After U.S. ATACMS Strike On Strategic Target Russia Announces To Retaliate
Just five days ago I postulated that the U.S. Has Stopped Ukrainian ATACMS Strikes On Russia.
Today that claim turned out to have been premature:
Status-6 @Archer83Able - 13:24 UTC · Dec 11, 2024The remains of a US-made MGM-140 ATACMS ballistic missile lying on the street in the Russian city of Taganrog following Ukrainian strikes last night.
AFAIK the target was the 325th Aviation Repair Plant located in the vicinity of the Taganrog-Tsentralny Air Base.
Taganrog, on the norther coast of the Azov Sea in the Rostov oblast of Russia, is where the Beriev Aircraft Company is housed. The company is well known for building amphibious flying boat utility planes.
But it is also producing the Beriev 100 airplane which is the Russian version of an airborne early warning and control aircraft system (AWACS). The plant thus has strategic importance.
The Russian Ministry of Defense acknowledged the attack but claimed that it failed (machine translation):
During the investigation, it was reliably established that six American-made ATACMS ballistic missiles were used.Two missiles were shot down by the Pantsir missile defense system, while the rest were rejected by electronic warfare.
As a result of falling fragments of missiles, there are casualties among the personnel. There was no damage, two buildings on the technical territory of the airfield and three units of military vehicles, as well as civilian vehicles in the parking lot adjacent to the airfield were slightly damaged (split by shrapnel).
This attack by Western long-range weapons will not remain unanswered, and appropriate measures will be taken.
Ukraine is unable to use long range ATACMS missiles without the intelligence and targeting information provided by U.S. systems and specialists.
Related to this escalation may be today's warning to Russian citizens to avoid travel to the U.S. and Europe:
Maria Zakharova, a spokeswoman for the Russian foreign ministry, urged citizens on Wednesday to "refrain from trips to the US, Canada and with a few exceptions EU countries" over the Christmas period.She said those that travel were at risk of being "hunted" down by US authorities.
"In the context of the increasing confrontation in Russian-American relations, which are teetering on the verge of rupture due to the fault of Washington, trips to the United States of America privately or out of official necessity are fraught with serious risks," Ms Zakharova said.
The new ATACMS strike comes a day after the Russian president Vladimir Putin again asserted the strategic value of the hypersonic Oreshnik missile:
Once there is a sufficient amount of Oreshnik missiles, Russia will no longer consider the use of nuclear weapons, President Vladimir Putin said, addressing a meeting of the Council on Civil Society and Human Rights."We are improving our nuclear doctrine, not tightening it. Basically, now, we need to improve the Oreshnik missile, not the nuclear doctrine," Putin noted.
"If we take a closer look, a sufficient amount of these cutting-edge weapon systems will actually eliminate the need for the use of nuclear weapons," he explained.
The U.S. at first had hoped that Russia has no other Oreshnik missile than the one which was tested in a strike on the Ukrainian Yushmash missile plant three weeks ago.
That however has since been contradicted:
Following Russia’s first combat use of the Oreshnik intermediate range ballistic missile on November 21, the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ukrainian Defence Ministry publicised an intelligence assessment on Russian industry’s production capacity for the new weapons system. Russia is estimated to be able to produce up to 25 Oreshnik missiles monthly, which equates to production of 300 missiles per year.
After today's (failed) ATACMS attack the U.S. does know what is coming:
Russia may soon target Ukraine with another of its new hypersonic Oreshnik missiles, two US officials said on Wednesday, after Moscow first used one of the weapons in a strike last month.“Russia has signaled its intent to launch another experimental Oreshnik missile at Ukraine, potentially in the coming days,” one official said on condition of anonymity.
The targets of a Russian retaliatory strike will -for now- likely be in Ukraine.
That is why the U.S. officials seem not to be bothered or only a little:
“However, this missile is not a battlefield game-changer but an effort to intimidate Ukraine and its allies. The Oreshnik, with its smaller warhead and limited availability, is unlikely to alter the course of the conflict,” the official said.A second US official likewise downplayed the missile’s potential impact, saying Moscow only has a limited supply.
So Russia is running out of missiles? Since March 2022? When will these idiots ever learn?
The longer the U.S. is doubting the effects of hardened metal darts hitting at MACH 10 and the Oreshnik missile's availability the greater the need for Russia to hit a real U.S. target.
The U.S. controlled intermediate range cruise missile installation in Poland might well be a good one but others may equally qualify.
Posted by b on December 11, 2024 at 18:27 UTC | Permalink
next page »Don't worry. US is right that the retaliation will be confined to some poor Ukie saps because Putin has no man balls to hit US/UK command centers in Ukraine and guarantee most definitely not on US Or UK territory.
Historical fact.
Posted by: Surferket | Dec 11 2024 18:42 utc | 2
All targets in Ukraine do not hold any detterence value for stopping ATACMS attacks on Russia when it comes to NATO.
We have been told ad nadseum how none of the targets have been strategic, the A-50 seems highly strategic.
Will Putin finally make the choice to strike a true NATO asset or are in for yet anothet Russian call threatening action. I place my bets on the latter.
Posted by: silverfoxes | Dec 11 2024 18:47 utc | 3
Again the countermeasure, if it is limited to Ukrainia, is a pointless gesture. The 3LAs/Team-Biden has repeatedly escalated without a commensurate response from the Kremlin. Whatever the truth of the matter, this gets reported to American Citizens as, "Russia is Afraid of our big d!
Russia needs to understand that Americans, for the most part, live behind a thick informational "Iron-Curtain" of propaganda and little measures have no value thanks to the actions of DC/London's 3LA forces. If Russia wants to grab the 3LAs of DC/London's attention:
I'll suggest again, Russia deploy and disperse large numbers of nuclear armaments to Iran...and only after they are fully deployed publicly announce the matter to the world.
