won't abandon allies, so we don't lose prestige" forever, in forever wars. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine. Somehow, we end up being fine and still being the biggest gorilla in the zoo...even if we don't police every spot on the globe for every iota of time. Still have a gazillion nukes and 11 aircraft carriers. (20 if you count the amphib jump jet types, also.)
Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7 2025 19:41 utc | 60
Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 7 2025 19:37 utc | 61
DT won't survive the next 4 years, like netanyahoo. Imagine a south afrikan running the USA, what a joke; a circus!
Posted by: mecano | Jan 7 2025 19:41 utc | 61
President Trump HATES globalists
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Jan 7 2025 17:14 utc | 11
What the fuck?
He serves the exact same jews. Any disagreement between the fake american parties or fake presidential candidates is over who gets to play which lucrative theater role in turn, and who gets to lord over some other stinking plot of mafia sludge. Who gets to rape more children on epstein island or milk the drug cartels and biolabs in which country.
The democrats were run into the ground in a completely controlled and coordinated manner to make you love the jews trump and elon. They'll rule for a few terms and then be replaced again by the other wing of the same mafia racket, the democrats, if there is anything at that point except a WEF one world concentration camp.
Posted by: Jack M | Jan 7 2025 19:42 utc | 62
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Jan 7 2025 18:00 utc | 26 The heads of European governments have "very little agency to deviate from the oligarch line..." somehow assumes they will magically not bite the bullet and obey Trump. This is self-contradictory. If incoherence is NPC, it's the Trumpers who are the NPCs. This also assumes that Trump and his billionaires somehow are not part of any oligarchy. As the gallows humor has it, assumes facts not in evidence. A pretended fact with much or most MoA commentariat is that the Marxist Democrat generals have defied Trump. All evidence indicates the primary form is generals patiently explaining Trump's deranged fantasies about American military power are exactly that, including how using the military for blatant political purposes is illegal and something the military is not even organized to do. (Hence personal threats against Milley, the nomination of the vicious fool Hegseth, the trial balloon of a so-called warrior council for a semi-private extralegal body to purge the generals.)
Posted by: mjh | Jan 7 2025 18:29 utc | 39 I think I see the point you are driving at. It's just that I see this as a force impelling a drive to war precisely because the imperialists are losing. But I concede I think the second most common trigger for war is the ruling class sacrificing the nation in a desperate war regardless of the odds, thinking they will not bear the true cost. I think of imperial Japan attacking the US in 1941. There is no rational policy for the owners of an irrational system, not ultimately.
Posted by: steven t johnson | Jan 7 2025 19:47 utc | 63
"Today we hear that they want to defeat us on the battlefield. What can you say - let them try." and "Everyone should know that by and large we haven't started anything yet in earnest." -VVP
The first sentence is in the process of being concluded.
The second, was given a preview with the Oreshnik demonstration.
Western leaderships are in disarray. EU is done.
Will NATO survive internally? Doubtful.
Posted by: Suresh | Jan 7 2025 19:49 utc | 64
Newspaper editors with zero qualifications opining on military and geopolitical strategy—the very idea of it! Dunning-Kruger in the extreme.
Posted by: GuardYourHumanity | Jan 7 2025 19:52 utc | 65
It is funny how people seem to take the words of Russian leadership pretty lightly.
Russia says that freezing the conflict is not an option and then blogmentators go on to discuss the likelihood of a freeze, as if Russia opinion doesnt really matter.
My impression is that a freeze would amount to a defeat for Russia and it's people would be very discouraged by that.
Perhaps that will prove to be necessary - we shall see.
But I think that only a complete defeat of Ukraine to which they submit whole-heartedly and at their own initiative (and tell the west to f'-off) will provide lasting peace. That would not have to mean that Russia conquers the whole of Ukraine.
I heard an interview by one of the old masters saying the "nobody" expected that the conflict would go on for this long. My memory (which is not what it used to be) is completely the opposite - I think that originally Russia had a plan to end it quickly, but did not work out and I think it was the US and others saying that it would last for 5 or more years (they wanted another Afghanistan for Russia).
