An amazing, stunning, unanimous, from top to bottom a world.wide unison choir of a tailor-made motto in order to stupidify and zombify all of us.
And to a certain extent succeeds.
But one day everyone will get tired. And will turn, yes... costly for the empire of manipulation.

Posted by: augusto | Jan 17 2025 11:45 utc | 1

China supports Russia's Full Scale Invasion - at what cost?
,
Missed that one!

Posted by: Merkin Scot | Jan 17 2025 11:47 utc | 2

And that is just the more moderated part of their propaganda.
The more absurd lies are still excreted on a regular basis, like this one:
https://redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-blitz/

Posted by: Roland | Jan 17 2025 11:55 utc | 3

From the 3rd strait crisis in the mid 1990s china decided it wouldn’t be bullied again.

I followed their rise from a marginal military power to a world class one. Mainly in the PLAN section from 2007 onwards in a long dead blog that this article describes well

https://www.wired.com/2012/07/raymond-pritchett/

It was it’s disappearence that finally led me here as what little I could fine was getting less and less.

Btw , so many links but I think nothing on the two new 6th gen planes, will link later.

Posted by: Newbie | Jan 17 2025 12:04 utc | 4

"The Western media uniform anti-China blitz gathers steam - but at what cost?"

Reminds me of when MSM pulled the same stunt on Jeremy Corbyn, turning a lifelong anti-racist social democrat peace campaigner into an antisemitic Putin commie overnight. The useful thing is that thanks to B we can now make a definitive list of all the pipes in the Mighty Wurlitzer, from Contra-Trombone to Picolo.

Posted by: Jorge | Jan 17 2025 12:14 utc | 5

nothing on the two new 6th gen planes, will link later.

Posted by: Newbie | Jan 17 2025 12:04 utc | 4

---

Here is a link to H I Sutton being particularly shrill about China's new invasion barges.

China's Invasion Barges, Leading Indicator Of Plans For Taiwan ==> https://youtu.be/Klkpk_hO4FQ

Screee!!!

Posted by: too scents | Jan 17 2025 12:15 utc | 6

Here is a link to H I Sutton being particularly shrill about China's new invasion barges.

China's Invasion Barges, Leading Indicator Of Plans For Taiwan ==> https://youtu.be/Klkpk_hO4FQ

Screee!!!

Posted by: too scents | Jan 17 2025 12:15 utc | 6

A video? Not something I usually watch.

But is it about true military barges or the brilliant play of putting out tons of dual usage front loading ships?

That one was so nice…

Posted by: Newbie | Jan 17 2025 12:31 utc | 7

People whom not snapped out of the West's own "TRUMAN SHOW" during the "pandemic" - will never snap out of it

Posted by: Cato from Norway | Jan 17 2025 12:43 utc | 8

Good timing, this is an exceptional 30min analysis of the USA-China geo-strategic, super-imperial, hybrid great game, and stakes, pretty much covers all of super-imperialism and it's modern implementation vis-vis the hapless EU vassal states too. Most here know most of it but still offers many clarities and insights:

Hong Kong Professor exposes hidden reasons behind America's Forever War

If anyone wants a good briefing on Tik-Tok/Rednote happenings Carl Zha is the man. It's important, the unravelling of the narrative seems unstoppable, it's not your father's cold war newsprint and TV mind control anymore, in the digital era, at least for now, it's wack-a-mole for the Mighty Wurlitzer, the organ grinder went out for a piss and the monkey is hitting one discordant note after another. We have the Chinese to thank for that, 20ys ago who'd have ever imagined, certainly not the Chinese.

American TikTok Refugees Joining Chinese Social Media App REDnote

Chinese App RedNote Radicalizing American TikTok Refugees

American TikTok Refugees and Chinese compares Grocery/Medical Bills on RedNot

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 17 2025 12:45 utc | 9

Newbie @ 7

China's Invasion Barges

I read or saw somewhere that all of China's civilian car ferries, and there are hundreds if not thousands, have been designed to handle military equipment if needed. The PLA has been preparing for a struggle over Taiwan and a lot of other islands for near a century so I don't see why that wouldn't be true.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 17 2025 12:51 utc | 10

Only Words Remain.
The sticks and stones are useless

The multipolar leaders have them too along with the supposed backward shovels, washing machines, berries and nuts 🌰.

They also have … nukes, space satellites, hypersonics, 6th Gen and millions of stem geniuses inventing more and faster … much faster than the IP can be bought up and shelved by the behemoths of Global Robber Barons.

That’s why Yellen and all the other callgirls were sent to beg for a slow down - because all these payents that have been sat on at a massive expense to the environment - suddenly become worthless as they are leapfrogged by science, technology and Industry.

At very liitle marginal cost.

The only thing they can do is to pull the whole world down - the Samson option - if we let them.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 17 2025 12:57 utc | 11

Here is a great comparative analysis of the Chinese and American economics. Which is exceptionally strong? Not the US.

https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2025/01/14/the-exceptional-economy/

Posted by: Ringo | Jan 17 2025 13:01 utc | 12

I read or saw somewhere that all of China's civilian car ferries, and there are hundreds if not thousands, have been designed to handle military equipment if needed. The PLA has been preparing for a struggle over Taiwan and a lot of other islands for near a century so I don't see why that wouldn't be true.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 17 2025 12:51 utc | 10

That’s what I called front loading dual usage merchant fleet. Yes, china mandated that civilian model as a way to eliminate a critical gap on displacement capacity across the strait.

Posted by: Newbie | Jan 17 2025 13:04 utc | 13

Yes, china mandated that

Posted by: Newbie | Jan 17 2025 13:04 utc | 13

---

Mandated marginal utility, but at what cost? LOL!

Posted by: too scents | Jan 17 2025 13:10 utc | 14

Ha ha ha! Good timing, b. Tonight's abc.net.au TV News Finance/biz segment included a report that China, having resolved to restore its 2024 GDP to pre-Covid levels of circa 5%+, managed to scrape in at 5.2%.

That seemed like success to me but there was an insinuation that China.gov has concealed the unseen costs of such success.

Considering the dangerous and worsening state of Oz's economy, thanks to the feckless Reserve Bank of Oz and rampant Greedy Landlordism here, my first reaction was "Uh oh! Penis Envy, much?"

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 17 2025 13:36 utc | 15

https://redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-blitz/

Posted by: Roland | Jan 17 2025 11:55 utc | 3

Good--very long and footnoted-- piece Roland. Thank you. Exposes Churchill and then Saint George Kennan with their own words as they posture "no more mister nice guy!"

Posted by: migueljose | Jan 17 2025 13:43 utc | 16

This endless list of memes made my day - But at what cost ?

Posted by: neutrino | Jan 17 2025 13:46 utc | 17

Good post and points -B-

Like all other technology that has been implemented 20 or so years before “public” announcements or knowledge, guessing AI and other such crawlers have been writing the news “headlines” and “themes “for quite some time. King before “Alexis”…

The other frequently used theme:

China economic collapse.
Any moment now, apparently, for the last 20 years.
Just saying, not seeing any organic news feeds for quite some time.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Jan 17 2025 13:53 utc | 18

Sounds like Trump talk. Anyone of any serious intellectual earnestness dismissive this nonsense. It's why serious people can't take Trump the fluffer seriously. He's intellectually lazy and let's his thinking be clouded by his derision

Posted by: Scottindallas | Jan 17 2025 13:55 utc | 19

Trubind, there is no AI. This is a 3000 year endeavor of defining knowledge, we're no closer now. Logic only reveals tautologies, "AI" is just simple computer programming, with a double serving of hype. There's a reason an NPC is an NPC, AI sucks and is anything but intelligent

Posted by: Scottindallas | Jan 17 2025 14:05 utc | 20

There must be (1) a central place where all of these narratives are created and (2) a network for distribution to editors in LatAm, Europe, Asia, and Africa.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jan 17 2025 14:10 utc | 21

F-35, at what cost?