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 18:49 utc | 4
“However, this missile is not a battlefield game-changer but an effort to intimidate Ukraine and its allies. The Oreshnik, with its smaller warhead and limited availability, is unlikely to alter the course of the conflict,” the official said.Posted by b on December 11, 2024 at 18:27 UTC | Permalink
Uh-huh, so there should be no problem releasing images of the aftermath of the first Oreshnik strike then, should there?
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 18:50 utc | 5
"Seven countries in five years"
After Syria has fallen, Iran might be in the market for some defense hardware.
Just as the U.S. claims innocence when Ukraine attacks Russia, if North Korea supplies a turnkey nuclear deterrent to Iran in exchange for oil, Russia might claim innocence. "Who, me?"
Posted by: Passerby | Dec 11 2024 18:55 utc | 7
Oh yeah, to comment 4, the Iranians need to announce a "use it or lose it" launch policy because Israel and their goy underlings in DC will surely plot a "surprise-attack" after luring the Iranians into a false sense of security...
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 18:56 utc | 8
Passerby 7,
Why shouldn't the Russians own it? It's important when playing tit 4 tat that the initiator know who they're being slapped back by...no?
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 18:59 utc | 9
Al-Tanf could be a juicy target. The US could hardly claim its sovereign territory had been hit, since it’s not supposed to be there in the first place.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 19:02 utc | 10
Time for Putin to hit a few minor power stations in Ukraine... Russias is experts on cry wolf.
Posted by: Rageman | Dec 11 2024 19:03 utc | 11
Russia will not have peace unless or until it liberates all of the ukraine.
Posted by: Fred777 | Dec 11 2024 19:09 utc | 13
Our host:
The longer the U.S. is doubting the effects of hardened metal darts hitting at MACH 10 and the Oreshnik missile's availability the greater the need for Russia to hit a real U.S. target.
Unfortunately, this is absolutely essential. The leadership in the West is thoroughly convinced that the Russians lack the fortitude and audacity to strike the West. It doesn't even occur to westerners that such a thing is even possible. It would be best for the Russians to dispel that delusion.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 11 2024 19:11 utc | 14
@Passerby | Dec 11 2024 18:55 utc | 7
TAfter Syria has fallen, Iran might be in the market for some defense hardware.Oreshnik, maybe?
— 🇮🇷 🇮🇷 Commander of the IRGC Navy, Commodore Alireza Tangsiri: 'We will soon unveil an extraordinary new drone, which will surprise the world.'
https://t.me/Middle_East_Spectator/13756
'drone'
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 11 2024 19:12 utc | 15
The loss of Syria is a massive defeat for Russia. It is an utter humiliation.
After the latest ATACMS attack on Russia, it has promised to retaliate. So far only words.
Russia must understand that USA wants to do to Russia what it did to Syria.
There is no good reason why Russia hasn't attacked Ukrainian intelligence and command centers or bridges.
Russian oligarchs don't give one fuck about Russia.
I want to remind everyone that Putin praised Kissenger when he died and mocked people who questioned the COVID PSYOP HOAX and reduced the pension eligibility age
The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
USA and Russia are competing mafia ultimately controlled be Zionist banking interests.
Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Dec 11 2024 19:16 utc | 16
If you want to visualize the informational "Iron-Curtain" of propaganda the Anglo-world lays behind read this headline carefully:
"Rebels Carry Out Revenge Killings In Syria"
Breaking that down:
1] "Rebels" is 1984 doublespeak for Foreign-terrorists hired by Ankara/DC/London/Jerusalem isn't it? To be a rebel who has to live-in be-from the country in question not just any guy who like to murder people for money.
2] "Revenge" ? Revenge for what one might ask? For laying down your arms without firing a shot? These people are being summarily executed based on the whim of the 3LA
3] "Killings" You mean state-sponsored-mass-murder based on ethno-relegious criteria...like the Nazis eh?
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 19:17 utc | 17
All sorts of developments today while I work furiously trying to get 4-5 articles posted today. The first two are done--Khamenei's speech and Narishkin's interview, both can be accessed via my moniker's hyperlink.
When Oreshnik is used next, I expect its darts to be armed.
Obviously message from Trump via Orban was unfavorable.
Trump sent his message.
If you all recall, this same thing happened after Trump/Elon call.
(don’t bother with the “Trump wants peace thing) Trump wants capitulation by the time of inauguration. Or at very least “freeze”, and Russia is telling him “no”.
His 24 hour crap.
There are signs, articles everywhere.
Decapitation strike or a NATO member strike coming next.
IMO.
Russia is finished with DC yahoos.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 11 2024 19:20 utc | 19
OT:
❗️🇸🇾 NEW: Former officers and soldiers of the SAA 25th Special Mission Forces Division (Tiger Forces) have gathered themselves in mountainous areas near the Lebanese border, vowing to keep fightinghttps://t.me/Middle_East_Spectator/13758
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 11 2024 19:26 utc | 20
"When Oreshnik is used next, I expect its darts to be armed"
Why would that matter unless they're nuclear explosives? The power of the weapon is it's ability to reach a target unmolested and deliver it's massive kinetic energy over a tiny area.
While not familiar with Hazelnut, I am familiar with the US's kinetic weapons and adding explosives wouldn't change a bleeping thing. The only thing along those lines, in the Ukrainia theater, that would catch the 3LAs ear is Hazelnutting the US's Romanian/Polish missile bases or similar targets OUTSIDE of Ukrainia.
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 19:29 utc | 21
Looking at the map, Taganrog is basically just 150 km away from the current frontline. That's quite close to keep there essential factories, imho. Besides, such a range could already be reached by previous missiles - it's not a target more than 300 km from Ukrainian lines, which is what now could be hit - at least a few times, until ATACMS run out.