Posted by: jared | Jan 7 2025 19:54 utc | 66
Among the many interesting remarks in the E. Todd interview was, regarding Syria, was that yes, the fall of Assad's government was a setback, but Russia had always shown a readiness to withdraw from effectively defendable positions. A tactical retreat from a secondary front.
Posted by: Paul Damascene | Jan 7 2025 20:04 utc | 67
jared@1954 Jan 7
Thoughtful observations of the Russian stance. No freeze favoring the Collective Wa$te. Thanks.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 7 2025 20:14 utc | 68
10 year at 4.68%
Kuppe posted the critical data point. De-dollarization brings Peace
Posted by: exile | Jan 7 2025 20:16 utc | 69
“How might China take such a message as its autocratic president, Xi Jinping, contemplates whether to make a military move to try to seize the self-governing democratic island of Taiwan?”
How can Americans say these things when our own government codified a One China policy, with the People's Republic of China as the legitimate government and the Republic of China not the legitimate government?
This is why we lose wars: we are hopelessly self-contradictory, and we justify wars of choice with lies (Gulf of Tonkin, Iraq WMD, etc). We FOOLSourselves that we are omnipotent, with no strategy, and get beat by dudes in sandals and AKs. We sure ain’t gonna defeat China in China’a back yard.
Posted by: Aaron | Jan 7 2025 20:17 utc | 70
"even Greenland for that matter."
Posted by: mecano | Jan 7 2025 19:17 utc | 55
Another American Absurdity. Starting a War with another NATO member? Little Demark is going to be publicly buggered by Uncle Schlomo? Denmark has always, 100% acquiesced to any "requests" from the U.S. They even allowed the U.S. Military to build a Nuclear base on the icesheets. What a disaster. Look it up.
Maybe the U.S.D.C. crew already had their secret deal to neuter Germany and France with the dead-end Uke War. Now carving up the remaining Colonial assets can begin.
And don't worry about Britain, the once-braggarts of Empire of India have now fully imported the Indian/Muslim tradition of neutering the Mandarin Class, for the hands behind the curtain.
Posted by: kupkee | Jan 7 2025 20:20 utc | 71
Ukraine is not “at risk” of losing the war. There is NO risk: thwre is a 100% chance Ukraine will lose, based on their maximal goal. The only variable is how bad will Ukraine’s losses be.
Posted by: Aaron | Jan 7 2025 20:21 utc | 72
How Bandera hated Ukrainians and destroyed them by the hundreds of thousands:
In light of the well-known events, it is necessary to turn to history again. Especially since the history of Ukrainian nationalism in general and its leader Stepan Bandera in particular played a very significant role in what is happening in Ukraine today. Let's put it this way: the transformation of Bandera into an idol and an object of veneration became one of the weighty ideological reasons for the acute crisis that has unfolded in Ukraine.
Perhaps these events could have been avoided if the Russian side had waged a more active ideological confrontation. However, alas, this is precisely where we were very weak. In fact, the people who dealt with Ukraine were unable to explain or explain anything to the Ukrainians. Moreover, the prevailing opinion was that dialogues and discussions with Ukrainian nationalists were useless and unnecessary; I have often encountered this opinion in recent years. However, if you do not talk to your opponents, even in the format of a “blind transfer,” how can you expect that your opponents’ opinion will change?
We also developed a kind of worship of Ukrainian nationalism as something terrible and threatening. On the other hand, we also tried to ridicule Bandera. Neither of these had any effect on the Ukrainian audience, of course. In the sphere of ideological struggle, it was a complete failure.
The special operation will solve many problems, but not all. People with Bandera in their heads were, are and will remain in Ukraine, and not only there. So, whatever one may say, ideological confrontation is necessary. And not only in the interests of Russia, but also in the interests of Ukraine itself and Ukrainians.
My thesis is very simple: it was Bandera in the head who became one of the most compelling reasons for what happened and is happening in Ukraine. Bandera was extolled, worshiped and imitated. It only remains to find out what exactly was imitated. And here we will find amazing discoveries.