Posted by: Stumpy | Jan 17 2025 14:10 utc | 22

Posted by: neutrino | Jan 17 2025 13:46 utc | 17

:)

Posted by: Linda | Jan 17 2025 14:16 utc | 23

- China has a staggering debt-to-GDP ratio. (No, I am NOT a paid US troll)

Posted by: WMG | Jan 17 2025 14:16 utc | 24

- Yep, the US propaganda machine is still in full swing. But China also has a staggering Debt-to-GDP ratio (No, I am NOT a paid US troll).

Posted by: WMG | Jan 17 2025 14:19 utc | 25

Mandated marginal utility, but at what cost? LOL!

Posted by: too scents | Jan 17 2025 13:10 utc | 14

Marginal utility my a**, The PLAN had grow strongly but any T day planning lacked appropriate landing vessels.

Without shifting to different war vessels china solved the problem.

Cheaply and with other advantages for civilian usage.

Now for more "at what cost", china will beat the us on 6th gen fighters (and bombers)

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/china-may-win-race-sixth-gen-fighters

Assistant Secretary of the United States Air Force for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics Andrew Hunter has warned that China could become the first country to field sixth generation fighter aircraft, following the release of images in late December of two flying technology demonstrators from separate Chinese next generation programs. Referring to a “race” to field the next generation of airpower, Hunter warned in an interview at the Pentagon that “they could beat us to the punch.” “It’s fair to say we pay a lot of attention to what the Chinese are doing. And so, not everything that becomes public is a shock. But having said that, their pace is incredibly fast,” he elaborated. “We certainly have no time to lose,” he added, noting that bringing a fighter into operational service was something “they may well beat us on” in terms of timing. With China expected to begin fielding its first sixth generation fighters close to 2030, America’s competing Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) program has faced growing uncertainties. The possibility of the program’s termination due to its high cost was repeatedly raised in 2024. China has consistently been able to field fighter aircraft with small fractions of the development costs of their American counterparts, with the J-20 fifth generation fighter estimated to have cost less than one tenth as much as its American rival the F-35 to develop, which is likely to make its sixth generation program economically far more viable.

P.S. I know you were being ironic, but took the occasion to show china's ingenuity

Posted by: Newbie | Jan 17 2025 14:21 utc | 26

Waking up to the Big Lie

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sSkAbDbvVOY

Posted by: Surferket | Jan 17 2025 14:21 utc | 27

RE: Debt to GDP rato ?

If the debt is used to create long term productive value (High Speed Rail, Harbors, Hospitals, Clean Water, etc) then no biggie.

Posted by: exile | Jan 17 2025 14:24 utc | 28

To tell you the truth, I am sick and tired of the collective waste's smear, slander and libel campaign against the People's Republic of China. A united nation that has prospered so much in such a short time span becoming the envy of the world today. Go China, stay your course and follow your destiny.

Posted by: pepe | Jan 17 2025 14:29 utc | 29

Well... You have exposed the repugnant western presstitutes and their imperial narratives regarding China. But a what cost?

A recent variant: IMF orders for China plus the classic "China succeeds but many chinese feel it looses..."
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-economic-growth-surpasses-forecasts-022337816.html

And this is a gem published by some stable geniuses at UoT in 2013:
Chinese economy worries the West https://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/news-events/commons-magazine/chinese-economy-worries-west

"China’s weakening economy will not likely bankrupt the West. But its economic dominance is having an equally large, though less catastrophic, effect. China is expected to overtake the United States as the world’s largest economy soon. This represents a major shift in power and status, but it’s a shift that could take decades, Au says.

“China’s economy is huge, but they are still behind on other things—property rights, legal structure and social infrastructure are still mostly not up to Western standards. It will take major reform, and China is doing it slowly, which is good because it gives people time to adjust.”

Call for "reforms"... The constant from the scribes of Wall Street...

Posted by: Canadian Muslim | Jan 17 2025 14:31 utc | 30

“All such schemes are signs that The Mighty Wurlitzer is still well and alive.”
… not for folks who never read their trash, say like not reading Murdoch for half a century & not missing a thing

Posted by: sadness | Jan 17 2025 14:37 utc | 31

- China has a staggering debt-to-GDP ratio. (No, I am NOT a paid US troll)

Posted by: WMG | Jan 17 2025 14:16 utc | 24

And huge foreign reserves US$3.265 trillion and steady surplus.

What's the problem?

Who is that money owed to? Foreigners have US$ 1.68 trillion, half of foreign reserves.

What's the worst case scenario? Chinese keep the physical assets they built and still can buy mega-tons of whatever they might need.

If houses and factories and roads and railroads are, nominally worth less, doesn't change a thing.

Two big differences compared to the west. Minor debt to foreigners, limited power of billionaires (the exact mount they can have is at the pleasure of the party, and I'm talking about wealth, not power)

On this particular case I'll go full son of alabama and ask, so what? They'll still have hard currency for anything they might wish to buy from the ROW and people will have jobs, and houses, and food, and consumer products.

Posted by: Newbie | Jan 17 2025 14:42 utc | 32

Speaking of unintended consequences and (absence of) 2nd level projections.

The us's efforts to cutting off of RF's role as a major weapons provider has led to a much leaner meaner chinese weapons industry to rise, allowing even bigger production lines and diffused development costs.

A couple of days/weeks ago I mentioned china going forward with local production in algeria of some nice naval vessels, we all remember how serbia now has chinese AD, there are tons of chinese fighters being sold to dozens of countries, let's take a look at the latest.

Bangladesh Considering Procurement of Chinese JF-17 Block III Fighters: High-Low Pairing with J-10C Planned?

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/bangladesh-considering-procurement-of-chinese-jf-17-block-iii-fighters-high-low-pairing-with-j-10c-planned

Posted by: Newbie | Jan 17 2025 14:55 utc | 33

THE COST WILL BE PAID because TPTB cannot stand a successful COMMUNIST COUNTRY. The Congress won't even say China's name. No, the country is called the CHINESE COMMUNIST PARTY.

China is a country where THE GOVERNMENT RUNS THE COROPRATIONS, an arrangement TPTB cannot stand. The US government lackeys that a developed have assumed that China would be JUST LIKE THEM, and a part of the rules-based international order AND IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. So China must be beaten down NO MATTER THE COST.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 17 2025 14:56 utc | 34

I returned to Canada in 2020 having lived in China for 10 years. What struck me was the level of hatred everywhere in Canada. Covid was in full swing and the hate comments this engendered were amazing. Granny Killers was one of my favorites. A few years ago, I read about a German journalist on Paul Craig Roberts's site. Here it is: "German journalist reveals in bestseller that Western Media is paid by the CIA to print propaganda instead of the news. There is nothing new about this except the extent. Always there have been media, reporters, and columnists who published false information in order to help the CIA advance undeclared agendas. The difference is that today the CIA’s influence is pervasive. Objective reporting is a thing of the past."
I worked in 'Communications' my entire adult life but even I could not appreciate the degree of mind programming we all live under. By the way, the most effective propaganda tool is television. It's what most people watch most of the time and it changed the world. Note how we are presented with what to think, what to do, what a 'good person' believes, does, votes for, in very well-made productions with famous actors whose 'progressive views' become our role models. Even the news shows are packaged propaganda. Maybe Internet and Social Media videos will take up the slack as TV viewing fades but the propaganda will never die. Are you aware that the Department of Defence (DOD) gives final script approval to Hollywood movies? If it involves any military equipment or plot, the Pentagon has final script approval. We live in a world engulfed in propaganda. It's everywhere in everything.

Posted by: DenisSaintDenis | Jan 17 2025 14:57 utc | 35

- Yep, the US propaganda machine is still in full swing. But China also has a staggering Debt-to-GDP ratio (No, I am NOT a paid US troll).

Posted by: WMG | Jan 17 2025 14:19 utc | 25

If you are not a U.S. paid troll why are you spreading such bullshit?