Were I Russian leadership, I wouldn't consider this specially red-line-breaking, considering it could've been hit last year if Ukraine was lucky; but since it's still ATACMS hitting Russian ground, I wouldn't be totally surprised if Russia decides to hit back on principle.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Dec 11 2024 19:32 utc | 22
@15 Norwegian
If Turkey joins Israel and the U.S., Iran will be next.
That is a big if, however, as we will see Turkey's strategic plan for the region vis-a-vis their immediate posture towards the Kurds.
But my money is on Turkey and co. pushing the Kurds out of Syria that will draw in the U.S.. Russia will assist Turkey when the U.S. becomes more involved. When this happens, Israel and Iran/Iraq will just look up at the sky and whistle, not taking any sides.
The deal has been made. Turkey will be the administrator in the region.
If they could just get the headchoppers under control, I would say Turkey ruling would be a good thing. But until I see proof that the headchoppers desire a peaceful caliphate, I will reserve judgement.
There is also the role of seasoned Ukrainian fighters assisting Turkey and co. for which I am truly puzzled as to making a guess about how their assistance will be rewarded here.
It's a confusing situation.
But I would bank on Turkey not joining Israel/U.S. in their desire for toppling Iran.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 11 2024 19:33 utc | 23
So basically, it has taken Russia nearly 3 years to work out that NATO and esp the USA will continue escalating, knowing that while Russia is the target, retaliation is always contained to the eminently expendable Ukraine.
Putin's reluctance to retaliate on mainland Europe and USA has resulted in the death of many thousands of Russians and the war to continue much longer than perhaps necessary. Either that, or it has saved humanity from nuclear war. Ultimately, the only response that will affect NATO's decision making is one which hits them directly and deters them definitively.
Was this 3 year delay due to an excess of prudence, or dictated by the development of weapons such as the Hazel, required to be in sufficient numbers to ensure Russia's conventional escalation dominance beyond any reasonable doubt?
Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 11 2024 19:34 utc | 24
Putin has to go. Syria gone, Iran looks weaker than weak and abandoned its proxies, it has cowered to Isreal. Russia is at top of heap and protecting no one. What country or group will ever trust an alliance with Russia at this point. Even Turkey laughed at Russia and I bet Russia still lets in Brics. All the while Putin is b*tched slapped again and again with Kiev living large and trains on time. With no fears.
The Putin apologists always say the big hit is coming, same for Iran, just wait, it will be decisive……but it never comes. Ever. More attacks on Russia proper and Putin still dreams of EU elite circle jerks in Paris.
Posted by: Charles M. | Dec 11 2024 19:35 utc | 25
@Charles M. | Dec 11 2024 19:35 utc | 25
'Assad must go' => 'Putin must go' => 'Xi must go' => ..
US American 'diplomacy'.
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 11 2024 19:44 utc | 26
Charles M. 25,
While not as adamant as you, one thing is for sure, Putin's "restraint" has cost Russia a lot of lives and it has endangered the world. By convincing the nutjobs in DC/London/Jerusalem/Ankara that their escalations carry no risk. It will take a lot of violence to put that genie back in the bottle.
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 19:45 utc | 27
It's not about the toys. The neverending Patriot-battery saga and many other data points all but prove that at this point, not just Ukraine's but all of Europe's air defense has been severely depleted. They don't seem to care that much, because they know that in NATO, they don't face a significant military threat--apart from Biden blowing up their pipelines. X-101, Kalibr, and any number of other Russian platform have the range, accuracy, and payload to do real damage to any number of targets in NATO. Hell, I seriously doubt the US could repel a salvo of 20 cheap Geran-II's flying noisily and slowly towards Rzeszow. So what? It won't happen.
HTS--well let's not carry this too far since those guys are heavily armed, but they didn't wait for SU-75, S-550, or Armata before toppling the Syrian state. The IAF is technologically advanced, but they didn't need any Wunderwaffen to completely upend the power balance in Syria over 48h--just solid intel, ruthlessness, and an organization nimble enough to exploit the available opening. That's how you exert power folks.
Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Dec 11 2024 19:47 utc | 28
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 18:59 utc | 9
Only an Galician would want that.
Posted by: Passerby | Dec 11 2024 19:52 utc | 29
All sorts of developments today while I work furiously trying to get 4-5 articles posted today. The first two are done--Khamenei's speech and Narishkin's interview, both can be accessed via my moniker's hyperlink.
When Oreshnik is used next, I expect its darts to be armed.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 11 2024 19:18 utc | 18
Thanks karlof1, your and b´s work is irreplaceable.
I can´t help beeing scared now. How will Russia respond, and in addition, how will the US respond on that, the US-imperialism is terribly dangerous and unpredictable.
Posted by: Northern Eve | Dec 11 2024 19:52 utc | 30
@Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 19:02 utc | 10
>>Al-Tanf could be a juicy target.
A neat idea coming eight years too late...
Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Dec 11 2024 19:55 utc | 31
Guess it took awhile to stockpile some more ATCMS. IMHO opinion, there will be another strike or two until they have to restock. As others have said, I don't think that Russia will strike outside of Ukraine. I will bet there are some neocons who are hoping that Russia will strike outside of Ukraine, as a parting gift from the Biden bozos. But i do hope that Russia strikes back hard, at multiple targets.
Posted by: ctiger | Dec 11 2024 19:56 utc | 32
There is no good reason why Russia hasn't attacked Ukrainian intelligence and command centers or bridges.
Posted by: Anton Gorbatow
Agreed, totally. Perhaps this is the end of incrementalism once called special? The losses on both sides are sickening, the families affected in the hundreds of thousands which means millions of good people. Russia's worst war.
Posted by: elmagnostic | Dec 11 2024 19:56 utc | 33
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 19:45 utc | 27
Try asking yourself how many millions of Russian, Ukrainian, European and US lives would have been lost had Russia gone for a US-style “shock and awe” approach, instead of an SMO?