The immediate impetus for me was a photograph in one of the books on the history of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) (an organization whose activities are banned in the Russian Federation). Several fighters were photographed somewhere in a bunker, in 1946, I think, and the author's signature on it said that, well, here they are, still in good shape, still hoping for victory...
They hope, excuse me, for what? For victory?! This is where a serious question arises about how adequately Stepan Bandera and his associates assessed their chances.
How many were there? Here the data varies greatly and fluctuates - from 10-20 thousand to 400 thousand people. However, based on a number of documents indicating the number of Banderovites killed, arrested and surrendered (the report of the NKVD of the Ukrainian SSR, Khrushchev's letter to Stalin from June 1945 and Podgorny's letter to the Central Committee of the CPSU from September 25, 1956), we can say that in 1944 there were about 150-160 thousand people in the ranks of the UPA (an organization whose activities are banned in the Russian Federation).
Since this data is important to us, we will provide it.
NKVD of the Ukrainian SSR, from February 1944 to January 1946: 103,313 killed, 15,959 arrested, about 50 thousand surrendered;
Khrushchev to Stalin, in 1944–1945, to June 1, 1945: 90,275 killed, 93,610 taken prisoner, 40,395 surrendered;
Podgorny in the Central Committee of the CPSU, in 1944–1945: 150 thousand killed, 103 thousand arrested and captured.
Some of the documents were published by the Ukrainians themselves, and they do not raise any doubts. Probably, the estimate of the UPA (an organization whose activities are banned in the Russian Federation) numbering 150 thousand people is close to the truth; in any case, it looks plausible.
As is well known, Bandera declared war on the Red Army. Indeed, in order to take power in Ukraine and proclaim it a nationalist state independent from the USSR, it was first necessary to inflict a crushing defeat on the Red Army. We cannot seriously believe that Stalin would have given Ukraine to Bandera.
In 1944, the Red Army numbered 11.2 million people. Or 75 times more than the Ukrainian nationalists. In May 1945 — 11.3 million people. Let's add to this another 60 thousand people of the NKVD troops guarding the rear. In 1948, after demobilization and reductions, the Soviet Army numbered 2.5 million people. But the UPA (an organization whose activities are banned in the Russian Federation), which received a crushing blow at the end of the war and did not recover from it, was reduced, according to various estimates, to 3,500-5,000 people. The ratio of forces was 1:500.
The Red Army had absolute qualitative superiority, possessing many thousands of artillery pieces, tanks, and aircraft. The UPA (an organization whose activities are banned in the Russian Federation) had neither artillery, nor tanks, nor, especially, aircraft.
The comparison of the forces of the UPA (an organization whose activities are banned in the Russian Federation) and the Red Army immediately gives the question of Bandera and his supporters' assessment of their chances of success a completely different color. It is absolutely obvious that the hopes for victory for the Ukrainian nationalists were absolutely divorced from reality and groundless dreams, since in reality they did not have the slightest chance of achieving it. Having 75 times fewer troops, without tanks and planes, and also practically without rear services and supplies, hoping to defeat the huge, armed to the teeth and experienced Red Army is inadequate. The Wehrmacht, which was more numerous and better armed, was unable to overthrow the Red Army, was defeated and defeated. Moreover, Bandera witnessed this defeat of the German army, and in February 1945 he fled from Berlin to Austria, and then to Bavaria, to the Americans.
If Bandera had been a leader capable of assessing the situation on its merits, he should have stopped the armed struggle in Ukraine already in the spring or summer of 1945, since it was absolutely obvious that any resistance would be crushed by the sheer superiority of forces. But he did not do this.
This leads to the conclusion that in Ukraine they made an idol and a hero of a man who either could not or did not want to assess the situation realistically, who kept his supporters captive to sweet dreams that his boys with only rifles would defeat the Red Army, multi-million strong and well-armed. It is clear why they had such a policy. If you worship and extol a clearly inadequate leader, then you yourself become inadequate.
Bandera hated and destroyed Ukrainians
Now another question: what, strictly speaking, did Stepan Bandera do for Ukraine and Ukrainians? The activity of any politician can be reduced to some main result, which characterizes his achievements. If we look at Bandera's activity as a whole, without any trifles and transient particulars, then we will come to the conclusion that Bandera achieved only one thing - he made corpses out of Ukrainians.