Debt-to-GDP Ratio by Size
ESTIMATES FOR DEBT-TO-GDP IN PPP INT$ ADJUSTED for BASE YEAR AND INFORMAL ECONOMY

Japan 232%
USofA 115%
UK 95%
China 70%
Russia 15%

Posted by: b | Jan 17 2025 15:14 utc | 36

Posted by: Canadian Muslim | Jan 17 2025 14:31 utc | 30
“China’s economy is huge, but they are still behind on other things—property rights, legal structure and social infrastructure

Call for "reforms"... The constant from the scribes of Wall Street...
<=Thank you! Your list of deficiencies are the tools that interfere with life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. They give power to a few at the cost of the many.
Property rights account for over 90% of the asset side of the Western owned ideologically driven multinational balance sheets. Such rights are generated by rule of law.. If the law of private ownership of property were to be abolished, individual freedom would return to the world.. and multinational monopolism would disappear. I believe the multi-polar world will only happen if individual property rights are abolished, or at least limited to the capacity of the owner to use the property productively during his or her lifetime and for that ownership to disappear on the death of that owner.. I also believe no non-natural (by law created) person should ever be allowed to own property; corporate ownership of property was a characteristic of colonism and is a feature of imperialism. Hence, IMO, China has it closer to right than does the West..

Posted by: snake | Jan 17 2025 15:18 utc | 37

- China has a staggering debt-to-GDP ratio. (No, I am NOT a paid US troll)

Posted by: WMG | Jan 17 2025 14:16 utc | 24

So? How about the US GDP? Made up mostly of missiles to destroy infrastructure & lives, & chronic diseases to destroy lives the missiles missed.

Posted by: Mary | Jan 17 2025 15:18 utc | 38

Posted by: WMG | Jan 17 2025 14:19 utc | 25

(No, I am NOT a paid US troll)

If you have to say that.

Chinese government debt is 90% of GDP.

Quite high, but staggering? You must be a woman. Women tend to exaggerate.

For context,
USA government debt to GDP is 121%;
Japan: 251%;
Italy: 137%;
France: 112%;
Spain: 102%;
Germany: 63%;
Russia: 20%;
Brazil: 88%;
India: 83%;
Indonesia: 41%.
World average: >100%

China is below the world's average. So lady, relax now, you don't need to be so 'concerned'.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jan 17 2025 15:18 utc | 39

Although the US battle in the information space is directed against China and Russia, the target audiences are the naive or weak "elites" of the commercial partners of China and Russia.

The most effective antidote to propaganda is to learn foreign languages and to travel in those countries like the natives do. That's a huge investment in time of course and that is why propaganda works so well in most cases. That is the real world we live in. Ukraine is not the last war of the Empire of Lies.

Posted by: Richard L | Jan 17 2025 15:20 utc | 40

The Chinese ain't like us. . .
Confucianism
When Chinese people have become more and more greedy as a result of incredible material abundance and badly need spiritual rebalancing, Confucianism offers useful insights for “changing the situation, handling state affairs, and improving the morality of society.” In order to make the appeal to Confucianism logical, president Xi is even ready to argue that “the Chinese communists have always been faithful inheritors and upholders” of Confucian philosophy.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 17 2025 15:22 utc | 41

Ha, Brilliant b,

Excellent...!!

It always has been this way since Thatcher said this ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xvz8tg4MVpA&pp=ygUvdGhhdGNoZXIgdGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gc3VjaCB0aGluZyBhcyBwdWJsaWMgbW9uZXk%3D

The sheep drunk on kool aid, fell for it hook line and sinker.

The economics propaganda is exactly the same as the war propaganda. Most people can't see it due to the ideological bones in their body.

But there is no fooling you b. You have highlighted it beautifully.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jan 17 2025 15:34 utc | 42

Some data points quoted in a recent article at the Unz Review:

Very importantly, Chinese consumers spend far less on big ticket service items – rental (China home ownership is over 90% compared with 60% in the US), healthcare (largely free or heavily subsidized), and education (free public education all the way through university and graduate school).….

…. It’s not just Chinese consumers spend less to get same, they actually consumer quite a lot given the nominal per capita GDP is less than 20% of US:

China has the largest global retail goods sales, 20% larger than US, at dollar value without adjusting for purchasing power

China auto sales was 30 million units in 2023 compared with 15 million in the US

13 million residential units were sold in China in 2023 (after 3 years’ negative growth) compared with 4 million sold in the US

China accounts for 30% global luxury goods sales, even in economic downturn, 2X of US

China is the largest outbound tourist country with 200 million outbound trips made a year

China leads the world in sales of mobile phones, LED TV, home electronics, sporting goods and a lot of other consumer goods by a wide margin

China consumers 1/3 of electricity generated in the world, reaching 8000 terrawatt hours last year compared with 4000 terrawatt hours for the US
China has surpassed the US in per capita daily calorie and protein intake

Chinese life expectancy is 78.6 compared with 77.5 in the US, when 18% of US GDP is in the healthcare sector and 7% in China

Chinese graduates over 5 million STEM college students a year verse 800,000 in the US

Chinese total household debt is $11 trillion vs $17.8 trillion in the US

Chinese total household savings is $2 trillion vs. $911 billion in the US

According to the Federal Reserve, 40% Americans cannot cover with $400 unexpected expense. I don’t know any comparable number for the Chinese

Based on data, I think it’s safe to argue Chinese consumers don’t underspend compared with global average or even over-consumption countries like the US. They certainly have a bigger cushion in the form of savings and much less indebted.

Posted by: Exile | Jan 17 2025 15:39 utc | 43

Don Bacon | Jan 17 2025 15:22 utc | 41--

Many thanks for your comment, Don. As for the misinformation meme, 7/8s of the planet doesn't give a hoot, and would likely say: Western assistance: At what cost?

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 17 2025 15:43 utc | 44

@ karlof1 | Jan 17 2025 15:43 utc | 44

You're welcome. . .I kept notes when we last discussed Confucianism, May 21 2023.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 17 2025 15:52 utc | 45

Looks as if the mass-media of misinformation and mind control are conjointly on a course of cost-Plu$-pus.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 17 2025 15:56 utc | 46

the cost that can be priced is not the eternal way
the name that can be named is not the eternal name

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jan 17 2025 15:58 utc | 47

Eating a delicious Chinese takeaway dinner, at what cost? €8.90. Not bad for this day and age!

Posted by: Ogre | Jan 17 2025 15:59 utc | 48

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jan 17 2025 15:18 utc | 39

What is debt ?

No don't bother answering that question. As no doubt you will say it is like household or business debt. That they need to borrow Yuan as they can't issue it from thin air.

Rather than tell the truth that it is an asset the public save in. China does not borrow to issue Yuan.

Now, if your economic model you have chosen is an export your way to growth economic model. That means you sell stuff and get foreign currency. You then swap that foreign currency for a saving asset in that country.

China exports to US ---> gets $'s ----> then swaps those $'s for US treasuries.

So China holds a lot of their funds in foreign central banks. So did Russia who also export their way to growth and why their foreign currency was easily stolen. Why most exporting your way to growth countries have smaller levels of their own debt. A lot of their funds are saved abroad.

So Chinese government debt is 90% of GDP. So who holds these saving assets at the Chinese central bank ?

1. Foreign investors, including wealth managers, mutual funds, family offices and hedge funds.

2. state-owned or state-controlled financial institutions.

That's who hold Chinese government bonds.

So how did all of these people get their hands on Yuan in order to buy Chinese government bonds ?

It works like this ....

Step 1: China issues Yuan using keystrokes.

Step 2: People earn Yuan by working in both the public sector and private sector by offering goods and services to the Chinese government.

Step 3: They then swap the Yuan they have for a Chinese bond to earn more interest in their savings. Or balance risk in their savings portfolios.

That's it.