Too much Western thinking is still clouded by the US Iraqi operations. seeing these as the be all and end all of how to conduct military operations, saying nothing about Tables of Operation & Equipment, or Correlation of Forces & Means.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 19:57 utc | 34
Quite revealing in its own way that Putin is completely absent from the media in the context of the Syrian disaster. I mean, after the repeated declarations on multi-polarity, his publicized support for Syria and the contemptuous statement on "the end of the vampire ball", one would expect him to make some statement. Obviously, the current developmenmts in the ME are indeed perceived as the defeat the constitute, as they involve the backstab from Erdogan whom he treated as a partner.
One can further recall the sense of loss for those who perished defending Syria against the west-backed jihadist onslaught,
whose sacrifice has been in vain. This reality has its own impact in Russia.
All this exposes the need for resolute action in Ukraine, without any more of the worthless bluster we've been subjected for some time. As the use of the western missile systems constitutes effectively a NATO attack on Russia, the call for retaliation against Ukraine - that is, where there is ostensibly a desire to avoid unnecessary destruction - seems redundant, to put it mildly.
As b accurately pointed, as long as the Anglo-American decision makers have no fear of consequences, even indirect, they will not be discouraged by pointless threats against the Maidanist neo-Nazi regime.
Posted by: Constantine | Dec 11 2024 19:57 utc | 35
Is it just me or does it seem like Blinken and the collective Biden are doing everything possible to sink the Trump administration in as many military quagmires as humanly possible in the next 45d or so?
In the last few weeks, the collective Biden has been more provocative than they had been prior to November.
I know Trump is unlikely to significantly change the direction of foreign policy, but maybe their fear he may be telling the truth about ending Ukraine is driving them?
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 11 2024 20:01 utc | 36
Don't worry. US is right that the retaliation will be confined to some poor Ukie saps because Putin has no man balls to hit US/UK command centers in Ukraine and guarantee most definitely not on US Or UK territory.
Historical fact.
Posted by: Surferket | Dec 11 2024 18:42 utc | 2
You're a fucking moron. I really hope you at least get paid to be this retarded.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 11 2024 20:03 utc | 37
As b accurately pointed, as long as the Anglo-American decision makers have no fear of consequences, even indirect, they will not be discouraged by pointless threats against the Maidanist neo-Nazi regime.
Posted by: Constantine | Dec 11 2024 19:57 utc | 35
Putin is a nationalist that is more cooperative than US imperialism. He's not leading an international revolution.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 11 2024 20:05 utc | 38
Russia will not have peace unless or until it liberates all of the ukraine.Posted by: Fred777 | Dec 11 2024 19:09 utc | 13
Not even then. The current global struggle is of the "Last Man Standing" scenario. Old ideologies and religions are not relevant. The contest is over who controls what is left of global resources (less than half). The winners will have electricity, running water, energy to run farms and factories, and modern medicine for a few more generations. The losers will be poor, lacking industry and collapse internally.
Russia will not have peace until all of her enemies are demilitarised.
Posted by: Drifter | Dec 11 2024 20:05 utc | 39
I will bet there are some neocons who are hoping that Russia will strike outside of Ukraine, as a parting gift from the Biden bozos.
Posted by: ctiger | Dec 11 2024 19:56 utc | 32
That really seems to be the case. They want an international incident.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 11 2024 20:06 utc | 40
Watch out for S Brennan and Charles M. They, like US imperialism, want a nuclear war. Handle these two ding dongs at your own risk, good people.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 11 2024 20:11 utc | 41
@Charles M. | Dec 11 2024 19:35 utc | 25
>>The Putin apologists always say the big hit is coming, same for Iran, just wait, it will be decisive……but it never comes. Ever.
I have triggered multiple Putin apologists just since last weekend, so maybe I can speak from experience. There is a change: invective is harsher; thresholds lower; nerves getting frayed. But it's the apologists who change; at 72, VVP seems to be settled in his ways. An exception was the Prigozhine mutiny, which threatened his own position--at least indirectly. There he rose to the occasion, and he didn't need at all to match Mr. Wagner's craziness: just don't hide behind your flunkies, a clear denunciation--and be quick about it. Other crises, YMMV.
---------------------------
@HughG | Dec 11 2024 17:40 utc | 432 (from old thread)
>>West obviously doesn’t care because Ukraine will get the hit.
In The Prince and the Pauper, wasn't there a character "the Receiver of Royal Beatings", who'd get the punishment whenever the Prince had fucked up? Seems like Ukistan volunteered for the job. Since multiple barflies pride themselves over all the books they've read, maybe someone can enlighten us. For myself, it's a lifetime ago since I read it; only just now I learned that it's not Dickens.
Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Dec 11 2024 20:11 utc | 42
🇷🇺💥🇺🇦 Russia may launch another "Oreshnik" missile strike on Ukrainian territory in the coming days, but I don’t have a specific date — Pentagon spokesperson Sabrina Singh.https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/133219
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 11 2024 20:11 utc | 43
Russia has advised all Russians to leave USA.
Posted by: g wiltek | Dec 11 2024 18:54 utc | 6
______
Untrue. Probably not a bad idea though.
Posted by: malenkov | Dec 11 2024 20:14 utc | 44
Putin must be replaced with the real leader of the axis of resistance.
Somebody like Igor Strelkow.
I am sure, Russia is not going to retaliate. Never.
Even if it would be a nuclear attack Russia wont retaliate. It is just a lesser value complex. They adore and dream about the holy West. Nothing can be done about it.
Posted by: vargas | Dec 11 2024 20:15 utc | 45
"...confined to some poor Ukie saps because Putin has no man balls to hit US/UK command centers in Ukraine and guarantee most definitely not on US Or UK territory.
Historical fact."
Posted by: Surferket | Dec 11 2024 18:42 utc | 2
Alrighty, I have no argument with that. Perhaps you could answer for me the last time that Russia told all its citizens to leave Europe and the United States. Oh and that shithole Country Canada.