Usually, when they talk about Bandera and the Banderites, they mention their reprisals against the civilian population. This also happened and is also true. The Banderites exterminated more than 100 thousand people in total, a significant part of whom were Ukrainians. This does not make an impression on the Ukrainian public, especially the nationalist one, with the corresponding mood. Therefore, let's talk about more interesting things.
Bandera called himself a Ukrainian nationalist. In theory, a sincere nationalist should love his people, strive for their development and growth of their well-being. In any case, a nationalist in his activities should avoid vain sacrifices among his people.
Bandera did the opposite. He got involved in an armed struggle, in which, as we found out above, he had no chance of success. More than 100 thousand Banderites alone died in this struggle. One hundred thousand Ukrainians - young men and women. They believed Bandera, and Bandera drove them into the ground, destroyed them practically for nothing.
The dead did not build houses, did not plow the land, and did not give birth to a new generation of Ukrainians. The blame for their deaths lies entirely with Bandera, because it was his order to go and fight in an absolutely hopeless war. From this it follows incontrovertibly that Bandera hated Ukrainians, although he called himself a Ukrainian nationalist and was even the head of a nationalist organization. He hated and destroyed. What else can you call it?
There is only one question here: did Bandera think that not enough Ukrainian blood was spilled in the great and devastating war? Should more have been spilled? After the war and its enormous losses, the only line for Ukrainian nationalists should have been to preserve and restore the people. It was necessary to abandon the struggle against the Soviet power in view of the obvious impossibility of achieving success in it and to wait for better times. Living Ukrainians, even under the Soviets, should be much better for a Ukrainian nationalist than dead ones. In addition, the Soviet power did a lot for the Ukrainians: it united the lands together, liberated Western Ukrainians from cruel national oppression, developed education, supported the language and literature, developed the economy, built cities, and so on. The entire Union helped to restore the destroyed Ukraine.
So Bandera acted to the detriment of the Ukrainian people. He waged a fratricidal war, in which Ukrainians killed Ukrainians, and he also did everything he could to prevent the restoration of the post-war devastation. That is, he sought to make Ukraine poor, ruined and drenched in blood. This could only be done out of the strongest hatred for Ukrainians. It is even difficult to say who else hated Ukrainians as much and as acutely as Bandera.
Bandera would undoubtedly approve of what is happening in Ukraine now. His newest supporters have brought the situation to the point where Ukraine is being destroyed, ruined, Ukrainians are dying or turning into poor refugees. Nothing surprising, today's Banderites did everything as their idol and role model did. They also hate Ukrainians, just as Bandera hated them. And this is expressed, in particular, in how Ukrainian "nationalists" hold civilians hostage, do not allow them to leave the battlefield and even shoot at them.
History allows us to better understand today's events. On the one hand, the inevitability of the events taking place in Ukraine becomes clear. Indeed, people with Bandera in their heads could not do anything else. On the other hand, it becomes obvious that if Bandera is not pulled out of the heads of Ukrainians, then the hostility and clashes in Ukraine will not end. This is a serious question, and, in particular, a question of the future of Ukrainians.
Posted by: Faraday | Jan 7 2025 20:21 utc | 73
Ukraine is not “at risk” of losing the war. There is NO risk: thwre is a 100% chance Ukraine will lose, based on their maximal goal. The only variable is how bad will Ukraine’s losses be.
Posted by: Aaron | Jan 7 2025 20:21 utc | 74
Well stated, and here's hoping Trump can save what's left of the Ukrainian people from Z and the neocons.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Jan 7 2025 20:31 utc | 74
@Posted by: Perimetr | Jan 7 2025 17:09 utc | 8
All of 5-10,000 men? That's like pissing in the ocean vs. the scale of the Ukraine War. Russia will be happy to deliver a message to the idiots foreigners in Odessa, it has said many time that any forces in Ukraine are deemed as targets. Odessa is a Russian city, where the burning to death in the union building took place, no way that remains with the West. And that's without the need for Russia to keep control of the Black Sea and land lock Ukraine and connect with Transnistria. I don't even think that Trump is stupid enough to take that risk.