None of this causes financial stress for the Chinese government. All the Chinese government promise is to swap a reserve balance for a bond.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jan 17 2025 15:59 utc | 49

For the past 40 years, I have watched an endless, lobotomized stream of "China is failing!" articles. For.forty.years! And nothing changes (other than the particular spin-of-the-moment) AND nothing whatsoever is learned--ever. It is perhaps "The Mother of All Zombie Ideas," and stands as an icon of the stupidity, depravity, and invincible ignorance of our elites.

Posted by: Dhammaloka | Jan 17 2025 16:10 utc | 50

Posted by: Scottindallas | Jan 17 2025 14:05 utc |

Scottindallas, while I appreciate your perspective on the current state of what is termed "AI," it's important to clarify some misconceptions about its capabilities and its evolution over recent years.

First, the notion that AI is merely "simple computer programming" overlooks the complexity and sophistication of contemporary machine learning and neural networks. Today's AI systems, particularly those utilizing deep learning architectures, are capable of processing vast amounts of data, recognizing complex patterns, and making predictions that extend far beyond static programming paradigms. The difference between traditional programming and AI lies in the latter's ability to learn from experience and improve performance over time—an aspect that is fundamentally connected to its capacity for understanding nuances in data.

Furthermore, it's crucial to differentiate between narrow AI (the type we predominantly interact with today) and the more aspirational concept of general AI. Narrow AI systems, like language models and image recognition tools, have shown remarkable competency in specialized tasks—such as language translation, medical diagnosis, and autonomous driving—driven by extensive datasets and advanced algorithms.

Your assertion that "logic only reveals tautologies" does not fully encompass the advancements in AI. For instance, deep learning algorithms leverage complex mathematical frameworks that allow them to extract meaningful insights from seemingly chaotic datasets, thereby enabling breakthroughs in fields such as natural language processing, where AI models can engage in meaningful dialogue and even generate human-like text.

As for the idea that "AI sucks," it’s critical to recognize the vast array of applications where AI has demonstrably enhanced efficiency, accuracy, and even creativity across diverse industries, such as healthcare, finance, and entertainment. AI does not claim to replicate human intelligence in an anthropomorphic sense; rather, it enables machines to perform specific tasks at or above human-level proficiency, which indeed showcases a form of practical intelligence that is far from "simple."

Lastly, it's worth noting that the field of AI continues to grow, with ongoing research aimed at overcoming the limitations of current models and pursuing the elusive goal of general intelligence. While we may not have reached this pinnacle yet, the trajectory of progress in AI research over the past decade underscores a dynamic and rapidly evolving landscape.

To further hammer home the points, I'll add a bit more context to highlight the significant advancements in AI:

The introduction of deep learning techniques, such as convolutional neural networks (CNNs) and recurrent neural networks (RNNs), has enabled the development of robust AI models capable of processing complex data and achieving state-of-the-art performance in various tasks.
- **Rise of Natural Language Processing (NLP)**: Modern NLP capabilities, such as language translation, sentiment analysis, and text generation, have improved dramatically, allowing AI models to interact with humans in more natural and intuitive ways.
- **Autonomous Systems**: The development of autonomous vehicles, drones, and other systems has pushed the boundaries of AI capabilities in real-world scenarios, demonstrating its practical applications and potential for widespread use.
- **Advancements in Reinforcement Learning**: Reinforcement learning techniques have enabled AI systems to learn from their environment and adapt to new situations, paving the way for more dynamic and self-aware AI models.

It's essential to remember that AI is a rapidly evolving field, with new breakthroughs and innovations emerging regularly. As such, dismissing its capabilities or labeling it as "simple" or "hyped" does a disservice to the dedicated researchers, developers, and engineers working tirelessly to advance the field.

Let's continue the discussion and share our knowledge to help shape a more accurate understanding of AI's potential and limitations.

Posted by: Assistants | Jan 17 2025 16:12 utc | 51

Having worked in manufacturing all of my adult life, I have seen the US send all of their manufacturing first to Mexico and then to China. Being a typical indoctrinated American, when China started manufacturing and a lot of our customers followed that manufacturing to China, I gave it 5 years to where China would all of a sudden nationalize the factories and facilities that America built and ran over there. This was in the late 90s early 2000's. Over time, I have noticed that China has brought a large percentage of their people out of what we would call poverty. They also invest in the education of their people. Wasn't it just 10 years ago where teachers were made to one of the proverbial boogeymen in the US? Along with that, wherever China builds or invests, it appears to me that the way they do this building and investing raises that countries people up. This creates better markets for China to sell their goods in. They also do not seem to use the cutthroat debt mechanisms the west uses.
My country cannot seem to figure this out the old cliche of "rising tides raise all boats". They invest in people where we in the west invest in debt impoverishment. I hope I live long enough to see the west realize it's mistakes and help all rise. I do not see anyone with any power in the US that sees this.

Posted by: Groovinpict | Jan 17 2025 16:17 utc | 52

Japan: debt to GDP ratio of 251%

Completely destroys all of the ideological fairy tales told about government debt. What is promised by the ideological lunatics who are using gold standard, fixed exchange rate models. NEVER transpires into reality because they are juggling fruit and comparing Apple's and oranges and producing a banana.

Gold standard, fixed exchange rate analysis no longer applies. They don't understand modern money. So their fairy tales NEVER happen.

Bank of Japan research refutes the main predictions made by economists about the impacts of large bond-buying programs

Here:

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=62277

Bank of Japan is making losses on its balance sheet – so what?

Here:

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=61841

The parallel universe in Japan continues and is delivering superior outcomes, while the rest look on clueless

Here:

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=61468

Bank of Japan continues to show who has the power

Here:

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=51194

Even after the infamous Japanese bond widow maker trade as they bet on Japan going bankrupt because of the size of their debt.

They NEVER learn. The economics propaganda of the gold standard, fixed exchange rate models they use must continue. The framing and narratives must NOT change. It is how they trap and control other countries. It is colonial imperialism 101. The economic blueprint the war mongering eastwards use.

Only ideologues fall for it.

Canuck will be along shortly saying I don't know how central banks work. He is a buffoon and as always juggles fruit and instead of challenging what I am saying. He Is stupid enough to prove my point for me.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jan 17 2025 16:17 utc | 53

Newbie@1421 Jan 17

Here comes that dreaded word "socialism"...anyone who does a bit of research in military acquisition/development matters is full well aware that in comparison with the cost-PLU$+++ system in the U$$A; both Russia and China have very effectually nationalized their military production industries.

Lockheed-Martin, producer of the F-35 "flying turkey/ hangar-queen" is a case in point. Not only was that questionable aircraft granted by means of sleazy kickbacks to various "representatives" of We the People as a NO BID deal is done contract. They also profited massively from cost-over-run stipulations in said contracts.

The entire WAR-DEFENSE industry is the #1 source of political and economic corruption in the U$$A. No competition in that nefarious system. By contrast to the actuality of dollars on the penny system here in the ruptured republic; Russia gets their highly advanced military production achieved by Kopeks on the Ruble. China ditto. No fooling around and squeezing the taxpayer in those countries.

While military production in the U$$A is best described as the biggest RACKET running; the "enemies" of this corruptive system are producing lean, mean fighting machines, often at a fraction of the cost for very roughly similar production here in the Untied $tates.

Let's retroproject to the Vietnam War. Likely that the assassination of JFK had much to do with the looming profiteering by the WarDefense industry shareholders...as they made mega-billions in blood money on that ongoing tragedy. Who else made out like successful bandits? BIG OIL, headed by the nefarious Rottenfeller Crime Clan. More mega-billions for the only AMERICAN shareholder family owning the so-called "Federal" Reserve Bank.

It's all really quite simple if one does the research. Get it?

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 17 2025 16:21 utc | 54

good work b!! but at what cost to your sanity?? lol... thanks for your work and astute observations..

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2025 16:29 utc | 55

@ DenisSaintDenis | Jan 17 2025 14:57 utc | 35

it's bad in canada with regard to china bashing.. that is my observation too..