Posted by: David G Horsman | Dec 11 2024 20:16 utc | 46
'drone'
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 11 2024 19:12 utc | 15
Ooooooo. Nice catch.
Define drone.....
Posted by: David G Horsman | Dec 11 2024 20:19 utc | 47
I see that a coach party of 'Putin must go, Russia must start WW3' trolls has colonized the bar.
Americans, I guess from the loud braying. May I, as someone who doesn't live thousands of miles from the action, point out that - our elites apart - no-one in Europe is very keen on WW3, and respectfully request that it be held in the United States instead. Thank you.
Posted by: Red Star | Dec 11 2024 20:22 utc | 48
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 11 2024 20:11 utc | 41
There’s a few others I’d add to the “ding dong” list, such as @ANON2022/shadowbanned, who seems to have a bizarre fetish about nuclear war.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 20:25 utc | 49
This latest ATACMS strike seems to be designed as a poison pill to get the Russians to react, it doesn't help Putin as his biggest fear is "escalation" and yet the Russian MOD/Military is expecting a response and the response is going to be tinged by Syria.
No doubt within the Kremlin there is already a battle in terms of defining this strike as "not crossing any red lines" as we see some already in the comments doing so and laying the groundwork for a non response/small/weak response.
This whole mess is going to be very hard to resolve unless Putin backs off the original SMO goals/redefines as the goals just can't be accomplished without a direct confrontation with the West and calling their bluff on "escalations".
Posted by: silverfoxes | Dec 11 2024 20:25 utc | 50
Posted by: Red Star | Dec 11 2024 20:22 utc | 48
Hear, hear to that! In fact, we shouldn’t be greedy, after all the first two world wars were largely fought here; share and share alike, let everyone take their turn...
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 20:28 utc | 51
"(...) like US imperialism, want a nuclear war (...)
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 11 2024 20:11 utc | 41
Excatly,it is very very scary. That Russia has such wise leaders still gives hope.
Posted by: Northern Eve | Dec 11 2024 20:28 utc | 52
https://rumble.com/v5y9zcz-judgingfreedom.html?e9s=src_v1_ucp
judge and Mc Gregor, 24:40 Russians advised to leave USA
Posted by: g wiltek | Dec 11 2024 20:29 utc | 53
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 19:57 utc | 34
Too much Western thinking is still clouded by the US Iraqi operations. seeing these as the be all and end all of how to conduct military operations...
---
Agree. Talk of striking NATO or al-Tanf (for which they would retaliate harshly, claiming it to be sovereign territory) is armchair quarterbacking. They need to continue striking inside Ukraine until Zelensky is removed by his own people.
Posted by: freedom fritos | Dec 11 2024 20:32 utc | 54
Al-Tanf could be a juicy target. The US could hardly claim its sovereign territory had been hit, since it’s not supposed to be there in the first place.Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 19:02 utc | 10
Good idea. Hit Uncle Sam where he is stealing the oil (or has been, during Assad's time). Such a strike would perpetuate the memory of the illegal US presence there and the theft of Syrian oil.
Even better: wait for a deeper strike into Russia. Then perhaps, January 20th can be reached without escalation.
Posted by: grunzt | Dec 11 2024 20:38 utc | 55
@Norwegian | Dec 11 2024 19:12 utc | 15
Crazy stuff
🇺🇸 🇮🇷 Congressman Jeff Van Drew: 'One month ago, Iran launched a mothership near the U.S. East Coast, from where Iranian military drones have been entering U.S. airspace, including New Jersey, to monitor residences of the President & American military movements. These drones should be shot down. The U.S. military is on full alert regarding this.'https://t.me/ResistanceTrench/36857
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 11 2024 20:38 utc | 56
To be clear, Russia is not at war with proxy Ukraine. Russia is at war with NATO + S. Korea, Japan, and Australia aka 'the combined west'. The adversary is mentally ill, desperate, and armed with thousands of nuclear weapons. It is best to allow the west to imagine it is winning.
The task of VVP is to hold the line on the ground until the RF aerospace industry has produced enough non-nuclear hypersonic missile weapons and strategic weapons to attack submarines. In the end, the RF will have to do a non-nuclear missile strike on the land based strategic arsenal of the west, while also destroying the enemy's strategic naval assets. Nothing less will produce a lasting peace.
Considering just a single Ohio class sub can launch 24 Trident ICBMs, each missile carrying 8 - 14 nuclear armed MIRVs, the need for the knockout to be complete is obvious. Even S-400 can't stop all of the warheads. Among other things, that is what the Poseidon 2M39 nuclear torpedo/drone is for. The pieces for winning WW3 in 20 minutes without using atmospheric nuclear weapons are being assembled. The job of VVP is to buy time.
Posted by: Drifter | Dec 11 2024 20:38 utc | 57
...Russia told all its citizens to leave Europe and the United States. Oh and that shithole Country Canada.
Posted by: David G Horsman | Dec 11 2024 20:16 utc | 46
Not as far as I read, in fact Russia just advised not to travel to these countries, the reason given is "risk being harassed or wrongly arrested"
Posted by: Tak-Tik | Dec 11 2024 20:39 utc | 58
I see many arm chair generals here who know exactly how to rule the world. Fascinating.
Posted by: Hes | Dec 11 2024 20:39 utc | 59
As I have been saying. Putin is doing his job. Which is to do nothing. The SMO continues...
Did you notice how Israel is not striking "repair facilities" and "factories" in Syria? That is because countries like Ukraine and Syria do not have such things. Russia repeatedly hits empty buildings. It has been a joke since day one for the Ukrainian freaks. Sometimes you need to listen to them. They are mocking Russia for good reason.