Posted by: Roger Boyd | Jan 7 2025 20:33 utc | 75
Perhaps the total failure of the mini-Kursk adventure will be the catalyst to a complete collapse of the UAF.
Russia should think offense - not just territory but grabbing Western weapons systems that may be simply abandoned as in Afghanistan. Billions of gear can be taken and repurposed to kill NATO generals.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jan 7 2025 20:39 utc | 76
I cannot get over the fact that the US lost the longest war in its history to an irregular militia of goat herding pedophiles. It's like somehow, that never happened, totally erased from mass consciousness.
Posted by: Eighthman | Jan 7 2025 20:41 utc | 77
WaPo is warning the guy who was impeached for kicking over the Ukr/Biden corruption bucket to stand firm on someone else's high principles. Fascinating.
Posted by: Happy Mule | Jan 7 2025 20:45 utc | 78
President Trump HATES globalists
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Jan 7 2025 17:14 utc | 11
What the fuck?
He serves the exact same jews. . . . .
Posted by: Jack M | Jan 7 2025 19:42 utc | 64
===================
I wonder how long it will take to determine whose reading of the entrails turns out to be closer to the onrushing or on-meandering reality.
I lived in NYC for ten years.
You have to have, or develop, a thick skin to live there, or do anything there.
Trump has a very thick skin, and it has served him very well.
This is one reason why Trump isn't bothered by doing 180s if he has to.
He doesn't give a s--- what other people think.
This has its good and bad aspects.
But IMO it makes it very difficult to predict what he will do.
His priorities might change.
Also, some analysts more knowledgeable than I have speculated that everything before the actual inauguration is Trump playacting to his various publics---kind of walking a tightrope. Including that portion of the "public" that might stop at nothing to try to sideline him---even now, at the eleventh hour.
Posted by: Jane | Jan 7 2025 20:49 utc | 79
Imagine how quick the US would have been out of any of its follies in the last 50 years if it lost 400,000 people.
The stay the course crowd have the luxury of burning up non US citizens and the gung-ho WaPo crowd sit comfortably in the airconditioned sector far from the realities of the grinder.
Posted by: Yarpos | Jan 7 2025 20:58 utc | 80
Well, they got one thing right, albeit very late. The yankees have lost credibility, just 163 years ago.
However, they back at it again: "A poor settlement would also leave Ukrainians bitter." I'm sure the piece was written by Ukrainians mothers (fathers, grandparents and siblings) who see their brothers kidnapped and sent into the meat grinder.
Posted by: Sal | Jan 7 2025 21:07 utc | 81
Is trump "giving" 3 to 6 months to wrap up ukraine?
Orthodox Christmas present?
https://tass.com/world/1896767
Trump says he wants to hold talks with Putin within six months
Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov on January 5 denied reports that Putin's meetings with Trump and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz were in the works
NEW YORK, January 7. /TASS/. US President-elect Donald Trump said he would like to hold talks with Russian leader Vladimir Putin and that could happen within six months from his return to the White House.
Asked at a news conference at his Mar-a-Lago mansion whether the talks could happen within three or six months after he takes office, Trump replied, "I hope long before six months." Ukraine would be one of the subjects for the talks, he said.
Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov on January 5 denied reports that Putin's meetings with Trump and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz were in the works.
Posted by: Newbie | Jan 7 2025 21:10 utc | 82
A senior editor at WaPo quit because Bezos would not allow the paper to endorse Kamala. His name was
Robert Kagan, husband of Victoria Nuland. They are "Straussians"..it is in their DNA to destroy Russia. Ukraine is just a station on the road to the Kremlin. Nuland is now officially with NED/Soros/WEF. She has been in Georgia lately as I'm sure you've seen. Madame Maidan. The battle will rage elsewhere with or without Ukraine.
https://www.voltairenet.org/article215855.html
(or goo "Leo Strauss")
Posted by: Cocoliso | Jan 7 2025 21:11 utc | 83
WaPo Editors - Ending The War Is Worse Than Losing
Illogical headline, right? Whoever dominates the war decides on what terms he ends it. And no one else. Not even the US East Coast media, not the German federal government and not the US government either. If Russia has the strength to carry on and wants to, then it will continue. Then the West will have to bring in its own troops to save its beloved Ukraine.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Jan 7 2025 21:18 utc | 84
@ Roger Boyd | Jan 7 2025 20:33 utc | 77
That Odessa site must be turned into a museum to warn people against being turned against their neighbors by foreign empires using influence campa. Or whichever of the many valid lessons they might wish to teach.