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2025 16:32 utc | 56

It's all really quite simple if one does the research. Get it?

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 17 2025 16:21 utc | 54

So are the operations of central banks. It is not rocket science but the sheep would rather believe the propaganda because it massages their confirmation biases and tickles the ideological bones in their bodies. That is that government, the currency issuer is just like a household or business. The sheep are extremely stupid. Most of us at the bar know that already.

This 4 part series is excellent aristodemos

Here'

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=43607

Explains why Japan makes a complete mockery of the mainstream economics profession.

EXACTLY as b shows beautifully above regarding China. All the same language, narratives and framing are used.

The ideologues do exactly the same with Japan for decades as they are now doing with China.

Here:

Japan – another week of humiliation for mainstream macroeconomics

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=33094

They NEVER learn they are incapable of learning.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jan 17 2025 16:39 utc | 57

too scents@1215 Jan 17

How many posters have actually contemplated the possibility that the Chinese...on both sides of the straits of Taiwan..happen to be long-range thinkers and possibilists. Ultimately, Taiwan will segue into direct absorption by the mother country. This process can be considered as inevitable.

So here's where Chinese psychology vastly differs from that of the West. Chinese leaderships, whether on the mainland or on the major island; are quite well schooled in the TAO...the primary philosophy of East Asia. Even South Korea emblems the "Yin-Yang" symbol on their national flag. The process is all about balance and accommodation. When castings of the yarrow stalks uniformly arrive at similar conclusions...the deal will be done.

For roughly half of the Taiwanese population, the aim is likely to be a deal somewhat more generous to themselves than by the one achieved when in 1997, Hong-Kong was returned to China by the colonialist-imperialist Perfidious Albion. My take is that a considerable level of local governance in all but primary macro-economic and foreign policy issues; will be retained by the island folk.

Under such a scenario everybody wins...with the exceptions of the hegemonist powers.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 17 2025 16:40 utc | 58

Writing in the Press these days must feel like adding a different topping on a basic industrial frozen pizza and calling that "Grande cuisine". There is no mysteries on why nobody trust them. Even McDonald has seasonal and regional flavors ...

Posted by: Savonarole | Jan 17 2025 16:44 utc | 59

The ability of Western war planners to create themes, spread them through mass media, and how quickly they are adopted by just about everyone is astonishing, especially since the naked ambition of Western power elites to dominate the globe is so evident by their war making. Liberals in America are as susceptible to subjectivity as conservatives, all of whom believe China is a threat American supremacy, which they believe is necessary for democracy and liberty. A democracy with the liberty to wage war for the rich.

Posted by: Keme | Jan 17 2025 16:48 utc | 60

Good timing, this is an exceptional 30min analysis of the USA-China geo-strategic, super-imperial, hybrid great game, and stakes, pretty much covers all of super-imperialism and it's modern implementation vis-vis the hapless EU vassal states too. Most here know most of it but still offers many clarities and insights:

Hong Kong Professor exposes hidden reasons behind America's Forever War

If anyone wants a good briefing on Tik-Tok/Rednote happenings Carl Zha is the man. It's important, the unravelling of the narrative seems unstoppable, it's not your father's cold war newsprint and TV mind control anymore, in the digital era, at least for now, it's wack-a-mole for the Mighty Wurlitzer, the organ grinder went out for a piss and the monkey is hitting one discordant note after another. We have the Chinese to thank for that, 20ys ago who'd have ever imagined, certainly not the Chinese.

American TikTok Refugees Joining Chinese Social Media App REDnote

Chinese App RedNote Radicalizing American TikTok Refugees

American TikTok Refugees and Chinese compares Grocery/Medical Bills on RedNot

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 17 2025 12:45 utc | 9

It's kind of shocking looking at those Rednote videos. Those CIA propaganda writers in the US must be thinking of getting it banned too right? Else their whole narrative will come crumbling down.

Thanks for the links, I'll add those content creators to my bookmarks and watch more of their videos later.

Posted by: Autumn | Jan 17 2025 16:49 utc | 61

The EU nearly weans itself from Russian energy supplies and Chinese imports - But at what cost

Canada's open hostility towards Russia, China, India, Iran and Venezuela bears fruit - But at what cost

The EU, NATO, Canada, Britain, Philippines, Japan, S. Korea, Australia and Argentina bend the knee for U.S. interests - But at what cost.

The west goes woke - but at what cost

The cost is easy math - 37.5 trillion Brazilians

Posted by: Angelo | Jan 17 2025 16:50 utc | 62

Maybe I missed it or was too ignorant. I seem not seeing people in the west asked "What is WRONG with COMMUNIST if its ideal is to bring better lives to people and societies without preying on others???" Of course, it is wrong in the rentier capitalist society that came from piracy, preying, and colonization. IMHO, the west should not be considered as civilization in any humane sense but simply different forms of barbaric societies masked by material advances.

For Chinese, its ideal is always to bring peace and prosper to its people regardless who is in power since 2000+ years ago back to at least Zhou Dynasty. If the one in power can't deliver, it becomes legit for people to seek "changes" since the one in power would lose the Heaven's Mandate. Also, China always emphasizes that it is Chinese-characteristic socialism for China. China does not see China's implementation is one-size for all. If others in the world would like to try and learn from Chinese experience, they are welcome to do so on a mutual-respect basis and develop their own characteristic socialism that fits their culture and people's need. It is a complete opposite of amerikkka's so-called "democracy".

amerikkka thinks China would be its mirror image to impose its imperial greed to others. However, that is not in traditional Chinese mind. China is so proud of itself. It will not go outward unless getting pissed. Instead, it does not mind others to come and learn. An example is Japan during Tang Dynasty. Korea, to a good extent, is also heavily influenced by China though they are not willing to admit it since it consider itself as the first and greatest country in the universe.

On 2021-03-26, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said,

The goal of China has never been to surpass the United States, but to constantly surpass and become a better version of ourselves.

amerikkka can say or do whatever it wants. The fact is it can't stop Chinese rejuvenation, which is a non-stoppable trend. The Iron Curtain II is rising by amerikkka to circle itself and its European vassals. Without the west, the rest of the world actually can live quite well. If the west can't live fairly and nicely with others, the west better get ready for its Dark Age II too.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Jan 17 2025 16:55 utc | 63

Here comes that dreaded word "socialism"...anyone who does a bit of research in military acquisition/development matters is full well aware that in comparison with the cost-PLU$+++ system in the U$$A; both Russia and China have very effectually nationalized their military production industries.

It's all really quite simple if one does the research. Get it?

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 17 2025 16:21 utc | 54

I did my research, RF style is "give me a low price and then work to make it work" and only after real inflation puts the company in a "we really really need some more money, we've spared as much as we could" then the kremlin throws a bone, a billion (rubles, not usd) adjustment here, some mlllions there. But always keeping them starved (sometimes even too much as they decline to receive all that was contracted)

DO a good job and you'll get exports at (almost) crazy western prices

the russian MIC is a starved wolf and it shows (for good and for bad)

And as I mentioned above, china has profited by the western focus on RF, and they're even cheaper and more up-scaled and streamlined, wrong play by the us IMHO.

Posted by: Newbie | Jan 17 2025 16:57 utc | 64

One sentence you will NEVER EVER hear in the Chinese government.

" How are we going to pay for it ? "

They are not stupid enough to fall for this type of neolib and neocon propaganda. They know fine well they can create the Yuan at will and never run out of Yuan.

They fully understand it is always about skills and real resources that you have and what you want to do with them. To increase your productive capacity.

NEVER about finding the money. Which is the easiest part of all when you create the damn thing from thin air.