Russia cannot lock down Ukraine but Israel can lock down the massive country of Syria? Syrian borders are wildly rugged. Great for smuggling. They are taken care of now by Israel. There are no mountains on the Polish/Ukrainian border.
Even money on whether Putin commits suicide in 2025 or not. Would make sense. His legacy is utterly destroyed. The world would rejoice if he did. That includes the grifters who would use it as fuel for more wacky conspiracies.
Posted by: Kaker | Dec 11 2024 20:41 utc | 60
silverfoxes @50: "This whole mess is going to be very hard to resolve unless Putin backs off the original SMO goals/redefines as the goals just can't be accomplished without a direct confrontation with the West..."
Just because Russia doesn't strike back doesn't mean NATO isn't already in direct combat with Russia. ATACMS, stormshaddow, etc are all direct attacks by the US/NATO against Russia. Failing to defend oneself in a fight doesn't mean the fight isn't happening.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 11 2024 20:44 utc | 61
"Don't worry. US is right that the retaliation will be confined to some poor Ukie saps because Putin has no man balls to hit US/UK command centers in Ukraine and guarantee most definitely not on US Or UK territory.
Historical fact."
Posted by: Surferket | Dec 11 2024 18:42 utc | 2
"You're a fucking moron. I really hope you at least get paid to be this retarded."
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 11 2024 20:03 utc | 37
Sureferket certainly deserves that recognition-calling future events an, 'historical fact', accentuates and confirms your apt description.
@Constantine | Dec 11 2024 19:57 utc | 35
>>Quite revealing in its own way that Putin is completely absent from the media in the context of the Syrian disaster.
Someone gets it. Let's give it to VVP, he lasted this long by having a keen radar for political risk to himself, and saying "What do I pay all these flunkies for, let them handle it." And then crawl under the bed ehmmm I mean run off to Azerbaijan to talk about investment deals, as if that has anything to do with anything. [Then A. Mercouris will say "Putin looked relaxed and confident." :-)] But to the extent that I understand "power vertical", the buck's supposed to stop with him: the flunkies all have their own ideas, and nobody knows what the policy is. Proven recipe for turning a setback into a catastrophe. See also
https://johnhelmer.org/the-russian-general-staff-kremlin-discuss-holding-the-latakia-sanjak-to-defend-bases-agree-to-withdraw-under-turkish-safe-passage/#more-71659
-------------------
@vargas | Dec 11 2024 20:15 utc | 45
>>Somebody like Igor Strelkow.
Spelling it like that makes you a German? What does it matter I guess. Anyway, more ways than one to be a clown. Sane people have explained that Russia has no way to train/equip/supply the 3 million army he demands, or was it 5 mln this week. Also, since Russia is thinly populated, such a number of young men cannot really be missed in the civilian economy, at least before things become truly existential. But the "economy" which animates Strelkov most may be the clicks and donations on his site, so the hyperpatriots [aka schizopatriots :-)] don't tend to engage arguments coming from the real world. Much like the Washington neocons when you think about it.
Look, the whole problem is that for whatever psychological twist, most Russians seem to have no concept of middle ground. They can only imagine either hiding under the bed, or nuke armageddon. But if you down a couple RQ-4 Global Hawks, cut off the gas to Europe, whack a three-star, anything, then you convey your displeasure in a way that counts. Maybe best expressed in Washingtonese: "impose costs on your adversaries." If you really believe the Dark Throne became top dog by merely being stupid, you may miss the chance to learn from them.
Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Dec 11 2024 20:52 utc | 63
I see the "damnit, we're trying to start a war here and blame it on Russia, but they won't cooperate!" trolls are out in force today!
Posted by: The Owl | Dec 11 2024 20:54 utc | 64
The west and all corrupt leaders will continue to push for world war, needing to reshape the world entirely by spring of 2029. Leaders not subservient to evil need to do all they can to prevent such attempts.
Posted by: NJH | Dec 11 2024 20:54 utc | 65
I predict that Russia will hazelnut a target inside Ukraine within 10 days.
Does anyone predict that Russia will hit a target outside Ukraine?
Or will Russia not retaliate?
Will it do something else or nothing at all?
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Dec 11 2024 20:54 utc | 66
I see that a coach party of 'Putin must go, Russia must start WW3' trolls has colonized the bar.Posted by: Red Star | Dec 11 2024 20:22 utc | 48
Whoops! Red Star beat me to it! :-)
Posted by: The Owl | Dec 11 2024 20:57 utc | 67
Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Dec 11 2024 20:52 utc | 63
Costs are already being imposed...
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 20:57 utc | 68
"Try asking yourself how many millions of Russian, Ukrainian, European and US lives would have been lost had Russia gone for a US-style “shock and awe” approach, instead of an SMO?" - Jeremy Rhymings-Lang 34
I am not sure binary thinking is the only way to address the problem. The 3LAs of DC/London/Ankara/Jerusalem continually hit Russian/non-neocolonialist interests precisely because there is no corresponding response from Russia except, so far, empty threats. And so the shit-show continues slowly poisoning the position of those who know better and want it to stop. The neo-colonialist rightfully ask; "why should we stop when our provocations elicit no meaningful response" ?
Try asking yourself; when's the last time you saw bullying behavior stop by having the victim appeal to the bully's moral sensibilities?
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 20:59 utc | 69
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 20:59 utc | 69
Nice backpedal...
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 21:03 utc | 70
judge and Mc Gregor, 24:40 Russians advised to leave USA
Posted by: g wiltek | Dec 11 2024 20:29 utc | 53
________
Macgregor was incorrectly citing Zakharova. b cites correctly in the initial story above.
Posted by: malenkov | Dec 11 2024 21:03 utc | 71
In the simplest terms, a bully only understands a solid punch in the nose.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Dec 11 2024 21:04 utc | 72
I haven't read it suggested yet that the next target should be somewhere that the results can't be hidden from the public....so there is a better understanding of the potential capabilities
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 11 2024 21:04 utc | 73
Russia will not have peace unless or until it liberates all of the ukraine.