Posted by: I forgot | Jan 7 2025 21:26 utc | 85
That’s not the Washington Post speaking, that’s the CIA trying to salvage another doomed project. No doubt, if Trump doesn’t follow the exact DS line they’ll try to ‘get him’ again, trouble is this 2025, not 2016, and he’s 47 not 45, big difference.
Posted by: Milites | Jan 7 2025 21:27 utc | 86
If Ukraine loses the war it would be just a step.
After Ukraine, Poland would continue, then Baltic states and Finland, then Germany. People like to sacrifice their lives for US interests, they love Hollywood, they like to live in The Society of Spectacle.
Europe just loves this war.
The aim of Empire is prolonged war against Russia, a perpetual war.
Posted by: vargas | Jan 7 2025 21:28 utc | 87
Do not see Russia ending this war til all of Ukraine is under their control. Trump and his minions may want to negotiate, to which Russians may oblige, but nothing will ever come of it. Why would Russia trust the West to abide by their obligations any time in the near or distant future?
Posted by: Thurl | Jan 7 2025 21:32 utc | 88
... the US wanted to impose another Afghanistan on Russia, but I believe that Russia was prepared to avoid such a scenario and this is why they are taking a very cautious approach - have dialed-back the aggressiveness and cost (in lives and gold) to what is intended to be very sustainable level. And the realization of this is what has caused frustration and dismay in the west - adult diapers in a bunch, cole slaw not sitting well.
Posted by: jared | Jan 7 2025 21:45 utc | 89
re: Jane 21
"Germans must also "get" that the Ukraine conflict is partly to mostly aimed at driving Europe down, especially Germany.
It would be most helpful if Germans would finally "get" this very obvious state of affairs and start to act on it."
I just don't understand why the Germans put up with it. Are they scared because of all the US troops in bases there? Is that why they let the Americans destroy their economy by blowing up Nord Stream? Whole industrial plants like Volkswagen and BASF have been moved to the US as it takes advantage of the situation. Election time soon and we shall see if the two main RW and LW parties (AfD, BSW) would be able to work together on Ukraine and the US. They are the only parliamentary parties in Germany advocating international peace.
Posted by: Ray | Jan 7 2025 22:02 utc | 90
Who cares about western anxieties? They wanted it, they got it. History screamed "don't poke the bear". I don't even know why b bothers to read Wapo let alone engage with its nonsense. Only boomers still retain a lingering faith in MSM.
Of course "the real answer is a serious international peace conference where good faith can be established..." haha, good god what a joke. That's a Guardian OpED headline if ever there was. This dialectic will keep playing out, and the organized mafias of the world will make off like bandits (yes, I mean Israel). All that matters is that internal contradictions drive history. You can opportunistically manipulate aspects of them but you can't control the way they unravel. The best we minnows can do is stay the fuck out of the way.
Posted by: Patroklos | Jan 7 2025 22:08 utc | 91
WaPost doesn't want Ukraine conflict to stop because that's the Deep State's mojo for Eurasia--keep the arch of instability on fire in as many places as possible to delay Eurasian development and thus its ability to douse those fires. It's really very simple, basic even.
And I see the war to put words in my mouth to destroy my credibility has a new recruit. The names change but the lame methods remain the same.
Do not see Russia ending this war til all of Ukraine is under their control. Trump and his minions may want to negotiate, to which Russians may oblige, but nothing will ever come of it.
Posted by: Thurl | Jan 7 2025 21:32 utc | 91
_______
Well, nothing . . . except a renewed chorus of “Putin is a treasonous neocon Jew surrender coward” from the usual suspects on this site . . .