Posted by: Sun Of Alabama | Jan 17 2025 17:01 utc | 65

@ LightYearsFromHome | Jan 17 2025 12:45 utc | 9

yeah.. tiktok.... that is more of what this is about.. control by the intel agencies because the usa is a police state... china might be too, but the usa doesn't want to be left behind... it seems more and more blatant how the usa, canada and the 5 or 6 eyes are responding to the threat they don't have access to information, unimpeded by a foreign company.. they have to spy on everyone.... none of the usa admin goons have the balls to speak directly to any of this...

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2025 17:04 utc | 66

For Chinese, its ideal is always to bring peace and prosper to its people regardless who is in power since 2000+ years ago back to at least Zhou Dynasty. If the one in power can't deliver, it becomes legit for people to seek "changes" since the one in power would lose the Heaven's Mandate. Also, China always emphasizes that it is Chinese-characteristic socialism for China. China does not see China's implementation is one-size for all. If others in the world would like to try and learn from Chinese experience, they are welcome to do so on a mutual-respect basis and develop their own characteristic socialism that fits their culture and people's need. It is a complete opposite of amerikkka's so-called "democracy".

amerikkka can say or do whatever it wants. The fact is it can't stop Chinese rejuvenation, which is a non-stoppable trend. The Iron Curtain II is rising by amerikkka to circle itself and its European vassals. Without the west, the rest of the world actually can live quite well. If the west can't live fairly and nicely with others, the west better get ready for its Dark Age II too.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Jan 17 2025 16:55 utc | 63

Mandate of heaven + don't seek hegemony

on the final paragraph it's at least Dark Age III on historical records (you forgot the bronze age collapse)

Bronze age collapse 1180 BC
West roman empire collapse 476 AD
New western europe collapse 2132 AD

But forget about the (though losing and recovering a lot of stuff in the meanwhile)s, unless they get tangled in the mess they should constantinople the whole thing and first razed in the 2850's, (though losing and recovering a lot of stuff in the meanwhile).

Posted by: Newbie | Jan 17 2025 17:04 utc | 67

The biggest problem for the Western elites is that they have been taken in by their own propaganda and therefore constantly wrong-footed as they find that the West is weaker than they assumed and the Rest is stronger. They have been making this mistake in Ukraine now for 3 years and still have not learnt. Trump still thinks that he can "force Russia to the negotiating table", utter delusion.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Jan 17 2025 17:14 utc | 68

“Dual-use” can be used to describe almost anything. The U.S. highway system, for example, was built with dual-use purpose to facilitate rapid deployments of weapon systems. The railway system was integrated with the MX missile program in the 1980s. The accusations of a surveillance element built into TikTok simply mirror longstanding regulations across western world with communications technologies. What sinister advantage could China’s government actually realize from U.S. teenagers’ dance videos? The lawmakers cannot answer that, but proceed regardless. (Second-thoughts have begun to abound as it is realized the young demographic see the ban as ridiculous overkill sponsored by idiots).

Posted by: jayc | Jan 17 2025 17:14 utc | 69

The scary part is that a large part of the electorate seem to actually give a shit about those stories. Who cares about the cost of chinese prosperity? About how many soldiers Russia may or may not loose conquering yet another city in Ukraine? How Putin or Xi Jinping may or may not treat their citizens?

The only thing that should matter to the voters in the west is how much the wars our esteemed leaders wage on the other side of the globe, how much their decisions cost US, and how they treat US. What do I care if ordinary Russians can read moon of Alabama or not, whether they have access to CNN, BBC and Facebook? What I care about is whether I can read TASS, Russsia Today South China Morning Post and Tehran Times should I desire to, and whether I need to worry about loosing my job, or having the police raid my home for posting this comment. That is all that matters.

Posted by: Marvin | Jan 17 2025 17:24 utc | 70

Excellent post, b; thank you!

Posted by: canuck | Jan 17 2025 17:57 utc | 71

Of course, as all of us who come here know no "official media" story in the West (the Empire) can be trusted in ANY story on China, Russia, Iran, or any other country the Imperial capitol believes is on their sh*t list. Those outlets linked to the Empire are more sophisticated version of the official Soviet press back in the day. The fault is both with the expansion of Project Mockingbird and, worse, with the almost utter corruption of the US intelligentsia (and even scientific establishment) to intellectual perversions within the university system (of all kinds) that signals, unless the internet can continue to evolve a new system of discourse, the end of the Western humanist intellectual project. Few people in the university are now trained to be able to maintain an intellectual discourse that has any value. Showing sympathy for alternate viewpoints is career suicide in any field right now which explains a lot of bizarre behavior one sees``. Everyone knows that so the repression has worked perfectly.

Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Jan 17 2025 17:59 utc | 72

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2025 17:04 utc | 66

You're right james, it's 5 or 6, I normally refer to them as 5+1 where 1 are the Zionists. The master race.

Posted by: pepe | Jan 17 2025 18:01 utc | 73

"The biggest problem for the Western elites is that they have been taken in by their own propaganda..."

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Jan 17 2025 17:14 utc | 68

You are describing yourself; textbook case of the ego defense mechanism Freud called, 'projection".

You have swallowed whole both Marxism and a belief in Anthropomorphic Climate Change.

Posted by: canuck | Jan 17 2025 18:01 utc | 74

While I admit that it's a bit early for predictions, the TikTok ban may well turn out to be the greatest Streisand Moment / Own Goal in American history.

I haven't created a RedNote account, but I did download the app, and it's true: hundreds of thousands of young Americans (and those numbers are increasing by the minute) are finding out that Chinese aren't mindless automata in a repressive backward society. Even worse, they're finding out that lots of Chinese speak awfully good English, which facilitates -- perish the thought! -- actual communication.

This could be bigger than what Anime has done for Japan, or K-Pop for (South) Korea. In these cases, young Americans became consumers of a foreign entertainment product. In the case of RedNote, they're actually engaging in cross-cultural understanding, which the American PTB will no doubt find deeply threatening.

Long live RedNote -- and long live the TikTok ban? . . .

Posted by: malenkov | Jan 17 2025 18:07 utc | 75

Three days before inauguration ceremony in the Wretched City we are met with a remarkable spike in negative media presentations about China. As a cynic I expect a second wave featuring Iran.

Posted by: chunga | Jan 17 2025 18:13 utc | 76

For the Anglo American Empire, slandering a competitor is par for the course. In this age of Social Media, it takes 30 minutes to watch live videos to debunk most propaganda and fake news. As we should be aware, predicting China's economic doom is a cottage industry.
The predictions have proven 100% wrong since 1949. Some examples:

1990. China's economy has come to a halt. The Economist
1996. China's economy will face a hard landing. The Economist
1998. China's economy’s dangerous period of sluggish growth. The Economist
1999. Likelihood of a hard landing for the Chinese economy. Bank of Canada
2000. China currency move nails hard landing risk coffin. Chicago Tribune
2001. A hard landing in China. Wilbanks, Smith & Thomas
2002. China Seeks a Soft Economic Landing. Westchester University
2003. Banking crisis imperils China. New York Times
2004. The great fall of China? The Economist
2005. The Risk of a Hard Landing in China. Nouriel Roubini
2006. Can China Achieve a Soft Landing? International Economy
2007. Can China avoid a hard landing? TIME
2008. Hard Landing In China? Forbes
2009. China's hard landing. China must find a way to recover. Fortune
2010: Hard landing coming in China. Nouriel Roubini
2011: Chinese Hard Landing Closer Than You Think. Business Insider
2012: Economic News from China: Hard Landing. American Interest
2013: A Hard Landing In China. Zero Hedge
2014. A hard landing in China. CNBC
2015. Congratulations, You Got Yourself A Chinese Hard Landing. Forbes
2016. Hard landing looms for China. The Economist
2017. Is China's Economy Going To Crash? National Interest
2018. China's Coming Financial Meltdown. The Daily Reckoning.
2019 China's Economic Slowdown: How worried should we be? BBC2020. Coronavirus Could End China's Decades-Long Economic Growth Streak. NY Times
2021 Chinese economy risks deeper slowdown than markets realize. Bloomberg
2022. China Surprise Data Could Spell R-e-c-e-s-s-i-o-n. Bloomberg.
2023. No word should be off-limits to describe China's faltering economy. Bloomberg

Posted by: Ron | Jan 17 2025 18:24 utc | 77

It's essential to remember that AI is a rapidly evolving field, with new breakthroughs and innovations emerging regularly.
Posted by: Assistants | Jan 17 2025 16:12 utc | 51

Yes, but at what cost?