Posted by: Fred777 | Dec 11 2024 19:09 utc | 13
################
They don't want all of Ukraine. I imagine they want to, at worst, do what they did with Syria. Leave behind the refugees and Nazis and make it all Europe's problem.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 11 2024 21:05 utc | 74
Six ATACMS ballistic missiles all neutralised with little damage. Yet some people seem all doom and gloom.
One Oreshnik missile with six packages of multiple warheads, so enabling thirty-six separate weapons to be landed from high altitude with extreme accuracy and even with a small yield can destroy an airbase as thoroughly as a twenty-kiloton nuclear weapon.
Missiles that can’t be shot down by NATO. Missiles that are accurate to 10m to 20m
What does NATO have that’s comparable? Nothing
Posted by: HughG | Dec 11 2024 21:07 utc | 75
Agree with
- William Gruff 61
"Just because Russia doesn't strike back doesn't mean NATO isn't already in direct combat with Russia...Failing to defend oneself in a fight doesn't mean the fight isn't happening.
- Ma Laoshi 63
"most Russians [and many commenters here] seem to have no concept of middle ground. They can only imagine either hiding under the bed, or nuke armageddon"
It's not a binary solution set...the longer Russia waits the greater the violence required.
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 21:08 utc | 76
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 11 2024 21:05 utc | 74
I like it, not just one, but two steaming nests of angry snakes for the West to try and deal with, propagandise and justify.
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 21:09 utc | 77
NATO is totally defenseless when it comes to missiles like Oreshnik and they know it.
Posted by: HughG | Dec 11 2024 21:10 utc | 78
69 - Boardwalk Empire - When appeals to bullies don't work, a gat in the hand does...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66Kwh5OVNvM
Posted by: Waldorf | Dec 11 2024 21:11 utc | 79
Anyone with an untreated or untreatable phobia for dogs or anything else should not be running a country.
In fact, anyone who has ever suffered from a phobia or similar obsessive-compulsive condition should not be allowed anywhere near politics.
Such people are not in control of their mental and emotional states.
IMO Merkel just revealed a great deal about herself---and her rein in Germany.
Posted by: Jane | Dec 11 2024 21:11 utc | 80
@William Gruff | Dec 11 2024 20:44 utc | 61
>>Failing to defend oneself in a fight doesn't mean the fight isn't happening.
Bingo. Avoiding escalation is a noble goal; but at some point, "escalation management" became "allowing unlimited escalation." Anyway, so many on that side feel pretty good about how smart Moscow played the Long Game(TM) in Syria. If they wish to have another such success by "not taking the bait" in Donbass, then whatever makes them feel good. Just a small heads-up: for people like Kevork's family now forced to flee Aleppo, this was never a game. Might want to think about scoring such a success in your own country.
Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Dec 11 2024 21:12 utc | 81
The US doesn't give a darn about the indigenous people of any nation. Not even its own.
Russia would take on the Ukrainian people and support them.
I think Russia would like to avoid that.
By the same token, the theft of arable land of Ukraine by Blackrock, Cargill, Monsanto can not be tolerated in any case.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Dec 11 2024 21:13 utc | 82
Russia will not have peace unless or until it liberates all of the ukraine.
Posted by: Fred777 | Dec 11 2024 19:09 utc | 13
################
They don't want all of Ukraine. I imagine they want to, at worst, do what they did with Syria. Leave behind the refugees and Nazis and make it all Europe's problem.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 11 2024 21:05 utc | 74
___________
Russia can liberate all of 404 without subsequentlybhaving to keep all of it. Protectorate with military occupation of the Galician part, for instance.
Posted by: malenkov | Dec 11 2024 21:14 utc | 83
Is there something related to the ineffectiveness of Ukrainian strikes with US-made missiles when the Kremlin considers "mirror-like responses"? *chuckle*
I ought to wonder which part of "de-nazification" doesn't involve committing a justified genocide, and why it doesn't start from the head of the state (viper?..), but from the common man made soldier by forced conscription.
I also ought to wonder where did all the knowledge of past history go when seeking moral leadership. There are either strong or moral ones, rarely both, commonly neither.
Westerners don't care for morality, Easterners don't care for strength. North Korea is a strange case, but not a positive.
But, who cares, there's a need for comfort, and statements like these don't provide any, quite the contrary..
I don't recall hearing about BRICS being anything more than a justified bypass of the US banking/trade/exchange system, but alas, here we are. More fantasies, less truth.
Posted by: Arctaroll | Dec 11 2024 21:14 utc | 84
Re Gruff "Unfortunately, this is absolutely essential. The leadership in the West is thoroughly convinced that the Russians lack the fortitude and audacity to strike the West. It doesn't even occur to westerners that such a thing is even possible. It would be best for the Russians to dispel that delusion. "
I agree.
Posted by: Jane | Dec 11 2024 21:16 utc | 85
I’m thinking about registering the domain name postcardsfromyuzhmash.com but unfortunately I’m lacking source material...
Posted by: Jeremy Rhymings-Lang | Dec 11 2024 21:17 utc | 86
S-400 can't stop all of the warheads.
Posted by: Drifter | Dec 11 2024 20:38 utc | 57
No and at their current level of quality, where 6-8 missiles is all needed to hit the target and planes fly many times before being hit, they will get nuked by free falling bombs as well.
Perhaps you could answer for me the last time that Russia told all its citizens to leave Europe and the United States.