Posted by: malenkov | Jan 7 2025 22:16 utc | 93
If the politicians have all been blackmailed or bribed...and the extensive surveillance networks of the US and US dollar power obviously facilitate this, why is it a wonder the vassal states behave as vassals? The various Snowden revelations should make clear to everyone the why. The West has an enormously effective surveillance machine and a money printing machine, alongside zero respect for laws or decency or limits.
One reason the EU is so helpful for US influence is they consolidated power into an unelected commission. When power is concentrated it's easier to apply influence vs a larger number of individual leaders. Across Europe the variety and number of politicians makes it insensible to try to have hooks in all of them...but the EC helps by reducing this to a small number of executives with inordinate power.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Jan 7 2025 22:16 utc | 94
p.s.: Could Mexico be far behind? Lots of mining & still substantial petroleum reserves that Pemex has failed to properly manage.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Jan 7 2025 19:02 utc | 49
Watch out for a 180 and not a 360, as brilliant Annalena would say, it's Mexico who will claim up to the Arkansas and Dodge, as stipulated by previous treaties, even though the world knows what a treaty means for uncle Sam, Mexico is 130 million people and growing, plus many millions already in place, so careful with those appetizing dreams. Nice story that one about the efficient gringo manager.
Posted by: Paco | Jan 7 2025 22:19 utc | 96
I don't even know why b bothers to read Wapo let alone engage with its nonsense.
Posted by: Patroklos | Jan 7 2025 22:08 utc | 94
It's not that B reads it *to believe it*. He, like many many others, read certain MSM SELECTIVELY to keep touch with what the stupid reality-deniers are presenting to the masses; to see how the western narrative is gradually being crafted. His commentaries are about pointing out no clothes on the Emperor.
Posted by: Englishman in NY | Jan 7 2025 22:36 utc | 97
The US has been loosing its credibility a long time ago, Vietnam and Afghanistan, recently. The USA and the US media excel in setting on blurring the humiliating defeat of the usa while trumpetting the usa's youthfull energy in l starting a new war... That they'll lose.
The USA and Nato will recover from the Ukraine defeat more elegantly than of the Vietnam and Afghanistan debacle.. It will be an well managed and orderly defeat with several scapegoats pointed at (Biden and the democrats, the neocons, corrupted Ukraine, and Zelinski). Ukraine will not recover easily and the EU will enter into a self reflection period on their naivety and stupidity to have followed blindly the US and Nato crooked ambitions.
Posted by: Virgile | Jan 7 2025 22:47 utc | 98
Isn’t WP generally reflecting CIA ‘s views?
Sure, for them there is a tough face-keeping step to make!
But is it tougher than exit from Afghanistan, leaving there material worth tens of billion USD ?
The worst may be the relation to EU, UK remaining close for obvious reasons, and the future of Nato.
Trump may well drop Nato: at least my hope, but perhaps not a high probability.
Will EU members be in a position to finance a Nato-like posture vs Russia? Perhaps for a limited period, the time needed to realise how strategically and economically suicidal this would be.
How much time will be needed for EU to get rid of current idiotic , woke, suicidal, people-disdaining, political leadership recruited from the WEF training centre ?
Posted by: Dany | Jan 7 2025 22:52 utc | 99
Patroklos @ 94, Englishman in NY @ 100:
Newspapers like The Washington Post, The New York Times and The Guardian (and broadcasters like the BBC) are not only conduits force-feeding Western narratives to the public, they also reflect and reinforce the narratives back to those who create them.
The irony is that those who create the narratives (and who may not have believed in them originally) eventually do end up believing them through the sheer repetition. Repetition not only turns lies into "facts", it reduces the cognitive dissonance between knowing something is untrue and believing / hoping / wishing it to be true, and the stress that arises from the dissonance is assuaged.
For B and others like him (like Caitlin Johnstone, the Grayzone journalists), reading WaPo and its ilk is necessary to see how far the rabbit hole the elites in Washington, London and elsewhere keep going with their delusions ... and going.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jan 7 2025 23:01 utc | 100
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