Assistants posts read as if they are AI generated.

Posted by: jopalolive | Jan 17 2025 18:28 utc | 78

They invest in people where we in the west invest in debt impoverishment. I hope I live long enough to see the west realize it's mistakes and help all rise. I do not see anyone with any power in the US that sees this.
Posted by: Groovinpict | Jan 17 2025 16:17 utc | 52

Agreed. The possibility of collapse will imo soon change the calculus back to where the US supports Europe, in this version of Cold War II to help counter the Russian (post Soviet) bloc. A stronger US control of Europe will (unfortunately for the Eu people) precede this turn in policy.

At this time the US is banking on winning.

Posted by: jopalolive | Jan 17 2025 18:37 utc | 79

@Newbie with his recounting of the Information Dissemination blog ... interesting, my story is somewhat similar. There was also a german-language blog called Augen Geradeaus! which I read, probably around 2006. b commented there sometimes, which is how I found the MoA. I was still a student at the time, and also visited the Hamburger Institut für Sozialforschung for presentations by OSCE people on press freedom in eastern Europe.

I have a personal email from Raymond Pritchett that I'll remember forever. I forgot how it came about, but he informed me that he is "an american patriot" and went on to report on his daughters' football club fan affiliations, like "but she is also a fan of Hotspurs". WTF I thought, and never replied.

That said, I didn't find the specific discussion on this forum you were hinting me towards a fortnight ago. It only said "in the current thread" but that wasn't enough, as it was also becoming late.

And one more thing: You have a habit of quoting full comments before replying yourself to them, which I have identified as the single most difficult for me handle style in all of comment formatting, so, may I kindly suggest using blockquote when it's more than a line or two of repetition?

Posted by: persiflo | Jan 17 2025 18:41 utc | 80

When I was a boy in the 50s-60s, our leaders in DC taught us to be afraid of Communism, mostly the Soviet Union. When the Soviet Union disappeared and PR China abandoned Communism, our leaders in DC told us to be afraid of Muslims, especially in Iraq. Then when we conquered Iraq and it didn't make up happy, our leaders in DC have started telling us to be afraid of 1) Russia (almost Soviet, DC says) and China (still has a political machine which used to be Communist but now is a businessmen's club). Hmmmm.... Why?

I suspect it allows our half-wit leaders to make big bucks off military gadgets. If also allows the sadists and sociopaths among them to enjoy killing people.(Mostly brown people but the recent anti-russia proxy war kills lots of whites, so they feel un-racist.) Finally, a lot of them get to enjoy cheap prostitutes. Sex tourism in Thailand and Philippines is a by-product of our anti-commumist war in Vietnam.

So now, war or struggle with Post-Communist China. Why? I suspect our leaders in DC want China's leaders to be as submissive as Japan's or Britain's. They are upset that ordinary Chinese people are prospering, while ordinary Americans are getting poorer and more often homeless.

Posted by: lester | Jan 17 2025 18:43 utc | 81

Extreme Projection politics don't fool anyone --

1) China can afford every one of the referenced cost examples
2) US deficit is $36.3 trillion this morning.

Posted by: elmagnostic | Jan 17 2025 18:46 utc | 82

The real risk of collapse is within the US, and the EU, but probably put off for a little while by the mass oligarchic celebration of a Trump presidency (great for profits as regulations get slashed etc.), and the fiscal tail winds caused by his tax cuts (also great for profits). Then, perhaps at the end of this year we get the final denouement. It may be a blow off top for the ages!

All the while China will keep building better infrastructure, managing property prices down to better income/price ratios, and gaining the lead in yet more areas of technology. The more it is forced to disconnect from the West the better as that disconnection will help protect it from a Western implosion. It will need to keep some powder dry though to help offset that implosion.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Jan 17 2025 18:48 utc | 83

Posted by: persiflo | Jan 17 2025 18:41 utc | 80

#########

My friend, when someone doesn't try to communicate well, that's a sign that they can be ignored.

It makes it much more efficient to peruse MoA when 50% of the commenters can be skipped and nothing of value is lost.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jan 17 2025 18:49 utc | 84

I read or saw somewhere that all of China's civilian car ferries, and there are hundreds if not thousands, have been designed to handle military equipment if needed. The PLA has been preparing for a struggle over Taiwan and a lot of other islands for near a century so I don't see why that wouldn't be true.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 17 2025 12:51 utc | 10

Taiwan's largest trading partner by far is mainland China with the USA coming in second. China does twice the trade volume with Taiwan as compared to the USA however that doesn't tell the true story because China supplies Taiwan with raw materials and food whereas the USA buys finished goods made from these Chinese imports so Taiwan is far more dependent on China than the USA.

They could find other markets for their products if the USA stopped buying however there is no taiwanese chip manufacturing without refined silica from China.

What they don't tell you on CNN or Fox news but is common knowledge in the rest of the world is that Taiwan plans to reunite with China and the majority accepts this. It just makes sense to everyone involved except Americans and the butt hurt losers of the Chinese civil war.

Those "invasion barges" are most likely for the eventuality of a US led coup or a US occupation of Taiwan because the Chinese don't need a military invasion to reunify with Taiwan.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Jan 17 2025 18:50 utc | 85

@Posted by: lester | Jan 17 2025 18:43 utc | 81

China is still communist, it just learnt how to utilize markets to drive the productive forces. All of the "commanding heights" are owned by the state - finance, energy, a chunk of high tech (e.g. SMIC), most of the land, the education system etc. Also, corporations are only allowed to operate within very specific limits and any bourgeoisie is kept far away from power. At the same time the markets are kept as competitive as possible, no oligopolies or monopolies allowed unless they are strictly overseen (e.g. the pricing of pharmaceuticals).

Perhaps "socialism with Chinese characteristics" but certainly not capitalism.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Jan 17 2025 18:53 utc | 86

Good post!

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jan 17 2025 18:55 utc | 87

Re mainland China invading Taiwan any day now, read THE SECRET WAR; CHIANG KAI-SHEK AND THE DRUG WARLORDS OF THE GOLDEN TRIANGLE by Richard Michael Gibson and Wen H. China. Taiwan still has this secret army ready to invade mainland China! (Presently they are in Thailand, near Chiang Mai, where Gibson encountered them.)

The leaders in Beijing know history, both Chinese and US and probably have noticed tha warlike barbarian regimes like the Huns, the Mongols and the USA, come and go. They need only wait, not invade Taiwan and dominated it economically. We Americans may well turn on each other soon, although I hope not. If we compete in, eg, countering global warming, space research, etc., everyone will be better off.

Posted by: lester | Jan 17 2025 19:02 utc | 88

In response to
"
Perhaps "socialism with Chinese characteristics" but certainly not capitalism.

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Jan 17 2025 18:53 utc | 86
"

I question your choice of words and projection of them.

China has a mixed economy, just like every other country since Roman times. A mixed economy has public and private inputs....not socialism and capitalism

The last I looked at China, it has over 80% private inputs to the economy. This makes your statement incorrect and, IMO, quite misleading.....I respect and expect better of you.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 17 2025 19:09 utc | 89

The "at what cost?" phrase makes me think of this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOVhz1PllJU

Posted by: Waldorf | Jan 17 2025 19:10 utc | 90

deep learning algorithms leverage complex mathematical frameworks that allow them to extract meaningful insights from seemingly chaotic datasets

Posted by: Assistants | Jan 17 2025 16:12 utc | 51

Add the crushed head of rabbit, two spoons of garlic powder, then speak the abra cadabra! ...