Posted by: David G Horsman | Dec 11 2024 20:16 utc | 46
You invent stories, better read the original text. And they've been saying it since US started to arrest Russians in foreign countries, long time ago. Life with no army and no money is hard
Posted by: rk | Dec 11 2024 21:17 utc | 87
- Chaka Khagan 72
"In the simplest terms, a bully only understands a solid punch in the nose"
Or...as my father said to me when I was young and went shooting with him and I paraphrase because I believe what he said was pithier than I relate:
"with some men..they can only understand one thing..a well placed shot and then suddenly..they become reasonable"
I have never seen that phrase disproven. Erdogan will understand only one thing, so too Netanyahu, Blinken, Sullivan at al.
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 21:17 utc | 88
"The U.S. controlled intermediate range cruise missile installation in Poland might well be a good one..."
hear hear. I would second that opinion
I do wonder how the Nato guys can be so ignorant, aggressive and arrogant in their behavior, when they know that they have nothing that can interdict such missiles as Russia has its ts arsenal.
I have to suppose that it is the hubris and the pride that blind these policy makers and 'deciders'
Posted by: michaelj72 | Dec 11 2024 21:19 utc | 89
Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 11 2024 19:34 utc | 24
Was this 3 year delay due to an excess of prudence…One of the stated goals of the SMO was to demilitarise 404, and that is not done overnight if one is not willing to turn it into a parking lot with no regard for the non-combatant populace.
… or dictated by the development of weapons such as the Hazel, required to be in sufficient numbers to ensure Russia's conventional escalation dominance beyond any reasonable doubt?Why tool up for industrial-scale warfare in haste, when you can take your time and test new weaponry at the same time? The SMO has been a learning opportunity for the AFRF to better prepare for the bigger enemy at the gates, while disarming them at the same time. NATO and the US have a long, hard slog in front of them if they decide to go kinetic.
Posted by: Cato the Uncensored | Dec 11 2024 21:20 utc | 91
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 11 2024 21:04 utc | 73
I haven't read it suggested yet that the next target should be somewhere that the results can't be hidden from the public....so there is a better understanding of the potential capabilities.
---
Go on, we're listening...
Posted by: freedom fritos | Dec 11 2024 21:21 utc | 92
A man is hard pressed to stop his eyes from watering and the resultant vision loss from a forceful punch to the nose.
And even if the punch isn't square, it usually debilitates the opponent.
A fecking wake up call is thereby effected.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Dec 11 2024 21:24 utc | 93
PS.: Not sure which part of 'target the head of the viper first' suggests a nuclear armageddon or a snail-paced mutual genocide; but, alas, this is a war between blindness and ignorance and I wish I had nothing to do with it.
Posted by: Arctaroll | Dec 11 2024 21:25 utc | 94
Agree Jane at 80,
While noting that Germany's "leadership" is slouching it's way to perdition's abyss...
Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 11 2024 21:26 utc | 95
According to Dima (Military Summary) the attack on Taganrok was a failed attack on Rostov on Don. A thwarted attempt to kill a senior leader such as Gerassimov.
Also of note is that Russia apparently now is making 300 or so Oreshnik missiles per year. A little under one per day. The silence of the hazel flowers will soon end.
Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Dec 11 2024 21:28 utc | 96
Someone posted here some time ago that Russia only has two heavy rotary forges for making artillery barrels, and these forges were not made in Russia and thus could not be soon replaced were anything to happen to them. These are the kinds of production choke points that are prime targets as the US/NATO ramps up their "deep strikes" campaign.
Fortunately for NATO, they can destroy critical assets like that without fear of Russian retaliation; meanwhile, Russia cannot even strike an illegal terrorist base like al Tanf without fear of unacceptable reprisals. Precedents have been set in both cases, after all.
Oh well, the real fight will be between the Empire and China anyway, so if Russia can hold on for anther year or so, then that may be enough.
Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 11 2024 21:28 utc | 97
In response to
"
Go on, we're listening...
Posted by: freedom fritos | Dec 11 2024 21:21 utc | 94
"
Kiev or another city with a NATO facility/bunker or take out an airport as folks are saying this weapon can do.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 11 2024 21:29 utc | 98
Posted by: silverfoxes | Dec 11 2024 18:47 utc | 3
I wouldn't be so sure about that. There are lots of Western aid groups in Western Ukriane. Probably some of them are fronts for CIA/MI6 agents and other spooks. Turning them into rubble would get the attention of the Beltway crew.
Then there are targets like the US Embassy, and the British Embassy, along with any remaining port infrastructure along the Black Sea that hasn't already been effectively destroyed such that it reduces Ukraine's shrinking GDP further. Every dollar of GDP the west has to print to send to Ukraine hastens the demise of the western financial system.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 11 2024 21:32 utc | 99
“💥🇺🇦 Russia may launch another "Oreshnik" missile strike on Ukrainian “
It may be that US/NATO wants Russia to launch another Oreshnik missile, or missiles. I recall they were investigating to find parts and data capturing. The report suggested they were unable to retrieve at that site anything useful.
If Russia strikes back, as it will, it might as well use its other long range, or hypersonic missiles instead. The test is done.
Putin stated they’re currently stock piling & producing. I imagine they are costly and no need to waste any more of them in Ukraine.
https://tass.com/politics/1885299
MOSCOW, December 10. /TASS/.
Once there is a **sufficient amount** of Oreshnik missiles, Russia will no longer consider the use of nuclear weapons, President Vladimir Putin said, addressing a meeting of the Council on Civil Society and Human Rights.
"We are improving our nuclear doctrine, not tightening it. Basically, now, **we need to improve the Oreshnik missile,** not the nuclear doctrine," Putin noted.
Guessing they will “improve” them for many times more than the current 36.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 11 2024 21:33 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
"The longer the U.S. is doubting the effects of hardened metal darts hitting at MACH 10 and the Oreshnik missile's availability the greater the need for Russia to hit a real U.S. target."
Bingo. But let's just say that after losing Syria, Russia would be incredibly desperate to hit America directly. There is no shortage of client states to target first, and they might even be able to wait for January.
Posted by: They Call Me Mister | Dec 11 2024 18:36 utc | 1