Posted by: persiflo | Jan 17 2025 19:18 utc | 91

In response to
"
Perhaps "socialism with Chinese characteristics" but certainly not capitalism

Posted by: Roger Boyd | Jan 17 2025 18:53 utc | 86
"

I question your choice of words and projection of them.

China has a mixed economy, just like every other country since Roman times. A mixed economy has public and private inputs....not socialism and capitalism

The last I looked at China, it has over 80% private inputs to the economy. This makes your statement incorrect and, IMO, quite misleading.....I respect and expect better of you.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 17 2025 19:09 utc | 89

China took off when in 1978 where they began to have a Socialist/Capitalist Hybrid Model which has been very successful:

"1. The Chinese Economy since the Start of the Reform and Open-door Policy

The reform and open-door policy of China began with the adoption of a new economic development strategy at the Third Plenary Session of the 11th Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party (CCPCC) in late 1978. Under the leadership of Deng Xiaoping, who had returned to the political arena after his three previous defeats, the Chinese government began to pursue an open-door policy, in which it adopted a stance to achieve economic growth through the active introduction of foreign capital and technology while maintaining its commitment to socialism.

The obvious aim of this policy shift was to rebuild its economy and society that were devastated by the Cultural Revolution. The policy shift also appears to have been prompted by recognition that the incomes of ordinary Chinese were so low, in comparison with incomes in other Asian economies, that the future of the Chinese state and the communist regime would be in jeopardy unless something was done to raise living standards of its people through economic growth.

The government subsequently established a number of areas for foreign investment, including the special economic zones, open coastal cities, the economic and technology development zones, the delta open zones, the peninsula open zones, the open border citiees, and the high-tech industry development zones. The establishment of these zones provided the trigger for massive inflows of foreign investment, primarily from companies in Hong Kong and Taiwan. At the same time, China promoted its socialist market economy concept. The changes brought an entrepreneurial boom that resulted in the emergence of huge numbers of entrepreneurs and venture businesses within China.

Inflows of foreign capital, technology, and management knowhow enabled China to turn its vast labor resources and space to rapid economic growth. The shift to an open-door economic policy ushered in a period of high economic growth in the first half of the 1980s. The economy stagnated around the time of the Tiananmen Square Incident in 1989, but in the first half of the 1990s, China was again boasting high growth rates. " (1)

1. https://www.jri.co.jp/english/periodical/rim/1999/RIMe199904threereforms/

Posted by: canuck | Jan 17 2025 19:21 utc | 92

@ persiflo | Jan 17 2025 19:18 utc | 91 with the AI perspective...thanks

AI does what it is told to do, nothing else.

But I really came back to the bar to further rant about the ISM myth. One of the reasons the MoA comments have value is that they generally stay within the boundaries of reality, past, present and future.

But some discussions get into religions and ISM type of myth. I hate both equally and wade in to smite them here as often as I am able. I encourage all barflies to come here and talk about our social reality that is top/bottom, not the myth of left/right. I say the same thing when it comes to finance discussions, we are in a social organization type war over public/private finance and lots of what we see are proxy wars of that.

I expect Trump and team to bend the rules of language and look forward to discussions about the implication and meanings of the political tsunami coming to America.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 17 2025 19:32 utc | 93

That's wittily observed.

In essence MSM should be read as the opposite. As a rule in NYT/Guardian/Fox/..., a country and / or leader who is receiving praise usually handles contrary to the interests of that proper country while serving the interests of the US hegemon. On the other hand a country and / or leader who is receiving scorn is handling in the interests of that country.

"Evil Putin / Putler / whatever" of course is the best example of that just like Orban, Fico, ... while (mis)leaders like Ursula "Lady Pfizer" Von der Leyen who's sinking the EU gets praised.

Samora Machel put it best: "If one day you hear the {hegemon} praise me, know that I have betrayed you".

Posted by: xor | Jan 17 2025 19:37 utc | 94

The USA has an additional 200% debt to GDP in the form of long term federal government obligations - mostly Social Security and Medicare, plus some military pensions and healthcare.

To be clear ... these are promises made to currently working Americans that later in their life, they will be able to draw on these resources ... and yet these obligations don't get officially counted as government debt because they are marked as "off-budget" and theoretically the payment is voluntary, in as much as any future Congress could decide to pay less or maybe even nothing at all.

May I also point out that every Ponzi scheme eventually unwinds, but it's a question of when that happens and who gets ripped off.

Posted by: Tel | Jan 17 2025 19:53 utc | 95

American's successfully killed Ukraine's future but at what cost? American's alienated Saudi Arabia but at what cost?
American's successfully injected 90% of their lower income workers with a toxic experimental bio-weapon - but at what cost?
American's successfully subjugated Europe but at what cost?

I like this game!

Posted by: whocanibenow | Jan 17 2025 20:27 utc | 96

The question really should be: does anyone listen to the Mighty Wurlitzer any more?
Outside the Baby Boomer generation and the PMCs, I actually doubt it.

Posted by: c1ue | Jan 17 2025 20:33 utc | 97

Posted by: canuck | Jan 17 2025 19:21 utc | 92 Wrong.

See https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/chn/china/gdp-gross-domestic-product
As against the source cited, the major takeoff for the PRC came in the early twenty-first century, long after the Reform and Opening Up. This is most easily seen in the bar graph I think. Indeed, the last year for a decrease in GDP was 1976, the year the so-call Gang of Four was condemned. If you observe the line graph showing GDP per capita, there is very little change throughout the Cultural Revolution period and the Deng period of the Reform and Opening Up. It is entirely unclear what economic reason there is for attributing success in raising the people's welfare to the Reform and Opening Up. This is particularly the case if you ignore the smashing of the so-called iron rice bowl, the massive movement from the countryside to cities as Deng's dismantling of communes drove people to the cities to work at plants like Foxconn's, increasing inequality and inflation. There was in fact growth through most of the Cultural Revolution and Reform and Opening Up as practiced by Deng simply was not the miraculous revival of a destroyed nation.

If for some reason you wish to assess growth rates year over year, see https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG?locations=CN
Even the source cited notes what it calls stagnation under Reform and Opening Up. Alert viewers will see Reform and Opening Up has left the PRC vulnerable to shifts in the world economy particularly in response to the so-called Great Financial Crisis and the pandemic. It is in my judgment likely the higher growth rates/absolute growth of GDP was also influenced by events in world economy. Believers in capitalism no doubt will imagine that more capitalism will guarantee the PRC endless growth. Personally I am inclined to believe the declines of the PRC under Reform and Opening Up will increasingly mirror the difficulties of world economy. The possibility that the benefits of Reform and Opening Up are declining along with capitalist world economy is an entirely reasonable concern.

Posted by: steven t johnson | Jan 17 2025 20:34 utc | 98

As usual, B's post says more about the tragic state of current Western "journalism" than it does about China, and how, over time, the more journalism becomes propaganda, the more degraded the propaganda produced becomes as well.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jan 17 2025 20:43 utc | 99

the communism/capitalism question and china...

i think it's an important conversation.. i just finished reading a book 'where does money come from?' with richard werner one of the authors.. he and the group who wrote this book in 2011/2012 seem to suggest ideas in the last chapter that would be more 'socialistic' in nature and in what appears to be chinas approach.. essentially michael hudson discusses the use of speculation, what he calls the fire sector - financial, insurance and real estate, which don't contribute to gdp, but instead help create asset bubbles and bank crisis from time to time, are not in the public's best interests... in the book i have just finished reading a number of great observations are made which support hudsons work and observations.. they come up with ideas on making the system we have much better, although that is not the purpose of the book..

a balance of capitalism and socialism appears to be what china is doing at present... maybe some like to call this communism.. i don't know.. but it appears a hybrid either way and one that works much better for the people... what we have in the west at present, doesn't work for the people.. that is as clear as day..

Posted by: james | Jan 17 2025 20:43 utc | 100